STATE OF FLORIDA DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS CASE NOS. 92-3038 92-3039 SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE 92-3040 OF FLORIDA, a Florida agricultural cooperative marketing association, ROTH FARMS, INC., and WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC., -and- FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC., and UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION, -and- FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE ASSOCIATION, LEWIS POPE FARMS, W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., Petitioners, vs. VOLUME II SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT Pages 150 through 235 DISTRICT, an agency of the State of Florida, Respondent, MICCOSUKEE TRIBE OF INDIANS OF FLORIDA, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and the FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, the FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION, the FLORIDA AUDUBON SOCIETY, and the SIERRA CLUB, Intervenors. _______________________________/ DEPOSITION OF: EARL SHANNON, Ph.D. TAKEN AT THE INSTANCE OF Attorneys for United States DATE: March 4, 1994 TIME: Commenced at 9:00 a.m. Concluded at 2:00 p.m. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 100 Salem Court Tallahassee, Florida 32301 (904) 878-2221 (800) 934-9090 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 151 LOCATION: 315 South Calhoun Street 4th Floor Tallahassee, Florida REPORTED BY: Carolyn L. Rankine Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large * * * APPEARANCES: REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS SUGAR, ROTH & WEDGWORTH: GARY PERKO, ESQUIRE Hopping Boyd Green & Sams 123 South Calhoun Street Tallahassee, Florida 32301 REPRESENTING THE INTERVENOR UNITED STATES: SUZAN H. PONZOLI, ESQUIRE, and LISA HOGAN, ESQUIRE Assistant United States Attorneys Southern District of Florida 99 Northeast 4th Street, 3rd Floor Miami, Florida 33132 REPRESENTING THE INTERVENOR DEP: DONNA LAPLANTE, ESQUIRE, and ED STEINMEYER, ESQUIRE 2600 Blair Stone Road Tallahassee, Florida 32399-2400 ALSO PRESENT: RONALD D. JONES, Ph.D. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 152 I N D E X WITNESS PAGE EARL SHANNON, Ph.D. Continued Direct Examination by Ms. Ponzoli 153 CERTIFICATE OF ADMINISTERING OATH 233 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 234 EXHIBITS: Number 10 Everglades Viewpoint 153 11 Memo dated December 16, 1993 168 12 Memo dated July 19, 1993 181 13 Memo dated July 6, 1993 181 14 FAX order form - July 8, 1993 181 15 Memo dated November 18, 1993 189 16 Memo dated May 3, 1993 189 17 EBM data (Jan. 1 - Dec. 27/93) 189 18 Curriculum vitae of Earl Shannon 189 19 43 Photos (composite) 194 (Photos retained by counsel for petitioners) 20 STA costing 212 21 FAX transmittal dated August 26, 1993 212 22 Telecopy cover dated September 3, 1993 212 23 Letter dated December 2, 1993 212 24 Pumping/gravity flow volumes 212 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 153 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 The following deposition of 3 EARL SHANNON, Ph.D., was taken on oral examination, 4 pursuant to notice, for purposes of discovery, and for 5 use as evidence, and for other uses and purposes as may 6 be permitted by the applicable and governing rules. 7 Reading and signing is not waived. 8 * * * 9 Thereupon, 10 EARL SHANNON, Ph.D., 11 was called as a witness, having been previously sworn, 12 was examined and testified as follows: 13 DIRECT EXAMINATION 14 BY MS. PONZOLI: 15 Q Dr. Shannon, I have a number of documents that 16 in large measure I'd like for you to identify for me, and 17 I don't have significant numbers of questions on them, 18 but I just want to know what they are, some out of 19 curiosity, some because I think they're relevant to the 20 documents that we've done before, and a few out of basic 21 curiosity. I'd like to hand you something -- 22 MS. PONZOLI: Let's mark it first, please. 23 (Deposition Exhibit 10 marked for 24 identification.) 25 Q Can you identify this document, Dr. Shannon? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 154 1 A Yes, I can. 2 Q What is it? 3 A It's a document prepared by the Sugar Cane 4 Growers Cooperative expressing views on the Everglades' 5 situation. 6 Q Did you help draft this document, Dr. Shannon? 7 A No; I did not. 8 Q Do you know who did help draft this document? 9 A I really don't. I saw this document after it 10 had been produced. 11 Q Have you ever heard who might have helped draft 12 it? 13 A No. 14 Q I'd like to return to a couple of documents 15 that we looked at yesterday, and just ask you -- it would 16 be EES Number 7. I'm sure this is self-explanatory 17 through the document, but I would like you to walk me 18 through it. I would like to look at page 15, and then 19 the chart on page 9, the table -- table 2 on page 9. 20 A Do you want me to review it first, or do you 21 want to go to those pages? 22 Q No, sir. You take whatever time you need. 23 A Well, this was the third technical memoranda in 24 the series of three. The first one was the 25 microfiltration pilot plant results, the second one was ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 155 1 the conceptual design for application, full-scale 2 application, of the microfiltration at the Flor-Ag site. 3 And in this third document, we looked at various 4 combinations of BMP control and microfiltration at hot 5 spots, or microfiltration on regional schemes where a 6 group of farms would go together in a regional facility; 7 or microfiltration at larger farms, and these were farms 8 over 2,000 acres, and the data base that was considered 9 in this analysis was the 46 farms that we had, early 10 base-line monitoring data, and these 46 farms were 11 members of the Sugar Cane Growers Cooperative. 12 Can I just make a point of clarification from 13 something I said yesterday? 14 Q Certainly. 15 A When we were talking about the Hundley Farm, I 16 think I may have given the impression that it was in 17 vegetables. 18 Q Vegetable and sugar, but I can't remember. 19 A It is not exclusively vegetables. I'm not sure 20 what it's in currently now, but it may be in mainly sugar 21 cane. 22 Q They go back and forth, don't they? A lot of 23 that acreage they'll plant vegetable one year, or however 24 many years, and then back again, don't they? 25 A Well, that's what they say in their permit, but ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 156 1 I'm really not sure when they started on sugar cane, so I 2 wanted to make the point it is not exclusively vegetables 3 at present. 4 Q I had been told by other people experienced in 5 the EAA that's not an uncommon practice. 6 A Okay. Getting back to this, we -- 7 MR. PERKO: I don't think there's a question 8 pending, is there? 9 THE WITNESS: She had asked me to identify and 10 give her an overview on this document, so that's 11 what I'm trying to do. 12 A The objectives of this third memorandum were to 13 estimate the current 1993 total pump volumes from 14 phosphorus loadings from the 46 farms that were part of 15 the data set. To use existing rainfall information and 16 rainfall data to calculate phosphorus contribution from 17 rainfall, and to investigate how microfiltration in 18 combination with BMPs may be able to meet farm wide or 19 group of farm wide phosphorus discharge targets. 20 BY MS. PONZOLI: 21 Q Your final conclusion on this whether it should 22 be individual farm, larger farm, or regional facilities 23 is what, Dr. Shannon? 24 MR. PERKO: Object to the form. 25 Q Have you reached a conclusion as to the best ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 157 1 use of microfiltration in the EAA, whether it should be 2 used on individual farms, or in a regional way, or -- 3 A Well, the conclusion would be that it's best 4 directed to hot spots, and that could be an individual 5 farm or it could be two adjacent farms that have high 6 phosphorus concentrations. 7 Q So it's really geographic, it isn't limited to 8 a single farm or something. The hot spot concept is just 9 really going to where you could get the most bang for the 10 buck, in a manner of speaking? 11 A I think that's a fair analogy, where you want 12 to get the highest phosphorus concentration feed water 13 that you can and treat it closest to the source. 14 Q On page 15, I think you have your main 15 findings, is that accurate? 16 A Yes. We have a number of conclusions that we 17 listed on page 15. 18 Q For your rainfall phosphorus number, did you 19 again use the 29 parts per billion in estimating what was 20 in rainfall? 21 A Yes, we did. And we used the average rainfall 22 number of 48.3 inches per year, I think the number is. 23 Q I'm interested in how you came to what it would 24 cost per acre for the co-op farmers and what you believe 25 that means, and then you've compared it to the technical ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 158 1 mediated plan, and what that would cost for the co-op 2 farmers. I would like you to, if you would first explain 3 to me -- you have a number here of $41 per acre. If you 4 would explain first that number to me, the cost of that 5 to the farmers. 6 A Okay. The $41-per-acre cost assumes that the 7 phosphorus contribution to the farms from rainfall there 8 would be a credit for that, so that, really, they 9 wouldn't have to remove that phosphorus. 10 Q They're only responsible, under whoever's 11 interpretation of this application, of what they 12 contribute, the phosphorus that they actually contribute 13 to the system? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And that represents the credit for the 16 rainfall. And then the amount under your computation 17 they have contributed -- 18 A Sorry. Finish the question. 19 Q -- the amount that they've contributed to the 20 main canals, I guess. 21 A We've used, as an overall target for the 22 requirement that they have to get down to, we've used 23 0.05 milligrams per liter as the target. And then we've 24 taken their total discharge volumes from the farms, and 25 we said that's what they'd have to meet. And then -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 159 1 with the rainfall adjustment. Then we backed out the 2 amount of phosphorus that would have come from rainfall 3 directly on those 46 farms. 4 Q Did you only back out rainfall? 5 A That's all. 6 Q And how did you come up with the mediated 7 technical plan of $92 an acre? 8 A That was taking the cost from the Burns and 9 McDonnell report. I believe it's the November report. 10 And backing out any costs that were associated with 11 enhancing water distribution in the conservation areas -- 12 in other words, we just had the STA cost in there, and we 13 took the total annual cost of that, and divided it by the 14 total acreage served by the STAs, the total agricultural 15 area served by the STAs. 16 Q I'm sorry. It's been a while since I even 17 looked at that, and that I'm not promising that I ever 18 read the Burns and McDonnell, but was that for all the 19 STAs being on line? 20 A Yes. That's for the total mediated plan area 21 served. I believe on page 14 the costs, actual costs, 22 are spelled out. Did you want me to -- 23 Q No; you don't need to walk me straight through 24 it. But you didn't do any like incremental analysis for 25 "X" number of years all you would be charged is a certain ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 160 1 amount, because only a certain number of STAs are being 2 built, or the land purchased, or whatever? 3 A No; I didn't. The analysis didn't get into any 4 staging of the STAs. It just looked at the total 5 solution and the total annual cost of that solution. 6 Q And then if you would explain the final 118 an 7 acre to me. That's without correcting for rainfall, is 8 that the only difference? 9 A Yes. And an important point here is that our 10 sample size was limited to the 46 co-op farms, and out of 11 those co-op farms in the data base we had what we would 12 consider one hot spot. So we looked at the 46 farms and 13 looked at scenarios that would allow them to meet the 14 target so this wasn't an EAA wide analysis. 15 Q Certainly. Have you done it on a larger number 16 of farms? Have you done the same analysis for a larger 17 number of farms and come up with somewhat different 18 numbers because you have different hot spots or whatever? 19 A No; we haven't done any analysis outside the 20 data base that we had for the 46 farms. 21 Q Do you intend to do that? Have you been asked 22 to do that? 23 A Once we summarize the early base-line data that 24 we have for the some 130 farms, we would plan on doing 25 that. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 161 1 Q Will you use the same method of analysis 2 outlined in this report for that? 3 A I think we will make some changes from the 4 methods. I think our approach will be to look at overall 5 loadings from the EAA and various combinations of hot 6 spots that would allow us to maximize the reduction that 7 we could get with microfiltration. 8 Q I have one -- you know, from a theoretical 9 standpoint, Dr. Shannon, this is kind of interesting how 10 you would resolve this problem using your remedial 11 method. But one problem that I keep coming back to is it 12 provides, in one sense, as I'm understanding it, 13 certainty for the farmer as to what his obligations are 14 in regard to the water. How does it provide certainty 15 for the water conservation areas or the natural areas 16 that they will in fact receive what the goal was? 17 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 18 Q Do you understand the question? 19 A Yes. Our overall objective in the 20 microfiltration work and the three technical memoranda 21 was to look at phosphorus and how we could use various 22 combinations of BMPs and microfiltration to meet 23 phosphorus targets, and we focused on phosphorus, and we 24 used the phosphorus target of 0.05. 25 Q Well, I wasn't really returning so much to the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 162 1 marsh-ready concept, are you meeting other needs of the 2 natural area, but even as to the phosphorus, I still have 3 this lingering doubt in my mind that despite your best 4 efforts, and your best calculations, and most efficient 5 waste minimization techniques, you might have a very 6 different product at the other end, might you? 7 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 8 Q Do you understand the question? What came out 9 of the EAA would not necessarily be the 0.05, isn't that 10 true? 11 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 12 A Absolutely meeting 0.05 on a consistent basis 13 with combinations of BMPs and microfiltration doesn't 14 necessarily follow from, you know, our approach. By the 15 same token, I'm not sure that it follows from any of the 16 other technologies either. 17 Q I'm well aware of that. Have you done any 18 analysis of the certainty of one approach over the other 19 as to the result coming out of the EAA? 20 MR. PERKO: Object to the form. 21 A I have not done any analysis, but I have seen, 22 as part of the SAGE material, Dr. Walker's analysis of 23 predictions of effluent phosphorus that may come out of 24 and STA probability distribution of effluent. 25 Q Have you done similar probability type of ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 163 1 analysis -- 2 A No. 3 Q -- for microfiltration? 4 A No; we haven't. 5 Q Can it be done? 6 A I believe it can be done once we do the EAA 7 wide analysis. The one major limitation of our work here 8 is it was focused on 46 farms that we had data for. 9 Q That's about a quarter of the EAA? 10 A Well, in land area, it's only about a tenth. 11 Q Oh, really. Because it's a couple of hundred 12 farms you said yesterday. 13 A There's a lot of small farms in our data base, 14 and the total acreage that those 46 farms encompass is 15 something like, I believe, it's around 48,000 acres. So 16 that's about one-tenth of the EAA total area. 17 Q When do you estimate you will have this work 18 done? 19 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 20 A Our best estimate is that we need another three 21 or four weeks to get the data base in a form that we can 22 start extracting meaningful loading calculations. We 23 need to get the acreage values for the farms. I would 24 estimate a minimum of six weeks. 25 MS. PONZOLI: Well, Mr. Perko, we will need to ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 164 1 do Dr. Shannon again. 2 Q I think the comparison, or at least certainly 3 the one-tenth of the EAA may be a very different result 4 from 100 percent of the EAA, or at least we said it was 5 two-thirds have participated in early base line, is that 6 right? 7 A Yes, I think it's about two-thirds. 8 Q And the probability analysis, have you been 9 asked to do that? 10 A We have not specifically been asked to do it, 11 but it's an exercise that once we develop the sites where 12 we have treatment, the hot spots, and we develop 13 information on what level of BMPs are required to get the 14 rest of the total load removal, and I believe analysis 15 could be done to make some predictions of what the EAA 16 wide phosphorus concentrations may be, may not be a 17 formal probability distribution, but I think we could 18 address that. 19 Q One area -- and maybe I can avoid even doing 20 the documents, depending on what you tell me. I saw 21 through your documents several references to farm storm 22 water treatment areas, and I know people have talked 23 about regional treatment areas, and of course we have the 24 large ones that we're presently looking at. Are you 25 still an advocate of the concept of farm storm water ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 165 1 treatment areas? 2 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 3 Q I don't mean an advocate in that you still 4 believe that's an alternative that should be explored. 5 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 6 A Well, I believe the context that you're using 7 farm treatment areas is probably retention areas for 8 water. 9 Q Yes. 10 A And I am certainly not an advocate, or would 11 feel that's a viable alternative by itself. I believe 12 that any treatment technology that you put in for a farm, 13 an individual farm, be it a hot spot or whatever, there's 14 going to need to be flow equalization. There's going to 15 need to be some form of retention in front of that 16 treatment facility. Otherwise you'd have to size the 17 facility, it's instantaneous flow rate would have to be 18 very high, and the capital costs would be pushed up. So 19 I think flow equalization is required in our 20 microfiltration -- for our microfiltration alternative, 21 it's required for direct filtration alternative. 22 Anything that you want to try and keep the treatment 23 going for a good portion of the year, you're going to 24 need flow equalization in front of it. 25 Q Let me just show you an April 6th, 1992 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 166 1 document, before we identify it and pass it around. I 2 don't think that's what you were talking about at that 3 time, though, is it? 4 A No. This memo that you just gave me was 5 produced after I reviewed a document that was handed out 6 at SAGE, and I believe a document had been done by the 7 South Florida Water Management District. 8 Q Is this the document you're referring to? 9 A Yes, that's correct. 10 Q Do you consider that concept a viable 11 alternative? 12 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 13 A Can I just take a minute? 14 Q I mean, if you're going to tell me you don't 15 believe this is something that should be explored or 16 pursued, then I'm not going to mess with it with you 17 because it was just among your documents and I wanted to 18 eliminate it as something that you believed in. 19 A (Perusing document.) This document talks about 20 treatment on site, but the treatment technology is the 21 same as what's in a storm water treatment area, yes. 22 Q That was my understanding. 23 A Yes. 24 MR. PERKO: For the record, Dr. Shannon, would 25 you identify the title of the document that you're ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 167 1 just referring to. 2 THE WITNESS: The title of the document that 3 I've just been handed is farm storm water treatment 4 area alternative dated February 1992, prepared by 5 the South Florida Water Management District, 6 Construction Management Department. 7 BY MS. PONZOLI: 8 Q And your recommendation, Dr. Shannon, regarding 9 farm storm water treatment area alternatives was, or is 10 what? 11 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 12 A My recommendation regarding the type of storm 13 water treatment area as proposed in that report is that 14 they not be considered for individual farm use. 15 Q And for what reason? 16 A They have the same -- they'll probably have the 17 same land area requirements as the STAs plus some, 18 because you've got more dikes, and levies, and so on. So 19 the total land consumed would be even greater than the 20 STA alternative. And it's based on the STA wetlands 21 approach, and I think the same uncertainties that the 22 STAs would apply to the individual farm treatment units. 23 Q I have two documents, Dr. Shannon, I'd like to 24 hand you. But one would appear to be either an early 25 draft of the other, or just -- why don't I hand them both ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 168 1 to you, and you tell me, and we may only introduce one 2 into the record. 3 A (Perusing document.) 4 Q We certainly don't need all those FAX sheets. 5 A I believe these are the same document. 6 Q And one is just a portion of the other? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Let's get rid of the one that's the small 9 portion one and just deal with the main document itself, 10 the December 16th, it's bates number 879, that one 11 beginning -- 12 A Yes. 13 Q Would you identify that document for me, 14 please, and let's mark it. 15 A This is a memorandum entitled additional Sugar 16 Cane Growers Cooperative wide phosphorus reduction 17 BMPs/microfiltration treatment scenarios, and it is from 18 Kevin Boehmer to Bill Green. 19 Q Did you review this document before it went 20 out? 21 A Yes, I did. 22 MS. PONZOLI: Can we mark it, please. 23 (Deposition Exhibit 11 marked for 24 identification.) 25 BY MS. PONZOLI: ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 169 1 Q Again, Dr. Shannon, you have used the 29 parts 2 per billion for the rainfall, is that the consistent 3 number that you use in your analysis? 4 A In the technical memoranda, any rainfall 5 calculations were based on the 29 parts per billion 6 phosphorus. In this memo, we looked at -- also looked at 7 50 parts per billion, which was the same number that 8 Burns and McDonnell used in their analysis. 9 Q Which one do you think more accurately reflects 10 the rainfall, Dr. Shannon? 11 A I would say that based on our work that we did 12 back in '77-78 at our sites that the rainfall probably 13 lies -- the average value for the EAA, this is rainfall 14 over the EAA -- probably lies in the area of closer to 15 the 50 parts per billion than it does to the 29. 16 Q Let me ask you why you continuously use the 29 17 throughout your documents? 18 A I think to be conservative. 19 Q Is it the rainfall number that in the end 20 affects what the estimated cost per acre per farmer ends 21 up? Is that really the determinative factor that's going 22 to nail down what the farmer should pay on a per acre 23 basis? 24 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 25 A We looked at two scenarios, one was with the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 170 1 so-called rainfall correction and then we looked at 2 uncorrected, where there was no adjustment made in the 3 loadings with respect to the amount of phosphorus that 4 had to be removed. So the main correction factor, the 5 only correction factor, is that rainfall factor. And it 6 does influence the per-acre cost because, obviously, you 7 don't have to remove as much phosphorus because you're 8 giving yourself a credit for not removing the rainfall. 9 Q When you use the word rainfall correction, do 10 you mean from no correction to whatever number you 11 choose, or do you mean from 29 to 50? 12 A No. In our initial technical memorandum, we 13 used 29, that was the basis of the correction. In this 14 one we looked at -- in this memorandum, we looked at an 15 additional scenario of the rainfall being 50. So it 16 wasn't an incremental correction, it was just 50 in these 17 scenarios versus 29 in the previous analysis. 18 Q On page 3, it would look like it's still 29, 19 but I know you're telling me it's 50. I'm confused. 20 A (Perusing document.) I would like to just go 21 back on that 50. We did use 50 -- I think we used in 22 our -- just looking at the tables that are attached, we 23 looked at a scenario that was 150 percent of 29, which 24 would be 14. It's a little bit less than 50. That was 25 the scenario we looked at, just a 50 percent increase in ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 171 1 29 parts per billion, if you look in the attached tables. 2 Q Oh, I see. Right. And in some you didn't? 3 A Yes. We actually did look at 50, too, which is 4 171 percent of 29. That's the 50 part. 5 Q The rainfall correction calculation is where I 6 see how it comes out each time? 7 A Yes. 8 Q And is this the same? Is DES 882, 883, 884, 9 are we looking at the same piece of property done 10 different ways or not? Can you tell me? 11 A We're looking at the same group of farms. 12 Q I understand the same group, but not the same 13 farm? 14 A No; not the same farm. It's the same 46 group 15 of farms. It's just an extension of the analysis that's 16 in the third technical memorandum for different rainfall 17 values. 18 Q And am I correct in understanding it that when 19 you do it at 29 parts per billion, none of your 46 farms 20 would appear to be a sink. When you do it at 150 percent 21 of 29, 20 of your farms would appear to be a sink, and 22 when you do it at 171.2 percent, 22 of your farms would 23 appear to be a sink, is that accurate? Am I reading it 24 right? 25 A No; you're not reading it right. I would like ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 172 1 to refer back to a table in Exhibit Number 7, I believe, 2 to address the sink question. 3 Q Right. Who has my 7? 4 A I just need a few minutes to sort something out 5 (Perusing document.) Well, okay. I think I'm ready to 6 proceed on this regarding the sink question that you 7 asked. 8 Q Right. 9 A If we take the average annual rainfall of 48 -- 10 Q Where are you? I'm going to have to work to 11 understand. 12 A I'm referring to page 5 of Exhibit Number 7. 13 Q Okay. 14 A And in the first paragraph, we mention that the 15 value used for rainfall phosphorus concentration was 29 16 parts per billion, or 0.029 milligrams per liter. Then 17 the volume of rainfall number that we've used 48.53 18 inches, that's in the second paragraph, and that's a 19 reference of Burns and McDonnell. So based on that 20 rainfall volume and the rainfall concentration, that 21 works out to 0.32 pounds per acre per year. That's the 22 rainfall contribution per acre of land. 23 Q I understand. 24 A Now, if we go to table number 1 on page 7 in 25 that same exhibit, if you look down the last column, the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 173 1 extrapolated phosphorus discharge, and there's a number 2 in pounds, the first entry in that column is pounds per 3 acre -- or sorry. The second column is pounds per acre 4 per year. 5 Q Yes, sir. 6 A Any farm that exhibits a phosphorus discharge 7 value of less than 0.32 pounds per acre on this table 8 would be considered a sink. 9 Q So the third one down would be a sink -- or the 10 second one down would be a sink, third one down would be 11 a sink? 12 A No. Less than 0.32. 13 Q So we have to go down six to get a sink, right? 14 It's 0.31? 15 A We don't have any that are sinks until we get 16 down -- well, about halfway down the table there's 0.31. 17 There's one further down, 0.26, 0.22, 0.17, 0.19. So 18 there are several that are sinks. I'm sorry. There is 19 one 0.15, which is 11 lines down. 20 Q I'm with you. I'm with you. And the numbers 21 are hard to read. What I was calling a 31 was an 81. 22 Then let's move back over so I can understand, 23 to number 11, EES Number 11 to page DES -- I guess we can 24 choose almost any of them, but let's choose DES 884. 25 A Yes. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 174 1 Q Let me ask you, Dr. Shannon, if you walk me 2 through one of these charts, would I be able to 3 understand all of them once I can understand one of them? 4 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 5 Q Are they set up the same way, the variables 6 just change? 7 A Yes. It's the same spread sheet. The input 8 variables change. 9 Q Then what? Walk me through one and let me see 10 if I can understand what you're doing with how you're 11 changing the variables and what they mean. Because I 12 think the bottom line is number 5, in some instances. 13 A Yes. 14 Q Okay. 15 A The inputs are -- the first input is flow 16 multiplier, and this was a factor that we introduced 17 because we only had -- we had nine months of data when we 18 did this analysis. We were doing this analysis before we 19 had all of the 1993 data for those farms. So we made 20 some guesstimates of what was the appropriate 21 extrapolation factor to take our -- to take the flows 22 that we had observed and get those to total annual flows. 23 So that factor was 1.3. And I believe that was the same 24 factor in every chart. It should be the same in every 25 chart. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 175 1 Q In your '93, when you have your full year of 2 flow data, you will have what you believe to be the 3 actual number? 4 A Yes, we will. We'll use the actual flows for 5 the farms. 6 Q So this one is a constant throughout the work 7 that I will look at presently -- 8 A Yes. 9 Q -- the 1.30? 10 A The -- 11 Q The next one will be a constant also? 12 A That should be the same on every table 13 except -- no, I'm sorry. It's not. As part of this 14 memorandum, we looked at some what-if scenarios of less 15 than expected performance from the STAs. And then we 16 assumed if the STAs performed at this level, then this 17 would become the allowable discharge concentration for 18 our scenarios. 19 Q So that became a variable? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Then the next? 22 A The next is the percent reduction in phosphorus 23 loading that would be attributed to BMPs, and I believe 24 we looked at 45, 25, and there's one here that says 27. 25 I'm not sure -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 176 1 Q And 35? 2 A I believe it should be -- 3 Q I saw it. 4 A It should be 25, 35, and 45. The total yearly 5 rainfall number should stay the same on all the tables. 6 That's the number from Burns and McDonnell, 48.53 inches 7 per year. And then the rainfall correction calculation 8 is -- we've just done percentage corrections of the 0.029 9 value that was used in other previous analysis just to 10 simplify the spread sheet calculations. So we used a 11 zero-percent correction of 0.0292, which mean we would 12 take rainfall -- take any rainfall correction out at all. 13 Q And then you used several variations, the 100, 14 the 100 and whatever? 15 A We used the 150, which I think works to about 16 44 parts per billion, and then we used 171.3, which works 17 to 50 parts per billion. 18 Q That one becomes a variable. And then the 19 effluent phosphorus concentrations for the 20 microfiltration, you took different readings that you had 21 obtained? 22 A We used -- we were fairly conservative on this. 23 We demonstrated in our short field pilot study that we 24 could produce effluents lower than 0.04, but we used 0.04 25 for our analysis. It should be the same in all the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 177 1 tables. 2 Q Then that one stays a constant on all the 3 tables? 4 A Yes. So, really, all we're changing in these 5 input variables is that the allowable discharge 6 concentration will change, the BMP level will change to 7 three different levels, and the rainfall changes. And 8 then the microfiltration scenario we look at various 9 numbers of sites that we apply it at, I think up to 20. 10 Q That's the one I don't understand. That's how 11 much treatment you're applying? 12 A Yes. Treatment in addition to the BMP 13 reduction. So there are various combinations of 14 treatment and BMPs. 15 Q So on your spread sheets, does that become a 16 variable? I'm seeing one hot spot everywhere on these, 17 but on various spread sheets I might have, it could be a 18 variable, is that right or not? 19 A No. I think what you're seeing is correct, we 20 didn't look at other scenarios other than the one 21 so-called hot spot that we had. That's right. We only 22 looked at one microfiltration unit at Flor-Ag in all of 23 these scenarios. 24 Q Now, looking at the outputs, are the outputs 25 dictated by this at the top? I guess they must have to ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 178 1 be. 2 A Right. I believe they have to be. 3 Q And so any changes I see are a reflection of 4 the variables at the top? 5 A Yes. 6 Q The December 3rd, which is EES Number 7; and 7 the December 16th memos, which is EES Number 11. The 8 December 16th, do you recall -- these are different 9 spread sheets, aren't they? Do you recall just offhand? 10 They appear to have different dates. I don't know if 11 that's just the date of the memo, or if that reflects -- 12 no; it's not the date of the memo. 13 A (Perusing document.) Could you repeat the 14 question. 15 Q I'm trying to account for the fact that -- am I 16 looking at the same spread sheet? I just can't match 17 them up, side by side, or am I looking at spread sheets 18 generated at different times? 19 A These were generated on the dates that are 20 indicated at the top. So the spread sheets that are 21 shown in Exhibit 7 were generated on December 3rd. The 22 spread sheets shown in Exhibit 11 were generated on the 23 14th of December. 24 Q But I just might find different variables in 25 the inputs, is that what I should expect to see, between ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 179 1 the EES 7 and EES 11? 2 A The exhibits -- sorry. The spread sheets in 3 Exhibit 7 would have different variables. We weren't 4 correcting for different levels of rainfall in Exhibit 7. 5 We were only using the 29 or we were doing no rainfall 6 corrections. So it should either be 100 percent of 29 or 7 it should be zero percent of 29. 8 Q So December 16th would reflect a little more 9 refined analysis than the December 3rd? 10 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 11 A No; I don't think there was any refinement in 12 the analysis. Exhibit 11 involved us looking at some 13 different levels of rainfall over the 29, and involved us 14 looking at different effluent requirements for the farms 15 to meet based on STA performance. 16 Q Okay. 17 A So the spread sheet analysis should be the same 18 between the two exercises. 19 Q You said before that when you have all of the 20 data in, the early base-line data, and you have it in a 21 form that you can use it in three to four weeks, that you 22 plan to do some changes from these methods, is that 23 correct, of analysis? Some changes from these methods of 24 analysis, am I correct? 25 A We would change our approach somewhat. I don't ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 180 1 see it as a major deviation in the way we are analyzing 2 the situation. We're going to look at hot spots; 3 whereas, in this case, we really only had one hot spot. 4 And we extended the microfiltration treatment to a number 5 of farms. In fact, we went as high as 20 farms in the 6 Exhibit 7. We looked at 20 farms. We called them hot 7 spots, but they were the hot spots in our 46 farms 8 because we only had 46 farms to work with. So they were 9 the farms with the 20 highest loadings, if you rank from 10 highest loading to lowest loading. So our -- we'll do 11 the same sort of analysis with the EAA as a whole, but 12 we'll be focusing on areas like Flor-Ag. 13 Q And you will extrapolate from the Flor-Ag data 14 and say if you receive these types of reductions at these 15 other hot spots, you could expect to have this type of 16 phosphorus loading, is that accurate? 17 A We will take the flow information and the 18 phosphorus concentration information that we can extract 19 from the early base-line data, and get an idea of what 20 size of equalization facility would be required to handle 21 that flow, and we may use some scaling factors from the 22 Flor-Ag analysis, and determine what size of 23 microfiltration unit we would have to locate there, and 24 scale the costs accordingly based on the size of the 25 unit, and then scale the operating costs as well. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 181 1 Because I don't think it's going to turn out that all the 2 sites are going to be like Flor-Ag. There will be 3 different acreages, there will be different flow regimes, 4 and there will have to be some adjustment made -- there 5 will have to be some site-specific adjustments made for 6 each site before you develop a cost for that site. 7 Q But going back to my question, you're going to 8 have to estimate what your phosphorus reduction will be 9 at these additional hot spots because you obviously 10 haven't done it. 11 A Yes. 12 Q And you're estimating what size microfiltration 13 unit you would need there, you're estimating what it 14 would cost, and you're estimating what type of results it 15 could in fact obtain? 16 A Yes. 17 MS. PONZOLI: Can we take a quick break? 18 MR. PERKO: Sure. 19 (Brief recess.) 20 (Deposition Exhibits 12, 13, and 14 marked for 21 identification.) 22 BY MS. PONZOLI: 23 Q Dr. Shannon, I'm going to hand you a document 24 and ask you to identify it for me, please. 25 A This is a memorandum from myself to Bill Green, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 182 1 and the subject is comparison of EAA total phosphorus 2 mass balances, and it's dated July 19th, 1993. 3 Q Do they come to different conclusions? I 4 haven't really read through the chart. I'm not going to 5 spend a long time on it. 6 A Can I raise a point here? 7 Q Yes, sir. 8 A This July 19th memo, there was an error in the 9 units that were used in some of the calculations of 10 conversion from pounds to kilograms. There's some 11 English to metric conversion. We issued a later version 12 of this. We discovered that error, and we issued a later 13 version of this, and I believe it's dated October 18th. 14 Q October 18th, 1993? 15 A Yes. 16 Q There may have been -- and I think there 17 actually were several copies of what appeared to be the 18 same document, and I didn't pay attention. So I need to 19 find that October 18th version. 20 MR. PERKO: It was produced, counselor. 21 Q I'm pretty sure I saw another one. We'll just 22 look for it on a break, or at lunch, or something, and 23 substitute it. So let's put that aside for now. 24 A October 18th. 25 MR. PERKO: It looks very much -- virtually the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 183 1 same thing. 2 Q I hand you EES Number 13 and ask you if you can 3 identify that. 4 A This is a memo from myself to Bill Green, and 5 the subject is Everglades SWIM Plan challenge document. 6 Q Yes, sir. 7 A It's dated July 6, 1993. 8 Q It's the outline of a paper to be written, is 9 that accurate? 10 A It's an outline of a report that was 11 anticipated as part of the SWIM Plan challenge. 12 Q Did that document get written, Dr. Shannon? 13 A No; it did not. 14 Q I'm sorry. I kept looking for it in your 15 documents. Is there a reason it wasn't written? 16 A Yes. At the time we prepared this, this was 17 our thinking at the time of, you know, what would be 18 incorporated in a report. Once we started doing the 19 microfiltration work and we got the early base-line data, 20 or become aware of the early base-line data, we revised 21 our approach somewhat. And we've accomplished many of 22 the objectives, or many of the points that are outlined 23 in here in our three technical memoranda. So I'd say by 24 and large the three technical memoranda that we produced 25 all related to microfiltration and various applications ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 184 1 of microfiltration in conjunction with BMPs, they have 2 replaced what was in this report, or proposed report. 3 Q So they've accomplished pretty much the same 4 goal that this might have solved? 5 A More or less. There certainly are differences 6 between here and some of the areas that are listed here 7 and some of the areas that are covered in our technical 8 memoranda. 9 Q You mean as to proposed alternatives that you 10 are now less -- believe are less attractive? 11 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 12 A No. I think our efforts became more focused on 13 microfiltration. I think direct filtration has been 14 dealt with through SAGE, STAs have been dealt with 15 through SAGE, and we didn't anticipate our analysis going 16 beyond those reports so we tried to focus on 17 microfiltration. 18 Q SAGE has not been meeting any more. 19 A I've noticed. 20 Q Do you think that's a committee that needs to 21 reconvene? 22 A My personal feelings was -- my personal 23 feelings are that SAGE served a useful purpose. 24 Q Which was, in your opinion, what? 25 A Well, it was a forum for discussion of the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 185 1 rationale behind the STAs, for discussion of other 2 alternatives, discussion on BMPs, and so on. So I 3 believe the process was set up for this information to be 4 presented to a group of people who are -- had knowledge 5 in water quality, and wetland issues, and Everglades 6 issues, and so on. So from that standpoint, it was a 7 good forum. 8 Q Would it serve that same purpose if it 9 continued to meet? 10 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 11 A As far as the purpose of the forum objective, 12 or purpose, I think it would continue to serve that 13 purpose. 14 MS. PONZOLI: Mark this one, please -- I'm 15 sorry, it is marked. 16 Q Dr. Shannon, I'm going to hand you EES Number 17 14 and ask you if you can identify that. 18 A Did you want me to identify the FAX cover sheet 19 or the memorandum? 20 Q The memo is really what I'm interested in. FAX 21 cover sheets are less interesting. 22 A Okay. The memo is from Jeff Ward, Sugar Cane 23 Growers Co-op, to Earl Shannon. It's authorizing us to 24 proceed with our microfiltration -- just a minute. 25 (Perusing document.) ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 186 1 It's authorizing us to proceed with our 2 Everglades SWIM Plan challenge work, which included 3 reference to microfiltration. 4 Q It's really a composite of a FAX, a Ward 5 letter, and then one from yourself, is that accurate? 6 A Yes. The covering FAX is my FAX to 7 Steve Lavender in our Deerfield Beach office directing 8 him to set up the logistics for the project, set up a 9 budget, set up a project. 10 The response letter from the co-op from 11 Mr. Ward to myself is authorizing us to do work that we 12 had outlined in our attached letter of June 30th. So the 13 sequence of these is actually in reverse order. The 14 letter was sent outlining our estimate of cost to do the 15 SWIM challenge work and to do the microfiltration work, 16 and Mr. Ward's letter authorizing us to proceed, and then 17 my FAX to Steve Lavender in Deerfield Beach asking him to 18 set up a project for this work. 19 Q Well, then, if I understand your letter, 20 Dr. Shannon, to Mr. Green, I had originally thought this 21 was only your microfiltration work, but it's not, it's 22 more than that, isn't it? This includes an estimate for 23 more than just the microfiltration work, it includes some 24 SWIM challenge efforts? 25 A Yes, it does. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 187 1 Q You indicate here that you are interfacing with 2 Tetra Tech and Curt Pollman on modeling activities. The 3 third paragraph in the June 30th letter. 4 A That's correct. 5 Q I would like to know what that interface is. 6 A Well, at the time that this was prepared, which 7 was really our initial efforts in the SWIM challenge, I 8 anticipated a number of -- tried to anticipate some time 9 in here to interface with Tetra Tech and Curt Pollman on 10 their activities. 11 Q Did you in fact interface with Tetra Tech and 12 Dr. Pollman? 13 A We have had -- we've had maybe three, four 14 conference calls. 15 Q Have you shared data among yourselves: 16 Mr. Green, Dr. Pollman, and yourself? 17 A Can I deal with one at a time? 18 Q Yes, sir. 19 A On Tetra Tech, the main interface I've had with 20 Tetra Tech is a meeting before -- a meeting in Washington 21 with people in your office. I'm trying to think of the 22 date of that meeting. 23 Q Is that the 100-year snow storm. I can't 24 remember if you were there. I can't remember who was 25 there. I just remember ice up to my ankles. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 188 1 A But I believe one meeting with Mr. Green and 2 then the conference call, and I haven't seen the final 3 versions of their modeling efforts. 4 Q Are you aware of the results, what they show? 5 A No; I'm not. 6 Q That's Mr. Green. How about Dr. Pollman? 7 A Dr. Pollman, our main interface with 8 Dr. Pollman and KBN was, as I described previously in my 9 testimony or in deposition on the mercury sampling on the 10 microfiltration unit, and he has sent us some rainfall 11 information and, you know, a few what I considered rather 12 routine data requests of data that they had that we 13 thought we might need with respect to rainfall and other 14 information. 15 Q But other than his sort of joining his mercury 16 sampling to your microfiltration effort, there's been no 17 joint collaboration on an effort for the trial? 18 A No. 19 MS. PONZOLI: Are those the pictures? 20 MR. PERKO: Yes. I would like to look at them, 21 if you don't mind. 22 MS. PONZOLI: Why don't we just go off the 23 record. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 (Deposition Exhibits 15, 16, 17, and 18 marked ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 189 1 for identification.) 2 BY MS. PONZOLI: 3 Q Dr. Shannon, I'm going to hand you EES Number 4 15 and ask you to identify it for me, please. 5 A This is a memo from Kevin Boehmer to 6 Mr. Jeff Ward, and it's dated November 18th, 1993. And 7 the subject is analysis of the potential impact of 8 1992-93 water year inflow volumes on STA discharge 9 concentrations. 10 Q And attached to it is a table 1 -- 11 A That's correct. 12 Q -- with predicted STA phosphorus discharge 13 concentration calculations? 14 Let me just make sure, what you've done is 15 you've charted Burns and McDonnell -- in South Florida 16 Water Management District -- you've charted other 17 people's information, you've done no additional 18 manipulation to it, is that accurate? 19 A We've taken flow data from South Florida Water 20 Management District and Burns and McDonnell, and those 21 were the two sources of information. There were no other 22 sources, and there was no adjustment of flows. 23 Q I'm going to hand you EES Number 16, and ask 24 you if you can identify that. 25 A (Perusing document.) This is a memo from ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 190 1 Earl Shannon to George Wedgworth, Sugar Cane Growers 2 Co-op, dated May 3rd, 1993, and it's entitled phosphorus 3 balance at Sugarcane Plantation. 4 Q You keep using that term "Sugarcane 5 Plantation," I believe, is that a generic reference to an 6 actual sugar cane farm, or is that the name of a farm? 7 A This comes from -- the name of the site that we 8 did our '77-78 studies was called the Vaughn Plantation. 9 Q You talked about that. 10 A So it's a slip in that we're using the term 11 "plantation" to refer to sugar cane sites. 12 Q You told me that yesterday. 13 A This is referring to the Vaughn Plantation. 14 Q You told me that yesterday. I think we went 15 through that yesterday. You mentioned in here that you'd 16 be interested in seeing Tetra Tech mass balance on the 17 entire EAA showing you the net sink of phosphorus. Did 18 you ever see such an iteration of the Tetra Tech model? 19 A No; I haven't. 20 Q I mean, you didn't see some interim iteration 21 or have you seen any final iteration? 22 A I haven't seen any interim or final mass 23 balance from Tetra Tech that would show that the entire 24 EAA is a net sink of phosphorus. 25 Q Do you think such a model exists? I mean, have ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 191 1 you heard that there is such a model that shows that? 2 A Well, I've been informed that Tetra Tech is 3 working on mass balance models for the EAA. 4 Q But have you heard any conclusion that model 5 will show that the EAA is a net sink? 6 A I've been involved in some conversations where 7 it's been indicated to me that their model shows that 8 it's a net sink. 9 Q But they're not sharing it with you? 10 A I haven't seen the results with the mass 11 balance. 12 Q I'd like to do the picture -- let me finish 13 these that we've numbered. Number 17, Dr. Shannon, if 14 you can identify that one for us. 15 A Number 17 is a table of data for the 46 Sugar 16 Cane Growers Cooperative farms that we had early 17 base-line data for, and it shows much the same 18 information as was in Exhibit Number 11, I can look up 19 the table number, if you want it. 20 Q It looks the same, pretty much, doesn't it? 21 A Well, no; it's not exactly the same -- 22 Q Then I would appreciate your looking it up. 23 A I'll point out the difference between the two 24 tables. 25 Q It's Number 11? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 192 1 A It's in Exhibit Number 11. I'm sorry. It's 2 not 11. It's Number 7. It's comparable to table 1 in 3 Exhibit Number 7 with the main difference being that 4 table number 1 in Exhibit 7 represents the flow data that 5 we had to date for '93, which was, I believe, till the 6 end of August, and then we extrapolated flows in table 7 number 1 to the end of the year. And that the Exhibit 8 Number 17 shows the actual flow data, uses the actual 9 flow data for 1993. 10 Q And the results come out in what? How do the 11 results compare, Dr. Shannon? 12 A There was considerable pumping at most of these 13 sites in September through December, and the actual flow 14 values come out higher than our extrapolated flow values. 15 Q Which supports your other premise that the 16 control of pumpings is one of the main ways of 17 controlling the phosphorus, is that accurate? 18 A Well, not -- you can't draw that direct 19 inference. The 1993 rainfall was -- for the whole 20 year -- was quite a bit above average rainfall 21 conditions. 22 Q 1993 was an extraordinary rainfall year? 23 A It was higher than normal. It was probably at 24 least 10 percent and maybe 15 -- as high as 15 or 20 25 percent over normal. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 193 1 Q And how often did those rainfall years happen 2 in South Florida? 3 A I would just be speculating. 4 Q I'd like to ask you to identify these 5 photographs. And I don't know how to handle this in the 6 record. 7 MS. PONZOLI: How do you want to do this, 8 Mr. Perko? This is always a mess when you've got a 9 whole bunch of photos into the record. I know you 10 don't want to leave your original photos, that I 11 understand, and I'm not asking you to. Can we 12 number them, and if we want to, to talk about them 13 at trial, you would produce them again at trial, 14 and -- 15 MR. PERKO: Yes. 16 MS. PONZOLI: -- I could at least hold up 17 number 13, and Dr. Shannon and I or somebody could 18 talk about number 13. 19 MR. PERKO: That would be fine. We can have 20 them numbered on the back. 21 MS. PONZOLI: So then what we'd have to do is 22 have her number all of these. 23 MR. PERKO: That would be fine. 24 MS. PONZOLI: But let the record reflect that 25 you'll retain custody. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 194 1 (Brief recess.) 2 (Deposition Exhibit 19 marked for 3 identification.) 4 BY MS. PONZOLI: 5 Q I've handed you Exhibit Number 19, Dr. Shannon, 6 and it would be, I guess, 43 photos, is that accurate? 7 A There is 43 photographs here, yes. 8 Q Who took those photographs, Dr. Shannon? 9 A I believe Kevin Boehmer took these photographs. 10 And if I could just qualify my knowledge of these 11 paragraphs, I was not on site during the testing, so my 12 knowledge of the photographs relates to Mr. Boehmer 13 showing me the photographs and telling me what's in the 14 photographs. And I would suggest that since he's being 15 deposed, that if you want a truly firsthand account of 16 what's in each photograph, he would certainly be the best 17 source for that. 18 Q I would like to do just a quick run through, 19 but I realize you didn't take them, and you know what he 20 told you. 21 A Yes. 22 Q So if you would -- you can just go from one 23 photo to the next, if I don't stop to ask you a question, 24 if you would say what you believe it represents. 25 A Okay. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 195 1 MS. PONZOLI: And then I guess I would ask 2 Mr. Perko, if you would produce these same photos at 3 Mr. Boehmer's deposition. And, in fact, if it's 4 possible, if you could go ahead and get a set made, 5 at our expense, from the negatives, then we could 6 simply go ahead and have our own? 7 MR. PERKO: We'll certainly try to do that. 8 MS. PONZOLI: Thank you. 9 A The first photograph, number 1, is some canal 10 water that has been dosed with ferric sulfate and allowed 11 to settle. And it shows the canal water with the iron 12 floc in the bottom, the bottle. 13 BY MS. PONZOLI: 14 Q Is that part of the preliminary testing you've 15 referred to several times? 16 A I don't think this was part of the formal 17 testing. It looks to me like they just took this bottle, 18 and they put some material that they had been doing some 19 testing with, and took a photograph to show that the floc 20 in fact was separating out. 21 The second photograph is a picture of the 22 monitoring the sampling enclosure at the first farm that 23 we worked at, the Sugar Cane Growers Co-op main farm. 24 The sampling structure has the number 923 on it. 25 Q I'm sorry. That's where the water comes in? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 196 1 A This would be their early base-line sampling 2 structure. 3 Q Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not connecting. So we 4 would find that same number, 923, on some of our tables 5 and charts, if we were to look for it? 6 A I'm not sure, but I think we would. 7 Q It looks like there's a number that might match 8 a similar number, but it's not on that chart. 9 MR. PERKO: There it is (indicating). 10 Q So that number will match what's called? 11 A It's just identified here as Sugar Cane Growers 12 Cooperative, but it is looking at the acreage -- at least 13 that's the identifier that's recognized as the 1440-acre 14 farm. 15 Q This is under the -- called the station? 16 A Sugar Cane Growers station number. 923, then, 17 relates to a South Florida Water Management District 18 permit number. 19 Q Thank you. 20 A The third photograph is a picture of one of the 21 pumps at the first farm, the Sugar Cane Growers 22 Cooperative farm? 23 Q Now, that pump would belong to the co-op, is 24 that accurate? 25 A As far as I know, it's there pump, yes. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 197 1 Q Okay. 2 A The fourth photograph shows kind of a setup of 3 the microfiltration train. And, again, this is at the 4 first site, site 633? 5 Q When you say the train, you mean the way -- the 6 run of the equipment? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Dr. Shannon, if you actually could turn these 9 this way, I guess the other lawyers down the table could 10 see them, too. 11 A I'm sorry. This shows the -- I believe this 12 was the tank that we pumped water out of canal into this 13 tank (indicating). Then it flowed through here 14 (indicating). The chemical was added between this tank 15 and this tank (indicating). This is what we called the 16 flocculation tank that we tested (indicating). This is 17 our chemical feed tank right here (indicating). We fed 18 our ferric sulfate from this tank (indicating). And then 19 the material after the chemical addition was fed to the 20 actual microfiltration device, which was contained in 21 this little module here (indicating). 22 Q Now, is this a portable unit that we're looking 23 at that could move from site to site? 24 A This unit was portable, yes. 25 Q And that handled, what was it, several gallons ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 198 1 a day or an hour, I don't remember? 2 A It's nominal flow rate was two gallons a 3 minute. It's the smallest version of microfiltration. 4 It was designed to do the kind of testing that we did at 5 a small flow rate. 6 Q Okay. 7 A Number 5 is just another photograph of the set 8 up at the first farm that we tested. It shows -- the 9 green line shows the water line coming from the canal. 10 This is a very coarse prefilter to keep any coarse 11 material out of this system like duck weed leaves, large 12 debris, and so on. And then it proceeded from here 13 (indicating) to a holding tank, and this is our chemical 14 feed tank here (indicating). 15 MR. PERKO: If I could, just to prevent later 16 confusion, Dr. Shannon, you referred to this as the 17 first site, number 633 on Exhibit 17 shows that's 18 Flor-Ag? 19 THE WITNESS: That's right. The first site 20 that I'm referring is 923. The Sugar Cane Growers 21 main farm. Flor-Ag is 633. So any reference that I 22 make to 633 is Flor-Ag. 23 MS. PONZOLI: Okay. 24 THE WITNESS: It's one of the problems of 25 having someone who wasn't at the site describing the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 199 1 photographs, I think. 2 BY MS. PONZOLI: 3 Q So we're looking at photos from both setups? 4 A Both sites, yes. Photograph number 6 was just 5 a shot of the flocculation tank that we placed in the 6 line. And some of our tests we looked at, whether we 7 needed supplemental flocculation before we went to 8 microfiltration. And this is a polymer feed system right 9 beside the tank. 10 Q Dr. Shannon, if I were to compare the photos 11 that we're very certain were taken at the 923 co-op site 12 versus the 633 Flor-Ag site, will the microfiltration 13 equipment be set up essentially identically? 14 A Yes, it was. 15 Q Okay. 16 A Photograph number 7 shows the setup, I believe, 17 at Flor-Ag. And it's taken from the microfiltration unit 18 back towards the flocculation tank and the feed tank, and 19 it shows one of our technologists, Mr. Van Dokas, in the 20 picture. 21 Q This is flocculation tank, this is the chemical 22 tank? 23 A That's the polymer feed tank (indicating). 24 This is the chemical feed tank here (indicating). 25 Q And this is measuring the flow from the South ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 200 1 Florida Water Management District, and they take water 2 samples from these also? 3 A No. The sampler is actually in there. 4 Q The sampler is actually in there, but they do 5 measure the flow through this? 6 A They have calibrated the pumps, and there are 7 logs kept on the pumps when they're on, and so on, and 8 what discharge they have across them. And for any flow 9 event, they can determine how much water was pumped. 10 Q But that's not housed within this unit? 11 A There may be some interface between the pumps 12 and this unit because many of these installations, they 13 don't initiate sampling until there is an actual pump 14 event occurring. So the start-up of a pump will 15 initially initiate sampling. 16 Q Okay. 17 A This, photograph number 8, is -- shows the 18 pumps at site number 923. 19 Q These are the pumps that the farm will use to 20 control the water level within that field, is that 21 accurate? 22 A These are the pumps that will be used to pump 23 water out of the main canal into -- out -- sorry. Out of 24 the main farm canal into one of the outlying canals to 25 control water levels within the farm. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 201 1 Q Do they go both directions, the pumps? Can 2 they pump in or pump out? 3 A Some farms their pumps can go both directions. 4 Many cases the farm relies on just gravity flow through 5 the culverts underneath the pump station to get the 6 irrigation water back in. 7 Q So in other words, he worries about getting 8 water onto his land, but he will depend upon gravity to 9 get it off, is that accurate? 10 A No. 11 Q It's the reverse? 12 A It's the reverse. 13 Q Okay. 14 A Many cases irrigation is provided by gravity 15 flow from the canals, and water that is pumped off the 16 farm, or out of the farm is by -- is through a pump 17 structure. 18 Photograph number 9 shows three jars sitting on 19 top of the microfiltration unit. And the jars are 20 labeled raw, which in this case is the feed water from 21 the canal before any chemical addition. The second jar 22 shows the filtrates. So this would be the treated water 23 from the microfiltration unit. And then the third jar is 24 labeled backwash. So any solids or ferric phosphate that 25 was removed from the influent water or the raw water ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 202 1 would be shown in the backwash. 2 Q Looks appropriately yucky. 3 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 4 MS. PONZOLI: There's no question. How can you 5 object, no question. 6 A The photograph number 10 shows the 7 microfiltration unit setup at the site 923. It's just a 8 closeup of the actual microfiltration module itself. 9 Number 11 shows -- it's just another view of 10 the microfiltration unit. And I believe it's at the same 11 site as the previous photograph. 12 Number 12 is -- this shows another number here, 13 927, beside the flow monitoring station. 14 BY MS. PONZOLI: 15 Q This is the smoking gun. 16 A This would be a good item to clarify with 17 Mr. Boehmer. Because when they first went down there, 18 there was some question of what site they should set up 19 at first. This may have been another site, but we didn't 20 collect any data from this site. 21 Q That was not used? 22 A Yes, that's a possibility. I'm afraid that I 23 can't provide the clarification on that, but it's site 24 927 clearly indicated in the photograph, and I'm just 25 trying to find 927 on our list here. (Perusing ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 203 1 document.) 2 I don't see it on the 46 farms, but that 3 clearly says 927. I really cannot explain that. 4 Q That's fine. It has a co-op symbol on it. 5 A Yes. And it looks a lot like 923. 6 Q But it's clearly a 7? 7 A Yes. I don't know. 8 Q We'll worry about it later. 9 A This photograph number 13 is a shot of the 10 pumps at a site, which I would initially assume was 923, 11 but I'm not so sure now. 12 Q What are the drums? Do you have any knowledge 13 what drums are doing that are floating in the water? 14 A I'm not sure what the function of the drums 15 are. I could only speculate. 16 Q The aquatic vegetation seems to be on one side. 17 You don't have any experience with what these drums do? 18 A I would think they're there to retain this 19 accumulated vegetation in an area where it can be 20 controlled. In other words, if there's irrigation, the 21 drums would probably prevent this from flowing back into 22 the farm. There's a bar screen here, or a trash rack, 23 it's called, so I think they're here to keep the floating 24 vegetation, which, in this case, looks like it could be 25 duck weed between the drums and the trash rack. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 204 1 Number 14 is another shot showing raw feed 2 water, filtrate, and backwash, although you can't see the 3 word "backwash" on the third jar. But it's similar to 4 the previous photograph, and I assume this one is at a 5 different site. 6 Number 15 is a photograph showing feed water in 7 the feed tank for the microfiltration unit. This would 8 be water that came out of the canal, been pumped out of 9 the canal. 10 Q Before it's been treated or anything? 11 A Before it's been treated, yes. 12 Number 16 is, again, a photograph from the 13 other side of a canal showing the setup of -- at the -- 14 showing the setup of the microfiltration unit, and it 15 also explains why we may have two different numbers, 16 there are two different boxes there. 17 Q One may belong to one farm and one to the 18 other? 19 A I'm not sure, but I'm sure Kevin Boehmer could 20 clarify that. 21 Q Fine. Do you know what this apparatus sticking 22 out in the water is? 23 A It has something to do with the sensor, sensing 24 water level for the sampler in the pump station. 25 Q Okay. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 205 1 A One possible explanation for the two different 2 numbers here is that this may in fact be a sampler that 3 was moved from another site to assist in our program. 4 But, again, that's -- I'm not certain on that statement. 5 Number 17 is a photograph showing one of the 6 sensors that has something to do with the sampler in the 7 pump station. This shows the location in the canal. 8 Number 18 is very similar to number 17. 9 Q Going back to number 17, Dr. Shannon, is that 10 the depth of the water? That gauge that's to the right. 11 A This would be a staff gauge. It appears to be 12 calibrated in feet. And I believe it shows feet above 13 sea level, or it may also be the depth above the bottom 14 of the canal. I'd have to ask the operators how they 15 calibrated that. It could be depth of canal. 16 Q Is this staff gauge used to determine when 17 farmers pump and don't pump? 18 A Some operations may rely on the staff gauge, 19 yes. This particular site, here, I believe has an 20 electronic read out of what the level is. This is just a 21 visual check for pump operators and so on. 22 Q Maybe even a historic artifact? You don't 23 know? 24 A I don't want to comment. 25 Q You don't want to comment. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 206 1 A I don't know whether it's a historic artifact 2 or not. 3 This figure number 19 is a photograph of -- 4 looks from the back end of a microfiltration unit. 5 That's not clear to me which site this is set up at. 6 Figure 20 is another closeup view of the 7 microfiltration unit. 8 Figure 21 is another view of a microfiltration 9 closeup. I believe these last previous photographs have 10 just shown the unit from front, back, top, and from each 11 side. 12 Figure 22 shows the unit from the front, 13 showing the little control panel. 14 Q Is Memcor American made? 15 A Memcor has an office in Maryland, and it is -- 16 as far as I know, the units are manufactured in the 17 United States. The company does have some connections 18 with an Australian company. 19 Photograph number 23 shows a discharge from one 20 of the stations. This is probably the first farm we did 21 our testing at, and this would be during a pumping event. 22 So this would be the discharge from the pumps. 23 Photograph number 24 shows another view of that 24 same pump, I believe, discharging. 25 Photograph number 25 is -- also explains the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 207 1 923 and the 927. The two different locations. They're 2 right side by side. 3 Q What you had surmised that one was placed next 4 to the other? 5 A Yes. And shows a setup of the microfiltration 6 unit. Also shows the rain gauge at the site. 7 Figure 26 is another shot of along the train of 8 the microfiltration unit, taken from head end to tail 9 end, showing Mr. Dokas in the picture again. 10 Figure 27 shows the setup of the unit at -- I'm 11 not sure what site this is, but I think it's the Flor-Ag 12 site. And it's just a view from across the canal. 13 Number 28 is a picture of Flor-Ag pumping 14 station. 15 29 is the -- from within the farm view of the 16 pumping station. So this is the pumping station I 17 believe from the suction side. 18 Number 30 is a view of the microfiltration set 19 up at the Flor-Ag site, site number 633. 20 Number 31 is another view of the 21 microfiltration at the same site, 633. 22 And number 32 shows essentially the same 23 information -- or the same content as the previous 24 photograph, only it's taken from a little farther back. 25 Number 33 shows the interior of the -- one of ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 208 1 the automatic sampling locations at site 923. 2 Q Do you have any idea what this equipment costs, 3 Dr. Shannon? 4 A I have an idea. I've heard some numbers. I 5 would say that setting up this equipment at each site, 6 the samplers, the interface with the pump stations and so 7 on is somewhere in the order of 10 to $15,000. 8 Q And they need one -- how frequently does a farm 9 need to have such a sampling station? 10 A Every one of the farms participating in the 11 early base line, to my knowledge, has one of these 12 installations. 13 Q No matter what size? 14 A There may be some of the farms that -- the 15 smaller operations that do not have automatic sampling, 16 but my knowledge of the co-op farms is that every one of 17 these has a sampling installation, and there is a farm 18 here as small as 180 acres, which is a very small farm. 19 Q Right. But it just seems to me, here's one 20 that's 2500 acres, he would have a single sampling 21 station? 22 A Yes. Each one of these farms has a single 23 discharge location. 24 Q Oh, so they're only required to -- 25 A Yes. Have one per discharge location. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 209 1 Q And you just assume that your total discharge 2 matches what that sampling station produced, is that the 3 way it works? 4 A Excuse me. I wasn't listening. 5 Q You're presumed to have what that one sampling 6 station shows for your permit? 7 A Yes. At that sampling location, there's two 8 key components that are required to calculate loadings. 9 One is the phosphorus concentration data that would be 10 collected from these samples from the automatic 11 particular sampler, and then the flow data from the pumps 12 themselves. 13 Q I'm not trying to increase the farmer's burden. 14 That's not the gist of my question. It just seems to me 15 that it makes the data you obtain somewhat less accurate 16 if a 2500-acre farm has a single sampling station, and a 17 180-acre farm has a single sampling station? 18 A No. I think -- 19 Q You don't think so? 20 A No; I don't. And if I could explain why. 21 Q I would appreciate knowing. 22 A This farm that you referred to, the 2500-acre 23 farm -- 24 Q Right. 25 A -- would still have a single discharge ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 210 1 location. There would be one pumping station for that 2 farm. The 180-acre farm would have one pumping station. 3 And all of the water from that 2500-acre farm would exit 4 through one main pumping station. And the same thing in 5 the 180-acre farm. So the sampler would be -- location 6 would be located in the middle of the canal, it would be 7 taking it's sample from the middle of the canal. In each 8 case they collect composite samples. So whenever the 9 pump is running, the sampler collects samples at certain 10 prespecified interval, and then composites those samples. 11 Q A single -- I'm not arguing. There's really no 12 point here to be argued over. It's confusing to me that 13 a 2500-acre farm could be drained from a single pumping 14 station, but that's the way you say it works? 15 A Yes, yes. There are in fact farms -- in our 16 case, Flor-Ag was, I believe, the largest farm -- 17 Q 6,000? 18 A No. There's another Flor-Ag farm that was 19 6,000, but our -- the farm that we've discussed at some 20 length in the deposition, the Flor-Ag hot spot, was 5700 21 acres. That's served by one pumping station. 22 Figure number 34 is a shot of the trash rack. 23 I believe this is at the Flor-Ag site with a couple of 24 unidentified people fishing near it. 25 Q I thought they were fishing. I thought no, no. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 211 1 They must be doing something scientific. 2 A No; they're not fishing. They're not fishing. 3 I'm not sure what they're doing here. Mr. Boehmer can 4 probably provide you clarification on this one. I think 5 what he's doing is placing a sample line ahead of the 6 trash rack. 7 Number 35 is another shot looking down the main 8 canal of the farm. And I believe this is at the Flor-Ag 9 site. So this is looking from the pumping station down 10 the main canal of that farm. 11 Number 36 is a photograph of -- again, of the 12 microfiltration setup, and shows the two sampling boxes, 13 again, at site number 923. 14 37 is a shot of our -- one of our people, 15 Mr. Dokas, doing some -- I'm not sure what he's doing 16 here, but he's got a portable phosphate meter and pH 17 meter set up in the back of the truck, and he's obviously 18 preparing to do some sort of an analysis. 19 38 is -- shows the pump station at site 923, I 20 believe. 21 39 shows site 923 with the number 927 box, but 22 you can see part of the 923 box here, too. 23 Another shot of microfiltration unit at site 24 923. 25 Another shot of microfiltration unit at site ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 212 1 923, and this is photograph 41. It shows Mr. Lozier. 2 He's the gentleman with the ball cap on who is from our 3 Gainesville office. And also shows Mr. Vickers with 4 the -- standing beside Mr. Lozier. Mr. Vickers is from 5 Memcor. 6 Site 42 is a shot down the canal at one of the 7 sites. I'm not sure whether it's 923 or 633. This shows 8 looking down the main canal. 9 And 43 shows the shot of the staff gauge. And 10 I believe this is the sampling location for the automatic 11 sampler at one of the sites, either 923 or 633. 12 MS. PONZOLI: Thank you, Dr. Shannon. I'd like 13 to take a lunch break. I have, Mr. Perko, a couple 14 of documents I want to decide if I want to use after 15 lunch, and I want to see if I can find an 16 appropriate version of EES Number 12, and I need to 17 do Dr. Shannon's CV, and I'll be finished. 18 MR. PERKO: Okay. 19 (Luncheon recess.) 20 (Deposition Exhibits 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24 21 marked for identification.) 22 BY MS. PONZOLI: 23 Q Dr. Shannon, I asked you a similar question 24 earlier, but I'd like to ask you this question along the 25 same line. How does load off of the farm correlate to ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 213 1 load out of the EAA? I think my former question had gone 2 to concentration, but it was a similar concept. But I 3 would like to know. Shall I need to repeat the question? 4 A No. I understand the question. 5 Q Right. 6 A Theoretically, the sum of all the individual 7 loads from farm pumping operations within the EAA over a 8 given period of time should be comparable to the total 9 loads from the EAA. There may be some loss of phosphorus 10 and sedimentation in the canals or some other mechanism, 11 but overall there should be a correlation between the 12 farm -- some of the farm loads and some of the total 13 loads through the EAA through the major pumping stations. 14 Q Well, you've said the magic word 15 "theoretically"? 16 A Theoretically. 17 Q On the load, it could go up or down from what 18 you're saying, the relationship of what has been reduced 19 off the farm to what would be reduced out of the EAA, 20 could be even further reduced by some left in the canals, 21 is that what you're indicating? 22 A If you were just considering loads from farming 23 operations and there were no other sources, and the only 24 contributors within the EAA were pumping operations 25 within the EAA, then those loads should agree fairly ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 214 1 closely. With the expectation that maybe the summation 2 of the on-farm loads is slightly higher than what comes 3 out of the EAA. 4 Q What are those other potential sources within 5 the EAA? 6 A Well, based on my knowledge of other sources, 7 and information presented at SAGE, there are municipal 8 waste water treatment plants within the EAA that have, at 9 times, discharged to surface water within the EAA. Some 10 of these plants are now going to deep well disposal, but 11 my understanding of that also is that's been interrupted 12 due to some problems with the deep wells. So that's one 13 source, municipal waste water treatment plants. 14 The second source is urban runoff from 15 communities like Clewiston, and Belle Glade, Pahokee, 16 although Pahokee's, I believe, urban runoff would flow 17 into the lake. So primarily Clewiston, Belle Glade, and 18 South Bay. 19 Q How about sugar mills? 20 A And just a clarification on Clewiston. The 21 majority of its runoff would probably be in the S4 water 22 shed, which goes to the lake. 23 Q How about sugar mills, Dr. Shannon? 24 A Sugar mills, based on information I've seen at 25 SAGE for U.S. Sugar mills, are also a potential point ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 215 1 source of phosphorus. 2 Q While we're still talking, theoretically, have 3 you done or do you intend to do any probability analysis 4 of the relationship between loads off the farm and loads 5 out of the EAA? 6 A We plan on taking the early base-line data and 7 looking at the summated loadings from those operations 8 and comparing those to the loads from the Everglades 9 agricultural -- total loads from Everglades Agricultural 10 Area for corresponding periods of time. One factor there 11 that we won't be able to account for are the farms that 12 weren't part of the early base-line monitoring program. 13 Q So you would be taking two-thirds of the 14 information and having to push it to cover all? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And you're going to do this for concentration 17 and load, is that right? You're going to do the 18 probability analysis for what you would expect to see? 19 A I'm not sure I can commit to doing a 20 probability analysis at this stage, but we will be trying 21 to do a -- some sort of analysis that would show a 22 correlation or attempt to show a correlation between 23 loadings and concentrations. 24 Q I'm going to hand you some documents that I'd 25 just like you to identify and tell me what they are. The ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 216 1 first one is a composite of several -- probably several 2 documents, if you would maybe by bates number. I'll 3 leave it as a single Exhibit Number 20, but if you could, 4 by bates number, tell me what that composite exhibit 5 consists of? 6 A This Exhibit Number 20 consists of primarily 7 work sheets, calculation sheets from Kevin Boehmer's 8 file. And he was assembling some of the cost information 9 and acreages served by various STAs. There are a number 10 of calculations, and they're all due to Kevin Boehmer. 11 And I'm going by the handwriting. I recognize his 12 handwriting. 13 There is one -- and I'll give you the page 14 number here, DES number. DES number 0001319, and 15 0001320, and 1321 are estimation sheets for some 16 structural work that would be associated with the 17 microfiltration facility. And these estimates were made 18 by a gentleman named Young Ro, and his name is at the 19 bottom of page 1319. He's one of our structural 20 engineers. 21 Q Thank you. I'm going to hand you EES Number 22 21. 23 A This was a document that I referred to 24 yesterday where I had referred to the Info Tech 25 information on phosphorus loadings over the period 1979 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 217 1 to '92 from S5, S6, S7, and S8 pumping stations. 2 Q It indicates as doing a comparison between 3 Tetra Tech and South Florida Water Management District, 4 is that what the top of the page indicates? I can't 5 remember? 6 A It indicates there is a comparison between 7 Tetra Tech and South Florida Water Management District 8 data, but I don't think it's really a comparison. I 9 interpret this as all the solid-line data is water 10 management district data, and then Tetra Tech has added 11 on a period of extrapolation here. 12 Q I couldn't see two lines either, and I thought, 13 well, are we looking at something that was in color, and 14 now you can't see the other line. But you think only the 15 dotted line reflects the Tetra Tech data? 16 A I believe so. I have not seen another version 17 of this. I haven't seen a colored version if one does in 18 fact exist. 19 Q And the same thing for the other pages? 20 A Yes. I interpret this as a period that's 21 either been added from actual additional information or 22 it's been extrapolated by Tetra Tech. 23 Q Just for my information, what is that data 24 supposed to reflect? 25 A The data reflects phosphorus loading, over ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 218 1 time. Actually written kilograms on the front page here. 2 This axes wasn't identified. 3 Q Oh, you wrote it in. That's your handwriting. 4 A Yes. 5 Q I hand you EES Number 22 and ask you what that 6 is? 7 A This is some data that was sent to me. It was 8 from Mr. Ward at the co-op, and it was sent in early 9 September of '93, summarizing land-use acreages for sugar 10 cane. I believe there's information on vegetables and 11 sod in here, and some tables giving various acreages for 12 different types of vegetables, and for sugar cane, 13 pasture, and sod for the EAA, and some graphs of this 14 information. My understanding of these graphs were 15 produced by Mr. Green at Hopping Boyd Green & Sams. 16 Q What was the purpose of your having this 17 information, Dr. Shannon? 18 A We made absolutely no use of this information 19 in any of our analysis. It was provided for our 20 information. I've looked at it, but we haven't used any 21 of this information. 22 Q I hand you EES Number 23. 23 A Yes. This is a letter from Dr. Richardson at 24 Duke Wetlands Center. The letter is addressed to 25 Earl Shannon, and it indicates that a number of recent ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 219 1 publications regarding their work on the Everglades 2 research project were attached. 3 Q Was that his Duke wetlands report in '93? Was 4 that one of the attachments, do you recall, or is it 5 referenced there? I can't remember. 6 A No. The attachments -- and I assume they were 7 produced. But they were published papers, papers that 8 had been published in journals. 9 Q Was that the Kraft and Richardson articles, and 10 perhaps the Rader article, I can remember? 11 A I would have to refer to the attachments, but 12 there were at least two articles with Kraft and 13 Richardson were indicated as authors, and there were 14 maybe three or four actual publications attached to this. 15 Q I recall seeing, among your documents, at least 16 two by Kraft and Richardson, and I think Rader's 17 macroinvertebrate article, and I don't recall the fourth 18 one. Did you read those publications? 19 A Yes, I reviewed them to the extent that I read 20 the abstract and quickly looked through them. I didn't 21 do what would be called an in-depth review of these. 22 Q May I ask you -- there's a reference there 23 to -- what I think you had told me previously that 24 Dr. Richardson doesn't use, you said, to the best of your 25 recollection, a settling rate. He references storage ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 220 1 rate of grams per meters squared for years. Is that -- 2 A Yes. This is consistent with what I mentioned 3 yesterday that he tends to express the phosphorus 4 assimilation capacity of a wetland, if we want to use 5 that term, as so many units of phosphorus per unit area 6 per year. And I think he has used a number here that 7 indicates that he still is continuing to do that. 8 Q Did you read and analyze that particular 9 information? I assume it was included in his materials. 10 A This number is quite consistent with the range 11 of values that he presented at his SAGE presentation. I 12 don't think it differs that much so I didn't really pay 13 any attention. Other than that, it seemed to be in the 14 same sort of range of values that he had been talking 15 about at SAGE. 16 Q Let me ask you this, Dr. Shannon. I have heard 17 in different versions at different times of comparison of 18 Dr. Walker's settling rate and Dr. Richardson's -- is it 19 assimilation of phosphorus, is that the appropriate term? 20 A I'm not sure -- he would call that -- I think 21 he'd probably call it nutrient retention capacity or 22 phosphorus retention capacity. The term "assimilation" 23 is one that I've used. 24 Q I've heard different versions of comparisons 25 between Dr. Richardson's phosphorus retention capacity ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 221 1 and Dr. Walker's settling rate, and their estimations of 2 how much acreage would be necessary to handle certain 3 flows and certain amounts of phosphorus coming through 4 those flows. My question is: have you ever done some 5 mental comparison between the two? 6 A No; I have not. 7 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 8 A I've found it to be a source of confusion in 9 using the two different methods. And not being a wetland 10 expert, or profess to have any specific expertise in this 11 wetland area, you know, I can't really say what is the 12 best way, what is the best method of expressing the 13 retention capacity of a wetland area for phosphorus. 14 Q That's not really my question. My question 15 goes more to if you had done some comparison, or to 16 whatever degree you may have done a comparison, do you 17 see Dr. Richardson and Dr. Walker as being that far 18 apart? 19 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 20 A Well, Dr. Richardson did do his calculations of 21 what is nutrient retention or phosphorus retention 22 numbers met in terms of the amount of acreage that would 23 be required for STAs, and he did that at SAGE, and his 24 acreages were considerably higher than Dr. Walker's, I 25 think at least two times, or something in that order. So ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 222 1 I would say that's the comparison between the two 2 methods. 3 Q You know, I accept your answer, certainly, and 4 I'm aware of that fact. There had been some more careful 5 comparisons that certain people have made who have 6 indicated that they are not that far apart, and I was 7 just curious, had you made that kind of comparison and 8 come to a conclusion that they really are very far apart 9 or really aren't very far apart. But it sounds as though 10 you've pretty much accepted their bottom-line positions 11 on acreage as their positions. 12 A Yes. I would say in answer to your questions, 13 are they far apart, I would say, yes, they are far apart. 14 Q They are what they are. I'm going to hand you 15 EES Number 24. 16 A Yes. This consists of two tables -- actually 17 four tables of showing pump volumes from Everglades 18 Agricultural Area four different major structures, S-5A, 19 S6, S7, and S8, for the period of -- I believe these are 20 for periods in 1992. Actually, there's some data for -- 21 well, it's all 1992 data. From January '92 to December 22 '92. That's the first page has data for '92, the second 23 page has data for those same locations for 1993. And we 24 received this information from Mr. Ward at the Sugar Cane 25 Growers Cooperative. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 223 1 Q Did you make any use of this data? 2 A Yes, we did. 3 Q And that was incorporated in what? 4 A We used this data in exhibit (perusing 5 documents) -- in Exhibit 15. And also some of the 6 calculations from the Exhibit 15 were used in Exhibit 11. 7 Q Dr. Shannon, I don't think I've asked you this 8 question, but let me just make sure: have you done 9 evaluations of Dr. Richardson's work at the Duke Wetlands 10 Center? 11 A I have seen many of his progress reports, I 12 have read most of the progress reports, I've reviewed, to 13 the extent that I mentioned previously, many of his 14 technical publications, but I wouldn't say I've done any 15 thorough review or critique of his work. 16 Q Well, do you understand what you believe his 17 work to show? 18 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 19 Q Let me reword that. Could you summarize for 20 me, Dr. Shannon, what you believe Dr. Richardson's work 21 from the Duke Wetlands Center shows? 22 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 23 A Dr. Richardson is working on a number of areas. 24 And the area that I've reviewed is the area where he is 25 predicting the phosphorus retention capacity of wetlands. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 224 1 That's the one that I've paid any attention to amongst 2 the work he's done. He's done dosing studies, he's done 3 a number of other studies. I don't think I could even 4 name the various aspects he's involved. But I've paid 5 more attention to the work that he's doing on predicting 6 nutrient -- or phosphorus retention capacity of wetland 7 areas. 8 Q Forgive me if I've asked this question before, 9 but do you think that his estimate of phosphorus 10 retention capacity is accurate? 11 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 12 Q Does the word "accurate" bother you? I want to 13 know what your evaluation of that work is, so I can 14 reword it if you like. 15 A I can answer my evaluation of his work. I feel 16 that Dr. Richardson is a very credible wetland 17 scientist -- 18 Q Certainly. 19 A -- and he's done some -- some pioneering 20 studies on the Everglades wetlands, and his 21 interpretation of that information would indicate that 22 wetland systems; i.e., STAs, will probably not perform as 23 well as others are predicting using the settling rate 24 criterion. 25 Q Dr. Walker in particular? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 225 1 A Dr. Walker and the SWIM Plan settling rate, 2 which I believe was done by Dr. Fontaine. 3 Q And do you have an opinion on whether or not 4 you think Dr. Richardson is right, that these STAs will 5 not perform as well as others are predicting? 6 MR. PERKO: I'm going to object to this line of 7 questioning. Dr. Shannon has already indicated that 8 this is outside his area of expertise. 9 Q You may answer, Dr. Shannon. 10 A The answer is I'm not sure who has the right 11 number here for wetland systems. Dr. Richardson has not 12 done a pilot wetland project. 13 Q How did I know this was coming. 14 A And neither has Dr. Walker or the water 15 management district. So recognizing my own limitations 16 in this area of wetlands, I'm not sure who has the right 17 number on sizing the wetland system. 18 Q Let me ask you on pilot studies, Dr. Shannon. 19 Why don't you consider all of the other wetland treatment 20 systems, whose data bases have been used in evaluating 21 whether STAs will work, why don't you consider those 22 pilot studies, so to speak, for the STAs? 23 MR. PERKO: Object to form. 24 Q Do you understand the question? 25 A Yes, I do. Now, if I can just maybe give a ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 226 1 little background before I answer it. At SAGE there were 2 a number of experts in the wetlands area that made 3 presentations to SAGE, including Dr. Kadlic, and 4 Dr. Ramesh Reddy, and Dr. Richardson; and Dr. Kadlic, in 5 particular, spent a lot of his presentation on the 6 results of other studies, really, in North America, and 7 maybe even had some worldwide information, and there's 8 been a lot of work done on wetlands. But when it got 9 down to which wetlands or what wetlands proj