1
1 DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, STATE OF FLORIDA
2
SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE )
3 OF FLORIDA; ROTH FARMS, INC.; and)
WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC., )
4 Petitioners, ) DOAH Case No.
vs. ) 92-3038
5 )
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
6 DISTRICT, an agency of the State )
of Florida; et al., )
7 Respondents. )
_________________________________
8 FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC..;)
UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; )
9 and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC., )
Petitioners, ) DOAH Case No.
10 ) 92-3039
vs. )
11 )
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
12 DISTRICT, an agency of the State )
of Florida; et al., )
13 Respondents. )
_________________________________
14 FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE )
ASSOCIATION; LEWIS POPE FARMS; )
15 W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., )
and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., )
16 Petitioners, ) DOAH Case No.
) 92-3040
17 vs. )
)
18 SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
DISTRICT, an agency of the State )
19 of Florida; et al., )
Respondents. )
20 _________________________________
DEPOSITION OF MORRIS ROSEN
21 Taken before Barbara Bolton,
Registered Professional Reporter and Notary
22 Public in and for the State of Florida at large,
pursuant to Notice of Taking Deposition filed in
23 the above cause.
- - -
24 Thursday, March 4, 1993
319 Clematis Street
25 West Palm Beach, Florida
9:10 A.M. - 5:35 P.M.
2
1 - - -
APPEARANCES:
2
3 ON BEHALF OF THE SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE
OF FLORIDA, ROTH FARMS, INC., and WEDGWORTH
4 FARMS, INC.:
5 HOPPING, BOYD, GREEN & SAMS, ESQUIRES
123 S. CALHOUN STREET
6 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32314
BY: GARY V. PERKO, ESQUIRE
7
8 ON BEHALF OF THE RESPONDENT
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT:
9
POPHAM, HAIK, SCHNOBRICH & KAUFMAN, LTD.
10 4100 ONE CENTRUST FINANCIAL CENTER
100 S.E. SECOND STREET
11 MIAMI, FLORIDA 33131
BY: PAUL L. NETTLETON, ESQUIRE
12
13 ON BEHALF OF THE INTERVENOR, UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
14
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
15 155 SOUTH MIAMI AVENUE
SUITE 700
16 MIAMI, FLORIDA 33130
BY: MAUREEN DONLAN, ESQUIRE
17
Also present: Curtis D. Pollman, Vice President
18 KBN Engineering and Applied
Sciences, Inc.
19
20 I N D E X
21 WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
22 MORRIS ROSEN
23 BY MR. PERKO 4
24
25
3
1 E X H I B I T S
2 PLAINTIFF'S
NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
3
1 SYNOPSIS OF RESUME OF MORRIS ROSEN 5
4
2 NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION 72
5
3 LAB MANUAL 76
6
4 SEMI-ANNUAL LABORATORY STATUS
7 REPORT DATED 8/20/82 125
8 5 SEMI-ANNUAL LABORATORY STATUS REPORT
DATED JANUARY 1, 1983 TO JUNE 30,
9 1983 129
10 6 MEMORANDUM DATED NOVEMBER 18, 1983
TO MORRIS ROSEN FROM LOUIS A. TOTH 139
11
7 PRELIMINARY REPORT ON THE EFFECT OF
12 AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF ON THE PERIPHYTIC
ALGAE OF CONSERVATION AREA 1 143
13
8 THE ORIGIN AND CHARACTERISTICS OF
14 GYTTJA IN CONSERVATION AREA 2A 152
15 9 MARSH PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS,
PHOSPHORUS CONTENT AND SPECIES
16 COMPOSITION OF EVERGLADES PERIPHYTON
COMMUNITIES 154
17
10 MEMORANDUM DATED AUGUST 4, 1978 TO
18 MORRIS ROSEN FROM DAVID R. SWIFT 162
19 11 MEMORANDUM DATED MARCH 27, 1975 TO
DIRECTOR, ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES
20 FROM MORRIS ROSEN 164
21 12 MEMORANDUM DATED APRIL 3, 1979 TO
FRED DAVIS FROM MORRIS ROSEN 166
22
13 SEMI-ANNUAL LABORATORY STATUS REPORT
23 DATED JULY-DECEMBER 1982 176
24 14 SAMPLING PROGRAM FOR USING UPLAND
MARSH TO CONTROL WATER QUALITY 181
25
4
1 - - -
2 P R O C E E D I N G S
3 - - -
4 THEREUPON,
5 MORRIS ROSEN,
6 being by the undersigned Notary Public first duly
7 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
8 THE WITNESS: I do.
9 DIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. PERKO:
11 Q. Would you please state your name for
12 the record, sir?
13 A. Morris Rosen.
14 Q. And where are you currently
15 employed, Mr. Rosen?
16 A. At the South Florida Water
17 Management District.
18 Q. And what is your current position?
19 A. Staff Planner.
20 Q. And what division do you work in?
21 A. Well, currently I'm on temporary
22 assignment to the Office of Counsel.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. My regular assignment is Lower
25 District Planning.
5
1 Q. Who do you report to?
2 A. Abe Cooper and Jackie Birch.
3 Q. Okay. Mr. Rosen, have you ever been
4 deposed before?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. My name is Gary Perko. I'm
7 an attorney for the Sugar Cane Growers
8 Cooperative of Florida, Roth Farms and Wedgworth
9 Farms who are petitioners in the administrative
10 challenge of the Everglades SWIM Plan. I'm going
11 to be asking you a few questions about your
12 anticipated testimony in this proceeding as well
13 as other knowledge you may have that is relevant
14 to the issues in the case. If you don't
15 understand my question, please tell me and I'll
16 try to rephrase it. If you ever feel like you
17 need to have a break, just let me know and we'll
18 take a break, get a drink of water, whatever you
19 need.
20 MR. PERKO: First of all, I'd like
21 to have the court reporter mark this as Exhibit
22 Number 1.
23 (Plaintiff's Exhibit Rosen-1 is
24 marked for identification.)
25 BY MR. PERKO:
6
1 Q. Mr. Rosen, I show you what's been
2 marked as Exhibit Number 1. Are you familiar
3 with this document?
4 A. Yes, it's my resume or curriculum
5 vitae.
6 Q. Is that a current resume?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Is it complete to your knowledge?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. When did you prepare this resume?
11 A. Several months ago.
12 Q. I see on your resume here that you
13 graduated from the University of Connecticut in
14 1963. Is that correct?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. And your major was in Botany?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. With a minor in Chemistry?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What particular aspects of botany
21 did you concentrate on?
22 A. Plant physiology.
23 Q. What type of plants?
24 A. Well, just general plant
25 physiology. I was not a specialist in any
7
1 particular taxonomic category.
2 Q. Once you left the University of
3 Connecticut you moved on to the Peace Corps. Is
4 that correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And you were there from 1963 to
7 1965?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. What did you do after you left the
10 Peace Corps?
11 A. I spent some time in the Air Force.
12 Q. And in what capacity?
13 A. I was a photo lab technician.
14 Q. What were your responsibilities as a
15 photo lab technician?
16 A. We did several things. Worked in a
17 photo aerial reconnaissance lab.
18 Q. Did you actually develop
19 photography?
20 A. To some extent, yes. A good part of
21 that time I spent ordering supplies, but I did do
22 some photographic developing, printing and
23 enlarging, running the developing machines. It's
24 been quite a while. I don't remember all the
25 details.
8
1 Q. Do you ever find the experience that
2 you had as a photo lab technician helpful in your
3 current position?
4 A. To a limited extent, yes.
5 Q. In what way?
6 A. Well, let's rephrase that question.
7 When you say current position, what I'm doing for
8 the District now or what I --
9 Q. In your work for the District.
10 A. When I worked for the District? To
11 a very limited extent I provided some laboratory
12 background.
13 Q. Have you done any work for the
14 District with aerial photography?
15 A. I've used the GIS system to some
16 extent.
17 Q. For what purpose?
18 A. For planning purposes.
19 Q. Have you ever examined aerial
20 photography to identify types of vegetation?
21 A. No.
22 Q. You left the Air Force in 1968. Is
23 that correct?
24 A. That's correct.
25 Q. What did you do after that?
9
1 A. I went to work for the General Cigar
2 Corporation in their agricultural lab.
3 Q. And what did you do for the General
4 Cigar Corporation?
5 A. I was a laboratory technician.
6 Q. When you say laboratory technician,
7 what were your responsibilities?
8 A. I did some soil analysis.
9 Q. For what purpose?
10 A. Calibrated soil testing for cigar --
11 or tobacco crops.
12 Q. When you say you did soil analysis,
13 what did you analyze the soils for?
14 A. Phosphorus, potassium, calcium and
15 magnesium.
16 Q. What techniques did you use?
17 A. We used extractions that were
18 locally deemed suitable for determining
19 fertilizer -- extracting available phosphorus
20 from the soils, and we used predetermined data to
21 make a fertilizer recommendation. It's the same
22 processes that they're using, what they call
23 calibrated soil analysis for the BMP's.
24 Q. For the best management practices?
25 A. Yes.
10
1 Q. In the Everglades?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Or rule 40E63?
4 A. Whatever the rule is.
5 Q. What phosphorus concentrations did
6 you typically see in your work for General Cigar
7 Corporation?
8 A. I don't remember.
9 Q. What did you do after you left the
10 General Cigar Corporation?
11 A. I went back to graduate school.
12 Q. And where was that?
13 A. West Virginia University.
14 Q. And what did you -- what was the
15 purpose of your matriculation at West Virginia
16 University?
17 A. I went there to earn a Master's
18 degree in Agronomy.
19 Q. Did you have any specialty in
20 agronomy? Why did you go back to school?
21 A. I decided that if I wanted to
22 advance my career, I'd need more education than
23 just a Bachelor's degree.
24 Q. Did you focus on any particular
25 aspect of agronomy?
11
1 A. Well, my major professor was a
2 forage crops major, but I did have some soils
3 courses and I also minored in chemistry in my
4 Master's degree.
5 Q. Did you have any courses on water
6 quality or water quality sampling?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Did you have any courses on soil
9 sampling?
10 A. I did have some courses on soil
11 morphology where we looked at the soils. I had
12 courses on soil fertility, and in those courses
13 they dealt marginally with how to -- well, in the
14 soil fertility course a soil sampling for
15 purposes of making fertilizer recommendation was
16 discussed.
17 Q. Was the focus of your education to
18 assist farmers in developing fertilizer
19 recommendations for purposes of advising
20 agricultural interests?
21 A. It was more strongly in that
22 direction. It was not an environmental emphasis.
23 Q. Did you do any laboratory analysis
24 while at the West Virginia University?
25 A. Yes, I did.
12
1 Q. What type of analysis did you
2 perform?
3 A. Well, other than the course work
4 that I took which was fairly varied, I worked as
5 a research technician for approximately a year,
6 maybe a little longer, and we analyzed what was
7 called total non-structural carbohydrates in
8 forage samples, grasses and clovers, legumes, and
9 afalfa, that type of sampling.
10 Q. What was the purpose of that work?
11 A. Well, total non-structural
12 carbohydrates are a measure that is useful in
13 determining the quality of the forage with
14 respect to animal feeds, you know, how good a
15 quality animal feed it is so it was a fairly
16 useful test for that purpose.
17 Q. Did you have any experience with
18 analyzing nutrients while at the West Virginia
19 University?
20 A. No. But I did analyze nutrients --
21 well, no. Well, let me back up on that. I'm
22 just thinking about my thesis research. We did
23 do some nutrient analysis on the samples that I
24 worked with. We did total -- kjeldahl nitrogen
25 analysis on those samples.
13
1 Q. Did you actually prepare a thesis
2 for your Master's?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. What was the title of that thesis?
5 A. I don't remember the exact title.
6 Is it listed here?
7 Q. Well, what was the general subject
8 matter?
9 A. I don't remember the exact title but
10 it had to do with intra-specific competition of a
11 forage grass, Timothy.
12 Q. What was the purpose of your thesis?
13 A. To learn how this grass reacted at
14 different planting densities and different
15 fertilizer regimes.
16 Q. Did you do any independent research
17 for your thesis, field work?
18 A. We did have -- well, we had some
19 greenhouse trials where we planted the plants at
20 different spacings and different -- with
21 different amounts of fertilizers. We had a
22 growth chamber study where we did the same thing
23 and we also did a field block study.
24 Q. Was your thesis ever published?
25 A. No, just in thesis form.
14
1 Q. And when did you receive your
2 Master's degree?
3 A. In 1973.
4 Q. What did you do after receipt of
5 your Master's?
6 A. Came to work for the District.
7 Q. And when was that?
8 A. In 1973.
9 Q. What was your first position with
10 the District?
11 A. I don't remember the exact title.
12 The title has changed several times. But I was
13 the soil chemist for the District.
14 Q. Did you have any specific
15 responsibilities as a soil chemist?
16 A. It was to provide analytical
17 services for all the environmental projects that
18 were going on or being started at the District
19 for the non-water samples, for the soil, sediment
20 and plant tissue samples that were coming in.
21 Q. Did you work on specific projects,
22 were you assigned to specific projects or did you
23 receive requests from different project managers?
24 A. I received requests from different
25 project managers and --
15
1 Q. Could you provide me an example of
2 how you would receive a request, what the request
3 would ask you to do?
4 A. Well, they would collect samples in
5 the field, do the early preparations, the drying
6 and bring the samples to the lab. We'd log them
7 in, grind them and do the appropriate analyses on
8 the samples, after some discussion with the
9 project managers to determine what they needed.
10 Q. Do you have any idea of the
11 approximate number of projects you worked on, say
12 in a typical year?
13 A. Well, probably somewhere between a
14 half dozen and a dozen.
15 Q. When you say you took soil samples,
16 in what geographical areas did you take those
17 samples?
18 A. In the -- well, I didn't always
19 collect the sample. I sometimes made
20 recommendations to the project manager on how
21 they should collect their samples and they did
22 the sampling but in water conservation areas, in
23 the bony marsh and a few samples in Okeechobee
24 and the Taylor Creek and Nub and Slough area.
25 Q. How long did you serve as a soil
16
1 chemist for the District?
2 A. Until December of 1986.
3 Q. Approximately thirteen years?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What did you analyze soils for?
6 A. Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium,
7 magnesium, calcium, organic matter, particle size
8 analysis, inorganic carbon, and those were the
9 principal ones. There were probably some others
10 that we did occasionally on request. I don't
11 remember all the details.
12 Q. Do you remember any specific
13 projects that you provided soil analysis for?
14 A. Dave Swift's periphyton study, Steve
15 Davis' various projects.
16 Q. Let's take them one by one. When
17 you say Dave Swift's periphyton study, did that
18 result in a technical publication?
19 A. There is one in the process of being
20 published now.
21 Q. Do you remember the title of that
22 work?
23 A. No, I do not.
24 Q. Where was the -- what was the focus
25 of that study?
17
1 A. To the best of my understanding, Mr.
2 Swift was looking at relationships between
3 periphyton and nutrient levels in the water.
4 Q. And what did your involvement in
5 that study consist of?
6 A. I did the -- provided the analysis
7 of the periphyton samples and soil samples that
8 Mr. Swift collected.
9 Q. Did you actually collect the samples
10 yourself?
11 A. No, I didn't do any of the field
12 work.
13 Q. Do you know where these samples were
14 collected, what geographic area?
15 A. From the three water conservation
16 areas.
17 Q. WCA --
18 A. WCA-1, WCA-2 and WCA-3.
19 Q. Over what period of time?
20 A. I'm not sure. I don't remember
21 exact dates.
22 Q. Could you give me a general idea?
23 Was it in the late seventies?
24 A. It started in the late seventies and
25 I believe it went through 1983.
18
1 Q. You said that data was collected
2 from approximately late seventies until 1983. Is
3 that correct?
4 A. I believe so.
5 Q. Why has it taken so long for the
6 report to be processed?
7 A. Well, there was a technical
8 publication put out after -- shortly after the
9 date it was first collected, but in light of some
10 of the new understanding of the metabolism of
11 periphyton, it was decided to reanalyze the data.
12 Q. When you say new understanding of
13 the metabolism of periphyton, what do you mean?
14 A. I believe that some things have been
15 learned since the original work was done about
16 the relationship of hardness and water pH to the
17 metabolism, so this factor was added to the
18 analysis to see if -- how it affected the
19 relationships.
20 Q. And how did it affect the
21 relationships?
22 A. I believe when areas were segregated
23 according to hardness of the water and pH that
24 some very good correlations that didn't
25 previously show up appeared.
19
1 Q. Correlations between what?
2 A. Statistical correlations between the
3 water chemistry or the water -- the phosphorus
4 levels in the water and the phosphorus levels in
5 the periphyton.
6 Q. Just let me make sure I understand
7 you correctly. When areas were isolated with
8 certain characteristics of hardness or pH, there
9 was a higher correlation between phosphorus
10 content in the water and phosphorus content in
11 the periphyton. Is that correct?
12 MR. NETTLETON: I'm going to object
13 to the form in that just for the record that he's
14 not here to testify about this particular study,
15 and I just want it understood that he's relaying
16 his understanding of someone else's study, so
17 that understood he can go ahead and answer it to
18 the best of his understanding.
19 A. Well, I believe they were not
20 necessarily physically segregated but eliminated
21 from the data set and the statistical analysis
22 was a little better focused.
23 Q. Besides phosphorus, what other water
24 chemistry variables were exumed?
25 A. As I remember, we also did total
20
1 nitrogen and calcium. I don't remember whether
2 we did other analyses or not for that particular
3 set.
4 Q. Who collected the water samples?
5 A. Dave Swift or his technicians.
6 Q. Do you recall who his technicians
7 were?
8 A. At various times he had -- Robert
9 Startzman as a technician, a woman by the name of
10 Suzette Green who is no longer with the District,
11 Dennis Cook who is no longer with the District
12 and one other gentleman who is still with the
13 District, but I can't think of his last name
14 right now.
15 Q. Were water samples for these various
16 parameters collected over the same time period as
17 the soil samples?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. At the same time as the soil
20 samples?
21 A. I don't know the exact sampling
22 regime but generally in the same time frame.
23 Q. Were the water samples collected in
24 each of the water conservation areas?
25 A. I am not sure of the exact sampling
21
1 setup, but I believe that's true.
2 Q. Did you participate in the analysis
3 of the water samples?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Have you done any other work with
6 Dave Swift?
7 A. No.
8 MR. NETTLETON: Let's go off the
9 record.
10 (A discussion takes place off the
11 record.)
12 BY MR. PERKO:
13 Q. What other projects have you worked
14 on or did you work on between -- or during your
15 tenure as a soil chemist between 1973 and 1986?
16 A. I did the soil and plant tissue
17 analysis for the bony marsh study, for --
18 Q. Let's take that one. The bony marsh
19 study, who was the project manager for that
20 study?
21 A. I believe Steve Davis. At one time
22 Steve Davis was the manager. I'm not sure who
23 the current manager is.
24 Q. Where is the bony marsh?
25 A. It's on the Kissimmee River.
22
1 Q. What was the purpose of that study?
2 A. To learn the effects of nutrients on
3 a wetland.
4 Q. What type of wetland is the bony
5 marsh?
6 A. It's outside of the area of my
7 expertise.
8 Q. You said you did the analysis on I
9 believe you said the soil and leaf samples?
10 A. Plants, fish and leaf samples, yes.
11 Q. What parameters did you analyze
12 these samples for?
13 A. Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium,
14 calcium and magnesium.
15 Q. Do you recall generally what
16 concentrations of phosphorus you typically
17 observed?
18 A. No.
19 Q. If I could step back just for a
20 moment and talk about the work you did with Dave
21 Swift, do you know if the water quality data
22 collected as a part of that project is in the
23 current data -- in the District's current data
24 management system?
25 A. I believe it is.
23
1 Q. Do you happen to know the code name
2 for that data?
3 A. Not offhand. I'd have to refer to
4 index of project codes to determine that.
5 Q. Who would you -- if you wanted to
6 get ahold of that data, who would you ask?
7 A. Well, I could go directly to Dave
8 Swift and ask for his paper copy of the data or I
9 could go to one of the data managers. I believe
10 Tom Raishe is in charge of that database.
11 Q. When you say that database, what do
12 you mean?
13 A. The chemistry database.
14 Q. Do you know how to spell Tom
15 Raishe's last name?
16 A. R-a-i-s-h-e, I believe.
17 Q. Back to the bony marsh project, did
18 that result in a technical publication of any
19 sort?
20 A. I believe there were several
21 District tech pubs, technical publications --
22 Q. And over what -- I'm sorry. Go
23 ahead.
24 A. -- put out on the results. I wasn't
25 involved in their preparations.
24
1 Q. Over what period of time did that
2 project last?
3 A. I'm not sure of the exact
4 termination date. It was still going on in 1986
5 when I left the laboratory.
6 Q. What other projects did you work on
7 in your tenure as a soil chemist?
8 A. The cattail and sawgrass studies
9 that were performed by various people in the
10 water conservation areas.
11 Q. When you say various people, who do
12 you mean?
13 A. Steve Davis was involved in those,
14 Lou Toth did some of them, and I believe Nancy
15 Urban also did some of them.
16 Q. What time period did these studies
17 cover?
18 A. Oh, let's see. Steve Davis was
19 involved for the entire thirteen years. I
20 believe Lou Toth came to work for the District in
21 the early eighties and his project went -- well,
22 the heavy sampling loads that he submitted to the
23 lab went through '89 -- excuse me -- '85.
24 Q. And what about Nancy Urban?
25 A. Her stuff went through the mid
25
1 eighties through '86, and I'm not sure how much
2 longer they went after '86.
3 Q. What was the general purpose of
4 these studies?
5 A. That's somewhat outside of the area
6 of my expertise. I wasn't involved in the
7 planning or the design of the studies, but I
8 believe generally it was to learn about nutrient
9 dynamics in the Everglades and in the Kissimmee
10 River Basin.
11 Q. What was the extent of your
12 involvement in these studies?
13 A. I provided the analytical services.
14 Q. What sort of analytical services did
15 you provide?
16 A. The analysis for the parameters that
17 we have mentioned.
18 Q. Just to make sure, what parameters
19 did you look at in these cattail and sawgrass
20 studies?
21 A. Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium,
22 magnesium. Did I mention calcium? And calcium.
23 Q. Any others?
24 A. I believe we may have done some
25 organic matter analysis and possibly some
26
1 particle size analysis on some of the soil
2 samples. I don't remember the details.
3 Q. When you say you provided analytical
4 services for these parameters, in what context?
5 Did you look at soils, plant tissue, water?
6 A. Soils and plant tissue.
7 Q. Did you perform or do any analysis
8 on water samples?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did you actually collect the soil
11 and plant samples that you analyzed?
12 A. Occasionally. Most of the time, no.
13 Q. What was the -- what geographic
14 areas were the samples taken?
15 A. Well, we'll go back to the previous
16 answer, in the water conservation areas.
17 Q. All three?
18 A. For one project or another, yes, all
19 three, the bony marsh and there were some samples
20 that were collected in Taylor Creek Nub and
21 Slough.
22 MR. PERKO: Would you like to take a
23 break, Mr. Rosen?
24 THE WITNESS: That would be fine.
25 (A brief recess is taken.)
27
1 BY MR. PERKO:
2 Q. Mr. Rosen, we were talking about
3 several projects that you've worked on during
4 your tenure as a soil chemist at the District
5 between 1973 and 1986. Did you participate in
6 the -- or did you interpret the results of any of
7 your analyses?
8 A. Exactly what do you mean by
9 interpret the results?
10 Q. Well, did you prepare any reports
11 that describe the significance of any of the
12 results of your analysis?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Did you contribute to any reports,
15 interpreting them?
16 A. Only the methods sections that
17 describe the analytical procedures.
18 Q. Going back to the cattail and
19 sawgrass studies, if you wanted to get your hands
20 on the soil and water quality data resulting from
21 those projects, who would you ask?
22 A. Probably -- well, I'd ask Steve
23 Davis for the paper copies of the work that he
24 did, Lou Toth for his work, reports from the work
25 that he did.
28
1 Q. Does all or do all the data from
2 these various projects eventually go to the
3 District's overall database? Is there one master
4 database containing all --
5 A. For the water data there is.
6 Q. So if someone was to request all
7 water quality data for the Loxahatchee National
8 Wildlife Refuge, the District could compile all
9 that information from one database?
10 A. Well, that's not my area of
11 expertise but I believe so.
12 Q. If you wanted to get your hands on
13 that water quality data, who would you ask?
14 A. I would probably ask Tom Raishe for
15 starters.
16 Q. Are there any other projects that
17 you provided analyses for during your tenure as a
18 soil chemist?
19 A. I did a little bit of work on the
20 dairy phosphorus studies in Okeechobee County.
21 Q. Who was the project manager for
22 that?
23 A. I don't remember exactly, but I
24 believe it was Gary Ritter.
25 Q. Over what period of time did that
29
1 study encompass?
2 A. Well, I don't remember the starting
3 dates, but the sample collections I believe were
4 ongoing through the end of 1986, although they
5 were not very intensive.
6 Q. Did you actually collect samples?
7 A. I did collect some of the soil
8 samples.
9 Q. Was your involvement limited to soil
10 samples or did you work with other media?
11 A. It was limited to soil and sediment
12 samples.
13 Q. What parameters did you analyze
14 those samples for?
15 A. I don't remember all of the
16 parameters that we did on those, but we did do
17 phosphorus.
18 Q. Do you recall generally what
19 phosphorus concentrations you observed?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Did you work on any other projects
22 during your tenure as a soil chemist?
23 A. I did some analyses for Dr. Shih of
24 the University of Florida.
25 Q. What's his first name?
30
1 A. Sun-Fu but he goes by the name of
2 Tony.
3 Q. I just didn't want to get confused
4 with George. What type of analysis did you
5 provide Dr. Shih?
6 A. Nutrients, nitrogen -- well, it was
7 primarily plant tissue analysis.
8 Q. What was the purpose of that study?
9 A. I didn't have a hand in designing
10 the study and I'm not fully cognizant of all the
11 purposes, but I believe it was to learn about
12 water relations and water use in certain crops
13 that are growing in the Everglades ag area. I
14 also did some sampling in Chandler Slough in --
15 let's see, I believe that would have been in the
16 seventies. I'm just looking to see what the date
17 is on the -- okay. The work that I'm talking
18 about now was a publication or the technical
19 report by Federico, Milleson, Millar and Rosen,
20 Chandler Slough.
21 Q. That's a separate project from the
22 work you did with Dr. Shih. Correct?
23 A. Yes. Although early on when Dr.
24 Shih was a District employee he did have some
25 involvement in that, but I collected soil samples
31
1 and analyzed them principally for phosphorus,
2 although I did also analyze for some other
3 parameters and I wrote the soil section of that
4 report.
5 Q. Did you interpret the results of
6 your analyses?
7 A. As best I could.
8 Q. And what was your conclusion?
9 A. With the data that we had
10 collected -- as I remember, all we did was learn
11 what the phosphorus levels were in different
12 areas in the slough and the different types of
13 soils, and it was fairly preliminary work so --
14 Q. Did you attach any significance to
15 the levels that you observed?
16 A. I didn't carry the studies far
17 enough to -- either in time or do a detailed
18 enough -- collected an extensive enough data set
19 to make definitive determinations of the
20 phosphorus dynamics.
21 Q. Did you perform any estimates of
22 phosphorus retention?
23 A. No, I did not.
24 Q. Did anyone who participated in that
25 study perform estimates of P retention?
32
1 A. I'm not aware of that.
2 Q. What was the purpose of the Chandler
3 Slough study?
4 A. I'm not fully aware of all the
5 purposes. I was asked to collect data or collect
6 samples and analyze them, make some
7 determinations of what the chemical composition
8 of the soils were.
9 Q. Did that result in a -- did that
10 project result in a technical publication of any
11 sort? I'm sorry.
12 A. Well --
13 Q. 78-2?
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. Was there any water quality sampling
16 performed in connection with that study?
17 A. I believe there was, but I was not
18 involved in that section of the publication.
19 Q. If I could back up if I could to the
20 work you did with Dr. Shih at the University of
21 Florida. You said the purpose of that study was
22 to learn about the water relationships and use in
23 the ag area. Is that correct?
24 A. Right.
25 Q. Did you perform any analysis on
33
1 water samples in connection with that study?
2 A. No, I did not.
3 Q. Did anyone else?
4 A. I'm not sure and I do not know where
5 the water samples were analyzed.
6 Q. Did that study result in a
7 publication of any sort?
8 A. Yes, it did. Shih and Rosen, 1985.
9 Q. Okay. Do you recall any other
10 projects that you worked on during your tenure as
11 a soil chemist?
12 A. Well, there were a lot of
13 miscellaneous samples that were brought into the
14 lab at various times for one reason or another.
15 I don't remember all the details.
16 Q. Would they be from any specific
17 geographical areas or --
18 A. I believe I've already covered the
19 major -- you know, told you all the major
20 projects. There was -- well, one other project
21 that comes to mind was some well coring samples
22 that I did physical characterization of and I
23 believe also phosphorus analysis in the Kissimmee
24 River. The samples were in connection with some
25 litigation that I don't completely understand
34
1 that was going on at the time, and as a result we
2 worked up some chain of custody documents on
3 these particular samples which was not something
4 that we normally did in the lab.
5 Q. Is that the only project that you
6 recall preparing chain of custody documents for?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. I'd like to refer you to Exhibit
9 Number 1, the list of publications. The third
10 publication is Shih, Federico, Milleson and Rosen
11 entitled, "Sampling Programs for Using Upland
12 Marsh to Improve Water Quality." What was the
13 purpose of that study?
14 A. I believe that was to get the data
15 from Technical Publication 78-2 into the
16 literature. As I've already said, Dr. Shih had
17 some involvement in the early planning of the
18 Chandler Slough study so --
19 Q. So this was an outgrowth of the
20 Chandler Slough study?
21 A. Yes, it was. I believe it's really
22 the same data being written up for general
23 publication. I haven't looked at that in a while
24 so --
25 Q. You mean the same data as that in
35
1 78-2?
2 A. In Tech Pub 78-2, yes.
3 Q. Did you do any estimates of P
4 retention in connection with this paper,
5 phosphorus retention that is?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did anyone else to your knowledge?
8 A. I'm not aware of whether anybody
9 else tried to do that.
10 Q. What was the extent of your
11 involvement in preparing this publication? Did
12 you draft any of the publications?
13 A. You're talking about Shih, Federico,
14 et al.?
15 Q. Right, 1979.
16 A. Other than the fact that I believe
17 it was drawn from -- the data for this
18 publication was drawn from 78-2, virtually none.
19 Q. So your name appears as a co-author
20 because you participated in the original
21 collection and analysis of the data?
22 A. That's correct.
23 Q. What about the first publication
24 listed in your resume Federico, Milleson, Millar
25 and Rosen? What was the extent of your --
36
1 A. I wrote up the soils section.
2 Q. Did you review any other portions of
3 the paper?
4 A. I don't remember, but I did not have
5 any editorial authority over other sections.
6 Q. What about the second publication,
7 Gleason, Stone, Rosen, 1974?
8 A. I prepared -- well, I did the
9 analysis for that project and I believe I may
10 have written up the methods section for the
11 chemical analysis or written up notes which Dr.
12 Gleason incorporated into the methods section.
13 Q. What was the purpose of this study?
14 A. I believe Dr. Gleason was trying to
15 learn about nutrient uptake, the rates.
16 Q. Do you remember what the results of
17 this study were?
18 A. No, I have looked at the paper but
19 no.
20 Q. Do you recall if the paper included
21 any estimates of nutrient uptake rates?
22 A. I believe it did. I don't remember
23 what the rates were.
24 Q. Do you know why the study was never
25 published?
37
1 A. No.
2 Q. Do you know if it was submitted for
3 publication?
4 A. No, I don't know what the problems
5 with it were.
6 Q. Do you know if it was ever peer
7 reviewed?
8 A. No.
9 Q. When you say no, do you mean that --
10 do you mean to say that you don't recall if it
11 was ever peer reviewed or that it was not ever
12 peer reviewed?
13 A. I do not recall or I do not know.
14 Q. I draw your attention to the final
15 publication listed in your resume, Shih and
16 Rosen, 1985.
17 A. All right.
18 Q. Was that an outgrowth of the work
19 that you did for Dr. Shih in the University of
20 Florida?
21 A. Yes, that is -- that's where I did
22 the work.
23 Q. What was your involvement in the
24 preparation of this paper?
25 A. I wrote up the methods section or
38
1 notes describing the methods section, and I
2 believe I did some editing to polish up the
3 English grammar a little bit.
4 Q. Did you interpret your results or
5 attach any significance to them?
6 A. No, I did not.
7 Q. Are there any other publications for
8 which you have appeared as a co-author or author
9 other than those listed in your resume?
10 A. Except for the current one, the
11 periphyton study by Grimshaw, Swift and Rosen, I
12 don't believe there are any others.
13 Q. What's the current status of the
14 periphyton study you just mentioned?
15 A. It's been accepted for publication.
16 Q. By whom?
17 A. I believe it's the Archives Fur
18 Biologie. I'm not sure the exact title but I
19 believe that's it.
20 Q. Did you actually draft any of that
21 paper?
22 A. I wrote up some notes on the
23 analytical methodologies for the periphyton and
24 the water chemistry. I reviewed the old
25 procedures that were performed in the water lab.
39
1 Q. When you say you reviewed the old
2 procedures in the water lab, what do you mean by
3 old?
4 A. The procedures that were being used
5 at the time that the analyses were done.
6 Q. And over what period of time were
7 those analyses done?
8 A. Well, for this particular paper it
9 was from the late seventies I believe through
10 1983.
11 Q. What procedures were used for
12 phosphorus water samples over that period of
13 time?
14 A. For water samples.
15 Q. Yes.
16 A. Well, they did orthophosphate and
17 they did total phosphate.
18 Q. What were the actual analytical
19 procedures used for those parameters?
20 A. I don't remember all of the details,
21 but it was a phosphomolybdic acid colorimetric
22 test.
23 Q. Phosphomolyb --
24 A. Molybdic acid, and it was the
25 ascorbic acid variation.
40
1 Q. What geographical areas were the
2 water samples taken from that you reviewed the
3 procedures for?
4 A. The procedures were not
5 geographically -- you know, not unique to the
6 geographic area.
7 Q. I'm sorry. You said that you
8 reviewed the procedures for the water samples
9 that were done from the late seventies through
10 1983, and I'm trying to figure out what
11 geographical areas those water samples came
12 from.
13 A. Wherever the sampling sites are that
14 are defined in the project.
15 Q. When you say you reviewed the
16 procedures, were there records kept of the
17 procedures utilized or did you actually perform
18 the sampling?
19 MR. NETTLETON: I object to the
20 form.
21 A. No, I didn't. No, I did not perform
22 the sampling. I went back to the laboratory and
23 pulled out the notes and the procedural -- the
24 references to different laboratory procedures and
25 laid those out so that the methods procedure for
41
1 the report could be written up with accurate
2 information.
3 Q. You previously characterized these
4 procedures as the old procedures. Is that
5 correct?
6 A. I did use that word.
7 Q. How have they changed?
8 A. I am not aware of how they changed
9 or whether they have changed. What I meant by
10 that was the procedures that were in use at the
11 time that those analyses were done as opposed to
12 what they're currently doing in the lab.
13 Q. Did you review the quality control
14 procedures taken in connection with the water
15 quality sampling?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And what quality control measures
18 were taken?
19 A. For water samples?
20 Q. Yes.
21 A. Well, they used a series of four
22 standards plus a blank to calibrate the
23 instrument. They used a couple of internal QC
24 samples, I believe they were called QC-1 and
25 QC-2, to determine how well or how close -- what
42
1 the accuracy of the analysis was, how close they
2 could come to a known value. They used standard
3 additions to look for interferences and they used
4 repeated samples to determine precision.
5 Q. These standard additions to -- I'm
6 sorry?
7 A. Look for interferences.
8 Q. What were the standards?
9 A. I don't remember the details of
10 standard preparation, but generally or in a
11 general way they were chemical solutions that
12 contained a known concentration of the analyte,
13 if you're looking at phosphorus it contained a
14 known concentration.
15 Q. Do you know what the known
16 concentration was for phosphorus?
17 A. I don't understand your question.
18 Q. What were the actual concentrations
19 used for the standards for total phosphorus?
20 A. I don't remember.
21 Q. Is that data still on record at the
22 District?
23 A. I believe it should be available.
24 Q. And by that data I mean the quality
25 control data.
43
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Were the standard samples and blank
3 samples identified to the -- or I'm sorry, strike
4 that. Let me start over. Were the lab
5 technicians that actually performed the analysis
6 aware that the standard samples or blank samples
7 were not taken from the field?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you recall the concentration
10 range of the QC samples for total phosphorus?
11 A. For water samples?
12 Q. Right.
13 A. No.
14 Q. What about soil samples?
15 A. I have some vague recollections of
16 what they were, but I'd have to look at my notes
17 to --
18 Q. Mr. Rosen, if you were to the
19 laboratory's performance at low concentration
20 levels for total phosphorus, what quality control
21 measures would you use?
22 MR. NETTLETON: I object to form.
23 A. I don't understand the question.
24 Q. For example, if you were concerned
25 about the quality of the data at concentrations
44
1 as low as twenty parts per billion, what
2 concentration ranges would you introduce in the
3 QC samples?
4 MR. NETTLETON: I object to form.
5 A. May I ask a further question?
6 Q. Do you know the answer to the
7 question I just asked?
8 A. There's not enough information in
9 that question to give a good answer.
10 MR. PERKO: I'm going to let him ask
11 the question.
12 MR. NETTLETON: I don't want to
13 start that precedent so if you want to just ask
14 him.
15 BY MR. PERKO:
16 Q. You can go ahead and ask your
17 question.
18 A. May I ask?
19 MR. NETTLETON: Go ahead.
20 A. You've told me the lower limit of
21 your samples. You haven't told me anything about
22 what range of how far above the lower limit or
23 how wide a range of samples we're looking at.
24 Q. Would you like to take a break?
25 A. I'm okay but if you'd like to,
45
1 that's fine.
2 Q. While I'm waiting for inspiration on
3 that last question, to the best of your
4 recollection does that -- our previous discussion
5 cover the projects that you worked on during your
6 tenure as a soil chemist?
7 A. The major or significant projects
8 are covered.
9 Q. In your -- go ahead.
10 A. There were some other samples that
11 were submitted by other parts of the District on
12 occasion, you know, other than environmental
13 sciences.
14 Q. Did you spend most of your time in
15 the lab actually performing analysis of the
16 samples?
17 A. Yes, with the assistance of one
18 technician.
19 Q. And who was that?
20 A. For the major part of the time, for
21 most of the thirteen years was Ann Marie Superchi
22 who is currently working in the Regulation
23 Department.
24 Q. Did anyone else assist you?
25 A. Pedro Rodriguez Vasquez who is still
46
1 in the lab. And in the seventies there was a
2 succession of technicians who worked for me for
3 short periods of times. I don't remember the
4 dates and I'm not sure that I can remember all of
5 the names.
6 Q. I may have already asked you this
7 question, but did you perform any analysis of
8 water samples?
9 A. Occasionally I would assist in the
10 water lab, you know, do some technical work when
11 things were slow in the soils lab to help them
12 out, but generally, no, I did not.
13 Q. Back to my previous line of
14 questioning regarding QC samples. Let's say that
15 you're -- assume that you're concerned about the
16 quality of total phosphorus, analytical results
17 for samples that have total phosphorus
18 concentrations of less than twenty ppb.
19 A. You're talking about less than
20 twenty ppb?
21 Q. Less than twenty ppb?
22 A. Or twenty ppb as the minimum.
23 Q. Less than twenty ppb.
24 A. Okay.
25 Q. What would you use as the range of
47
1 standard concentrations to develop your standard
2 curve?
3 A. Are there any samples higher than
4 twenty ppb in this data set?
5 Q. No.
6 A. All right. I would try to --
7 MR. NETTLETON: I'm going to object
8 to the form but you can go ahead and answer.
9 A. Try to develop -- well, I would set
10 twenty ppb as the high standard and work down I
11 believe geometrically. I would have the next
12 standard at half of that and the next one at
13 roughly half of that.
14 Q. How would you -- what would you use
15 as the concentration of reference samples or QC
16 check samples to evaluate lab performance for
17 concentrations within this range, i.e. less than
18 twenty ppb?
19 MR. NETTLETON: I object to the
20 form.
21 A. It wasn't in my area to devise water
22 QC samples so --
23 Q. Who would be responsible for
24 developing water QC samples?
25 A. Well, who -- are you talking
48
1 about --
2 Q. With the District.
3 A. Position wise or historical record
4 of the people who actually did it?
5 Q. If you recall the names.
6 A. I do recall some of the names.
7 Q. Who might that be?
8 A. Towards the end of the time that I
9 was in the lab a chemist by the name of Leslie
10 Teets was the quality control director.
11 Q. Does the District have any quality
12 control manuals?
13 MR. NETTLETON: I object to form.
14 BY MR. PERKO:
15 Q. That are used as a reference guide?
16 A. Currently?
17 Q. Currently.
18 A. I'm not really sure what their
19 current procedures are. I've had no involvement
20 with the lab since the end of 1986, but --
21 Q. What about prior to 1986?
22 A. I believe they used the EPA manual
23 on quality control, although this was -- I wasn't
24 directly involved in the decisions on devising
25 procedures for the water lab or determining the
49
1 quality control. All I know is what I've seen in
2 the record, but I believe they use the EPA manual
3 for quality control procedures, and I believe
4 they use AWA manual for selecting the actual
5 analytical procedures that they used.
6 Q. If you wanted to determine what QC
7 procedures were actually used prior to 1986, how
8 would you go about doing that?
9 MR. NETTLETON: I object to form.
10 THE WITNESS: Is it all right if I
11 answer?
12 MR. NETTLETON: Sure.
13 A. I'd go back to the laboratory
14 records and find out what documents they had that
15 describe their procedures.
16 Q. I believe you previously stated that
17 you served as a staff chemist or soil chemist
18 from 1973 to 1986. Is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What position did you have after
21 you -- after 1986?
22 A. Well, it had various titles, but I
23 was involved in water conservation programs for,
24 if I remember the correct name of the division,
25 it was Water Supply Planning and Management, and
50
1 I don't remember if that's the exact title but
2 Carl Woehlcke was the division director.
3 Q. How long did you serve in that
4 position?
5 A. Well, until the reorganization of
6 the District where the Planning Department was
7 formed, the job responsibilities sort of evolved
8 from one division to another, and it was not
9 really that much of a change in responsibilities.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. You know, it was a gradual evolution
12 to planning, and it was more planning oriented
13 tasks all along.
14 Q. Let me back up a little bit. When
15 you left the chemistry lab in 1986, you went to
16 what was to become the Planning Department.
17 Right?
18 A. Well, it was -- all of these, at
19 that time all of these divisions, the Chemistry
20 Lab and the Water Quality and the Environmental
21 Science Division were in one large department
22 called Resource Planning which has since been
23 split up into Research, Planning and Evaluation,
24 and I went from one of the more research oriented
25 sections to a planning oriented section.
51
1 Q. When you say you went from a
2 research oriented --
3 A. Well, the chemistry lab.
4 Q. So you consider the chemistry lab to
5 be a more research organization.
6 A. Yes. I believe -- well, I'm not
7 sure where it is in the current structure of
8 things, but it's definitely not in planning.
9 Q. What were your new responsibilities
10 in your new job?
11 A. We worked on various water
12 conservation programs. The Xeriscape project was
13 a big part of it. We put together materials to
14 be used in the Xeriscape project such as the
15 Xeriscape Plant Guide and some of the other
16 pamphlets that the District distributes.
17 Q. What was the Xeriscape project?
18 A. It was a project to encourage sound
19 landscaping practices in South Florida so that
20 water used for landscaping purposes could be
21 minimized.
22 Q. What other type of programs did you
23 work on?
24 A. Well, the techniques and procedures
25 that we learned in working on these programs were
52
1 carried over and we started working on
2 irrigation -- or I started working on irrigation
3 demands for water supply plans in the lower east
4 coast which is my current position. That's my
5 official title.
6 Q. What is your official title now?
7 A. Staff Planner.
8 Q. Do you have any role in evaluating
9 the water supply demands for the lower east
10 coast?
11 A. Yes. Well, up till November of '92
12 I was quite heavily involved in that.
13 Q. What were your responsibilities in
14 that regard?
15 A. We collected data on crop acreage
16 for different crops and different types of
17 agriculture in the lower east coast, Dade County,
18 Broward County and the eastern and western
19 sections of Palm Beach County, the eastern
20 section of Hendry County, and we took this data
21 and tried to develop estimates of water -- future
22 water needs in an average and in a two in ten --
23 a statistical two in ten drought year using the
24 Blaney-Criddle evapotransforation equations that
25 the Regulation Department uses in permitting.
53
1 Q. Do you utilize any hydrologic
2 modeling, computer modeling in that capacity?
3 A. Not hydrologic modeling. No, we
4 were just trying to develop demand estimates, and
5 this data was turned over to somebody else for
6 hydrologic modeling purposes.
7 Q. Did you also look at the water
8 supply demands of the urban areas of the lower
9 east coast?
10 A. We have looked at that to a limited
11 extent, but I did not have any involvement in the
12 estimates that went into any of the water supply
13 plans. It was decided that other methodologies
14 would be more appropriate than the methodologies
15 that we were developing with the exception of
16 golf courses. We did look at golf course
17 estimates because that was a water -- or a land
18 use type that lent itself to the same
19 methodologies that we used for agriculture.
20 Q. Are you aware of any analysis
21 performed to estimate the effects of SWIM Plan
22 implementation on water supply in the lower east
23 coast?
24 A. I have not been involved in natural
25 systems analysis.
54
1 Q. You would consider --
2 A. I am aware that this is going on,
3 but I'm not involved in it. I don't know
4 anything about their methodologies.
5 Q. Who is involved in it?
6 A. I'm not really sure who all the
7 players are.
8 Q. Do you recall any names?
9 A. I believe Dave Black is marginally
10 involved.
11 Q. Cal Neidrauer?
12 A. Cal Neidrauer is involved in over-
13 all modeling. I don't know -- since I'm not
14 involved in this project directly, I don't know
15 the limits of the role of each person.
16 Q. Is Paul Trimble involved in that
17 analysis?
18 A. I believe so.
19 Q. Ron Santee?
20 A. I would say that he probably is,
21 too.
22 Q. Do you recall any others that might
23 be involved in that?
24 A. I believe at one time Dewey Worth
25 had some involvement in this.
55
1 Q. Anyone else?
2 A. Some of the GI -- the people who
3 work on the GIS system have some involvement.
4 Q. Who might that be?
5 A. Brent Moll was involved, I believe.
6 Q. Anyone else?
7 A. Some of the technicians who actually
8 operate the computers and do the work. Jimmy
9 Cramp comes to mind. And I'm not sure just how
10 heavily some of the other technicians in the
11 Lower District Planning are involved in that.
12 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the
13 results of that analysis thus far?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Who at the District would you ask to
16 find out the results of that analysis?
17 MR. NETTLETON: I object to form.
18 A. Probably the first person that I
19 would go to is Cal Neidrauer. I'm not sure
20 whether he would give me the answers that I would
21 be asking, if I was asking these questions, or
22 whether he would direct me to somebody else. As
23 I said before, I have no --
24 Q. I understand --
25 A. -- direct involvement in this
56
1 project.
2 Q. I'd like to back up just for one
3 second. We talked about the periphyton study
4 that you participated in with Jim Grimshaw and
5 others.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You mentioned that you looked at the
8 procedures utilized collecting water samples or
9 analyzing water samples of the data in the late
10 1970's through 1983. Correct?
11 A. Right.
12 Q. Is that the same data that Millar
13 published in the early 1980's?
14 A. I'm not positive, but I believe Dave
15 Swift collected his own water samples for that
16 project.
17 Q. Are you familiar with the technical
18 publication authored by Paul Millar regarding
19 water sampling that he performed in the
20 Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Do you know if the data that you
23 looked at in connection with your work with
24 Grimshaw and others was the same data utilized to
25 develop the phosphorus limits for Loxahatchee
57
1 that are included in the Everglades SWIM Plan?
2 A. No, I do not. I've had no
3 involvement in developing those limits.
4 MR. PERKO: Why don't we take a
5 five-minute break.
6 (A brief recess is taken.)
7 BY MR. PERKO:
8 Q. Mr. Rosen, I'd like to go back to
9 our discussion of the Gleason, Stone and Rosen
10 study in 1974, Nutrient Uptake and Rates of
11 Nutrient Deposition in Conservation Area 2A. Are
12 you aware of any concerns expressed regarding the
13 technical credibility of this study?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Would you have any reason to doubt
16 the veracity of the data in the study?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Or the quality of the data?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Before we took a break we talked
21 about your responsibilities as a staff planner.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Do you recall any other
24 responsibilities that you haven't discussed
25 previously?
58
1 A. No. I think we've pretty generally
2 covered the major areas of responsibility.
3 Q. Okay. And you are currently not
4 assigned to the Planning Department. Is that
5 correct?
6 A. Well, my -- for payroll purposes my
7 position is still in the Planning Department, but
8 I'm currently not doing any work for them.
9 Q. Okay. And you're currently assigned
10 to the Office of General Counsel. Is that
11 correct?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. When were you reassigned to the
14 General Counsel's Office?
15 A. In November of 1972.
16 Q. '92?
17 MR. NETTLETON: '72?
18 A. I'm sorry.
19 Q. The case isn't that old.
20 A. In November of '92. I'm sorry.
21 Q. How did your responsibilities change
22 when you were reassigned to the Office of General
23 Counsel?
24 A. Well, I stopped doing water supply
25 planning work and started doing tasks that were
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1 assigned to me by the Office of Counsel.
2 Q. What type of tasks?
3 A. Well, in a general way I was asked
4 to provide technical assistance to the Office of
5 Counsel for the Everglades lawsuit.
6 Q. What type of technical assistance?
7 A. Well, I have been assigned to
8 provide technical assistance for the remedy part
9 of the lawsuit.
10 Q. When you say the remedy part of the
11 lawsuit, what do you mean?
12 A. Well, it's my understanding that the
13 lawsuit has been broken up into two sections,
14 and, you know, I'm not an attorney so I don't
15 understand all the legal ramifications, but it's
16 been broken up into the harm and the remedy.
17 Q. What remedies have you looked at?
18 A. I've looked at STA's, best
19 management practices and alternatives --
20 alternative methods of eliminating phosphorus
21 from the water.
22 Q. What alternatives have you looked
23 at?
24 A. Well, I haven't had a chance to read
25 all the literature on this yet, but I have looked
60
1 at chemical -- various versions of chemical
2 precipitation and coagulation.
3 Q. What about direct filtration?
4 A. That falls into that category. It's
5 one of the variations of that.
6 Q. When you say you provide technical
7 assistance, what do you mean?
8 A. Well, I'm still learning the job,
9 but it's my understanding that I'm supposed to be
10 a go-between from the scientists and engineers to
11 the attorneys to explain these various proposals
12 that come along to them in terms that they can
13 understand.
14 Q. Does your technical assistance
15 involve any critique or evaluation of the
16 different alternatives?
17 A. Yes, it does.
18 Q. To what extent? Do you provide
19 Office of Counsel with recommendations as to the
20 different alternatives?
21 MR. NETTLETON: I'm going to object
22 at this point. He's been listed to testify in
23 the area of QA/QC and I don't have any problem
24 asking anything about that. With regard to other
25 areas I also don't have a problem with you asking
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1 his opinions even though he's not designated in
2 those areas and he can answer to the extent he
3 can. But when you're asking what his opinions
4 are in the Office of Counsel for purposes of
5 litigation, I think that's too specific and
6 regard that to be work product.
7 MR. PERKO: Let me rephrase it then.
8 BY MR. PERKO:
9 Q. Do you have an opinion as to the
10 most feasible phosphorus treatment alternative?
11 A. As I have said, I haven't read all
12 of the literature yet. It's quite extensive and
13 some of it is engineering and I'm having to learn
14 the engineering aspects, so I have not yet formed
15 an opinion.
16 Q. You said that you essentially act as
17 a go-between between the scientists and the
18 attorneys. What scientists have you worked -- do
19 you work with?
20 A. Well, I'm reviewing the papers by
21 the scientists for the various interests. Duke
22 Wetlands Center work, the work by the
23 representatives of the Federal Government and the
24 work by in-house scientists and engineers at the
25 District as well as the ones that we have