DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 401
DOCUMENTS TO THE UNIVERSITY. AND WE HAVE A
FORMALIZED PROCEDURE AT THE UNIVERSITY HOW TO
CREATE CENTERS. AND SOME TIME DURING THE MID
'80'S, WE WORKED TOWARDS DEVELOPMENT OF A CENTER,
AND I FOLLOWED THOSE GUIDELINES AND THE CENTER
CAME INTO EXISTENCE. I THINK IT WAS FORMALLY
APPROVED -- IT WAS EITHER LATE 189 OR 190. I
CAN'T REMEMBER THE EXACT DATE. IT WAS A CENTER;
THERE WAS A LETTER FROM THE PROVOST APPROVING IT,
BUT IT HAD TO GO BEFORE THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF
THE UNIVERSITY.
Q. WHAT ARE THE GUIDELINES FOR FORMING A CENTER? DO
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FUNDING IN
ORDER TO BEGIN A CENTER?
A. THE FUNDING IS NOT THE MAJOR CRITERIA. YOU HAVE
TO HAVE A -- THE COLLEGIALITY REQUIREMENTS ARE
SUCH THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ACADEME WORKING
GROUP, A FACULTY, CROSS CAMPUSES. THERE'S A
GUIDEBOOK PROVIDED BY THE UNIVERSITY. YOU HAVE
TO HAVE A PLAN, AN OBJECTIVE, A SERIES OF GOALS,
AN EDUCATIONAL FORMAT, A RESEARCH FORMAT. YOU
HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THIS WILL PROVIDE THE
UNIVERSITY A -- IT HAS THE BASIS FOR BECOMING A
CENTER OF EXCELLENCE. SO, THERE ARE A NUMBER
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 402
OF ITEM -- I DON'T REMEMBER ALL THE CRITERIA,
BUT THERE IS A FAIRLY LENGTHY PROCEDURE BY
WHICH YOU MOVE FROM STEP "A" TO STEP "B" AND
STEP "C".
Q. OKAY. AND YOU FILED YOUR FIRST PAPERS FOR THE
VARIOUS STEPS WHEN?
A. SOMETIME IN THE MID '80'S, 185, 186, SOMEWHERE IN
THERE.
Q. ARE THOSE DOCUMENTS DOCUMENTS THAT, IF I WERE TO
SEND A SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM WITHOUT DEPOSITION,
THAT THE UNIVERSITY WOULD ALLOW ME TO OBTAIN?
A. YOU'D HAVE TO ASK THE UNIVERSITY.
MR. McCAUGHAN: EXCUSE ME, WOULD YOU
REPEAT THE FIRST PART OF THAT?
MS. PONZOLI: IF I WERE TO ASK FOR THE
DOCUMENTS ESTABLISHING THE DUKE WETLAND
CENTER, WOULD THE UNIVERSITY OBJECT TO THE
PRODUCTION OF THOSE DOCUMENTS?
MR. McCAUGHAN: LET ME ASK YOU WHAT
THE PURPOSE WOULD BE. LIKE ALL INTERNAL
DOCUMENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY, IF THERE'S A,
YOU KNOW, IF YOU FEEL LIKE THERE'S A VALID
DISCOVERY---
MS. PONZOLI: WELL, I THINK---
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 403
MR. McCAUGHAN: --- FILED, WE WOULDN'T
OBJECT TO IT.
MS. PONZOLI: CERTAINLY. I THINK I
HAVE CORRESPONDENCE INDICATING THERE WERE
PEOPLE IN FLORIDA WHO FELT THAT THE CENTER
WAS FORMED REALLY AS AN OUTGROWTH OF THE
PARTICULAR INDUSTRY'S RESEARCH. I REALIZE
FROM OTHER DOCUMENTS THAT IT SERVES MANY
OTHER PURPOSES TODAY. BUT THAT ITS FORMATION
CAME DIRECTLY AS AN OUTGROWTH OF THIS INITIAL
FUNDING. AND IF THAT'S TRUE, IT'S TRUE; IF
IT'S NOT TRUE, IT'S NOT TRUE. BUT I HAVE NO
WAY OF ESTABLISHING THAT WITHOUT THAT
INFORMATION.
MR. McCAUGHAN: GO AHEAD AND SUBMIT IT,
THE SUBPOENA.
MS. PONZOLI: OKAY. YOU WANT TO THINK
ABOUT IT, OKAY.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) ALL RIGHT. I GUESS THE SIMPLEST
THING IS JUST SIMPLY TO ASK YOU, DR. RICHARDSON,
WAS THE FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE'S INITIAL GRANT,
I GUESS, THE SPARK THAT LIT THE FIRE THAT GOT YOU
TO WHERE YOU COULD HAVE A CENTER?
A. NO, NOT DIRECTLY. IT WASN'T THE PRIMARY PIECE.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 404
THERE WAS -- THAT MAY BE ONE OF MANY PIECES. BUT
THE CENTER ACTUALLY, AS I SAID, HAD TO HAVE A
NUMBER OF CRITERIA. IT HAD TO HAVE FACULTY --
CRITICAL MASS OF FACULTY WHO AGREED; IT HAD TO
HAVE SOME GOALS; IT HAD TO HAVE SOME PURPOSE IN
THE SCHOOL AT THE TIME; AND, ESSENTIALLY, THE
UNIVERSITY HAD TO COMMIT SOME RESOURCES ITSELF,
WHICH IT DID, TO ESTABLISHING THIS CENTER. SO,
THE CENTER WAS ACTUALLY ESTABLISHED BY THE DEAN
OF THE SCHOOL OF FORESTRY WHO COMMITTED FUNDS TO
THIS. AND THERE WERE SOME PRIVATE DONORS WHO GAVE
TO HELP ESTABLISH THIS. THERE'S AN ENDOWMENT FUND
THAT WAS ESTABLISHED FOR THE CENTER. AND THERE
ARE SOME STUDENT SCHOLARSHIP FUNDS THAT ARE UNDER
MY DIRECTION RELATED TO THE CENTER THAT, AGAIN,
CAME FROM VARIOUS SOURCES.
SO, THAT -- THAT ALL HAD TO BE PUT IN PLACE.
IT HAPPENED ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS THE RESEARCH
PROJECT TOOK PLACE, SO IT WAS SORT OF A NORMAL
MELDING OF THIS.
Q. OKAY. IN THE DESCRIPTION OF THE DUKE UNIVERSITY
WETLAND CENTER, YOU LIST -- IS THIS THE INITIAL
ONE? IS THIS -- THIS TYPEWRITTEN VERSION---
A. NO. I BELIEVE---
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 405
Q. --- THAT'S RICHARDSON---
A. --- THERE ARE SEVERAL EARLIER DRAFTS. IN FACT, AS
I MENTIONEDI IN THE MID '80'S, WE HAD TO PRODUCE
SOME EARLY DOCUMENTS THAT WOULD BE WHAT THE
CENTER -- WOULD BE -- ORIGINALLY, IT WAS CALLED
WETLANDS ECOLOGY AND COASTAL SOMETHING CENTER, AND
THEN WENT THROUGH SEVERAL ITERATIONS.
Q. DO YOU KNOW WHEN THIS ONE WAS WRITTEN?
A. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY. IT WAS OBVIOUSLY AFTER THE
ONE IN THE MID '80'S, SO IT WAS PROBABLY 189,
MAYBE 188.
Q. MAY I RETRIEVE RICHARDSON NUMBER FIVE FROM YOU.
IT'S THE ONLY COPY I HAVE. I BELIEVE THAT -- JUST
A CURSORY GLANCE -- THAT RICHARDSON NUMBER FOUR
AND RICHARDSON NUMBER FIVE ARE VERY, VERY SIMILAR.
IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. I THINK THEY'RE FAIRLY CLOSE. I---
Q. ALL RIGHT. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE THAT I CAN REALLY
SEE OF SUBSTANCE IS, IS THE SELECTED RESEARCH
PROJECTS CONDUCTED AT DUKE UNIVERSITY WETLAND
CENTER, AND THEN THERE'S A LIST OF PROJECTS. AND
THEN -- I GUESS I'D JUST LIKE TO ASK YOU. THAT
DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE IN RICHARDSON NUMBER FIVE,
DOES IT?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 406
A. I BELIEVE SOME OF IT DOES, YES. BUT THE PROBLEM
IS THE COST OF PRINTING---
Q. SURE.
A. --- IS QUITE HIGH---
Q. I CAN IMAGINE.
A. ---AND THAT BROCHURE WAS NOT CHEAP.
Q. IT'S A VERY HANDSOME BROCHURE.
A. I TOOK SOME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS MYSELF.
Q. DID YOU TAKE THE ONE ON THE FRONT, OF THE
EVERGLADES?
A. NO.
Q. SUNSET IN THE FLORIDA EVERGLADES?
A. NO, THAT WAS -- THAT WAS ACTUALLY A COMMERCIAL
PHOTOGRAPHER WHO DID THAT.
Q. CATTAILS OR SAWGRASS?
A. OH, IT'S HARD TO TELL IN THE SUNSET.
Q. THE LIGHTING IS NOT GOOD, HUH? ALL RIGHT. WHERE
ARE THE RESEARCH PROJECTS THAT ARE LISTED?
A. IF YOU'D OPEN TO THE INSIDE AND LOOK AROUND THE
BORDER---
Q. THE INSIDE SEEMS TO BE A LANDSAT.
A. NO, IF YOU'D LOOK AT THE BORDER---
Q. OHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
A. --- WHICH NO ONE ELSE HAS EVER DISCOVERED EITHER.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 407
(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN
OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION
WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED
BY THE COURT REPORTER.)
A. IT WAS MY IDEA TO PLACE THOSE ON THE BORDER, WHICH
ACCORDING TO THE PERSON WHO DOES THE LAYOUT, WHO'S
A PROFESSIONAL IN THE SCHOOL, IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.
BUT THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE I COULD FIT IT IN, AND
IT TURNED OUT TO BE NOT A GOOD IDEA. AND NO ONE
HAS DISCOVERED THIS.
Q. MORE EMPIRICAL DATA RIGHT HERE. ALL RIGHT.
THERE'S JUST A COUPLE OF PROJECTS. I DON'T KNOW
IF THEY'RE LISTED, AND MAYBE YOU CAN POINT ME TO
THEM.
A. I'M NOT ---
Q. YOU HAVE ---
A. EXCUSE ME.
Q. GO AHEAD. NO, GO AHEAD.
A. NO. YOU ASK YOUR QUESTION.
Q. YOU'RE NOT SURE, WHAT?
A. NOPE, GO AHEAD. FINISH YOUR QUESTION.
Q. TWO PROJECTS -- "ECOLOGICAL ANALYSIS OF THE
EFFECTS OF NUTRIENTS AND HYDROPERIOD ON CATTAIL
REGENERATION AND NUTRIENT RETENTION IN THE WATER
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 408
CONSERVATION AREAS OF SOUTH FLORIDA." DID YOU
PRINT THAT AROUND THE BORDER?
A. I DON'T KNOW. THE -- LISA PHELPS, MY ASSISTANT,
JUDICIOUSLY WENT THROUGH, BY SPACE, AND JUST
KNOCKED OUT SOME THAT DIDN'T FIT. THERE WAS NO --
I TOLD HER -- I SAID, JUST MAKE THEM FIT. AND SHE
JUST -- SHE SAID, "I CAN'T FIT THEM ALL," AND I
SAID, "FIT WHAT YOU CAN FIT."
Q. AND SINCE NO ONE EVER READ THEM, IT DIDN'T MATTER
ANYWAY.
A. WELL, I THOUGHT THEY WOULD, BUT APPARENTLY THEY
DIDN'T; BECAUSE WE GET REQUESTS, "THANKS FOR THE
BROCHURE, BUT WHAT TYPES OF RESEARCH PROJECTS HAVE
YOU EVER DONE?"
Q. AND YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM LOOK AROUND THE BORDER
OF NORTH CAROLINA. AND THEN "THE NUTRIENT AND
CONTAMINANT TRANSPORT IN SATURATED AND UNSATURATED
SOILS." IS THAT ALSO REFERRING TO YOUR EVERGLADES
WORK?
I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOU ARE; WHERE ARE YOU NOW?
Q. THE SECOND -- ON PAGE NUMBER 7.
(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)
A. THAT MAY REFER MORE TO THE TVA PROJECT THAT WE
HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH. AND THAT ALSO COULD
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 409
BE -- I -- THAT MAY BE A GENERIC TITLE. I CANFT
REMEMBER. I ASKED INDIVIDUAL INVESTIGATORS --
THESE ARE NOT ALL MY INDIVIDUAL TITLES. YOU HAVE
TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT I DID WAS I WENT TO
INDIVIDUALS IN MY GROUP IN THE CENTER AND ASKED
THEM FOR VARIOUS TITLES OF RESEARCH PROJECTS THAT
THEY WERE DOING CURRENTLY OR -- AND SO. BUT THAT
ONE, I THINK, IS MINE, RELATED PROBABLY TO TVA, OR
MAYBE THE NORTH CAROLINA STUDY.
Q. SURE. ALL RIGHT. ON RICHARDSON NUMBER FOUR,
YOU HAVE A FACULTY LISTED. THESE ARE PEOPLE
WHO EITHER ARE DOING RESEARCH ASSOCIATED WITH
THE CENTER, OR WHAT? HOW ARE THESE FACULTY
LISTED?
A. THESE ARE FACULTY WHO HAVE AGREED, BY UNIVERSITY
POLICY, TO BE LISTED HERE AND IN THE BULLETINS; TO
PARTICIPATE; TO WORK WITH STUDENTS ON WETLANDS
ISSUES; TO HELP WRITE GRANTS; TO SERVE ON
COMMITTEES; TO TEACH COURSES; ETCETERA.
Q. SO, WOULD THEY BELONG -- SO, I SEE THEY DO BELONG
TO VARIOUS OTHER DEPARTMENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY,
BUT THEN THEY JUST SORT OF JOIN TOGETHER IN THIS
CENTER CONCEPT ---
A. THAT'S THE WAY ---
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 410
Q. --- TO SUPERVISE GRADUATE STUDENTS, AND PERFORM
OTHER TASKS.
A. --- THAT IS THE WAY MOST CENTERS FUNCTION IN MOST
UNIVERSITIES. WELL, THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS.
Q. OKAY. AND WE SEE THAT DR. RECKHOW IS LISTED AS
PART OF YOUR FACULTY.
A. THAT IS CORRECT.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, I THINK THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE
ON THAT. I'D LIKE TO---
MS. PONZOLI: LET'S GO OFF THE RECORD.
(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN
OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION
WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED
BY THE COURT REPORTER.)
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) DR. RICHARDSON, I'D LIKE TO HAND
YOU ANOTHER DOCUMENT AND ASK IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY
THAT.
(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)
A. IT'S A -- THE FIRST ONE HERE IS A LETTER TO IN
FACT, IT LOOKS LIKE SEVERAL LETTERS TO NAT REED.
DID I ANSWER THAT FOR YOU?
Q. DO YOU IDENTIFY THESE AS YOUR DOCUMENTS---
A. YES, THESE ARE---
Q. --- IT'S A COMPOSITE EXHIBIT?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 411
A. --- THESE ARE LETTERS -- A COMPOSITE EXHIBIT. I
BELIEVE, AS I SAID, THESE ARE LETTERS THAT --
CORRESPONDENCE THAT I SENT. ONE OF THEM, I DIDN'T
SIGN, BUT I THINK I DICTATED TO LISA---
Q. OKAY.
A. --- THAT I SENT TO NAT REED.
MS. PONZOLI: LET'S MAKE THIS
COMPOSITE EXHIBIT NUMBER SIX.
MR. BURGESS: CAN I JUST GET SOME
CLARIFICATION FOR THE RECORD? WHEN YOU
REFER TO COMPOSITE EXHIBIT, IS THAT THE
MANNER THAT HE'S PRODUCED IT TO YOU, OR
IS THAT THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU'RE SHOWING
IT TO HIM?
MS. PONZOLI: NO, THAT'S THE MANNER IN
WHICH IT WAS PRODUCED TO ME. AND DUE TO THE
RATHER TIGHT TIME CONSTRAINTS OF RECEIVING
THE DOCUMENTS AND COMING UP HERE, I HAVE NOT
REALLY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO PULL OUT OF A
LOT OF THESE COMPOSITE EXHIBITS THE SINGLE
ONE OR TWO DOCUMENTS THAT I WISH TO DEAL
WITH. BECAUSE BY THE TIME THEY GOT TO ME,
THEY WERE ALREADY STAPLED TOGETHER. AND
SORT OF UNSTAPLING THEM AND REASSEMBLING
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 412
THEM WAS A TASK THAT TIME WOULD NOT ALLOW.
SO, IN MANY OF THESE COMPOSITE EXHIBITS---
WITNESS: WELL, ON THE FRONT PAGE,
YOU'RE---
MS. PONZOLI: --- I'M ONLY INTERESTED IN
A SINGLE, OR MAYBE TWO DOCUMENTS, BUT THEY
WERE ALREADY PUT TOGETHER. SO, THAT'S ALL I
CAN -- THAT'S ALL I COULD DO WITH IT.
LET'S MARK THIS COMPOSITE EXHIBIT NUMBER
SIX.
(THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED
TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION
EXHIBIT NO. 6 - CURTIS J. RICHARDSON
DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU, IT APPEARS
THAT YOU INVITED MR. REED TO SERVE ON SOME KIND OF
A COUNCIL FOR THE WETLAND CENTER. CAN YOU TELL ME
WHAT THAT WAS?
A. YES. WE -- THE WETLAND CENTER WAS DEVELOPING A
COUNCIL. AS PART OF THE MISSION, AS I MENTIONED
TO YOU, THE UNIVERSITY REQUIRED THAT WE HAVE
CERTAIN GOALS AND MISSIONS. AND ONE OF THE
ASPECTS OF THAT WOULD BE TO -- THAT WE MENTIONED
WAS, IN FACT, BECOME INVOLVED WITH ENVIRONMENTAL
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 413
WETLAND ISSUES AROUND THE COUNTRY. AND TO HELP US
IN OVERSEEING AND SELECTING PROJECTS AND DOING
THINGS, WE WERE TO ESTABLISH A COUNCIL. AND SO WE
STARTED THAT PROCESS IN 1990.
Q. DID YOU, IN FACT, FORM A COUNCIL?
A. NO, WE HAVE NOT COMPLETED THE FORMATION OF A
COUNCIL, AS A MATTER OF FACT.
Q. IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR REASON?
A. WELL, SEVERAL. ONE, WE DID HAVE A NUMBER OF
INDIVIDUALS FROM BOTH PRIVATE SECTOR, AND
GOVERNMENT, AND INDUSTRY LINED UP; HOWEVER, OUR
ADMINISTRATION CHANGED IN THE SCHOOL, AND THEY
DECIDED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO CREATE A SCHOOL OF
THE ENVIRONMENT COUNCIL, WHICH THEY HAVE DONE.
I'M NOT SURE IT'S CALLED A COUNCIL, BUT THEY HAVE
A LARGER -- AND THERE WAS A RE -- COMPLETE
REORGANIZATION OF THE SCHOOL. A NEW BUILDING WAS
BEING DEVELOPED; NUMBERS OF INDIVIDUALS WERE BEING
ASKED TO SERVE ON DUPLICATE BOARDS; AND SO,
ALLY, THIS WAS PUT ON HOLD UNTIL THE SCHOOL
BASIC COULD RE-SORT AND REORGANIZE. AND IT'S OUR
INTENTION TO COMPLETE THIS, BUT WE HAVE NOT -- IN
FACT, WE HAVE MADE SEVERAL ATTEMPTS SINCE THAT
POINT. THE NEW DEAN HAS GIVEN ME THE GO-AHEAD TO
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 414
SAY THAT WE PROBABLY WILL DO THIS IN THE NEAR
FUTURE, BUT WE HAVEN'T.
Q. DID MR. REED EVER ACCEPT OR DECLINE YOUR
INVITATION?
A. HE -- I THINK HIS WORDS TO ME WERE -- WHEN I MET
WITH HIM AT HOBE SOUND WAS, IT WAS A GOOD IDEA; HE
WAS APPRECIATIVE OF BEING CONSIDERED; HE WAS
EXTREMELY BUSY; HE MIGHT CONSIDER IT SOME TIME IN
THE FUTURE.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU MENTION IN HERE THAT YOU
INTEND TO WORK WITH THE DISTRICT TO DEVELOP BEST
MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR THE WETLANDS, AND I THINK
I'VE SEEN THAT IN YOUR WRITING SEVERAL PLACES. IN
RICHARDSON EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE, WHEN YOU TALK
ABOUT RESEARCH, YOU TALK ABOUT DOING RESEARCH FOR
BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR FORESTRY AND
AGRICULTURE IN OR ADJACENT TO WETLANDS.
A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.)
Q. IS THIS A -- SORT OF A UNIQUE CONCEPT THAT YOU
WOULD DO BMPIS FOR A WETLAND ITSELF? FOR THE
NATURAL AREA, YOU WOULD DO THE BMP AS OPPOSED TO
THE, LET'S SAY, INDUSTRIAL OR OTHER USE ADJACENT
TO THE NATURAL AREA. DO YOU UNDERSTAND MY
QUESTION?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 415
A. ARE YOU -- NOT COMPLETELY. ARE YOU ASKING -- GO
AHEAD, REPHRASE IT, PLEASE.
Q. ALL RIGHT.
A. CAN I SEE THE DOCUMENT THAT YOU'RE---
Q. SURE. SURE. I'M REFERRING TO OVER HERE, RESEARCH
IS NEEDED TO -- AND IT'S THE ONE, TWO -- THIRD
BULLET DOWN.
A. OKAY.
(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)
A. YES. "DEVELOP BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR
FORESTRY AND AGRICULTURE IN OR ADJACENT TO
WETLANDS."
Q. RIGHT.
A. OKAY.
Q. RIGHT. BUT YOU HAVE PROPOSED IN YOUR LETTER TO
MR. REED, AND ELSEWHERE -- I MEAN, YOU'VE BEEN
HONEST IN YOUR DEPOSITION -- THAT'S WHAT YOU
PROPOSED TO DO WAS BMP'S FOR THE ACTUAL NATURAL
AREAS THEMSELVES.
A. ARE YOU ASKING WHAT'S SO, WHAT IS YOUR
QUESTION?
Q. THE QUESTION IS, ISN'T THAT A RATHER UNIQUE
CONCEPT THAT YOU WOULD DO A BMP FOR A NATURAL
AREA?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 416
A. WELL, I DON'T THINK IT SAYS NATURAL AREA HERE, IT
SAYS---
Q. NO. IT SAYS NATURAL AREA IN YOUR LETTER TO
MR. REED AND IN OTHER DOCUMENTS.
A. WELL, LET ME -- WHERE DO WE SEE THAT? SHOW ME
THAT, PLEASE.
Q. THAT'S IN RICHARDSON EXHIBIT NUMBER SIX.
A. OKAY. WHERE IS THAT?
Q. THE END OF THE FIRST PARAGRAPH. "REST ASSURED
THAT OUR RESEARCH FINDINGS WILL BE AVAILABLE TO
ALL AND MADE PUBLIC AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. IN
ADDITION, WE WILL WORK WITH THE SOUTH FLORIDA
WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT TO DEVELOP THE BEST
MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR THE WETLANDS.''
A. WELL---
Q. BUT, IN FAIRNESS, DR. RICHARDSON, LET ME TELL YOU
THE BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES APPEARS THROUGHOUT
YOUR DOCUMENTS. I MEAN, I CAN FIND IT OTHER
PLACES.
A. OH, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. I JUST---
Q. RIGHT.
A. --- YOU SAID -- I THOUGHT YOU SAID FOR NATURAL
WETLANDS. I DON'T SEE WHERE IT SAYS NATURAL
WETLANDS HERE. THAT'S MY POINT.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 417
Q. OH, YOU DON'T CONSIDER THE WATER CONSERVATION
AREAS NATURAL AREAS?
A. NOT ANY MORE.
Q. OKAY.
A. I MEAN, THEY ARE WETLANDS, BUT THEY ARE NOT---
Q. RIGHT.
A. --- IN THEIR ORIGINAL NATURAL STATE. THAT'S WHY I
WAS LOOKING FOR THE WORD NATURAL. FOR A WETLANDS,
YOU CAN HAVE BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR
WETLANDS AS WELL AS YOU HAVE FOREST LANDS. A
PERFECT CASE IN POINT IS WE HAVE BEEN WORKING
WITH WEYERHAEUSER. AS YOU MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW,
PINE PLANTATIONS ARE TECHNICALLY WETLANDS, AND
BOTTOM LAND HARDWOOD FORESTS AND SO FORTH, WHICH
ARE FORESTRY PRACTICES. THERE ARE -- THEY ARE
SYSTEMS THAT CAN BE NATURAL, OR MANAGED, OR
MANMADE, AND THEY ARE CONSIDERED WETLANDS, AND YOU
CAN COME UP WITH BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR
THOSE PARTICULAR SYSTEMS, AND THEY ARE LEGALLY
DEFINED AS WETLANDS.
Q. THE FORESTRY THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ARE THOSE
INDUSTRY-RELATED ACTIVITIES WHERE A CERTAIN AMOUNT
OF TIMBER IS REMOVED FROM THE LAND, A CERTAIN
AMOUNT IS LEFT, A CERTAIN AMOUNT IS REPLANTED?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 418
A. IN SOME CASES, YES.
Q. OKAY. BUT IN ANY PLACES WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO
MAINTAIN NATURAL AREAS, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH,
LIKE, BMP'S FOR THOSE NATURAL AREAS? THAT WAS MY
QUESTION, REALLY.
A. WELL, WE HOPE TO DEVELOP SOME BMP'S RELATED TO --
THERE IS NO REASON THAT YOU COULDN'T COME UP WITH
MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR WETLANDS SYSTEMS.
Q. SO, THIS IS SORT OF A UNIQUE IDEA AT THE CENTER
THAT HASNFT REALLY---
A. I THINK THAT'S ONE OF -- PROBABLY ONE OF THE AREAS
WE WOULD LIKE TO PURSUE.
Q. OKAY. OVER IN YOUR LETTER OF JULY 1990, AGAIN TO
MR. REED, YOU'VE SENT HIM A COPY OF YOUR FIRST
ANNUAL REPORT, AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU'RE GOING
TO QUANTIFY THE PHOSPHORUS STORAGE POTENTIAL, AND
DETERMINE IMPORTANT MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES FOR THE
ECOSYSTEM. AND I GUESS I WOULD ASK YOU WHAT THE
IMPORTANT MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES THAT YOU HAVE
DEVELOPED FOR THE EVERGLADES ARE?
A. WELL, AS I -- THE INFORMATION I HAVE TO DATE, WE,
BASICALLY, IN TERMS OF MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES,
WOULD BE TO LOOK AT THE -- THE PRIMARY ONE WOULD
BE HOW TO REDISTRIBUTE THE WATER RELATED TO THE
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUXE I PAGE 419
SURFACE FLOW OF THESE PARTICULAR SYSTEMS. THAT
WOULD BE ONE AS RELATES TO SORT OF THIS LANDSCAPE
REVIEW.
Q. YOU'RE JUST BEGINNING THAT, THOUGH, AREN'T YOU?
A. WELL, I'VE COMPILED INFORMATION ON IT; I HAVEN'T
PULLED THAT ALL TOGETHER. AND THEN, IN TERMS OF
MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES, I THINK WE WILL TRY TO --
WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT PHOSPHORUS STORAGE
POTENTIAL, AND, AS IT RELATES TO MANAGEMENT OF
THESE SYSTEMS, I BELIEVE ONE OF THE IMPORTANT
ASPECTS WAS TO DETERMINE IF AND HOW LONG
PHOSPHORUS COULD BE STORED IN THOSE SYSTEMS,
AS I FELT THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT AREA TO TAKE A
LOOK AT.
Q. AND YOU'VE DECIDED HOW LONG CAN IT BE STORED?
A. WELL, I DON'T HAVE AN EXACT YEAR OR DATE ON HOW
LONG IT CAN BE STORED. IT SEEMS TO BE -- IF
IT'S -- I THINK I CAME UP WITH A FAIRLY INFORMED
APPROACH ON HOW TO BASICALLY LOOK AT PEAT
ACCRETION AND PHOSPHORUS STORAGE FOR THAT SYSTEM,
AND A MECHANISM THAT BASICALLY INDICATES THAT IF
YOU CAN MAINTAIN REASONABLE HYDROLOGY, YOU CAN
STORE IT FOR AN INFINITE LONG PERIOD OF TIME. I
CAN'T SAY EXACTLY HOW LONG.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 420
Q. HAVE YOU DONE THE MODELING FOR THE HYDROLOGY SO
THAT YOU COULD SAY TO THE DISTRICT THIS IS THE
PRECISE HYDROLOGY THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO USE WITH
THESE AREAS TO MAINTAIN THEM IN AT LEAST THEIR
CURRENT CONDITION?
A. WE HAVE STARTED TO DO SOME OF THAT MODELING.
Q. WHO IS DOING THAT MODELING FOR YOU?
A. I'M HAVING A STUDENT WORK PRIMARILY ON THAT
MODELING.
Q. WHICH STUDENT IS THIS?
A. WELL, IT'S A CO-STUDENT OF MINE AND DR. RECKHOW'S,
SONG.
Q. SONG. OKAY. WHEN WILL THAT WORK BE COMPLETED?
A. I'M NOT SURE. HE IS -- HE'S COMPLETED THE
LITERATURE REVIEW AND SOME DATA COMPILATIONS, AND
I THINK HE HAS DONE SOME FIRST OR SECOND CUTS ON
SOME OF THE DATA.
Q. OKAY. WHAT MODEL ARE YOU GOING TO USE FOR THIS?
A. WELL, RIGHT NOW, THE FIRST CUT ON IT IS MORE OF A
BEYSIAN STATISTICAL ANALYSIS AS IT RELATES TO THE
ACTUAL WATER QUALITY DATA, AND THE HYDROLOGY, AND
THE INPUTS AND OUTPUTS, AND FOR THE SPECIFICS OF
THAT. I COULD GIVE YOU SOME TERMS, BUT IT
WOULDN'T MEAN A WHOLE LOT.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 421
Q. NO, YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT I WOULD ASK YOU TO PLEASE
DO IT IN LAYMAN'S LANGUAGE. I MEAN, I IMAGINE
THERE IS A SPECIFIC HYDROLOGIC MODEL THAT YOU
WOULD NEED TO USE.
A. WELL, WE'RE DEVELOPING A HYDROLOGIC MODEL---
Q. YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD YOUR OWN MODEL---
A. --- AND THEY'RE DEVELOP---
Q. --- FOR THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT
DISTRICT?
A. NO, NO, FOR A SPECIFIC COMPONENT. WE ARE
DEVELOPING SOMETHING FOR WATER CONSERVATION AREA
2A, PRIMARILY.
Q. SO, YOU ARE DEVELOPING A WATER MODEL FOR 2A, THAT
YOU BELIEVE THAT IF THIS WATER MODEL WERE USED --
I MEAN, JUST SO I'M -- SO I MAKE SURE WE'RE ON THE
SAME WAVELENGTH -- 2A WOULD REMAIN, IN YOUR
OPINION, IN ITS PRESENT STATE. IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. THAT'S NOT THE OVERALL GOAL. THE GOAL OF THE
MODEL AT THE PRESENT STAGE RIGHT NOW IS TO TRY TO
UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HYDROLOGY AND
WATER QUALITY. AND THE SECOND PHASE, THE SPECIFIC
GOALS OF THAT MODEL, WHICH ARE TO BE DETERMINED --
THERE MAY BE ANOTHER PHASE -- REALLY ARE UNDER THE
DIRECTION OF DR. RECKHOW, NOT MYSELF.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 422
Q. OKAY. SO, THE FIRST PHASE IS YOU'RE STILL TRYING
TO SEPARATE OUT THIS ISSUE THAT YOU'RE NOT EVEN
SURE WE CAN SEPARATE OUT, HYDROLOGY AND WATER
QUALITY, IS THAT RIGHT?
A. WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME -- WE'RE TRYING TO TEASE OUT
SOME COMPONENTS WITH A LIMITED DATABASE THAT IS
AVAILABLE. WE'RE TRYING TO BASICALLY SEE IF
THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP, FOR EXAMPLE, BETWEEN WATER
DEPTH AND WATER QUALITY, AND FLOW AND WATER
QUALITY, AND SOME OTHER ASPECTS OF THAT.
Q. SO, YOU'RE REALLY AT A VERY EARLY STAGE OF A
RESEARCH PROJECT?
A. FAIRLY EARLY IN THAT, YEAH. HE'S BEEN WORKING ON
THAT A NUMBER OF MONTHS, BUT---
Q. DO YOU THINK THIS WILL TAKE SEVERAL YEARS?
A. I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA. DR. RECKHOW WOULD HAVE A
BETTER IDEA, BECAUSE THE LAST FEW MEETINGS THAT
SONG HAS MADE UPDATES ON HIS PROGRESS, I HAVE NOT
ATTENDED; I HAVE BEEN AT DEPOSITIONS.
Q. DR. RECKHOWFS WORK THAT HE'S DOING ON THIS, DO YOU
BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL BE USED IN THESE PARTICULAR
PROCEEDINGS IF IT'S COMPLETED, PHASE TWO?
A. WHAT'S THE LAST PART, PHASE TWO? YOU'VE GOT ME ON
THAT.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 423
Q. WELL, YOU SAID PHASE ONE WAS BEING DONE BY---
A. OH, PHASE TWO.
Q. --- SONG ON HYDROLOGY AND WATER QUALITY. YOU
HAVEN'T REALLY TOLD ME WHAT DR. RECKHOW IS DOING
ON PHASE TWO, I DON'T THINK; OR IF YOU DID, I
MISSED IT SOMEHOW.
A. I AM -- AS I SAID, I'VE MISSED -- WE HAD SOME
EARLY MEETINGS TO -- MY ROLE IN THIS HAS BEEN
PRIMARILY TO HELP SONG UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM,
AND TO PROVIDE WHAT DATA I COULD, AND TO HELP
HIM LOCATE SOME OTHER DATA.
DR. RECKHOW HAS BEEN PRIMARILY THE MODELING
PERSON FOCUSING ON THIS. AND I HAVE BEEN --
WELL, I'VE BEEN THERE SORT OF AS A -- AS AN
EXPERIMENTALIST AND AS AN ECOLOGIST, TO TRY TO
BASICALLY GUIDE THEM IN TERMS OF WHETHER THIS
MAKES ANY REASONABLE -- AS YOU KNOW -- YOU KNOW,
REASONABLE SENSE. MODELERS CAN MAKE MODELS,
BUT THEY MAY NOT SIMULATE THE SYSTEM ACCURATELY.
Q. OH, I COULD SAY WITH SOME CERTAINTY THEY MAY NEVER
MAKE SENSE TO SOME OF US, BUT---
A. BUT, IN ANY CASE -- SO HE IS -- HE HAS MADE SOME
PROGRESS, BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN THE LAST TWO
PRESENTATIONS, SO I DON'T---
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 424
Q. SO, REALLY, THERE'S NOT LIKE TWO PHASES IN THE
SENSE THAT YOU DO ONE TASK, AND THEN THERE'S A
WHOLE SEPARATE SET OF TASKS. IT'S ALL THE
BUILDING OF THIS MODEL, AND YOU'RE JUST SIMPLY
DOING THE DATA INPUT AND THE ECOLOGICAL CONCERNS,
AND THEN DR. RECKHOW---
A. INTERPRETATION.
Q. --- IS GOING TO DO -- INTERPRETATION OF WHAT, THE
DATA?
A. WELL, INTERPRETATION OF WHICH DATA WOULD BE
APPROPRIATE, AND WHETHER IT MAKES ECOLOGICAL
SENSE.
Q. OKAY. WHICH DATA ARE YOU DIRECTING MR. SONG TO
IS IT DR. SONG OR MR. SONG?
A. MR. SONG.
Q. MR. SONG.
A. QIAN.
Q. MR. QIAN SONG?
A. NO -- WELL, IT WOULD BE QIAN SONG IN CHINA, BUT
IT'S SONG QIAN HERE.
Q. SORRY. MR. QIAN. WHICH DATA?
A. MOST OF IT COMES FROM THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT'S FILES.
Q. ARE THEY IN THE SWIM PLAN?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 425
A. THIS DATA?
Q. YES, SIR.
A. SOME COMPONENTS OF IT ARE, I THINK.
Q. COULD I HAND YOU THE SWIM PLAN AND YOU COULD TELL
ME WHICH ONES YOU'RE DIRECTING HIM TO USE?
A. THE RAW DATA WOULD NOT BE, I DON'T BELIEVE, IN THE
SWIM PLAN.
Q. I'M HANDING YOU -- LET ME JUST PUT IT ON THE
RECORD -- THE SUPPORTING INFORMATION DOCUMENT AND
THE APPENDICES. TAKE YOUR CHOICE WHERE YOU THINK
THIS DATA MIGHT APPEAR.
(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)
A. WELL, THE RAW DATA -- MY CURSORY VIEW OF THESE
DOCUMENTS---
Q. WELL, TAKE YOUR TIME, BECAUSE WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT
YOU'RE BUILDING THIS MODEL -- THE DATA YOU'RE
BUILDING IT FROM, BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT WILL BE USED. AT LEAST FROM THE
NAMES YOU'RE NAMING AND THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT, I WOULD ASSUME THIS IS GOING TO BE USED IN
OUR SWIM CHALLENGE PROCEEDINGS ---
A. TO MY KNOWLEDGE---
Q. --- AND NOBODY'S SAYING NO AROUND THE TABLE,
SO ---
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 426
A. --- TO MY KNOWLEDGE, IT WILL NOT BE. THIS IS
SOME---
Q. THEY'RE NOT SAYING NO, DR. RICHARDSON. THAT'S A
PRETTY GOOD SIGN, IT'S FREE AIM---
A. WELL, TO MY---
Q. --- THERE ARE CLUES HERE.
A. THIS PROJECT IS PRIMARILY BEING RUN, FIRST OF ALL,
AS A GRADUATE STUDENT PROJECT TO BASICALLY DO A
Ph.D. DISSERTATION ON---
Q. OKAY.
A. --- SO---
Q. WELL, I MEAN, IF MR. GREEN OR MR. BURGESS WANT TO
TELL ME THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TESTIFY FROM THE
BASIS OF IT, OR THAT DR. RECKHOW ISN'T GOING TO,
THEN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T NEED TO GO SO FAR DOWN
THIS ROAD---
A. WELL, I---
Q. --- THEY'RE LETTING ME CHASE A BLIND ALLEY, IS WHAT
IT LOOKS LIKE. BUT, ANYWAY---
A. IN ANY CASE, THE RAW DATA TO SUPPORT THIS IS NOT
HERE -- SOME OUTPUT DATA. THE ONE THING I DO
KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IN ONE OF OUR EARLY MEETINGS
WAS, I GAVE SONG A CHARGE, COULD YOU TAKE THE
ORIGINAL DATA FROM THE SWIM PLAN, APPENDIX B, FOR
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 427
EXAMPLE, LIKE, ON PAGE -- THIS IS NOT THE -- I'M
NOT GIVING YOU THE -- ANYTHING MORE THAN A TEST
THAT I GAVE HIM TO SEE IF HE COULD START WITH,
COULD YOU REPRODUCE, FOR EXAMPLE, ON PAGE B-148---
Q. I DON'T NEED HIS TEST. I NEED THE ACTUAL DATA,
DR. RICHARDSON.
A. BUT IT'S -- THE DATA'S NOT HERE.
Q. IT'S NOT IN THE SWIM PLAN?
A. NO. THIS IS THE OUTPUT; THIS IS NOT THE DATA.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. TELL ME WHICH DATA AT THE
DISTRICT YOU DIRECTED HIM TO USE, OR SUGGESTED
THAT HE USE, OR APPROVE THAT HE USE -- THE NAME
OF IT.
A. OH. THE DATA WOULD BE THE INFLOWS AND OUTFLOWS,
ALL OF THOSE FROM WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A, THE
RAINFALL DATA.
Q. FROM 2A?
A. FROM 2A. ANY SURFACE WATER DATA THAT WE COULD
OBTAIN IN TERMS OF SURFACE WATER QUALITY; SOME OF
MY DATA THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE RELATED TO
THE---
Q. WHICH OF YOUR DATA?
A. SOME SURFACE WATER QUALITY. HE IS NOW PERUSING
THAT AT THIS POINT, I BELIEVE, BUT I'M NOT SURE
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 428
WHAT HE'S GOING TO INCLUDE OR NOT INCLUDE OF MY
DATA.
Q. IS YOURS ORTHO? IS YOUR SURFACE WATER
ORTHOPHOSPHATE?
A. IT IS MOSTLY ORTHO.
Q. AND THEIRS IS TOTAL PHOSPHORUS FOR THE DISTRICT --
THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT?
A. I THINK IT'S BOTH, IN SOME CASES. THERE ARE
SOME -- IT'S BOTH. SO---
Q. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? YOUR SURFACE WATER QUALITY,
ORTHOPHOSPHATE DATA. WHAT ELSE?
A. WELL, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT ALL ASPECTS OF OUR
DATA. WE MAY LOOK AT SOME PORE WATER DATA. WE
MAY LOOK -- WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT ACCRETION
INFORMATION. SO, WE ARE TRYING TO BASICALLY GET
A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW WATER CONSERVATION
AREA 2A FUNCTIONS, AND SEE IF WE CAN DEVELOP---
Q. IS THIS PART OF YOUR -- ARE YOU GOING TO BASE PART
OF YOUR LANDSCAPE REVIEW ON THIS OR IS THIS A
SEPARATE -- TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUE?
A. IT'S ONLY ONE PIECE. I DOUBT -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T
KNOW IF IT WILL BE FAR ENOUGH ALONG TO DO ANYTHING
WITH AT THAT TIME. AND THIS IS TRULY A Ph.D.
DISSERTATION.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 429
Q. WHAT PARAMETERS IS THE MODEL GOING TO TRY AND
PREDICT?
A. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE CURRENT VERSION IS GOING TO
PREDICT. THAT'S UNDER DR. RECKHOW'S CHARGE. WE
ORIGINALLY -- I THINK THE ORIGINAL ONE THAT I TOLD
YOU WAS TO LOOK AT SURFACE WATER QUALITY IN
RELATIONSHIP TO WATER CHARACTERISTICS.
Q. DID YOU TALK ABOUT THE DEPTH AND FLOW?
A. DEPTH AND FLOW; INFLOW, OUTFLOW, RAINFALL.
Q. SO -- JUST SO I'M STRAIGHT, YOUR IMPORTANT
MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES THAT YOU HAVE PRESENTLY
DETERMINED BASICALLY INVOLVE FOCUSING ON THE TYPE
OF RESEARCH AND THE TYPE OF MODELING THAT YOU
BELIEVE WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE MANAGEMENT
OF 2A, REALLY?
A. YES. IT'S GOING TO BE BASED, TO A LARGE DEGREE,
ON OUR -- WHEN WE FINISH OUR FIVE- TO SIX-YEAR
STUDY, WE EXPECT TO HAVE SPECIFIC MANAGEMENT
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COULD INCLUDE, AS YOU KNOW,
FROM THE DOSING STUDY, WHAT MIGHT BE INAPPROPRIATE
RANGE OF VALUES. WE MAY HAVE THE EFFECTS OF MASS
LOADING, THE STORAGE CAPACITIES.
IT'S HOPED THAT WE WILL HAVE SOME HYDROLOGY
INFORMATION. AND IT IS ALSO -- AND, AS I
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 430
MENTIONED TO YOU, IT WAS HOPED TO HAVE A FIREWATER
NUTRIENT INTERACTION STUDY, WHICH WE OBVIOUSLY
HAVE NOT DONE AT THIS POINT, BUT I THINK THAT IS
CRITICAL TO UNDERSTANDING HOW TO MANAGE THESE
SYSTEMS.
Q. YOU SAID APPROPRIATE RANGE OF VALUES. FOR WHAT?
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
A. NUTRIENT VALUES, PRIMARILY, LOOKING AT BOTH THE
GRADIENT STUDY, THE FERTILIZER STUDY AND THE
DOSING STUDY, TO TRY TO PIECE TOGETHER THE
INFORMATION TO COME UP WITH WHAT I THINK WOULD BE
PREDICTIVE OR REPRESENTATIVE VALUES FOR HOW THE
SYSTEM RESPONDS TO THOSE, BOTH LOADS AND
CONCENTRATION.
Q. TOWARD WHAT GOAL, DR. RICHARDSON?
A. TOWARDS WHAT GOAL?
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. TO TRY TO DETERMINE, PROBABLY IN ONE CASE, A DOSE
RESPONSE; IN ONE CASE, TO TRY TO DETERMINE THE
LEVELS THAT WOULD CAUSE A CHANGE -- A SIGNIFICANT
CHANGE IN THE SYSTEM.
Q. BUT TOWARD WHAT GOAL? WHY DO WE EVEN CARE WHAT
LEVELS ARE COMING IN? I MEAN, I THINK BEFORE
LUNCH, WE CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE HAD
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUXE I PAGE 431
SOME AREAS THAT HAD CHANGED BECAUSE OF NUTRIENT
ENRICHMENT, BUT THEY HAD BENEFITS AND THEY HAD
VALUE AS HABITAT, AND THERE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE
ANYTHING NECESSARILY INAPPROPRIATE OR NEGATIVE
ABOUT THOSE. I MEAN, IT SEEMED TO ME FROM OUR
DISCUSSION THIS WAS OKAY, THAT A HUNDRED AND FIFTY
PARTS PER BILLION TOTAL PHOSPHORUS WAS COMING IN,
THAT IT HAD CAUSED CERTAIN CHANGES IN THE SYSTEM
AND SO WHAT?
MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
MR. BURGESS: I JOIN IN THAT TOO.
A. YEAH. I'M NOT SURE -- THE QUESTION. I DONFT
BELIEVE I SAID---
MR. BURGESS: "SO WHAT."
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) "SO WHAT"-;'
A. SO WHAT, OR A HUNDRED AND FIFTY PARTS PER BILLION
WAS GOOD OR ANYTHING.
Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THOSE NUTRIENT LOADS NEED TO
BE REDUCED FROM A HUNDRED AND FIFTY?
A. I THINK I SAID FAIRLY CLEARLY THAT I THOUGHT THAT
I HAD RECOMMENDED EARLY ON THAT THE BMP SHOULD BE
PUT IN PLACE AND THAT PHOSPHORUS SHOULD BE REDUCED
TO AS LOW A LEVEL AS POSSIBLE TO THE SYSTEM, BUT
WHAT LEVEL THAT IS, I DO NOT KNOW.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 432
Q. OKAY. THAT'S THE -- SO LOWERING THE NUTRIENT
INPUT, YOU WILL AGREE, IS AN APPROPRIATE GOAL?
A. YES, I AGREE THAT'S A GOAL.
Q. OKAY. WHAT WE ARE IN DISAGREEMENT ABOUT IS TO
WHAT LEVEL IT SHOULD BE LOWERED.
A. I DON'T PARTICULARLY DISAGREE. I DON'T KNOW THE
ANSWER TO THAT AT THE MOMENT, BUT WHEN WE FIND OUT
WHAT WE THINK THE RANGE IS, WE MAY THEN BE IN
DISAGREEMENT. I'M NOT SURE. WE MAY BE IN
AGREEMENT.
Q. BUT I ALSO UNDERSTOOD YOU TO SAY BEFORE LUNCH THAT
YOU FEEL NO URGENCY OR IMMEDIACY TO OBTAINING THIS
ANSWER?
A. WELL, I EXPECT TO DO IT WITHIN THE TIME FRAME IN
WHICH THE ORIGINAL GRANT WAS SET UP. I DON'T
EXPECT -- THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS DOES NOT,
UNFORTUNATELY, BEND TO THE LEGAL SYSTEM VERY
EASILY. SO, AS WE GET INFORMATION ALONG THE WAY,
WE WILL PROVIDE IT WITH THE ESTIMATOR -- THE SORT
OF COMFORT INTERVALS WE HAVE AROUND IT, AND I
THINK WE HAVE DONE SO. WHEN WE DON'T HAVE IT, I
THINK THAT'S WHERE THE HESITANCY IS, AS IT WOULD
BE FOR MOST SCIENTISTS, IS SIMPLY GUESS AS TO WHAT
IT WOULD BE. SO, I THINK WE ARE MAKING EXTREMELY
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 433
GOOD PROGRESS TOWARDS THIS.
Q. AND WHY IS IT THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD
REDUCE THESE NUTRIENT INPUTS OR PHOSPHORUS --
SPECIFICALLY, PHOSPHORUS INPUTS TO, LET'S SAY,
WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A, FOR EXAMPLE?
A. WELL, AS I THINK I SAID, TO 2A, YOU KNOW, AS I
SAID, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU REDUCED THEM
SIGNIFICANTLY, IT WOULD MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE IN
THE LONG RUN TO THE SYSTEM RIGHT NOW. I THINK YOU
COULD CONTINUE -- I THINK THEY SHOULD BE REDUCED
FROM THE SOURCE IN THE SENSE THAT THE AGRICULTURAL
COMMUNITY PROBABLY HAS THE ABILITY TO DO SOME OF
THAT, AND THEY COULD DO IT WITHIN SITE. AND
THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A VERY LARGE PUBLIC PERCEPTION
IN THE NUMBER OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE IDEA
THAT, IN FACT, THESE SYSTEMS ARE BEING DISTURBED
BY THIS.
Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THESE SYSTEMS ARE DISTURBED BY THE
NUTRIENT INPUT?
I BELIEVE THERE IS SOME ALTERATION THAT TAKES
PLACE, YES.
Q. IS THAT A DISTURBANCE?
A. IT COULD BE CONSIDERED DISTURBANCE IN SOME CASES.
Q. DO YOU CONSIDER IT A DISTURBANCE?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 434
A. YES. BUT, AS I MENTIONED, I DON'T THINK IT'S A
MAJOR PROBLEM. IT'S A MUCH -- IT'S A LOCALIZED
PROBLEM.
Q. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAVE CONSISTENTLY SAID TODAY
THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT THE NUTRIENTS SHOULD BE
CONTROLLED AT THE SOURCE. IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. I BELIEVE THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IS -- ONE OF THE
WAYS TO DO THAT IS TO CONTROL IT AT THE SOURCE.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU HAVE LIMITED POSSIBILITIES
OF HOW TO DO THAT. THAT RESEARCH NEEDS TO BE
DONE.
Q. OKAY. IN YOUR OPINION, HAS THAT RESEARCH BEEN
DONE?
A. TO DO IT AT THE SOURCE?
Q. YES, SIR.
A. I'M NOT AWARE OF -- I KNOW OF SOME ONGOING
STUDIES, BUT I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY ANSWERS THAT
HAVE COME OUT OF THAT RESEARCH.
Q. HAVE YOU DONE, IN THE PAST -- IN ANY OF YOUR
OTHER EXPERIENCE OR EVEN IN THIS, IN LOOKING AT
IT, HAVE YOU DONE ANY THOUGHT ABOUT ECONOMIES OF
SCALE WHERE IT MIGHT BE CHEAPER TO DO IT IN MAYBE
ONE LARGE AREA AS OPPOSED TO AT EVERY SOURCE
OUTPUT? DO YOU UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 435
A. YES. I'M NOT SURE IF I UNDERSTAND, THOUGH. I
DON'T THINK I'D RECOMMEND THAT IT BE DONE AT EVERY
SOURCE, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT EVERY FIELD. I'm
NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY "SOURCE." DO YOU MEAN
EVERY SINGLE FIELD IT WOULD BE DONE AT, OR EVERY
SINGLE---
Q. WELL, WHERE DO YOU RECOMMEND? WHEN YOU SAY "AT
THE SOURCE," I GUESS I THINK OF THE INDIVIDUAL
LANDOWNER BECOMING RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS DISCHARGE.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT REGIONAL TREATMENT SYSTEMS?
A. WELL, I THINK THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING
WITHIN REGIONS. IT COULD BE SOMETHING IN -- IF IT
WAS AN URBAN AREA THAT WAS DOING SOMETHING, THEY
WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A REGIONAL SYSTEM. IF IT WAS
AN AGRICULTURAL AREA, THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE
SOMETHING THAT WAS THERE.
ALL RIGHT. AND I ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE RECOMMENDED
THIS TO THE INDUSTRY---
MR. GREEN: OBJECTION.
Q. --- FOLLOWING YOUR INITIAL RECOMMENDATIONS EARLY
ON, BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU HAD RECOMMENDED THIS IN
THE VERY BEGINNING, DID YOU NOT?
MR. GREEN: OBJECTION.
MR. BURGESS: YEAH.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 436
MR. GREEN: OBJECTION TO THE FORM.
A. I THINK I SAID I RECOMMENDED THAT THEY LOOK INTO
BMP'S TO REDUCE THE SOURCE.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID
YOU HAD RECOMMENDED IT. HAVE YOU CONTINUED OR AT
ANY TIME SINCE THEN RECOMMENDED IT AGAIN TO THE
INDUSTRY?
A. THE BMP'S?
Q. YES.
A. YES.
Q. AND YOU HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT THEY TRY TO CONTROL
THEIR NUTRIENTS AT THE SOURCE?
A. YES.
Q. AND WHAT HAVE THEY SAID?
A. THEY ARE TRYING TO DO SO AS FAST AS THEY POSSIBLY
CAN.
Q. AND HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE TRYING TO DO SO?
A. WELL, I BELIEVE THEY'VE STARTED MONITORING ALL
OF THEIR OUTPUT SITES SO THEY GET A BETTER HANDLE
ON THE FORMS AND SOURCES OF PHOSPHORUS. I BELIEVE
THEY'VE STARTED TO UNDERTAKE A SERIES OF RESEARCH
PROJECTS TO LOOK AT SOME REMEDIAL METHODS. I
THINK THEY ARE LOOKING AT WATER PUMPING AND
REROUTING OF WATER. I---
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 437
Q. REGARDING WATER PUMPING AND REROUTING OF WATER,
DR. RICHARDSON, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY WIDESPREAD
USE OF WATER LEVEL RECORDERS WITHIN THE EAA?
A. I BELIEVE THERE MAY BE A NETWORK. I HAVE NOT
PERSONALLY SEEN THEM NOR HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH
THEM.
Q. HAVE YOU EVER -- DO YOU BELIEVE THAT CONTROL OF
THE WATER TABLE WITHIN THE EAA MIGHT BE ONE OF THE
PRIMARY BMPIS THAT THEY COULD USE TO CONTROL THEIR
NUTRIENT OUTPUT?
A. BY RAISING -- ARE YOU ASKING ME TO RAISE AND LOWER
THE WATER LEVELS WITHIN THE EAA? IS THAT WHAT---
Q. WELL, TO RAISE THEM AND NOT TO PUMP AS MUCH, NOT
TO DISCHARGE AS MUCH, TO PUMP AS LITTLE AS
POSSIBLE.
A. THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. I HAVEN'T REALLY LOOKED AT
THAT. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, BUT, I MEAN, THAT'S A
POSSIBILITY.
Q. DO YOU THINK THAT THAT MIGHT BE A MAJOR BMP THAT
COULD BE USED?
A. WELL, I THINK IF YOU -- IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THEY
ARE UNDER RESTRICTIONS. THEY CANNOT REDUCE FLOWS
BY MORE THAN A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE. SO, I THINK
THERE MUST BE A BOUND WHICH THEY CAN DO THAT ONLY
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 438
IN WHAT THEY---
Q. SO, YOU THINK THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT EXCEEDING
THEIR TWENTY PERCENT (20%), AND SO THEY ARE NOT
HOLDING BACK WATER?
MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) DO YOU KNOW, DR. RICHARDSON?
A. I DON'T -- I'M NOT PRIVY TO ANY INFORMATION ON THE
EAA. I'VE NOT BEEN AT THE EAA IN -- OTHER THAN
PROBABLY BEING CLOSE, AND I'VE NOT BEEN IN THE
FIELD IN THE EAA IN MAYBE TWO YEARS.
Q. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN IN THE FIELD EVER IN
THE EAA?
A. MAYBE A HALF A DOZEN.
Q. SIX TIMES IN---
A. MAYBE. SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
Q. --- THREE AND A HALF YEARS? HAVE YOU EVER
DISCUSSED THESE WATER LEVEL RECORDERS WITH THE
INDUSTRY?
A. NO.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY ACTUAL BMPIS THAT YOU
KNOW FOR A FACT ARE BEING IMPLEMENTED?
A. I CAN'T REMEMBER. I THINK I WAS AT THAT MEETING,
THE SAGE MEETING WHERE SOME BMPIS WERE PROPOSED.
AND I, QUITE FRANKLY, CAN'T TELL YOU WHICH ONES
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 439
THEY WERE IMPLEMENTING AND WHICH ONES THEY WERE
PROPOSING TO IMPLEMENT. BUT THERE WERE A NUMBER
LISTED. I BELIEVE FOREST IZUNO MENTIONED AT ONE
OF THE MEETINGS -- I QUITE OFTEN GET
PRESENTATIONS, AS YOU KNOW, TO THE EVERGLADES
PROTECTION DISTRICT. AND HE QUITE OFTEN COMPLAINS
ABOUT FOLLOWING ME, I GUESS. BUT HE ALSO, THEN --
HE QUITE OFTEN TALKS ABOUT THE PROJECTS THAT HE
HAS AND SOME BMP'S AND MATERIALS AND THINGS
THEY'RE DOING.
Q. THESE ARE PROPOSALS, THOUGH. THESE ARE NOT THINGS
THAT YOU KNOW ARE ACTUALLY BEING IMPLEMENTED?
A. MY LAST UNDERSTANDING IS, IN A MEETING I MADE
AT A PRESENTATION I MADE IN NOVEMBER, HE WAS
THERE TALKING ABOUT -- THIS IS A RECOLLECTION
THAT HE HAD IN PLACE THESE RECORDERS AND THEY
WERE DOING COLLECTIONS, AND HAD BEEN DOING
COLLECTIONS.
Q. I WOULD LIKE TO HAND YOU ANOTHER DOCUMENT THAT WAS
PRODUCED AMONG YOUR FILES---
WITNESS: WOULD YOU LIKE THESE BACK?
MS. PONZOLI: SURE.
WITNESS: JUST GIVE ME SOME BREATHING
ROOM OVER HERE.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 440
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) CAN YOU IDENTIFY THIS DOCUMENT,
DR. RICHARDSON?
A. THIS IS A RESEARCH NEWS BULLETIN FROM OUR SCHOOL
OF THE ENVIRONMENT.
Q. DO YOU KNOW THE APPROXIMATE DATE OF THIS? I DONFT
THINK IT'S ON HERE ANYWHERE, THAT I COULD -- MAYBE
I JUST DIDN'T LOOK HARD ENOUGH, BUT I COULDN'T
FIND IT.
A. I DON'T KNOW. IT'S SEVERAL YEARS OLD.
Q. WOULD IT HAVE COME OUT IN 188, BECAUSE IT MENTIONS
THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED A THREE HUNDRED AND
THIRTY-ONE THOUSAND ($331,000.00) GRANT FROM THE
FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE.
A. IT WOULDN'T BE '88, THEN.
Q. OKAY. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN '89?
A. I THINK IT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETIME IN 189, AT
THE EARLIEST.
Q. OKAY. SO, YOU MET WITH MR. WEDGWORTH IN LATE
SUMMER, VERY EARLY FALL OF 188, BUT YOU DIDNFT GET
YOUR GRANT UNTIL SOMETIME INTO 189?
A. THAT'S CORRECT.
Q. WHEN IN 189 DID YOU RECEIVE THE GRANT?
A. THE FIRST QUARTER -- SOMETIME IN THE FIRST
QUARTER. I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 441
Q. OKAY. AND WAS IT FOR THIS AMOUNT? IS THIS AMOUNT
ACCURATE?
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DID YOU SEE THIS ARTICLE?
MS. PONZOLI: LET'S MARK THIS AS
RICHARDSON NUMBER 7, IS IT?
(THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED
TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION
EXHIBIT NO. 7 - CURTIS J. RICHARDSON
DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
A. DID I SEE THIS ARTICLE?
Q. DID YOU SEE IT WHEN IT CAME OUT?
A. YES.
Q. IS IT ACCURATE? WAS THE ARTICLE ACCURATE? DID
YOU READ IT BEFORE IT WAS PRINTED?
A. MARY MATTHEWS, WHO IS OUR PUBLICATION EDITOR,
WROTE THIS ARTICLE, AND HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH ME.
I MAY HAVE -- IN FACT, I THINK I DID -- I PROVIDED
HER SOME PICTURES. I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE THE MAP
CAME FROM, BUT I MAY HAVE ALSO PROVIDED THAT. BUT
SHE -- SHE BASICALLY WROTE THIS AS A NEWS ITEM,
WHICH SHE DOES FOR -- IF YOU LOOK AT OUR FORMS FOR
OUR POLICY CENTER ON ECONOMICS, AND OUR FORESTRY
CENTER, AND THE WHOLE SERIES OF OUR CENTERS.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 442
Q. OKAY. IS THIS LIKE A DUKE PUBLICATION THAT
IS---
A. IT'S A QUARTERLY---
Q. --- SENT AROUND?
A. --- PUBLICATION FOR THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT.
Q. IS IT SENT AROUND TO THE ALUMNI?
A. IT'S SENT OUT, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, TO THREE TO FIVE
THOUSAND PEOPLE---
Q. OKAY.
A. --- ALUMNI, CONTRIBUTORS, FRIENDS.
Q. ALL RIGHT. IT PRESENTS IN HERE THAT YOU HAVE SAID
THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING LET'S LOOK ON
THE FAR RIGHT COLUMN, THE MIDDLE THAT YOU'RE
GOING TO LOOK AT THE LONG-TERM ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS
OF CHANGED HYDROPERIOD AND INCREASED NUTRIENT
LOADINGS, THAT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN QUANTIFIED.
THIS WAS IN '89.
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. AND THAT YOU ARE GOING TO ANSWER THREE MAJOR
QUESTIONS: WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF INCREASED
NUTRIENTS IN WATER PUT -- INPUTS ON THE NATIVE
PLANT COMMUNITIES IN THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS;
TWO, WHAT IS THE LONG-TERM NUTRIENT STORAGE
CAPACITY; AND, THREE, HOW CAN WATER MANAGEMENT
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 443
BE IMPROVED. ARE THOSE STILL THE SAME QUESTIONS
THAT YOU'RE SEEKING TO ANSWER?
A. FOR THE -- THOSE COVER THE GENERAL OVERVIEW OF THE
QUESTIONS.
Q. AND I TAKE IT THAT, AT PRESENT, YOU ONLY PARTIAL
ANSWERS TO ANY OF THESE -- IS THAT ACCURATE -- THE
ONES YOU'VE GIVEN ME OVER THE LAST TWO DAYS?
A. RIGHT. I'M SURE WE'LL GET INTO MORE DETAILS ON
SOME OF THESE, BUT WE HAVE COLLECTED AND ARE NOW
SUMMARIZING A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF INFORMATION,
ESPECIALLY ON THOSE QUESTIONS.
Q. WILL THERE BE ANOTHER REPORT, OTHER THAN THE '92
ANNUAL REPORT, THAT WILL HAVE MORE ANSWERS IN IT,
IN THE NEAR FUTURE?
A. NOT IN THE NEAR FUTURE. I MEAN, THERE WILL BE
SOME QUARTERLY REPORTS AS THEY'RE DUE, AND THERE
WILL BE SOME PUBLICATIONS THAT WILL BE COMING
FORTH.
Q. LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THESE QUARTERLY REPORTS. I
REALLY HAVE A QUESTION ON THOSE. I HAVE A COUPLE
OF QUARTERLY REPORTS HERE THAT WERE PRODUCED AMONG
YOUR EXPERT DOCUMENTS, SO I WON'T BE PASSING THESE
OUT. THEY'RE JANUARY 1992 AND SEPTEMBER 1992.
A. UH-HUH (YES).
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 444
Q. THOSE WERE PRODUCED AS EXPERT DOCUMENTS. DO YOU
RECALL WHY?
A. I HAVEN'T THE FAINTEST IDEA WHY.
Q. WELL---
MR. BURGESS: WELL, I THINK -- FOR
THE RECORD, I THINK THAT I WROTE YOU A
LETTER, SUZAN, AND SAID THOSE ARE THE
LETTER -- THOSE ARE THE DOCUMENTS THAT
CURTIS HAS IDENTIFIED FOR ME AS CONTAINING
DATA, WHICH HE WILL CONSIDER IN FORMING HIS
EXPERT OPINIONS.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) THE QUARTERLY REPORTS DON'T
CONTAIN DATA, DO THEY, DR. RICHARDSON?
A. VERY LITTLE. THEY WOULD HAVE MOSTLY UPDATES ON
PROJECTS THAT WOULD SAY THAT NUTRIENT SOIL SAMPLES
ARE CONTINUING TO BE ANALYZED, AND WE'VE COMPLETED
THE WATER SAMPLES. THEY WOULD -- THEY MAY HAVE A
FEW, WHAT I WOULD CALL, TIDBITS.
Q. ARE THEY -- ARE QUARTERLY REPORTS JUST MOSTLY,
LIKE, REPORT CARDS YOU SEND BACK TO THE CLIENT
I'M STILL WORKING ON YOUR PROJECT; THIS IS WHAT
I'M DOING?
A. BY AND LARGE. THERE MAY BE AN OCCASIONAL -- WELL,
IT DOES TWO THINGS FOR THEM. IT KEEPS THEM UP TO
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 445
WHAT WE'RE DOING ON PROJECTS. IT ALSO NOW -- AT
THE REQUEST OF THE EPD, I BELIEVE -- IN THE
QUARTERLY REPORTS, IT SAYS, IF WE GAVE ANY
PRESENTATIONS OR PUBLICATIONS, WE ARE TO INCLUDE
THOSE IN THE BACK. AND WE'VE TRIED TO NOW DO
THAT. SO, IT'S A LITTLE MORE FORMALIZED WAY
FOR THEM TO BE KEPT INFORMED OF WHAT'S GOING ON,
AS THE EPD HAS ASKED THAT THEY AT LEAST BE
NOTIFIED NOW BEFORE WE -- IF WE WERE GOING TO
MAKE PRESENTATIONS, THEY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW
ABOUT IT.
Q. I GUESS WHEN WE GET TO THOSE IN TIME, I WOULD ASK
YOU TO LOOK AT THEM AND SEE WHAT CLUES AS TO WHAT
YOU BELIEVE YOU WERE TRYING TO TELL YOUR CLIENTS,
BECAUSE THEY WERE PRODUCED AS EXPERT DOCUMENTS. I
ASSUME THERE'S SOMETHING -- SOME TIDBIT IS IN
THERE THAT I NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO, BUT I DON'T
KNOW. I'M -- THEY JUST -- THE TIDBITS WEREN'T
LEAPING OUT.
WHAT STUDIES ARE YOU DOING TO STUDY THE
EFFECT OF INCREASED WATER INPUTS ON THE NATIVE
PLANT COMMUNITIES IN THE WATER CONSERVATION
AREAS? THAT WAS UNDER NUMBER ONE, YOUR MAJOR
QUESTIONS.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 446
A. WELL, WHEN WE ORIGINALLY CONCEIVED THIS PROJECT,
AS I TOLD YOU, WE HAD THE IDEA TO DO A
FIRE-WATER-NUTRIENT INTERACTION STUDY. AND SO
THERE WERE SOME IDEAS OF WHAT WE WOULD DO IN TERMS
OF PUTTING WATER INTO THE SYSTEM. ONE, IT BECAME
VERY COMPLEX. AND TWO, WE DECIDED TO LOOK AT
THESE PROBLEM AREAS AS INDIVIDUALS. IN OTHER
WORDS, LOOK AT, SAY, PHOSPHORUS AND NITROGEN.
AND, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, AS FATE WOULD HAVE IT,
AS SOON AS WE TOOK THIS PROJECT, FOR THE FIRST TWO
YEARS THAT WE WERE IN THIS PROJECT, WE HAD RECORD
DROUGHTS. WE HAD NO WATER. I WORKED IN TENNIS
SHOES. AND SO THE CONCEPT OF SETTING UP A
HYDROLOGY STUDY TO PUMP WATER INTO AN AREA THAT
HAD NO WATER TABLE WITHIN FORTY CENTIMETERS TO
SEVENTY CENTIMETERS OF THE SURFACE WAS PRETTY
UNREACHABLE.
SO, I DID ESTABLISH THE DISTURBANCE STUDY AND
SET THAT UP FAIRLY EARLY. AND THAT STUDY IS NOW
ONGOING. THAT'S THE RECOLONIZATION WATER DEPTH
STUDY. I SET UP THE FERTILIZER STUDIES, WHICH HAS
A WATER COMPONENT TO IT. AND WE DO HAVE PLANS TO
ACTUALLY -- WE HAVE THE DOSING STUDY, OF COURSE.
WE HAVE WATER BEING PUMPED AS A CONTROL INTO ONE
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 447
SYSTEM COMPARED TO NO WATER BEING PUMPED. AND WE
HAVE FULL INTENTIONS TO GO BACK TO WHERE WE
STARTED AND LOOK AT WATER AND NUTRIENTS, AND
ESPECIALLY WATER INPUTS.
Q. ON YOUR DOSING STUDY, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO TURN
THAT INTO A STUDY THAT LOOKS AT HYDROLOGY, IN
ADDITION TO NUTRIENTS, BY CLOSING OFF YOUR
CHANNELS AND HOLDING THEM AT DIFFERENT WATER
DEPTHS?
A. THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF
RETROFITTING, BUT IT'S A POSSIBILITY, BECAUSE
THOSE ARE NOT -- THEY'RE -- IF THEY'RE POSITIVE
PRESSURE -- IN OTHER WORDS, THEY KEEP WATER FROM
COMING IN, BUT IT -- I'M NOT SURE, IF THE WATER
GOES DOWN ON THE OUTSIDE, HOW -- THEY'RE NOT
TOTALLY SEALED, AND---
Q. HAVE YOU GIVEN THOUGHT TO DOING THAT?
A. WE'VE GIVEN SOME THOUGHTS TO ACTUALLY -- WE
ACTUALLY HAVE -- IN PLANNING THIS SPRING -- SOME
THOUGHTS TO ACTUALLY DO A HYDROLOGY EXPERIMENT,
BUT NOT WITH THAT SITE. I'M NOT GOING TO TAMPER
WITH THAT SITE AT THE PRESENT TIME. IT'S BEEN SO
DIFFICULT TO GET GOING.
YOU JUST WANT TO KEEP IT GOING, HUH?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 448
A. I WOULD LIKE IT TO JUST KEEP FLOWING.
Q. TO JUST GO? ALL RIGHT. PHASE ONE, YOU WERE GOING
TO -- AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE -- REESTABLISH --
YOU WERE GOING TO LOOK FOR MEANS OF REESTABLISHING
SAWGRASS AND OTHER NATIVE PLANTS, AND WATER
IMPOUNDMENT AND RELEASE REGIMES THAT WOULD IMPROVE
WATER QUALITY. HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT?
A. WHERE ARE YOU NOW?
Q. AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. "IN PHASE ONE OF THIS
PROJECT, RICHARDSON WILL LOOK AT FACTORS
RESPONSIBLE FOR CATTAIL EXPANSION AND MEANS OF
REESTABLISHMENT OF SAWGRASS AND OTHER NATIVE
PLANTS AND WATER IMPOUNDMENT AND RELEASE REGIMES
THAT WOULD IMPROVE WATER QUALITY AS WELL AS
MAINTAIN NATIVE SPECIES."
A. WE HAVE DONE PORTIONS OF THAT WHERE WE HAVE LOOKED
AT FACTORS RELATED TO CATTAIL. WE HAVE -- AS I
SAID, WE HAVE A VEGETATION EXPANSION STUDY. THE
FERTILIZER STUDY WAS AN ATTEMPT TO LOOK AT THAT.
SINCE WE HAVE THREE SITES REPLICATED WITH
DIFFERENT WATER REGIMES, WE FELT WE COULD GET A
HANDLE ON THAT. THE---
HAVE YOU FOUND A MEANS OF REESTABLISHING SAWGRASS
AND NATIVE PLANTS?
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 449
A. WELL, AS I TOLD YOU, WE HAVE -- IN THE GRADIENT
STUDY, WE HAVE THOSE TRANSECTS AND -- AND WE
HAVEN'T REMOVED THE VEGETATION. MOTHER NATURE
MORE, IN A SENSE, DID THAT BY FIRE AND FREEZING,
BUT WE HAVE BEEN MONITORING VERY CAREFULLY THE
REESTABLISHMENT OF SOME OF THOSE PLANT
COMMUNITIES. AND THE DISTURBANCE STUDY IS SET
UP TO HAVE KILLED BASICALLY THE NATIVE SEED
BANK, AND, THEN, BASICALLY TO DETERMINE WHAT
WOULD AFFECT THE REESTABLISHMENT OF PLANTS IN
THAT AREA.
Q. SO YOU'RE STILL DOING RESEARCH ON HOW TO
REESTABLISH SAWGRASS AND OTHER NATIVES PLANTS.
is---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---THAT FAIR?
A. YEAH, WE'RE STILL DOING RESEARCH. AND WE HAVE
SOME INFORMATION. BUT I THINK, AS I SAY, IN THE
NEXT PHASES OF THIS, OUR NEXT -- WE'RE NOW INTO
THE FOURTH YEAR OF A SIX-YEAR STUDY, SO WE WILL
START PULLING THIS INFORMATION TOGETHER.
Q. ALL RIGHT. LET ME ASK YOU THIS, I JUST WANT TO
MAKE SURE WHAT YOUR TESTIMONY IS ON FIRE AND
FROST. WHERE YOU HAVE FIRE AND FROST, AND THE
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 450
SEED BANK IS NOT DESTROYED, DO YOU BELIEVE -- OR,
IN YOUR OPINION, DOES THE CATTAIL COME BACK, OR
WILL SAWGRASS REESTABLISH THAT AREA? THE CATTAIL
SEEDBANK IS STILL THERE.
A. RIGHT. AND YOU SAY, NOW, IF YOU HAVE FIRE AND
FROST, OR---
Q. RIGHT. WE CAN TAKE THEM SEPARATELY. IF YOU HAVE
ONLY ---
A. WELL ---
Q. --- FIRE, WILL THE CATTAIL COME BACK?
MR. BURGESS: AT THE SAME TIME -- I
WAS GOING TO ASK YOU.
A. I THINK TO UNDERSTAND RECOLONIZATION OF ANY SITE,
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE
THE ORDER OF WHICH IT HAPPENS. IF YOU HAD FIRE
AND FROST, IT IS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN HAVING FROST
AND FIRE---
Q. OKAY.
A. --- AND---
Q. AND WHICH IS WORSE FOR THE CATTAIL, IN YOUR
OPINION?
A. WELL, I'M NOT SURE WE'VE HAD A TEST OF BOTH OF
THOSE, BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS, WE HAD SEVERAL
SEVERE FROSTS, WHICH KNOCKED BACK THE CATTAIL.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 451
Q. IS IT COMING BACK? IS IT REGENERATING IN THOSE
AREAS?
A. TO SOME DEGREE, YES.
Q. OKAY. WOULD YOU SAY THAT THE CATTAIL IS
REGENERATING STRONGER THAN THE SAWGRASS?
A. INITIALLY, THE SITES WERE ALMOST A HUNDRED PERCENT
SAWGRASS AND MAYBE NINETY-NINE PERCENT. AND NOW
THEY ARE MOVING BACK TOWARDS FIVE PERCENT CATTAIL,
MAYBE MORE. WE HAVEN'T -- I HAVENFT SEEN THAT
DATA -- I HAVEN'T ANALYZED THAT LAST BIT OF DATA
THAT WE TOOK THIS SUMMER. I HAVEN'T SEE IT.
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WERE THEY BEFORE IN CATTAIL; WHAT
PERCENTAGE WERE THEY BEFORE?
A. THE SITES THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT?
Q. RIGHT, UH-HUH (YES).
A. ALMOST A HUNDRED PERCENT CATTAIL.
Q. THESE WERE AT THE FAR NORTHERN END OF WATER
CONSERVATION AREA 2A?
A. RIGHT.
Q. AND WHERE ARE THEY LOCATED BELOW? WHICH STRUCTURE
ARE WE NOW FINDING SAWGRASS WHERE WE ONCE HAD A
NEARLY COMPLETE CATTAIL MONOCULTURE,@
A. WELL, THESE ARE SMALL PLOTS, REMEMBER. I'M NOT
TALKING IN A HUGE AREA. I'M TALKING ABOUT NEAR
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 452
OUR STATION. SO, IT'S ON THE D-LINE. I WOULD
HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE DATA TO SEE WHICH
D-LINE.
Q. SO -- BUT AT THE TOP OF THE D-LINE, WE COULD FIND
SITES THAT HAD BEEN NEARLY A HUNDRED PERCENT
CATTAIL THAT ARE NOW NEARLY A HUNDRED PERCENT
SAWGRASS?
A. I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID THAT. I SAID IN 189 WHEN
THEY FROZE AND THEN BURNED, THE NEXT YEAR WE HAD
ALMOST A HUNDRED PERCENT SAWGRASS COME BACK. AND,
THEN, WE'VE ANALYZED THOSE SITES SINCE THAT TIME,
AND I'VE NOT LOOKED AT THE MOST RECENT DATA, BUT I
THINK THE SECOND YEAR THERE WAS AN INDICATION THAT
CATTAIL WAS COMING BACK IN AT SOME PERCENTAGE. I
DON'T REMEMBER THE PERCENTAGE.
OKAY. BUT WHAT DO WE HAVE NOW, IN 193, IN THOSE
SITES?
A. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE DATA.
Q. YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER?
I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
Q. OKAY. SO, YOU ONLY KNOW THE INITIAL RESPONSE?
A. THAT'S CORRECT. BUT I---
Q. OKAY.
A. --- I JUST HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE DATA. I JUST
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 453
HAVEN'T HAD TIME.
Q. OKAY. I HAD A QUESTION THAT -- DO THESE SITES
DOMINATE THE REGION?
A. WHICH SITES ARE WE TALKING ABOUT---
Q. THE ONES THAT---
A. --- THE BURN SITES OR THE---
Q. WELL, NO, THE ONES THAT YOU'RE SAYING REGENERATED
IN SAWGRASS THAT PREVIOUSLY WERE A HUNDRED PERCENT
CATTAIL.
A. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THAT IN DETAIL. MY GUESS WAS
FROM THE AREA THAT BURNED, IT WAS ONLY A SECTION
OF THE D-LINE. WE ONLY LOST ONE SECTION. SO, THE
AREA THAT BURNED WAS ONLY A SMALL PIECE. SO I
DON'T BELIEVE THEY WOULD DOMINATE THE AREA.
Q. OKAY. SO, IF I INFER FROM THIS WHAT YOU -- WHAT
YOU WOULD SAY IS, THAT, IF YOU COULD HAVE A GOOD
FROST AND THEN GO IN AND BURN, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE
TO WHAT?
A. WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT IF YOU -- THIS GIVES US
SOME INDICATION FOR THE FIRST TIME, IN AN AREA
THAT SHOWS SOIL NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT, THAT, IN
FACT, YOU CAN MANAGE SOME OF THOSE SPECIES. IT
APPEARS, OBVIOUSLY, THE FROST KNOCKED THE CATTAILS
BACK---
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 454
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. --- FIRST. BUT, ALSO, AS THEY MANAGE IN THE NORTH
WITH CATTAILS, YOU CAN BURN THEM ON SEVERAL
SUCCESSIONS. THERE ARE CERTAIN WAYS TO PROGRAM
THAT. THERE MAY VERY WELL BE WAYS IN WHICH YOU
CAN MANAGE THE CATTAILS AND PRODUCE SAWGRASS WITH
FIRE.
Q. IN THE EVERGLADES?
A. IN THE EVERGLADES.
Q. ON THOSE MUCK SOILS?
A. I BELIEVE SO.
Q. YOU COULD HAVE CONTROLLED FIRES THAT WOULD TAKE
OUT THE CATTAILS SUCCESSFULLY WITHOUT CAUSING THE
MUCK TO BURN?
A. WELL, THEY BURN SAWGRASS. WE HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN
OUT THERE A NUMBER OF TIMES WHEN THE STATE WARNS
US. THEY BURN ALMOST CONTINUALLY. THE FISH AND
WILDLIFE SERVICE OF STATE OF FLORIDA BURN YEAR
AFTER YEAR. IN FACT, THEY FEEL, IF FIRE IS NOT
AN INTEGRAL PART OF THAT COMMUNITY, IT HELPS
RELEASE NUTRIENTS AND REGENERATE THE SAWGRASS, AND
SO FIRE IS A VERY INTEGRAL PART. AND SO I WOULD
SEE VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE OF BURNING SAWGRASS AND
CATTAIL.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 455
Q. DO YOU INTEND TO RUN EXPERIMENTS TO SEE IF THIS
IS, IN FACT, SUCCESSFUL?
A. THAT'S ONE OF THE HOPES WE WOULD LIKE TO DO IN THE
VERY NEAR FUTURE.
Q. ARE YOU GOING DO THAT IN 3B, 2B?
A. I'M NOT SURE WHERE WE'D DO IT. AND WE, OF COURSE,
WOULD NOT HAVE -- WE WOULD HAVE TO GAIN PERMISSION
TO DO THAT. WE WOULD NOT BE GOING OUT THERE
SETTING FIRES. I THINK THAT WOULD CAUSE GREAT
CONCERN FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
Q. I THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT. I WOULD ADVISE YOU
TO CLEAR IT WITH SOMEBODY HIGHER THAN THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT.
MR. GREEN: BUT NOT AT THE TOP.
MS. PONZOLI: BUT NOT AT THE TOP,
YOU'RE RIGHT.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) I HAD ONE MORE QUESTION ON THIS,
AND I'LIL LET IT GO. WELL, I HAVE TWO MORE
QUESTIONS. I'M SORRY. THERE'S ANOTHER ONE. I
HAVE A CONTINUING PROBLEM, DR. RICHARDSON, WITH,
WHEN YOU SAY YOUR PRIMARY GOAL IS TO MAINTAIN
BIOTIC DIVERSITY -- I'M GOING TO PUT ASIDE
ECOSYSTEM FUNCTION BECAUSE I THINK I KNOW WHAT
YOU'LL SAY -- BUT BIOTIC DIVERSITY IN THE
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 456
EVERGLADES AND AT THE SAME TIME MANAGE IT AS A
PERMANENT SINK FOR NUTRIENTS, AND I WOULD LIKE YOU
TO TELL ME HOW YOU BELIEVE THOSE TWO ARE
COMPATIBLE.
A. WELL, I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF SOME
MANAGEMENT REGIMES WE'VE JUST DISCUSSED. BUT, AS
I SAID BEFORE, I THINK FROM SOME OF THE WORK OF
DR. RADER, THAT THERE'S SOME INDICATION THAT THERE
IS AN INCREASE IN SOME COMPONENTS OF THE
ECOSYSTEM. AND IT RELATES TO THE FACT THAT
PHOSPHORUS AT CERTAIN LEVELS WOULD BE A SUBSIDY,
WHICH COULD CAUSE AN INCREASE. OUR STUDIES FROM
THE FERTILIZER STUDY FROM DR. VYMAZAL SHOWS THAT,
IN FACT, YOU GET CHANGES IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER
AND DIVERSITY OF SPECIES FROM THE PERIPHYTON. AND
WE MAY FIND THAT ON THE DOSING STUDY. SO, I THINK
IT HAS TO DO WITH THE -- OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT SOME RELATIVE CONCENTRATION AND THRESHOLD.
THERE'S NO -- AND, AS LONG AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
A NONTOXIC NUTRIENT MATERIAL, IN A HIGHLY STRESSED
ENVIRONMENT THAT IS LIMITED FOR THAT NUTRIENT,
YOU'LL GET AN INCREASE.
YEAH, BUT, DR. RICHARDSON, I THINK THAT'S A VERY
TROUBLING ANSWER, AND LET ME TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 457
DR. RADER'S WORK WAS IN OPEN WATER, ENRICHED
SITES, WHICH YOU TELL ME YOU CANNOT QUANTIFY, BUT
YOU WILL CONCEDE ARE VERY SMALL IN THE EVERGLADES.
AND A VERY SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF SCIENTISTS
BELIEVE THAT THESE OPEN WATER AREAS ARE CLOSING IN
WITH THE CATTAILS THAT SURROUND THEM, SO THEY
DON'T EXIST FOR VERY LONG. SO, WHILE THEY MAY
HAVE A LOT OF MACROINVERTEBRATES IN THEM FOR THE
LIMITED PERIOD OF TIME THAT THEY'RE AVAILABLE TO
THIS SYSTEM, IT'S FAIRLY FAIRLY SHORT DURATION.
NOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DO YOU SEE A PROBLEM
WITH THESE OPEN WATER, ENRICHED SITES CLOSING IN?
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT AS AN
ECOLOGIST IN THE EVERGLADES?
A. AM I LOOKING AT THE RATE AT WHICH THOSE OPEN SITES
ARE CLOSING IN?
Q. NOT EVEN JUST THE RATE, THE FACT THAT THEY CLOSE
IN. DO YOU ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THE OPEN WATER,
WITH ENRICHED SITES HAVE A TENDENCY TO CLOSE IN
THE CATTAILS?
A. I HAVE NOT QUANTIFIED THE OPEN SITES CLOSING IN.
I'VE NOT LOOKED AT THAT.
Q. NOW, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN QUANTIFYING AND
ESTABLISHING A RATE AND BEING AWARE OF A
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 458
PHENOMENON. DO YOU AGREE?
A. YES, I THINK WE DID.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU ACCEPT THAT THE OPEN
WATER, ENRICHED SITES CLOSE IN IN THE EVERGLADES
WITH THE CATTAILS AT SOME POINT? NOT AT SOME
RATE, NOT AT SOME RATE OF INCREASE. I'M NOT GOING
TO -- I HAVEN'T QUANTIFIED IT AND I DON'T KNOW
ANYONE WHO HAS. I JUST -- THAT IT HAPPENS.
A. RIGHT. AT SOME POINT, BUT WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY
"SOME POINT"?
Q. YES. I GUESS THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED TO GO OUT THERE
AND DO RESEARCH ON, IS WHAT THE RATE OF CLOSING IN
IS, AND, THEN, WE'LL HAVE THEM ALL CLOSED IN AND
WE'LL KNOW THE RATE.
MR. BURGESS: AND THAT'S EXACTLY HOW
HE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. HE HASN'T
LOOKED AT IT.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) YOU NEED MORE RESEARCH. IS THAT
RIGHT?
A. WELL, I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THAT PARTICULAR
QUESTION.
Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT HAPPENS?
A. I BELIEVE IT'S POSSIBLE FOR THOSE AREAS TO DO
THAT. I ALSO BELIEVE IT'S POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 459
OPEN UP WITH FIRES. I ALSO BELIEVE IT'S POSSIBLE
TO CREATE OPEN AREAS BY CHANGING THE WATER LEVELS.
MY POINT IS, I THINK THE SYSTEMS CAN BE MANAGED.
THEY ARE BEING MISMANAGED HORRIBLY AT THIS STAGE
FOR THE EVERGLADES PURPOSES. SO, I MEAN, I THINK
THAT WE CAN COME UP WITH SOME POSITIVE MANAGEMENT,
DEPENDING UPON THE GOALS THAT PEOPLE SET FORWARD
FOR WHAT THEY WANT. I THINK MY RESEARCH AND MY
TEAM'S RESEARCH WILL HELP PROVIDE SOME OF THAT
INFORMATION. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE END-ALL.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EVERY PIECE, BUT IT WILL
PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION, ESPECIALLY IF WE GET TO
DO THE THINGS I THINK THAT ARE APPROPRIATE, THAT
SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE YEARS AGO.
Q. AND THOSE THINGS THAT YOU THINK ARE APPROPRIATE
AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE YEARS AGO ARE TO OFFER
THE ENTIRE WATER SUPPLY TO THE EVERGLADES?
A. THE DISTRIBUTION PATTERN---
Q. RIGHT.
A. --- TO STOP PUTTING WATER IN THE OCEAN; TO FLOW THE
WATER OVER THE SURFACE RATHER THAN MAKE IT POINT
SOURCES; TO---
Q. OVER THE EVERGLADES, TO PUT THE WATER OVER THE
EVERGLADES? A SHEET FLOW -- IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 460
SAYING?
A. TO ESSENTIALLY TRY TO REESTABLISH A NORMAL
HYDROPERIOD AND DISTRIBUTION OF THE WATER. IT IS
NOW A SERIES OF HOLDING PONDS.
Q. HAVE YOU DONE ANY MODELING OF THE WATER OF THE
WHOLE SYSTEM?
A. I HAVE NOT PUT TOGETHER, IF YOU'RE ASKING, A
HYDROLOGIC MODEL OF THE WHOLE SYSTEM, NO.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE WHO IS?
A. THEY'RE -- I'M SURE THE DISTRICT AND SOME OTHER
PEOPLE ARE DOING THAT. I BELIEVE I WAS AT SOME
MEETINGS THAT CARL WALTERS ACTUALLY PUT TOGETHER A
FIRST-CUT MODEL. HE'S AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
BRITISH COLUMBIA. AND HE PUBLISHED A -- ONE OF
THE FIRST PIECES ON THAT. I THINK TOM MacVICAR
WORKED ON SOME PIECES OF THAT AT ONE TIME.
Q. HAVE YOU WORKED WITH MR. GHERINI ON A HYDROLOGIC
MODEL?
A. NO. I'VE NOT WORKED WITH MR. GHERINI ON A
HYDROLOGIC MODEL.
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE OF HIS DOING ONE?
A. I BELIEVE HE'S DOING SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES
IN TERMS OF NUTRIENTS OR WATER OR SOMETHING, BUT I
AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT HE IS DOING.
DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 461
Q. SO, YOU'VE OFFERED NO ADVICE IN THAT REGARD.
A. I HAVE OFFERED NO ADVICE. I MAY HAVE SUPPLIED
REPORTS TO HIM AND---
Q. YOUR ANNUAL REPORTS?
A. I BELIEVE SO. I CAN'T REMEMBER. I WOULD HAVE TO
GO BACK. I DON'T -- ACTUALLY, I'M NOT EVEN SURE
WE -- WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE KEPT RECORDS TO ALL
THE HUNDREDS OF THOSE THINGS WE SENT OUT, BUT I
DON'T. SO I CAN'T REMEMBER IF HE -- YOU KNOW,