DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 201

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WE HAVE A PENDING QUESTION THAT,

 

 

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT COULD BE IMPROVED OVER

 

 

TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT?

 

 

A. AS I THINK I SORT OF HINTED, IF I DIDN'T, WITHOUT

 

 

REVIEWING THE DOCUMENTS IN MORE DETAIL, AND

 

 

LOOKING AT SOME OF THE DATA IN THE EAA, MORE

 

 

SPECIFIC DATA, I REALLY -- YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE

 

 

ARE SOME POSSIBILITIES THAT THEY COULD DO SO. I

 

 

THINK THERE MAY BE SOME OTHER MECHANISMS, THAT I

 

 

MENTIONED IN MY SECOND REPORT, THAT I THINK SHOULD

 

 

BE LOOKED AT, AND I STILL THINK THEY SHOULD BE

 

 

LOOKED AT, BUT WHAT THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF

 

 

REDUCTIONS ARE, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN---

 

 

Q. SO, YOU HAVE NO OPINION AS TO HOW MUCH MORE THEY

 

 

COULD RAISE OVER TWENTY-FIVE---

 

 

A. RAISE?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: RAISE?

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WELL, LOWER -- I'M SORRY.

 

 

LOWER. RAISE THE PERCENTAGE OF REDUCTION, OR

 

 

WHATEVER. ANYWAY, LOWER THEIR PHOSPHORUS?

 

 

A. I DON'T HAVE A PERCENTAGE NUMBER IN MIND. I MEAN,

 

 

THERE ARE SOME OBVIOUS CHOICES IN SOME CASES, BUT

 

 

THE FARMERS HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, DECIDE, I MEAN,

 

 

SOME OF THOSE COMPONENTS.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 202

 

 

 

 

Q. WHAT ARE THE OBVIOUS CHOICES?

 

 

A. WELL, I SUPPOSE THERE IS A SERIES OF STUDIES THAT

 

 

COULD BE DONE ON REDUCTIONS FOR, YOU KNOW,

VEGETABLE CROPS, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW MUCH NUTRIENT

 

 

MATERIAL THEY COULD GET BY WITH. THERE ARE

 

 

STUDIES THAT COULD BE RECYCLING AND RECIRCULATING

 

 

WATER. THERE COULD BE SOME HOLDING PONDS THAT

 

 

COULD BE CONSIDERED. THERE COULD BE A VARIETY --

 

 

I MEAN, THERE ARE A WHOLE LIST OF TECHNIQUES, MOST

 

 

OF WHICH PEOPLE DON'T HAVE NUMBERS ON.

 

 

Q. THIS IS IN YOUR REPORT, YOU SAID?

 

 

A. SOME OF THOSE GENERIC AREAS ARE IN THE -- ARE

 

 

IN MY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WAS IN MY SECOND

 

 

REPORT.

 

 

Q. WHEN YOU SAY YOUR SECOND REPORT, I THINK WE'RE A

 

 

LITTLE CONFUSED. DO YOU MEAN YOUR ANNUAL REPORT?

 

 

A. MY ANNUAL REPORT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND WHICH CHAPTER WAS THIS?

 

 

A. IT'S IN THE BACK.

 

 

Q. IN THE CONCLUSIONS?

 

 

A. I THINK THERE'S A SECTION CALLED RECOMMENDATIONS

 

 

OR SOMETHING.

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND THESE, REDUCTION OF VEGETABLE CROPS AND

 

 

THE HOLDING PONDS AND WHATEVER ELSE YOU HAD

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 203

 

 

 

 

LISTED, WERE ALL -- YOU BELIEVE WERE LISTED THERE,

 

 

TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION WERE THERE?

 

 

A. I JUST SAID BMP'S IN A GENERIC SENSE.

 

 

Q. OKAY, OKAY.

 

 

A. I DIDN'T SAY WHICH SPECIFIC ONES. MY POINT THERE

 

 

IS SIMPLY THAT I THINK THERE ARE OTHER

 

 

ALTERNATIVES THAT CAN BE LOOKED AT. AND I THINK

 

 

THAT, YOU KNOW, ALL SIDES SHOULD BE LOOKING AT

 

 

OTHER ALTERNATIVES.

 

 

Q. SUCH AS? NOW, YOU SAID THERE ARE OTHER POSSIBLE

 

 

ALTERNATIVES, BUT YOU HAVEN'T TOLD US WHAT THEY

 

 

ARE. YOUFVE MENTIONED THE BMP'S, AND YOU SAID

 

 

THAT YOU THOUGHT DR. PATRICK'S PROPOSAL SHOULD BE

 

 

FUNDED AND FOLLOWED THROUGH ON, BUT WHAT OTHER

 

 

ALTERNATIVES DO YOU BELIEVE ARE VIABLE?

 

 

A. WELL, I THINK I MENTIONED THAT THERE WERE SOME

 

 

HOLDING POND SCENARIOS, RECYCLING OF WATER WITHIN

 

 

THE SYSTEM, A REDUCTION OF UTILIZATION OF

 

 

NUTRIENTS. I THINK I MENTIONED THAT ONE. THERE

 

 

COULD BE TESTS DONE ON FORMS OF NUTRIENTS. BUT

 

 

THESE ARE -- THESE ARE NOT THINGS THAT YOU SIMPLY

 

 

ONE DAY TURN ON THE ANSWER AND GET THE ANSWER.

 

 

YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME SPECIFIC RESEARCH TAILORED

 

 

TO DO THIS.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 204

 

 

 

 

Q. AND YOU RECOMMENDED AS FAR BACK AS 1989 THAT THE

 

 

INDUSTRY START DOING THAT?

 

 

A. I RECOM -- I'M SORRY.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: I OBJECT TO 'I'HE

 

 

CHARACTERIZATION OF HIS TESTIMONY --

 

 

"DOING THAT."

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) DOING RESEARCH ON 'I'HESE BMP OR

 

 

ALTERNATE REMOVAL FORMS OF PHOSPHORUS.

 

 

A. I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND CHECK THE RECORDS, BUT

 

 

I -- IT MAY BE SOMETIME IN LATE 189 OR 190. AS I

 

 

SAID, I THINK THAT WAS MY -- SOMEWHERE IN THAT

 

 

TIME FRAME. BUT I DID NOT GIVE SPECIFIC --

 

 

SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS. I MEAN, I WAS NOT

 

 

ASKED TO, BUT I WAS TELLING THEM THAI' I THOUGHT

 

 

THAT WAS AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO APPROACH THIS, THAT

 

 

THEY SHOULD DO SO.

 

 

Q. IF YOU'RE CHECKING YOUR RECORDS, YOU MEAN YOUR

 

 

CALENDAR OF EVENTS---

 

 

A. UH---

 

 

Q. --- HOW DO YOU MEAN CHECK YOUR RECORDS? DO YOU

 

 

KEEP -- DO YOU KEEP LOGS THAT TELL YOU WHEN YOU

 

 

MET WITH PEOPLE?

 

 

A. NO, NOT PARTICULARLY. BUT I -- BUT I' MAY HAVE, IF

 

 

I WENT THROUGH AND LOOKED AT MY CORRESPONDENCE OR

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 205

 

 

 

 

SOMETHING, I MAY HAVE A WAY OF LOOKING TO SEE

 

 

WHAT -- YOU KNOW, I AM ACTUALLY NOT QUITE AS GOOD

 

 

AT THAT AS I SHOULD BE.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO BACK TO YOUR MEETING WITH

 

 

MR. WEDGWORTH IN 1988, FOLLOWING MR. BARBER

 

 

RECOMMENDING YOU, HAVING MET YOU AT A WETLANDS

 

 

CONFERENCE, AND MR. WEDGWORTH AT THAT TIME WAS IN

 

 

THE FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. WHAT HAPPENED

 

 

AFTER THAT, DR. RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. AFTER OUR MEETING, OR DURING OUR MEETING, HE SAID

 

 

TO ME THAT, IN FACT, WHAT WE -- WHAT THAT --

 

 

MEANING THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE WAS INTERESTED IN

 

 

WAS TO -- TO CONDUCT SOME RESEARCH. GEORGE HAS

 

 

ALWAYS BEEN FAIRLY, AT LEAST TO ME,

 

 

STRAIGHTFORWARD, IN THAT WE HAD TO FIND OUT THE

 

 

FACTS. WITHOUT THE FACTS, NO ONE COULD WE'D BE

 

 

ACTING BLINDLY ON THIS INFORMATION, 130 AND I

 

 

TOLD HIM THAT IF WE DID THIS RESEARCH, ONE, IT

 

 

WOULD HAVE TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. IT WOULD

 

 

HAVE TO BE -- WE WOULD HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PUBLISH

 

 

THIS INFORMATION. WE DID NOT DO THIS INFORMATION

 

 

ANY OTHER WAY. HE SAID THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY NO

 

 

PROBLEM, AND -- BUT HE ALSO TOLD ME THAT THEY WERE

 

 

VISITING THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA AND SOME OTHER

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 206

 

 

 

 

 

 

INSTITUTIONS, AND SO THAT WE'D HAVE TO BASICALLY

 

 

DEVELOP A PROPOSAL, AND THEN THEY WOULD MAKE A

 

 

DECISION AFTER WE PRESENTED OUR PROPOSALS, WHAT WE

 

 

WOULD DO, AND THEN PROCEED FROM THERE. SO, WE

 

 

THEN WENT BACK -- I WENT BACK -- I SAY WE -- I

 

 

WENT BACK AND BASICALLY DEVELOPED A PROPOSAL TO

 

 

LOOK AT THE CATTAIL ISSUE. AND BASICALLY I CALLED

 

 

IT A PILOT STUDY, BECAUSE AT THAT TIME I FELT THAT

 

 

THERE WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION, AS ANY ECOLOGIST

 

 

WOULD, YOU NEED TO -- I NEEDED TO GET MY OWN

 

 

BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON THE WHOLE STATE OF THE

 

 

EVERGLADES---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. --- SO, I PROCEEDED TO DO SO. AND---

 

 

Q. YOU DID A PROPOSAL TO THE FLORIDA SUGAR CANE

 

 

LEAGUE?

 

 

A. THAT'S CORRECT.

 

 

Q. AND DO YOU BELIEVE YOU PROVIDED THAT TO US AMONG

 

 

YOUR DOCUMENTS?

 

 

A. I BELIEVE SO. IF I DIDN'T, I CAN SURELY PRODUCE

 

 

IT.

 

 

Q. WOULD YOU DO THAT? I WAS UNABLE TO LOCATE IT, AND

 

 

I JUST MUST HAVE PASSED BY IT, BUT THERE WERE A

 

 

FAIR NUMBER---

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 207

 

 

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ---AND THEY CAME IN TONS A DAY, FOR A PERIOD OF

 

 

TIME.

 

 

A. YEAH.

 

 

Q. OKAY. I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT IF YOU COULD BRING

 

 

THAT, ALONG WITH YOUR CURRENT CV---

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. --- AND MS. RAIKES' PAPER, IF YOU CAN GET THAT FROM

 

 

WHEREVER IT IS.

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

MR. GREEN: HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT,

 

 

SUZAN. I MISSED THAT DEPO---

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: RAIKES?

 

 

MR. GREEN: YEAH.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: R-A-I-K-E-S.

 

 

MR. GREEN: OKAY.

 

 

WITNESS: I DON'T BELIEVE HERE WAS A

 

 

DEPOSITION.

MS. PONZOLI: WELL, HER NAME CAME UP IN

 

 

A PRIOR DEPOSITION.

 

 

WITNESS: RIGHT, BUT I---

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: THAT MR. GREEN WAS HERE.

 

 

MR. GREEN: THANK YOU.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 208

 

 

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: IT WAS JANE RAIKES.

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) OKAY. I WOULD LIKE TO RETURN TO

 

 

THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING, FROM YOUR PROPOSAL,

 

 

PROBABLY FIRST THING IN THE MORNING. BUT I WOULD

 

 

LIKE TO GO BACK, DR. RICHARDSON, TO THE LINE I HAD

 

 

PREVIOUSLY BEEN PURSUING, AS TO WHICH EXPERT

 

 

WITNESSES YOU HAD BEEN WORKING WITH ON BEHALF OF

 

 

THE LEAGUE AND THE COOPERATIVE, AND TRY TO FINISH

 

 

THAT UP TODAY.

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. BECAUSE THATFS WHERE -- IT'S HOW WE ENDED UP GOING

 

 

DOWN THIS ROAD.

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. AND -- AND, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO FINISH UP THAT

 

 

DISCRETE AREA. I DON'T RECALL YOUR -- YOUR EXACT

 

 

PREVIOUS ANSWER AS TO WHOM YOU WERE WORKING WITH.

 

 

I THINK WE HAD GONE INTO -- YOU HAD DONE SOME

 

 

LITERATURE SEARCHES AND YOU'D MET WITH SOME

 

 

PEOPLE. I'D LIKE TO KNOW SPECIFICALLY, ARE THERE

 

 

EXPERTS WITH WHOM YOU CONSULT TO PREPARE EITHER

 

 

PRESENTATIONS, WHICH I THINK YOU DID SAY YOU HAD

 

 

DONE SOME OF THAT, DID YOU NOT?

 

 

A. DONE SOME PRESENTATIONS.

 

 

Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, WHOM HAVE YOU CONSULTED WITH TO

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 209

 

 

 

 

DO PRESENTATIONS?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: PRESENTATIONS TO WHOM?

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WHOM HAVE YOU DONE PRESENTATIONS

 

 

TO, DR. RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WHEN I MAKE PRESENTATIONS, I

 

 

PRETTY MUCH DO THEM MYSELF, OR WITH MY STAFF.

 

 

AND WE DON'T -- WHAT WE PRESENT NORMALLY IS WHERE

 

 

WE -- USUALLY WE ARE ASKED TO -- AND IFLL TELL YOU

 

 

WHO IN A MINUTE -- WE ARE ASKED TO PRESENT OUR

 

 

CURRENT STATE OF KNOWLEDGE AND WHERE WE ARE ON

 

 

RESEARCH.

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. AND, SO, I HAVE BEEN ASKED BY AUDUBON SOCIETY,

 

 

SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, U.S. SUGAR, SOUTHERN FLORIDA

 

 

WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, NUMEROUS NATIONAL AND

 

 

INTERNATIONAL MEETINGS TO PRESENT INFORMATION.

 

 

Q. WETLANDS CONFERENCES OF ALL DIFFERENT---

 

 

A. WETLAND CONFERENCES ALL DIFFERENT TYPES.

 

 

Q. SIZES, SORTS AND SHAPES?

 

 

A. LECTURES AT VARIOUS UNIVERSITIES---

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES). UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. --- HALF A DOZEN OF THOSE -- I DON'T REMEMBER THE

 

 

EXACT NUMBER -- AROUND THE COUNTRY, SPECIFICALLY

 

 

ON THIS EVERGLADES ISSUE, SO.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 210

 

 

 

 

Q. HOW OFTEN DO YOU MEET -- WELL, WHOM 1)0 YOU MEET

 

 

WITH BEFORE YOU DO THESE? WHICH OF THE EXPERTS

 

 

FOR THE LEAGUE, OR THE COOPERATIVE, 1)0 YOU MEET

 

 

WITH PRIOR TO ANY OF THESE, SAGE OR SOUTH FLORIDA

 

 

WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, OR AUDUBON OR FLORIDA

 

 

SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, U.S. SUGAR, ANY OF THEM, WHOM

 

 

HAVE YOU MET WITH?

 

 

A. OCCASIONALLY, I MEET ON SOME OF THOSE

 

 

PRESENTATIONS -- YOU KNOW, YOU WANT SPECIFIC

 

 

PEOPLE?

 

 

Q. I WANT SPECIFIC PEOPLE.

 

 

A. MOST OF THE TIME, I'D -- I'D HAVE TO GO IN

 

 

CHRONOLOGY, IT'S -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S

 

 

USUALLY TO -- TO BASICALLY GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF

 

 

WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY. SECONDLY, IT'S PEOPLE LIKE

 

 

ANDY RACKLEY. AT ONE TIME, IT WAS ED BARBER.

 

 

OCCASIONALLY, IT WAS BOB BUKER. AND SOME OF THE

 

 

OTHER PEOPLE, I DON'T KNOW THEIR NAMES. I

 

 

OCCASIONALLY HAVE MADE PRESENTATIONS TO THE EQC ON

 

 

MY RESEARCH.

 

 

Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER HAD -- HAS DR. DAVIS EVER

 

 

PARTICIPATED IN---

 

 

A. OH, YES.

 

 

Q. --- ANY OF THESE MEETINGS?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 211

 

 

 

 

A. OH, YES, JOHN DAVIS. YES, DR. JOHN DAVIS HAS BEEN

 

 

AT THOSE MEETINGS.

 

 

Q. HOW ABOUT MR. LARSON?

 

 

A. OH, NOT -- NOT VERY MANY OF THE MEETINGS THAT I'VE

 

 

BEEN AT THAT -- HAS HE BEEN AT. HE WAS -- HE MAY

 

 

HAVE BEEN AT ONE OR TWO, BUT NOT VERY MANY. I

 

 

HAVE NOT SEEN HIM AT MOST OF THESE MEETINGS.

 

 

Q. OKAY. DR. PATRICK, HAS HE EVER PARTICIPATED IN

 

 

ANY OF THESE?

 

 

A. HE HAS PARTICIPATED OCCASIONALLY.

 

 

Q. DR. POLLMAN?

 

 

A. ON -- I HAVE MET WITH -- MET WITH HIM

 

 

OCCASIONALLY, BUT NOT ON THESE MEETINGS---

 

 

Q. OKAY. WHAT---

 

 

A. --- NOT ON THOSE MEETINGS, NO.

 

 

Q. WHAT HAVE YOU MEET WITH DR. POLLMAN ON?

 

 

A. WE HAVE HAD SOME MEETINGS -- ONE IN GAINESVILLE,

 

 

AND ONE, I BELIEVE, OR MAYBE TWO AT DUKE.

 

 

Q. ON WHAT?

 

 

A. SPECIFICALLY TO -- TO -- TO LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE

 

 

BEEN DOING. THEY PRIMARILY -- IN FACT, BILL GREEN

 

 

CAME TO ONE OF THOSE MEETINGS, OR MAYBE TWO OF

 

 

THEM, TO -- BASICALLY, THEY WANTED TO BE BROUGHT

 

 

UP TO SPEED AS TO WHERE OUR RESEARCH WAS. AND, IN

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 212

 

 

 

 

FACT, THAT IS PART AND PARCEL -- MOST OF THE TIME

 

 

WHEN I MEET WITH PEOPLE, I'D SAY EIGHTY PERCENT --

 

 

I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT FIGURE -- THAT IS WHAT I'M

 

 

DOING. I AM BRINGING THIS GROUP UP TO SPEED OF

 

 

WHAT WE'RE FINDING.

 

 

Q. DO THEY EVER OFFER COMMENTS ON THE TONE OF YOUR

 

 

PRESENTATION, OR MAKE SUGGESTIONS AS TO THE

 

 

VISUALS THAT YOU MIGHT USE?

 

 

A. NOT REALLY. THEY'RE MOSTLY CONFUSED BY IT, I

 

 

THINK.

 

 

Q. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THEM QUOTE WHAT YOU DID IN THE

 

 

PRESENTATIONS?

 

 

A. HAVE I EVER HEARD THEM? NO.

 

 

Q. HAVE YOU EVER READ REPRESENTATIONS IN PRESS

 

 

RELEASES AS TO WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT THE CURRENT

 

 

STATE OF YOUR RESEARCH?

 

 

A. I HAVE---

 

 

MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM,

 

 

JUST WHO THEM IS. I DON'T KNOW WHO

 

 

THEM IS.

 

 

WITNESS: YEAH, WHO IS THEM? WHO

 

 

BE THEM?

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WELL, ONE OF THE THEMS IS

 

 

MR. BUKER.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 213

 

 

 

 

A. YES. AND HAVE I EVER HEARD OR---

 

 

Q. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OR READ MR. BUKERIS

 

 

CHARACTERIZATIONS OF THE CURRENT STATE OF YOUR

 

 

RESEARCH?

 

 

A. I'VE READ, I BELIEVE -- AS YOU KNOW, I DO GET SOME

 

 

NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS FROM DOWN THERE, TO TRY TO

 

 

KEEP ABREAST OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

 

 

Q. I'VE GOT A FEW.

 

 

A. WELL, IF YOU READ THE BACK---

 

 

Q. YOURS AND MINE.

 

 

A. IF YOU -- IF YOU READ THE BACKSIDE, THERE'S DEAR

 

 

ABBY AND MORE INTERESTING READING ON THE BACK.

 

 

PARDON ME. I HAVE READ SOME, I BELIEVE -- I CAN'T

 

 

REMEMBER HOW MANY -- BUT SOME COMMENTS THAT HE HAS

 

 

MADE RELATED TO OUR RESEARCH.

 

 

Q. HAVE YOU EVER FOUND MISCHARACTERIZATIONS OF YOUR

 

 

RESEARCH?

 

 

A. I'D SAY AT LEAST MISUNDERSTANDINGS OF SOME

 

 

COMPONENTS OF IT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. DID YOU FIND THAT DR. PATRICK AND DR.

 

 

POLLMAN WERE CONFUSED BY THE STATE OF YOUR

 

 

RESEARCH?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. NOR DR. DAVIS?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 214

 

 

 

 

A. NO. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT IN SOME

 

 

ASPECTS, THE DEPTH OF WHICH YOU DISCUSS CERTAIN

 

 

COMPONENTS OF RESEARCH CAN BE, TO ALMOST ANYONE,

 

 

CONFUSING UNLESS YOU HAVE THE MATERIAL TO READ OR

 

 

GO THROUGH IT. IT CAN BE. AND, ALSO, IT ALSO MAY

 

 

BE THAT I SPEAK RAPIDLY AND AM NOT QUITE AS CLEAR

 

 

ON SOME THINGS AS I SHOULD BE.

 

 

Q. IN PREPARATION FOR YOUR PRESENTATIONS AT, LET'S

 

 

SAY WHATEVER, A WETLANDS CONFERENCE OR WHATEVER,

 

 

ANY OF THESE -- THESE MEETINGS, HAVE YOU HAD JOINT

 

 

MEETINGS THAT INCLUDED ATTORNEYS AND OTHER

 

 

EXPERTS?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. THEY HAVE ONLY INCLUDED OTHER EXPERTS OR

 

 

CONSULTANTS?

 

 

A. NO ONE -- LIKE FOR, SAY, A WETLANDS MEETING?

 

 

Q. FOR SAGE -- FOR SAGE. LET'S SAY SPECIFICALLY FOR

 

 

THE SAGE PRESENTATION.

 

 

A. I'M SORRY, BUT I THOUGHT I THOUGHT YOU HAD SAID

 

 

WETLANDS MEETINGS.

 

 

Q. WELL, NO, I'VE SORT OF MADE THEM ALL GENERIC.

 

 

I'VE INCLUDED ALL OF THESE, SAGE, AUDUBON, U.S.

 

 

SUGAR OR SOUTH FLORIDA. I SORT OF LUMPED THEM ALL

 

 

TOGETHER.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 215

 

 

 

 

MR. BURGESS: THEN I'LL OBJECT TO THE

 

 

FORM OF THE QUESTION, BASED UPON ITS

 

 

OVERBREADTH AND AMBIGUITY. AND, ON THAT

 

 

BASIS, I THINK THAT YOU'RE IMPLICATING

 

 

POTENTIALLY SOME ATTORNEY WORK PRODUCT

 

 

AND/OR ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRESENTATIONS AS FAR

 

 

AS THE LEAGUE AND U.S. SUGAR ARE CONCERNED,

 

 

WITH OTHER PRESENTATIONS SUCH AS SAGE,

 

 

AUDUBON, AND WETLANDS CONFERENCE, AND I

 

 

DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO THAT.

 

 

A. SO ---

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: I CAN ASK HIM IF HE MET

 

 

WITH EXPERTS AND ATTORNEYS PRIOR.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: OH, SURE.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: I DON'T THINK THAT

 

 

QUESTION IS IMPROPER.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: I'M NOT INSTRUCTING

 

 

HIM NOT TO ANSWER. I JUST THINK IT'S

 

 

CONFUSING.

 

 

A. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULDN'T LUMP ALL THOSE TOGETHER,

 

 

BECAUSE -- BUT WE CAN GO THROUGH. YOU SAID

 

 

SPECIFICALLY SAGE?

 

 

Q. THE LAST SAGE PRESENTATION, THE ONE THAT WE'RE

 

 

GOING TO---

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 216

 

 

 

 

A. CORRECT.

 

 

Q. --- YOU KNOW, DISCUSS SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE YOU'VE

 

 

REFERRED TO IT SEVERAL TIMES TODAY, AND I HAVE,

 

 

TOO. LET'S TAKE THAT ONE SPECIFICALLY. DID YOU

 

 

MEET WITH OTHER EXPERTS, AND/OR ATTORNEYS, PRIOR

 

 

TO THAT PRESENTATION?

 

 

A. YES.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. DID YOU MEET WITH BOTH OTHER EXPERTS

 

 

AND ATTORNEYS?

 

 

A. YES.

 

 

Q. OKAY. WHOM DID YOU MEET WITH?

 

 

A. I'M TRYING TO THINK OF WHO WAS -- THERE WAS

 

 

ACTUALLY -- JUST PRIOR TO THE ACTUAL SAGE MEETING

 

 

ITSELF, I WAS ACTUALLY ON THE SCIENCE ADVISORY

 

 

REVIEW BOARD FOR EPA, AND I WAS IN NEW ORLEANS,

 

 

AND SO I ACTUALLY PREPARED THAT PRESENTATION,

 

 

WHICH I DID MYSELF. I DO ALL OF MY OWN

 

 

PRESENTATIONS, WITH THE HELP OF MY STAFF---

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. --- AND MET JUST BRIEFLY -- BECAUSE I ACTUALLY HAD

 

 

VERY DIFFICULT CONNECTIONS, I WAS IN NEW ORLEANS,

 

 

AND I FLEW TO MIAMI, AND ACTUALLY ROI)E UP WITH

 

 

RICK. AND I MET IN MIAMI -- THERE WERE A NUMBER

 

 

OF PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM WHO WERE HAVING A

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 217

 

 

 

 

CONSULTANT'S MEETING. OKAY, SO -- AND I DON'T --

 

 

I DID NOT SIT IN THAT MEETING, PER SE. I COULDN'T

 

 

TELL YOU ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN THERE.

 

 

THEY WERE DOING WHATEVER THEY WERE DOING, AND I

 

 

SAT IN THE HALLWAY UNTIL THEY FINISHED THEIR

 

 

PRESENTATIONS, AND THEN I CAME IN AND MADE A BRIEF

 

 

OVERVIEW OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO PRESENT THE NEXT

 

 

DAY, AND THEN DROVE UP. AND THEN WE -- I MADE THE

 

 

PRESENTATION, SO.

 

 

Q. ARE YOU -- YOU'RE IMPLYING THAT MR. BURGESS AND

 

 

MR. GREEN WERE THERE?

 

 

MR. BURGESS WAS THERE. BUT I DON"T --- MR. GREEN

 

 

MAY HAVE BEEN THERE, AND MAY HAVE LE-FT. I CAN'T

 

 

REMEMBER IF HE LEFT EARLY OR NOT. I DON'T

 

 

REMEMBER IF HE STAYED FOR THE PRESENTATION OR

 

 

NOT.

 

 

Q. YOU'RE NOT IMPLYING THAT ANYONE ON THIS SIDE OF

 

 

THE TABLE WAS THERE?

 

 

A. NOT THAT I REMEMBER, BUT THERE WERE SOME OTHER

 

 

PEOPLE THERE. I BELIEVE PHIL---

 

 

MR. BURGESS: DON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: OH, HE CAN ANSWER WHO WAS

 

 

THERE. ARE YOU GOING TO TELL HIM HE CAN'T

 

 

TELL ME WHO WAS AT THE MEETING, MR. BURGESS?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 218

 

 

 

 

MR. BURGESS: RIGHT. RIGHT.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: ARE YOU INSTRUCTING HIM

 

 

NOT TO TELL ME WHO WAS AT THE MEETING?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: YES.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: ON WHAT BASIC?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: ON THE BASIS THAT HE

 

 

IDENTIFIED IT, AND I KNOW IT AS AN ATTORNEY

 

 

CONSULTANT MEETING. THE MAN CONSULTS FOR THE

 

 

FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. HE SHARES A

 

 

COMMON INTEREST WITH RESPECT TO THE ATTORNEYS

 

 

AND CONSULTANTS THAT CONSULT WITH THE LEAGUE.

 

 

I MEAN, TO THE EXTENT THAT HE IDENTIFIES

 

 

PERSONS THAT WERE THERE MAY IMPLICATE MY

 

 

LITIGATION STRATEGY WITH RESPECT TO THE

 

 

PEOPLE THAT I CALL TOGETHER. HE HAS

 

 

TESTIFIED HE WAS NOT AT THE MEETING; HE

 

 

SAT IN THE HALLWAY.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: BUT HE ENTERED THE ROOM

 

 

AND HE SAW THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM AND

 

 

PARTICIPATED IN THE MEETING TO THAT EXTENT.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: YES, WITH RESPECT TO

MAKING HIS BRIEF OVERVIEW OF WHAT HE WAS

 

 

GOING TO DO THE NEXT DAY, AND IF THAT'S

 

 

YOU'RE ASKING WHO WAS THERE FOR THAT MEETING,

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 219

 

 

 

 

THAT'S FINE, BUT NOT WITH RESPECT TO THE

 

 

PREVIOUS MEETING WHICH HE SAID FIE DIDN'T

 

 

ATTEND.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: HE CAN'T TELL ME WHO WAS

 

 

THERE FOR THE PREVIOUS MEETING?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: THATTS RIGHT.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: AND YOU'RE INSTRUCTING

 

 

HIM NOT TO ANSWER?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: YES.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: BECAUSE IT REVEALS

 

 

ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: DO WE REALLY NEED TO

 

 

HAVE THIS TETE A TETE ON THE RECORD, MS.

 

 

PONZOLI?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: OH, YES. WE MOST

 

 

CERTAINLY DO NEED TO HAVE THIS TETE-A-TETE ON

 

 

THE RECORD, BECAUSE THIS IS PRECISELY THE

 

 

TYPE OF INFORMATION THAT BOTH THE LEAGUE AND

 

 

THE COOPERATIVE ARE SEEKING FROM THE FEDERAL

 

 

GOVERNMENT ON SOME SIGNIFICANT MEETINGS THAT

 

 

I'VE BELIEVE REFLECT ATTORNEY-CLIENT

 

 

PRIVILEGES, AND I FIND IT VERY, VERY AMAZING

 

 

THAT I AM NOT ALLOWED TO SEEK THIS TYPE OF

 

 

INFORMATION. SO, I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT VERY

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 220

 

 

 

 

CLEAR WHAT I AM BEING PROHIBITED FROM

 

 

OBTAINING, BECAUSE I HAVE THIS STINKY LITTLE

 

 

FEELING THAT THESE THINGS CUT BOTH WAYS, SO I

 

 

JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: IT'S CLARIFIED. CONSIDER

 

 

IT VERY CLEAR. I'M INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO

 

 

ANSWER TO TELL YOU WHO WAS AT THE MEETING,

 

 

THAT HE'S IDENTIFIED AS THE ATTORNEY-

 

 

CONSULTANT MEETING, WHICH PRECEDED HIS BRIEF

 

 

OVERVIEW OF WHAT HE WAS GOING TO PRESENT THE

 

 

NEXT DAY.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: OKAY.

 

 

MR. GREEN: I GUESS I NEED TO SAY

 

 

SOMETHING FOR THE RECORD, SINCE IT'S ALMOST

 

 

FIVE.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: I DON'T CARE WHO'S AT

 

 

THE NEXT---

 

 

MR. GREEN: MS. PONZOLI, I DON'T RECALL

 

 

THE INSTANCE IN WHICH YOU MADE A SIMILAR

 

 

 

 

STATEMENT THAT I -- I HAVENFT BEEN TO ALL

 

 

THE DEPOSITIONS WITH REGARD TO YOUR

 

 

WITNESSES. I'LL JUST SAY, ONE, I DON'T

 

 

RECALL THAT. NUMBER TWO, FOR THE RECORD,

 

 

I WAS NOT AT THE MEETING IN MIAMI THAT YOU'RE

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 221

 

 

 

 

TALKING ABOUT. I'D LIKE TO JUST STATE THAT.

 

 

WE CAN GO AHEAD.

 

 

MR. KILLINGER: NOR WAS I.

 

 

WITNESS: I SAID I DIDN'T -- I WASN'T

 

 

SURE WHETHER HE WAS THERE. I THINK I -- HE

 

 

APPARENTLY CLARIFIED THAT.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING,

 

 

MR. GREEN IS YOU WOULD CONTINUE TO ASSERT

 

 

YOUR RIGHT TO OBTAIN THE -- THE ATTENDEES AT

 

 

SUCH MEETINGS?

 

 

MR. GREEN: IF IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR ME

 

 

TO OBTAIN THEM, AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THE

 

 

FACTUAL CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHICH YOU'RE

 

 

SPEAKING. SURE. THAT'S WHY I'M STATING

 

 

THIS. I'M NOT WAIVING ANY RIGHT TO OBTAIN

 

 

WHATEVER DISCOVERY WE'RE ENTITLED TO, BUT I

 

 

DON'T HAVE THE HISTORY OF THIS THAT YOU AND

 

 

MR. BURGESS HAVE. I JUST WANTED TO STATE

 

 

THAT SO IT WOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS A WAIVER

 

 

IN LIGHT OF WHAT YOU SAID.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: WELL, I THINK -- I THINK

 

 

THAT IT MAY BE THAT IT IS THE COOPERATIVE

 

 

THAT IS SEEKING THE MEMBERS OF CERTAIN

 

 

MEETINGS, AND---

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 222

 

 

MR. GREEN: THAT MAY BE.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: YEAH, IT MAY BE.

 

 

MR. GREEN: I CAN'T DEBATE THAT WITH

 

 

YOU, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE FACTS OF THE

 

 

MATTER.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: YOUR INTERROGATORIES, YOU

 

 

DON'T REMEMBER YOUR INTERROGATORIES?

 

 

MR. GREEN: I'LL GO BACK AND LOOK AT

 

 

THOSE.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: OKAY, YOU MIGHT BE

 

 

INTERESTED.

 

 

MR. GREEN: SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA,

 

 

THOUGH.

 

 

MR. REID: WHO WAS AT THE NEXT MEETING

 

 

IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: I KNOW. MR. REID, I WILL

 

 

ASK.

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) YOU HAVE NOT, DR. RICHARDSON,

 

 

BEEN INSTRUCTED NOT TO TELL ME WHO WAS AT THE

 

 

MEETING WHERE YOU WALKED INTO THE ROOM AND PEOPLE

 

 

WERE SITTING THERE. AND WE KNOW MR. GREEN WAS NOT

 

 

THERE, SO WHO WAS? MR. BURGESS, I ASSUME WAS

 

 

THERE.

 

 

A. MR. BURGESS WAS THERE. JOHN DAVIS WAS THERE.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 223

 

 

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. IT WAS ACTUALLY VERY SPARSE BY THAT TIME, BECAUSE

 

 

IT WAS VERY LATE IN THE DAY. THERE WAS NOT AS

 

 

MUCH INTEREST AS YOU MIGHT THINK.

 

 

MR. REID: CAN WE ASK WHO HE PASSED

 

 

AS HE WALKED IN THE ROOM, SINCE THE MEETING

 

 

WAS TECHNICALLY OVER, AND THE PRIVILEGE

 

 

ENDED?

 

 

A. UH---

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: ARE YOU GOING TO INSTRUCT

 

 

HIM NOT TO INDICATE WHO PASSED HIM IN THE

 

 

HALL, MR. BURGESS?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: THAT'S RIGHT.

 

 

MR. REID: IT MUST BE GETTING NEAR FIVE

 

 

O'CLOCK.

 

 

A. I'M NOT SURE. THERE MAY HAVE BEEN ONE OTHER

 

 

PERSON, BUT I'M JUST NOT---

 

 

Q. YOU DID IT TO AN AUDIENCE OF TWO, DR. RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. IT MAY HAVE FALL -- IT WAS VERY FEW. I MEAN, IT

 

 

WASN'T MORE THAN FOUR. IT MAY HAVE BEEN THREE,

 

 

BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER. IT WAS VERY FEW. IT WAS---

 

 

Q. WAS MR. LARSON THERE?

 

 

A. NO, I DO NOT---

 

 

Q. MR. PARSONS?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 224

 

 

 

 

A. HE'S THE ONLY ONE THAT I'M THINKING OF, BUT I HAVE

 

 

A RECOLLECTION THAT HE MAY HAVE HAD TO LEAVE EARLY

 

 

FOR A FLIGHT CONNECTION---

 

 

Q. HOW DID---

 

 

A. --- YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW --

 

 

THEY PROBABLY GET TIRED OF HEARING THIS

 

 

INFORMATION.

 

 

Q. WHO ELSE DID PRESENTATIONS AT THAT MEETING?

 

 

A. AT MY MEETING?

 

 

Q. AT THE ONE THAT YOU WAITED IN LINE TO DO YOUR

 

 

PRESENTATION.

 

 

A. I WAS THE ONLY ONE. I WAS THE TAIL-E:ND. I CAME

 

 

IN LATE. IT WAS -- IT WAS IN THE EVENING. IT WAS

 

 

PAST SUPPER TIME, IF MY RECOLLECTION IS CORRECT.

 

 

Q. SO, YOU DID THE PRESENTATION THAT YOU WERE

 

 

OFFERING AT SAGE THE NEXT DAY?

 

 

A. CORRECT.

 

 

Q. WAS IT CRITIQUED OR COMMENTED ON?

 

 

A. NOT MUCH.

 

 

Q. APPLAUDED?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. NONE OF THE ABOVE?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. I THINK YOU INDICATE THAT YOU HAVE HAD OTHER

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 225

 

 

 

 

MEETINGS IN THIS -- IN THIS REGARD. I WOULD LIKE

 

 

TO KNOW WHAT THOSE HAVE BEEN.

 

 

A. IN WHICH REGARD?

 

 

Q. WHERE YOU HAVE MET WITH OTHER CONSULTANTS FOR THE

 

 

LEAGUE, AND/OR THE COOPERATIVE.

 

 

A. AS I MENTIONED TO YOU, I HAVE MET A NUMBER OF

 

 

TIMES FOR EQC, WHICH THERE COULD HAVE BEEN --

 

 

WELL, THERE WERE IN CERTAIN INSTANCES, CONSULTANTS

 

 

THERE.

 

 

Q. WHO WAS THERE?

 

 

A. WELL, DR. PATRICK AND DR. DAVIS PRIMARILY ARE THE

 

 

TWO. THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME OTHER PEOPLE, BUT

 

 

SOME OF THESE MEETINGS ARE TWO OR THREE YEARS OLD,

 

 

SO ITTS HARD TO SAY.

 

 

Q. MR. BARBER?

 

 

A. OH, YES. MR. BARBER WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE.

 

 

Q. HOW ABOUT MR. LARSON?

 

 

A. AS I SAID, MR. LARSON AND I HAVE CROSSED PATHS

 

 

VERY LITTLE IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, OTHER THAN

 

 

MAYBE AT A SAGE MEETING WHERE HE'S I14 ONE PLACE

 

 

AND I'M IN ANOTHER.

 

 

Q. SURE.

 

 

A. WE'VE NOT -- WE'VE NOT MET.

 

 

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW OFTEN YOU HAVE MET WITH

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 226

 

 

DR. DAVIS?

 

 

A. UH, A FEW TIMES. I DON'T KNOW, A HALF A DOZEN

 

 

TIMES, BUT NOT -- NOT SINGLY. PRIMARILY IN THESE

 

 

MEETINGS, HE WOULD BE IN THE SAME ROOM THAT I

 

 

WOULD BE IN.

 

 

Q. HAS DR. DAVIS OR ANY OF THE OTHER CONSULTANTS FOR

 

 

THE LEAGUE OR THE COOPERATIVE EVER PREPARED

 

 

VISUALS OR SLIDES OR EXHIBITS FOR YOU' TO USE AT A

 

 

PRESENTATION?

 

 

A. I BELIEVE IN '89, WHEN I WAS WORKING FOR THE

 

 

LEAGUE, SOME GENERAL 3-D GRAPHICS WERE PRODUCED

 

 

PRIMARILY OF BACKGROUNDS, WATER MANAGEMENT DATA.

 

 

NONE OF MY DATA, PER SE, THAT I CAN REMEMBER.

 

 

THERE MAY HAVE BEEN ONE OR TWO INSTANCES. MOST OF

 

 

IT WAS WHAT I CALL GENERIC RAINFALL DATA, SOUTH

 

 

FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT DAI'A, BECAUSE,

 

 

AT THAT TIME, WE DID NOT HAVE THE COMPUTER SYSTEM

 

 

AVAILABLE TO PRODUCE SLIDES---

 

 

Q. WAS THIS---

 

 

A. --- AND HE DID.

 

 

Q. OKAY. WAS THIS FOR A PRESENTATION TO THE WATER

 

 

MANAGEMENT BOARD?

 

 

A. ONE OF THEM, YES, IT WAS.

 

 

Q. HAD DR. DAVIS OR ANY OF THE OTHER CONSULTANTS

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 227

 

 

 

 

SUBSEQUENTLY PREPARED VISUALS OR SLIDES OR

GRAPHICS FOR YOU TO USE?

 

 

A. IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, I HAVE PRODUCED ALL OF MY

 

 

OWN SLIDES, TO MY KNOWLEDGE. THERE MAY BE ONE OR

 

 

TWO SLIDES THAT ARE AN EXCEPTION TO THAT. BUT

 

 

I'VE GOT OVER, AS YOU KNOW, FIFTEEN HUNDRED

 

 

SLIDES. I CAN'T REALLY ATTEST TO THAT. I

 

 

ACTUALLY HAVE TEN THOUSAND SLIDES, BUT IT TOOK ME

 

 

A LONG TIME TO SEPARATE THOSE FROM THE EVERGLADES

 

 

SLIDES.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: ALL RIGHT, DR. RICHARDSON,

 

 

I THINK WE'RE A LITTLE PAST FIVE AND I FEEL

 

 

THE ROOM GROWING RESTLESS, SO WE HAD

 

 

BETTER---

 

 

WITNESS: THE ANIMALS ARE HUNGRY.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: WE'LL START AGAIN IN THE

 

 

MORNING AT NINE.

 

 

WITNESS: AT NINE?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

 

(THEREUPON, THIS PORTION OF THE DEPOSITION OF

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON WAS RECESSED AT 5:06 P.M., TO

 

 

BE RESUMED AT 9:00 A.M. ON JANUARY 12, 1993.)

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 228

 

 

 

 

THE FOLLOWING PORTION OF THE DEPOSITION

 

 

OF DR. CURTIS JOHN RICHARDSON WAS TAKEN ON THE

4TH DAY OF JANUARY, 1993, BEGINNING AT OR AROUND

 

 

9:00 A.M. IN THE HILTON HOTEL, 3800 HILLSBOROUGH

 

 

ROAD, THE WALKER SUITE, DURHAM, NORTH

 

 

CAROLINA, AND WAS REPORTED BY PAMELA S. LILES,

 

 

A NOTARY PUBLIC.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: MR. McCAUGHAN -- I WOULD

 

 

LIKE TO PUT ON THE RECORD -- MR. McCAUGHAN

 

 

PHONED AND SAID THAT HE'S TIED UP IN A

 

 

CONFERENCE CALL, AND THAT WE COULD START

 

 

WITHOUT HIM, AND THAT HE WOULD BE HERE AS

 

 

SOON AS HE WAS ABLE.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: SUZAN, I WOULD ALSO LIKE

 

 

TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE RECORD, IF I MAY.

 

 

YES?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: (GESTURES.)

 

 

MR. BURGESS: YOU'RE GESTURING MY WAY.

 

 

IN MAKING MY OBJECTIONS YESTERDAY CONCERNING

 

 

INSTRUCTING THE WITNESS NOT TO ANSWER WHO WAS

 

 

PRESENT AT VARIOUS LITIGATION, CONSULTANT AND

 

 

OTHER MEETINGS, I WAS FOLLOWING THE LEAD OF

 

 

THE UNITED STATES SET IN THE FEDERAL SUIT,

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 229

 

 

 

 

SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARD TO THE FINLEY AND

 

 

WALKER DEPOSITIONS. HOWEVER, SINCE THE

 

 

STATEMENTS FROM THE UNITED STATES YESTERDAY

 

 

ON THE RECORD THAT DISCLOSURE IS A TWO-WAY

 

 

STREET, I AM NOT GOING TO INSTRUCT

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON NOT TO ANSWER SUCH QUESTIONS

 

 

CONCERNING THE NAMES OF PERSONS WHO WERE IN

 

 

ATTENDANCE AT THESE MEETINGS, INCLUDING THE

 

 

MEETINGS ABOUT WHICH HE SPOKE YESTERDAY, WITH

 

 

ONE EXCEPTION THAT I AM AWARE OF, ONE MEETING

 

 

THAT DR. RICHARDSON ATTENDED, THAT I ALSO

 

 

ATTENDED, WAS ATTENDED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT

 

 

NOW A LISTED TESTIFYING EXPERT FOR THE

 

 

LEAGUE, AND I THINK PURSUANT TO CASE LAW

 

 

UNTIL HE IS, IF EVER, LISTED AS A TESTIFYING

 

 

WITNESS, HIS IDENTITY MAY NOT BE DISCLOSED

 

 

THROUGH THIS WITNESS. THANK YOU.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: WELL, I GUESS -- THAT'S

 

 

QUITE AN INTERESTING CONCESSION, BECAUSE YOU

 

 

ACTUALLY DIDN'T CONCEDE MUCH, YOU KEPT BACK

 

 

THE ONE THING THAT WE HAD ARGUED OVER

 

 

YESTERDAY. BUT IF I HEAR YOU CORRECTLY,

 

 

YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT I MAY

 

 

ASK HIM WHO WAS IN ATTENDANCE AT THE PRIOR

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 230

 

 

 

 

MEETING. I WILL NOT, HOWEVER, IN REFERENCE

 

 

TO THE ISSUES THAT MR. GREEN AND I WERE

 

 

ALLUDING TO IN REGARD TO THE SETTLEMENT

 

 

DISCUSSION MEETINGS, WAIVE ANY OBJECTIONS OR

 

 

PRIVILEGES THE UNITED STATES CONTINUES TO

 

 

ASSERT. SO, I WANT TO BE FAIR WITH YOU IN

 

 

THAT REGARD. OUR POSITION REGARDING THOSE

 

 

MEETINGS IS NOT GOING TO BE ALTERED BY YOUR

 

 

STATEMENT. BUT IF I UNDERSTAND YOU

 

 

CORRECTLY, YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT YOU HAVE

 

 

WITHDRAWN YOUR INSTRUCTION TO YOUR WITNESS TO

 

 

ANSWER, EXCEPT AS TO THE ONE INDIVIDUAL YOU

 

 

INDICATE IS A -- I THINK I CAN HAVE THE

 

 

IDENTITY OF A CONSULTANT; I JUST DON'T THINK

 

 

I CAN HAVE HIS DEPOSITION, MR. BURGESS, SO I

 

 

THINK I WOULD ASK YOU TO RECONSIDER THAT.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: I DISAGREE.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: SO, YOU ARE INSTRUCTING

 

 

HIM NOT TO GIVE ME THAT PARTICULAR CON --

 

 

YOU'RE CALLING THIS A CONSULTANT, IS THAT

 

 

ACCURATE?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: RIGHT, A NON-TESTIFYING

 

 

CONSULTANT.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: OKAY.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 231

 

 

 

 

MR. BURGESS: AND I DISAGREE. I THINK

 

 

IT IS A MAJOR CONCESSION ON OUR PART, WHICH

 

 

I UNDERSTAND IS GOING TO OPERATE AS A

 

 

QUID PRO QUO WITH RESPECT TO CONSULTANT

 

 

MEETINGS AND THE NAMES OF PERSONS IN

 

 

ATTENDANCE AT CONSULTANT MEETINGS, IF THOSE

 

 

PERSONS ARE EITHER ATTORNEYS, CLIENTS, OR

 

 

LISTED AS TESTIFYING EXPERT WITNESSES. AND I

 

 

WOULD EXPECT THAT IF YOU HAVE NON-TESTIFYING

 

 

EXPERT CONSULTANTS YOU WOULD ALSO REFRAIN

 

 

FROM IDENTIFYING THEM BASED UPON THE INSTANCE

 

 

THAT I JUST MENTIONED.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: WELL, SINCE YOU'VE

 

 

OBVIOUSLY SPENT THE EVENING DISCUSSING THIS

 

 

WITH MR. GREEN AND HAD A PREPARED STATEMENT

 

 

TO READ, I SUGGEST WE GO OFF THE RECORD AND I

 

 

HAVE BRIEF MEETING WITH MY CO-RE:SPONDENTS AND

 

 

SEE IF WE WANT TO COME BACK WITH A POSITION

 

 

THAT WE'LL PUT ON THE RECORD.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: OKAY.

 

 

(THEREUPON, A SHORT

 

 

BREAK WAS TAKEN.)

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: GOING BACK ON THE RECORD.

 

 

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO WANT TO TAKE THIS ON

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 232

 

 

 

 

A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS. WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT

 

 

WILLING TO ENTER SOME GLOBAL STIPULATION AT

 

 

THIS POINT, MR. BURGESS. BUT SINCE YOU HAVE

 

 

NARROWED YOUR INSTRUCTION ABOUT NOT

 

 

ANSWERING, THEN I THINK I WILL ASK

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON.

 

 

EXAMINATION BY MS. PONZOLI CONTINUES:

 

 

Q. YOU WERE WAITING IN THE HALL AT THIS MEETING IN

 

 

PREPARATION FOR SORT OF A DRY RUN OF YOUR SAGE

 

 

PRESENTATION, DR. RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. THAT'S CORRECT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE INDIVIDUAL YOUR

 

 

LAWYER HAS INSTRUCTED YOU NOT TO REVEAL -- I

 

 

ASSUME YOU KNOW WHO THIS PERSON WAS, DO YOU?

 

 

A. THE PERSON THAT I'M---

 

 

Q. THAT YOU'VE BEEN INSTRUCTED NOT TO REVEAL.

 

 

A. YES.

 

 

Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THAT

 

 

PERSON, PLEASE TELL ME WHO WAS IN ATTENDANCE AT

 

 

THAT PRE-MEETING.

 

 

A. AT THE PRE-MEETING?

 

 

Q. YES, SIR.

 

 

A. WELL, SINCE I SAID I ONLY JUST SORT OF POPPED IN

 

 

AND SAID I WAS -- "I'M HERE." AND THEY SAID, "GO

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 233

 

 

 

 

OUT, WAIT IN THE HALLWAY." AND THEN, OF COURSE,

 

 

WHEN THE MEETING BROKE UP, I SAW SOME PEOPLE IN

 

 

THE ROOM. I DID NOT SEE ALL THE PEOPLE. THERE

 

 

WERE -- I DON'T KNOW, I CAN'T TELL YOU THE TOTAL

 

 

NUMBER.

 

 

Q. TEN, MAYBE?

 

 

A. MAYBE TEN, MAYBE TWELVE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. --- I HAVE NO IDEA OF THE TOTAL. I DIDN'T COUNT

 

 

THEM.

 

 

Q. WAS MR. WEDGWORTH ONE OF THEM?

 

 

A. I DON'T REMEMBER, SERIOUSLY.

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. THE PEOPLE I CAN REMEMBER IN THAT ROOM WERE PHIL

 

 

PARSONS, JOHN DAVIS, RICK BURGESS, DE,

 

 

BREEDLOVE---

 

 

Q. DENNIS BREEDLOW?

 

 

A. BREEDLOVE, I THINK IT IS.

 

 

Q. OH.

 

 

A. COURTNEY HACKNEY. THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME OTHER

 

 

ATTORNEYS THERE FROM PEEPLES, EARL AND BLANK, BUT

 

 

I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHICH ONES THEY WERE. I

 

 

JUST DON'T -- I CAN'T REMEMBER.

 

 

Q. MS. CAVANAUGH OR MR. EARL?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 234

 

 

 

 

A. I THINK BILL EARL WAS THERE.

 

 

Q. MR. BUKER?

 

 

A. YES, HE WAS THERE.

 

 

Q. ANYONE FROM FLO SUN?

 

 

A. I CAN'T REMEMBER. AS I SAID, I REALLY DIDN'T -- I

 

 

REALLY---

 

 

Q. PETE ROSENDAHL?

 

 

A. YEAH, I THINK PETE ROSENDAHL WAS THERE.

 

 

Q. WE'VE GOT EIGHT. AND WE KNOW MR. GREEN WASN'T

 

 

THERE.

 

 

A. I THINK I TOLD YOU YESTERDAY I WASN'T SURE IF HE

 

 

WAS OR HE WASN'T.

 

 

Q. HE TOLD US.

 

 

MR. GREEN: NOT THAT I WOULDN'T

 

 

HAVE ENJOYED BEING THERE.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: THEY DIDN'T INVITE

 

 

ME EITHER.

 

 

WITNESS: THEY DIDN'T INVITE ME

 

 

EITHER; I HAD TO WAIT IN THE HALLWAY.

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WAS THERE A REASON FOR THAT,

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. I THINK -- WELL, THEY'VE HAD A NUMBER OF

 

 

CONSULTANT MEETINGS WHICH I AM NOT INVOLVED

 

 

WITH.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 235

 

 

 

 

Q. WAS THIS A CONSULTANT MEETING, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

 

 

A. I BELIEVE SO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND WERE THEY HAVING A PRESENTATION BY THIS

 

 

OTHER PERSON WHOM YOUFVE BEEN INSTRUCTED NOT TO

 

 

IDENTIFY?

 

 

A. I WAS NOT AT THAT MEETING.

 

 

Q. OKAY. SO, YOU DON'T KNOW IF THE OTHER PERSON DID

 

 

A PRESENTATION OR NOT, YOU HAD NO EVIDENCE THAT

 

 

THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE ONE?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND THAT'S ALL THE PEOPLE YOU CAN REMEMBER

 

 

AT THAT MEETING?

 

 

A. THAT'S ALL I CAN REMEMBER. AND I'D BE

 

 

SPECULATING, I MEAN, YOU KNOW. AND I MAY NOT BE

 

 

A HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE ON THOSE, -.1 MEAN. BUT

 

 

I -- YOU KNOW, IT'S REASONABLE -- IT'S A

 

 

REASONABLE LIST.

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT

 

 

MISTER -- YOU THINK, TO THE BEST OF YOUR

 

 

RECOLLECTION, APPROXIMATELY, MR. PARSONS,

 

 

MR. BURGESS, MR. DAVIS, MAY HAVE REMAINED BEHIND

 

 

TO HEAR YOUR DRY RUN OF YOUR SAGE PRESENTATION,

 

 

IS THAT ACCURATE?

 

 

A. YES.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 236

 

 

 

 

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHY YOU WERE EXCLUDED FROM THAT FIRST

 

 

MEETING?

 

 

A. WELL, AS I SAID, IT'S -- FOR THE FIRST -- WELL,

 

 

SINCE THE INCEPTION OF THE GRANT, WHILE I HAVE

 

 

ADVISED THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE ON SOME MATTERS AS

 

 

TO THE EXPERTS THEY MIGHT CONSIDER, OR SOME

 

 

SPECIFIC MATTERS, OR DOCUMENTS, OR OTHER TYPES OF

 

 

INFORMATION, I HAVE NOT BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE

 

 

CONSULTANTS; I HAVE NOT BEEN WORKING IN THE FIELD

 

 

WITH THEM, NOR HAVE I -- THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS

 

 

TO THAT RELATED TO REVIEWING, AS I MENTIONED THE

 

 

OTHER DAY, THE ENTRY INTO THE PARK; I HAVE LOOKED

 

 

AT SOME OF THAT DOCUMENTATION. BUT IN TERMS OF

 

 

THE WORK THAT THE CONSULTANTS ARE DOING, I'M

 

 

REALLY -- OTHER THAN A VERY CURSORY WAY, I'M

 

 

REALLY NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THEY'RE DOING, AND

 

 

THAT'S BEEN KEPT THAT WAY, BOTH FROM 'THEIR POINT

 

 

OF VIEW AND FROM MY POINT OF VIEW. IT'S ONLY

 

 

DONE, I GUESS, AS A WAY TO KEEP SEPARATE THE

 

 

A. RESEARCH COMPONENT AND WHAT CONSULTANCIES I DO

 

 

FOR THEM. AND, SO, I THINK BASICALLY IN THAT

 

 

PARTICULAR CASE, I MEAN, I'M JUST NOT -- I'M NOT

 

 

PRIVY TO THE INFORMATION OR WHAT THEY'VE DISCUSSED

 

 

IN TERMS OF THEIR CONSULTANCY WORK.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 237

 

 

 

 

Q. WAS THIS EVER EXPLAINED TO YOU AS AN ACTUAL

 

 

STRATEGY THAT THE VARIOUS CONSULTANTS WOULD BE

 

 

KEPT SEPARATE, EXCEPT IN CERTAIN FORMAL LINES OF

 

 

COMMUNICATION?

 

 

A. WELL, AS I TOLD YOU EARLIER, WHEN I STARTED WITH

 

 

GEORGE -- WORKING WITH GEORGE WEDGWORTH, WHO AT

 

 

THAT TIME WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE SUGAR CANE

 

 

LEAGUE, INITIALLY, I BASICALLY POINTED OUT THAT

 

 

THE UNIVERSITY WOULD WORK ON THE BASIS THAT THE

 

 

INFORMATION WE WOULD GATHER WOULD BE OPEN AND IN

 

 

OPEN FORUM; THAT WE WOULD HAVE STUDENTS INVOLVED;

 

 

AND THAT WE WOULD HAVE JUNIOR FACULTY MEMBERS

 

 

INVOLVED, AND THEY MUST BE ALLOWED TO PUBLISH;

 

 

AND -- OTHERWISE, THE UNIVERSITY -- WE WOULD BE

 

 

INTERESTED MORE IN THE BASIC RESEARCH THAN WHAT'S

 

 

GOING ON. AND GEORGE WAS ABSOLUTELY 'INSISTENT,

 

 

WHILE HE WAS HEAD OF THE LEAGUE, AND ALSO EARLY

 

 

ON, AND STILL, AS FAR AS I KNOW IN MY EVEN MORE

 

 

RECENT CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM, THAT THAT IS THE

 

 

APPROPRIATE TACK TO TAKE. SO, FROM MY POINT OF

 

 

VIEW, I THINK IT'S AN APPROPRIATE ONE; AND FROM

 

 

THEIR POINT OF VIEW, IT'S AN APPROPRIATE ONE. SO,

 

 

FOR THE RESEARCH PART, WE'VE TRIED TO KEEP THOSE

 

 

AS SEPARATE AS POSSIBLE. I HAVE KEPT THEM

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 238

 

 

 

 

ABREAST, AND I DO THAT CONTINUALLY WHEN THEY ASK,

 

 

OR ANY ORGANIZATION ASKS WHAT ARE MY FINDINGS TO

 

 

DATE, I DO MAKE THOSE PRESENTATIONS. BUT I THINK

 

 

IT WAS -- SO, I THINK I'VE ANSWERED -- DID I

 

 

ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?

 

 

Q. NO, SIR, I DON'T THINK YOU DID. I THINK I ASKED

 

 

YOU WAS IT EVER EXPLAINED TO YOU WHY -- OR THAT

 

 

THERE WOULD BE FORMAL LINES OF COMMUNICATION

 

 

REGARDING KEEPING THE CONSULTANTS SEPARATE.

 

 

YOU'VE EXPLAINED TO ME WHAT MR. WEDGWORTH WANTED,

 

 

WHICH HE HAS EXPLAINED TO ME. AND YOU HAVE

 

 

EXPLAINED TO ME WHY YOU FIND IT AN APPEALING

 

 

PROCEDURE/PROTOCOL FOR YOUR PURPOSES AND FOR

 

 

THE UNIVERSITY'S PURPOSES. BUT MY QUESTION WAS,

 

 

DID MR. EARL, OR ANY OTHER ATTORNEY OR CONSULTANT

 

 

ON BEHALF OF THAT FIRM OR THOSE CLIENTS, EXPLAIN

 

 

TO YOU THAT THERE WOULD BE A PROTOCOL OF THIS

 

 

TYPE?

 

 

A. I DON'T REMEMBER ANY SPECIFICS, EXCEPT FOR THE

 

 

FACT THAT I THINK FROM SEVERAL MEETINGS THAT WERE

 

 

HELD, I MADE IT PRETTY CLEAR IN TERMS OF MY AREAS

 

 

OF RESEARCH THAT THEY WERE OPEN TO PUBLIC FORUM.

 

 

AND I THINK THE ATTORNEYS, IN CERTAIN AREAS, FELT

 

 

THAT THEY NEEDED TO HAVE, I GUESS, ATTORNEY/CLIENT

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 239

 

 

 

 

PRIVILEGE, AND SO THEREFORE THEY MADE A DECISION

 

 

EARLY ON TO GO A SEPARATE WAY, AND USE A DIFFERENT

 

 

SET OF CONSULTANTS TO DO SOME TYPES OF WORK. AND

 

 

SINCE MY -- ESPECIALLY WHEN WE WENT TO THE EPD,

 

 

SINCE MY WORK WAS GOING TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC

 

 

ANYWAYS, THEY COULD USE THAT WORK AND THEN USE --

 

 

UTILIZE MY EXPERTISE TO HELP THEM SIMPLY SELECT

 

 

OTHER PEOPLE, AND TO REVIEW DOCUMENTS---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. --- SO, I'M SURE -- I MEAN, QUITE SURE THAT BY

 

 

UTILIZING THAT STRATEGY, ESSENTIALLY, THAT IT

 

 

KEPT ME SOMEWHAT IN THE DARK AS TO WHAT THEY WERE

 

 

DOING, WHICH AT TIMES, YOU KNOW, FOR THEM, I

 

 

SUPPOSE, WAS A BENEFIT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. SO, THESE WERE MEETINGS HELD IN 188, 189,

 

 

WHERE THIS SEPARATION OF SOME CONSULTANTS TO DO

 

 

SOME TASKS, AND THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, AND YOU

 

 

AND YOUR PEOPLE TO DO OTHER TASKS WAS DISCUSSED,

 

 

AND THE INTERFACE BETWEEN THE TWO?

 

 

A. WELL, THEY WEREN'T DISCUSSED WITH MY STAFF. I

 

 

MEAN, BASICALLY, THEY DISCUSSED IT WITH ME. MY

 

 

STAFF HAS ALWAYS BEEN KEPT ABSOLUTELY -- THEY HAVE

 

 

NOT BEEN INVOLVED VERY MUCH WITH THAT.

 

 

Q. WHEN YOU SAY "VERY MUCH," WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 240

 

 

 

 

A. THEY HAVE NOT ATTENDED MEETINGS. THE EXCEPTION TO

 

 

THAT, I THINK, MAY BE DR. RADER, WHO MAY HAVE

 

 

ATTENDED A MEETING OR TWO. BUT DR. QUALLS AND MY

 

 

STUDENTS AND DR. CRAFT, AND BOB JOHNSON, OTHER

 

 

THAN JUST, SAY, MAYBE AN OCCASIONAL MEETING OR A

 

 

LUNCH OR SOMETHING, THEY HAVE NOT ATTENDED FORMAL

 

 

MEETINGS, AND THAT WAS THE WAY -- WE HAVE HAD

 

 

SOME -- WE HAVE HAD -- THEY'VE HAD SOME CONTACT

 

 

WHEN, IN FACT, THEY WOULD BE OUT IN THE FIELD --

 

 

AS WE'VE HAD WITH ALMOST ANYONE -- THE SUGAR CANE

 

 

LEAGUE, THE CO-OP, THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER

 

 

MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. ALL SORTS OF VISITORS COME

 

 

TO OUR SITE AND ASK CAN WE GO ALONG ON A BOAT RIDE

 

 

AND SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING, OR CAN WE TAKE -- CAN

 

 

YOU TAKE US OUT IN THE FIELD. AND SO WE'VE HAD A

 

 

HOST OF PEOPLE, EPD PEOPLE, WHO ON SOME REGULAR

 

 

BASIS -- WE JUST DON'T -- WE'RE NOT A TOUR OUTFIT,

 

 

SO WE BASICALLY KEEP THAT A -- SO, I'M SAYING THEY

 

 

MAY HAVE BEEN OUT IN THE FIELD WITH THEM FOR AN

 

 

AFTERNOON WHEN THEY WERE DOING SOME WORK.

 

 

Q. DID YOU RECOMMEND THE PERSON, DR. RICHARDSON, WHO

 

 

HAS -- YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO NAME AT

 

 

THAT ONE MEETING. WAS THIS A CONSULTANT YOU HAD

 

 

RECOMMENDED?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 241

 

 

 

 

A. ARE WE BACK TO---

 

 

Q. YEAH, WE'RE BACK TO -- I THINK THIS MAY BE THE

 

 

LAST QUESTION ON THAT ONE.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: YOU'RE RIGHT.

 

 

A. YES, I BELIEVE SO.

 

 

Q. OH. OF THE EXPERTS THAT THE FLORIDA SUGAR CANE

 

 

LEAGUE AND/OR THE CO-OP ARE USING IN THIS MATTER,

 

 

I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHICH OF THEM YOU HAVE

 

 

RECOMMENDED TO THEM.

 

 

A. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH ALL OF THE EXPERTS THEY ARE

 

 

USING, SO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET ME READ THEM TO YOU.

 

 

A. I THINK---

 

 

Q. I'LL JUST READ THEM---

 

 

A. ALL RIGHT.

 

 

Q. --- IT WON'T TAKE THAT LONG. WE'LL GO THROUGH THE

 

 

LEAGUE'S LIST FIRST, AND THEN WE'LL GO THROUGH THE

 

 

CO-OP'S LIST.

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. DO YOU RECALL WHY YOU RECOMMENDED THE SECRET

 

 

EXPERT, DR. RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. DO I RECALL WHY?

 

 

Q. YES, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. YES.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 242

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q. WHY?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: DON'T ANSWER IT.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: BASED ON THAT WOULD

 

 

REVEAL SOME STRATEGY OF THE LEAGUE?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: YES. THIS IN RESPONSE

 

 

TO MY QUESTION. YOU'VE GOT IT.

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) DR. POLOPOLUS, DID YOU RECOMMEND

 

 

DR. POLOPOLUS? I'M JUST GOING TO GIVE THEIR

 

 

NAMES, AND YOU CAN TELL ME YES OR NO.

 

 

A. I'D LIKE TO -- DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THIS ONE?

 

 

LOOKING AT IT AT THE SAME TIME, IT WOULD HELP ME

 

 

WITH THAT.

 

 

Q. NO, I HAVE A SINGLE COPY. I DON'T KNOW.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE A

 

 

LIST OF THE LEAGUE'S EXPERT WITNESSES AND

 

 

THE CO-OP'S EXPERT WITNESSES?

 

 

MR. KILLINGER: I'VE GOT ONE IN MY ROOM

 

 

I CAN GO GET IT.

 

 

MR. GREEN: I'VE GOT ONE IN MY ROOM.

 

 

A. DOES SOMEONE NEED ONE?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: WHY DON'T YOU DO THAT --

 

 

DO YOU MIND GETTING YOURS AND I'LL JUST

 

 

START CALLING THEM OUT, THEN, UNTIL YOU GET

 

 

HERE.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 243

 

 

 

 

WITNESS: THIS SOMETIMES HELPS ME.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: DO YOU MIND IF WE DO THAT?

 

 

DO YOU WANT US TO WAIT FOR YOU, LEE?

 

 

MR. KILLINGER: YEAH, IT'LL JUST BE A

 

 

BRIEF SECOND.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: OKAY.

 

 

(MR. KILLINGER LEAVES THE ROOM

 

 

BRIEFLY TO GO GET A DOCUMENT.)

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: YOU CAN START LOOKING SO

 

 

THAT IT'LL GO FASTER.

 

 

WITNESS: NOW, THE QUESTION IS, WHICH

 

 

ONES---

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: I'M GOING TO WANT TO KNOW

 

 

WHICH OF THESE PEOPLE YOU RECOMMENDED.

 

 

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

 

 

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

 

 

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

 

 

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

 

 

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

 

 

MR. KILLINGER: IS THAT THE RIGHT DATE

 

 

ON THERE?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE

 

 

RIGHT ONE.

 

 

MR. KILLINGER: IT MAY NOT BE.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 244

 

 

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: IT'S THE PRELIMINARY

DISCLOSURE. THERE'S ABOUT THREE OF THEM,

LEE.

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

 

 

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

 

 

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

 

 

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WELL, WE CAN -- CAN WE STAND

 

 

TOGETHER AND JUST GO OVER THEM PRETTY RAPIDLY,

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON; WOULD THAT WORK FOR YOU?

 

 

A. DO YOU HAVE A LIST YOURSELF NOW, OR NO?

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES). WELL, NO, I DON'T HAVE A LIST, I'LL

 

 

JUST STAND---

 

 

A. OH, OKAY. YOU WANT TO---

 

 

Q. YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST COVER---

 

 

A. --- OKAY. YOU WANT TO LOOK OVER MY SHOULDER HERE.

 

 

OKAY.

 

 

I'LL LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, SURE, WE'LL JUST

 

 

MOVE RIGHT THROUGH THIS, BECAUSE I CAN'T IMAGE YOU

 

 

RECOMMENDED ALL THESE PEOPLE, YEAH.

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON, MY QUESTION IS, IS WHICH OF

 

 

THESE EXPERTS DID YOU RECOMMEND TO THE LEAGUE, AND

 

 

I'LL JUST CALL OUT THE NAME AND YOU CAN SAY YES OR

 

 

NO.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 245

 

 

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. DR. LEO POLOPOLUS?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. DR. JAMES RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. DR. JOHN DAVIS?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. DR. MICHAEL DENNIS?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. DOC -- NO -- MR. HOWELL?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. MR. LARSON?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. DR. PATRICK?

 

 

A. I MENTIONED HIS NAME.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. DID YOU -- YOU WERE THE ONE WHO

 

 

INTRODUCED DR. PATRICK, OR YOU JUST MENTIONED HIS

 

 

NAME?

 

 

A. WELL, THEY'VE ASKED -- YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, I

 

 

HAVE BEEN ASKED FROM TIME TO TIME CERTAIN PEOPLE,

 

 

AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY CONTACTED THEM FIRST, I

 

 

DON'T KNOW. I CAN ONLY SAY WHETHER I RECOMMENDED

 

 

THEM OR NOT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. WHAT DID YOU RECOMMEND DR. PATRICK FOR?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 246

 

 

 

 

MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM.

 

 

HE NEVER SAID HE RECOMMENDED HIM FOR

 

 

ANYTHING.

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WHAT DID YOU MENTION DR. PATRICK

 

 

FOR---

 

 

A. I SAID---

 

 

Q. --- DR. RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. --- I SAID HE WAS ONE OF THE LEADING WETLANDS SOIL

 

 

SCIENTISTS IN THE COUNTRY IN BIOGEOCHEMICAL

 

 

CYCLING.

 

 

Q. OKAY. IS HE BEING USED FOR THOSE PURPOSES, TO

 

 

YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

 

 

A. I ONLY KNOW IN GENERAL TERMS OF WHAT HE'S DOING.

 

 

Q. WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE DR. PATRICK IS DOING?

 

 

A. SOME OF THE SAME THINGS THAT I'M DOING. IN

 

 

GENERAL, HE'S REVIEWING DOCUMENTS FOR THE GROUP.

 

 

I THINK HE MADE A PRESENTATION ON -- AT THE SAGE

 

 

MEETING -- ON THE CALCIUM WORK HE WAS DOING.

 

 

AND HE ORIGINALLY DID THE CESIUM 137 WORK FOR

 

 

A. DR. REDDY SINCE DR. REDDY CANNOT DO THAT WORK IN

 

 

HIS LABORATORY.

 

 

Q. OKAY. HAS DR. PATRICK DONE ANY MERCURY WORK, TO

 

 

YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IN THE EAA?

 

 

A. I SAW A PRESENTATION THAT HE GAVE, I BELIEVE, AT A

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 247

 

 

 

 

MERCURY CONFERENCE IN FLORIDA WHERE HE PRESENTED

 

 

SOME DATA. AND I BELIEVE THAT DATA WAS TAKEN ON

 

 

SOME CROP SPECIES, AND I BELIEVE THAT WAS IN THE

 

 

EAA. SO, HE HAD -- HIS LABORATORY HAD ANALYZED

 

 

SOME MERCURY.

 

 

Q. HAVE YOU EVER COLLABORATED WITH DR. PATRICK ON ANY

 

 

MERCURY WORK?

 

 

A. NO, I HAVE NOT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. HAS DR. PATRICK EVER REVIEWED ANY MERCURY

 

 

WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE?

 

 

A. THAT'S HARD TO SAY.

 

 

Q. WELL, THAT YOU KNEW THAT HE WAS REVIEWING, NOT

 

 

THAT HE -- YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT YOU WERE AWARE

 

 

OF?

 

 

A. NOTHING HE'S EVER INFORMED ME.

 

 

Q. RIGHT. OR, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU SENT TO HIM FOR

 

 

REVIEW?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. IS TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IS DR. PATRICK

 

 

DOING ANY FIELDWORK ON LIMESTONE DITCHES?

 

 

A. I THINK HE HAS A PROJECT THAT HE-S WORKING WITH,

 

 

I THINK, IN CONJUNCTION WITH ONE OF THE SUGAR

 

 

COMPANIES. I BELIEVE HE HAS A FIELD PROJECT THAT

 

 

HE'S WORKING ON.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 248

 

 

 

 

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT'S LOCATED?

 

 

A. I HAVE NOT BEEN THERE; I HAVE NOT SEEN IT.

 

 

Q. DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT'S BEEN GOING ON?

 

 

A. I'D SAY YOU'RE PROBABLY TALKING A YEAR MAYBE,

 

 

SOMEWHERE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. IT COULD BE A

 

 

LITTLE LONGER; IT COULD BE A LITTLE SHORTER, BUT

 

 

THAT'S MY RECOLLECTION.

 

 

Q. SURE. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY RESULTS FROM THAT

 

 

FIELDWORK?

 

 

A. I DON'T THINK I'VE SEEN -- THERE MAY HAVE BEEN

 

 

SOME GENERAL COMMENTS MADE ABOUT IT, BUT I DON'T

 

 

THINK I'VE SEEN ANY DATA ON THAT. I DONFT -- TO

 

 

MY KNOWLEDGE, I HAVEN'T. I'M TRYING THINK. I'VE

 

 

NOT SEEN ANYTHING WRITTEN ON THAT.

 

 

MR. GREEN: MS. PONZOLI, WE WOULDN'T

 

 

OBJECT TO YOU READING FROM THE LIST AND

 

 

PASSING BACK AND FORTH AND SITTING IN THE

 

 

SEAT THAT YOU BEGAN THE DEPOSITION FROM.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: OH, I DON'T HAVE ANY

 

 

PROBLEM DOING IT THAT WAY, EITHER.

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON HAD WANTED TO READ FROM

 

 

THE LIST, MR. GREEN. IF YOU WOULD

 

 

RATHER I---

 

 

MR. GREEN: I UNDERSTAND.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 249

 

 

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: --- RETURN, I'LL BE HAPPY

 

 

TO.

 

 

MR. GREEN: I WOULD RATHER YOU RETURN,

 

 

THANK YOU.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: OKAY.

 

 

(BY MS. PONZOLI) WHAT WERE THE GENERAL COMMENTS,

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON, THAT YOU REFERRED TO OF

 

 

DR. PATRICK OR ABOUT DR. PATRICK?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: WOULD YOU LIFE TO GET

 

 

YOUR LIST, MR. GREEN, SO THAT WE WOULD BE

 

 

ABLE TO EACH HAVE ONE, OR WOULD YOU RATHER

 

 

YOUR WITNESS JUST ANSWER ME FROM, MY READING

 

 

OUT THE NAMES?

 

 

MR. GREEN: I THOUGHT HE HAD A COPY OF

 

 

THE LIST THERE?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: THAT'S MY COPY.

 

 

MR. GREEN: OH.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

 

 

MR. GREEN: SURE, I'LL GET IT. GIVE ME

 

 

A. FIVE MINUTES.

 

 

WITNESS: ARE WE STILL ON THE RECORD, OR

 

 

ARE WE OFF THE RECORD?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: NO, WE'RE OFF THE RECORD.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: WEFRE OFF THE RECORD.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 250

 

 

 

 

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

 

 

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

 

 

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

 

 

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

 

 

WITNESS: OKAY, WHERE ARE WE? OH, WE

 

 

NEVER GOT -- WE'RE STILL -- I ASSUME WE'RE

 

 

STILL ON PATRICK.

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) ALL RIGHT. WE'RE UP TO

 

 

DR. PATRICK, THE COMMENTS, THE QUESTION -- THE

 

 

PENDING---

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: WOULD YOU READ BACK

 

 

THE PENDING QUESTION TO DR. RICHARDSON---

 

 

Q. DO YOU REMEMBER THE PENDING QUESTION?

 

 

A. WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

 

 

Q. WHAT'S THE MATTER? WHAT WERE THE GENERAL

 

 

COMMENTS? DO YOU REMEMBER, DR. RICHARDSON, THE

 

 

QUESTION?

 

 

(THEREUPON, THE QUESTION APPEARING

 

 

ON PAGE 249, LINES 7-9, INCLUSIVE,

 

 

WAS REPEATED BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

 

 

A. THE GENERAL COMMENTS WERE -- AS I SAID, I HAVE NOT

 

 

SEEN ANY DATA ON THAT THE PROJECT. MY

 

 

RECOLLECTION WAS THE PROJECT WAS -- WAS BEING PUT

 

 

INTO PLACE, OR WAS IN PLACE, AND THAT THEY WERE

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 251

 

 

 

 

STARTING TO COLLECT DATA AT THIS ONE FIELD

 

 

LOCATION, I BELIEVE IT WAS, AND SOME GENERAL

 

 

THINGS, I THINK, ABOUT THE SIZE OF IT AND SO

 

 

FORTH.

 

 

Q. WAS IT YOUR IMPRESSION THAT IT WAS BEING

 

 

SUCCESSFUL OR NOT?

 

 

A. I THINK THERE WAS SOME OPTIMISM, YES, THAT IT WAS

 

 

SUCCESSFUL.

 

 

Q. IS THIS ONE OF THE ALTERNATIVES? REMEMBER, I KEPT

 

 

TRYING TO GET YOU TO TELL ME WHAT ALTERNATIVES YOU

 

 

WERE IN FAVOR OF?

 

 

A. I THINK THE USE OF LIMESTONE OR CALCIUM WAS

 

 

MENTIONED AS A POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVE, NOT THE

 

 

SPECIFIC RESEARCH PROJECT. I THINK I WOULD HAVE

 

 

RECOMMENDED RESEARCH BE DONE ON THIS TYPE OF TOPIC

 

 

FOR SURE. BUT I CAN'T SAY THAT I SPECIFICALLY

 

 

MENTIONED THE EXACT APPROACH THEY'RE USING, BUT IT

 

 

WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, I ASSUM@E.

 

 

Q. BUT YOU'RE NOT ENDORSING THIS PARTICULAR

 

 

ALTERNATIVE AT THIS TIME?

 

 

A. NO, NOT AS -- I'M ENDORSING THE IDEA OF DOING

 

 

AND TRYING AS MANY OF THESE TECHNIQUES AS

 

 

POSSIBLE TO COME UP WITH AS GOOD A SOLUTION AS

 

 

POSSIBLE.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 252

 

 

 

 

Q. IS THIS FIELD STUDY, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IS IT A

 

 

FIELD APPLICATION OF LABORATORY WORK THAT

 

 

DR. PATRICK HAS DONE?

 

 

A. IT MAY VERY WELL BE AN EXTENSION OF WHAT HE

 

 

PRESENTED AS SOME LABORATORY WORK THAT HE HAD

 

 

DONE. THAT WOULD BE THE WAY THAT I WOULD ASSESS

 

 

THAT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. DR. RADER IS THE NEXT PERSON ON MY LIST.

 

 

DID YOU RECOMMEND THAT DR. RADER BE INCLUDED AMONG

 

 

THEIR TESTIFYING WITNESSES?

 

 

A. I CAN'T REMEMBER IF I -- I CAN'T REMEMBER IF I DID

 

 

OR DIDN'T. I THINK IN TERMS---

 

 

MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM

 

 

OF THE QUESTION BEFORE HE ANSWERS IT.

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: WHAT WAS WRONG WITH

 

 

THE FORM?

 

 

MR. BURGESS: THAT HE SOMEHOW OBJECTED

 

 

AS TO WHO -- THAT HE SOMEHOW RECOMMENDED AS

 

 

TO WHO SHOULD TESTIFY IN THIS CASE.

 

 

A. WITNESS: SO, THE QUESTION IS, DID I

 

 

RECOMMEND HIM?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: YES, SIR.

 

 

MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM, IF

 

 

THAT'S THE QUESTION.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 253

 

 

 

 

A. AS AN EXPERT, I THINK I MAY HAVE BEEN ASKED

 

 

WHETHER DR. RADER -- WAS IT MY OPINION WHETHER

 

 

DR. RADER -- I GUESS -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'D

 

 

SAY -- HIS WORK IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA WAS. YOU

 

 

KNOW, A LARGE -- WAS IT A LARGE DATABASE, HOW IT

 

 

WAS DONE, WHETHER HE WAS AN EXPERT IN THAT

 

 

PARTICULAR AREA; AND I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT HE

 

 

WOULD BE.

 

 

Q. ARE YOU INDICATING THAT THE ATTORNEYS SOLICITED

 

 

THE USE OF DR. RADER FROM YOU, IS THAT YOUR

 

 

TESTIMONY?

 

 

A. I THINK THEY -- NO, I'M NOT SURE -- I CAN'T

 

 

REMEMBER THE EXACT WAY IN WHICH THIS WAS DONE,

 

 

WHETHER OR NOT, IN FACT -- AND I'M JUST TRYING

 

 

TO THINK OF HOW THAT WAS DONE. I THINK THEY

 

 

ACTUALLY WENT TO DR. RADER AND ASKED WHETHER HE

 

 

WOULD BE WILLING TO BE AN EXPERT IN THIS

 

 

PARTICULAR AREA.

 

 

OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU, DR. RICHARDSON, DID YOU

 

 

EVER SIT AND HELP PUT THE BIG PICTURE TOGETHER,

 

 

AND FIGURE OUT WHAT KINDS OF EXPERTS WERE NEEDED,

 

 

AND REBUTTAL EXPERTS, EXPERTS THAT HAD BEEN LISTED

 

 

BY OTHER PARTIES, DID YOU EVER PERFORM---

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 254

 

 

Q. --- THAT FUNCTION?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. HOW DID YOU COME ABOUT RECOMMENDING EXPERTS TO THE

 

 

ATTORNEYS?

 

 

A. WELL, ACTUALLY, I DID NOT GO IN WITH A PERCEIVED

 

 

IDEA OF RECOMMENDING EXPERTS. WHAT HAPPENS IS,

 

 

WHEN I WOULD MAKE PRESENTATIONS FROM TIME TO TIME,

 

 

THE WAY IT NORMALLY WOULD OCCUR IS PEOPLE WOULD

 

 

SAY WHAT DO I PERCEIVE AS AN AREA; WHAT IS AN AREA

 

 

OF INTEREST; WHAT IS AN AREA OF UNKNOWN; WHAT IS

 

 

AN AREA OF A POTENTIAL PROBLEM; WHAT IS -- AND AS

 

 

I WOULD REVIEW DOCUMENTS, WHAT IS AN AREA -- IN

 

 

SOME CASES, WHO MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE. LIKE I

 

 

MENTIONED THE OTHER DAY, BMPIS, WHO MIGHT BE

 

 

APPROPRIATE. AND I THINK -- WHEN I TALKED TO

 

 

THEM, I SAID IT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION THAT

 

 

BMP'S WOULD BE LOOKED AT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. AND

 

 

THEY -- OF COURSE, THEN THEIR NEXT QUESTION IS, IF

 

 

THAT'S THE CASE, WHO WOULD DO THIS; AND I GAVE

 

 

A. THEM SOME NAMES. AND I WOULD QUITE OFTEN GIVE

 

 

THEM A LIST OF NAMES. AND THEY WOULD SELECT FROM

 

 

THAT LIST OF NAMES. QUITE OFTEN, THAT WAS A

 

 

VERBAL LIST. SOMETIMES IT WAS ONE NAME, SOMETIMES

 

 

IT WAS A LIST OF NAMES. BUT AFTER THEY WERE

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 255

 

 

 

 

SELECTED, SOMETIMES I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THEY HAD

 

 

SELECTED. IN FACT, SOME OF THESE, THIS IS THE

 

 

FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN ACTUALLY A FULL, COMPLETE

 

 

LIST.

 

 

Q. RIGHT. HAS THIS BEEN SORT OF AN ITERATIVE PROCESS

 

 

SINCE 1988, 1989, WHERE YOU HAVE REVIEWED

 

 

DOCUMENTS AND MADE RECOMMENDATIONS OVER TIME?

 

 

A. NO. IN THE BEGINNING, AS I SAID, WHEN WE STARTED

 

 

THIS, I DON'T -- I DON'T BELIEVE THE CASE HAD EVEN

 

 

BEEN FILED.

 

 

Q. WELL, IT WAS FILED NOT TOO LONG AFTER---

 

 

A. NOT TOO LONG AFTER THAT.

 

 

Q. --- YOUR EARLY DISCUSSIONS WITH MR. WEDGWORTH.

 

 

A. BUT EARLY ON, I DID NOT -- I THINK, AS I SAID

 

 

BEFORE, WHAT HAPPENED IN SOME OF THOSE EARLY

 

 

MEETINGS, IT BECAME CLEAR THAT I WAS NOT GOING TO

 

 

BE WORKING PRIMARILY AS A CONSULTANT ON THE

 

 

LITIGATION CASE. I WAS NOT DOING THE: -- AND THAT

 

 

WAS NOT MY ROLE, AND I HAD MY RESEARCH TO DO. I

 

 

HAD TOO MUCH TO DO AS IT WAS. SO, FROM TIME TO

 

 

TIME, I BASICALLY WOULD MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS, AS I

 

 

SAID, FROM THESE PRESENTATIONS. IT WASN'T -- IT

 

 

WASN'T A FORMALIZED PROCESS; THEY WERE MORE

 

 

SERENDIPITY.

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 256

 

 

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. WHEN DO YOU RECALL IS THE FIRST TIME

 

 

THAT YOU MADE THESE TYPES OF RECOMMENDATIONS, WHAT

 

 

YEAR?

 

 

A. PROBABLY -- IT MAY HAVE BEEN LATE f8@), '90,

 

 

SOMEWHERE IN THAT TIME FRAME. I CAN'T SAY ONE

 

 

MONTH OR ANOTHER. IT'S HARD TO SAY. AS I SAID,

 

 

THERE WAS NO FORMAL -- THERE WAS NO FORMAL, YOU

 

 

KNOW, THERE WAS NO FORMAL MEETING.

 

 

Q. YOU DIDN'T MEET TWICE A YEAR TO GO THROUGH THIS

 

 

PROCESS---

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. --- IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

 

 

A. NO. I WOULD MEET WITH EQC, OR I WOULD MEET

 

 

WITH -- PRESENTATIONS THAT I WOULD MAKE, AND

 

 

THEN SOMEONE WOULD ASK, BY THE WAY, WHAT DO YOU

 

 

THINK ABOUT THIS, OR, OH, WE HADN'T REALIZED

 

 

ABOUT THAT.

 

 

Q. DID THE EQC AND/OR ANY OF THESE OTHER COMMITTEES

 

 

MEET MAYBE ONCE A YEAR, AT LEAST?

 

 

A. OH, I THINK THEY MEET SEVERAL -- WELL,, I THINK

 

 

THEY MEET -- I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT SURE HOW OFTEN

 

 

THEY MEET. THEY MAYBE MEET ONCE A MONTH, ONCE

 

 

EVERY OTHER MONTH, I'M NOT SURE. BUT I DID NOT

 

 

ATTEND VERY MANY OF THOSE MEETINGS. I WOULD ONLY

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 257

 

 

 

 

BE ASKED TO ATTEND -- MAKE A PRESENTATION MAYBE

 

 

TWICE A YEAR. IT COULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE MORE.

IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THAT MUCH. I CAN'T REMEMBER

 

 

THE -- I DIDN'T REALLY KEEP A CLOSE PRACK.

 

 

USUALLY I'D BE IN THE FIELD WORKING AND THEY WOULD

SAY, COULD YOU COME BY ON THURSDAY AFTERNOON, AND

 

 

THEY WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, A MEETING GOING ON, AND

 

 

THEN I WOULD SIT IN THE HALLWAY UNTIL THEY

 

 

FINISHED THEIR MEETING, AND THEN I WOULD COME FOR

 

 

MY HOUR OR WHATEVER THE PRESENTATION---

 

 

Q. SURE. SURE.

 

 

A. --- AND THEN THEY WOULD ASK ME TO LEAVE AGAIN,

 

 

SINCE THEY WERE DISCUSSING.

 

 

Q. SURE. AND WHO WOULD NORMALLY ATTEND THE EQC

 

 

MEETINGS?

 

 

A. THE EQC BOARD, OR WHATEVER THEY CALL IT.

 

 

Q. BUT WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

 

 

A. ED BARBER; BOB BUKER; GEORGE WEDGWORTH, IN THE

 

 

BEGINNING; FANJUL---

 

 

Q. WHICH ONE?

 

 

A. ALEX. SOME PEOPLE -- BILL TARR; PHII, PARSONS;

 

 

OCCASIONALLY BILL EARL. THERE ARE OTHER

 

 

REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE LEAGUE, SOME OF THE

 

 

SMALLER GROWERS, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER ALL THE---

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 258

 

 

 

 

Q. MR. STEIN, FRITZ STEIN?

 

 

A. HE MAY HAVE BEEN AT SOME OF THE EARLY MEETINGS.

 

 

I HAVE NOT SEEN HIM AT ANY RECENT MEETINGS THAT I

 

 

HAVE BEEN TO, AND I HAVEN'T BEEN TO ANY OF THOSE

 

 

MEETINGS IN, GOSH, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN.

 

 

Q. MR. BEARDSLEY?

 

 

A. MR. BEARDSLEY.

 

 

Q. RIGHT.

 

 

A. I DON'T KNOW MR. BEARDSLEY.

 

 

Q. MR. HUNDLEY?

 

 

A. HUNDLEY. THE NAME SOUNDS FAMILIAR, BUT I DON'T

 

 

KNOW. THERE ARE SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS WHO SIT ON

 

 

THAT COMMITTEE WHO SAY ALMOST NOTHING. SO, I

 

 

DON'T---

 

 

Q. MR. SCHLECHTER?

 

 

A. THAT NAME -- I MEAN, THAT NAME DOESN'T RING A

 

 

BELL, BUT---

 

 

Q. OKAY. WHAT DOES EQC STAND FOR?

 

 

A. I BELIEVE IT'S THEIR ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY

 

 

CONTROL, OR ENVIRONMENTAL SOMETHING LIKE

 

 

THAT.

 

 

Q. COMMITTEE?

 

 

A. COMMITTEE.

 

 

Q. AND WHAT'S THE PURPOSE?

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 259

 

 

 

 

A. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE PURPOSE OF THAT

 

 

MEETING IS -- AS IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME BY GEORGE

 

 

WEDGWORTH, WHICH I BELIEVE HE FOUNDED IT -- WAS TO

 

 

MEET WITH THE PRINCIPALS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES

 

 

TO TRY TO PREDETERMINE PENDING ENVIRONMENTAL AREAS

 

 

OF CONCERN; TO TRY TO COME UP WITH THE

 

 

RECOMMENDATIONS; TO TRY TO GATHER INFORMATION SO

 

 

THAT THEY MAY BE ABLE TO RECTIFY PROBLEMS THAT MAY

 

 

OCCUR. I WAS TOLD, FOR EXAMPLE, THAI' SOME OF THE

 

 

EARLY WORK THEY HAD WORKED ON WAS AIR QUALITY IN

 

 

ONE OF THE AREAS. I'VE NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN THAT,

 

 

BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY -- APPARENTLY ONE OF THE

 

 

FIRST PROJECTS THEY WORKED ON.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. DID MR. GREEN EVER ATTEND ANY OF

 

 

THESE MEETINGS, OR LAWYERS ATTEND ANY OF THESE

 

 

MEETINGS?

 

 

A. WELL, I THINK I SAID BILL EARL WAS AT---

 

 

Q. RIGHT.

 

 

A. --- SOME OF THESE MEETINGS.

 

 

Q. RIGHT.

 

 

A. RICK BURGESS WAS AT SOME OF THESE MEETINGS.

 

 

BILL TARR.

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. I DON'T REMEMBER IF BILL GREEN ATTENDED. HE MAY

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 260

 

 

 

 

HAVE ATTENDED ONE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER IF HE DID

 

 

OR NOT. AS YOU KNOW, THE CO-OP IS NOT A MEMBER OF

 

 

THE LEAGUE AT THE MOMENT, SO HE MAY NOT BE INVITED

 

 

TO THOSE MEETINGS. I'M NOT PRIVY TO WHO GETS

 

 

INVITED AND WHO DOESNFT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. SO, YOU SAY YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE EQC

 

 

WAS TO PREDETERMINE -- WHAT -- ENVIRONMENTAL

 

 

ISSUES OR THE -- NOW, THIS IS THE LEAGUE, THE

 

 

FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE---

 

 

A. THAT'S CORRECT.

 

 

Q. --- IT'S A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE FLORIDA SUGAR CANE

 

 

LEAGUE?

 

 

A. RIGHT. THAT'S CORRECT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. GATHER INFORMATION, RECTIFY PROBLEMS.

 

 

WHAT -- IF IT WAS AN INFORMATION GATHERING,

 

 

PROBLEM RECTIFYING, FACT-FINDING COMMITTEE, WHY

 

 

THIS BUSINESS OF SEPARATING OUT WHO COULD ATTEND

 

 

THE MEETING; ONE PERSON COULD COME III AT A TIME;

 

 

HOW DID THAT COME TO BE?

 

 

A. WELL, I'M, AGAIN, NOT PRIVY TO ALL OF THAT, BUT IT

 

 

IS MY UNDERSTANDING -- I WAS TOLD NOT TO BE

 

 

INSULTED, THAT MANY PEOPLE WERE ASKED TO LEAVE THE

 

 

ROOM AT VARIOUS TIMES. AND PART OF THAT HAD TO

 

 

DO, I THINK, WHEN INDIVIDUAL CONSULTANTS WERE

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 261

 

 

 

 

BEING -- WERE PRESENTING INFORMATION. PART OF IT

 

 

HAD TO DO WHEN THEY WOULD GO INTO, I THINK, SOME

 

 

EXECUTIVE SESSION ON FUNDING, WHICH MOST

 

 

ORGANIZATIONS DO. I BELIEVE---

 

 

Q. THE EQC HAD FUNDING RESPONSIBILITIES?

 

 

A. WELL, I THINK THEY HAVE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR

 

 

NOT THEY WILL FUND. THEY GET REVIEWS ON

 

 

MATERIALS, PROPOSALS, AND I THINK THEY HAVE TO

 

 

MAKE INTERNAL DECISIONS, LIKE ANY ORGANIZATION,

 

 

AND I BELIEVE WHEN THEY MAKE THOSE DECISIONS,

 

 

THEY DO THAT -- AS I SAID, I'VE NEVER BEEN IN

 

 

THERE WHEN THEY'VE DONE THAT, BUT I'VE BEEN TOLD

 

 

THAT AS AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THEY BASICALLY DO

 

 

THAT.

 

 

Q. RIGHT. IS IT THE EQC THAT FUNDS THE DUKE WETLAND

 

 

CENTER, WHEN THEY WERE FIRST FUNDED? WHEN THEY

 

 

DID---

 

 

A. WELL, THE LEAGUE---

 

 

Q. --- THEIR FIRST---

 

 

A. --- THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE---

 

 

Q. RIGHT.

 

 

A. --- FUNDED IT.

 

 

Q. BUT WAS IT THE EQC THAT WOULD APPROVE YOUR FIRST

 

 

PROPOSAL, AND FUND---

 

 

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME I PAGE 262

 

 

 

 

A. I BELIEVE SO.

 

 

Q. --- YOUR FIRST YEAR'S WORK?

 

 

A. I BELIEVE SO. THE PILOT PROJECT, I BELIEVE---

 

 

Q. THE PILOT PROJECT, OKAY.

 

 

A. --- WOULD HAVE BEEN PRESENTED THROUGH THE EQC

 

 

COMMITTEE.

 

 

Q. OKAY. DID YOU PRESENT IT TO THE EQC, AS YOU

 

 

RECALL?

 

 

A. YES, I -- WELL, AS I TOLD YOU, I MADE: AN ORAL

 

 

PRESENTATION IN MY FIRST MEETING WITH SEVERAL

 

 

MEMBERS, AND THEN -- THAT'S SO LONG AGO, I'M

 

 

TRYING TO REMEMBER. I THINK I MADE A FORMAL ORAL

 

 

PRESENTATION, AND, OF COURSE, A WRITTEN -- THEY

 

 

HAD WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. I HAD ASKED YOU TO BRING ME THAT FIRST

 

 

PROPOSAL. WERE YOU ABLE TO LOCATE ONE,

 

 

DR. RICHARDSON?

 

 

A. I WAS BARELY ABLE TO GET MY CV. I HAVE LISA

 

 

LOOKING TO FIND IT.

 

 

Q. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND

 

 

JANE RAIKES, ARE WE STILL TRACKING THAT ONE

 

 

DOWN?

 

 

A. I AM