DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1634 (THEREUPON, A BREAK WAS TAKEN FROM 11:53 A.M. TO 1:30 P.M.) EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. DR. RICHARDSON, YESTERDAY WE HAD A COUPLE THINGS THAT YOU WERE GOING TO TRY TO RESEARCH FOR ME, ONE OF WHICH WAS SOME OF THE HISTORY OF THESE THREE NEW CORES THAT SOMEBODY CONNECTED WITH DUKE DID. DID YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE A CHANCE TO CHECK THAT? A. I DID. I WENT BACK AND HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH DR. CRAFT. Q. CAN YOU GIVE ME THE STATUS OR SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THOSE CORES? A. RIGHT. I WAS A LITTLE BIT IN ERROR YESTERDAY AS TO THE EXACT TIMES. AS YOU REMEMBER, I COULDN'T QUITE REMEMBER. BUT DR. CRAFT -- AS I TOLD YOU EARLIER, WE HAD HAD THIS CONVERSATION, AND HE -- HE THOUGHT THAT WE HAD TURNED THESE OVER AT MY LAST DEPOSITION, BECAUSE THEY WERE IN THIS FILE THAT WAS STAMPED. I THINK IT -- IN FACT, HAD A MARKER ON THE FOLDER. BUT WHEN WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THE DATES, HE -- HE DOESN'T KNOW WHETHER WE TURNED OVER THE FINAL ANALYSIS. WHAT HE DOES KNOW IS -- HE DOESN'T KNOW -- HE THINKS WE TURNED OVER SOME OF THE PRELIMINARY INFORMATION. OKAY, THAT -- SO, I CAN'T ATTEST TO DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1635 WHETHER WE GAVE YOU THE FINAL NUMBERS AT DEPOSITION, AND I DON'T THINK WE DID -- WELL, I KNOW WE DIDN'T, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE THE DATES ON THOSE CORES -- WHEN HE PRINTS THEM OUT, THEY HAVE A DATE AT THE TOP, AND THEY -- THEY WERE, I -- I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY, BUT IT WAS LIKE FEBRUARY 28TH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON IT. AND I WOULD NOT -- THAT WAS WHEN HE COMPLETED THEM, AND I WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN THEM UNTIL MARCH, SOMETIME IN MARCH OF THAT -- I DON'T REMEMBER--- Q. WHEN WERE THE CORES ACTUALLY TAKEN, DO YOU KNOW? A. NO, I DID NOT ASK HIM THAT. THEY WERE TAKEN -- LET'S SEE, THAT WOULD BE FEBRUARY OF '93. THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN THE SUMMER, SOMETIME -- THE SUMMER, MAYBE LATE FALL, OF '93, I THINK, WOULD BE MY BEST ESTIMATE. I HAVE TO GO BACK AND -- I DON'T REMEMBER -- IT DOESN'T SAY ON THE PRINTOUT WHEN THE ANALYSIS DONE, IT'S WHEN THEY WERE ACTUALLY TAKEN. MR. GREEN: WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT LAST ANSWER? MR. REID: YOU MEAN 1992? YOU SAID '93, BUT YOU MEANT '92, I ASSUME. WITNESS: '92. I'M -- YES. I'M SORRY. Q. (BY MR. REID) SO, THEY WERE TAKEN IN THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1636 SUMMER TO LATE FALL OF '92. NOW, WHAT HAPPENED IN FEBRUARY OF '93? A. THAT'S WHEN HE COMPLETED THE ANALYSIS TO ACTUALLY HAVE A -- THAT'S WHAT IT SHOWS ON THE EXCELL PRINTOUT SHEET. THAT'S WHEN THE -- THE FINAL CALCULATIONS, ALL THIS STUFF WAS DONE, I THINK IT WAS LITERALLY THE LAST DAY OF FEBRUARY '93, WAS WHEN THEY WERE DONE. AND I DID NOT GET THEM IMMEDIATELY, MY RECOLLECTION IS. AND THAT'S HIS, TOO, THAT HE FINISHED THEM -- WELL, AMONG OTHER CORES -- HE'S BEEN WORKING ON ALL KINDS OF THINGS -- THESE WERE JUST MORE CORES THAT WE TOOK. AND THAT I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THEM, OBVIOUSLY, SOMETIME IN MARCH OF '93, SO THAT WOULD BE AFTER MY DEPOSITION, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS IN JANUARY OF '93. Q. OKAY. THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE YOU WERE GOING TO CHECK ON FOR ME. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THAT WAS? A. NO. Q. IT WILL COME BACK TO ME IN A MINUTE. A. DOCUMENTS, I WENT -- I ACTUALLY WENT BACK TO THE CENTER, AND I GOT SOME -- WE DON'T HAVE MANY OF THE -- WE'VE GIVEN OUT FOUR HUNDRED OF THESE REPORTS. IN FACT, I ONLY HAVE ONE COPY OF THE -- A LOT OF THE '91'S -- I ONLY HAVE ONE OF THE '92, SO. Q. WOULD THE -- ANY OF THE DATA RELATING TO THESE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1637 THREE NEW CORES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN WHAT WAS PRODUCED FOR THIS DEPOSITION? A. YES, I TURNED -- I TURNED--- Q. AND WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE? HOW WOULD I FIND IT TO IDENTIFY THAT IT WOULD BE THESE THREE CORES? A. I THINK THEY'RE EXCELL -- EXCELL SHEETS, AND AS I WAS MENTIONING THE OTHER DAY, I BELIEVE IT SAYS ON THEM A1/2, D1/2 AND C1/2. Q. OKAY. OKAY. A. THAT'S MY RECOLLECTION. Q. WELL, I'LL LOOK AND SEE IF I CAN FIND THEM. YESTERDAY YOU TOLD ME THAT AT ONE OF THE MEETINGS YOU'D HAD WITH THE LAWYERS, YOU WERE ASKED TO COLLECT YOUR THOUGHTS AND BEGIN PUTTING TOGETHER SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A. UH-HUH (YES)--- Q. ALL RIGHT. A. ---YES. Q. NOW, HAVE YOU DONE THAT? A. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT WE'D BEEN DOING THIS MORNING. THAT'S WHAT--- Q. SO, WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TELLING ME IS THE PRODUCT OF THAT EXERCISE? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1638 A. WELL, I WASN'T GIVEN ANY SPECIFIC DIRECTIONS EXCEPT TO ESSENTIALLY TAKE -- TAKE MY PARTICULAR RESEARCH WHERE IT WAS AT THE STAGE AND WHAT I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON AND TRY TO PULL TOGETHER SOME THOUGHTS THAT WERE APPROPRIATE AS IT RELATES TO THE SWIM CHALLENGE. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS THAT YOU HAVEN'T DISCLOSED TO ME AT THIS POINT, IN THE FORM OF OPINIONS OR OTHERWISE? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. ANY ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS. PROBABLY LOTS OF THOUGHTS. Q. AS PART OF THIS PROCESS THAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH. A. WELL, I GUESS ONE OF THE THOUGHTS THAT I HAVE RELATED TO THE EVERGLADES ITSELF RELATES TO THE CURRENT STATUS AND HEALTH OF THE EVERGLADES. Q. OKAY. TELL ME WHAT OPINIONS YOU HAVE ABOUT THE CURRENT STATUS AND HEALTH OF THE EVERGLADES. A. WELL, JUST SO WE -- WE'RE CLARIFYING -- AND I THINK WE TOUCHED A LITTLE BIT OF IT THIS MORNING AND SOME OF THE ASPECTS. AS I SAID, IT'S -- IT'S A -- IT'S AN ALTERED WETLAND ECOSYSTEM THAT IS MANAGED -- THE WATER -- WHOSE WATER MANAGEMENT REGIME IS NOT MANAGED TO OPTIMIZE WETLAND FUNCTIONS. IT'S BASICALLY -- THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1639 SYSTEM WAS PUT IN PLACE, I REALIZE, BY LAW FOR OTHER PURPOSES. AND, SO, IT'S A STRESSED ECOSYSTEM THAT HAS HAD ITS HYDROLOGY, HYDROPERIOD, QUANTITY OF WATER SERIOUSLY ALTERED, AND HAS REACHED SORT OF A NEW BASELINE FROM WHAT IT ONCE WAS; ALBEIT, IT IS STILL FUNCTIONING AS AN EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM; THERE ARE LARGE PORTIONS OF IT STILL FUNCTIONING AS AN EVERGLADES AND, IN MY OPINION, WILL CONTINUE TO FUNCTION AS AN EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM, ALBEIT AT A DIFFERENT BASELINE OR -- OR, OBVIOUSLY, DIFFERENT THAN IT DID SORT OF IN PRE-DISTURBANCE TIMES. SO, WE HAVE AN ECOSYSTEM THAT IS A WETLAND ECOSYSTEM WITH A DRASTICALLY REDUCED HYDROPERIOD. BUT ALBEIT THAT, SINCE A NUMBER OF THE SPECIES, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM, ARE ABLE TO MAINTAIN NORMAL -- WITHIN THE BOUNDS -- SOME NORMALCY OF A WETLAND FUNCTION, ALBEIT THEY'VE BEEN STRESSED AMAZINGLY HARD DUE TO EXTREME DRY PERIODS AND EXTREME WET PERIODS. BUT I WOULD SAY THAT UNDER THE PRESENT CONDITIONS AS THERE, IT IS GOING TO EXIST. I HEAR STATEMENTS THAT THE EVERGLADES IS GOING TO CEASE TO EXIST IN FIVE YEARS OR TEN YEARS. AND I'VE HEARD THIS -- EVERYTHING FROM DAN RATHER'S SHOW, TO A NUMBER OF ENVIRONMENTALISTS, TO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE. AND IT'S MY OPINION, AS A WETLANDS ECOLOGIST, THAT THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1640 EVERGLADES WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST LONG AFTER WE'RE DEAD AND GONE AND THAT WE HAVE SOME TIME TO, BASICALLY, SOLVE THIS PROBLEM CORRECTLY. Q. WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER MAKES UP THE -- WHAT YOU CALL THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM? A. WHAT MAKES UP THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM? Q. YEAH. A. ARE YOU ASKING ECOLOGICALLY, OR--- Q. AS AN ECOLOGIST, YEAH. A. WELL, WHAT THE -- THE REMAINING PORTIONS OF THE EVERGLADES -- THERE'S THE EVERGLADES PARK, WATER CONSERVATION AREA 3, WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2, WATER CONSERVATION AREA 1. Q. I MEANT WHAT COMPONENTS MAKE UP THE -- WHAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER TO BE PART OF THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM. A. WHAT COMPONENTS? MR. BURGESS: OBJECTION TO FORM. Q. WELL, LIKE THE SOILS; YOU'D CONSIDER THAT PART OF THE ECOSYSTEM? A. I WOULD CONSIDER SOILS PART OF THE ECOSYSTEM. Q. THE WATER? A. I WOULD CONSIDER THE WATER. Q. THE VARIOUS TROPHIC LEVELS THAT EXIST? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1641 A. THE TROPHIC LEVELS, THE SPEC -- THE PLANTS AND ANIMALS THAT EXIST. Q. WOULD YOU CONSIDER THE MACROINVERTEBRATES PART--- A. I WOULD CONSIDER THE MACROINVERTEBRATES. Q. ---OF THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM? A. I WOULD. Q. AND THE PERIPHYTON? A. I WOULD. Q. ALGAL MATS AND OTHER ALGAL COMMUNITIES? A. YES, ALBEIT THEY'RE NOT -- THEY'RE NOT IDENTICAL FROM STEM TO STERN. IN OTHER WORDS, THERE ARE VARIATIONS IN THAT--- Q. SURE. A. ---FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH, BUT TO THE DEGREE THAT THEY VARY WITHIN THAT SYSTEM, YES, THEY'RE INTEGRAL PARTS OF THAT SYSTEM. Q. YOU SAID THAT THE EVERGLADES SYSTEM WAS STRESSED HYDROLOGICALLY. A. YES. Q. IS IT STRESSED IN ANY OTHER MANNER? A. WELL, IT'S STRESSED -- IT HAS BEEN STRESSED. I MEAN, THAT'S -- THE EVERGLADES IS -- IS, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, ONE OF THE MOST STRESSFUL DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1642 ENVIRONMENTS FOR ORGANISMS TO HAVE EVOLVED IN. FOR EXAMPLE, THE TEMPERATURES IN THE SUMMERTIME GO UP TO FORTY DEGREES CENTIGRADE IN THE WATER; THERE'S VERY LOW OXYGEN CONCENTRATION AT CERTAIN TIMES OF THE DAY IN THE WATER COLUMNS UNDER NATURAL CONDITIONS; AMAZING AMOUNTS OF FIRE; THERE ARE DROUGHT CONDITIONS; EXTREME HEAT. SO, WHILE ALL ECOSYSTEMS ARE STRESSED, THE EVERGLADES HAS BEEN -- HAS EVOLVED AS A SYSTEM THAT IS QUITE STRESSED; AND ON TOP OF THAT, WE OVERLAY -- NOW, WE GET TO THOSE SORT OF MAN-INDUCED STRESSORS. WE HAVE -- I THINK I PUT TOGETHER IN MY REPORT, SORT OF A SIX-PART MODEL THAT BASICALLY DESCRIBES THE COMPONENTS THAT CONTROL THE ECOLOGY OF THE EVERGLADES. Q. IT'S STRESSED BY HYDROPERIOD; I THINK YOU SAID "DRASTICALLY REDUCED HYDROPERIOD"? A. IN SOME PLACES, REDUCED; IN SOME PLACES, ELEVATED; IN SOME PLACES, THE QUANTITY OF WATER; IN SOME PLACES, THE PULSING OF WATER; SOME PLACES, THE FUNNELING OF WATER. ALL OF THOSE. Q. OKAY. AND, NOW, THE ONE THING YOU HAVEN'T MENTIONED IS NUTRIENTS. IS IT STRESSED BY NUTRIENTS? A. IN SOME PLACES, IT IS STRESSED BY NUTRIENTS. Q. WHERE? A. AND I -- I WILL REPHRASE THAT IN ONE SENSE. I DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1643 DON'T CONSIDER ALL NUTRIENTS TO BE STRESSFUL, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT SOME OF THE SODIUM ADDITIONS TO THE NORTHERN END OF 2A, WHICH ARE ELEVATED, MAY CAUSE A STRESS ON SOME SPECIES. Q. WELL, LET'S LIMIT IT TO PHOSPHOROUS. IS IT STRESSED BY PHOSPHOROUS? A. I DON'T WANT TO USE THE TERM "STRESSED BY PHOSPHOROUS." PHOSPHOROUS IS -- IS NOT A -- THE LEVELS I SEE, I DON'T SEE AS STRESSED. Q. WELL, THEN, A MINUTE AGO WHEN YOU SAID IT IS STRESSED BY NUTRIENTS IN SOME PLACES, WHAT NUTRIENTS ARE STRESSING IT? A. WELL, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT MAYBE AS ESSENTIAL AN ISSUE, AS I MENTIONED, SODIUM COULD BE A POSSIBILITY. Q. SODIUM IS STRESSING THE EVERGLADES? A. IN--- Q. WHERE? A. ---SOME PLACES, IT COULD--- Q. WHERE? A. IN 2A -- THE NORTHERN PART OF 2A, THERE'S ELEVATED SODIUM LEVELS THAT WE SEE. Q. WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF THIS ELEVATION OR STRESS CAUSED BY SODIUM LEVELS? A. WELL, IT COULD BE THE REMOVAL OR WEAKENING OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1644 SOME OF THE SPECIES MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE UNDER HIGHER SODIUM LEVELS. Q. CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES? A. WELL, I THINK SOME SPECIES OR SOME -- OR, I THINK SOME OF THE ECO TYPES OF SAWGRASS THAT EXIST THERE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND HIGH SODIUM LEVELS. SOME OF THE ALGAL SPECIES MAY BE AFFECTED BY THIS, AND SOME OF THE MACROPHYTES. IT'S A POSSIBILITY SOME OF THE -- ESPECIALLY SOME OF THE FLOATING AQUATICS WOULD BE AFFECTED BY SODIUM, FOR EXAMPLE. Q. SOME OF THE WHAT? A. FLOATING AQUATICS. Q. AND THIS WOULD ALL BE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF 2A? A. WELL, THAT'S THE ONE PLACE THAT I'VE STUDIED IN GREAT DETAIL, BUT I SEE WHAT'S COMING THROUGH THE GATES AND CANALS THERE. THERE ARE MANY OTHER THINGS BESIDES PHOSPHOROUS; THAT'S MY POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE. Q. WELL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SODIUM RIGHT NOW. A. I KNOW. BUT, AS I SAY, THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER THINGS BESIDES PHOSPHOROUS. THERE ARE SODIUM AND CALCIUM AND CHLORIDES AND SULFATES--- Q. WELL, LET'S -- LET'S JUST LIMIT IT TO SODIUM, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1645 AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT THOSE OTHERS IN TURN. ANY OTHER EFFECTS OR IMPACTS OF THE STRESS CAUSED BY SODIUM TO THE NORTHERN PORTION OF 2A IN THE EVERGLADES? A. WELL, SODIUM -- HIGHER CONCENTRATIONS OF SODIUM CAN CAUSE SOIL STRUCTURE TO DECREASE. IN TERMS OF THE STRUCTURE OF THE SOIL, THE POSITIVE IONS IN THE SOIL CAN CAUSE THE SOIL TO -- WHEN WE HAVE POSITIVE CHARGES, LARGE NUMBERS OF POSITIVE CHARGES BOUND TO PARTICLES, THEY HAVE A TENDENCY TO REPEL EACH OTHER, WHICH CREATES A VERY UNSTRUCTURED SOIL BY COMPARISON. Q. THAT'S HAPPENING IN THE NORTHERN PART OF 2A? A. THERE ARE PARTS OF IT WHERE THE SOILS ARE VERY -- THEY ARE LOOSER THAN SOME OF THE OTHER SOILS YOU SEE WHICH MAY BE THE CASE. Q. AND WHAT'S THE PRACTICAL EFFECT OF THIS STRESS? A. WELL, IT DOESN'T -- FOR EXAMPLE, IN THIS CASE, IF IT'S PEAT, IT DOESN'T MAKE A STRUCTURE TO PEAT AS YOU MIGHT HAVE; BUT THE MAJOR EFFECT MAY BE THAT THE ROOTS OF CERTAIN SPECIES ARE EXPOSED TO HIGHER SODIUM LEVELS THAN NORMAL. Q. OKAY. WHAT IS THE NEXT NUTRIENT THAT YOU HAD IN MIND WHEN YOU SAID THAT SOME PLACES IN THE EVERGLADES ARE STRESSED BY NUTRIENTS? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1646 A. WELL, I SAY STRESSED OR ALTERED, I MEAN--- Q. WELL, DO YOU CONSIDER THOSE TWO TO BE THE SAME THING? A. NOT QUITE. Q. OKAY. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT STRESS. A. STRESSED -- THERE ARE SOME -- I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT MY REPORT, BUT I THINK THERE ARE SOME METALS AND THINGS THAT ARE -- THAT ARE FOUND IN THE SOILS IN THE GLADES. Q. ANY PARTICULAR METALS? A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND -- THERE MAY BE SOME TRACE ELEMENTS AND--- Q. OF WHAT? A. I'M TRYING TO THINK -- JUST GIVE ME A MINUTE. Q. OH, I'M SORRY. A. WELL, THERE ARE THINGS LIKE SULPHATE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT -- THAT ARE PLACED THROUGH SOME OF THOSE GATES, WHICH ARE -- WHICH ARE AT ELEVATED LEVELS. Q. AND IS THIS, AGAIN, IN THE NORTHERN PART OF 2A? A. CORRECT. Q. DOES THIS AREA OF NUTRIENT STRESS EXTEND TO AN IDENTIFIABLE POINT IN 2A? A. YES, FOR THE SODIUM, I CAN SAY THAT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1647 Q. AND TO WHERE -- TO WHAT POINT DOES THE SODIUM STRESS EXIST? A. IT -- MY RECOLLECTION IS IT COMES DOWN TO -- I'D HAVE TO DO IT POINT BY POINT, BUT WE -- WE ACTUALLY MENTION THAT IN THE LAST ARTICLE THAT DR. CRAFT AND I WROTE. I'D HAVE TO JUST BE GUESSING UNLESS I LOOKED AT THAT, BUT I THINK IT'S FOUR TO FIVE KILOMETERS, SOMEWHERE IN THAT REGION. Q. THAT WOULD BE THE SODIUM? A. YEAH. IT CLOSELY -- CLOSELY MATCHES THE CATTAIL ZONE, THE MAJORITY OF THE CATTAIL ZONE. Q. OKAY. YOU SAID YOU FOUND -- WE WERE TALKING ABOUT METALS, AND YOU SAID IN SOIL THERE WAS -- THERE WERE SULFATES THAT YOU BELIEVE WERE STRESSING THE NORTHERN PART OF 2A? A. OR I SAID ALTERING. YOU KNOW, THEY ARE TWO DIFF--- Q. WELL, NO, YOU SAID STRESSING, AND, THEN, YOU SAID STRESSING OR ALTERING, AND THEN YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T THINK THOSE TWO MEANT THE SAME THING. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY STRESS? WE'LL CLEAR IT UP. A. STRESS CAN RESULT IN THE REDUCTION OF A NORMAL FUNCTION OF AN ORGANISM. IT CAN BE PRODUCTION, IT CAN BE REPRODUCTION, IT CAN BE SURVIVAL. IT DEPENDS -- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1648 THERE ARE VARIOUS TYPES OF STRESSES. REDUCED PHYSIOLOGICAL FUNCTION. Q. AND WHAT IS ALTERED? A. WELL, ALTERED IS A TERM THAT COULD BE USED AS SIMPLY CHANGE THE PATTERNS OF OR THE RATES BUT MAY NOT RESULT IN -- THEY COULD BE UP OR DOWN. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY COULD BE INCREASED. CERTAIN ASPECTS COULD BE INCREASED. Q. OKAY. NOW, THE METALS. WE WERE -- JUST TO REMIND YOU, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE VARIOUS NUTRIENTS THAT YOU BELIEVE ARE STRESSING THE EVERGLADES. A. WELL, I -- AS A GENERAL RULE, I WOULDN'T SAY NUTRIENTS ARE STRESSING. AS I MENTIONED TO YOU, SODIUM IS NOT REALLY A -- IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AS SORT OF A MINOR NUTRIENT. IT'S NOT A MAJOR NUTRIENT, LIKE NITROGEN AND PHOSPHOROUS AND POTASSIUM AND CALCIUM. SODIUM -- LESSER AMOUNTS OF A NUTRIENTS AREA. I'M TRYING TO BE CLEAR HERE SO YOU'LL--- Q. LET ME -- LET ME ASK--- A. ---MAYBE IF I SAY OTHER IONS, THAT WOULD BE CLEAR. Q. ---LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION. DO YOU BELIEVE -- STRIKE THAT. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. I'LL START -- I'LL GET IT RIGHT THIS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1649 TIME. YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER THAT THIS ECOSYSTEM WAS BEING STRESSED DUE TO A DRASTICALLY-REDUCED HYDROPERIOD, AND THEN YOU ALSO SAID, "AND SOME OTHER HYDROLOGICAL FACTORS." A. OR INCREASED HYDROPERIOD IN SOME PLACES, YES. Q. I THEN ASKED YOU WHAT OTHER THINGS ARE STRESSING, SUCH AS NUTRIENTS, AND YOU SAID THAT IT WAS BEING -- THE EVERGLADES WAS BEING STRESSED BY NUTRIENTS IN SOME PLACES; AND I ASKED, "WHAT NUTRIENTS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" AND YOU TOLD ME SODIUM. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND THEN YOU TOLD ME SOME METALS. SPECIFICALLY, YOU MENTIONED SULFATES. A. WELL, THEY -- THAT WOULDN'T BE A METAL. THAT WOULD BE AN ANION. Q. AND, SO, MY QUESTION NOW IS, WHAT OTHER NUTRIENTS DO YOU BELIEVE ARE STRESSING THE EVERGLADES AT ANY POINT, IF THERE ARE ANY? A. WELL, I'M TRYING TO THINK NOW WHAT I WOULD PUT INTO -- NOW THAT WE ARE CAREFULLY DEFINING THIS, WHAT DO I PUT INTO THAT. I WOULD SAY RIGHT NOW WITH THE EVIDENCE I HAVE -- I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE ANNUAL REPORT -- BUT I WOULD SAY SODIUM WOULD BE THE -- POTENTIALLY, ONE OF THE HIGHER STRESSORS OR THE MAJOR DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1650 STRESSOR THAT I HAVE INFORMATION ON AT THE MOMENT. Q. SO, IS IT FAIR TO SAY AS YOU SIT HERE RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN'T THINK OF ANY OTHER NUTRIENTS THAT ARE STRESSING THE EVERGLADES SYSTEM? A. ONLY IN THE SENSE THAT SOMETIMES THE LACK OF NUTRIENT CAN BE SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS A STRESS, IN A SENSE, OR A LIMITING NUTRIENT. Q. OKAY. WELL, LET'S -- WE'LL PUT -- WE'LL GET TO THAT NEXT, BUT I'M NOW TALKING ABOUT ANY NUTRIENTS THAT ARE COMING INTO THE SYSTEM WHICH YOU BELIEVE ARE CREATING STRESS, AS YOU DEFINED IT. CAN YOU THINK AS YOU SIT HERE OF ANY OTHER NUTRIENTS? A. THE POSSIBILITY THAT HIGH AMMONIA LEVELS--- Q. WHERE WOULD THAT BE? A. THERE ARE SOME -- SOME AMMONIA LEVELS THAT ARE QUITE HIGH IN -- IN THE NORTHERN PART OF 2A, THOUGH WE -- WE HAVE FAIRLY HIGH NITROGEN LEVELS THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE GLADES, BUT--- Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT'S BEING STRESSED BY THAT NITROGEN? A. I'M NOT SURE OF THAT. I HAVE NO -- I HAVEN'T REALLY -- I'M SAYING THAT THEY'RE EXTREMELY HIGH, THAT THERE COULD BE SOME ORGANISMS THAT COULD BE AFFECTED BY IT, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY DIRECT EVIDENCE OF THAT AT THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1651 MOMENT. Q. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER NUTRIENTS? A. I THINK THAT WOULD COVER IT. Q. OKAY. NOW, WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, OR WHAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SODIUM THAT IS COMING INTO THE EVERGLADES THROUGH THE CANALS? A. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. MR. REID: THAT'S WHY I ASKED IT. I ONLY ASK GOOD QUESTIONS. MR. GREEN: I'LL OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT. YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND ANSWER. MR. REID: I WAS GOING TO SAY -- I THOUGHT THERE'D BE -- CAN'T GET A RISE OUT OF THESE GUYS AFTER LUNCH. MR. GREEN: YOU JUST WANTED TO SEE IF I WAS AWAKE. MR. REID: THAT'S RIGHT. GO AHEAD. WITNESS: DEPENDS ON HOW HEAVY A LUNCH YOU HAD. MR. REID: YEAH. A. THE SODIUM -- AND WE LOOKED AT THE SODIUM AND SODIUM CHLORIDE -- PROBABLY THERE ARE SEVERAL POTENTIAL SOURCES. ONE COULD BE THE DEEP-CUT CANALS WHICH COULD BE SOME OF THE -- THE RESULT OF SOME OF THE ANCIENT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1652 MARINE SALTS, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD BE COMING UP THROUGH THAT -- THAT ZONE. Q. BY "CANALS," YOU MEAN THE CANALS THAT WERE PUT IN AS PART OF THE PROJECT? A. CORRECT. Q. AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE -- SOME OF THE -- FROM EARLY -- PREVIOUS ERAS--- A. RIGHT. THERE COULD BE SOME CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THAT. IN FACT, I BELIEVE THERE'S -- I'VE READ SOME EVIDENCE, IN FACT, THAT IS THE CASE FOR SOME OF THE -- I THINK I'VE SEEN SOME USGS REPORTS AND THAT THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE FOR THAT IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS. THERE COULD BE SOME -- WELL, THERE'S DEFINITELY SOME IN ALL THE WATER THAT'S MOVING THROUGH THE CANAL, SO--- Q. IS THERE ANY THAT YOU WOULD ATTRIBUTE TO FARMING? A. I HAVEN'T STUDIED THE FARM DIRECTLY IN TERMS OF THAT. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. Q. WELL, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT SODIUM WOULD COME FROM FARMING? A. I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE. Q. IN WHAT FORM WOULD THAT TAKE -- WHAT FORM WOULD THAT TAKE? A. SODIUM ION. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1653 Q. WOULD THAT BE PART OF FERTILIZER THAT WOULD BE ADDED TO THE CROPS, OR SOME OTHER SOURCE? A. I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD -- NO ONE WOULD -- NO ONE WOULD ADD SODIUM AS A FERTILIZER. THAT WOULD BE--- Q. NO, I MEANT WOULD IT BE A COMPONENT OF FERTILIZER, PERHAPS? A. I WOULDN'T THINK THEY WOULD USE THE SODIUM FORM OF FERTILIZER. THAT WOULDN'T REALLY MAKE--- Q. OKAY. SO, HOW WOULD -- HOW COULD IT POSSIBLY BE CONNECTED WITH AGRICULTURE, THEN? A. WELL, IF THERE WAS SOME NATIVE SODIUM IN THE SYSTEM ITSELF AND YOU HAD OXIDATION, THERE COULD BE SOME REMOVAL THERE, ALTHOUGH THE ORGANIC SOILS IN THE EAA -- SODIUM IS -- CAN BE BOUND TO THE ORGANIC MATTER. IF IT WAS HOOKED ON THAT, I GUESS IT COULD MOVE THROUGH THAT. IT COULD BE COMING FROM VIA THE LAKE. IT COULD BE -- IT COULD BE A NUMBER OF PLACES. I'M REALLY NOT QUALIFIED TO -- AT THIS STAGE, I HAVE NOT LOOKED AT THE WATER QUALITY DATA TO SAY. Q. WHERE WOULD THE SULFATES BE COMING FROM? A. WELL, YOU COULD HAVE -- ALSO, FROM THE MARINE WATER, YOU COULD HAVE SULFATES COMING -- YOU COULD HAVE SOME COMING FROM THE DEEPER DEPOSITS OF THAT. Q. HOW ABOUT AGRICULTURE? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1654 A. YOU COULD HAVE SOME COMING FROM AGRICULTURALLY. Q. SO, THE SOURCES COULD BE -- WOULD BE SOMEWHERE TO THE SODIUM SOURCES? A. CORRECT. I JUST HAVEN'T QUANTIFIED IT, SO I--- Q. WHAT ABOUT THE METALS; WHAT WOULD THE SOURCE BE OF THOSE? A. WELL, SOME OF THE METALS, I MEAN, IRON AND ALUMINUM AND MAGNESIUM AND CALCIUM AND SO FORTH, I THINK SOME OF THOSE WOULD BE IN THE RAINWATER, WOULD BE IN THE CANAL WATER, WOULD BE IN THE LAKE WATER, AND THERE WOULD BE SOME COMING OFF THE FARMLAND -- ESPECIALLY THE CALCIUM. I THINK THERE'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF CALCIUM THAT COMES OFF IN SOME OF THAT LAND. Q. NOW, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT PHOSPHOROUS IS STRESSING THE EVERGLADES? A. I WOULDN'T DEFINE IT AS A STRESS. Q. OKAY. SO, IT'S FAIR TO SAY, THEN, THAT YOU BELIEVE SODIUM IS HAVING MORE OF A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE EVERGLADES THAN PHOSPHOROUS? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. IN A LOCALIZED REGION WHERE WE SEE THAT, I SAID IT IS MORE LIKELY TO BE PUT IN THE STRESSOR DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1655 CATEGORY THAN IT WOULD PHOSPHOROUS. PHOSPHOROUS IS GENERALLY NOT CONSIDERED A STRESSOR TO ORGANISMS. Q. WELL, IF WE USE THE WORD -- THE DEFINITION THAT YOU GAVE US OF STRESS, THAT IT REDUCES THE FUNCTION OF AN ORGANISM, IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT PHOSPHOROUS WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED -- COULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A STRESSOR AT ANY LEVEL? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO FORM. A. AT ANY LEVEL; NO, I WOULDN'T SAY AT ANY LEVEL. THE POINT IS HARDLY ANYONE -- I'VE HARDLY EVER SEEN A STUDY WHERE -- OH, WELL, LET'S SEE, HOW DO I SAY THIS? I THINK THERE'S -- YOU KNOW, SCIENTIFICALLY, THERE'S ALWAYS SOME LEVEL BY WHICH YOU PUT SOMETHING ON THAT WILL EVENTUALLY, EVEN BY JUST THE SHEER WEIGHT ITSELF, WILL CAUSE SOME PROBLEMS BUT--- Q. WELL, LET'S LIMIT IT TO THE LEVELS THAT YOU'VE ACTUALLY FOUND OUT THERE IN THE EVERGLADES IN YOUR STUDIES, AT THE LEVELS AT WHICH YOU FOUND PHOSPHOROUS. A. WHERE? Q. IN 2A. A. IN 2A. Q. DO YOU CONSIDER -- USING YOUR DEFINITION OF STRESS, DO YOU CONSIDER THAT THAT PHOSPHOROUS IS STRESSING THE SYSTEM? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1656 A. IN TERMS OF OVERALL FUNCTIONING OF THAT SYSTEM, I WOULD SAY, FOR THE MOST PART, IT'S BEEN A SUBSIDY RATHER THAN A STRESS. Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY A SUBSIDY? A. WELL, IF YOU FOLLOW THE ODUM MODEL OF SUBSIDY STRESS, USUALLY FUNCTIONS GO DOWN WHEN THEY'RE STRESSED AND THEY GO UP WHEN THEY'RE SUBSIDIZED; AND SINCE THE EVERGLADES IS A REDUCED OR PHOSPHOROUS-LIMITED SYSTEM, WHEN YOU ADD SOMETHING THAT IS A NUTRIENT LIKE THAT, YOU GET AN INCREASE IN PRODUCTION, AN INCREASE IN GROWTH, AN INCREASE IN BIOMASS, AN INCREASE IN VOLUME. Q. YOU ARE ALSO, I TAKE IT, THEN, OPINE THAT SULFATES ARE A MORE SERIOUS PROBLEM IN 2A THAN IS PHOSPHOROUS? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID THAT. I SAID--- Q. NO--- A. ---THEY WERE SOMETHING THAT MAY BE COMING IN AT HIGHER LEVELS. Q. YEAH. THAT WAS ONE OF THE NUTRIENTS THAT YOU TOLD ME WAS STRESSING THE EVERGLADES. A. NO. I THINK -- I THINK I SAID IT COULD ALTER. I THINK I CHANGED IT. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IS PHOSPHOROUS ALTERING THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1657 EVERGLADES SYSTEM? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, AS I SAID, I THINK IT'S CAUSING -- IT'S A SUBSIDY, SO IT WOULD BE CAUSING SOME CHANGES IN THE SYSTEM IF YOU'RE -- IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT, IN TERMS OF INCREASES OF SOME ASPECTS OF THE EVERGLADES. Q. DO YOU THINK THESE ARE POSITIVE CHANGES? A. WELL, POSITIVE IS PROBABLY IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, BUT IT'S -- I CAN TELL YOU AS AN ECOLOGIST WHAT IT'S DOING. Q. IT IS POSITIVE IN THE EYES OF AN ECOLOGIST? A. WELL, IT'S INCREASING THE GROWTH OF SAWGRASS AND PLANT SPECIES. AND AT SOME LEVELS, IT IS -- AT SOME LEVELS, IT'S AN INCREASE IN WHAT IS THERE. IT WOULD BE A SUBSIDY. Q. SO, MY QUESTION IS -- YOU SAID THAT IT IS ALTERING THE SYSTEM. MY QUESTION IS, IS IT ALTERING IT IN A POSITIVE WAY OR IN A NEGATIVE WAY, AS AN ECOLOGIST? A. IT'S ALTERING IT, AS I SAID, FOR THE MOST PART, IN A POSITIVE WAY--- Q. OKAY. A. ---IT WOULD BE -- SUBSIDY WOULD BE A POSITIVE. Q. AND, ACCORDINGLY, THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1658 DECREASE THE INFLOW OF PHOSPHOROUS IF IT'S HAVING A POSITIVE EFFECT ON THE EVERGLADES, WOULD THERE? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID THAT, EITHER. Q. I'M ASKING YOU THAT QUESTION. DOES THAT FOLLOW FROM WHAT YOU JUST SAID? A. DOES -- DOES WHAT FOLLOW? Q. OKAY, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, YOU JUST TOLD ME THAT THE PHOSPHOROUS WAS ACTING AS A POSITIVE ON THE EVERGLADES, AND MY QUESTION IS, DOES IT THEN FOLLOW THAT YOU WOULD GIVE THE OPINION, SINCE IT'S ACTING AS A POSITIVE, THAT IT'S LEVEL SHOULD NOT BE REDUCED? A. I DON'T THINK THOSE ARE CONNECTED. I--- Q. WHY NOT? A. ---I THINK WHAT I SAID WAS THAT IN A LOCALIZED AREA, YOU ARE GETTING SOME INCREASES IN SOME FUNCTIONS. I DIDN'T SAY OVERALL THAT PHOSPHOROUS -- AS A RESULT OF THAT, YOU WOULD THEN THEREFORE SAY THAT PHOSPHOROUS SHOULD NOT BE REDUCED. Q. WELL, DON'T YOU GET THE SAME EFFECT OF PHOSPHOROUS? WHEREVER IT IS, YOU GET THE SAME EFFECT, DON'T YOU? A. NOT -- NOT EXACTLY, BUT YOU -- GENERALLY, YOU DO. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1659 Q. THE EXTENT OF IT MIGHT VARY, BUT IT'S THE SAME EFFECT. SO, GIVEN THAT IT'S THE SAME EFFECT, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT THE PHOSPHOROUS IS A POSITIVE--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. Q. ---IN ITS ALTERATION OF THE SYSTEM? MR. BURGESS: SAME OBJECTION. A. I THINK I SAID THAT I THOUGHT WHERE IT WAS ENTERING THE SYSTEM, BY AND LARGE, IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A SUBSIDY FOR MOST OF THE ORGANISMS THAT WERE THERE. Q. AND THEN MY NEXT QUESTION IS, DO YOU CONSIDER THAT TO BE A POSITIVE AS OPPOSED TO A NEGATIVE? A. I CONSIDER IT TO BE A SUBSIDY, NOT A STRESS. Q. WELL, HELP ME UNDERSTAND. IS A SUBSIDY GOOD AND A STRESS IS BAD? A. A SUBSIDY RESULTING IN INCREASE IN SOME OF THE FUNCTIONS. I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO SIMPLIFY IT DOWN TO JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE. I THINK THAT'S A BIT NAIVE AND SIMPLISTIC. Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SINCE IT IS ACTING AS A SUBSIDY, THERE'S ANY REASON TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHOROUS COMING IN? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1660 A. I THINK I SAID EARLIER TODAY THAT I THINK AFTER STUDYING THE EVERGLADES NOW FOR FIVE YEARS THAT I BELIEVE THAT PHOSPHOROUS SHOULD BE REDUCED GOING INTO THE EVERGLADES. Q. OKAY. AND HOW DOES THAT SQUARE WITH YOUR SAYING THAT IT'S A SUBSIDY AND NOT A STRESSOR? WHY SHOULD IT BE REDUCED IF IT'S A SUBSIDY AND NOT A STRESSOR, I GUESS IS MY QUESTION? A. WHY SHOULD IT BE REDUCED? Q. YEAH, IF IT'S A--- A. WELL, I THINK--- Q. ---SUBSIDY AND NOT A STRESSOR. A. I THINK THE MAGNITUDE OF THE PHOSPHOROUS IN SOME LOCALIZED AREAS MAY BE TOO HIGH. WE TALKED ABOUT WHERE SUBSIDY HAS OCCURRED; THERE MAY BE SOME AREAS WHEREBY EITHER THE CONCENTRATION OR THE LOAD MAY HAVE EXCEEDED THE CAPACITY OF THAT SYSTEM TO FUNCTION, AND THEN YOU HAVE -- YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM THAT SUBSIDY DOES NOT CONTINUE IN A LINEAR FASHION AD INFINITUM. IT REACHES SOME POINT WHEREBY YOU -- FROM MY STUDIES AND OTHER PEOPLES -- THAT, IN FACT, IT BECOMES TOO MUCH. SO, THERE OBVIOUSLY IS A THRESHOLD OR SOME BOUNDARY WHERE YOU WOULD NOT LIKE TO EXCEED THIS. Q. WHERE DO YOU BELIEVE IT HAS -- THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1661 PHOSPHOROUS -- OR THE MAGNITUDE OF THE PHOSPHOROUS HAS BECOME TOO GREAT? A. WHERE? Q. WHERE, YEAH. A. I WOULD SAY THAT IT DEPENDS -- REALLY, THAT REALLY RELATES TO WHAT YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN AS A COMMUNITY, IF YOU'RE -- WHAT YOUR OBJECTIVES ARE FOR THE COMMUNITY. IF -- IF, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN ECOLOGICAL COMMUNITY, THEN I CAN GIVE YOU SOME RELATIVE IDEA WHERE I THINK THAT LEVEL, AT LEAST -- OR WHETHER OR NOT, IN FACT, WE SHOULD CONSIDER REDUCTIONS. FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK I HAVE SAID BEFORE THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN PARTS OF THE EVERGLADES THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE UNIQUE THAN OTHERS AND, SO, ONE MIGHT NOT WANT TO PLACE ELEVATED LEVELS OF NUTRIENTS INTO THOSE SYSTEMS. Q. ALL RIGHT. WHERE -- WHICH PARTS ARE MORE UNIQUE, THAT IN YOUR OPINION SHOULD NOT HAVE ELEVATED LEVELS OF PHOSPHOROUS? A. WELL, I THINK THE PARK, PER SE, WHICH IS SEVENTY MILES SOUTH OF OKEECHOBEE, HAS PROBABLY HISTORICALLY RECEIVED THE LOWER LEVELS -- LOWEST LEVELS OF PROBABLY PHOSPHOROUS AND, SO, I THINK THEY SHOULD -- IT SHOULD CONTINUE TO RECEIVE LOWER LEVELS OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1662 PHOSPHOROUS. Q. ANYWHERE ELSE? A. I THINK THE LOXAHATCHEE AREA, AS I MENTIONED, TOO, EARLIER, IS -- IS SOMEWHAT UNIQUE FOR DIFFERENT REASONS. ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST, LET'S SAY, FEW HUNDRED YEARS TO A THOUSAND YEARS, SINCE IT HAS THAT MORE OF AN OMBROTROPHIC NATURE AND HAS BEEN RAINFALL FED, I BELIEVE THAT AREA SHOULD NOT BE RECEIVING -- IN FACT, FOR THE MOST PART, I DON'T BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE RECEIVING ANY WATER WHATSOEVER OTHER THAN RAINFALL. Q. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PHOSPHOROUS NOW, NOT WATER. A. WELL, SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO REMOVE THE PHOSPHOROUS FROM THE WATER. Q. YOU TESTIFIED THAT THERE'S SOME AREAS WHICH ARE UNIQUE, WHICH SOMEONE MAY MAKE THE DECISION THAT THE PHOSPHOROUS LEVEL SHOULD BE KEPT LOW. YOU TOLD ME ENP WAS ONE OF THESE, AND NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME THE LOXAHATCHEE IS ONE. A. I'M TELLING YOU THE LOXAHATCHEE IS AN AREA THAT I THINK ESPECIALLY THE CENTER PORTION IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST LEAST MAN-UNDISTURBED SYSTEMS WE HAVE. Q. ANY OTHER AREAS THAT YOU BELIEVE ARE UNIQUE AND, ACCORDINGLY, THE PHOSPHOROUS SHOULD BE KEPT LOW? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1663 A. WELL, I CAN'T SAY THEY'RE ALL, YOU KNOW, UNIQUE. WE BEGIN TO USE UNIQUE -- IF WE USE UNIQUE TOO MANY TIMES, THERE'S NOTHING LEFT THAT'S -- LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY THESE AREAS ARE MORE REPRESENTATIVE OR CLOSER TO, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE ALTERED, CLOSER TO MAYBE WHAT THE ORIGINAL BASELINE OF THE EVERGLADES WAS. LET'S REDEFINE IT THAT WAY. SO, I WOULD THEN INCLUDE IN THAT, PROBABLY, 3 AS THE NEXT AREA. Q. OKAY. ANYWHERE ELSE? A. WELL, I THINK THAT COVERS PRETTY MUCH. I WOULD SAY THAT 2 HAS BEEN -- I MENTIONED BEFORE -- THE MOST HIGHLY ALTERED OF ALL THE SYSTEMS THAT I'VE SEEN, AND IT WOULD BE QUITE DIFFICULT TO DEFINE THAT AS CLOSE -- CLOSE TO THE -- AT LEAST, THE NORTHERN END, WHAT IT WAS PRIOR TO THE CANALS GOING IN. THERE ARE PORTIONS TO THE WEST AND TO THE SOUTH, I STILL THINK MAINTAIN, OTHER THAN THAT PULSED HYDROLOGY, SOME SEMBLANCE OF WHAT IT WAS. Q. WELL, DOES THAT MEAN, THEN, THAT YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO KEEP THE PHOSPHOROUS LEVELS LOW IN THE PART OF 2A THAT IS NOT SIMILAR OR CLOSE TO ITS BASELINE, HISTORICAL BASELINE? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. LOW, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY LOW, BUT--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1664 Q. THE SAME WAY WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IN THE LAST -- FOR THE LAST FIVE MINUTES. A. RIGHT. WELL, I WOULD THINK THERE'D BE DIFFERENT -- I THINK I COULD SAY THAT IT PROBABLY WOULD NOT MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE FOR A CONSIDERABLE PERIOD OF TIME IF YOU LOWERED THE WATER PHOSPHOROUS CONCENTRATIONS AS LONG AS YOU KEPT PUMPING WATER THROUGH THERE TO THAT PARTICULAR ZONE. IN THE NORTH, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S NOW, I THINK, JUST SOUTH OF THE STRUCTURES -- WELL, IT'S HIGHLY ELEVATED IN PHOSPHOROUS. THE SOIL PORE WATER CONCENTRATIONS ARE A THOUSAND MICROGRAMS PER LITER; SO, I DON'T THINK ADDING LOW PHOSPHOROUS WATER IS GOING TO HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON THAT ZONE. THAT'S, OF COURSE, SEVERAL KILOMETERS, BECAUSE I THINK 2A HAS, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS MORNING, UNDERGONE SO MANY DIFFERENT ALTERATIONS. Q. WELL, IS IT YOUR OPINION, THEREFORE, THAT THERE SHOULD BE NO ATTEMPT MADE TO REDUCE THE PHOSPHOROUS LEVEL ENTERING 2A? A. I DIDN'T SAY THAT. Q. OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU DID OR NOT. THAT'S WHY I ASK YOU IF THAT'S YOUR OPINION. A. I THINK, AS I SAID BEFORE, THAT -- THAT -- AND I'VE RECOMMENDED THIS TO AGRICULTURE BEFORE -- IS THAT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1665 THEY SHOULD -- I THINK I STARTED THIS IN '88 OR '89 -- THAT THEY SHOULD CONSIDER, SINCE THE EVERGLADES WAS AN OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEM, BY AND LARGE, THEY SHOULD CONSIDER BMP'S AND OTHER TECHNOLOGIES THAT COULD BE UTILIZED TO REDUCE THE PHOSPHOROUS LEVELS TO AS LOW A TECHNOLOGICAL LEVEL THAT THEY COULD, WITHOUT CAUSING OTHER -- THERE'S A POSSIBILITY YOU'D CAUSE OTHER ECOLOGICAL PROBLEMS -- AND THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO -- IT WAS THEIR PROBLEM IN TERMS OF CONSIDERING THESE ALTERNATIVES. I WAS NOT GOING TO BE INVOLVED WITH THESE ALTERNATE TECHNOLOGIES, BUT IT WAS MY RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY PROCEED FORWARD WITH THIS. Q. DID THEY? A. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING IN THE LAST FEW YEARS. I HAVE HAD CONTACT WITH ANY NUMBER OF CONSULTANTS AND SCIENTISTS AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONTACTED ME OR SHOWN ME OR TALKED ABOUT VARIOUS AND SUNDRY POSSIBLE PHOSPHOROUS-REDUCING MECHANISMS, AND I'VE SEEN PRESENTATIONS ON HALF A DOZEN. THERE ARE MORE SCHEMES TO REDUCE PHOSPHOROUS THAN YOU CAN ALMOST COUNT. Q. ISN'T IT A FACT THAT THERE WAS REALLY NOTHING DONE VERY SUBSTANTIAL TO REDUCE IT UNTIL THE RULE, THE BMP RULE, TOOK EFFECT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1666 MR. BURGESS: OBJECTION. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I'M NOT SURE WHEN THE BMP RULE TOOK EFFECT. Q. WITHIN THE LAST TWO TO THREE YEARS. MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, I -- I CAN'T SAY THAT -- I CAN'T SAY THAT, LOOKING AT SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS, THAT THE FARMERS DID NOT, FOR EXAMPLE, REDUCE SOME AMOUNTS OF PHOSPHOROUS. I DO KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT, MAYBE BY SERENDIPITY, BUT, THAT THEY REDUCED THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHOROUS ON -- WHICH WAS A SURPRISE TO ME, BUT IT TURNED OUT TO BE -- FOR ECONOMIC REASONS, BUT IT WORKED OUT JUST AS WELL. THEY STOPPED -- REDUCED -- THEY REDUCED THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHOROUS ON SUGARCANE LAND BECAUSE IT PRODUCED BIG EARS BUT LESS SUGAR, BIG LEAVES BUT THE SUGAR CONTENT WENT DOWN, SO I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THAT, AND I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN PROVIDING RESEARCH DOLLARS TO IFAS FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS LOOKING AT -- THERE WERE SOME EARLY STUDIES THAT I HAD LOOKED AT THAT BASICALLY LOOKED AT SOME NUTRIENT BUDGETS AND SOME THINGS THAT THEY TRIED TO AT LEAST LOOK AT THAT. NOW, IN TERMS OF IMPLEMENTATION, THEY ARE MORE -- LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY, I THINK THEY ARE FAR MORE ACTIVE IN THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS THAN THEY DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1667 HAVE BEEN IN THE PREVIOUS DECADE. Q. DID YOU SAY THAT -- DID YOU SAY YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT THE SUGAR YIELD WAS REDUCED BY ADDITIONAL PHOSPHOROUS AND IT WAS CUT BACK? A. NO. WHAT IT DOES IS, I THINK YOU END UP WITH MORE CARBON PER SUGAR YIELD. IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT HAPPENS, I THINK, IS -- AS I UNDERSTAND; I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN THIS AREA -- BUT AS I'M TOLD, ORIGINALLY, IT'S SORT OF LIKE WHAT YOU DO WITH MILK WEIGHT. AND GROWING UP ON AND BEING A FARM BOY, I CAN GIVE YOU THIS ANALOGY. YOU PRODUCE POUNDS OF MILK, BUT YOU GET PAID BY THE POUNDS TIMES THE BUTTER FAT CONTENT. SUGARCANE, YOU USED TO GET PAID BY THE TON, BUT I THINK YOU NOW GET PAID BY THE TON TIMES THE SUGAR DENSITY -- THE AMOUNT OF SUGAR IN THE CANE. SO, IF YOU PRODUCE LOTS OF TONNAGE WITH LOWER SUGAR CONTENT, AND YOU DIDN'T TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT, THEN BECAUSE IF YOU HAD MORE TONNAGE AND YOU WERE PAID ONLY BY TONNAGE, SOME INDIVIDUALS GOT MORE -- GOT MORE TONNAGE THAT WAY. BUT NOW, THEY'VE -- BY IMPLEMENTING THAT POLICY, THEY WOULD BE ACTUALLY NOT, I THINK, ECONOMICALLY AS FEASIBLE DOING IT THAT WAY. Q. SO, BY REDUCING THE PHOSPHOROUS, THEY, IN EFFECT, INCREASE THEIR PROFIT ON THE PER TON, OR DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1668 INCREASE THE--- A. I DON'T THINK I SAID THAT, EITHER. I THINK -- I THINK IT'S SIMPLY--- Q. WELL, THEY GET MORE MONEY. A. I'M NOT SURE HOW THE MONEY SITUATION -- I'M SIMPLY TELLING YOU THE BIOLOGY OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PLANT. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THE ECONOMICS ALL WORKED OUT. I THINK THEY -- BUT I BELIEVE IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE IFAS REPORTS, I MEAN, THEY WENT TO BEDDING AND -- I MEAN, NOT BEDDING BUT I MEAN BASICALLY TRYING TO PLACE FERTILIZER. MOST FARMERS, BECAUSE OF SIMPLE ECONOMICS, HAVE BEEN TRYING TO REDUCE ANY COSTS THEY HAVE, AND FERTILIZER WOULD BE A COST, SO, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN SOME EFFORT TO DO THAT. AS I SAID, I THINK IT'S BEEN FAR MORE ACCURATE IN THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS -- I'M NOT TRYING TO PORTRAY THAT IN ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN THAT -- THAN IT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS DECADE. Q. SINCE THE RULE TOOK EFFECT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, I CAN'T REALLY ATTEST TO--- Q. OKAY. THE -- GOING BACK TO YOUR DESCRIPTION OF THE CURRENT STATUS AND HEALTH, YOU SAID THAT THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1669 EVERGLADES WOULD BE OPERATING WITH A NEW BASELINE; WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? A. AS A NEW HYDROPERIOD REGIME FOR MANY PORTIONS OF IT; AS A NEW -- IT'S STARTED TO FUNCTION AS A PULSED SYSTEM IN PLACES. IN OTHER WORDS, IT RECEIVES ITS WATER AND NUTRIENTS ON A PULSED BASIS IN MANY LOCATIONS. THERE ARE BARRIERS TO FLOW THAT EXIST, SO -- I GUESS WITH FOURTEEN HUNDRED MILES OF CANALS. THERE ARE SECTIONS THAT, IN THE SOUTHERN END OF MANY OF THOSE CONSERVATION AREAS, WERE DESIGNED TO HOLD WATER, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. THEY HOLD DEEP WATER IN THE SOUTHERN END. THE LOXAHATCHEE IN THE SOUTHERN END HAS WATER HELD IN IT FROM A PERIOD OF TIME WHICH IT NORMALLY WOULD NOT HAVE HAD, I WOULD THINK, WITHOUT THAT DIKE THERE. Q. IS THERE ANY -- IN THIS NEW BASELINE, IS THERE ANY COMPONENT RELATED TO PHOSPHOROUS? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. I THINK THE PHOSPHOROUS IN THE MAJOR PORTIONS OF THE EVERGLADES -- LIKE THE PARK, BOTH OF -- THE LOXAHATCHEE, PORTIONS OF 3A -- HAVE NOT SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGED. THERE ARE AREAS NEAR THE DIKES AND RELEASE POINTS AND IN 2A THAT HAVE SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGED, ALBEIT I THINK MAYBE RAINFALL VALUES MAY HAVE INCREASED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1670 A BIT, BUT YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT WITH ALL THE ACTIVITY OF HUMANS. Q. DO YOU CONSIDER THE PHOSPHOROUS FROM RAINFALL TO BE THE EQUIVALENT OF PHOSPHOROUS FROM BULK DEPOSITION, BULK ATMOSPHERIC DEPOSITION? A. TO BE EQUIVALENT? Q. YEAH. IS THAT THE SAME THING, IN YOUR MIND? A. WELL, YOU COULD -- IF YOU DID -- IF YOU LOOKED AT BULK DEPOSITION, I GUESS, BULK MEANING BOTH WET AND DRY--- Q. CORRECT. A. ---AND YOU ANALYZED IT CORRECTLY, YOU WOULD HAVE AN ESTIMATE OF THE TOTAL PHOSPHOROUS FALLING IN -- COMING INTO A SYSTEM, YEAH, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER OPINIONS--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. Q. ---THAT YOU -- SUCH AS THE ONE YOU GAVE ME REGARDING YOUR OVERALL VIEWS OF THE STATE OR THE HEALTH OF THE EVERGLADES? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, I THINK WE COVERED IT YESTERDAY. I MEAN THE ONLY OTHER THING WAS RELATED TO THE STA'S AND IMPLEMENTATION OF THE STA'S, THAT I CAN THINK OF. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1671 Q. DO YOU HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS OR OTHER OPINIONS BESIDES WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT? DO YOU THINK THEY'RE NOT PROPERLY SIZED? A. I THINK I SAID YESTERDAY I THINK WE HAVE SOME EVIDENCE NOW THAT THEY'RE NOT PROPERLY SIZED. THERE MAY BE SOME TRANSFERABILITY ISSUES. Q. WHAT IS THE SIZE RIGHT NOW, AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT? A. I THINK THE BURNS AND McDONNELL REPORT TALKS ABOUT IT AS FORTY THOUSAND ACRES. Q. FORTY THOUSAND ACRES? OKAY. WHICH BURNS AND McDONNELL REPORT? A. THIS IS -- I THINK IT'S THE LAST ONE; IT'S FEBRUARY OR SOMETHING. Q. '94? A. I DON'T REMEMBER THE LAST DAY OF FEBRUARY. IT'S THE LAST--- Q. BUT, I MEAN, IT'S THIS YEAR, FEBRUARY? A. YES. Q. OKAY. AND YOU UNDERSTAND THAT'S WHAT'S BEING BUILT? I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO BE BUILT--- A. I UNDERSTAND THAT'S--- Q. ---AS PART OF THIS SWIM PLAN? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1672 A. THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS BEING PROPOSED. Q. AND YOU BELIEVE THAT THE FORTY THOUSAND ACRES IS NOT LARGE ENOUGH? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I BELIEVE THE STA'S AS OUTLINED AND DESIGNED, AND WHAT I'VE HEARD ABOUT AND WHAT I'VE HEARD DR. KADLEC TALK ABOUT AND THE EVIDENCE I HAVE, BASICALLY WILL HAVE -- UNDERSTANDING THE ECOLOGY OF THOSE PLANTS AS I DO -- WILL HAVE GRAVE DIFFICULTIES IN MEETING A PROPOSED FIFTY PARTS PER BILLION STANDARD UNDER THOSE LOADS THAT ARE PROPOSED. Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH PHOSPHOROUS IS DESIGNED TO BE TREATED BY THE STA'S, WHAT LOAD? A. IT SEEMS TO BE AN EVER-MOVING TARGET. Q. OKAY. WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT TO BE? A. WELL, AT ONE TIME, I THOUGHT IT WAS TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY TONS WITH ALL THE BYPASS WATER AND LAKE WATER AND SO FORTH; AND THEN I'M TOLD NOW IT'S LIKE MAYBE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF A HUNDRED TONS. BUT IT REALLY WILL DEPEND UPON THE ADDITIONAL WATER THAT MAY ADDITIONALLY PASS THROUGH. SO, I THINK IT'S NOT REALLY TOTALLY CLEAR. AS I SAY, I READ THOSE AND LISTEN TO DOCUMENTS -- OR LISTEN TO PEOPLE TALK, AND IT VARIES FROM SOME NUMBER. I -- IT DOESN'T -- IT ISN'T DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1673 REALLY CRITICAL. WHAT'S REALLY CRITICAL IS TO KNOW, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, THE LOAD PER UNIT AREA THAT'S PROPOSED, AND SOME OF THE OTHER FEATURES WE TALKED ABOUT. AND I THINK WHAT'S MOST CRITICAL IS THE FACT THAT, AS A SCIENTIST, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE STATE PROPOSED TO DO, AND THAT IS TO TEST THE ENR PROJECT. Q. WHEN DID THE STATE PROPOSE TO DO THAT? A. I THOUGHT THEY PUT THAT IN THE SWIM PLAN; THAT'S MY RECOLLECTION. Q. YOU MEAN TO TEST THE ENR PROJECT BEFORE THE STA'S WERE BUILT? A. WELL, THEY HAD IT IN THERE, BUT I'M NOT SURE -- I CAN'T REMEMBER WHETHER THEY WERE GOING TO BUILD ALL THE STA'S. I BELIEVE THEY TALKED ABOUT JUST BUILDING IT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE OTHER STA'S, WHICH I DON'T AGREE WITH. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF THE ENR PROJECT HAS BEEN BUILT? A. THE WALLS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED, AND I UNDERSTAND IT'S NOW BEING FLOODED OR HAS BEEN FLOODED. Q. SO, THAT WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU IT'S NOT BEING BUILT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE STA'S? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. IT WAS PROPOSED TO BE THE FIRST ONE IN LINE. IT WAS PROPOSED AS A TEST SITE. BUT IT'S NOT, AS I DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1674 UNDERSTAND IT, A FUNCTIONING TEST SITE TO THIS DATE. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS -- EPA HAS BLOCKED ANY RELEASE OF WATERS, AND SO IT'S SITTING THERE AS A POND, NOT MUCH TESTING BEING DONE. Q. ARE YOU GOING TO BE EXPRESSING ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THAT SUBJECT, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S ROLE WITH REGARD TO THE ENR AND WHAT'S HAPPENING TO IT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. I DON'T THINK THERE'S MUCH OF AN OPINION TO GIVE RELATED TO THAT EXCEPT SIMPLY THAT EPA -- I'M NOT GOING TO -- I'M NOT A POLICYMAKER; I'M NOT GOING TO BE CITING WHETHER THEY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN A DISCHARGE PERMIT. THAT'S REALLY NOT OF MY PURVIEW. Q. OKAY. IF YOU ASSUMED THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE A HUNDRED TONS TO BE TREATED WITH THE STA'S, BASED ON YOUR STUDIES, ARE YOU ABLE TO ASSIGN AN ACREAGE? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WE WOULD BE ABLE TO, FROM THE FIELD STUDIES, GIVE AN ESTIMATION; AND ON THE LOAD BASIS, WE COULD GIVE SOME ESTIMATION. Q. AND HAVE YOU DONE THAT IN ANY OF YOUR PAPERS ANYWHERE? A. I BELIEVE WE GAVE SOME NUMBERS IN SEVERAL OF OUR MANUSCRIPTS THAT WERE PUBLISHED. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1675 Q. AND ISN'T IT A FACT THAT THE ACREAGE THAT YOU'VE GIVEN IS VERY CLOSE TO THE SAME ACREAGE THAT THE DISTRICT PROPOSES TO BUILD IN THE SWIM PLAN? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE FORTY THOUSAND ACRES? Q. TO THE ACREAGE THAT -- IN THE SWIM PLAN. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WHAT'S THE ACREAGE IN THE SWIM PLAN? I'M NOT SURE IF I REMEMBER WHAT ACREAGE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Q. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'D LIKE TO KNOW, IF YOU KNOW THAT. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE ACREAGE THAT THEY--- A. I THOUGHT THE ACREAGE THEY PROPOSED IN THE SWIM PLAN WAS LIKE TWENTY-SIX THOUSAND ACRES OR SOMETHING. Q. OKAY. ASSUMING IT'S TWENTY-SIX THOUSAND ACRES IN THE SWIM PLAN, IS IT A FACT, OR NOT, THAT YOUR PROPOSED ACREAGE BASED ON YOUR STUDIES FOR THE TREATMENT OF A HUNDRED TONS IS ABOUT THE SAME? A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE NUMBERS. I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. Q. WELL, HOW CAN YOU SAY, THEN, THAT THE ACREAGE IN THE SWIM PLAN IS WRONG? A. WELL, I DON'T BELIEVE THE SWIM PLAN TALKED ABOUT A HUNDRED TONS. I THOUGHT THE SWIM PLAN TALKED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1676 ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-FIVE TONS. I DON'T BELIEVE IT MENTIONED A HUNDRED TONS. BUT I'M SAYING FROM MY NUMBERS, YOU CAN CALCULATE. YOU TELL ME THE TONNAGE AND AT SOME POINT WE CAN SIT DOWN AND CALCULATE IT, BUT I DON'T HAVE THOSE NUMBERS IN MY HAND. BUT I UNDERSTAND IT WAS MUCH MORE. AS I SAID, IT WENT FROM TWO TWENTY, ONE SEVENTY-FIVE; YOU HEAR ALL SORTS OF NUMBERS. Q. OKAY. WELL, RIGHT NOW, DO YOU KNOW WHAT TONNAGE THE SWIM PLAN THAT'S BEING CHALLENGED IN THIS PROCEEDING IS DESIGNED TO TREAT? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN REMEMBER EXACTLY OR NOT. MY RECOLLECTION, IT WAS LIKE A HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-FIVE TONS, BUT I MIGHT NOT BE TOTALLY ACCURATE ON THAT. Q. AND DO YOU KNOW AT THIS POINT WHAT ACREAGE WAS PROPOSED IN THE SWIM PLAN THAT'S BEING CHALLENGED IN THIS PROCEEDING? A. REPEAT THAT, PLEASE. Q. DO YOU KNOW THE ACREAGE THAT IS PROPOSED FOR TREATMENT OF STA'S IN THE SWIM PLAN THAT'S BEING CHALLENGED? A. I THINK IT'S -- I THINK IT'S TWENTY-SIX THOUSAND ACRES. THAT'S MY RECOLLECTION, BUT I'D HAVE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1677 TO LOOK AT THE DOCUMENTS. AS I SAID, THESE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN CHANGING. Q. WELL, YOU'RE EXPRESSING AN OPINION THAT THE SIZING IS WRONG IN THE SWIM PLAN; IS THAT CORRECT? A. BASED ON OUR NUMBERS, YES. Q. OKAY. A. BUT, AS I SAID, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON SITTING DOWN WITH OUR MODEL AND OUR BASIC ESTIMATES AND DECIDING THIS COULD BE DONE. WE CAN PLAY -- YOU KNOW, WE CAN PLAY THE NUMBERS GAME, TRYING TO GUESS IF I CHANGE IT TO FORTY, WHAT IS THE INSTANT ANSWER. BUT THE ANSWER IS THE ANSWER. IT WILL BE WHATEVER OUR ESTIMATES SUGGEST THEY WILL BE. THEY WILL BE WITHIN CERTAIN BOUNDS. Q. ANY OTHER OPINIONS THAT YOU HAVE THAT HAVE COME TO YOUR MIND SINCE WE BROKE? A. WELL, LET ME LOOK AT MY ANNUAL REPORT, AND SEE -- TO MAKE SURE I HAVEN'T MISSED ANYTHING. Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU REVIEWED ANY REMOTE-SENSING DATA? A. I'VE LOOKED AT SOME REMOTE-SENSING DATA, YES. Q. WHEN? A. I'VE LOOKED AT SOME -- LET'S SEE. MR. BURGESS: DO YOU WANT HIM TO ANSWER DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1678 THE QUESTION ABOUT ANY OTHER OPINIONS? HE SAID, "LET ME LOOK THROUGH MY ANNUAL REPORT," AND THEN YOU ASKED HIM--- MR. REID: NO, I THOUGHT HE MEANT HE WAS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT IT LATER TODAY. HE'S GOT IT IN FRONT OF HIM. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT. I PLAN TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. MR. BURGESS: OKAY. HE'S--- MR. REID: HE CAN CERTAINLY -- DOES HE WANT TO TAKE A BREAK AND GO THROUGH IT AND SEE IF HE HAS OTHER OPINIONS? MR. BURGESS: NO, BUT I THINK THE ANSWER -- HE SAID, "LET ME TAKE A LOOK AT MY ANNUAL REPORT"--- MR. REID: WELL, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HE WAS ASKING TO TAKE A LOOK -- DID YOU WANT TO TAKE A BREAK AND READ YOUR ANNUAL REPORT RIGHT NOW, OR DID YOU JUST MEAN WHEN WE LOOK AT IT? WITNESS: I SAID -- NO, WHEN I TAKE -- IF YOU WANT ME TO. YOU ASKED FOR OTHER OPINIONS, AND I SAID I WOULD LIKE TO RELY ON MY ANNUAL REPORT TO MAKE SURE I HAVEN'T MISSED SOMETHING, AND THEN YOU WENT ON, SO--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1679 MR. REID: ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT YOUR ANNUAL REPORT. WITNESS: FINE. Q. (BY MR. REID) WHAT REMOTE-SENSING DATA HAVE YOU SEEN? A. ORIGIN -- WELL, I THINK -- WELL, I'VE SEEN SOME -- YOU MEAN ALL, WHATEVER I'VE SEEN, EVERYWHERE? Q. WELL, WHATEVER YOU HAD IN YOUR MIND WHEN YOU SAID YOU JUST LOOKED AT SOME. I ASKED YOU IF YOU HAD LOOKED AT ANY REMOTE-SENSING DATA; AND YOU SAID, YEAH, YOU JUST LOOKED AT SOME, AND I SAID WHAT--- Q. WELL--- A. ---SO, WHATEVER YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT. Q. I LOOKED AT SOME THAT WAS PROVIDED TO ME MONDAY, I GUESS, BY THE CO-OP. Q. WHOSE WORK WAS THAT? A. WELL, I COULDN'T REMEMBER THE NAME MONDAY, SO I SURELY CAN'T REMEMBER IT NOW. Q. YOU DON'T KNOW WHO DID THE REMOTE-SENSING OR WHERE IT CAME FROM? A. I KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM. THE CO-OP COMMISSIONED THE STUDY, TO HAVE IT DONE, AND I HAD ACTUALLY MET WITH SOME OF THE CO-OP PEOPLE TO LOOK AT SOME OF THAT IN THIS PLAN. IT JUST -- I'M TERRIBLE AT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1680 NAMES -- IF YOU HAVEN'T FIGURED THIS OUT BY NOW, SO I JUST -- THE NAME ESCAPES ME AS TO WHO DID THIS WORK. BUT YOU WILL GET IT, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, AND YOU WILL HAVE THE NAME. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WAS THE RESULT OF YOUR LOOKING AT THAT REMOTE-SENSING DATA? A. I ONLY HAD A VERY BRIEF TIME TO LOOK AT IT. WE COVERED THAT YESTERDAY. I SAID I LOOKED AT A FEW AREAS THAT I WAS FAMILIAR WITH, AND IT SEEMED TO REPRESENT WHAT I UNDERSTOOD TO BE OPEN WATER AREAS AND THE SAWGRASS AREAS AND SOME CATTAIL AREAS, BUT I HAVE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO STUDY THAT IN GREAT DETAIL. MR. REID: ARE WE GOING TO GET TO SEE THAT, BILL, OR IS THAT--- MR. GREEN: AS I SAID YESTERDAY, YOU'VE GOT IT. MR. REID: THE REMOTE SENSING? MR. GREEN: THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. IF YOU DON'T -- TODAY'S WEDNESDAY; YOU SHOULD HAVE IT. MR. REID: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. I TAKE IT, THEN, YOU HAVE NO OPINIONS THAT ARE BASED ON THE REMOTE-SENSING DATA THAT THE CO-OP HAD THAT YOU LOOKED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1681 AT MONDAY? A. OTHER THAN THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE AREAS THAT I KNEW, BUT I DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO GO THROUGH IT IN GREAT DETAIL. Q. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT ANY OTHER REMOTE-SENSING DATA? A. ORIGINALLY I HAD LOOKED AT SOME LANDSAT DATA THAT WAS ANALYZED BY ERIM FIRM BACK IN '89, I GUESS IT WAS. AND I'VE LOOKED AT -- YEAH, THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE MAJOR PIECES OF REMOTE-SENSING DATA. Q. AND HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THAT -- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU LOOKED AT THAT? A. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THAT DATA -- I MAY HAVE SHOWN THE SLIDE IN CLASS, BUT I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THAT DATA, YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN JUST TO LOOK AT THE SLIDE, IN ANY DETAILS FOR A YEAR A TWO. Q. ARE ANY OF THE OPINIONS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO EXPRESS IN THIS CASE BASED ON ANYTHING IN THAT LANDSAT DATA? A. THEY GIVE ME SORT OF AN OVERVIEW OF THE CONDITIONS FROM THAT PERIOD. THERE WERE SOME TIME SEQUENCES FROM THAT, AND WHEN THAT'S MATCHED WITH SOME AERIAL SURVEYS THAT WERE DONE BY MIKE DENNIS AND CREW, THEY PROVIDE ME A BASIS TO LOOK AT THE AERIAL EXTENT OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1682 VEGETATION, ESPECIALLY AS IT RELATES TO VARIOUS DENSITIES OF CATTAILS, SAWGRASS. Q. SO, SOMEBODY HAS TAKEN THE ERIM DATA, THE ANALYSIS OF ERIM, AND COMPARED THAT IN SOME WAY TO THE DENNIS AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO FORM. A. NO, I DIDN'T SAY THAT. Q. ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT? A. I SAID I WAS -- I HAD LOOKED AT THAT DATA AS A BASELINE AND THEN, FROM THAT, A MORE DETAILED -- THAT DATA FROM THE LANDSAT IS SORT OF A FIRST-CUT LOOK TO SEE, WHEN WE FIRST GOT INTO THIS STUDY, WHETHER OR NOT, IN FACT, CATTAILS WERE EXTENSIVE IN MONOCULTURE THROUGHOUT THESE AREAS. AND, SO, THAT FIRST CUT WAS SIMPLY TO TAKE AN ANALYSIS. IT GIVES YOU A -- IT DOESN'T PICK UP ALL THE CATTAILS, BUT IT GIVES YOU A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF WHERE THE MONOCULTURES EXISTED AT THAT PERIOD. SO, THAT GIVES ME THE FIRST CUT, AND THEN THE SECOND CUT REALLY IS LOOKING AT MORE EXTENSIVELY THE -- THE LOW-ELEVATION SURVEYS THAT WERE DONE BY--- Q. BY DENNIS? A. BY DENNIS. MR. GREEN: COUNSELOR, LET ME INTERJECT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1683 FOR THE RECORD. I WAS WAITING FOR YOU TO FINISH THAT PIECE THERE. DUE TO THE FAULT OF NO ONE, I ASSUME, YOU KNOW, WE WEREN'T ABLE TO FINISH DR. JENSON. I ASSUME YOU'RE AWARE OF THAT. THERE WAS A PROBLEM THERE. WE HAD DELAYED ENTRY AND ACCESS INTO DIFFERENT AREAS THAT RELATE TO THE REMOTE-SENSING WORK. WE RESERVED THE RIGHT, BASICALLY, TO BRING TO PROFESSOR RICHARDSON'S ATTENTION THE COMPLETION OF OUR SATELLITE WORK, TO THE EXTENT IT HASN'T BEEN COMPLETED, WHEN IT'S COMPLETED; AND IT HASN'T BEEN COMPLETED YET. PARTS OF IT HAVE, PARTS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT--- MR. REID: IS THIS THE ERIM--- MR. GREEN: ---AND I THINK THAT MR. -- NO, IT'S NOT -- IT'S LAW ENVIRONMENTAL. MR. REID: WELL, THAT'S--- MR. GREEN: I KNOW, BUT I JUST--- MR. REID: OKAY. MR. GREEN: ---WHILE WE'RE ON THIS TOPIC. MR. REID: I SEE. OKAY. MR. GREEN: I BELIEVE THAT THE -- MR. DOWNING FROM LAW IS BEING DEPOSED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1684 TOMORROW AND, YOU KNOW, TO THE EXTENT THAT PROFESSOR RICHARDSON RELIES ON THAT AND, IF NECESSARY, ASKS HIM QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T -- I GUESS WE WOULD SAY WE'D MAKE HIM AVAILABLE FOR FURTHER QUESTIONS, BUT I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT--- MR. REID: OKAY. MR. GREEN: ---WE INTEND TO BRING THOSE TO HIS ATTENTION WHEN THEY'RE DONE. MR. REID: ALL RIGHT. LET'S WORK THROUGH IT, THEN. MR. GREEN: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) THE ERIM ANALYSIS, ARE YOU -- YOU'VE NOT LOOKED AT THAT IN A NUMBER OF YEARS? A. NOT IN ANY DETAIL. THAT -- AS I SAID, THAT WAS A FIRST-CUT ANALYSIS TO SEE THE MAGNITUDE OF EXTENT OF MONOCULTURES OF CATTAIL. Q. OKAY. ARE YOU GOING TO BE RELYING ON THE ERIM ANALYSIS FOR YOUR OPINIONS IN THIS CASE? A. ONLY IN THE GENERAL SENSE. Q. OKAY. WHERE IS THE ERIM NOW? A. THAT'S ALL BEEN TURNED OVER TO YOU. Q. OKAY. BEFORE YOUR LAST DEPOSITION? ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU MENTIONED THE DENNIS WORK. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1685 A. RIGHT. Q. HAVE YOU REVIEWED THE DENNIS WORK? A. I RECEIVED THAT FAIRLY RECENTLY, AND I HAVE LOOKED AT THAT AND LOOKED AT SOME OF THE ACREAGE FIGURES FOR BOTH -- THE VEGETATION. AND I HAVE LOOKED AT -- I BELIEVE THERE'S TWO SURVEYS, '91 AND '93, AND ALSO SOME MELALEUCA INFORMATION. Q. AND WAS THAT -- IS THAT IN YOUR FILES? A. YES, I BELIEVE IT WAS. Q. OKAY. AND WAS IT PRODUCED? A. I COULDN'T TELL YOU. Q. WELL, I DIDN'T SEE IT IN THE BOX THAT I GOT. A. THEN -- I PUT IT IN THE BOX, SO I CAN--- MR. BURGESS: WHAT IS IT? MR. REID: THE DENNIS -- ALL THE DENNIS -- THE MAPS AND THINGS THAT DENNIS DID. MR. BURGESS: THOSE HAVE ALL BEEN PRODUCED. MR. REID: OH, I KNOW THEY WERE IN DENNIS. BUT, I MEAN, IF THEY'RE IN HIS FILES, I'M ENTITLED TO GET THEM FROM HIM. MR. BURGESS: I THINK I PUT ON -- I THINK I PUT ON THE LIST OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1686 PUBLICLY-AVAILABLE DATA AND DATA AND THE EXHIBITS PRODUCED IN OTHER DEPOSITIONS, THOSE BDA MAPS. MR. REID: I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT. IT APPARENTLY CAME IN AFTER WE STARTED UP HERE, OR AT LEAST AFTER WE LEFT FOR UP HERE. Q. (BY MR. REID) SO, TELL ME TO WHAT EXTENT OR HOW YOU'RE RELYING -- WHAT OPINIONS YOU HAVE BASED ON THE DENNIS DATA? A. WELL, THAT DATA GIVES ME A FAIRLY RECENT PICTURE OF THE EXTENT OF THE CATTAIL. MY MAJOR INTEREST WAS TO LOOK AT THE EXTENT OF CATTAIL AND OTHER SPECIES IN THE -- IN THE EVERGLADES, AND I'VE MET WITH MIKE DENNIS ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS, AND HE HAS PRESENTED SOME OF THE SUMMARIES OF THAT AND THEN FINALLY PRODUCED THE FIGURE; AND, FROM THAT, I LOOKED AT THE ACREAGE THAT WOULD BE IN SEVERAL CATEGORIES AND DETERMINED TO WHAT EXTENT THE CATTAIL MONOCULTURE WOULD EXIST AND WHERE IT EXISTED. Q. NOW, THE DENNIS -- THE '91 AND THE '93, THE TWO DIFFERENT MAPS, ISN'T IT A FACT THAT THE CATTAILS WERE MORE WIDELY DISTRIBUTED IN '93 THAN THEY WERE IN '91? A. NOT FOR THE MONOCULTURES. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1687 Q. NO, I MEAN CATTAILS IN GENERAL. A. I THINK DEPENDING ON -- I DON'T THINK THE CATEGORIES WERE -- THAT WAS A CONCERN OF MINE, IS THAT THE SURVEYS WERE DONE UNDER DIFFERENT SETS OF CATEGORIES, AND SO IT WAS HARD TO COMPARE WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME PERCENTAGES, BUT THE -- I WASN'T VERY CONCERNED WITH THE -- WITH LIKE THE ONE PERCENT CATEGORY OF WHETHER OR NOT -- IN FACT, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING FROM MIKE THAT, IN FACT, THE '93 SURVEY WAS -- WAS DONE ON A LITTLE MORE RIGOROUS BASIS THAN '91, AND SO WE WERE ABLE TO PICK UP IN THAT LOWER PERCENTAGE CATEGORY SOME MORE. THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD ME. Q. OKAY. BUT MY QUESTION IS, ISN'T IT A FACT THAT THE '93 MAP SHOWS A MUCH BROADER AREA OF CATTAIL THAN THE '91 MAP? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. NOT IN ALL CATEGORIES; I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE. I THINK IN THAT LOWER PERCENTAGE CATEGORY, THAT MAY BE TRUE. Q. I MEAN, IN ANY CATEGORY. A. I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE ACREAGE FIGURES. I DON'T REMEMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WHAT -- IT MAY BE, I JUST DON'T REMEMBER. Q. WELL, ARE YOU DRAWING ANY CONCLUSIONS FROM HIS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1688 WORK, OR DOES THAT JUST GIVE YOU A DEMONSTRATION, IF YOU WILL, OF SOMEBODY'S VIEWS OF WHAT'S HAPPENED TO CATTAILS? A. WELL, NO, I THINK IT'S -- I THINK IT'S A GOOD SURVEY. I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE MOST EXTENSIVE SURVEYS I'VE SEEN, AND I THINK IT'S REASONABLY -- REASONABLY ACCURATE, AND I THINK IT GIVES YOU -- LIKE I SAID, FOR MY PURPOSES, I WANTED TO KNOW WHERE THE CATTAIL MONOCULTURES WOULD BE, WHICH WOULD BE OF IMPORTANCE IN TERMS OF WHETHER THEY WERE EXPANDING OR NOT, AND IT GIVES ME AN IDEA OF WHERE THE CATTAIL EXTENTS ARE; SO, I THINK IT WILL BE USEFUL INFORMATION. I JUST DON'T HAPPEN TO REMEMBER THOSE NUMBERS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. SO I WILL BE USING THAT, BASICALLY, AS A INDICATION. I'M GOING TO BE COMPARING IT TO SOME OF MY WCA-2A DATA, FOR EXAMPLE, AND LOOKING AT THAT -- THOSE PERCENTAGES. Q. YOU INDICATED THAT HE SAID THE SECOND MAP WAS -- THE TESTING WAS MORE RIGOROUS, OR THE METHODS WERE MORE RIGOROUS. HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND THEY ARRIVED AT THOSE PERCENTAGES? A. I'M NOT SURE -- YOU MEAN THE CLASSES OF PERCENTAGES OR? Q. NO, THE PERCENTAGES; LIKE HOW DID THEY DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1689 DETERMINE THAT A PARTICULAR AREA WAS LESS THAN ONE PERCENT CATTAILS OR TWO PERCENT TO FIVE PERCENT CATTAILS? YOU KNOW, THERE WERE DIFFERENT GRADATIONS ON THAT MAP. HOW DID THEY --DO YOU KNOW HOW THEY DETERMINED -- HOW THEY DID THEIR SAMPLING TO MAKE THOSE DETERMINATIONS? A. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY DID A LOT OF THIS FROM HELICOPTER SURVEYS WITH SOME -- WITH SOME GROUND-TRUTHING, AND THAT THEY BASICALLY USED A -- THEY HAD A STANDARD PROCEDURE THEY USED -- WHICH I DON'T REMEMBER FOR THE MOMENT WHAT IT WAS -- BUT, I MEAN IT WAS BASICALLY LOOKING IN CERTAIN DIRECTIONS OVER CERTAIN LINES. I THINK THEY LANDED AND ACTUALLY TOOK SOME ACTUAL SURVEYS. Q. OKAY. THEY EYE-BALLED IT? A. I WOULDN'T SAY THEY EYE-BALLED IT. I THINK IT'S A -- IT'S A REASONABLE SURVEY. Q. OKAY. BUT, I MEAN, THEY DID IT BY LOOKING AT IT, LOOKING AT THE AREA? A. YEAH, I THOUGHT -- BUT I ALSO THOUGHT THERE WAS SOME GROUND-TRUTHING THAT THEY HAD INVOLVED WITH THAT. Q. AND WHAT WAS MORE RIGOROUS ABOUT THE '93 MAP AS COMPARED TO THE '91 MAP? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1690 A. I THINK THEY MADE MORE CATEGORIES IN '93, I THINK. AS I SAID, I -- I'VE ONLY RECENTLY RECEIVED THAT, SO I HAVEN'T SPENT THE TIME THAT I PROBABLY WILL IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT THAT; BUT I WAS CONCERNED TO TRY TO DETERMINE THE TOTAL -- AS SORT OF THE LANDSCAPING, WHAT'S THE TOTAL ACREAGE OF THE LARGE CATTAIL AREAS. AND I THINK I GAVE YOU A FIGURE THIS MORNING ROUGHLY OF WHAT THAT -- THOSE WERE. Q. YOU MEAN THE SIX, SEVEN KILOMETERS SOUTH OF THE CANAL? A. NO, THE -- THE WHOLE AREAS; ALL THE AREAS. Q. BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, UNDERSTANDING WHAT MR. GREEN SAID, AT THIS POINT, ARE YOU BASING ANY OF YOUR CONCLUSIONS ON ANY REMOTE-SENSING DATA? A. WELL, REMOTE-SENSING AND LOW-ANGLE ELEVATION DATA; AS MR. GREEN SAID, I PROBABLY WILL LOOK AT THIS OTHER DATA, AND THEN FROM THE--- Q. WHAT IS -- WHAT DO YOU MEAN "REMOTE-SENSING, LOW-ANGLE ELEVATION"? A. LOW ELEVATION? I GUESS IF YOU WANT TO CALL LOW-ELEVATION PHOTOGRAPHY REMOTE-SENSING, I GUESS YOU CAN PUT IT IN THAT--- Q. OH, YOU MEAN WHAT DENNIS DID? A. YES. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1691 Q. OH, OKAY. I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE GOING TO USE DENNIS' BUT ANY OTHER REMOTE SENSING? A. MR. GREEN -- I MAY SIMPLY--- Q. ASIDE FROM WHAT HE SAID HE MAY SHOW YOU. A. AND JUST USING AS A -- AS A BASELINE OR SOME BACKGROUND INFORMATION, I MAY RELY ON THE GENERAL CATEGORY, BUT NOT SPECIFIC ACREAGES AND SO FORTH. Q. ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU READ DR. JENSON'S WORK? A. I'VE SEEN A COPY OF HIS REPORT; I HAVEN'T REALLY -- I'VE LOOKED THROUGH THE PICTURES. I HAVE NOT REALLY--- Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THAT WORK? A. NOT JUST FROM FLIPPING THROUGH IT. I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE. MR. REID: WHAT TIME IS IT? MR. GREEN: TWO FORTY-FIVE. MR. REID: LET'S TAKE A BREAK; WHAT DO YOU SAY? (THEREUPON, A BREAK WAS TAKEN FROM 2:45 P.M. TO 3:14 P.M.) MR. REID: DR. RICHARDSON, LET'S MARK YOUR DUKE WETLAND CENTER ANNUAL REPORT, WHICH IS DATED DECEMBER '92, REVISED APRIL 1993, AS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1692 EXHIBIT TWO. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 2 - CURTIS J. RICHARDSON DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. DO YOU HAVE A COPY? A. NO. RICK HAS MY COPY, BUT YOU TWO CAN SHARE THAT COPY. THESE COPIES ARE -- I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY WE SENT OUT. WE HAVE -- THAT'S THE PREVIOUS REPORT. Q. THAT'S THE PREVIOUS ONE? A. THAT'S THE PREVIOUS ONE. Q. OKAY. AM I SAFE IN ASSUMING THAT ANY OPINIONS THAT YOU WOULD GIVE IN THIS CASE WOULD BE BASED UPON DATA THAT'S CONTAINED IN THE -- IN THE PROJECTS DESCRIBED IN EXHIBIT TWO HERE? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. ANY OPINIONS -- I WOULD HAVE OTHER DOCUMENTS BESIDES THIS. THERE ARE MORE RECENT PAPERS AND REPORTS AND OTHER THINGS THAT I WOULD RELY ON. BUT, CERTAINLY, AS IT RELATES TO THE EXPERIMENTS, A PORTION OF THE INFORMATION WILL COME FROM THIS DOCUMENT, AND OTHER RELATED DOCUMENTS AND PUBLICATIONS. Q. WELL, THE OTHER PUBLICATIONS WOULD STILL BE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1693 PRODUCED AS A RESULT OF THE WORK THAT WAS -- THAT'S REPORTED IN THIS EXHIBIT TWO; IS THAT CORRECT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. THEY WOULD BE THE ESSENCE OF SOME OF THAT. BUT, I MEAN, AS I SAID, WE'VE ALREADY PUBLISHED SOME. YOU HAVE THEM THAT ARE ALREADY UPDATED VERSIONS OF VARIOUS CHAPTERS OF THIS, AND WE WOULD, OF COURSE, PUT THE MOST RECENT INFORMATION WE HAVE IN ANYTHING WE WOULD PRODUCE POST THIS VOLUME SINCE THIS VOLUME IS NOW--- Q. A YEAR OLD? A. IT'S A YEAR OLD. THE DATABASE FOR THIS WOULD HAVE STOPPED IN DECEMBER. THERE WAS NO NEW DATA ADDED TO THIS IN THE REVISED APRIL OF '93 VERSION. IT WAS SIMPLY TYPOS AND CORRECTIONS, AND THERE WAS NO NEW DATA ADDED. Q. NOW, ON PAGE ROMAN NUMERAL XXII, YOU--- A. ROMAN NUMERAL XXII. Q. ---YOU HAVE THREE QUESTIONS OR THREE AREAS IN WHICH YOU FOCUSED YOUR RESEARCH. A. THAT'S CORRECT. WHERE THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY -- IS THAT WHAT--- Q. EXACTLY. SINCE THIS DOCUMENT WAS PRODUCED, HAVE THE AREAS OF RESEARCH CHANGED? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1694 A. IN GENERAL, THAT WOULD COVER THE RESEARCH THAT WAS FUNDED BY THE EPD. THE--- Q. I WANT TO SHOW YOU A QUARTERLY REPORT WHICH IS DATED JANUARY 1994. WE'LL MARK THIS AS EXHIBIT THREE. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO ABOVE WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 3 - CURTIS J. RICHARDSON DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) HAVE YOU SEEN THAT BEFORE? MR. GREEN: COUNSEL, DO YOU HAVE COPIES OF THESE? MR. REID: NO, I JUST HAVE MY COPY. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) MR. REID: I THINK YOUR LAWYER FOUND IT. HE HAS THE JANUARY QUARTERLY REPORT? MR. BURGESS: NOVEMBER 1 TO JANUARY 31? MR. REID: IS THAT THE SAME ONE? MR. BURGESS: YES. MR. REID: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) MY QUESTION IS, HAVE YOU SEEN EXHIBIT THREE BEFORE? A. I BELIEVE SO. IT LOOKS LIKE OUR QUARTERLY REPORT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1695 Q. NOW, I HAVE ALSO SEEN SOME LETTERS THAT SEEM TO BE GOING OUT ON A MONTHLY BASIS OR SO, BUT I DON'T FIND A LETTER ANY LATER THAN THAT QUARTERLY REPORT. DO YOU KNOW IF THERE HAS BEEN A LETTER SINCE THAT QUARTERLY REPORT? A. ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE MONTHLY -- I THINK WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS THE MONTHLY REPORTS? Q. MONTHLY -- MONTHLY UPDATE, I THINK. A. MONTHLY UPDATES OR SOMETHING. Q. I'M SORRY; I TAKE THAT BACK. THERE'S A FEBRUARY '94. A. RIGHT. MR. REID: LET ME GET THIS MARKED AS EXHIBIT FOUR. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO ABOVE WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 4 - CURTIS RICHARDSON DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) MR. BURGESS: DO YOU HAVE A BATES NUMBER ON THE BOTTOM OF THESE SO IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR ME? COURT REPORTER: 1309382. MR. REID: WHAT WAS THAT DATE, THE 14TH -- FEBRUARY 15. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1696 WITNESS: DO YOU JUST WANT ME TO IDENTIFY THIS? IS THAT WHAT--- MR. REID: YES, SIR. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I RECOGNIZE THIS AS A -- I DIDN'T SIGN THIS PARTICULAR ONE, BUT IT'S -- IT'S OUR FEBRUARY REPORT. DO YOU WANT IT BACK? Q. NOW -- YEAH, I WANT ALL -- BOTH OF THEM. NOW, WITH THESE THREE EXHIBITS, WOULD THIS GIVE US THE MOST CURRENT INFORMATION AS FAR AS REPORTING THAT DUKE WETLAND CENTER DOES WITH REGARD TO THE EPD GRANT? A. IT WOULD GIVE YOU SUMMARIES OF SOME OF THIS INFORMATION, YES; BUT EACH -- EACH QUARTERLY REPORT, THESE ARE NOT VERBATIM, SO -- AND, SO, THERE ARE -- AS VARIOUS ASPECTS OR HIGHLIGHTS ARE COMPLETED -- IN THE PREVIOUS ONES, THERE MAY BE A HIGHLIGHT HERE AND THERE OF INFORMATION, SO -- MY POINT BEING THOSE ARE NOT VERBATIM. THE OBJECTIVES ARE THE SAME, BUT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TO PERUSE THESE AND PIECE THESE TOGETHER TO COME UP WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PICTURE. MR. REID: ALL RIGHT. LET'S MARK EXHIBIT -- AS EXHIBIT 5, 6 AND 7 QUARTERLY REPORTS DATED MARCH '93, JULY '93 AND OCTOBER '93. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1697 (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO ABOVE WERE MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBITS 5, 6 AND 7 - CURTIS RICHARDSON DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) WOULD YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THESE, PLEASE, SIR? A. I'M DOING SO. Q. OKAY. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENTS.) A. OKAY. THEY ARE QUARTERLY REPORTS THAT -- WITH THE DATES THAT ARE STAMPED ON THEM. Q. NOW, WITH THE ADDITION OF THESE DOCUMENTS, WOULD WE HAVE AN UP-TO-DATE VERSION OF THE GRANT WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE FOR THE EPD? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. YOU WOULD -- YOU WOULD HAVE A SUMMARY OF SOME OF THE -- OF THE PROGRESS OF THOSE KEY POINTS. YOU WOULD HAVE -- YOU WOULD HAVE TO INCLUDE THE MOST RECENT PUBLICATIONS, WHICH I PROVIDED YOU; YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PAPERS THAT ARE IN PRESS, AND SOME PAPERS THAT WE PROVIDED YOU WITH SOME -- THERE ARE A FEW CHAPTERS THAT ARE, AT LEAST, IN THE DRAFT FORM FOR THE ANNUAL REPORT, AND WE PROVIDED THOSE FOR YOU, TOO. Q. YOU MEAN THE CURRENT -- THE ONE YOU'RE WORKING DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1698 ON FOR THIS--- A. CORRECT. Q. ---NEXT YEAR? A. CORRECT. Q. THERE ARE DRAFT CHAPTERS, YOU SAY? A. YES. Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHICH CHAPTERS WERE IN DRAFT, BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING ANYTHING IDENTIFIED AS PART OF AN ANNUAL REPORT? A. I DON'T -- I CAN'T SAY THAT THEY WERE IDENTIFIED AS AN ANNUAL REPORT, BUT I'M SAYING THAT THEY'RE -- EACH INVESTIGATOR -- THE WAY IN WHICH I WORK -- IS ASKED TO START TO COMPILE WHEN THEY CAN DO SO, FROM THE DATA THEY HAVE, TO PULL TOGETHER THEIR MOST RECENT DATA AND DRAFT A CHAPTER; AND I HAVE A FEW OF THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED. Q. WILL YOU KNOW AS WE GO THROUGH THIS WHICH ONES YOU HAVE? A. SURELY. Q. OKAY. CAN YOU JUST TELL ME RIGHT NOW LOOKING DOWN THE CHAPTER LIST WHICH ONES HAVE BEEN PREPARED IN DRAFT? A. WHICH CHAPTER LIST DO YOU MEAN? Q. IN THE ANNUAL REPORT. A. THERE WOULD BE SOME DIFFERENT CHAPTERS. I DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1699 MEAN, WE DON'T FOLLOW EVERY YEAR THE EXACT SAME CHAPTERS. Q. OKAY. A. THERE WOULD BE -- THERE WILL BE CHAPTERS UNDER THE GENERAL TOPICS. IN OTHER WORDS, THERE WILL BE SOME CHAPTERS UNDER "DOSING," AND THERE WOULD BE SOME CHAPTERS UNDER "GRADIENT," AND THERE WOULD BE SOME CHAPTERS UNDER "VARIOUS EXPERIMENTS." Q. NOW, AS FAR AS PUBLICATIONS, THOSE ARE LISTED, ARE THEY NOT, IN THESE QUARTERLY UPDATES? ANY PUBLICATIONS THAT HAVE OCCURRED? A. I BELIEVE THEY ARE. Q. OKAY. SO, THAT'S HOW I COULD FIND OUT WHAT PUBLICATIONS SHOULD BE READ? A. YES. Q. HOW WOULD I KNOW ABOUT PUBLICATIONS IN PROCESS? A. WELL, AS I SAID, WE HAVE -- SOME OF THE CHAPTERS THAT WE -- SOME OF THE CHAPTERS -- ALMOST ALL THE CHAPTERS -- AND I'M NOT SAYING ALL OF THEM, BUT SOME OF THE CHAPTERS IN THE ANNUAL REPORTS HAVE -- IF YOU LOOK AT THEM CAREFULLY, YOU SEE THAT -- WHAT THE FINAL MANUSCRIPT SAID HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED AND SO FORTH. THAT'S WHAT THEY TURN OUT TO BE. IN OTHER WORDS, WE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1700 WRITE A CHAPTER, AND IF THE DATA ARE SUFFICIENT, WE WOULD THEN MAKE THAT INTO A MANUSCRIPT FORM--- Q. OKAY. A. ---AND I BELIEVE THERE ARE REFERENCES IN SEVERAL PLACES THAT SAY "MANUSCRIPT IN PREPARATION" OR "MANUSCRIPT IN REVIEW" AND SO FORTH. Q. IN THE CASE -- THE SWIM CHALLENGE PROCEEDING, DO YOU INTEND TO TESTIFY WITH REGARD TO THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF INCREASED NUTRIENTS AND WATER INPUTS ON THE NATIVE PLANT AND ANIMAL COMMUNITIES IN THE WCA'S? MR. BURGESS: ARE YOU READING FROM AN EXHIBIT, COUNSEL? MR. REID: YES. MR. BURGESS: WHICH EXHIBIT? MR. REID: IT'S IN ALL OF THEM. MR. BURGESS: AND CAN YOU REFER THE WITNESS? MR. REID: WELL, I DID PREVIOUSLY. A. YES, I'LL HAVE AN OPINION ON THAT. Q. (BY MR. REID) WILL YOU ALSO HAVE AN OPINION AS TO WHAT IS THE LONG-TERM NUTRIENT STORAGE CAPACITY OF THE WCA'S? A. I WOULD HAVE AN OPINION ON THAT. Q. AND WILL YOU HAVE AN OPINION REGARDING HOW CAN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1701 WATER MANAGEMENT IN THE WCA'S BE IMPROVED TO MAINTAIN NATURAL COMMUNITIES? A. AND I'LL HAVE AN OPINION ON THAT. Q. NOW, DO YOU HAVE FINAL OPINIONS WITH REGARD TO EACH OF THOSE THREE AREAS AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY? A. I THINK WE WENT THROUGH THAT FOR THE LAST DAY AND A HALF. Q. I UNDERSTAND. MY QUESTION IS, DO YOU HAVE FINAL OPINIONS ON THESE THREE DELINEATED OPINIONS? A. I WILL HAVE -- I HAVE OPINIONS THAT, YEAH -- NOW, THEY MAY BE SLIGHTLY MODIFIED, BUT I HAVE PULLED TOGETHER MOST OF THE INFORMATION THAT I WOULD NEED TO HAVE SOME OPINIONS. Q. AND WOULD THE BASIS FOR THESE OPINIONS BE THE RESEARCH PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN UNDERTAKEN AS PART OF THIS GRANT, THE DATA THAT CAME FROM THOSE? A. TO A LARGE DEGREE, BUT THERE WOULD BE OTHER DATA THAT I WOULD BRING IN -- SOME DISTRICT DATA, SOME OTHER PUBLISHED DATA, SOME SUPPORTING SCIENTISTS DATA. Q. OKAY. LET'S LOOK AT PAGE TWENTY-THREE, ROMAN NUMERAL XXIII. AT THE TOP, IT'S BEGINNING OF THE DISCUSSION OF GENERAL OBJECTIVE ONE, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH THE FIRST OF THE THREE OPINION AREAS THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. DO YOU SEE THAT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1702 A. GENERAL OBJECTIVE ONE? Q. YES, SIR. A. OKAY. Q. OKAY. NOW, THE FIRST THING THAT'S MENTIONED IS A FERTILIZER STUDY--- A. CORRECT. Q. ---IS THAT THE FIRST -- IS THAT THE SAME FERTILIZER STUDY THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS MORNING? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND HAS THAT STUDY BEEN COMPLETED TO THE POINT THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE MAKING FINAL OPINIONS OR CONCLUSIONS? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. ASKED AND ANSWERED. A. WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THAT THIS MORNING, I SAID WE HAD DATA SUMMARIZED UP TO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE THIRD YEAR; AND FROM THAT, I CAN MAKE SOME INFERENCES AND HAVE FINAL OPINIONS, WHICH I GAVE YOU EARLIER, AS TO WHAT IT SHOWS AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME. Q. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT THESE -- STRIKE THAT. ON PAGE XXIII AND THEREAFTER, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ITEMS LISTED, NUMBERS ONE, TWO, THREE AND SO FORTH. DO YOU SEE THOSE? A. UH-HUH (YES). DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1703 Q. ARE THESE CONCLUSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN DRAWN BY SOMEONE WORKING ON THIS PROJECT BASED ON THE FERTILIZER STUDY LISTED AT THE TOP? A. THIS IS -- THIS IS A SUMMARY PULLED TOGETHER BY DR. CRAFT AND MYSELF. Q. OKAY. ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE OPINIONS THAT ARE EXPRESSED NUMBERED ONE THROUGH TWELVE? MR. BURGESS: TAKE YOUR TIME AND READ THEM IF YOU NEED TO, CURT. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. AFTER READING THESE, I THINK, IN GENERAL, THEY SUMMARIZE AND GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF SOME OF THE KEY POINTS, WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF NUMBER SEVEN, WHICH I'M NOT SURE IT'S CLEARLY STATED AS TO WHAT THE NUMBER OF SPECIES ARE. I'D HAVE TO LOOK BACK AT THE DATA. I THINK THEY'RE REFERRING -- I'M NOT SURE, I'D HAVE TO GO BACK -- AND, AFTER REVIEWING THAT, I WOULD ADD THE NAME OF DR. JAN VYMAZAL, WHO DID THE PERIPHYTON WORK ON THIS COMPONENT. THIS IS A -- UNDER THIS CATEGORY, THIS IS A SUMMARY, REALLY, OF -- I HAVE TO GO BACK AND CHECK. YEAH, IT SAYS DR. CRAFT, DR. RICHARDSON, DR. VYMAZAL. THERE WERE THREE OF US WHO WERE PRIMARILY WORKING ON THAT PART OF THE FERTILIZER STUDY AND MAYBE A STUDENT; DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1704 BUT UP TO THAT TIME PERIOD, THAT WAS A REPRESENTATION, AND THIS -- THOSE POINTS WOULD BE SORT OF A GENERAL OVERVIEW OF SOME OF THE STUFF. Q. ALL RIGHT. NOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THE FERTILIZER STUDY THIS MORNING; BUT, AT THAT TIME, I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO DESCRIBE THE METHODOLOGY. COULD YOU DO THAT FOR ME NOW, PLEASE? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE METHODOLOGY? Q. WHERE IT WAS DONE AND HOW IT WAS SET UP. A. IT'S OUTLINED PRETTY -- IN PRETTY MUCH DETAIL IN, I THINK -- IT WOULD BE THIS REPORT AND THIS REPORT (WITNESS MOTIONING), BUT I WILL GIVE YOU A THUMB-NAIL SKETCH OF IT--- MR. BURGESS: JUST FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS IS REFERRING TO EXHIBIT TWO, DECEMBER '92 ANNUAL REPORT REVISED IN '93, APRIL OF '93? MR. REID: AND ITS PREDECESSOR. WITNESS: AND THE PREDECESSOR TO THAT. MR. REID: OKAY. A. ---ESSENTIALLY, THE PLOTS WERE SET UP. THERE WERE TWENTY-SEVEN PLOTS PER SITE. THERE WERE THREE SITES IN WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2B. ONE WAS A PURE MONOCULTURE OF SAWGRASS, REASONABLY HEALTHY STAND. THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1705 SECOND SITE WAS A MIXED SITE WITH ABOUT FIVE PERCENT, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LESS IN PLACES, OF CATTAIL AND SAWGRASS. Q. FIVE PERCENT WAS CATTAIL AND THE REST WAS SAWGRASS? A. IN THE PLOTS THAT WERE SELECTED. Q. IN THE SECOND PLOT, OKAY. A. THE SECOND AND THE MIXED SITE. THE THIRD ONE WAS A SLOUGH COMMUNITY. THESE ARE ALL ALONG THE DIKE -- SOUTH OF THE DIKE OF WC -- IT SEPARATES WCA-2A FROM WCA-2B. THE PLOTS WERE ESTABLISHED ON A RANDOM BASIS WITH UNWALLED CONTROLS. CONTROLS YOU REPLICATED THREE TIMES. LOW NITROGEN, LOW PHOSPHOROUS, HIGH NITROGEN -- WE DOUBLE-CHECKED THAT -- AND HIGH PHOSPHOROUS. Q. IT'S A LITTLE CONFUSING THE WAY YOU'RE SAYING THAT. A. WELL, I'M GOING TO TRY TO CLARIFY IT FOR YOU IN A SECOND. Q. OKAY. YOU HAD NINE PLOTS WITHIN EACH SITE? NO, I'M SORRY. YOU HAD TWENTY-SEVEN PLOTS WITHIN EACH OF THE THREE SITES? A. RIGHT. I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS SO YOU CAN -- SO YOU CAN FOLLOW A LITTLE MORE CAREFULLY. JUST DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1706 GIVE ME A MOMENT HERE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. IF YOU'LL TURN TO PAGE FOURTEEN -- SINCE IT WILL BE AN EASY WAY TO DO THIS -- IF YOU TURN TO PAGE FOURTEEN IN THE--- MR. BURGESS: EXHIBIT TWO. A. ---EXHIBIT TWO, YOU WILL SEE WCA-2B. YOU WILL SEE THERE ARE THREE CIRCLES THAT ARE RELATED TO -- IT SAYS "SAWGRASS," "SAWGRASS-CATTAIL MIXTURE" AND "SLOUGH." THOSE ARE THE LOCATIONS OF THE SITES. Q. OKAY. A. IF YOU TURN TO TABLE 1-1 AND LOOK, ALSO, ON THE PRECEDING PAPER -- PAGE, BUT WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT IN A MOMENT -- SEVEN FERTILIZER TREATMENTS; LOW, MEDIUM AND HIGH PHOSPHOROUS; MEDIUM AND HIGH NITROGEN; AND MEDIUM AND HIGH N+P. YOU CAN SEE THE RATES -- THE RATA THERE. THERE WERE TWO CONTROLS, ONE WITHOUT SIDES, ONE WITH SIDES. LOOK AT THE WALLED EFFECT. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THERE WERE SERIES OF PLOTS THAT HAD NO NITROGEN, SERIES OF PLOTS THAT HAD NO PHOSPHOROUS, SERIES OF PLOTS THAT HAD NOTHING ADDED TO THEM, AND THEN A COMBINATION OF PLOTS THAT HAD BOTH NITROGEN AND -- MEDIUM NITROGEN PLUS PHOSPHOROUS AND HIGH NITROGEN PLUS PHOSPHOROUS, SO THOSE, IF YOU GO THROUGH DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1707 THE COMBINATIONS, WILL END UP RESULTING IN ROUGHLY THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PLOTS. Q. OKAY. A. TWENTY-SEVEN TWO-BY-TWO METER PLOTS, NINE TREATMENTS, THREE REPLICATES. Q. WHAT WAS THE BACKGROUND-SOIL LEVEL AS FAR AS PHOSPHOROUS GOES--- MR. GREEN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. Q. ---IN THIS SITE? A. YEAH, I THOUGHT -- I THOUGHT WE DISCUSSED IT. I'M DOING IT FROM -- FROM MEMORY NOW, BUT WE--- Q. I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT THE DOSING STUDY, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE FERTILIZER STUDY. A. WELL, REGARDLESS OF THAT, I'M PRETTY SURE WE DID. BUT, IN ANY CASE, THE BACKGROUND LEVEL OF THESE SITES -- THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION -- I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER -- BUT I THINK THEY'RE IN THE FIVE HUNDRED RANGE, SIX HUNDRED RANGE, SOMEWHERE IN THERE. Q. IN THE SOIL? A. IN THE SOIL, MICROGRAMS PER GRAM. Q. AND HOW MUCH IN THE WATER? A. THE WATER COLUMNS WHICH WE CHECKED INITIALLY DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1708 WERE IN THE TEN TO TWENTY RANGE -- SOMETIMES LOWER, SOMETIMES HIGHER, SOMEWHERE IN THERE, THAT WERE CONSIDERED. Q. PARTS PER BILLION? A. PARTS PER BILLION, TOTAL PHOSPHOROUS. Q. WHAT WAS THE HYDROLOGY OF THE AREA LIKE? A. IF YOU TURN TO PAGE FIFTEEN, THIS GIVES YOU DATA UP THROUGH '92, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT REPRESENTATIVE. YOU CAN SEE THE WATER LEVEL CENTIMETERS ABOVE THE SOIL SURFACE. THESE ARE MONTHLY MEANS. YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE BLACK SQUARES THAT, ESSENTIALLY, WE RUN FIVE TO ROUGHLY TEN CENTIMETERS ABOVE THE SOIL SURFACE FOR THE SAWGRASS SITE. THERE IS SOME SEASONAL PATTERN, BUT IT'S GENERALLY -- THERE'S A PERIOD, I THINK ONCE IN THERE, YOU CAN SEE IT DROP, BASICALLY, TO SURFACE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE SLOUGH SITE, YOU CAN SEE THERE IS A BIT MORE OSCILLATION, WHICH IS THE DIAMONDS. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT, IN FACT, WE RUN FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AROUND TWENTY CENTIMETERS, AND THEN IT GOES UP INTO THE THIRTY-CENTIMETER RANGE, THEN BACK DOWN INTO THE TWENTY TO TWENTY-FIVE CENTIMETER RANGE. THE MIXED SITE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME IS ALSO MATCHED WITH THE SAWGRASS SITE, AND THEN IT OSCILLATES AND WE ESSENTIALLY GO ABOVE THIRTY, BELOW, ABOVE. IT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1709 HAS MORE -- THIS IS THE ONE THAT'S CLOSEST TO THE S1/46 GATE; AND, SO, AS THE DISTRICT OPENS AND CLOSES THAT GATE, THE WATER LEVELS IN THERE HAVE CHANGED. THEY CHANGE QUITE A BIT AND HAVE CONTINUED TO DO SO; IN MORE RECENT YEARS, THEY'VE OSCILLATED EVEN MORE. Q. NOW, DESCRIBE FOR ME HOW THE PHOSPHOROUS WAS INTRODUCED TO THE PLOTS. A. THE PHOSPHOROUS WAS INTRODUCED BY GRANULAR FORM. IN BOTH CASES, WE APPLIED THIS IN SORT OF A SAND. WE BASICALLY USED SAND. AND WE WEIGHED OUT THESE -- THESE STANDARD AMOUNTS BY MASS; AND, THEN, SO THAT WE COULD GET MORE EVEN DISTRIBUTION, WE PUT THIS INTO A SAND, A WASHED SAND BASE, SO THAT YOU BASICALLY SPREAD THIS, AND IT BASICALLY WAS APPLIED AS EVENLY AS POSSIBLE OVER THE SURFACE OF THE TWO-BY-TWO METER PLOTS. Q. WERE YOU ATTEMPTING TO CREATE ANY PARTICULAR CONCENTRATION OR WERE YOU JUST KEEPING UP WITH LOADS? A. PRIMARILY, WE WERE TRYING TO -- AS I SAID, THIS WAS A LOADING EXPERIMENT. WE PRIMARILY WERE TRYING TO LOAD AND SEE THE EFFECTS OF INCREASING THE PHOSPHOROUS LOAD TO THE SOILS AND TO THAT COMMUNITY TO SEE WHAT RESPONSE WE WOULD HAVE. WE DID DO SOME PRELIMINARY ANALYSES OF THE -- OF THE SURFACE WATER DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1710 PHOSPHOROUS CONCENTRATION IMMEDIATELY AFTER LOADS TO SEE IF WE WERE GETTING RESPONSE IN THE WATER COLUMN, WHICH WE WERE. Q. WHERE WOULD THE WATER COLUMN DATA BE THAT YOU MENTIONED? WOULD IT BE IN THIS REPORT OR SOMEWHERE ELSE? A. IT WAS TURNED OVER IN ALL THE FILES WE HAD. I'M NOT SURE IF DR. CRAFT PRODUCED -- I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK -- IF HE PRODUCED -- SINCE THIS -- THE PURPOSE OF THIS WAS NOT TO MAINTAIN A PHOSPHOROUS CONCENTRATION. LET ME TAKE A LOOK HERE. I DON'T KNOW IF HE MENTIONED IT OR TALKED ABOUT IT IN THIS PARTICULAR REPORT OR NOT, BUT WE -- WE MEASURED WATER CONCENTRATIONS FOR A FAIRLY LONG PERIOD OF TIME, I THINK EVEN AFTER -- BEFORE WE -- I THINK BEFORE WE STARTED TREATMENT, AND WE'VE DONE IT ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS AFTERWARDS TO DETERMINE IF, IN FACT, WE WERE GETTING ELEVATED PHOSPHOROUS CONCENTRATIONS AFTER THE FERTILIZER, BUT I'M SURE YOU HAVE THE DATA; DR. CRAFT TURNED OVER ALL THAT. Q. WELL, MY QUESTION WASN'T WHETHER IT WAS TURNED OVER. MY QUESTION WAS DOES IT APPEAR IN THIS REPORT OR IN AN APPENDIX TO THE REPORT? A. IT PROBABLY -- I COULDN'T TELL YOU. I WOULD DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1711 HAVE TO LOOK AT THE APPENDIX. I DON'T REMEMBER. I KNOW WE MADE SOME PRESENTATIONS AND -- SLIDE PRESENTATIONS, AND IT WAS COMPILED; BECAUSE SEVERAL TIMES I HAVE ACTUALLY GIVEN -- GIVEN SOME INFORMATION ON THIS FERTILIZER STUDY, AND I THINK YOU HAVE DR. CRAFT'S SLIDES, TOO; AND I DO RECALL THAT, IN FACT, THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE OR TWO SLIDES WHERE WE COMPILED PHOSPHOROUS CONCENTRATIONS IN THE WATER COLUMN FOR THESE PLOTS. Q. WELL, LOOKING AGAIN AT PAGE XXIII, ROMAN NUMERAL, ITEM NUMBER ONE UNDER "PLANT RESPONSES;" SEE THAT? A. ITEM NUMBER ONE. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FIGURES? Q. NO, ROMAN NUMERAL XXIII. A. OH, ON PAGE XXIII; SORRY. Q. YEAH. PAGE--- A. ROMAN NUMERAL XXIII? Q. YEAH. A. OKAY. Q. NUMBER ONE. WHAT -- IS THERE ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT IN THAT FINDING TO YOU? A. NUMBER ONE? Q. YES. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1712 A. IN OTHER WORDS, THE ONE THAT READS "SHORT-TERM"--- Q. THAT ONE, CORRECT. A. ---"PHOSPHOROUS ADDITIONS THAT WERE RAISED TO POINT SIX, ONE POINT TWO, RESULTED IN NO CHANGE IN P-UPTAKE BY EMERGENT VEGETATION; BUT ADDITIONS OF FOUR POINT EIGHT GRASS METER SQUARED RESULTED IN A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN P-UPTAKE BY EMERGENT VEGETATION." IT MEANS, AT SOME LOADS, THERE WAS NO RESPONSE IN THE MACROPHYTES, AND YOU QUITE OFTEN DON'T FIND THAT IN MACROPHYTES. I MEAN, I'VE DONE STUDIES FOR YEARS AT HOUGHTON LAKE AND OTHER PLACES WHERE YOU ADD NUTRIENTS. AND WE DID A STUDY, IN FACT, ONE OF THE FIRST ONES IN THE '70'S, WE PUT FERTILIZER ON FOR OVER A WHOLE YEAR AND COULDN'T FIND IT. WE PUT IT ON FOR OVER A YEAR, AND THE MACROPHYTES ARE VERY SLOW TO RESPOND. IT TURNS OUT THAT THE PHOSPHOROUS GOES SOMEWHERE ELSE. Q. WHERE DOES IT GO? A. WELL, IT GOES INTO -- DEPENDING ON WHAT COMMUNITY YOU'RE IN, IT GOES INTO OTHER ORGANISMS, IT GOES INTO THE LITTER COMPARTMENT, COULD PRECIPITATE OUT, COULD BE ADSORBED THROUGH THE SOIL PHOSPHOROUS. Q. SO, WHAT YOU FOUND HERE WAS THAT LOWER RATES DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1713 OF ADDITION OF PHOSPHOROUS RESULTED IN NO CHANGE IN THE UPTAKE RATES? A. OF -- ON THE FIRST YEAR. Q. BUT HIGHER LEVELS -- GREATER LOADINGS DID RESULT IN SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN PHOSPHOROUS UPTAKE? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCLUSION WITH REGARD TO THE ECOSYSTEM, THE IMPACT ON THE ECOSYSTEM, BASED UPON THAT FINDING? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO FORM. A. IT SUGGESTS TO ME THAT IF YOU PUT ON SUFFICIENT PHOSPHOROUS, YOU CAN GET THE PLANTS TO GROW BIGGER; AND IF YOU PUT ON -- WE WERE LOOKING AT THOSE -- THOSE LOADS WERE CONSIDERED REPRESENTATIVE OF THE LOADS THAT -- THEY WERE NOT PICKED RANDOMLY. THE REASON THAT IT'S POINT SIX, ONE POINT TWO, FOUR POINT EIGHT, THOSE WERE PICKED SO THAT WE COULD GET SOME RANGE OF THE LOADS THAT THE PLANTS MIGHT BE SUBJECTED TO, THE POINT SIX BEING APPROXIMATELY WHAT'S GOING INTO THE NORTHERN END OF WCA-2A ON A PER-UNIT AREA BASIS, AND THEN WE TRY TO DOUBLE THAT, AND THEN INCREASE IT SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE THAT. SO, WE WOULD EX -- WE WERE DOING THIS TYPE OF FERTILIZER EXPERIMENTS. MY EXPERIENCE IS THAT YOU NEED TO LOAD THEM UP JUST TO DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1714 MAKE SURE YOU CAN SOME RESPONSE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO DETERMINE WHERE THE LOAD LINE MIGHT BE IN A SENSE, OR IF THERE'S SOME INFORMATION THAT COULD BE USEFUL. Q. OKAY. LOOK AT CONCLUSION NUMBER TWO. A. "INCREASE P UPTAKE DOES NOT TRANSLATE" -- OKAY. Q. WHAT'S SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THAT? A. WELL, IT SAYS, BY AND LARGE, THAT PHOSPHOROUS IN THE FIRST YEAR DID NOT RESULT IN INCREASED P UPTAKE, FOR THE MOST PART, AND THAT AFTER THE FIRST YEAR, THERE WAS NO INCREASE IN CATTAIL IN THE FERTILIZER PLOTS. Q. WHAT'S SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THAT TO YOU, ANYTHING? A. WELL, IF THE HYPOTHESIS WHICH WE SET FORTH WAS THAT PHOSPHOROUS WOULD RESULT -- SOME PEOPLE HAVE STATED THAT IN -- WITH SUFFICIENT LOADS TO THE AREA, THAT WITHIN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, YOU BEGIN TO SEE CATTAIL INVASION. AND, REMEMBER THIS PROJECT -- WE WENT THROUGH YESTERDAY IN GREAT DETAIL -- ONE OF THE PURPOSES OF THIS PROJECT WAS TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT, IN FACT, PHOSPHOROUS LOADS -- AT LEAST IN ONE OF THESE SITES -- BECAUSE THERE ARE THREE SEPARATE EXPERIMENTS SET UP HERE -- WOULD RESULT IN EITHER THE INTRODUCTION OR THE INITIATION OF CATTAIL; AND THEN THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1715 OTHER ONE WAS, BASICALLY, TO SEE WHAT THIS WOULD DO TO SAWGRASS AND THE OTHER PLANT COMMUNITIES. SO, IT GIVES ME SOME INFORMATION ON THAT. Q. HAVE YOU REACHED A FINAL CONCLUSION BASED ON THESE TWELVE SPECIFIC FINDINGS IN THE FERTILIZER STUDY? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORMAT; ASKED AND ANSWERED. A. WELL, THIS AND THE MORE CURRENT INFORMATION THAT WE PROVIDED YOU. AS I SAID YESTERDAY, WE NOW ARE GOING INTO OUR FOURTH YEAR. WE HAVE -- MY DISCUSSIONS WITH DR. CRAFT, WE ARE NOW -- HE IS NOW CURRENTLY WORKING ON THE CHAPTER FOR THIS -- HE'S COMPILING THE DATA TO PUT THIS -- PUT THIS TOGETHER, AND WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS ON THIS COMPONENT. AND, SO, WITH THAT INFORMATION AND WHAT'S HERE AND -- MY OPINIONS WERE, AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY, THAT ONE, AT THE PURE MONOCULTURE SITE, WE HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED ANY INTRODUCTION OF CATTAIL. Q. IN THE DOSING STUDY? A. IN THE FERTILIZER STUDY. Q. OKAY. A MINUTE AGO, YOU SAID -- THE POINT SIX, I THOUGHT YOU SAID, REPRESENTED THE LOAD GOING IN NORTHERN 2A. DID YOU MEAN THAT OR DID YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT THAT'S THE LONG-TERM STORAGE RATE OF THE SOILS IN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1716 THAT AREA? A. NO. MY RECOLLECTION IS -- AND I HAVE TO GO BACK -- AND I THINK I CALCULATED ONE TIME; IF YOU LOOKED AT THE NUTRIENT-ENRICHED AREA AND DISTRIBUTED THE WATER -- AS AN ESTIMATE -- THAT -- THAT, ESSENTIALLY, THAT REGION HAS BEEN RECEIVING ON AVERAGE AROUND POINT SIX, I BELIEVE, GRAMS PER METER SQUARED. I BELIEVE -- THAT MAY BE A LITTLE LESS THAN--- Q. SO, YOU DID MEAN THAT AS A DESCRIPTION OF A LOAD? A. ON A UNIT BASIS. Q. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. NOW, NUMBER THREE, YOU NOTED A DECREASE IN THE STANDING CROP BIOMASS OF THE PERIPHYTON MAT. A. I'M SORRY? Q. OF THE PERIPHYTON MAT -- NUMBER THREE. A. I'M SORRY. REPEAT THE QUESTION. Q. YEAH, I JUST WAS PARAPHRASING NUMBER THREE. WOULD YOU READ NUMBER THREE TO YOURSELF? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. RIGHT. THIS IS -- THIS IS ONE OF OUR FINDINGS. Q. DOES THAT INDICATE THAT THE PHOSPHOROUS IS HAVING AN IMPACT ON THE ECOSYSTEM AT THAT POINT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1717 A. IT APPEARS FROM THAT LOAD THAT, IN FACT, WHAT THE PHOSPHOROUS IS RESULTING IN IS -- I THINK SPECIFICALLY, IF YOU READ THE DOCUMENT, YOU WILL FIND THAT YOUR UTRICULARIA DECREASED. THE PERIPHYTON MAT BROKE UP AT THAT PARTICULAR LOADING. Q. AND THAT WOULD BE AN IMPACT ON THE ECOSYSTEM? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. THAT WOULD BE A CHANGE -- THAT WOULD BE A CHANGE IN AN ECOSYSTEM, YES. Q. AND THAT'S OBSERVED IN THE PERIPHYTON? A. WELL, THAT'S WHAT WAS OBSERVED BY DR. VYMAZAL, IN THAT PARTICULAR COMPONENT, YES, AT THAT LOAD--- Q. NOW--- A. ---THAT'S A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANTLY HIGH LOAD. Q. AND WE'RE JUST TALKING AT THIS POINT ABOUT ONE YEAR OF ADDITIONS, CORRECT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW IF SUBSEQUENT RESEARCH HAS CHANGED ANY OF THIS -- OR, SUBSEQUENT ANALYSIS OF DATA HAS CHANGED ANY OF THESE FINDINGS? A. ANY OF WHICH FINDINGS? Q. ANY THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT SO FAR REGARDING--- A. ONE, TWO AND THREE? Q. ANY WITH REGARD TO THE FERTILIZER STUDY. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1718 MR. BURGESS: ONE THROUGH TWELVE? MR. REID: YEAH. A. WELL, I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK THROUGH AND -- LET'S SEE. Q. WELL, DON'T DO THAT NOW. WE'LL GO THROUGH THEM INDIVIDUALLY. AT THIS POINT, THERE'S BEEN AT LEAST ONE MORE YEAR OF THE FERTILIZER STUDY; IS THAT CORRECT? A. THERE IS THE SECOND YEAR OF THE FERTILIZER STUDY, SOME HIGHLIGHTS WHICH HAVE BEEN, I THINK, GIVEN IN THE QUARTERLY REPORTS. THERE -- THAT DATA IN ANALYSIS -- AS I SAID, IS IN ANALYSIS AS WE SPEAK. AND THE THIRD YEAR -- IT'S ACTUALLY IN THE COMPILATION STAGE -- THE THIRD YEAR HAS ALL BEEN COLLECTED, AND IT'S BEING ANALYZED IN THE LABORATORY. WE ARE CONTINUING THIS. Q. OKAY. HOW MANY MONTHS OF ADDITIONAL DATA WILL THE NEXT ANNUAL REPORT HAVE, THE ONE YOU'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW? A. IT WILL HAVE THE SECOND YEAR. Q. IT WILL GO THROUGH DECEMBER OF '93? A. NO, I BELIEVE THIS WOULD BE -- LET ME GO BACK AND CHECK THE DATES OF THIS. IT TAKES ALMOST ONE YEAR TO ANALYZE ALL THIS DATA -- THE SOILS, THE VEGETATION, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1719 ABOVE-, BELOWGROUND. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THESE COMMUNITIES WERE ESTABLISHED IN THE SUMMER OF 1990 -- OKAY -- SO -- SUMMER OF 1990 -- SO, ESSENTIALLY, THIS ANNUAL REPORT WILL HAVE 1991 AND 1992, THE ONE THAT'S BEING PRODUCED NOW. THE 1993 DATA IS BEING ANALYZED AS WE SPEAK. THAT IS -- FIRST -- YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE OF THIS, BUT SOME OF THE SCIENTISTS HERE MIGHT APPRECIATE THIS EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT DO ALL THESE ANALYSES, BUT I THINK THEY HAVE AN APPRECIATION FOR IT -- IS, YOU COLLECT THE DATA IN THE FIELD AND SOMETIMES -- WELL, THAT'S DIFFICULT. THAT'S NOT THE END OF IT. YOU HAVE MONTHS OF GRINDING AND ANALYSIS AND WEIGHING AND TRYING TO PULL THAT TOGETHER; AND THEN YOU HAVE TO PLACE IT IN THE COMPUTER FILES; THEN YOU HAVE TO BASICALLY STATISTICALLY ANALYZE IT; THEN YOU HAVE TO DRAW UP THE FIGURES AND TABLES AND GRAPHS; THEN YOU HAVE TO COMPARE THIS; AND THEN YOU HAVE TO COMPILE IT WITH THE PREVIOUS YEAR. SO, THIS IS A -- AND THIS IS NOT -- THIS IS ONLY ONE OF OUR EXPERIMENTS, SO THIS IS A FAIRLY LABORIOUS PROCESS, AND--- Q. ALL RIGHT. LET ME UNDERSTAND, THEN. THE REPORT THAT'S MARKED AS EXHIBIT TWO REPORTED ON DATA DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1720 THAT WAS GATHERED IN WHAT TIME FRAME? A. IT WAS DATA THAT WAS ANALYZED AND AVAILABLE UP THROUGH, I THINK -- WELL, OBVIOUSLY, YOU CAN TELL, FOR EXAMPLE, HERE, THE LAST WATER DATA THAT WAS PUT IN WAS SEPTEMBER OF '92; SO, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WAS ANYMORE DATA IN THIS REPORT. AND I THINK THE LAST BIT OF DATA WE PUT IN -- WELL, IT SAYS DECEMBER '92. AS I SAID, THERE WOULD BE NO NEW DATA ADDED AFTER DECEMBER '92. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY SCRAP OF DATA THAT EXISTS IN THE TECHNICIAN'S LAB IS IN THIS REPORT BECAUSE IT HADN'T BEEN ANALYZED. I MEAN, WE PUT WHAT WE HAD AT THAT POINT, AND THAT'S AS FAR AS WE COULD GO. Q. SO, THESE FINDINGS THAT WE'RE READING RIGHT HERE ARE ALL FINDINGS THAT WERE BASED ON DATA THAT HAD BEEN GATHERED PRIOR TO DECEMBER OF '92? A. YES, UP TO SOME POINT. BUT FOR VARIOUS COMPONENTS, THEY WOULD HAVE STOPPED. FOR EXAMPLE, I BELIEVE THE VEGETATION RESPONSE IS ONE YEAR AFTER INITIATION OF THE FERTILIZER TREATMENTS. THIS IS THE DAY YOU HAVE. YOU HAVE -- FOR THE MACROPHYTES, YOU HAVE ONE YEAR OF DATA. Q. OKAY. AND THE ANNUAL REPORT THAT'S BEING DONE NOW, WHAT WILL THE CUTOFF DATE FOR THAT DATA BE? A. WE WILL SUMMARIZE THE SECOND YEAR OF DATA. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1721 Q. THAT WILL BE DATA UP THROUGH JANUARY -- I MEAN, DECEMBER OF '93? A. '93, CORRECT. THAT'S -- THAT'S FOR THE MAJOR COMPONENTS. I MEAN, THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE MORE READILY AVAILABLE. WE CAN PUT IN -- FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE HAVE WATER LEVELS, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO CONTINUE THAT. WE'RE TRYING NOW TO BASICALLY PUT OUT SORT OF A YEARLY ANALYSIS. THAT'S WHAT WE -- WHY WE GOT ON THIS, SO WE COULD DO THAT. Q. AND IT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE DATA THAT IS BEING USED TO COMPILE THE NEXT ANNUAL REPORT WAS TURNED OVER AS PART OF THE PRODUCTION? A. I BELIEVE SO. Q. OKAY. AND DO YOU KNOW IF THERE HAVE BEEN ANY PAPERS OR MEMOS PREPARED BY ANYBODY WHICH SUMMARIZES OR WRITES UP ANY OF THIS DATA? A. I BELIEVE DR. CRAFT MAY BE WORKING ON SOMETHING RELATED TO THAT. Q. I MEAN, HAS THERE BEEN A PAPER PREPARED--- A. I HAVEN'T SEEN A PAPER. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU'VE NOT SEEN ANYTHING IN WRITING THAT SUMMARIZES THE DATA UP THROUGH THE END OF '93? A. I BELIEVE IN TERMS OF -- UP THROUGH '93? Q. YEAH, THE DATA THAT WILL BE IN THE ANNUAL DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1722 REPORT YOU'RE WORKING ON. A. THERE MAY BE SOME ABSTRACTS OR THINGS, AND THERE MAY BE CHARTS AND FIGURES OR SOMETHING THAT I'VE SEEN PIECES OF, BUT I THINK WE -- I ASKED DR. CRAFT TO TURN THAT OVER, SO I THINK YOU HAVE IT. Q. NOW, YOUR FINDING NUMBER FIVE ON PAGE ROMAN NUMERAL XXIII--- A. RIGHT. I BELIEVE THAT'S--- Q. TELL ME WHAT THE SIGNIFICANCE IS OF THAT FINDING. A. IT'S THE OPINION OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS -- IT WOULD BE, I GUESS, DR. CRAFT, DR. VYMAZAL AND MYSELF -- THAT THE DATA SHOWS THAT, IN FACT, UNDER THE HIGH P TREATMENT LOAD THAT WE HAD, THAT UTRICULARIA, AS I NOTED UP UNDER NUMBER THREE, THERE WAS A DECREASE IN THE STANDING CROP OF THIS COMPONENT OF THE ECOSYSTEM. Q. AND YOU INDICATED THAT -- OR YOU STATE IN HERE THAT THIS PHENOMENA MAY BE AN EARLY INDICATOR OF PHOSPHOROUS ENRICHMENT? A. IT MAY BE AN INDICATOR, RIGHT, WHEN YOU PLACE A LOAD ON THERE THAT -- AND I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU THE PHYSIOLOGY -- BUT THIS PARTICULAR SPECIES MAY BE ONE THAT IS RESPONDING TO PHOSPHOROUS PRIOR TO SOME OF THE OTHER ONES; SO THAT'S WHY WE STATED IT AS AN EARLY DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1723 INDICATOR. Q. AND IS IT YOUR THOUGHT THAT YOU MIGHT TAKE THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF INFORMATION AND APPLY IT IN ANOTHER PART OF THE EVERGLADES AS A WAY TO PREDICT WHEN A PART OF THE EVERGLADES IS BEGINNING TO BE ENRICHED? A. WELL, IT'S ONLY ONE COMPONENT. I MEAN, IT'S AN INDICATOR. I'M NOT SURE I WOULD USE JUST ONE SPECIES. I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE SOME DIFFICULTY WITH ONE SPECIES OF ALGAE OR ONE SPECIES OF PLANT. I WOULD LIKE TO, BASICALLY, LOOK AT THE FUNCTIONAL ROLE OF THIS PLANT AND RESPONSE. IT'S A SMALL COMPONENT OF THE SYSTEM. SO, MY -- MY OPINION WOULD BE THAT WE WANT TO LOOK AT MORE THAN JUST ONE SPECIES. I'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH DR. VYMAZAL AND DR. JAN STEVENSON ABOUT SPECIES COMING AND GOING, AND IT WOULD NOT BE THEIR OPINION, OR MINE, THAT ONE PARTICULAR SPECIES, UNLESS IT WAS THE DOMINANT SPECIES, WOULD BE THE CRITICAL TEST, ALTHOUGH, AS AN INDICATOR, GIVES US SOME INDICATION THAT THERE MAY BE SOME CHANGE IN THE SYSTEM. SO, IT IS WHAT IT IS. Q. I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY THAT THE PHOSPHOROUS FOR THIS PARTICULAR PLANT IS NOT A SUBSIDY? A. FOR THIS PARTICULAR PLANT? Q. CORRECT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1724 A. IT'S HARD TO SAY WHAT PHOSPHOROUS IS. AS I SAID, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMICS OF THIS. WHAT IT MAY MEAN IS THAT THE PERIPHYTON MAT -- THIS IS SORT OF A -- IF YOU'LL NOTICE, IT SAYS "PERIPHYTON UTRICULARIA MAT," AND WE WERE QUITE CURIOUS ABOUT THIS -- WE FIND SOME OF THIS IN THE DOSING SITE, TOO -- IS THAT WITH THE BREAK UP OF THE MAT, THIS SPECIES, ESPECIALLY IN THIS CASE, DISAPPEARS -- OR DECREASES, IN THIS CASE, I THINK, IN PRODUCTION. AND WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT THAT ASSOCIATION -- WHAT THAT IS. THERE'S OBVIOUSLY SOME EFFECT ON THAT. Q. IS IT A SUBSIDY? A. NOT FOR THAT PARTICULAR SPECIES. Q. OKAY. NOW, LOOK AT FINDING NUMBER SEVEN. DO I READ THAT CORRECTLY TO SAY THAT ALL ADDITIONS, MEANING THE HIGHEST TO THE LOWEST, HAD AN IMPACT ON THE BIOTA IN THAT PLOT? A. AS STATED, "IN THE MIXED SITE, ALL FERTILIZER ADDITIONS RESULT IN A LOWER NUMBER OF SPECIES..." AS I SAID BEFORE, I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT. I'M NOT SURE IF DR. -- THAT WAS -- DR. VYMAZAL PUT THAT IN. I'M NOT SURE IF HE'S REFERRING STRICTLY TO THE ALGAE THERE. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE MIXED SITE IS THE ONE THAT HAS THE PULSED WATER IN IT, AND WE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1725 LOOKED AT THAT QUITE CAREFULLY. Q. DON'T THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME WATER IN IT? THEY ALL HAVE PULSED WATER, DON'T THEY? A. NO. THE SAWGRASS SITE WOULD NOT HAVE PULSED WATER IN IT. IT'S -- WE WENT THROUGH THE WATER--- Q. OKAY. A. ---REGIME BEFORE, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT IT STAYS WITHIN FIVE TO TEN CENTIMETERS. IT WAS PICKED PRIMARILY BECAUSE THE HYDROLOGY IS FAIRLY STABLE. IT'S THIS SITE THAT HAS THE PULSED WATER IN IT AND--- Q. WELL, WE LOOKED AT LEVELS OF WATER. WE DIDN'T LOOK AT HOW IT GOT INTO THE SYSTEM, DID WE? THAT CHART DOESN'T--- A. WELL, THIS SITE IS SITTING NEXT TO THE GATE--- Q. OH, SO YOU'RE--- A. ---I CAN ASSURE YOU FROM MY OBSERVATIONS AND OTHER THINGS WHEN YOU'RE THERE, THERE HAVE BEEN WATER -- AT TIMES, THE DISTRICT JUST OPENS THOSE GATES. SOMETIMES THE AIRBOAT DRIVERS -- IN FACT, WE'VE CALLED THE DISTRICT SEVERAL TIMES TO INFORM THEM THAT SOMEONE HAS CRANKED OPEN THE GATE AND JUST LET THE WATER POUR THROUGH THERE AND -- AND THEY CLAIM THE GATE IS CLOSED; BUT WE CAN ASSURE THEM THE GATE IS OPEN, AND SO THEY COME AND CLOSE IT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1726 Q. WELL, MY QUESTION, THOUGH, IS ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE OTHER TWO SITES DO NOT HAVE PULSED WATER COMING IN? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. I'M SAYING THAT THEY -- THEY DO NOT DISPLAY THE SAME TYPE -- THEY ARE NOT NEXT TO A STRUCTURE CLOSE BY TO A OPEN GATE STRUCTURE, AND THEY DO NOT EXPERIENCE THE SAME HYDROLOGY WHEN THE GATE IS OPEN AND CLOSED. THE WATER LEVELS, WE FIND, IN THE SAWGRASS SITE ARE VERY STABLE AND MAINTAINED WHERE THAT HEALTHY STAND OF SAWGRASS IS. IN THE SLOUGH SITE, I THINK IF YOU LOOKED AT THE HYDROLOGY WE LOOKED AT, STAYS FAIRLY UNIFORM. THIS IS THE SITE THAT OSCILLATES. Q. BUT YOUR FINDING NUMBER SEVEN SAYS THAT: IT IS THE FERTILIZER ADDITION WHICH RESULTS IN THE LOWER NUMBER OF SPECIES AND A DISAPPEARANCE OF MOST FILAMENTOUS GREEN ALGAE, RESULTING IN A DECREASE OF PERIPHYTON BIOMASS IN FERTILIZER PLOTS. CORRECT? A. THAT'S WHAT IT STATES. THAT'S NOT MY STATEMENT. I SAID DR. VYMAZAL PUT THAT IN, AND I SAID WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THAT--- Q. WELL--- A. ---AND I'M TELLING YOU THAT I THINK IT'S RELATED TO--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1727 Q. PULSE WATER. A. HUH? Q. PULSED WATER. A. WELL, I'M SAYING THAT IT'S A LITTLE MORE COMPLEX THAN SIMPLY SAYING THIS, AND I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THIS -- THE ALGAE IN SEVEN. I THINK THIS IS REFERRING TO THE ALGAE. I DON'T THINK IT REFERS TO THE MACROPHYTES. I DON'T THINK, IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE MACROPHYTES, THAT YOU WILL FIND THAT THE MACROPHYTES HAVE DECREASED AT ALL. Q. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MACROPHYTES. I'M TALKING ABOUT PERIPHYTON. A. RIGHT. WELL, AT THIS SITE--- Q. AND IT DOESN'T -- AND THE FINDING ATTRIBUTES THIS IMPACT TO THE FERTILIZER ADDITIONS, NOT TO PULSED WATER. A. I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND THAT IS--- Q. AND -- BUT YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT YOUR OPINION IS THAT IT WAS THE PULSED WATER AND NOT THE NUTRIENT ADDITIONS? A. WELL, I'M JUST TELLING YOU THAT I FIND IT VERY SURPRISING THAT NITROGEN -- AND IT'S THE ONLY TIME WE'VE FOUND NITROGEN EFFECTS. WE HAVE BEEN POURING NITROGEN TO THESE SITES. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1728 MAKES ME SUSPECT THAT THE WATER HAS AN EFFECT ON THIS. Q. WELL, BUT PHOSPHOROUS IS THERE, ALSO. A. RIGHT. MR. BURGESS: CAN HE FINISH HIS ANSWER? MR. REID: I THOUGHT HE WAS, OBVIOUSLY, OR I WOULDN'T HAVE STARTED. WERE YOU FINISHED? WITNESS: NO. MR. REID: WELL, THEN, WHY DON'T YOU FINISH. A. I WAS SAYING THAT WHAT WAS SURPRISING ME WAS THAT NITROGEN WAS HAVING A RESPONSE. IN FACT, WE HAD SOME PLOTS WITH STRICTLY NITROGEN. AND, SO, NITROGEN AND PHOSPHOROUS, ESSENTIALLY, HERE TALKS ABOUT A LOWER NUMBER OF FILAMENTOUS ALGAE -- BOTH -- WHICH I SAID IS SURPRISING BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT SEEN A NITROGEN RESPONSE ANYWHERE ELSE. Q. THE NUMBER SEVEN TALKS ABOUT FERTILIZER ADDITIONS, BOTH NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS; IS THAT CORRECT? A. CORRECT. Q. AND IT DOESN'T MAKE REFERENCE TO THE PULSE WATER, BUT YOU BELIEVE THAT THE PULSED WATER IS THE CAUSE, NOT THE NUTRIENTS? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1729 A. WELL, THIS WAS -- THIS WAS A REPORT WE PUT OUT AS THE FIRST-YEAR ANALYSIS. AND, AS I SAID, THIS WAS -- THE WORK WAS DONE BY DR. VYMAZAL. I'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH HIM, AND WE HAVE LOOKED AT THIS QUITE CAREFULLY. AND, AS I SAID, THE DIFFERENCE HERE FROM THIS SITE -- THE ONLY DIFFERENCE FROM THIS SITE TO THE SAWGRASS SITE OR THE SLOUGH SITE IS THE PULSED-WATER CONDITIONS; AND, SO, THEREFORE, TO ME, I THINK WE PUT THIS TOGETHER, AND MY OPINION WOULD BE THAT IS THE -- THERE IS ANOTHER COMPONENT TO THIS THAT'S CAUSING THIS DECREASE. Q. PULSED WATER? A. WELL, EXCESS FLOW OF WATER, FOR SURE, AND I -- AND I THINK THE HYDROLOGY DATA DEMONSTRATES THAT, AND WHAT I'VE ALSO SEEN. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CONTROL PLOTS? A. DO I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CONTROL PLOTS? Q. YEAH. I DON'T SEE ANY REFERENCE TO THE CONTROL PLOTS IN THESE FINDINGS. A. WELL, IT WOULD BE HARD TO SAY THAT YOU TOOK THE CONTROL PLOTS -- IT'S RATHER A STUPID QUESTION. HOW COULD YOU -- HOW COULD YOU SUBTRACT THE CONTROL PLOTS FROM THEMSELVES? THAT WOULD BE RATHER DIFFICULT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1730 Q. I'M NOT SUBTRACTING THEM. I'M ASKING YOU WHAT HAPPENED IN THE CONTROL PLOTS. A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE DATA, BUT THAT'S THE BASELINE OF YOUR COMPARISON. Q. OKAY. SO I CAN UNDERSTAND, THEN, WHENEVER YOU SAY SOMETHING IS LOWER, YOU MEAN COMPARED TO THE CONTROL PLOTS? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, I CAN'T SAY EVERYWHERE, BUT--- Q. WELL, SINCE YOU DON'T MENTION CONTROL PLOTS, I GUESS IT'S CLEAR ENOUGH. A. WELL, AS I SAID, WHAT WE'VE GOT HERE IS -- YOU'RE TRYING TO SUMMARIZE THE WHOLE STUDY--- Q. NO. A. ---FROM JUST SORT OF WHAT, AS I SAID BEFORE, WAS A GENERAL EXECUTIVE SORT OF OVERVIEW OF THIS. IF YOU WANT TO LOOK -- I'D HAVE TO GO BACK. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THIS DOCUMENT IN QUITE A WHILE. WE COULD GO LOOK AT THE DATA AND SEE WHAT THAT REPRESENTS. Q. WELL, I UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS DOCUMENT WAS THE BEST STATEMENT OF YOUR OPINIONS IN THIS CASE--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. Q. ---SO THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING YOU ABOUT IT. A. NO. I SAID THIS WAS A FIRST -- THE FIRST DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1731 REPORT FROM THIS. WE WOULD HAVE OTHER INFORMATION AND--- Q. BUT WE DON'T HAVE OTHER INFORMATION AS WE SIT HERE. A. YOU'VE GOT THE DATA. Q. WE HAVE THE DATA, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY ABOUT THE DATA, DO WE? A. WELL, YES, WE DO. WE WENT THROUGH THAT YESTERDAY. Q. YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME -- NO, I SAID WE DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY ABOUT THE DATA AFTER YOU ANALYZE IT. A. NO, I WENT THROUGH SOME OPINIONS--- Q. I'M ENTITLED TO KNOW THAT. A. ---I WENT THROUGH SOME OPINIONS YESTERDAY. Q. BASED ON THE NEW DATA? A. YES. Q. SO, YOU'VE ANALYZED THE NEW DATA? A. NO. I HAVE BASICALLY TOLD YOU WHAT INFORMATION WE HAD. WE'VE ANALYZED PART OF IT. I SAID TO DR. CRAFT IN OUR DISCUSSIONS, I SAID, "DR. CRAFT," FOR EXAMPLE, "HAVE WE SEEN ANY?" HE SAID, "THE DATA IS NOT COMPLETED." I SAID, "WELL, CAN YOU ANSWER A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR ME?" AND I THINK YOU'LL FIND SOME OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1732 THAT IN THE QUARTERLY REPORTS. AND I SAID, "HAVE WE SEEN AN INTRODUCTION OF CATTAIL IN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SAWGRASS PLOTS?" AND THE ANSWER IS, "WE HAVE NOT." "HAVE WE SEEN INCREASED GROWTH IN THE SECOND YEAR?" THE ANSWER IS, "YES, WE HAVE, AND WE'VE ACTUALLY SEEN IT AT SOME OTHER PLACES." SO, I MEAN--- Q. WELL--- A. ---IF YOU ASK FOR A FULL EXPLANATION, YOU WILL GET IT. Q. ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU LOOK AT THE -- DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE FIRST -- I MEAN, THE JANUARY '94 QUARTERLY REPORT? WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT, PLEASE? A. WHICH ONE IS THAT? Q. IT'S NONE OF THOSE. I'VE GOT IT RIGHT HERE. MR. BURGESS: EXHIBIT THREE. MR. REID: YEAH. WOULD YOU SHOW HIM YOUR COPY, PLEASE? MR. BURGESS: NO. MR. REID: WHAT IS THIS? OKAY--- MR. BURGESS: IT'S THE ONLY COPY I HAVE. I BROUGHT MY -- WE MARKED IT AS AN EXHIBIT. MR. REID: WELL, LOOK, WHY CAN'T YOU PUT IT BETWEEN YOU TWO SO I DON'T HAVE TO COME AROUND AND STAND? IF I HAVE TO COME AROUND DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1733 AND STAND, I WILL. BUT DON'T YELL AT ME FOR HOVERING OVER THE WITNESS WHEN YOU WON'T EVEN ALLOW ME THE COURTESY--- MR. GREEN: HAVEN'T WE MARKED EXHIBIT THREE? MR. REID: YEAH. I WAS HOLDING IT, AND I ASKED HIM IF HE MINDED LOOKING WITH RICK, BUT, YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST PLAY THESE GAMES. Q. (BY MR. REID) WOULD YOU READ -- LOOKING AT EXHIBIT THREE, WOULD YOU READ THAT TO YOURSELF, UNLESS YOU'VE READ IT RECENTLY. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT ADDS ANYTHING OR DETRACTS FROM OR CHANGES IN ANY WAY ANY OF THE FINDINGS THAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT ON PAGE XXIII. WITNESS: THE ENTIRE EXHIBIT THREE? MR. REID: I WAS ABLE TO FIND ANOTHER COPY, SO I DON'T HAVE TO BOTHER MR. BURGESS. MR. BURGESS: YOU KNOW, BEN--- MR. REID: I THINK IT'S RATHER RIDICULOUS--- MR. BURGESS: ---I BROUGHT A COPY FOR MYSELF--- MR. REID: I KNOW, BUT I JUST THINK--- MR. BURGESS: ---AND FOR COUNSEL--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1734 MR. REID: ---I WANT HIM TO LOOK AT A PIECE OF PAPER; I THINK IT'S OUTRAGEOUS. MR. BURGESS: ---COUNSEL, MR. GREEN AND, I ARE SHARING AN EXHIBIT. MR. REID: FINE. HE'S GOT ONE NOW. MR. BURGESS: THE PRACTICE IN THE CASE HAS BEEN TO BRING SUFFICIENT COPIES FOR OTHER COUNSEL, AND FOR THE WITNESS, IN ADDITION--- MR. REID: WELL, I GUESS I SCREWED UP, DIDN'T I? MR. BURGESS: ---IN ADDITION TO AN EXHIBIT. I HAVE AN OBJECTION TO THE PENDING QUESTION. ARE YOU ASKING HIM TO--- MR. REID: MY QUESTION WAS TO ASK HIM TO READ IT. WHAT'S YOUR OBJECTION TO THAT QUESTION? MR. BURGESS: THE ENTIRE EXHIBIT? MR. REID: NO, I POINTED OUT EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED HIM TO READ, BUT THE ENTIRE EXHIBIT IS ONLY A FEW PAGES. OKAY. TELL ME WHAT THE -- WHAT'S YOUR OBJECTION TO HIS READING THE DOCUMENT? MR. BURGESS: NONE, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING HIM TO DO. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1735 MR. REID: FINE. THAT'S WHAT I ASKED HIM TO DO, AND YOU SAID YOU HAD AN OBJECTION. MR. BURGESS: OKAY. MR. GREEN: I DON'T OBJECT TO HIM READING THE DOCUMENT, BUT I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION WHICH WAS MUCH MORE EXTENSIVE THAN THAT, COUNSEL. WITNESS: I DON'T REMEMBER THE QUESTION, SO I WOULDN'T--- MR. GREEN: WELL, WHY DON'T YOU READ THE DOCUMENT, THEN. WITNESS: YOU WANT ME TO READ THE WHOLE DOCUMENT OR JUST THE SECTION RELATED TO THIS? MR. REID: ONLY THE SECTION RELATING TO GENERAL OBJECTIVE ONE--- WITNESS: OKAY. MR. REID: ---AND ONLY AS IT RELATES TO THE FERTILIZER PROJECT. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) WITNESS: THAT'S THE MACROPHYTE DATA; I'VE READ IT. Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY. NOW, MY QUESTION IS, DOES ANYTHING IN THE MATERIAL THAT YOU JUST READ CHANGE ANY OF THE CONCLUSIONS EXPRESSED ON PAGES XXIII AND DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1736 XXIV THAT WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT OF THE ANNUAL REPORT? A. WELL, THEY'RE NOT -- IT DOESN'T -- IT'S NOT AS INCLUSIVE AS THE LIST ON PAGE XXIII AND XXIV, BUT -- BECAUSE THIS IS ONLY A SHORT-TERM -- THIS IS ONLY A QUARTERLY ANALYSIS. AND, AS I SAID, EACH QUARTERLY REPORT MAY HIGHLIGHT ONE FEATURE OR ANOTHER; BUT, BASICALLY, THIS REPORT POINTS OUT THAT BIOMASS IS INCREASING IN THOSE PLOTS, IN BOTH THE PHOSPHOROUS TREATMENTS, N AND P TREATMENTS, AND GENERALLY SHOWS THAT THERE'S INCREASED GROWTH. I MEAN, IT DOESN'T -- DOESN'T REFUTE ANYTHING THAT'S IN -- IN THE -- ON PAGES XXIII AND XXIV. IT'S JUST MORE EXTENSIVE DATA AS SO STATED HERE. Q. WELL, MY QUESTION IS DOES IT CHANGE ANY CONCLUSIONS THAT YOU DREW FROM THE FIRST-YEAR DATA? A. I THINK THE -- NUMBER TWO STATES THAT WE HAVE -- THE MEDIUM PHOSPHOROUS IS HAVING -- CAUSING INCREASED GROWTH OF THE SAWGRASS, WHICH, BEFORE, I THINK THERE WAS NO -- NO EFFECT OF THE FIRST TWO TREATMENTS, POINT SIX AND ONE POINT TWO, BUT IN THE FIRST YEAR, WE SAW INCREASE IN THE FOUR POINT EIGHT GRAMS PER METER SQUARED. NOW, APPARENTLY, ACCORDING TO THIS, WE SEE THE MEDIUM PHOSPHOROUS RESULTING IN HIGHER STANDING CROP BIOMASS. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1737 Q. IS THAT AN IMPACT -- WOULD YOU SAY THAT DEMONSTRATES AN IMPACT OF THE PHOSPHOROUS ON THE ECOSYSTEM THERE? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO FORM. MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. NO, I THINK THAT SHOWS, AGAIN, THE SUBSIDY AND, BASICALLY, THE MACROPHYTES ARE RESPONDING TO THAT NUTRIENT. Q. WELL, OKAY. AND WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THAT AT THE MID-LEVEL, IT DID NOT APPEAR IN THE FIRST YEAR AND IT DID APPEAR IN THE SECOND? A. BECAUSE, AS I SAID BEFORE, IN THE FIRST YEAR AT LOWER ADDITIONS, YOU PROBABLY HAD OTHER COMPONENTS OF THE SYSTEM UTILIZING PHOSPHOROUS, OR IT WAS BASICALLY ADSORBED OR PRECIPITATED TO THE SOIL; AND, GENERALLY SPEAKING, WITH A LOWER LOAD, IT MAY TAKE LONGER FOR IT TO ACTUALLY GET TO THE MACROPHYTES; AND, ESSENTIALLY, YOU HAVE TO ADD SUFFICIENT PHOSPHOROUS AT SOME LOAD, OBVIOUSLY, TO -- MACROPHYTES ARE SOME OF THE SLOWEST PHOSPHOROUS REMOVERS BY COMPARISON TO OTHER COMPONENTS OF THE ECOSYSTEM. Q. CATTAILS ARE POOR PHOSPHOROUS REMOVERS, I THINK YOU TOLD ME YESTERDAY? A. THEY'RE NOT VERY EFFICIENT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1738 Q. OKAY. NOW, IN EXHIBIT THREE--- A. ARE WE IN A DIFFERENT EXHIBIT, NOW? Q. SAME EXHIBIT, PAGE TWO. A. PAGE TWO, OKAY. Q. THE SAME PAGE, DOWN AT THE BOTTOM PARAGRAPH, OR ITEM NUMBER THREE, YOU TALK ABOUT THE RATES OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS. A. CORRECT. Q. AND THIS IS BEING DONE TO DETERMINE THE COMPETITIVE INTERACTION BETWEEN SAWGRASS AND CATTAILS. WHAT WERE YOUR FINDINGS THERE? A. BASICALLY -- THIS IS A STUDENT PROJECT. Q. WHAT'S A STUDENT PROJECT? A. THIS NUMBER THREE IS A MASTER'S LEVEL STUDENT PROJECT THAT I STARTED WITH DR. CRAFT AND A STUDENT AND, ESSENTIALLY, LOOKING AT PHOTOSYNTHESIS TO SEE WHAT THE RATES OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS WERE FOR SAWGRASS AND CATTAIL, AND TO LOOK AT THE EFFECTS OF NUTRIENT ADDITIONS ON -- IT SAYS "COMPETITIVE INTERACTION" -- BASICALLY TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THEIR PRODUCTIVITY NET PHOTOSYNTHETIC RATES ARE. Q. WELL, CAN YOU TRANSLATE HIGHER PHOTOSYNTHESIS TO GROWTH CONCERNS? A. IT'S -- IT'S SURELY POSSIBLE TO DO THAT, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1739 ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAD THE RESPIRATION. YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE RESPIRATION BECAUSE IT'S THE -- YOU CAN PRODUCE AND STORE CARBON, BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW MUCH IS BEING BURNED OFF; AND THAT -- BUT, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THESE RATES CAN BE UTILIZED TO GIVE YOU SOME IDEA OF THE NET PHOTOSYNTHETIC POTENTIAL OF SPECIES. Q. AND IF THE HIGHER -- THE SPECIES WITH THE HIGHER PHOTOSYNTHESIS RATE, CAN WE ASSUME IT WOULD BE GROWING FASTER? A. IT MAY BE GROWING AT A FASTER RATE. Q. OKAY. AND HERE YOUR EXPERIMENTS HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT THE CATTAIL CONSISTENTLY EXHIBITS A HIGHER PHOTOSYNTHESIS RATE THAN SAWGRASS AT ALL OF THE TREATMENTS; IS THAT CORRECT? A. RIGHT. CATTAIL WOULD HAVE -- CATTAIL HAS A HIGHER PHOTOSYNTHETIC RATE THAN SAWGRASS. Q. OKAY. AND WOULD THAT LEAD YOU TO CONCLUDE THAT THE CATTAIL IS MORE LIKE -- IS LIKELY TO OUT-COMPETE THE SAWGRASS, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL? A. THERE ARE MANY OTHER FACTORS THAT WOULD -- COMPETITION IS NOT STRICTLY PHOTOSYNTHESIS. Q. I UNDERSTAND. BUT DOES -- MY QUESTION IS, DOES THAT INDICATE THAT THAT WOULD OCCUR? A. NOT NECESSARILY. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1740 Q. DR. -- IT STARTS WITH A "V" -- VYMAZAL? A. VYMAZAL. Q. VYMAZAL, IS HE STILL AT DUKE? A. NO, HE'S BACK IN CZECHOSLOVAKIA. Q. WHEN DID HE -- WHEN WAS HE LAST AT DUKE? A. THAT WAS SOMETIME IN '93. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND CHECK. HE WENT BACK TO CZECHOSLOVAKIA -- I'M TERRIBLE ON DATES. I FORGET, BUT IT WAS SOMETIME -- HE WENT BACK TO CZECHOSLOVAKIA. HE CAME BACK -- HE CAME BACK ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, BUT I THINK HE OFFICIALLY LEFT SOMETIME LAST, I WOULD SAY JUNE, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IS MY RECOLLECTION. I COULD BE WRONG ON THAT, BUT I JUST -- BUT SOMETIME THEN, THAT PERIOD. Q. ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE TO PAGE -- ROMAN NUMERAL XXIV, AND THAT DISCUSSES THE GRADIENT NUTRIENT STUDY AS IT RELATES TO MACROINVERTEBRATE IN FISH RESPONSES. DO YOU SEE THAT? A. XXIV, RIGHT. Q. NOW, THAT'S THE SAME GRADIENT STUDY WE TALKED ABOUT THIS MORNING, THE SIX SITES? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. NOW THAT YOU HAVE YOUR REPORT, YOU TOLD ME THAT WITH YOUR REPORT, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL ME WHERE THE ENRICHED AREA ENDED IN THE SOILS COMING DOWN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1741 YOUR GRADIENTS. CAN YOU DO THAT FOR ME, PLEASE? A. YES. I THINK THE -- PROBABLY THE EASIEST WAY TO DO THAT IS TO GO TO MY MOST RECENT PUBLICATION WITH DR. CRAFT AND--- Q. OKAY. A. ---LOOK AT THAT. I THINK THEY'RE DELINEATED VERY CLEARLY ON THAT, AND WOULD SAVE A LOT OF TIME. Q. DID YOU BRING THAT WITH YOU? A. I TURNED IT OVER TO YOU. Q. AS PART OF THE DOCUMENTS? A. RIGHT. Q. OKAY. SO, THIS MORNING, WHEN YOU SAID YOU COULD FIND IT IN THE REPORT AND NOW I HAVE THE REPORT, YOU'RE NOW TELLING ME I NEED ANOTHER DOCUMENT TO FIND IT? A. NO, WE CAN DO THIS--- Q. OKAY. A. ---IF YOU WANT TO DO IT THE PAINFUL WAY, WE CAN GO THROUGH IT SITE-BY-SITE. I'M JUST TELLING YOU THE EASY WAY TO DO IT--- Q. WELL--- A. ---BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO IT THIS WAY, I'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT. MR. BURGESS: MY OTHER OBJECTION WOULD DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1742 BE ASKED AND ANSWERED. THIS WAS ENTIRELY COVERED DURING THE FIRST DEPOSITION; IT'S REPETITIOUS. ENTIRELY REPETITIOUS. A. BUT I'LL BE HAPPY TO DO IT FOR YOU. Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY. I'D JUST LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THE ENRICHED ZONE IN THE SOILS ENDED ON EACH OF YOUR THREE LINES? A. DO YOU WANT ME TO TAKE THIS REPORT AND DO IT? Q. YEAH, GO RIGHT AHEAD. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. OKAY. Q. OKAY. AND THE ANSWER IS? A. WELL, IF YOU TURN TO PAGE 309, THIS IS EXACTLY THE TABLE, I BELIEVE, OR ONE JUST LIKE IT THAT WE WENT THROUGH ABOUT A YEAR AGO, THROUGH THIS EXERCISE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE A-LINE, THE CRITERIA THAT WAS USED AS A BASE OF DETERMINING WHAT -- WHERE THE ENRICHMENT ZONE WAS IN CONJUNCTION WITH SOME OF THE SOIL PHOSPHOROUS ISOPLETHS, YOU WOULD FIND THAT WE WOULD HAVE INCLUDED 10A-1, 10A-2, 10A-3, BUT NOT -- BUT PROBABLY SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN, BUT NOT 10A-4. I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL, AND TALK WITH DR. CRAFT; BUT SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THOSE TWO, A LINE WOULD HAVE BEEN DRAWN IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE SOIL ISOPLETHS--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1743 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT WAS--- A. ---ABOUT SIX HUNDRED MICROGRAMS PER GRAM. Q. THAT WAS THE NUMBER -- THAT WAS THE CUTOFF NUMBER, SIX HUNDRED? A. THAT WAS THE CUTOFF -- THAT WAS THE CUTOFF NUMBER. Q. OKAY. A. SO, THEN, THAT WOULD BE THE A-LINE. THE C-LINE WOULD BE -- WOULD INCLUDE 10C-1, 10C-2, 10C-3, 10C-4. IT WOULD NOT INCLUDE 10C-5. Q. SO, IT'D BE BETWEEN FOUR AND FIVE? A. RIGHT. AGAIN, I THINK WE WOULD USE THE CUT-OFF POINT AGAIN FOR SOME OF THOSE ISOPLETH LINES. AND D-1 WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE ENRICHMENT ZONE, 10D-2, 10D-3, 10D-4, BUT NOT 10D-5, NOR THE SIX LINES BELOW THAT -- THAT'S ANY OF THE SIXTH LINE. Q. THAT WOULD BE BETWEEN FOUR AND FIVE? A. THAT WOULD BE BETWEEN FOUR -- THE D-LINE YOU'RE REFERRING TO? Q. YES. A. SOMEWHERE, YES. Q. AND BY THESE SITES -- THREE, FOUR, AND SO FORTH, YOU MEAN YOUR SAMPLE SITES, SO THEY'RE YOUR SAMPLING SITES, SO THERE WOULD BE SIX IN EACH LINE; IS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1744 THAT CORRECT? A. THERE ARE SIX IN EACH LINE, THAT'S CORRECT--- Q. OKAY. A. ---WITH THE ADDITION, AS WE MENTIONED THIS MORNING, OF SOME NEW CORES PLACED AT HALF DISTANCE, A-1/2, D-1/2 AND C-1/2. Q. AM I READING THIS CORRECTLY THAT, SAY, FOR INSTANCE, 10A-4 WOULD BE SEVEN POINT THREE KILOMETERS FROM THE CANAL? WOULD THAT BE THE CORRECT READING? A. 10D -- 10A-4? Q. A-4, RIGHT. A. I BELIEVE THAT'S RIGHT. Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW IF THIS TABLE IS STILL ACCURATE, ON PAGE 309 OF EXHIBIT TWO? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I BELIEVE IT TO BE ACCURATE, IN TERMS OF--- Q. THERE HAVE BEEN NO CHANGES IN THE DATA, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. A. OTHER THAN THE ADDITIONS THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER. Q. THE ADDITIONS -- OH, TO THE SAMPLES, YOU MEAN? A. RIGHT. I MEAN--- Q. THE NEW SAMPLES. RIGHT. OKAY. A. AT LEAST AS FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER, I THINK DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1745 THIS IS IT. I THINK THE MOST ACCURATE ANALYSIS WOULD, OF COURSE, BE IN THE PUBLISHED PAPER THAT WE PROVIDED YOU. Q. AND THAT WAS PUBLISHED -- AUTHORED BY WHOM? A. DR. CRAFT AND MYSELF. Q. WHERE WAS IT PUBLISHED? A. BIOGEOCHEMISTRY. MR. BURGESS: IS THERE SOME QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU RECEIVED THAT PAPER? MR. REID: I DON'T REMEMBER IT WITHOUT GOING BACK AND LOOKING. MR. BURGESS: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) WHEN YOU SAID THE PAPER WOULD BE MORE ACCURATE, DO YOU MEAN IT WOULD BE MORE UP-TO-DATE? A. WHAT I'M SAYING IS I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS THE ONE THAT WOULD HAVE THE MORE RECENT TEXT AND INFORMATION RELATED TO THAT. THIS WAS A -- THIS WAS A DRAFT CHAPTER. THAT PAPER WOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH SEVERAL EDITINGS, PEER REVIEW, EDITORIAL REVIEW, TECHNICAL REVIEW, GRAPHICS REVIEW. SO, I THINK TO COMPARE THIS ONE TO THAT IS NOT QUITE THE SAME. Q. EXHIBIT TWO IS THE FINAL REPORT FOR THAT YEAR; IS THAT CORRECT? IT'S NOT A DRAFT? A. NO, THIS IS THE FINAL REPORT FOR THAT YEAR. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1746 Q. FOR THAT YEAR; OKAY. AND THEN THERE ARE SOME DRAFTS, YOU SAY, OF THE ONE YOU'RE WORKING ON CURRENTLY? A. THERE ARE CHAPTERS; PIECES. Q. DRAFTS OF CHAPTERS. ALL RIGHT, LOOKING AT PAGE XXV, THE NEXT TEST OR STUDY, RATHER, DEALING WITH THIS FIRST--- A. ROMAN NUMERAL XXV? Q. YES -- DEALING WITH GENERAL OBJECTIVE ONE, IS THE DOSING STUDY, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT TODAY AT SOME LENGTH. IS THIS THE SAME DOSING STUDY WE TALKED ABOUT THIS MORNING? A. YES, IT'S THE SAME DOSING STUDY. Q. OKAY. AND JUST BELOW THE -- THERE'S A SECOND DOSING STUDY MENTIONED. IS THAT THE SAME DOSING STUDY ON PAGE XXV? IT SAYS "DOSING STUDY," AND THEN A COUPLE PARAGRAPH DOWN SAYS "DOSING STUDY" AGAIN. A. OH, THAT'S THE SAME STUDY. THAT JUST HAPPENS TO BE THAT THAT IS A BASELINE PLANT SAMPLING IN THE SAME DOSING STUDY. Q. OKAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CALCIFICATION? SPECIFICALLY, YOU MENTION IT WITH REGARD TO THE PERIPHYTON BIOMASS. A. OVER HERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ON PAGE XXVI? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1747 Q. WELL, YOU MENTION IN ON PAGE XXVI IN NUMBER FOUR, AND I SAW IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, TOO. A. LET ME LOOK AT THAT AND SEE WHAT I SAID HERE, OR SOME OF MY STAFF SAID. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I THINK THAT THE CALCIFICATION -- THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION PEOPLE HAD POSED ABOUT CALCIFICATION. IT -- IT'S A PROCESS BY WHICH THE ALGAE IN THE PERIPHYTON MAT -- AND THEY -- THEY BASICALLY, THEY PRODUCE CALCIUM CARBONATE; WHEN THEY TAKE UP CO2, THEY PRODUCE THIS CALCAREOUS WHITE MAT. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE REALLY KNOWS THE ECOLOGICAL SIGNIFICANCE TOTALLY OF WHAT THE CALCIFICATION -- WHAT THE MAT DOES. ONE CAN SPECULATE THAT IT -- THAT IT MAY HAVE SOME IMPORTANCE IN -- PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT IN VIEW OF LIGHT PENETRATION, IN OTHER WORDS, KEEPING COMPETITION DOWN FOR THE ALGAE AND PERIPHYTON IN THE SENSE THAT WITH THIS DENSE MAT, THAT THERE WOULD BE LESS LIGHT PENETRATION THROUGH THE WATER COLUMN. ALSO, THE TEMPERATURE, I'VE -- WE'VE NOTICED -- WE'VE TAKEN TEMPERATURES -- WE'VE ALSO NOTICED THE TEMPERATURE UNDER THE WHITE MAT -- SINCE WHITE REFLECTS LIGHT, THAT THE TEMPERATURE BENEATH THIS MAT MAY BE MORE CONDUCIVE TO SOME OF THE LIFE COMPARED TO OTHER AREAS OF THE WATER COLUMN. WE CAN GET MUCH, MUCH HIGHER -- CAN GET DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1748 MUCH HIGHER WATER TEMPERATURE IF THE WATER'S FAIRLY BROWN, SO IT MAY HELP SOME ORGANISMS -- SOME SPECIALIZED -- SURVIVE UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS. AND, AS I SAID BEFORE, IT MAY BE THAT THE MAT COMBINATION PULLED TOGETHER MAY BE SOME -- THERE MAY BE SOME MECHANISMS. WE'RE TRYING TO FERRET OUT IN OUR DOSING STUDY THAT THIS COLLECTIVE BODY ALLOWS A MILIEU OF SUCH THAT THE ORGANISMS THERE CAN MORE EASILY OBTAIN NUTRIENTS LIKE PHOSPHOROUS, FOR EXAMPLE, OR OTHER MATERIALS, SO -- BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS -- NO ONE REALLY, I THINK, HAS COMPLETE APPRECIATION FOR THIS. DR. STEVENSON IS WORKING ON THIS; IT'S VERY INTERESTING. Q. ALL RIGHT. LOOKING AT PAGE XXVI OF -- ROMAN NUMERAL XXVI--- A. PAGE--- Q. ---PAGE XXVI. A. OKAY. PAGE XXVI. Q. ROMAN NUMERAL PAGE XXVI. A. ROMAN NUMERAL XXVI. OKAY. Q. PARAGRAPH -- OR GENERAL OBJECTIVE TWO WHICH RELATES TO THE STORAGE CAPACITY--- A. CORRECT. Q. ---NOW, FIRST IS MENTIONED THE GRADIENT STUDY. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1749 THAT'S THE SAME GRADIENT STUDY THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE; IS THAT CORRECT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH UNDER "GRADIENT STUDY"--- A. NUMBER TWO OR NUMBER ONE YOU'RE TALKING--- Q. NUMBER ONE, YEAH. IT'S MENTIONED THAT "ADDITIONS OF NUTRIENT ENRICHED AGRICULTURAL DRAINAGE HAVE RESULTED IN AN INCREASED RATE OF PEAT ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION DOWNSTREAM." DO YOU FIND ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT IN THAT STATEMENT? A. SIGNIFICANT? NO. I THINK IT'S -- I MEAN, IT'S WHAT IT IS. Q. OKAY. AND THAT WOULD BE -- YOU'D CONSIDER THAT TO BE A SUBSIDY STILL, THAT NUTRIENT ADDITION? A. WELL, IT'S AN ADDITION, SURELY, TO THE SYSTEM. Q. OKAY. IS -- YOUR FINDINGS WITH REGARD TO THE RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION, ARE THEY SIGNIFICANT IN ANY WAY? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, THEY'RE SIGNIFICANT IN THE SENSE THAT WE HAVE INCREASED THE AMOUNT OF PEAT, THE RATE AT WHICH PEAT IS BEING ACCUMULATED, CLOSER TO THE CANAL, PRODUCTIVITY IS HIGHER, WHICH WOULD FOLLOW WITH THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1750 SUBSIDY IDEA, THAN FURTHER AWAY. Q. DO YOU FIND -- DO YOU CONSIDER THAT TO BE AN IMPACT ON THE ECOSYSTEM AS A RESULT OF AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I WOULDN'T CALL IT AN IMPACT. AGAIN, I'D CALL IT SUBSIDY, AND YOU JUST HAVE AN INCREASED PRODUCTION. INCREASED PRODUCTIVITY IS NOT A NEGATIVE, BY AND LARGE, TO MOST ECOSYSTEMS. Q. IS IT IN THIS ECOSYSTEM? A. I DON'T THINK SO. Q. REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU'RE INCREASING THE PRODUCTIVITY OF? A. I DIDN'T SAY THAT. I SAID, GENERALLY SPEAKING. GENERALLY, YOU'RE INCREASING ONE PART OF THE FOOD CHAIN, IN TERMS OF THE BASE -- IN THIS CASE, THE MACROPHYTES. Q. WELL, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT'S HELPFUL OR HEALTHY TO INCREASE THE MACROPHYTES IN THIS MANNER? A. TO INCREASE PRODUCTION? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? Q. YES. A. I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH INCREASING PRODUCTION. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1751 Q. OF THE MACROPHYTES? A. OF THE MACROPHYTES IN THE SYSTEM. THIS WOULD BE A NORMAL OCCURRENCE. FROM TIME TO TIME IN THE EVERGLADES, YOU WOULD HAVE INCREASED PRODUCTION. HISTORICALLY, THE RECORDS SHOW THAT ONE TIME, WE USED TO HAVE -- WE USED TO HAVE SAWGRASS, ACCORDING TO THE EARLY RECORDS, THAT WAS AMAZINGLY DENSE AND WELL ABOVE A MAN'S HEAD. THERE ARE SOME PICTURES. AND, OF COURSE, NOW WE HAVE, MORE RECENT TIMES, FIND VERY SMALL POCKETS OF THIS. WE HAVE MUCH REDUCED PRODUCTION; SO, AN INCREASE IN PRODUCTION OF A SPECIES, I DON'T THINK, LIKE SAWGRASS OR CATTAILS. Q. WELL, YOU'RE LUMPING THEM TOGETHER, SAYING THAT -- YOU'RE TREATING THEM AS THE SAME THING, IN EFFECT. A. IN TERMS OF PRODUCTION, I SAID AN INCREASE OF PRODUCTION OF CATTAIL VERSUS AN INCREASE OF PRODUCTION OF SAWGRASS, I MEAN, IT'S NOT HARMFUL TO THE SPECIES, AND I'M NOT SURE IT CHANGES -- IT MAKES -- IT BASICALLY CHANGES THE CARBON STORAGE RATE. Q. ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE ADDITION OF THESE NUTRIENTS, THEN, IS A BENEFIT TO THE SYSTEM? A. AM I SAYING IT'S A BENEFIT? Q. YEAH. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1752 A. WELL, IN TERMS OF THIS ONE COMPONENT OR IN TERMS OF THIS FUNCTION, IT INCREASES PRODUCTIVITY. Q. WELL, DO YOU CONSIDER THAT TO BE A BENEFIT TO THE ECOSYSTEM? A. A BENEFIT TO THE ECOSYSTEM? Q. YEAH. A. WELL, LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY. I DON'T CONSIDER INCREASED PRODUCTION A -- A HARM TO THE SYSTEM. Q. DO YOU CONSIDER THE INCREASE IN PHOSPHOROUS A BENEFIT TO THIS SYSTEM--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. Q. ---WITH ALL ITS RAMIFICATIONS THAT YOU HAVE OBSERVED? MR. BURGESS: SAME OBJECTION. A. INCREASE IN PHOSPHOROUS, YOU MEAN? NOT AT ALL LEVELS. Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "NOT AT ALL LEVELS"? A. WELL, IT'S LIKE WE SAID THIS MORNING, THERE CAN BE -- OBVIOUSLY, WITH ANYTHING, THERE CAN BE A LEVEL WHICH -- UPON WHICH ONE WOULD NOT WANT TO PROBABLY GO BEYOND. PRODUCTIVITY, FOR EXAMPLE, IS ONLY ONE COMPONENT. IF PRODUCTIVITY WAS THE ONLY CHANGE ONE OBSERVED IN THIS ECOSYSTEM, THEN I THINK -- AND THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT EVER TOOK PLACE, I DON'T THINK WE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1753 WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MOST ECOSYSTEMS. Q. WELL, MAYBE WE NEED TO SORT OF IDENTIFY OUR TERMS. IN YOUR OPINION, WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF INTRODUCING PHOSPHOROUS TO THE EVERGLADES THROUGH AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF? A. WELL, IF WE LOOKED AT IT ON A SCALE -- THE FIRST THING I WOULD WANT TO DO IS LOOK AT THE SCALE. THAT'S WHAT I MENTIONED THIS MORNING, LOOK AT THE MAGNITUDE OF THE EFFECTS. THE EFFECTS ARE LOCALIZED AREA, ONE OF THEM BEING PRIMARILY IN WCA-2A. Q. LOCALIZED AREA OF WHAT? A. IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL ACREAGE OF THE EVERGLADES, THE PHOSPHOROUS HAS HAD -- AN ENRICHMENT AND, AS A RESULT OF AN INCREASE IN PRODUCTIVITY, IS PRIMARILY IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS IN THE EVERGLADES. BUT IT'S LOCALIZED IN COMPARISON TO THE ENTIRE REGION. I DO NOT BELIEVE -- IF YOU LOOKED ON THE PERCENTAGE OF ACREAGE, FOR EXAMPLE, OF CHANGE EFFECTS DUE TO PHOSPHOROUS, I THINK YOU WOULD FIND, ON A SCALE FROM ZERO TO A HUNDRED, PROBABLY SOMETHING FIVE TO TEN PERCENT CHANGE, MAYBE, WHEREAS IF YOU LOOKED AT HYDROLOGY CHANGES AND ITS EFFECTS ON THE TOTAL EVERGLADES, IT WOULD BE MORE LIKE A NINETY-FIVE. Q. ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE IN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1754 DECLARING THAT THE PHOSPHOROUS LEVELS THAT HAVE BEEN GOING INTO THE EVERGLADES IN THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS WOULD REMAIN CURRENT INTO THE FUTURE? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, IN SOME OF THOSE YEARS -- WHAT AREA ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Q. IN THE EVERGLADES. IN ALL OF THE STRUCTURES, ALL OF THE PHOSPHOROUS THAT'S BLOWING IN WITH THE WATER FROM THE AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE -- AND IF YOU HAD THE ABILITY TO MAKE THIS DECISION, WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE IN SAYING "WE WILL KEEP THE PHOSPHOROUS AT THAT LEVEL INTO THE FUTURE"? MR. BURGESS: SAME OBJECTION. A. I THINK I STATED EARLIER THAT I THOUGHT THAT BECAUSE IT WAS A NUTRIENT-LIMITED SYSTEM THAT I HAD BEEN RECOMMENDING TO THE FARMERS -- AND I HAD RECOMMENDED THAT PHOSPHOROUS LEVELS BE REDUCED. Q. CAN YOU -- WOULD YOU ANSWER -- SO THAT MEANS THE ANSWER TO MY QUESTION WOULD BE, NO, YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE LEAVING IT AS IT IS CURRENTLY? A. WELL, CURRENTLY. I MEAN, IT'S BEEN REDUCED NOW IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO. IT'S REDUCED FROM WHAT IT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1755 WAS. I -- AS I UNDERSTAND, IT'S WITHIN--- Q. WELL, LET'S--- A. ---FORTY PERCENT OF REDUCTION OR SOMETHING, IS IT NOT? Q. WHERE DID YOU HEAR THAT NUMBER? A. WELL, I THOUGHT THE BMP PROPOSAL, AS I'VE HEARD FROM VARIOUS PEOPLE SAY, THAT THERE'S ALREADY SOME COMPLIANCE IN THE LAST YEAR RELATED TO SOME BMP REDUCTIONS TO MEET THE -- TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT REDUCTION, I SHOULD SAY. Q. THERE'S A BMP RULE THAT REQUIRES A TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT REDUCTION OVER A CERTAIN BASELINE; AND MY QUESTION IS WHERE DID YOU HEAR THAT THERE WAS A FORTY PERCENT REDUCTION? A. WELL, I'M SORRY I SAID -- I MIGHT HAVE SAID FORTY, BUT I MEAN TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT, I THINK IS--- Q. OKAY. I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE QUESTION I ASKED A MINUTE AGO SO THAT I THINK WE CAN DISCUSS THIS BETTER IF WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE DEFINITIONS. WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER TO BE THE EFFECTS OF PHOSPHOROUS IN AGRICULTURE RUNOFF FLOWING INTO THE EVERGLADES? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, THE EFFECTS, AS I SAID, FIRST OF ALL ARE LIMITED IN SIZE AND SCOPE IN TERMS OF THE TOTAL AREA--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1756 Q. OKAY. LET ME JUST INTERRUPT YOU IF YOU DON'T MIND, BECAUSE THE LAST TIME I ASKED YOU THIS QUESTION, YOU STARTED TELLING ME HOW IT WASN'T VERY EXPANSIVE, OR YOU STARTED GIVING ME A RELATIVE -- YOUR EVALUATION OF WHETHER IT'S A BIG DEAL OR NOT, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE. YOU'LL GET A CHANCE TO TELL ME THAT IN A MINUTE--- A. OKAY. Q. ---BUT RIGHT NOW, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS -- NOT HOW EXTENSIVE ARE THEY, BUT WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS? A. OKAY. WELL, WE'LL TAKE IT AS OUR EXPERIMENTS WOULD SHOW, AND THE DATA WOULD SHOW FROM WHAT WE'VE GONE THROUGH AND WHAT WE'VE ANALYZED, IS THAT YOU GET BIGGER PLANTS, BOTH CATTAIL AND SAWGRASS; YOU GET -- DEPENDING UPON THE HIGHER LEVELS, YOU GET SOME CHANGES IN THE ALGAL COMMUNITY; YOU GET SOME DECREASES, AS I MENTIONED THIS MORNING, AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS IN THE PERIPHYTON MAT; YOU GET AN INCREASE IN THE MACROPHYTE DENSITY, VOLUME, PRODUCTIVITY -- MACROINVERTEBRATES -- EXCUSE ME -- MACROINVERTEBRATE. Q. WAIT A SECOND. INCREASE IN MACROINVERTEBRATE WHAT? A. DIVERSITY, PRODUCTIVITY, VOLUME. YOU GET AN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1757 INCREASE IN PHOSPHOROUS STORED IN THE SOIL OR PEAT. Q. DID YOU SAY IN THE SOIL OR PEAT? A. WELL, THE SOIL, WHICH IS MOSTLY PEAT. Q. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT'S WHAT YOU MEANT. ANYTHING ELSE? A. OH, LET'S SEE. WELL, AND YOU, OF COURSE, WOULD GET SOME, DEPENDING UPON WHERE THE SOURCE WAS AND SO FORTH, YOU WOULD GET USUALLY A GRADIENT OF PHOSPHOROUS AND VARIOUS FRACTIONS OF THAT IN THE WATER COLUMN; AND THAT GRADIENT FRACTION DEPENDS UPON -- AND I'M JUST DOING THIS IN VERY GENERAL TERMS -- JUST DEPENDS ON THE LOAD AND THE CONCENTRATION AND WHERE YOU PUT IT IN AND ALL THAT STUFF BUT--- Q. WELL, I THINK FROM WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER IN YOUR DEPOSITION, YOU COULD ALSO GET DENSER CATTAILS, WOULDN'T YOU? A. WELL, I THINK YOU WOULD GET DENSER -- OR, YOU'D GET MORE PRODUCTIVITY OF CATTAILS AND YOU'D GET MORE PRODUCTIVITY OF SAWGRASS--- Q. OKAY. A. ---AND YOU'D GET AN INCREASE IN THE BIOMASS AND PRODUCTIVITY OF ALGAE. Q. IN AREAS WHERE YOU HAD CATTAILS ALREADY, YOU WOULD GET DENSER CATTAILS THAN IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1758 AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF, WOULDN'T YOU? A. WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE PREVIOUS SOIL CONDITIONS WERE. Q. WOULD YOU ALSO GET CATTAILS EXPANDED INTO MORE AREAS THAN THEY WOULD OTHERWISE BE EXPANDED INTO WITHOUT THE AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF, THE PHOSPHOROUS IN THE AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. Q. SO, YOU'D GET AN INCREASED AREA OF CATTAILS? A. IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER -- HOW THE HYDROLOGY WAS SET UP IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS. Q. WELL, WE'RE ASSUMING THAT HYDROLOGY ISN'T CHANGING, IT'S AS IT IS. THE ONLY THING WE'RE ASSUMING IS THAT THE--- A. RIGHT. Q. ---PHOSPHOROUS IS TAKEN IN OR TAKEN OUT. A. WELL, AS I SAID, THAT'S -- WE CAN LOOK AT THE EXPERIMENTS WE DID. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS TO TEASE OUT -- TRY TO TEASE OUT THE HYDROLOGY EFFECTS FROM THE -- STRICTLY THE FERTILIZER EFFECTS, AND -- AND WHEN YOU SIMPLY HAVE BEEN LOADING UP PHOSPHOROUS RIGHT NOW, INDICATES WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN, SO FAR, A GREAT EXPANSE IN THERE, BUT THESE ARE--- Q. AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION AS IT IS NOT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1759 A LOT; BUT MY QUESTION JUST IS, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT ONE IMPACT OR ONE EFFECT OF THE PHOSPHOROUS IN THE AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF IS DENSER CATTAILS? A. I THINK THAT'S A FAIR STATEMENT. Q. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT ONE EFFECT OF THE PHOSPHOROUS IN AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF IS CATTAILS IN A BROADER AREA, A LARGER AREA? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. I THINK HE SAID IT DEPENDS ON THE HYDROLOGY TWO OR THREE TIMES. A. YEAH, THE HYDROLOGY WOULD HAVE TO PLAY -- IS A COMPONENT, AS I SAID, JUST THE NUTRIENTS BY THEMSELVES BUT--- Q. I'M ASSUMING THE HYDROLOGY IS THE SAME IN BOTH; THAT'S OUR CONTROL. A. OH, OKAY. Q. ASSUMING THE HYDROLOGY IS THE SAME, IS AN EFFECT OF THE PHOSPHOROUS IN AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF CATTAILS IN MORE AREA? A. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE NATIVE SPECIES IS THERE. IF IT'S -- IF THERE'S SOMETHING ALREADY THERE, THEN IT WOULD BE--- Q. OKAY. ASSUMING THERE ARE CATTAILS ALREADY THERE, WOULD THE AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF -- PHOSPHOROUS AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF RESULT IN BROADER AREA OF CATTAILS? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1760 MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, BROADER. IT WOULD INCREASE THE GROWTH. I MEAN, IS IT -- PHOSPHOROUS IS A CATALYST FOR GROWTH OF PLANT SPECIES; SO, IT WOULD RESULT IN INCREASED GROWTH, AND IT COULD RESULT IN INCREASED EXPANSION. THE DIFFICULTY I'M HAVING IS YOU'RE GIVING ME, IN A SENSE, A HYPOTHETICAL WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE OTHER SPECIES WERE THERE. IF IT WAS DIRECTLY ABUTTING SAWGRASS, LET'S SAY, THEN I THINK WHAT YOU WOULD GET INITIALLY TO SOME POINT WOULD BE INCREASED SAWGRASS; AND CATTAIL WOULD INVADE TO THAT POINT, AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE, OBVIOUSLY, SOME COMPETITION. Q. WHO WINS THAT COMPETITION BETWEEN CATTAILS AND SAWGRASS? A. IT DEPENDS ON THE CONDITIONS THEY'RE PLACED. Q. WHAT CONDITIONS WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE? A. DROUGHT CONDITIONS--- Q. ALL RIGHT. A. ---SAWGRASS WOULD WIN. FIRE CONDITIONS, SAWGRASS WOULD WIN. FLUCTUATING HYDROPERIOD, CATTAILS WOULD WIN. Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN "FLUCTUATING HYDROPERIOD"? A. PULSED WATER, RAISING AND LOWERING WATER LEVELS, KEEPING HIGH WATER, CATTAILS WOULD WIN. DOING DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1761 THAT IN CONJUNCTION WITH ELEVATED PHOSPHOROUS, CATTAILS PROBABLY WOULD -- WOULD WIN. IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW -- WHETHER OR NOT YOU WEAKEN THE SAWGRASS SPECIES. Q. SO, IF YOUR SAWGRASS IS COMPLETELY HEALTHY, AND THERE'S NOTHING TO WEAKEN THE SAWGRASS, THE INTRODUCTION OF PHOSPHOROUS WOULD NOT PERMIT -- WOULD NOT DICTATE THAT THE CATTAILS WOULD OUT-COMPETE THE SAWGRASS? A. YOU HAVE TO FIRST GET THEM INITIATED IN THE PLANTS--- Q. ASSUMING THAT THEY'RE ALL READY. YOU'VE GOT THE STAND OF CATTAILS NEXT TO A STAND OF SAWGRASS, AND THERE'S NOTHING TO WEAKEN THE SAWGRASS. ARE THEY JUST GOING TO EACH STAY TO THEIR OWN, ASSUMING YOU'VE ADDED THE PHOSPHOROUS FROM THE AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF? A. WELL, THAT'S WHAT THE MIXED-SITE DATA SHOWS FOR PRESENT TIME. Q. SO, THAT'S YOUR OPINION? A. THAT'S MY OPINION; BUT THAT -- YOU KNOW, THAT--- Q. IN THE SCENARIO THAT YOU DEPOSIT -- WHERE THE CATTAIL WOULD OUT-COMPETE FLUCTUATING HYDROPERIOD AND SO FORTH, HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE THE CATTAIL TO INVADE AND TAKE OVER THE SAWGRASS? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1762 MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. IN MY FLUCTUATING HYDROPERIOD, DID YOU SAY? Q. YEAH, YOU GAVE ME -- YOU SAID THAT IN -- WITH THE PULSED WATER AND FLUCTUATING HYDROPERIOD, THE CATTAIL WOULD OUT-COMPETE THE SAWGRASS, AND MY QUESTION IS, OVER WHAT PERIOD OF TIME--- MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO FORM. Q. ---WOULD YOU EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN? MR. GREEN: STILL OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, I CAN ONLY SAY AFTER FOUR YEARS OF DOING THIS, RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT IT HAS DONE SO. IT'S HARD TO SAY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN AT A LATER TIME. Q. AND THAT'S IN THE COMPLETELY SUBMERGED PLOT, IS THAT CORRECT, AS I REMEMBER FROM THIS MORNING? A. COMPLETELY SUBMERGED PLOT--- Q. YEAH, IN YOUR--- A. ---THE MIXED PLOT WITH THE FLUCTUATING WATER LEVELS. Q. OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUR FERTILIZER STUDY? A. CORRECT. Q. I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT YOUR DOSING STUDIES. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1763 A. THAT ONE IS GOING INTO ITS FOURTH YEAR, AND OBSERVATIONALLY, WE SEE NO INCREASE. Q. WHICH IS GOING INTO ITS FOURTH YEAR? A. THE FERTILIZER STUDY. Q. WELL, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN CATTAILS OUT-COMPETE SAWGRASS IN -- WHERE YOU HAVE FLUCTUATING HYDROPERIOD? HAVE YOU EVER OBSERVED THAT PHENOMENA? A. WHERE WE HAD FLUCTUATING HYDROPERIOD? Q. YEAH. A. WELL, DEPENDING ON HOW IT'S FLUCTUATING, BUT I'VE SEEN PLACES WHERE -- NEAR THE GATE STRUCTURES WHERE WE HAVE LOW PHOSPHOROUS APPARENTLY COMING IN IN A NUMBER OF SITES. WE DO SEE SOME CATTAILS SOUTH OF SOME OF THE OTHER GATE STRUCTURES, WHICH INDICATES BASICALLY IT'S CONDUCIVE FOR CATTAILS TO COME IN TO THOSE SITES. Q. OKAY. MR. GREEN: BEN, WHILE YOU'RE LOOKING THROUGH YOUR NEXT QUESTION, I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT YOUR ESTIMATE IS ABOUT THE TIME--- MR. REID: I WAS GOING TO GO--- MR. GREEN: ---WE NEED TO GET OUR CONFERENCE CALLS. WHATEVER--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1764 MR. REID: WHAT TIME IS IT? MR. GREEN: IT'S TWO OR THREE MINUTES BEFORE FIVE. MR. REID: WELL, I WAS GOING TO GO NOT PAST SIX, AND MAYBE A LITTLE BEFORE. MR. GREEN: WELL, WE NEED TO GET TO OUR HOTEL BEFORE THE SIX O'CLOCK CALL, SO QUARTER TO SIX WOULD BE FINE. MR. REID: ALL RIGHT. MR. BURGESS: HOW ABOUT YOU, CURT? WITNESS: I HAVE SOME OBLIGATIONS. I MEAN, I'M -- I WAS TOLD--- MR. REID: THAT'S FINE, WE CAN QUIT NOW. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER, REGARDING THE SCHEDULE.) -------------------------------------------------- (THEREUPON, THE DEPOSITION OF DR. RICHARDSON WAS RECESSED AT 5:04 P.M. TO BE RESUMED AT 8:30 A.M. ON MARCH 31, 1994.) DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1765 -------------------------------------------------- THE FOLLOWING PORTION OF THE DEPOSITION OF DR. CURTIS J. RICHARDSON, WAS TAKEN ON THE 31ST DAY OF MARCH, 1994, BEGINNING AT OR AROUND 8:40 A.M. AT THE HILTON HOTEL, 3800 HILLSBOROUGH ROAD, THE EXECUTIVE BOARD ROOM, DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA, AND WAS REPORTED BY CAROL S. YOUNG, A NOTARY PUBLIC. -------------------------------------------------- EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. DR. RICHARDSON, YESTERDAY WHEN WE BROKE, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT -- WE WERE LOOKING AT EXHIBIT TWO, WHICH WAS YOUR MOST RECENT ANNUAL REPORT, AS WELL AS SOME OF YOUR MORE RECENT SUPPLEMENTS TO THAT. YOU HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF YOU. WOULD YOU TURN TO PAGE ROMAN NUMERAL XXIV? A. OKAY. Q. I'M LOOKING AT ROMAN NUMERAL II, UNDER "GENERAL OBJECTIVE TWO," WHICH RELATES TO LONG-TERM NUTRIENT STORAGE CAPACITY. THE FIRST ITEM THAT'S MENTIONED IS THE GRADIENT STUDY. THAT'S THE ONE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT AT SOME LENGTH YESTERDAY WITH THE THREE LINES AND SO FORTH, THE SIX -- SITES AT IN EACH LINE? A. CORRECT. Q. OKAY. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1766 WITNESS: WELL, HE SAID ROMAN NUMERAL II. I'M NOT SURE WHERE ROMAN NUMERAL II IS, BUT--- MR. REID: IT'S RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, IT SAYS "GENERAL OBJECTIVE." WITNESS: ON PAGE XXIV, ROMAN--- MR. GREEN: XXVI, PAGE XXVI. MR. REID: OH, I'M SORRY, I'VE TURNED THE WRONG WAY. I MUST HAVE DYSLEXIA THIS MORNING. Q. (BY MR. REID) THE GRADIENT STUDY ON THE PAGE BEFORE, I SEE. LOOKING AT THE ONE ON PAGE XXVI -- I'M SORRY -- UNDER ROMAN NUMERAL II, THAT'S THE SAME GRADIENT STUDY, YOU'RE JUST USING IT AS -- UNDER "GENERAL OBJECTIVE TWO," AS WELL? A. RIGHT. WELL, THAT GRADIENT STUDY HAS A NUMBER OF SUB-PROJECTS UNDERNEATH IT. Q. SURE. OKAY. NOW, WAS IT YOUR GOAL AS PART OF THIS GENERAL OBJECTIVE TWO, TO DETERMINE ACREAGE OF STA'S? A. NO. Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY CONCERN AT ALL, ULTIMATELY, WITH WHAT THE STORAGE -- OR HOW THE STORAGE RATE WOULD RELATE TO ACREAGE OF LAND FOR TREATMENT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1767 MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. NO, THE PURPOSE OF THIS STUDY, WHICH WE STARTED IN THE -- AS I MENTIONED TO YOU AS ONE OF OUR FIRST OBJECTIVES WAS REALLY TO LOOK AT PHOSPHORUS -- THE ENTIRE PHOSPHORUS CYCLE; AND ONE OF THE KEY ASPECTS OF THAT WAS TO LOOK AT STORAGE OF NUTRIENTS, MORE OF AN ECOLOGICAL BASE. AND, AS I MENTIONED -- OR, IF I DIDN'T THE OTHER DAY -- THE FIRST FEW YEARS OF THIS PROJECT WERE PRIMARILY JUST FOCUSED ON TRYING TO OBTAIN THE BEST UNDERSTANDING OF THE PHOSPHORUS CYCLE. Q. LOOK AT ON PAGE XXVII. A. ROMAN NUMERAL XXVII? Q. YES, THE NEXT PAGE--- A. OKAY. Q. ---ITEMS SEVEN AND EIGHT SEEM TO BE TALKING IN TERMS OF ACREAGE AND REMOVAL RATES AND SO FORTH. WOULD YOU LOOK AT THOSE, PLEASE? A. CORRECT. THE SEVENTH ONE TALKS ABOUT THE BUDGET THAT I TALKED ABOUT. Q. RIGHT. AND THAT'S THE ONE WHERE YOU BELIEVE THAT THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT HAS THE -- NUMBER EIGHT, RATHER, HAS THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT ESTIMATE OF 13,200 HECTARES, IN ORDER TO REMOVE ONE HUNDRED METERS -- I MEAN, ONE HUNDRED METRIC TONS OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1768 PHOSPHORUS A YEAR. DO YOU SEE THAT? A. NO. WHERE ARE YOU READING THAT? Q. NUMBER EIGHT. A. YES, I SEE THAT. Q. NOW, AND YOU SAY THAT YOUR FINDINGS SUGGEST TWICE THAT, OR NEARLY TWICE THAT, 23,000 HECTARES. DO YOU SEE THAT? A. YES. Q. WHAT DO YOU BASE THAT NUMBER ONE? A. THAT NUMBER IS BASED ON WHAT WE ACTUALLY FIND IN THE GROUND, AND -- WHICH WE BASICALLY SAW IN THE -- AND SINCE 2A IS AN AREA THAT HAS BEEN RECEIVING AGRICULTURAL WATER, AND WE TRIED TO -- WE DID, WE ESTIMATED -- WE PICKED -- OUR TECHNIQUE WAS TO ESTIMATE THE STORAGE IN THE GROUND; AND SINCE WE HAD DISTRICT INFORMATION ON THE LOADS FOR THAT AREA, WE WERE ABLE TO DETERMINE AN ACTUAL WEIGHTED STORAGE IN THE GROUND. AND THAT GIVES US A FIELD ESTIMATE WITH SOME TANGIBLES, I MEAN, YOU CAN PUT YOUR HANDS ON, IN TERMS OF GIVEN THOSE CONDITIONS OF WHAT RATE WOULD BE STORED, AND SO THE WEIGHTED AVERAGE FOR THAT IS .44 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED, AND WITH THAT WEIGHTED AVERAGE, THAT WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU WOULD HAVE SO MANY GRAMS PER METER SQUARED, OR SO MANY METRIC TONS PER HECTARE, AND, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1769 THEREFORE, YOU CAN TRANSLATE THAT. Q. FIRST OF ALL, TELL ME HOW MANY ACRES ARE IN A HECTARE, OR THE REVERSE, IF IT'S EASIER. A. 2.47 IS THE CONVERSION FACTOR. Q. IT'S 2.47 ACRES PER HECTARE? A. OR BASICALLY YOU CAN MULTIPLY -- YES, OR YOU CAN TAKE ACRES AND MULTIPLY BY .404. IT WORKS OUT VERY CONVENIENTLY. IT'S THE SAME AS THE 404 REGULATION, SO YOU CAN REMEMBER IT, JUST PUT A POINT IN FRONT OF IT. Q. OKAY. NOW, COULD YOU TELL ME IF THE ESTIMATE IN PARAGRAPH EIGHT IS THE MOST CURRENT ESTIMATE AT THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, OR YOU HAVE ARRIVED AT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WHAT -- ESTIMATE FOR WHAT? Q. THE ESTIMATE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. A. THE .44 GRAMS IS OUR CURRENT ESTIMATE OF THE STORAGE OF -- WEIGHTED STORAGE PER UNIT AREA PER YEAR, UTILIZING THE CESIUM 137 TECHNIQUE. Q. AND THAT -- THEN IT'S JUST A MATTER OF SIMPLE ARITHMETIC TO GET TO THE -- TO REMOVE A HUNDRED METRIC TONS, TO GET TO THE 13,200 -- I'M SORRY -- THE 23,000 HECTARES? A. IT'S A FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD CALCULATION. Q. NOW, WOULD YOU LOOK AT EXHIBIT THREE, AND DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1770 EXHIBIT FOUR, AND TELL ME IF THERE'S ANYTHING IN THOSE THAT UPDATES THIS PARTICULAR ESTIMATE, OR CHANGES THE ESTIMATE IN ANY WAY? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENTS.) A. I DON'T SEE ANY INFORMATION IN THESE -- EXCUSE ME, I'VE GOT A FROG IN MY THROAT THIS MORNING -- I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY ADDITIONS IN THIS PARTICULAR QUARTERLY REPORT OR MONTHLY REPORT AS YOU'VE SHOWN ME, NO. Q. WELL, DO YOU WANT TO GLANCE AT THE -- I'VE LOOKED AT THE OTHER ONES, AND I DON'T SEEM TO SEE ANY -- WHY DON'T YOU JUST GLANCE AT THOSE, AND TELL ME IF THERE ARE ANY -- IF THERE'S ANY DATA, REALLY, IN ANY OF THOSE -- AND CALL OUT THE NUMBERS YOU'RE LOOKING AT AS YOU LOOK AT THEM, SO WE CAN PUT THEM ASIDE IF THERE IS NOT. THAT SEEMS JUST TO BE A SUMMARY OF ACTIVITY IN EACH OF THOSE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENTS.) A. THERE'S SOME DATA IN THIS PARTICULAR--- Q. OKAY, WHICH ONE? A. EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE. Q. AND WHAT DATA IS IN THERE? A. THERE ARE TWO ADDITIONAL CORES THAT ARE NOTED HERE, .5 KILOMETERS, APPROXIMATELY, DOWNSTREAM OF THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1771 HILLSBORO CANAL. Q. WHAT PAGE IS THAT ON? A. PAGE SIX. Q. DOES IT HAVE DATA ABOUT IT, OR DOES IT JUST SAY THAT YOU DID IT? A. IT HAS THE DATA. Q. OKAY. A. DO YOU WANT THE DATA -- YOU WANT THE--- Q. WHAT -- WELL, LET ME LOOK AT IT. (THEREUPON, MR. REID REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) Q. (BY MR. REID) WHERE ARE THE TWO NEW CORES, PARAGRAPH TWO? A. RIGHT. Q. OKAY. ARE THESE THE TWO THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, THE THREE NEW CORES THAT WERE ADDED? A. CORRECT. Q. OKAY. NOW--- A. DO WE LOOK AT THE REST OF THESE? Q. YEAH, JUST KEEP LOOKING AT THOSE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENTS.) A. EXCUSE ME, WHAT WAS THE DATE ON THIS ONE? Q. EXHIBIT FIVE? A. YEAH, THAT WAS MARCH OF '93, YEAH. I ASSUME WE'RE GOING BACK IN TIME. I'M JUST TRYING TO -- EXCUSE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1772 ME -- MY GLASSES ARE -- (WITNESS CLEANS GLASSES) THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION ON PAGE SEVEN. Q. OF WHAT EXHIBIT? A. EXHIBIT SIX. Q. AND WHAT INFORMATION IS THAT? A. I'M NOT SURE IT GIVES A DIRECT -- THE DIRECT CORE RATES. IT TALKS ABOUT SOME PHOSPHORUS STORAGE RATES NEAR THE E GATE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. AND I THINK THAT'S IT. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING THERE. Q. ALL RIGHT. NOW, DOES ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE SEEN CAUSE YOU TO CHANGE THE ESTIMATE OF THE STORAGE RATE OR THE ACREAGE ESTIMATE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT ON PAGE XXVII OF EXHIBIT TWO? A. WELL, AS I SAID YESTERDAY, AND SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE, THE ACREAGE IS PREDICATED ON THE RATE OF STORAGE IN THE GROUND, THE .44 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR BASIS. WE HAVE NOT ADDED -- WE HAVE NOT RECALCULATED, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE -- A NEW WEIGHTED AVERAGE, WITH THE HALF CORES IN PLACE. Q. THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY NEXT QUESTION. YOU HAVEN'T? A. WE HAVE NOT YET. WE PROBABLY WILL DO SO, BUT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1773 I HAVE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO DO THAT. Q. SO, THIS WOULD BE YOUR MOST CURRENT ESTIMATE, THEN? A. WELL, I THINK THE MOST RECENT ONE -- THIS, AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY, THIS IS A DRAFT CHAPTER THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN BIOGEOCHEMISTRY, AND SO WE ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT A DRAFT OF A CHAPTER THAT IS FROM A REPORT THAT IS AT LEAST TWO STEPS REMOVED FROM WHAT WE ACTUALLY PUBLISHED, SO. Q. DO YOU USE CESIUM, THE CESIUM TECHNIQUE IN THIS ANALYSIS? A. WE USED CES -- WE HAD USED CESIUM 137, THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND YOU DETERMINED THE CONCENTRATION OF PHOSPHORUS IN THE PEAT THAT HAD BEEN DEPOSITED OVER A TWENTY-SIX YEAR PERIOD? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. BUT DID YOU USE THE AVERAGE OVER THAT TWENTY-SIX YEAR PERIOD--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. Q. ---IN YOUR CALCULATION? A. DID WE USE THE AVERAGE, THE AVERAGE OF WHAT? Q. THE AVERAGE OF PEAT PER YEAR? A. YOU MEAN THE PEAT ACCRETION? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1774 Q. YES. A. YOU END UP WITH AN ESTIMATE OF PEAT ACCRETION OVER A KNOWN TIME, THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND WOULD THAT BE AN AVERAGE, PER YEAR, ACCRETION? A. YOU END UP WITH AN -- YOU CAN END UP WITH AN AVERAGE NUMBER. THERE'S NO WAY FROM JUST ONE TIME POINT. THAT'S THE STANDARD WAY PEOPLE DO THIS. THERE'S A POSSIBILITY YOU COULD GO TO 54 WHEN THE PEAT DOESN'T EXIST. WE ALSO CORROBORATED THIS WITH SOME LEAD 210 DATA WE--- Q. BUT, AS I UNDERSTAND, ONCE YOU DETERMINE THE AMOUNT OF PEAT THAT HAD ACCUMULATED OVER THE TWENTY-SIX YEAR PERIOD, YOUR TASK WAS TO MAKE AN ESTIMATE HOW MUCH WOULD BE ACCUMULATED ON A YEARLY BASIS, AND THAT'S WHERE YOU CAME UP WITH THIS .44 GRAMS TIMES METERS SQUARED, PER YEAR. IS THAT CORRECT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. YOU WOULD HAVE -- YOU HAVE TO ASSUME AN AVERAGE PEAT ACCRETION RATE. HOWEVER, YOU DO NOT -- BUT YOU -- BUT WE THEN DETERMINED BULK DENSITIES EVERY ONE AND A HALF CENTIMETERS, AND PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS EVERY ONE AND A HALF CENTIMETERS, TO OBTAIN A PROFILE. SO, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO ASSUME THE SAME PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION, OBVIOUSLY, NOR THE SAME DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1775 BULK DENSITY. Q. BUT WHEN YOU GIVE ME A NUMBER SUCH AS THE POINT FOUR FOUR (.44), THAT TELLS ME THAT IT'S YOUR ESTIMATE, THAT AS WE GO INTO THE FUTURE, ONE COULD EXPECT THAT AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS TO BE STORED EACH YEAR? A. THIS IS -- IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. THAT'S -- THAT IS A WEIGHTED AVERAGE. I HAVE NUMBERS THAT ARE HIGHER THAN THAT, AND NUMBERS THAT ARE LOWER THAN THAT. BUT, BY AND LARGE, IT WOULD BE IN THAT AREA. WHERE THE NUTRIENTS WERE ADDED, THIS DATA IN THE FIELD SHOWS VERY CLEARLY THAT YOU CAN EXPECT TO GET .44 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED, ON THE AVERAGE, STORED. Q. AND WOULD THIS KIND OF DATA BE THE DATA THAT AN ENGINEER WOULD THEN UTILIZE IN DETERMINING WHAT SIZE TO MAKE AN STA? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I THINK ENGINEERS USE -- VERY SELDOM USE THIS TYPE OF DATA, AS A MATTER OF FACT. Q. WELL, THAT WASN'T MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION IS, IS THIS -- IS -- DOES -- I'M TRYING TO SEE HOW THIS DATA FITS INTO THE GRAND SCHEME. IS THIS THE KIND OF DATA THAT COULD BE USED BY AN ENGINEER IN DECIDING THE SIZE TO MAKE A PARTICULAR STA? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1776 A. IT COULD BE ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT COULD BE USED. Q. A MINUTE AGO, YOU SAID THAT ENGINEERS SELDOM USE THIS KIND OF INFORMATION. DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY DON'T USE THIS KIND OF INFORMATION? A. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, MOST ENGINEERS DON'T WORK ON WETLANDS; AND SECONDLY, THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION DOESN'T EXIST FOR MANY WETLAND SYSTEMS. THERE ARE VERY FEW PLACES IN THE ENTIRE WORLD THAT HAVE THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION SPECIFICALLY CALCULATED, ESPECIALLY IN THIS DETAIL, AND SO THIS INFORMATION IS USUALLY NOT AVAILABLE. Q. OKAY, IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY SEE SOME FALLACY IN THIS APPROACH, FOR INSTANCE? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I'M NOT SURE WHAT APPROACH YOU'RE REFERRING TO. THIS -- THIS IS A FIELD TECHNIQUE THAT'S USED BY ECOLOGISTS, FOR A LONG TIME, TO BASIC -- TO COME UP WITH AN ESTIMATE OF STORAGE CAPACITY IN SYSTEMS. NOW, ENGINEERS MAY, YOU KNOW, UTILIZE PART OF THIS, AS WELL AS SOME OTHER ASPECTS. Q. HOW DOES THIS NUMBER RELATE TO THE NUMBER THAT WE REFERRED TO AS THE SETTLING RATE? A. HOW DOES IT -- I -- THE SETTLING RATE? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1777 Q. YEAH, OF GRAM -- OF METERS PER YEAR. A. WELL, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THE METERS PER YEAR CAN BE CALCULATED SEVERAL WAYS. IT'S A SIMPLE LUMPED PARAMETER THAT IS -- FOLLOWS A FIRST ORDER MODEL. IT'S NOTHING VERY FANCY OR ELABORATE, AND IT CAN BE CALCULATED FROM A LOSS OF MATERIALS FROM THE WATER COLUMN, WHICH IS VERY TYPICALLY DONE BY ENGINEERS, OR IT CAN BE RELATED TO THE AMOUNT STORED. IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT'S STORED IN THE GROUND. Q. CAN YOU TAKE THIS NUMBER THAT YOU HAVE, AND CONVERT THAT TO A SETTLING RATE OF METERS PER YEAR? A. PROBABLY NOT DIRECTLY BY ITSELF. YOU'D NEED SOME OTHER INFORMATION, BUT--- Q. WHAT WOULD YOU NEED? A. WELL, YOU PROBABLY WOULD WANT TO -- YOU -- I'LL TELL YOU -- YOU PROBABLY WOULD NEED SOME INFORMATION ON LOADS AND SO FORTH IF YOU WANTED TO DO THAT. Q. DO YOU KNOW THE REASON THAT YOU WERE ASKED TO CALCULATE THE STORAGE CAPACITY--- MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. Q. ---THE PHOSPHORUS STORAGE CAPACITY IN THIS AREA? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. THE REASON I WAS ASKED--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1778 Q. YEAH. A. ---TO CALCULATE THE STORAGE? Q. YES. A. IN THIS AREA? Q. YEAH, WHY WERE YOU ASKED TO DO THIS PARTICULAR -- THIS PIECE OF THE ASSIGNMENT--- MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. Q. ---WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR DOING IT? A. WELL, I DON'T THINK I WAS EVER REALLY GIVEN AN ASSIGNMENT. WHEN I WAS ORIGINALLY BROUGHT INTO THIS PROJECT, I WAS ASKED TO STUDY THE MAJOR PROBLEM AS IT WAS DEEMED FOR THE EVERGLADES. AND, AT THAT TIME, I WAS TOLD IT WAS CATTAILS. AND AFTER MY PILOT PROJECT, I -- WHEN I WROTE THE FIRST GRANT, I INFORMED THE PEOPLE IN THE AGRICULTURAL BUSINESS THAT IT WAS MY ESTIMATION THAT THE REAL ISSUES WOULD BE BROUGHT TO BEAR IN THE LONG-TERM, THE HYDROLOGY, BUT IN THE SHORT-TERM, THE PHOSPHORUS STORAGE, PHOSPHORUS CAPACITY, UNDERSTANDING THE PHOSPHORUS CYCLE, AS IT RELATES TO THE VEGETATION, AND NUTRIENTS, PER SE; AND THE INTERACTION OF THE NUTRIENTS AND HYDROPERIOD WOULD BE THE KEY TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO MANAGE THE EVERGLADES, AND SO I PURSUED THAT. Q. WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO PURSUE -- WHY DID YOU DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1779 BELIEVE THAT, AS YOU'VE SAID IT, THE SHORT-TERM PROBLEM WAS UNDERSTANDING THE PHOSPHORUS CYCLE? A. WELL, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THE EVERGLADES ARE A PHOSPHORUS LIMITED SYSTEM, AND THERE IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DISTRICT INFORMATION, NO QUESTION THAT THERE IS ADDITIONAL TONNAGE OF PHOSPHORUS BEING ADDED TO THE SYSTEM. SO, ESSENTIALLY, WE WERE LOOKING AT WHAT THE CAPACITY WOULD BE FOR THESE SYSTEMS TO HOLD PHOSPHORUS. MY CONCERN WOULD BE, AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN, WHETHER OR NOT AREAS LIKE THE PARK, AND OTHER REGIONS, WOULD BE RECEIVING ADDITIONAL AMOUNTS OF NUTRIENTS FROM THE NORTH. Q. BUT WHY WAS THAT OF CONCERN TO YOU, THAT THERE WAS ADDITIONAL LOADING OF PHOSPHORUS, AND THAT THE PARK WAS RECEIVING ADDITIONAL NUTRIENTS FROM THE NORTH? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, AS I SAID AT THAT -- AT THAT TIME, THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER OR NOT, IN FACT, AS THE NEWSPAPERS WERE BEING BROUGHT TO BEAR, AND SOME OF THE MEETINGS THAT I HAD WITH THE DISTRICT STAFF, AND ALSO AT THE BOARD, THERE WAS GREAT CONCERNS OVER CATTAIL EXPANSIONS. THE STORY WAS THEY WERE EXPANDING AT FOUR ACRES PER DAY, AND THERE WAS CONCERNS OF WHETHER OR NOT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1780 -- AND HOW PHOSPHORUS COULD BE STORED, AND SO I HAD WORKED FOR YEARS ON NUTRIENT RETENTION AND CAPACITY IN WETLANDS, SO, IT SEEMED RATHER OBVIOUS THAT ONE WOULD STUDY -- I STUDIED PHOSPHORUS CYCLING FOR FIFTEEN TO SEVENTEEN YEARS, AND SO I WOULD TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMICS OF PHOSPHORUS IN THE SYSTEM. Q. DID THEY ASK YOU TO UNDERTA -- DID THEY ASK YOU TO UNDERTAKE ANY STUDIES, OR ANY RESEARCH WITH REGARD TO THE SODIUM PROBLEM IN THE EVERGLADES? MR. GREEN: OBJECTION TO FORM. A. I WAS NEVER TOLD -- I WAS NEVER TOLD -- EPD HAS NEVER REALLY GIVEN ME ANY DIRECTION IN TERMS OF THIS. THE ONLY DIRECTION I EVER GOT FROM THE EPD BOARD, WAS ONE DIRECTION, AND THAT WAS WHEN I ESTABLISHED THE INITIAL GRANT, AND TRIED -- AND PRESENTED TO THE BOARD, I WAS GIVEN -- I SUBMITTED THAT PROPOSAL. I HAD TO MAKE A PRESENTATION BEFORE THE BOARD AS TO WHAT I PROPOSED. AND I PROPOSED TO STUDY THE CATTAIL ISSUE IN GREAT DETAIL, IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING ITS DYNAMICS IN FAR MORE DETAIL THAN WE HAVE, AND I WAS ALSO TO PROPOSE TO STUDY THE HOLEYLAND AREA. AND I WAS TOLD EMPHATICALLY BY TOM MacVICAR ON THAT BOARD THAT THE CATTAIL ISSUE WAS NOT AN ISSUE, AND MORE -- IN MOST STRONG TERMS -- THAT, IN FACT, THERE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1781 WAS NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER IN THE HOLEYLAND BEING LOOKED AT, SINCE THAT WAS A STATE PIECE OF LAND, AND THERE WAS NO REASON FOR THE EPD TO BE DIRECTING THEIR RESEARCH TOWARDS THE HOLEYLAND, OR THAT ISSUE. AND SO I REVISED THE PROPOSAL -- THAT WAS MY ONLY REVISION -- AT THE BOARD'S RECOMMENDATION, AND DROPPED ONE SET OF EXPERIMENTS, AND THE HOLEYLAND STUDY. Q. DID THE EPD ISSUE AN RFP FOR THIS WORK THAT YOU ULTIMATELY DID? A. I'M NOT SURE. I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW THAT THE -- I WAS ASKED TO SUBMIT A PROPOSAL. I CAN'T SAY IF THEY SUBMITTED A--- Q. WELL, YOU SAID THAT THEY'VE NEVER GIVEN YOU ANY INSTRUCTION ABOUT THE -- YOUR RESEARCH, THAT YOU CAME UP WITH THAT, EXCEPT THAT MR. MacVICAR TOLD YOU TO NOT TO RESEARCH THE HOLEYLAND. IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. WITNESS: COULD YOU REPEAT THAT? Q. (BY MR. REID) DID I UNDERSTAND YOU TO SAY THAT YOU WEREN'T GIVEN ANY INSTRUCTION OR DIRECTION BY THE EPD, AS TO WHAT TO RESEARCH, OTHER THAN MR. MacVICAR, YOU SAY, TOLD YOU NOT TO DO RESEARCH IN THE HOLEYLANDS. IS THAT TRUE? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1782 A. WELL, THEY -- IN TERMS OF THE EXPERIMENTS, THE THINGS THAT I WAS DO, HOW I DID THEM, WHERE I DID THEM, WHAT TECHNIQUES I USED, WHAT APPROACH, OR WHAT TOPICS, I HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN ANY SPECIFIC DIRECTIONS. Q. YOU'VE NOT BEEN GIVEN ANY? YOUR VOICE CRACKED. I DIDN'T HEAR. A. HAVE NOT. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU CAME UP WITH THE THREE GENERAL OBJECTIVES THAT ARE CONTAINED IN YOUR EXHIBIT TWO? A. YES, I CAME UP WITH THOSE. Q. AND, I GUESS ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE, THEN, IS WHY DID YOU NOT COME UP WITH ANY GENERAL OBJECTIVE THAT RELATES TO SODIUM, SINCE YOU BELIEVE THAT'S A STRESSOR OF THE EVERGLADES, WHILE YOU BELIEVE PHOSPHORUS IS NOT A STRESSOR OF THE EVERGLADES? A. WELL, AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHEN WE STARTED OUR STUDIES IN THE EVERGLADES SYSTEM, WE HAD NO IDEA ABOUT ANY OTHER IONS. I DIDN'T HAVE ANY IDEA. SO, I THINK THIS IS A CASE IN POINT. WE HAVE BEEN STUDYING ALL SORTS OF THINGS RELATED TO THE EVERGLADES, AND SO OUR SODIUM STUDY IS SORT OF SERENDIPITY. IT'S ONLY OUT OF SCIENTIFIC CURIOSITY THAT WE CAME UPON SODIUM. WE'VE COME UPON -- WE'VE COME UPON A NUMBER OF THINGS. WE JUST -- AS MY SCIENCE CREW -- WE WORK, WE GET IDEAS, WE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1783 JUST -- WE DO THEM. Q. BUT YOU DID GO IN, BEFORE YOU DID ANY WORK, THINKING YOU WANTED TO LOOK AT PHOSPHORUS, DIDN'T YOU? A. I BELIEVE THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT PHOSPHORUS WAS ONE OF THE KEY ISSUES. Q. AND WHO TOLD YOU THAT PHOSPHORUS WAS A KEY ISSUE? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, AS I SAID, I THINK ORIGINALLY, THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT WAS, THAT I WAS GIVEN, AFTER HAVING AN OVERVIEW OF THAT, WAS WE THINK WE HAVE A CATTAIL PROBLEM, AND A CATTAIL ISSUE, AND WE WANT TO SEE IF WE CAN ADDRESS THIS ISSUE, AND SEE IF IT'S REAL AND HOW IT CAN BE SOLVED. AND AFTER SPENDING THAT FIRST YEAR THERE, AND ALSO AFTER DOING A LOT OF FIELDWORK, I SAID I BELIEVE THE CATTAIL ISSUE, FROM AT LEAST A FIRST CUT, IS NOT THE ISSUE. Q. WHAT DID YOU THINK THE ISSUE WAS? A. I SAID I BELIEVE THE ISSUE IS HYDROPERIOD AND NUTRIENTS, AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO -- IF WE'RE GOING TO SAVE THE EVERGLADES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE CAUSES, RATHER THAN LOOK AT A PARTICULAR SPECIES. Q. AND SINCE YOU DECIDED THE PROBLEM WAS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1784 HYDROPERIOD AND NUTRIENTS, THAT IS WHAT LED YOU TO THE RESEARCH YOU -- THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED IN EXHIBIT TWO? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. HE SAID THE ISSUE WAS HYDROPERIOD AND NUTRIENTS. WITNESS: I'M SORRY, REPEAT THE QUESTION. Q. (BY MR. REID) AND AFTER YOU DECIDED THE ISSUE WAS HYDROPERIOD AND NUTRIENTS, THAT LED YOU TO THE RESEARCH YOU DID THAT'S REFLECTED IN EXHIBIT TWO? A. WELL, IT ALLOWED US TO SET UP SOME HYPOTHESES AND TO DO THE VARIOUS STUDIES, YES. Q. NOW, IF YOU WOULD MOVE AHEAD TO PAGE ROMAN NUMERAL XXIX OF YOUR -- OF EXHIBIT TWO. YOU MENTIONED A GREENHOUSE EXPERIMENT. A. WHICH NUMBER ARE YOU ONE? Q. NUMBER ONE, ROMAN NUMERAL III, NUMBER 1. A. CORRECT. Q. IS THAT -- THE GREENHOUSE EXPERIMENT, DOES IT GO BY ANY OTHER NAME? A. NO. THIS IS A MASTER'S STUDENT. Q. AND IS IT STILL GOING ON? A. NO. IT WAS A SIX-MONTH STUDY. Q. AND YOU FOUND -- TELL ME HOW THE STUDY WAS SET UP? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1785 A. THIS WAS A STUDY, ACTUALLY UNDER DR. CRAFT'S GUIDANCE. I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THIS. Q. YOU DON'T REMEMBER HOW IT WAS SET UP? A. WELL, IT WAS -- NOT IN SPECIFIC DETAILS. IT WAS A POT STUDY. I DON'T REMEMBER THE NUMBER OF REPLICATES. I MEAN, THIS IS ONE OF THE STUDIES. WE COULD GO BACK AND IF THERE'S A PIECE IN HERE FURTHER BACK, WE COULD LOOK AT IT. BUT, ESSENTIALLY, THIS WAS A SIX-MONTH STUDY TO -- ESSENTIALLY WE GREW SAWGRASS, AND SHE WAS TRYING TO ESSENTIALLY LOOK AT INCREASED PHOSPHORUS ADDITIONS, AND A CONSTANT FLOODING LEVEL ON SAWGRASS. AND AFTER SIX MONTHS, THAT WAS SUFFICIENT FOR HER MASTER'S WORK AND THAT WAS TERMINATED. Q. OKAY. SO, AFTER SIX MONTHS, THERE WAS NO EFFECT OF INCREASING PHOSPHORUS, OR WHAT WE'LL CALL EXTENDED HYDROPERIOD, CONSTANT FLOODING, ON THE GRASS. IS THAT CORRECT? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. IT SAYS AFTER THAT SHORT TIME STUDY THAT NO EFFECT OF INCREASED PHOSPHORUS OR -- IT WAS A CONSTANT FLOODING LEVEL. IT WAS A -- IT WAS UNFORTUNATE, I THINK -- AND LET'S SEE, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, BECAUSE OF THE POTS SHE CHOSE AND SO FORTH, SHE WAS NOT ABLE TO EITHER PULSE WATER, OR SHE WAS NOT ABLE TO RAISE THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1786 WATER SUFFICIENTLY, I BELIEVE. I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE DATA, BUT I BELIEVE THE -- EVEN THOUGH IT WAS CONSTANT FLOODING, IT WAS NOT SUFFICIENT DEPTH TO MATCH WHAT TOTH -- WE ORIGINALLY WERE BASING SOME OF THIS ON WHAT TOTH'S STUDIES WERE, HIS RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT I DON'T THINK SHE WAS ABLE TO MATCH THE HYDROPERIOD, OR THE FLOODING DEPTH, REALLY. SO--- Q. THAT DOESN'T APPEAR IN ANY OF THE PAPERS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE, DOES IT? A. WHAT DOESN'T APPEAR? Q. WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THE FACT THAT SHE USED THE WRONG POTS, AND SHE WASN'T ABLE TO RECREATE PULSE WATER, ISN'T THAT--- A. NO, I'M SIMPLY TELLING YOU--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM, MISCHARACTERIZES HIS TESTIMONY. Q. (BY MR. REID) WELL, IS IT HERE ANYWHERE--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. Q. ---OR IS THAT JUST SOMETHING YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW? A. I THINK IF YOU LOOKED AT THE THESIS, IT WOULD -- THIS WOULD BE MENTIONED IN THE THESIS. Q. WELL, WAS THE THESIS PRODUCED? A. YES, IT WAS. Q. OKAY, WHEN WAS IT PRODUCED? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1787 A. IT WAS PRODUCED LAST TIME. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT'S THIS GRADUATE STUDENT'S NAME, SO I CAN LOOK FOR HER THESIS. A. JANE RAIKES. WAIT A MINUTE -- NO, I'M SORRY. THIS IS NOT JANE. LET'S SEE -- IT'S -- BECAUSE THERE WERE TWO OF THEM THAT WERE DOING THIS. I THINK THIS WAS -- WHAT'S THE YOUNG GAL FROM TEXAS. OH, LET'S SEE IF SHE'S MENTIONED HERE, LORI SUTTER. Q. HOW DO YOU SPELL HER LAST NAME? S-U--- A. T-T-E-R. Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IN YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT PULSED WATER OR DEEP WATER WILL KILL SAWGRASS OVER, SAY, A TEN TO TWENTY YEAR PERIOD? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. OVER A TEN TO TWENTY YEAR PERIOD? Q. OVER A LENGTHY PERIOD, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SAWGRASS WILL ULTIMATELY BE KILLED, WILL NOT SURVIVE PULSED WATER, OR CONSISTENTLY DEEP WATER? MR. BURGESS: SAME OBJECTION. A. I THINK THAT QUESTION IS SO BROAD, IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO ANSWER. Q. WELL, DIVIDED INTO THE TWO, DO YOU THINK THAT PULSED WATER WOULD KILL SAWGRASS OVER A PERIOD OF TIME? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1788 A. NOT ENOUGH THERE. I MEAN, YOU'D HAVE TO TELL ME THE AMOUNT OF WATER AND WHEN IT'S APPLIED AND HOW IT'S DONE. AND THERE'S NOT A GENERALITY YOU CAN MAKE ON THAT. Q. NOW, THE EXHIBIT TWO, WHICH IS THE REPORT, NOTES THAT INCREASED PHOSPHORUS--- A. WHERE ARE YOU, PLEASE? Q. PARAGRAPH ONE, THAT EITHER INCREASING PHOSPHORUS, OR CONSTANT FLOODING HAD NO EFFECT ON THE SAWGRASS. IS THAT CORRECT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO FORM. COUNSEL, IT SAYS RELATIVE GROWTH OF SAWGRASS. THERE'S SEVERAL--- MR. REID: I UNDERSTAND. WITNESS: WHAT'S THE QUESTION AGAIN, PLEASE? Q. (BY MR. REID) IS IT A FACT THAT THIS GREENHOUSE STUDY DETERMINED THAT AFTER SIX MONTHS, THAT INCREASING PHOSPHORUS OR CONSTANT FLOODING HAD NO EFFECT ON THE RELATIVE GROWTH OF THE SAWGRASS? A. UNDER THE CONDITIONS OF THAT SHORT-TERM STUDY, THAT'S -- THAT WAS THE CONCLUSION FROM THAT STUDY. Q. AND DURING THE SAME TIME, THERE WAS MORE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1789 PHOSPHORUS IN THE TISSUES OF THE SAWGRASS PLANTS. IS THAT CORRECT? A. ARE YOU READING NUMBER TWO? Q. NUMBER TWO, YEAH. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND THERE WAS ALSO PHOSPHORUS IN THE SOIL IN THE TEST PLOTS, AS WELL. IS THAT CORRECT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AS WELL AS IN THE EMERGENT VEGETATION, THE PERIPHYTON AND IN THE WATER? A. THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS. Q. NOW, IT MENTIONS IN NUMBER FOUR THAT A FIELD EXPERIMENT TO INVESTIGATE THE EFFECTS OF INCREASED DEPTH, DISTURBANCE AND PHOSPHORUS WAS ESTABLISHED IN MAY OF '92. WAS THAT ESTABLISHED? A. IT WAS ESTABLISHED. Q. AND HAS IT BEEN COMPLETED? A. IT HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED. Q. WHAT -- HOW WOULD I IDENTIFY THAT, OR WHAT'S THAT CALLED? A. THAT'S CALLED THE DISTURBANCE HYDROLOGY STUDY. Q. YOU MENTIONED THAT THE OTHER DAY, RIGHT? A. CORRECT. Q. ALL RIGHT, IS THAT AT A POINT THAT YOU ARE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1790 PREPARED TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS FROM THE DATA? A. YES. Q. AND WHAT CONCLUSIONS HAVE YOU DRAWN FROM IT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM, ASKED AND ANSWERED. A. WE WENT THROUGH THAT, TWO DAYS AGO, IN DETAIL. Q. WELL, JUST TELL ME BRIEFLY, WHAT CONCLUSIONS YOU'RE PREPARED TO DRAW FROM THAT DATA--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. Q. ---THAT YOU WILL BE TESTIFYING TO IN THIS CASE. MR. BURGESS: SAME OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED. A. THAT STUDY WAS ESTABLISHED TO LOOK AT THE EFFECTS OF DISTURBANCE AND I HYPOTHESIZED THAT DISTURBANCE WOULD LEAD TO THE INTRODUCTION OF CATTAIL. THAT WAS THE HYPOTHESIS. AND SO WE SET OUT TO CREATE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DISTURBANCE. WE REPLICATED THIS STUDY. WE HAD A SERIES OF PLOTS, WHICH WE REMOVED ALL THE VEGETATION, AND COVERED THE SAW -- THE FORMER SAWGRASS, SOME SAWGRASS AREA, A VERY HEALTHY STAND OF SAWGRASS, COVERED IT WITH BLACK PLASTIC--- Q. CAN I JUST INTERRUPT. AS YOUR LAWYER SAID, WE DISCUSSED THIS YESTERDAY, AND I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1791 REPEAT THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT, I JUST WANTED TO KNOW WHAT CONCLUSIONS YOU ARE GOING TO BE DRAWING FROM THE DATA THAT YOU COLLECTED AT THE--- MR. BURGESS: THAT'S THE SAME. WE'VE REPEATED THAT. MR. REID: I'M TRYING TO CUT DOWN ON THE REPETITION, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL ME AGAIN ABOUT HOW -- WHAT YOU DID AND HOW YOU DID IT, AND WHAT YOU OBSERVED, JUST GIVE ME--- A. OKAY. THE CONCLUSIONS FROM THAT STUDY--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM, ASKED AND ANSWERED. WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS. IS THIS A MEMORY EXERCISE, BEN? MR. REID: GO AHEAD. A. ---THE CONCLUSIONS FROM THAT STUDY WERE THAT, AT THIS STAGE, WE HAVE THE FIRST YEAR OF DATA, THAT THE DISTURBANCE PLOTS -- ALL THE DISTURBED PLOTS, THE PLOTS THAT HAD THE VEGETATION REMOVED, THE PLOTS WHERE THE SOIL WAS DISTURBED, THE PLOTS WHERE PHOSPHORUS WAS ADDED, THE PLOTS WHERE WE CHANGED THE HYDROLOGY, HAD AN INVASION OF SPECIES, OR A VARIETY OF SPECIES, BUT THEY ALL HAD THE INVASION OF CATTAIL. Q. BY THE WAY, IN YOUR GREENHOUSE EXPERIMENT, YOU DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1792 MENTIONED EMERGENT VEGETATION OF PERIPHYTON. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WHERE DID WHAT COME FROM? Q. THE EMERGENT VEGETATION AND THE PERIPHYTON THAT YOU MENTION IN PARAGRAPH THREE, ON PAGE XXIX? A. I'M NOT SURE I FOLLOW. WHERE DID IT COME FROM? Q. YEAH, WHERE DID IT COME FROM? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. Q. (BY MR. REID) WAS IT THERE ORIGINALLY? DID IT GROW? A. WHERE WAS WHAT? Q. THE EMERGENT VEGETATION AND THE PERIPHYTON THAT YOU NOTE IN PARAGRAPH -- IN BULLET NUMBER THREE, UNDER ROMAN NUMERAL III. MY QUESTION IS, WHERE DID IT COME FROM? HOW DID IT GET THERE? A. WELL, I BELIEVE WE PLANTED THE SAWGRASS--- Q. OKAY. A. ---AND WE HAD SOILS THAT WERE TAKEN FROM THE EVERGLADES, AND I THINK THERE IS A -- OBVIOUSLY, WHEN YOU USE THE SOILS FROM THE EVERGLADES, YOU OBVIOUSLY GET SOME OF THE SPECIES. Q. SO, THE PERIPHYTON CAME FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1793 EVERGLADES. DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ACTUALLY TOOK YOUR SAMPLES FROM? A. I BELIEVE THEY CAME -- I'M DOING THIS FROM MEMORY -- BUT I BELIEVE THEY CAME FROM AN UNDISTURBED AREA. I'M NOT POSITIVE WHERE THEY WERE, BUT THE SOILS -- DR. CRAFT AND I DISCUSSED. AND HE -- I BELIEVE HE COLLECTED THEM IN AN AREA -- I KNOW AN UNDISTURBED AREA, BUT IT MAY HAVE BEEN IN 2B. Q. DID YOU DO ANY ANALYSIS OF THE WATER OR THE SOIL AS FAR AS PHOSPHORUS CONTENT? A. I THINK IF YOU GO TO THE BACK, WE COULD GO THROUGH THE STUDY IN DETAIL. Q. YOU THINK THAT'S IN THERE? A. I'M QUITE SURE IT'S IN THERE. Q. OKAY. LOOK AT PAGE XXX, ROMAN NUMERAL XXX. MR. BURGESS: ALSO NOTE FOR THE RECORD, THAT THE AUTHOR OF THAT STUDY HAS BEEN DEPOSED IN THIS CASE. MR. REID: IS SHE GOING TO TESTIFY AT TRIAL? MR. BURGESS: SHE'S NOT ON OUR WITNESS LIST. MR. REID: OKAY. THEN I THINK I'M PROBABLY ENTITLED TO ASK THIS WITNESS, WHO IS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1794 GOING TO TESTIFY AT TRIAL, NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT SHE MAY HAVE BEEN DEPOSED. MR. BURGESS: I'M ENTITLED TO POINT OUT THAT SHE HAS BEEN DEPOSED. Q. (BY MR. REID) I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT YOUR CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS. WHERE DID YOU COME UP WITH THE 4.2 MILLION ACRE FEET OF WATER TO BE TREATED ANNUALLY? MR. GREEN: WHAT PAGE IS THAT, COUNSEL? MR. REID: XXX. A. I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK TO SEE WHERE THAT CAME FROM, BUT IT PROBABLY CAME FROM SOME DISTRICT NUMBERS AS TO THE VOLUME OF WATER. Q. YOU DON'T RECALL THEM, AS YOU SIT HERE, WHERE THAT NUMBER CAME FROM? A. NO. Q. NOW, YOUR SECOND CONCLUSION IS A COMMENT WITH REGARD TO THE -- SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARD TO THE STORMWATER TREATMENT AREAS. IS THAT CORRECT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. SO, YOU DID IN FACT DRAW A CONCLUSION ABOUT THE SIZING OF THE STORMWATER TREATMENT AREAS? A. I DID. Q. NOW, YOUR THIRD ITEM INDICATES THE AMOUNT OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1795 NUTRIENTS IN RAINFALL. DOES THAT INCLUDE ANYTHING OTHER THAN ACTUAL RAINFALL? A. INCLUDE ANYTHING OTHER THAN NATURAL RAINFALL? Q. DOES IT INCLUDE OTHER BULK DEPOSITION, DRY FALL FOR INSTANCE, THINGS SUCH AS THAT? A. THIS -- YES, I BELIEVE THIS IS THE TOTAL, THIS WOULD BE -- THESE NUMBERS WERE TAKING FROM A SERIES OF USGS AND DISTRICT REPORTS. Q. SO, BY -- IF I READ THAT, OR IF ONE READS THAT, THEY SHOULD NOT ASSUME THAT THE RAINFALL ITSELF CONTAINS THAT LEVEL OF PHOSPHORUS. IS THAT CORRECT? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, IT DEPENDS. I MEAN, YESTERDAY, YOU TOLD ME, DID I INCLUDE RAINFALL AS INCLUDING BULK, AND SO IF WE INCLUDE BULK, IT INCLUDES THAT. Q. I'M ASKING YOU IF THAT NUMBER IS INCLUDED IN THERE? A. THAT'S THE TOTAL AMOUNT, AS I READ THOSE DOCUMENTS AND USE THAT INFORMATION, THAT'S AN ESTIMATE OF THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS THAT IS LOADED TO THOSE SYSTEMS, FROM THE SKY, WHICH PEOPLE GENERALLY REFER TO AS RAINFALL. Q. BUT IT ALSO INCLUDES THINGS THAT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED RAINFALL -- IS THAT CORRECT -- THAT IS, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1796 PHOSPHORUS IN THE RAINWATER? A. IF YOU'RE ASKING IF IT'S ALL IN THE DISSOLVED FORM IN THE WATER, THE ANSWER IS NO. Q. IN WOULD INCLUDE DRY FALL, FOR INSTANCE? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. IT WOULD INCLUDE DISSOLVED AND PARTICULATE AND MATERIALS. IT WOULD INCLUDE EVERYTHING IN THAT--- Q. WOULD IT INCLUDE--- A. ---IT WOULD INCLUDE -- PEOPLE WOULD REFER TO THAT AS TOTAL BULK RAINFALL. Q. OR TOTAL BULK DEPOSITION? A. TOTAL BULK DEPOSITION. Q. WOULD IT INCLUDE BUGS, FOR INSTANCE, THAT HAD PHOSPHORUS, THAT FELL OUT OF THE SKY? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, IF THE DISTRICT INCLUDED BUGS, THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM. I'M NOT--- Q. I'M NOT ASKING WHAT THE DISTRICT INCLUDED. I'M ASKING ABOUT YOUR STATEMENT HERE THAT THIRTY TO FORTY PERCENT OF THE NUTRIENTS LOADED INTO THE WCA'S OF THE ENP IS FROM RAINFALL. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, AND I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU INCLUDED WHEN YOU MADE THAT STATEMENT. A. I TOOK THIS INFORMATION, I BELIEVE I TOLD YOU, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1797 FROM A NUMBER OF DISTRICT REPORTS AND DOCUMENTS. I HAVE BEEN AT A NUMBER OF MEETINGS WITH THE DISTRICT STAFF THEMSELVES AND OTHER INDIVIDUALS. I HAVE READ USGS REPORTS, AND THOSE NUMBERS CAME FROM A COMPILATION OF THAT INFORMATION. I BELIEVE SIMILAR NUMBERS EXIST IN A NUMBER OF DISTRICT DOCUMENTS, AND SO I TOOK THAT TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE BULK DRY DEPOSITION, WET DEPOSITION COMBINATION, TOTAL DEPOSITION. THAT'S WHAT -- LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY, IT'S WHAT THE DISTRICT AND THE USGS APPARENTLY HAVE ESTIMATED TO BE WHAT IS BEING DEPOSITED ON THOSE LANDSCAPES. Q. NOW, YOU'VE GONE FURTHER, THOUGH, AND CONCLUDED THAT THAT PHOSPHORUS IS NOT CONTROLLABLE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? A. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO, ON LARGE LANDSCAPES, YET, CONTROL RAIN. Q. CAN ANY PORTION OF THE BULK DEPOSITION THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED HERE BE CONTROLLED, IN YOUR OPINION? A. THE COMPONENT THAT WOULD BE -- SOME FRACTION OF THE COMPONENT THAT WOULD BE IN THE DRY DEPOSITION CAN BE INCREASED BY ANTHROPOGENIC ASPECTS. AND SO, THEREFORE, IT'S POSSIBLE TO SOME DEGREE TO CONTROL THAT. IT COMES FROM ALL SORTS OF HUMAN ACTIVITIES. Q. SUCH AS FARMING? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1798 A. AMONG OTHERS. Q. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE THIRTY TO FORTY PERCENT WOULD BE CONTROLLABLE, THEN? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I HAVEN'T REALLY LOOKED AT THAT. I COULDN'T SAY. Q. LOOK AT THE NEXT BULLET. IS IT SIGNIFICANT TO YOU THAT THE PERMANENT STORAGE IS CONTROLLED BY PEAT ACCRETION RATES AND SOIL ADSORPTION BY CALCIUM, AS OPPOSED TO PLANT UPTAKE? A. IS IT -- I'M SORRY? Q. WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT STATEMENT? A. THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT STATEMENT IS THAT IF ONE IS TO RELY ON THE PLANTS DIRECTLY TO STORE THE PHOSPHORUS, THAT, IN FACT, IS NOT THE MAIN MECHANISM FOR -- ESPECIALLY FOR THESE SYSTEMS, BY WHICH PHOSPHORUS IS STORED. I THINK WE'VE COME UP WITH A -- WITH OUR ANALYSES, A VERY CAREFUL TECHNIQUE, THAT BASICALLY GIVES YOU SOME ESTIMATE OF THE LONG-TERM PHOSPHORUS STORAGE CAPACITY, AND THAT COMPARTMENT IS THE PEAT ACCRETION RATE, WHICH IS QUITE SLOW, VIS-A-VIS, THAT'S WHY THE ACREAGE HAS TO BE SO LARGE. Q. NOW, IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH, YOU SAY THAT STORAGE IN THE MIXED CATTAIL AREA IS HIGHER THAN IN THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1799 SAWGRASS AREA. IS THAT CORRECT? A. THE -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PHOSPHORUS STORAGE? Q. RIGHT. A. RIGHT, THE MAXIMUM VALUES WE EVER HAD FOUND WERE IN THAT PARTICULAR ZONE. Q. THAT TELLS ME THAT THE CATTAIL IS MORE EFFICIENT, OR MORE EFFECTIVE AT REMOVING PHOSPHORUS THAN THE SAWGRASS. IS THAT CORRECT? A. NO, THAT'S INCORRECT. Q. OKAY. WHY IS THAT? TELL ME WHY THAT'S INCORRECT. A. BECAUSE THE CATTAIL ZONE AND -- FIRST OF ALL, CATTAIL AS A SPECIES, IS ABLE TO REMOVE FROM THE SOIL PORE WATER, PHOSPHORUS. HOWEVER, IT IS NOT ABLE TO REMOVE PHOSPHORUS AT VERY LOW LEVELS. AND SO AS THE LEVELS AND CONCENTRATION OF PHOSPHORUS IN THE WATER DECREASE, CATTAIL LOSES WHAT EFFICIENCY IT HAS IN TERMS OF THAT. NOW, IT HAS A HIGHER -- HAS A HIGHER PRODUCTIVITY RATE, WHICH WOULD LEAD TO, IN THIS CASE, AS IT SHOWS, A HIGHER PHOSPHORUS STORAGE IN THAT PARTICULAR COMPONENT. MR. REID: LET ME HAVE THAT LAST SENTENCE AGAIN, PLEASE? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1800 (THEREUPON, THE PORTION OF THE ANSWER APPEARING ON PAGE 1816, LINES 8-14, WAS REPEATED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) MR. REID: OKAY, THANK YOU. Q. (BY MR. REID) ARE THERE ANY PLANTS THAT ARE ABLE TO REMOVE PHOSPHORUS WHICH IS AT VERY LOW LEVELS, IN YOUR VIEW? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. YES, I -- LET ME GO BACK AND POINT OUT WHAT I HAD PREVIOUSLY SAID. THE HIGHER RATE THERE, I THINK MAYBE THE CONFUSION IS THAT THAT CATTAIL ZONE IS NOT SIMPLY THE RESULT OF JUST PLANT ACTIVITY. IT IS ALSO THE RESULT OF BIOLOGICAL, CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL PROCESSES, SO THE ZONE -- TO INFER IN THAT PARTICULAR ZONE THAT, IN FACT, THAT RATE IS DUE PRIMARILY -- I PUT TOGETHER A MODEL ON WHAT PEAT ACCRETION INCORPORATES, AND IT'S FAR MORE THAN JUST THE CATTAIL ZONE, IN TERMS OF THE CATTAIL. SO, YOU WOULD HAVE TO ESSENTIALLY LOOK AT THE COMPARTMENTS THAT MAKE UP THAT. AND SO THE EASIEST FORMS -- SINCE THAT ZONE EXISTS SOUTH OF THE HILLSBORO STRUCTURES, WHERE THIS WAS DONE, WOULD BE DEPOSITED IN THAT REGION. NOW, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, DO I KNOW OF PLANTS THAT ARE MORE -- THAT ARE EFFICIENT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1801 Q. NO, I SAID DO YOU KNOW OF PLANTS WHICH ARE ABLE TO REMOVE PHOSPHORUS WHICH IS AT VERY LOW LEVELS? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, SOME ALGAE, FOR EXAMPLE, CAN DO THIS. Q. ANYTHING ELSE? A. THERE'S SOME EVIDENCE THAT SAWGRASS IS -- I'VE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS WITH DR. REDDY ON THIS MATTER, AND THERE ARE SOME STUDIES BY PRATT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA THAT SHOW -- AND ALSO THE DATA VERY CLEARLY ON THIS GRADIENT LINE SHOWS THAT THE PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS IN THE WATER COLUMN REACH THEIR LOWEST LEVELS WHEN THEY ENTER THE SAWGRASS ZONE. Q. SAY THAT AGAIN. A. THE PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS IN THE WATER COLUMN, SOUTH OF THE HILLSBORO STRUCTURES, DRAMATICALLY DROP ONCE THEY LEAVE THE CATTAIL ZONE, AND REACH THEIR LOWEST LEVELS ONCE THEY GET INTO THE MIXED, AND ESPECIALLY THE SAWGRASS ZONE. SO, THAT -- ALL THIS EVIDENCE INDICATES TO ME THAT THE SAWGRASS PLANTS ARE ABLE TO REMOVE PHOSPHORUS AT A MUCH LOWER LEVEL -- TO A MUCH LOWER LEVEL, WHICH MAKES SENSE PHYSIOLOGICALLY. Q. WELL, WHAT -- THE PHENOMENON THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED, WOULDN'T THAT SUGGEST THAT ALL THE PHOSPHORUS HAS ALREADY BEEN TAKEN UP BY THE CATTAILS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1802 BEFORE IT GOT TO THE SAWGRASS AREAS? A. NO. THE CURVES--- MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. ---IF YOU LOOK AT THE CURVES FROM THE DISTRICT'S DATA, AND OUR DATA AND SO FORTH, THE WATER COLUMN PHOSPHORUS STAYS QUITE HIGH. IT COMES IN -- I'LL GIVE YOU SOME RELATIVE NUMBER. IT COMES IN AT APPROXIMATELY, WELL, LET'S SAY, 150 PARTS PER BILLION, AND BY THE TIME IT LEAVES THE CATTAIL ZONE, IT IS STILL IN THE 60, 70, OR 80 PARTS PER BILLION RANGE, AND ONLY DROPS BELOW 50 WHEN YOU'RE WELL IN THE SAWGRASS ZONE, AND ONLY GETS TO BACKGROUND WHEN YOU PASS THROUGH SAWGRASS, SO -- AND THAT IS VERY TYPICAL OF WHAT I SAID YESTERDAY AND THE DAY BEFORE, IS THAT MOST CATTAIL SYSTEMS THAT I HAVE SEEN AND ANALYZED THROUGH THE YEARS, THERE ARE VERY, VERY FEW OF THESE SYSTEMS THAT I HAVE SEEN, WHERE IN LARGE, THAT CATTAIL SYSTEMS CAN HARDLY EVER REMOVE PHOSPHORUS BELOW 50. DR. KADLEC IN HIS DEPOSITION SAID HE HAD GREAT CONCERNS THAT CATTAIL WOULD REACH MUCH BELOW 50, AND HE WASN'T SURE WHAT CONCENTRATION THEY WOULD GET TO. HE HAD NO CONFIDENCE BELOW 50. Q. YOU MEAN 50 PARTS PER BILLION? A. 50 PARTS PER BILLION. AND THE EVIDENCE IN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1803 WCA-2A SHOWS THAT'S THE CASE. Q. GOING BACK TO YOUR -- THE BULLET, THE FIFTH BULLET. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. THIS DOES SAY THAT THE STORAGE WAS GREATER IN THE MIXED CATTAIL PHOSPHORUS -- I'M SORRY -- CATTAIL SAWGRASS AREA, THAN IT WAS IN THE SAWGRASS AREA, DOESN'T IT? A. THAT IS BECAU -- YES--- Q. OKAY. A. ---THAT'S BECAUSE THAT AREA RECEIVED MORE MATERIALS. THERE'S--- MR. GREEN: I NEED TO OBJECT OR MAKE A CLARIFICATION AFTER YOU'VE FINISHED. EXCUSE ME. WITNESS: WELL, REPEAT THE QUESTION, TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. MR. REID: YOU'VE ANSWERED THE QUESTION. WITNESS: WELL, REPEAT IT. MR. GREEN: HERE, JUST SO WE DON'T CONFUSE THE RECORD, THIS SAYS PEAT STORED IN FERTILIZED WCA WETLANDS. IT ISN'T CLEAR TO ME, AND I'M NOT SURE IT'S CLEAR TO THIS DISCUSSION, WHETHER THIS IS TALKING ABOUT THE FERTILIZER EXPERIMENT, OR THIS IS TALKING ABOUT THE WCA-2A TRANSECT. SO, FOR THIS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1804 DISCUSSION TO BE HELPFUL TO ANYBODY, I THINK WE OUGHT TO CLARIFY THAT. MR. REID: WELL, I ASSUMED HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE TRANSECT BECAUSE OF THE SETTLING -- BECAUSE OF THE STORAGE RATE THAT'S HERE THAT WAS FROM THE GRADIENT STUDY, BUT--- Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY, DOES THIS PARAGRAPH WE'RE DISCUSSING, THE FIFTH BULLET ON PAGE ROMAN NUMERAL XXX, THAT MAKES REFERENCE TO THE STORAGE OBSERVATIONS IN YOUR GRADIENT STUDY. IS THAT CORRECT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. MR. GREEN: THANK YOU. Q. (BY MR. REID) NOW, SINCE THIS SAYS THE MIXED CATTAIL SAWGRASS AREA STORED AT A GREATER RATE THAN IN THE SAWGRASS AREA, I WANT YOU TO TELL ME WHY THAT HAPPENED. A. WHY WHAT HAPPENED? Q. WHY THERE WAS INCREASED STORAGE IN THE MIXED AREA, VERSUS THE SAWGRASS AREA. MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, AS I SAID, THE STORAGE IN ALL OF THESE ZONES IS PROPORTIONAL TO THE LOAD TO THOSE ZONES, AND I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT MOST OF THE DATA FROM MOST SITES, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1805 IF YOU LOAD MORE PHOSPHORUS, FOR EXAMPLE, OR MORE NUTRIENTS INTO A PARTICULAR ZONE, YOU WILL GET PROPORTIONATELY MORE STORAGE THERE. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE EFFICIENCY IS ANY BETTER. IN FACT, THE EFFICIENCY COULD BE GOING THE OTHER WAY. Q. WELL, AREN'T WE TALKING HERE ABOUT STORAGE CAPACITY, GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR? A. CORRECT. Q. AND SO YOU LOOKED AT THE STORAGE CAPACITY IN THE MIXED AREA, AND THEN YOU LOOKED AT IT IN THE SAWGRASS AREA, AND YOU CAME UP WITH THIS RATE OF STORAGE. IS THAT CORRECT? A. WE LOOKED AT IT -- WE LOOKED AT IT ALL THE WAY DOWN THE TRANSECT. Q. SURE. BUT THE TWO THINGS YOU'RE COMMENTING ON HERE ARE IN THESE TWO AREAS, AND IN EACH AREA, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RATE OF STORAGE IN EACH AREA. IS THAT CORRECT? A. WELL, THIS ACTUAL BULLET RIGHT HERE, ACTUALLY, I WANT TO BREAK IT DOWN INTO PIECES, SAYS, WE HAD A MAXIMUM VALUE OF .78 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED, BUT WE AVERAGED .44 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED--- Q. I UNDERSTAND. A. ---SO, WE HAD ONE -- WE HAD -- THAT WAS OUR DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1806 MAXIMUM VALUE, BUT HERE IS OUR WEIGHTED AVERAGE. Q. SURE, FOR THE WHOLE GRADIENT. A. FOR THE GRADIENT. WHICH--- Q. WELL, MY -- MY QUESTION IS, WEREN'T YOU COMPARING THE STORAGE RATE IN THE MIXED AREA WITH THE STORAGE RATE IN THE PURE SAWGRASS AREA, IN THIS BULLET? A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AND SEE WHERE THAT NUMBER CAME. I THINK THE ACTUAL MAXIMUM VALUE WAS IN THE CATTAIL MONOCULTURE. I'M NOT SURE, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE CASE. Q. SO, YOU THINK IT WAS GREATEST IN THE CATTAIL MONOCULTURE? A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE DATA. WE CAN GO BACK. I--- Q. IT WAS SECOND IN THE SAWGRASS, AND IT WAS THIRD IN THE MIXED AREA? MR. BURGESS: OBJECTION TO FORM. A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AND SEE WHERE THAT DATA POINT WAS. IT SAYS HERE -- IT SAYS MIXED CATTAIL--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---AND I'D HAVE TO GO BACK. BUT THAT WAS A -- THAT BULLET SIMPLY SAYS WE FOUND A -- ON THE GRADIENT, WE FOUND A MAXIMUM VALUE WHICH IS I THINK, ONE VALUE, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1807 BUT I PUT -- TO FIND A MAXIMUM VALUE, I THINK IS VERY SIMPLISTIC. TO FIND ONE VALUE -- I THINK WE'VE HAD SOME PROBLEMS OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS WITH ONE VALUE. WHAT -- ANYONE WHO WOULD -- WHO WOULD PUT DESIGN CRITERIA ON ONE VALUE AT ONE LOCATION, I THINK WOULD BE SADLY MISTAKEN. YOU NEED TO COME UP WITH A WEIGHTED AVERAGE--- Q. OKAY. A. ---FOR THE SYSTEM. Q. WHY DID YOU HAVE THE GREATEST STORAGE AREA IN THE MONOCULTURE CATTAIL AREA? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, LET'S GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE DATA. MR. BURGESS: THAT'S MISCHARACTERIZING THE BULLET. Q. (BY MR. REID) WELL, YOU JUST TOLD ME -- I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DATA. I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST TESTIFIED TO. A. I SAID, WELL -- NO, I SAID I'D WANT TO GO BACK AND FIND OUT WHAT THE DATA SHOWED. MR. REID: IS IT TEN O'CLOCK? MR. BURGESS: A QUARTER 'TIL. MR. REID: WHY DON'T WE PUT THAT ASIDE, AND YOU CAN LOOK THAT UP WHEN WE TAKE OUR DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1808 BREAK, AND I'LL GO ON TO SOMETHING ELSE, BECAUSE THAT WAS THE LAST POINT I HAD ON THIS. MR. BURGESS: HE WANTS TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. MR. REID: WELL, MY QUESTION WAS -- OKAY, FINE. A. THE HIGHEST RATE WAS REPORTED FOR 10C-1, WHICH WOULD BE, FROM MY RECOLLECTION, MOSTLY A CATTAIL ZONE. Q. SO, WHY IS THAT THE CASE? A. WHY IS WHAT THE CASE? Q. WHY WOULD THE HIGHEST RATE OF STORAGE BE IN THE CATTAIL ZONE? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. AS I TOLD YOU, THE WAY IN WHICH THESE WETLAND SYSTEMS WORK, IS BIOLOGICAL, CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL IN THE ZONES CLOSEST TO THE SYSTEM. IF YOU HAD -- IF YOU HAD SAWGRASS THERE, IF YOU HAD NO VEGETATION THERE, IF YOU JUST HAD NOTHING, YOU WOULD GET -- SUPPOSE YOU HAD A SYSTEM WHERE YOU HAVE NO VEGETATION, AND YOU PLACED THIS MATERIAL -- IT HAS NO MACROPHYTES, WHATSOEVER -- AND YOU PLACED THIS MATERIAL IN AT THE GATES, YOU WOULD HAVE MOST OF THE PHOSPHORUS, A HIGHER PERCENTAGE STORED CLOSEST TO THE SYSTEM, FOR CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1809 REASONS, AND YOU WOULD HAVE LESS AND LESS AS YOU MOVED DOWN THE SYSTEM. THAT'S THE BASIC LAWS OF CHEMISTRY AND PHYSICS THAT WOULD OPERATE. Q. ARE CATTAILS MORE EFFICIENT AT REMOVING PHOSPHORUS THAT SAWGRASS? A. NOT AT LOWER -- THEY TAKE UP MORE PHOSPHORUS. THEY ARE NOT MORE EFFICIENT IN TERMS OF THEIR REMOVAL EFFICIENCY IN THE WATER--- Q. OKAY. A. ---I THINK THERE'S VERY GOOD EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT -- LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY, IF WE DID A COMPETITION EXPERIMENT, AND WE PUT CATTAILS AND SAWGRASS TOGETHER, IN HYDROPONICS, SAWGRASS WOULD SURVIVE PROBABLY DOWN TO 10 PARTS PER BILLION OR LESS, AND CATTAILS WOULD NOT. MUCH BELOW 50 OR 60 PARTS PER BILLION, CATTAILS WOULD BE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE, IN TERMS OF THEIR PHOSPHORUS BUDGET. Q. HAVE YOU READ THE SWIM PLAN? A. A LONG TIME AGO. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS IN THIS CASE, WITH REGARD TO THE SWIM PLAN? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM, OVER BROAD. A. ANY OPINIONS? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1810 Q. YEAH. A. I HAVE SOME OPINIONS. Q. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE SWIM PLAN THAT YOU -- STRIKE THAT. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE -- A GROUP OF PEOPLE, A GROUP OF COMPANIES AND SO FORTH HAVE CHALLENGED THE SWIM PLAN IN THIS PROCEEDING? A. I UNDERSTAND THAT. Q. AND YOU'VE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS AN EXPERT WHO WILL TESTIFY IN SUPPORT OF THEIR CHALLENGE TO THE SWIM PLAN? A. I UNDERSTAND THAT. Q. NOW, WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT IS, WHAT OPINIONS DO YOU HAVE THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY RATED -- RELATED TO IDENTIFIABLE PORTIONS OF THE SWIM PLAN--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. Q. ---IF ANY? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM, OVER BROAD. A. WELL, DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE SWIM PLAN? WE COULD GO THROUGH IT. Q. NO, I DON'T HAVE A COPY WITH ME. DO YOU HAVE ANY -- AS YOU SIT HERE, DO YOU KNOW OF ANY OPINIONS THAT YOU HAVE REGARDING ANY SPECIFIC PARTS OF THE SWIM PLAN? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1811 MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, I THINK WE'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH, FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS, RELATED TO THE STA'S. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS REGARDING THE SWIM PLAN ACTIVITIES IN THE AREA OF HYDROLOGY OR HYDROPERIOD? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. DO I HAVE OPINIONS? Q. OPINIONS ABOUT WHAT THE SWIM PLAN IS DOING WITH REGARD TO HYDROPERIOD OR HYDROLOGY? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, AS I SAID, I HAVEN'T READ IT IN QUITE A WHILE, BUT MY FIRST ASSESSMENT OF THE SWIM PLAN, RELATED TO HYDROLOGY, HYDROPERIOD IS DOING NOTHING TO THAT--- Q. YOU BELIEVE--- A. ---OTHER THAN GIVING IT LIP SERVICE. Q. YOU BELIEVE THE SWIM PLAN TAKES NO ACTIONS WITH REGARD TO HYDROLOGY OR HYDROPERIOD? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. NO ACTIONS? Q. YEAH. A. I CAN'T SAY NO ACTIONS. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1812 Q. WELL, WHAT ACTIONS DOES IT TAKE WITH REGARD TO HYDROPERIOD? A. I DON'T REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY, EXCEPT WHEN I REMEMBER THAT HYDROPERIOD WAS MENTIONED IN THERE, BUT IT IS NOT SPECIFICALLY COVERED, IN TERMS OF WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER ADEQUATE TO EVEN COME CLOSE TO ADDRESSING HYDROLOGY OR HYDROPERIOD PROBLEMS. Q. WELL, IF YOU HAVE MADE A JUDGMENT THAT THE WAY IT COVERS HYDROLOGY IS NOT, IN YOUR OPINION, CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE WAY YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IT IS DOING? A. NOTHING. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. Q. (BY MR. REID) WITH REGARD TO HYDROPERIOD? A. VERY LITTLE, THAT WOULD HAVE AN ECOLOGICAL SIGNIFICANCE TO THE EVERGLADES. Q. WOULD THE INTRODUCTION OF SHEET FLOW BE SOMETHING RELATING TO HYDROPERIOD THAT WOULD HAVE ECOLOGICAL SIGNIFICANCE TO THE EVERGLADES? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WOULD THE INTRODUCTION OF SHEET FLOW? Q. AS OPPOSED TO POINT SOURCE DELIVERY. A. IT DEPENDS ON WHERE IT WAS, HOW IT WAS DONE, WHETHER THE WATER WAS PULSED, WHAT WAS IN THE WATER, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1813 ETCETERA, ETCETERA. Q. IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE WATER IS -- IF THE WATER HAS EXCESSIVE LEVELS OF PHOSPHORUS, WHETHER IT'S SHEET FLOW OR NOT, IS NOT REALLY SIGNIFICANT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID THAT. Q. SO, AS A GENERAL MATTER, YOU CANNOT TESTIFY WITH REGARD TO WHETHER SHEET FLOW IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE AN ECOLOGICAL BENEFIT TO THE EVERGLADES? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I DON'T BELIEVE I SAID THAT, EITHER. I BELIEVE I SAID -- OVER THE LAST TWO OR THREE DAYS -- THAT THE DELIVERY MODE FOR THE EVERGLADES IS CRITICAL, BOTH THE TIMING, THE FORM, HOW IT'S DONE WOULD BE IMPORTANT. Q. AS -- AT PRESENT, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS, IN FACT, SHEET FLOW IN EACH OF THE WCA'S? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, AS YOU'RE USING SHEET FLOW -- IF I CAN USE IT THIS WAY, IN A VERY BROAD CONTEXT -- MY OBSERVATIONS ARE THAT MOST OF THE WCA'S ARE RECEIVING FUNNELED WATER FROM POINTS OR SOURCES. THERE ARE THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1814 SPREADER SYSTEMS THAT ARE BEING UTILIZED. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE IS ONE PARTIALLY WORKING SPREADER SYSTEM IN WCA-2A. IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE WERE -- HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT SITE. MOST OF THE OTHER SITES, INCLUDING THE PARK, AND PORTIONS OF 3, ARE SIMPLY A SERIES OF GATES THAT OPEN, RELEASE WATER THROUGH CONFINED SPACE, THE WATER THEN MOVES OUT FROM SOMEWHAT OF A CONFINED AREA, AND THEN EVENTUALLY MOVES ACROSS IN SOME TYPE OF SHEET FLOW, YOU COULD DESCRIBE IT, BUT IS ENTERED AS MORE OF A FUNNELED? Q. ARE -- DO YOU KNOW WHERE ALL OF THE -- YOU KNOW THE TWELVE STRUCTURES? A. CORRECT. Q. ARE THOSE ALL -- DO ALL OF THOSE DELIVER WATER IN THE SAME MANNER, THE FUNNELED EFFECT, AS YOU SAY, TO THE PARK? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERY FORM -- FOR EVERY SYSTEM. AS YOU KNOW, I WAS NOT ALLOWED IN THERE. Q. I'M -- WELL, I -- BUT ALL YOU'VE GOT TO DO IS DRIVE DOWN TAMIAMI TO SEE THE TWELVE STRUCTURES, RIGHT? A. I LOOKED AT THEM, YES, BUT I HAVE NOT SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THEM--- Q. WELL, I'M TRYING--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1815 A. ---THE TWELVE STRUCTURES. Q. WELL, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT ALL OF THE TWELVE STRUCTURES DISTRIBUTE WATER IN THE SAME MANNER? A. I CAN'T SAY FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE, NO. BUT THE FEW THAT I'VE LOOKED AT, THAT SEEMED TO BE THROUGH GATES. Q. AND DID YOU FIND CATTAILS AT EACH OF THE TWELVE STRUCTURES? A. I WAS NOT ALL -- I DON'T THINK WE WERE -- WE DID NOT LOOK AT EVERY STRUCTURE, AS MY RECOLLECTION WAS. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF MORE WATER ENTERS THE WCA'S THROUGH RAINFALL OR THROUGH STRUCTURES? A. I THINK IT'S A BALANCE, OR CLOSE TO IT. IT DEPENDS ON THE YEAR. IT VARIES FROM YEAR TO YEAR. Q. ON AVERAGE THOUGH, YOU THINK IT'S ABOUT EQUAL? A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE NUMBERS. I JUST DON'T REMEMBER OFFHAND. Q. WOULD IT BE SIGNIFICANT TO YOU, TO KNOW THAT? A. TO KNOW WHETHER IT CAME THROUGH? Q. YEAH, RAINFALL OR THROUGH STRUCTURES. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IN DETERMINING SOME DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1816 OF THE BUDGETS AND, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE A USEFUL PIECE OF INFORMATION. Q. WELL, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS PULSED WATER IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS, WOULDN'T THAT RELATE TO THAT ISSUE? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. IF I BELIEVE THIS PULSED WATER IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS, WOULDN'T--- Q. WOULDN'T IT BE SIGNIFICANT TO YOU, FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU FOUND OUT THAT A MUCH HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF WATER ENTERING WCA'S WAS RAINFALL AS OPPOSED TO THROUGH THE STRUCTURES? IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'D WANT TO KNOW? A. I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL INFORMATION. BUT THE SIMPLE FACT OF PULSING WATER IN ADDITION TO THIS IS SORT OF LIKE -- WELL, THE PULSED WATER ITSELF IS A DISTURBANCE BEYOND THE NORMAL RAINFALL, AND SO I PUT THAT IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT CATEGORY. THE DELIVERY SYSTEM IS TOTALLY ARTIFICIAL COMPARED TO RAINFALL. I THINK RAINFALL TODAY IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS IT'S BEEN FOR TIME IMMEMORIAL, IN TERMS OF THE VOLUMES OF WATER, EXCEPT FOR DROUGHT PERIODS AND SO FORTH, WHERE AS THIS PULSED, HYDROLOGIC WATER FLOW IS A MANMADE INVENTION. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1817 MR. GREEN: EXCUSE ME, CURT, IF YOU HAVE TO CALL THE HOSPITAL AT THIS TIME? MR. REID: IS IT TEN? OKAY, TAKE A BREAK. (THEREUPON, A BREAK WAS TAKEN FROM 9:54 A.M. TO 10:22 A.M.) (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO BELOW WERE MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBITS 8-23 - CURTIS J. RICHARDSON DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) MR. REID: I'M GOING TO LET HIM ASK THE QUESTIONS NOW. I MAY HAVE SOME MORE TOMORROW. EXAMINATION BY MR. REED: Q. WE'RE GOING TO TURN NOW TO DOCUMENTS THAT YOU PRODUCED, DR. RICHARDSON, AND ASK YOU TO LOOK AT A NUMBER OF THEM, AND EXPLAIN TO ME, GENERALLY WHAT THEY ARE, WHAT THEY SHOW, AND WHAT OPINIONS YOU CAN REACH FROM THEM. THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH FROM THE FIRST BOX WE GOT FROM YOU, THE COURT REPORTER HAS THE ORIGINAL SET. THE ATTORNEYS HAVE A SET BETWEEN THEM HERE. THE ATTORNEY'S SET IS NOT PRE-MARKED, BUT THEY START WITH NUMBER EIGHT. A. NUMBER EIGHT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1818 Q. YEP. A. YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU WHAT IT IS? Q. YEAH, I'LL ASK YOU--- A. OKAY. Q. ---INDIVIDUAL QUESTIONS ABOUT EACH ONE. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE DOCUMENT MARKED AS EXHIBIT EIGHT IS? A. JUST GIVE ME A MOMENT TO LOOK AT IT. Q. CERTAINLY. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THIS APPEARS TO BE A COMBINATION OF FIELD DATA, FIELD SHEETS, AND SOME PLOTS FROM THE DISTURBANCE HYDROLOGY STUDY. Q. ALL RIGHT. AND WOULD YOU TURN TO THE PAGE WITH THE BATES NUMBER DCR 0032952, PLEASE? A. I'M SORRY. COULD YOU REPEAT THAT NUMBER? Q. CERTAINLY, 32952, AND IT APPEARS TO BE A GRAPH. A. THIS IS A SEED BANK STUDY, WHICH IS A PART OF THE STUDY, WHEN IT WAS ESTABLISHED, TO DETERMINE WHAT THE SEED BANK VIABILITY WAS FROM THE SOILS, ONCE THEY WERE COVERED. OUR PURPOSE OF COVERING THEM WAS TO REMOVE THE VIABLE SEEDS IN THIS, AND THEN ONCE THIS IS DONE, TO TRY TO LOOK AT THE REGENERATION POTENTIAL FROM DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1819 THAT SOIL. WE ESSENTIALLY THEN TOOK THESE TO THE GREENHOUSE, AND IT'S A TYPICAL PART OF A RECOLONIZATION EXPERIMENT TO DETERMINE WHAT SPECIES WOULD COME BACK. Q. OKAY. IS THIS PART OF ONE OF THE STUDIES THAT YOU'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED WITH MR. REID? A. YES, THIS IS THE DISTURBANCE, OR -- THE STUDY -- THE HYDROLOGY DISTURBANCE STUDY WE TALKED ABOUT. Q. AND CAN YOU TELL ME JUST ONCE AGAIN EXACTLY HOW YOU CONDUCTED THAT PART OF THE STUDY, THE SEED BANK PART? YOU WENT IN AND--- A. WE REMOVED -- FROM EACH OF THE TREATMENTS, WE REMOVED REPRESENTATIVE SOIL, A PORTION OF THE SOIL AFTER THE TREATMENT FOR A CONTROL, FOR PHOSPHORUS, FOR DISTURBED -- FOR WATER, AND THEN THESE WERE PLACED IN THE GREENHOUSE, AND WATERED, ESSENTIALLY. AND THE WATER EXPERIMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, WAS KEPT AT THE SAME DEPTH AS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE FIELD. AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT -- THE PHOSPHORUS TREATMENT HAD BEEN THE SAME IN THE CONTROL AND SO FORTH, TO SEE WHAT SPECIES WE WOULD -- WHAT WOULD GERMINATE FROM THE SOIL WITHOUT BEING IN THE FIELD SO THAT THERE WASN'T AN INTRODUCTION, OR POTENTIAL FOR INTRODUCTION OF OUTSIDE SEED SOURCES IN THE GLADES. Q. AND WHAT DID YOU LEARN? WHAT DOES THIS GRAPH DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1820 SHOW US? A. THIS GRAPH SHOWS US THAT WHEN YOU TAKE THOSE SOILS AND REMOVE THEM FROM THE OUTSIDE SEED SOURCE, THAT WE HAD A FEW SPECIES THAT REGENERATED FROM THAT SOIL. WE HAD A CYPERUS SPECIES, A GRASS, CALADIUM, AND CHARA, AND A FERN, BASICALLY IN VARIOUS PLOTS -- WE CAN GO THROUGH EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY, IF YOU WISH -- BASICALLY THAT GERMINATED AND GREW FROM THAT, IN THE SEED -- FROM SEED. AND, SO, THAT GIVES US SOME IDEA -- WE THEN HAVE SORT OF A REFERENCE BASE REMOVED -- IN OTHER WORDS, TO GIVE US -- THIS GIVES US SOME TYPE OF HANDLE ON WHAT WAS INHERENTLY IN THE SOIL, REMOVED FROM THE SEED SOURCE IN THE EVERGLADES. WHEREAS, IF YOU LEFT -- IF YOU SIMPLY JUST LOOKED AT WHAT CAME BACK, THE QUESTION WOULD BE, YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO DISCERN WHETHER OR NOT, IN FACT, SOME OF THEM, IF THEY DID GERMINATE, DID THE SEEDS BLOW IN, OR WERE THE SEEDS STILL THERE AND STILL VIABLE. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS. Q. OKAY. SO, THIS IS A TYPE OF CONTROL TO THAT ORIGINAL PROGRAM? A. IT GIVES YOU A REFERENCE BASE TO GIVE YOU SOME HANDLE ON WHAT COULD STILL BE VIABLE IN THE SOIL. Q. AM I CORRECT IN UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S NO TYPHA SPECIES REPRESENTED ON THIS? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1821 A. THAT'S CORRECT. WE FOUND NO TYPHA GERMINATING FROM THE SOIL. Q. DO YOU ATTRIBUTE ANY SIGNIFICANCE TO THAT? A. NO. WE HAD NO A PRIORI IDEA WHAT WOULD BE LEFT AS VIABLE SEEDS IN THERE. WE WERE HOPING, OF COURSE, TO, WITHOUT CHEMICALLY TREATING IT, WHICH WE DIDN'T DO, WAS BASICALLY ALLOW AN OPEN NICHE, AND ALLOW AS MANY SPECIES AS POSSIBLE TO COME INTO THOSE SITES, AND THIS IS SORT OF A CHECK TO SEE WHAT POTENTIALLY COULD HAVE BEEN LEFT AS VIABLE SEEDS, AFTER EIGHTEEN MONTHS OF BEING COVERED IN THE SOIL. Q. WILL THIS STUDY FORM THE BASIS OF ANY OF YOUR TESTIMONY? A. YES, IT WILL. Q. WHAT, SPECIFICALLY, MIGHT -- WILL YOU TESTIFY ABOUT THAT IS DERIVED FROM THIS GRAPH, OR REFLECTED ON THE GRAPH? A. WELL, THIS GRAPH SPECIFICALLY WILL SIMPLY TELL ME THAT THERE WERE SOME SPECIES THAT WERE STILL VIABLE, WHICH ARE TYPICAL EVERGLADES SPECIES. AND IT GIVES ME A REFERENCE BASE. THIS GRAPH BY ITSELF IS ONLY USED, AS I SAID BEFORE, AS A CHECK. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A--- Q. CAN WE CONCLUDE FROM THIS GRAPH IN ORDER FOR DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1822 TYPHA TO INVADE THESE SITES, THE SEEDS WOULD FIRST HAVE TO ARRIVE IN SOME WAY FROM OUTSIDE THE SITE? A. FROM THIS? THIS GRAPH -- ALL THIS GRAPH TELLS YOU AS IT RELATES TO TYPHA IS, THAT THERE WAS NO SEED SOURCE, EITHER VIABLE IN THE SOIL; OR WHERE WE HAD THEM SEQUESTERED, THERE WAS NO SEED SOURCE FOR CATTAILS, SO THIS IS REALLY A CHECK TO SEE -- AS I SAID, A PRIORI, WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT WOULD GERMINATE. Q. IF YOU THEN WENT BACK AND FOUND -- FOUND TYPHA IN THE EXPERIMENTAL AREA SOMETIME LATER, CAN WE ASSUME THAT THE SEED FOR THAT TYPHA HAS BEEN INTRODUCED FROM OUTSIDE THE EXPERIMENTAL AREA? A. FROM THIS IT WOULD INDICATE THAT THERE WERE NO -- NO VIABLE SEEDS IN THE SOILS. THAT'S WHAT THIS INDICATES. Q. OKAY. A. IT DOESN'T PRECLUDE THE FACT THAT THERE MAY BE ALSO A SECOND MECHANISM. CATTAILS ALSO CAN INVADE AREAS BY RHIZOMES. Q. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME A LITTLE? I'M JUST NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM, EVEN. A. WELL, IT'S -- THEY CAN PUT OUT RUNNERS--- Q. OH, OKAY. A. ---IF THEY'RE PHYSICALLY IN THE AREA -- AND, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1823 YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT MILES, IT'S YARDS OR METERS -- BUT, I MEAN, IF THEY'RE THERE, THEY CAN PUT A RHIZOME OUT UNDERGROUND. Q. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND, THANKS. CAN WE TURN TO EXHIBIT NUMBER NINE, PLEASE? A. CAN I PUT THIS ONE ASIDE NOW? Q. YES. CAN YOU IDENTIFY THAT DOCUMENT, DOCTOR? A. JUST GIVE ME A MOMENT HERE? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THIS WAS AN APRIL 15TH LETTER TO MR. SCHOECH, DESCRIBING -- I BELIEVE THEY ASKED FOR ME TO GIVE THEM AN UPDATE OF OUR GENERAL RESEARCH PLAN FOR THE FUTURE, AND A BUDGET, AND I THINK THEY ALSO WANTED A TIME LINE AND SOME ROUGH ALLOCATION OF WHERE OUR EFFORTS ARE BEING PLACED. THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT TO GIVE THEM -- EPD HAS, SINCE THEY'VE HIRED A MANAGER AND A SCIENTIFIC ADVISOR, HAVE BEEN WANTING TO KEEP MORE INFORMED ON SPECIFIC AREAS OF ACTIVITIES. AND THIS WAS LIKE WHAT -- THIS WAS WHAT I WAS ATTEMPTING TO DO WITH THIS. Q. COULD YOU TURN TO PAGE TWO OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE ATTACHMENT TO THAT DOCUMENT, A JUSTIFICATION, AND IN PARAGRAPH THREE--- A. IS THAT UNDER A NUMBER? Q. YES, IT IS. IT'S NUMBERED THREE. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1824 A. NUMBER THREE? Q. PARAGRAPH THREE, YES. DO YOU FIND THAT? A. IT SAYS, "CHANGES IN MACROPHYTES..." Q. YES. A. OKAY. Q. THAT IS CORRECT. COULD YOU READ THAT PARAGRAPH TO YOURSELF, PLEASE, AND I WOULD LIKE TO THEN ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT IT? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I'VE READ IT. Q. OKAY. YOU SAY THERE THAT THIS INFORMATION THAT YOU'VE PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED, "IS CRITICAL IN DETERMINING WHETHER THE SIZE OF THE CATTAIL IMPACTED AREA HAS STABILIZED OR WHETHER THE AREA CONTINUES TO EXPAND." HAS THAT DETERMINATION BEEN MADE YET, DOCTOR? A. WE HAVE -- THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT QUESTION, AND WE HAVE MADE SOME ATTEMPTS TO DO SO. WE HAVE -- THAT'S WHY WE ARE LOOKING AT THE -- YOU SEE FURTHER ON, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RESAMPLING THE VEGETATION--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---WHICH WILL BE DONE THIS SPRING. TO DATE, IN TERMS OF THIS INFORMATION, WE FEEL SINCE THE INPUTS TO THAT ZONE HAVE REACHED SOME TYPE OF RELATIVE EQUILIBRIUM, THAT THE AREA ITSELF IS SOMEWHAT STABLE, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1825 HAS REACHED SORT OF A -- SORT OF A QUASI STEADY STATE, IN A SENSE, WHAT I WOULD MAKE ANALOGOUS TO A -- SORT OF A PENDULUM ON A GRANDFATHER CLOCK. THERE IS A ZONE THAT -- IT'S NOT A DIRECT LINE. IT MOVES -- IT MAY MOVE BACK AND FORTH UNDER THE CONDITIONS. Q. THE LAST SENTENCE IN THAT PARAGRAPH SAYS, "LIKE THE FERTILIZER STUDY, IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO CONTINUE THIS STUDY BEYOND 1994 IN ORDER TO ADEQUATELY ASSESS THE LONG-TERM CHANGES IN COMMUNITY COMPOSITION IN AREAS OF WCA 2A THAT ARE EXPOSED TO NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT AND HYDROPERIOD ALTERATION." IS THAT STILL YOUR POSITION? A. YES, I THINK WE -- WE NEED, AT LEAST WE DO -- I HAVEN'T SEEN THE DATA. WE WOULD NEED MORE DATA TO ESTABLISH, IF THERE ARE GOING TO BE CHANGES IN COMMUNITY COMPOSITION. AS I SAID, ALBEIT, WITH -- WHAT -- THE INFORMATION WE HAVE GIVES ME THIS ZONE. Q. ON THE TOP OF PAGE THREE, THE FOLLOWING PAGE, PARAGRAPH SIX, IT SAYS THE "DATA ANALYSIS WILL BE COMPLETED DURING 1993 AND A FINAL REPORT WILL BE MADE IN THE NEXT ANNUAL REPORT." HAS THAT DATA ANALYSIS BEEN COMPLETED? A. FOR THE PHOS -- FOR THE P AND N MINERALIZATIONS? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1826 Q. YES. YES, SIR. A. THAT'S DR. QUALLS' SECTION. I BELIEVE HE IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON THAT, RIGHT NOW. I -- I'M NOT SURE IT'S ALL BE COMPLETED. I KNOW HE HAS -- WE HAVE PRODUCED THAT INFORMATION, THE FILES FOR THAT. I'M NOT SURE IT'S ALL COMPLETED YET. I KNOW HE'S WORKING FEVERISHLY TO TRY TO GET THIS IN THE NEXT REPORT. I HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANYTHING FROM HIM IN TERMS OF A WRITTEN DOCUMENT. MR. BURGESS: CURT, WHEN YOU SAY YOU FURNISHED IT, DO YOU MEAN IN CONJUNCTION WITH DOCUMENTS FURNISHED FOR THIS DEPOSITION? IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN? WITNESS: I THINK SO. THE LABORATORY DATA, THE DATA THAT WOULD -- I ASKED OUR LAB PEOPLE TO PROVIDE THE FILES. Q. (BY MR. REED) AND YOU ANTICIPATE THAT THIS WILL BE PART OF THE REPORT THAT YOU DISCUSSED AT LENGTH, THE UPCOMING REPORT? A. YES. NOW, SOME OF THIS DATA WOULD HAVE BEEN, I BELIEVE -- WE WOULD GO BACK AND LOOK. BUT SOME OF THIS DATA, A GOOD PORTION OF THIS, WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE PREVIOUS REPORT. Q. COULD YOU TURN TO PAGE FOUR OF THAT DOCUMENT, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1827 PLEASE, AND LOOKING AT ROMAN IV, PARAGRAPH ROMAN IV, THERE IS A SENTENCE WHICH READS, "IT IS HYPOTHESIZED THAT INCREASED WATER DEPTH AND SOIL DISTURBANCE WILL RESULT IN THE INVASION OF CATTAIL AND OTHER SPECIES AND THAT INCREASED PHOSPHORUS LOADINGS WILL RESULT IN HIGHER PLANT PRODUCTIVITY." HAS THAT HYPOTHESIS NOW BEEN TESTED AND DO YOU HAVE ANY ULTIMATE CONCLUSIONS? A. THAT'S REALLY A SORT OF A TWO-PART HYPOTHESIS. THE FIRST PART BEING, WOULD THESE DISTURBANCES -- WATER DEPTH, SOIL DISTURBANCE, ALL THESE DISTURBANCES RESULT IN THE INVASION OF CATTAIL. THAT PART HAS BEEN, AT LEAST FOR THE FIRST YEAR OF DATA THAT WE HAVE, THAT PART -- THAT HYPOTHESIS HAS BEEN SUPPORTED, IN THE SENSE THAT WE HAVE CATTAIL INVASIONS IN ALL OF THOSE DISTURBANCES. IN TERMS OF HIGHER PLANT PRODUCTIVITY, WE HAVE NOT -- THAT WILL BE DONE AT A LATER TIME, SINCE IF WE WENT IN AND TRIED TO HARVEST THE PLANTS TO LOOK AT PRODUCTIVITY, WE WOULD NO LONGER HAVE THE EXPERIMENT. Q. WILL THAT BE DONE BEFORE THE HEARING IN THIS CASE? A. I DOUBT IT. THIS IS A LONGER TERM STUDY. WE PLANNED REALLY TO DO THAT. WE MAY DO SOME INDIRECT ESTIMATES. YOU CAN DO HEIGHT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1828 I DOUBT IF THAT WILL EVEN BE DONE BEFORE. Q. HAVE ANY OF YOUR OTHER STUDIES INDICATED THAT PHOSPHORUS ADDITIONS RESULT IN HIGHER PRODUCTIVITY? A. THE -- I THINK WE COVERED EARLIER, TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY, I THINK -- REFRESH MINE, TOO, MAYBE -- THE FERTILIZER STUDY HAS SHOWN INCREASES IN BIOMASS, I BELIEVE ABOVE- AND BELOWGROUND, IN SAWGRASS, CATTAIL, AND SOME OF THE OTHER SPECIES THAT I BELIEVE WE'VE -- SOME OF THAT IS IN THE LAST ANNUAL REPORT, AND SOME OF THAT'S MENTIONED IN THE QUARTERLY REPORTS AND SO ON. Q. OKAY. LET'S TURN TO NUMBER TEN. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I BELIEVE -- YEAH. THIS IS NOT MY DOCUMENT. THIS WAS SENT TO ME. Q. YES. A. THAT WAS A DOCUMENT THAT WAS SENT TO ME, ASKING ME, WOULD I, YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, I GET SENT BOXES OF THESE THINGS. IT WAS APPARENTLY A SUMMARY FROM, I WAS TOLD, BOB KADLEC ON "NON-NUTRIENT CHEMICAL REDUCTIONS IN WETLAND STORMWATER TREATMENT AREAS." THE ONLY EVIDENCE I HAVE OF THAT IS WHAT -- THAT IT WAS BOB KADLEC'S, IS THE FRONT COVER, AND THEN IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1829 IT SAYS "BOB K." SO, I MEAN, ASSUMING THAT'S THE CASE, THAT'S -- I DON'T KNOW. Q. WHOEVER ORIGINATED IT, COULD YOU LOOK AT THE -- READ THE PARAGRAPH TO YOURSELF ON "SUSPENDED SOLIDS," THE SECOND PARAGRAPH OF THE DOCUMENT, AND TELL ME WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THE AUTHOR'S STATEMENT THERE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THE SUSPENDED SOLIDS STATEMENT WOULD HOLD, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE IN THAT HAVE MINERAL COMPONENTS. I'M NOT SURE -- THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT WETLANDS ARE QUITE GOOD AT REMOVING, ESPECIALLY LARGER SUSPENDED SOLIDS. THEY DO A BIT BETTER WITH SOME OF THE HEAVIER COMPONENTS THAN THEY DO WITH SOME OF THE LIGHTER ORGANIC COMPONENTS, BUT THAT IS ONE OF THE ASPECTS THEY DO A REASONABLY GOOD JOB ON. I THINK THE KEY OPERATIVE TERMS THERE ARE ADEQUATE TIME FOR SETTLING, COMBINED WITH NOT -- NOT OBTAINING CHANNELIZATION, AND IT HAS TO DO WITH FLOW RATE AND SO FORTH. Q. DO YOU AGREE THAT THE EFFICIENCY OF THE OPERATION CAN BE AFFECTED BY CHANNELIZATION WITHIN THE WETLAND? A. OH, YES, I THINK EFFICIENCY COULD BE AFFECTED BY CHANNELIZATION. IT COULD GO DOWN IF YOU -- QUITE OFTEN IN THESE WETLAND SYSTEMS, IF YOU -- PEOPLE TRY TO DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1830 USE WETLANDS, BUT CHANNELIZE THE WATER DOWN A SMALL PATH, AND THE AFFECTED AREA IS MUCH LESS. Q. OKAY. AND THAT WOULD A WAY OF MAKING IT LESS EFFICIENT THROUGH CHANNELIZATION, I TAKE IT -- IS THAT CORRECT -- WHAT YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED? A. IF YOU -- IF YOU HAD ONLY -- IF YOU ONLY PLACED THE WATER IN JUST CHANNELS, THEN YOU WOULD NOT -- YOU WOULD NOT BE UTILIZING THE ENTIRE WETLAND SURFACE. THE PROBLEM IS WITH MOST WETLANDS THAT YOU BUILD, IS THAT YOU END UP WITH CHANNELS. AS HARD AS YOU TRY, IT'S A VERY INEXACT SCIENCE, AND SO ALMOST EVERY WETLANDS I'VE SEEN ENDS UP WITH CHANNELS. IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO HAVE CHANNELS. Q. CAN YOU ENVISION A WETLAND WITH CHANNELS, SAY, IN THE FORM OF A MAZE, WHICH ACTUALLY MADE THE WETLAND MORE EFFICIENT, BECAUSE IT EXTENDED THE TIME PERIOD IT TOOK THE WATER TO GO THROUGH THE WETLAND, AND SLOW DOWN THE FLOW RATE, PRESUMABLY? A. WELL, THAT'S WHAT THE ORIGINALLY KISSIMMEE DID, PRIOR TO THE PLACEMENT OF STRUCTURES AND DIKES. IT BASICALLY ALLOWED THE OVERFLOW OF THAT SYSTEM, AND FOR THE WATER TO SIT IN THE WETLANDS FOR CONSIDERABLE PERIODS OF TIME AND ALLOW IT TO FILTER OUT THAT MATERIAL. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1831 Q. SO, IF CHANNELIZATION WERE INTENTIONALLY CREATED IN THAT FORM, IT MIGHT MAKE THE WETLAND A MORE EFFICIENT FILTERER? A. WELL, FOR THIS ONE COMPONENT, IF YOU CAN SLOW THE WATER DOWN, AND YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TYPES OF SUSPENDED SOLIDS AND MATERIALS COMING INTO IT THAT ARE -- THAT WILL ALLOW PHYSICAL SETTLING, THEN YOU COULD INCREASE THE EFFICIENCY. Q. I'M NOT ATTEMPTING TO DISAGREE, BUT WHEN I READ CHANNELING, I PICTURED THIS MAZE. WHEN YOU ANSWERED CHANNELING, YOU WERE DESCRIBING SOMETHING THAT WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE IT LESS EFFICIENT, AND, UNEXPECTEDLY, WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING, I THINK IS ALL. BUT I CAN SEE EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN. A. YEAH, IT'S JUST A FACT IN MOST WETLANDS WHEN YOU ADD WATER, WATER ALWAYS TAKES THE LEAST LINE OF RESISTANCE, AND IT CREATES CHANNELS, AND BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE CONCRETE, YOU HAVE SOIL THAT WASHES AWAY AND DIFFERENT TOPOGRAPHY, YOU END UP -- I HAVE YET TO SEE A -- I HAVE YET TO SEE A WETLAND SYSTEM WITH -- NATURAL OR CREATED -- WHERE YOU DON'T GET SOME CHANNELS WHERE THE WATER TAKES THE LEAST LINE OF RESISTANCE. IT ALWAYS WORKS THAT WAY. IT'S THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. Q. COULD YOU LOOK AT THE NEXT TO LAST CATEGORY DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1832 THAT'S--- A. HEADED? Q. ---ON THE LAST PAGE, HEADED "METALS." A. COMMON METALS AND IONS? Q. NO, THE LAST PAGE. A. OH, ON THE LAST PAGE? Q. YEAH, THE LAST PAGE, THAT'S CORRECT, AND READ THAT ONE PLEASE, TO YOURSELF. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. OKAY, I'VE READ IT. Q. DO YOU AGREE WITH THE CONCLUSION THAT STORMWATER TREATMENT AREAS WOULD BE EXPECTED TO TRAP METALS? A. WELL, WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT -- IT WOULD TRAP, AS A CATION, IT WOULD TRAP A NUMBER OF THOSE METALS. A CATION EXCHANGE CAPACITY FOR ORGANIC SOILS CAN BE QUITE HIGH. IT WOULD DEPEND ON SOME OF THE METALS. FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE CERTAIN METALS LIKE SODIUM, WHICH ARE SINGLE IONS, WHICH ARE NOT AS EASILY RETAINED. THERE ARE SOME METALS THAT IT'S SORT OF A TWO-WAY PROCESS. IT WOULD TAKE THEM UP, BUT ALSO RELEASE THEM, DEPENDING UPON THE CONCENTRATION. YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE NET. BUT, BY AND LARGE, WETLANDS ARE REASONABLY GOOD FOR MANY OF THE CATIONS. BUT, AGAIN, I DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1833 WOULDN'T WANT TO MAKE A BLANKET STATEMENT. I WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT EACH -- I WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT EACH METAL AND SEE WHAT WE WERE REFERRING TO. Q. IS MERCURY, FOR EXAMPLE, A METAL? A. IT'S A CATION. Q. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT CATION IS? THAT'S ANOTHER ONE I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH. A. A POSITIVELY CHARGED ION, BUT IT ALSO CAN BE AN INNER -- IT CAN BE Ho. THERE ARE MANY FORMS OF THESE. WHAT HE'S REFERRING TO HERE, WHEN SAYS "CATIONIC" VERSUS ANIONIC, IT MEANS A POSITIVE CHARGE, LIKE SODIUM WOULD BE AN A+, AND CALCIUM WOULD BE CA+2, VERSUS AN ANION, WHICH WOULD BE LIKE PHOSPHATE, WHICH WOULD BE PO4, TRIPLE MINUS. Q. OKAY. I'M GOING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS LITTLE LESSON IN CHEMISTRY; BUT YOU TOLD ME THAT -- IS MERCURY IN THAT CATEGORY OR NOT, I FORGOT WHAT YOU SAID. A. IT DEPENDS ON THE FORM OF MERCURY. Q. I SEE. I SEE. WOULD YOU EXPECT THESE STA'S TO BE TRAPS FOR MERCURY, IF THERE WERE MERCURY COMING INTO THEM? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT THE STA'S, ALL OF THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1834 EVERGLADES SOILS NOW HAVE MERCURY IN THEM. I HAVE DONE SOME ANALYSIS. THEY HAVE BEEN ABSORBING MERCURY AND OTHER TRACE METALS FOR FIVE THOUSAND YEARS, SO THEY WOULD HAVE METALS IN THEM, AND WHAT DATA I HAVE SEEN WOULD SUGGEST THAT THERE IS MERCURY THROUGHOUT ALL OF THOSE SOILS. SO, WHETHER THEY WOULD TRAP MERCURY, IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE FORM OF THE MERCURY. IT MAY TRAP AND RETAIN, FOR EXAMPLE, ELEMENTAL MERCURY, BUT THERE MAY BE OTHER FORMS OF MERCURY. BUT THE PROBLEM WITH MERCURY IS, IS THAT IT BECOMES METHYLATED, AND ELEMENTAL MERCURY BY ITSELF IS NOT A PROBLEM. METHYLMERCURY IN ULTRA TRACE AMOUNTS IS QUITE TOXIC TO ORGANISMS. Q. NOW, WOULD METHYLMERCURY BE TRAPPED BY AN STA? A. THERE COULD BE PERIODS OF TIME WHEN METHYLMERCURY COULD BE RELEASED FROM SOME OF THOSE SYSTEMS. IT COULD BE -- LET'S SEE, METHYLMERCURY COULD BE GENERATED IN THOSE SYSTEMS, AND IT COULD BE ALSO RELEASED FROM THOSE SYSTEMS, AND IT COULD BE ALSO DE-METHYLATED IN THOSE SYSTEMS, SO THERE WOULD BE A DYNAMIC PROCESS GOING ON. MR. REID: EXCUSE ME, WHAT WAS THE METAL? YOU SAID IT COULD BE RELEASED, IT COULD BE DE-METHYLATED, AND IT COULD BE WHAT? MR. BURGESS: GENERATED. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1835 WITNESS: GENERATED. Q. (BY MR. REED) WHAT FORM WOULD IT BE ENTERING THE STA IN? A. WELL, THERE WOULD BE SEVERAL SOURCES. IT COULD BE RAIN COMING OUT OF THE SKY. Q. OH, I'M SORRY, I PROBABLY ASKED THE QUESTION WRONG, BUT YOU'VE MENTIONED AT LEAST TWO TYPES, ELEMENTAL MERCURY AND METHYLMERCURY. WOULD IT BE ENTERING THE STA IN BOTH OF THOSE FORMS? A. WELL, IT COULD, AS I SAID, DEPENDING UPON THE SOURCE OF WHERE IT'S COMING FROM. AS A GENERAL RULE, MERCURY DOESN'T MOVE UNLESS THERE IS SOME -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. Q. WITH THE PROCESS THAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING FOR ME IN THE STA'S, WOULD IT BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S GOING ON IN WCA-2A, PRESENTLY? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. THE PROCESSES? Q. YES. WHAT MAY HAPPEN TO MERCURY IN STA, WHATEVER, STA 1, WOULD YOU EXPECT THAT TO BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S PRESENTLY HAPPENING TO MERCURY IN WCA-2A? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. I THINK THE SAME -- THE SAME PROCESSES WOULD DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1836 BE GOING ON, WHETHER THE RATES WOULD BE DIFFERENT, DUE TO DIFFERENT WATER DEPTHS OR THE AMOUNTS GOING IN, I COULDN'T SAY, BUT THE PROCESSES WOULD BE GOING ON. Q. OKAY. IT COULD BE A DIFFERENT RATE BECAUSE OF DIFFERENT DEPTHS OF WATER? A. WELL, IT COULD BE -- THERE MAY BE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE STA'S IS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE OPERATED LIKE WCA-2A. THERE ARE NOT GOING TO BE, FOR EXAMPLE, DRYING OUT PERIODS, AND THERE ARE GOING TO BE -- RETENTION TIMES MAY BE DIFFERENT. AND PRIOR SOILS ARE A BIT DIFFERENT, SO IT'S HARD TO SAY. BUT THE RATE -- THOSE RATES, I MEAN, THE PROCESSES WOULD BE THERE. I WOULD BE QUITE SURPRISED IF THEY WEREN'T -- I MEAN, I CAN'T IMAGINE THEY WOULDN'T BE THERE. Q. ALL RIGHT. I MISSED ONE ANSWER AND IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN RELEVANT TO ANYTHING; I MEAN, THE QUESTION MAY NOT HAVE BEEN MEANINGFUL, BUT I ASKED WHETHER MERCURY WERE A METAL, AND YOU TOLD ME SOMETHING, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ANSWERED THAT. A. IT'S A METAL. Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU DONE ANALYSIS ON MERCURY FOR PURPOSES OF THIS CONTROVERSY? A. I HAVE NOT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1837 Q. DO YOU EXPECT TO BE TESTIFYING ON MERCURY AT ALL? A. I DO NOT. Q. I THINK YOU SAID IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU DID SOME ANALYSIS OF MERCURY IN THE EVERGLADES. A. I REVIEWED DATA. AND I'VE LOOKED AT DATA THAT THAT'S THE TYPE OF ANALYSIS I -- IF YOU ARE ASKING ME, HAVE I SPECIFICALLY CHEMICALLY MEASURED MERCURY IN MY LABORATORY IN THE EVERGLADES, THE ANSWER IS NO. Q. WHOSE DATA DID YOU LOOK AT, DOCTOR? A. I THINK I SAW FROM RON JONES' DEPOSITION SOME DATA, WHICH WAS -- YOU'LL HAVE TO BEAR WITH ME HERE -- I BELIEVE SOME OF IT WAS EPA DATA. I BELIEVE SOME OF DR. BLOOM'S DATA WAS IN THAT. I'M DOING THIS AGAIN FROM MEMORY. I THINK HE DID SOME OF THE ANALYSIS. I THINK IT WAS ANOTHER LAB WHO DID SOME OF THAT ANALYSIS. I HAVE THE REPORT WHICH I HAVE REVIEWED FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA. THEIR RESEARCH GROUP PRODUCED A VERY EXTENSIVE MERCURY DOCUMENT. I HAVE SEEN SOME MERCURY DATA -- AND LET'S SEE WHERE -- I THINK IT'S A COMPANY. I'VE ONLY JUST PASSINGLY SEEN IT IN THE LAST FEW DAYS, FROM, I THINK IT'S A COMPANY, PTI. I THINK I'VE SEEN A FEW NUMBERS FROM RON JONES. HISTORICAL DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1838 INFORMATION FROM THE '70'S, I REVIEWED. I WROTE A PROPOSAL YEARS AGO TO LOOK AT MERCURY AT PEATLANDS IN NORTH CAROLINA, AND SO I LOOKED AT SOME DATA AT THAT TIME FROM THE EVERGLADES, BECAUSE THERE WERE SOME EARLIER STUDIES ON THAT, AND I'VE SEEN SOME DATA FROM TAMAR BARKAY. Q. HAVE YOU REACHED ANY CONCLUSIONS FROM THE DATA THAT YOU'VE REVIEWED? A. OH, EXCUSE ME. ONE MORE, I HAVE SEEN SOME DATA FROM DR. PATRICK. WELL, SOME GENERAL CONCLUSIONS THAT, ONE, MERCURY IS UBIQUITOUS IN THE EVERGLADES. TWO, THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE AN ANTHROPOGENIC SOURCE OF MERCURY IN MORE RECENT TIMES. THREE, SOME OF THE DATA THAT I LOOKED AT FROM EPA AND OTHER PLACES INDICATES THAT METHYLMERCURY CONCENTRATIONS IN FISH AND ORGANISMS SEEMS TO BE HIGHER IN OLIGOTROPHIC OR NUTRIENT POOR SYSTEMS, THAN NUTRIENT ENRICHED SYSTEMS. Q. OKAY. BUT YOU DON'T EXPECT TO TESTIFY ON ANY OF THAT? A. I HAVE NOT BEEN ASKED TO DO SO. Q. OKAY, COULD WE TURN TO EXHIBIT NUMBER ELEVEN, PLEASE? CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THAT IS, AND IS IT A COVER SHEET FOR EXHIBIT NUMBER 12? YOU PROBABLY NEED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1839 BOTH OF THOSE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) A. LET ME LOOK AT THIS AND MAKE SURE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) Q. (BY MR. REED) YOU MAY SEE FROM THE BATES NUMBERING, THAT THEY APPEAR TO -- ONE FOLLOW THE OTHER IN--- A. LIKE ONE -- THE WAY THEY WERE STACKED ONE BEHIND THE OTHER? Q. YES, YES. A. I'M -- I'LL BE WITH YOU IN A SECOND HERE, I THINK. YEAH, I THINK THEY'RE -- I THINK THEY ARE THE -- THAT'S THE SUMMARY. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT. I JUST DON'T REMEMBER. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THIS IN QUITE A WHILE. THIS IS ABOUT A YEAR -- IN FACT, IT'S ALMOST EXACTLY A YEAR AGO. Q. CAN YOU TELL US, LOOKING AT TABLE ONE ON THE FIRST PAGE OF EXHIBIT ELEVEN, WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT TABLE TO BE TELLING US, AND IF IT HELPS TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT TWELVE OR ONE OF THE MAPS, PLEASE DO THAT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1840 A. JUST GIVE ME A MOMENT TO LOOK AT IT. Q. SURE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT, AND I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY WHO DID THIS. I CAN'T REMEMBER. THAT WAS -- THAT'S WHY MY HESITATION. THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT TO -- TO TAKE DR. REDDY'S DATA FROM -- IT APPEARS, FROM 2A, AND TRY TO ESTIMATE ACREAGE AND USING VARIOUS KRIGING TECHNIQUES. AND I'M NOT A KRIGING EXPERT, SO I DON'T -- I'VE LISTENED TO A NUMBER OF THESE INDIVIDUALS TALK ABOUT ISOTROPIC AND ANISOTROPIC KRIGING, AND THAT'S NOT MY FORTE, SO I -- I WILL NOT BE GIVING YOU AN OPINION AS TO WHAT THAT IS. BUT THIS IS INFORMATION THAT WAS PROVIDED FOR ME, WAS TO TRY TO ANALYZE THE, BY COMPUTER, VARIOUS SIZE AREAS AND PRODUCE STANDARD DEVIATIONS, AND SO FORTH, FOR THE CONTOURS OF DATA FROM DR. REDDY. Q. AND DR. REDDY'S DATA WAS WHAT? A. DR. REDDY'S DATA WAS -- HE HAD DONE THE MOST EXTENSIVE SOILS ANALYSIS IN 2A, IN TERMS OF SPATIAL COVERAGE, ALBEIT IT WAS A -- NOT AS DETAILED IN EACH PROFILE, BUT IT WAS -- FOR EXAMPLE, HE LUMPED 0-10 CENTIMETERS, 10-20 CENTIMETERS -- BUT HE WAS TRYING TO COME UP WITH A SPATIAL DISTRIBUTION OF PHOSPHORUS IN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1841 WCA-2A, FOR THE DISTRICT, AS I UNDERSTAND IT. Q. DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW WHETHER ANYTHING SIMILAR WAS DONE WITH YOUR DATA? WERE CONTOUR MAPS DRAWN, OR AREAS CALCULATED? A. I DID THAT, MYSELF, TO DETERMINE FROM OUR DATABASE, JUST BY HAND, IN OTHER WORDS, AND WE HAVEN'T GONE TO THE SUPER KRIGING. AND OTHER INDIVIDUALS HAVE TAKEN MY DATA, AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT MY DATA HAS BEEN ENTERED INTO SEVERAL DATA BANKS WITH THAT MEANT TO BE DONE. AND I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS DOING THAT. Q. OKAY. DOES IT APPEAR TO YOU THAT THE MAPS IN EXHIBIT TWELVE ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE FIRST COLUMN, ENTITLED "FILE," IN EXHIBIT ELEVEN? A. YOU MEAN DO THEY FOLLOW IN ORDER? Q. WELL, NOT NECESSARILY IN ORDER, BUT AM I READING THIS PROPERLY THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FIRST PAGE OF EXHIBIT TWELVE APPEARS TO DESCRIBE AN AREA OF 24,761 ACRES. THAT SEEMS TO BE THE SAME NUMBER OF ACRES IN THE BOTTOM ENTRY ON TABLE ONE? A. CORRECT, CORRECT. Q. SO, IS THIS MAP REFLECTING--- A. THAT'S WHAT I ASSUME IT TO REFLECT, YES. Q. ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT IS IT -- WHAT IS THAT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1842 24,762 ACRE, WHAT DOES IT REPRESENT? MR. BURGESS: I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU KNOW. I THINK DR. RICHARDSON TESTIFIED HE DIDN'T PREPARE EITHER OF THESE EXHIBITS. MR. REED: YES. AND, SO, IF YOU DON'T KNOW, FEEL FREE TO SAY SO. A. WELL, IT REPRESENTS THE CONCENTRATION AREA AS SO DRAWN BY DR. REDDY'S ISOPLETHS. IT GIVES THE ISOPLETHS FOR VARIOUS -- I CAN'T -- I FORGET WHAT THE LINES ARE. I THINK THERE WERE ABOUT TWO HUNDRED. IT GIVES YOU THE ISOPLETHS. THAT ACREAGE APPEARS TO BE THIS DIMPLED AREA INSIDE. Q. SO, IT IS THE ENTIRE AREA WHICH SAMPLING INDICATES HAS MORE THAN -- AND CAN YOU FILL IN THAT BLANK FOR ME? I--- A. WELL, ACCORDING TO DR. REDDY'S DATA, IN TERMS OF THIS PARTICULAR AREA, MORE THAN 600 MICROGRAMS PER GRAM, I BELIEVE IS -- MILLIGRAMS PER KILOGRAM IS THE SAME DIFFERENCE, IN THIS PARTICULAR ZONE, FOR WHAT DATA HE HAS. HE HAS THE DATA OVER THE SUM -- OVER THE SPATIAL DISTRIBUTION, HE HAS HIGHER DENSITIES IN SOME AREAS THAN OTHERS, BUT THIS IS WHAT THE KRIGING WOULD HAVE SHOWN. Q. DO YOU -- DO YOU KNOW WHY THE 600 WAS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1843 SELECTED? A. I ASKED THAT THE 600 BE SELECTED. Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHY YOU CHOSE THAT NUMBER? A. WELL, IT WAS MY EXPERIENCE, AND DOCTOR -- MY STAFF, DR. CRAFT AND I, AND FROM LOOKING AT THE DATA, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WOULD BE REPRESENTATIVE OF AN AFFECTED AREA, I THINK WE DESCRIBED FIVE HUNDRED AS SORT OF THE -- CONSIDERED FIVE HUNDRED MAYBE PLUS OR MINUS A HUNDRED AS SORT OF BEING FOR THIS REGION THE BACKGROUND, AND SO WE WANTED TO BE CONSERVATIVE. WE PICKED THE SIX HUNDRED LINE AS THE AREA THAT HAD SHOWN SOME ENRICHMENT, AND I WANTED AN ESTIMATE, ESPECIALLY FOR THE WESTERN PORTION OF THIS, SINCE I HAD LITTLE DATA. AND SINCE MY CORES WERE ONLY IN THE D, C, AND A RANGE TO THE EAST, I WANTED TO GET SOME ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE AREA WOULD BE FOR ESPECIALLY THE WESTERN SECTION, FROM DR. REDDY. I MEAN, WE HAD PLENTY OF DATA ON THE EASTERN PORTION THAT WE COULD USE, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING ON THE WESTERN PORTION. Q. AND THIS ALLOWED YOU TO COMPARE YOUR RESULTS WITH REDDY'S? A. THIS ALLOWED ME TO COMPARE MY RESULTS WITH REDDY'S, AND TO FILL IN SOME GAPS WHERE WE HAD, AND TO SEE WHETHER HIS -- WHETHER THIS INFORMATION SUPPORTED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1844 WHAT WE HAD, WHERE WE OVERLAPPED IN SOME PLACES, AND IT DID. Q. IT DID, THE TWO WERE CONSISTENT? A. YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY SPEAKING THEY WERE, YES. BUT, AS I SAID, YOU DO HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT HIS IS AT A 0-10 CENTIMETERS. IT'S MORE OF A GROSS AVERAGE. Q. HIS -- I'M SORRY -- HIS SAMPLES WERE 0-10 CENTIMETERS? A. HE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, HE BASICALLY TOOK THE FIRST TEN CENTIMETERS AND MIXED THEM. Q. OKAY. AND YOU DID WHAT? A. CENTIMETER BY CENTIMETER. SO, OURS -- WHERE WE TOOK THE SAMPLES, OUR SITE SAMPLES ARE MORE DETAILED. HE HAS MORE SPATIAL SAMPLES. WE DON'T HAVE MORE SPATIAL SAMPLES. Q. IF YOU WERE TO DRAW A MAP LIKE THIS FROM YOUR DATA, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW ONE DOES IT. IF HE'S -- WELL, LET'S GO BACK A STEP. YOU TOOK TEN CENTIMETERS, BUT MEASURED CENTIMETER BY CENTIMETER, SO YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD TEN DIFFERENT READINGS FOR EACH? A. WE DID. Q. HOW WOULD YOU DRAW A SIMILAR CHART WITH THAT KIND OF INFORMATION? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1845 A. FOR CONCENTRATION, YOU COULD THEN AVERAGE OVER THE DEPTH, AND TRY TO COME UP WITH THE NUMBER. Q. OKAY. BUT YOU ALSO KNEW THEN WHAT THE CONCENTRATION WAS AT TEN AND WHAT IT WAS AT THE TOP, WHERE HE DIDN'T -- HE DIDN'T BOTHER WITH IT? A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. IT'S INTRIGUING TO ME THAT THE AREAS REFLECTED ON TABLE ONE VARY SO MUCH. IS THAT -- IS THAT A COMMON RESULT OF KRIGING, DO YOU KNOW? A. WELL, I THINK WHAT'S CONFUSING THERE IS WHY THEY VARY SO MUCH IS BECAUSE -- THIS IS WHERE WE GET INTO THE ART OF KRIGING. SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS ARE NOT ACTUAL ACREAGES IN A SENSE. I THINK THEY PUT IT IN THAT TABLE THERE, THERE ARE STANDARD DEVIATIONS. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE TRYING TO TELL YOU WHAT THE VARIATION IS. AND, THEN OTHER -- THE TECHNIQUES -- AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK DR. LETTENMAIER, WHO'S AN EXPERT IN THIS AREA -- ALLOW YOU TO WEIGHT. SEE, WITH KRIGING TECHNIQUES, WHAT LITTLE THAT I KNOW ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF THIS, YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DATA. WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS INTERPOLATING BETWEEN POINTS, AND SO YOU HAVE VARIOUS STATISTICAL WAYS OF WEIGHTING THAT. AND, SO, DR. LETTENMAIER, WHO'S THE EXPERT IN THIS AREA, WOULD HAVE BEEN, OR WHOEVER WOULD DO THIS, WHO IS IN THIS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1846 AREA, WOULD TRY TO LOOK AT THE VARIATION, WOULD TRY TO LOOK AT THIS. AND, ALSO, THE OTHER THING HERE IS SOME OF THIS IS DONE ON A MASS BASIS. THE FIRST GRAPH IS DONE ON A CONCENTRATION BASIS. SO, YOU'RE EXPRESSING DIFFERENT UNITS. SO, I WOULDN'T EX -- THIS DOESN'T DISTURB ME. THEY'RE TELLING YOU DIFFERENT THINGS. Q. I SEE, OKAY. I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT. CAN YOU TELL ME THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MASS AND CONCENTRATION? A. WELL, THE MASS UNITS, FOR EXAMPLE, CONCENTRATION IS IN, LIKE, MICROGRAMS PER GRAM, OR MILLIGRAMS PER KILOGRAMS, EXPRESSED IN DRY WEIGHT, WHEREAS THE MASS IS PER UN -- ALSO INCLUDES THAT PLUS THE WEIGHT PER UNIT AREA -- IN OTHER WORDS, GRAMS PER METER SQUARED, METRIC TONS PER HECTARE, METRIC TONS PER SQUARE KILOMETER. IT'S A WEIGHT PER UNIT AREA. Q. AS OPPOSED TO A VOLUME PER UNIT, OR--- A. AS OPPOSED TO JUST HAVING A CONCENTRATION, A CONCENTRATION. Q. OKAY. A. TO GET THE MASS, YOU NEED TO KNOW THEN, BULK DENSITY, AND YOU NEED TO KNOW THE AREA, SO YOU CAN EXPRESS -- YOU CAN EXPRESS THIS. Q. IS CONCENTRATION, THEN, A FIRST STEP AND MASS A SUBSEQUENT CALCULATION? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1847 A. WELL, THEY'RE FOR DIFFER -- THEY CAN BE USED FOR DIFFERENT THINGS. CONCENTRATION JUST GIVES YOU SOME IDEA WHETHER OR NOT, IN FACT, THE LEVEL OF A PARTICULAR ION, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IS THE LEVEL OF THAT? IN THE CASE OF A SOIL, IS PER UNIT WEIGHT. IN THE CASE OF WATER, IT'S PER UNIT VOLUME. AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO PUT THAT ON SOME KIND OF SPACE RELATIONSHIP, YOU THEN NEED TO KNOW THE BULK DENSITY, TOTAL WEIGHT, AND THE TOTAL AREA. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THE METRIC TON FIGURES ARE FOR PHOSPHORUS OR FOR SOIL? A. I REALLY HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE METRIC TON FIGURES VERY MUCH. I THINK THOSE WOULD BE -- I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WOULD HAVE DONE SOIL. I MEAN, MY GUESS IS -- OR MY ESTIMATE HERE WOULD BE OF THIS -- THAT WOULD BE THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS THAT WAS STORED IN THERE. Q. LET'S LOOK AT THAT FIRST MAP ON EXHIBIT TWELVE AGAIN, AND THEN THE CORRESPONDING NUMBER ON TABLE ONE. IS THAT CORRESPONDING NUMBER -- IS THAT DERIVED BY USING A PLANIMETER, OR A COMPUTER TO CALCULATE ALL OF THE AREA WITHIN THE SIX HUNDRED? A. I'M SURE IT WAS DONE BY COMPUTER. Q. OKAY. AND THE -- DOES MAP ONE SHOW ALL OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1848 WCA-2A. DO THE BOUNDARIES LOOK -- NOTHING IS CUT OFF THERE, IS IT? EXCEPT THE--- A. A LITTLE TINY TIP. I THINK THAT INCLUDES MOST OF IT. Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW THE TOTAL AREA OF WCA-2A? A. APPROXIMATELY 44,000 HECTARES, I BELIEVE. Q. OR APPROXIMATELY 110,000 ACRES. DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT? A. I GUESS, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q. CAN I CONCLUDE FROM THAT, AND FROM THE REDDY CALCULATION, THAT APPROXIMATELY, OR A LITTLE LESS THAN ONE FOURTH OF WCA-2A HAS BEEN -- I'VE FORGOTTEN THE TERM YOU USED, BUT YOU HAD A GOOD ONE. IS IT WITHIN THE AREA OF ENRICHMENT? A. I WOULD INCLUDE THAT TO BE THE CASE, YES, OR CONCLUDE. I MAY HAVE SAID INCLUDE, BUT I CONCLUDE THAT, YES, SIR. Q. AS WE GO TO THE SECOND AND THIRD PAGES, AND FOURTH OF EXHIBIT TWELVE, ARE THOSE -- DO THOSE REFLECT DIFFERENT METHODS OF KRIGING? A. EXCUSE ME, AS WE JUST GO BACK THROUGH THESE, YOU MEAN? Q. YES, SIR. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1849 A. I BELIEVE, AS I SAID EARLIER, SOME OF THEM ARE FOR DIFFERENT UNITS, AND SOME OF THEM ARE, AS IT SAYS AT THE TOP, FOR EXAMPLE, USING DIRECTIONAL VARIOGRAMS, OR ISOTROPIC VARIOGRAMS. THESE ARE, AS THEY ARE EXPLAINED TO ME, DIFFERENT KRIGING ALGORITHMS THAT THEY USE TO TRY -- AS YOU CAN SEE, YOU END UP WITH DIFFERENT SHAPES HERE, PLUS THE OTHER ONES WHICH ARE A BIT CONFUSING ARE THE STANDARD DEVIATIONS, WHICH WOULD BE LIKE SAYING THE NUMBERS FORTY, PLUS OR MINUS THREE, AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE THREE, YOU'D SAY THAT'S MUCH DIFFERENT THAN FORTY, BUT THEY'RE TOTALLY DIFFERENT STATISTICS. Q. FOR EXAMPLE, PAGE 074, ABOUT HALFWAY BACK, IS THAT ONE THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT? A. RIGHT, THAT'S A HALF STANDARD DEVIATION, "MASS PLUS 1/2 KRIGING ERROR." AND I'M JUST -- I'M GIVING YOU MY SORT OF OPINIONS OF THIS. I DID NOT GENERATE THIS, NOR THIS IS NOT MINE. I--- Q. I UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLETELY. WERE THEY GENERATED AT YOUR REQUEST, THESE MAPS? A. NOT ALL OF THESE, NO. I SIMPLY ASKED FOR -- I BELIEVE I ASKED DR. DAVIS, BECAUSE HE HAD THE DATABASE, AND I DID NOT. COULD HE -- I HAD ALREADY GENERATED, BUT FROM MY OWN DATA SET, BY HAND, THE ENRICHMENT AREA DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1850 FOR THE DATA WE HAD. I ASKED DR. DAVIS IF HE HAD THE DATA, AND I DID NOT HAVE THE KRIGING TECHNIQUES. COULD HE -- AND I BELIEVE THIS IS FROM DR. DAVIS, ALTHOUGH I'M NOT POSITIVE, I THINK IT IS -- COULD HE GENERATE SOME CONTOUR LINES. AND HE DID, AND I DID NOT ASK FOR ALL OF THIS OTHER STUFF. I -- AS I SAID, SOME OF THIS, I--- Q. WHAT -- WHEN YOU CALCULATED YOUR OWN BY HAND, YOU JUST MENTIONED, WHAT NUMBERS DID YOU COME UP WITH, FOR ENRICHED AREA? A. 11,500 HECTARES. Q. AND COULD WE MAKE SIMILAR CALCULATIONS OF THE AREA WHICH IS IN THE FOUR HUNDRED RANGE OR BELOW? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN SIMILAR CALCULATION. DO YOU MEAN HOW MUCH AREA IS THERE? Q. YES, YES. A. YOU COULD BE, SURELY -- YOU COULD CALCULATE AREAS FOR EACH OF THOSE CATEGORIES. I DIDN'T HAPPEN TO SEE THOSE, BUT, I MEAN, YOU -- THAT COULD BE DONE. Q. COULD WE USE THESE MAPS TO GET AN IDEA OF WHAT THE BACKGROUND SOIL PHOSPHORUS LEVELS ARE IN WCA-2A? A. WHICH AREAS? Q. I DON'T REMEMBER NOW WHERE I -- WHERE AREAS CAME IN THE QUESTION. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1851 A. YOU SAID COULD WE USE THESE AREAS, AND I'M JUST ASKING WHICH AREAS. Q. COULD BE USE THIS MAP, THE FIRST MAP, FOR EXAMPLE, ON 063? AND I DIDN'T MEAN AREAS AT ALL, YOU'RE RIGHT. MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, YOU COULD GET SOME ESTIMATE OF THIS. THIS IS THE KRIGING TECHNIQUE. AS I SAID, EVEN THOUGH IT LOOKS RATHER ELEGANT, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER IT'S BASED ON SPATIAL DATA POINTS THAT GIVES YOU AN APPROXIMATION, AND THAT'S WHY THE PEOPLE WHO DO KRIGING TRY A VARIETY OF TECHNIQUES, AND TRY TO HAVE THE MOST DATA THEY HAVE TO GET -- THE MORE DATA YOU HAVE, THE MORE ACCURATE NUMBERS YOU GET. SO, THIS IS SORT OF LIKE A GENERAL SOILS MAP, PRODUCED LIKE SDS. YOU GO AND YOU OBTAIN A COUNTY SOILS MAP, AND YOU ARE TOLD YOU HAVE SANDY LOAM SOIL, AND YOU GO OUT TO BUY YOUR HOUSE -- AND THIS HAPPENED TO A FRIEND OF MINE -- AND WHEN HE BOUGHT THE LOT, IT SAID IT WAS SANDY LOAM, AND WHEN HE DUG THE FOUNDATION AND PUT THE THINGS IN, HE WAS ON SOLID CLAY, IT'S BECAUSE THE SOIL SURVEYS ARE DONE ON HALF MILE GRIDS, AND SO THEY DO THE BEST THEY CAN. THIS INFORMATION IS DONE ROUGHLY ON -- I DON'T REMEMBER THE SCALE -- THE KRIGING TECHNIQUE TRIES TO INTERPOLATE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1852 BETWEEN THOSE POINTS. YOU COULD COME UP WITH SOME GENERAL AREAS. THE MOST ACCURATE WAY TO DO THAT IS TO DO SURVEYS ALONG THOSE POINTS IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. Q. OKAY, I THINK I ASKED THE WRONG QUESTION, AS IT TURNS OUT. CAN WE MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE BACKGROUND AREA IS, AND A BACKGROUND NUMBER IS IN 2A, BY LOOKING AT THIS MAP? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. YOU CAN MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT THAT. AS I SAID, THE MOST ACCURATE WAY TO DO IT WOULD BE TO LOOK AT THE ACTUAL SOIL DATA, AND SPECIFIC CORES, AND THEN FROM THAT YOU CAN DETERMINE BACKGROUND AREAS--- Q. OKAY. A. ---WHICH I HAVE -- I HAVE DONE THIS, FOR EXAMPLE. Q. YOU HAVE DONE THAT? A. WE'VE TAKEN EXTENSIVE CORES IN 2A TO TRY TO DETERMINE THAT. Q. ALL RIGHT. AND HAVE YOU REACHED ANY CONCLUSION ABOUT BACKGROUND LEVEL? IS THIS THE SAME 600 THAT YOU REFERRED TO EARLIER? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. NO, I THINK THE 600 WAS CONSIDERED -- AND DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1853 ABOVE -- WAS CONSIDERED IN THE ELEVATED CLASS. I WAS SAYING BACKGROUND LEVELS WOULD BE 500 OR BELOW, REPRESENTATIVE OF THIS PARTICULAR REGION, AND THEY -- YOU KNOW, FROM SITE TO SITE, YOU MAY HAVE 250, YOU MAY HAVE 350, 450, 570, 490. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH INDIVIDUAL CORE TO DETERMINE THAT. Q. OKAY. DID YOU FIND IN YOUR SAMPLING LEVELS IN THE 250 RANGE OR BELOW? A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT ALL MY CORES TO SEE THIS. I JUST DON'T REMEMBER OFFHAND. I THINK -- I JUST HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE CORES TO SEE. I CAN'T SAY SPECIFICALLY IF WE FOUND THEM THAT LOW, BUT I THINK I GAVE YOU THE NUMBER BEFORE WE USED AS A ROUND NUMBER, 500, YOU KNOW, AND IT MAY BE AS LOW AS SOME IN THE 400 RANGE, AND SO I WOULD DEFINITELY CONSIDER THE 400 RANGE, AS SHOWN HERE, DEFINITELY IN THE BACKGROUND LEVEL. Q. JUST FOR A MOMENT BACK AT NUMBER ELEVEN, HAVE YOU SELECTED ONE OF THESE ACREAGE AREAS AS THE PROPER ONE, OR MOST LIKELY TO BE THE PROPER ONE? A. I DID NOT--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. ---I DID NOT UTILIZE THESE AREAS, ONLY AS A CHECK ON THE CALCULATIONS THAT I DID MYSELF. I DID NOT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1854 USE THESE AREAS. Q. DID ANY OF THESE CONFORM TO YOUR OWN CALCULATIONS? A. AS I THINK I STATED EARLIER, THE BOTTOM ONE FOR JUST THE TOTAL CONCENTRATION WAS A CHECK TO TRY TO VERIFY THE WESTERN SECTION OF 2A. WE HAD REALLY DONE OUR OWN, AND I JUST WANTED SOME IDEA, SINCE THIS DATA WAS AVAILABLE, WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD EVEN GIVE ME SOME APPROXIMATION OF WHAT DR. REDDY HAD FOUND IN OTHER REGIONS, AND SO I USED AS A CHECK. THIS ACTUALLY -- THIS DATA CAME LONG AFTER I HAD DONE OUR EARLY CORES. Q. AND I BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE SATISFIED THAT THEY DID SUBSTANTIATE EACH OTHER. IS THAT CORRECT? A. FOR THE MOST PART, WHERE WE HAVE SOME DATA THERE WHERE SOME LOCATIONS IN THE SOUTHERN SECTION OF -- WELL, SOUTH OF THE D, C, AND A, WHERE WE'VE HAD FAR MORE EXTENSIVE DATA THAN DR. REDDY, AND WE UTILIZED OUR DATA THERE. WE WERE MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE WITH OUR DATA, TO UTILIZE THAT. THERE WAS NO REASON TO USE DR. REDDY'S DATA IF IT WASN'T COLLECTED IN AS A DETAILED FASHION, SO WE UTILIZED THAT THERE. Q. OKAY. LET'S TURN TO EXHIBIT THIRTEEN, PLEASE. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT DOCUMENT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1855 (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. IT APPEARS TO BE THE DATA THAT WAS GENERATED BY DR. PATRICK, I BELIEVE, FOR THE LOXAHATCHEE SAMPLING, ACCESS AND ENTRY. Q. I APPRECIATE THAT YOU DIDN'T PREPARE THIS, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN A LITTLE OF IT TO ME. FIGURE TWO, PLEASE, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THAT SHOWS AND WHAT OPINIONS MIGHT BE DERIVED FROM IT? A. THIS LOOKS TO ME LIKE A TRANSECT THAT WAS TAKEN FROM THE EDGE OF THE CANAL, LOXAHATCHEE, WEST TO EAST. AS YOU MENTIONED, I DID NOT PREPARE THIS, NOR COLLECT THE DATA, AND IT SHOWS PHOSPHORUS IN GRAMS PER SQUARE METER, TO A 30 CENTIMETER DEPTH THAT RANGES FROM ABOUT 27 WITHIN -- IT'S HARD TO APPROXIMATE -- A FEW HUNDRED METERS OF THE CANAL THAT DROPS TO A LEVEL OF ABOUT -- I DON'T KNOW -- SEVEN, LETS SAY, TO 8500 METERS FROM THE CANAL. IT DROPS PRECIPITOUSLY WITHIN THE FIRST 500 METERS TO, I WOULD SAY, WHAT APPEARS TO BE ALMOST BACKGROUND. IT WOULD PROBABLY BE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE STATISTICALLY TO JUST, AT FIRST BLUSH, SAY THERE WAS MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EIGHT AND SEVEN, GOING ACROSS. Q. IF YOU WOULD TURN TO THE NEXT PAGE, HOW IS -- WHAT IS THAT, AND HOW DOES IT DIFFER FROM -- IS IT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1856 SIMPLY SUPERIMPOSING SOMETHING ON THE FIRST GRAPH? A. THIS APPEARS TO SPLIT THE DATA INTO WHAT IS IN THE UPPER PROFILE, THE 0-15 CENTIMETERS, FROM WHAT IS THE BOTTOM PROFILE, 15-30 CENTIMETERS, SO THAT THIS DEMONSTRATES THAT MOST OF THE PHOSPHORUS IS RETAINED IN THE UPPER 15 CENTIMETERS, AND, IN FACT, THERE'S ONLY EVEN A SLIGHT HINT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING AT THE FIRST STATION, BELOW 15 CENTIMETERS. Q. WHAT CONCLUSION CAN WE REACH FROM THOSE TWO TAKEN TOGETHER? A. THAT THERE IS ELEVATED PHOSPHORUS CLOSE TO THE CANAL, WITHIN WHATEVER THAT DISTANCE IS, I'M NOT SURE, WHICH DROPS OFF TO WHAT APPEARS TO BE BACKGROUND LEVELS AS WE MOVE FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY FROM THE CANAL, AND THAT MOST OF THAT IS CONTAINED IN THE UPPER 15 CENTIMETERS. Q. WOULD YOU HAVE ANY OPINION OF WHY THE LATTER IS TRUE, WHY THE PHOSPHORUS IS IN THE UPPER 15 CENTIMETERS? A. I BELIEVE IT'S DUE TO THE WATER IN THE CANAL THAT'S ADJACENT TO THAT, THAT THE WATER -- I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT THE SOILS HERE, TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOT SOMETHING DIFFERENT ABOUT THE SOIL CONTEXT; BUT, BY AND LARGE, THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME ADDITION OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1857 PHOSPHORUS WITHIN THAT -- WHATEVER THAT ZONE IS. Q. THIS MAY BE WAY OFF TRACK, BUT WOULD THE REASON FOR THE DIFFERENCE BE, MOST PHOSPHORUS IN THE UPPER PART, BECAUSE THE PHOSPHORUS IN THE LOWER PART ACCUMULATED BEFORE THE CANALS WERE BUILT? A. WELL, WE'D HAVE TO DATE THE CORES TO SEE WHAT THE ACCRETION RATE IS THERE. I DIDN'T COLLECT THESE CORES, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE. IF I COULD SEE WHAT THE CORES LOOKED LIKE, I COULD DETERMINE WHETHER SOME OF THIS IS SPOILED THAT WAS DROPPED OVER, WHETHER SOME OF THIS HAS SOME OTHER TYPE OF DISTURBANCE FEATURE TO IT, OR WHETHER IT WAS SIMPLY A TRUE PROFILE THAT BUILT UP. I MEAN, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT. I DON'T KNOW. BUT IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THERE IS ELEVATED PHOSPHORUS IN THAT CORE, IN THE UPPER PORTION. Q. COULD YOU TURN, PLEASE, TO FIGURE SIX IN THAT SAME EXHIBIT? DOES THAT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU? A. FIGURE SIX? Q. YES, SIR, UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER, THE FIGURE WORD. A. THIS APPEARS TO BE A CESIUM-137 PROFILE. Q. DOES THAT SUGGEST THAT THE PERSON WHO PUTS THIS TOGETHER WAS TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE CONCERN THAT YOU JUST EXPRESSED, THAT IS, WHETHER THIS WAS LAYERED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1858 OVER TIME, OR DISRUPTED SOME TIME DURING THE PERIOD? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM, COUNSEL, I CAN'T FROM THIS TELL WHICH -- WHAT RELATES TO WHAT GRAPHS, AND--- A. WELL, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS DETERMINE -- THIS IS A CORE. IF WE KNEW THE CORE WAS TAKEN AT THE SAME LOCATION, THEN THIS PERSON WOULD HAVE SOME INDICATION OF THE RATE OF PEAT BUILDUP AND THE DEPTH OF PEAT, AND HE COULD DO THAT. THIS IS THE SAME CESIUM TECHNIQUE THAT I USE, SO THAT ONE WHO DID THIS WOULD BE ABLE TO DETERMINE A RATE OF PEAT ACCRETION. WHAT I DON'T KNOW IS, I DON'T KNOW WHERE LRO5-44 IS. Q. ALL I MEANT TO ASK, DOES THE FACT THAT THIS IS INCLUDED IN THIS EXHIBIT INDICATE THAT WHOEVER PREPARED IT WAS AT LEAST AWARE OF THAT -- OF THAT PROBLEM, THAT YOU WERE AWARE OF, THAT ONE HAS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT DATING AND ACCUMULATION OVER TIME? A. I'M SURE. DR. PATRICK IS A WORLD'S EXPERT IN SOILS AND HELPED DEVELOPED THIS TECHNIQUE. HE'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE WORLD'S LEADING EXPERTS ON THIS -- PROBABLY I'D SAY THE LEADING EXPERT. Q. THAT, I DIDN'T REALIZE. HAVE YOU TALKED TO DR. PATRICK ABOUT THIS WORK? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1859 A. ONLY IN GENERAL TERMS. I'VE NOT GONE INTO GREAT DETAIL. WE HAVE DISCUSSED, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO SENT ME THIS, IT PROBABLY -- BUT ANYWAYS, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN SEVERAL MEETINGS, JUST IN GENERAL TERMS. I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH IT IN GREAT DETAIL. Q. OKAY, LET'S MOVE TO FOURTEEN, PLEASE. A. OKAY. Q. DO YOU KNOW HOW THIS -- IS THIS PART OF THE SAME STUDY OF DR. PATRICK THAT WE'VE JUST BEEN DISCUSSING? A. JUST GIVE ME ONE MOMENT TO PEEK AT THIS. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. YES, IT'S -- I BELIEVE IT'S A PART OF THE SAME ENTRY AND ACCESS, AND IT SHOWS LOCATIONS AS WELL AS SOME OF THE BASIC CHEMISTRIES THAT DR. PATRICK'S LAB WOULD HAVE PERFORMED ON THE CORES THAT HE TOOK IN THE LOXAHATCHEE. Q. WOULD YOU TURN TO THE PAGE WHICH IS 1323868, UP THREE FROM THE BACK, THREE OR FOUR? IS THAT ANOTHER CESIUM CROSS-SECTION? A. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT IS ANOTHER CORE THAT IS USED FOR -- CESIUM CORE, DATING CORE. Q. I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH THINGS BEFORE THIS, BEFORE PAPER ARRIVED. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1860 THAT'S SHOWING? THE -- IS THE ZERO, FOR EXAMPLE, IS THAT -- DO YOU SEE THAT? A. THAT'S THE SOIL SURFACE. Q. ALL RIGHT. A. THAT'S THE SOIL SURFACE. AND WHAT YOU HAVE--- MR. GREEN: WHICH EXHIBIT ARE WE ON? MR. REED: FOURTEEN. A. ---WHAT YOU HAVE -- WHAT YOU HAVE IS A CESIUM PEAK. THE WAY IN WHICH THE CESIUM TECHNIQUE WORKS IS, OR DOESN'T WORK IN SOME PLACES, BUT IT WORKS IN MOST -- WHEN IT WORKS, IT WORKS WELL, AND USUALLY YOU GET A VERY DISTINCT PEAK AS WHAT YOU SEE HERE, AND THAT INDICATES AS A RESULT OF THE ATMOSPHERIC NUCLEAR TESTING THAT WAS DONE BY THE RUSSIANS AND THE U.S. FRANTICALLY IN THE '60'S -- IT STARTED IN '54 -- THE GLOBE WAS BLANKETED WITH RADIOACTIVE CESIUM, WHICH HAS A FAIRLY LONG HALF LIFE, AND IT WAS LAID DOWN IN BOTTOMS OF LAKES, STREAMS, SEDIMENTS, AND WETLANDS, AND IF IT -- IF THERE'S JUST ENOUGH CLAY AND THE RIGHT CONDITIONS, THAT CESIUM WILL ATTACH AND STAY, AND YOU WILL GET THE PEAK, PROVIDING THERE'S NOT MIXING AND TURBULENCE AND THINGS HAPPEN WHICH DESTROYS THE VALUE OF THAT PEAK, OR YOU GET TWO OR THREE PEAKS, AND IT NOTES OF VALUE. BUT IF IT WORKS CORRECTLY, THEN YOU DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1861 GET THIS PEAK, WHICH IS -- PEOPLE QUIBBLE, BUT IT'S APPROXIMATELY A 1964 PEAK. SOME PEOPLE SAY IT'S THE LATTER HALF OF '63; BUT IT'S A '64 PEAK. FROM THAT POINT, WHEN YOU DETERMINE THAT PEAK, IF IT'S A GOOD PEAK, YOU THEN CAN CALCULATE TO THE SURFACE THE RATE OF ACCRETION. SO, THAT SAYS THIS PARTICULAR CORE HAS BEEN ACCRETING, APPROXIMATELY FROM '64, DEPENDING ON THE YEAR YOU COLLECTED IT, SOMEWHERE -- I CAN'T READ EXACTLY -- BUT SOMEWHERE AROUND 12 CENTIMETERS OF PEAT, OR OF SEDIMENT OR WHATEVER ELSE MATERIAL WAS THERE. Q. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S TYPICALLY DONE WITH EACH SOIL SAMPLE? A. NO, IT'S A VERY EXPENSIVE, VERY LABORIOUS, VERY TIME CONSUMING PROCESS, SO IT'S DONE ON SELECTIVE CORES TO GIVE REPRESENTATIVE NUMBERS. WE HAVE PROBABLY DONE MORE CESIUM PEAKS IN THE EVERGLADES THAN ANYONE, MEANING MY LAB. DR. PATRICK HAS DONE SOME. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE SOME. Q. AND IT'S A MEANS OF TELLING YOU WHAT THE ACCRETION RATE HAS BEEN, AT LEAST SINCE 1964? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. OKAY. THE FOLLOWING PAGE SEEMS TO HAVE A SIMILAR DIAGRAM. A. THAT'S CORRECT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1862 Q. IS THAT TELLING US THAT AT -- IS THIS A SEPARATE SOIL SAMPLE? A. YES, IT APPEARS TO BE IDENTIFIED WITH A DIFFERENT NUMBER, SO IT'S A DIFFERENT -- A DIFFERENT LOCATION, APPARENTLY. Q. AND A LOCATION WITH A MUCH SLOWER ACCRETION RATE, APPARENTLY? A. THE ACCRETION RATE THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE IN THE FIVE CENTIMETER RANGE. Q. OKAY. THANKS, I SEE WHAT THAT'S ALL ABOUT NOW. EXHIBIT FIFTEEN, PLEASE. DO YOU KNOW THE SOURCE OF THIS DOCUMENT? A. HUM, JUST GIVE ME A MOMENT HERE. WHEN YOU SAY THE "SOURCE," WHO PRODUCED IT AND GAVE IT TO ME? Q. YES, YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT. A. MOST OF THESE DOCUMENTS THAT I GET, I THINK SAYS BELOW HERE, PREPARED BY, AT LEAST ON THE FRONT COVER, ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICE AND PERMITTING. MOST OF THESE DOCUMENTS LIKE THIS CAME OUT OF ES&P OFFICE. COURT REPORTER: ES&P? WITNESS: ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES AND PERMITTING. Q. (BY MR. REED) THAT'S DR. DAVIS, IS THAT CORRECT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1863 A. THAT'S DR. DAVIS'S LABORATORY, CORRECT, OR COMPANY. Q. OKAY. WHAT DOES THE MAP ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THAT EXHIBIT SHOW EXACTLY? A. THIS MAP SHOWS THE -- I THINK IT WAS -- THE PREDETERMINED SELECTION GRID FOR WATER QUALITY STATIONS AND THEN IT HAS, OF COURSE, SOME OTHER INFORMATION ON IT, STRUCTURES. IT ALSO SHOWS DR. PATRICK'S STATION DATA, SAMPLE POINTS. IT SHOWS THE SAMPLE POINTS FROM MY LABORATORY. IT ALSO APPEARS TO SHOW A SHADED IN AREA OF CATTAILS, AND GIVES, YOU KNOW, THE LAT/LONG. AND IT'S A LOCATION MAP. Q. DO YOU KNOW HOW THE CATTAIL AREAS WERE CALCULATED? A. I DO NOT. Q. OKAY. IF WE COULD PLEASE TURN TO PAGE TWO OF THAT DOCUMENT, WHICH IS A -- HAS A GRAPH. CAN YOU INTERPRET THAT FOR ME, PLEASE? A. PAGE--- Q. I'M SORRY, IT SAYS PAGE ONE, IT'S THE SECOND PAGE OF THE EXHIBIT, HOWEVER. A. OKAY, IS THAT THE ONE WITH BATES NUMBER 4326? Q. IT SHOULD BE -25. A. I'M SORRY. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1864 Q. THEY BOTH SAY PAGE ONE. THEY ALL SAY PAGE ONE. A. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S CONFUSING. THIS APPEARS TO BE -- AGAIN, I DID NOT PREPARE THIS -- THIS IS A PLOT OF PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION IN THE SOIL PROFILE, UPPER TWO CENTIMETERS DEPTH AS WE MOVE FROM THE CANAL EASTWARD. Q. CAN YOU POINT OUT WHERE THAT WOULD BE ON THE MAP THAT YOU LOOKED AT FIRST, OR CAN WE TELL FROM THIS? A. LR21 THROUGH LR26. WE COULD GO BACK AND CONSTRUCT. LET'S SEE, LR -- LR21 IS AT THE BOTTOM. AND I THINK YOU WOULD SEE GOING 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, GOING NORTH--- Q. RIGHT, OKAY. A. ---THAT'S THEY WAY I INTERPRET IT, I MEAN. Q. ALL RIGHT. A. AND THEN LR18-LR27, I THINK THAT'S ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, AND I THINK YOU CAN SEE THAT THAT TRAVERSES FROM WEST TO EAST, GOING INTO THE INTERIOR. Q. ALL RIGHT. LET'S LOOK FOR A MOMENT AT LR21. IS THAT AT THE CANAL, OR NORTH OF THE CANAL, DOCTOR? A. WELL, I REMEMBER DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHERE LR21 WAS, AND I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. I MEAN, I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHERE THEY PUT IT. I CAN'T TELL YOU. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1865 I CAN ONLY SHOW -- I CAN ONLY SAY WHAT I SEE HERE IN THIS FIGURE. I DIDN'T COLLECT THESE, SO I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS. Q. IN THE FIGURE, IT SHOWS IT TO BE SOME DISTANCE NORTH OF THE CANAL, DOES IT NOT? A. THE FIGURE SHOWS IT TO BE THAT, BUT--- Q. BUT YOU HAVE OTHER REASON TO BELIEVE THAT IT MAY ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN AT THE CANAL? A. WELL, I CAN -- WHAT I CANNOT TELL HERE IS THAT THERE ARE OTHER DOTS DOWN BELOW. I HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AND SEE -- 24, 23, 22 -- SEE, WHERE IT SAYS 21, THERE'S A DOT SITTING IN THE -- SIR, DO YOU FOLLOW ME? Q. I DO. A. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TYPE -- IT LOOKS LIKE THEY COULDN'T TYPE THEM ALL IN, AND SO IF YOU FIRST LOOKED AT IT, YOU'D THINK 21 IS SITTING MUCH FURTHER IN, BUT I BELIEVE THAT 21 REFERS THE DOT THAT'S STUCK IN THE CATTAIL ZONE SOMEWHERE DOWN THERE. Q. THAT APPEARS TO BE THE CASE, DOESN'T IT? AND THAT IS, IS IT NOT, SOME DISTANCE NORTH OF THE CANAL? A. YEAH. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT DISTANCE THAT IS. I DON'T--- Q. OKAY. LET'S GO BACK TO YOU WERE EXPLAINING FOR US WHAT -- WHAT THE GRAPH ON 4325 REFERS TO. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1866 A. I'M SORRY, THIS SAME DOCUMENT? Q. YES, YES, THE NEXT PAGE AFTER THE MAP. A. YOU WANT ME TO SWITCH TO THE NEXT PAGE, PAGE 26? Q. 25. A. OKAY. Q. PLEASE, AND I THINK YOU STARTED TO TELL US WHAT THAT MEANT, AND I PROBABLY INTERRUPTED YOU. A. IT SHOWS THE MICROGRAMS PER GRAM IN THE UPPER TWO CENTIMETERS, THE AMOUNT OF CONCENTRATION OF PHOSPHORUS. THE UPPER TRIANGLE ONE, WHICH IS THE LR18, SHOWS -- I DON'T KNOW -- 2400 MICROGRAMS PER GRAM, AND DROPS PRECIPITOUSLY DOWN TO A FEW HUNDRED METERS, I GUESS. I CAN'T TELL THE DISTANCE FROM THIS SCALE. WELL, EXCUSE ME, THIS IS IN FEET, SO THEY'VE CHANGED THE SALE ON THIS AND THIS IS IN FEET. SO, THEN IT DROPS DOWN TO SOME, WHAT APPEARS TO BE JUST LIKE 500 TO 600, AND THEN IT DROPS DOWN JUST TO SOMEWHERE IN THE 400 RANGE. THE LR21 STARTS AT JUST ABOVE 500, SOMEWHERE IN THERE A LITTLE BIT, DROPS DOWN, AND THEN IT PRETTY MUCH FLATTENS OUT. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER LR18 IS RIGHT IN THE CANAL, THE WESTERNMOST OF THE WEST--- A. IN THE CANAL? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1867 Q. YES, SIR. A. IT WOULDN'T BE IN THE CANAL--- Q. OKAY. A. ---I MEAN, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING -- I WAS NOT ON THIS SURVEY, SO I'M SORRY IF I'M A LITTLE VAGUE -- BUT I'M SURE DR. PATRICK CAN TELL YOU, AND I THINK DR. DAVIS CAN TELL YOU WHERE THESE ARE. BUT AGAIN, IT APPEARS TO BE ADJACENT TO, AND THEY HAVE PLOTTED THE DISTANCE, ALTHOUGH AS I SAY, WHEN YOU HAVE SUCH A BROAD SCALE, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO TELL YOU HOW MANY FEET. YOU CAN GET AN APPROXIMATION. Q. LET'S LOOK AT THE GRAPH AGAIN. AT THE 5,000 FOOT DISTANCE, WHICH IS--- A. ARE WE ON 26 NOW? Q. NO, 25, I'M JUST USING 25 AS AN EXAMPLE. A. OKAY. Q. AT THE 5,000 FOOT DISTANCE, WHICH IS ALMOST A STATUTE MILE, WOULD THE -- WOULD THE WATER AT THAT POINT, OR THESE ARE SOIL SAMPLES--- A. THESE ARE SOIL. Q. EXCUSE ME -- THE SOIL AT THAT POINT, THEN, BE MORE AFFECTED BY CANAL WATER THAN THOSE OVER AT THE RIGHT-HAND OF THE SCALE AT 25,000-30,000? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1868 A. MORE AFFECTED -- WELL, LET'S SEE, THAT WOULD BE SIX MILES VERSUS ONE MILE. THE NUMBERS, WELL, FOR THE LR21 NUMBERS, AS I SAID, THEY'RE ALMOST FLAT. THEY SHOW ALMOST NOTHING. I MEAN, STATISTICALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS HERE, BUT I THINK IF YOU LOOKED AT 5,000 VERSUS 30,000 FOR THAT ONE, REMEMBERING THIS IS ONLY THE TOP TWO CENTIMETERS -- WHICH IS A VERY UNUSUAL DEPTH TO -- FOR PEOPLE TO PUT SOILS IN, BUT IT'S FINE. THE REASON I SAY THAT IS BECAUSE YOU GET HIGHER ACTIVITY OF PHOSPHORUS IN THE SOIL SURFACE A LOT OF PLACES, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BIOTA IN THERE, BUT, BE IT AS IT MAY, THOSE NUMBERS DON'T APPEAR TO BE MUCH DIFFERENT FOR THAT PARTICULAR SITE, AND THEY WOULD BE SLIGHTLY ELEVATED, IT WOULD APPEAR, FROM THE DISTANT SITES FOR THE LR18 VERSUS THE 27 SITE. Q. NOW, I ASKED WHETHER THE WESTERN -- THE 5,000 AREA WOULD BE MORE AFFECTED BY CANAL WATER, AND YOU RESPONDED IN TERMS OF WHAT THE LEVELS WERE. A. I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. Q. ARE THEY THE SAME THING? THEY MAY BE THE SAME THING. A. WELL, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO -- AS I SAY, IN FACT, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO KNOW. ALL THIS GRAPH DEMONSTRATES TO ME IS THAT THERE IS SLIGHTLY MORE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1869 ELEVATED PHOSPHORUS THERE. THAT'S ALL I CAN -- I MEAN, I--- Q. OKAY. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THE GRAPH SHOWS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PHOSPHORUS LEVELS IN THE SOIL AND DISTANCES FROM THE CANAL? A. I THINK THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP THAT'S SHOWN HERE, YES. Q. OKAY, NUMBER SIXTEEN, PLEASE. A. SIXTEEN, SORRY. Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS, DOCTOR? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. YEAH, IT'S NOT MY DOCUMENT, PER SE. IT'S A DOCUMENT THAT APPEARS TO BE FROM WAYNE HOFFMAN. Q. AND HE IS COMMENTING ON YOUR WORK, AS I UNDERSTAND. IS THAT CORRECT? A. I ASSUME SO. I'VE NEVER MET THE MAN. I DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS. Q. HAVE YOU READ THIS DOCUMENT? A. I LOOKED AT IT A LONG TIME AGO. Q. OKAY, THERE SIMPLY IS -- THERE ARE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS IN IT THAT ARE TOO TECHNICAL FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND, AND I'M HOPING THAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN THEM TO ME, THAT'S ALL. ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE HOFFMAN DOCUMENT, IN THE FIRST FULL -- FIRST DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1870 PARAGRAPH, ABOUT SIX LINES DOWN, HE SAYS, "RICHARDSON FOUND A POSITIVE Y-INTERCEPT WITH HIS UNCONSTRAINED REGRESSION." DOES THAT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU? IT DOESN'T TO ME. I WONDER IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN IT. A. I'VE GOT TO FIND IT HERE. YOU MEAN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH? Q. YES. A. HOW FAR DOWN? Q. ABOUT SIX LINES. MR. BURGESS: CURT, IF YOU NEED TO READ THE PARAGRAPH, OR--- MR. REED: YES, READ IT, SURE. A. OKAY, LET ME JUST READ THAT, JUST FOR A MINUTE. Q. SURE. AND THERE'S SOME GRAPHS ATTACHED THAT MAY BE HELPFUL, I DON'T KNOW. A. OKAY. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) MR. REED: WE CAN GO OFF THE RECORD FOR A MINUTE. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1871 MR. REED: WE CAN GO BACK ON THE RECORD. Q. (BY MR. REED) I'D LIKE TO ASK PHRASE BY PHRASE, AND MAYBE I CAN UNDERSTAND IT THAT WAY, BUT IF YOU DON'T -- IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HE MEANT, PLEASE SAY SO. HE SAYS, "RICHARDSON FOUND A POSITIVE Y-INTERCEPT." DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE MEANT BY THAT? A. WE HAD RUN A -- WE HAD RUN A REGRESSION, AND WE SIMPLY DID NOT FORCE THE INTERCEPT THROUGH ZERO, WHICH IS A STATISTICAL TECHNIQUE. AND WHEN THIS WAS DONE -- THIS WAS DONE, I BELIEVE, FOR A SAGE MEETING -- WE HAD MADE A -- I HAD MADE OUR FIRST ESTIMATES OF ACTUAL FIELD STORAGE, AND HAD TAKEN SOME OF THE DISTRICT'S FIRST APPROXIMATIONS ON THIS, AND SIMPLY RAN A REGRESSION TO SEE THE RELATIONSHIP. AND HE SIMPLY IS COMMENTING ON THE FACT THAT I FOUND A POSITIVE INTERCEPT. Q. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT A POSITIVE INTERCEPT MEANS. THAT'S MY PROBLEM. A. THAT MEANS WHEN YOU HAVE A Y-AXIS, IF YOU RAN IT DOWN, YOU FORCED IT -- YOU CAN FORCE A REGRESSION THROUGH ZERO, IT WOULD END UP AT ZERO ON THE X-AXES AND ZERO ON THE Y-AXES, SO THE POINT WOULD BE EXACTLY IN THE CORNER OF THE GRAPH. Q. GOT IT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1872 A. IF YOU DON'T DO THAT, THEN YOU LET IT FALL WHERE THE DATA SHOWS YOU, AND IT SITS ABOVE THAT, OR IT COULD SIT BELOW THAT. IN THIS CASE, IT SITS SLIGHTLY ABOVE THE Y-INTERCEPT. Q. OH, OKAY. SO, A POSITIVE Y-INTERCEPT MEANS THAT THE LINE CROSSES THE--- A. THE Y-INTERCEPT--- Q. ---THE Y-AXIS ABOVE THE X-AXIS? A. ---ABOVE ZERO. MR. REED: NOW IT MAKES MORE SENSE. OKAY. WELL, THIS IS A GOOD TIME FOR ME TO BREAK, IF IT IS FOR YOU. WITNESS: OKAY, FINE. -------------------------------------------------- (THEREUPON, THE DEPOSITION OF DR. RICHARDSON WAS RECESSED AT 11:56 A.M. TO BE RESUMED AT 8:30 A.M. ON APRIL 1, 1994.) -------------------------------------------------- THE FOLLOWING PORTION OF THE DEPOSITION OF DR. CURTIS J. RICHARDSON, WAS TAKEN ON THE 1ST DAY OF APRIL, 1994, BEGINNING AT OR AROUND 8:39 A.M. AT THE HILTON HOTEL, 3800 HILLSBOROUGH ROAD, THE EXECUTIVE BOARD ROOM, DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA, AND DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1873 WAS REPORTED BY CAROL S. YOUNG, A NOTARY PUBLIC. -------------------------------------------------- MR. REED: GOOD MORNING, DOCTOR. WITNESS: GOOD MORNING. EXAMINATION BY MR. REED CONTINUES: Q. COULD WE TURN TO EXHIBIT SEVENTEEN, PREVIOUSLY MARKED SEVENTEEN, PLEASE. A. DOWN AT THE BOTTOM? OH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. OKAY. NINETEEN, SEVENTEEN, SIXTEEN, EIGHTEEN -- OH -- NO. Q. NO. SEVENTEEN. A. WAIT A MINUTE, IT'S FIFTEEN, SIXTEEN -- THERE IT IS. IT WAS STAPLED TO THE--- Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT DOCUMENT? WITNESS: WELL, I CAN'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THIS MORNING -- APRIL FOOL. MR. REED: YOU HAD ME FRIGHTENED THERE. WITNESS: I HAD YOU -- I SAW THE LOOK ON YOUR FACE; I WASN'T SURE. A. YES, I RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT. Q. WHAT IS IT, SIR? A. THIS IS A COPY -- WELL, IT'S A XEROX OF A BRIEFING PAPER THAT WAS PRESENTED TO THE CO-OP. Q. OKAY. THE TITLE OF IT REFERS TO PHOSPHORUS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1874 LOADING RATES. I HAVE HEARD THE TERM "SETTLING RATES" USED; ARE THOSE THE SAME THING OR COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT "LOADING RATES" MEANS IF THEY'RE NOT? A. WELL, I CAN YOU TELL, WHAT "LOADING RATES" REFERS TO IS, HERE IS THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS THAT'S LOADED INTO A SYSTEM. Q. I SEE. A. AND I'M NOT REFERRING TO SETTLING RATES HERE, PER SE. Q. OKAY. WOULD YOU LOOK AT PAGE -- THE THIRD PAGE OF THAT DOCUMENT, WHICH IS -- THE DOCUMENT BEGINS WITH NUMBER 1323952, AND I'M LOOKING AT 1323954. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THAT GRAPH SHOWS, DOCTOR? A. 3954? Q. YES, SIR. TO BEGIN, WHAT'S -- WHAT DOES THE "Y" AXIS DEPICT? A. THAT -- THE "Y" AXIS IS THE OUTPUT PHOSPHORUS FROM -- THIS IS DATA FROM THE NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE, AND THAT IS THE OUTPUT FROM WETLAND SYSTEMS, AND -- SO, THAT'S WHAT IN GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR. Q. THE OUTPUT FROM WETLANDS SYSTEMS, IS THAT MEASURED FROM AN OUTFLOW OF VARIOUS WETLANDS SYSTEMS AROUND THE COUNTRY, THEN, IS THAT WHAT--- A. RIGHT. THAT'S -- THAT'S -- IN SOME WETLANDS THEY WOULD HAVE A DISTINCT OUT -- AN OUTFLOW POINT IN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1875 WHICH THEY COULD MEASURE IT FROM, AND IN SOME THEY WOULD NOT AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE CONCENTRATION DATA FOR THAT, AND THEN ESTIMATE VOLUME, AND THEN MULTIPLY THAT AND COME UP WITH AN ESTIMATED OUTPUT. BUT, IN ESSENCE, THAT IS THE OUTPUT MASS OUT OF THE SYSTEM. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT'S THE "X" AXIS, PLEASE? A. THIS IS THE INPUT PHOSPHORUS LOAD TO WETLANDS SYSTEMS IN GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR. Q. AND HOW WOULD WE READ IT? LET'S GO, FOR EXAMPLE -- STARTING WITH THE INPUT, GO TO THE 1.0--- A. OKAY. Q. ---AND THAT SHOWS US IF THEY'RE PUTTING IN 1, THEY ARE GETTING OUT A RANGE OF ALL OF THE DOTS WE SEE ABOVE 1, DOES THAT--- A. THEY'RE GETTING -- THEY'RE GETTING A RANGE ABOVE AND BELOW FROM THOSE SYSTEMS. Q. WELL, I'M LOOKING -- LOOKING NORTH, OR UP THE PAGE FROM 1, WE MIGHT SEE HALF A DOZEN DOTS, APPROXIMATELY, ON THE 1. A. YES, GOING UP. Q. AND THOSE ARE -- REPRESENT A HALF DOZEN DIFFERENT WETLANDS THAT HAVE BEEN MEASURED? A. CORRECT. I DON'T REMEMBER THE NUMBER. THE CONFUSING PART OF THIS, IF YOU'LL NOTICE, THERE'S A DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1876 TREMENDOUS NUMBER OF IT'S -- LOOKS LIKE OVERLAY--- Q. YES, SURE. A. ---CROSSES, AND SO WHAT YOU END UP, THE COMPUTER CAN'T -- ON THIS SCALE -- CAN'T REALLY PICK UP ALL OF THEM. I THINK THERE'S -- I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER, THREE OR FOUR HUNDRED SITES IN HERE. BUT ANYWAY, AT THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION THAT SHOWS YOU AS YOU INCREASE THE LOAD ON THE "X" AXIS GOING UP, YOU GET TO THE 1, YOU GO UP AND LOOK AT THAT, AND THE LINE IS DRAWN BASICALLY ON A ONE TO ONE RELATIONSHIP, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT, IN FACT, THESE ARE SOME OF THE RANGE OF VALUES YOU GET FOR LOAD OUT. Q. UH-HUH (YES). AND THEN THE LINE THAT RUNS SOUTHWEST TO NORTHEAST, WHAT DOES THAT REPRESENT, THE STRAIGHT--- A. THE DIAGONAL LINE? Q. YES, SIR. A. THIS LINE -- THIS LINE, I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND THINK. LET'S SEE, LET ME LOOK AT THIS. LET'S SEE. Q. THE SIMPLER THE EXPLANATION, THE BETTER. JUST SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT -- WHAT'S BEING SHOWN THERE. A. WELL, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHETHER THIS IS A REGRESSION LINE, OR -- IT BASICALLY IS, I THINK, A FIT TO THIS DATABASE. THERE'S NO EQUATION FOR IT, SO -- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1877 SO, ESSENTIALLY IT'S A FIT I BELIEVE THROUGH THAT DATA. Q. SO, IT APPROXIMATES AN AVERAGE OF THE POINTS ABOVE AND BELOW IT--- A. YEAH, I BELIEVE SO. Q. ---OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? OKAY. NOW, CAN WE USE THAT THEN TO, SAY, IF WE INPUT ONE, MOVE UP TO THAT LINE AND THEN MOVE TO THE "Y" AXIS, WHAT WE COULD EXPECT IN THE WAY OF OUTPUT, IS THAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS DIAGRAM? A. THAT WAS THE -- THAT'S THE GENERAL PURPOSE OF THIS TYPE OF DIAGRAM. PEOPLE HAVE USED THIS TYPE OF DIAGRAM, UNFORTUNATELY, ERRONEOUSLY TO TRY TO PREDICT WHAT THE OUTPUT WOULD BE FOR WETLANDS. Q. WHY IS THAT ERRONEOUS? A. WELL, IT TURNS OUT THAT, IN FACT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DATABASE, WHILE MOST PEOPLE CAN MEASURE THE FLOW OF WATER INTO A WETLAND, AND THEY MEASURE THE CONCENTRATION OF THE WETLAND IN, SO THE "X" AXIS IS A RELATIVELY ACCURATE NUMBER, BECAUSE WETLANDS QUITE OFTEN, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, SOME OF THESE WETLANDS HAVE -- IF THEY HAVE A VERY CLEAR DISCHARGE POINT, A PIPE OR SOMETHING, AND THEY'RE FAIRLY CONFINED, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE THE VOLUME OF WATER LEAVING IN THE CONCENTRATION. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1878 BUT, UNFORTUNATELY, FOR A NUMBER OF THESE SYSTEMS, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT AND SO THEY CAN'T ESTIMATE THE VOLUME OF WATER LOSS. AND SO WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO THERE TO GET THIS NUMBER IS, BASICALLY, QUITE OFTEN JUST UTILIZE THE INPUT VOLUME AND SAY THE OUTPUT VOLUME EQUALS THE INPUT VOLUME, WHICH DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT EVAPORATION AND SO FORTH. AND, SO, STATISTICALLY SPEAKING, YOU HAVE SORT OF A CORRELATION PROBLEM. YOU BASICALLY USE THE SAME VOLUME IN BOTH THE INPUT EQUATION SIDE AND THE OUTPUT EQUATION SIDE. SO, AS A RESULT OF THIS YOU GET A VERY NICE FIT TO THE DATA, BUT IT DOESN'T -- IT STATISTICALLY DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE, ALTHOUGH IT LOOKS VERY GOOD. STATISTICIANS TALK ABOUT SPURIOUS CORRELATIONS, THIS WOULD BE A SPURIOUS CORRELATION. Q. ARE YOU SAYING THAT THEY -- ALTHOUGH THEY CAN MEASURE THE INPUT FAIRLY EASILY, IT'S DIFFICULT TO MEASURE THE OUTPUT AND THEREFORE THEY -- DO THEY ASSUME IT TO BE THE SAME AS THE INPUT IN TOTAL -- IN TOTAL QUANTITY OF WATER? A. IN SOME -- YES, IN SOME CASES. THIS IS A VARIETY OF DATA SETS AROUND THE COUNTRY, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT. I'M NOT SAYING IN EVERY PLACE, I'M SAYING IN A NUMBER OF PLACES--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1879 Q. SURE. A. ---THAT THEY HAVE TO DO THAT OR THEY MAKE SOME ESTIMATE. AND THE REASON BEING IS THAT -- THEY WOULD LIKE TO MEASURE THE VOLUME, BUT IT MAY BE THAT YOU PUT NUTRIENTS INTO A WETLAND IN ONE END AND THE WETLAND IS, YOU KNOW, HALF A MILE WIDE, AND THERE'S NO STREAM, IT JUST FLOWS ACROSS THE SURFACE, AND MOVES INTO SEVEN OR EIGHT OR FIFTEEN DIFFERENT CHANNELS AND IT'S -- I'VE MEASURED WETLANDS LIKE THIS VERY MUCH. HOUGHTON LAKE IN MICHIGAN WHERE I WORKED FOR YEARS, A NUMBER OF PLACES, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE -- THE OUTFLOW MOVES ALL OVER THE PLACE, AND SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE THAT. SO, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SOME JUDGMENTS AND SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS, PEOPLE HAVE MADE THAT JUDGMENT. Q. HOW DO THEY MEASURE THE PHOSPHORUS CONTENT IN A CASE LIKE THAT? A. WELL, THAT IS USUALLY -- AS I SAID, THAT IS NOT USUALLY A PROBLEM ON THE INFLOW SIDE, IT CAN -- THEY USUALLY HAVE A PIPE ON INPUT. BUT ON THE OUTFLOW SIDE IT JUST VARIES BY SITE, HOW MUCH MONEY THEY HAVE. THEY MAY GO TO -- LET'S SUPPOSE THERE ARE SIX NOTICEABLE OUTFLOW POINTS IN THIS WETLAND. THEY MAY TAKE WATER SAMPLES IN ALL SIX; THE MAY AVERAGE THEM; DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1880 THEY MAY TAKE ONE IN THE MIDDLE; IT'S FAIRLY HARD TO KNOW. YOU'D HAVE TO GO TO THE INDIVIDUATE SITE OPERATORS AND SAY, "HOW CAN YOU DO THIS?" -- OR "HOW DID YOU DO THIS?" Q. OKAY. AND THEN THEY MEASURE -- THEY TAKE A QUANTITY OF THE WATER THERE AND MEASURE THE PHOSPHORUS IN IT? A. CORRECT. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IF THAT WEREN'T A PROBLEM, IF ONE HAD A DISTINCT INPUT AREA -- PLACE -- POINT AND A DISTINCT OUTPUT POINT AND SO COULD MEASURE THOSE ACCURATELY, WOULD THIS METHOD BE A WAY OF MEASURING THE SETTLING RATE? A. THE SETTLING RATE? Q. YES. WELL, LET ME START WITH THE -- A QUESTION THAT PROBABLY COMES BEFORE THAT. WOULD THIS TELL US HOW MUCH PHOSPHORUS HAS BEEN LEFT IN THE SYSTEM? A. NOT DIRECTLY. Q. OKAY. COULD WE TURN TO NUMBER EIGHTEEN, WHICH BEGINS WITH PAGE 1323959, PLEASE. A. 3859? Q. YES, SIR. A. THAT'S NUMBER FOURTEEN? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1881 Q. I THINK IT'S EIGHTEEN. 3959, I'M SORRY, 3959. AND IT'S THE BATES NUMBER THAT DOESN'T HAVE DCR IN FRONT OF IT. THERE ARE NOW TWO SYSTEMS HERE, SO IT'S GETTING MORE CONFUSING, BUT IT'S EIGHTEEN--- A. EIGHTEEN, I SEE IT. I SEE IT. Q. OKAY. NOW, WHAT IS THAT, SIR? A. THIS IS A PAPER THAT WAS WRITTEN BY SONG QIAN AND DR. RECKHOW FROM THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT ON MODELING PHOSPHORUS TRAPPING IN THE WETLANDS USING GENERALIZED ADDITIVE MODELS, STATISTICAL APPROACHES TO DETERMINING THIS. Q. ON PAGE 13 OF THAT DOCUMENT, WHICH IS BATES 971, THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF THE TEXT REFERS TO A "STATISTICAL MODEL PRESENTED IN EQUATION 4 AND IN FIGURES 6 AND 8 WHICH WOULD BE USEFUL FOR PREDICTIVE ANALYSIS OF WETLANDS." I COULDN'T FIND THE FIGURES THAT I -- THEY SEEM TO BE TALKING ABOUT. COULD YOU THUMB THROUGH THIS AND SEE IF THEY'RE THERE AND I JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR? THERE ARE A NUMBER OF FIGURES THAT MAY NOT BE LABELED AND THAT MAY BE THE ONLY PROBLEM. A. WELL, LET'S SEE THE WAY THE -- THERE'S A LIST OF -- IS THERE NOT A LIST OF FIGURES AND TABLES IN HERE? OH, YEAH, THERE'S A LIST OF FIGURES. ONE, INPUT DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1882 UNDER -- IT APPEARS THAT SOME OF THESE FIGURES ARE MISSING. Q. OKAY. A. AND I COULDN'T TELL YOU WHY. THIS IS A DRAFT OF THIS PAPER. BUT FOR EXAMPLE, THE FIRST FIGURE, INPUT/OUTPUT LOADING IN SELECTED NORTH AMERICAN ONES, THE FIRST FIGURE I SEE IS ACTUALLY A DRAWING OF THE ACTUAL WCA-2A IN LAKE OKEECHOBEE, SO THAT FIGURE IS MISSING. THAT'S ACTUALLY FIGURE 2. FIGURE 3, OUTPUT PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION VERSUS WATER LEVEL. I THINK THAT'S -- UNFORTUNATELY -- I ALWAYS LABEL MY FIGURES. IT DON'T APPEAR THAT ANY OF THESE FIGURES ARE LABELED. Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU SEEN THE FINAL VERSION OF THIS DOCUMENT, OR IS THERE ONE? A. THIS PAPER -- AS A MATTER OF FACT, I JUST SAW DR. RECKHOW BRIEFLY, I THINK IT WAS TWO DAYS AGO. THIS PAPER IS ACCEPTED IN WATER RESOURCES RESEARCH, AND, IN FACT, HE WAS TELLING ME THE EDITOR'S COMMENTS WERE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE THE NEW VOLLENWEIDER MODEL; THIS IS GOING TO BE THE STANDARD FOR HOW TO LOOK AT HOW WETLANDS CAN BE LOOKED AT. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1883 BY THE COURT REPORTER.) Q. DO YOU KNOW IF IT'S BEEN TURNED OVER IN -- HIS PAPERS HAS? A. I WOULD BELIEVE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN. Q. ALL RIGHT. A COUPLE OF PARAGRAPHS ABOVE THAT ON PAGE 13. A. I'M SORRY, I LOST MY--- Q. PAGE 13 OF THE TEXT. A. THE REAL 13. Q. YES, YES, RIGHT. A. OKAY. IT'S THE LAST PAGE WE'RE TAKING ABOUT? Q. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. A. OKAY. Q. THERE'S A PARTIAL PARAGRAPH AT THE TOP WHICH INCLUDES THE NUMBERS 9.65 AND 9.68. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT -- FROM THAT TEXT WHAT THOSE NUMBERS REPRESENT? A. CAN YOU GIVE ME JUST A MOMENT TO LOOK AT THAT SECTION. Q. SURE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THOSE ARE THE RESIDUAL SUMS OF SQUARES, THEY'RE PART OF THE MODEL STATISTIC. THESE BASICALLY -- I'M NOT TOTALLY CONVERSANT WITH ALL OF THE TESTS THERE, BUT ESSENTIALLY, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THESE ARE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1884 ESSENTIALLY TO SHOW THAT -- GIVE SOME STATISTICAL ESTIMATE OF THE VARIATION IN THE MODEL. THOSE ARE SORT OF STATISTICAL BOUNDARIES IN A SENSE. Q. DO THEY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH SETTLING RATES? A. NO. THESE WOULD BE -- THESE ARE NOT SETTLING RATES IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. Q. DOES THE MODEL PRODUCE SETTLING RATES? A. DOES THE MODEL PRODUCE SETTLING RATES? Q. YES. A. ONE COULD TAKE THIS LOADING MODEL AND DEVELOP FROM IT SETTLING RATES -- A SETTLING RATE. AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE OTHER DAY AND SEVERAL DAYS, THE SETTLING RATE IS A SINGLE ONE LUMP PARAMETER THAT IS USED BY ENGINEERS. THIS IS AN ALTERNATE APPROACH TO LOOKING AT -- GOING THROUGH THE DATABASE TO DETERMINE THE EFFLUENT -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, DETERMINE THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN WHAT DATAS EXIST IN THE NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE IN TERMS OF LOADS IN AND LOADS OUT, AND THEN DETERMINE THE BEST STATISTICAL MODEL FOR PREDICTIVE PURPOSES, WHICH TURNS OUT TO BE EQUATIONS FOUR AND THEN, I THINK, TEN IS A SIMPLIFICATION OF THAT, WHICH BASICALLY SUGGESTS THAT IF YOU KNOW LOAD IN, YOU CAN PREDICT THE CONCENTRATION OF THE PHOSPHORUS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1885 EFFLUENT OUT OF THE WETLAND. AND SO IT IS A STANDARDIZED ENGINEERING MODEL THAT ALLOWS YOU TO PREDICT EFFLUENT CONCENTRATIONS WITH SOME PROBABILITY. FROM THAT ONE COULD BACK CALCULATE SETTLING RATE. I BELIEVE, IN FACT, THIS PAPER'S JUST -- I BELIEVE THERE ARE SEVERAL -- I HAVE NOT DONE SO, BUT SEVERAL PEOPLE -- DR. MARIN AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT DOING THAT AND WILL PROBABLY TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, BUT WE HAVE NOT DONE THAT. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER DR. RECKHOW DID IT AS PART OF THIS PROJECT, OR IS THAT ANOTHER -- A SUBSEQUENT STEP? A. I ACTUALLY HAD A DISCUSSION WITH HIM ABOUT THAT, AND HE SAID THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING HE WOULD LOOK AT, MAYBE, DOWN THE ROAD. HE -- I THINK HE FINISHES UP THE PAPER WITH SAYING THERE ARE SEVERAL ALTERNATE THINGS HE MIGHT DO. THIS COULD BE DONE. THIS MODEL STANDS ALONE. THIS MODEL DOES NOT REALLY REQUIRE YOU TO CALCULATE A SETTLING RATE. IT GIVES YOU AN ALTERNATE APPROACH FOR DESIGN CRITERIA. THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF THIS PAPER. Q. SO, IT GIVES YOU A WAY OF CALCULATING THE OUTPUT WITHOUT BOTHERING WITH THE SETTLING RATE INTERIM DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1886 STEP, IS THAT--- A. RIGHT. THERE ARE -- THERE ARE OTHER WAYS FOR DESIGN CRITERIA. WE BASICALLY WERE TRYING TO LOOK AT SEVERAL WAYS. WE HAVE THE FIELD DATA, WHICH I HAD GONE THROUGH, THAT'S GIVING YOU ONE ESTIMATE; WHAT'S ACTUALLY BURIED PHYSICALLY IN THE GROUND, SHOWS YOU WHAT'S THERE, SO THAT YOU ACTUALLY -- SORT OF A TANGIBLE TOUCH ME TYPE THING. AND THAT -- THAT IS WHAT I COLLECTED, AND THAT GIVES ME MY FIRST APPROXIMATION OF WHAT'S THERE. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DECIDED TO LOOK AT SETTLING RATES. THAT'S ONE OTHER WAY TO TRY TO GET AN ESTIMATE OF IT; IT'S NOT THE END ALL. THIS IS ANOTHER WAY. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF APPROACHES TO TRY TO DO THIS. THIS IS AN ALTERNATE WAY TO TRY TO COME UP WITH AN ESTIMATE, AND IT'S A TRIED AND TRUE WAY, IT'S BEEN USED FOR A LONG TIME. AND, SO, I THINK THESE ARE ALL APPROACHES TO TRY AND GET AT SOME PREDICTION OF WHAT THE STORAGE CAPACITY WOULD BE. OR, IN THIS CASE, THIS MODEL PREDICTS MOST ACCURATELY WHAT THE EFFLUENT CONCENTRATION WOULD BE OUT, UNDER CERTAIN LOAD CONDITIONS IN. Q. UH-HUH (YES). CAN YOU PLAY WITH IT SO THAT IF YOU ASSUME A LOAD CONDITION IN, AND YOU ASSUME A GOAL DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1887 COMING OUT, YOU CAN DECIDE HOW TO DESIGN YOUR SYSTEM? A. YOU COULD DO SOME OF THIS, YES. Q. DID HE DO THAT TO DETERMINE, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW LARGE AN STA SHOULD BE? A. DID HE? Q. DR. RECKHOW AND HIS ASSOCIATE. A. I DON'T KNOW IF DR. RECKHOW EVER REALLY -- NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE DID HE EVER DO THAT. IN OTHER WORDS, DID HE ACTUALLY TRY TO DESIGN STA SIZES BASED ON THIS? Q. YES. A. AS TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I DON'T BELIEVE HE DID. Q. HAS ANYONE ELSE DONE THAT, DO YOU KNOW? A. I DON'T -- YOU MEAN IN TERMS OF COMING UP WITH AN ACREAGE--- Q. YES, SIR. A. ---FIGURE? Q. YES, SIR. A. I DON'T THINK THEY'VE TAKEN THAT LAST -- TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S TAKEN THAT QUITE LAST STEP. I THINK PEOPLE HAVE DONE SOME OTHER THINGS WITH THIS, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'VE ACTUALLY DONE THAT. THAT WILL PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE EASY TO DO. THAT WILL PROBABLY BE DONE. Q. COULD ANOTHER ENGINEER DO IT BY TAKING THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1888 PAPER? IS THERE ENOUGH IN THE PAPER TO KNOW HOW TO USE THE FORMULA, THE MODEL? A. IT'S VERY CLEARLY WRITTEN. I THINK IT COULD BE ANALYZED BY ALMOST -- ANYBODY WHO IS KNOWLEDGEABLE TO THE APPROACH COULD DO THIS. Q. THE LAST FEW PAGES OF THIS EXHIBIT FOR SOME REASON SEEM TO BE A SEPARATE DOCUMENT, APPARENTLY OF YOURS. IT STARTS WITH 1323986, BUT THEY WERE TOGETHER IN THE FILE. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT DOCUMENT? A. THIS IS AN EARLIER VERSION OF WHAT WE LOOKED AT EARLIER. THIS WAS A JULY DRAFT. IN FACT, I THINK THE OCTOBER ONE IS ACTUALLY A CONDENSATION OF THIS. Q. YES, IT DID -- IT SEEMED TO BE SHORTER. WOULD YOU LOOK AT THE LAST PAGE OF THE TEXT OF THAT, 1323988. AND--- A. CORRECT. Q. ---THE NEXT TO THE LAST SENTENCE, IF YOU COULD READ THAT TO YOURSELF, PLEASE, AND THEN TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS. I JUST WANT TO BE SURE I UNDERSTAND THAT. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. OKAY. DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY -- GIVE YOU -- IS THIS THE SENTENCE STARTING "WHILE"? Q. YES, SIR. IF THERE'S ANY WAY TO SAY THAT IN MORE LAYMAN-LIKE LANGUAGE. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1889 A. WELL, I THINK FROM THE PREVIOUS INFORMATION THAT WAS GIVEN IN THIS DRAFT THAT, BASICALLY, THAT THIS DATA SUGGESTS THAT THIS APPROACH WOULD INDICATE THAT IF THE -- THIS IS A LOAD MODEL, THAT WHEN THE -- WHEN LOAD IS PUSHED -- OR INCREASED ABOVE A CERTAIN RATIO, OR IN THIS CASE, MUCH ABOVE ONE OR AROUND ONE, THAT THE -- WHAT I'M CALLING THE LOADING AREA RATIO, THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS ADDED PER UNIT AREA PER YEAR -- THAT, IN FACT, THE EFFLUENT CONCENTRATION GOES UP AND THE VARIABILITY AROUND THAT GOES UP. SO, FROM THIS FIRST ANALYSIS IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE OUTPUT CONCENTRATION, IF THE DESIGN CRITERIA WERE FIFTY PARTS PER BILLION, WOULD NOT BE MET. Q. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S CLEAR. THAT SUGGESTS THAT AN STA LOSES SOME EFFICIENCY AFTER YOU EXCEED A PARTICULAR LOAD? A. RIGHT. THIS IS A CROSS -- THIS DATA IS A CROSS-SECTIONAL DATA OF A NUMBER OF SYSTEMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND SO WHAT THIS DATA TELLS YOU, IT GIVES YOU SOME SUGGESTIONS THAT IF THE SYSTEM LOADS GO UP, IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED FOR ONE CRITERIA -- THIS COULD BE USED AS DESIGN CRITERIA, IF THE LOADS WERE KEPT, LET'S SAY AT A HALF A GRAM PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR INTO THE SYSTEM, THEN THIS MODEL WOULD SUGGEST DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1890 TO YOU THAT IT WOULD HAVE A CERTAIN OUTFLOW CONCENTRATION. BUT AS ONE MOVED CLOSER AND CLOSER TO ONE AND BEYOND THAT, THE EFFLUENT CONCENTRATIONS WOULD GO UP. AND THAT'S WHAT TELLS YOU FROM THE DATABASE THAT EXISTS IN THE UNITED STATES, ALBEIT THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF WETLANDS AND SO FORTH, IT JUST GIVES -- IT SUGGESTS THAT, IN FACT, BECAUSE THESE SYSTEMS HAVE SOME INHERENT BIOLOGIC -- THEY ALL WORK ON THE BASIS OR DON'T WORK ON THE BASIS OF PHYSICS, CHEMISTRY AND BIOLOGY AND ECOLOGY -- THAT THERE IS SOME INHERENT THRESHOLD THAT THESE WETLANDS SYSTEMS APPARENTLY FALL WITHIN. SO, AS A RESULT OF THAT, THIS VERY CLEARLY SUGGESTS THAT ONE GRAM PER METER SQUARED NUMBER, LET'S SAY THEY WERE EVEN DESIGNED AT THAT, IF, IN FACT, YOU HAD EXCESSIVE WATER, EXCESSIVE RAIN OR WHATEVER AND THE LOAD GOES UP, THEN, IN FACT -- AND YOU HAVE A LIMITED SIZE SYSTEM, YOU'VE ALREADY SIZED IT, THAT, IN FACT, THE CONCENTRATION WOULD INCREASE. Q. THE OUTPUT CONCENTRATION? A. THE OUTPUT CONCENTRATION WOULD INCREASE. AND, AS I SAY, THIS IS AN ACCEPTABLE METHOD. DR. KADLEC EVEN RECOGNIZES THIS AS AN ALTERNATIVE MODEL FOR DESIGN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1891 CRITERIA. Q. NOW, WHEN YOU SAID "THIS APPROACH" AND "THIS MODEL," ARE YOU DISCUSSING THE SAME ONE THAT DR. RECKHOW WAS DISCUSSING? A. RIGHT. Q. ALL RIGHT. COULD WE TURN TO NUMBER NINETEEN, WHICH IS 1323994. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THE LETTER, BUT DO--- A. OKAY. Q. ---DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE TABLES THAT ARE ATTACHED, STARTING WITH 996? A. 996? Q. YES, SIR. A. THEY'RE NOT MY DATA, AND I DON'T RECALL WHO COLLECTED THESE. THEY MAY BE SOME OF THE FEDERAL DATA, BUT THEY'RE NOT MY DATA. Q. WELL, DID YOU USE ANY OF THESE FOR YOUR OPINIONS AND ANALYSIS? A. DID I USE THEM? Q. YES, SIR. A. I WILL BE USING THEM. I HAVE NOT COMPILED ALL THE DATA FOR THE LOXAHATCHEE YET IN TERMS OF THIS, BUT I'LL BE LOOKING AT THIS ALONG WITH DR. PATRICK'S AND MY DATA. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1892 Q. NUMBER TWENTY, PLEASE, 1324191. A. OKAY. Q. HAVE YOU ANALYZED THAT DATA OR USED IT FORMING YOUR OPINIONS? A. I HAVE LOOKED AT IT IN A BRIEF WAY; I HAVE NOT PULLED THE INFORMATION TOGETHER ON THIS, BUT I WILL BE -- I WILL BE UTILIZING THAT IN CONJUNCTION WITH SOME OF THE NUTRIENT DATA. Q. OKAY. THREE DOCUMENTS FROM THE SET THAT--- A. CAN I SET THIS ONE ASIDE? Q. YES. YES. THANKS. ---THAT MR. BURGESS GAVE US WHEN WE CAME IN THIS WEEK, AND I WANT TO ATTACH THESE, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY WAY OF IDENTIFYING THEM AT THE MOMENT, SO I WILL JUST GIVE YOU A PACKAGE OF PAPER--- (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 21 - CURTIS J. RICHARDSON DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REED) DO YOU RECOGNIZE EXHIBIT 21, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1893 DOCTOR? A. JUST GIVE ME A MOMENT. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. YES, IT APPEARS TO BE -- AT LEAST THE FIRST PART APPEARS TO BE ENTRY AND ACCESS DATA FOR LOXAHATCHEE. Q. OKAY. A. AND SOME MAPS. Q. WOULD YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST GRAPH, THERE -- NOT THIS, BUT THIS BAR GRAPH. LR0S[sic] (REP 1). CAN YOU TELL WHAT THAT SHOWS? A. LR03, YOU MEAN? Q. YES, RIGHT. A. THIS IS A CESIUM 137 ANALYSIS FOR A CORE IN THE LOXAHATCHEE TO TRY TO GET AN ESTIMATE OF THE PEAT ACCRETION RATE, AND BELOW THAT IS ANOTHER SAMPLE FROM THE REGION, LR03, THAT WAS ALSO ANALYZED FOR CESIUM 137. Q. IS LR03 A SINGLE SITE OR NOT? A. IT IS A SINGLE SITE. HOWEVER, YOU CAN GO BACK AND LOOK -- I THINK, BUT GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE MAP BACK HERE. IT'S TWO -- IT WOULD BE TWO CORES TAKEN AT ONE LOCATION, YES. Q. IS THAT WHAT THE REP 1 AND 2 REFLECT? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1894 A. REP 1, RIGHT. WE TOOK TWO -- I THINK -- IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, THIS WAS A CHECK ON THE CESIUM ANALYSIS AT TWO -- AT THE SAME SPOT. Q. OKAY. AND THE "Y" AXIS CLEARLY INDICATES DEPTH. WHAT DOES THE "X" AXIS REPRESENT? A. IT'S PICOCURRIES PER GRAM OF CESIUM EMISSIONS. THOSE ARE GAMMA EMISSIONS. THIS IS THE RADIOACTIVE CESIUM LINE THAT I TOLD YOU ABOUT BEFORE. THIS ONE'S PLOTTED SUCH THAT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS THE PEAK, STARTING FROM THE SURFACE DOWN, AND YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THE DIMINUTION OF THE CESIUM, BUT YOU'RE ALSO LOOKING FOR THE PEAK TO GIVE YOU AN INDICATION OF THE 1964 LINE. Q. UH-HUH (YES). AND WHAT DOES IT TELL US ABOUT THAT? A. IT TELLS US AT THIS PARTICULAR SITE THE PEAKS ARE VERY CLOSE TO THE SURFACE. THEY -- PROBABLY WITHIN THE TOP SEVERAL CENTIMETERS OF THE SURFACE. THERE'S BEEN VERY LITTLE PEAT ACCRETION AT THIS SITE. Q. ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU TURN TO THE NEXT ONE, PLEASE. NO, THAT'S MORE OF THE SAME, I TAKE IT, ISN'T IT? IS THAT ONE THAT SHOWS SLIGHTLY MORE ACCRETION? A. SLIGHTLY MORE ACCRETION. Q. LR08 (REP 1). DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1895 A. THE -- RIGHT. DO YOU WANT ME TO KEEP--- Q. WE DON'T NEED TO DISCUSS THEM ALL, BUT LET'S TURN ON TO ONE TITLED TP CONCENTRATIONS IN SURFACE WATER. IT'S THE NEXT -- I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND. THAT'S IT. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS, PLEASE? A. THIS IS NOT MY GRAPHIC, THIS WAS -- THIS CAME -- I BELIEVE THE WHOLE PACKAGE FROM -- OR AT LEAST SOME OF THIS WAS COMBINED. THIS -- THESE ARE SOME OF THE DATA THAT WAS SUMMARIZED FROM -- THIS IS FROM ES&P, I BELIEVE. IT'S A COMPANY. AND BASICALLY IS A COMPUTER GENERATED KRIGING, I BELIEVE, OF THE SURFACE -- TOTAL PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION IN SURFACE WATER IN THE LOXAHATCHEE. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BASED ON -- NOT MY DATA, I DIDN'T COLLECT THIS DATA, BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BASED ON JOHN DAVIS' -- HE'S DONE AN EXTENSIVE SERIES, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, IN THE LOXAHATCHEE, AND THIS WOULD BE AN ANALYSIS OF THAT DATA. IT'S A COMPUTER GENERATED MAP. Q. I SEE. OKAY. THE NEXT ONE'S FASCINATING. I HAVEN'T A CLUE WHAT IT IS. IS THAT -- ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT SORT OF THING? ENTITLED TP CONCENTRATION IN SURFACE WATER, AGAIN FOR THE SAME TIME PERIOD, BUT AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GRAPHIC DISPLAY. A. WELL, IT'S A 3-D GENERATED MODEL, BUT I -- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1896 WE'D PROBABLY HAVE TO ASK JOHN DAVIS WHAT THE INTERPRETATION OF HOW WE -- I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE ORIENTATION ON THAT ONE. Q. CAN WE LOOK AT THAT WITH THE PRIOR ONE, AND THERE MAY BE NO WAY TO TELL, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING INTERESTING. DOES THE HIGH PEAK -- DOES THE HIGH PEAK ON THE SECOND PAGE REPRESENT WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE CONCENTRATION AT THE NORTHERN END OF LOXAHATCHEE IN THE FIRST? COULD IT SHOW THAT SORT OF THING? A. LET'S SEE. YEAH, I THINK WE'VE GOT THE ORIENTATION. THAT MAY BE. THERE'S NO SCALES ON THIS, SO IT'S HARD TO TELL WHAT THEY ARE, BUT THAT COULD BE A 3-D GENERATION OF THAT. Q. UH-HUH (YES). AND ON THE FIRST MAP THERE APPEARS TO BE A CONCENTRATION IN THE SOUTHWEST CORNER, COULD THAT BE WHAT'S BEING REFLECTED IN THE SOUTHWEST SIDE OF THE OTHER ONE ALSO? A. CORRECT. I'M NOT SURE; I THINK I REMEMBER SOME DISCUSSIONS HERE. I DON'T KNOW -- I'M NOT SURE HOW ACCURATE THESE ARE AT THIS END SINCE, I BELIEVE, WHEN WE WERE SAMPLING THERE WERE FEWER AND FEWER SAMPLES IN THIS REGION, BUT -- SO THE COMPUTER IS FORCED TO GENERATE SOME OF THIS, BUT DR. DAVIS COULD EXPLAIN THAT BETTER THAN I, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT--- DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1897 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE "Y" AXIS ON THE SECOND CHART SHOWS? A. IT'S NOT LABELED, SO I'D BE GUESSING, BUT I ASSUME IT'S SOME KIND OF TOTAL PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION. Q. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. A. IS THAT IT WITH THIS? Q. THAT'S IT FOR THAT ONE. MR. REED: OFF THE RECORD. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 22 - CURTIS J. RICHARDSON DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REED) DOCTOR, LOOKING AT THE FIRST PAGE OF RICHARDSON EXHIBIT TWENTY-TWO, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THAT GRAPHIC SHOWS? A. JUST THIS GRAPHIC? Q. YES, SIR. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. IT APPEARS TO BE THE -- A TIME SEQUENCE OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1898 SAMPLES AT THE LR01 STATION SHOWING TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IN THE WATER COLUMN, I GUESS THIS NOTE UP HERE, WITH DATA FROM DIFFERENT GROUPS. IT SAYS THE FED DATA, SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT DATA. THAT'S ALL I CAN TELL YOU. Q. OKAY. ONE MORE EXHIBIT. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 23 - CURTIS J. RICHARDSON DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) MR. REID: CAN I SEE TWENTY-TWO? WITNESS: BOY, WE GENERATE A LOT OF PAPER, DON'T WE? MR. REED: WE SURE DO. WITNESS: KEEPS THE FOREST INDUSTRY GOING. MR. REED: YEAH. Q. (BY MR. REED) DOCTOR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE RICHARDSON TWENTY-THREE? A. IT'S AN ABSTRACT THAT WAS WRITTEN FOR A SYMPOSIUM. Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN OR APPROXIMATELY? A. THIS WAS SEVERAL YEARS AGO, '92 PROBABLY. Q. I THINK THE FIRST PARAGRAPH REFERS TO A DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1899 CONCEPTUAL MODEL SHOWING RATES OF ACCUMULATION AND EFFICIENCY OF REMOVAL. DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT MODEL IS? A. LET'S SEE. LET ME TAKE A MINUTE TO SEE WHICH. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THAT MODEL, THIS -- THERE WAS A SUBSEQUENT PAPER THAT WAS PUBLISHED FROM THIS, AND THAT MODEL AND INFORMATION WOULD BE IN THAT PAPER. Q. DO YOU KNOW HOW I WOULD IDENTIFY IT -- WELL, FIRST, HAS IT BEEN TURNED OVER, DO YOU KNOW? A. YES, IT HAS. Q. WOULD IT HAVE THE SAME AUTHORS? A. NO, IT WOULD NOT. Q. HOW WOULD I IDENTIFY IT? A. IT WOULD BE IDENTIFIED AS RICHARDSON AND CRAFT. Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. THE TITLE WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME, "EFFICIENT PHOSPHORUS RETENTION IN WETLANDS: FACT OR FICTION?" Q. APPROXIMATELY WHEN WOULD IT HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED? A. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED IN 1993, I BELIEVE, IN A CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS BOOK, EDITED BY DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1900 MORSHARI, PUBLISHED BY LEWIS PRESS, I BELIEVE. Q. WOULD WE HAVE GOTTEN THE WHOLE BOOK, OR JUST THIS PAPER -- AM I LOOKING FOR A BOOK OR--- A. NO, YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE CHAPTER OF THIS. MR. REID: HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT EDITOR'S NAME? WITNESS: M-O-R-A -- LET ME SEE. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING LIKE M-O-R -- MO -- M-O-R-S-H-A-R-I, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I'M CLOSE, BUT I'M SURE IT'S NOT QUITE RIGHT. Q. SO, THAT PUBLICATION WOULD CONTAIN THE ENTIRE MODEL, AND--- A. IT WOULD SHOW THE -- IT WOULD HAVE THE CONCEPTUAL MODEL SHOWING THE CYCLING STORAGE AND SO FORTH, ALONG WITH SOME STORAGE ACCUMULATION RATES AND SO FORTH. THERE ARE SOME SLIDES AND OTHER INFORMATION THAT WERE PRESENTED AT THAT CONFERENCE THAT WERE PROBABLY NOT IN THAT PAPER. I KNOW THEY -- WELL, I KNOW THEY ARE, A NUMBER OF THOSE. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THEY'VE BEEN TURNED OVER? A. THE ACTUAL SLIDES, I THINK A PORTION OF THOSE -- ALL THE COLOR SLIDES WERE TURNED OVER, AND THE GRAPHIC SLIDES, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I THINK YOU GOT MOST OF THOSE LAST TIME. IF YOU DIDN'T GET THE SLIDES, THEN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1901 YOU HAVE IN OTHER DOCUMENTS THE GRAPHICS THAT WERE PRESENTED. SO, YOU HAVE THEM. Q. HOW WOULD I RECOGNIZE -- YOU TALKED ABOUT A PAPER, BUT NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A PRESENTATION, APPARENTLY. A. CORRECT. Q. HOW WOULD I RECOGNIZE THE GRAPHICS FROM THE PRESENTATION? A. THEY WOULD NOT BE IDENTIFIED. WHEN I MAKE A TALK AND PUT THAT INFORMATION TOGETHER, I BASICALLY GO TO MY POOL OF SLIDES, WHICH I THINK I MENTIONED THE OTHER DAY, ARE SEVERAL THOUSAND. SO, IN ANY PARTICULAR TALK THAT I WOULD GIVE, I WOULD SPEND, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE HOURS PULLING OUT REPRESENTATIVE SLIDES, PULLING THOSE TOGETHER, AND THEN WHEN I FINISH, I PUT THEM BACK IN THE MAIN BASE. SO, I -- IF I -- I GIVE MANY, MANY, MANY TALKS AND SO I WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO KNOW WHICH SLIDES I USED. Q. OKAY. THAT'S IT FOR EXHIBITS. I -- IN READING THE TRANSCRIPT OF YOUR LAST DEPOSITION, WHICH I DIDN'T ATTEND, I HAD A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS OF THINGS THAT YOU THEN SAID MIGHT BE COMPLETED LATER WHICH I'D LIKE TO FOLLOW-UP ON, IF I MAY. BEFORE WE TURN TO THAT. YOU PROVIDED US WITH A DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1902 NUMBER OF DISKS. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT, VERY GENERALLY, IS ON THOSE? A. IF I LOOKED AT THEM I CAN GIVE YOU -- TRY TO GIVE YOU SOME IDEA. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DISKETTES.) A. WELL, THE FIRST -- I MEAN, THE DISKS ARE NOT NUMBERED, BUT THEY HAVE TITLES ON THEM, AND ONE DISK SAYS, "WCA-2A BACKUP MAC," WHICH TELLS YOU IT'S A MACKINTOSH DISK, "CORES FOR THE S10E." SO, THAT'S WHAT -- THAT'S CORE INFORMATION FROM S10E. Q. IS IT JUST DATA? A. IT'S JUST DATA. Q. OKAY. NO NARRATIVE IN THERE OR GRAPHS? A. NO -- I CAN'T TELL YOU. THERE MAY BE SOME GRAPHS IN THERE, THERE MAY BE JUST DATA; I CANNOT TELL YOU ON EACH ONE. THERE -- I THINK THERE ARE SOME GRAPHS ON SOME OF THIS. Q. OKAY. A. THE SECOND ONE IS A LOXAHATCHEE BACKUP MAC, AND IT'S SOIL CORES. THIS IS THE SOIL CORE DATA ON COMPUTER FILE THAT WAS -- WE JUST LOOKED AT SOME OF THAT DATA IN THE LAST FEW DAYS IN SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS, BUT THIS IS THE -- THIS IS THE COMPUTER DATA -- THE DATA THAT'S ON THE COMPUTER FILE FOR THAT -- FOR DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1903 THE LOXAHATCHEE ACCESS AND ENTRY. Q. OKAY. WE DON'T -- UNLESS YOU WANT TO, WE DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH THEM ONE BY ONE. I'M MOSTLY INTERESTED IN WHETHER IT'S JUST NUMBERS OR WHETHER THERE ARE THINGS IN THERE THAT I MIGHT UNDERSTAND. A. THESE DATA -- THESE DISKS ARE ALL UNLABELED, SO I -- WE -- I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT IS, BECAUSE, I MEAN, I HAD MY PEOPLE IN THE LAB -- LET'S SEE, ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT. THE LAB -- I HAD THE LAB PRODUCE -- TURN OVER IN ONE OF THE BOXES YOU GOT, THE LABORATORY ANALYSIS DATA. I THINK IT WAS A BIG BOX OF THAT, AND I TOLD THEM TO ALSO GENERATE AND TURN OVER THE DATA FILES FOR THAT INFORMATION. THERE MAY BE SOME GRAPHS ON THERE FOR -- THEY DO CALIBRATIONS AND THEY DO THINGS ON THERE, I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THESE DISKS, BUT THEY TOLD ME THEY COMPILED AND TURNED OVER DATA FROM FERTILIZING, SOME DOSING, HYDROLOGY DISTURBANCE, A GRADIENT STUDY, DATA THAT WOULD BE POST THE LAST DEPOSITION SO THAT YOU WOULD HAVE HAD -- I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY DISKS YOU GOT LAST TIME, BUT YOU GOT A HUGE NUMBER OF THE DISKS THE PREVIOUS TIME. SO, THIS IS THE OTHER DATA BEYOND THAT. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. A. AND I BELIEVE IT'S LABELED BY FILES ONCE YOU DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1904 GET INSIDE THAT. Q. HERE'S A QUESTION THAT WAS LEFT FOR ME, AND LET'S SEE IF I CAN GET IT RIGHT. I THINK THAT SOME TIME IN THE LAST FEW DAYS YOU HAVE REFERRED TO A .6 AREA LOAD RATE NEAR THE S10'S. HAS THAT -- IF YOU CAN RECALL THAT, OR KNOW ABOUT IT, HAS THAT BEEN CALCULATED, AND HAVE THOSE CALCULATIONS BEEN TURNED OVER? A. THAT NUMBER I REFERRED TO WAS ONE THAT I DID, AND I DON'T -- BASICALLY IT'S THE BACK OF AN ENVELOPE CALCULATION. I DON'T -- THERE'S NOTHING SUPER-ELABORATE ABOUT THIS, SO I CAN'T SAY IT'S BEEN TURNED OVER. IT MAY BE IN ONE OF MY DOCUMENTS IN TERMS OF A NOTE. AND IT MAY BE IN ONE OF MY ANNUAL REPORTS AS TERMS OF -- I CAN'T -- I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER, BUT IT IS AN -- IT'S AN ESTIMATE WE HAVE USED. WE CALCULATED THIS A LONG TIME AGO TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE APPROXIMATE LOAD PER UNIT AREA WAS FOR THAT REGION. SO--- Q. ALL RIGHT. MR. REID: THAT'S GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR? WITNESS: CORRECT. Q. (BY MR. REID) AND IF YOU WERE DOING IT ON THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1905 BACK OF AN ENVELOPE, WHAT DATA WERE YOU USING TO GET THERE? A. YOU WOULD BE USING THE LOADS INTO -- THROUGH THE HILLSBORO STRUCTURE, AND YOU WOULD BE USING THE AFFECTED AREA, ENRICHMENT AREA, AND YOU WOULD -- YOU'D HAVE TO MAKE SOME ASSUMPTIONS, BUT IT'S BASICALLY -- IT'S AN AVERAGE ESTIMATED LOAD PER UNIT AREA. Q. GETTING AN AVERAGE ESTIMATED LOAD PER UNIT AREA? A. UH-HUH (YES). THE DISTRICT HAS ALSO DONE THIS FOR -- IN SOME OF THEIR DOCUMENTS YOU'LL SEE AN AVERAGE ESTIMATED LOAD FOR THE WHOLE WCA'S FOR EXAMPLE. Q. THE LAST TIME, I BELIEVE, YOU TESTIFIED THAT AT SOME POINT IN THIS PROCESS YOU WOULD BE CALCULATING APPROPRIATE INTERIM STANDARDS OF PHOSPHORUS. HAS THAT BEEN DONE? MR. BURGESS: IS THERE A PAGE? MR. REID: YES. 336 TO 340. MR. BURGESS: WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO -- I THINK I HAVE HIS OTHER TRANSCRIPT OUT IN MY CAR, CAN I--- MR. REID: SURE, IF YOU'D LIKE TO. MR. BURGESS: ---GIVE HIM A CONTEXT--- MR. REID: UH-HUH (YES). DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1906 MR. BURGESS: ---OF WHAT HE SAID? MR. REID: ALL RIGHT. MR. BURGESS: WE'LL TAKE A SHORT BREAK. (THEREUPON, A BREAK WAS TAKEN FROM 9:33 A.M. TO 9:45 A.M.) Q. (BY MR. REID) THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER YOU HAVE CALCULATED APPROPRIATE INTERIM PHOSPHORUS STANDARDS. MR. BURGESS: AND WHAT PAGE WAS THAT AGAIN? MR. REID: I THINK 336 TO 340. A. LET ME TAKE A MOMENT TO LOOK AT THIS. WHERE -- RIGHT HERE, 336, OKAY. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. OKAY. I'VE LOOKED AT THAT. SO, YOUR QUESTION? Q. IS WHETHER YOU HAVE CALCULATED INTERIM STANDARDS OF PHOSPHORUS THAT YOU THINK ARE APPROPRIATE. A. FOR ANY PARTICULAR REGION OR FOR--- Q. FOR THE EPA GENERALLY, OR IF YOU'VE DONE IT FOR SMALLER AREAS, I'D BE INTERESTED IN THAT. A. WELL, AT THAT TIME WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE DOSING STUDY AS BEING THE BASIS BY WHICH WE WOULD TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME ESTIMATE OF THIS, AND I THINK I DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1907 SAID AT THAT TIME IT WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY A YEAR BEFORE WE WOULD HAVE SOME INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE UTILIZED. AND I THINK THE FIRST DAY WE WENT THROUGH SOME OF THE DOSING INFORMATION, AND I GAVE YOU SOME PRELIMINARY NUMBERS, AND SO WE CAN GO BACK THROUGH THAT AGAIN. I DON'T HAVE A FINAL NUMBER AS TO WHAT THE STANDARD SHOULD BE. IT DOES APPEAR FROM THE FIRST YEAR'S ANALYSIS THAT WE HAVE DONE, WHICH AS I SAID, WE'VE DONE A BIT, AND WE WILL HAVE, PROBABLY, IN THE NEXT MONTH PULLED TOGETHER A COMPONENT OF SOME OF THIS ANALYSIS. WE WILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT BETTER IDEA. ALBEIT, IT'S ONLY THAT FIRST PHASE OF IT. SO, I SAID THE ONE FIFTY CHANNELS HAD DRAMATICALLY CHANGED IN TERMS OF THE PERIPHYTON. AND WE WERE STARTING TO SEE SOME CHANGES IN THE SEVENTY-FIVE CHANNELS. SO, AT THIS POINT IT WOULD BE -- IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION, IT WOULD BE SOMEWHERE BELOW THE, YOU KNOW, SEVENTY-FIVE POINT. Q. DO YOU EXPECT TO HAVE SOMETHING -- SOME MORE ANALYSIS OF THAT QUESTION PRIOR TO THE TIME OF YOUR TESTIMONY? A. WELL, I'M SURE, AS I SAID, BY -- DEPENDING ON WHEN THE TESTIMONY IS. IF THIS HEARING, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON WHAT PERIOD OF THE HEARING. WE EXPECT TO DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1908 HAVE AN ANNUAL REPORT OUT EARLY THIS SUMMER, I WOULD THINK AT THE LATEST, AND WE WILL BE -- THIS IS -- AS SOON AS WE FINISH HERE, THE THING I'LL BE WORKING IS PUTTING TOGETHER THAT INFORMATION FOR THE ANNUAL REPORT. AND, SO, WE WILL HAVE SOME MORE INFORMATION. ALBEIT, WE WILL HAVE ONLY ONE GROWING SEASON AND ONE PART OF THIS, AND SOME OF THE COMPONENTS WON'T RESPOND. AND AS I TOLD YOU EARLIER, I DON'T BELIEVE, EVEN THOUGH LEGALLY THEY WANT TO MANDATE A NUMBER, I BELIEVE IT WILL BE A RANGE FOR THRESHOLDS THAT WILL -- THAT WILL BE APPROPRIATE, RATHER THAN A SINGLE NUMBER. I WON'T GET INTO THE MANAGERIAL OR LEGAL OR POLICY ASPECTS OF THAT, I REALIZE THEY MAY HAVE TO SET A NUMBER. BUT, I MEAN, ORGANISMS -- ALL ORGANISMS ARE NOT GOING TO RESPOND -- THEY DON'T RESPOND TO A SINGLE NUMBER. BUT WE WILL -- THERE WILL PROBABLY BE SOME SAFETY FACTOR, I'M SURE, PUT INTO THIS, TOO. Q. OKAY. MR. REID: DO WE HAVE A SYSTEM, RICK, FOR EXCHANGING POST DEPOSITION INFORMATION LIKE THAT? MR. BURGESS: I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S A SYSTEM, BUT I THINK THAT WITH RESPECT TO ANYTHING THAT A WITNESS SAYS HE'S CONTINUING DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1909 TO WORK ON OR HE MAY CONTINUE TO ANALYZE, THAT IF THAT FINALIZES AN OPINION OR CHANGES AN OPINION, THEN I THINK IT'S THE OBLIGATION OF THE PARTY OFFERING THAT WITNESS TO INFORM THE OTHER SIDE THAT THAT HAS HAPPENED, TO SUPPLY THOSE DOCUMENTS, AND TO MAKE THAT WITNESS AVAILABLE FOR A FOLLOW-UP DEPOSITION. MR. REID: THANK YOU. Q. (BY MR. REID) YOU ALSO DISCUSSED AT SOME LENGTH THE HYDROLOGY MODEL THAT WAS BEING WORKED ON BY, I THINK, YOU AND DR. RECKHOW BOTH. THAT DISCUSSION TOOK PLACE AT PAGES 419 TO 429. MY ONLY QUESTION IS WHETHER THAT MODEL HAS BEEN COMPLETED, OR IS THAT STILL PART OF THE PLAN? A. DR. RECKHOW IS NOT WORKING ON THE HYDROLOGY MODEL, PER SE, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, AND -- OTHER THAN HE'S CONTINUING TO WORK ON THE NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE AND UTILIZE THAT FOR UPGRADING AND REANALYZING, ALONG WITH MYSELF AND SONG, UPGRADING THE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE NEW DATA THAT EXISTS IN THE NEW NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE, TO LOOK AT THE LOAD MODEL. NOW, ALBEIT, IT HAS SOME HYDROLOGY IN THERE, I JUST WANTED TO JUST MENTION THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT A -- THAT'S NOT A LARGE HYDROLOGY MODEL, PER SE. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1910 IN TERMS OF THE HYDROLOGY MODEL, I HAVE COMPLETED MY PARTIAL HYDROLOGY ANALYSIS. IN OTHER WORDS, I HAVE ANALYZED THE RAINFALL DATA INPUTS BACK FROM DISTRICT AND USGS FILES PROVIDED. YOU KNOW, I HAVE SOME INFORMATION ON THAT. AND I CALCULATED THE FLOWS, AS I SAID BEFORE, THROUGH SOME OF THE MAJOR STRUCTURES FROM USGS RECORDS, AND PUT THAT TOGETHER IN, I BELIEVE, AT THAT TIME IN SLIDE FORMAT, SOME OF THAT INFORMATION. AND THEN I HAVE MET WITH PAUL LARSON, WHO HAS COMPLETED A HYDROLOGY BUDGET FOR THE LANDSCAPE, AND HE SENT ME THAT INFORMATION. HE HAD ACCESS TO OTHER INFORMATION THAT I DIDN'T HAVE. AND I ALSO HAVE SOME HYDROLOGY INFORMATION FROM I THINK IT WAS BRAD WALLER. MR. REID: WHO? WITNESS: WALLER. A. SO, THAT INFORMATION IS -- AND I HAVE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO SIT DOWN AND -- ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SOME GRAPHICS FROM THAT, PAUL LARSON PRODUCED GRAPHICS, AND I BELIEVE THERE IS SOME GRAPHIC INFORMATION FROM WALLER -- I HAVE NOT PUT TOGETHER THE FINAL PICTURE OF THAT. I HAVE ALL THE PIECES AND THERE ARE PARTIAL PIECES OF THAT. AND I PROBABLY WILL ALSO RELY ON SOME OF THAT IN THE DAVIS-OGDEN BOOK, WHICH HAS SOME VERY NICE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1911 GRAPHICAL INFORMATION, ALONG WITH A PAPER FROM -- THERE'S A NICE ECOLOGICAL APPLICATIONS PAPER THAT WAS PUT TOGETHER ON PROJECTING HYDROLOGIC FLOWS AND HISTORICAL ANALYSIS OF THAT -- OF THE EVERGLADES. Q. OKAY. IN YOUR OPINION, DO WE HAVE SHEET FLOW IN THE EVERGLADES NOW? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. DO WE HAVE SHEET FLOW? WE HAVE SOME FORMS OF SHEET FLOW AT CERTAIN PERIODS IN CERTAIN PLACES. IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT WAS THERE HISTORICALLY, FROM EVERYTHING I'VE READ. Q. WHAT FORMS DO WE HAVE AND WHERE? A. WHAT FORMS OF? Q. SHEET FLOW. A. WELL, AS I THINK I MENTIONED THE OTHER DAY, WE HAVE A SERIES OF STRUCTURES WHICH OPEN AND CLOSE, WHICH FUNNEL WATER THROUGH -- LARGE LINES OF WATER THROUGH SET AREAS, AND THEN WATER THEN MOVES FROM THAT -- IN A SENSE, A POINT SOURCE, AND THEN FLOWS OUTWARD FROM THERE, AND THEN SHEETS TO SOME DEGREE ACROSS THERE. WE DO HAVE SOME SHEET FLOW IN WCA-2A USING A SPREADER DITCH TO DO THAT. WE HAVE -- IN THE INTERIORS OF ALL OF THE AREAS WE WOULD HAVE -- AFTER RAINFALL PATTERNS WE WOULD HAVE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1912 SOME SHEET FLOW. SO, IT'S NOT SIMPLY JUST THE FACT THAT WE HAVE NO SHEET FLOW, IT'S -- IT'S THE ALTERED HYDROPERIOD, THE MODE OF DELIVERY, THE TIMING, THE STORAGE. Q. HOW COULD WE RESTORE ORIGINAL SHEET FLOW, IF THAT WERE OUR GOAL? A. WELL, I WOULD HOPE JUST HAVING SHEET FLOW WOULD NOT BE THE TOTAL GOAL. BUT -- HOW COULD WE RESTORE SHEET FLOW? Q. YES, SIR. A. WELL, AS I SAID, WE HAVE SOME SHEET FLOW. WE -- PROBABLY WE COULD INCREASE AT THE ENTRANCE OF SOME OF THE OUTFLOW STRUCTURES, SOME TYPE OF A SPREADER SYSTEM, OR A BERM SYSTEM THAT COULD BE ENGINEERED, WHICH WOULD ALLOW THE WATER THE MOVE ACROSS BROADER EXPANSES RATHER THAN CHANNELIZING SOME OF THESE AREAS. WE COULD CREATE -- WELL, WE MIGHT SIMPLY REMOVE SOME OF THE DIKE AREAS; THAT'S A POSSIBILITY, AND RECONFIGURE SOME OF THE FLOWS. THE FIRST THING THAT I THINK WE NEED TO DO, IF WE WANT TO CONSIDER THIS IS TO TRY TO DETERMINE HISTORICALLY WHAT SOME OF THE VEGETATION PATTERNS WERE LIKE IN THE AREAS. I THINK TO SIMPLY SORT OF WILLY-NILLY DECIDE THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1913 SHEET FLOW HERE AND SHEET FLOW THERE, I THINK HISTORICAL ANALYSIS -- ALBEIT, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO RESTORE THE EVERGLADES BACK TO WHAT IT WAS UNLESS WE REMOVE A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION FROM SOUTH FLORIDA -- BUT WE NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE HISTORICAL PALEO-ECOLOGICAL PROFILES IN THE GROUND TO DETERMINE WHAT CERTAIN AREAS WERE; FROM THIS TRY TO PROJECT FORWARD WHAT WE COULD MAINTAIN. AND I GUESS I'M CONCERNED THAT INDIVIDUALS WOULD JUST AUTOMATICALLY THINK THEY WOULD QUOTE, "RESTORE THE EVERGLADES" BY JUST AUTOMATICALLY PUTTING SHEET FLOW. THEY HAVE TO BE THE RIGHT PLACES; THE RIGHT TIME; THE RIGHT QUANTITY. BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE IN TERMS OF THE HYDROLOGY AND HYDROPERIOD AND THE QUANTITY OF WATER. IT IS THE MOST DRAMATIC ALTERATION TO THE EVERGLADES BY FAR. Q. IF WE DID THE THINGS THAT YOU JUST SUGGESTED, BUT DIDN'T REDUCE PHOSPHORUS GOING INTO THE EVERGLADES, MERELY SPREAD THE WATER COMING IN OR -- THROUGH SPREADERS OR BERMS, WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT TO BE THE RESULT ON WHAT WE'VE DESCRIBED THIS WEEK AS ENRICHED AREAS? WOULD THE AREAS WE'VE SEEN ON MAPS THAT HAVE BEEN NICELY PLOTTED AS ENRICHED, WOULD THEIR BOUNDARIES DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1914 CHANGE; WOULD THEY DISAPPEAR; DO YOU HAVE ANY VIEW OF THAT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. IF THEY -- IF YOU JUST SIMPLY SPREAD THE WATER OUT OVER MORE AREA--- Q. YES, SIR. A. ---IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? Q. YES, SIR. A. IN TERMS OF "WOULD THEY DISAPPEAR," ARE YOU SAYING -- WHAT YOU'RE ASKING, WHETHER THE VEGETATION WOULD CHANGE, OR WOULD THEY RESORT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL AREAS, OR -- I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY DISAPPEAR. THE AREAS WOULDN'T DISAPPEAR. Q. WELL, OF COURSE, THE GEOGRAPHY WOULD STILL BE THERE, BUT IF YOU CAN PICTURE THE MAPS THAT WE HAVE SEEN OF LOXAHATCHEE AND WCA-2A, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF THEM HAVE VERY NICELY SHOWN THROUGH A SERIES OF LINES WHAT WE HAVE DESCRIBED AS ENRICHED AREAS, AND THOSE SEEM TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH INFLOWS, AS I UNDERSTAND THOSE MAPS. THEY SEEM TO BE MOST -- THE PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS, AT LEAST, HAVE BEEN GREATEST NEAR THE INFLOWS AND SEEM TO SPREAD OUT. NOW, IF WE CHANGED THE FLOW IN THE WAYS YOU'VE SUGGESTED, WHICH CERTAINLY SOUNDS REASONABLE, CAN YOU DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1915 DESCRIBE WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO -- HOW YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE THOSE CONTOUR LINES CHANGE, OR WOULD THE ENRICHED AREAS DISAPPEAR; WOULD WE NO LONGER HAVE THE CONTOUR LINES? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. WELL, IF YOU -- FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IF -- I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU COULD SPREAD ALL THAT WATER OUT OVER ALL THOSE AREAS. I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS, IT ALWAYS COMES IN AT SOME LOCATION, BUT LET'S SAY YOU DID SPREAD IT OUT. IF YOU SPREAD IT ALL OUT, AND YOU'RE GOING TO KEEP THE PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION--- Q. YES, SIR. A. ---THE SAME? Q. YES, SIR. A. WELL, I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MUCH CHANGE IN SOME OF THOSE AREAS, AT LEAST NOT FOR QUITE A WHILE. BUT WITH SOME OF THE AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN VERY CLOSE TO THE STRUCTURES, BECAUSE THEY WILL HAVE HAD RECEIVED ENRICHMENT. THE SOIL PORE WATER IN SOME OF THOSE AREAS WOULD BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THOSE VEGETATIONS FOR A CONSIDERABLE PERIOD OF TIME. Q. I'M SORRY, I THINK YOU SAID THE SOIL POOR WATER. A. PORE WATER. CONTENT. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1916 Q. P-O-R-E? A. P-O-R-E. Q. THANKS. I BELIEVE YOU DISCUSSED AT PAGES 807 TO 809 OF YOUR PRIOR TESTIMONY A MODEL WHICH WOULD PRODUCE A SETTLING RATE, I THINK YOU SAID AT THAT TIME, WITHIN SIX MONTHS, WHICH YOU WERE WORKING ON WITH DR. QUALLS AND CRAFT? A. LET ME SEE WHERE WE ARE HERE. ARE WE ON 80--- Q. 807, I BELIEVE, TO 809. A. I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO 806. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) A. SO, YOU WANT--- Q. (BY MR. REED) YOU MAY NOT HAVE TO LOOK AT IT. I JUST WONDER IF SUCH A MODEL HAS BEEN BUILT. A. WELL, WHICH PAGE ARE WE ON, WE CAN SEE THIS THING. Q. 807 TO 809. A. OKAY. WE'VE GOT THEM HERE. OKAY. IT'LL JUST TAKE ME ONE MINUTE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. WELL, AS I SAID BEFORE, THERE ARE SEVERAL DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1917 THINGS WE'VE DONE. ONE, WE COMPLETED OUR FIELD ANALYSIS, AND WE'VE PUBLISHED THAT PAPER WHICH GIVES US OUR FIELD ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE STORAGE RATE IS IN GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR. SO, THAT HAS BEEN COMPLETED. THAT IS NOT A SETTLING RATE, PER SE, BUT IT CAN BE UTILIZED TO INDICATE WHAT A SETTLING RATE MIGHT BE. AND SECONDLY, I HAVE WORKED -- BEEN WORKING ON WITH DR. MARIN WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD UTILIZE OUR DATA TO TRY TO COME UP WITH A SETTLING RATE ESTIMATE, IF YOU JUST BELIEVE THE LUMP SUM PARAMETER MODEL THAT DR. WALKER USES. AS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT EARLIER TODAY, WE THEN UTILIZED A THIRD METHOD, WHICH IS THE ALTERNATIVE MODEL METHOD ON LOAD. SO, WE WERE TRYING SEVERAL ESTIMATES TO COME UP WITH A -- SORT OF A BOUNDARY AS AN ESTIMATE. WHEN WE TRIED TO DO THESE -- TO COMPARE THESE, THESE METHODS DO NOT COMPARE DIRECTLY. I'VE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS ALSO WITH STEVE GHERINI ABOUT THE METHODS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO WITH SIMULATION MODELS AND HAVE MET WITH THEM. AND FROM THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND FROM MY ANALYSIS OF THE DATA, IT WAS APPARENT THAT THERE WAS SOME DISCREPANCY IN SETTLING RATES IN THE WATER COLUMN VERSUS USING A DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1918 SETTLING RATE FROM THE SEDIMENTS. SO, ALBEIT, FROM THAT WE -- IN THOSE ANALYSIS WE SEEM TO HAVE A RANGE, I THINK, THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE OTHER DAY, THAT GOES FROM THE -- SOME ZONES IN THE WATER COLUMN FROM ABOUT .6 ALL THE WAY UP TO 10 OR 12. AND, SO, WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF -- QUITE A BIT OF RANGE. AND AFTER LISTENING TO DR. KADLEC'S DEPOSITION, I THINK HIS RANGES WENT FROM .9 TO 30 SOMETHING. SO, RECENTLY DR. MARIN AND I HAVE MET ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS TO TRY TO AT LEAST APPROXIMATE DR. WALKER'S SETTLING RATE, WHICH WE HAD DONE. WE MENTIONED THAT THE OTHER DAY. WE PUT OUR NEW ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IN THAT MODEL, AND I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT JUST BY ADDING THAT DATA AND REMOVING THE R10 CORE, WHICH IS HIGHLY SUSPECT AS A VIABLE CORE, I'M QUITE CONCERNED ABOUT SOMETHING SO CRITICAL AS A -- TRYING TO COME UP WITH A SETTLING RATE WITH ONE DATA POINT WEIGHTING THE WHOLE REGRESSION. WHEN WE DO THAT THE SETTLING RATE, AS I MENTIONED TO YOU, DROPS APPROXIMATELY THIRTY PERCENT INTO THE SEVEN RANGE. SO, AS FAR AS THAT GOES, YES, WE HAVE BEEN DOING THAT. WE HAVEN'T MADE OUR FINAL ANALYSIS ON ALL THAT DATA, BUT THOSE THREE PIECES GIVE US A PRETTY GOOD HANDLE ON THE BOUNDARIES AND SOME UNCERTAINTY RELATED DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1919 TO THE SETTLING RATE. Q. THE LAST TIME, I BELIEVE -- THIS COMES AT PAGES 813 TO 816. I BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR PHOSPHORUS REMOVAL PURPOSES TO HAVE A SPLIT SYSTEM WHICH COULD BE DRIED OUT AND RECHARGED. COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THAT MEANS AND HOW IT WOULD WORK? A. IT IS MY EXPERIENCE THAT WETLANDS THAT HAVE -- WETLANDS -- IF YOU WISH TO USE A WETLANDS SYSTEM OR CREATE A WETLANDS SYSTEM, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT HAS BEEN WHERE PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO USE WETLANDS TO REMOVE MATERIALS, NUTRIENTS, IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THE FACT THAT WETLANDS -- NATURAL WETLANDS, NOT EVERY YEAR BUT QUITE OFTEN, GO THROUGH A DRY PERIOD WHERE THEY ACTUALLY ARE DRY. AND THAT -- THE MISUNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE SPECIES THAT EXIST THERE AND THE ORGANISMS THAT EXIST THERE, AND ESPECIALLY THE MACROPHYTES THAT GROW THERE, GROW -- TO GROW UNDER CONTINUOUS FLOODING FOR MANY SPECIES IS DIFFICULT, EVEN THOUGH THESE SPECIES EXIST IN WETLANDS. AND, SO, IF YOU TAKE CYPRESS TREES, OR YOU TAKE OTHER TREES, OR YOU TAKE CATTAILS, OR YOU TAKE PHRAGMITES, OR YOU TAKE MANY OF THESE SPECIES AND YOU CONTINUOUSLY FLOOD THEM, THEY WILL GROW AT A -- THEY DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1920 CAN GROW AT A SLOWER RATE. ALSO, THE SOIL COMPONENTS, QUITE OFTEN IF YOU'RE USING SOME OF THE SOIL COMPONENTS ON SOME TYPES OF WETLANDS SYSTEMS CAN RECHARGE UNDER OXIDATION CONDITIONS. SO, THE CHEMISTRIES CAN CHANGE. ALBEIT, WHEN YOU DRY THESE OUT THERE CAN BE SOME PROBLEMS OF RELEASE OF MATERIALS, TOO. BUT ON THE WHOLE, IF ONE IS COUNTING UPON PLANT PRODUCTION, ESPECIALLY MACROPHYTES, ONE HAS TO BE CAREFUL THAT ONE DOESN'T CONTINUALLY FLOOD THESE PLANTS ALL THE TIME YEAR AFTER YEAR, DAY AFTER DAY, WEEK AFTER WEEK, SINCE THEIR PRODUCTIVITY CAN BE REDUCED. AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE TO COMPARE THE PRODUCTIVITY AND YOU GO TO A NATURAL SYSTEM TO SAY, WHAT RATES COULD WE GET FOR PRODUCTIVITY OVER HERE, AND YOU LOOK AT THIS AND YOU SAY, PRODUCTIVITY, LET'S SAY, IS TWO THOUSAND GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR. THAT PRODUCTIVITY, LET'S SAY IN WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A FOR, SAY, CATTAILS IS THE RESULT OF THEM GROWING UNDER THE VARIOUS CONDITIONS, ONE OF THEM BEING WET PERIODS AND DRY PERIODS. IF YOU THEN TRY TO TRANSFER THAT TO A SYSTEM OVER HERE WHERE THE PLANTS ARE CONTINUOUSLY FLOODED ALL THE TIME YOU MAY NOT GET THAT SAME PRODUCTIVITY. SO, THEREFORE, YOU WOULD HAVE LESS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1921 CARBON STORAGE; YOU MAY HAVE LESS PHOSPHORUS STORAGE. SO, THIS HAS TO BE CHECKED OUT. SO, THAT WAS THE REASON I MADE THOSE STATEMENTS AND THE REASON I MADE THE STATEMENTS -- WHICH I STILL BELIEVE TO BE THE CASE -- THAT THE ENR PROJECT NEEDS TO TEST THIS TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT CREATING A SYSTEM THAT WILL NOT FUNCTION TO ITS OPTIMUM. Q. DID YOU SAY IN THE BEGINNING OF THAT ANSWER THAT THE SOIL MAY ALSO BE MORE EFFICIENT IN ABSORBING PHOSPHORUS IF IT'S ALLOWED TO DRY OCCASIONALLY, OR WERE YOU JUST TALKING ABOUT PLANTS? I'M NOT SURE I HEARD IT CORRECTLY. A. IN A NUMBER OF SYSTEMS IT'S BEEN SHOWN -- SOIL SCIENTISTS HAVE SHOWN THAT IF YOU ALLOW A SYSTEM TO SORT OF RECHARGE, THAT IS, LET THE STRUCTURE HAVE SOME DRYING OUT -- I'M NOT SAYING DESERT CONDITIONS, BUT SOME DRYING OUT -- THEN THE SOIL SURFACES HAVE A CHANCE TO EXPAND AND CONTRACT, AND YOU CAN EXPOSE NEW SURFACES AND CHANGE THE EXCHANGE CAPACITY, CHANGE SOME OF THE CHEMISTRIES. AND IT'S WHAT THE SOIL SCIENTISTS REFER TO AS A RECHARGE, WHICH GIVES IN A SENSE -- A SIMPLE ANALOGY, SORT OF NEW LIFE TO SOME OF THOSE SURFACES. Q. YOU MENTIONED LAST TIME THAT THE BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES IN THE EAA MAY REDUCE THE TONS OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1922 PHOSPHORUS COMING IN, AND WE CERTAINLY HOPE THAT THAT WILL BE TRUE. YOU SAID, I THINK, THAT THIS WOULD HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE SETTLING RATE IN THE STA'S. CAN YOU TELL ME WHY THAT WOULD BE? AND THAT MAY NOT BE ACCURATELY PARAPHRASED. THIS IS AT PAGE 817, SO, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THAT. I JUST WASN'T SURE I UNDER -- WELL I'M QUITE SURE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED THERE. A. WE DON'T HAVE THOSE PAGES, BUT THAT'S OKAY. Q. OKAY. A. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THAT'S IN TERMS OF -- YOU -- SO, GIVE ME THIS AGAIN. IT'S--- Q. YEAH. MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT YOU SAID THE REDUCTION OF PHOSPHORUS COMING IN FROM THE EAA, BECAUSE OF ENP'S, MIGHT HAVE A SEVERE EFFECT ON THE WORKING OF AN STA. A. I THINK WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO THERE IS WHAT I MENTIONED THE OTHER DAY, AND THAT IS, I'M REFERRING TO THE FORMS OF PHOSPHORUS THAT WOULD BE ENTERING THE STA. ONE, WE WOULD LIKE TO TEST THE FORMS THAT IF THEY WERE IN CERTAIN FORMS -- PHOSPHORUS COMES IN DIFFERENT FORMS, PARTICULATES AND DISSOLVED ORGANIC PHOSPHORUS AND ORTHOPHOSPHORUS, AND THAT THOSE FORMS ARE NOT -- FROM OUR DATA IN WCA-2A, IT'S QUITE CLEAR THAT SOME OF DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1923 THOSE FORMS ARE MORE READILY REMOVED FROM THE WATER COLUMN THAN OTHER FORMS. AND I WAS SUGGESTING THAT, IN FACT, IF THE BMP'S, WHICH I FULLY SUPPORT AND WANT TO REDUCE THE PHOSPHORUS, COULD ALTER THE FRACTIONS OF PHOSPHORUS COMPONENTS IN THE WATER COLUMN, AND THIS, IN FACT, THEN IN TURN, COULD AFFECT SOME OF THE SETTLING RATES. SO, THAT -- THAT'S ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I THINK THE ENR PROJECT SHOULD BE TESTING TO SEE IF, IN FACT, THEY CAN ALTER UPSTREAM SOME OF THOSE TO SEE WHAT THIS WOULD DO TO THE STORAGE CAPACITY OF THOSE SYSTEMS. Q. THAT MAKES SENSE. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) Q. (BY MR. REED) DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION ON WHETHER FLOODING OR EXCESS POOLING CAUSED BY THE FEDERAL PROJECT HAS CAUSED MORE VEGETATIVE OR ECOSYSTEM CHANGE THAN NUTRIENTS HAVE? A. YES. Q. AND WHAT IS THAT OPINION? A. I BELIEVE THE -- OOPS, I ALMOST MADE A DISASTER HERE. THE FEDERAL PROJECT HAS RESULTED IN THE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1924 SHIFTS OF WATER TO CERTAIN LOCATIONS, HOLDING WATER IN THE SOUTHERN ENDS OF CERTAIN WATER CONSERVATION AREAS CAUSING POOLING OF MATERIALS WHICH HAS CHANGED THE -- I THINK WITH WCA-2A, FOR EXAMPLE, WE SAW FOR A PERIOD OF TIME THE RECORD SHOWS THEY CREATED A COMPLETELY AQUATIC SYSTEM, AND THEN TURNED AROUND AND -- AT THE SAME TIME FLOODED OUT THE TREE ISLANDS KILLING THEM. HISTORICAL MAPS SHOW VERY CLEARLY THAT THERE WERE A LARGE NUMBER OF TREE ISLANDS. WHEN WE FIRST STARTED THIS STUDY WE KEPT LOOKING AND LOOKING FOR THESE TREE ISLANDS FROM THE HISTORICAL MAPS AND AFTER DISCUSSING WITH THE DISTRICT AND OTHER PEOPLE THEY -- AND LOOKING AT THE RECORDS THEY HAD, THEY WERE DESTROYED, THEY WERE GONE. ALSO, OTHER AREAS OF THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS HAVE NOW BECOME HIGH AND DRY, AND THEY SIMPLY HAVE -- DUE TO THE WAY THE WATER IS DIVERTED, HAVE MUCH LOWER WATER VOLUMES THAN THEY'VE EVER HAD TO THE DEGREE -- I NOTICED, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE ANALYSIS THAT WAS DONE BY STEVE DAVIS AND GROUP OVER SIXTY THOUSAND ACRES OF SLOUGHS HAVE BEEN CONVERTED TO SAWGRASS, ACCORDING TO THE RECORDS THAT THEY HAVE. SO, THE RECORDS, I THINK SPEAK PRETTY CLEARLY THAT THERE HAVE BEEN VAST CHANGES IN THE COMMUNITIES DUE TO DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1925 THIS PROJECT. Q. AND DO YOU THINK THAT THE PROJECT HAS HAD A GREATER INFLUENCE ON THE ECOSYSTEM CHANGE IN THE EVERGLADES THAN HAS THE INTRODUCTION OF NUTRIENTS? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. IT HAS A GREATER EFFECT? Q. NO, I'M ASKING, OF THOSE TWO ELEMENTS THAT MAY HAVE AFFECTED THE EVERGLADES, THE FEDERAL PROJECT AND NUTRIENTS, DO YOU HAVE ANY VIEW OF WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT, IF EITHER? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, I HAVE AN OPINION THAT THE -- IF YOU'RE ASKING THAT THE SOUTH FLORIDA CENTRAL WATER PROJECT AND ITS RAMIFICATIONS, IT HAS RESULTED, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, CHANGING THE ENTIRE HYDROLOGY, HYDROGRAPH, HYDROPERIOD AND FLOW TO THE SYSTEM IS BY FAR THE GREATEST -- HAS HAD THE GREATEST EFFECT ON THE EVERGLADES. AND I THINK NUTRIENTS, BY COMPARISON, ARE A LOCALIZED PROBLEM AROUND CERTAIN AREAS, WHICH I THINK I'VE DISCUSSED OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS. AND SO ON A -- IF YOU HAD TO SCALE IT, OF WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE AREA IS AFFECTED BY THE HYDROLOGICAL PROJECT, IT'S ALL BEEN AFFECTED BY THE HYDROLOGIC DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1926 PROJECT. WHEREAS, NUTRIENTS WOULD BE A MUCH, MUCH SMALLER COMPONENT. I THINK I MENTIONED THE OTHER DAY, I THINK THE ENTIRE EVERGLADES IS NOW AT SORT OF A NEW BASELINE. ALBEIT, IT'S STILL FUNCTIONING AS AN EVERGLADES, ALTHOUGH IT'S A NEW -- IT'S SORT OF A -- SYSTEMS REACH A NEW STATE, SORT OF A NEW -- WHEN YOU CHANGE A SYSTEM IT REACHES ANOTHER STATE. AND AS LONG AS THE IN -- AS LONG AS THE INPUTS TO THAT ARE WITHIN SOME BOUNDS IT WILL MAINTAIN ITSELF. SO, THE EVERGLADES, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE AT A NEW BASE AND A STATE, THEY'RE GOING TO EXIST, AND HAVE EXISTED, AND WILL EXIST FOR LONG AFTER WE'RE GONE, PROVIDING WE JUST DON'T REMOVE ALL THE WATER FROM THE SYSTEM. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINION AS TO WHETHER MELALEUCA INFESTATION HAS CAUSED MORE VEGETATIVE CHANGE THAN NUTRIENTS HAVE CAUSED? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, WHEN I -- I HAVE LOOKED AT SOME MAPS THAT WERE PRODUCED RECENTLY, AND SOME OF THE DISTRICT INFORMATION, AND I HAVE LOOKED AT SOME MAPS THAT MIKE DENNIS -- OR SOME ACREAGE FIGURES, I SHOULD SAY, THAT MIKE DENNIS PRODUCED IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF AREA THAT'S BEEN IMPACTED BY MELALEUCA. AND IT IS A DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1927 CONSIDERABLE AREA. IT'S A FAR MORE DIFFICULT PROBLEM. IT IS AN EXOTIC, AS YOU MAY KNOW, WHICH WAS BROUGHT IN TO DRAIN THE EVERGLADES, TO HELP DRY IT OUT, AND IT'S DOING WHAT IT WAS BROUGHT IN FOR. BUT IT IS ALSO AN EXTREMELY DIFFICULT SPECIES TO REMOVE, A VERY EXPENSIVE ONE TO REMOVE, AND IT ALSO CREATES, ECOLOGICALLY, SUCH A FOREIGN HABITAT FOR NATIVE SPECIES, IT EXCLUDES NATIVE SPECIES, AND IT IS SO FOREIGN TO THE NATIVE SPECIES WE HAVE, THAT IT CREATES A -- SORT OF THESE ISOLATED ISLANDS OF VEGETATION THAT ARE QUITE DISRUPTIVE TO THE NORMAL ECOLOGY OF THE EVERGLADES. I -- IF WE HAD TO SCALE THEM ON A SCALE, I WOULD SAY THAT THE MELALEUCA IS A FAR MORE INSIDIOUS PROBLEM THAN -- AND, OF COURSE, THERE'S SOME OTHER SPECIES THERE, TOO, BRAZILIAN PEPPER AND OTHER PLACES, BUT THAT PROBLEM IS QUITE DRAMATIC AND A VERY DIFFICULT ONE. THE PARK AND THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT ARE GOING TO HAVE GREAT DIFFICULTY WITH THOSE SPECIES. Q. YOU SAID -- YOU STARTED TO SAY A "FAR MORE DIFFICULT PROBLEM THAN" AND I THINK YOU STARTED A NEW SENTENCE. WERE YOU GOING TO SAY NUTRIENTS? A. I THINK THEY'RE MORE DIFFICULT THAN NUTRIENTS DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1928 BECAUSE I THINK THE CHANCE OF EXPANSION OF THE MELALEUCA IS FAR GREATER THAN THE CHANCES OF THE EXPANSION OF THE NUTRIENTS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE BMP'S AND THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE BROUGHT INTO PLAY. Q. DO YOU THINK THE DISTRICT HAS CORRECTLY DETERMINED THE PROPER SIZE OF STA'S? DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION ON THAT YET? A. PROPER SIZE OF--- Q. OF STA'S. A. AT WHAT TIME? I MEAN, WHICH -- ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE SWIM PLAN SIZING? Q. YES, SIR, THE PRESENT PLAN. A. THE ONE THAT'S ON THE TABLE NOW, IS THE ONE THAT'S BEING CHALLENGED? Q. YEAH. YES. A. NO, I THINK OUR DATA WOULD INDICATE THAT THEY HAVE NOT SIZED THEM PROPERLY, FOR THE REASONS WE STATED EARLIER, THE LOADING MODEL AND THE RE-ANALYSIS OF THE CORE DATA, AND THE UNCERTAINTY RELATED TO THE WATER COLUMN, AND THE PROBLEMS WITH THE VEGETATION. MY ESTIMATE FOR THE SIZE OF THE STA'S IS BASED ON A MORE CONSERVATIVE ONE AND I BELIEVE WOULD BE MORE REALISTIC IN TERMS OF THEIR WORKINGS. MR. REED: THAT'S ALL I HAVE, DOCTOR, DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1929 THANKS VERY MUCH. MR. REID: ONE SECOND. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) MR. REID: I HAVE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. REID: Q. WOULD YOU FIND EXHIBIT SEVENTEEN, AGAIN, PLEASE. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) A. I HAVE IT. Q. (BY MR. REID) THERE'S THE PARAGRAPH ON THE SECOND PAGE ENTITLED "BRIEFING PAPER." A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. DO I UNDERSTAND THAT THE CALCULATIONS YOU'RE DOING THERE ARE A MATTER OF TAKING THE NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE AND DRAWING CONCLUSIONS FROM THAT DATABASE? A. YES. Q. NOW, IS THAT THE CURRENTLY UPDATED NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE OR ONE THAT EXISTED PREVIOUSLY? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1930 A. THIS WAS A MODIFIED -- THIS IS A NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE WITH SOME ADDITIONAL SITES THAT WE ADDED TO IT. Q. WHERE WERE THOSE SITES? A. I DON'T REMEMBER; I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT. I BELIEVE SOME OF THEM CAME FROM THE KADLEC/NEWMAN REPORT AND SOME OF THEM CAME, I THINK, FROM SOME DISTRICT DATA. Q. SO, I MEAN, WERE THEY FLORIDA--- A. YES. Q. ---WERE THEY FLORIDA SITES? A. YEAH. YES. Q. WCA-2A TYPE? A. I BELIEVE WCA-2A SITES AND SOME ADDITIONAL FLORIDA SITES THAT WERE ADDED. Q. SO, YOUR CONCLUSIONS REGARDING -- OR YOUR THRESHOLD LIMIT OF ONE GRAM PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR AS BEING THE THRESHOLD LEVEL, THAT IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE DATA AND DETERMINE WHAT THE THRESHOLD LEVEL WOULD BE GIVEN ALL THAT DATA? A. CORRECT. Q. YOU HAVEN'T TRIED TO PREDICT, IF YOU WILL, AT THIS POINT WHETHER THAT PARTICULAR THRESHOLD LEVEL WOULD APPLY IN STA'S TO BE BUILT UNDER THE SWIM PLAN? DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1931 MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO THE FORM. MR. REED: SAME OBJECTION. A. WHETHER THIS PARTICULAR NUMBER RELATED TO STA'S YOU'RE SAYING? Q. YEAH. YOU HAVEN'T TRIED -- YOU -- IN THIS PAPER, EXHIBIT SEVENTEEN, YOU HAVEN'T TRIED TO REACH A CONCLUSION THAT THE STA'S, AS PROPOSED, WOULD ACT THE SAME WAY--- A. IN THIS -- I THINK THIS PARTICULAR DRAFT THAT IS THE CASE. LET'S SEE IF I -- AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THIS IS A TRUNCATED VERSION OF THE JULY ANALYSIS. IF YOU'RE ASKING WHETHER ON THAT PARTICULAR PARAGRAPH -- LET ME READ IT. LET'S SEE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) Q. WELL, MY QUESTION IS, ARE YOU SAYING IN THIS THAT YOU BELIEVE THE STA'S THAT ARE BEING BUILT -- OR THAT ARE PROPOSED TO BE BUILT WILL -- THAT THE OUTFLOW CONCENTRATION WOULD EXCEED FORTY PARTS PER BILLION IF THE INPUT LOAD EXCEEDED ONE GRAM PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR, OR ARE YOU SAYING TO THE CONTRARY, THAT THAT'S HOW ALL OF THESE OTHER WETLANDS HAVE PERFORMED? MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. A. WELL, THERE'RE SEVERAL IN QUESTIONS IN THERE. Q. TWO. DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1932 A. TWO. Q. ACTUALLY IT'S ONE QUESTION. I'M ASKING YOU WHICH OF THOSE ALTERNATIVES--- A. REPEAT THAT, PLEASE. Q. YEAH. I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT IF YOU ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO THE NEXT STEP IN EXHIBIT SEVENTEEN. I UNDERSTAND YOU CAN PERHAPS CAN, BUT I WANT TO KNOW IF YOU'VE DONE--- A. IN SEVENTEEN--- Q. ---IN EXHIBIT SEVENTEEN--- A. ---IN SEVENTEEN IS A VERY TRUNCATED AND ABBREVIATED VERSION OF SIMPLY SHOWING WHAT THE NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE SHOWS, AND IT BASICALLY -- WE WERE TRYING TO DETERMINE FROM THAT WHERE ON THE LOADING AXES YOU WOULD START TO SEE A VARIATION IN THE EFFLUENT CONCENTRATION OUTPUT, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS DOCUMENT TRIES TO SHOW IS WHERE THAT EXISTS. AND THIS COULD BE USED -- THIS WAS THEN GOING TO BE USED -- THIS DOCUMENT SAYS PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS, THIS WAS THEN GOING TO BE USED TO TRY TO DETERMINE, AS AN ALTERNATE MODEL, WHETHER OR NOT STA'S COULD DO THAT. IT DIDN'T GET TO THAT POINT IN THIS PARTICULAR ONE. Q. SO, YOU BELIEVE THAT THE INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE DETERMINED, OR THAT YOU FOUND IN EXHIBIT SEVENTEEN DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1933 COULD BE USED IN EVALUATING THE STA'S THAT WERE PROPOSED UNDER THE SWIM PLAN? A. IT WOULD GIVE -- IT WOULD GIVE YOU AN ESTIMATE, AND THAT IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE RECKHOW MODEL, YES, I BELIEVE WOULD BE A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE MODEL TO USE. Q. DO YOU INTEND TO DO THAT BEFORE THE HEARING? A. YES. Q. AND BY THAT MEAN I MEAN APPLY THE CONCLUSIONS OF EXHIBIT SEVENTEEN TO THE PROPOSED STA'S? A. WELL, AND IN ADDITION TO THAT THE EARLIER VERSION AS WELL AS UTILIZING THE MODEL IN THE RECKHOW. Q. WELL, SURE, YOU'RE GOING TO DO OTHER THINGS, BUT SPECIFICALLY YOU'RE GOING TO DO WHAT I'VE JUST ASKED YOU ABOUT? A. WELL, WE WILL PROBABLY UPDATE -- WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET THE NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE UPDATE AND WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO SO, AND IT HAS NOT RELEASED TO US. WE JUST OBTAINED, WE THINK, A VERSION OF THIS, AND WE ARE TESTING IT OUT NOW. WE WILL PROBABLY UPDATE THIS WITH A NEW NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE AND SEE WHERE THIS FITS. Q. OKAY. WE WERE TALKING -- OR YOU WERE TALKING WITH MR. REED A MINUTE AGO ABOUT THE RELATIVE DR. RICHARDSON VOLUME III PAGE 1934 IMPORTANCE OF HYDROLOGY VERSUS NUTRIENTS. AND YOU SAID THAT THE ENTIRE PROJECT -- THE ENTIRE EVERGLADES, IF YOU WILL, WERE AFFECTED BY HYDROLOGY, WHEREAS, YOU BELIEVE NUTRIENTS TO BE A LIMITED PROBLEM -- OR LIMITED IN AREA PROBLEM, IS THAT CORRECT? A. A MORE REGIONAL PROBLEM, YES. Q. OKAY. NOW, IS IT A FACT THAT ALL OF THE HYDROLOGICAL EFFECTS THROUGHOUT THE EVERGLADES -- LET ME STRIKE THAT. I'LL ASK IT A DIFFERENT WAY. DO YOU HAVE CHANGES TO THE SYSTEM THROUGHOUT THE EVERGLADES WHERE THE HYDROLOGY HAS BEEN CHANGED? A. DO WE HAVE CHANGES FROM WHAT? Q. DO YOU HAVE IMPACT? MR. BURGESS: OBJECT TO FORM. A. I DON'T -- I