215

 1           Division of Administrative Hearings
 2      Department of Administration, State of Florida
 3 
      SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE      )
 4    of FLORIDA; ROTH FARMS, INC.; and   )
      WEDGWORTH FARMS, Inc.,              )
 5              Petitioners               )
         V                           DOAH Case No. 92-3038
 6    SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT      )
      DISTRICT, an agency of the State    )
 7    of Florida; et al.,                 )
                Respondents.              )
 8 
      FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.;    )
 9    UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION;    )
      and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC.,           )
10                Petitioners,            )
         V                           DOAH Case No. 92-3039
11    SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT      )
      DISTRICT, an agency of the State    )
12    of Florida; et al.,                 )
                  Respondents.            )
13 
      FLORIDA FRUIT and VEGETABLE         )
14    ASSOCIATION; LEWIS POPE FARMS;      )
      W. E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC.,      )
15    and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC.,            )
                    Petitioners,          )
16        V                          DOAH Case No. 92-3040
      SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT      )
17    DISTRICT, an agency of the State    )
      of Florida; et al.,                 )
18                  Respondents.          )
   
19 
                     Deposition of Peter Rhoads
20                        VOLUME II
   
21             Taken before Elaine V.  Williams,
     Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for
22   the State of Florida at large, pursuant to notice of
     taking deposition filed by the Petitioners in the
23   above cause.
                             -  -  -
24   Wednesday, September 30, 1992
     3301 Gun Club Road
25   West Palm Beach, Florida 33416
     12:50 - 5:00 p.m.

                                                 216

 1    APPEARANCES:
 2 
          On behalf of the Petitioners Florida Sugar
 3         Cane League, Inc., United States Sugar Corp.,
           and New South Hope, Inc.:
 4             Peeples, Earl & Blank, P.A.
               One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636
 5             Two South Biscayne Boulevard
               Miami, Florida  33131
 6             By:  WILLIAM EARL, ESQUIRE
                    JONATHAN L. GAINES, ESQUIRE
 7 
          On behalf of the Respondent SFWMD:
 8             South Florida Water Management District
               3301 Gun Club Road
 9             West Palm Beach, Florida  33416-4680
               By:  JACQUELYN W. BIRCH, ESQUIRE
10 
          On behalf of the Intervenor, United States of America:
11            Department of Justice
              155 South Miami Avenue, Suite 627
12            Miami, Florida  33130-1693
              BY:  SUZAN HILL PONZOLI, ESQUIRE
13 
   
14 
                           -  -  -

                                                 217

 1                         -  -  -
 2                      I  N  D  E  X
 3                         -  -  -
 4 
 5  WITNESS:            DIRECT  CROSS  REDIRECT  RECROSS
 6  Peter Rhoads
 7 
    BY MR. EARL:         218(continued)
 8 
   
 9                         -  -  -
10                     E X H I B I T S
11                         -  -  -
12 
13  NUMBER                       PAGE NO.
14 
   
15 
   
16 

                                                 218

 1                    P R O C E E D I N G S
 2                       -  -  -
 3   Thereupon,
 4              Peter Rhoads,
 5   being by the undersigned Notary Public previously duly
 6   sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
 7              THE WITNESS:  I do.
 8                      CONTINUED DIRECT (Peter Rhoads)
 9             MR. EARL:  Can we go back on the record,
10        please?
11   BY MR. EARL:
12       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, we are resuming your
13   deposition.  I remind you, you are under oath.
14       A.    Yes.
15       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, is it true that the works of
16   the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control
17   project have substantially changed the flow of water
18   in the Everglades?
19             MS. BIRCH:  Object to the form.
20             MR. EARL:  Pardon me?
21             MS. BIRCH:  I say object to the form.
22             MR. EARL:  Why?
23             MS. BIRCH:  What is the meaning of
24        substantial?
25             MR. EARL:  I don't know.

                                                 219

 1             MS. PONZOLI:  Well, then I'm going to
 2        object to the form also.
 3   BY MR. EARL:
 4       Q.    Have you ever said anything like that,
 5   Mr. Rhoads?
 6       A.    I believe I have, Counsel.
 7       Q.    You know what it means, don't you,
 8   substantially, in that context?
 9       A.    In my definition, yes.
10       Q.    Okay.  Why don't you tell counsel what that
11   means in your definition.
12             MS. BIRCH:  Well, I think he is trying to
13        respond to your questions, Mr. Earl.
14             MR. EARL:  Right.  And you had a question
15        about what substantially meant.  Now I'm asking
16        him to explain it for all of our benefit.
17             THE WITNESS:  The term substantial means,
18        in my opinion, a major, a big, a measurable
19        difference.  I have used that phrase on numerous
20        occasions.
21   BY MR. EARL:
22       Q.    So you would also then agree that the
23   Central and Southern Florida Flood Control project
24   has made a major, big difference in terms of the flow
25   of water in the Everglades?

                                                 220

 1       A.    Yes, I would generally agree with that.
 2       Q.    Okay.  Has the work of that project also
 3   substantially changed the distribution of water in
 4   the Everglades?
 5       A.    Yes, I believe that is correct.
 6       Q.    Would you also agree with the statement
 7   that the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control
 8   Project has substantially changed and had adverse
 9   effects upon the Everglades?
10       A.    Yes, that is correct.
11       Q.    What is hydroperiod, Mr. Rhoads?
12       A.    In common parlance around the District, the
13   term hydroperiod means the length of time that a
14   parcel of land is inundated.  It's been often
15   construed to mean the depth of duration.  It, in
16   essence, is the length of time that a parcel of land
17   is inundated, basically.
18       Q.    Is that also used to mean how much, how
19   deep and how long it's been inundated?
20       A.    Yes, in general, general parlance, that is
21   correct.
22       Q.    And is hydroperiod in its origins a
23   biological concept.
24       A.    Yes, it is primarily a biological concept
25   rather than hydrologic.

                                                 221

 1       Q.    In your capacity as Everglades Restoration
 2   Director, could you describe for me the problems the
 3   Everglades is suffering as a result of hydroperiod
 4   with reference to specific geographic areas, if you
 5   can?
 6             MS. PONZOLI:  Would you read the question
 7        back, please.
 8             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
 9              was read by the reporter.)
10   BY MR. EARL:
11       Q.    And to make that a little even more
12   specific, Mr. Rhoads, as a result of the design and
13   construction operation of the Central and Southern
14   Florida Flood Control Project?
15             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  It is a
16        compound question.
17   BY MR. EARL:
18       Q.    Do you understand the question, sir?
19             MS. PONZOLI:  It also calls for a narrative
20        which isn't really a proper form of a question,
21        but you have been doing it repeatedly.
22             THE WITNESS:  The predominant problem of a
23        hydroperiod problem in the Everglades is the
24        overdrainage of the northern portion of Water
25        Conservation Area 3A.  This is a portion of the

                                                 222

 1        Everglades that historically received overland
 2        flow from the north, and with the construction
 3        of the containment levee system for the
 4        Everglades Agricultural Area, significant
 5        portions of that area no longer receive upland
 6        flow from its northern boundary, and as a
 7        result, the hydroperiod, the length of time that
 8        those areas are inundated by water, are
 9        substantially less than they were historically.
10        That's, in my opinion, the major hydroperiod
11        problem of the Everglades.
12   BY MR. EARL:
13       Q.    Is a component of that the fact that sheet
14   flow has been replaced by four large pump stations
15   that put water in a single point?
16       A.    The distributional changes that were
17   brought about by the pump stations inputting water at
18   specific points rather than the prior overland flow
19   coming across as a sheet, I think that is a fair
20   characterization cause of the problem.  One cause of
21   the problem.
22       Q.    And would that same situation exist -- are
23   you talking about the pump stations S-5A, 6, 7, 8?
24   Is that correct?
25       A.    To a lesser degree, that type of phenomenon

                                                 223

 1   does occur at S-5A, S-6 and S-7.
 2       Q.    Okay.  To a lesser degree.  Where does it
 3   occur to a more substantial degree?
 4       A.    Beg pardon?
 5       Q.    You say to a lesser degree.  Are you
 6   talking --
 7       A.    What I mean by that is that the hydroperiod
 8   impacts in the northern portion of Conservation Area
 9   3A are the most pronounced hydroperiod impacts, in my
10   opinion.  Similar type impacts occur in the northern
11   portion in the apex of Conservation Area 2A and to a
12   lesser degree in the northern portion of Water
13   Conservation Area 1.
14       Q.    And those are all a result of structures
15   which are a part of the Central and Southern Florida
16   Flood Control Project, sir?
17             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
18             THE WITNESS:  In large part, yes.
19   BY MR. EARL:
20       Q.    You say in large part.  I have to ask you
21   what's the remaining components?
22       A.    The distributional components of the
23   hydroperiod problem of the Everglades is only one.
24   There is a timing component also of when the water
25   comes, and that timing component is determined in

                                                 224

 1   part by the structural facilities, but it is also
 2   determined in part by the upstream inflows.  In other
 3   words, when the water is delivered to the Central and
 4   Southern Florida project.
 5       Q.    In that you would include releases from
 6   Lake Okeechobee, for example?
 7       A.    Releases from Lake Okeechobee, runover from
 8   the farm lands of the Everglades Agricultural Area,
 9   inflows from adjacent areas, yes.
10       Q.    You mentioned the apex of 2A.  What
11   specifically caused the problem up there?  What
12   structurally?
13             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
14             THE WITNESS:  The northern apex of
15        Conservation Area 2A up until the mid 1980's
16        when structure S-10E was constructed by the
17        Water Management District with approval from the
18        Corps of Engineers, prior to that point in time
19        the apex of Conservation Area 2A had essentially
20        no surface water inflow.  The levee system had
21        intercepted the historic overland flow input
22        into that area, and as a result, rainfall was
23        the primary water source.
24   BY MR. EARL:
25       Q.    When you say the levee, you are talking

                                                 225

 1   about the levee, part of the Federal project;
 2   correct?
 3       A.    That is correct.
 4       Q.    And you mentioned also the problem in the
 5   northern portion of Water Conservation Area 1;
 6   correct?
 7       A.    That is correct.
 8       Q.    And would you describe the structural
 9   design problems that caused that?
10             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
11             MR. EARL:  Grounds?
12             MS. PONZOLI:  Oh, I think you're implying
13        that whatever problem is there is only due to
14        the structure.  That is my only objection.
15             MR. EARL:  Okay.
16             THE WITNESS:  The hydroperiod in the
17        northern portion of Conservation Area 1 is, in
18        all likelihood, shorter than it was historically
19        because primarily of the canal system.  The
20        borrow canals serve to drain that northern apex
21        of Conservation Area 1, and because of that
22        difference in elevation between the profile of
23        the canal and the ground elevation, that area
24        has a shorter hydroperiod.

                                                 226

 1   BY MR. EARL:
 2       Q.    When you talk about the borrow canals, do I
 3   understand you as talking about the canals on the
 4   interior side of the levees in the Water Conservation
 5   Area 1?
 6       A.    That is correct.
 7       Q.    Okay.  And am I also correct in
 8   understanding that was part of the Corps of
 9   Engineers' construction design; to get the fill
10   materials from inside the levee?
11       A.    Yes, that is correct.
12       Q.    And do I also understand correctly that the
13   Corps of Engineers had similar plans when they
14   constructed Water Conservation Area 2B, but did not
15   implement them?
16       A.    Roughly similar plans that were not
17   implemented.  The proposed canal across Conservation
18   Area 2A was not a borrow canal, it was a conveyance
19   canal across the area.
20       Q.    And was that failure to construct largely
21   the result of the work of Mr. Dineen?
22       A.    Yes.
23       Q.    What other hydroperiod problems have been
24   created by the design and construction of the Federal
25   project?

                                                 227

 1       A.    The hydroperiod generally in both
 2   conservation area 2B and 3B is, in all likelihood,
 3   considerably shorter than it was under conditions
 4   prior to man's influence in the area.  Because of the
 5   levee system, because of seepage losses from those
 6   two areas, the hydroperiod in general in both of
 7   those Water Conservation Areas is almost certainly
 8   considerably shorter than it was historically.
 9       Q.    And what are the ecological impacts of
10   that?
11             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
12             MR. EARL:  Grounds?
13             MS. PONZOLI:  Well, I guess unless he is
14        talking about Everglades crayfish, I'm not sure
15        Mr. Rhoads would be the one to answer that
16        question.
17   BY MR. EARL:
18       Q.    You may answer, sir.
19       A.    Could you repeat the question, please?
20             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
21              was read by the reporter.)
22             THE WITNESS:  I am comfortable in
23        responding in general terms.
24   BY MR. EARL:
25       Q.    In terms of Everglades restoration issues.

                                                 228

 1       A.    That the ecosystem in that area has adapted
 2   to the shorter hydroperiod condition.  Both the flora
 3   and the fauna currently existing in that area are the
 4   components that you would expect to find under a
 5   shortened hydroperiod condition, rather than the
 6   lengthier hydroperiod condition that existed
 7   historically in those areas.
 8       Q.    So you're aware of no adverse ecological
 9   effects from the shortened hydroperiod in 2B and 3B?
10       A.    No, I did not say that.
11             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
12   BY MR. EARL:
13       Q.    Okay, sir.  What adverse effects are you
14   aware of, sir?
15       A.    Again, responding in general terms, the
16   productivity of a shorter hydroperiod marsh in the
17   Everglades is generally less than the productivity of
18   a longer hydroperiod marsh, so in general terms, the
19   shortened, abbreviated hydroperiod of those areas
20   contributes to less production than the normal
21   Everglades habitat would, and that I would consider
22   to be an adverse impact.
23       Q.    Any other adverse impacts?
24       A.    There may very well be other adverse
25   impacts.  I have not studied that issue recently or

                                                 229

 1   put in any serious thought or consideration on it.
 2       Q.    Okay.  You talked about the cutting off of
 3   sheet flow in the northern portion of Conservation
 4   Area 3; correct?
 5       A.    Correct.
 6       Q.    What are the adverse ecological impacts of
 7   that, sir?
 8       A.    In general terms, one of the most severe
 9   impacts is the increased occurrence of fire in that
10   habitat under the shortened hydroperiod condition.
11   The area tends to dry out sooner, the soil profile of
12   peat tends to have less soil moisture during the fire
13   season, and as a result, as the peat tends to burn,
14   the perimeters of tree islands tend to burn, and that
15   alteration of the habitat is essentially irrevocable
16   in human time frames.
17       Q.    Irrevocable, meaning irreversible?
18       A.    Irreversible.
19       Q.    Increased occurrence of fire.  What other
20   adverse impacts?
21       A.    I believe there are other impacts, but I
22   haven't considered that issue in depth lately and
23   haven't thought that through --
24       Q.    Okay.
25       A.    -- at length.

                                                 230

 1       Q.    Any vegetative changes up there that you
 2   are aware of?
 3       A.    Yes, one could expect vegetative changes to
 4   occur in response to the shortened hydroperiod, and
 5   faunal changes also changing in the animal population
 6   is in response to an abbreviated hydroperiod.
 7       Q.    Has sawgrass been replaced in that area?
 8             MS. BIRCH:  Mr. Earl, I just need a
 9        clarification.  Are you asking Mr. Rhoads these
10        questions related to overall Everglades
11        Restoration or are you asking him as a
12        scientist?
13             MR. EARL:  I'm asking him in his capacity
14        as the Everglades Restoration Coordinator.
15        Whatever he knows.  The kinds of things he tells
16        the board every month and says at workshops.
17             THE WITNESS:  I need a repeat on the
18        question, please.
19             MR. EARL:  Would you read back the last
20        question, please?
21             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
22              was read by the reporter.)
23             THE WITNESS:  Based upon my last overflight
24        in that area, sawgrass continues to be the
25        dominant vegetation in that area; however, the

                                                 231

 1        sawgrass does not exhibit the vigor that one
 2        would expect in a longer hydroperiod Everglades
 3        habitat.
 4   BY MR. EARL:
 5       Q.    My question, I think, was a little bit
 6   different.  Has sawgrass been replaced, to your
 7   knowledge?
 8       A.    Been replaced by what?
 9       Q.    By other vegetation.
10       A.    By other vegetation?
11             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
12             MR. EARL:  Grounds?
13             MS. PONZOLI:  I think it is sort of vague.
14        I think you might want to quantify it or qualify
15        it somehow, Mr. Earl.  It is your question.
16             THE WITNESS:  Could you restate the
17        question for me.
18   BY MR. EARL:
19       Q.    Sure.  We were talking about the northern
20   end of Water Conservation Area 3 when you said there
21   had been a cutoff of sheet flow as a result of the
22   project, and I'm asking you whether sawgrass has been
23   replaced.  You responded to me that you thought
24   sawgrass was still dominant, but it was not as robust
25   as you might otherwise expect.

                                                 232

 1       A.    Yes, sir.
 2       Q.    And I was asking you could you please
 3   respond more specifically to my question regarding
 4   has sawgrass in that area been replaced by other
 5   vegetation, to your knowledge?
 6       A.    It depends on the specific area in
 7   question.  On the area in the vicinity of structures
 8   S-339 and 340, which are the dividing structures, the
 9   Miami Canal, has more cattail than it had prior to
10   the construction of those structures.  There is
11   directly adjacent to them -- cattail in that area
12   appears to have replaced sawgrass, based upon my
13   overflights and my recollection of the vegetation in
14   the area.  I think generally in the northern end of
15   Conservation Area 3A there has been, at least to some
16   degree, a transition of vegetation from sawgrass to
17   brush.
18       Q.    Myrtle, for example?
19       A.    Myrtle, willow, the more woody species
20   typical of more terrestrial habitat.
21       Q.    And would you anticipate that would be a
22   consequence of the drying out of the area?
23       A.    Yes.  Yes.  Probably.
24       Q.    Does the District, to your knowledge, have
25   any numbers regarding the aerial extent of that

                                                 233

 1   displacement?
 2       A.    They may.  I'm not aware of specific
 3   numbers on aerial displacement.
 4       Q.    Okay.  Apart from you being aware of
 5   specific numbers, who would have that information at
 6   the District?
 7       A.    I would have to guess at that, Counselor.
 8       Q.    Well, your informed judgment based on your
 9   years at the District, sir.
10       A.    Brent Moll may have that information, Ken
11   Rutchey may have that information.
12       Q.    Have any studies been done up there, to
13   your knowledge, of this phenomenon?
14       A.    Yes, there have been.
15       Q.    Would you describe those; who did them,
16   when?
17       A.    Sometime in the late 1970's a then-employee
18   of the Water Management District, a biologist, Gary
19   Pesnell, was assigned the task of examining
20   vegetative changes in Conservation Area 3A,
21   particularly with regard to the overdrainage of the
22   northern end of Conservation Area 3A.  Studies were
23   designed to document the precondition, before
24   construction, of S-339 and 340, and to follow up
25   after the construction of those facilities to

                                                 234

 1   determine the effectiveness of those two structures
 2   in alleviating the hydroperiod problem in that area.
 3       Q.    Any other studies you are aware of more
 4   recent?
 5       A.    Not that I am aware of, no.
 6       Q.    Okay.  And you have no idea of the order of
 7   magnitude of the displacement?
 8             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
 9             MS. BIRCH:  Object.  Asked and answered.
10   BY MR. EARL:
11       Q.    Your answer, sir?
12       A.    Quantitatively, I can't respond on that
13   one.
14       Q.    Okay.  Any other adverse ecological effects
15   that you are aware of in the northern component of
16   Water Conservation Area 3 as a result of the cutoff
17   of sheeting?
18       A.    None that I can think of at this time.
19       Q.    Okay, sir.  Now, you mentioned that there
20   was a lesser but a comparable problem in the northern
21   part of Water Conservation Area 1; correct?
22       A.    Correct.
23       Q.    And what specifically does that result
24   from?
25       A.    The problem in the northern portion of

                                                 235

 1   Conservation Area 1 is more a problem of the borrow
 2   canal system adjacent to the marsh at the northern
 3   apex both precluding the overland flow of water into
 4   the area and draining water out of the area.  Because
 5   of the difference in the surface water profile in the
 6   canal system and the ground elevation, the area at
 7   the northern apex simply does not have standing water
 8   on the ground to the length of time it would were the
 9   canal system not there.
10       Q.    That has resulted in an adverse ecological
11   consequences?
12       A.    I would characterize the shift from more
13   high direction vegetation to the more terrestrial
14   vegetation as being an adverse shift, yes.
15       Q.    What is high direction vegetation?  Is that
16   sawgrass?
17       A.    The wetlands vegetation that was there
18   previously.
19       Q.    Would that include sawgrass?
20       A.    That would include sawgrass, white water
21   lily, the wetlands assemblages, wet prairie
22   assemblages that probably inhabited that area.
23       Q.    Okay.  And that has been supplanted, sir,
24   by more terrestrial species, for example?
25       A.    Pine trees exist in the areas.

                                                 236

 1       Q.    Other types?
 2       A.    Brush, myrtle, willow.
 3       Q.    What is the relative size of this portion
 4   of the northern area?  Is it the apex area of
 5   Conservation Area 1?  Your answer is yes, sir?  She
 6   needs to hear it.
 7       A.    I'm thinking.  I'd say roughly the
 8   northernmost 500 to 1500 acres of Conservation Area
 9   1.
10       Q.    Again, have there been studies of this
11   change?
12       A.    Not to my knowledge, no.
13       Q.    Is there a comparable effect other than in
14   the apex around the perimeter of these interior
15   canals as you go south in Water Conservation Area 1?
16             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.  May I
17        hear that question back again, please.
18             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
19              was read by the reporter.)
20             THE WITNESS:  In some areas, yes, there is.
21   BY MR. EARL:
22       Q.    Okay, sir.  Which areas are those?
23       A.    Generally in the northern half of the area
24   where the canal water level tends to be below ground
25   level more often than it does at the lower elevation

                                                 237

 1   middle and southern portions of Conservation Area 3.
 2   Those peripheral drainage effects are evident in that
 3   northern area.
 4       Q.    Would you have any idea of the acreage that
 5   would be involved in this?
 6       A.    Not really, no.
 7       Q.    Okay, sir.  And do I understand you to say
 8   primarily in the northern half of where the ground
 9   water, where the canals are lower than the ground
10   water level?  Also do I understand correctly when I
11   understand that in the southern half, as these canals
12   proceed further south down towards the S-10
13   structures, there are also some localized conditions
14   similar to this?
15       A.    No.  In contrast, in the southern area, the
16   converse is true much of the time.  Because of the
17   drainage effect of the peripheral borrow canals, the
18   water tends to flow to the lower elevations of the
19   southern portion of the Conservation Area 1, pool,
20   and actually have an extended hydroperiod down in
21   that area, because -- you can think of it as the
22   water in the canal system supporting the longer
23   hydroperiod in the lower elevation lands in the
24   southern portion of the pool.
25       Q.    You say the pool.  Is that the pool behind

                                                 238

 1   the S-10 structures?
 2       A.    The pool is a hydraulic engineer's term
 3   basically referring to the water level within the
 4   entire area.  Within the conservation area, water
 5   level is called the pool.
 6       Q.    And what causes that phenomenon?
 7       A.    As I mentioned, the canal system tends to
 8   drain water from the higher elevation areas to the
 9   north and move water to the lower elevation areas in
10   the southern portion of the area.  The ground
11   elevation is lower in the southern portion of
12   Conservation Area 1 than it is in the northern
13   portion.
14       Q.    This, in my terms, water flows downhill;
15   would that be correct?
16       A.    That is correct, Counselor.
17       Q.    What effects, if any, do the existence of
18   the S-10 structures have on Water Conservation Area
19   Number 1 in terms of hydroperiod as opposed to
20   pre-project?
21       A.    Because the structures are only open during
22   periods of time when the water level is above the
23   regulation schedule of Conservation Area 1, and
24   because the structures are closed the rest of the
25   time generally, the structures have the effect, along

                                                 239

 1   with the levee, of impounding water upstream.
 2       Q.    How large an area would this encompass?
 3       A.    At least several thousand acres.
 4       Q.    Which are inundated as a result of the many
 5   levees in the S-10 structures; correct?
 6             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
 7             MS. BIRCH:  What is the question?
 8             THE WITNESS:  Could you clarify the
 9        question?
10   BY MR. EARL:
11       Q.    Sure.  You said several thousand acres in
12   response to my question, and I am just trying to
13   understand, that are inundated as a result of the
14   S-10 and the levees?
15       A.    I think it would be more accurate to state
16   that they have a longer hydroperiod.  Yes, they are
17   inundated much of the time, but they do go dry on
18   occasion, so I think it would be more correct to
19   characterize that as having a longer hydroperiod.
20       Q.    The water is there longer and over a larger
21   area because of those structures in the levees;
22   correct, sir?
23       A.    That is correct.
24       Q.    What was the condition in that area, from
25   your understanding, of pre-project conditions prior

                                                 240

 1   to the construction of the levee and the S-10
 2   structures?
 3       A.    Counselor, I don't really fell comfortable
 4   responding to that question.  It's been a long time
 5   since I have read some of the early accounts of
 6   vegetation in that area and it's been years since I
 7   have reviewed those reports.
 8       Q.    Well, I ask in terms of restoration issues.
 9   You're dealing with the restoration of other areas of
10   the Everglades, and I wondered what that was like
11   pre-project.  You have no idea?
12       A.    Well, in general terms, it has probably had
13   a shorter hydroperiod.  In other words, the ponding
14   effect that we see from the current facilities almost
15   certainly did not exist because the levee was not
16   there to create those effects.  So in that area,
17   there was probably lower peak stages and potentially
18   a shorter hydroperiod.
19       Q.    Was there also sheet flow in that area?
20       A.    Yes, almost certainly there was sheet flow
21   flowing south.
22       Q.    Anybody at District are you aware of who is
23   familiar with pre-project conditions this that area?
24       A.    Not that I am aware of.  Yes.  Steve Davis
25   is probably the most knowledgeable person we

                                                 241

 1   currently have on the staff regarding that area.
 2       Q.    You don't mean to imply Steve Davis was
 3   there on the grounds prior to project.
 4       A.    No.  Nor have I meant to imply that I was
 5   there prior to the project.
 6       Q.    I was more asking you in an old time with
 7   the District, who was there when they did the
 8   engineering and who was out on the site?
 9       A.    The only one I knew who filled that
10   category was Walt Dineen, and Walt is no longer with
11   us.
12       Q.    Now, if you can, I would like you to go to
13   the S-10 structures and south of those structures.  I
14   assume those structures and the levee cut off the
15   sheet flow into Water Conservation Area 2; is that
16   correct?
17       A.    That is correct.
18       Q.    Is there anywhere I can go, to your
19   knowledge, that would show the pre-project flows in
20   that area, hydrologic contours?
21       A.    I doubt if the pre-project flows themselves
22   exist, no.
23       Q.    From your general understanding of
24   pre-project Everglades conditions, would you have
25   expected that area to be one subject to broad ranging

                                                 242

 1   sheet flow?
 2       A.    Again, I believe I mentioned this earlier,
 3   but I may not have.  It depends on how far back you
 4   go.  Prior to the C&SF project, the Everglades
 5   Drainage District had constructed the primary
 6   backbone canals; the West Palm Beach, the Hillsboro
 7   the North New River, Miami canals.  Those facilities
 8   that were completed primarily during the '20's
 9   provided the first change, first alteration that
10   occurred in those areas.  Since there is very little
11   quantified about how the system responded during that
12   period and the instrumentation really did not go in
13   until after the C&SF project was implemented, I need
14   to point out that caveat in our discussion on all of
15   the facilities so far.  Pre-man's influence I think
16   was my understanding of your question.
17       Q.    Well, yes, it was.  I am glad you clarified
18   that.  As I understand, this District is the
19   successor agency to the agencies that constructed
20   those canals; is that correct?
21       A.    I believe, in a sense, that is correct,
22   yes.
23       Q.    And then am I also correct in assuming when
24   the federal project was designed and constructed, the
25   Federal Government revised and deepened and otherwise

                                                 243

 1   substantially modified those canals and their
 2   utilization?
 3       A.    That is true.
 4             MS. PONZOLI:  May I hear the question,
 5        please?
 6             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
 7              was read by the reporter.)
 8             THE WITNESS:  That is generally correct,
 9        yes.
10   BY MR. EARL:
11       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, how are you going to go about
12   fulfilling your mandate and this agency's mandates of
13   Everglades restoration in that area?  How are you
14   going to determine what the base line was in terms of
15   sheet flow, for example, and water flows?
16             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.  I don't
17        think you have established what his mandate is,
18        Mr. Earl.
19             MS. BIRCH:  I join that objection.
20   BY MR. EARL:
21       Q.    What is your mandate in terms of Everglades
22   restoration, Mr. Rhoads?
23             MS. BIRCH:  Are you asking what the
24        District mandate is or his mandate is and the
25        role of his office performance, Mr. Earl?

                                                 244

 1             MR. EARL:  Obviously his office is
 2        coordinating restoration of the Everglades, and
 3        the District is under a requirement of law to
 4        restore the Everglades, as I understand, and I'm
 5        asking him as the director of that operation,
 6        what it is.
 7             THE WITNESS:  In simplest terms, it is the
 8        development, modification and implementation of
 9        the Everglades SWIM Plan.  The organization is
10        using that as the vehicle for the restoration of
11        the Everglades.  In more detailed terms, the
12        restoration of the Everglades involves
13        overcoming three general classes of problems:
14        Number one, the water quality problem; number
15        two, the hydroperiod problem; and number three,
16        the exotic species problem, particularly
17        Melaleuca invasion in the Everglades.
18   BY MR. EARL:
19       Q.    And don't you also have a requirement to
20   restore the Everglades to its natural hydroperiod?
21       A.    No.  To the best of my knowledge, that is
22   not a mandate of the organization of the agency.
23       Q.    What is your understanding of the
24   requirement in terms of hydroperiod?
25       A.    In terms of hydroperiod, my understanding

                                                 245

 1   is that in general terms, it is the correction of
 2   certainly the most severe of the hydroperiod problems
 3   that have been created in the Everglades.  The exact
 4   goal, how far to carry that correction of hydroperiod
 5   problems, has not, to my knowledge, been clearly
 6   illustrated.  We have not quantified that goal,
 7   developed that goal with precision at this point in
 8   our planning.
 9       Q.    Okay.  I would like to go back to the
10   delineation of these most severe hydroperiod
11   problems.  I presume we have been talking about some
12   of them now.
13       A.    Yeah.
14       Q.    And we were dealing with the Water
15   Conservation Area 2 immediately south of the S-10
16   structures.  Could you explain to me what the
17   hydroperiod impacts have been, the results -- excuse
18   me.  Let me start over again.
19             Could you explain to me what adverse
20   ecological effects the construction and design of the
21   Federal project have had on that area?
22             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
23             MR. EARL:  Grounds?
24             MS. PONZOLI:  Compound question.  I think
25        it assumes a prioritization of hydroperiod

                                                 246

 1        problems that may or may not be accurate.  I
 2        can't recall from his testimony.  But it is a
 3        compound question.
 4             THE WITNESS:  Could you repeat the
 5        question?
 6             MR. EARL:  I'll be happy to state it again.
 7   BY MR. EARL:
 8       Q.    What, if any, adverse ecological effects
 9   are you aware of as a result of the design and
10   construction of the Federal project, specifically the
11   S-10 structures and connected levees, impacting with
12   Conservation Area 2A?
13       A.    What are the impacts of the structures and
14   the levees?  Number one, it is disruptive.  The
15   historical overland flow of water that occurred in
16   that area prior to construction of any facilities,
17   undoubtedly the current flow patterns are
18   substantially different.  Those facilities also
19   provide for the introduction of water coming in from
20   the S-5A and S-6 pump station flowing across the
21   marsh in contrast to water that, prior to man's
22   influence, flowed across the marsh and entered the
23   area.  In other words, on the northern upstream
24   adjacent side, there is currently a canal conveyance,
25   advancing canal, that brings water from other areas

                                                 247

 1   in contrast to the marsh that existed in that area
 2   historically.
 3       Q.    Those canals are part of the Federal
 4   project; correct?
 5       A.    That is correct.
 6       Q.    So we have talked about the cutting off the
 7   historical overland flow and we have talked about
 8   delivering these canal waters to the area that
 9   otherwise would have been disbursed over the
10   wetlands; correct?
11       A.    Correct.
12       Q.    Any other consequences in that area?
13       A.    Those are the primary ones in my mind
14   currently.
15       Q.    Now, those are the physical changes.  What
16   have been the ecological or biological impacts of
17   those changes, as you under them?
18             MS. PONZOLI:  Same objection as before.
19             MR. EARL:  What is that, Counselor?
20             MS. PONZOLI:  That he is really not an
21        ecologist specialist.  I don't object, you know,
22        to your asking him generally as a restoration
23        person, but if you are trying to as ascribe a
24        higher expertise, I think he disqualified
25        himself from that.

                                                 248

 1             THE WITNESS:  My general understanding is
 2        that the hydroperiod impacts in that northern
 3        area are very difficult to discern because of
 4        water quality impacts.  My general understanding
 5        is that the water quality impacts in that area
 6        are the dominant force that have affected,
 7        adversely affected, the area.
 8   BY MR. EARL:
 9       Q.    You haven't, or has anybody, to your
10   knowledge, weighted that or eliminated the
11   hydroperiod variable period there in terms of
12   analyzing those in that area?
13       A.    I believe Steve Davis has considered that
14   issue in some depth, yes.
15       Q.    As we sit here today, you are not aware of
16   any changes that have been made in the northern
17   portions of Water Conservation Area 2A as a result of
18   hydroperiod changes; is that correct?
19             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
20             THE WITNESS:  The geographic area is
21        important here.  Which area are you referring
22        to?
23   BY MR. EARL:
24       Q.    Well, let's talk about the area that is
25   called the nutrient enriched area to start with,

                                                 249

 1   immediately --
 2       A.    South of the S-10 structures.
 3       Q.    Any changes at all there vegetativewise
 4   caused by hydroperiod that you're aware of?
 5       A.    There may be changes caused by hydroperiod,
 6   but my understanding is that the predominant
 7   ecological changes, adverse changes, are a result of
 8   the nutrient loading that has occurred through the
 9   S-10 structures.
10       Q.    Was there any -- we talked the other day,
11   Mr. Rhoads, about the drawdowns in Water Conservation
12   Area 2A and you indicated to me those were primarily
13   in the southern portion; is that correct?
14       A.    Yeah.  The primary effects of those
15   drawdowns were in the southern portions of the area.
16       Q.    During the flooding of that area, the
17   increased hydroperiod of that area on the operation
18   of the Federal project, you indicated flocculent
19   materials became a problem.
20       A.    Yes, I did.
21       Q.    Okay.  Was there any flocculent material
22   generation in the northern end, the area that we are
23   talking about; the nutrient enriched area?
24       A.    I suspect there was; however, my
25   observational experience in the early '70's with Walt

                                                 250

 1   Dineen was based on the sloughs in the central
 2   portion of the area and southern portion of the area.
 3   It was in those sloughs where it was visually very
 4   evident of a formation of a flocculent material,
 5   generally in deeper water depth.  My recollection is
 6   in those areas that were commonly inundated by over
 7   two to three feet, those were the areas in the
 8   sloughs where you would find that loose sediment
 9   problem.
10       Q.    And what was the impact of that sediment
11   problem?
12       A.    In general terms, that form of sediment has
13   an adverse effect upon the benthic fauna in the
14   animals that live in the bottom.  A loose type of
15   substrate results in a different type of benthic
16   flora that is generally less desirable than the type
17   of benthic fauna -- excuse me -- fauna, benthic
18   fauna -- that you find on a harder substrate, which
19   is typical of the Everglades.  The types of animals
20   that are there, the numbers of animals that are
21   there, the chemistries of the sediments are different
22   under those sort of conditions than what you would
23   normally expect in the Everglades.
24       Q.    And that situation arises, in your
25   observations, in the central area when you had two or

                                                 251

 1   three feet of water?
 2       A.    In the central and southern portion of the
 3   area where the water tended to pond and pool, yes.
 4       Q.    But you think there may have been some
 5   flocculent materials, some flocculent situations?
 6   Have you observed them in that area immediately to
 7   the south?
 8       A.    It is certainly possible that at that time
 9   it did occur in the area.  I simply didn't observe
10   it.
11       Q.    As a result of the operation of the Federal
12   project and the inundation of that area, isn't it
13   also true tree islands were lost?
14       A.    In general terms, yes.  It probably is
15   better to say that rather than losing the tree
16   islands in terms of its elevation, the flora of the
17   tree islands was substantially altered by the
18   inundation.  In other words, trees were drowned out.
19   Loss of trees.
20       Q.    So the elevation remained, but the trees
21   were gone?
22       A.    That is essentially it, yeah, in many
23   cases.  Not in all cases, but in many cases.
24       Q.    And were there, in fact, tree islands in
25   the area that is now called the nutrient enriched

                                                 252

 1   area that were lost?
 2       A.    There may have been, but I don't remember
 3   that specifically.
 4       Q.    And were there any other vegetative changes
 5   there as a result of the inundation?
 6       A.    As I indicated earlier, I cannot separate
 7   the hydroperiod impacts from the water quality
 8   impacts in that area.
 9       Q.    Are you suggesting that the nutrients in
10   the waters in the central and southern portions of
11   the Water Conservation Area 2A were responsible for
12   the loss of the tree islands, the trees on the tree
13   islands?
14       A.    No.
15       Q.    So that wasn't nutrients, was it.  Sir?
16       A.    I don't understand the question.
17             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form;
18        narrative.
19   BY MR. EARL:
20       Q.    That wasn't nutrients that killed the tree
21   islands, was it, sir?
22       A.    No, in all likelihood, not.
23       Q.    Hydroperiod causes vegetative changes,
24   doesn't it, sir?  Hydroperiod changes cause
25   vegetative changes, do they not, sir?

                                                 253

 1       A.    Changes in inundation, hydroperiod changes
 2   can result in changes in vegetation.  Yes, as a
 3   general statement, that is correct.
 4       Q.    And in your experience with the District,
 5   you have seen such changes; correct?
 6       A.    Yes, I have.
 7       Q.    If we can, let's go back to the north of
 8   the S-10 structures, the impounded area in Water
 9   Conservation Area 1.  Would you anticipate flocculent
10   material exists there?
11       A.    Yes, in all likelihood.
12       Q.    Would you expect if it exists there, it has
13   resulted in changes in the benthic fauna, as it did
14   in Water Conservation Area 2?
15       A.    If it exists there, yes, it would result in
16   changes in the benthic fauna.
17       Q.    Anybody at the District study that?
18       A.    Not in that area that I remember, no.
19   There may have been work done by either Turzak
20   (phonetic) or Reeder back in the '70's or '80's.  I
21   know there was work done south of the S-10 structures
22   in 2A.  I don't remember whether there was work done
23   north of the S-10 structures.  There may well have
24   been, but my memory fails me on the details on that.
25       Q.    And would you expect that flocculent

                                                 254

 1   material was generated in the area south of the 10
 2   structures in what is now called the Nutrient
 3   Enrichment Area during periods of high inundation?
 4       A.    That is possible that it was, yes.  Quite
 5   possible.
 6       Q.    And certainly, sir, would you expect if
 7   such materials were generated, there would be a less
 8   desirable benthic fauna resulting?
 9       A.    Under those conditions, yes.
10       Q.    Do you know whether that's been studied?
11       A.    There has been investigations carried out
12   of the benthic fauna south of the S-10 structures,
13   yes.
14       Q.    My question, I think, sir, related
15   specifically to the impact of flocculent materials
16   from water depth on those organisms.
17       A.    Normally when you sample benthic fauna,
18   you'll also make observations regarding substrate
19   condition, so any sampling of the benthos normally
20   results in collection of data regarding the condition
21   of the substrate.  With regard to specifically
22   studying the relationship between benthos and the
23   composition of the sediments, I don't know.
24       Q.    We talked about the sediment problem caused
25   by the inundations from project operations in Water

                                                 255

 1   Conservation Area 2.  We talked about the loss of the
 2   trees and the tree islands.  What other consequences
 3   were there from the sustained inundation?
 4       A.    There was a loss of sawgrass associated
 5   with the inundation first noted by Dineen in the late
 6   '60's and it continued in the early '70's.  The
 7   sawgrass on the periphery of the wet water lily
 8   sloughs did not do well there.  It tended to die back
 9   on the periphery of the sloughs.  And there was clear
10   evidence with the dead sawgrass Combs during that
11   period.  And I remember Walt Dineen clearly
12   attributing that to the extended duration of the
13   area.
14       Q.    You, yourself, during this period were out
15   there in airboats observing this, weren't you?
16       A.    On occasion, yes.  Yes.
17       Q.    Has that ever been quantified; the aerial
18   extent of that sawgrass that was lost?
19       A.    No, I don't believe it has.
20       Q.    Have you had any estimate?
21       A.    I have no data.
22       Q.    Any estimate?
23       A.    No.  That would be very difficult to
24   estimate.
25       Q.    Okay.  Loss of sawgrass on the periphery of

                                                 256

 1   the water lily sloughs.  Any other adverse impacts of
 2   that inundation?
 3       A.    Wading bird feeding.  The extent in the
 4   hydroperiod, the constant inundation provided a
 5   habitat that was not particularly conducive to wading
 6   bird feeding.
 7       Q.    Meaning nesting and feeding patterns?
 8       A.    The feeding patterns.  Most wading bird
 9   feeding proceeds on a residing water level that tends
10   to concentrate the organism.  If you don't have
11   receding water levels and you have relatively deep
12   water, you generally do not have wading birds
13   feeding, and that was the condition that existed
14   during much of the '60's.
15       Q.    And the loss of the wading birds is
16   comparable to the phenomenon, I assume, that is
17   evidenced in Everglades National Park because of the
18   hydroperiod situation down there?
19             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
20             MS. BIRCH:  What was that question?  Could
21        you read that back?
22             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
23              was read by the reporter.)
24             THE WITNESS:  The ornithologists and
25        hibernocologists that I have talked with and

                                                 257

 1        interacted with over the years feel that the
 2        wading bird changes in South Florida and the
 3        park are, in all likelihood, a result of habitat
 4        loss rather than specific changes in a given
 5        area.  For example, the construction of the east
 6        coast containment levee from S-5A south down to
 7        Homestead cut off a very significant portion of
 8        the peripheral Everglades.  The construction of
 9        the containment levees for the Everglades
10        Agricultural Area enclosed 500 to 700,000 acres
11        of what was Everglades.  The loss of that
12        habitat is generally considered to be the
13        primary cause for the wading bird reductions.
14   BY MR. EARL:
15       Q.    But I am talking Everglades National Park.
16   Are you not aware of the reported problems caused by
17   high waters down there in wading bird colonies?
18             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.  You are
19        discussing facts that aren't in this record,
20        Counselor.
21             May we hear that question back again,
22        please?
23             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
24              was read by the reporter.)
25             THE WITNESS:  There have been problems,

                                                 258

 1        significant problems, within Everglades National
 2        Park with regard to wading bird nesting and
 3        breeding.  I don't feel that I have the
 4        expertise to talk about the causes of those
 5        problems.  My general recollection is that
 6        there's probably a variety of causes for those
 7        problems, not necessarily an extended
 8        hydroperiod.
 9   BY MR. EARL:
10       Q.    Okay.  Wading bird.  What else did the
11   project's inundation with WCA-2 result in?
12       A.    I think we have touched on the major
13   effects that came to mind.  There may be others that
14   I don't recollect at this point in time, but I
15   believe we have touched on the major ones.
16       Q.    Okay, sir.  We are talking about major
17   hydroperiod problems caused by the project.  We have
18   dealt with WCA-2A, an inundation, we have dealt with
19   the 10 structures.  Let's go to the 11 structures.
20   What happened there, if anything?
21       A.    Could you be more specific, please?  Your
22   question?
23       Q.    Sure.  You have been describing impacts the
24   project has had on the hydroperiod and then telling
25   me your understanding of the ecological consequences

                                                 259

 1   of that.  I'm asking you to move your attention now
 2   down to the 11 structures, both the north and south
 3   of them, and tell me what hydrological impacts and
 4   the ecological consequences are.
 5             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form; compound
 6        question.
 7             MR. EARL:  If you would like, Counsel, I
 8        would be happy to break it down.  We'll be here
 9        longer, but that's your choice.
10             Tell me, Mr. Rhoads, please tell me and
11        identify the hydrologic impacts of the Central
12        and Southern Florida Flood Control Project
13        design and construction in the area north and
14        south of the 11 structures.
15             MS. PONZOLI:  Same objection.
16             THE WITNESS:  In the southern apex of
17        Conservation Area 2A, there has been in general
18        a ponding in that apex because of the operations
19        of the S-11 structures and because of the
20        surface elevations of the 2A Conservation Area
21        2A.  That change in inundation, that extended
22        inundation, that ponding for a number of years
23        during the '70's resulted in a different type of
24        vegetation than occurred several miles north of
25        there.

                                                 260

 1   BY MR. EARL:
 2       Q.    Let me just ask you on that, sir --
 3       A.    Yes.
 4       Q.    -- what occurred several miles north of
 5   there?
 6       A.    As you move north from that area, you moved
 7   into sawgrass ridges and white water lily sloughs.
 8   However, in that area of extended inundation, for
 9   some reason, at least during much of 1970's, the
10   primary vegetation was eleocharis cellulosa.  For
11   some reason, the vegetation was different in that
12   area.
13       Q.    As a result of the inundation, sir?
14       A.    Perhaps.  The precise causal relationships
15   I don't think have ever been determined for that.
16       Q.    Excuse me.  How large an area was that?
17       A.    At least several hundred acres.
18       Q.    Okay.
19       A.    The area south of the S-11 structures has
20   been substantially impacted by the canal system that
21   was constructed in that area.
22       Q.    Part of the Federal project?
23       A.    Part of the Federal project, yes.  During
24   times of discharge out of the S-11 structures, stages
25   in that area were probably higher than typical, the

                                                 261

 1   rate of changes generally higher than one would have
 2   expected it to have been historically; however, the
 3   canal system in that area, the borrow canals
 4   primarily, have the general effect of moving the
 5   water away from that portion downstream of the S-11
 6   structures and conveying that water downstream to
 7   more southerly portions of Conservation Area 3A.  So
 8   in a manner somewhat analogous to the impacts of
 9   borrow canal system on northern Conservation Area 1,
10   the canal system in that portion of Conservation Area
11   3 tends to move water out of that area in what would
12   have been a much higher rate than what occurred prior
13   to construction of the area of the canal system.
14       Q.    Was there a drying out effect there?
15       A.    More northerly, north of the S-111
16   structures, yes, that phenomena that I described
17   earlier regarding Conservation Area 3A occurs in that
18   area just to the west and south of the S-150
19   structures, S-7 pump station.  Down in the area just
20   downstream from the S-11 structures, yes, to some
21   extent there is an overdrainage because of the canal
22   system.  The canal system tends to move the water
23   down into the vicinity of that, of the intersection
24   of the Miami Canal with the Snake Creek Canal, down
25   in the vicinity of the S-9 pump station, in that area

                                                 262

 1   of the west.
 2       Q.    Now, let me just go back a minute.  North
 3   of the S-11 structures, in terms of impacts of the
 4   project, you told me first -- and this is what I
 5   first understood -- there was an increased inundation
 6   immediately north, and that caused a change to
 7   eleocharin from sawgrass in the '70's, and you just
 8   told me about another area around to the north of the
 9   S-11 around S-150 where you have the opposite; dry
10   out.  Correct?
11       A.    Yeah.  What I indicated was in the area to
12   the south and west of the S-150 structures, the
13   problem that I had previously discussed about the
14   overdrainage of the northern portion of Conservation
15   Area 3A occurred within that area.
16       Q.    Okay.  Now, south, the borrow canals move
17   the water down, and you had a drying out effect,
18   perhaps not as great, and that moved that water down
19   where it otherwise wouldn't have moved down into the
20   area of the S-9 structures; correct?
21       A.    That is correct.  The L-38 west borrow
22   canal, L-68, L-68A borrow canal, leading down to the
23   L-67 borrow canal, has tended to drain that northern
24   portion of Conservation Area 3A and tended to move
25   the water down into that complex to the west of the

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 1   S-9 structures.  Structure.
 2       Q.    And what were the, to your understanding,
 3   the ecological consequences of that overdrainage
 4   south of the S-11 structures?
 5       A.    No, the overdrainage occurred north of
 6   Alligator Alley in that northern portion of
 7   Conservation Area 3A.
 8       Q.    Tell me about that one.
 9       A.    That is the area that we discussed earlier
10   that was influenced by interception of overland flow
11   where L-5 is now.  No overland flow coming in there
12   because of the levee 5; okay?  And then overdrainage
13   because of the L-38 west and the L-68 borrow canals
14   in that area moving water out of that portion of
15   Conservation Area 3A north of Alligator Alley.  The
16   farther south in that area, the less the impact of
17   that is noticeable, has been noticeable over the
18   years.  But in the northern portions of that area,
19   particularly just to the southwest of S-150, the
20   vegetative response to that phenomenon has generally
21   been clear over the years.
22       Q.    To the southwest, S-150?
23       A.    Of S-150.
24       Q.    Southwest.  Okay.  How large an area was
25   that?  Can you identify that?

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 1       A.    No, I did not estimate that.
 2       Q.    Your best estimate.
 3       A.    Somewhere between 50 and 100 square miles.
 4       Q.    100 square miles?
 5       A.    Yeah.  Receive some effect of that altered
 6   hydroperiod.
 7       Q.    Okay.  Describe the effects that you are
 8   talking about from that altered hydrology.
 9       A.    We previously discussed the northern
10   portion of Conservation Area 3A and the impacts
11   there.
12       Q.    Yes.
13       A.    Do you want me to go over that again?
14       Q.    With reference to this particular area,
15   yes.
16       A.    Well, the effects I am talking about here --
17             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  Is this
18        question only as to hydrology, Mr. Earl, or is
19        it hydrology in any other combination?
20             MR. EARL:  We are asking the effects of the
21        draining, overdrainage, in the area, drying out
22        of the area, that the witness has described.
23             MS. PONZOLI:  So it is only as to
24        hydrology, if I understand the question
25        accurately.

                                                 265

 1             MS. BIRCH:  Do you understand the question,
 2        Mr. Rhoads?
 3             THE WITNESS:  Yes, I believe I do.  The
 4        general effects of the altered hydrology,
 5        particularly the overdrainage in this area, has
 6        been -- the most obvious has been the shift in
 7        vegetation that I described earlier for this
 8        area in general, which was from to a brushy,
 9        more mesagrazeric type of vegetation.
10   BY MR. EARL:
11       Q.    From what?
12       A.    From the native sawgrass in the area with
13   occasional wet prairie community to a more
14   terrestrial like community with myrtles, baccahrus,
15   pigweed, willow, that sort of vegetation.
16       Q.    Has this impact been studied, documented?
17       A.    I believe it's been documented in Walt
18   Dineen's field notes.  He was the one who first made
19   these observations.  Let me see.  Let me see.  It may
20   have been documented at least in general terms in
21   Zaffke's technical publication of the vegetation of
22   Conservation Area 3A.  That was a District technical
23   publication by Michael Zaffke.
24       Q.    Dated what period of time?
25       A.    Circa '79, late '70's, early '80's.

                                                 266

 1       Q.    Has this condition been alleviated in any
 2   modifications in the interim or does it still
 3   continue?
 4       A.    To a degree, the construction of the divide
 5   structures S-339 is 340 has lengthened the
 6   hydroperiod at least to a degree in this area.  Those
 7   structures in the Miami Canal offset the overdrainage
 8   effects of the Miami Canal on that area, and that
 9   extends to some distance to the east there.
10       Q.    Well, how much of the 50 or 100 acres,
11   square miles, would you say were remedied by that?
12       A.    I really couldn't estimate that with any
13   accuracy, Counsel.
14       Q.    Still a problem, isn't it, down there?
15       A.    Yes, but it is not as big a problem as it
16   was, because in addition to the S-339 and 340, the
17   conversion of the old Alligator Alley to I-75
18   resulted in a correction of the number of the flow
19   problems in that portion of the area.  The borrow
20   canals for the old Alligator Alley tended to
21   contribute to that overdrainage in the area.  With
22   the redesign of Alligator Alley and the construction
23   of I-75, measures were incorporated which we believe
24   have ameliorated some of that problem.
25       Q.    Well, how would you characterize it, in

                                                 267

 1   consideration of Everglades Restoration, how would
 2   you characterize the significance of that problem
 3   today, given these changes?
 4       A.    The northern portion of Conservation Area
 5   2A still has, in my opinion, the predominant, the
 6   largest single hydroperiod problem mainly because of
 7   the --
 8       Q.    2A, did you say?
 9       A.    I'm sorry.  3A.  Conservation Area 3A.
10   Mainly because of the lack of inflow from the north.
11   The north portion of Conservation Area 3A simply does
12   not get surface water inflow, sheet flow, from the
13   north.
14       Q.    And what in the SWIM plan is designed to
15   remedy that?
16       A.    The SWIM plan has provisions for dealing
17   with the hydroperiod problem.  It lays it out,
18   identifies it as a problem, indicates that it will be
19   dealt with in subsequent drafts of the SWIM plan.
20       Q.    I am talking about this specific 3A that
21   you have just described.  Is there anything, any
22   remediation or any remedial measures identified?
23       A.    Specific remedial measures, no, I don't
24   believe so.
25       Q.    Are any specific remedial measures analyzed

                                                 268

 1   or evaluated in the SWIM plan for this situation?
 2       A.    No, I don't believe so.  The SWIM plan
 3   states that that will be carried out at some point in
 4   the future.
 5       Q.    All right.  Okay.  We were working our way
 6   down.  We were south of the 11 structures.  If we can
 7   go back there, we talked about the overdrainage,
 8   which is being routed down to S-9; correct?
 9       A.    Into that area, portion, of Conservation
10   Area 3A west of the S-9 pump station.  From that
11   point, water is generally conveyed, primary
12   conveyance is down L-67A, down that borrow canal on
13   the west side of the L-67A levee.
14       Q.    What does the Broward County Master Plan
15   say about that pump station?  Do you know?  You were
16   going to look into that at one time, weren't you?
17       A.    Not to my recollection, Counselor.
18       Q.    Is there a drainage District down there?
19       A.    There are a number of drainage districts in
20   Broward County, yes.
21       Q.    Does the county have a plan, a drainage
22   plan, as part of their comp plan or otherwise for
23   utilizing the S-9?
24       A.    Could you repeat that question for me.
25       Q.    Sure.  Would you read back the question.

                                                 269

 1             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
 2              was read by the reporter.)
 3             MS. BIRCH:  If you know, Mr. Rhoads.
 4             THE WITNESS:  It's been many years since I
 5        have reviewed the Broward County Land Use Plan,
 6        Counselor, and I do not remember any of the
 7        specifics of that portion of the plan.
 8   BY MR. EARL:
 9       Q.    Well, what are you aware of?  What is the
10   drainage basin for S-9 and what increasing
11   utilization of that are you aware of, if any?
12       A.    The drainage basin for the S-9 pump station
13   extends eastward to approximately the S-13A divide
14   structure, which separates the C-11 basin into an
15   eastern and western basin.
16       Q.    And does it extend down south of the S-13A
17   divide?
18       A.    Yes.  It is roughly a trapezoidal watershed
19   with the S-13A representing basically the eastern
20   extent of the western C-11 basin.
21       Q.    Am I correct in understanding that is an
22   area of increasing development in Broward County?
23       A.    It has been for the past 20 years, yes.
24       Q.    Do you know what the increased demands are
25   going to be on that, utilizing it for backpumping?

                                                 270

 1       A.    Generally, the development permitted
 2   through a regulatory program provides for limiting
 3   the post runoff, post development runoff, to
 4   predevelopment rates, so the --
 5       Q.    Does S-9 backpump at all now, do you know?
 6       A.    Oh, yes it does.  Yes.
 7       Q.    Does it drain residential areas?
 8       A.    Yes.  Generally low density residential
 9   areas.
10       Q.    Does that go into the marsh there?
11       A.    I beg your pardon?
12       Q.    Does that go into the marsh?  Does it go
13   into the Everglades there?
14       A.    It goes into the Everglades, yes.  There is
15   a get away canal from S-9, and the water from the
16   pump station is pumped into the canal, and it does
17   interact with the marsh both there and in other
18   portions of Conservation Area 3A.
19       Q.    And are you concerned about increasing
20   trends of nutrients in nutrient concentrations in
21   that?
22             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
23             MR. EARL:  Grounds?
24             MS. PONZOLI:  I don't think you're clear.
25        Are you talking about S-9 increasing trends and

                                                 271

 1        S-9 concentrations of phosphorus?  Is that your
 2        question?
 3             MR. EARL:  I'm not going to answer.  Is
 4        that your objection?
 5             MS. PONZOLI:  My objection is your question
 6        is vague and unclear.
 7             MR. EARL:  Okay, fine.
 8   BY MR. EARL:
 9       Q.    Do you understand the question?
10       A.    No, I don't, Counsel.
11       Q.    Okay.  Would you read it back.
12             I'll rephrase it.
13             Do you anticipate, as part of your
14   Everglades restoration duties, that there will be
15   increasing trends of phosphorus concentrations in the
16   S-9 discharge?
17       A.    It is a potential source of concern.  It
18   tends to be a lesser source of concern because the
19   Biscayne aquifer in that area is -- the carbonaceous
20   material is quite close to the surface, so the
21   phosphorus concentrations that we have historically
22   experienced at S-9 have been quite low.  Because of
23   the nature of the substrate, the nature of that
24   watershed, it tends not to be a high source of
25   concern, at least in terms of nutrients coming into

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 1   the area.  How that watershed might develop in the
 2   future is a source of concern that needs to be dealt
 3   with in subsequent updates of the SWIM plan, yes.
 4       Q.    What is your understanding of phosphorus
 5   loading in the soils in that area?
 6       A.    In which area?
 7       Q.    The S-9 area.
 8       A.    In general, that watershed produces
 9   relatively low concentrations of phosphorus primarily
10   because of the edaphic conditions; the soils in that
11   area.  It has not, to the best of my recollection,
12   been characterized as a high nutrient source coming
13   into the Everglades.
14       Q.    Well, I'm asking you more, sir, if you're
15   aware of any phosphorus soil testing that has been
16   done in that area in terms of --
17       A.    In the C-11 basin?
18       Q.    In the area of S-9, sir.
19       A.    I'm sorry, I have lost the track here.  I
20   don't understand the question.
21       Q.    In the area of the S-9 discharges, okay,
22   are you aware of any phosphorus soil testing or
23   analysis that has been done?
24       A.    Oh.  I believe some has been done.  I'm not
25   personally familiar with it.  I have not reviewed

                                                 273

 1   that data.
 2       Q.    Who's done it?
 3       A.    I'm not sure.
 4       Q.    Someone at the District?
 5       A.    Yes.
 6       Q.    Steve Davis?
 7       A.    I'm not sure.
 8       Q.    Who would you ask to find out?
 9       A.    Marguerite Koch.
10       Q.    Okay.
11       A.    Perhaps.
12       Q.    Now, are there releases in that area from
13   District canals also into the marsh?
14       A.    I don't understand.
15       Q.    Does water get out of the District
16   conveyancing canals in the vicinity of S-9 out into
17   the marsh?
18       A.    Oh, yes.  Yes, it does.
19       Q.    Okay.
20       A.    Certainly in some areas where it is not
21   contained in the canal by an adjacent borrow mound.
22       Q.    Okay.  Moving, if you would like, to south
23   from S-9, that would be the easiest way, Mr. Rhoads,
24   let's continue and let's talk about adverse
25   hydroperiod impacts of the central and southern

                                                 274

 1   project on the Everglades.
 2       A.    In general terms, that portion of
 3   Conservation Area 3A.
 4             MS. BIRCH:  Excuse me.  What is the
 5        question?
 6             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
 7              was read by the reporter.)
 8             THE WITNESS:  Counsel, could you rephrase
 9        the question for me, please.
10             MS. BIRCH:  I am just objecting to the form
11        of the question as a narrative.  I'm not sure
12        there is a question that Mr. Rhoads can answer.
13             MR. EARL:  Well, if you would like, if
14        Mr. Rhoads would like, Counsel, I can go to
15        every structure and every levee and every dyke
16        and ask him, but I think that is an abuse of his
17        time, and I don't think the rest of us want to
18        do that, so I am trying to ask him to generally
19        cover it.  He was about to answer.  I think it
20        is a much more efficient way to do it.
21        Otherwise, we'll be here --
22             MS. BIRCH:  I would agree with that,
23        Mr. Earl, if Mr. Rhoads can say that he
24        understands what he's being asked.
25             THE WITNESS:  My understanding of the

                                                 275

 1        question was, what are the adverse impacts of
 2        hydroperiod in the southern portion of
 3        Conservation Area 3A.
 4   BY MR. EARL:
 5       Q.    We can start there, yes.  That will be
 6   fine.
 7       A.    That is the question I am responding to.
 8   In general, the central portion has no adverse
 9   impacts.  That portion of the Everglades is nearly
10   pristine.  The area in the general vicinity of the
11   Dade Broward levee, the southern portion of
12   Conservation Area 3, tends to experience a ponding
13   problem analogous to the southern portion of
14   Conservation Area 1.  In other words, the hydroperiod
15   tends to be somewhat extended in this southern
16   portion of the area.
17       Q.    Southern -- locate me, please, with some
18   structures.  You say the southern portion of 3A?
19       A.    Generally the area south of the midway
20   point between Tamiami Trail and the Dade/Broward
21   levee.  Find the midway point between those two
22   structures, between Tamiami Trail and Dade/Broward
23   boundary.  Boundary line for Dade and Broward county.
24       Q.    Okay.
25       A.    Between there and Tamiami Trail and the

                                                 276

 1   southern portion of that area.
 2       Q.    Okay.
 3       A.    In the southern portion of that area, west
 4   of L-67A, east of L-28, that area tends to experience
 5   a lengthened hydroperiod because of a ponding problem
 6   analogous to what I described earlier in the
 7   Conservation Area 1.
 8       Q.    You are talking about the area north of the
 9   S-12 structure specifically?
10       A.    North of the S-12 structures.  For an area
11   of perhaps five to ten miles north of that.  That
12   area tends to have a somewhat lengthened hydroperiod,
13   which has resulted in white water lily sloughs being
14   a more -- a larger component of the landscape than
15   the sawgrass that one would find 15 to 20 miles north
16   of that.
17       Q.    I presume the sheet flow has been
18   eliminated in this area by the construction in the
19   levee in the S-12 structures; correct?
20             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
21             THE WITNESS:  Sheet flow in the area we
22        have been discussing is perhaps the only area
23        that does have particularly good sheet flow
24        coming out of the central portion of 3A.  In
25        other words, the area that we have been

                                                 277

 1        describing receives sheet flow from the adjacent
 2        marsh to the north; the central portion of
 3        Conservation Area 3A.  So the water tends to
 4        flow across the land in that area.
 5   BY MR. EARL:
 6       Q.    I got ahead of myself.  I'm sorry.  I was
 7   south of the 12 structures.  I apologize.  You have
 8   good sheet flow, and then it is impounded five to ten
 9   miles of -- pools five to ten miles north?
10       A.    Very roughly, yes.
11       Q.    And that is a result of the design and
12   construction of those structures; correct?
13       A.    Design and construction and operation of
14   the structures, yes.
15       Q.    Okay.  Pre-project, was that sawgrass
16   primarily in that area?
17       A.    That area probably doesn't differ too much.
18   I think Walt Dineen's recollection in that area was
19   that there were more white water lily sloughs in that
20   area, in his opinion, based upon the extended
21   hydroperiod in that area, but it was sawgrass and
22   adjacent white water lily sloughs.
23       Q.    There was pre-project -- it would be your
24   understanding there was more sawgrass than there is
25   now?

                                                 278

 1       A.    Probably in that area, yes.
 2       Q.    But even pre-project, there was probably
 3   more white lilies than there were sawgrass in terms
 4   of dominance?
 5             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  I don't
 6        think that is what he said.
 7   BY MR. EARL:
 8       Q.    I got the impression -- I am trying to --
 9   we can, and will, go into minute detailing, but I am
10   just trying to cut it short.  I had the impression
11   from your answer, Mr. Rhoads, that from Mr. Dineen's
12   recollections, this was not a predominantly sawgrass
13   area.  There was sawgrass there more than there is
14   now, but there was also lily there; correct?
15             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
16   BY MR. EARL:
17       Q.    Correct?  Or explain -- tell me in your own
18   words what was there.
19       A.    In part, yes.  The extended inundation of
20   this area, while not severe, it does have -- did and
21   does have longer hydroperiod in that area.  That
22   longer hydroperiod has tended to make the white water
23   lily sloughs a larger component of the vegetative mix
24   in that area than probably existed prior to the
25   construction of the Tamiami Trail in that area.

                                                 279

 1   Prior to alteration of flow patterns in that area.
 2   However, the area 15 to 20 miles north up in the
 3   vicinity of the Dade/Broward County line is probably
 4   as close to pristine Everglades as exists anywhere
 5   within the system.
 6       Q.    Okay.  Did the construction of the --
 7   strike that.  Prior to construction of the 12
 8   structures that the Tamiami Trail has there; correct?
 9       A.    Yes.
10       Q.    And what is your understanding of the water
11   conveyancing mechanisms, culverts that existed
12   pre-project, in terms of the hydrology?  Was it
13   better water flow or not?
14             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
15   BY MR. EARL:
16       Q.    Tell me your understanding of the
17   pre-project water flows across the Tamiami Trail.
18       A.    Tamiami Trail had a series of culverts and
19   small bridges all the way along its extent across the
20   Everglades.  There was not -- the L-67A and L-67C
21   borrow canals were constructed in the '60's, so the
22   Tamiami canal existed for an extensive period of time
23   with essentially no canals coming to it from the
24   north.  It was essentially a large marsh, at least in
25   the central portion of the Everglades north of the

                                                 280

 1   Tamiami Trail, and there were culverts underneath the
 2   highway in which water flowed basically without
 3   structural control.  Without gated control anyway.
 4       Q.    Have you reviewed the modified water
 5   deliveries EIS for this area?
 6       A.    Yes, briefly.
 7       Q.    Did you participate in the comments on it?
 8       A.    I don't believe I did, no.
 9       Q.    So what is your understanding of the
10   construction of the project due to the hydrology
11   along the Tamiami Trail?  If we can just go from east
12   to west, whatever is most convenient.
13             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
14             THE WITNESS:  Going west to east from the
15        L-30 borrow canal, the construction of the L-29
16        levee north of the Tamiami Trail, west of,
17        basically, Crome Avenue, of the L-30, L-31 north
18        borrow canal, L-29 levee intercepted overland
19        flow and kept that flow from flowing south, in
20        large measure anyway, into the northeast Shark
21        River Slough.  That applies for generally from
22        S-334 west to S-333.  For that portion of the
23        Everglades cross-section west of S-333 out to
24        the L-28 levee, the system tended to impound
25        water to the north, but it also provided

                                                 281

 1        structural control for the water flowing south
 2        under the Tamiami Trail.  The area to the west
 3        of that in the Big Cypress area was largely
 4        unaffected by construction of the C&SF project.
 5   BY MR. EARL:
 6       Q.    Was it your understanding -- was the
 7   project, in terms of disbursing flow, did it reduce
 8   the number of disbursion points into the park?
 9       A.    It, in essence, concentrated the Everglades
10   flow to the west of where today sits structure 333.
11   In other words, the full flow section of the
12   Everglades no longer was functional, and the flow was
13   discharged in the western portion of the section.
14       Q.    Through, as I understand it, four discrete
15   structures; correct?
16       A.    That is correct.
17             (Thereupon, a recess was taken.)
18             MR. EARL:  Can we resume?
19             MS. BIRCH:  Yes, we are ready.
20             MR. EARL:  Would you read back the last
21        question and answer, please.
22             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
23              was read by the reporter.)
24   BY MR. EARL:
25       Q.    What is your understanding of the adverse

                                                 282

 1   effects of the levee that was constructed from S-334
 2   to S-333?
 3             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
 4             THE WITNESS:  The construction of the L-29
 5        levee, in essence, cut off overland flow going
 6        into that portion of the Everglades south of the
 7        L-29 levee, normally called the Northeast Shark
 8        River Slough.
 9   BY MR. EARL:
10       Q.    Okay.  How large an area was impacted, as
11   you understand it?
12       A.    Oh, very roughly, on the order of 150
13   square miles.
14       Q.    And what was the pre-project vegetation in
15   that area, as you understand it?
16       A.    That area was one of the deeper portions of
17   the Everglades.  There were tree islands, sawgrass
18   sloughs.  That is a general characterization of the
19   vegetation pattern in the area.
20       Q.    And what were the impacts of the project on
21   the vegetation in the area post project?
22       A.    It tended to shift the vegetation pattern
23   to one more typical of the shorter hydroperiod area.
24   The slough areas were not as dominant.  Where they
25   occurred, they covered a smaller area.  There was, in

                                                 283

 1   that area, probably a greater preponderance of wet
 2   prairie community typical of even shorter
 3   hydroperiod.  It depends upon the specific area.  The
 4   L-29 canal and the L-67 extension canal both impacted
 5   that area, and so there is considerable local
 6   variation of the effect within that Northeast Shark
 7   River Slough area.
 8       Q.    There was loss of sawgrass in the area?
 9       A.    Perhaps to some degree.
10       Q.    Perhaps to some degree.  Is it your
11   understanding there was or was not a loss of
12   sawgrass?
13       A.    I'm not sure, Counselor.
14       Q.    Was there a drying out of that area?
15       A.    Yes, shortening of the hydroperiod, dryer
16   conditions.
17       Q.    And would that tell you that there would be
18   a shift to woody vegetation, brushy vegetation?
19       A.    Generally to some extent, yes.
20       Q.    What is in that area now, as you look at
21   it?
22       A.    Tree islands that were substantially
23   adversely affected by Hurricane Andrew, adjacent
24   sawgrass areas, some slough areas, some wet prairie
25   communities within that area.

                                                 284

 1       Q.    You don't see any myrtle, any willow?
 2       A.    Yes.  Particularly in the area adjacent to
 3   L-29, the shrubby vegetation characterized by myrtle,
 4   baccahrus, willow, is quite common.
 5       Q.    How large an area would that be in terms of
 6   the transformation to shrubby vegetation?
 7       A.    It varies.  Generally, to my recollection,
 8   a several hundred yard area adjacent to the Tamiami
 9   Trail on the south side experiences very clearly
10   visually evident those conditions.
11       Q.    Now, you mentioned the L-67 extension
12   canal.  Are you familiar with that?
13       A.    Generally, yes.
14       Q.    And whose idea was it to construct that?
15             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
16             THE WITNESS:  The L-67 extension canal was
17        constructed in the 1960's by a contractor to the
18        Corps of Engineers primarily, as I understand
19        it, in response to the Everglades National
20        Park's concern which developed in the early
21        '60's regarding insufficient quantity of water
22        reaching the park.
23   BY MR. EARL:
24       Q.    It was federally designed, constructed?
25       A.    That is correct.

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 1       Q.    Is it your understanding the National Park
 2   Service requested it?
 3             MS. PONZOLI:  Asked and answered,
 4        Counselor.
 5             THE WITNESS:  My general understanding is
 6        yes, they were supportive of the Corps designing
 7        construction of that canal, yes.
 8   BY MR. EARL:
 9       Q.    And what have been the adverse consequences
10   of the construction of the L-67, to your knowledge?
11       A.    In very general terms, it altered the
12   hydroperiod both on the east side and the west side.
13   Since discharges were made in the western portion of
14   the cross-section to the west of the L-67 extension,
15   that area tended to experience higher water levels,
16   longer hydroperiod, while the area to the east of the
17   L-67 extension tended to experience a shorter
18   hydroperiod conditions.  Water has been documented
19   historically going around the end of L-67 from the
20   west to the east.
21       Q.    And what was the impact to the increased
22   inundation to the west, hydroperiod to the west, in
23   terms of vegetation ecological factors?
24       A.    I have not been down in that area except on
25   very rare occasion down in that portion of the park.

                                                 286

 1   I really don't have any recollection of vegetative
 2   changes in those areas.
 3       Q.    Same would be true to the east?  You have
 4   no personal knowledge of that?
 5       A.    No.  I have better knowledge in the area to
 6   the east.  As we described earlier, we discussed that
 7   area.
 8       Q.    Shark River Slough?
 9       A.    The Shark River Slough area.
10       Q.    Okay.  Does that disturbance extend down
11   all the way to the length of L-67?  We talked about
12   150 square mile area.
13       A.    The 150 square mile area I referred to
14   earlier was basically the entire northeast Shark
15   River Slough east of the L-67 extension.  That was
16   affected by the construction of L-29.
17       Q.    Is it true, Mr. Rhoads, that most of the
18   hydroperiod problems the District has identified are
19   associated with the design operation of the Federal
20   project?
21             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
22             MS. BIRCH:  Object to form.
23             MR. EARL:  Grounds, Counselor?
24             MS. PONZOLI:  I think his testimony has
25        been otherwise.

                                                 287

 1             MS. BIRCH:  And I want to hear the question
 2        again.
 3             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
 4              was read by the reporter.)
 5             MS. BIRCH:  Grounds also, Mr. Earl, I
 6        haven't heard Mr. Rhoads testify as to problems
 7        identified by the District of hydroperiod.
 8             MR. EARL:  Okay.
 9   BY MR. EARL:
10       Q.    Is it true, Mr. Rhoads, that most of the
11   hydroperiod problems the District has identified are
12   associated with design operation of the Federal
13   project?
14             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
15             THE WITNESS:  The problems that we spent
16        the past hour or so discussing, that I have
17        discussed, resulted from the Central and
18        Southern Florida project and the previous
19        changes, such as the Tamiami Trail, such as the
20        works of the Everglades Drainage District that
21        occurred in the area.
22   BY MR. EARL:
23       Q.    Okay.  Who was responsible for the work on
24   the Tamiami Trail?  Is that the State of Florida?
25       A.    I believe so.

                                                 288

 1       Q.    Okay.  The Everglades Drainage District is
 2   the state established by this agency as the successor
 3   to; is that what you told me earlier?
 4       A.    Yeah, that is correct.
 5       Q.    Other than those two, what hydroperiod
 6   problems impacting the Everglades are not associated
 7   with the design operation of the Federal project?
 8             MS. PONZOLI:  May I hear the question
 9        again, please.
10             THE WITNESS:  Yes.  Could you repeat the
11        question please.
12             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
13              was read by the reporter.)
14             MS. PONZOLI:  Other than those two; is that
15        what you said?
16             THE WITNESS:  Counselor, reference for the
17        word "two".
18   BY MR. EARL:
19       Q.    Were the two you just gave me Tamiami
20   Trail, by DO State, and the Everglades Drainage
21   District?
22       A.    Other than the EDD and the Tamiami Trail?
23       Q.    Yes, sir.
24       A.    I think the other project that has impacted
25   hydroperiod in the Everglades has been the

                                                 289

 1   construction of Alligator Alley and, subsequently,
 2   Interstate 75.
 3       Q.    And it is my understanding the State of
 4   Florida undertook that construction?
 5       A.    I'm not sure.  Yes.  It was State of
 6   Florida with federal funding; but I'm not familiar
 7   with the details on that.
 8       Q.    Anything else?
 9       A.    No.
10       Q.    Okay, sir.  Now, with regard to the
11   project; what has been the impact, as you understand
12   it, on the Everglades, of the construction of the --
13   coastal -- what do you call it -- The Coastal Ridge
14   Levee protecting the developed urban areas as you go
15   south?
16       A.    You are referring, I believe, to what is
17   normally called the Coastal Containment Levee.
18       Q.    Okay, sir.  And that stretches from where
19   to where?
20       A.    Stretches from up at Lake Okeechobee, in
21   the vicinity of structure S-76, down to south of
22   Homestead levee L-31 west, south of S-175.
23       Q.    It comes down what, the L-8?
24       A.    The L-8, L-40, L-36, around Conservation
25   Area 2B, south L-37, L-33, L-30, L-31 north, L-31

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 1   west.
 2       Q.    All right, sir.  And that was part of the
 3   design and construction of the Federal project also;
 4   correct?
 5       A.    That is correct, yes.
 6       Q.    What has been the hydrologic impact of the
 7   construction of that levee on the Everglades?
 8       A.    In very general terms, what it did was to
 9   separate the urban the coastal area from the interior
10   Everglades area.  It basically provided for a
11   hydrologic separation of the surface water system
12   between the Everglades system, on the interior, and
13   the coastal area, which, for most purposes, drains
14   east to tide water.
15       Q.    So prior to the construction of that levee,
16   the drainage was generally to the east?
17       A.    It varied depending upon conditions.
18   Generally, overall flow in the system was from Lake
19   Okeechobee basically south, southeast, then south,
20   through the central portion of the area, and then to
21   the southwest as it went down across Tamiami Trail
22   and out in the Florida Bay.  The East Coast coastal
23   ridge served as the boundary for that system.  There
24   was some passage through at various point, through
25   the coastal ridge, but, before man's influence, that

                                                 291

 1   was the general flow pattern.
 2       Q.    Hydrologically, what did that levee do to
 3   the water in the Everglades?
 4             MS. PONZOLI:  I object to form.
 5             THE WITNESS:  Sorry, Counselor, I don't
 6        understand the question.
 7   BY MR. EARL:
 8       Q.    Okay.  What was the purpose of the levee?
 9   Why did they build it all the way from Lake
10   Okeechobee down to Homestead?
11       A.    The purpose was to hydrologically separate
12   the Everglades from the coastal area to prevent water
13   from the Everglades from flowing eastward, as surface
14   water, into the urban and agricultural areas that
15   were existing to the east of the containment levee.
16       Q.    And what did the project then do with those
17   waters that were contained?
18       A.    As I mentioned a moment ago, that area east
19   of the containment levee drained to tide water.  The
20   area to the west of the containment levee is the
21   Water Conservation Area and water flowed generally
22   south.
23       Q.    I'm not making myself clear.  I apologize.
24   If that was the pre-project condition, why did they
25   build a levee?  I am trying to understand what the

                                                 292

 1   hydrologic results of that levee were, in terms of
 2   water in the area.
 3       A.    The area between the East Coast containment
 4   levee and, essentially, the coastal ridge, prior to
 5   man's intervention, was a wetland.  It was, in all
 6   likelihood, a shallow hydroperiod wetland.  The
 7   construction of the containment levee provided the
 8   basic ability to drain that area to provide flood
 9   protection and drainage to the area to the east of
10   the levee.
11       Q.    How large an area, approximately, was that
12   area between the Coastal Containment Levee and the
13   coastal ridge -- natural coastal ridge?
14       A.    Probably an area on the order of
15   three-quarters of a million to a million acres.
16       Q.    750,000 to a million acres?
17       A.    Roughly.  Very roughly.
18       Q.    Was that part of the native Everglades?
19       A.    Significant portions of that, yes, were.
20   And in all likelihood part of the periphery of the
21   original Everglades.
22       Q.    And the result of that was to allow urban
23   development in that area; is that correct?
24       A.    Agricultural and urban development, yes,
25   was one of the results.

                                                 293

 1       Q.    One of the purposes, wasn't it, of the
 2   project?
 3       A.    That was the project purpose, yes.
 4       Q.    I'm sorry.  Did you tell me that was part
 5   of the natural Everglades?  That 750 to a million?
 6             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  That's been
 7        asked and answered.
 8             MR. EARL:  I am just not clear, Counsel.  I
 9        can have the court reporter read it back.  I am
10        trying to save some time.
11             THE WITNESS:  Portions of that area,
12        considerable portions of that area, were, in all
13        likelihood, the eastern fringe of the
14        Everglades.  They were wetlands, and for
15        ecosystem purposes could realistically be
16        considered part of the Everglades.
17   BY MR. EARL:
18       Q.    What human activities is the District
19   currently allowing in Water Conservation Area 3A?
20       A.    Sports use of Conservation Area 3A is
21   managed for the District by the Florida Game and
22   Fresh Water Fish Commission.  Because of high water
23   levels at this point in time, recreational use of the
24   area is highly restricted.
25       Q.    There are some houses out there, fish

                                                 294

 1   camps, are there not?
 2       A.    In portions of Water Conservation Areas,
 3   yes.
 4       Q.    Who permits those; the District?
 5       A.    To the best of my knowledge, those are
 6   unpermitted structures.
 7       Q.    Is that District land?
 8       A.    There are difficult questions of ownership
 9   for those facilities.
10       Q.    What about agricultural activities in
11   Conservation Area 3A?  How much of that does the
12   District allow?
13       A.    There is no agricultural activity within
14   Water Conservation Area 3A.
15       Q.    Who grazes the cattle in Water Conservation
16   Area 3A?
17       A.    No one, to my knowledge.
18       Q.    Are you saying the Seminoles and the
19   Miccosukees do not have cattle grazing activities in
20   Water Conservation Area 3A?
21       A.    Not to my knowledge.  Not to the east of
22   L-28 levee, no.
23       Q.    Is that the boundary of Water Conservation
24   Area 3, L-28 levee?
25       A.    Yes.  For practical working purposes, yes.

                                                 295

 1       Q.    You would be aware of any development
 2   activities or agricultural activities in Water
 3   Conservation Area 3A?
 4       A.    I suspect so, yes.
 5       Q.    And you are not aware of any?
 6       A.    I'm not aware of any.
 7       Q.    Okay.  Any other activities development
 8   allowed in the Water Conservation Areas?
 9       A.    There is at least one fish camp that is
10   permitted within Water Conservation Areas by the
11   District.
12       Q.    Whose fish camp is that?
13       A.    It's been so long.  Holiday Park Fish Camp,
14   out from S-9 pump station.
15       Q.    The construction of the coastal levee as
16   part of the Federal project, did that remove -- that
17   did remove, did it not, a substantial area that prior
18   to that was available for water flow and storage?
19             MS. PONZOLI:  May I hear that question
20        again, please.
21             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
22              was read by the reporter.)
23             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
24             MR. EARL:  Grounds?
25             MS. PONZOLI:  I think it is vague.  I don't

                                                 296

 1        think it is clear at all what you are trying to
 2        ask.  I don't think you did it on purpose, I
 3        just think it came out that way.
 4             THE WITNESS:  The construction of the East
 5        Coast containment levee did remove, generally,
 6        areas to the east of it from storage of water.
 7        In other words, it provided for the drainage of
 8        those areas.
 9   BY MR. EARL:
10       Q.    And did it raise the hydroperiod, increase
11   the hydroperiod, in areas to the west of the levee?
12       A.    Yes, in general terms, it did.
13       Q.    And did you anticipate, in your capacity as
14   Everglades Restoration Director, that that would have
15   had adverse consequences on the ecology of the
16   Everglades?
17             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
18             THE WITNESS:  Generally not, because -- the
19        reason for that is because when the east coast
20        levee system was constructed, it came in in the
21        aftermath of, basically, a severe overdrainage
22        of the Everglades by the Everglades Drainage
23        District canals.  Those canals, while basically
24        ineffective during flood periods in controlling
25        flooding, they were too effective during dry

                                                 297

 1        periods in draining the area.  So the additional
 2        impoundment resulting from the lower East Coast
 3        Containment Levee tended to alleviate, or
 4        ameliorate, some of those drainage problems.  So
 5        in my mind, it would generally be -- the results
 6        of that levee construction were generally
 7        positive compared to what was there previously.
 8   BY MR. EARL:
 9       Q.    You mentioned earlier one of the adverse
10   impacts of the Federal project was the increased
11   incidence of fire; correct?
12       A.    Yes, in portions of the Water Conservation
13   Areas, that is correct.
14       Q.    What are the consequences ecologically of
15   fire?
16       A.    It depends on the timing, severity and the
17   pre-existing conditions to the fire.  In many cases,
18   fire is beneficial, and in other cases, fire has a
19   distinctly adverse effect upon the Everglades.
20       Q.    Okay.  Modified, the hydroperiod caused by
21   the project has resulted in more fire, has it not?
22             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
23             THE WITNESS:  I'm not comfortable with that
24        statement, Counselor.

                                                 298

 1   BY MR. EARL:
 2       Q.    Okay.  How would you state it?
 3       A.    I'm not sure if the data exists, or the
 4   recollections exist by naturalists, to demonstrate
 5   one way or the other how that was.  It also depends
 6   on the area, to large measure, I believe.  As
 7   mentioned earlier, the period of the '40s, with the
 8   Everglades Drainage District facilities in place, was
 9   one of substantial overdrainage and fire, substantial
10   fire, during that period.
11       Q.    Have you found, in the last 20 years, that
12   the area north of Alligator Alley, because of the
13   increased incidence of fires, has lost a significant
14   amount of peat?
15       A.    Yes, that is correct.
16       Q.    Has there been a burning oxidation of the
17   peat that's been laid down over the past 5,000 years
18   in this area?
19       A.    Yes, that is generally correct.
20       Q.    Because it didn't have enough water?
21       A.    In general terms, that is correct.
22       Q.    Is phosphorus released during fires in the
23   Everglades?
24             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.

                                                 299

 1   BY MR. EARL:
 2       Q.    Into the atmosphere or otherwise?
 3       A.    Generally, the oxidation of the peat
 4   accompanying fire results in phosphorus being made
 5   available.  Just the process of oxidation converts
 6   carbon oxygen into CO2, and it leaves the minerals
 7   such as phosphorus.  Some of it could be carried in
 8   the smoke going from a fire.  A significant portion
 9   would be residual, as the ash.
10       Q.    What, if any, hydroperiod problems are the
11   EAA farmers responsible for in terms of impacting the
12   Everglades?
13             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
14             MR. EARL:  Grounds?
15             MS. PONZOLI:  I think it calls for
16        testimony that I'm not sure that this witness
17        can give, and I think it is such a broad based
18        question that it probably cannot be answered by
19        anyone.
20             MS. BIRCH:  I would like to hear the
21        question.
22             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
23              was read by the reporter.)
24             THE WITNESS:  As I mentioned earlier, one
25        of the factors in determining the time, the

                                                 300

 1        rate, the amount of water discharged at the pump
 2        stations from the EAA is what happens in the
 3        area tributary to those pump stations.  S-5A,
 4        S-6, S-7 area tributary to those pump stations
 5        is agriculture, and within the Everglades
 6        Agricultural Area the water that is pumped out
 7        of those pump stations is, in large measure,
 8        water that was discharged from lands within the
 9        Everglades Agricultural Area.  Were those lands
10        not in agricultural production, the magnitude
11        and volume and runoff coming from those lands
12        would be much less than it is, and water would
13        not be pumped into pump stations.  Following
14        that line of logic, the many lands in other of
15        those tributary areas, to the north of the pump
16        stations, are one of the reasons that
17        hydroperiod problems occur because of the levee
18        system in the pumps.
19   BY MR. EARL:
20       Q.    Is that water used and pumped by the EAA
21   farmers pursuant to District permits?
22       A.    In some cases, yes.
23       Q.    Are there surface water management permits
24   for those systems?
25       A.    Currently, not for most of them, but

                                                 301

 1   shortly there will be for all of them.
 2       Q.    Is there use of water in that area, to your
 3   knowledge, for any reason, not in conformance with
 4   District water use regulations?
 5             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  It is what
 6        the whole case has been about.
 7             MS. BIRCH:  Object to form.
 8             THE WITNESS:  Repeat the question, please.
 9             MR. EARL:  I'll rephrase it.
10   BY MR. EARL:
11       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, you have talked about the fact
12   that the lands converted to agricultural use result
13   in runover and in different timing of water, less
14   than would be in native Everglades; correct?
15       A.    That is correct.
16       Q.    Is the water use by the farmers, in terms
17   of water quantity under 373, so far as you know, in
18   accordance with District regulations and permits?
19             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  Calls for a
20        legal conclusion on the part of a nonlegal
21        person.
22             MS. BIRCH:  Same objection, Mr. Earl.
23   BY MR. EARL:
24       Q.    Okay.
25       A.    I haven't been in the regulatory or legal

                                                 302

 1   portion of that aspect of the District operations,
 2   Counselor, so I don't feel comfortable responding.
 3       Q.    Okay.  You don't know?
 4       A.    Don't know.
 5       Q.    Okay.  You do understand, do you not, that
 6   one purpose of the project was to allow agricultural
 7   development in the EAA?
 8       A.    That was one of the purposes of the
 9   project, yes.
10       Q.    And one of the purposes of the project, was
11   it not, to supply water for that agricultural use?
12       A.    Yes, that was one of the design
13   considerations of the project.
14       Q.    And one of the purposes of the project, was
15   it not, was to provide flood control for that
16   agricultural use?
17       A.    That is correct.
18       Q.    Let's talk for a minute about the impacts
19   of operations of the Federal project.  We have talked
20   to date about design and construction.  Starting out
21   with hydroperiod; what hydroperiod impacts are you
22   aware of resulting from District operational
23   decisions on the project?
24             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  I think we
25        have been talking about operations while we were

                                                 303

 1        talking about all other hydroperiod terms.  I
 2        don't think it was isolated out -- that it was
 3        only construction of the project.  None of the
 4        questions were ever structured in that way nor
 5        answered in that way.
 6             MS. BIRCH:  I also object to the form.  As
 7        I recall, Mr. Earl, in Mr. Rhoads' response to
 8        your questions regarding hydroperiod impacts of
 9        the operation on the project, his answers were
10        responsive to what I believe include any
11        impacts.  The questions were broad and overly
12        conclusive.
13             MR. EARL:  Okay, Counsel.
14   BY MR. EARL:
15       Q.    Are you aware of any operational options
16   the District has to alter hydroperiod in various
17   areas and adverse impacts those options have had over
18   the years?
19             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  It is a
20        compound question.
21             THE WITNESS:  Would you repeat that
22        question, please.
23             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
24              was read by the reporter.)

                                                 304

 1   BY MR. EARL:
 2       Q.    Other than what we have talked about.
 3             MS. PONZOLI:  Object.  You're making it
 4        worse.
 5             THE WITNESS:  I don't understand your
 6        question, Counselor.
 7             MR. EARL:  Okay.  We'll go at it in more
 8        detail.
 9             MS. PONZOLI:  Excuse me.  What was -- would
10        you read back the last statement.
11             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
12              was read by the reporter.)
13   BY MR. EARL:
14       Q.    What is your understanding of how the
15   District operates the project, Mr. Rhoads?
16       A.    Within the Everglades area?
17       Q.    Yeah.
18       A.    The project's operated in accord with the
19   guidelines established by the Corps of Engineers.
20       Q.    Those are regulations, schedules?
21       A.    Regulations, schedules, structure operation
22   schedules, et cetera.
23       Q.    And within those parameters, am I correct
24   in understanding the District has latitude to make
25   operational decisions?

                                                 305

 1       A.    With concurrence of the Corps of Engineers,
 2   yes, there is some latitude in those.
 3       Q.    Isn't it true, Mr. Rhoads, that phosphorus
 4   loading, at specific points, will be affected by
 5   operational decisions as to how you route water; you,
 6   being the District?
 7             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
 8             THE WITNESS:  I'm sorry.  I need a repeat
 9        on that question.
10             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
11              was read by the reporter.)
12             THE WITNESS:  I think that is generally
13        correct; that where the water goes, if the water
14        contains phosphorus, that is where the
15        phosphorus impacts would be.
16   BY MR. EARL:
17       Q.    Okay.  And does the District have some
18   latitude as to where it routes water within the
19   system?
20       A.    Some latitude, but not a great deal.  But
21   there is some latitude, yes.
22       Q.    Are you aware of any operational latitude
23   in terms of where water is routed that would have
24   resulted in increased phosphorus loading at
25   downstream points?

                                                 306

 1       A.    Increased compared to what?
 2       Q.    Increased to what it would be if the water
 3   had been routed elsewhere by the District?
 4             MS. BIRCH:  I object to the form of the
 5        question.
 6             Do you understand that question,
 7        Mr. Rhoads?
 8             THE WITNESS:  I'm not aware of any options
 9        right offhand.  To the extent I understand the
10        question, no, I'm not aware of any options.
11   BY MR. EARL:
12       Q.    Didn't, historically, the park service
13   complain about shunting water down L-67?  You never
14   heard of that?
15       A.    Yes.  No.  I am aware of that.
16       Q.    Isn't that an operational decision by the
17   District?
18       A.    In conjunction with the Corps of Engineers,
19   yes.
20       Q.    Explain that to me; what that option was.
21       A.    There are several structures in the L-67
22   extension canal.  Those structures have operational
23   capability.  The use of the L-67 extension canal to
24   handle discharges from Conservation Area 3A and
25   discharge those farther into the park, down into the

                                                 307

 1   park, was considered to have adverse consequences
 2   during the '80's, and as a result, the Corps of
 3   Engineers, in conjunction with the park, modified
 4   those facilities so that the L-67 extension
 5   essentially did not discharge water down into that
 6   portion of the park.  The structures were modified to
 7   be essentially nonfunctional most of the time.
 8       Q.    When was that?
 9       A.    I don't remember, other than sometime
10   during the early '80's, I believe.  '83, '84.
11       Q.    But water is still routed down L-67 canal;
12   is that correct?
13       A.    My recollection, and I admit it is not
14   precise, my recollection is that those structures are
15   generally not operating.  They are not operational.
16   The tie backs on those small culverts were beefed up.
17   I admit my knowledge in this area is fuzzy, but my
18   recollection was that those structures were not
19   operational; not operated.
20       Q.    When the water was routed down L-67, how
21   long a period did that occur?
22       A.    That occurred from the completion of
23   construction of L-67 extension during the '60's,
24   later portion, mid to later portion of the '60's,
25   until vicinity of 1983, 1984.

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 1       Q.    Okay, sir.  And during that time period,
 2   the '60's to 1983 or '84, what was the alternative
 3   delivery device to get water down to the park if the
 4   L-67 canals weren't in use; weren't used?
 5       Q.    What was the routing of the water?
 6       A.    The S-12 structures were used for discharge
 7   from Conservation Area 3A into Everglades National
 8   Park.  One of the problems associated with L-67
 9   extension was that it would intercept that flow
10   coming through S-12C and S-12D and it tended to shunt
11   water further down into the system because the upper
12   portion of L-67C was intersecting that flow coming
13   through the S-12 structures.
14       Q.    Okay.  But if the -- not the extension
15   canal -- but if the L-67 canals weren't utilized to
16   send water down, what is the alternative routing to
17   get water into Water Conservation Area 3 and then
18   down to the 12 structures?
19       A.    We may have -- I may have a
20   misunderstanding of your question earlier.  I thought
21   we were talking about L-67 extension, but then you
22   mentioned the L-67 borrow canals.  I need to make
23   sure that I was responding appropriately to your
24   question, counselor.  I got confused there.
25       Q.    Was water routed through the L-67 canals

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 1   down to the park as a way to get it quickly down into
 2   the southern end of Water Conservation Area 3?
 3       A.    The L-67A borrow canal has been and
 4   continues to be a primary delivery route.
 5       Q.    Okay.  What is the alternative to that
 6   delivery route to get water down there is my
 7   question.
 8       A.    There basically is no alternative.  That
 9   structure, the borrow canal, L-67A borrow canal,
10   essentially is a nonoperable structure.  In other
11   words, its conveyance capabilities are basically not
12   controlled.  The S-151 structure is zoned within the
13   L-67A borrow canal, so the L-67A borrow canal
14   basically does not have any structures in it at the
15   current time.
16       Q.    How do we get water -- and maybe you're the
17   wrong person to ask this -- what is your
18   understanding of how we get water down the
19   alternative routings; to get water down into Water
20   Conservation Area 3A coming down from the lake and
21   the primary canals?
22       A.    There really are only three ways to get
23   surface water into Conservation Area 3A.  Through the
24   S-8 pump station --
25       Q.    Okay.

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 1       A.    -- through the S-150 culvert series --
 2       Q.    Okay.
 3       A.    -- and through the S-11 structures.
 4       Q.    And the S-150 culvert is where, in
 5   proximity to S-150?
 6       A.    Well, the S-150 is a series of culverts.
 7   It is a culvert structure that discharges from the
 8   L-18 borrow into the L-38 west borrow.
 9       Q.    So we can send water via the 11 structures
10   into the Water Conservation Area.  Does it then find
11   its way down to the 12 structures eventually?
12       A.    Eventually, yes, depending upon the rate of
13   discharge through the S-11 structures, it goes into
14   the marsh and goes through the canal system down
15   L-68A and down L-67A borrow.
16       Q.    And we can send it -- at S-8, can we send
17   it out into the marsh or does it have to come down
18   the canal?
19       A.    Discharges through S-8, under most
20   hydrologic conditions, go into to the canal system
21   and flow south along the Miami Canal.
22       Q.    All right.  And 150, we can send it into
23   the marsh, can we not?
24       A.    No.  Depending upon -- under some
25   hydrologic conditions, yes, but basically the

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 1   discharge side of the S-150 structure is the L-38
 2   west canal, so discharges through the S-150 culverts,
 3   go from the L-18 borrow into the L-38 west borrow
 4   canal on the west side of US-27; through that
 5   portion.
 6       Q.    And where does that lead them; to the S-11
 7   structure?
 8       A.    Yes.  The L-38 west borrow canal extends
 9   from the S-150 culverts down, passes west of the S-11
10   structures and joins with L-68A without structural
11   control.
12       Q.    So the primary source of water down to the
13   12 structures releases from the 11 structures, am I
14   correct, and sheet flow?
15       A.    It depends on the conditions.
16       Q.    Okay.
17       A.    It depends upon rainfall conditions as to
18   the relative magnitude of inflows from S-150, S-8 and
19   the S-11 structures.  It depends upon stage
20   conditions; where Conservation Area 2A is with regard
21   to its regulation schedule.
22             Okay.  I believe those are the major
23   determining factors.
24       Q.    I understand that.  My question remains
25   through the S-11 structures -- if you're going to

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 1   send water down to the 12 structures, that is the
 2   prime, principal vehicle for doing it, the S-11
 3   structures; correct?
 4             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form; asked and
 5        answered.
 6             MS. BIRCH:  Object.  Asked and answered.
 7   BY MR. EARL:
 8       Q.    Okay.  Is that true?
 9       A.    Depends on where the water coming from.
10       Q.    Well, let's go back and tell me where it is
11   coming from then.  You told me there was S-8, S-150
12   culverts and the S-11 structures were the primary;
13   correct?
14       A.    That is correct.
15       Q.    Where else can it come from to get down to
16   S-12?
17       A.    Well, to get to the S-12 structure water
18   can come from Conservation Area 2A, Conservation Area
19   1, or Lake Okeechobee under dry conditions.
20       Q.    Via what vehicle?
21             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
22   BY MR. EARL:
23       Q.    How does it get from 2 is my question.  How
24   does it get -- if you want to have a release from 2,
25   by what vehicle?

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 1       A.    It goes through the S-11 structures into
 2   Conservation Area 3.
 3       Q.    Okay.  But let's not talk about that one.
 4   We have already identified that.  I am saying other
 5   than the S-11 structures.  You have told me under
 6   most conditions, S-8 goes into the canal.
 7       A.    Yes.
 8             MS. BIRCH:  Object, argumentative.
 9        Mr. Rhoads is trying to answer your question,
10        Mr. Earl.
11   BY MR. EARL:
12       Q.    And S-150 culverts.  Do we get water from
13   those that goes down to S-12?
14       A.    Water can flow through the S-150 culverts
15   into the L-38 west canal and can go down to the S-12
16   culverts, yes.
17       Q.    We talked about that.  Any other routings?
18   Can it go down -- describe any other routings to get
19   it down to the S-12 structure.
20       A.    Depending upon conditions, water can be
21   pumped at the S-8 structure, it can flow through the
22   Miami Canal, depending upon the status of S-339W,
23   whether it is open or closed, it can flow south
24   through the structure, or it can be disbursed into a
25   marsh at that location.  339 and 340 are normally

                                                 314

 1   operated in tandem.  They are normally operated
 2   together.  Assuming that both structures are open,
 3   water would flow down the Miami Canal, then depending
 4   on where it was going, it could either flow through
 5   S-151, if it were opened; if it were closed, it could
 6   flow along L-67A.
 7       Q.    Excuse me.  Through S-151 into the marsh?
 8       A.    No, S-151 is a structure that is in the
 9   L-67A levee to the east of the borrow canal.
10       Q.    I see.
11       A.    So there is a borrow canal running adjacent
12   to the L-67A levee.
13       Q.    Right.
14       A.    The structure is in the levee.  So when the
15   structures open, water can continue to flow in the
16   Miami Canal from northwest to southeast.  Basically
17   into conservation area 3B through structure 151.
18       Q.    Goes into 3B.  Okay.
19       A.    3B.  And then can go farther, depending on
20   its direction.
21       Q.    Okay.  Any other routings?
22       A.    To get water from where to where?
23       Q.    We are talking about the 12 structures,
24   Mr. Rhoads.  Trying to get it down to the 12
25   structures.  I am trying to understand.  I apologize

                                                 315

 1   for my lack of understanding.
 2       A.    That's okay.  We have talked about the S-11
 3   structures and delivering water from Conservation
 4   Area 2, we have talked about the S-150 structure and
 5   the S-8 structure as routes from Lake Okeechobee to
 6   the Conservation Area 3A, depending on where you want
 7   to bring the water from, what the source of the water
 8   is.
 9       Q.    And have we -- you were describing the
10   Miami Canal and the S-151 structure and the levee;
11   correct?
12       A.    Correct.
13       Q.    Okay.  And you could send it down there
14   into 3B?
15       A.    Correct.
16       Q.    How do we get it into -- where does it come
17   from into the L-67 canal to get down to -- what is
18   that; 333 structure?
19       A.    Yeah.  The general flow patterns in the
20   L-67A borrow canal, which is west of the L-67A
21   levee -- water in the L-67A southwest of the Miami
22   Canal, southwest of S-151 basically -- water could
23   get there from several sources.  It could come down
24   the Miami Canal, take a right-hand turn, and go down
25   the L-67A borrow canal.

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 1       Q.    Through 151 also?
 2       A.    No.  No. 151 is in the L-67A levee.  The
 3   L-67A borrow canal is on the northwest side of the
 4   levee.
 5       Q.    There is no structure there?
 6       A.    There is no structure there.
 7       Q.    So you just shoot it down the Miami Canal
 8   and it goes by gravity to the L-67A borrow canal?
 9   There is no structure?
10       A.    There is no structure at the junction
11   between the Miami Canal and the L-67 borrow canal.
12   That is an open channel connection.
13             Water can also come from the S-9 pump
14   station.  Water can come also down the L-68A borrow
15   canal coming into that uncontrolled junction there
16   between the Miami Canal and the L-67A borrow canal.
17       Q.    Okay.  So there are several options the
18   District has if they want to -- they can turn on S-9
19   and send it down L-67; correct?
20       A.    I don't view the operation of S-9 as an
21   option for moving water.  The criteria for operating
22   S-9 are basically flowed control criteria for the
23   basin to the east of it.
24       Q.    Is there another structure that the
25   option -- if I say I want to send water down, you

                                                 317

 1   said from S-9, but from that area, is there a
 2   structure that routes it down to the L-67 canal?
 3       A.    There are essentially open channel
 4   connections just to the west of the S-9 structure.
 5   Those canals are essentially uncontrolled canals.
 6   From there, right on down to the S-12 complex.
 7       Q.    To feed those canals what structure is
 8   there; an open and close structure?
 9       A.    You are referring to the L-68A complex
10   there, say, just to the west of the S-9 structure?
11       Q.    Yes, sir.  Is there a structure to the
12   north of that that you can open and close to send
13   water down?
14       A.    There are a series of structures.  If you
15   wanted to put water in there, you could do it from
16   the S-11 structures by opening the S-11 structures,
17   bringing water down the L-68A borrow.  If you wanted
18   to bring water from Lake Okeechobee, you could open
19   the Hurricane gate up at S-2.  You could bring water
20   down the North New River canal, you could pass it
21   through the S-150 culverts into the L-38 west borrow
22   canal, down, join the L-68 borrow canal, and you
23   could get lake water there.
24       Q.    Okay.  I understand those to the north.
25   Okay.  I will pursue this with someone in operations

                                                 318

 1   and I won't burden you anymore with this.  I thank
 2   you for your help on that.
 3             The District's operational decisions in
 4   routing water, Mr. Rhoads, will result in differences
 5   in total volume of water delivered at a particular
 6   structure; is that correct?
 7       A.    Could you repeat that question, please?
 8             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
 9              was read by the reporter.)
10             THE WITNESS:  That is basically correct.
11        However, in many cases, the District has little
12        or no operational flexibility.  For instance, on
13        the major pump stations that the District
14        operates, those are not optional decisions.  The
15        decision to pump or not to pump is a flood
16        control decision based upon conditions in the
17        upstream watershed pump.
18   BY MR. EARL:
19       Q.    But apart from that, apart from those
20   specific restrictions you have told me, it is
21   generally correct?  You just told me generally
22   correct?
23       A.    Yeah.  Where the water goes determines
24   where the impacts of whatever constituents will be.
25       Q.    And the District operational decisions, if

                                                 319

 1   they change total volumes of water delivered at a
 2   particular structure, will also change the loading of
 3   particular water quality constituents at that
 4   structure, would they not?
 5       A.    Theoretically, that is correct, yes.
 6       Q.    You consider hydrology to be a hard
 7   quantitative science, Mr. Rhoads?
 8             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  I don't
 9        think we know what you mean.
10             THE WITNESS:  It is one of the more
11        quantitative of the sciences, yes.
12   BY MR. EARL:
13       Q.    And there is a range of errors associated
14   with hydrologic numbers, isn't there?
15       A.    Certainly.
16       Q.    What is your understanding of the results
17   of the IAP; the approximate number of acre feet going
18   south that pre-IAP did not go south?
19       A.    My recollection of that figure is fuzzy,
20   Counselor.  I had that on one occasion.
21       Q.    205,000 acre feet?
22       A.    200,000 acre feet sounds appropriate, yes.
23       Q.    Do you remember the presettlement SWIM plan
24   had a target, or a goal, of .03 milligrams per
25   lighter phosphorus?

                                                 320

 1       A.    Yes.
 2       Q.    How was that derived and what was the
 3   purpose of it?
 4       A.    The point -- the 30 parts per billion
 5   number, if I may, was, in my recollection, a
 6   judgmental number.  It was a number that Walt Dineen
 7   in his best professional judgment felt was an
 8   appropriate threshold number for phosphorus in the
 9   Everglades, and was basically concurred by other
10   District biologists who were experienced in the
11   Everglades.
12       Q.    Such as?
13       A.    Steve Davis, Dave Swift, to my
14   recollection, were generally comfortable with that
15   number.
16       Q.    And how is that going to be utilized, that
17   goal or target?
18       A.    The long range goal of the Everglades SWIM
19   Plan is to alleviate the water quality problems
20   within Water Conservation Areas.  Research over the
21   next four to five years may very well indicate that
22   the most appropriate threshold number to be using is
23   in that vicinity or perhaps lower.  We'll need to
24   await the research to determine whether that number
25   is an appropriate one or whether the most appropriate

                                                 321

 1   number is higher or lower than that.
 2       Q.    At the time, did you concur that that was
 3   an appropriate number?
 4       A.    Yes, I did.
 5       Q.    Why was it called a target or a goal
 6   instead of a standard or a phosphorous limit?
 7       A.    In my recollection, the logic was that a
 8   specific standard would need rigorous justification
 9   in terms of the science behind it.  In other words,
10   there was a high requirement for formal standard
11   setting and that the 30 parts per billion number was
12   basically a professional judgment number that, while
13   it was the most appropriate number available, it
14   represented the consensus of scientific opinion here
15   at this agency.  At that point in time it did not
16   have the underpinning that one would normally expect
17   to be established as a standard.
18       Q.    Do you still believe the 30 parts per
19   billion is an appropriate target or goal?
20       A.    It is in the appropriate range.  It is in
21   the appropriate range is about the best I could say
22   at this point in time, Counselor.
23       Q.    What do you think the appropriate range is?
24       A.    I personally feel that that range is
25   somewhere between about seven parts per billion

                                                 322

 1   upwards to approaching 50 parts per billion.
 2   Somewhere in that range.  And it may vary depending
 3   upon various variables within the Everglades area.
 4       Q.    Which variables?
 5       A.    Habitat type, substrate type, vegetation
 6   type.
 7       Q.    Any other variables?  Habitat, substrate,
 8   vegetation?
 9       A.    I would think those would be the primary
10   ones.
11       Q.    Is this 30 parts per billion, this target,
12   is that synonymous with a threshold, vegetative
13   threshold, when you start to get into analysis?  Was
14   that the purpose of that?
15             MS. PONZOLI:  Objects to form.
16             MS. BIRCH:  Object to the form.
17             THE WITNESS:  The purpose of the 30 parts
18        per billion was to serve as a goal or a target
19        towards which to direct our remediation efforts.
20   BY MR. EARL:
21       Q.    What did the biologists think the
22   significance was?  You said there was a concurrence
23   that 30 parts per billion was an appropriate number.
24       A.    My recollection was that if you could get
25   the inflow concentrations to 30 parts per billion or

                                                 323

 1   less, then the consensus of the biologists was that
 2   you wouldn't have much in the way of impacts.
 3       Q.    Impacts meaning what; vegetative changes?
 4       A.    Vegetative changes, microflora changes,
 5   algor changes, periphyton, any of the vegetative
 6   community impacts.
 7       Q.    What is your understanding of the natural
 8   phosphorus levels on nonimpacted marshes in the
 9   Everglades?
10       A.    In unimpacted marshes, phosphorous levels
11   are generally very low; near detection, far below
12   detection in many cases.
13       Q.    What would that be in parts per billion?
14       A.    Generally less than 10 to 15 parts per
15   billion.
16       Q.    Did you at any time believe that the 30
17   parts per billion target was appropriate to protect
18   Everglades National Park?
19       A.    Yes, I believe so.  Yes.
20       Q.    Do you still think that is appropriate to
21   protect the park?
22       A.    I believe that the appropriate number is in
23   the range that I described earlier, and that research
24   is necessary to determine what that appropriate
25   threshold is.

                                                 324

 1       Q.    And that is the ongoing research that you
 2   talked about yesterday that TOC is --
 3       A.    Yes, it is.
 4       Q.    I'm sorry.  The day before.  Monday, I
 5   guess it was.
 6       A.    Monday.  Yeah.
 7       Q.    So right now you just don't know?  It is
 8   within the range, but you don't know specifically?
 9       A.    It is within that range, but I do not know.
10       Q.    Okay.  Now, you understand there is a 50
11   part per billion -- what is called a phosphorus limit
12   on inflows into the Water Conservation Areas;
13   correct?
14       A.    I'm sorry, I missed the early part of the
15   question.
16             MR. EARL:  Could you read back the
17        question?
18             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
19              was read by the reporter.)
20             THE WITNESS:  Yes, I am familiar with the
21        50 parts per billion number.
22   BY MR. EARL:
23       Q.    To your knowledge, where did that number
24   come from?
25       A.    In very general terms, it is a technology

                                                 325

 1   based number.  It is a number that, in the opinion of
 2   staff, can be obtained with available technology.
 3       Q.    What technology?
 4       A.    The range of techniques that are discussed
 5   in the Everglades SWIM Plan.  Best management
 6   practices and stormwater treatment areas.  A
 7   combination of those technologies can produce inflow
 8   concentrations of approximately 50 parts per billion.
 9       Q.    Okay.  You say available technology.  Where
10   has that been shown or established, to your
11   knowledge?
12       A.    The information supporting that is
13   presented in the Everglades SWIM Plan.
14       Q.    I understand that, sir.  I'm asking you
15   your knowledge of it.
16       A.    I don't understand the question.
17       Q.    Okay.  You say it is available technology.
18   Where has that been demonstrated in Florida?
19       A.    Where has that -- "that" means the 50 parts
20   per billion?
21       Q.    Yes.  You told me it is a technology based
22   number that can be reached with available technology
23   in staff's opinion.
24       A.    Yes.
25       Q.    Okay.  I'm asking you what available

                                                 326

 1   technology you base that opinion on.
 2             MS. PONZOLI:  Asked and answered,
 3        Counselor.  He told you it appears in the SWIM
 4        plan.  Your question keeps shifting.  It shifted
 5        from generally, to Florida, and then back again.
 6             MR. EARL:  He said it is available
 7        technology.
 8   BY MR. EARL:
 9       Q.    Where are these numbers being achieved in
10   Florida?
11       A.    They are being achieved in Conservation
12   Area 2A.
13       Q.    Okay.  There is one.  Where else, sir?
14       A.    I think that is the best example supporting
15   that.
16       Q.    Do you know any others?
17       A.    The Orange County Wetlands Project, up in
18   the Orlando area, the waste water -- that treats the
19   waste water from the eastern portion of the Orlando
20   metropolitan area.
21       Q.    We are talking about Iron Bridge?
22       A.    Iron Bridge, yes.  Outflow from that
23   project has achieved those standards in the past.
24       Q.    Has achieved what; the 50 parts per
25   billion?

                                                 327

 1       A.    Has achieved 50 parts per billion.  Yes, it
 2   has.
 3       Q.    Okay.  Any other examples of this in
 4   Florida?
 5       A.    There may be.  I would consult the Kadlec
 6   Newman report to determine other examples.
 7       Q.    Okay.  I'll do that, but I'm asking you if
 8   you are aware of any right now.
 9       A.    No.  No, I'm not specifically aware of
10   anything.
11       Q.    You say WCA 2A is achieving this now, sir.
12   You mean the northern portions of WCA 2A that are
13   receiving this in the pump stations?
14       A.    Yes and no.
15       Q.    Okay.
16       A.    I mean as water flows across the northern
17   portion of Conservation Area 2A, the phosphorus
18   concentration decreases, and by the time you have
19   reached basically the middle of Conservation Area 2A,
20   you are substantially reduced.  You're below at or
21   below the 50 part per billion level of phosphorus.
22       Q.    We talked about the ENR project the other
23   day; correct, sir?
24       A.    Yes, we did.
25       Q.    Is the ENR a Vanguard project for the STAs?

                                                 328

 1       A.    It can be viewed in that manner.
 2             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
 3             MR. EARL:  Grounds?
 4             MS. PONZOLI:  I don't know what you mean by
 5        Vanguard, so --
 6   BY MR. EARL:
 7       Q.    You, in fact, Mr. Rhoads, have described it
 8   as the Vanguard project for the STAs, haven't you,
 9   sir?
10       A.    I believe I have used that term.
11       Q.    Have you also described it as the prototype
12   project for the Everglades?
13       A.    Yes, I believe so.
14       Q.    Have you also stated that ENR is where the
15   District is going to gain its experience in the key
16   issues involved?
17       A.    Usually I have said key operational issues,
18   yes.
19       Q.    Okay.  How long will it be, as we sit here
20   today, before sufficient data are available from the
21   ENR project enabling you to draw some conclusions
22   from that project?
23             MS. BIRCH:  Objection.  The question calls
24        for speculation and conclusions.
25             MS. PONZOLI:  I think it is also vague, as

                                                 329

 1        to sufficient data.
 2             THE WITNESS:  In response to that question
 3        from Jim Nall in the past, I have normally
 4        responded that it would take a minimum of two
 5        years following completion of construction of
 6        the project before there was a chance of being
 7        comfortable with the results.  The project
 8        construction is scheduled for -- completion is
 9        scheduled for July of 1993, which is ten months
10        from now, which would be roughly two years and
11        ten months at the earliest.
12   BY MR. EARL:
13       Q.    It is still your judgment that it would
14   take two years after construction?
15       A.    Based upon discussion with appropriate
16   staff, that appears to be a reasonable position.
17       Q.    So two years and ten months; September,
18   October, '93, '94 --
19             MS. BIRCH:  Showing a pause in Mr. Earl
20        asking you the question.  I'm not sure he's
21        finished yet.
22   BY MR. EARL:
23       Q.    August of '95?  Would that be in the
24   ballpark?
25       A.    In the ballpark, yes.

                                                 330

 1       Q.    To close the circle, in August of 1995 you
 2   would anticipate having enough data to allow you to
 3   draw conclusions on the ENR project; correct, sir?
 4       A.    More precisely, Counselor, that would be
 5   the earliest date at which we would expect to have
 6   potentially sufficient data to draw solid
 7   conclusions.
 8       Q.    Conclusions about what, sir?
 9       A.    Regarding the ability of an artificial
10   marsh created to farm lands to perform in the manner
11   that we expect.
12       Q.    That is the general.  What variables will
13   you be looking at there in that conclusion; hope to?
14       A.    The ENR project is utilizing the test cells
15   which are currently under construction, will look at
16   a range of operational parameters, such as flow rate,
17   water level, detention time, vegetation type, et
18   cetera.  Those sort of variables will be examined as
19   part of the ENR project, with the primary objective
20   of establishing an optimal operational mode for such
21   a system.
22       Q.    Okay, sir.  To your knowledge, has the
23   South Florida Water Management District ever
24   constructed a stormwater treatment system for
25   nutrients?

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 1       A.    Would you help me in how you define your
 2   terms there?
 3       Q.    Sure.  I am talking about a system like the
 4   ENR or the STAs.
 5       A.    No, we have not constructed a system
 6   similar to ENR previously.
 7       Q.    To your knowledge, has the South Florida
 8   Water Management District ever operated a system
 9   similar to the ENR or the STAs?
10       A.    No, we have not.
11       Q.    Is it a true statement of fact, Mr. Rhoads,
12   that no one has ever done a project like the Nutrient
13   Removal Project before on this type of soil?
14             MS. BIRCH:  Are you asking him to the best
15        of his knowledge, Mr. Earl?
16   BY MR. EARL:
17       Q.    Sure.
18       A.    To the best of my knowledge, no.  Not in
19   this climatological locale; this saw type, no.
20       Q.    And is it still correct, to your judgment,
21   that the District is not sure of the length of time
22   it takes for the processes involved, including
23   vegetation, development and other processes in ENR to
24   develop?
25             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.

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 1             THE WITNESS:  There is still large
 2        uncertainty associated with those processes,
 3        yes.
 4   BY MR. EARL:
 5       Q.    Have decisions been made on what type of
 6   vegetation to put into the ENR?
 7       A.    I believe so, yes.
 8       Q.    Cattails were initially discussed, weren't
 9   they?
10       A.    Yes.
11       Q.    Were they excluded?
12       A.    No.
13       Q.    Are they going to be included?
14       A.    Natural regrowth, which in all likelihood
15   will be cattails, is going to be the predominant
16   vegetative mode for considerable portion of the ENR
17   project.
18       Q.    I'm sorry.  Natural --
19       A.    Natural regrowth.
20       Q.    Regrowth.  Okay.
21       A.    In other words, not planting, but letting
22   it come up where it will.
23       Q.    Not going to plant bullrushes?
24       A.    Yes, we will plant in portions of the area
25   bullrushes.

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 1       Q.    What else?
 2       A.    A whole series of wetlands vegetation is
 3   going to be tried in various locations within the
 4   area in test cells and in the polishing cells,
 5   different types.
 6       Q.    Am I correct in understanding the size of
 7   the ENR is 3700 acres?
 8       A.    That is approximately correct, yes.
 9       Q.    And under the current planning, how much
10   phosphorus is scheduled to be removed from that
11   project?  What is the annual load?
12       A.    I don't remember what the current estimates
13   are.  There have been a range of estimates over the
14   past several years from approximately 15 to up about
15   25 tons, and I would have to go back and check to
16   determine what the current best number was.
17       Q.    The estimate is that that 3700 acres will
18   remove anywhere from 15 to 27 tons of phosphorus per
19   year?
20       A.    On an average annual basis.
21       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, do you still believe the
22   Melaleuca poses a significant threat to the
23   Everglades?
24       A.    I do, yes.
25       Q.    Do you still believe that Melaleuca poses a

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 1   significant threat to the conservation areas today?
 2       A.    Yes.
 3       Q.    Are cattails an exotic species?
 4       A.    No.  Cattails are a native species.
 5       Q.    Native to the Everglades?
 6       A.    Native to the Everglades, yes.
 7       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, do you remember back -- you
 8   worked on the Lake Okeechobee SWIM plan, too, did you
 9   not?
10       A.    Yes, I did.
11       Q.    Do you remember the questions that arose at
12   that time regarding the Corps of Engineers'
13   application of 400 pounds a year of fertilizers on
14   the levees?
15       A.    I recollect that being a question, yes.
16       Q.    Is that still going on?
17       A.    My understanding was that the Corps of
18   Engineers changed their formulation to a much lower
19   loading rate for fertilizer, and I believe they also
20   shifted to a slow release form of the fertilizer in
21   addition to reducing the formulation.  That is my
22   general recollection of the answer.
23       Q.    Do they maintain the levees round the lake;
24   correct?
25       A.    Around Lake Okeechobee, yes.

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 1       Q.    The District maintains the levees
 2   elsewhere?
 3       A.    That is correct.
 4       Q.    Does the District apply fertilizers?
 5       A.    Not to my knowledge, no.
 6       Q.    Do you know what the annual loading the
 7   Corps is currently using on its levees?
 8       A.    I'm sorry, I do not.
 9             MS. PONZOLI:  Mr. Earl, may we take five
10        minutes?
11             MR. EARL:  Sure.
12             (Thereupon, a recess was taken.)
13   BY MR. EARL:
14       Q.    Are you ready, Mr. Rhoads?
15       A.    Yes, sir.
16       Q.    You talked about Iron Bridge; the site of
17   that.  Tell me what that project is.  You have been
18   up there, haven't you?
19       A.    Yes, I have been up there several times.  I
20   believe it is approximately 1300 acres, and that is a
21   former pasture that's been created into a wetland for
22   the purpose of removing nutrients from treated waste
23   water effluents from the Iron Bridge Treatment Plant.
24   It is a multi-compartment vegetative system.  Those
25   are the essential characteristics.

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 1       Q.    Vegetated with what; bullrush?
 2       A.    Various types of vegetation.  Cattail,
 3   bullrush, assorted other aquatic vegetation.
 4       Q.    Number of acres?
 5       A.    1300, if I remember correctly.
 6       Q.    Okay.  Inflow concentrations?
 7   Approximately.
 8       A.    Yeah.  For some reason, I am drawing a
 9   blank on that.  I think in the -- no.  I don't
10   remember.  I remember outflow concentrations, but I
11   don't remember the inflow concentrations.
12       Q.    100 parts per billion, 200 parts per
13   billion coming in?
14       A.    I seem to remember it was higher than that.
15   I seem to remember inflow concentrations upwards of
16   point 4, point 5 parts per billion phosphorus.
17       Q.    Point 4 to point 5?
18       A.    That is my recollection.
19       Q.    Parts per million?
20       A.    Parts per million, which is what, 400, 500
21   PPB, but that -- I am digging for that number for
22   you, Counselor.
23       Q.    And what is the annual loading?
24       A.    I'm sorry, I don't remember.  Haven't
25   consulted those figures recently.

                                                 337

 1       Q.    Again, I am just trying -- is it 200 tons a
 2   year or is it 50 tons or -- I am just trying to --
 3       A.    Yeah.  I don't remember.  I'm sorry.
 4       Q.    Okay.  How long has it been in operation?
 5       A.    Three or four years, I believe.
 6       Q.    Are the soils comparable to those in the
 7   ENR?
 8       A.    Basically not, no.
 9       Q.    What kind of soil is it?
10       A.    It is a sandy soil, predominantly sandy
11   soil.
12       Q.    Any other variables that are different than
13   you anticipate in the ENR?
14       A.    Yes.  The constancy of the waste water
15   inflow from a volumetric viewpoint.
16       Q.    Is constant?
17       A.    Basically constant.  Certainly much less
18   fluctuation than you would encounter in an
19   agricultural runoff setting.  Volume, variability,
20   inflow concentration is different.
21             Now, the more I think about it, I think the
22   inflow concentrations may not be too much different.
23   But again, I am stretching.  I am stretching,
24   Counsel.
25       Q.    Okay.  Now, you say the volume flows are

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 1   fairly regular.  Inflows?
 2       A.    Typically waste water.
 3       Q.    So this doesn't treat stormwater, just
 4   strictly waste water?
 5       A.    Treats treated waste water.
 6       Q.    Is there any particular reason this project
 7   was selected over other waste water to wetland
 8   treatment systems?
 9       A.    The Iron Bridge project?
10       Q.    Yes.
11       A.    It is the closest geographically that I am
12   aware of.
13       Q.    You mean just because it is in Orlando?
14       A.    It is in Orlando.  The climatological
15   variables, the temperature variables are less.
16       Q.    The climate is different, however, isn't
17   it?
18       A.    It is different, yes.
19       Q.    And, therefore, temperature variances?
20       A.    There are some differences.
21       Q.    Now, I have limited you to Florida when you
22   were talking about available technology.  Is it based
23   on projects outside of Florida?
24       A.    Is what based on?
25       Q.    I'm sorry.  When we started this line of

                                                 339

 1   discussion, we were discussing the 50 parts per
 2   billion.  You told me the staff had assumed that that
 3   was available technology, and I asked you to describe
 4   in Florida where that technology was available, and
 5   you said the Water Conservation Area 2 and Iron
 6   Bridge.  Let me just finish off Florida.  Are there
 7   any other projects or sites in Florida where this
 8   technology is available?
 9       A.    I believe there are some.  I can't cite you
10   any specific examples.
11       Q.    Who would know that?
12       A.    I defer to Dr. Sue Newman on our research
13   department staff on that issue.
14       Q.    Is the soil in Water Conservation Area 2
15   immediately south of those S-10 structures, is it
16   different than the soil at the proposed ENR site, to
17   your knowledge?
18       A.    Not basically different.  There may be some
19   fine differences in detail, but I believe they are
20   basically the same soils.  They are organic soils.
21       Q.    It was my understanding that the contour in
22   the southern boundary of the EAA was determined by
23   the Soil Conservation Service Survey and soil types,
24   and that the southern boundary was a demarcation line
25   in soil types.  Is that not your understanding?

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 1       A.    That is my understanding also.
 2       Q.    Am I correct in understanding that
 3   immediately south of the S-10 structures there is a
 4   Loxahatchee peat soil there?
 5       A.    I believe that is correct, yes.
 6       Q.    Does the ENR project site have Loxahatchee
 7   peat soil?
 8       A.    I believe it does, but I'm not sure.  I
 9   don't remember the specific peat classifications.
10       Q.    Again, who would know that?  Dr. Newman?
11       A.    Dr. Newman, I believe, would be the
12   appropriate one.
13       Q.    I gather soil types are significant.
14       A.    Yes.
15       Q.    Are you aware of any sites outside of
16   Florida where this technology has been demonstrated
17   and utilized?
18       A.    I know that sites exist, but I'm not
19   personally familiar with them.
20       Q.    Okay.  Who would I ask for that, sir?
21       A.    Again, I would suggest Dr. Newman would be
22   the source I would turn to for that information.
23       Q.    What is the difference between an STA and a
24   WMA, if you know?
25       A.    I don't believe there is any difference.

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 1   There is just a difference in name.
 2       Q.    Why was the decision made to change the
 3   name of what had been called the Water Management
 4   Areas into STAs?
 5       A.    The basic rationale that I remember was
 6   that the term water management area was too broad.
 7   It encompassed potential recreational opportunities
 8   and environmental restoration objectives, which were
 9   not a key component of the treatment objective of the
10   areas, so the term stormwater treatment area was
11   considered to be a more appropriate title for the
12   artificial marshes.
13       Q.    Who made the decision to change the name of
14   those things?
15       A.    I don't know who made that specific
16   decision.
17       Q.    Do the -- strike that.
18             What is a bypass in terms of STAs?
19       A.    The term bypass has been applied in several
20   different manners during the conceptual design of the
21   stormwater treatment areas.  It's been applied in a
22   high flow mode to cover the situation where the
23   inflow capacity of a stormwater treatment area were
24   exceeded.  Then I could, in theory, bypass a portion
25   of the water so that it didn't go into the stormwater

                                                 342

 1   treatment area, but went on out into the Everglades
 2   system.  In other words, a high flow bypass.  It's
 3   also been used in a low flow context.  If water were
 4   being moved through the canal system, say for water
 5   supply purposes during a drought period, when the
 6   Everglades were essentially dry, you could bypass a
 7   stormwater treatment area, keeping the water within
 8   canal banks, and move it to its destination without
 9   it impacting or affecting the adjacent marshes.  So
10   the term bypass, in my recollection, has been applied
11   in both those situations.
12       Q.    Do the STAs, as configured in the SWIM
13   plan, do they have bypasses for unusual storm events?
14       A.    I don't remember specifically how that was
15   handled.
16       Q.    What is your understanding of the STAs as
17   presently being evaluated and developed by the
18   District?  Do they have bypasses?
19       A.    The STAs are currently being re-evaluated
20   by District consultants, and the use of the term
21   inflow bypass is, I believe, a conventional
22   application of the term.  I believe the systems had
23   been designed so that a high flow bypass is not
24   necessary.  In other words, the inflow capacity to
25   the stormwater treatment areas equate to the current

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 1   removal capacities from the area, so there is no
 2   difference there.
 3       Q.    It is designed to encompass all storm
 4   events?
 5       A.    All storm events that the existing system
 6   could handle could be handled by the stormwater
 7   treatment areas; the STAs.  That is my understanding
 8   of the current design concept.
 9       Q.    So there is no high flow and there is a low
10   flow?
11       A.    That is essentially correct.  I do hasten
12   to add that there is ongoing engineering on these
13   issues.
14       Q.    Now, when is that going to be finalized,
15   the STA engineering, sir?
16       A.    That is being carried out as a part of the
17   alternatives evaluation effort that I mentioned on
18   Monday.  We expect all of those efforts to be
19   completed in January or February of this coming year.
20       Q.    And will that also be a part of the optimal
21   plan?  Will that be presented to the board in May?
22       A.    Yes.  As I indicated earlier, all of the
23   alternatives, we are attempting to analyze them to
24   the maximum extent possible in parallel equally, and
25   that would feed into the optimal plan the board will

                                                 344

 1   make.
 2       Q.    I believe you told the Governing Board in
 3   September that your understanding was that the SWIM
 4   plan would not be -- implementation of the SWIM plan
 5   would not be delayed by any appeals after the
 6   hearing; is that correct?
 7       A.    Yes.  Our counsel advised that the best
 8   current assumption for scheduling purposes was that
 9   appeals after February of 1994 would not stay the
10   implementation of the SWIM plan.
11       Q.    Help me.  Where does the February date come
12   from, February '94?
13       A.    That is the staffs best estimate of when
14   the SWIM challenge, permit challenge, series of
15   events should reach conclusion.  In other words, the
16   process we are involved in right now, the hearing in
17   April and the subsequent events after the hearing,
18   including the estimated time necessary to merge the
19   permit challenge with the SWIM plan challenge.
20       Q.    Tell me what the District's estimate of
21   that is, how that works.
22       A.    The whole series of events, we currently --
23   our best estimate is that by February of 1994, we
24   will have a final SWIM plan and a final DER permit.
25       Q.    But if you can, take me back to the

                                                 345

 1   constituents of that.  When does the hearing officer
 2   issue an order, come back to the Governing Board?
 3   What is the current planning on that?
 4       A.    I do not remember the details between the
 5   completion of the hearing sometime in May of 1993 and
 6   the February, '94 date.  It was included in that
 7   handout that I provided at the September Governing
 8   Board meeting.
 9       Q.    Could it -- just to save time, can we talk
10   about that tomorrow?  If you could bring the graphic,
11   it would help.
12             MS. BIRCH:  That's already been provided,
13        Mr. Earl.
14             MR. EARL:  Well, I don't have it with me.
15        I apologize.  But if it is readily available, if
16        he can bring it to the deposition, we can save
17        some time and talk about it.
18             MS. BIRCH:  Okay.
19             MR. EARL:  Thank you.
20             MS. BIRCH:  To save time, we'll provide it.
21   BY MR. EARL:
22       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, in your understanding in terms
23   of Everglades issues, is a 4.5 milligram per liter
24   value for DO a relatively high value to meet for
25   South Florida conditions?

                                                 346

 1             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  I don't
 2        think there is anything that indicates
 3        Mr. Rhoads particularly has expertise in this
 4        area.
 5             THE WITNESS:  Based on my general
 6        experience with dissolved oxygen levels in the
 7        Water Conservation Area, that is a moderately
 8        high value.
 9   BY MR. EARL:
10       Q.    Isn't it true, Mr. Rhoads, when you're
11   dealing with shallow water, a lot of biota, heavy
12   respiration at night, such as you have in the
13   Everglades, the DO drops down?
14       A.    That is true.
15             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.  Assumes
16        facts that you haven't established.
17   BY MR. EARL:
18       Q.    You can answer the question.
19       A.    In general, yes.  The dissolved oxygen
20   levels in the Everglades tend to show substantial
21   diurnal fluctuations.
22       Q.    That means it goes up and down?
23       A.    By day.
24       Q.    And this dropping DO below the 4.5 level is
25   fairly common in the Everglades, isn't it, sir?

                                                 347

 1       A.    Yes, it is.
 2       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, is it true that over the past
 3   decade, experimental research to quantify the present
 4   qualitative nutrient criteria for the State of
 5   Florida has not been conducted?
 6             MS. PONZOLI:  May I hear the question
 7        again, please.
 8             (Thereupon, a portion of the record
 9              was read by the reporter.)
10             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form.
11             MS. BIRCH:  Object to the form and to the
12        broadness of the question and the qualifications
13        of Mr. Rhoads to answer that question.
14             THE WITNESS:  I'm not familiar in detail
15        with the studies that have been conducted during
16        that period; however, I am aware that some study
17        has been conducted on that subject.
18   BY MR. EARL:
19       Q.    Do you ever recalling making a statement
20   over the past decade, "Experimental research to
21   quantitatively define the present qualitative
22   nutrients criteria in the State of Florida has not
23   been conducted"?
24       A.    I don't remember having said that.
25             MS. PONZOLI:  Mr. Earl, since you have

                                                 348

 1        taken transcripts of nearly every time
 2        Mr. Rhoads has ever spoken in public and had a
 3        court reporter there, I'm sure you have many,
 4        many quotes by Mr. Rhoads.  Maybe you should
 5        share them with him as you are going through
 6        your recitations of them back to him.  Provide
 7        him with a list of all 400 or however many you
 8        have.
 9   BY MR. EARL:
10       Q.    Is it also true that such research
11   specifically for the Everglades has to be done?
12       A.    Yes, that is correct.  That work's needed.
13       Q.    Is it also true that research still needs
14   to be done to determine how much phosphorus is
15   dangerous out there in the Water Conservation Areas?
16             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.
17             MS. BIRCH:  Object to form.
18             MS. PONZOLI:  We realize you must be
19        quoting Mr. Rhoads, but I still I think this is
20        just really ridiculous, Mr. Earl.
21             THE WITNESS:  To precisely quantify
22        appropriate thresholds, additional work would be
23        required.
24   BY MR. EARL:
25       Q.    And is additional work required to

                                                 349

 1   determine how much phosphorus is dangerous out there?
 2       A.    I'm not sure if the term "dangerous" is an
 3   appropriate application in this situation.
 4       Q.    Okay.  Is anybody at the District, separate
 5   and apart from the work going on under the TOC
 6   process, is anybody at the District doing ongoing
 7   studies right now to determine this nutrient
 8   threshold?
 9       A.    Not to my knowledge, no.
10       Q.    Do you know anybody outside the District,
11   contractors or otherwise, who is doing such research?
12       A.    I believe Curtis Richardson is doing some
13   work which may fall within this area, but I'm not
14   familiar in detail with his work.
15       Q.    Anyone other than Dr. Richardson?
16       A.    Not to my knowledge.
17       Q.    Mr. Rhoads, who owns Water Conservation
18   Area 2A?  Do you know?
19       A.    The majority of the land within the
20   boundaries of Conservation Area 2A is in public
21   ownership.  I believe there are isolated parcels of
22   private ownership where the public has a flowage
23   easement on the area, so there are degrees of
24   ownership within Conservation Area 2A.
25       Q.    You say public.  Is it the District, the

                                                 350

 1   trustees?
 2       A.    One of the other trustees of the Internal
 3   Improvement Trust Fund, Water Management District,
 4   the School Board, the governmental entity in large
 5   part.  I believe there are still a few privately
 6   owned parcels within the area.
 7       Q.    Are you aware of any Federal project
 8   restrictions on using the Water Conservation Areas to
 9   remove nutrients?
10             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to form, to his
11        ability to speak for that.
12             THE WITNESS:  I feel that question is
13        outside my expertise, Counselor.
14   BY MR. EARL:
15       Q.    Okay.  Are you aware of any?  I'm not
16   asking experts, just are you aware of any?
17       A.    I'm not aware of any.
18       Q.    Who made the decision that Water
19   Conservation Area 2 and 3 couldn't be used to remove
20   nutrients?
21             MS. PONZOLI:  Object to the form.  It
22        assumes something you haven't established as a
23        fact.
24             MS. BIRCH:  I join that objection.
25             THE WITNESS:  I don't know who made that

                                                 351

 1        decision.
 2   BY MR. EARL:
 3       Q.    Well, in light of counsel's questions, has
 4   such a decision been made, to your knowledge?
 5       A.    Our planning direction has been to pursue
 6   the solution to the water quality problems outside of
 7   the Water Conservation Areas.
 8       Q.    I understand that, but has a decision --
 9   are you aware of any decision by anyone in authority
10   to not use those areas for nutrient removal?
11       A.    In the sense that alternatives that utilize
12   those areas for nutrient removal are not under active
13   consideration at the current time, to the degree that
14   constitutes a decision, I would say yes.
15       Q.    Well, let me get specific then.  Has the
16   governing Cabinet, to your knowledge, made a decision
17   that the Water Conservation Areas can't be used to
18   remove nutrients?
19       A.    Not to my knowledge.
20       Q.    Has the Governing Board of this District
21   made a decision, to your knowledge, that the Water
22   Conservation Areas cannot be used to remove
23   nutrients?
24       A.    Not to my knowledge.
25       Q.    Are you aware of anyone else who has made

                                                 352

 1   such a decision?
 2             MS. BIRCH:  Asked and answered.
 3   BY MR. EARL:
 4       Q.    Are you?
 5       A.    I believe I responded to that earlier.  No.
 6       Q.    Okay.  Who would know that at the District?
 7   Who would I have to ask?
 8       A.    Again, the question.
 9       Q.    Who, if anyone, has made a determination
10   that the Water Conservation Areas can't be used to
11   remove nutrients?
12             MS. BIRCH:  Asked and answered, Mr. Earl.
13             MR. EARL:  He asked me what the question
14        was, Counsel.  I am trying to help him.  The
15        question he's now answering is who I will ask at
16        the District who would know that?  I'm sorry I
17        didn't make that clear.
18             THE WITNESS:  I'm not sure who to ask on
19        that, Counselor.  It is a part of the Everglades
20        SWIM Plan, as you will note.  There are not
21        alternatives that look at nutrient removal
22        within the conservation areas.
23   BY MR. EARL:
24       Q.    Is that so stated in the SWIM plan, to your
25   knowledge?

                                                 353

 1       A.    If not explicitly, it is implicit.
 2       Q.    Did you sit on LOTAC or were you an advisor
 3   of LOTAC-II?
 4       A.    I was essentially the technical staffer to
 5   LOTAC-II.
 6       Q.    Isn't it correct LOTAC-II determined the
 7   use of the water conservation for nutrient removal
 8   was not a technical question?
 9       A.    Yes, I believe they did, yeah.
10       Q.    You're generally familiar, are you not,
11   Mr. Rhoads, with the rainfall chemistry as it relates
12   to nutrients in the Everglades?
13       A.    To some degree, yes.
14       Q.    What is your understanding of the range of
15   phosphorus in rainfall in the South Florida area?
16       A.    That is a difficult question because the
17   scientists at the District who have looked at that
18   issue most recently have felt that the data base that
19   we have been using for a number of years has
20   substantial deficiencies, and so with that caveat,
21   that the most recent analysis has, you know,
22   indicated indicates that the historic data base that
23   the District has collected has some substantial
24   deficiencies, my general understanding of the range
25   of phosphorus concentrations in rainfall is roughly

                                                 354

 1   from about 20 parts per billion up to about 100 parts
 2   per billion.  Generally within that range.  The most
 3   recent information that I am familiar with, though,
 4   has clouded, in my mind, that concentration range.
 5   The difference between dry precipitation, wet
 6   precipitation, dry fall-out, bulk precipitation, the
 7   complexity associated with that issue appear to be
 8   substantially greater than I previously thought they
 9   were.
10       Q.    What scientist is working on this at the
11   District?
12       A.    I believe Dr. Grimshaw.  Jim Grimshaw has
13   done some work on that.
14       Q.    What unit is he in?
15       A.    He is in the Research Department, I
16   believe.  It may be planning.  It is one of the two;
17   planning or research.
18       Q.    Anyone else working on that issue?
19       A.    Yes, there is someone else, but
20   unfortunately, I don't remember right offhand who
21   that is.  There is another person in addition to
22   Dr. Grimshaw.
23       Q.    What are the deficiencies they have
24   identified in the historical data base?
25       A.    I've not probed into it deeply enough to

                                                 355

 1   determine the specifics of those.
 2       Q.    But I mean general areas.  What are the
 3   concerns?
 4       A.    Contamination of the samples,
 5   appropriateness of the sampling methodology.  Those
 6   were two that I remember.
 7       Q.    Any others?
 8       A.    I seem to remember there were one or two
 9   others, but I can't specifically remember what those
10   were.
11       Q.    What is the -- you said prior to some of
12   these concerns arising, you thought the range was 20
13   to 100 parts per billion.  What was that based on?
14   What sort of a sampling network, where are the
15   stations?
16       A.    That is shown in one of the figures in the
17   SWIM plan.  There is a figure that shows the location
18   of the sample sites, and shows the concentrations,
19   and shows the number of samples, I believe.  It is a
20   full page figure.  I believe it is in the thicker
21   volume of the SWIM plan.  I don't remember page
22   citation on it.
23       Q.    Okay.  What is your understanding of what
24   the network is; where is it located, how many
25   stations?

                                                 356

 1       A.    I have only vague recollections of it.  I
 2   remember at least five stations in that network.
 3   There was a station in Clewiston, West Palm Beach,
 4   there was one, I believe, down at Everglades National
 5   Park, and there were several others intervening.
 6       Q.    Who operated the network; the District?
 7       A.    The Water Chemistry Division of the
 8   District in cooperation with -- it may have been in
 9   cooperation with other people on that one who did
10   some of the operations on it.  I don't remember the
11   details.
12       Q.    Are any outside contractors working on this
13   right now?
14       A.    Not to my knowledge, no.
15       Q.    I believe in one of your reports to the
16   Governing Board you told them, "We're beefing up the
17   rainfall network."  What is going on in that regard?
18       A.    We have an ongoing relatively rigorous
19   experimental project being carried out near Clewiston
20   by the United States Geological Survey force.  It is
21   evaluating alternate methodologies, details of site
22   placement, the effect of the actual sampling area
23   with regard to structures in the vicinity, it's
24   examining and developing QA/QC procedures for the
25   sampling.  The field work has been completed, I

                                                 357

 1   believe, and the Geological Survey is in the process
 2   of preparing us a report.
 3       Q.    When do you anticipate that?
 4       A.    My recollection was quite soon.  Either
 5   September or October on that report.
 6       Q.    I did not ask the right question to get
 7   this?  I asked you about outside contractors when we
 8   were talking about rainfall.  You neglected to
 9   mention this.
10       A.    My apologies.  The US Geological Survey is
11   technically a cooperating agency because technically
12   they put in some of the money for the work that is
13   done.  When we say contractors, my normal concept is
14   a consultant that is hired specifically to do
15   something.  Geological Survey is a somewhat unusual
16   category.
17       Q.    For simplicity sake, the rest of the
18   deposition if I say contractors, can we include them
19   and other agencies?
20       A.    Sure.  I'll try to do that.
21       Q.    Okay.  They have had experimental stations
22   out there, one station?
23       A.    They have established a series of stations
24   in the Clewiston area.  At least one, two, three, I
25   believe.  One out in the marsh, one on the levee, one

                                                 358

 1   at the base of the levee.  There may be more.  And
 2   they are trying alternate sampling procedures at each
 3   of those stations and comparing their effectiveness
 4   to determine an optimal methodology for sampling
 5   nutrients and rainfall.
 6       Q.    Optimal methodology, meaning siting of the
 7   stations?
 8       A.    Sampling protocol, quality assurance,
 9   quality control procedures.  Basically, what is the
10   best method, the most cost effective method, for
11   collecting rainfall nutrient information?
12       Q.    Okay.  Are they looking at the wet fall,
13   dry fall?
14       A.    Yes.  They are making that distinction, I
15   believe.
16       Q.    What historically what has been the -- what
17   has the District been using?  Bulk precipitation?
18       A.    I believe so, yes.
19       Q.    Do I understand right the wet fall, bulk
20   precipitation encompasses everything collected; wet
21   fall and dry fall?
22       A.    That is my general understanding,
23   Counselor, although I do not profess expertise in
24   this area.  But I believe bulk precipitation means
25   everything that comes in.

                                                 359

 1       Q.    Wet fall means the constituents in actual
 2   rain?
 3       A.    That are dissolved in the rainfall.
 4       Q.    The dry fall would be the other atmospheric
 5   depositions in the collection device?
 6       A.    That is correct.  I believe that is
 7   generally correct, yes.
 8       Q.    And the combination of those two is, in
 9   your understanding, is called bulk precipitation?
10       A.    Yes.
11       Q.    What has, in the District data base, what
12   has been measured?  Is it just total phosphorus?
13       A.    You really need to talk to other staff on
14   that one, Counselor.  I don't remember the full rage
15   of parameters.  I believe other parameters were
16   sampled, but I'm not sure.
17       Q.    To save you a second, I am just focusing on
18   phosphorus.  What form of phosphorus; total
19   phosphorus?
20       A.    I believe so.  I believe it focused on
21   total phosphorus, but I'm not sure of that.
22       Q.    Anything else going on in the rainfall area
23   in terms of analysis work that we haven't talked
24   about?
25       A.    The US Geological Survey study is intended

                                                 360

 1   as the prototype study for expansion of the District
 2   network.  When this experimental work is completed
 3   and an appropriate protocol established, we intend to
 4   use that to expand, to beef up, the District sampling
 5   network.
 6       Q.    Who was responsible for this in the past;
 7   the sampling and collection of rainfall at the
 8   District?
 9       A.    Over the years, its generally been the
10   Water Chemistry Division.
11       Q.    Who, until this recent change here, who was
12   responsible for that?  Who is responsible for that?
13             MS. BIRCH:  Object to the form of the
14        question.  What recent change are you talking
15        about, Mr. Earl?
16   BY MR. EARL:
17       Q.    Well, we are now questioning the collection
18   methodology, and I'm trying to find out who was doing
19   the collection and the work and responsible for it.
20       A.    A variety of people over the years.
21       Q.    Who most recently?
22       A.    Most recently, I suspect Tom Fontaine would
23   be the most recent person.  The responsibility
24   generally rested with the Director of Water Quality
25   Division.  Since we no longer have a Water Quality

                                                 361

 1   Division, though, yeah.
 2       Q.    Okay.  Well, I have about four minutes of.
 3   Your counsel has suggested it would be appropriate,
 4   and I am agreeable, to adjourn at 5:00 o'clock.
 5       A.    If you are agreeable.
 6       Q.    I understand you would like that.
 7       A.    I appreciate that.
 8       Q.    Okay.  Let's adjourn.
 9             MS. BIRCH:  Do you want to go on or would
10        you like to stop?
11             THE WITNESS:  I appreciate the opportunity
12        to stop.
13             MS. BIRCH:  Okay.  We'll stop.
14             (Thereupon, a recess was taken.)
15 
16           (Thereupon, at 5:00 p.m.,
17            the deposition was continued)
18 

                                                 362

 1                    C E R T I F I C A T E
   
 2 
     The State of Florida     )
 3   County of Palm Beach.    )
   
 4 
               I, Elaine V.  Williams, Professional
 5   Reporter and Notary Public, State of Florida at
     large, do hereby certify that Peter Rhoads was by me
 6   first duly sworn to testify the whole truth; that I
     was authorized to and did report said deposition in
 7   stenotype; and that the foregoing pages, numbered
     from 215 to 362, inclusive, are a true and correct
 8   transcription of my shorthand notes of said
     deposition.
 9 
               I further certify that the said deposition
10   was taken at the time and place hereinabove set forth
     and that the taking of said deposition was commenced
11   and completed as hereinabove set out.
   
12             I further certify that I am not attorney or
     counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or
13   employee of any attorney or counsel or party
     connected with the action, nor am I financially
14   interested in the action.
   
15             The foregoing certification of this
     transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the
16   same by any means unless under the direct control
     and/or direction of the certifying reporter.
17 
               In witness whereof I have hereunto set my
18   hand and seal this ____ day of_____________ 1992.
   
19 
   
20 
                        _______________________________
21                      Elaine V. Williams, CP, CM
                        Notary Public, State of Florida
22                      at large.  My commission expires
                        March 27, 1993.

                                                 363

 1                    C E R T I F I C A T E
 2                         -  -  -
 3 
 4   The State of Florida,   )
 5   County of Palm Beach.   )
 6 
 7 
 8             I hereby certify that I have read the
 9   foregoing deposition by me given, and that the
10   statements contained therein are true and correct to
11   the best of my knowledge and belief.
12 
13             Dated this ____ day of______________ 1992.
14 
15 
16 
17 
18                           _________________________
19                               Peter Rhoads
20 

                                                 364

 1   DATE:  October 8, 1992
 2   TO:  Peter Rhoads
          South Florida Water Management
 3        3301 Gun Club Road
          West Palm Beach, Florida 33416
 4 
     RE:  Sugar Cane Growers v SFWMD
 5 
              Please take notice that on September 30, 1992 you
 6   gave your deposition in the above referred matter.
     At that time you did not waive signature.  It is now
 7   necessary that you sign your deposition.
   
 8             Please come to our office, 319 Clematis
     Street, Suite 500, West Palm Beach, Florida, at any
 9   time between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m.,
     Monday through Friday, to sign the deposition.
10   Notice that this address may be different than the
     one where you gave your deposition.
11 
               If you do not appear to sign your
12   deposition within thirty (30) days, the original will
     be forwarded to the attorney who requested your
13   appearance for deposition, for filing with the Clerk
     of the Court.  If you wish to waive your signature,
14   sign your name in the blank at the bottom of this
     page and return to us.
15 
                             Very truly yours,
16 
                             MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR
17                           REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
   
18 
                             ____________________________
19                           Elaine V. Williams
                             NOTARY PUBLIC
20 
   
21   I do hereby waive my signature:
   
22 
     ______________________________
23   Peter Rhoads
   
24   cc:
     cc:
25   cc: