215

1 Division of Administrative Hearings

2 Department of Administration, State of Florida

3

SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE )

4 of FLORIDA; ROTH FARMS, INC.; and )

WEDGWORTH FARMS, Inc., )

5 Petitioners )

V DOAH Case No. 92-3038

6 SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )

DISTRICT, an agency of the State )

7 of Florida; et al., )

Respondents. )

8

FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.; )

9 UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; )

and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC., )

10 Petitioners, )

V DOAH Case No. 92-3039

11 SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )

DISTRICT, an agency of the State )

12 of Florida; et al., )

Respondents. )

13

FLORIDA FRUIT and VEGETABLE )

14 ASSOCIATION; LEWIS POPE FARMS; )

W. E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., )

15 and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., )

Petitioners, )

16 V DOAH Case No. 92-3040

SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )

17 DISTRICT, an agency of the State )

of Florida; et al., )

18 Respondents. )

19

Deposition of Peter Rhoads

20 VOLUME II

21 Taken before Elaine V. Williams,

Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for

22 the State of Florida at large, pursuant to notice of

taking deposition filed by the Petitioners in the

23 above cause.

- - -

24 Wednesday, September 30, 1992

3301 Gun Club Road

25 West Palm Beach, Florida 33416

12:50 - 5:00 p.m.

216

1 APPEARANCES:

2

On behalf of the Petitioners Florida Sugar

3 Cane League, Inc., United States Sugar Corp.,

and New South Hope, Inc.:

4 Peeples, Earl & Blank, P.A.

One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636

5 Two South Biscayne Boulevard

Miami, Florida 33131

6 By: WILLIAM EARL, ESQUIRE

JONATHAN L. GAINES, ESQUIRE

7

On behalf of the Respondent SFWMD:

8 South Florida Water Management District

3301 Gun Club Road

9 West Palm Beach, Florida 33416-4680

By: JACQUELYN W. BIRCH, ESQUIRE

10

On behalf of the Intervenor, United States of America:

11 Department of Justice

155 South Miami Avenue, Suite 627

12 Miami, Florida 33130-1693

BY: SUZAN HILL PONZOLI, ESQUIRE

13

14

- - -

217

1 - - -

2 I N D E X

3 - - -

4

5 WITNESS: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

6 Peter Rhoads

7

BY MR. EARL: 218(continued)

8

9 - - -

10 E X H I B I T S

11 - - -

12

13 NUMBER PAGE NO.

14

15

16

218

1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 - - -

3 Thereupon,

4 Peter Rhoads,

5 being by the undersigned Notary Public previously duly

6 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

7 THE WITNESS: I do.

8 CONTINUED DIRECT (Peter Rhoads)

9 MR. EARL: Can we go back on the record,

10 please?

11 BY MR. EARL:

12 Q. Mr. Rhoads, we are resuming your

13 deposition. I remind you, you are under oath.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Mr. Rhoads, is it true that the works of

16 the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control

17 project have substantially changed the flow of water

18 in the Everglades?

19 MS. BIRCH: Object to the form.

20 MR. EARL: Pardon me?

21 MS. BIRCH: I say object to the form.

22 MR. EARL: Why?

23 MS. BIRCH: What is the meaning of

24 substantial?

25 MR. EARL: I don't know.

219

1 MS. PONZOLI: Well, then I'm going to

2 object to the form also.

3 BY MR. EARL:

4 Q. Have you ever said anything like that,

5 Mr. Rhoads?

6 A. I believe I have, Counsel.

7 Q. You know what it means, don't you,

8 substantially, in that context?

9 A. In my definition, yes.

10 Q. Okay. Why don't you tell counsel what that

11 means in your definition.

12 MS. BIRCH: Well, I think he is trying to

13 respond to your questions, Mr. Earl.

14 MR. EARL: Right. And you had a question

15 about what substantially meant. Now I'm asking

16 him to explain it for all of our benefit.

17 THE WITNESS: The term substantial means,

18 in my opinion, a major, a big, a measurable

19 difference. I have used that phrase on numerous

20 occasions.

21 BY MR. EARL:

22 Q. So you would also then agree that the

23 Central and Southern Florida Flood Control project

24 has made a major, big difference in terms of the flow

25 of water in the Everglades?

220

1 A. Yes, I would generally agree with that.

2 Q. Okay. Has the work of that project also

3 substantially changed the distribution of water in

4 the Everglades?

5 A. Yes, I believe that is correct.

6 Q. Would you also agree with the statement

7 that the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control

8 Project has substantially changed and had adverse

9 effects upon the Everglades?

10 A. Yes, that is correct.

11 Q. What is hydroperiod, Mr. Rhoads?

12 A. In common parlance around the District, the

13 term hydroperiod means the length of time that a

14 parcel of land is inundated. It's been often

15 construed to mean the depth of duration. It, in

16 essence, is the length of time that a parcel of land

17 is inundated, basically.

18 Q. Is that also used to mean how much, how

19 deep and how long it's been inundated?

20 A. Yes, in general, general parlance, that is

21 correct.

22 Q. And is hydroperiod in its origins a

23 biological concept.

24 A. Yes, it is primarily a biological concept

25 rather than hydrologic.

221

1 Q. In your capacity as Everglades Restoration

2 Director, could you describe for me the problems the

3 Everglades is suffering as a result of hydroperiod

4 with reference to specific geographic areas, if you

5 can?

6 MS. PONZOLI: Would you read the question

7 back, please.

8 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

9 was read by the reporter.)

10 BY MR. EARL:

11 Q. And to make that a little even more

12 specific, Mr. Rhoads, as a result of the design and

13 construction operation of the Central and Southern

14 Florida Flood Control Project?

15 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form. It is a

16 compound question.

17 BY MR. EARL:

18 Q. Do you understand the question, sir?

19 MS. PONZOLI: It also calls for a narrative

20 which isn't really a proper form of a question,

21 but you have been doing it repeatedly.

22 THE WITNESS: The predominant problem of a

23 hydroperiod problem in the Everglades is the

24 overdrainage of the northern portion of Water

25 Conservation Area 3A. This is a portion of the

222

1 Everglades that historically received overland

2 flow from the north, and with the construction

3 of the containment levee system for the

4 Everglades Agricultural Area, significant

5 portions of that area no longer receive upland

6 flow from its northern boundary, and as a

7 result, the hydroperiod, the length of time that

8 those areas are inundated by water, are

9 substantially less than they were historically.

10 That's, in my opinion, the major hydroperiod

11 problem of the Everglades.

12 BY MR. EARL:

13 Q. Is a component of that the fact that sheet

14 flow has been replaced by four large pump stations

15 that put water in a single point?

16 A. The distributional changes that were

17 brought about by the pump stations inputting water at

18 specific points rather than the prior overland flow

19 coming across as a sheet, I think that is a fair

20 characterization cause of the problem. One cause of

21 the problem.

22 Q. And would that same situation exist -- are

23 you talking about the pump stations S-5A, 6, 7, 8?

24 Is that correct?

25 A. To a lesser degree, that type of phenomenon

223

1 does occur at S-5A, S-6 and S-7.

2 Q. Okay. To a lesser degree. Where does it

3 occur to a more substantial degree?

4 A. Beg pardon?

5 Q. You say to a lesser degree. Are you

6 talking --

7 A. What I mean by that is that the hydroperiod

8 impacts in the northern portion of Conservation Area

9 3A are the most pronounced hydroperiod impacts, in my

10 opinion. Similar type impacts occur in the northern

11 portion in the apex of Conservation Area 2A and to a

12 lesser degree in the northern portion of Water

13 Conservation Area 1.

14 Q. And those are all a result of structures

15 which are a part of the Central and Southern Florida

16 Flood Control Project, sir?

17 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

18 THE WITNESS: In large part, yes.

19 BY MR. EARL:

20 Q. You say in large part. I have to ask you

21 what's the remaining components?

22 A. The distributional components of the

23 hydroperiod problem of the Everglades is only one.

24 There is a timing component also of when the water

25 comes, and that timing component is determined in

224

1 part by the structural facilities, but it is also

2 determined in part by the upstream inflows. In other

3 words, when the water is delivered to the Central and

4 Southern Florida project.

5 Q. In that you would include releases from

6 Lake Okeechobee, for example?

7 A. Releases from Lake Okeechobee, runover from

8 the farm lands of the Everglades Agricultural Area,

9 inflows from adjacent areas, yes.

10 Q. You mentioned the apex of 2A. What

11 specifically caused the problem up there? What

12 structurally?

13 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

14 THE WITNESS: The northern apex of

15 Conservation Area 2A up until the mid 1980's

16 when structure S-10E was constructed by the

17 Water Management District with approval from the

18 Corps of Engineers, prior to that point in time

19 the apex of Conservation Area 2A had essentially

20 no surface water inflow. The levee system had

21 intercepted the historic overland flow input

22 into that area, and as a result, rainfall was

23 the primary water source.

24 BY MR. EARL:

25 Q. When you say the levee, you are talking

225

1 about the levee, part of the Federal project;

2 correct?

3 A. That is correct.

4 Q. And you mentioned also the problem in the

5 northern portion of Water Conservation Area 1;

6 correct?

7 A. That is correct.

8 Q. And would you describe the structural

9 design problems that caused that?

10 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

11 MR. EARL: Grounds?

12 MS. PONZOLI: Oh, I think you're implying

13 that whatever problem is there is only due to

14 the structure. That is my only objection.

15 MR. EARL: Okay.

16 THE WITNESS: The hydroperiod in the

17 northern portion of Conservation Area 1 is, in

18 all likelihood, shorter than it was historically

19 because primarily of the canal system. The

20 borrow canals serve to drain that northern apex

21 of Conservation Area 1, and because of that

22 difference in elevation between the profile of

23 the canal and the ground elevation, that area

24 has a shorter hydroperiod.

226

1 BY MR. EARL:

2 Q. When you talk about the borrow canals, do I

3 understand you as talking about the canals on the

4 interior side of the levees in the Water Conservation

5 Area 1?

6 A. That is correct.

7 Q. Okay. And am I also correct in

8 understanding that was part of the Corps of

9 Engineers' construction design; to get the fill

10 materials from inside the levee?

11 A. Yes, that is correct.

12 Q. And do I also understand correctly that the

13 Corps of Engineers had similar plans when they

14 constructed Water Conservation Area 2B, but did not

15 implement them?

16 A. Roughly similar plans that were not

17 implemented. The proposed canal across Conservation

18 Area 2A was not a borrow canal, it was a conveyance

19 canal across the area.

20 Q. And was that failure to construct largely

21 the result of the work of Mr. Dineen?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. What other hydroperiod problems have been

24 created by the design and construction of the Federal

25 project?

227

1 A. The hydroperiod generally in both

2 conservation area 2B and 3B is, in all likelihood,

3 considerably shorter than it was under conditions

4 prior to man's influence in the area. Because of the

5 levee system, because of seepage losses from those

6 two areas, the hydroperiod in general in both of

7 those Water Conservation Areas is almost certainly

8 considerably shorter than it was historically.

9 Q. And what are the ecological impacts of

10 that?

11 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

12 MR. EARL: Grounds?

13 MS. PONZOLI: Well, I guess unless he is

14 talking about Everglades crayfish, I'm not sure

15 Mr. Rhoads would be the one to answer that

16 question.

17 BY MR. EARL:

18 Q. You may answer, sir.

19 A. Could you repeat the question, please?

20 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

21 was read by the reporter.)

22 THE WITNESS: I am comfortable in

23 responding in general terms.

24 BY MR. EARL:

25 Q. In terms of Everglades restoration issues.

228

1 A. That the ecosystem in that area has adapted

2 to the shorter hydroperiod condition. Both the flora

3 and the fauna currently existing in that area are the

4 components that you would expect to find under a

5 shortened hydroperiod condition, rather than the

6 lengthier hydroperiod condition that existed

7 historically in those areas.

8 Q. So you're aware of no adverse ecological

9 effects from the shortened hydroperiod in 2B and 3B?

10 A. No, I did not say that.

11 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

12 BY MR. EARL:

13 Q. Okay, sir. What adverse effects are you

14 aware of, sir?

15 A. Again, responding in general terms, the

16 productivity of a shorter hydroperiod marsh in the

17 Everglades is generally less than the productivity of

18 a longer hydroperiod marsh, so in general terms, the

19 shortened, abbreviated hydroperiod of those areas

20 contributes to less production than the normal

21 Everglades habitat would, and that I would consider

22 to be an adverse impact.

23 Q. Any other adverse impacts?

24 A. There may very well be other adverse

25 impacts. I have not studied that issue recently or

229

1 put in any serious thought or consideration on it.

2 Q. Okay. You talked about the cutting off of

3 sheet flow in the northern portion of Conservation

4 Area 3; correct?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. What are the adverse ecological impacts of

7 that, sir?

8 A. In general terms, one of the most severe

9 impacts is the increased occurrence of fire in that

10 habitat under the shortened hydroperiod condition.

11 The area tends to dry out sooner, the soil profile of

12 peat tends to have less soil moisture during the fire

13 season, and as a result, as the peat tends to burn,

14 the perimeters of tree islands tend to burn, and that

15 alteration of the habitat is essentially irrevocable

16 in human time frames.

17 Q. Irrevocable, meaning irreversible?

18 A. Irreversible.

19 Q. Increased occurrence of fire. What other

20 adverse impacts?

21 A. I believe there are other impacts, but I

22 haven't considered that issue in depth lately and

23 haven't thought that through --

24 Q. Okay.

25 A. -- at length.

230

1 Q. Any vegetative changes up there that you

2 are aware of?

3 A. Yes, one could expect vegetative changes to

4 occur in response to the shortened hydroperiod, and

5 faunal changes also changing in the animal population

6 is in response to an abbreviated hydroperiod.

7 Q. Has sawgrass been replaced in that area?

8 MS. BIRCH: Mr. Earl, I just need a

9 clarification. Are you asking Mr. Rhoads these

10 questions related to overall Everglades

11 Restoration or are you asking him as a

12 scientist?

13 MR. EARL: I'm asking him in his capacity

14 as the Everglades Restoration Coordinator.

15 Whatever he knows. The kinds of things he tells

16 the board every month and says at workshops.

17 THE WITNESS: I need a repeat on the

18 question, please.

19 MR. EARL: Would you read back the last

20 question, please?

21 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

22 was read by the reporter.)

23 THE WITNESS: Based upon my last overflight

24 in that area, sawgrass continues to be the

25 dominant vegetation in that area; however, the

231

1 sawgrass does not exhibit the vigor that one

2 would expect in a longer hydroperiod Everglades

3 habitat.

4 BY MR. EARL:

5 Q. My question, I think, was a little bit

6 different. Has sawgrass been replaced, to your

7 knowledge?

8 A. Been replaced by what?

9 Q. By other vegetation.

10 A. By other vegetation?

11 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

12 MR. EARL: Grounds?

13 MS. PONZOLI: I think it is sort of vague.

14 I think you might want to quantify it or qualify

15 it somehow, Mr. Earl. It is your question.

16 THE WITNESS: Could you restate the

17 question for me.

18 BY MR. EARL:

19 Q. Sure. We were talking about the northern

20 end of Water Conservation Area 3 when you said there

21 had been a cutoff of sheet flow as a result of the

22 project, and I'm asking you whether sawgrass has been

23 replaced. You responded to me that you thought

24 sawgrass was still dominant, but it was not as robust

25 as you might otherwise expect.

232

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. And I was asking you could you please

3 respond more specifically to my question regarding

4 has sawgrass in that area been replaced by other

5 vegetation, to your knowledge?

6 A. It depends on the specific area in

7 question. On the area in the vicinity of structures

8 S-339 and 340, which are the dividing structures, the

9 Miami Canal, has more cattail than it had prior to

10 the construction of those structures. There is

11 directly adjacent to them -- cattail in that area

12 appears to have replaced sawgrass, based upon my

13 overflights and my recollection of the vegetation in

14 the area. I think generally in the northern end of

15 Conservation Area 3A there has been, at least to some

16 degree, a transition of vegetation from sawgrass to

17 brush.

18 Q. Myrtle, for example?

19 A. Myrtle, willow, the more woody species

20 typical of more terrestrial habitat.

21 Q. And would you anticipate that would be a

22 consequence of the drying out of the area?

23 A. Yes. Yes. Probably.

24 Q. Does the District, to your knowledge, have

25 any numbers regarding the aerial extent of that

233

1 displacement?

2 A. They may. I'm not aware of specific

3 numbers on aerial displacement.

4 Q. Okay. Apart from you being aware of

5 specific numbers, who would have that information at

6 the District?

7 A. I would have to guess at that, Counselor.

8 Q. Well, your informed judgment based on your

9 years at the District, sir.

10 A. Brent Moll may have that information, Ken

11 Rutchey may have that information.

12 Q. Have any studies been done up there, to

13 your knowledge, of this phenomenon?

14 A. Yes, there have been.

15 Q. Would you describe those; who did them,

16 when?

17 A. Sometime in the late 1970's a then-employee

18 of the Water Management District, a biologist, Gary

19 Pesnell, was assigned the task of examining

20 vegetative changes in Conservation Area 3A,

21 particularly with regard to the overdrainage of the

22 northern end of Conservation Area 3A. Studies were

23 designed to document the precondition, before

24 construction, of S-339 and 340, and to follow up

25 after the construction of those facilities to

234

1 determine the effectiveness of those two structures

2 in alleviating the hydroperiod problem in that area.

3 Q. Any other studies you are aware of more

4 recent?

5 A. Not that I am aware of, no.

6 Q. Okay. And you have no idea of the order of

7 magnitude of the displacement?

8 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

9 MS. BIRCH: Object. Asked and answered.

10 BY MR. EARL:

11 Q. Your answer, sir?

12 A. Quantitatively, I can't respond on that

13 one.

14 Q. Okay. Any other adverse ecological effects

15 that you are aware of in the northern component of

16 Water Conservation Area 3 as a result of the cutoff

17 of sheeting?

18 A. None that I can think of at this time.

19 Q. Okay, sir. Now, you mentioned that there

20 was a lesser but a comparable problem in the northern

21 part of Water Conservation Area 1; correct?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. And what specifically does that result

24 from?

25 A. The problem in the northern portion of

235

1 Conservation Area 1 is more a problem of the borrow

2 canal system adjacent to the marsh at the northern

3 apex both precluding the overland flow of water into

4 the area and draining water out of the area. Because

5 of the difference in the surface water profile in the

6 canal system and the ground elevation, the area at

7 the northern apex simply does not have standing water

8 on the ground to the length of time it would were the

9 canal system not there.

10 Q. That has resulted in an adverse ecological

11 consequences?

12 A. I would characterize the shift from more

13 high direction vegetation to the more terrestrial

14 vegetation as being an adverse shift, yes.

15 Q. What is high direction vegetation? Is that

16 sawgrass?

17 A. The wetlands vegetation that was there

18 previously.

19 Q. Would that include sawgrass?

20 A. That would include sawgrass, white water

21 lily, the wetlands assemblages, wet prairie

22 assemblages that probably inhabited that area.

23 Q. Okay. And that has been supplanted, sir,

24 by more terrestrial species, for example?

25 A. Pine trees exist in the areas.

236

1 Q. Other types?

2 A. Brush, myrtle, willow.

3 Q. What is the relative size of this portion

4 of the northern area? Is it the apex area of

5 Conservation Area 1? Your answer is yes, sir? She

6 needs to hear it.

7 A. I'm thinking. I'd say roughly the

8 northernmost 500 to 1500 acres of Conservation Area

9 1.

10 Q. Again, have there been studies of this

11 change?

12 A. Not to my knowledge, no.

13 Q. Is there a comparable effect other than in

14 the apex around the perimeter of these interior

15 canals as you go south in Water Conservation Area 1?

16 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form. May I

17 hear that question back again, please.

18 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

19 was read by the reporter.)

20 THE WITNESS: In some areas, yes, there is.

21 BY MR. EARL:

22 Q. Okay, sir. Which areas are those?

23 A. Generally in the northern half of the area

24 where the canal water level tends to be below ground

25 level more often than it does at the lower elevation

237

1 middle and southern portions of Conservation Area 3.

2 Those peripheral drainage effects are evident in that

3 northern area.

4 Q. Would you have any idea of the acreage that

5 would be involved in this?

6 A. Not really, no.

7 Q. Okay, sir. And do I understand you to say

8 primarily in the northern half of where the ground

9 water, where the canals are lower than the ground

10 water level? Also do I understand correctly when I

11 understand that in the southern half, as these canals

12 proceed further south down towards the S-10

13 structures, there are also some localized conditions

14 similar to this?

15 A. No. In contrast, in the southern area, the

16 converse is true much of the time. Because of the

17 drainage effect of the peripheral borrow canals, the

18 water tends to flow to the lower elevations of the

19 southern portion of the Conservation Area 1, pool,

20 and actually have an extended hydroperiod down in

21 that area, because -- you can think of it as the

22 water in the canal system supporting the longer

23 hydroperiod in the lower elevation lands in the

24 southern portion of the pool.

25 Q. You say the pool. Is that the pool behind

238

1 the S-10 structures?

2 A. The pool is a hydraulic engineer's term

3 basically referring to the water level within the

4 entire area. Within the conservation area, water

5 level is called the pool.

6 Q. And what causes that phenomenon?

7 A. As I mentioned, the canal system tends to

8 drain water from the higher elevation areas to the

9 north and move water to the lower elevation areas in

10 the southern portion of the area. The ground

11 elevation is lower in the southern portion of

12 Conservation Area 1 than it is in the northern

13 portion.

14 Q. This, in my terms, water flows downhill;

15 would that be correct?

16 A. That is correct, Counselor.

17 Q. What effects, if any, do the existence of

18 the S-10 structures have on Water Conservation Area

19 Number 1 in terms of hydroperiod as opposed to

20 pre-project?

21 A. Because the structures are only open during

22 periods of time when the water level is above the

23 regulation schedule of Conservation Area 1, and

24 because the structures are closed the rest of the

25 time generally, the structures have the effect, along

239

1 with the levee, of impounding water upstream.

2 Q. How large an area would this encompass?

3 A. At least several thousand acres.

4 Q. Which are inundated as a result of the many

5 levees in the S-10 structures; correct?

6 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

7 MS. BIRCH: What is the question?

8 THE WITNESS: Could you clarify the

9 question?

10 BY MR. EARL:

11 Q. Sure. You said several thousand acres in

12 response to my question, and I am just trying to

13 understand, that are inundated as a result of the

14 S-10 and the levees?

15 A. I think it would be more accurate to state

16 that they have a longer hydroperiod. Yes, they are

17 inundated much of the time, but they do go dry on

18 occasion, so I think it would be more correct to

19 characterize that as having a longer hydroperiod.

20 Q. The water is there longer and over a larger

21 area because of those structures in the levees;

22 correct, sir?

23 A. That is correct.

24 Q. What was the condition in that area, from

25 your understanding, of pre-project conditions prior

240

1 to the construction of the levee and the S-10

2 structures?

3 A. Counselor, I don't really fell comfortable

4 responding to that question. It's been a long time

5 since I have read some of the early accounts of

6 vegetation in that area and it's been years since I

7 have reviewed those reports.

8 Q. Well, I ask in terms of restoration issues.

9 You're dealing with the restoration of other areas of

10 the Everglades, and I wondered what that was like

11 pre-project. You have no idea?

12 A. Well, in general terms, it has probably had

13 a shorter hydroperiod. In other words, the ponding

14 effect that we see from the current facilities almost

15 certainly did not exist because the levee was not

16 there to create those effects. So in that area,

17 there was probably lower peak stages and potentially

18 a shorter hydroperiod.

19 Q. Was there also sheet flow in that area?

20 A. Yes, almost certainly there was sheet flow

21 flowing south.

22 Q. Anybody at District are you aware of who is

23 familiar with pre-project conditions this that area?

24 A. Not that I am aware of. Yes. Steve Davis

25 is probably the most knowledgeable person we

241

1 currently have on the staff regarding that area.

2 Q. You don't mean to imply Steve Davis was

3 there on the grounds prior to project.

4 A. No. Nor have I meant to imply that I was

5 there prior to the project.

6 Q. I was more asking you in an old time with

7 the District, who was there when they did the

8 engineering and who was out on the site?

9 A. The only one I knew who filled that

10 category was Walt Dineen, and Walt is no longer with

11 us.

12 Q. Now, if you can, I would like you to go to

13 the S-10 structures and south of those structures. I

14 assume those structures and the levee cut off the

15 sheet flow into Water Conservation Area 2; is that

16 correct?

17 A. That is correct.

18 Q. Is there anywhere I can go, to your

19 knowledge, that would show the pre-project flows in

20 that area, hydrologic contours?

21 A. I doubt if the pre-project flows themselves

22 exist, no.

23 Q. From your general understanding of

24 pre-project Everglades conditions, would you have

25 expected that area to be one subject to broad ranging

242

1 sheet flow?

2 A. Again, I believe I mentioned this earlier,

3 but I may not have. It depends on how far back you

4 go. Prior to the C&SF project, the Everglades

5 Drainage District had constructed the primary

6 backbone canals; the West Palm Beach, the Hillsboro

7 the North New River, Miami canals. Those facilities

8 that were completed primarily during the '20's

9 provided the first change, first alteration that

10 occurred in those areas. Since there is very little

11 quantified about how the system responded during that

12 period and the instrumentation really did not go in

13 until after the C&SF project was implemented, I need

14 to point out that caveat in our discussion on all of

15 the facilities so far. Pre-man's influence I think

16 was my understanding of your question.

17 Q. Well, yes, it was. I am glad you clarified

18 that. As I understand, this District is the

19 successor agency to the agencies that constructed

20 those canals; is that correct?

21 A. I believe, in a sense, that is correct,

22 yes.

23 Q. And then am I also correct in assuming when

24 the federal project was designed and constructed, the

25 Federal Government revised and deepened and otherwise

243

1 substantially modified those canals and their

2 utilization?

3 A. That is true.

4 MS. PONZOLI: May I hear the question,

5 please?

6 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

7 was read by the reporter.)

8 THE WITNESS: That is generally correct,

9 yes.

10 BY MR. EARL:

11 Q. Mr. Rhoads, how are you going to go about

12 fulfilling your mandate and this agency's mandates of

13 Everglades restoration in that area? How are you

14 going to determine what the base line was in terms of

15 sheet flow, for example, and water flows?

16 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form. I don't

17 think you have established what his mandate is,

18 Mr. Earl.

19 MS. BIRCH: I join that objection.

20 BY MR. EARL:

21 Q. What is your mandate in terms of Everglades

22 restoration, Mr. Rhoads?

23 MS. BIRCH: Are you asking what the

24 District mandate is or his mandate is and the

25 role of his office performance, Mr. Earl?

244

1 MR. EARL: Obviously his office is

2 coordinating restoration of the Everglades, and

3 the District is under a requirement of law to

4 restore the Everglades, as I understand, and I'm

5 asking him as the director of that operation,

6 what it is.

7 THE WITNESS: In simplest terms, it is the

8 development, modification and implementation of

9 the Everglades SWIM Plan. The organization is

10 using that as the vehicle for the restoration of

11 the Everglades. In more detailed terms, the

12 restoration of the Everglades involves

13 overcoming three general classes of problems:

14 Number one, the water quality problem; number

15 two, the hydroperiod problem; and number three,

16 the exotic species problem, particularly

17 Melaleuca invasion in the Everglades.

18 BY MR. EARL:

19 Q. And don't you also have a requirement to

20 restore the Everglades to its natural hydroperiod?

21 A. No. To the best of my knowledge, that is

22 not a mandate of the organization of the agency.

23 Q. What is your understanding of the

24 requirement in terms of hydroperiod?

25 A. In terms of hydroperiod, my understanding

245

1 is that in general terms, it is the correction of

2 certainly the most severe of the hydroperiod problems

3 that have been created in the Everglades. The exact

4 goal, how far to carry that correction of hydroperiod

5 problems, has not, to my knowledge, been clearly

6 illustrated. We have not quantified that goal,

7 developed that goal with precision at this point in

8 our planning.

9 Q. Okay. I would like to go back to the

10 delineation of these most severe hydroperiod

11 problems. I presume we have been talking about some

12 of them now.

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. And we were dealing with the Water

15 Conservation Area 2 immediately south of the S-10

16 structures. Could you explain to me what the

17 hydroperiod impacts have been, the results -- excuse

18 me. Let me start over again.

19 Could you explain to me what adverse

20 ecological effects the construction and design of the

21 Federal project have had on that area?

22 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

23 MR. EARL: Grounds?

24 MS. PONZOLI: Compound question. I think

25 it assumes a prioritization of hydroperiod

246

1 problems that may or may not be accurate. I

2 can't recall from his testimony. But it is a

3 compound question.

4 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the

5 question?

6 MR. EARL: I'll be happy to state it again.

7 BY MR. EARL:

8 Q. What, if any, adverse ecological effects

9 are you aware of as a result of the design and

10 construction of the Federal project, specifically the

11 S-10 structures and connected levees, impacting with

12 Conservation Area 2A?

13 A. What are the impacts of the structures and

14 the levees? Number one, it is disruptive. The

15 historical overland flow of water that occurred in

16 that area prior to construction of any facilities,

17 undoubtedly the current flow patterns are

18 substantially different. Those facilities also

19 provide for the introduction of water coming in from

20 the S-5A and S-6 pump station flowing across the

21 marsh in contrast to water that, prior to man's

22 influence, flowed across the marsh and entered the

23 area. In other words, on the northern upstream

24 adjacent side, there is currently a canal conveyance,

25 advancing canal, that brings water from other areas

247

1 in contrast to the marsh that existed in that area

2 historically.

3 Q. Those canals are part of the Federal

4 project; correct?

5 A. That is correct.

6 Q. So we have talked about the cutting off the

7 historical overland flow and we have talked about

8 delivering these canal waters to the area that

9 otherwise would have been disbursed over the

10 wetlands; correct?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. Any other consequences in that area?

13 A. Those are the primary ones in my mind

14 currently.

15 Q. Now, those are the physical changes. What

16 have been the ecological or biological impacts of

17 those changes, as you under them?

18 MS. PONZOLI: Same objection as before.

19 MR. EARL: What is that, Counselor?

20 MS. PONZOLI: That he is really not an

21 ecologist specialist. I don't object, you know,

22 to your asking him generally as a restoration

23 person, but if you are trying to as ascribe a

24 higher expertise, I think he disqualified

25 himself from that.

248

1 THE WITNESS: My general understanding is

2 that the hydroperiod impacts in that northern

3 area are very difficult to discern because of

4 water quality impacts. My general understanding

5 is that the water quality impacts in that area

6 are the dominant force that have affected,

7 adversely affected, the area.

8 BY MR. EARL:

9 Q. You haven't, or has anybody, to your

10 knowledge, weighted that or eliminated the

11 hydroperiod variable period there in terms of

12 analyzing those in that area?

13 A. I believe Steve Davis has considered that

14 issue in some depth, yes.

15 Q. As we sit here today, you are not aware of

16 any changes that have been made in the northern

17 portions of Water Conservation Area 2A as a result of

18 hydroperiod changes; is that correct?

19 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

20 THE WITNESS: The geographic area is

21 important here. Which area are you referring

22 to?

23 BY MR. EARL:

24 Q. Well, let's talk about the area that is

25 called the nutrient enriched area to start with,

249

1 immediately --

2 A. South of the S-10 structures.

3 Q. Any changes at all there vegetativewise

4 caused by hydroperiod that you're aware of?

5 A. There may be changes caused by hydroperiod,

6 but my understanding is that the predominant

7 ecological changes, adverse changes, are a result of

8 the nutrient loading that has occurred through the

9 S-10 structures.

10 Q. Was there any -- we talked the other day,

11 Mr. Rhoads, about the drawdowns in Water Conservation

12 Area 2A and you indicated to me those were primarily

13 in the southern portion; is that correct?

14 A. Yeah. The primary effects of those

15 drawdowns were in the southern portions of the area.

16 Q. During the flooding of that area, the

17 increased hydroperiod of that area on the operation

18 of the Federal project, you indicated flocculent

19 materials became a problem.

20 A. Yes, I did.

21 Q. Okay. Was there any flocculent material

22 generation in the northern end, the area that we are

23 talking about; the nutrient enriched area?

24 A. I suspect there was; however, my

25 observational experience in the early '70's with Walt

250

1 Dineen was based on the sloughs in the central

2 portion of the area and southern portion of the area.

3 It was in those sloughs where it was visually very

4 evident of a formation of a flocculent material,

5 generally in deeper water depth. My recollection is

6 in those areas that were commonly inundated by over

7 two to three feet, those were the areas in the

8 sloughs where you would find that loose sediment

9 problem.

10 Q. And what was the impact of that sediment

11 problem?

12 A. In general terms, that form of sediment has

13 an adverse effect upon the benthic fauna in the

14 animals that live in the bottom. A loose type of

15 substrate results in a different type of benthic

16 flora that is generally less desirable than the type

17 of benthic fauna -- excuse me -- fauna, benthic

18 fauna -- that you find on a harder substrate, which

19 is typical of the Everglades. The types of animals

20 that are there, the numbers of animals that are

21 there, the chemistries of the sediments are different

22 under those sort of conditions than what you would

23 normally expect in the Everglades.

24 Q. And that situation arises, in your

25 observations, in the central area when you had two or

251

1 three feet of water?

2 A. In the central and southern portion of the

3 area where the water tended to pond and pool, yes.

4 Q. But you think there may have been some

5 flocculent materials, some flocculent situations?

6 Have you observed them in that area immediately to

7 the south?

8 A. It is certainly possible that at that time

9 it did occur in the area. I simply didn't observe

10 it.

11 Q. As a result of the operation of the Federal

12 project and the inundation of that area, isn't it

13 also true tree islands were lost?

14 A. In general terms, yes. It probably is

15 better to say that rather than losing the tree

16 islands in terms of its elevation, the flora of the

17 tree islands was substantially altered by the

18 inundation. In other words, trees were drowned out.

19 Loss of trees.

20 Q. So the elevation remained, but the trees

21 were gone?

22 A. That is essentially it, yeah, in many

23 cases. Not in all cases, but in many cases.

24 Q. And were there, in fact, tree islands in

25 the area that is now called the nutrient enriched

252

1 area that were lost?

2 A. There may have been, but I don't remember

3 that specifically.

4 Q. And were there any other vegetative changes

5 there as a result of the inundation?

6 A. As I indicated earlier, I cannot separate

7 the hydroperiod impacts from the water quality

8 impacts in that area.

9 Q. Are you suggesting that the nutrients in

10 the waters in the central and southern portions of

11 the Water Conservation Area 2A were responsible for

12 the loss of the tree islands, the trees on the tree

13 islands?

14 A. No.

15 Q. So that wasn't nutrients, was it. Sir?

16 A. I don't understand the question.

17 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form;

18 narrative.

19 BY MR. EARL:

20 Q. That wasn't nutrients that killed the tree

21 islands, was it, sir?

22 A. No, in all likelihood, not.

23 Q. Hydroperiod causes vegetative changes,

24 doesn't it, sir? Hydroperiod changes cause

25 vegetative changes, do they not, sir?

253

1 A. Changes in inundation, hydroperiod changes

2 can result in changes in vegetation. Yes, as a

3 general statement, that is correct.

4 Q. And in your experience with the District,

5 you have seen such changes; correct?

6 A. Yes, I have.

7 Q. If we can, let's go back to the north of

8 the S-10 structures, the impounded area in Water

9 Conservation Area 1. Would you anticipate flocculent

10 material exists there?

11 A. Yes, in all likelihood.

12 Q. Would you expect if it exists there, it has

13 resulted in changes in the benthic fauna, as it did

14 in Water Conservation Area 2?

15 A. If it exists there, yes, it would result in

16 changes in the benthic fauna.

17 Q. Anybody at the District study that?

18 A. Not in that area that I remember, no.

19 There may have been work done by either Turzak

20 (phonetic) or Reeder back in the '70's or '80's. I

21 know there was work done south of the S-10 structures

22 in 2A. I don't remember whether there was work done

23 north of the S-10 structures. There may well have

24 been, but my memory fails me on the details on that.

25 Q. And would you expect that flocculent

254

1 material was generated in the area south of the 10

2 structures in what is now called the Nutrient

3 Enrichment Area during periods of high inundation?

4 A. That is possible that it was, yes. Quite

5 possible.

6 Q. And certainly, sir, would you expect if

7 such materials were generated, there would be a less

8 desirable benthic fauna resulting?

9 A. Under those conditions, yes.

10 Q. Do you know whether that's been studied?

11 A. There has been investigations carried out

12 of the benthic fauna south of the S-10 structures,

13 yes.

14 Q. My question, I think, sir, related

15 specifically to the impact of flocculent materials

16 from water depth on those organisms.

17 A. Normally when you sample benthic fauna,

18 you'll also make observations regarding substrate

19 condition, so any sampling of the benthos normally

20 results in collection of data regarding the condition

21 of the substrate. With regard to specifically

22 studying the relationship between benthos and the

23 composition of the sediments, I don't know.

24 Q. We talked about the sediment problem caused

25 by the inundations from project operations in Water

255

1 Conservation Area 2. We talked about the loss of the

2 trees and the tree islands. What other consequences

3 were there from the sustained inundation?

4 A. There was a loss of sawgrass associated

5 with the inundation first noted by Dineen in the late

6 '60's and it continued in the early '70's. The

7 sawgrass on the periphery of the wet water lily

8 sloughs did not do well there. It tended to die back

9 on the periphery of the sloughs. And there was clear

10 evidence with the dead sawgrass Combs during that

11 period. And I remember Walt Dineen clearly

12 attributing that to the extended duration of the

13 area.

14 Q. You, yourself, during this period were out

15 there in airboats observing this, weren't you?

16 A. On occasion, yes. Yes.

17 Q. Has that ever been quantified; the aerial

18 extent of that sawgrass that was lost?

19 A. No, I don't believe it has.

20 Q. Have you had any estimate?

21 A. I have no data.

22 Q. Any estimate?

23 A. No. That would be very difficult to

24 estimate.

25 Q. Okay. Loss of sawgrass on the periphery of

256

1 the water lily sloughs. Any other adverse impacts of

2 that inundation?

3 A. Wading bird feeding. The extent in the

4 hydroperiod, the constant inundation provided a

5 habitat that was not particularly conducive to wading

6 bird feeding.

7 Q. Meaning nesting and feeding patterns?

8 A. The feeding patterns. Most wading bird

9 feeding proceeds on a residing water level that tends

10 to concentrate the organism. If you don't have

11 receding water levels and you have relatively deep

12 water, you generally do not have wading birds

13 feeding, and that was the condition that existed

14 during much of the '60's.

15 Q. And the loss of the wading birds is

16 comparable to the phenomenon, I assume, that is

17 evidenced in Everglades National Park because of the

18 hydroperiod situation down there?

19 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

20 MS. BIRCH: What was that question? Could

21 you read that back?

22 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

23 was read by the reporter.)

24 THE WITNESS: The ornithologists and

25 hibernocologists that I have talked with and

257

1 interacted with over the years feel that the

2 wading bird changes in South Florida and the

3 park are, in all likelihood, a result of habitat

4 loss rather than specific changes in a given

5 area. For example, the construction of the east

6 coast containment levee from S-5A south down to

7 Homestead cut off a very significant portion of

8 the peripheral Everglades. The construction of

9 the containment levees for the Everglades

10 Agricultural Area enclosed 500 to 700,000 acres

11 of what was Everglades. The loss of that

12 habitat is generally considered to be the

13 primary cause for the wading bird reductions.

14 BY MR. EARL:

15 Q. But I am talking Everglades National Park.

16 Are you not aware of the reported problems caused by

17 high waters down there in wading bird colonies?

18 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form. You are

19 discussing facts that aren't in this record,

20 Counselor.

21 May we hear that question back again,

22 please?

23 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

24 was read by the reporter.)

25 THE WITNESS: There have been problems,

258

1 significant problems, within Everglades National

2 Park with regard to wading bird nesting and

3 breeding. I don't feel that I have the

4 expertise to talk about the causes of those

5 problems. My general recollection is that

6 there's probably a variety of causes for those

7 problems, not necessarily an extended

8 hydroperiod.

9 BY MR. EARL:

10 Q. Okay. Wading bird. What else did the

11 project's inundation with WCA-2 result in?

12 A. I think we have touched on the major

13 effects that came to mind. There may be others that

14 I don't recollect at this point in time, but I

15 believe we have touched on the major ones.

16 Q. Okay, sir. We are talking about major

17 hydroperiod problems caused by the project. We have

18 dealt with WCA-2A, an inundation, we have dealt with

19 the 10 structures. Let's go to the 11 structures.

20 What happened there, if anything?

21 A. Could you be more specific, please? Your

22 question?

23 Q. Sure. You have been describing impacts the

24 project has had on the hydroperiod and then telling

25 me your understanding of the ecological consequences

259

1 of that. I'm asking you to move your attention now

2 down to the 11 structures, both the north and south

3 of them, and tell me what hydrological impacts and

4 the ecological consequences are.

5 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form; compound

6 question.

7 MR. EARL: If you would like, Counsel, I

8 would be happy to break it down. We'll be here

9 longer, but that's your choice.

10 Tell me, Mr. Rhoads, please tell me and

11 identify the hydrologic impacts of the Central

12 and Southern Florida Flood Control Project

13 design and construction in the area north and

14 south of the 11 structures.

15 MS. PONZOLI: Same objection.

16 THE WITNESS: In the southern apex of

17 Conservation Area 2A, there has been in general

18 a ponding in that apex because of the operations

19 of the S-11 structures and because of the

20 surface elevations of the 2A Conservation Area

21 2A. That change in inundation, that extended

22 inundation, that ponding for a number of years

23 during the '70's resulted in a different type of

24 vegetation than occurred several miles north of

25 there.

260

1 BY MR. EARL:

2 Q. Let me just ask you on that, sir --

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. -- what occurred several miles north of

5 there?

6 A. As you move north from that area, you moved

7 into sawgrass ridges and white water lily sloughs.

8 However, in that area of extended inundation, for

9 some reason, at least during much of 1970's, the

10 primary vegetation was eleocharis cellulosa. For

11 some reason, the vegetation was different in that

12 area.

13 Q. As a result of the inundation, sir?

14 A. Perhaps. The precise causal relationships

15 I don't think have ever been determined for that.

16 Q. Excuse me. How large an area was that?

17 A. At least several hundred acres.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. The area south of the S-11 structures has

20 been substantially impacted by the canal system that

21 was constructed in that area.

22 Q. Part of the Federal project?

23 A. Part of the Federal project, yes. During

24 times of discharge out of the S-11 structures, stages

25 in that area were probably higher than typical, the

261

1 rate of changes generally higher than one would have

2 expected it to have been historically; however, the

3 canal system in that area, the borrow canals

4 primarily, have the general effect of moving the

5 water away from that portion downstream of the S-11

6 structures and conveying that water downstream to

7 more southerly portions of Conservation Area 3A. So

8 in a manner somewhat analogous to the impacts of

9 borrow canal system on northern Conservation Area 1,

10 the canal system in that portion of Conservation Area

11 3 tends to move water out of that area in what would

12 have been a much higher rate than what occurred prior

13 to construction of the area of the canal system.

14 Q. Was there a drying out effect there?

15 A. More northerly, north of the S-111

16 structures, yes, that phenomena that I described

17 earlier regarding Conservation Area 3A occurs in that

18 area just to the west and south of the S-150

19 structures, S-7 pump station. Down in the area just

20 downstream from the S-11 structures, yes, to some

21 extent there is an overdrainage because of the canal

22 system. The canal system tends to move the water

23 down into the vicinity of that, of the intersection

24 of the Miami Canal with the Snake Creek Canal, down

25 in the vicinity of the S-9 pump station, in that area

262

1 of the west.

2 Q. Now, let me just go back a minute. North

3 of the S-11 structures, in terms of impacts of the

4 project, you told me first -- and this is what I

5 first understood -- there was an increased inundation

6 immediately north, and that caused a change to

7 eleocharin from sawgrass in the '70's, and you just

8 told me about another area around to the north of the

9 S-11 around S-150 where you have the opposite; dry

10 out. Correct?

11 A. Yeah. What I indicated was in the area to

12 the south and west of the S-150 structures, the

13 problem that I had previously discussed about the

14 overdrainage of the northern portion of Conservation

15 Area 3A occurred within that area.

16 Q. Okay. Now, south, the borrow canals move

17 the water down, and you had a drying out effect,

18 perhaps not as great, and that moved that water down

19 where it otherwise wouldn't have moved down into the

20 area of the S-9 structures; correct?

21 A. That is correct. The L-38 west borrow

22 canal, L-68, L-68A borrow canal, leading down to the

23 L-67 borrow canal, has tended to drain that northern

24 portion of Conservation Area 3A and tended to move

25 the water down into that complex to the west of the

263

1 S-9 structures. Structure.

2 Q. And what were the, to your understanding,

3 the ecological consequences of that overdrainage

4 south of the S-11 structures?

5 A. No, the overdrainage occurred north of

6 Alligator Alley in that northern portion of

7 Conservation Area 3A.

8 Q. Tell me about that one.

9 A. That is the area that we discussed earlier

10 that was influenced by interception of overland flow

11 where L-5 is now. No overland flow coming in there

12 because of the levee 5; okay? And then overdrainage

13 because of the L-38 west and the L-68 borrow canals

14 in that area moving water out of that portion of

15 Conservation Area 3A north of Alligator Alley. The

16 farther south in that area, the less the impact of

17 that is noticeable, has been noticeable over the

18 years. But in the northern portions of that area,

19 particularly just to the southwest of S-150, the

20 vegetative response to that phenomenon has generally

21 been clear over the years.

22 Q. To the southwest, S-150?

23 A. Of S-150.

24 Q. Southwest. Okay. How large an area was

25 that? Can you identify that?

264

1 A. No, I did not estimate that.

2 Q. Your best estimate.

3 A. Somewhere between 50 and 100 square miles.

4 Q. 100 square miles?

5 A. Yeah. Receive some effect of that altered

6 hydroperiod.

7 Q. Okay. Describe the effects that you are

8 talking about from that altered hydrology.

9 A. We previously discussed the northern

10 portion of Conservation Area 3A and the impacts

11 there.

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. Do you want me to go over that again?

14 Q. With reference to this particular area,

15 yes.

16 A. Well, the effects I am talking about here --

17 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form. Is this

18 question only as to hydrology, Mr. Earl, or is

19 it hydrology in any other combination?

20 MR. EARL: We are asking the effects of the

21 draining, overdrainage, in the area, drying out

22 of the area, that the witness has described.

23 MS. PONZOLI: So it is only as to

24 hydrology, if I understand the question

25 accurately.

265

1 MS. BIRCH: Do you understand the question,

2 Mr. Rhoads?

3 THE WITNESS: Yes, I believe I do. The

4 general effects of the altered hydrology,

5 particularly the overdrainage in this area, has

6 been -- the most obvious has been the shift in

7 vegetation that I described earlier for this

8 area in general, which was from to a brushy,

9 more mesagrazeric type of vegetation.

10 BY MR. EARL:

11 Q. From what?

12 A. From the native sawgrass in the area with

13 occasional wet prairie community to a more

14 terrestrial like community with myrtles, baccahrus,

15 pigweed, willow, that sort of vegetation.

16 Q. Has this impact been studied, documented?

17 A. I believe it's been documented in Walt

18 Dineen's field notes. He was the one who first made

19 these observations. Let me see. Let me see. It may

20 have been documented at least in general terms in

21 Zaffke's technical publication of the vegetation of

22 Conservation Area 3A. That was a District technical

23 publication by Michael Zaffke.

24 Q. Dated what period of time?

25 A. Circa '79, late '70's, early '80's.

266

1 Q. Has this condition been alleviated in any

2 modifications in the interim or does it still

3 continue?

4 A. To a degree, the construction of the divide

5 structures S-339 is 340 has lengthened the

6 hydroperiod at least to a degree in this area. Those

7 structures in the Miami Canal offset the overdrainage

8 effects of the Miami Canal on that area, and that

9 extends to some distance to the east there.

10 Q. Well, how much of the 50 or 100 acres,

11 square miles, would you say were remedied by that?

12 A. I really couldn't estimate that with any

13 accuracy, Counsel.

14 Q. Still a problem, isn't it, down there?

15 A. Yes, but it is not as big a problem as it

16 was, because in addition to the S-339 and 340, the

17 conversion of the old Alligator Alley to I-75

18 resulted in a correction of the number of the flow

19 problems in that portion of the area. The borrow

20 canals for the old Alligator Alley tended to

21 contribute to that overdrainage in the area. With

22 the redesign of Alligator Alley and the construction

23 of I-75, measures were incorporated which we believe

24 have ameliorated some of that problem.

25 Q. Well, how would you characterize it, in

267

1 consideration of Everglades Restoration, how would

2 you characterize the significance of that problem

3 today, given these changes?

4 A. The northern portion of Conservation Area

5 2A still has, in my opinion, the predominant, the

6 largest single hydroperiod problem mainly because of

7 the --

8 Q. 2A, did you say?

9 A. I'm sorry. 3A. Conservation Area 3A.

10 Mainly because of the lack of inflow from the north.

11 The north portion of Conservation Area 3A simply does

12 not get surface water inflow, sheet flow, from the

13 north.

14 Q. And what in the SWIM plan is designed to

15 remedy that?

16 A. The SWIM plan has provisions for dealing

17 with the hydroperiod problem. It lays it out,

18 identifies it as a problem, indicates that it will be

19 dealt with in subsequent drafts of the SWIM plan.

20 Q. I am talking about this specific 3A that

21 you have just described. Is there anything, any

22 remediation or any remedial measures identified?

23 A. Specific remedial measures, no, I don't

24 believe so.

25 Q. Are any specific remedial measures analyzed

268

1 or evaluated in the SWIM plan for this situation?

2 A. No, I don't believe so. The SWIM plan

3 states that that will be carried out at some point in

4 the future.

5 Q. All right. Okay. We were working our way

6 down. We were south of the 11 structures. If we can

7 go back there, we talked about the overdrainage,

8 which is being routed down to S-9; correct?

9 A. Into that area, portion, of Conservation

10 Area 3A west of the S-9 pump station. From that

11 point, water is generally conveyed, primary

12 conveyance is down L-67A, down that borrow canal on

13 the west side of the L-67A levee.

14 Q. What does the Broward County Master Plan

15 say about that pump station? Do you know? You were

16 going to look into that at one time, weren't you?

17 A. Not to my recollection, Counselor.

18 Q. Is there a drainage District down there?

19 A. There are a number of drainage districts in

20 Broward County, yes.

21 Q. Does the county have a plan, a drainage

22 plan, as part of their comp plan or otherwise for

23 utilizing the S-9?

24 A. Could you repeat that question for me.

25 Q. Sure. Would you read back the question.

269

1 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

2 was read by the reporter.)

3 MS. BIRCH: If you know, Mr. Rhoads.

4 THE WITNESS: It's been many years since I

5 have reviewed the Broward County Land Use Plan,

6 Counselor, and I do not remember any of the

7 specifics of that portion of the plan.

8 BY MR. EARL:

9 Q. Well, what are you aware of? What is the

10 drainage basin for S-9 and what increasing

11 utilization of that are you aware of, if any?

12 A. The drainage basin for the S-9 pump station

13 extends eastward to approximately the S-13A divide

14 structure, which separates the C-11 basin into an

15 eastern and western basin.

16 Q. And does it extend down south of the S-13A

17 divide?

18 A. Yes. It is roughly a trapezoidal watershed

19 with the S-13A representing basically the eastern

20 extent of the western C-11 basin.

21 Q. Am I correct in understanding that is an

22 area of increasing development in Broward County?

23 A. It has been for the past 20 years, yes.

24 Q. Do you know what the increased demands are

25 going to be on that, utilizing it for backpumping?

270

1 A. Generally, the development permitted

2 through a regulatory program provides for limiting

3 the post runoff, post development runoff, to

4 predevelopment rates, so the --

5 Q. Does S-9 backpump at all now, do you know?

6 A. Oh, yes it does. Yes.

7 Q. Does it drain residential areas?

8 A. Yes. Generally low density residential

9 areas.

10 Q. Does that go into the marsh there?

11 A. I beg your pardon?

12 Q. Does that go into the marsh? Does it go

13 into the Everglades there?

14 A. It goes into the Everglades, yes. There is

15 a get away canal from S-9, and the water from the

16 pump station is pumped into the canal, and it does

17 interact with the marsh both there and in other

18 portions of Conservation Area 3A.

19 Q. And are you concerned about increasing

20 trends of nutrients in nutrient concentrations in

21 that?

22 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

23 MR. EARL: Grounds?

24 MS. PONZOLI: I don't think you're clear.

25 Are you talking about S-9 increasing trends and

271

1 S-9 concentrations of phosphorus? Is that your

2 question?

3 MR. EARL: I'm not going to answer. Is

4 that your objection?

5 MS. PONZOLI: My objection is your question

6 is vague and unclear.

7 MR. EARL: Okay, fine.

8 BY MR. EARL:

9 Q. Do you understand the question?

10 A. No, I don't, Counsel.

11 Q. Okay. Would you read it back.

12 I'll rephrase it.

13 Do you anticipate, as part of your

14 Everglades restoration duties, that there will be

15 increasing trends of phosphorus concentrations in the

16 S-9 discharge?

17 A. It is a potential source of concern. It

18 tends to be a lesser source of concern because the

19 Biscayne aquifer in that area is -- the carbonaceous

20 material is quite close to the surface, so the

21 phosphorus concentrations that we have historically

22 experienced at S-9 have been quite low. Because of

23 the nature of the substrate, the nature of that

24 watershed, it tends not to be a high source of

25 concern, at least in terms of nutrients coming into

272

1 the area. How that watershed might develop in the

2 future is a source of concern that needs to be dealt

3 with in subsequent updates of the SWIM plan, yes.

4 Q. What is your understanding of phosphorus

5 loading in the soils in that area?

6 A. In which area?

7 Q. The S-9 area.

8 A. In general, that watershed produces

9 relatively low concentrations of phosphorus primarily

10 because of the edaphic conditions; the soils in that

11 area. It has not, to the best of my recollection,

12 been characterized as a high nutrient source coming

13 into the Everglades.

14 Q. Well, I'm asking you more, sir, if you're

15 aware of any phosphorus soil testing that has been

16 done in that area in terms of --

17 A. In the C-11 basin?

18 Q. In the area of S-9, sir.

19 A. I'm sorry, I have lost the track here. I

20 don't understand the question.

21 Q. In the area of the S-9 discharges, okay,

22 are you aware of any phosphorus soil testing or

23 analysis that has been done?

24 A. Oh. I believe some has been done. I'm not

25 personally familiar with it. I have not reviewed

273

1 that data.

2 Q. Who's done it?

3 A. I'm not sure.

4 Q. Someone at the District?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Steve Davis?

7 A. I'm not sure.

8 Q. Who would you ask to find out?

9 A. Marguerite Koch.

10 Q. Okay.

11 A. Perhaps.

12 Q. Now, are there releases in that area from

13 District canals also into the marsh?

14 A. I don't understand.

15 Q. Does water get out of the District

16 conveyancing canals in the vicinity of S-9 out into

17 the marsh?

18 A. Oh, yes. Yes, it does.

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. Certainly in some areas where it is not

21 contained in the canal by an adjacent borrow mound.

22 Q. Okay. Moving, if you would like, to south

23 from S-9, that would be the easiest way, Mr. Rhoads,

24 let's continue and let's talk about adverse

25 hydroperiod impacts of the central and southern

274

1 project on the Everglades.

2 A. In general terms, that portion of

3 Conservation Area 3A.

4 MS. BIRCH: Excuse me. What is the

5 question?

6 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

7 was read by the reporter.)

8 THE WITNESS: Counsel, could you rephrase

9 the question for me, please.

10 MS. BIRCH: I am just objecting to the form

11 of the question as a narrative. I'm not sure

12 there is a question that Mr. Rhoads can answer.

13 MR. EARL: Well, if you would like, if

14 Mr. Rhoads would like, Counsel, I can go to

15 every structure and every levee and every dyke

16 and ask him, but I think that is an abuse of his

17 time, and I don't think the rest of us want to

18 do that, so I am trying to ask him to generally

19 cover it. He was about to answer. I think it

20 is a much more efficient way to do it.

21 Otherwise, we'll be here --

22 MS. BIRCH: I would agree with that,

23 Mr. Earl, if Mr. Rhoads can say that he

24 understands what he's being asked.

25 THE WITNESS: My understanding of the

275

1 question was, what are the adverse impacts of

2 hydroperiod in the southern portion of

3 Conservation Area 3A.

4 BY MR. EARL:

5 Q. We can start there, yes. That will be

6 fine.

7 A. That is the question I am responding to.

8 In general, the central portion has no adverse

9 impacts. That portion of the Everglades is nearly

10 pristine. The area in the general vicinity of the

11 Dade Broward levee, the southern portion of

12 Conservation Area 3, tends to experience a ponding

13 problem analogous to the southern portion of

14 Conservation Area 1. In other words, the hydroperiod

15 tends to be somewhat extended in this southern

16 portion of the area.

17 Q. Southern -- locate me, please, with some

18 structures. You say the southern portion of 3A?

19 A. Generally the area south of the midway

20 point between Tamiami Trail and the Dade/Broward

21 levee. Find the midway point between those two

22 structures, between Tamiami Trail and Dade/Broward

23 boundary. Boundary line for Dade and Broward county.

24 Q. Okay.

25 A. Between there and Tamiami Trail and the

276

1 southern portion of that area.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. In the southern portion of that area, west

4 of L-67A, east of L-28, that area tends to experience

5 a lengthened hydroperiod because of a ponding problem

6 analogous to what I described earlier in the

7 Conservation Area 1.

8 Q. You are talking about the area north of the

9 S-12 structure specifically?

10 A. North of the S-12 structures. For an area

11 of perhaps five to ten miles north of that. That

12 area tends to have a somewhat lengthened hydroperiod,

13 which has resulted in white water lily sloughs being

14 a more -- a larger component of the landscape than

15 the sawgrass that one would find 15 to 20 miles north

16 of that.

17 Q. I presume the sheet flow has been

18 eliminated in this area by the construction in the

19 levee in the S-12 structures; correct?

20 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

21 THE WITNESS: Sheet flow in the area we

22 have been discussing is perhaps the only area

23 that does have particularly good sheet flow

24 coming out of the central portion of 3A. In

25 other words, the area that we have been

277

1 describing receives sheet flow from the adjacent

2 marsh to the north; the central portion of

3 Conservation Area 3A. So the water tends to

4 flow across the land in that area.

5 BY MR. EARL:

6 Q. I got ahead of myself. I'm sorry. I was

7 south of the 12 structures. I apologize. You have

8 good sheet flow, and then it is impounded five to ten

9 miles of -- pools five to ten miles north?

10 A. Very roughly, yes.

11 Q. And that is a result of the design and

12 construction of those structures; correct?

13 A. Design and construction and operation of

14 the structures, yes.

15 Q. Okay. Pre-project, was that sawgrass

16 primarily in that area?

17 A. That area probably doesn't differ too much.

18 I think Walt Dineen's recollection in that area was

19 that there were more white water lily sloughs in that

20 area, in his opinion, based upon the extended

21 hydroperiod in that area, but it was sawgrass and

22 adjacent white water lily sloughs.

23 Q. There was pre-project -- it would be your

24 understanding there was more sawgrass than there is

25 now?

278

1 A. Probably in that area, yes.

2 Q. But even pre-project, there was probably

3 more white lilies than there were sawgrass in terms

4 of dominance?

5 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form. I don't

6 think that is what he said.

7 BY MR. EARL:

8 Q. I got the impression -- I am trying to --

9 we can, and will, go into minute detailing, but I am

10 just trying to cut it short. I had the impression

11 from your answer, Mr. Rhoads, that from Mr. Dineen's

12 recollections, this was not a predominantly sawgrass

13 area. There was sawgrass there more than there is

14 now, but there was also lily there; correct?

15 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

16 BY MR. EARL:

17 Q. Correct? Or explain -- tell me in your own

18 words what was there.

19 A. In part, yes. The extended inundation of

20 this area, while not severe, it does have -- did and

21 does have longer hydroperiod in that area. That

22 longer hydroperiod has tended to make the white water

23 lily sloughs a larger component of the vegetative mix

24 in that area than probably existed prior to the

25 construction of the Tamiami Trail in that area.

279

1 Prior to alteration of flow patterns in that area.

2 However, the area 15 to 20 miles north up in the

3 vicinity of the Dade/Broward County line is probably

4 as close to pristine Everglades as exists anywhere

5 within the system.

6 Q. Okay. Did the construction of the --

7 strike that. Prior to construction of the 12

8 structures that the Tamiami Trail has there; correct?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And what is your understanding of the water

11 conveyancing mechanisms, culverts that existed

12 pre-project, in terms of the hydrology? Was it

13 better water flow or not?

14 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

15 BY MR. EARL:

16 Q. Tell me your understanding of the

17 pre-project water flows across the Tamiami Trail.

18 A. Tamiami Trail had a series of culverts and

19 small bridges all the way along its extent across the

20 Everglades. There was not -- the L-67A and L-67C

21 borrow canals were constructed in the '60's, so the

22 Tamiami canal existed for an extensive period of time

23 with essentially no canals coming to it from the

24 north. It was essentially a large marsh, at least in

25 the central portion of the Everglades north of the

280

1 Tamiami Trail, and there were culverts underneath the

2 highway in which water flowed basically without

3 structural control. Without gated control anyway.

4 Q. Have you reviewed the modified water

5 deliveries EIS for this area?

6 A. Yes, briefly.

7 Q. Did you participate in the comments on it?

8 A. I don't believe I did, no.

9 Q. So what is your understanding of the

10 construction of the project due to the hydrology

11 along the Tamiami Trail? If we can just go from east

12 to west, whatever is most convenient.

13 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

14 THE WITNESS: Going west to east from the

15 L-30 borrow canal, the construction of the L-29

16 levee north of the Tamiami Trail, west of,

17 basically, Crome Avenue, of the L-30, L-31 north

18 borrow canal, L-29 levee intercepted overland

19 flow and kept that flow from flowing south, in

20 large measure anyway, into the northeast Shark

21 River Slough. That applies for generally from

22 S-334 west to S-333. For that portion of the

23 Everglades cross-section west of S-333 out to

24 the L-28 levee, the system tended to impound

25 water to the north, but it also provided

281

1 structural control for the water flowing south

2 under the Tamiami Trail. The area to the west

3 of that in the Big Cypress area was largely

4 unaffected by construction of the C&SF project.

5 BY MR. EARL:

6 Q. Was it your understanding -- was the

7 project, in terms of disbursing flow, did it reduce

8 the number of disbursion points into the park?

9 A. It, in essence, concentrated the Everglades

10 flow to the west of where today sits structure 333.

11 In other words, the full flow section of the

12 Everglades no longer was functional, and the flow was

13 discharged in the western portion of the section.

14 Q. Through, as I understand it, four discrete

15 structures; correct?

16 A. That is correct.

17 (Thereupon, a recess was taken.)

18 MR. EARL: Can we resume?

19 MS. BIRCH: Yes, we are ready.

20 MR. EARL: Would you read back the last

21 question and answer, please.

22 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

23 was read by the reporter.)

24 BY MR. EARL:

25 Q. What is your understanding of the adverse

282

1 effects of the levee that was constructed from S-334

2 to S-333?

3 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

4 THE WITNESS: The construction of the L-29

5 levee, in essence, cut off overland flow going

6 into that portion of the Everglades south of the

7 L-29 levee, normally called the Northeast Shark

8 River Slough.

9 BY MR. EARL:

10 Q. Okay. How large an area was impacted, as

11 you understand it?

12 A. Oh, very roughly, on the order of 150

13 square miles.

14 Q. And what was the pre-project vegetation in

15 that area, as you understand it?

16 A. That area was one of the deeper portions of

17 the Everglades. There were tree islands, sawgrass

18 sloughs. That is a general characterization of the

19 vegetation pattern in the area.

20 Q. And what were the impacts of the project on

21 the vegetation in the area post project?

22 A. It tended to shift the vegetation pattern

23 to one more typical of the shorter hydroperiod area.

24 The slough areas were not as dominant. Where they

25 occurred, they covered a smaller area. There was, in

283

1 that area, probably a greater preponderance of wet

2 prairie community typical of even shorter

3 hydroperiod. It depends upon the specific area. The

4 L-29 canal and the L-67 extension canal both impacted

5 that area, and so there is considerable local

6 variation of the effect within that Northeast Shark

7 River Slough area.

8 Q. There was loss of sawgrass in the area?

9 A. Perhaps to some degree.

10 Q. Perhaps to some degree. Is it your

11 understanding there was or was not a loss of

12 sawgrass?

13 A. I'm not sure, Counselor.

14 Q. Was there a drying out of that area?

15 A. Yes, shortening of the hydroperiod, dryer

16 conditions.

17 Q. And would that tell you that there would be

18 a shift to woody vegetation, brushy vegetation?

19 A. Generally to some extent, yes.

20 Q. What is in that area now, as you look at

21 it?

22 A. Tree islands that were substantially

23 adversely affected by Hurricane Andrew, adjacent

24 sawgrass areas, some slough areas, some wet prairie

25 communities within that area.

284

1 Q. You don't see any myrtle, any willow?

2 A. Yes. Particularly in the area adjacent to

3 L-29, the shrubby vegetation characterized by myrtle,

4 baccahrus, willow, is quite common.

5 Q. How large an area would that be in terms of

6 the transformation to shrubby vegetation?

7 A. It varies. Generally, to my recollection,

8 a several hundred yard area adjacent to the Tamiami

9 Trail on the south side experiences very clearly

10 visually evident those conditions.

11 Q. Now, you mentioned the L-67 extension

12 canal. Are you familiar with that?

13 A. Generally, yes.

14 Q. And whose idea was it to construct that?

15 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

16 THE WITNESS: The L-67 extension canal was

17 constructed in the 1960's by a contractor to the

18 Corps of Engineers primarily, as I understand

19 it, in response to the Everglades National

20 Park's concern which developed in the early

21 '60's regarding insufficient quantity of water

22 reaching the park.

23 BY MR. EARL:

24 Q. It was federally designed, constructed?

25 A. That is correct.

285

1 Q. Is it your understanding the National Park

2 Service requested it?

3 MS. PONZOLI: Asked and answered,

4 Counselor.

5 THE WITNESS: My general understanding is

6 yes, they were supportive of the Corps designing

7 construction of that canal, yes.

8 BY MR. EARL:

9 Q. And what have been the adverse consequences

10 of the construction of the L-67, to your knowledge?

11 A. In very general terms, it altered the

12 hydroperiod both on the east side and the west side.

13 Since discharges were made in the western portion of

14 the cross-section to the west of the L-67 extension,

15 that area tended to experience higher water levels,

16 longer hydroperiod, while the area to the east of the

17 L-67 extension tended to experience a shorter

18 hydroperiod conditions. Water has been documented

19 historically going around the end of L-67 from the

20 west to the east.

21 Q. And what was the impact to the increased

22 inundation to the west, hydroperiod to the west, in

23 terms of vegetation ecological factors?

24 A. I have not been down in that area except on

25 very rare occasion down in that portion of the park.

286

1 I really don't have any recollection of vegetative

2 changes in those areas.

3 Q. Same would be true to the east? You have

4 no personal knowledge of that?

5 A. No. I have better knowledge in the area to

6 the east. As we described earlier, we discussed that

7 area.

8 Q. Shark River Slough?

9 A. The Shark River Slough area.

10 Q. Okay. Does that disturbance extend down

11 all the way to the length of L-67? We talked about

12 150 square mile area.

13 A. The 150 square mile area I referred to

14 earlier was basically the entire northeast Shark

15 River Slough east of the L-67 extension. That was

16 affected by the construction of L-29.

17 Q. Is it true, Mr. Rhoads, that most of the

18 hydroperiod problems the District has identified are

19 associated with the design operation of the Federal

20 project?

21 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

22 MS. BIRCH: Object to form.

23 MR. EARL: Grounds, Counselor?

24 MS. PONZOLI: I think his testimony has

25 been otherwise.

287

1 MS. BIRCH: And I want to hear the question

2 again.

3 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

4 was read by the reporter.)

5 MS. BIRCH: Grounds also, Mr. Earl, I

6 haven't heard Mr. Rhoads testify as to problems

7 identified by the District of hydroperiod.

8 MR. EARL: Okay.

9 BY MR. EARL:

10 Q. Is it true, Mr. Rhoads, that most of the

11 hydroperiod problems the District has identified are

12 associated with design operation of the Federal

13 project?

14 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

15 THE WITNESS: The problems that we spent

16 the past hour or so discussing, that I have

17 discussed, resulted from the Central and

18 Southern Florida project and the previous

19 changes, such as the Tamiami Trail, such as the

20 works of the Everglades Drainage District that

21 occurred in the area.

22 BY MR. EARL:

23 Q. Okay. Who was responsible for the work on

24 the Tamiami Trail? Is that the State of Florida?

25 A. I believe so.

288

1 Q. Okay. The Everglades Drainage District is

2 the state established by this agency as the successor

3 to; is that what you told me earlier?

4 A. Yeah, that is correct.

5 Q. Other than those two, what hydroperiod

6 problems impacting the Everglades are not associated

7 with the design operation of the Federal project?

8 MS. PONZOLI: May I hear the question

9 again, please.

10 THE WITNESS: Yes. Could you repeat the

11 question please.

12 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

13 was read by the reporter.)

14 MS. PONZOLI: Other than those two; is that

15 what you said?

16 THE WITNESS: Counselor, reference for the

17 word "two".

18 BY MR. EARL:

19 Q. Were the two you just gave me Tamiami

20 Trail, by DO State, and the Everglades Drainage

21 District?

22 A. Other than the EDD and the Tamiami Trail?

23 Q. Yes, sir.

24 A. I think the other project that has impacted

25 hydroperiod in the Everglades has been the

289

1 construction of Alligator Alley and, subsequently,

2 Interstate 75.

3 Q. And it is my understanding the State of

4 Florida undertook that construction?

5 A. I'm not sure. Yes. It was State of

6 Florida with federal funding; but I'm not familiar

7 with the details on that.

8 Q. Anything else?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Okay, sir. Now, with regard to the

11 project; what has been the impact, as you understand

12 it, on the Everglades, of the construction of the --

13 coastal -- what do you call it -- The Coastal Ridge

14 Levee protecting the developed urban areas as you go

15 south?

16 A. You are referring, I believe, to what is

17 normally called the Coastal Containment Levee.

18 Q. Okay, sir. And that stretches from where

19 to where?

20 A. Stretches from up at Lake Okeechobee, in

21 the vicinity of structure S-76, down to south of

22 Homestead levee L-31 west, south of S-175.

23 Q. It comes down what, the L-8?

24 A. The L-8, L-40, L-36, around Conservation

25 Area 2B, south L-37, L-33, L-30, L-31 north, L-31

290

1 west.

2 Q. All right, sir. And that was part of the

3 design and construction of the Federal project also;

4 correct?

5 A. That is correct, yes.

6 Q. What has been the hydrologic impact of the

7 construction of that levee on the Everglades?

8 A. In very general terms, what it did was to

9 separate the urban the coastal area from the interior

10 Everglades area. It basically provided for a

11 hydrologic separation of the surface water system

12 between the Everglades system, on the interior, and

13 the coastal area, which, for most purposes, drains

14 east to tide water.

15 Q. So prior to the construction of that levee,

16 the drainage was generally to the east?

17 A. It varied depending upon conditions.

18 Generally, overall flow in the system was from Lake

19 Okeechobee basically south, southeast, then south,

20 through the central portion of the area, and then to

21 the southwest as it went down across Tamiami Trail

22 and out in the Florida Bay. The East Coast coastal

23 ridge served as the boundary for that system. There

24 was some passage through at various point, through

25 the coastal ridge, but, before man's influence, that

291

1 was the general flow pattern.

2 Q. Hydrologically, what did that levee do to

3 the water in the Everglades?

4 MS. PONZOLI: I object to form.

5 THE WITNESS: Sorry, Counselor, I don't

6 understand the question.

7 BY MR. EARL:

8 Q. Okay. What was the purpose of the levee?

9 Why did they build it all the way from Lake

10 Okeechobee down to Homestead?

11 A. The purpose was to hydrologically separate

12 the Everglades from the coastal area to prevent water

13 from the Everglades from flowing eastward, as surface

14 water, into the urban and agricultural areas that

15 were existing to the east of the containment levee.

16 Q. And what did the project then do with those

17 waters that were contained?

18 A. As I mentioned a moment ago, that area east

19 of the containment levee drained to tide water. The

20 area to the west of the containment levee is the

21 Water Conservation Area and water flowed generally

22 south.

23 Q. I'm not making myself clear. I apologize.

24 If that was the pre-project condition, why did they

25 build a levee? I am trying to understand what the

292

1 hydrologic results of that levee were, in terms of

2 water in the area.

3 A. The area between the East Coast containment

4 levee and, essentially, the coastal ridge, prior to

5 man's intervention, was a wetland. It was, in all

6 likelihood, a shallow hydroperiod wetland. The

7 construction of the containment levee provided the

8 basic ability to drain that area to provide flood

9 protection and drainage to the area to the east of

10 the levee.

11 Q. How large an area, approximately, was that

12 area between the Coastal Containment Levee and the

13 coastal ridge -- natural coastal ridge?

14 A. Probably an area on the order of

15 three-quarters of a million to a million acres.

16 Q. 750,000 to a million acres?

17 A. Roughly. Very roughly.

18 Q. Was that part of the native Everglades?

19 A. Significant portions of that, yes, were.

20 And in all likelihood part of the periphery of the

21 original Everglades.

22 Q. And the result of that was to allow urban

23 development in that area; is that correct?

24 A. Agricultural and urban development, yes,

25 was one of the results.

293

1 Q. One of the purposes, wasn't it, of the

2 project?

3 A. That was the project purpose, yes.

4 Q. I'm sorry. Did you tell me that was part

5 of the natural Everglades? That 750 to a million?

6 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form. That's been

7 asked and answered.

8 MR. EARL: I am just not clear, Counsel. I

9 can have the court reporter read it back. I am

10 trying to save some time.

11 THE WITNESS: Portions of that area,

12 considerable portions of that area, were, in all

13 likelihood, the eastern fringe of the

14 Everglades. They were wetlands, and for

15 ecosystem purposes could realistically be

16 considered part of the Everglades.

17 BY MR. EARL:

18 Q. What human activities is the District

19 currently allowing in Water Conservation Area 3A?

20 A. Sports use of Conservation Area 3A is

21 managed for the District by the Florida Game and

22 Fresh Water Fish Commission. Because of high water

23 levels at this point in time, recreational use of the

24 area is highly restricted.

25 Q. There are some houses out there, fish

294

1 camps, are there not?

2 A. In portions of Water Conservation Areas,

3 yes.

4 Q. Who permits those; the District?

5 A. To the best of my knowledge, those are

6 unpermitted structures.

7 Q. Is that District land?

8 A. There are difficult questions of ownership

9 for those facilities.

10 Q. What about agricultural activities in

11 Conservation Area 3A? How much of that does the

12 District allow?

13 A. There is no agricultural activity within

14 Water Conservation Area 3A.

15 Q. Who grazes the cattle in Water Conservation

16 Area 3A?

17 A. No one, to my knowledge.

18 Q. Are you saying the Seminoles and the

19 Miccosukees do not have cattle grazing activities in

20 Water Conservation Area 3A?

21 A. Not to my knowledge. Not to the east of

22 L-28 levee, no.

23 Q. Is that the boundary of Water Conservation

24 Area 3, L-28 levee?

25 A. Yes. For practical working purposes, yes.

295

1 Q. You would be aware of any development

2 activities or agricultural activities in Water

3 Conservation Area 3A?

4 A. I suspect so, yes.

5 Q. And you are not aware of any?

6 A. I'm not aware of any.

7 Q. Okay. Any other activities development

8 allowed in the Water Conservation Areas?

9 A. There is at least one fish camp that is

10 permitted within Water Conservation Areas by the

11 District.

12 Q. Whose fish camp is that?

13 A. It's been so long. Holiday Park Fish Camp,

14 out from S-9 pump station.

15 Q. The construction of the coastal levee as

16 part of the Federal project, did that remove -- that

17 did remove, did it not, a substantial area that prior

18 to that was available for water flow and storage?

19 MS. PONZOLI: May I hear that question

20 again, please.

21 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

22 was read by the reporter.)

23 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

24 MR. EARL: Grounds?

25 MS. PONZOLI: I think it is vague. I don't

296

1 think it is clear at all what you are trying to

2 ask. I don't think you did it on purpose, I

3 just think it came out that way.

4 THE WITNESS: The construction of the East

5 Coast containment levee did remove, generally,

6 areas to the east of it from storage of water.

7 In other words, it provided for the drainage of

8 those areas.

9 BY MR. EARL:

10 Q. And did it raise the hydroperiod, increase

11 the hydroperiod, in areas to the west of the levee?

12 A. Yes, in general terms, it did.

13 Q. And did you anticipate, in your capacity as

14 Everglades Restoration Director, that that would have

15 had adverse consequences on the ecology of the

16 Everglades?

17 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

18 THE WITNESS: Generally not, because -- the

19 reason for that is because when the east coast

20 levee system was constructed, it came in in the

21 aftermath of, basically, a severe overdrainage

22 of the Everglades by the Everglades Drainage

23 District canals. Those canals, while basically

24 ineffective during flood periods in controlling

25 flooding, they were too effective during dry

297

1 periods in draining the area. So the additional

2 impoundment resulting from the lower East Coast

3 Containment Levee tended to alleviate, or

4 ameliorate, some of those drainage problems. So

5 in my mind, it would generally be -- the results

6 of that levee construction were generally

7 positive compared to what was there previously.

8 BY MR. EARL:

9 Q. You mentioned earlier one of the adverse

10 impacts of the Federal project was the increased

11 incidence of fire; correct?

12 A. Yes, in portions of the Water Conservation

13 Areas, that is correct.

14 Q. What are the consequences ecologically of

15 fire?

16 A. It depends on the timing, severity and the

17 pre-existing conditions to the fire. In many cases,

18 fire is beneficial, and in other cases, fire has a

19 distinctly adverse effect upon the Everglades.

20 Q. Okay. Modified, the hydroperiod caused by

21 the project has resulted in more fire, has it not?

22 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

23 THE WITNESS: I'm not comfortable with that

24 statement, Counselor.

298

1 BY MR. EARL:

2 Q. Okay. How would you state it?

3 A. I'm not sure if the data exists, or the

4 recollections exist by naturalists, to demonstrate

5 one way or the other how that was. It also depends

6 on the area, to large measure, I believe. As

7 mentioned earlier, the period of the '40s, with the

8 Everglades Drainage District facilities in place, was

9 one of substantial overdrainage and fire, substantial

10 fire, during that period.

11 Q. Have you found, in the last 20 years, that

12 the area north of Alligator Alley, because of the

13 increased incidence of fires, has lost a significant

14 amount of peat?

15 A. Yes, that is correct.

16 Q. Has there been a burning oxidation of the

17 peat that's been laid down over the past 5,000 years

18 in this area?

19 A. Yes, that is generally correct.

20 Q. Because it didn't have enough water?

21 A. In general terms, that is correct.

22 Q. Is phosphorus released during fires in the

23 Everglades?

24 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form.

299

1 BY MR. EARL:

2 Q. Into the atmosphere or otherwise?

3 A. Generally, the oxidation of the peat

4 accompanying fire results in phosphorus being made

5 available. Just the process of oxidation converts

6 carbon oxygen into CO2, and it leaves the minerals

7 such as phosphorus. Some of it could be carried in

8 the smoke going from a fire. A significant portion

9 would be residual, as the ash.

10 Q. What, if any, hydroperiod problems are the

11 EAA farmers responsible for in terms of impacting the

12 Everglades?

13 MS. PONZOLI: Object to the form.

14 MR. EARL: Grounds?

15 MS. PONZOLI: I think it calls for

16 testimony that I'm not sure that this witness

17 can give, and I think it is such a broad based

18 question that it probably cannot be answered by

19 anyone.

20 MS. BIRCH: I would like to hear the

21 question.

22 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

23 was read by the reporter.)

24 THE WITNESS: As I mentioned earlier, one

25 of the factors in determining the time, the

300

1 rate, the amount of water discharged at the pump

2 stations from the EAA is what happens in the

3 area tributary to those pump stations. S-5A,

4 S-6, S-7 area tributary to those pump stations

5 is agriculture, and within the Everglades

6 Agricultural Area the water that is pumped out

7 of those pump stations is, in large measure,

8 water that was discharged from lands within the

9 Everglades Agricultural Area. Were those lands

10 not in agricultural production, the magnitude

11 and volume and runoff coming from those lands

12 would be much less than it is, and water would

13 not be pumped into pump stations. Following

14 that line of logic, the many lands in other of

15 those tributary areas, to the north of the pump

16 stations, are one of the reasons that

17 hydroperiod problems occur because of the levee

18 system in the pumps.

19 BY MR. EARL:

20 Q. Is that water used and pumped by the EAA

21 farmers pursuant to District permits?

22 A. In some cases, yes.

23 Q. Are there surface water management permits

24 for those systems?

25 A. Currently, not for most of them, but

301

1 shortly there will be for all of them.

2 Q. Is there use of water in that area, to your

3 knowledge, for any reason, not in conformance with

4 District water use regulations?

5 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form. It is what

6 the whole case has been about.

7 MS. BIRCH: Object to form.

8 THE WITNESS: Repeat the question, please.

9 MR. EARL: I'll rephrase it.

10 BY MR. EARL:

11 Q. Mr. Rhoads, you have talked about the fact

12 that the lands converted to agricultural use result

13 in runover and in different timing of water, less

14 than would be in native Everglades; correct?

15 A. That is correct.

16 Q. Is the water use by the farmers, in terms

17 of water quantity under 373, so far as you know, in

18 accordance with District regulations and permits?

19 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form. Calls for a

20 legal conclusion on the part of a nonlegal

21 person.

22 MS. BIRCH: Same objection, Mr. Earl.

23 BY MR. EARL:

24 Q. Okay.

25 A. I haven't been in the regulatory or legal

302

1 portion of that aspect of the District operations,

2 Counselor, so I don't feel comfortable responding.

3 Q. Okay. You don't know?

4 A. Don't know.

5 Q. Okay. You do understand, do you not, that

6 one purpose of the project was to allow agricultural

7 development in the EAA?

8 A. That was one of the purposes of the

9 project, yes.

10 Q. And one of the purposes of the project, was

11 it not, to supply water for that agricultural use?

12 A. Yes, that was one of the design

13 considerations of the project.

14 Q. And one of the purposes of the project, was

15 it not, was to provide flood control for that

16 agricultural use?

17 A. That is correct.

18 Q. Let's talk for a minute about the impacts

19 of operations of the Federal project. We have talked

20 to date about design and construction. Starting out

21 with hydroperiod; what hydroperiod impacts are you

22 aware of resulting from District operational

23 decisions on the project?

24 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form. I think we

25 have been talking about operations while we were

303

1 talking about all other hydroperiod terms. I

2 don't think it was isolated out -- that it was

3 only construction of the project. None of the

4 questions were ever structured in that way nor

5 answered in that way.

6 MS. BIRCH: I also object to the form. As

7 I recall, Mr. Earl, in Mr. Rhoads' response to

8 your questions regarding hydroperiod impacts of

9 the operation on the project, his answers were

10 responsive to what I believe include any

11 impacts. The questions were broad and overly

12 conclusive.

13 MR. EARL: Okay, Counsel.

14 BY MR. EARL:

15 Q. Are you aware of any operational options

16 the District has to alter hydroperiod in various

17 areas and adverse impacts those options have had over

18 the years?

19 MS. PONZOLI: Object to form. It is a

20 compound question.

21 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat that

22 question, please.

23 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

24 was read by the reporter.)

304

1 BY MR. EARL:

2 Q. Other than what we have talked about.

3 MS. PONZOLI: Object. You're making it

4 worse.

5 THE WITNESS: I don't understand your

6 question, Counselor.

7 MR. EARL: Okay. We'll go at it in more

8 detail.

9 MS. PONZOLI: Excuse me. What was -- would

10 you read back the last statement.

11 (Thereupon, a portion of the record

12 was read by the reporter.)

13 BY MR. EARL:

14 Q. What is your understanding of how the

15 District operates the project, Mr. Rhoads?

16 A. Within the Everglades area?

17 Q. Yeah.

18