STATE OF FLORIDA DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE OF ) FLORIDA, a Florida Agricultural ) Cooperative Marketing Association, ) CASE NOS. 92-3038 ROTH FARMS, INC., and ) 92-3039 WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC., ) 92-3040 ) and ) ) FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.; ) UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; ) and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC., ) ) ______________________ and ) FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE ) DEPOSITION ASSOCIATION, LEWIS POPE FARMS, ) W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., and ) OF HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., ) ) DR. KENNETH H. RECKHOW Petitioners, ) ______________________ ) vs. ) ) SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT ) DISTRICT, an Agency of the State ) of Florida, ) ) Respondent, ) ) and ) ) MICCOSUKEE TRIBE OF INDIANS OF ) FLORIDA, the UNITED STATES OF ) AMERICA, and FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ) ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, and the ) FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION, ) ) Intervenors. ) ___________________________________) AT DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA APRIL 8-9, 1993 REPORTED BY: PAMELA S. LILES CAROLYN Y. HALL & ASSOCIATES DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 2 APPEARANCES: FOR THE PETITIONERS: SUGARCANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE MR. RICHARD A. RUSSELL OF FLORIDA, ROTH FARMS, INC. PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK AND WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC. ONE BISCAYNE TOWER MS. DONNA H. STINSON SUITE 3636 HOPPING, BOYD, GREEN & SAMS MIAMI, FLORIDA 33131 123 SOUTH CALHOUN STREET TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32314 TELEPHONE: (305) 358-3000 TELEPHONE: (904) 222-7500 FOR RESPONDENT-INTERVENOR: FOR SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MR. THOMAS A.W. FITZGERALD MANAGEMENT DISTRICT: ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY MR. R. BENJAMINE REID SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA POPHAM, HAIK, SCHNOBRICH 155 SOUTH MIAMI AVENUE & KAUFMAN, LTD. SUITE 627 4100 ONE CENTRUST FINANCIAL MIAMI, FLORIDA 33130 CENTER 100 S.E. SECOND STREET MIAMI, FLORIDA 33131 TELEPHONE: (305) 536-4425 TELEPHONE: (305) 530-0050 FOR DUKE UNIVERSITY: MR. RALPH L. McCAUGHAN KING, WALKER, LAMBE & CRABTREE 3708 MAYFAIR STREET POST OFFICE BOX 51549 DURHAM, N.C. 27717 TELEPHONE: (919) 493-8411 DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 3 T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S E X A M I N A T I O N I N D E X DEPONENT - DR. KENNETH HOWLAND RECKHOW - 4/8-9/93 EXAMINATION: PAGES BY MR. REID 4-245 BY MR. FITZGERALD 245-308 ------------------------------------------------------- E X H I B I T S I N D E X NUMBER DESCRIPTION MARKED (EXHIBITS NUMBER #1 - #25 WERE MARKED DURING THE TAKING OF THE DEPOSITION OF DR. KENNETH H. RECKHOW, APRIL 8-9, 1993.) ------------------------------------------------------- SIGNATURE PAGE FOR DEPONENT 309 CERTIFICATION OF COURT REPORTER 310 DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 4 STIPULATIONS ON MOTION OF COUNSEL FOR THE SOUTH FLORIDA MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, THE DEPOSITION OF DR. KENNETH HOWLAND RECKHOW MAY BE TAKEN BEGINNING AT OR AROUND 12:28 P.M. ON APRIL 8, 1993, AT THE HILTON HOTEL, 3800 HILLSBOROUGH ROAD, THE EXECUTIVE BOARDROOM, DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA, BEFORE PAMELA S. LILES, A NOTARY PUBLIC. THE SIGNATURE OF THE WITNESS TO THE TRANSCRIPT OF HIS TESTIMONY IS HEREBY REQUIRED. - - - - - - - - - - - WHEREUPON, KENNETH HOWLAND RECKHOW, Ph.D., HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: EXAMINATION BY MR. REID: Q. WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME? A. FULL NAME? Q. YES, SIR. A. KENNETH HOWLAND RECKHOW. Q. AND WHAT IS YOUR ADDRESS? A. IT'S 2917 WADE ROAD, DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA. Q. WHAT DID YOU SAY YOUR MIDDLE NAME WAS? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 5 A. HOWLAND. Q. OH, HOWLAND. I THOUGHT YOU SAID ALLEN. A. YEAH. Q. AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE "H" WAS FOR. OKAY, BY WHOM ARE YOU EMPLOYED? A. DUKE UNIVERSITY. Q. AND WHAT IS YOUR TITLE? A. I'M AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT AND ALSO IN CIVIL AND ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING AND ALSO IN THE INSTITUTE OF STATISTICS AND DECISION SCIENCES. Q. OKAY. SO, I CAN UNDERSTAND BETTER HOW YOU FIT IN, CAN YOU -- I WANT YOU TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW DUKE IS ORGANIZED. YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT A SCHOOL, A DEPARTMENT, AND AN INSTITUTE. SO, CAN YOU START AT THE TOP AND WORK DOWN? A. SURE, AS BEST I KNOW. AND YOU MIGHT CORRECT ME OR ADD, RALPH. DUKE IS ORGANIZED ON THE BASIS OF SCHOOLS, WHICH MIGHT BE THOUGHT OF AS COLLEGES, AND COLLEGE -- OR SCHOOL OF ARTS AND SCIENCES, ENGINEERING, ENVIRONMENT, LAW, BUSINESS, ARE AMONG THOSE, DIVINITY. SO, SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT IS WHERE MY PRIMARY APPOINTMENT IS. AND ALL OF MY SALARY COMES THROUGH THE SCHOOL OF THE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 6 ENVIRONMENT. THE DEPARTMENT OF CIVIL ENGINEERING IS IN THE SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING, AND I HAVE A JOINT APPOINTMENT WITH THAT DEPARTMENT. WE HAVE NO DEPARTMENTS IN THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT. THE INSTITUTE OF STATISTICS AND DECISION SCIENCES IS YET ANOTHER STRUCTURE, SAY, LIKE THE WETLAND CENTER IS A -- CENTERS ARE STRUCTURES. EXACTLY HOW THAT FITS IN, I HAVE TO SAY, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S THROUGH THE PROVOST'S OFFICE, AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND. Q. OKAY. WELL, IF YOU'RE TAKING UNDERGRADUATE COURSES IN STATISTICS, WHICH SCHOOL WOULD YOU BE IN? A. YOU WOULD -- AS AN UNDERGRADUATE, YOU WOULD EITHER BE IN TRINITY COLLEGE, ARTS AND SCIENCES, OR IN ENGINEERING. Q. OKAY. AND ASSUMING YOU GET TO THE GRADUATE LEVEL IN STATISTICS, WHERE WOULD YOU FALL? A. YOU WOULD BE IN THE INSTITUTE OF STATISTICS AND DECISION SCIENCES IN--- Q. OKAY. SO IT--- A. ---PROBABLY THROUGH THE GRADUATE SCHOOL OF ARTS AND SCIENCES. Q. AND IT'S, IN EFFECT, A STAND-ALONE ENTITY? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 7 A. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT'S CORRECT. Q. OKAY. AND WHO IS THE HEAD OF THE INSTITUTE OF STATISTICS? WHAT IS THAT PERSON CALLED? A. MIKE WEST IS CALLED A "HEAD," NOT A "CHAIR." Q. OKAY. THE HEAD OF THE INSTITUTE. A. YEAH. Q. OKAY. NOW, YOU MENTIONED A CENTER A MOMENT AGO--- A. UH-HUH. Q. ---WHERE DOES A CENTER FIT INTO ALL OF THIS? A. WELL, CENTERS ARE FORMALLY -- CENTERS THAT HAVE BEEN FORMALLY IDENTIFIED AS CENTERS BY DUKE UNIVERSITY, AS FAR AS I KNOW, CAN EXIST IN ANY OF THESE ENTITIES -- SCHOOLS, DEPARTMENTS, INSTITUTES -- AND OFTEN ARE SET UP TO BRING IN FACULTY ACROSS, OR FROM OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAN THE HOST DEPARTMENT. Q. NOW, YOU MENTIONED THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER. A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. WHEN WAS THAT CREATED? A. OH, GEE, THREE YEARS AGO. Q. OKAY. AND, IF I WERE DRAWING A LITTLE DOTTED LINE, HOW WOULD THAT RELATE TO THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 8 A. THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT HAS SEVERAL CENTERS, AND THE WETLAND CENTER IS ONE CENTER WITHIN THE SCHOOL. Q. NOW, ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY DO? A. ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, DURING THE ACADEMIC YEAR, I'M INVOLVED IN TEACHING; ADVISING STUDENTS; ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIVITIES SUCH AS SERVING ON COMMITTEES; ADMISSIONS AND AWARDS COMMITTEE; MEETING WITH STUDENTS. Q. OKAY. IN A TYPICAL ACADEMIC YEAR, WHAT WOULD YOUR TEACHING LOAD BE? A. A COURSE A SEMESTER, PLUS A SEMINAR. Q. IS THAT WHAT YOU'D CALL A NORMAL TEACHING LOAD AT DUKE? A. THAT'S A NORMAL TEACHING LOAD IN THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT. I BELIEVE IT'S NORMAL AND TYPICAL OF MOST DEPARTMENTS. Q. OKAY. NOW, WHAT ARE YOU TEACHING THIS SEMESTER? A. DECISION THEORY AND RISK ANALYSIS. Q. TELL ME WHAT THAT IS. A. THAT INVOLVES STATISTICAL METHODS, TO SOME DEGREE, AND THE SCIENCE OF DECISION THEORY, HOW WE MAKE DECISIONS UNDER UNCERTAINTY. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 9 Q. OKAY. WOULD THAT BE RELATED TO THE INSTITUTE OF STATISTICS? A. IT COULD BE, BUT IT IS NOT. Q. OKAY. IT'S JUST A -- IS IT AN UNDERGRADUATE COURSE? A. NO, IT'S A GRADUATE AND PROFESSIONAL COURSE WITHIN THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT SEMINAR ARE YOU TEACHING THIS SEMESTER? A. I'M NOT. MY SEMINAR WAS GIVEN IN THE FALL. Q. OKAY. GIVE ME AN IDEA, GOING BACK OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, OF SOME OF THE COURSES THAT YOU'VE TAUGHT. A. THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, I'VE TAUGHT DECISION THEORY AND RISK ANALYSIS IN THE SPRING, WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT AS A COURSE IN THE FALL, AND WATER QUALITY MODELING AS A SEMINAR IN THE FALL. Q. OKAY. AND THAT'S BEEN FOR HOW MANY YEARS, WOULD YOU SAY? A. OH, FIVE, SIX YEARS. Q. THE WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT, WOULD THAT BE A GRADUATE-LEVEL COURSE? A. YEAH. THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT, UP UNTIL THIS FALL, HAS ONLY BEEN FOR GRADUATE AND DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 10 PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS. NOW, PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS ARE NOT UNLIKE MBA STUDENTS IN THAT THEY ARE POST-UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE PURSUING A PROFESSIONAL DEGREE THAT TRAINS THEM TO PRACTICE THE PROFESSION OF ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES. Q. AND I ASSUME THE MODELING COURSE WOULD ALSO BE FOR GRADUATE OR PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS? A. YES. Q. DO YOU -- IN YOUR DECISION THEORY AND RISK ANALYSIS COURSE, DO YOU HAVE A STANDARD TEXTBOOK THAT YOU USE? A. YES. THE LAST TWO YEARS, I HAVE USED A COURSE -- A TEXT BY VON WINTERFELDT AND EDWARDS ENTITLED DECISION ANALYSIS AND BEHAVIORAL RESEARCH. Q. VON WINTERFELDT? A. VON WINTERFELDT, YES. Q. AND ELLIS? A. NO. VON WINTERFELDT AND EDWARDS. Q. EDWARDS, I'M SORRY. OKAY. AND WHAT TEXT DO YOU USE IN THE WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT COURSE? A. THE LAST TWO YEARS, I HAVE NOT USED A TEXT. Q. OKAY. WHAT HAVE YOU USED FOR COURSE MATERIALS? A. IN ALL MY COURSES, I HAVE ALL MY LECTURE NOTES PHOTOCOPIED AND HAND THOSE -- OR ACTUALLY HAVE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 11 THOSE SOLD BY AN ORGANIZATION THAT PROVIDES COURSE PACKS FOR UNIVERSITIES. Q. WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT COURSE -- OF THAT ORGANIZATION? A. I MAY -- I HAVE TO SAY I CAN'T RECALL. THEY'RE LOCATED IN RALEIGH. THEY USED TO GO UNDER THE NAME "UNLIMITED POTENTIAL." NOW, THEY MAY STILL USE THAT NAME. NAME COULD BE OBTAINED THROUGH THE BOOKSTORE. Q. CAN STUDENTS BUY THIS COURSE MATERIAL THROUGH THE BOOKSTORE AT DUKE? A. YES, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. I HAVE THE COPIER COPY AND BIND THE NOTES, AND THEN THEY ARE SOLD TO THE BOOKSTORE. Q. AND YOU'VE BEEN USING THESE FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS, YOU SAY? A. WELL, IN WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT, I HAVE NOT USED A TEXT FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS. IN ALL OF MY COURSES, I'VE USED THE COURSE PACKS FOR, OH, THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE, SIX YEARS. Q. OKAY. WHAT WAS THE -- MORE THAN TWO YEARS AGO WHAT TEXT DID YOU USE IN WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT? A. A TEXT BY TCHOBANOGLOUS AND SCHROEDER ENTITLED, WATER QUALITY. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 12 Q. CAN YOU SPELL THE FIRST ONE FOR THE--- A. YEAH. T-C-H-O-B-A-N-O-G-L-O-U-S. Q. SAY THAT AGAIN, T-C -- I RAN--- A. T-C-H-O-B-A-N-O-G-L-O-U-S, I THINK. Q. AND SCHROEDER? A. SCHROEDER, S-C-H-R-O-E-D-E-R. Q. OKAY. NOW, IN YOUR MODELING SEMINAR, DO YOU -- YOU USE YOUR COURSE MATERIALS, I ASSUME. A. I HAVE A TEXT AND I'VE USED THE COURSE LECTURE--- Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WAS THE TEXT? A. THE TEXT IS ENGINEERING APPROACHES FOR LAKE MANAGEMENT, VOLUME 2. Q. BY WHOM? A. RECKHOW -- OR CHAPRA AND RECKHOW. Q. OKAY. I ASSUME THAT'S YOU. A. YES. Q. ALL RIGHT. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE DECISION THEORY COURSE FOR A LITTLE BIT. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. IF YOU WERE GOING TO DESCRIBE THIS COURSE TO SOMEBODY WHO WAS INTERESTED IN TAKING IT, HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE IT? A. A PROSPECTIVE STUDENT -- SOMEONE WHO HAS SOME ACADEMIC TRAINING--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 13 Q. RIGHT. WHO--- A. ---I WOULD DESCRIBE IT AS A COURSE THAT MAKES USE OF BASIC PROBABILITY AND STATISTICS AND PROVIDES A FOUNDATION IN DECISION THEORY, THE THEORY OF DECISION MAKING UNDER UNCERTAINTY, BUT, IN ADDITION, PROVIDES A NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS OF DECISION THEORY, CALLED DECISION ANALYSIS, AS TO HOW WE TAKE UNCERTAIN SCIENCE AND VALUE JUDGMENTS TO HELP GUIDE DECISION MAKING UNDER UNCERTAINTY. Q. NOW, ARE YOU TAKING ACTUAL DATA AND LOOKING AT IT FOR ITS CREDIBILITY? A. IN THE COURSE? Q. YEAH. A. NO. Q. OKAY. I THINK OF -- IN MY MIND, I THINK OF TWO -- YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT DECISION MAKING, THERE'S THIS BODY OF WORK WHERE YOU -- SOMETHING CALLED DECISION TREES AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. A. YES, THAT'S PART OF IT. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. DO YOU -- IS THAT PART OF YOURS, AS WELL? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. NOW, I DON'T THINK OF THAT AS BEING PARTICULARLY MATHEMATICAL. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 14 A. NO, NO. Q. SO, PART OF YOUR COURSE WORK IS -- PART OF YOUR WORK IS -- WOULD BE IN DEALING WITH SUBJECTIVE EVALUATION. A. JUDGMENTAL PROBABILITIES AND PREFERENCES, WHICH ARE VERY LIKELY TO REFLECT JUDGMENTS. Q. OKAY. DOES PART OF IT ALSO DEAL WITH MATHEMATICAL APPROACHES TO THIS SAME SUBJECT MATTER? A. PART OF THE CLASSES I TEACH? Q. YES. RIGHT. A. TO A LIMITED DEGREE, YES. Q. IN TERMS OF FIVE PERCENT SIGNIFICANT PROBABILITY AND THINGS LIKE THAT? DOES THAT -- YOU GET INTO THAT AREA IN THIS COURSE? A. NO. THAT WOULD -- THAT'S -- ALTHOUGH, WE HAVE IN THE PAST -- HYPOTHESIS TESTING, YOU'RE REFERRING TO? Q. RIGHT. A. AND I HAVEN'T IN THE LAST TWO YEARS. IT IS CONSIDERED ONE OF THE QUANTITATIVE COURSES IN THE SCHOOL THAT PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS CHOOSE FROM. Q. NOW, WHAT IS CONSIDERED A QUANTITATIVE, YOUR COURSE? A. THE DECISION THEORY AND RISK ANALYSIS COURSE. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 15 Q. OKAY. AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN, IT'S CONSIDERED A QUANTITATIVE COURSE? A. WELL, THERE ARE CERTAIN COURSES THAT ARE IDENTIFIED IN A SET OF COURSE OPTIONS THAT ARE MORE QUANTITATIVE IN NATURE, AND IT IS ONE OF THOSE. IT IS NOT HEAVILY MATHEMATICAL, THOUGH I DO ASSIGN PROBLEM SETS. SO, THERE ARE CALCULATIONS MADE IN THE COURSE OF THE COURSE. Q. OKAY. HAS ANY OF THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE IN THIS CASE BEEN A TYPE MATERIAL THAT YOU WOULD HAVE COVERED IN THIS CLASS? A. BY "IN THIS CASE," YOU MEAN? Q. THE EVERGLADES LITIGATION. A. I'M TRYING TO THINK. NOT THIS YEAR. LAST YEAR, I TALKED ABOUT DECISION MAKING IN THE EVERGLADES JUST IN A VERY GENERAL SENSE. JUST--- Q. OKAY. MAYBE MY QUESTION WASN'T CLEAR. WE'LL GET INTO THIS LATER IN TERMS OF WHAT YOUR ASSIGNMENT HAS BEEN IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. WHEN I SAY "THIS CASE," DO YOU UNDERSTAND I MEAN THE SWIM CHALLENGE AND THE ENTIRE RESTORATION ISSUES RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES? A. THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING IN TERMS OF, YES. UH-HUH (YES). DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 16 Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT I'M INTERESTED TO KNOW IS, HAVE YOU DONE ANY WORK IN THIS CASE THAT YOU COULD POINT TO SOMETHING IN YOUR COURSE THAT--- A. OH, I SEE. I LOOKED THE OTHER WAY, YEAH. Q. ---YOU DRAW UPON -- THE PRINCIPLES. YOU LOOKED THE OTHER WAY, EXACTLY. A. YEAH. CERTAIN -- NOT FOR THE PROJECT THAT INVOLVES THIS GROUP. NOW, YOU -- SO, NO, NOT FOR THAT -- THIS PROJECT THAT SONG AND I ARE WORKING ON. Q. OKAY. AND YOU HAVEN'T USED A DECISION TREE ANALYSIS, FOR INSTANCE, ON ANY EVERGLADES RELATED SUBJECT? A. WELL, YOU'RE BROADENING IT BECAUSE--- Q. OKAY. A. ---WITH REGARDS TO THE WORK THAT I'M DOING FOR THE SUGAR CANE COOPERATIVE, THE ANSWER IS NO. Q. WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE THE ANSWER YES? YOU'RE ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT SOMETHING. A. WELL, YOU ARE PROBABLY AWARE THAT I AM ALSO WORKING FOR THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. Q. RIGHT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 17 A. OKAY. AND IN THE CONTEXT OF EXPERIENCES WITH THE DISTRICT, PRIOR TO BEING INVOLVED IN THIS PARTICULAR WORK, TO ANY DEGREE, I'VE THOUGHT OF THE EVERGLADES ISSUE IN A DECISION ANALYTIC CONTEXT AND DID LAY OUT A FRAMEWORK FOR THINKING ABOUT THE EVERGLADES PROBLEM IN THE DECISION ANALYSIS CLASS. Q. OKAY. WOULD THAT BE REFLECTED IN YOUR NOTES THAT THE STUDENTS CAN BUY? A. NO, IT WASN'T. I GAVE A HANDOUT. IT WASN'T THIS YEAR, BECAUSE I DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT THIS YEAR AT ALL. IT WAS LAST YEAR ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH THE SEMESTER. WHAT I OFTEN DO IS REALIZE THAT THE STUDENTS ARE IN NEED OF REINFORCEMENT IN A PARTICULAR AREA, AND I'LL CHANGE THE LECTURE, AND I DID THAT LAST YEAR. AND, SO, I ADDED A HANDOUT AND USED THAT EXAMPLE OF DECISION MAKING IN THE EVERGLADES AS A CASE STUDY. Q. CAN YOU GIVE ME A PARAGRAPH ABOUT WHAT THE HANDOUT REFLECTED? A. YEAH. IT WAS VERY GENERAL. IT SIMPLY IDENTIFIED THE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM, THAT THERE WAS WATER AND NUTRIENT COMING FROM THE NORTH AND FLOWING INTO THE EVERGLADES. AND THERE WAS CONCERN WITH DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 18 REGARDS TO WHAT THE PHOSPHORUS LEVEL SHOULD BE IN THE WATER FLOWING INTO THE EVERGLADES. AND I DEVELOPED WHAT'S CALLED AN OBJECTIVES HIERARCHY FOR THAT ANALYSIS, WHICH IDENTIFIES -- IT'S A GRAPHICAL DEVICE THAT LOOKS LIKE A FLOWCHART, IN A SENSE, TOP TO BOTTOM, AND HELPS A DECISION ANALYST IDENTIFY SPECIFIC OBJECTIVES IN A PROBLEM. BEYOND THAT, I CAN'T TELL YOU, BECAUSE I JUST DON'T REMEMBER THE DETAILS. THE PURPOSE OF THE EXERCISE, THOUGH, WAS TO CONVINCE STUDENTS THAT THE MATERIAL THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THE CLASS, WHICH APPEARED TO BE SOMEWHAT ABSTRACT FROM REAL WORLD PROBLEMS, MIGHT HELP US THINK ABOUT REAL WORLD PROBLEMS; SO, I JUST BEGAN THE THINKING ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR PROBLEM. THE SPECIFICS THAT WE DISCUSSED, I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT YOUR DECISION THEORY, OF COURSE. A. YEAH, YEAH. Q. OKAY. IS THAT HANDOUT STILL AVAILABLE? A. I WOULD THINK -- PROBABLY SOMEWHERE IN MY NOTES, YEAH. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. NOW, WITH REGARD TO YOUR WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT COURSE, WHAT DO YOU COVER, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 19 GENERALLY, IN THAT COURSE? A. THAT'S A BROAD COURSE INTENDED FOR BEGINNING STUDENTS IN THE PROGRAM. AND IT COVERS AN INTRODUCTION TO SCIENCE OF CONCERN TO SURFACE WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT, SOME BASIC BIOLOGY AND CHEMISTRY CONCEPTS. IT MOVES TO A DISCUSSION AS TO HOW LAND USE AFFECTS WATER QUALITY, POLLUTANTS THAT MIGHT BE THOUGHT TO RUN OFF VARIOUS LAND USE TYPES AND CATEGORIES. IT THEN MOVES TO AN OVERVIEW OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS RELEVANT TO SURFACE WATER QUALITY, AND THEN GOES INTO A FINAL, FAIRLY LENGTHY SET OF TOPICS DEALING WITH WATER QUALITY SIMULATION MODELING. THIS IS ALL AT A VERY BASIC LEVEL. Q. OKAY. IS THERE ANYTHING, SPECIFICALLY, IN YOUR COURSE THAT YOU'VE DRAWN ON IN YOUR WORK IN THIS CASE -- IN THAT PARTICULAR COURSE? A. OH, IN THIS? WITH REGARDS AGAIN TO THE SUGAR CANE COOPERATIVE AND THIS EXERCISE WITH SONG, NO; AND WITH REGARDS TO THE EVERGLADES, NO. Q. OKAY. NOW, YOUR LAST COURSE WAS ACTUALLY A SEMINAR, MODELING. TELL ME WHAT YOU COVER IN THAT COURSE OR THAT SEMINAR. A. IN THAT COURSE, WE -- I START OUT BY GIVING A DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 20 SERIES OF LECTURES DEALING WITH WHAT'S CALLED MECHANISTIC MODELING; MODELS THAT ARE BASED ON SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING RELATING POLLUTANT INPUT TO WATER QUALITY, PARTICULARLY, IN LAKES, BUT ALSO IN RIVERS. AND, IN ADDITION, I TALK ABOUT STATISTICAL ISSUES, NOTABLY, TREND ANALYSIS. AND THEN, THAT FOLLOWS -- THAT'S FOLLOWED BY STUDENT PRESENTATION -- STUDENT SEMINARS ON TOPICS THAT THEY CHOOSE TO WORK ON. Q. IN THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS, HAVE ANY STUDENTS WORKED SPECIFICALLY ON TOPICS RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES SITUATION? A. YES. CONRAD LAMON, A Ph.D. STUDENT OF MINE, WHO WORKED DURING THE SUMMER FOR THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, USED A MODELING TOOL CALLED "STELLA" TO LOOK AT -- I BELIEVE LOOK AT PHOSPHORUS AND WATER MOVEMENT IN WCA-2A. Q. "STELLA" -- IS THAT AN ACRONYM? A. I CAN'T RECALL. Q. OKAY. WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THIS PARTICULAR EXERCISE? A. IT WAS MAINLY TO GAIN EXPERIENCE IN A MODELING APPROACH THAT GAVE HIM FAMILIARITY WITH THE TECHNIQUE ON THE MACINTOSH, STELLA, AND EXPERIENCE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 21 IN WRITTEN AND ORAL PRESENTATION. Q. OKAY. DID THAT ULTIMATELY COME TO ANY FORMAL PRESENTATION IN WRITING OR--- A. HE WROTE A FINAL REPORT FOR THE CLASS, YEAH. Q. OKAY. AND, SO, YOU HAVE A COPY OF THAT, FOR INSTANCE? A. NO. NO. Q. OKAY. WAS THERE ANYTHING IN HIS WORK THAT YOU HAVE USED OR RELIED ON OR IN ANY WAY CONSIDERED? A. NO. NO. Q. WHY IS THAT? A. IT'S JUST, I GUESS, A COUPLE OF REASONS. I WASN'T THINKING, AT THE TIME, OF GOING THROUGH IT FOR THE PURPOSE OF GLEANING THINGS OUT FOR THIS WORK. AND MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT DIDN'T LEAD TO ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE OF VALUE IN THOSE TERMS. IT WAS A GOOD EDUCATIONAL EXERCISE FOR HIM. Q. UH-HUH (YES). WHAT WAS HIS HYPOTHESIS OR WHAT WAS HE TRYING TO FIND OUT? A. I CAN'T RECALL, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE WE SET IT UP IN TERMS OF AN HYPOTHESIS. I LOOKED AT IT FOR HIM AS AN EXPERIENCE IN WORKING WITH A MODELING TOOL. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 22 Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU USE THE TERM "MODEL"? A. I TEND TO USE IT AS HAVING AN IMPLIED MATHEMATICAL IN FRONT OF IT. AND I TEND TO REFER TO A MODEL THAT SIMULATES OR DESCRIBES, AS OPPOSED TO ONE THAT OPTIMIZES. AND, THEREFORE, AS A RULE, WHEN I USE THE WORD "MODEL," I'M REFERRING TO AN EQUATION OR SET OF EQUATIONS THAT ARE USED TO DESCRIBE SOMETHING, SUCH AS THE -- THE POLLUTANT TRANSPORTING FEE. Q. NOW, YOU SAID THAT THE -- YOU LOOKED AT MODELS THAT SIMULATE RATHER THAN OPTIMIZE. A. YES. Q. WHAT -- DESCRIBE FOR ME A MODEL THAT WOULD OPTIMIZE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? A. BY THAT, I MEAN A MODEL THAT MIGHT BE USED TO MINIMIZE THE COST OF WASTEWATER TREATMENT SUBJECT TO A CONSTRAINT, SUCH AS ALLOWABLE DISCHARGE. Q. OKAY. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF EACH THAT WOULD DEMONSTRATE THE DIFFERENCE? A. YES. A SIMULATION MODEL IS ONE THAT MIGHT HAVE AS INPUT TO THE MODEL POLLUTANT LOADING AND MIGHT PREDICT POLLUTANT CONCENTRATION IN A WATER BODY OF INTEREST. AND, THEREFORE, IT MIGHT BE USED TO DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 23 EVALUATE SCENARIOS LEADING TO VARIOUS POLLUTANT LOADS. Q. SO, THAT YOU WOULD ASSUME A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WHATEVER POLLUTANT YOU'RE DEALING WITH WAS INTRODUCED INTO A BODY OF WATER? A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. WOULD THAT BE IN TERMS OF A LOAD OR IN TERMS OF CONCENTRATION? A. IT COULD BE EITHER. Q. OKAY. AND THEN, YOUR MODEL WOULD BE A SERIES OF EQUATIONS THAT WOULD--- A. OR A SINGLE EQUATION. Q. ---OR A SINGLE EQUATION, THAT WOULD TELL YOU WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT, WHERE, AT THE END -- AT THE OTHER END OF THE BODY OF WATER GOING OUT OR--- A. IT DEPENDS ON THE MODEL. IT COULD BE WITHIN THE WATER BODY AT THE OUTLET. IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE MODEL. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT -- HOW, THEN, WOULD YOU USE THIS MODEL? OR, AT THIS POINT, YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN USING IT; YOU'RE JUST INTERESTED IN FINDING OUT WHAT HAPPENS. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? A. WELL, IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE SITUATION. IF I WAS TO USE THE MODEL, I MIGHT USE IT TO EVALUATE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 24 VARIOUS SCENARIOS OF POLLUTANT INPUT THAT MIGHT BE ASSOCIATED WITH VARIOUS MANAGEMENT PLANS. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU'D PLAY AROUND WITH THE LOAD GOING IN PERHAPS OR--- A. YES. Q. ---SOME OF THE CONDITIONS THAT EXIST IN THE BODY OF WATER--- A. YES. Q. ---TO FIND OUT HOW THOSE THINGS MIGHT AFFECT THE RESULT? A. YES. Q. OKAY. NOW, GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF A MODEL THAT WOULD OPTIMIZE. A. A MODEL THAT WOULD OPTIMIZE OFTEN INVOLVES, AS I MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO, MAXIMIZING OR MINIMIZING THIS -- THE EXAMPLE I GAVE A MOMENT AGO CONCERNED USING IT TO MINIMIZE COSTS; IDENTIFY, PERHAPS -- IF WE WERE USING IT FOR, LET'S SAY, DESIGN OF A WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT, DETERMINING WHAT DESIGN FACTORS -- WATER LOAD, POLLUTANT LOAD; OTHER DESIGN FACTORS THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE -- TO IDENTIFY THE DESIGN FACTORS THAT WOULD LEAD TO A MINIMUM COST MANAGEMENT SOLUTION, OFTEN SUBJECT TO CONSTRAINTS; AND CONSTRAINTS COULD BE ALLOWABLE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 25 DISCHARGE CONCENTRATIONS OF CONTAMINANTS OF CONCERN. Q. SO, YOU'D PLUG THAT IN, IN EFFECT, AS A GIVEN OR AS A REQUIREMENT--- A. YES. Q. ---FOR THE END? A. YOU HAVE TO MEET THESE CONCENTRATIONS OF BIOCHEMICAL OXYGEN DEMAND, FOR EXAMPLE. Q. AND THEN -- SO, THEN, YOU WOULD -- YOU WOULD PUT IN WHAT'S COMING IN AT THE OTHER -- AT THE BEGINNING AND DEAL WITH WAYS TO MEET THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU WANT TO REACH? A. WITH THE OBJECTIVE OF -- IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE THAT I SET OUT -- MINIMIZE -- IDENTIFYING A DESIGN THAT MINIMIZES COST. Q. HOW LONG HAVE PEOPLE BEEN USING THIS MODELING APPROACH IN THE WATER QUALITY AREA? A. I CAN ONLY GUESS ON THAT. SIMULATION MODELING FOR SURFACE WATER QUALITY GOES BACK TO THE MID-20'S, LOOKING AT DISSOLVED OXYGEN IN STREAMS. OPTIMIZATION MODELS MAY GO BACK JUST TO THE EARLY '60'S, BUT I'M NOT SURE. Q. PROBABLY BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN PEOPLE GOT INTERESTED IN DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT, I GUESS. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 26 A. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. Q. OKAY. THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE. IS THIS APPROACH TO MODELING USED IN OTHER AREAS, AS WELL? A. THE SIMULATION MODELING, YES. Q. CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES? A. I'M MUCH LESS FAMILIAR--- Q. SURE. A. ---WITH OTHER AREAS, AND I'M MORE FAMILIAR WITH SIMULATION THAN WITH OPTIMIZATION. SIMULATION MODELING IS USED, FOR EXAMPLE, TO DESCRIBE THE EFFECTIVE AIR QUALITY POLLUTANT CONTROLS ON STACKS -- ON EMITTERS, ON AMBIENT AIR CONCENTRATIONS AT SOME POINT OF INTEREST. Q. CAN YOU THINK OF ONE TOTALLY OUTSIDE THE POLLUTION AREA? MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO THE QUESTION ON THE GROUNDS OF RELEVANCE. YOU CAN ANSWER. MR. REID: THOSE OBJECTIONS ARE PRESERVED. GO AHEAD. A. WHAT--- MS. STINSON: YOU MAY ANSWER. WITNESS: I MAY ANSWER? OKAY. MS. STINSON: IF YOU CAN. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 27 MR. REID: OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T WANT HIM TO ANSWER IF -- I'LL JUST SAY THIS FOR THE REST OF THE DEPOSITION -- IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T ANSWER. WITNESS: I--- MS. STINSON: YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO SPECULATE--- A. OKAY. WELL, I GUESS I--- MS. STINSON: ---IF YOU DON'T KNOW. WITNESS: OKAY. A. ---I'M SURE THEY ARE USED. I JUST -- I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE. Q. YOU CAN'T NAME--- A. NO, I CAN'T IDENTIFY SPECIFICALLY. Q. OKAY. WHAT WOULD BE THE ALTERNATIVE TO SOMEONE IN YOUR POSITION TO USING THE MODELING TECHNIQUES? A. FOR WHAT PURPOSE? Q. FOR -- ASSUMING YOU WANT TO REACH THE SAME CONCLUSION; FOR THE SAME REASON YOU'RE DOING MODELING. ARE THERE OTHER ALTERNATIVE MEANS OF REACHING THE SAME RESULT? A. CERTAINLY. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE? A. EXPERT JUDGMENT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 28 Q. OKAY. YOU COULD ALSO GO OUT AND JUST TAKE SAMPLES, COULDN'T YOU? A. WELL, THE SCENARIO THAT IT STRIKES ME A SIMULATION MODEL IS USEFUL FOR IS PREDICTIVE AND SAMPLES REFLECT CURRENT SITUATION OF THE PAST. Q. ARE THERE OTHER TECHNIQUES FOR PREDICTING THE FUTURE BESIDES MODELING? A. EXPERT JUDGMENT, AGAIN. Q. ASIDE FROM THAT? A. I THINK, GIVEN THE WAY WE HAVE DEFINED MODELING AS SIMULATION MODELING AND GIVEN THE BREADTH OF COVERAGE OF EXPERT JUDGMENT, IT'S HARD -- IMMEDIATELY, I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING THAT WOULD CLEARLY NOT FIT UNDER ONE CATEGORY OR THE OTHER. Q. WHERE WOULD THINGS SUCH AS TREND ANALYSES FALL? A. TREND ANALYSIS IS A MODELING TECHNIQUE. IT'S A STATISTICAL TECHNIQUE. IT, GENERALLY, IS THOUGHT OF AS RETROSPECTIVE. YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE PAST. Q. AS A WAY TO PREDICT THE FUTURE? A. NOT NECESSARILY. Q. OKAY. SO HOW ABOUT A REGRESSION ANALYSIS? WOULD THAT BE THE SAME THING? A. NO. IT WOULD DEPEND ON WHAT YOU WERE REGRESSING. Q. OKAY. HOW WOULD YOU -- WOULD THAT -- COULD THAT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 29 BE USED AS A PREDICTIVE--- A. CERTAINLY. Q. ---APPROACH? HOW WOULD YOU USE IT AS A PREDICTIVE APPROACH? A. IN MANY WAYS. Q. IN THE WATER QUALITY CONTEXT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. A. BUT EVEN WITHIN THE WATER QUALITY CONTEXT, IN MANY WAYS. Q. WELL, LET'S GO BACK TO YOUR MODEL -- THE EXAMPLE YOU GAVE ME FOR YOUR MODEL. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. IN THAT SPECIFIC SITUATION, WOULD YOU USE -- COULD YOU USE REGRESSION ANALYSIS? A. CERTAINLY. YOU COULD -- IF YOU HAD DATA, LET'S SAY, ON POLLUTANT INPUT ON RESPONSE OF CONCERN AND ON FACTORS THAT RELATE TO HOW THE POLLUTANT INPUT IS CONVERTED INTO THE RESPONSIVE CONCERN, SAY, THE CONCENTRATION, YOU COULD USE THOSE DATA AND REGRESSION ANALYSIS TO FIT A MODEL TO ALLOW YOU TO PREDICT THAT RESPONSIVE CONCERN -- THE CONCENTRATION AS A FUNCTION OF THE INPUT AND THE OTHER FACTORS THAT ARE IMPORTANT. AND THAT MODEL COULD WELL BE USED IN A PREDICTIVE SENSE. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 30 Q. I GUESS I'M HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING. WHEN YOU MAKE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN JUDGMENT OR EVALUATING THE PRESENT AND THE PAST--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---AS OPPOSED TO WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT A MINUTE AGO IN THE MODELING, AREN'T YOU, IN EFFECT, USING PRESENT AND PAST DATA TO--- A. THE DIFFERENCE -- YOU REFERRED--- Q. ---CREATE YOUR MODEL? A. ---TO TREND ANALYSIS. TREND ANALYSIS IS SIMPLY LOOKING AT A -- IF WE CONFINE IT TO ONE VARIABLE OR SEVERAL ONE-VARIABLE ANALYSES, IT'S SIMPLY LOOKING AT HOW LEVELS OF THAT VARIABLE HAVE TRACKED OVER TIME. IT HAS NOTHING THAT IS CORRELATIVE WITH REGARDS TO RELATING IT TO ANOTHER VARIABLE. Q. MEANING THE NEXT ONE, THE FUTURE? A. NO, MEANING THE LOADING. IN OTHER WORDS, WE COULD DO A TREND OF LOADING OVER TIME. WE COULD DO A TREND OF IN-LAKE CONCENTRATION OVER TIME. WHAT THE REGRESSION IS DOING IS LINKING THOSE TWO. Q. OKAY. NOW, IN YOUR -- STRIKE THAT. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 31 WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) WITNESS: I WONDER IN ABOUT TEN OR FIFTEEN MINUTES IF WE CAN TAKE A BREAK--- MR. REID: OKAY. SURE. WITNESS: ---SO I CAN HAVE A SANDWICH? MR. REID: OKAY. EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. I'VE LOOKED AT YOUR RESUME, AND I WANTED TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT SOME THINGS THERE. YOUR UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE FROM CORNELL IS LISTED AS ENGINEERING PHYSICS. WHAT SPECIFIC AREAS DID YOU FOCUS ON? A. I DIDN'T FOCUS, ACTUALLY, OTHER THAN -- ENGINEERING DEGREES ARE HIGHLY STRUCTURED AND YOU HAVE RELATIVELY FEW OPTIONS. AND I TOOK THE STANDARD CURRICULUM IN ENGINEERING PHYSICS. Q. OKAY. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT TO DO WITH THAT DEGREE OR -- GO TO SCHOOL SOME MORE, OBVIOUSLY. A. YEAH. Q. NO, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WERE YOU GOING TO BUILD BUILDINGS? A. YEAH. I DIDN'T -- I HONESTLY DIDN'T--- Q. WERE YOU GOING TO CONSTRUCT WETLANDS OR--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 32 A. ---KNOW. I WAS NOT, AT THAT TIME, TERRIBLY THOUGHTFUL ABOUT WHERE I WAS HEADED WITH MY PROGRAM. IT LOOKED INTERESTING, AND I WENT INTO IT. Q. OKAY. DID YOU HAVE ANY WORK IN YOUR UNDERGRADUATE DEGREES THAT DEALT WITH WATER QUALITY CONSIDERATIONS? A. NO. Q. ANYTHING AT ALL THAT RELATES TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW, DIRECTLY? A. NOT DIRECTLY. Q. OKAY. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, IT, I UNDERSTAND, GENERALLY--- A. YEAH. IT ALL RELATES, YEAH. Q. ---IT ALL RELATES AT SOME LEVEL, BUT--- A. YEAH. Q. ---I'M TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICALLY. A. NO. Q. OKAY. NOW, WHAT LED YOU TO HARVARD INTO ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE? A. IN MY SENIOR YEAR AT CORNELL, FALL SEMESTER, I REALIZED THAT ENGINEERING PHYSICS WAS NOT FOR ME AS A CAREER. AND I WENT OVER TO THE CIVIL ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT AND MET SOME FACULTY AND DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 33 INQUIRED ABOUT BECOMING INVOLVED WITH PROJECTS IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES. AND WHAT STIMULATED ME TO LOOK INTO ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES, I DON'T RECALL. BUT I SUSPECT IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH EARTH DAY. AND I MET A PROFESSOR, CHARLES REVELLE, WHO WAS WORKING ON SOLID WASTE RECYCLE, SPECIFICALLY, JUNK CARS. AND IT WAS FORTUITOUS. HE WAS LOOKING FOR SOME HELP ON A PROJECT. AND HE INVOLVED ME ON A PROJECT. I BECAME INTERESTED IN IT, AND WE DEVELOPED A GOOD WORKING AND PERSONAL RAPPORT. I DECIDED ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES WAS A CAREER THAT I WANTED TO PURSUE OR, AT LEAST, EXPLORE MORE. AND HE GUIDED ME IN THE DIRECTION OF GRADUATE PROGRAMS. AND SO I APPLIED TO SEVERAL AND CHOSE HARVARD. Q. OKAY. NOW, IN YOUR WORK FOR YOUR MASTER'S, DID YOU DEAL WITH ANY AREAS THAT YOU NOW DEAL WITH IN WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND WHAT YOU'RE HERE ABOUT? A. WHEN I STARTED AT HARVARD, I INTENDED TO GO INTO SOLID WASTE RECYCLE BECAUSE OF THAT -- BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I HAD BEEN EXPOSED TO. AND THE MASTER OF SCIENCE, OR S.M. DEGREE, AT HARVARD IS HANDED TO YOU AFTER A YEAR OF COURSE WORK; NO THESIS REQUIREMENT. IT'S JUST -- I WAS IN A Ph.D. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 34 PROGRAM. AND THAT WAS LITERALLY IN THE MAIL AFTER A YEAR. SO, ALL I HAD DONE WAS TAKE ONE YEAR OF COURSES. AND I DON'T RECALL AFTER ONE YEAR THAT I HAD ANY PARTICULAR CHANGE IN CAREER DIRECTION AT THAT TIME. Q. OKAY. AND, AS YOU CONTINUED, AT SOME POINT YOU DID, I ASSUME. A. YES, I DID. I--- Q. AND WHERE -- WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN? A. SOMETIME -- IT COULD HAVE OCCURRED IN THE SECOND SEMESTER OF THAT FIRST YEAR. IT COULD HAVE OCCURRED IN THE FIRST SEMESTER OF THE SECOND YEAR, JUST AFTER THE S.M. DEGREE. I BECAME INTERESTED IN WATER QUALITY; HAD TAKEN SOME COURSES DEALING WITH CHEMISTRY AND BIOLOGY. AND THEN IN THE SUMMER BETWEEN MY SECOND AND THIRD YEARS AT HARVARD, I HAD A SUMMER JOB SUPPORTED THROUGH THE APPALACHIAN MOUNTAIN CLUB ON LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE, NEW HAMPSHIRE, DOING SOME WATER QUALITY SAMPLES. AND THAT WAS QUITE INTERESTING TO ME AND REALLY LED TO THE EMPHASIS IN WATER QUALITY. Q. WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING FOR IN LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE? A. JUST BACKGROUND DATA COLLECTION THAT WOULD AID THE REGIONAL PLANNING AGENCY, LAKES REGION PLANNING DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 35 COMMISSION, IN UNDERSTANDING SOMETHING ABOUT HOW THE DEVELOPMENT OCCURRING IN THE LAKE'S REGION WAS AFFECTING WATER QUALITY. Q. AND YOU WERE BASICALLY SAMPLING? WAS THAT THE EXTENT OF THE WORK? A. YEAH. I WAS SAMPLING. I WAS ALSO HELPING TO WRITE SOME NON-TECHNICAL MATERIAL ON WATER QUALITY CONCEPTS FOR THE LAYPERSON THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION COULD DISTRIBUTE TO HELP EXPLAIN WHY THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT WATER QUALITY. Q. AND SO, WHEN YOU CAME BACK TO HARVARD DID YOU BEGIN TO TAKE COURSES IN THE -- RELATING TO WATER QUALITY? A. WELL, BY THAT TIME -- THE THIRD YEAR IS REALLY THE POINT AT WHICH YOU SWITCH FROM EMPHASIS OF COURSE WORK TO EMPHASIS ON RESEARCH. AND SO, WHEN I CAME BACK TO HARVARD I TOOK MY QUALIFYING EXAM FOR THE Ph.D. AND PRESENTED AT THAT EXAM SOME MATERIAL DEALING WITH WATER QUALITY MODELING AS THE DIRECTION -- PROPOSED DIRECTION FOR MY DISSERTATION. Q. WAS THAT RELATED TO THE WORK YOU HAD DONE IN THE SUMMER OR A DIFFERENT WORK? A. NOT REALLY -- WELL, IN THE SENSE THAT IT DEALT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 36 WITH EUTROPHICATION. BUT THE SUMMER WORK INVOLVED FIELD STUDIES IN NON-TECHNICAL WRITING; WHEREAS, THE DISSERTATION WAS APT TO INVOLVE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS AND MODELING. Q. WHAT'S EUTROPHICATION? A. NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT. Q. AND WHAT DREW YOU TO THAT PARTICULAR TOPIC? A. I CAN'T RECALL EXACTLY, BUT I THINK, LIKELY, THE WORK IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHICH FOCUSED ON EUTROPHICATION; COUPLED WITH THE FACT THAT THE U.S. EPA WAS IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THE NATIONAL EUTROPHICATION SURVEY, WHICH IS A MONITORING PROGRAM THAT WAS -- THAT TOOK PLACE IN THE EARLY '70'S THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY MONITORING ROUGHLY 700 LAKES FOR NUTRIENT INPUTS AND NUTRIENT CONCENTRATIONS IN THE LAKES. AND SO, THERE WAS OPPORTUNITY TO GET AN EARLY LOOK AT A NATIONWIDE DATA SET. Q. WAS THERE ANY FOCUS ON PARTICULAR NUTRIENTS OR JUST ON THE--- A. PHOSPHORUS AND, TO A MUCH LESSER DEGREE, NITROGEN. Q. NOW, WHEN DID THE INTEREST IN PHOSPHORUS FIRST DEVELOP THAT LED TO THIS PROGRAM THAT YOU DESCRIBED? I MEAN, GENERALLY, NOT JUST IN YOUR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 37 LIFE BUT--- A. OH, I THINK PROBABLY EITHER THROUGH COURSE WORK AT HARVARD OR THE STUDY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE IT BECAME CLEAR THAT PHOSPHORUS WAS A KEY MANAGEMENT NUTRIENT FOR CONTROLLING EUTROPHICATION IN LAKES. Q. OKAY. WHY DID ANYBODY CARE ABOUT EUTROPHICATION IN LAKES? A. VALUATION IN TERMS OF PUBLIC EXPERIENCE SEEMED TO RELATE FAIRLY HEAVILY TO AESTHETICS CONDITIONS THAT TIED INTO EUTROPHICATION. FLOATING ALGAL BLOOMS WERE OBJECTIONABLE AQUATIC PLANTS; CHANGES IN FISH SPECIES, DOMINANCE. ALL OF THOSE ARE RELATED TO NUTRIENTS AND EUTROPHICATION AND PEOPLE TENDED TO RESPOND TO THOSE AS MUCH AS TO ANYTHING IN EVALUATION OF WATER QUALITY. Q. WHEN DID THIS INTEREST IN EUTROPHICATION START? A. IN GENERAL IN--- Q. IN GENERAL. A. ---PUBLIC? Q. YEAH, IN THE PUBLIC. A. I CAN'T SAY FOR CERTAIN, BUT THERE WAS, CLEARLY, QUITE A BIT OF CONCERN ABOUT -- PUBLICLY AND FAIRLY WIDESPREAD ABOUT THE GREAT LAKES AND LAKE ERIE IN THE MID-'60'S. AND THERE WAS CONCERN DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 38 ABOUT LARGE LAKES IN EUROPE ABOUT THAT TIME, AS WELL. Q. AND THAT WAS A EUTROPHICATION PROBLEM? A. YES, YES. Q. AS OPPOSED TO OTHER KINDS--- A. AS FAR AS--- Q. ---OF TOXIC POLLUTANTS? A. YES, YES. Q. OKAY. AND YOU BELIEVE THAT'S RELATED, IN PART, TO THE AESTHETICS INVOLVED? A. WELL, I THINK PUBLIC RESPONSE IS IN RELATION TO AESTHETICS THAT TIE INTO EUTROPHICATION. Q. IS IT WIDELY -- IS IT A WIDELY HELD VIEW THAT EUTROPHICATION IS SOMETHING BAD? A. IT'S NOT UNIVERSALLY HELD, I BELIEVE, BUT IT'S WIDELY HELD, YES. Q. DO YOU HOLD THAT VIEW? A. IN A PERSONAL SENSE, NO. Q. WHY NOT? A. BECAUSE I HAVE EXPERIENCED DIFFERENT SITUATIONS ENJOYING DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF WATER BODIES, SOME OF WHICH ARE NOT EUTROPHIC AND SOME OF WHICH ARE. Q. I DON'T UNDERSTAND. A. WHEN I WAS IN NEW ENGLAND, I ENJOYED THE WATER DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 39 QUALITY AND THE WATER BODIES BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT EUTROPHIC. THEY WERE CLEAR, CLEAN, VERY PLEASANT WATER BODIES. WHEN I TAUGHT AT MICHIGAN STATE, WE LIVED ON A SHALLOW, MAN-MADE POND THAT WAS HIGHLY EUTROPHIC; BUT IT WAS WONDERFUL FOR LARGE-MOUTH BASS FISHING. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU BELIEVE IT'S A VALUE JUDGMENT IN TERMS OF WHETHER EUTROPHICATION IS SOMETHING TO BE DESIRED OR NOT. A. YEAH, DESIRABILITY IS A VALUE JUDGMENT. THAT'S RIGHT. Q. AND YOUR VALUE JUDGMENT ON THAT IS THAT YOU DON'T MIND EUTROPHICATION. A. MY VALUE JUDGMENT IS, IT DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. Q. SO, IN SOME WATER BODIES YOU WOULD AGREE THAT EUTROPHICATION IS A NEGATIVE AS OPPOSED TO A POSITIVE? A. CERTAINLY. Q. HOW ABOUT THE EVERGLADES? A. I DON'T HAVE A VALUE JUDGMENT THERE. Q. WHY NOT? A. I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION ON THAT SITUATION TO HAVE A VALUE JUDGMENT. Q. JUST SO I'M CLEAR, AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY, THEN, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 40 YOU DON'T HAVE AN OPINION AS TO WHETHER EUTROPHICATION OF THE EVERGLADES IS GOOD OR BAD? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. IS EUTROPHICATION OCCURRING IN THE EVERGLADES? A. I DON'T KNOW. MR. REID: OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU -- WE'LL TAKE A MINUTE AND YOU CAN EAT A MOUTHFUL? WITNESS: OKAY. (THEREUPON, A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) EXAMINATION BY MR. REID: Q. SOMETHING I WANTED TO ASK YOU TO FOLLOW UP TO THE LAST THING YOU SAID. IN YOUR VIEW, WHAT -- HOW DO YOU DESCRIBE A BODY OF WATER AS BEING EUTROPHIC? A. I DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION OTHER THAN THE SCIENTIFIC CLASSIFICATION SCHEME THAT'S APPROPRIATE. Q. OKAY. WHAT WOULD THAT BE? A. I DON'T KNOW. IT VARIES FROM LOCATION TO LOCATION. Q. HOW IS IT DEFINED? A. TERMS OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATIONS; WATER CLARITY. Q. SO -- AND NUTRIENT CONCENTRATIONS -- WOULD THAT BE IN PARTS PER BILLION, FOR INSTANCE? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 41 A. UH-HUH (YES). YES. Q. AND DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION OR IS THERE -- WELL, LET'S START BROADER. IS THERE SOME, GENERALLY, ACCEPTED LEVEL OF PHOSPHORUS PARTS PER BILLION AT WHICH SCIENTISTS WOULD SAY THAT A BODY OF WATER IS EUTROPHIC? A. NO. Q. IS THAT BECAUSE IT VARIES FROM BODY TO BODY--- A. YES. Q. ---THAT 10 PARTS PER BILLION MIGHT BE EUTROPHIC IN ONE BODY OF WATER AND 200 PARTS PER BILLION MIGHT BE IN ANOTHER? A. THAT'S A POSSIBILITY, YEAH. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE EVERGLADES WAS HISTORICALLY? A. NO. Q. NOW, YOUR RESEARCH FOR YOUR Ph.D. -- WE SORT OF GOT SIDETRACKED. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU DEVELOPED AN INTEREST IN THE SUBJECT OF EUTROPHICATION. A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. AND WHAT WAS ACTUALLY THE SUBJECT MATTER OF YOUR RESEARCH? WHAT DISSERTATION OR -- I GUESS IT'S CALLED A DISSERTATION AT THAT LEVEL? A. YES. Q. OKAY. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 42 A. DEALT WITH STATISTICAL MODELS DESCRIBING EUTROPHICATION RELATIONSHIPS. Q. DID YOU FOCUS ON ANY PARTICULAR ACTUAL BODIES OF WATER? A. I USED THE NATIONAL EUTROPHICATION SURVEY DATA. Q. SO, YOU FOCUSED ON BODIES OF WATER THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY? A. YES. Q. AND WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR DISSERTATION? I KNOW TO GET YOUR Ph.D. BUT--- A. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. Q. ---BUT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAD TO TELL ME WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO PROVE OR DISPROVE OR--- A. I WAS TRYING TO--- Q. ---FIND OUT. A. ---LEARN A SET OF METHODS AND DEVELOP GOOD STATISTICAL MODELS. Q. FOR WHAT? A. DESCRIBING THE, AS I MENTIONED, EUTROPHICATION RELATIONSHIPS. Q. SO YOU LOOKED AT -- I'M INTERESTED IN HOW YOU WENT ABOUT THIS. YOU TOOK ALL THE DATA THAT YOU FOUND. AND I ASSUME THAT DATA WOULD BE THAT CERTAIN BODIES OF WATER HAD CERTAIN PARTS PER BILLION OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 43 PHOSPHORUS, FOR INSTANCE. A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. WOULD THAT BE THE ONLY DATA YOU WERE LOOKING AT AS--- A. WE LOOKED AT A VARIETY OF DATA ON NUTRIENT INPUTS, WATER INPUT, EUTROPHICATION MEASURES IN LAKES; AND LOOKED AT RELATIONSHIPS. Q. AND WHAT DID YOU CONCLUDE? A. WASN'T A SINGLE CONCLUSION. Q. SURE. A. CONCLUDED THAT THERE WERE RELATIONSHIPS AMONG THE EUTROPHICATION VARIABLES AND THESE WERE THE RELATIONSHIPS WE FOUND. Q. OKAY. CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME OF THOSE RELATIONSHIPS? A. NO. Q. OF HOW MANY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? A. GEE, I DON'T REMEMBER. WE LOOKED--- Q. HOW MANY--- A. ---AT SEVERAL, NOT--- Q. ---HOW MANY VARIABLES WERE YOU LOOKING AT? A. I WAS LOOK -- I LOOKED AT AS MANY AS 30 OR 40 VARIABLES, AS I RECALL. Q. AND ALL THESE ARE TRACKED BY THE NATIONAL DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 44 STATISTICS THAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT -- THOSE THAT YOU WERE USING? A. YEAH, THEY WERE ALL FROM THE NATIONAL EUTROPHICATION SURVEY. Q. YOU DIDN'T GO OUT AND DO ANY TESTING YOURSELF. A. NO, I DIDN'T, NO. Q. OKAY. WELL, WHAT WAS THE ULTIMATE CONTRIBUTION TO THE FIELD THAT YOU THINK YOUR DISSERTATION MADE? A. IT PROVIDED A SET OF STATISTICAL RELATIONSHIPS DESCRIBING THESE VARIABLES AND THE ERRORS OF PREDICTION. Q. CAN YOU THINK OF ANY RELATIONSHIPS? I'M JUST -- BY WAY OF EXAMPLE, SO I HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOU WERE DOING. A. UH-HUH (YES). PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION PREDICTED AS A FUNCTION OF PHOSPHORUS LOADING, MEAN DEPTH WATER RESIDENCE TIME. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WAS YOUR CONCLUSION THERE? A. THERE WAS A RELATIONSHIP. Q. OKAY. AND HOW WOULD YOU EXPECT YOUR WORK TO BE USED BY OTHER SCIENTISTS? A. I'D EXPECT THAT THE STATISTICAL MODELS WOULD BE USED AS PREDICTIVE TOOLS. Q. NOW, HAVE YOU USED ANY -- SPECIFICALLY, ANY OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 45 THAT DATA IN THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE IN THIS CASE? A. NO. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES THAT ARE WORKING ON THIS AT DUKE WETLAND CENTER HAVE USED ANY OF YOUR WORK? A. I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH. Q. NOW, WHY IS THAT? THAT WOULD SEEM TO RELATE TO ME, SO MAYBE I'M MISSING SOMETHING. A. I'M NOT SURE ANY OF THEM ARE AWARE OF THE NATIONAL EUTROPHICATION SURVEY, SINCE IT WAS TWENTY YEARS AGO. THIS DEALT WITH LAKES AND I JUST -- I DON'T -- I HAVEN'T SHOWN IT TO THEM. I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'D BE AWARE OF THE WORK. Q. WOULD IT -- WOULD THE FACT THAT IT DEALT WITH LAKES MEAN THAT IT WOULD HAVE NO APPLICATION TO THE EVERGLADES? A. NO, HUH-UH (NO). Q. WHAT LEVEL OF APPLICATION DO YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE TO THE EVERGLADES? A. I'M REALLY NOT SURE, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THEY WOULD GO TO THAT LITERATURE TO ENHANCE THEIR WORK ON THE EVERGLADES. Q. NOW, WE'LL GET INTO IT, OBVIOUSLY, IN MORE DETAIL. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 46 YOU'RE WORKING ON A MODEL IN THIS CASE. A. OH, IN THIS CASE WITH THE--- Q. YES. A. ---EVER -- YES. Q. YEAH. AND I ASSUME THE MODEL HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH NUTRIENTS AND OTHER VARIABLES IN A -- THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE EVERGLADES IN THE PROCESS OF EUTROPHICATION. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. BUT NONE OF YOUR WORK BEFORE, DEALING WITH THE SAME SUBJECT MATTERS IN LAKES, IS PROVIDING YOU ANY BASIS FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW? A. IT'S PROVIDING ME WITH AN UNDERSTANDING THAT VARIABLES SUCH AS NUTRIENT LOADING, MEAN DEPTH AND WATER RESIDENCE TIME MIGHT BE IMPORTANT. Q. BUT IT'S NOT TELLING YOU THAT THOSE VARIABLES RELATE IN THE EVERGLADES THE SAME WAY THEY RELATED IN YOUR RESEARCH OR IN THE LAKE SURVEY? A. IT'S NOT TELLING ME THAT, NO, HUH-UH (NO). NO. Q. BUT ARE YOU TRYING TO FIND THAT OUT OR--- A. NO, I DON'T THINK WE WOULD REFERENCE THAT WORK, FOR EXAMPLE. I JUST THINK IT WOULD HAVE THAT LITTLE APPLICABILITY. Q. WHAT OTHER WORK DID YOU DO AT HARVARD THAT RELATES DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 47 TO WHAT YOU'RE NOW DOING? A. WELL, OF COURSE, AS I MENTIONED, THAT WORK -- DISSERTATION RELATES IN A VERY LIMITED DEGREE. Q. SURE. DID ANYTHING YOU DID AT HARVARD RELATE TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW, I GUESS, IS A BETTER QUESTION? A. I MEAN, YES, IN TERMS OF EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE RELATED TO EVERYTHING ELSE. BUT NO, IN TERMS OF ANY SUBSTANTIVE RELATIONSHIP. Q. UP THROUGH THE COMPLETION OF YOUR Ph.D., HAD YOU DONE ANY WORK RELATED TO THE EVERGLADES? A. NO. Q. HAD YOU EVER BEEN IN THE EVERGLADES? A. YES, HIGH SCHOOL VACATION. Q. OKAY. ON YOUR WAY TO THE BEACH, I GUESS, RIGHT? A. NO, NO. WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE, BUT, NO. Q. WHEN YOU FINISHED OR -- STRIKE THAT. BETWEEN '72 AND '77 WERE YOU EMPLOYED? A. YES. Q. AND WHAT WERE YOU DOING DURING THAT TIME? A. DURING THE SUMMER, AS I MENTIONED, I WORKED ON THAT STUDY FUNDED BY THE APPALACHIAN MOUNTAIN CLUB--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 48 A. ---AND LAKES REGION PLANNING COMMISSION. AND I CONTINUED THAT WORK WITH THE LAKES REGION PLANNING COMMISSION RIGHT THROUGH GRADUATION. Q. OKAY. ULTIMATELY, WHAT WAS THE RESULT OF THAT WORK? WAS THERE SOMETHING PUBLISHED OR--- A. THEY PUBLISHED SEVERAL AGENCY REPORTS, AND I GUESS THAT'S ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF THE NEW HAMPSHIRE WORK. Q. OKAY. I ASSUME NOTHING THAT YOU DID THERE RELATES TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW. A. NO, IT DOESN'T. HUH-UH (NO). Q. WHEN YOU FINISHED YOUR Ph.D., THEN, WHAT WAS YOUR NEXT JOB? A. I TAUGHT AT MICHIGAN STATE. Q. AND FOR WHAT YEARS? A. 1977 TO 1980. Q. WHAT WAS YOUR TITLE? A. I WAS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT. Q. AND WHAT WAS THE DEPARTMENT OF RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT? A. IT'S A DEPARTMENT IN THE COLLEGE OF NATURAL RESOURCES THAT INCLUDES WATER RESOURCES, RESOURCE ECONOMICS AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 49 Q. OKAY. WHAT COURSES OR WHAT AREAS DID YOU TEACH IN THERE? A. I TAUGHT WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT -- GEE, AND I CAN'T REMEMBER -- I THINK WATER QUALITY MODELING. Q. SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU'RE TEACHING NOW? A. YEAH, PRECURSORS, UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND WHAT WAS THE FOCUS OF THOSE COURSES AT THAT POINT IN TIME? A. SAME GENERAL COURSE TOPICS, REALLY, AS I RECALL. Q. ALL RIGHT. DID YOU DEAL IN ANY WAY WITH SUBJECTS CONCERNING EUTROPHICATION IN THOSE COURSES? A. I'M SURE I DID, YEAH. Q. HOW ABOUT THE EVERGLADES? A. I DOUBT VERY MUCH THAT I DID. Q. WHAT BODIES OF WATER -- OR WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN YOUR FOCUS AT THAT TIME IN THOSE COURSES? A. WATER BODIES, IN GENERAL. IF I HAD CASE STUDIES, THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN GREAT LAKES RELATED. Q. WHAT DO YOU CALL THE EVERGLADES, BY THE WAY, JUST SO WE KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING? I MEAN, IT'S NOT A LAKE, OBVIOUSLY. A. OH, I THINK OF IT AS A WETLAND. Q. A WETLAND AND WHAT--- A. YEAH, A WETLAND. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 50 Q. ---HOW DO YOU DEFINE "WETLAND"? A. A LAND AREA THAT IS WET MUCH OF THE YEAR AND THAT IS DOMINATED BY ROOTED AQUATIC VEGETATION AND IS SHALLOW. Q. WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER A "BOG"? A. I HAVE NO OPINION. I SHOULDN'T SAY "OPINION." I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR DEFINITION, YEAH. Q. IS THAT -- CAN YOU USE THAT WORD INTERCHANGEABLY? A. I PROBABLY WOULD. IT MAY NOT BE CORRECT. Q. HOW ABOUT "SWAMP"? A. I'D PROBABLY USE THAT WORD INTERCHANGEABLY, TOO. Q. BUT YOU CAN'T TELL ME ANY SCIENTIFIC BASIS FOR DISTINGUISHING--- A. NO. Q. ---AMONG THOSE WORDS? A. NO, HUH-UH (NO). Q. OKAY. WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER MICHIGAN STATE? A. I CAME TO DUKE. Q. AND, WHEN YOU CAME TO DUKE, WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST JOB? A. I WAS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN THE SCHOOL OF FORESTRY IN ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES. Q. OKAY. IS THAT A PRECURSOR, IN PART, AT LEAST, TO THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 51 A. YES, IT IS. Q. WAS IT DIVIDED BETWEEN FORESTRY AND THE ENVIRONMENT OR NAME CHANGE OR WHAT? A. NO. FORESTRY ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES MERGED WITH THE MARINE LAB TO FORM THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT. Q. OKAY. WHEN WAS THAT? A. 1991. Q. OKAY. IT'S BEEN THAT -- BEEN FAIRLY RECENT? A. YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN YOU CAME TO DUKE, DID YOU TEACH THE SAME COURSES THAT YOU WERE TEACHING AT MICHIGAN STATE AND THAT YOU'RE TEACHING NOW? A. LET ME THINK. JUST -- YEAH, I TAUGHT WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT INITIALLY. I THINK THAT WAS THE FIRST COURSE I TAUGHT. AND I ALSO TAUGHT REGRESSION ANALYSIS AND INTRODUCTORY STATISTICS. Q. THE STATISTICS COURSES -- WHAT SCHOOL WERE THEY TAUGHT THROUGH? A. FORESTRY AND ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES. Q. TO GRADUATE STUDENTS? A. GRADUATE AND PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS, YEAH. Q. ALL RIGHT. WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU TAUGHT SINCE YOU'VE BEEN AT DUKE THAT YOU HAVEN'T TOLD ME ABOUT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 52 ALREADY TODAY? A. LET ME THINK. I TAUGHT, FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, WATER RESOURCES MODELING, WHICH -- A SPECIAL TOPICS COURSE -- WHICH WAS A SPECIAL TOPICS COURSE. AND WHAT ELSE? THAT'S THE -- MAY BE SOMETHING ELSE LISTED THERE, BUT, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, IT--- Q. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WATER RESOURCES MODELING AND WATER QUALITY MODELING? A. WATER RESOURCES MODELING WAS A COURSE THAT TWO OUT OF THREE OF OUR WATER FACULTY TAUGHT AT ANY ONE TIME, AND WE JUST BROUGHT IN SPECIAL TOPICS AT THE TIME WE WERE INVOLVED. Q. AND WHEN WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN? A. WHEN WOULD I HAVE TAUGHT THAT? Q. WHEN YOU WOULD HAVE TAUGHT IT, YEAH. A. I DON'T REMEMBER. LATE '80'S -- MID- TO LATE '80'S. SEEMS TO ME I TAUGHT IT A COUPLE OF YEARS. Q. OKAY. NOW, WHEN YOU -- WHEN DID YOU ADD THE APPOINTMENTS IN THE OTHER SCHOOLS? A. ENGINEERING WAS ADDED PRETTY QUICKLY, WITHIN A YEAR OR TWO OF WHEN I ARRIVED. IN STATISTICS AND DECISION SCIENCES, I HAD AN APPOINT -- RESEARCH FACULTY APPOINTMENT WITH THEM FOR A COUPLE OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 53 YEARS, WHICH MIGHT HAVE BEEN LATE '80'S TO EARLY '90'S. AND THEN, THE STANDARD FACULTY APPOINTMENT BEGAN THIS JANUARY. Q. SO NOW YOU'RE AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE INSTITUTE OF STATISTICS AND DECISION SCIENCES? A. UH-HUH (YES). YES. Q. SO I CAN -- ON YOUR CV THAT I HAVE, I CAN "X" OFF RESEARCH. A. YES. Q. OKAY. IS THAT LIKE A PROMOTION OR IS IT JUST DIFFERENT FUNCTION? A. IT'S JUST A CHANGE OF TITLES. THEY ELIMINATED -- AS FAR AS I KNOW, THEY ELIMINATED THE RESEARCH FACULTY AND APPOINTED SOME OF THEM ASSISTANT AND ASSOCIATE WITHOUT THE WORD "RESEARCH." Q. WHAT IS THE REASON THAT YOU WOULD HAVE APPOINTMENTS IN OTHER SCHOOLS? IS THAT JUST, YOU EARN MORE MONEY DOING THAT OR--- A. THERE'S NO MONEY ASSOCIATED WITH IT. IT--- Q. WHY DOES IT HAPPEN? A. ---IT FACILITATES INTERACTIONS. IT'S AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT SOMEONE'S INVOLVED IN AN AREA OF STUDY. Q. NOW, WHAT IS THE -- STRIKE THAT. WHEN DID YOU -- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 54 YOU CAME AS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, I THINK YOU SAID. A. YES. Q. WHEN DID YOU GET PROMOTED TO ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR? A. BELIEVE IT WAS 1985. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WOULD BE THE NEXT STEP? A. FULL. Q. AND HAVE YOU -- HAS THAT COME UP FOR YOU YET? A. NO. Q. WHEN WILL THAT COME UP? A. IT'S NOT MY DECISION. Q. OH, THERE'S NO SORT OF ROUTINE? A. NO. Q. CAN YOU ASK ABOUT IT OR DOES SOMEONE JUST COME IN ONE DAY AND TELL YOU? A. I CAN ASK ABOUT IT, YEAH, OR SOMEONE WILL -- A DEAN OR A COMMITTEE WILL DECIDE IT'S APPROPRIATE. Q. NOW, YOU'VE BEEN AN ASSOCIATE FOR ABOUT SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS. A. YEAH. Q. IS THAT THE NORM AT DUKE OR IN YOUR PARTICULAR AREA? A. I DON'T KNOW. IT VARIES. I DON'T KNOW. Q. OKAY. NOW, TENURE IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU'RE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 55 CALLED, I ASSUME, OR IS IT? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. WELL, DO YOU HAVE TENURE? A. YES. Q. OKAY. AND WHEN DID YOU GET TENURE? A. WHEN I WAS PROMOTED FROM ASSISTANT TO ASSOCIATE. Q. OKAY. AND IS THAT THE NORMAL TIME WHEN ONE GETS TENURE, WHEN YOU BECOME AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR? THAT'S WHAT I MEANT BY THAT. A. OH, OKAY. Q. IS IT UNRELATED TO YOUR TITLE OR--- A. YEAH. Q. ---OR DOES IT COME WITH THE TITLE? A. NO, IT VARIES FROM DEPARTMENT TO DEPARTMENT AS TO WHETHER IT'LL OCCUR THEN. Q. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT EUTROPHICATION HAS BEEN PART OF THE COURSES THAT YOU'VE TAUGHT FOR THE ENTIRE TIME YOU'VE BEEN AT DUKE? A. FOR WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT AND WATER QUALITY MODELING, YES. Q. WHEN DID, SPECIFICALLY, YOU DEAL WITH THE EVERGLADES FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YOUR TEACHING? A. I DON'T RECALL. MAY HAVE BEEN LAST YEAR. Q. AND WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO START DEALING WITH THE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 56 EVERGLADES IN YOUR TEACHING? A. AS I MENTIONED TO YOU BEFORE, I NEEDED AN EXAMPLE TO HELP ILLUSTRATE THE REAL-WORLD APPLICABILITY OF METHODS, AND THAT WAS ONE THAT I CHOSE. Q. OKAY. SO THAT -- WHAT YOUR -- A MINUTE AGO THE HANDOUT THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT -- THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST TIME EVERGLADES BECAME INVOLVED IN YOUR TEACHING? A. I THINK SO, YEAH. Q. NOW, THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER -- WHEN WAS THAT CREATED AS A CENTER? A. YOU ASKED BEFORE--- Q. YEAH. A. ---I DON'T REMEMBER. I THINK THREE YEARS AGO. Q. OKAY. WERE YOU PART OF THE CENTER FROM ITS INCEPTION? A. YES. Q. HOW DOES THAT CHANGE WHAT YOU DO? A. NOT AT ALL. Q. SO, EVERYTHING IS THE SAME? A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. DO YOU -- DOES IT CHANGE YOUR COMPENSATION? A. NO. Q. AND YOU SAID EARLIER THAT YOUR COMPENSATION COMES DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 57 ENTIRELY THROUGH DUKE? A. YES. Q. OKAY. A. WELL, I SAID THAT MY COMPENSATION COMES ENTIRELY THROUGH THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT. Q. OKAY. IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM THROUGH DUKE? A. WELL, IT DOESN'T COME THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF CIVIL ENGINEERING. Q. OKAY. NOW, IN ADDITION TO YOUR SALARY THAT YOU GET FOR -- THROUGH THE SCHOOL FOR BEING A PROFESSOR, DO YOU GET PAID FOR BEING A CONSULTANT? A. YES. Q. IS THAT DONE TOTALLY INDEPENDENT OF THE SCHOOL? A. YES. Q. OKAY. DOES DUKE HAVE ANY SORT OF GUIDELINES WITH REGARD TO ITS PROFESSORS AND CONSULTING WORK? A. DURING THE ACADEMIC YEAR, YOU'RE PERMITTED ONE DAY A MONTH. Q. ONE DAY A MONTH? A. ONE DAY A WEEK -- I'M SORRY -- ONE DAY A WEEK, YEAH, YEAH. Q. OKAY. DOES ANYBODY ACTUALLY MONITOR THAT? A. THEY MIGHT IN SOME DEPARTMENTS. Q. DO THEY IN YOUR DEPARTMENT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 58 A. NO. Q. OKAY. WHEN DID YOU FIRST BEGIN DOING OUTSIDE CONSULTING WORK IN YOUR CAREER? A. I DON'T RECALL. IT MAY HAVE BEEN -- OH, I WAS CONSULTING A LITTLE BIT WHEN I WAS A GRADUATE STUDENT. THAT'S RIGHT. Q. ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU CONSULT ANY AT MICHIGAN STATE? A. I DON'T REMEMBER DOING ANY THERE. Q. OKAY. SO, WHEN YOU GOT TO DUKE, WHEN DID YOU FIRST BEGIN DOING CONSULTING WORK? A. I DON'T REMEMBER. IT MAY HAVE BEEN TEN YEARS AGO. Q. AND WHAT WAS THE -- WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST -- HOW DID YOU GET INTO THAT AREA? A. AS I HAVE SAID, I JUST DON'T REMEMBER HOW IT BEGAN AND -- I JUST DON'T REMEMBER. Q. OKAY. AS OF NOW, HOW MUCH OF YOUR TIME IS CONSULTING? HOW MUCH CONSULTING DO YOU DO? I KNOW, ONE DAY A WEEK. A. YEAH, ONE DAY A WEEK. Q. RIGHT. YOU'RE UNDER OATH, RIGHT? A. YEAH. MR. FITZGERALD: YOU COULD BE IN THE AWKWARD POSITION, LIKE, IF YOUR DEPARTMENT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 59 HEAD WAS HERE OR--- MR. REID: YEAH, RIGHT. JUST THE LAWYERS HERE, YOU'RE SAFE. MR. FITZGERALD: ---OF HIM INVOKING YOUR RIGHTS SO YOUR ATTORNEY DOESN'T HEAR THIS. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? A. GOSH, I HAVEN'T DONE ANY -- WELL, I SHOULD TAKE THAT BACK. I'VE DONE -- IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS I'VE MAYBE DONE A WEEK OF -- A DAY OF CONSULTING. IT WILL VARY DURING THE TIME OF YEAR. Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY. NOW, WE KNOW YOU'RE DOING CONSULTING FOR THE COOPERATIVE. A. NO, I'M NOT. Q. OH, YOU'RE NOT? A. NO. Q. OKAY. ARE YOU DOING CONSULTING FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE? A. NO, I'M NOT. Q. ARE YOU DOING CONSULTING FOR THE FRUIT AND VEGETABLE GROWERS? A. NO, I'M NOT. Q. OKAY. ARE YOU DOING CONSULTING FOR ANY PRIVATE COMPANIES? A. I DON'T -- NO, HUH-UH (NO). DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 60 Q. WHO'S PAYING YOU TO BE HERE TODAY? A. NO ONE. Q. OKAY. MR. McCAUGHAN: COULD WE GO OFF THE RECORD FOR A SECOND? MR. REID: SURE. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) Q. (BY MR. REID) HOW ABOUT FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION DISTRICT IN THE EVERGLADES; ARE YOU CONSULTING FOR THEM NOW? A. NOW, WHICH GROUP IS THAT? Q. WELL, IT'S CALLED THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION--- A. I DON'T KNOW WHO THAT--- Q. ---DISTRICT. A. WHO? MR. FITZGERALD: EVERGLADES AGRICULTURAL AREA, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION DISTRICT. MR. REID: OKAY. YEAH. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE EXACT NAME WAS. A. WHO'S SUPPORTING THAT--- Q. (BY MR. REID) THE SUGAR INDUSTRY? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 61 A. NO, I'M NOT. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU CONSULTING FOR ANYBODY WITH REGARD TO ANY OF THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING IN THE -- RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES? A. YES. Q. ALL RIGHT. FOR WHOM? A. SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. Q. OKAY. AND WHEN DID YOU START THAT WORK? A. ABOUT A YEAR AGO. Q. OKAY. WHO CALLED YOU AND ASKED YOU TO CONSULT FOR THE DISTRICT? A. GARTH REDFIELD. Q. AND WHAT WAS YOUR ASSIGNMENT? A. I'M CO-CHAIRING THE MONITORING COMMITTEE -- THE SUBCOMMITTEE WITH BILL WALKER. Q. AND THAT'S A SUBCOMMITTEE TO WHAT? A. I GET MY ACRONYMS CONFUSED. Q. TOC? A. YEAH. Q. SAGE? A. TOC, YEAH. Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU DONE ANY WORK FOR SAGE? A. NO. Q. OR DO YOU KNOW WHAT SAGE IS? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 62 A. I'D SAY I'M -- I DON'T KNOW THE -- I DON'T HAVE A CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN THOSE TWO. Q. OKAY. AND DO YOU HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE DISTRICT FOR YOUR WORK AS CO-CHAIR OF THE MONITORING SUBCOMMITTEE? A. AS OF THIS MOMENT, NO, I DON'T. Q. DID YOU HAVE ONE? A. YES. Q. OKAY. AND HOW WAS YOUR COMPENSATION BASED ON THAT? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. HOW WAS IT SET? WAS IT A LUMP SUM, AN HOURLY RATE--- A. YEAH, THEY SET A CEILING. Q. OH, SO IT WAS A LUMP SUM FOR THE WORK THAT YOU WERE ASKED TO DO? A. WELL, THEY -- IT WAS A -- MAY HAVE BEEN A PURCHASE ORDER, AND I BILLED AGAINST IT. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WAS THE TOTAL? A. BOY, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER. I THINK IT WAS ROUGHLY NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($9,000.00). Q. AND HAVE YOU EXHAUSTED THOSE SUMS? A. YES. Q. SO, YOU'RE WAITING FOR A RENEWAL OR YOU'RE NOT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 63 GOING TO BE DOING ANY MORE WORK? A. I'M WAITING FOR A RENEWAL. Q. DO YOU EXPECT ONE TO COME? A. GARTH TOLD ME ONE WAS COMING. Q. AND DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THAT'S GOING TO BE? A. NO. Q. YOU MAY HAVE SAID. WHEN DID YOU BEGIN THAT CONTRACT? A. ABOUT A YEAR AGO. Q. AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY, THEN, YOU HAVE NO OTHER CONSULTANT'S JOBS--- A. IN FLORIDA, THAT'S CORRECT--- Q. ---CONNECTED WITH THE EVERGLADES? A. ---CORRECT. Q. OKAY. ASIDE FROM THE ONE WITH THE DISTRICT, HAVE YOU HAD ANY CONSULTING JOBS RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES, EVER? A. YES. Q. OKAY. AND LET'S GO BACK IN TIME, YOU KNOW, REVERSE CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER. WHAT'S THE MOST RECENT ONE THAT YOU'VE HAD? A. LET ME THINK. I GUESS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MAYBE A YEAR AND A HALF AGO THROUGH PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 64 Q. WERE YOU HIRED BY PEEPLES, EARL? A. YES. Q. AND FOR WHAT CLIENT OF PEEPLES, EARL WERE YOU HIRED TO PERFORM SERVICE? A. I THINK THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. Q. WHO CALLED YOU FROM PEEPLES, EARL? A. GEE, I DON'T REMEMBER -- IT MAY HAVE BEEN RICK BURGESS. Q. NOW, YOU DIDN'T BRING ANY DOCUMENTS WITH YOU TODAY, DID YOU? A. NO. Q. OKAY. AND WOULD YOU HAVE RECORDS THAT WOULD REFLECT WHEN EXACTLY YOU HAD THIS CALL WITH RICK BURGESS? A. WHEN I HAD THE CALL? Q. YEAH. A. I BET I DON'T. Q. LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR CONSULTING WORK. DO YOU HAVE A SEPARATE CORPORATION SET UP TO DO THAT? A. NO. HUH-UH (NO). Q. SO, YOU'RE JUST PAID -- YOU SEND OUT BILLS AND YOU GET PAYMENTS. A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 65 Q. DO YOU CHARGE AN HOURLY RATE FOR THIS KIND OF WORK? A. EXCUSE ME. YES, I DO. Q. AND WHAT IS YOUR HOURLY RATE? A. IT VARIES. Q. GIVE ME THE RANGE. A. SEVENTY ($70.00) TO ONE HUNDRED ($100.00) AN HOUR. Q. WHAT MAKES A DISTINCTION OR WHAT MAKES YOU DECIDE WHICH TO CHARGE? A. SOMETIMES IT'S CONSTRAINED BY THE AGENCY ORGANIZATION. Q. OKAY. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE CONSULTING WORK THAT YOU DO, DO YOU KEEP RECORDS OR FILES SEPARATE FROM THE ONES YOU KEEP AT THE UNIVERSITY CONCERNING YOUR WORK AT DUKE? A. YES. Q. AND WHERE DO YOU KEEP THOSE FILES? A. AT HOME. Q. AND DO YOU HAVE A FILE THAT WOULD BE IDENTIFIED AS RELATING TO THIS ENGAGEMENT BY PEEPLES, EARL? A. I HAVE A STACK OF MATERIAL, YEAH -- FILES AND THAT. Q. OKAY. AND WOULD THAT INCLUDE NOT ONLY, WHAT WE'LL CALL, SUBSTANTIVE MATERIAL BUT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 66 YOUR ADMINISTRATIVE MATERIAL FROM YOUR CONSULTING WORK? A. YES. Q. AND WOULD IT HAVE BILLS, FOR INSTANCE, THAT YOU SENT FOR YOUR WORK? A. PROBABLY DOES, YEAH. Q. AND WOULD IT HAVE LETTERS BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN YOU AND COUNSEL? A. YEAH. Q. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF THAT IN A LITTLE BIT, BUT I WANT TO WORK BACK TO GET ALL YOUR CONSULTANCIES BEFORE RICK BURGESS CALLED YOU. WHAT WAS THE ONE IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING THAT? A. NOW, YOU'RE REFERRING TO EVERGLADES IN FLORIDA? Q. WELL, NO, I MEAN ANY CONSULTING JOBS. A. ANY CONSULTING JOBS--- Q. YEAH. A. ---ANYWHERE? Q. RIGHT. A. OH, I CAN'T RECALL ALL THE CONSULTING ACTIVITIES I'VE HAD. AND I HAVE -- NO, I MEAN, I JUST COULDN'T DO THAT. Q. ALL RIGHT. WELL, AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY, YOU HAVE NO CONTRACTS, EXCEPT THE ONE WITH THE DISTRICT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 67 A. WELL, YOU'VE ASKED ME JUST ABOUT FLORIDA, AND THAT'S WHAT I RESPONDED TO. Q. OKAY. WELL, I MEANT TO BE BROADER IN THE BEGINNING. A. OKAY. Q. SO MAYBE WE GOT OFF ON THE WRONG TRACK. A. OKAY. YEAH. Q. TODAY, AS YOU SIT HERE, YOU DO HAVE SOME CONSULTING JOBS? A. YES. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT DO THEY RELATE TO? A. THE EVERGLADES, THE MONITORING SUBCOMMITTEE THAT I MENTIONED--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---A PROJECT WITH THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT ON LAKE OKEECHOBEE. Q. ALL RIGHT. WHEN DID YOU GET THAT JOB? A. ABOUT A YEAR AGO. Q. AND WHO HIRED YOU FOR THAT? A. TONY FEDERICO. Q. AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE? A. SETTING UP A DECISION ANALYTIC FRAMEWORK FOR MANAGEMENT OF LAKE OKEECHOBEE. Q. WHAT SPECIFIC PROBLEM ARE YOU DEALING WITH WITH DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 68 LAKE OKEECHOBEE? A. EUTROPHICATION OF LAKE OKEECHOBEE. Q. AND WHAT WAS THE AMOUNT OF THAT CONTRACT? A. OH, BOY. FIFTEEN THOUSAND ($15,000.00)? Q. IS THAT STILL GOING ON? A. YES. Q. HAVE YOU PREPARED ANY WORK PRODUCT YET THAT YOU'D SUBMIT TO THE DISTRICT? A. A DRAFT MANUSCRIPT. Q. WHAT'S IT CALLED? A. I DON'T REMEMBER THE TITLE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING ABOUT DECISION ANALYSIS IN LAKE OKEECHOBEE. Q. ALL RIGHT. LET'S JUST FOCUS ON FLORIDA--- A. OKAY. Q. ---FOR THE NEXT FEW QUESTIONS, AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO YOUR GENERAL WORK. A. OKAY. Q. WORKING BACK, WHAT IS THE NEXT CONSULTING JOB THAT YOU'VE HAD RELATING -- RELATED TO FLORIDA? A. TO FLORIDA? WITH LANDERS & PARSONS. Q. AND WHAT IS THAT? A. LOOKING AT EUTROPHICATION MODELING IN LAKE OKEECHOBEE. Q. WHO IS LANDERS & PARSONS? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 69 A. A LAW FIRM IN TALLAHASSEE. Q. AND ON WHOSE BEHALF DID THEY CONTACT YOU? A. THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. Q. AND YOU'RE BEING PAID BY THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE DIRECTLY? A. I WAS PAID--- Q. OKAY. A. ---YEAH. Q. THAT'S FINISHED? A. THAT'S FINISHED. Q. OKAY. AND HOW MUCH WAS THAT CONTRACT? A. THAT MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT EIGHTY THOUSAND ($80,000.00). Q. AND WHAT WAS THE ASSIGNMENT THERE? A. WAS TO EVALUATE EUTROPHICATION MODELS IN DESCRIBING OR SIMULATING EUTROPHICATION IN LAKE OKEECHOBEE. Q. WHEN YOU SAY "EVALUATE," YOU MEAN YOU WERE LOOKING AT OTHER PEOPLE'S MODELS? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. WHOSE MODELS WERE YOU LOOKING AT? A. WE LOOKED AT MODELS THAT HAD BEEN PROPOSED BY SCIENTISTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA AND THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 70 Q. OKAY. WAS THIS PART OF ANY PARTICULAR PROCEEDING, LEGAL OR ADMINISTRATIVE OR LEGISLATIVE WORK YOU WERE DOING? A. IT RELATED TO THE USE OF A MODEL TO SET PHOSPHORUS LIMITS ON THE LAKE. Q. SOMEBODY WAS TRYING TO SET PHOSPHORUS LIMITS ON THE LAKE AND HAD COME UP WITH A MODEL? A. THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, AS FAR AS I KNOW, HAD SET PHOSPHORUS LIMITS ON THE LAKE ON THE BASIS OF USE OF A MODEL. Q. AND YOUR JOB WAS TO, IN EFFECT, CRITICIZE OR EVALUATE THAT MODEL? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND WHAT WAS YOUR ULTIMATE CONCLUSION? WITNESS: I GUESS I NEED TO -- SOME ADVICE HERE. VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING I--- MR. RUSSELL: WELL, TO THE EXTENT THAT IT'S -- I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU'RE GETTING INTO AREAS THAT YOU DIDN'T TESTIFY AS AN EXPERT OR WEREN'T HIRED AS A TESTIFYING EXPERT, THEN, IT WOULD BE PRIVILEGED. I DON'T KNOW--- WITNESS: WELL, EVERYTHING I DID FOR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 71 THEM HAD "PRIVILEGED" AND "CONFIDENTIAL" ON THE TOP. MR. RUSSELL: WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT -- EVERYTHING -- EVERY PAPER THAT COMES OUT HAS -- LET'S TAKE A BREAK FOR A MINUTE. MR. REID: OKAY. (THEREUPON, A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) MR. REID: OKAY, BACK ON THE RECORD. WHAT'S THE ANSWER? MR. RUSSELL: I'M GOING TO INSTRUCT THE WITNESS NOT TO ANSWER ANY OF THE QUESTIONS INVOLVING SPECIFICS OF THE -- OTHER THAN THE GENERAL INFORMATION HE'S ALREADY GIVEN, BECAUSE IT'S -- HE WAS HIRED AS A NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT BY OUR CLIENT AND IT GETS INTO AN AREA OF WORK PRODUCT. MR. REID: OKAY. CERTIFY THE QUESTION, PLEASE. MR. RUSSELL: I MIGHT SAY, ALSO, THAT NONE OF THE PRODUCTS OF THAT FORMATIVE -- OR SUPPORT THE BASIS FOR YOUR OPINIONS IN THIS PROCEEDING, DO THEY? WITNESS: NO, NO. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 72 MR. RUSSELL: OKAY. WITNESS: NOT AT ALL. Q. (BY MR. REID) WHEN WAS THE LANDERS & PARSONS--- MR. REID: WAIT A MINUTE. YOU SAID HIRED BY YOUR FIRM. MS. STINSON: CLIENT, HE SAID. MR. REID: CLIENT -- OH, I'M SORRY. OKAY. MR. RUSSELL: CLIENT. Q. ---WHEN WAS THE LANDERS & PARSONS WORK DONE FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE? A. I DON'T RECALL, BUT I THINK IT BEGAN ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO AND WAS COMPLETED A YEAR AND A HALF TO TWO YEARS AGO, MAYBE A YEAR AND A HALF. Q. DID THAT DIFFER FROM THE WORK THAT YOU DID FOR THE DISTRICT CONCERNING LAKE OKEECHOBEE? A. YES. Q. HOW WAS IT DIFFERENT? WITHOUT TELLING ME WHAT IT WAS, JUST--- A. IT INVOLVED EVALUATING MODELS THAT HAD BEEN USED AND--- Q. THAT'S THE WORK FOR LANDERS? A. YES. THE WORK FOR THE DISTRICT INVOLVES USE OF DECISION ANALYSIS TO GUIDE THEIR SCIENTIFIC WORK DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 73 IN SUPPORT OF DECISION MAKING. Q. OKAY. DID ANY OF THE WORK -- ANY OF THE LEARNING THAT YOU ACCOMPLISHED IN THE WORK FOR LANDERS & PARSONS ASSIST YOU IN YOUR WORK YOU DID FOR THE DISTRICT? A. IT HASN'T. NO, I ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WOULD. IT HASN'T. Q. OKAY. KEEP GOING. WHAT OTHER CONSULTING JOBS HAVE YOU HAD RELATING TO FLORIDA OR THE EVERGLADES? MR. FITZGERALD: WHILE THE DOCTOR'S THINKING, I WOULD JOIN IN THE EXCEPTION ON THE DIRECTION NOT TO ANSWER ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS. A. I WORKED FOR CH2M-HILL. Q. (BY MR. REID) SAY THAT AGAIN. A. CH2M-HILL, H-I-L-L. Q. WHAT IS THAT? A. THAT'S A ENGINEERING CONSULTING FIRM THAT HAS BRANCHES NATIONWIDE. I ASSISTED THEM ON LAKE WORK IN ST. PETERSBURG. Q. WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM THERE? A. WATER QUALITY IN AN URBAN LAKE. Q. DID IT DEAL WITH EUTROPHICATION OR OTHER TYPES OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 74 POLLUTION? A. IT DEALT WITH EUTROPHICATION. IT MAY HAVE DEALT WITH OTHER PROBLEMS ALSO. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WAS THE ULTIMATE RESULT OF THAT WORK? DID YOU HAVE A PAPER? DID YOU TESTIFY--- A. I CONTRIBUTED SOME MODELING AND STATISTICAL GUIDANCE. Q. OKAY. WHAT ELSE? A. I THINK THAT'S ALL I'VE DONE IN FLORIDA. Q. OKAY. JUST SO I'M CLEAR, THEN, YOU HAVE NOT DONE ANY WORK FOR HOPPING, BOYD LAW FIRM; WILLIAM GREEN? A. I HAVE NOT BEEN -- I DON'T RECALL BEING EVER PAID AS A CONSULTANT. Q. AND HAVE YOU DONE ANY WORK AS PART OF THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER WHERE YOU WEREN'T HIRED AS AN INDEPENDENT CONSULTANT, BUT YOU WERE STILL DOING WORK RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES ISSUES? A. I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY SALARY PAYMENT THROUGH THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER. Q. I UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT WASN'T MY QUESTION. A. YEAH. Q. THE QUESTION WAS, HAVE YOU DONE ANY WORK IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER RELATING DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 75 TO THE EVERGLADES? A. YES. Q. WHEN DID YOU FIRST DO THAT WORK? A. LAST SUMMER. Q. LAST SUMMER? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND WHO APPROACHED YOU ABOUT DOING THAT WORK? A. THAT WORK DEVELOPED BECAUSE MY Ph.D. STUDENT, SONG QIAN, IS SUPPORTED THROUGH THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER. AND I'M WORKING WITH MY STUDENT, SO THAT'S HOW THE WORK BEGAN. Q. BY SUPPORTED THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER, DO YOU MEAN HE HAS A FELLOWSHIP OR SOMETHING SUCH AS THAT? A. HE RECEIVES FUNDS, HIS FINANCIAL AID, FROM THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT PROJECT WAS HE WORKING ON? A. HE'S LOOKING AT -- HIS DISSERTATION IS GOING TO INVOLVE STATISTICAL AND MODELING METHODS OF WETLAND TRAPPING OF NUTRIENTS. Q. HOW DID HE COME TO SELECT THIS TOPIC? A. HE WAS INTERESTED IN DISSERTATION WORK ON STATISTICAL METHODS, AND HE'S PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN WETLANDS, SO IT WAS A NATURAL. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 76 Q. DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIS SELECTING THIS TOPIC? A. I DON'T THINK I HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIS GOING TO THE WETLAND CENTER AND GETTING THIS OPPORTUNITY. Q. I'M SORRY. A. I DON'T THINK I HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIS DEVELOPING THIS OPPORTUNITY THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. NOW, YOU SAID HE'S YOUR GRADUATE STUDENT. A. YES, HE IS. Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? A. MEANS HE CAME TO DUKE TO WORK WITH ME AS A STUDENT ON HIS Ph.D. Q. AND YOU'RE HIS ADVISOR? A. YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR ROLE -- STRIKE THAT. FIRST OF ALL, WHAT HAS HE DONE, AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, TO DATE ON HIS DISSERTATION? A. HE IS PRIMARILY AT THE STAGE OF COURSE WORK IN HIS GRADUATE STUDIES. HE WILL DEVELOP A PROPOSAL ON HIS DISSERTATION RESEARCH OVER THE NEXT THREE OR FOUR MONTHS. RIGHT NOW, HE'S JUST EXPLORING WHAT THAT PROPOSAL WOULD ENTAIL. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 77 Q. OKAY. SO, HE'S NOT MADE A PROPOSAL YET. A. NO, NOT A FORMAL PROPOSAL THAT HIS RESEARCH COMMITTEE WILL EXAMINE. Q. SO, THIS TOPIC THAT YOU GAVE ME IS A WORKING TOPIC, SO-TO-SPEAK? A. YES, YEAH. Q. AND HE'S DONE NOTHING TOWARD--- A. NO, I DIDN'T SAY THAT. HE HASN'T -- WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER WAS CORRECT. HE HASN'T DEVELOPED A FORMAL PROPOSAL. HE'S IN THE MIDST OF EXPLORING THAT. Q. WELL, MY QUESTION WAS GOING TO BE THAT HE'S DONE NONE OF THE ACTUAL RESEARCH OR WORK CONCERNING THIS TOPIC AT THIS POINT. A. IN THE EXPLORATION PROCESS, HE'S LOOKED AT THINGS, BUT NOTHING THAT WILL BE THE--- Q. SO, WHAT HAS YOUR ROLE BEEN SINCE LAST SUMMER WHEN HE FIRST CAME TO YOU AND MENTIONED THAT HE WAS THINKING ABOUT DOING THIS? A. ENCOURAGING HIM TO PURSUE IT. Q. ANYTHING ELSE? A. I'VE LOOKED AT SOME OF HIS STATISTICAL ANALYSIS. I'VE PROVIDED A LOT OF GUIDANCE ON THE STATISTICAL METHODS HE MIGHT USE. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 78 Q. HAVE YOU DONE ANYTHING INDEPENDENT OF LOOKING AT WHAT HE'S DONE? A. NO. Q. NOW, ASIDE FROM THAT, WHAT OTHER -- OR HAVE YOU DONE ANY OTHER WORK RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES AS PART OF THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER? A. NO. Q. AND I MEAN EVER. A. YES, THAT'S CORRECT, NEVER. Q. DOES DUKE HAVE A POLICY, WHEN THE WETLAND CENTER DOES WORK FOR CONSULTANTS, THAT THE WORK HAS TO BE IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN? A. I DON'T KNOW. WITNESS: YOU PROBABLY CAN ANSWER DUKE'S POLICY BETTER THAN I CAN. MR. REID: OKAY. HE CAN'T ANSWER. HE'S NOT ALLOWED. WITNESS: HE'S NOT ALLOWED. MR. FITZGERALD: YOU COULD JUST SWEAR THE ATTORNEY AND GET THIS -- IT'S A MINOR POINT, RIGHT? WITNESS: NO, I DON'T KNOW. MR. FITZGERALD: WE'D EVEN ACCEPT A PROFFER. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 79 Q. (BY MR. REID) WHAT ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE HIRED AS A PRIVATE CONSULTANT, ARE THERE ANY GUIDELINES IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU CAN DO? A. WHAT I CAN DO? Q. YEAH. A. THERE ARE GUIDELINES CONCERNING CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND -- NO. Q. OKAY. BUT ARE THERE ANY GUIDELINES CONCERNING CONFIDENTIALITY? A. CONFIDENTIALITY, MEANING WHAT I DO AS A CONSULTANT--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---THAT SHOULD NOT BE PUBLIC? Q. RIGHT. A. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THERE AREN'T. Q. WHEN YOU WORK FOR SOMEONE AS A PRIVATE CONSULTANT AND YOU SEND IN WORK PRODUCT, DOES IT SAY "DUKE UNIVERSITY" ON THE WORK PRODUCT? A. NO. Q. DOES IT SAY "DUKE WETLAND CENTER" ON THE WORK PRODUCT? A. NO. Q. OKAY. NOW, DO YOU APPLY FOR GRANTS FROM TIME TO TIME? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 80 A. YES. Q. HAVE YOU EVER APPLIED FOR ANY GRANT RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES? A. NO. Q. HAVE YOU BEEN PART OF A GROUP OR HAD ANY CONTACT AT ALL THROUGH REVIEW OR OTHERWISE OF A GRANT THAT SOMEONE ELSE WAS MAKING RELATING TO ISSUES CONCERNING THE EVERGLADES? A. A GRANT PROPOSAL? Q. YES. A. NO. Q. IS THERE SOMETHING WITH THE -- DID I MISSTATE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW? THE WAY YOU ANSWERED THE QUESTION MADE ME THINK THAT, IF I SAID IT A DIFFERENT WAY, THERE WOULD BE -- THE ANSWER WOULD BE YES. A. NO, I JUST WANTED TO GET CLEAR WHAT YOU WERE ASKING. Q. I'VE GOT A TWO-PAGE VERSION OF YOUR RESUME. A. YES. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) Q. IT HAS SELECTED PRESENTATIONS AND SELECTED PUBLICATIONS AND CONSULTING ACTIVITY. CAN YOU LOOK AT IT AND TELL ME, PLEASE, ANY THAT YOU DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 81 BELIEVE RELATE TO THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE? MAYBE, IF YOU COULD, JUST PUT AN "X" NEXT TO ANY THAT--- A. THAT RELATE--- Q. TO THE TOPICS THAT YOU'VE DEALT WITH CONCERNING THE EVERGLADES. A. OKAY. LET ME JUST BE CLEAR--- Q. SURE. A. ---YOU MENTIONED THE TOPICS I'VE DEALT WITH CONCERNING THE EVERGLADES--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---OR THIS CASE. AND I THINK OF THOSE NECESSARILY AS--- Q. WELL, BOTH. SO, IF THERE'S -- IF ONE ARTICLE APPLIES TO ONE AND NOT TO THE OTHER, JUST TELL ME THAT. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I DON'T SEE ANY OF THEM RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES. Q. ARE THERE OTHER PUBLICATIONS OR SPEECHES THAT WOULD RELATE TO THE EVERGLADES--- A. NO. Q. ---THAT AREN'T ON HERE? A. NO. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 82 Q. SO, IT'S SAFE TO SAY YOU'VE NEVER SPOKEN OR WRITTEN ON ANY SUBJECT RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES. A. IN ANY FORMAL SENSE, NO. Q. JUST SO I'M CLEAR, A MINUTE AGO WHEN I WAS ASKING YOU ABOUT GRANTS--- A. YES. Q. ---IF I USED THE TERMS EITHER "CONTRACT PROPOSALS" OR "RFP'S," WOULD YOUR ANSWER BE DIFFERENT? A. GIVE THE QUESTION AGAIN. Q. YEAH. THE QUESTION HAD TO DO WITH WHETHER YOU HAD EVER MADE ANY GRANT APPLICATIONS YOURSELF RELATING TO THE SUBJECTS CONCERNING THE EVERGLADES OR YOUR WORK IN THIS CASE--- A. OR IF I'D EVER--- Q. ---OR IF YOU'D EVER REVIEWED ANYBODY ELSE'S. AND NOW, I WANT TO KNOW, IF I CALLED THEM "CONTRACT PROPOSALS" OR "RFP'S," WOULD YOUR ANSWER BE DIFFERENT? A. IT WOULD BE THE SAME. Q. YOU HAVE NOT LOOKED AT ANY GRANTS, CONTRACT PROPOSALS OR RFP'S OF ANYBODY ELSE RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES. A. THE ONLY THING THAT I HAVE LOOKED AT WITH REGARD TO THE EVERGLADES WAS THE GENERAL RESEARCH PLAN DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 83 PROPOSED BY THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT THAT WENT TO BILL WALKER AND TO ME. Q. OKAY. AND THAT WAS JUST PART OF YOUR WORK WITH TOC? A. WITH THE TOC. Q. BEFORE YOU CAME HERE TODAY, DID YOU TALK TO ANYBODY ABOUT THIS DEPOSITION? A. I TALKED TO RICHARD AND TO DONNA. Q. OKAY. WHEN DID YOU TALK TO THEM? A. I TALKED TO DONNA YESTERDAY; RICHARD THIS MORNING, AND DONNA THIS MORNING. I TALKED TO RICK BURGESS ON THE PHONE. Q. WHEN DID YOU TALK TO RICK BURGESS? A. LAST NIGHT. Q. OKAY. LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR MEETING WITH DONNA. HOW LONG WAS THAT MEETING? A. A LITTLE LESS THAN TWO HOURS. Q. OKAY. AND WHERE WAS THE MEETING? A. THAT WAS AT THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER. Q. AND WHAT WAS THE TOPIC OF THE MEETING? MS. STINSON: DO YOU WANT JUST A GENERAL SUBJECT. I'M GOING TO OBJECT--- MR. REID: WELL, I'M SORRY. MS. STINSON: ---IF HE GETS INTO DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 84 COMMUNICATIONS WITH COUNSEL. MR. REID: ON WHAT BASIS? HE'S NOT YOUR CLIENT, IS HE? MS. STINSON: HE IS OUR WITNESS. NO, HE'S NOT OUR CLIENT. MR. REID: I UNDERSTAND. HE'S YOUR DESIGNATED EXPERT IN THIS -- A DESIGNATED EXPERT IN THIS CASE, ISN'T HE? MS. STINSON: THAT'S CORRECT. MR. REID: OKAY. A. I HAD NEVER GIVEN A DEPOSITION, AND SHE WAS GIVING ME ADVICE AS TO WHAT I MIGHT EXPECT. Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY. DID YOU TALK ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE OF YOUR OPINIONS OR YOUR WORK CONCERNING THIS CASE? A. I TOLD HER WHERE SONG WAS IN HIS WORK, JUST AS I HAD MENTIONED TO YOU, AND WHERE WE HOPED IT WOULD GO, JUST AS I HAD MENTIONED TO YOU. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU DIDN'T TALK ABOUT ANY WORK EXCEPT THIS PROPOSED DISSERTATION OF SONG? A. LET ME THINK. WE TALKED BRIEFLY ABOUT SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT -- AS I RECALL, DONNA ASKED ME WHAT THIS WAS OR WHAT THAT WAS. Q. OKAY. WHAT DOCUMENTS DID YOU LOOK AT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 85 A. THE STACK THAT -- OF DOCUMENTS THAT WERE PRODUCED. Q. OKAY. WHAT SPECIFIC DOCUMENTS DID SHE ASK YOU ABOUT, THE WHOLE STACK? A. WELL, THERE WERE A FEW THAT SHE WASN'T CLEAR WHAT THEY WERE. AND ONE OF THEM WAS, AS I RECALL, WAS A SET OF FIGURES, WHAT WE DECIDED WAS FROM SOMETHING BILL WALKER HAD DONE. Q. WHAT ELSE? A. A REPORT THAT SONG HAD DONE FOR A CLASS THAT CURT RICHARDSON HAD TAKEN AND WRITTEN FURTHER ON THE HEAD "NO AUTHOR," AND WE IDENTIFIED THE AUTHOR. Q. ANYTHING ELSE YOU REMEMBER? A. WE TALKED ABOUT--- MS. STINSON: EXCUSE ME. LET ME -- I'M GOING TO OBJECT TO THE BREADTH OF THE QUESTION AND INSTRUCT THE WITNESS NOT TO ANSWER REGARDING ANY COMMUNICATIONS FROM ME, COUNSEL, REGARDING ANYTHING WE TALKED ABOUT IN CONNECTION WITH HIS -- HIS TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE. MR. REID: WELL, I DON'T WANT TO GET IN AN ARGUMENT ABOUT IT, BUT LET ME JUST SAY, FOR THE RECORD, TO PERHAPS SAVE EVERYBODY A LOT OF TROUBLE OR EXPENSE DOWN THE ROAD, MY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 86 UNDERSTANDING OF LAW IN FLORIDA, IS THAT ONCE AN EXPERT IS DESIGNATED AS A WITNESS TO TESTIFY AT TRIAL, THERE IS NO WORK PRODUCT PROTECTION REGARDING THE SUBJECT MATTER OF HIS TESTIMONY. MS. STINSON: NO, I--- MR. REID: NOW, DO YOU KNOW OF SOME LAW THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM THAT? MS. STINSON: NO. AND I'M NOT OBJECTING TO HIM TALKING ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER OF HIS TESTIMONY. WHAT I AM OBJECTING TO AND INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER ABOUT IS TRIAL STRATEGY, COMMENTS FROM COUNSEL REGARDING TRIAL STRATEGY, AND ANY DISCUSSIONS OF THOSE TYPES OF ISSUES, IF THERE WERE ANY. AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM COUNSEL CLEARLY ARE PROTECTED AND ARE NOT DISCOVERABLE. WITH REGARD TO WHAT THE SUBJECT MATTER OF HIS TESTIMONY IS, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE, ALL OF THAT IS TOTALLY DISCOVERABLE. MR. REID: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) WELL, I'M OBVIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT -- YOUR CONVERSATIONS CONCERNING YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY AND THE SUBJECT MATTER OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 87 YOUR TESTIMONY RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES AND SO FORTH. A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. SO, WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING, YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION, I GUESS. A. WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT A REPORT THAT BILL WALKER HAD DONE ON TREND ANALYSIS. Q. OKAY. HAD YOU LOOKED AT THAT REPORT BEFORE? A. YEAH, ABOUT YEAR AND A HALF, TWO YEARS AGO. Q. DID YOU EXPRESS OPINIONS RELATING TO THAT REPORT YESTERDAY IN THE MEETING? A. I DIDN'T EXPRESS ANY OPINIONS, AS I RECALL, ABOUT THAT REPORT IN THE MEETING YESTERDAY. Q. OKAY. WHAT'D YOU SAY ABOUT THAT REPORT? A. OH, WHAT I DID SAY ABOUT THE REPORT IS THAT I DIDN'T SEE THAT IT WAS RELEVANT IN TERMS OF WHAT WE WERE DOING -- THAT IS, SONG AND I WERE DOING. Q. OKAY. YOU MEAN -- WHEN YOU SAY WHAT YOU AND SONG WERE DOING, JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS PROPOSED DISSERTATION TOPIC. A. YES, YES. Q. WHEN WILL HE GO BEFORE THE COMMITTEE TO HAVE THAT APPROVED? A. HE SAID YESTERDAY, HE HOPES BY THE END OF THE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 88 SUMMER AND I HOPE BY THE END OF THE SUMMER, TOO. I EXPECT BY THE END OF THE SUMMER. Q. SO HE WON'T START SUBSTANTIVE WORK ON THE TOPIC UNTIL THE COMMITTEE APPROVES IT? A. HE WON'T START SUBSTANTIVE WORK UNTIL THE COMMITTEE APPROVES IT. HE WILL DEVELOP IT ONLY TO THE EXTENT OF SHOWING THE COMMITTEE ITS PROSPECTS. Q. I SEE. OKAY. ANY OTHER TOPICS OF DISCUSSION WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK THAT WE DESCRIBED YESTERDAY WITH MS. STIM--- MR. REID: I ALWAYS GET YOUR NAME CONFUSED. MS. STINSON: I-N-S-O-N. MR. REID: IT'S "N," NOT "M." MS. STINSON: STINSON. MR. REID: I KNOW SOMEBODY NAMED STIMSON. STINSON. EXCUSE ME. MR. FITZGERALD: LIKE THE OLD AIRPLANE. MS. STINSON: RIGHT. MR. REID: PARDON? MR. FITZGERALD: STINSON, THE OLD AIRPLANE. MS. STINSON: AIRPLANE. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 89 A. I DON'T REMEMBER ANY. MS. STINSON: MY MAIDEN NAME WAS HOLSHOUSER, IF YOU WANT TO USE THAT NAME. Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU HAD A MEETING WITH -- WHO ELSE DID YOU HAVE A MEETING WITH YESTERDAY? YOU SAID YOU HAD THE TWO-HOUR MEETING. A. WE HAD JUST THAT TWO-HOUR MEETING. Q. OKAY. DID YOU--- A. THAT WAS IT. Q. ---AND YOU SPOKE WITH RICK BURGESS, YOU SAID. A. RICK BURGESS, YEAH. Q. OKAY. NOW, TELL ME ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION. MR. RUSSELL: I'M JUST GOING TO INSTRUCT THE WITNESS. YOU CAN ANSWER--- MR. REID: SAME UNDERSTANDING. MR. FITZGERALD: SAME UNDERSTANDING, YEAH. A. NOW--- MR. FITZGERALD: I NEED A CLARIFICATION HERE. I DON'T ACCEPT THAT. MR. REID: THAT'S FINE. MR. FITZGERALD: BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS WITNESS IS NOT DESIGNATED BY THE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 90 SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. AND SHOULD THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE ATTORNEYS DECIDE TO SPEAK WITH HIM, THERE IS NO PROTECTION WHATSOEVER. MR. REID: YEAH. MR. FITZGERALD: IT IS NOT WORK PRODUCT. MR. REID: OKAY. NO PROBLEM. MR. FITZGERALD: HE'S -- HE IS WHAT? WHAT? MR. RUSSELL: EXCUSE ME. MR. REID: I THINK Y'ALL ARE WITHDRAWING HIM AS AN EXPERT. MR. FITZGERALD: OH, OKAY. MS. STINSON: THAT'S TRUE. MR. REID: SO, I DON'T THINK HE'S YOUR EXPERT ANY MORE. MS. STINSON: THAT'S TRUE. MR. FITZGERALD: I HAVE THE DOCUMENT HERE. WE CAN MAKE IT A PART OF THE RECORD, IF WE HAVE TO. MR. RUSSELL: THAT'S TRUE, BUT THE -- OH, YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT, THAT WE'VE WITHDRAWN HIM AS AN EXPERT. MR. FITZGERALD: OH. MR. RUSSELL: THAT'S CORRECT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 91 MR. REID: HE'S NOT--- MR. RUSSELL: THAT'S CORRECT. MR. REID: ---YOUR WITNESS ANY FURTHER AND HE'S--- MR. REID: YEAH. MR. RUSSELL: ---NOT A CONSULTANT FOR YOU, SO--- MR. REID: WELL--- MR. RUSSELL: HE'S TESTIFIED--- MR. REID: ---WHEN HE HAD BEEN A--- MR. RUSSELL: ---WELL, WE HAD TALKED EARLIER ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE WAS A NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT IN ANOTHER MATTER. MR. REID: OKAY. MR. RUSSELL: AND, IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT THE DISCUSSION WITH ME AND WITH RICK BURGESS WAS, TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE WERE TRYING TO GET BACK A REPORT WHICH WAS INADVERTENTLY GIVEN TO YOU FOLKS. AND I'VE ASKED MS. STINSON TO REQUEST THAT. PERHAPS NOW IS THE TIME FOR HER TO REQUEST IT, BUT AT THE TIME SHE DID NOT REALIZE THAT IT WAS THE WORK PRODUCT OF A NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT AND THAT'S WHY IT WAS PRODUCED. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 92 MR. REID: WELL, WHAT REPORT IS IT? MS. STINSON: IT'S THE WALKER ONE, EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK TRENDS, AND WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THE DOCUMENTS--- MR. REID: YEAH. MS. STINSON: ---BUT IT IS MY INTENT TO REQUEST THAT BACK--- MR. REID: OKAY. I GUESS MY--- MS. STINSON: ---AS BEING INADVERTENTLY PRODUCED. BUT I DON'T KNOW--- MR. REID: WELL, YOU'RE NOT SAYING THAT'S PRIVILEGED, ARE YOU? MS. STINSON: THE -- I AM ASKING FOR IT BACK. THE LEAGUE HAS ASSERTED A PRIVILEGE OVER IT BECAUSE IT WAS DONE IN CONNECTION WITH HIS WORK AS A NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT. MR. REID: WALKER'S? MR. RUSSELL: IT'S NOT THE REPORT ITSELF. MS. STINSON: THE COMMENTS -- THE HANDWRITTEN COMMENTS--- MR. REID: AH, COMMENTS. MS. STINSON: ---ON IT. NO, WALKER'S REPORT, YOU CAN HAVE ALL OF THOSE YOU WANT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 93 MR. REID: OKAY. MR. FITZGERALD: I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST I WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT--- MR. REID: ALL RIGHT. MR. FITZGERALD: ---SINCE THAT REPORT HAS GONE OUT TO THE WORLD. MS. STINSON: OKAY. MR. REID: ALL RIGHT. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT LATER. EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. ALL RIGHT. LET ME -- LET'S GO BACK. I WAS ASKING YOU ABOUT YOUR TELEPHONE CONVERSATION YESTERDAY--- A. YEAH. Q. ---WITH MR. BURGESS, AND COUNSEL HAS JUST INDICATED THAT IT HAD TO DO WITH SOME NOTES THAT YOU MADE ON A -- ON BILL WALKER'S REPORT. A. YEAH. Q. AND, ASIDE FROM THAT TOPIC, WERE THERE ANY OTHER TOPICS THAT RELATED TO THE EVERGLADES OR TO THIS CASE? A. ACTUALLY, I THINK IT RELATED TO WHAT WAS JUST STATED, WHICH IS THAT RICK TOLD ME I'M NO LONGER LISTED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN THIS. Q. UH-HUH (YES). OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE IN THAT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 94 CONVERSATION? A. NO. Q. NOW, DID YOU HAVE ANOTHER CONVERSATION TODAY WITH ANYBODY? A. WITH RICHARD AND WITH DONNA--- Q. AND WHAT--- A. ---ABOUT FIFTEEN MINUTES -- BETWEEN 10:00 AND 10:15 THIS MORNING. Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WAS THE TOPIC OF THAT MEETING? A. THEY JUST TOLD ME TO TELL THE TRUTH, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE DOING. Q. SO, YOU DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE OF YOUR OPINIONS OR TESTIMONY? A. (NODS NEGATIVELY.) Q. BEFORE THAT MEETING YESTERDAY, WHEN'S THE LAST TIME YOU HAD A MEETING WITH ANYBODY ABOUT THE EVERGLADES OR YOUR WORK IN THIS CASE? AND BY THAT, I MEAN ANYBODY. A. I MET WITH -- DONNA CAME HERE A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, I GUESS. AND IT EITHER WAS THAT OR WHEN I WAS DOWN AT THE DISTRICT ON OKEECHOBEE. I SPOKE VERY BRIEFLY ON THE EVERGLADES WITH TOM FONTAINE. Q. OKAY. NOW, THAT'S -- YOU MENTIONED DONNA AND YOU MENTIONED TOM FONTAINE. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 95 A. YEAH. I JUST DON'T REMEMBER WHICH WAS THE LAST ONE. Q. OKAY. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT WITH DONNA FIRST, AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT TOM. WHAT WAS THE SUBJECT MATTER OF YOUR MEETING WITH DONNA? WITNESS: I HATE TO ADMIT IT, DONNA, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT--- Q. SHE MADE A LASTING IMPRESSION ON YOU, RIGHT? A. MADE A LASTING IMPRESSION. Q. OKAY. AND HOW ABOUT WITH TOM? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT? A. YES. IT WAS TO GET A MEETING WITH BILL WALKER AND WITH TOM FONTAINE TO RESURRECT THE EVERGLADES MONITORING TOC SUBCOMMITTEE. Q. OKAY. BEFORE THAT, CAN YOU REMEMBER ANY MEETINGS ABOUT THE EVERGLADES OR CONVERSATIONS? A. I THINK THE LAST MEETING MAY HAVE BEEN SOMETIME LAST SUMMER. IT WAS PROBABLY THE FIRST MEETING I HAD ON THIS WORK THAT SONG HAS BEGUN. Q. AND THAT WAS A MEETING WITH WHOM? A. I THINK IT INVOLVED SONG AND CURT RICHARDSON AND ME AND BILL GREEN AND RICK BURGESS. Q. AND THAT WAS A MEETING UP HERE AT DUKE? A. YES. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 96 Q. AND TELL ME WHAT THE TOPIC COVERED IN THAT MEETING WAS -- OR TOPICS. A. GEE, I DON'T RECALL VERY WELL, BUT I -- WE OUTLINED -- THAT IS, WE -- SONG AND ME -- WHAT HE HOPED TO DO ON HIS RESEARCH. Q. AND WHAT WAS THAT? A. IN ESSENCE, WHAT I SAID TO YOU, IS TO USE STATISTICAL METHODS TO LOOK AT WETLANDS TRAPPINGS OF NUTRIENTS. Q. IN A PARTICULAR AREA? A. IN DATA THAT HE COULD OBTAIN, BOTH WCA-2A AS WELL AS OTHER WETLANDS. Q. WHAT OTHER WETLANDS BESIDES 2A? A. THE ONLY THING THAT WE WERE AWARE OF AS A GOOD DATA SOURCE IS THE WORK THAT KADLEC HAD DONE, I BELIEVE, FOR THE DISTRICT -- FOR THE NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE. Q. OKAY. HOW LONG DID THAT MEETING LAST? A. I THINK I WAS INVOLVED IN THE MEETING FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS. Q. HAVE YOU MET WITH ANY OTHER EXPERT WITNESSES FOR ANY OF THE FARMING INTERESTS IN THIS CASE? A. THERE WAS ONE OTHER MEETING I DO REMEMBER. LAST FALL THERE WAS A MEETING IN DURHAM, AND I CAME FOR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 97 ONLY ABOUT A HALF HOUR. Q. AND WHO WAS AT THAT MEETING? A. SEVERAL PEOPLE, AND I DON'T REMEMBER EVERYONE -- CURT RICHARDSON, BILL GREEN, PHIL PARSONS -- AND A NUMBER OF SCIENTISTS, AND I JUST DON'T REMEMBER. I WAS THERE VERY BRIEFLY. I CAME OVER JUST AT A BREAK. I WAS THERE FOR ABOUT A HALF HOUR. Q. DID YOU CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING TO THE MEETING? A. I TALKED ABOUT THINGS THAT I THOUGHT WE WOULD DO--- Q. SAME SUBJECT MATTER? A. ---THROUGH SONG'S RESEARCH. YEAH. Q. OKAY. NOW, I WAS ASKING YOU IF YOU HAVE MET WITH ANY OTHER EXPERTS FOR ANY OF THE FARM INTERESTS? A. I DON'T REMEMBER MEETING WITH ANY. Q. OKAY. AND YOU MENTIONED THE LAWYERS -- THE MEETINGS YOU HAD WITH LAWYERS? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. I WANT TO GO BACK TO, SAY, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO WHEN RICK BURGESS CALLED YOU TO ASK YOU TO CONSULT ON BEHALF OF THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE--- MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO FORM. I THINK IT MISCHARACTERIZES. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 98 MR. REID: WHICH PART? MS. STINSON: TESTIMONY. I DON'T BELIEVE HE TESTIFIED THAT RICK CALLED HIM A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. I THINK--- MR. REID: THAT'S MY NOTE. MS. STINSON: OKAY. WELL--- Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. WHEN DID RICK BURGESS CALL YOU AND -- WHEN PEEPLES, EARL ASKED -- AND ASKED YOU TO BE A CONSULTANT FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE? I WROTE DOWN A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. A. IT WAS ABOUT A YEAR AGO THAT I STOPPED WORKING FOR THEM, ONCE I STARTED WORKING FOR THE DISTRICT. Q. WELL--- A. I DON'T RECALL WHEN MY INITIAL CONTACT WAS, BUT IT WAS BEFORE A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. Q. OKAY. WELL, WHENEVER IT WAS--- A. YEAH. TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO. Q. ---THAT WOULD BE IN YOUR RECORDS THAT YOU HAVE BACK AT YOUR OFFICE? A. IT MAY BE. I'M NOT SOMEONE WHO KEEPS THOROUGH RECORDS, BUT IT MAY BE. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO BACK TO THAT TIME THEN--- A. YEAH. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 99 Q. ---WHEN HE CALLED YOU. TELL ME WHAT HE CALLED YOU FOR. A. I HONESTLY DON'T REMEMBER. Q. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHY HE CALLED YOU? A. WELL, I KNOW THAT IT -- I'VE WORKED WITH HIM AS A SPINOFF OF WORK ON OKEECHOBEE; AT LEAST THAT'S THE WAY IT APPEARED TO ME. AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN THE FIRST CONTACT WAS, AND WHAT THE NATURE -- WHAT THE FIRST PIECE OF WORK I DID FOR THEM. Q. OKAY. NOW, I UNDERSTOOD YOUR LAKE OKEECHOBEE WORK WAS FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, BUT YOU WERE RETAINED BY A DIFFERENT LAW FIRM, OR WAS THAT AN ENGINEERING FIRM THAT RETAINED YOU? I MAY HAVE GOTTEN MY NOTES -- LANDERS & PARSONS. A. MY INITIAL CONTACT, WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN FOUR YEARS AGO, WAS THROUGH PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK. Q. OH, NOW, YOU DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT THAT YET. A. NO, THAT'S WHAT LED TO THE OKEECHOBEE WORK. Q. OKAY. A. THE WORK WAS THROUGH PHIL PARSONS, BUT THE INITIAL CONTACT WAS THROUGH PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK. Q. OKAY. SO PEEPLES, EARL CALLED YOU TO WORK ON LAKE OKEECHOBEE ON BEHALF OF THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE? A. I CAN'T -- DON'T REMEMBER THE SEQUENCE OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 100 ACTIVITIES -- WHO CALLED -- BUT I DO REMEMBER THAT THE INITIAL CONTACT WAS THROUGH PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK. Q. OKAY. AND THEN YOU DID THAT WORK THAT YOU TOLD ME ABOUT ON LAKE OKEECHOBEE? A. ON LAKE OKEECHOBEE, YES. Q. AND THEN THAT'S FINISHED? A. YES. Q. AND THEN AT SOME POINT SOMEBODY CALLED YOU -- RICK BURGESS CALLED YOU ABOUT GETTING INVOLVED IN THE EVERGLADES ISSUES IN SOME MANNER? A. YEAH. AT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINES, WE TALKED ABOUT EVERGLADES ACTIVITY, OR THINGS HAVING TO DO WITH THE EVERGLADES. I DON'T -- WELL, YEAH. I WAS GOING TO SAY I DON'T RECALL ACTUALLY WORKING ON THE EVERGLADES, BUT--- Q. WELL, THIS CONVERSATION WITH RICK BURGESS, WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT CONVERSATION? A. I JUST DON'T REMEMBER. I DON'T THINK OF A SINGLE CONVERSATION AS INITIATING THE WORK. Q. OKAY. WELL, WHAT DID YOU -- AT SOME POINT, YOU STARTED DOING SOME WORK FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES? A. YES. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 101 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF THAT WORK? A. I WAS ASKED TO LOOK AT SOME WORK THAT BILL WALKER HAD DONE. Q. AND WHAT, SPECIFICALLY, DID YOU LOOK AT? A. I LOOKED AT SOME WORK THAT HE HAD DONE ON TREND DETECTION, AND WATER QUALITY, PARTICULARLY IF, I GUESS, IT JUST WAS PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION. Q. WOULD THAT BE IN THE PARK? A. I DON'T THINK IT WAS IN THE PARK. Q. BUT IT WAS TREND ANALYSIS THAT HE WAS DOING? A. YES. Q. AND IT HAD TO DO WITH PHOSPHORUS? A. YES. Q. DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE IT WAS? A. I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS. Q. OKAY. AND DID YOU SEE A REPORT? A. YES. Q. AND IS THAT THE REPORT THAT HAS YOUR NOTES ON IT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER? A. YES. Q. AND THOSE NOTES WOULD BE YOUR REACTION, YOUR COMMENTS TO BILL WALKER'S WORK? A. YES. Q. AND YOU DON'T REMEMBER WHEN YOU DID THAT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 102 A. NO, I DO REMEMBER WHEN THAT OCCURRED--- Q. OKAY. A. ---IN THE SUMMER OF '91. Q. OKAY. YOU WERE CRITIQUING BILL WALKER'S WORK, IN EFFECT? A. YES. Q. OKAY. AND ONCE YOU CRITIQUED HIS WORK, DID YOU DO A REPORT OF ANY SORT? A. I DON'T RECALL DOING A REPORT. Q. HOW DID YOU REPORT YOUR CRITIQUE? A. BY PERSONAL CONVERSATION -- BY TELEPHONE CONVERSATION. Q. WITH MR. BURGESS? A. YES. Q. ALL RIGHT. AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE--- A. OKAY. Q. ---BUT HOW MUCH TIME DID YOU SPEND ON THAT PROJECT? A. SOMEWHERE IN THE ORDER OF A FEW DAYS TO A WEEK. Q. AND ONCE YOU REPORTED YOUR FINDINGS TO MR. BURGESS, DID THAT CONCLUDE THE CONSULTING WORK YOU WERE DOING AT THAT TIME FOR THE LEAGUE? A. THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PRETTY CLOSE TO THE END OF THE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 103 CONSULTING WORK THAT I HAD DONE. Q. DID YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES REVIEW BILL WALKER'S WORK? A. I HAD A -- A FORMER STUDENT LOOKED AT SOME OF THE CODE THAT BILL WALKER HAD WRITTEN TO DO THE TREND ANALYSIS. I DIDN'T DO THAT. Q. WHO'S YOUR FORMER STUDENT? A. HIS NAME IS BILL WARREN-HICKS -- WILLIAM WARREN-HICKS. Q. ONE OF THOSE HYPHENATED NAMES? A. YES. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. WERE YOU GETTING PAID BY THE HOUR FOR THAT WORK? A. YOU KNOW, I DON'T REMEMBER WHETHER IT WAS BY THE HOUR OR JUST A SET FEE. Q. THEN YOU WERE DOING THIS AS A PRIVATE CONSULTANT? A. YES. Q. AND YOU'D HAVE A RECORD OF YOUR BILLINGS BACK AT YOUR OFFICE? A. I PROBABLY HAVE A RECORD BACK AT MY OFFICE. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 104 Q. AND HOW MUCH DID YOU GET FOR THIS JOB; DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA? A. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. ALL RIGHT. WHAT'S THE NEXT THING YOU DID FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE? A. I RECALL HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH RICK BURGESS; WITH JOHN DAVIS. I DON'T REMEMBER THE DETAILS, AND I DON'T REMEMBER DOING MUCH WORK BEYOND THAT. Q. NOW, A MINUTE AGO I WAS ASKING YOU ABOUT ALL THE TIMES YOU HAD MET OR TALKED WITH OTHER EXPERTS. A. THAT WAS CONCERNING THE EVERGLADES, YEAH. Q. YEAH. AND SO WITH JOHN DAVIS, YOU DID NOT TALK TO HIM ABOUT THE EVERGLADES? A. WHAT YOU ASKED ME ABOUT WAS IN THAT TIME PERIOD, BASICALLY, SINCE WE STARTED THE PROJECT, AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS RESPONDING TO. Q. WELL, THAT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING. I WANTED TO KNOW ALL THE MEETINGS AND CONVERSATIONS YOU'VE EVER HAD ABOUT THE EVERGLADES WITH--- A. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE EVER TALKED ABOUT THE EVERGLADES. I THINK MOST OF OUR CONVERSATION AT THAT POINT WAS ABOUT LOXAHATCHEE. Q. WELL, OKAY. BY EVERGLADES, I MEAN EVERYTHING SOUTH OF LAKE OKEECHOBEE TO FLORIDA BAY, AND AS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 105 FAR AS IT GOES COAST TO COAST. A. UH-HUH (YES), OKAY. Q. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THOUGHT I MEANT BY EVERGLADES. YOU DON'T CONSIDER LOXAHATCHEE PART OF THE EVERGLADES? A. I'M NOT THAT FAMILIAR WITH SOUTH FLORIDA. SO, NO, I'D THINK OF EVERGLADES AS THE PARK. Q. OKAY. DOES THAT CHANGE ANY OF YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY? A. NO. Q. OKAY. MR. FITZGERALD: WE MAY NEED A STIPULATION ON THE DEFINITION OF THE SWIM PLAN SO WE'RE ALL PLAYING OFF THE SAME CARDS. MR. REID: I KNOW. OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU TALK TO JOHN DAVIS ABOUT? A. I DON'T REMEMBER THE SPECIFICS. IT, NO DOUBT, WAS CONCERNING CONCLUSIONS IN THE REVIEW OF BILL WALKER'S REPORT. Q. THE SAME REPORT THAT YOU CRITIQUED? A. YES. Q. OKAY. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 106 A. AND IT ALSO, AS I RECALL, RELATED TO DISCUSSION OF CONCENTRATIONS OF PHOSPHORUS IN THE CANALS AND CONCENTRATIONS INSIDE THE LOXAHATCHEE. Q. AND WERE YOU DRAWING CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THAT? A. NO. Q. WAS HE? A. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. WHAT WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT? A. IT JUST WAS GENERAL DISCUSSION. I NEVER GOT HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THAT WORK. Q. OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE -- ANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS OR MEETINGS WITH ANY EXPERTS? A. ANY EXPERTS SOUTH OF LAKE OKEECHOBEE? Q. CONCERNING THIS CASE OR THE BROADER EVERGLADES. A. I HAD A PHONE CONVERSATION, LASTED ABOUT FIVE MINUTES -- I THINK IT WAS LAST FALL -- WITH A CONSULTANT FROM TETRA TECH, WHO ASKED ME ABOUT OUR MODEL. AND I TOLD HIM WE HAD NO MODEL. Q. WHO WAS THAT? A. THE NAME'S RIGHT ON THE TIP OF MY TONGUE AND I JUST DON'T REMEMBER. Q. WHEN WAS THE CONVERSATION? A. I BELIEVE IT WAS LAST FALL. Q. OKAY. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 107 MR. FITZGERALD: FOR THE SAKE OF MOVING THAT ALONG--- MR. REID: YES. MR. FITZGERALD: ---COULD I SUGGEST MUNSON? WITNESS: MUNSON, YEAH. MR. REID: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS? A. I TALKED TO BILL WALKER OFF AND ON. Q. UH-HUH (YES), OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE? A. OTHER THAN SCIENTISTS AT THE DISTRICT, NO. I JUST DON'T REMEMBER ANY. Q. RIGHT NOW, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS ONE CONSULTING JOB YOU DID FOR THE LEAGUE, AND I WAS MOVING AHEAD. ASIDE FROM THESE CONVERSATIONS YOU'VE RELATED, AND YOUR REVIEW OF WALKER'S WORK, DID YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE IN THAT CONSULTING WORK FOR THE LEAGUE? MS. STINSON: EXCUSE ME. WOULD YOU READ BACK THAT QUESTION? (THEREUPON, THE QUESTION APPEARING ON PAGE 107, LINES 15 - 20, INCLUSIVE, WAS REPEATED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 108 MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO FORM. MR. REID: YOU CAN ANSWER. MR. RUSSELL: DO YOU UNDERSTAND -- I'M JUST GOING TO INSTRUCT THE WITNESS TO ANSWER TO THE EXTENT THAT IT DOESN'T -- IT GOES BEYOND GENERAL WORK INVOLVED IN THE CONSULTATION. MR. REID: WELL, I WANT TO KNOW EVERY BIT OF WORK THAT HE'S EVER DONE FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, AND THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH I CAN FIND OUT ABOUT IT, BUT I WANT TO BE SURE HE TELLS ME ABOUT ANY WORK HE'S DONE FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. MR. RUSSELL: IT SEEMED TO ME THAT, YOU KNOW, BASED ON YOUR QUESTION, THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS SAME CONSULTATION. IF IT'S SOMETHING ELSE -- AND HE'S ALREADY EXPLAINED THAT. IF IT'S SOMETHING ELSE, THEN THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION. MR. REID: WELL, I'M HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING. WE'RE NOT COMMUNICATING CLEARLY ON WHEN A CONSULTING JOB STARTS AND STOPS. Q. (BY MR. REID) DO YOU CONSIDER, FOR INSTANCE, YOUR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 109 TALK WITH JOHN DAVIS, PART OF CONSULTING WORK FOR THE LEAGUE? A. IT DEPENDS. IF IT'S A PHONE CALL -- AND IN TERMS OF WHETHER I BILL FOR THAT TIME -- NO, I DON'T. Q. ALL RIGHT. A. BUT I LOOK AT CONSULTING JOBS MORE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF HAVING A BEGINNING WITH A TASK, A CONTRACT, AND THEN A COMPLETION POINT. Q. OKAY. AND YOUR FIRST CONSULTING JOB, OR THE ONE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, IS YOUR JOB AS TO REVIEW BILL WALKER'S WORK AND CRITIQUE IT, AND YOU FINISHED THAT. A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU DONE FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, AFTER THAT? A. I DON'T BELIEVE I DID ANYTHING ELSE THAT WAS ON A CONTRACT BASIS WITH THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. Q. DID YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE THAT WASN'T ON A CONTRACT BASIS? A. I HAD OCCASIONAL CONVERSATIONS, IT SEEMS TO ME, WITH RICK BURGESS AND WITH JOHN DAVIS, BUT IT NEVER WAS PART OF ANY PROJECT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 110 Q. AND WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS? A. I DON'T RECALL. I DIDN'T INITIATE THEM. Q. SO, UP THROUGH TODAY, YOU'VE TOLD ME ALL THE WORK YOU'VE DONE FOR THE FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, EVER? A. EVERYTHING THAT I CAN REMEMBER. Q. OKAY. NOW, HAVE YOU DONE ANY WORK, EVER, FOR THE HOPPING, BOYD FIRM, OR FOR THE COOPERATIVE? A. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I HAVE FOR THE COOPERATIVE. I CAN'T ALWAYS CLEARLY IDENTIFY THE DIFFERENT GROUPS. AND I HAVE NOT DONE ANY WORK FOR HOPPING BOYD. Q. OKAY. WHAT WAS YOUR REASON FOR MEETING WITH MS. STINSON? A. THAT MEETING A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO THAT WE REFERRED TO? Q. THAT ONE AND YESTERDAY AND THIS MORNING? A. THEY'VE LISTED ME AS AN EXPERT WITNESS, AND I'M HERE. Q. OKAY. AND YOU HAVE NO FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS WITH THEM ABOUT YOUR WORK AS AN EXPERT WITNESS? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND DO YOU PLAN TO HAVE ANY? A. NO. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 111 Q. SO, THIS IS ALL FREE? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. OKAY. AND DO YOU PLAN TO TESTIFY FOR THEM AT THIS HEARING IF THEY ASK YOU TO? A. I HAVEN'T DECIDED. Q. THEY TOLD YOU THAT THEY'VE LISTED YOU AS AN EXPERT WITNESS? A. YES. Q. OKAY. AND THAT'S OKAY WITH YOU? A. YES. RIGHT NOW, IT IS, YEAH. Q. OKAY. NOW, DID YOU EVER SEE THE NOTICE OF DEPOSITION THAT WAS ISSUED FOR YOU IN THIS CASE? A. YES. Q. AND DID YOU GO OVER THE DOCUMENT LISTINGS THAT WERE ATTACHED TO IT? A. THAT'S WHAT WE MET ON. OKAY, I REMEMBER. Q. ALL RIGHT. A. YES. Q. OKAY. WELL, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THOSE, AND I'VE ASKED FOR A CURRENT CV, AND I HAVE ONE THAT WE LOOKED AT A MINUTE AGO. IS THAT CURRENT -- IF WE STRUCK THE WORD "RESEARCH" FROM ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, THAT WOULD BE--- (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 112 A. I HAVE ONE THAT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO THIS THAT HAS A FEW UPDATED PUBLICATIONS ON IT. MR. REID: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S JUST MARK THIS AS -- WE'RE MARKING SEPARATELY IN EACH DEPOSITION, AREN'T WE? OKAY. LET'S MARK THAT. THAT'S MY ONLY COPY. FOR SOME REASON, I DIDN'T GET AN EXTRA COPY OF THAT. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO ABOVE WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 1 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) MR. REID: THANK YOU. THAT WILL BE EXHIBIT 1. Q. (BY MR. REID) ITEM TWO ASKS FOR ALL DOCUMENTS WHICH REFLECT OR RELATE TO YOUR PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS AND FINANCIAL RELATIONSHIP AND RETENTION BY -- AND IT LISTS A GROUP OF ORGANIZATIONS AND LAW FIRMS. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT I RECEIVED THAT HAD THESE TYPE DOCUMENTS. DO SUCH DOCUMENTS EXIST? IF YOU WILL LOOK AT NUMBER TWO. MS. STINSON: WE HAVE WITHHELD AS PRIVILEGED DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE WORK DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 113 HE DID FOR THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE THAT HE HAS DESCRIBED TO YOU IN THIS DEPOSITION. MR. REID: HIS CRITIQUE OF BILL WALKER'S WORK -- THAT WORK, YOU MEAN? MS. STINSON: THAT WAS PRODUCED INADVERTENTLY. THERE ARE OTHER DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PRODUCED THAT WERE WITHHELD AS PRIVILEGED--- MR. REID: OKAY. MS. STINSON: ---ON THAT. MR. REID: HAD -- I FORGOT, DO WE HAVE THAT LIST -- THE PRIVILEGED LIST? I HAVEN'T SEEN IT. MS. STINSON: OKAY. MR. FITZGERALD: WE DO NOT HAVE THE LIST. MR. REID: OKAY. WELL, LET'S WORK THROUGH THE LIST HERE, AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK TO IT. AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, LET ME MARK THE DUCES TECUM, NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION DUCES TECUM AND THE ATTACHMENT AS EXHIBIT TWO. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 114 EXHIBIT NO. 2 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) Q. (BY MR. REID) DO YOU HAVE ANY DOCUMENTS THAT ARE CALLED FOR IN PARAGRAPH 2? A. THAT'S REFERRING TO--- MR. McCAUGHAN: DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THAT EXHIBIT? MR. REID: HE JUST READ IT. MR. McCAUGHAN: OKAY. MR. REID: I'LL WALK AROUND. I CAN JUST LOOK OVER HIS SHOULDER. WITNESS: SURE. MR. FITZGERALD: WHEN YOU GET THROUGH WITH THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING, CAN WE TAKE A SHORT BREAK? MR. REID: YEAH, LET'S DO THAT--- WITNESS: CAN WE TAKE A BREAK NOW? MR. REID: ---LET'S TAKE A SHORT BREAK. (THEREUPON, A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 115 EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE LOOKING AT EXHIBIT NUMBER TWO. MR. FITZGERALD: DID WE MARK THE RESUME AS ONE? MR. REID: ONE, YEAH. Q. NOW, LOOK AT PARAGRAPH TWO, AND TELL ME IF YOU HAVE ANY DOCUMENTS THAT ARE CALLED FOR IN THAT PARAGRAPH. I DIDN'T SEE ANY IN WHAT WAS PRODUCED TO ME. MS. STINSON: EXCUSE ME. WHAT NUMBER? WITNESS: RIGHT HERE. MR. REID: TWO. MS. STINSON: TWO. MR. RUSSELL: YEAH. I THINK THAT'S THE ONE HE ALREADY ASKED. A. YEAH. I'M SURE I DO. MR. REID: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE NEED TO GET A COPY OF THOSE AS SOON AS WE CAN. MS. STINSON: THOSE -- WELL, LET ME GO -- PERHAPS YOU SHOULD ASK HIM PARTICULAR ENTITIES, BUT THOSE WITH RESPECT TO THE LEAGUE AND ITS AFFILIATED ENTITIES, WE HAVE WITHHELD AS PRIVILEGED. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 116 Q. (BY MR. REID) WELL, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU HAVE, ENTITY BY ENTITY? A. I CAN TRY. I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANYTHING -- LET'S SEE -- "PROFESSIONAL, BUSINESS, OR FINANCIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH AND RETENTION BY" -- I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE FOR THE COOPERATIVE, ROTH FARMS, WEDGWORTH FARMS. I HAVE THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. I HAVE THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK. I GUESS THAT'S IT. MR. REID: WELL, WHENEVER WE GET THIS -- I ASSUME ALL THAT WILL BE ON YOUR PRIVILEGED LIST? MS. STINSON: CORRECT. MR. REID: AND WHEN WE GET THE PRIVILEGE LIST, WE'LL SEE THEM AND WE'LL DEAL WITH THEM. MS. STINSON: OKAY. MR. REID: LET ME JUST MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE CONSULTING WORK THAT HE DID FOR THE LEAGUE, WHICH WAS A CRITIQUE OF BILL WALKER'S WORK, IS PROTECTED BECAUSE YOU'VE WITHDRAWN HIM AS AN EXPERT NOW? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 117 MR. RUSSELL: NO, NO. HE IS PROTECTED BECAUSE AND HE WAS A NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT IN A PREVIOUS PROCEEDING IN A FEDERAL LAWSUIT. HE WAS A NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT, CONSULTED WITH THE LEAGUE ON THAT, AND THOSE DOCUMENTS WERE PROTECTED AND CONTINUE TO BE PROTECTED. AND ALSO, IN ADDITION, AS HE STATED BEFORE, THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS WORK AND HIS TESTIMONY AS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN THIS PROCEEDING. MR. REID: BUT, JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HIS CRITIQUE OF BILL WALKER'S REPORT? MR. RUSSELL: CORRECT. MR. REID: AND BY THAT, WE MEAN WATER QUALITY TRENDS AT INFLOWS TO EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK? THAT'S THE NAME OF THE PAPER--- MR. RUSSELL: IS THAT THE NAME OF IT? Q. (BY MR. REID) IS THAT THE NAME OF THE PAPER THAT YOU CRITIQUED? A. CAN I SEE THAT? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. YEAH. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 118 MR. RUSSELL: AND THAT'S THE REPORT, OBVIOUSLY, A REDACTED VERSION'S FINE, BUT THE REPORT WITH NOTES ARE WHAT WE'VE ASKED FOR BACK TODAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) WELL, DID YOU ALSO LOOK AT THE -- THERE'S A SECOND BILL WALKER REPORT, "REFINEMENTS TO PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE RELATIONSHIP" AND SO FORTH. DID YOU CRITIQUE THAT ONE AS WELL? A. YEAH, I DID. MR. REID: ALL RIGHT. JUST FOR THE RECORD, LET'S MARK THE FIRST BILL WALKER SEPTEMBER, 1990, "WATER QUALITY TRENDS AT INFLOWS TO EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK" AS EXHIBIT THREE, AND THIS IS THE VERSION WITH THE HANDWRITTEN NOTES. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO ABOVE WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 3 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) MR. RUSSELL: AM I ASSUMING THEN--- MR. REID: WELL, THE PROBLEM YOU'VE GOT IS THAT THERE ARE COPIES ARE EVERYWHERE. YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT, I CAN'T GIVE YOU BACK ALL THE COPIES, BECAUSE UNTIL THIS MINUTE, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 119 WE HAD NO IDEA THAT YOU CONSIDERED THAT PRIVILEGED. I'M NOT SURE IT CAN BE, AND WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE. MR. RUSSELL: WE JUST FOUND THAT INFORMATION OUT IN PREPARING FOR HIS TESTIMONY, AS WE SAID, WITHIN THE LAST TWO DAYS. MR. REID: SO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO. I MEAN, I CAN GIVE YOU THIS ONE BACK, BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY HELP, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE ARE COPIES ALL AROUND. I MEAN, THESE WERE PRODUCED AND ALL OF THE PARTIES COPIED THEM, AND THEY'VE GONE ALL OVER. MR. RUSSELL: HOW MANY COPIES WERE PRODUCED, COUNSEL, DO YOU REMEMBER? MR. REID: WELL, NO. YOU PRODUCED THEM, AND THEN ALL THE DEFENDANTS -- I MEAN, ALL THE RESPONDENTS IN THE CASE MAY HAVE GOTTEN COPIES. I'VE MADE SEVERAL COPIES. I'VE GOT A WORKING COPY, YOU KNOW. MR. FITZGERALD: I HAVE COPIES OFF TO WASHINGTON ALREADY. MR. REID: YEAH, I MEAN, AND OUR EXPERTS ARE LOOKING AT THEM, AND SO FORTH. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 120 MR. FITZGERALD: ON THE PLUS SIDE, WE CAN'T READ SOME OF THE NOTATIONS. MR. REID: I WILL TELL YOU I'LL DO THIS; DURING THIS ROUND OF THE DEPOSITION, I WILL NOT EXAMINE THE WITNESS ON THE HANDWRITTEN NOTES. I'LL DO THAT THE NEXT ROUND. MR. FITZGERALD: WE HAD BETTER THINK ABOUT THAT OVERNIGHT, BECAUSE I HAVE A FEW POINTS I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS WITH THE WITNESS REGARDING HIS--- MS. STINSON: OKAY. NO, THIS--- MR. FITZGERALD: ---WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT. WE'LL FIGURE THAT TOMORROW. MR. RUSSELL: I GUESS MY QUESTION IS -- WELL, NOT THAT I AM SO CONCERNED WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL BE CONTINUED OR NOT. DID YOU PLAN ON CONTINUING THE DEPOSITION, IN ANY EVENT THEN? MS. STINSON: WE'VE EXPECTED THAT THERE WILL BE A CONTINUATION. MR. RUSSELL: OKAY, OKAY. WELL--- MR. FITZGERALD: BASED ON THIS LETTER, I THINK--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 121 MR. RUSSELL: OKAY, THAT'S FINE. MR. REID: WELL, NO, NO. LET'S JUST GET IT ON THE RECORD, JUST SO IT'S CLEAR. WE'RE CONTINUING IT BECAUSE IT WAS ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED TO START AT 9:00 TODAY AND IT WAS BLOCKED OFF FOR TWO DAYS. WE MOVED IT -- TWO DAYS AGO WE FOUND OUT THAT DR. RECKHOW HAD A CLASS THIS MORNING, SO WE STARTED AT 12:30, APPROXIMATELY. WE ALSO DISCOVERED TODAY, WHEN WE GOT HERE, THAT HE HAS TO LEAVE AT 4:00 TODAY. WE ALSO LEARNED THAT COUNSEL HAS TO LEAVE TOMORROW AT NOON. SO, THAT'S WHY IT'S GOING TO BE CONTINUED, NOT -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO QUESTION AS -- OKAY. MR. RUSSELL: THE POINT IS, IF IT'S NECESSARY, THAT'S ALL. MR. REID: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND NOW LET'S MARK, AS EXHIBIT FOUR, DR. WALKER'S REPORT DATED AUGUST 28, 1992, WHICH THE WITNESS PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED AS HAVING CRITIQUED. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO ABOVE WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 4 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 122 DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) (THEREUPON, WITNESS CONFERS WITH MS. STINSON.) Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. LOOK AT PARAGRAPH 3 IN THE EXHIBIT 2. A. OKAY. WITNESS: THAT'S THIS RIGHT HERE? MS. STINSON: YEAH. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY DOCUMENTS THAT ARE DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH 3? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN PRODUCED. Q. OKAY. AND WE'LL BE MARKING THESE AND GOING THROUGH THEM LATER. ALL RIGHT, LOOK AT NUMBER 4 PLEASE. SAME QUESTION. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. SAME ANSWER. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING. Q. SO, THERE ARE NO OTHER DOCUMENTS EXCEPT FOR WHAT YOU'VE PRODUCED, AND YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS STACK OF DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN PRODUCED; IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES. Q. OKAY. YOU'RE NOT RELYING ON ANYTHING ELSE IN SUPPORT OF ANY OPINIONS OR CONCLUSIONS OR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 123 TESTIMONY THAT YOU EXPECT TO GIVE? A. I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO BE A BASIS FOR TESTIMONY, AT THIS POINT, OTHER THAN THINGS THAT WE'VE PRODUCED. Q. OKAY. LOOK AT NUMBER 5 PLEASE, AND ANSWER THE SAME QUESTION. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THE SAME ANSWER. Q. HOW ABOUT NUMBER 6? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING -- I DON'T ANTICIPATE ANYTHING THERE. Q. OKAY. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU THIS ABOUT ALL THE REMAINING ONES. IF YOU'D LIKE TO TAKE A SECOND, JUST SKIM THROUGH THE REST. A. OKAY. Q. THAT'D BE 7 THROUGH 14, IF YOU'LL LOOK THOUGH THAT. A. OKAY. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. WITH REGARD TO 9, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT HANDOUT THAT I USED IN DECISION ANALYSIS MIGHT FIT IN. Q. AND YOU DON'T HAVE A COPY OF THAT HANDY? A. NO. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 124 Q. CAN YOU TRY TO FIND ONE BEFORE--- MR. REID: WILL YOU LET HIM GIVE THAT TO ME, OR WILL YOU GIVE IT TO ME? MS. STINSON: I BELIEVE SO. MR. REID: OKAY, SURE. MR. FITZGERALD: SIR, AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WAS THE WITNESS REFERRING TO HIS CLASS HANDOUT ON DECISION MAKING? WITNESS: YES. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. NO, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE THAT FITS. Q. (BY MR. REID) MEANING YOU DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER DOCUMENTS THAT ARE CALLED FOR BY ANY OF THOSE PARAGRAPHS OTHER THAN WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN PRODUCED? A. NOT THAT I CAN RECALL. Q. OKAY. NOW, YOU WERE ORIGINALLY DESIGNATED AS AN EXPERT IN THIS CASE BY THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE. WERE YOU AWARE OF THAT? A. I GUESS I PROBABLY WAS, YEAH. Q. DID ANYBODY DISCUSS WITH YOU THE SUMMARY OF YOUR OPINIONS THAT WAS FILED IN THIS RECORD ON BEHALF OF THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 125 A. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. IT WAS REPRESENTED THAT YOU WOULD TESTIFY TO THE FOLLOWING SUBJECT MATTER: EPA PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE, STA'S, STATISTICS, PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION LIMITS, WATER QUALITY TRENDS AND WATER QUANTITY. DO YOU RECALL EVER BEING TOLD THAT OR THAT THAT WAS BEING FILED? A. NO. Q. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS, AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY, ON ANY OF THOSE AREAS? A. CAN YOU READ THEM AGAIN? Q. I WILL. EPA PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE--- A. THAT'S THE EVERGLADES PROTECTION AREA, EPA? Q. RIGHT. A. OKAY. NO. Q. STA'S? A. NO. Q. STATISTICS? A. THAT'S PRETTY BROAD. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT'S REFERRING TO? Q. WELL, LET'S SKIP THAT WORD FOR RIGHT NOW. A. OKAY. Q. WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT. A. OKAY. Q. PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION LIMITS? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 126 A. NO. Q. WATER QUALITY TRENDS? A. WATER QUALITY TRENDS WHERE? Q. I ASSUME IN THE EVERGLADES, THE BROADER EVERGLADES. A. NOTHING THAT I CAN SPEAK ABOUT RIGHT NOW. I THINK THE COMMENTS ON THAT MANUSCRIPT OF BILL WALKER'S ARE THE BEST REFLECTION OF WHAT I THOUGHT AT THAT TIME I WROTE THOSE. Q. OKAY. AND THE FINAL ONE IS WATER QUANTITY. A. NO. Q. NOW, ARE YOU IN THE PROCESS, OR DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS TO DEVELOP ANY OPINIONS RELATING TO ANY OF THOSE SUBJECT MATTERS? A. I EXPECT THAT THROUGH THE WORK WITH THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, THE MONITORING SUBCOMMITTEE WITH BILL WALKER, THAT SOMETHING MIGHT COME OUT OF THAT ACTIVITY. I ALSO EXPECT THAT FROM SONG QIAN'S DISSERTATION WE MIGHT HAVE SOME CONCLUSIONS WHEN THAT'S COMPLETED. Q. OKAY. WHICH PARTICULAR AREAS DO YOU ANTICIPATE GETTING OR DEVELOPING OPINIONS AS A RESULT OF YOUR WORK WITH THE TOC? A. I THINK -- I DON'T KNOW AS I WILL HAVE OPINIONS. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 127 I HOPE THAT I WILL HAVE A SENSE OF THE SCIENCE IN SUPPORT OF VARIOUS OPTIONS THAT ARE CONSIDERED WITH REGARDS TO PHOSPHORUS LIMITS. Q. WHEN DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT YOU'LL HAVE THESE? A. I DON'T KNOW. UNFORTUNATELY, MY WORK WITH THE MONITORING SUBCOMMITTEE WAS INTENSE LAST MAY, JUNE, JULY, AND HAS PRETTY MUCH FADED SINCE THEN. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE YET. Q. OKAY. SO, ASSUMING THAT THAT STARTS AGAIN, AND ASSUMING YOU'RE INVOLVED, YOU WOULD EXPECT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE TO HAVE SOME--- A. SENSE OF THE SCIENCE IN SUPPORT OF VARIOUS OPTIONS. Q. AS OPPOSED TO OPINIONS ABOUT? A. OPINIONS TO ME MEAN THAT I HAVE A PREFERENCE OR A STRATEGY. Q. RIGHT. AND YOU DON'T EXPECT THAT? A. I DON'T THINK THAT'S MY ROLE. Q. OKAY. NOW, WHAT ABOUT SONG'S WORK? A. SAME THING WITH SONG'S WORK. I EXPECT THAT FROM SONG'S WORK, WHICH WILL BE A DISSERTATION, IN MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF A DOCTORAL DISSERTATION, THAT FROM THAT WE WILL DRAW CONCLUSIONS ON THE NATURE OF THE SCIENCE IN DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 128 SUPPORT OF STA DESIGN. Q. HE'S GOING TO BE LOOKING AT WCA-2A? A. HE'S GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THOSE DATA, YEAH. Q. AND YOU EXPECT THAT FROM THAT DATA, HE WILL BE ABLE TO REACH CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE STA DESIGN? A. I MENTIONED ALSO THAT HE'LL BE LOOKING AT THE NORTH AMERICAN--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---DATABASE. Q. OKAY. AND THEN THOSE TWO -- LOOKING AT THAT DATA, YOU BELIEVE HE WILL BE ABLE TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS THAT WILL BE HELPFUL IN DESIGNING THE STA'S? A. I HOPE THAT HE WILL BE ABLE TO SAY "WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PHOSPHORUS INPUT AND PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION LEAVING A WETLAND AND OTHER FEATURES OF THE WETLAND SUCH AS DESIGN OR DEPTH AND HYDRAULICS" THAT WILL BE USEFUL IN DESIGNING WETLANDS FOR NUTRIENT TRAPS. Q. OKAY. AND YOU KNOW WHERE THE STA'S ARE PROPOSED TO BE BUILT? A. I COULDN'T POINT IT OUT, NO. I KNEW AT ONE TIME. Q. OKAY. IT'S IN THE FARMING AREA? A. YEAH. Q. YOU KNEW THAT, DIDN'T YOU? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 129 A. IF YOU HAD ASKED ME, I WOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT THAT WAS NECESSARILY THE CASE, BUT IT SEEMS REASONABLE WITH WHAT I UNDERSTOOD THE QUOTE. Q. OKAY. AND SO YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN USE THE WCA-2A DATA TO ASSIST IN DESIGNING STA'S THAT WILL BE BUILT IN THE EPA -- I'M SORRY. IN THE AGRICULTURAL AREA? A. LET ME REPEAT. I HOPE THAT WITH THE WCA-2A DATA AND THE NORTH AMERICAN DATA, WE WILL UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE INFLOW CONCENTRATION OF PHOSPHORUS OR THE LOANING OF PHOSPHORUS AND THE OUTFLOW CONCENTRATION AND OTHER FACTORS THAT ARE IMPORTANT, SUCH AS DEPTH AND HYDRAULICS. Q. FOR PURPOSES OF DESIGNING STA'S? A. FOR PROVIDING GUIDANCE IN UNDERSTANDING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF WETLANDS AS PHOSPHORUS OR AS NUTRIENT TRAPS. Q. WELL, WHERE DO STA'S COME IN, THE ONES THAT ARE PROPOSED IN THE SWIM PLAN? A. I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF THE STA'S. I THINK OF STA'S AS WETLANDS DESIGNED TO OR INTENDED TO TRAP NUTRIENTS. Q. SO WHAT I'M TRYING TO DISCOVER IS -- STRIKE THAT. YOU'RE AWARE THAT THIS PROCEEDING THAT WE'RE IN IS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 130 A CHALLENGE TO THE SWIM PLAN THAT PROPOSES TO BUILD STA'S AT SPECIFIC SITES IN THE AGRICULTURAL AREA? A. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE DETAILS OF THE CHALLENGE. Q. WELL, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE CHALLENGE INVOLVES WHAT I JUST SAID, THAT THE SWIM PLAN INVOLVES WHAT I JUST SAID? A. I'M AWARE THAT THAT'S AN ASPECT OF IT, YEAH. Q. OKAY. AND SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. YOU'RE NOT -- YOU DON'T EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO OFFER OPINIONS WITH REGARDS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE STA'S WILL WORK, FOR INSTANCE? A. I DON'T THINK IT'S MY JOB TO OFFER OPINIONS AS TO WHETHER SOMETHING LIKE THAT WILL WORK. Q. OKAY. AND ASSUMING THAT -- IS IT LIKELY THAT SONG'S DISSERTATION WILL BE APPROVED, I THINK YOU SAID THE END OF THE SUMMER? A. HIS PROPOSAL. Q. HIS PROPOSAL? A. YES. Q. AND--- A. I HOPE SO, HE'S A GOOD STUDENT. Q. AND ASSUMING THAT IT'S THE BEST CASE, BEST CRACK, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 131 ASSUMING IT'S APPROVED, WHEN WOULD IT BE COMPLETED? A. END OF CALENDAR YEAR '94. Q. OKAY. NOW, IT WAS ALSO REPRESENTED BY THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE OPINIONS IN THESE AREAS FINALIZED BY FEBRUARY 28, 1993. I ASSUME THAT'S INACCURATE. A. YES. Q. OKAY. NOW, YOU'VE ALSO -- STRIKE THAT. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU DON'T PLAN TO DO ANYTHING INDEPENDENTLY, YOURSELF, IN REACHING ANY OF THESE CONCLUSIONS, BUT RATHER YOU'RE GOING TO RELY ON THE WORK THAT SONG DOES? A. I'M GOING TO WORK WITH SONG AS HIS ADVISOR. Q. OKAY. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANY INDEPENDENT WORK YOURSELF? A. I DON'T KNOW. I'M ON SABBATICAL NEXT YEAR, AND WILL BE DOING STATISTICAL ANALYSIS LIKE WHAT HE DOES, AND IT MAY BE THAT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HE DOES, I WILL BE WORKING ALONG SIDE HIM. I HAVEN'T DECIDED THAT YET. Q. YOU HAVE NO PLANS AT THIS POINT TO DO THAT? A. I HAVE NO PLANS EITHER WAY. Q. OKAY. WHEN A STUDENT DOES A DISSERTATION THOUGH, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 132 IS IT UNDERSTOOD THAT IT'S PRINCIPALLY THEIR WORK? A. IT VARIES. Q. IN THIS CASE. A. IN THIS CASE, THE WORK WILL BE HIS. HE WILL BE ABLE TO DESCRIBE IT THOROUGHLY AND DEFEND IT. MY PHILOSOPHY IS THAT I HAD BETTER BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME -- DESCRIBE IT, DEFINE IT, UNDERSTAND IT. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU WILL NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HE DOES? A. YES. Q. WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM DOING IT YOURSELF? A. I WON'T DO IT MYSELF. Q. OKAY. A. THAT'S CLEAR. Q. NOW, YOU'RE ALSO LISTED AS AN EXPERT BY THE COOPERATIVE. YOU'RE AWARE OF THAT? A. THAT'S THE GROUP -- YEAH. Q. MS. STINSON'S CLIENTS. A. YES, YES. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND I WANT TO GO OVER WHAT THEY'VE REPRESENTED THAT YOU'RE GOING TO TESTIFY REGARDING AND SO FORTH. MATHEMATICAL ANALYSIS OF PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE IN THE EPA AND WETLAND TREATMENT AREAS. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 133 A. I CAN TALK ABOUT STATISTICAL METHODS THAT COULD BE USED. Q. LET ME ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN. IT'S REPRESENTED THAT THE SUBJECT MATTER OF YOUR TESTIMONY -- IT'S NOT JUST STATISTICAL METHODS, IT'S THE SPECIFIC APPLICATION OF THOSE METHODS -- MATHEMATICAL ANALYSIS OF PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE IN THE EPA AND THE WETLAND TREATMENT AREAS. A. I CANNOT TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC ANALYSIS DONE ON THAT. Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS TO UNDERTAKE ANY WORK TO DEVELOP OPINIONS IN THAT AREA? A. NOT OPINIONS. I PLAN TO, THROUGH SONG, BE PART OF THE ANALYSIS. Q. OKAY. BUT NOW, HE'S NOT ANALYZING THE WETLAND TREATMENT AREAS? A. NO. YOU MAY HAVE TO DEFINE THE AREAS AND HELP ME OUT, BUT AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, HE'S GOING TO BE LOOKING AT WCA-2A DATA AND THE NORTH AMERICAN DATA SET. Q. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING WETLAND--- A. OKAY. Q. ---TREATMENT AREAS TO BE SYNONYMOUS WITH STA'S. A. THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL ENTITY OF AN STA? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 134 Q. YES. MR. REID: AM I INCORRECT, OR DO YOU KNOW? MS. STINSON: I DON'T KNOW. MR. REID: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) I DON'T KNOW OF ANYWHERE ELSE THAT THIS CASE INVOLVES ANY TREATMENT--- A. YEAH. Q. ---EXCEPT IN WHAT WE'RE CALLING STA'S. A. WE WILL TRY--- MR. FITZGERALD: I MAY BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING THAT WILL CLARIFY THAT IF COUNSEL WILL--- MR. REID: SURE. MR. FITZGERALD: ---A PRIOR ITERATION OF THE SWIM PLAN USED THE TERM WATER MANAGEMENT AREA. MR. REID: BUT THIS IS DIFFERENT. MR. McCAUGHAN: EXCUSE ME. THERE HAS BEEN TESTIMONY, I BELIEVE, IN OTHER DEPOSITIONS FROM VARIOUS SCIENTISTS, WHO, AS DR. RECKHOW HAS INDICATED, CONSIDER A WHOLE NATURAL AREA AS AN STA RATHER THAN -- AND I THINK A LOT OF IT'S -- A LOT OF THE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 135 DEPOSITIONS HAVE ALSO INDICATED THAT, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE SWIM PLAN, COMMON THINKING IS, FROM THE NON-SCIENCE PEOPLE, THAT AN STA IS AUTOMATICALLY SOMETHING THAT IS MANMADE, WHEREAS, I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF DISCUSSION THE OTHER WAY, SO THE TERMS ARE ALMOST INTERCHANGEABLE. WITNESS: UH-HUH (YES). Q. (BY MR. REID) WELL, JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, YOU TOLD ME A MINUTE AGO THAT YOU WEREN'T GOING TO BE -- I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU WEREN'T GOING TO BE GETTING INTO THE STA DESIGN AREA--- A. I'M--- Q. ---WITH SONG'S WORK. A. I'M INTERESTED IN, AS AN ADVISOR, IN SEEING A SUCCESSFUL DISSERTATION, AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT INVOLVES SPECIFIC DESIGN ACTIVITY. Q. OKAY. WELL, LET'S GO BACK TO THE QUESTION. DO YOU PLAN IN ANY WAY TO DEVELOP TESTIMONY REGARDING MATHEMATICAL ANALYSIS OF PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE IN THE EPA AND WETLAND TREATMENT AREAS? A. DO I PLAN TO DEVELOP THAT TESTIMONY--- Q. YES. A. ---AT SOME TIME? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 136 Q. YES. FOR THIS PROCEEDING. A. FOR THIS PROCEEDING REFERS TO WHAT TIME? Q. THE SWIM CHALLENGE. A. AND WHAT TIME PERIOD? Q. WELL, THAT'S SCHEDULED FOR TRIAL IN OCTOBER OF THIS YEAR. A. I CAN'T SAY WHERE WE WILL BE. IF WE HAVE SOMETHING THROUGH OUR WORK THAT MIGHT BE DISCUSSED, WE CAN. Q. WHO IS WE? A. SONG AND ME. Q. READ THIS SENTENCE. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE WORDS HERE. A. OKAY. Q. I WANT TO KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT THIS TOPIC RIGHT HERE, "SUBJECT MATTER OF EXPECTED TESTIMONY." I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE SUBSTANCE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I DON'T ANTICIPATE HAVING OPINIONS. I ANTICIPATE HAVING RESULTS OR SOME ANALYSIS OF THE DATA THAT WE CAN OBTAIN, WHICH RIGHT NOW IS THE WCA-2A AND THE NORTH AMERICAN DATA SET. Q. DO YOU INTEND TO TAKE THOSE SAME WORKS--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 137 A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---AND THUS APPLY IT TO THE STA'S PROPOSED IN THE SWIM PLAN, YOU WOULD GET THE SAME ANSWER? A. I DON'T EXPECT, BY THE END OF THE SUMMER, THAT WE WILL HAVE REACHED A POINT WHERE THE ANALYSIS THAT WE WILL DO WILL HAVE SUCH SUPPORT IN OUR MIND BY THE DATA AND THE SCIENCE THAT IT SHOULD BE USED FOR DESIGN PURPOSES. Q. SO, I THINK THE ANSWER IS, YOU WILL NOT HAVE OPINIONS BY OCTOBER OF THIS YEAR REGARDING THE STA'S THAT ARE PROPOSED IN THE SWIM PLAN? A. THE ANSWER, AGAIN -- I GUESS I'M FOCUSING ON THE WORD "OPINIONS" BECAUSE I DON'T THINK I GIVE OPINIONS--- Q. WELL--- A. ---I SUPPORT -- I SAY SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT THE SCIENCE HAS TO SAY, AND "OPINIONS" DOESN'T, TO ME, REFLECT WHAT WE'RE DOING AT THIS STAGE. I CAN SEE THAT AT VARIOUS STAGES OF THE WORK, WE MIGHT SAY THAT THE SCIENCE SUPPORTS THIS AS A MODEL OF HOW WETLANDS ARE TRAPPING NUTRIENTS. WHETHER THAT OCCURS BY THE END OF THE SUMMER, I JUST DON'T KNOW. Q. WHAT IS THE "THIS" THAT YOU MAKE REFERENCE TO, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 138 STA'S OR WCA-2A? A. I'M NOT THINKING OF SPECIFIC STRUCTURES. I'M THINKING OF MORE GENERALLY UNDERSTANDING, OR MORE GENERAL MODELS OR STATISTICAL MODELS DESCRIBING WETLANDS AS TRAPPERS OF PHOSPHORUS OR NITROGEN, AND NOT SPECIFIC TO STA. Q. OKAY. IT'S ALSO BEEN REPRESENTED THAT YOU HAVE NOT COMPLETED FORMULATING ALL OPINIONS WHICH MIGHT BE OFFERED AT FINAL HEARING. I THINK WE'D AGREE THAT'S TRUE. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. IN FACT, YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY OPINIONS, AS WE SIT HERE TODAY, THAT WOULD BE OFFERED AT FINAL HEARING, DO YOU? A. OR CONCLUSIONS. Q. EITHER ONE. A. YEAH. Q. AND IT SAYS THAT YOUR OPINIONS WILL BE FINALIZED AFTER ANALYSIS OF DATA TO BE RECEIVED THROUGH DISCOVERY. IS THAT TRUE? MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO FORM. I'M NOT SURE THE WITNESS HAS AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE TECHNICAL TERMS--- Q. (BY MR. REID) DISCOVERY MEANS PRODUCING DOCUMENTS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 139 FROM THE OTHER SIDE, AND HEARING TESTIMONY FROM THE OTHER SIDE. A. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT AGAIN, PLEASE? Q. YEAH. THIS SAYS THAT YOUR OPINIONS, SUCH OPINIONS WILL BE FINALIZED AFTER ANALYSIS OF DATA TO BE RECEIVED THROUGH DISCOVERY. A. OUR CONCLUSIONS WILL BE FINALIZED AFTER ANALYSIS OF DATA. Q. OKAY. AND LET ME KEEP READING. IT SAYS -- IT CONTINUES "INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO DATA REVIEWED AND/OR RELIED UPON BY WILLIAM WALKER, ROBERT KADLEC, AND ANY ADDITIONAL WITNESSES IDENTIFIED BY RESPONDENTS AND ALIGNED INTERVENORS IN FORMULATING OPINIONS AND PREPARING REPORTS ON THE SUBJECT MATTER INDICATED ABOVE." AND I HAD BETTER LET YOU READ THAT. I WANT YOU TO LET ME KNOW IF THAT'S AN ACCURATE STATEMENT OF WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE DOING IN TERMS OF THE PRECEDING PAGE. A. OKAY. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. WE WILL BE USING OTHERS' DATA -- DATA OBTAINED BY OR ANALYZED BY OTHER INDIVIDUALS, SUCH AS BILL WALKER AND KADLEC. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 140 Q. SO, IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT YOUR ULTIMATE CONCLUSIONS AND OPINIONS, IN PART, ARE GOING TO BE BASED UPON AN ANALYSIS OF THE WORK THAT WALKER AND KADLEC ARE DOING IN THIS CASE? A. IT IS FAIR TO SAY THAT AS A SCIENTIST, I WILL BE LOOKING AT WHAT OTHERS HAVE DONE. Q. AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE REPORTS THAT WE MARKED AS EXHIBITS 3 AND 4? A. NOW, WHICH ARE THOSE? Q. THE TWO WALKER REPORTS. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. NO. WITH REGARDS TO THIS, I DON'T SEE WHY THIS IS GOING TO--- Q. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THAT AT ALL--- A. NO. Q. ---IN THE CASE? MR. RUSSELL: THAT'S EXHIBIT 3? MS. STINSON: EXCUSE ME. LET'S IDENTIFY WHAT HE REFERRED TO AS "THIS," THAT HE IS NOT GOING TO RELY ON. MR. REID: OKAY, I WILL. Q. (BY MR. REID) JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, IN YOUR INTERROGATORY RESPONSE THAT WAS FILED BY COUNSEL, THAT MAKES REFERENCE TO YOUR ANALYZING DATA OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 141 WILLIAM WALKER, YOU WILL NOT BE LOOKING AT EXHIBIT 3, "WATER QUALITY TRENDS AT INFLOWS TO EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK"? A. THAT'S CORRECT, WE WILL NOT BE LOOKING AT THAT. Q. AND YOU WILL, THEREFORE, HAVE NO OPINIONS REGARDING THE WORK THAT BILL WALKER DID IN PREPARING EXHIBIT 3? A. NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE WORK THAT I AM DOING WITH SONG. Q. I'M NOT ASKING ABOUT THE WORK WITH SONG. I'M ASKING ABOUT IN THIS PROCEEDING FOR ANY PURPOSE. A. IF THIS PROCEEDING IS NOT DEALING WITH TREND ANALYSIS, THAT DOESN'T RELATE TO THE WORK. Q. OKAY. GO AHEAD. YOU GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THAT OTHER WORK BY WALKER? A. YES. Q. ALL RIGHT. IT SAYS IN THIS, THAT AMONG OTHER THINGS YOU'RE GOING TO BE RELYING UPON AVAILABLE LITERATURE. WHAT LITERATURE ARE YOU MAKING REFERENCE TO? A. LITERATURE SUCH AS THAT WALKER REPORT WE JUST IDENTIFIED, AND--- MS. STINSON: WHICH IS--- Q. (BY MR. REID) EXHIBIT 4? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 142 A. EXHIBIT 4. AND THE KADLEC REPORT ON THE NORTH AMERICAN DATA SET. OTHER LITERATURE THAT WE IDENTIFY, SONG IN PARTICULAR IDENTIFIES, ON WETLANDS AND THEIR EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS AS NUTRIENT TRAPS, AND LITERATURE AND STATISTICAL ANALYSIS THAT DESCRIBES STATISTICAL METHODS. Q. NOW, THE WORK THAT SONG IS GOING TO BE DOING IS GOING TO RELATE TO HOW PHOSPHORUS IS ACTED UPON OR HOW PHOSPHORUS IS AFFECTED IN WETLANDS, SPECIFICALLY, WCA-2A. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. HAVE YOU BEEN ASKED TO DEVELOP ANY OPINIONS REGARDING ANY TREND ANALYSIS THAT WAS DONE BY ANYBODY CONCERNING EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK? A. AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, I WAS ASKED TO REVIEW THAT REPORT OF BILL WALKER. Q. AND AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY, YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF OFFERING ANY TESTIMONY IN THESE PROCEEDINGS CONCERNING TREND ANALYSIS? A. I DO NOT. Q. OKAY. I WANT TO START LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE DOCUMENTS JUST IN GENERAL, AND THEN WE'LL TALK MORE SPECIFICALLY LATER. MR. REID: MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST GIVE ME DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 143 YOUR STICKERS AND -- YOU'VE GOT THEM ALREADY NUMBERED -- AND I'LL JUST--- (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 5 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY. I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 5, WHICH IS AN ARTICLE BY YOU IN DECEMBER OF 1991, "NONPARAMETRIC AND ROBUST METHODS" ETCETERA. YOU'VE SEEN THAT BEFORE, OBVIOUSLY? A. YES. Q. OKAY. WHY WAS THAT IN YOUR FILE? A. BECAUSE THE METHODS OF SMOOTHING, DATA SMOOTHING, ARE CENTRAL TO WHAT SONG'S GOING TO USE. Q. OKAY. SO THIS PIECE SPECIFICALLY DEALS WITH THE WORK THAT SONG'S GOING TO DO? A. YES. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 6 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 6. IT'S AN ARTICLE BY PATRICK OF OCTOBER '92. A. YEAH. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 144 Q. TELL ME WHY THAT'S IN YOUR FILE. A. THAT'S IN MY FILE BECAUSE IT WAS IN MY STACK OF PAPERS. I BELIEVE I RECEIVED IT AT THE MEETING I MENTIONED, IN THE FALL OF 1992, AND I HAVEN'T READ IT. Q. DO YOU INTEND TO READ IT? A. YES. Q. DOES IT RELATE TO WHAT SONG IS GOING TO DO? A. I THINK IT PROBABLY DOES. Q. OKAY. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 7 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. I SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 7, WHICH IS A FAX TO YOU FROM RON MUNSON. TELL ME WHY THAT'S IN YOUR FILE. A. THIS WAS A FAX THAT, AS I RECALL, FOLLOWED THE TELEPHONE CALL WHEN RON CALLED AND ASKED ABOUT OUR MODEL, AND I EXPRESSED SURPRISE THAT WE HAD A MODEL, AND TOLD HIM I DIDN'T THINK WE DID. AND SO MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT HE SENT THIS TO ME TO DESCRIBE WHAT HE REFERRED TO AS OUR MODEL, AND I TOLD HIM THAT WE HAD NO MODEL. THIS WAS PART OF SOME ANALYSIS WE WERE DOING. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 145 (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 8 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. EXHIBIT 8, WHICH IS A "PRELIMINARY APPLICATION OF THE EVERGLADES HYDROLOGIC/NUTRIENT BUDGET MODEL," WHO PREPARED THAT? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. IT CAME FROM TETRA TECH, AND I DON'T RECALL READING OR USING THIS, BUT IT--- Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY INTENTION OF USING IT? A. I WILL LOOK AT IT. Q. DOES IT RELATE TO WHAT SONG IS DOING? A. MAYBE. Q. HOW? A. IT CONCERNS THE SAME AREA. Q. WCA-2A YOU MEAN? A. YEAH. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 9 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. LOOKING AT EXHIBIT 9, WHICH IS A KBN DOCUMENT, "EVERGLADES SWIM PLAN MODEL DEVELOPMENT UPDATE," DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 146 WITH ATTACHMENTS. TELL ME WHY THAT'S IN YOUR FILE. A. IT'S THE SAME THING, IT LOOKS LIKE. IT HAS SOME OF THE SAME THINGS THAT PREVIOUS -- I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT -- THIS WAS SENT TO ME, AND MY RESPONSE IS THE SAME AS BEFORE. WE POSSIBLY MIGHT. WE CERTAINLY SHOULD LOOK AT IT, AND MAY USE IT. MR. FITZGERALD: CAN YOU JUST FLASH ME THE COVER OF THAT BECAUSE I'VE GOT TWO KBN DOCUMENTS, OR READ THE FIRST LINE? (THEREUPON, MR. REID SHOWS EXHIBIT 9 TO MR. FITZGERALD.) MR. FITZGERALD: THAT ONE, OKAY. THANK YOU. MR. REID: OKAY. LET'S MARK EXHIBIT 10 WHICH IS A JULY '92 KADLEC AND NEWMAN ARTICLE. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO ABOVE WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 10 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) WILL YOU BE RELYING ON THAT? A. YES. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 147 Q. OKAY. AND ARE THOSE YOUR HANDWRITTEN NOTES? A. YES. Q. OKAY. AND WHEN I SAY "YOU", I GUESS I MEAN SONG. A. YES, I UNDERSTAND. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 11 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) EXHIBIT 11, WHICH IS A QUALLS AND RICHARDSON ARTICLE. A. I HAVEN'T READ IT. WE WILL LOOK AT IT. WE MAY RELY ON IT. Q. WHY IS IT IN YOUR FOLDER, OR WHY IS THAT IN YOUR FILES? A. I DON'T KNOW. CURT MAY HAVE PASSED IT ON TO ME FOR SOME REASON. I DON'T RECALL. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 12 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 148 Q. (BY MR. REID) SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 12. THIS IS A DOCUMENT, LOOKS LIKE AN OVERHEAD OR SOMETHING, "RESEARCH IN SUPPORT OF STA DESIGN." HAVE YOU SEEN THAT BEFORE? A. I THINK THESE ARE THE FIGURES FROM WALKER'S PAPER, AND WE'RE LIKELY TO MAKE USE OF IT. Q. WHICH WALKER PAPER, THE TREND ANALYSIS? A. NO. Q. THE ENP? A. YEAH. THE ONE THAT I SAID OVER THERE THAT WE WOULD USE. Q. OKAY. THAT'S EXHIBIT 4 WHICH IS "REFINEMENTS TO PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE RELATIONSHIP". A. I THINK THAT THOSE FIGURES ARE THE SAME. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 13 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. OKAY. NOW WE'LL LOOK AT EXHIBIT NUMBER 13, WHICH IS A CRAFT AND RICHARDSON ARTICLE. A. I HAVEN'T READ IT. WE'LL PROBABLY USE IT. Q. OKAY. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 149 EXHIBIT NO. 14 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) EXHIBIT 14. LET'S IDENTIFY THE DATE OF THAT. A. THE DATE -- 1992. Q. OKAY. AND IT'S A PAPER BY? A. LOWE, L-O-W-E, ET AL. Q. OKAY. A. I FORGOT HOW I GOT THIS. I GUESS I'LL LOOK AT IT BECAUSE IT'S IN THAT STACK OF MATERIALS, BUT I DON'T RECALL THE SPECIFICS ON IT. Q. HOW WAS THIS STACK OF MATERIALS GENERATED? A. I HAVE AN OFFICE WITH A LOT OF ACTIVITIES GOING ON, AND I KEEP THINGS IN EITHER FILES OR STACKS ASSOCIATED WITH SUBJECT MATTER. AND SO, IF I FELT THINGS WOULD RELATE TO THIS WORK, I'VE ACCUMULATED THEM THERE. Q. OKAY. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 15 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) THIS IS AN ARTICLE, EXHIBIT 15, "EFFECTIVE PHOSPHORUS RETENTION IN WETLANDS, FACT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 150 OR FICTION." HAVE YOU SEEN THAT BEFORE? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. YES. Q. WHO'S THE AUTHOR? A. CURT RICHARDSON. HE MODIFIED A PAPER THAT SONG QIAN HAD DONE AS PART OF A COURSE, AND I READ THE PAPER THAT SONG DID. I HAVEN'T READ THIS MODIFICATION. AND WE'RE APT TO USE SOME OF THIS THINKING. Q. ARE ALL THE ATTACHMENTS TO THIS CLIPPED TOGETHER -- DO THEY GO WITH THE ARTICLE? A. LET ME SEE. I DIDN'T REALIZE--- (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. ---I THINK THEY DO. I THINK THESE ARE THE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS THAT SONG DID AS PART OF THE CLASS PROJECT, AND DATA LISTINGS. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 16 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. OKAY. LOOK AT EXHIBIT 16, WHICH APPEARS TO BE A SET OF CHARTS AND GRAPHS AND SO FORTH. ASK YOU IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY THAT? A. WELL, THIS, I THINK, IS THE NORTH AMERICAN DATA DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 151 SET OF KADLEC'S. Q. OKAY. DO YOU INTEND TO USE THAT? A. YEAH. Q. I THINK YOU SAID--- A. YEAH, YEAH. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 17 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. OKAY. EXHIBIT 17, WHICH IS A FAX FROM HOPPING BOYD, ATTACHED TO THAT IS A KBN "EVERGLADES SWIM PLAN REVIEW BIWEEKLY UPDATE." WHY IS THAT IN YOUR FILE? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. THEY'RE JUST -- I DON'T -- THEY SENT IT TO ME. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHY IT'S IN THERE. IT RELATES TO THAT TOPIC AREA. Q. OKAY. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 18 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) EXHIBIT 18, WHICH IS A LETTER OF 1990 FROM MIKE SOUKUP, S-O-U-K-U-P, TO PAUL DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 152 WHALEN, W-H-A-L-E-N. HAVE YOU SEEN THAT MATERIAL BEFORE? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I HAVEN'T READ THIS SPECIFIC PAPER. AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS HERE. IT TIES INTO SOME OF THE TREND ANALYSIS THAT BILL WALKER DID. I DON'T KNOW AS WE'LL USE THIS. I DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S IN THAT--- Q. (BY MR. REID) WELL NOW, YOU'RE NOT DOING TREND ANALYSIS, ARE YOU? A. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S WHY I SAID I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'LL USE THIS. Q. OKAY. A. YEAH. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 19 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. EXHIBIT 19, WHICH IS A PAPER BY SMITH, ET AL., "STUDY OF TRENDS IN TOTAL PHOSPHORUS." A. I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS CAME IN BECAUSE THIS IS RELATED TO THE SEASONAL KINDLES TEST THAT BILL WALKER USED IN THAT WORK, BUT AGAIN, WE'RE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 153 NOT DOING TREND ANALYSIS. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 20 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) ALL RIGHT. SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 20. CAN YOU TELL ME WHO WROTE THAT? A. THIS LOOKS LIKE SONG'S FIRST VERY EARLY ATTEMPT, APRIL '92, OF HIS RESEARCH PROPOSAL. Q. OKAY. THAT'S THE RESEARCH THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE DOING? A. IT'S BEEN MODIFIED SOMEWHAT SINCE THIS -- TALKS ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS HE'S GOING TO BE DOING, YES. Q. OKAY. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. WHAT NUMBER IS THAT, PLEASE? A. IT'S NUMBER 20. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 21 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) I'LL SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 21, WHICH IS "RESEARCH PROPOSAL ON PHOSPHORUS MODELING" BY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 154 SONG QIAN, DATED JUNE '92. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I THINK THIS JUST DESCRIBES SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HE'S DOING FOR THE DISSERTATION. IT'S NOT QUITE ALONG THE LINES OF WHERE I SEE IT HEADED. Q. (BY MR. REID) SO THAT'S NOT A WORKING VERSION OF IT? A. NO, IT ISN'T A WORKING VERSION. Q. I MAY HAVE SAID EXHIBIT 22. I MEANT EXHIBIT 21. A. 21. THAT'S CORRECT. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 22 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) NOW, I'LL SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 22, AND ASK IF YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT THAT IS. A. THIS LOOKS LIKE IT WAS WRITTEN BY SONG. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE ANOTHER EARLY VERSION OF THE PROPOSAL AND TIES IN TO SOME DEGREE WITH WHAT HE'S DOING, BUT IT'S AN EARLY VERSION. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 23 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 155 Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY. I SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 23, AND ASK IF YOU'VE SEEN THAT? (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. YEAH. THIS IS SOME WORK THAT SONG HAD DONE IN USE OF SMOOTHING TECHNIQUES, OR LOOKING AT SOME OF THE DATA, WCA-2A. SO, THIS IS THE SORT OF WORK LEADING TO THE PROPOSAL. Q. ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE I'M MISSING SOME IN THIS VERSION. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A DIFFERENT -- CAN YOU RECALL LOOKING AT THAT PAGE? A. WITH THE SEVEN APPLICATION OF THE MODEL? Q. AND THEN THERE'S -- YEAH. LOOK AT THE NEXT PAGE AND SEE IF THAT SEEMS TO FOLLOW. A. NO, IT DOESN'T, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE'S ANYTHING MISSING--- Q. OKAY. A. ---THAT HE HAD DONE. I DON'T REMEMBER AN APPLICATION COMING OUT OF THIS. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 24 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) NOW, I WANT TO SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 24, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 156 WHICH ARE DOCUMENTS ON DUKE UNIVERSITY STATIONERY, DATED NOVEMBER 18, DECEMBER 2ND, AND JANUARY 22ND, ALL ENTITLED "BIWEEKLY PROGRESS REPORT." A. THAT'S RIGHT. Q. AND THEY ALL SEEM TO BE FROM YOU--- A. YEP. Q. ---TO CURT POLLMAN AND BILL GREEN? A. WELL, REMEMBER, I'M NOT A CONSULTANT ON THIS PROJECT. Q. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE--- A. WELL, I WANTED TO INDICATE THAT I KEEP MY CONSULTING BUSINESS SEPARATE. YOU MENTIONED DUKE UNIVERSITY STATIONERY. I'M DOING THIS WORK AS SONG'S ADVISOR AND IT MIGHT--- Q. OH. I THINK YOU'RE BEING DEFENSIVE. AND I WASN'T--- A. OKAY, OKAY. Q. I JUST IDENTIFIED IT BECAUSE IT WAS THERE. A. OKAY. Q. BUT I DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT IT. YOU'VE SEEN THOSE BEFORE? A. YES. Q. WHY, AS HIS ADVISOR -- STRIKE THAT. WHO'S CURT POLLMAN? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 157 A. CURT POLLMAN IS A CONSULTANT WITH KBN. Q. AND IS HE CONNECTED WITH DUKE UNIVERSITY SOMEHOW? A. NO. Q. THAT'S AN OUTSIDE FIRM? A. THAT'S AN OUTSIDE FIRM. Q. IS HE WORKING FOR DUKE UNIVERSITY? A. YEAH. HE WAS IN ON A MEETING THAT I MENTIONED WITH BILL GREEN AND RICK BURGESS LAST SUMMER. HE WAS ANOTHER PERSON. Q. AND IS HE CONNECTED IN ANY WAY WITH DUKE UNIVERSITY? A. NOT THAT I KNOW OF. Q. HAS HE GOT A CONTRACT WITH DUKE UNIVERSITY? A. NOT THAT I KNOW OF. Q. NOW, BILL GREEN'S THE ATTORNEY FOR THE COOPERATIVE. IS THAT RIGHT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. IS IT NORMAL THAT YOU WOULD BE SENDING REPORTS ON STUDENTS' PROGRESS TO OUTSIDE PEOPLE? A. IT'S NOT SOMETHING, UNLESS THEY REQUESTED IT. Q. CAN YOU THINK OF ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHERE YOU'VE DONE THAT, WITH ANY OF YOUR STUDENTS? A. WHERE I'VE SENT--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 158 Q. REGULAR REPORTS TO OUTSIDE THIRD PARTIES ABOUT THEIR PROGRESS TOWARD THEIR GRADUATE DEGREES ON DUKE UNIVERSITY STATIONERY? A. ON DUKE UNIVERSITY STATIONERY. IF I WAS -- IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, IF I WAS ACTING AS A FACULTY ADVISOR, I WOULD USE DUKE UNIVERSITY STATIONERY, AND THAT'S THE ROLE I WAS ASSUMING HERE. I CAN'T THINK OF ANOTHER SITUATION WHERE I HAVE -- WELL, FOR EPA PROJECTS, PROGRESS REPORTS PROBABLY ARE A PART OF IT. I CAN'T THINK OFFHAND OF ANOTHER SITUATION. Q. OKAY. BUT THAT WOULD BE WHERE DUKE HAS SOME RELATIONSHIP WITH THE EPA, I ASSUME, A CONTRACT OR OTHERWISE? A. THAT'S CORRECT, YEAH. YEAH. Q. NOW, SO THIS IS JUST A REPORT THAT DUKE IS SENDING OUT--- A. THAT I'M SENDING OUT. Q. OKAY. THAT YOU'RE SENDING OUT ON DUKE STATIONERY--- A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. ---TO THESE TWO PEOPLE, WITH WHOM YOU HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP? A. I HAVE -- I AM NOT PAID AS A CONSULTANT BY THESE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 159 PEOPLE. Q. WITH WHOM YOU HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP. IS THAT ACCURATE OR NOT? MS. STINSON: OBJECTION TO FORM, OVERBROAD. WITNESS: WHAT'D YOU SAY? MR. REID: NOTHING. I MEAN, YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. MS. STINSON: I SAID OBJECT TO FORM OF THE QUESTION, OVERBROAD. THE QUESTION WAS OVERBROAD. BUT YOU CAN ANSWER IT, IF YOU CAN. WITNESS: OKAY. A. THERE HAS BEEN A GIFT TO THE WETLANDS CENTER IN SUPPORT OF SONG'S RESEARCH. Q. BY WHOM? A. BY THE SUGAR CANE COOPERATIVE. Q. WHEN WAS THAT GIFT GIVEN? A. THAT GIFT WAS GIVEN PERHAPS A YEAR AGO, AND ANOTHER GIFT WAS GIVEN TEN -- EIGHT, TEN MONTHS AGO. Q. OKAY. AND HOW MUCH WERE THOSE TWO GIFTS? A. I THINK EACH WAS TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS ($20,000.00). DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 160 Q. AND HOW MUCH IS SONG'S SUPPORT FROM THE WETLANDS CENTER TOTAL? A. I SUSPECT HE'S GETTING SOMETHING ON THE ORDER OF SIXTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS ($16,000.00). Q. AND WHO GETS THE REST OF THAT GIFT THAT WAS GIVEN IN SUPPORT OF HIS WORK? A. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE USED WITH ANY OTHER MONEY ON THE FIRST GIFT. THAT'S A GIFT OR A CODE THAT CURT RICHARDSON IS HANDLING. AS FAR AS THE SECOND GIFT--- Q. WELL, WAIT. EXCUSE ME. LET ME INTERRUPT. WHAT YOU JUST SAID DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME AT ALL, SO WOULD YOU MIND--- A. SURE. Q. YOU WANT TO HEAR THAT ANSWER BACK? A. WELL, I CAN RESTATE IT. I DON'T KNOW--- Q. MY QUESTION WAS, SONG IS GETTING SIXTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS ($16,000.00). YOU TOLD ME THERE'S FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS ($40,000.00) AS A GIFT FROM THE COOPERATIVE TO SUPPORT HIS WORK. MY QUESTION IS, WHO'S GETTING THE REMAINING TWENTY-FOUR THOUSAND ($24,000.00)? A. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE'S GETTING THE REMAINING TWENTY-FOUR THOUSAND ($24,000.00). I KNOW SOME OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 161 THAT MONEY HAS BEEN USED TO PURCHASE COMPUTERS FOR GENERAL GRADUATE STUDENT USE, AND SONG'S BEEN A PRETTY HEAVY USER OF THOSE COMPUTERS. Q. OKAY. SO DUKE IS USING IT, IN OTHER WORDS? A. DUKE'S USING IT. Q. OKAY. AND YOU WERE SENDING BIWEEKLY REPORTS TO THE LAWYER FOR THE COOPERATIVE, WHO'S THE GIFT GIVER IN THIS CASE? A. YES. Q. AND TO SOME THIRD PARTY OUTSIDE CONSULTANT THAT THE COOPERATIVE IS USING? A. YES. Q. AND THAT'S WHAT THEY REQUIRE AS A CONDITION FOR THIS GIFT? A. THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY REQUIRED AS A CONDITION. THAT'S WHAT THEY REQUESTED. Q. OKAY. OKAY. AND WHERE WOULD THE DOCUMENTATION BE ABOUT THIS GIFT? A. I SUSPECT IT'S IN THE WETLAND CENTER FILES. MS. STINSON: IT'S 4:00. MR. REID: OKAY. WE'LL PICK IT UP TOMORROW. MR. STINSON: DO YOU WANT GO ON WITH THE -- HE'S AVAILABLE FROM 5:30 TO 7:00 DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 162 THIS EVENING. MR. REID: DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. MS. STINSON: HE'S AVAILABLE FROM 5:30 TO 7:00 THIS EVENING, IF YOU'D LIKE TO PROCEED THEN. MR. REID: WELL, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE WORTHWHILE TO GO AWAY FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF AND COME BACK FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF, SO WE CAN START IN THE MORNING AT EIGHT O'CLOCK. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) MS. STINSON: WELL, LET ME PUT ONE THING ON THE RECORD FIRST. I DID WRITE A LETTER TO COUNSEL SUGGESTING THAT THIS DEPOSITION BE TAKEN LATER, THAT DR. RECKHOW HAD NOT FORMULATED ANY OPINIONS. IT WAS DECIDED BY COUNSEL FOR SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT TO PROCEED ANYWAY. WE HAVE AGREED TO DO THAT, AND HAVE AGREED, UNCONDITIONALLY, IN ANY EVENT, TO PRODUCE HIM AGAIN LATER. GIVEN THAT, I DON'T THINK THERE SHOULD BE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 163 ANY CONCERN WITH RESPECT TO THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THIS. THERE'S NO NEED TO KEEP IT OPEN, SO WE WON'T OBJECT TO A CONTINUATION. WE'RE NOT OBJECTING TO A CONTINUATION OF THIS AT SOME LATER DATE. AND IT WILL CLEARLY HAVE TO BE TAKEN AT A LATER DATE ADDITIONALLY ANYWAY. MR. REID: WELL, LET ME JUST SAY I DID GET THE LETTER TELLING ME THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE OPINIONS. I REALIZE FROM TODAY THAT HE'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAVE OPINIONS UNTIL THE END OF 1994, SO I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF SUPERFLUOUS TO SAY HE DOESN'T HAVE OPINIONS TODAY, TAKE IT LATER, BECAUSE I ASSUME HE WOULD HAVE THE SAME TESTIMONY. BUT IN THE LETTER, I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT HIS SCHEDULE, HIS CLASS, HIS NECESSITY FOR BREAKING UP AND COMING BACK. SO, RIGHT, YOU SENT ME A LETTER BUT YOU DIDN'T MENTION ANY OF THESE OTHER PROBLEMS. I THOUGHT WE'D HAVE TWO FULL DAYS OF DEPOSITION. AND WE HAVE MAYBE A DAY. AND THE PROBLEM IS, WE HAVE TO PAY TO COME UP HERE, AND WE HAVE TO PAY TO COME UP HERE AGAIN, YOU KNOW. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 164 MR. FITZGERALD: I WOULD ALSO VOICE SOME OF THE SAME CONCERNS. I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THE UNITED STATES CROSS-NOTICED THIS WITNESS AND WAS NOT CONSULTED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CANCELLING, ALTHOUGH I GOT A COPY OF THE LETTER. WE WOULD NOT HAVE AGREED TO IT, EVEN IF THE DISTRICT HAD, SO THE DEPO WOULD HAVE GONE FORTH. I THINK THE WITNESS HAS BEEN VERY FRANK AND EXHIBITED GREAT CANDOR IN SUGGESTING THAT HE DOESN'T SEE HIS ROLE AS FORMULATING OPINIONS IN MANY OF THE AREAS FOR WHICH HE'S BEEN DESIGNATED AS A WITNESS. I UNDERSTAND THAT HE WAS NOT CONSULTED ABOUT THAT, AND I CERTAINLY DON'T THINK YOU HOLD THAT AGAINST THE WITNESS; THAT AN ATTORNEY DESIGNATES HIM WITHOUT CONSULTATION. I AM CONCERNED OVER THE BELATED ADVICE OF DIFFICULTIES WITH THE SCHEDULED TIME. THIS HAS LONG BEEN NOTICED, WELL WITHIN THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE DISCOVERING SCHEDULING ORDER. ALTHOUGH I REPRESENT A PUBLIC CLIENT, I HAVE AN EQUAL OBLIGATION TO INSURE THAT THE MONEY AND TIME IS NOT SQUANDERED. IT APPEARS TO ME, BASED DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 165 ON THE WITNESS' TESTIMONY, THAT WE MIGHT WELL HAVE FINISHED HIS DEPOSITION WITH NO NECESSITY OF RETURNING IN THE FUTURE IF, IN FACT, AS WE EXPECT THE CASE PROCEEDS TO HEARING ON THE CURRENT SCHEDULE. THAT BEING THE CASE, I DON'T FEEL THAT THE OFFER, WHICH I ACKNOWLEDGED, TO HAVE A FOLLOW-UP DEPOSITION REALLY ANSWERS THE PROBLEM. IF I, IN FACT, AM NOT AFFORDED AN OPPORTUNITY TO INQUIRE ADEQUATELY AT THIS SESSION, WE END UP HAVING TO COME BACK AGAIN, EVEN THOUGH THERE MAY BE NO OPINIONS THEN EITHER, AND I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. SO, I'M GOING TO OBJECT FOR THE RECORD THAT WE'RE DOING THIS, AND WE RESERVE ALL OF OUR RIGHTS. MR. RUSSELL: WELL, YOU'VE GOT AN HOUR AND A HALF. MS. STINSON: YEAH. I -- WELL, I ALSO -- WELL, I OFFERED AN ADDITIONAL HOUR THIS MORNING BEFORE HIS CLASS AND AN ADDITIONAL HOUR AND A HALF AFTER HIS MEETING--- MR. REID: WAIT, WAIT, THAT'S--- MS. STINSON: ---BUT I DON'T BELIEVE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 166 THIS HAS TO BE ON THE RECORD. MR. REID: WAIT. THAT'S A PURITAN OFFER AT BEST TO SAY THAT YOU GAVE THE OFFER FOR ME TO TAKE AN HOUR AND A HALF BREAK AND THEN TO COME BACK FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF. THAT DOESN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION AT ALL. AND I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHEN DID HE KNOW ABOUT HIS CLASS SCHEDULE? MS. STINSON: I CAN ONLY TELL YOU WHEN I KNEW ABOUT HIS CLASS SCHEDULE. MR. REID: I ASSUME HE MUST NOT HAVE KNOWN ABOUT HIS CLASS SCHEDULE UNTIL TWO DAYS AGO, AND THAT'S REALLY SURPRISING AND IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE. MR. FITZGERALD: YES. MR. REID: OKAY, WE'LL SEE YOU IN THE MORNING. MS. STINSON: EIGHT O'CLOCK? MR. REID: YES. ------------------------------------------------------- (THEREUPON, THIS PORTION OF THE DEPOSITION OF DR. RECKHOW WAS RECESSED AT 4:02 P.M., TO BE RESUMED APRIL 9, 1993, AT 8:00 A.M.) ------------------------------------------------------- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 167 THE FOLLOWING PORTION OF THE DEPOSITION OF DR. KENNETH HOWLAND RECKHOW WAS TAKEN ON THE 9TH DAY OF APRIL, 1993, BEGINNING AT OR AROUND 8:03 A.M. IN THE HILTON HOTEL, 3800 HILLSBOROUGH ROAD, THE EXECUTIVE BOARDROOM, DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA, AND WAS REPORTED BY PAMELA S. LILES, A NOTARY PUBLIC. - - - - - - - - - - EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. DR. RECKHOW, DID YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS YOUR -- THE CASE OR YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY SINCE WE WERE LAST TOGETHER? A. LET ME THINK. CURT RICHARDSON CALLED ME LAST NIGHT. MS. STINSON: EXCUSE ME. LET ME INTERRUPT FOR A SECOND. I WOULD LIKE TO GET SOMETHING ON THE RECORD BEFORE WE PROCEED WITH THE DEPOSITION REGARDING SCHEDULING. MR. REID: YOU'RE NOT CHANGING IT AGAIN, ARE YOU? MS. STINSON: NO. THOUGH I WILL PROPOSE SOMETHING. AND, GENERALLY, I WOULDN'T FEEL THE NEED TO PUT THIS ON THE RECORD AT A DEPOSITION, EXCEPT IF SOMETHING COMES UP WITH DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 168 THE HEARING OFFICER, I'M NOT LIKELY TO BE HERE TO DISCUSS IT WITH HIM, AND I WANTED THIS TO BE ON THE RECORD. I'LL MAKE THE STATEMENT AND THAT'S ALL I'LL HAVE TO SAY. FIRST, GIVEN THE ACADEMIC AFFILIATION OF MANY OF THE EXPERTS IN THIS CASE, COUNSEL HAVE GENERALLY AGREED TO, AND HAVE, IN FACT, WORKED AROUND THE TEACHING SCHEDULES, TAKING BREAKS FOR CLASSES SO THAT THE REQUEST YESTERDAY REGARDING THE CLASS WAS NOT UNUSUAL. IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, AS YOU HEARD FROM THE WITNESS YESTERDAY, DR. RECKHOW IS NOT EVEN A PRIVATELY RETAINED CONSULTANT, BUT IS HERE BECAUSE HIS WORK AT DUKE IS RELEVANT TO THE ISSUES, SO THAT I BELIEVE HIS ACADEMIC COMMITMENTS TAKE PRIORITY. YESTERDAY, GIVEN DR. RECKHOW'S COMMITMENTS, WE OFFERED AN HOUR BEFORE HIS MORNING CLASS, AND ANOTHER ONE AND A HALF HOURS AFTER HIS FOUR O'CLOCK COMMITMENT, WHICH YOU DECLINED TO UTILIZE. I MADE PLANE RESERVATIONS FOR MYSELF FOR MIDDAY TODAY, FRIDAY, BELIEVING, BASED ON MY NEARLY TWENTY YEARS OF LITIGATION EXPERIENCE, THAT GIVEN THE STATUS OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 169 DR. RECKHOW'S WORK IN THIS AREA, THAT THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME TO CONDUCT AN APPROPRIATE EXAMINATION. AND FINALLY, AS MENTIONED YESTERDAY, EVEN THOUGH WE SUGGESTED THAT THIS DEPOSITION BE POSTPONED, GIVEN THE PRELIMINARY NATURE OF THE WITNESS' WORK, WE AGREED BOTH TO PROCEED NOW AND THAT THE DEPOSITION WOULD BE HELD OPEN AND REDONE LATER SO THAT THERE IS NO NEED TO TRY TO LAY BLAME HERE IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO DEPOSE DR. RECKHOW AGAIN. IF, IN FACT, DR. RECKHOW DOES NOT FINALIZE HIS WORK ON WHICH HE WILL TESTIFY PRIOR TO THE END OF DISCOVERY WITHOUT SOME GOOD CAUSE, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING FROM LAST FRIDAY'S STATUS CONFERENCE THAT THE HEARING OFFICER WOULD NOT ALLOW HIM TO TESTIFY IN ANY EVENT. ANY CONCERN, THEREFORE, ABOUT NOT OBTAINING HIS RESULTS THROUGH DEPOSITION IS TAKEN CARE OF. THERE WERE SOME DISCUSSIONS YESTERDAY ABOUT POSSIBLY JUST CONCLUDING DR. RECKHOW'S DEPOSITION AND NOT NEEDING TO TAKE IT AGAIN, AND I WOULD PROPOSE THAT IF YOU CAN, IN FACT, DO THAT TODAY, FINALIZE IT, AND NOT HOLD IT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 170 OPEN, THAT I WOULD BE WILLING TO TRY TO CHANGE MY FLIGHT ARRANGEMENTS TO TAKE THE LAST FLIGHT OUT TODAY, WHICH IS AT SIX O'CLOCK. AND -- WITH THE AGREEMENT THAT IT WOULD BE CONCLUDED TODAY, AND THAT WE WOULD NOT AGREE TO HOLD IT OPEN. BUT WITHOUT THAT ASSURANCE, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO DRAG THINGS ON KNOWING THAT WE'VE AGREED TO RETURN. IF YOU WISH TO CONTINUE TO THE END OF THE DAY, IT WOULD BE WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE PURPOSE IS TO CONCLUDE THE DEPOSITION OBVIATING THE NEED TO RETURN. THAT'S ON THE RECORD, I WOULD -- YOU CAN--- MR. REID: WAIT. YOU KNOW, YESTER--- MS. STINSON: WAIT A MINUTE. MR. REID: WAIT. THAT'S REALLY AMAZING. I MEAN, I--- MS. STINSON: WAIT A MINUTE, BEN, I AM NOT FINISHED. MR. REID: ---I WENT OUT AND CHANGED -- I CHANGED FLIGHTS--- MS. STINSON: BEN, WAIT A MINUTE, I AM NOT FINISHED. MR. REID: THIS IS INCREDIBLE. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 171 MS. STINSON: I'M--- MR. REID: GO AHEAD, FINISH. MS. STINSON: ---MAKING THE PROPOSITION--- MR. REID: GO AHEAD, YEAH, SURE. MS. STINSON: ---BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY YESTERDAY, THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO CONCLUDE THIS DEPOSITION. I HAVE NOT CHANGED MY FLIGHT. I WOULD BE WILLING TO TRY TO DO THAT. I DON'T PLAN TO DO -- TO ARGUE FURTHER NOW; I'VE MADE MY STATEMENT. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN MAKE WHATEVER COMMENTS OR CHOICE YOU WISH TO ON THE RECORD. BUT THAT'S -- THAT'S MY VIEWS. MR. REID: NO, I PLANNED TO COME AND START THE DEPOSITION AT EIGHT O'CLOCK, AND I WENT TO GREAT LENGTHS TO CHANGE FLIGHT SCHEDULES LAST NIGHT, BASED ON WHAT YOU TOLD ME, AND CHANGED A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS, RESCHEDULED SOME THINGS BACK IN MIAMI. AND NOW, TODAY, SUDDENLY AT, YOU KNOW, TEN AFTER EIGHT, YOU TELL ME THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO RUSH BACK AT NOON TODAY. WELL, IT'S JUST TOO LATE. I MEAN, YOU JUST CAN'T KEEP CHANGING DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 172 AND UNCHANGING. Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY, DR. RECKHOW--- MR. REID: AND BY THE WAY, I WILL SAY THIS, I WANT TO UNDERSTAND. ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT HE'S NOT LISTED AS AN EXPERT BY THE CO-OP? MS. STINSON: NO, CERTAINLY NOT. MR. REID: OKAY. SO, HE'S HERE BECAUSE HE'S LISTED BY THE CO-OP, AND UNDER THE COURT RULE, HE WAS TO HAVE HIS OPINIONS BY -- WHAT'S THE DATE ORIGINALLY, MARCH--- MR. FITZGERALD: FEBRUARY 28TH. MR. REID: FEBRUARY 28TH. SO, YOU MADE IT SOUND AS IF HE'S JUST SHOWING UP BECAUSE HE WORKS AT DUKE, AND HE MIGHT BE WORKING ON SOME OF THIS STUFF. WE'RE TAKING HIS DEPOSITION BECAUSE IT WAS REPRESENTED TO US THAT HE HAD OPINIONS, AND THAT THOSE OPINIONS RELATE TO THE CASE. EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. OKAY, DR. RECKHOW. WHO HAVE YOU TALKED WITH SINCE WE WERE LAST TOGETHER? MR. McCAUGHAN: GO AHEAD, YOU CAN ANSWER. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 173 WITNESS: WELL, I'M NOT CLOSE ENOUGH TO THAT. (MOTIONING TO MICROPHONE.) MR. McCAUGHAN: OH, I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. A. AS I MENTIONED TO YOU A FEW MINUTES AGO, I SPOKE WITH CURT RICHARDSON ON THE PHONE. Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW WHY HE CALLED? A. HE CALLED TO ASK ME ABOUT A CANDIDATE THAT WE HAD VISITING THE DEPARTMENT YESTERDAY FOR A FACULTY POSITION. AND HE CALLED TO ASK ME ABOUT THE DEPOSITION. Q. OKAY. AND TELL ME WHAT YOU SAID TO HIM AND WHAT HE SAID TO YOU ABOUT THE DEPOSITION. A. I JUST TOLD HIM THAT IT WAS GOING ON. IT WASN'T THE MOST PLEASANT EXPERIENCE I'VE HAD. AND HE COMMENTED ON THAT, AND AGREED THAT THAT WAS HIS EXPERIENCE AS WELL. Q. DID YOU DISCUSS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE CASE WITH HIM? A. I DIDN'T. Q. DID HE DISCUSS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE CASE WITH YOU? A. HE DID NOT. Q. OR ANY OTHER TOPICS THAT CAME UP DURING THE DEPOSITION? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 174 A. I -- AS I RECALL, I THINK I BRIEFLY OUTLINED THE SORTS OF QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP, BUT WE DIDN'T DWELL ON ANY OF THEM. Q. WHAT DID YOU SAY TO HIM IN OUTLINING THE SORT OF QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP? A. I TOLD HIM THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT SONG'S WORK IS VERY PRELIMINARY. I TOLD HIM THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE TRENDS PAPER BY WALKER, BUT I MADE IT CLEAR THAT THAT DIDN'T RELATE TO WHAT WE WERE DOING. Q. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? A. I DON'T RECALL ANYTHING ELSE. Q. WHAT COMMENTS DID HE MAKE IN RESPONSE TO THOSE -- THAT OUTLINE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU GAVE HIM? A. I THINK -- I DON'T -- NOTHING IN PARTICULAR, HE JUST OBSERVED. Q. OKAY. NOW, WHEN WE LEFT YESTERDAY WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FUNDING FOR SONG'S WORK, AND JUST SO I'M CLEAR. WHEN I ASKED YOU QUESTIONS EARLIER ABOUT WHETHER YOU WERE BEING -- WHETHER YOU'D BEEN RETAINED, AND WHETHER YOU WERE BEING PAID FOR TESTIFYING AND WORK AND SO FORTH, AND YOU SAID, NO, TO ALL THOSE QUESTIONS. I TAKE IT THEN THAT YOU DON'T CONSIDER THE FORTY THOUSAND DOLLAR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 175 ($40,000.00) GIFT ANY CONSIDERATION FOR THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING? A. I DON'T -- EXCUSE ME. I'M NOT BEING PAID OUT OF -- ANY SALARY MONEY FROM THAT GIFT. Q. YOU PERSONALLY? A. I PERSONALLY. Q. ARE YOU GOING TO BE USING ANY OF THE THINGS THAT THE OTHER TWENTY-FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS ($24,000.00) WILL PURCHASE IN YOUR WORK? A. I PROBABLY WILL. IN FACT I WILL. WE PURCHASED TWO COMPUTERS, AND WHILE I HAVE NOT BEEN A MAJOR USER OF THE COMPUTERS, I HAVE USED ONE OF THE COMPUTERS. Q. NOW, IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE ISSUE THAT SONG IS GOING TO BE CONSIDERING IS A CRUCIAL ISSUE IN THIS LITIGATION REGARDING THE EVERGLADES? A. I GATHER THAT'S THE CASE. Q. AND DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IS A CONTESTED ISSUE? A. I NOW UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS. Q. AND THAT THE SUGAR INDUSTRY, IN GENERAL, THE CO-OP IN PARTICULAR, TAKES ONE VIEW OF THAT SUBJECT, AND THE STATE OF FLORIDA, DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS, SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT TAKES ANOTHER VIEW OF THAT ISSUE? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 176 A. THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. Q. WHEN DID THE DISCUSSION FIRST OCCUR CONCERNING THESE GIFTS TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE? A. PROBABLY IT WAS ABOUT A YEAR AGO. Q. WHO BROUGHT IT UP? A. EITHER SONG OR CURT RICHARDSON. Q. HOW WAS IT BROUGHT UP? A. THAT SONG'S Ph.D. DISSERTATION WORK COULD BE SUPPORTED THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. OKAY. AND ARE OTHER Ph.D. CANDIDATES -- OR DO OTHER Ph.D. CANDIDATES HAVE THEIR WORK SUPPORTED THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER? A. I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT'S THE CASE. Q. OKAY. TELL ME THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING SUPPORTED, THE GRADUATE STUDENTS, THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER. A. I CAN ONLY GUESS. I'M NOT -- THE ACTIVITY THAT I HAVE THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER IS THROUGH SONG. KIMBERLY PIESLAK IS A STUDENT, I THINK, IN THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. AND IS SHE A Ph.D. CANDIDATE? A. I BELIEVE SO. Q. AND HOW IS SHE SUPPORTED THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 177 A. I HAVE NO IDEA. Q. WELL, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW GRADUATE STUDENTS ARE SUPPORTED GENERALLY. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. WHEN A GRADUATE STUDENT COMES TO DUKE, A Ph.D. CANDIDATE, IN THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT, DO THEY TYPICALLY GET FELLOWSHIPS OF SOME SORT, GET MONEY OF SOME SORT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. HOW DO THEY USUALLY GET THAT MONEY? A. THE POLICY THAT THE SCHOOL HAS IS TO SUPPORT -- TO TRY TO SUPPORT INCOMING Ph.D. STUDENTS FOR THE FIRST THREE YEARS, WITH THE HOPE THAT A FACULTY MEMBER PICKS THE STUDENT UP ON A RESEARCH PROJECT, AND BEGINS TO PROVIDE FUNDING AS THE STUDENT MOVES OVER FROM COURSE WORK TO RESEARCH. Q. OKAY. AND SO WHAT FORM DOES THIS -- THESE FIRST THREE YEARS, WHAT FORM DOES THE SUPPORT TAKE? A. IT OFTEN TAKES THE FORM OF TUITION PLUS FUNDS FOR LIVING EXPENSES. Q. IS -- IT'S JUST A CHECK THEY GET EVERY MONTH OR SO? A. I THINK THAT'S THE CASE. Q. AND IS SET UP LIKE A SCHOLARSHIP, OR A LOAN, OR--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 178 A. IT'S -- IT'S -- IT WOULD BE A SCHOLARSHIP, OR A FELLOWSHIP, OR A -- AND POSSIBLY INVOLVE A TEACHING ASSISTANTSHIP. Q. DOES THIS MONEY GENERALLY COME OUT OF WHAT I'LL CALL GENERAL FUNDS OF WHATEVER SCHOOL IS SUPPORTING A GRADUATE STUDENT? A. YES. Q. AS OPPOSED TO SOME SPECIFIC FOUNDATION OR DONOR PAYING MONEY DIRECTLY TO THE STUDENT? A. I HAVE TO SAY I'M NOT THAT FAMILIAR WITH THE DETAILS. SOME OF THE MONEY COULD COME FROM A FOUNDATION TO THE SCHOOL, AND THEN BE GIVEN OVER AS FINANCIAL AID TO A Ph.D. STUDENT. Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY SITUATIONS WHERE THE MONEY IS EARMARKED FOR A PARTICULAR STUDENT FROM A FOUNDATION OR OTHER DONOR? A. YEAH. SOME STUDENTS APPLY FOR THEIR OWN MONEY, AND -- AND THEREFORE, THAT MONEY IS DIRECTED TO THEM. Q. NOW, WHAT -- WHERE IS SONG IN THIS PROCESS? A. SONG CAME TO DUKE, AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY, TO WORK WITH ME UNDER AN UNDERSTANDING THAT HE HAD HIS OWN FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO SUPPORT HIS ENTIRE GRADUATE EDUCATION. AND AFTER ARRIVING AND DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 179 FUNDING HIS WORK FOR A YEAR, HIS -- AS FAR AS I KNOW, HIS PERSONAL SUPPORT DISAPPEARED. WE PICKED HIM UP WITH THE MONEY FROM THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT, AS THE NATURE I JUST DESCRIBED, TO COVER A SECOND YEAR. AS HE BEGAN TO MOVE FROM COURSE WORK TO RESEARCH, HE NEEDED TO GAIN SUPPORT ON RESEARCH PROJECTS. AND THAT'S WHEN THE SUPPORT FROM THE WETLAND CENTER BEGAN. Q. HE'S IN WHAT YEAR, NOW? A. HE'S IN -- HE'S IN THE THIRD YEAR. Q. HE'S COMPLETING HIS COURSE WORK STILL? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. SO, THAT NEXT YEAR WILL BE HIS FIRST YEAR -- THE NEXT ACADEMIC YEAR WILL BE HIS FIRST YEAR IN THE -- RESEARCH? A. PRIMARILY INVOLVED WITH RESEARCH, THAT'S CORRECT. UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND THUS FAR, HAS HIS MONEY ALL COME FROM THIS GIFT THAT WE DISCUSSED? A. NO, AS -- WELL, AS I MENTIONED, THE FIRST YEAR HE PROVIDED HIS OWN SUPPORT. Q. I MEANT SINCE DUKE'S BEEN GIVING HIM MONEY. A. THE SECOND YEAR, AS I RECALL, HE WAS SUPPORTED THROUGH THE FINANCIAL AID FROM THE SCHOOL, AS I DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 180 MENTIONED. Q. THAT'S GENERIC AID. A. YES. HE ALSO HAS HAD TEACHING ASSISTANCE THROUGH THE SCHOOL. Q. AND THEN IN HIS THIRD YEAR, WHERE WE ARE NOW--- A. THIS -- THIS ACADEMIC YEAR HE HAS SUPPORTED HIMSELF WITH TEACHING ASSISTANCE AND THE FUNDS FROM THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. OKAY. NOW, LET'S GO BACK TO WHEN HE FIRST -- THIS ISSUE CAME UP OF THE GIFT. AND YOU DON'T REMEMBER WHETHER IT WAS SONG OR RICHARDSON THAT FIRST THOUGHT OF THIS? A. I'M SURE IT MUST -- IT WAS -- THE OPPORTUNITY WOULD HAVE BEEN INITIATED BY RICHARDSON, BECAUSE SONG -- SONG IS NOT IN A POSITION TO GO OUT AND MAKE THOSE CONTACTS. Q. AND WHEN DID YOU FIRST HEAR ABOUT THIS? A. I DON'T RECALL, IT WAS ROUGHLY A YEAR AGO. Q. AND IN WHAT STATE -- IN WHAT STAGE WAS THE PROCESS WHEN YOU FIRST HEARD ABOUT IT? A. BY PROCESS DO YOU MEAN--- Q. OF GETTING -- OF FINDING THE GIFT AND TURNING IT INTO MONEY FOR SONG. A. I DON'T REMEMBER. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 181 Q. WELL, TELL ME EVERYTHING YOU REMEMBER ABOUT HOW IT WAS CREATED; HOW IT CAME ABOUT. A. SONG WAS INTERESTED IN WETLANDS, AND AS I RECALL, HAD TALKED TO CURT RICHARDSON IN THE WETLAND CENTER ABOUT PROJECTS, AND MY VAGUE RECOLLECTION IS THAT THAT LED TO THIS OPPORTUNITY. Q. HAD HE COME UP WITH THE TOPIC AT THAT POINT? A. I THINK THAT HE HAD GENERALLY COME UP WITH THE TOPIC OF LOOKING AT WETLANDS TRAPPING OF NUTRIENTS AT THAT TIME. Q. WHERE WOULD THE PAPERWORK CONCERNING ALL THIS RESIDE? A. WHAT PAPERWORK? Q. CONCERNING THE GIFT AND THE NEGOTIATIONS THAT WENT ON AND SO FORTH. A. I ASSUME IT'S AT THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. WOULD IT BE IN DR. RICHARDSON'S FILES, FOR INSTANCE? A. PROBABLY. Q. NOW, YOU MENTIONED YESTERDAY, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SOME EXHIBITS, THAT YOU WERE SENDING BIWEEKLY REPORTS INTO POLLMAN AND GREEN. A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. AND YOU MENTIONED THAT THAT IS WHAT THEY ASKED DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 182 FOR. A. YES. Q. NOW, WHO IS THEY? A. POLLMAN AND GREEN. Q. NOW, HOW DID THEY GET INVOLVED IN THIS -- IN THE LOOP OF THIS PARTICULAR GRANT OR GIFT? A. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY ARE REPRESENTING THE INDIVIDUALS WHO PROVIDED THE GIFT TO THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. IN THE LITIGATION? A. UH-HUH (YES). YES. Q. OKAY. WHEN DID IT FIRST COME TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT THIS GIFT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH LITIGATION? A. I -- I -- I CAN'T SAY. I GUESS IT WAS MY ASSUMPTION RIGHT FROM THE START THAT, IF THERE WAS SUPPORT OF THIS NATURE CONCERNING WETLANDS TRAPPING OF NUTRIENTS, THAT IT LIKELY HAD SOME TIE-IN WITH LEGAL BATTLES. Q. HOW WERE YOU ADVISED TO SEND BIWEEKLY REPORTS? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN HOW AM I ADVISED? Q. WELL, WAS THERE A DOCUMENT, AN AGREEMENT, OR--- A. NO, I WAS JUST ASKED. Q. BY WHOM? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 183 A. I THINK IT WAS BY CURT POLLMAN. Q. AND DID THAT SEEM UNUSUAL TO YOU? A. ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT SONG WAS SO EARLY IN THE WORK THAT I DIDN'T FEEL THERE WAS MUCH TO REPORT ON AN EVERY-OTHER-WEEK BASIS. Q. NOW, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER GRADUATE STUDENTS WHO ARE BEING FUNDED BY GRANTS FROM PARTIES WHO ARE IN LITIGATION? A. NO. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER GRADUATE STUDENTS TO WHOM YOU REPORT -- WHOSE PROGRESS YOU REPORT TO LAWYERS, OR TO OTHER CONSULTANTS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN LITIGATION? A. NO. Q. WHEN DID YOU START SENDING IN BIWEEKLY REPORTS? A. AS I RECALL, IT WAS LAST FALL. Q. ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU DO IT BIWEEKLY? A. NO. Q. HOW MANY DID YOU SEND IN? A. I THINK ABOUT THREE. Q. SO, THE ONES WE HAVE HERE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT YOU'VE EVER SENT IN? A. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THEY ARE. Q. NOW, WHY DID YOU NOT SEND THEM IN BIWEEKLY? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 184 A. I HAD AGREED TO DO THIS VOLUNTARILY, AND I AGREED IN GOOD FAITH, TO DO IT. I DIDN'T KEEP IT ON MY AGENDA TO DO, AND AS THERE'S NOT PROGRESS ON AN EVERY OTHER WEEK BASIS, I JUST DIDN'T DO IT. Q. WELL, I'M CONFUSED. YOU SAY YOU AGREED TO DO THIS VOLUNTARILY. I THOUGHT YOU BEFORE TOLD ME THAT YOU'D AGREED TO DO THIS BECAUSE IT WAS A REQUIREMENT OF THE GIFT--- A. I NEVER SAID THAT. Q. ---THEY ASKED FOR IT. A. I NEVER SAID THAT. Q. I THOUGHT YOU TOLD ME THAT THE COOPERATIVE ASKED FOR THESE REPORTS. A. THEY ASKED. THAT'S RIGHT, THEY ASKED. Q. AND YOU DIDN'T CONSIDER IT WAS A REQUIREMENT OF THE GIFT? A. NO. Q. WHAT OTHER REQUIREMENTS OF THE GIFT ARE THERE? A. I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS A REQUIREMENT. YOU SAID WHAT OTHER REQUIREMENTS. I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS A REQUIREMENT. I DON'T SEE ANY REQUIREMENTS OF THE GIFT. Q. WAS THIS GIFT -- WAS THERE ANY DOCUMENTATION CONCERNING THIS GIFT THAT YOU'VE SEEN? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 185 A. I'M SORRY, SAY THAT AGAIN. Q. WAS THERE ANY DOCUMENTATION ABOUT THIS GIFT THAT YOU'VE EVER SEEN? A. YEAH, I'VE SEEN LETTERS -- SHORT LETTERS ON THE NATURE OF A GIFT TO THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. OKAY. AND WHERE ARE THOSE LETTERS? A. I BELIEVE THEY'RE -- AS YOU ASKED BEFORE, AT THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. WHEN WAS IT DECIDED THAT YOU WOULD TESTIFY IN THE LITIGATION CONCERNING THE WORK BEING DONE BY SONG PURSUANT TO THE GIFT? A. I CAN'T REMEMBER. I THINK IT CAME UP SOME TIME AFTER LAST SUMMER. Q. HOW DID IT COME ABOUT THAT YOU WOULD TESTIFY BASED UPON HIS WORK? A. WELL -- GEE, I DON'T REMEMBER. I THINK IT WAS MY EXPECTATION THAT I WOULD ASSUME -- AS SONG IS A NATIVE OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA, AND IS NOT FAMILIAR WITH ACTIVITIES LIKE THIS, IT SEEMED INAPPROPRIATE THAT HE WOULD BE ASKED TO TESTIFY ON HIS WORK. SO, I WOULD, AS HIS ADVISER, ASSUME THAT ROLE. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OF THE OTHER FACULTY MEMBERS CONNECTED WITH THE WETLAND CENTER, WHO ARE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 186 TESTIFYING IN THIS CASE, ARE BEING PAID FOR THE WORK THEY'RE DOING RELATED TO THE LITIGATION? A. NO. Q. DO YOU CONSIDER THAT THIS GIFT IS ACTUALLY A PAYMENT FOR CONSULTING IN THE LITIGATION? A. NO. Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS GIFT IS AN UNRESTRICTED ELEEMOSYNARY GIFT BY SOMEBODY WHO IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH? A. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE--- Q. CHARITABLE. A. A CHARITABLE GIFT, BUT--- Q. BY SOMEBODY WHO CARES ABOUT RESEARCH. A. I BELIEVE THAT THE GIFT IS COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS A PERSPECTIVE ON THIS CASE. ON THE OTHER HAND, I LOOK AT IT THAT IT IS A GIFT IN SUPPORT OF RESEARCH, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TREATING IT AS. Q. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER GIFTS THAT SUPPORT RESEARCH ON DISPUTED ISSUES IN LITIGATION? A. NO. Q. NOW, YOU TOLD ME THAT YOU'D DONE A NUMBER OF OTHER CONSULTING JOBS. HAVE YOU EVER TESTIFIED BEFORE? A. NO. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY WHERE YOU EXPECT THAT YOU WILL DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 187 TESTIFY AT SOME POINT? A. NO. Q. IN ALL OF THE OTHER CONSULTING JOBS THAT YOU HAVE, EITHER THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER OR PRIVATELY, HAVE ANY OF THOSE BEEN STRUCTURED IN SUCH A WAY THAT A GIFT WAS GIVEN TO THE WETLAND CENTER FOR THE WORK THAT YOU WERE BEING ASKED TO DO AS A CONSULTANT? A. I HAVE NO CONSULTING THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. STRIKE THAT FROM THE QUESTION AND ANSWER IT, THEN, PLEASE. A. COULD REPHRASE -- STATE THE QUESTION, PLEASE? Q. YEAH. OF ALL OF THE CONSULTING THAT YOU HAVE DONE, HAVE YOU EVER HAD A SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE, INSTEAD OF PAYING YOU FOR CONSULTING MADE A GIFT TO THE UNIVERSITY; TO THE WETLAND CENTER? A. NO. Q. IF I WANTED TO SEE ALL OF THE RECORDS CONCERNING THE GIFTS, GRANTS, SUPPORT OF THE WETLAND CENTER, WHAT PERSON WOULD I TALK TO? A. CURT RICHARDSON. Q. SO, HE PERSONALLY KEEPS ALL THE RECORDS? A. I DON'T KNOW, BUT HE'S THE FIRST PERSON I WOULD GO TO. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 188 Q. WELL, HAVE YOU APPLIED FOR GRANTS THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER BEFORE? A. NO. Q. SO, YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THE BOOKS ARE KEPT, SO TO SPEAK, ON THE WETLAND CENTER? A. THAT'S CORRECT. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) Q. (BY MR. REID) IF I WANTED TO FIND WITHIN THE EXHIBITS WE MARKED YESTERDAY, THE MOST CURRENT CLEAREST STATEMENT OF EXACTLY THE PROJECT THAT SONG IS GOING TO BE DOING, COULD YOU SHOW ME WHICH DOCUMENT WOULD CONTAIN THAT? A. NONE OF THEM DESCRIBE WHAT WE ANTICIPATE AT THIS POINT HE'S GOING TO DO IN ENTIRETY. IT'S IN PIECES, BUT THIS EXHIBIT TWENTY-THREE IS A REASONABLE DESCRIPTION. Q. OKAY. HOLD THAT FOR A SECOND, PLEASE. BY THE WAY, REMIND ME -- AND I'M SURE YOU'VE TOLD ME THIS BEFORE; I JUST NEED TO HAVE A POINT OF REFERENCE -- WHEN DID -- WHEN WERE YOU FIRST TOLD, OR WHEN WAS IT FIRST DISCUSSED THAT YOU WOULD ACTUALLY BE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 189 A WITNESS WHO WOULD TESTIFY IN THIS LITIGATION ON BEHALF OF THE COOPERATIVE? A. AS I MENTIONED A FEW MINUTES AGO, I RECALL IT WAS SOME TIME LAST YEAR. Q. DID ANYONE TELL YOU THAT THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU COMPLETE YOUR WORK AND COME UP WITH YOUR CONCLUSIONS BY A CERTAIN DATE? A. BILL GREEN WAS -- LISTED DATES THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE INFORMATION ON, AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT, AND AT THE SAME TIME, I TOLD HIM THAT THIS WAS A Ph.D. DISSERTATION THAT HAD A SCHEDULE, AND IT MIGHT NOT MEET THOSE DATES. Q. NOW, YOU'VE CHANGED WHAT I ASKED, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT DIDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE. I ASKED YOU REGARDING WHEN YOU WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE OPINIONS, AND YOU CHANGED IT TO GIVE HIM SOME INFORMATION. DID YOU MEAN THAT CHANGE TO REFLECT SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID? A. WELL, ONE THING YOU SAID IS, I WAS NEVER REQUIRED TO HAVE OPINIONS. I HAVE NO REQUIREMENTS. I WAS ASKED -- I WAS -- AS I RECALL, DATES WERE SPECIFIED, AND I WAS ASKED TO HAVE INFORMATION, IF POSSIBLE; AND I SAID, IF POSSIBLE, WE WILL, BUT THIS IS A Ph.D. DISSERTATION, AND IT MAY TAKE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 190 CONSIDERABLY LONGER. Q. WHAT INFORMATION WERE YOU ASKED TO HAVE? A. RESULTS FROM OUR WORK. Q. AND IN WHAT FORM DID YOU ENVISION THIS INFORMATION WOULD BE? A. I HADN'T -- I HADN'T ENVISIONED IT TO BE OF ANY PRECISE FORM OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT OUR WORK MIGHT PROVIDE SCIENTIFIC SUPPORT FOR THE NATURE OF WETLANDS TRAPPING. Q. DID YOU HAVE IN YOUR MIND A WORKING HYPOTHESIS? A. NO. OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT WETLANDS ARE -- WILL TRAP PHOSPHORUS. Q. AND WHAT THEN WERE YOU TRYING TO CONCLUDE? WHAT DID YOU HOPE TO CONCLUDE? A. I HOPED TO SEE A DISSERTATION COME FROM THIS FROM SONG. Q. OKAY. YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE PRESENTED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS BY THE COOPERATIVE IN LITIGATION? A. YES. Q. AND YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS AN ISSUE CONCERNING WHETHER OR NOT STA'S WOULD WORK? A. I UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS AN ISSUE CONCERNING THE DESIGN OF WETLANDS AS NUTRIENT TRAPS. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 191 Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU READ THE SWIM PLAN, BY THE WAY? A. I -- I'M SURE I'VE LOOKED AT PARTS OF IT. Q. SO, YOU'RE GENERALLY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROGRAM THAT IS PROPOSED IN THE SWIM PLAN? A. JUST VAGUELY, CAUSE IT'S BEEN QUITE SOME TIME. Q. DID YOU UNDERSTAND THERE WAS A DISPUTE OVER WHETHER DATA CONCERNING THE ENTRAPMENT OF NUTRIENTS IN WCA-2A COULD BE TRANSFERRED TO STA'S WHICH WOULD BE BUILT ON FARMLAND? A. I DIDN'T UNDER -- DIDN'T -- I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT DISPUTE. Q. WOULD YOU ENVISION THAT ANY WORK THAT YOU DO -- OR THAT SONG WOULD DO, WOULD SHED ANY LIGHT ON THAT QUESTION? A. ON WHETHER OR NOT THE DATA WERE TRANSFERRABLE? Q. RIGHT. A. IT'S POSSIBLE. I DON'T KNOW. Q. WERE YOU ATTEMPTING TO DISCOVER THE RATE AT WHICH WETLANDS WOULD TRAP PHOSPHORUS? A. YES. I HOPE THAT THE MODELING WORK THAT SONG AND I DO, AS I MENTIONED TO YOU YESTERDAY, PROVIDES AN INDICATION OF THAT. Q. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT ANY INFORMATION CONCERNING THAT TOPIC PREVIOUSLY? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 192 A. I'VE -- NOT RECENTLY, BUT I HAVE LOOKED AT SECTIONS OF SOME OF THE EXHIBITS WHICH DO DISCUSS THAT TOPIC. Q. DO YOU -- ARE YOU AWARE OF WHAT THE SWIM PLAN -- WHAT POSITION THE SWIM PLAN TAKES WITH REGARD TO THAT TOPIC--- A. NOT--- Q. ---THE RATE OF ENTRAPMENT? A. NO. Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF THE POSITION TAKEN BY THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER PEOPLE ON THAT TOPIC? A. I KNOW ONLY THAT THERE'S A DISPUTE. Q. BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT EACH SIDE'S VIEW IS? A. I KNOW THAT IT DIFFERS. Q. DO YOU KNOW THAT THE RATE OF PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE BEARS ON THE SIZE -- THE NECESSARY SIZE OF THE WETLANDS THAT ARE BEING DESIGNED? A. BY RATE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? WHAT UNIT? Q. THE RATE OF UPTAKE. A. THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF TRAPPING OF--- Q. SURE. A. YES. Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU READ THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER ANNUAL REPORTS? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 193 A. NO. Q. HAVE YOU TALKED TO ANYBODY THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THOSE ABOUT WHAT'S IN THEM? A. I HAVEN'T, SPECIFICALLY, ASKED ABOUT WHAT'S IN THEM. Q. IS THERE ANY REASON YOU HAVEN'T READ THEM? A. I HAVE NO REASON TO AT THIS POINT. Q. HAVE YOU AND SONG EVER TALKED ABOUT WHAT'S IN THEM? A. I -- NOT DIRECTLY. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THEY CONTAIN INFORMATION RELATING DIRECTLY TO THE WORK THAT SONG'S GOING TO BE DOING? A. I SUSPECT THAT THEY DO, BUT I -- UNTIL I LOOK AT THEM, I CAN'T BE SURE. Q. BUT AT THIS POINT, EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE BEEN ADVISING AND CONSULTING WITH SONG FOR A YEAR OR TWO, AND YOU KNOW WHAT HIS PROPOSED DISSERTATION TOPIC IS, NEITHER OF YOU HAVE LOOKED AT OR TALKED ABOUT THE MATERIAL CREATED BY THIS VERY SAME WETLAND CENTER THAT'S SUPPORTING HIM? A. AS I MENTIONED TO YOU BEFORE, MOST OF SONG'S ACTIVITIES, UP TO THIS POINT, HAVE INVOLVED COURSE WORK. WE'RE IN THE EARLY STAGES OF DEVELOPING HIS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 194 PROPOSAL. Q. I GUESS THAT MEANS, NO. A. IF YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION I'LL TRY TO GIVE IT THAT YES OR NO. Q. THE QUESTION WAS, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S INFORMATION IN THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER MATERIAL, THE SAME WETLAND CENTER THAT'S SUPPORTING SONG, WHICH RELATES DIRECTLY TO THE TASK THAT YOU AND SONG ARE UNDERTAKING, NEITHER OF YOU HAVE LOOKED AT IT. AND YOU HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT WHAT'S IN THAT MATERIAL. A. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR SONG. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER SONG'S LOOKED AT IT? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. HAS HE TALKED TO YOU ABOUT IT? A. HE HASN'T COME UP TO ME AND SAID, THIS INFORMATION WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS IN THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER ANNUAL REPORT. Q. OKAY. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT A LOT OF TIMES, YOU MIGHT GET THE IMPRESSION SONG READ SOMETHING BY COMMENTS THEY MAKE--- A. THEN THE--- Q. ---THAT AREN'T QUITE AS DIRECT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 195 A. YEAH. THEN THE ANSWER IS NO, I'M NOT AWARE THAT HE--- Q. AND YOU HAVEN'T READ IT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND YOU HAVEN'T TALKED TO SONG ABOUT IT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. OKAY. NOW, IN -- OH, GOING BACK TO THE OTHER QUESTION, THEN, THAT I STARTED THIS LINE WITH. YOU WERE TOLD, YOU SAID, BY BILL GREEN THAT YOU HAD TO HAVE SOME INFORMATION BY A CERTAIN DATE. A. HE DIDN'T SAY I HAD TO HAVE SOME INFORMATION, HE ASKED IF -- HE -- HE WOULD LIKE -- HE WISHED THAT I WOULD. THERE WAS NEVER ANY REQUIREMENT. Q. DID HE EVER TELL YOU THERE WAS A COURT ORDER THAT REQUIRED YOU TO HAVE OPINIONS BY A CERTAIN DATE? MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO FORM. MR. McCAUGHAN: YOU CAN ANSWER. WITNESS: OKAY. A. I DON'T THINK HE STATED ANYTHING QUITE IN THAT WAY; I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. ARE YOU AWARE THAT THERE'S A COURT ORDER THAT REQUIRE YOUR OPINIONS BE FINALIZED BY A CERTAIN DATE? MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO FORM. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 196 A. I NEVER THOUGHT OF IT AS THAT. Q. NOW, YOU WERE ALSO HAVING DISCUSSIONS ALONG THE WAY WITH THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE ABOUT TESTIFYING IN THIS CASE ON THEIR BEHALF AS WELL, IS THAT CORRECT? A. I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, AND TESTIFYING IN THEIR BEHALF IN QUITE SOME TIME. Q. DID THEY TELL -- EVER TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE LISTED IN THE COURT FILINGS AS AN EXPERT WITNESS WHO WOULD BE TESTIFYING ON THEIR BEHALF? A. I -- THEY MAY HAVE A YEAR AND A HALF, TWO YEARS AGO. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. WHEN WAS THIS FILED? A. OCTOBER 26. Q. DID THEY EVER TELL YOU, IN THE VICINITY OF OCTOBER 26, 1992, THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE AN EXPERT WITNESS WHO WOULD TESTIFY ON BEHALF OF THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. DID ANYONE WHO REPRESENTS THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, LAWYERS, SOMEONE FROM PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK? A. I DON'T REMEMBER THEM. Q. DID ANYBODY FROM THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE EVER TELL DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 197 YOU THAT YOU WERE REQUIRED TO HAVE OPINIONS, PURSUANT TO A COURT ORDER, BY FEBRUARY OF 1993? MR. RUSSELL: OBJECT TO FORM. A. I DON'T REMEMBER BEING TOLD THAT. Q. DID ANYBODY FROM THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE TELL YOU THAT THEY REPRESENTED, IN A FILING WITH THE COURT, THAT YOU WOULD HAVE YOUR FINAL OPINIONS BY FEBRUARY 28, 1993? A. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. Q. NOW YESTERDAY, LOOKING AT EXHIBIT 23, YOU TOLD ME THAT THIS WAS THE-- THERE WAS NOTHING OMITTED. WE LOOKED AT THE PAGE, TOWARD THE END OF THE PAGE. A. UNDER APPLICATION OF THE MODEL? Q. RIGHT. A. YEAH. Q. AND BEYOND, AND I THINK YOU TOLD ME THAT THAT WAS A COMPLETE DOCUMENT. A. AS FAR AS I KNOW, IT IS. Q. ALL RIGHT, LET ME SHOW YOU--- MR. REID: LET ME MARK AS EXHIBIT 24, PLEASE -- OH, I'M SORRY. (THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 25 - KENNETH H. RECKHOW, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 198 DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.) Q. (BY MR. REID) THE DOCUMENT -- THIS MARKING AT THE TOP IS NOT PART OF THE DOCUMENT, IT'S A NOTE THAT I MADE ON MY COPY. IT JUST SAYS PRODUCED BY GHERINI. I SHOW YOU A DOCUMENT WHICH IS ENTITLED "AN EMPIRICAL MODEL OF PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION FOR WAC-2A OF THE EVERGLADES" BY THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, AUGUST, 1992, AND ASK YOU IF YOU'VE SEEN THAT BEFORE. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. I PROBABLY HAVE. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.) Q. WHAT IS THAT DOCUMENT? A. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE SOMETHING THAT SONG WAS INVOLVED IN DOING. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER ANYONE ELSE WAS INVOLVED AS WELL, BUT THE STATISTICAL WORK MUST HAVE BEEN SONG'S. Q. HAVE YOU REVIEWED THIS, I ASSUME? A. WELL, AS I SAID, I PROBABLY HAVE SEEN IT, BUT ON THAT BASIS, I CAN'T RECALL REVIEWING IT. Q. WELL, YOU REMEMBER REVIEWING EXHIBIT 25, YOU TOLD ME, I BELIEVE -- I'M SORRY, 23 YOU TOLD ME. A. YEAH, THESE ARE MY NOTES. Q. AND HOW -- WHAT'S THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN 23 AND 25 EXHIBIT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 199 A. WELL, I REMEMBER REVIEWING THIS, BECAUSE I SEE MY NOTES ON IT. YOU KNOW, I CAN GO OVER AND I CAN SEE THAT THEY LOOK -- SECTIONS ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. Q. SO WE'RE CLEAR THEN, ON 23 YOU HAVE AN INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION OF REVIEWING IT--- A. BECAUSE MY HANDWRITTEN NOTES ARE ON IT. Q. ---AND WHAT APPEARS TO BE A VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL DOCUMENT, EXHIBIT 25, YOUR TESTIMONY IS YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF REVIEWING IT. A. I SAID I PROBABLY HAVE LOOKED AT IT. I THINK THAT'S WHAT I JUST SAID, EARLIER. Q. IS SONG AUTHORIZED TO DISTRIBUTE MATERIALS UNDER THE HEADING OF THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER? A. I HAVE NO IDEA. Q. WELL, WHO IS AUTHORIZED TO DO THAT? A. YOU'D HAVE TO ASK CURT RICHARDSON. I DON'T KNOW. Q. WHAT'S YOUR CONNECTION WITH THE WETLAND CENTER? A. I'M LISTED AS ONE OF THE FACULTY IN THE WETLAND CENTER. Q. AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA AS TO ANY UNIVERSITY REGULATIONS OR PROTOCOLS CONCERNING WHEN YOU CAN USE THE WETLAND CENTER NAME, AND WHEN YOU CAN'T? A. THAT'S CORRECT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 200 Q. AND YOU -- DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION AS TO WHETHER A GRADUATE STUDENT, GENERALLY, IS AUTHORIZED TO DISTRIBUTE MATERIALS UNDER THE HEADING OF DUKE UNIVERSITY? A. WHETHER A GRADUATE STUDENT IS AUTHORIZED TO DISTRIBUTE MATERIAL UNDER THE HEADING OF DUKE UNIVERSITY? Q. EXACTLY. A. I -- I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY GROUP AT DUKE THAT IS -- SERVES AS AN AUTHORIZING ORGANIZATION TO PERMIT OR REJECT THAT. Q. OKAY. IF I SAW -- IF ONE SEE'S EXHIBIT 23 OR 25, EITHER ONE. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. YOU WOULD GET THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS IS A REPORT ISSUED BY THE DUKE UNIVERSITY WETLAND CENTER. IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES. Q. YOU'D HAVE NO IDEA THAT THIS WAS WRITTEN BY A GRADUATE STUDENT WHO'S IN THE THIRD YEAR OF THEIR PROGRAM AT DUKE. A. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS APPROPRIATE? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 201 A. IT'S -- I HAVE NO OPINION ON IT. Q. DO YOU HAVE -- DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINION AS TO WHETHER PEOPLE REACT DIFFERENTLY TO DOCUMENTATION WHICH HAS THE STAMP, THE NAME OF THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER ON IT, AS OPPOSED TO SOME INDIVIDUAL'S NAME THAT, PERHAPS, NO ONE'S EVER HEARD OF. MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO FORM. A. I SUSPECT THAT PEOPLE WILL MAKE JUDGMENTS ON A DOCUMENT ON THE BASIS OF WHO'S IDENTIFIED AS THE AUTHOR, OR WHAT GROUP IS IDENTIFIED AS THE AUTHOR. Q. IS IT TYPICAL THAT A REPORT IS ISSUED FROM THE WETLAND CENTER WITHOUT ANY AUTHOR IDENTIFIED? A. I HAVE NO IDEA. Q. EITHER WAY, I MEAN, YOU'VE NEVER SEEN DOCUMENTS WITH OR WITHOUT AUTHORS? A. I HAVE NO INVOLVEMENT WITH THE PUBLICATIONS FROM THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, IN A FORMAL WAY. Q. AND YOU'VE NEVER LOOKED AT ANY? A. I DIDN'T SAY THAT. I ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS WITH REGARD TO THOSE REPORTS EARLIER. Q. OKAY. MY QUESTION IS NOT ASKING YOU FOR YOUR OPINION ON THE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS. MY QUESTION IS ASKING YOU WHETHER YOU, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, HAVE ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE AS TO DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 202 WHETHER THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER TYPICALLY INCLUDES AUTHORS, OR TYPICALLY DOES NOT INCLUDE AUTHORS. A. NO, I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THAT. Q. BASED ON WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN. A. IT LOOKS LIKE -- WELL, RIGHT HERE, THEY'RE NOT INCLUDING AUTHORS. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINION AS TO -- OR ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE PRACTICE IN OTHER DEPARTMENTS OR OTHER SCHOOLS AT DUKE, CONCERNING THE SAME SUBJECT? A. I DON'T KNOW. MY PERSONAL APPROACH IS TO INCLUDE AUTHORS, ALWAYS. Q. WHEN YOU REVIEWED THIS FOR SONG, DID YOU SUGGEST TO HIM THAT AN AUTHOR'S NAME BE PLACED ON IT? A. I DIDN'T. Q. NOW, WHO IS GHERINI? A. STEVE GHERINI IS A CONSULTANT WITH TETRA TECH. Q. AND WHAT IS TETRA TECH? A. TETRA TECH IS A CONSULTING FIRM. Q. AND WHAT IS THEIR ROLE RELATING TO THE LITIGATION, AS FAR AS YOU KNOW? A. I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'VE BEEN HIRED TO DO SOME MODELING IN THE WETLANDS. Q. BY WHOM? A. I DON'T KNOW. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 203 Q. AND HAVE YOU HAD ANY DIRECT DEALINGS WITH ANYBODY FROM TETRA TECH? A. ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT? Q. WELL, LET'S START BROAD, SO WE DON'T MISS ANYTHING. HAVE YOU HAD DEALINGS WITH TETRA TECH ON ANYTHING? A. I'VE WORKED WITH TETRA TECH A FEW TIMES. Q. OKAY, AND TELL ME WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH TETRA TECH. A. I'VE WORKED WITH THEM ON ACIDIFICATION IN THE ADIRONDACKS, AND ON WATER QUALITY MODELING FOR EPA. Q. WATER QUALITY MODELING? A. FOR EPA. Q. OKAY. AND WHEN DID YOU DO THAT? A. OH, AT VARIOUS TIMES OVER THE PAST EIGHT YEARS. Q. PAST EIGHT YEARS? A. YEAH. Q. YOU MEAN ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY? A. YEAH. Q. OH, I'M SORRY. A. YEAH, I'M SORRY. YEAH, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, YEAH. Q. ALL RIGHT. AND HAVE YOU DONE -- HAVE YOU HAD ANY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 204 CONTACT WITH THEM CONCERNING THIS PARTICULAR LITIGATION? A. AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY, I HAD FORGOTTEN THE NAME, BUT A NAME WAS GIVEN. RON MUNSON CALLED ME ABOUT OUR MODELING WORK, AND THEN, AS I WAS REMINDED BY ONE OF THE EXHIBITS, HE FAXED SOME MATERIAL, AND I INDICATED TO HIM, AT THAT TIME, THAT WE HAD NO MODEL. Q. DID YOU SEND -- EVER SEND INFORMATION TO TETRA TECH? A. I DON'T RECALL SENDING ANY ON THIS ACTIVITY. Q. EXHIBIT -- I'LL TELL YOU EXHIBIT 25 CAME OUT OF MR. GHERINI'S RECORDS. A. I NOTICED THAT. Q. THAT WAS MY NOTE, JUST SO I REMEMBERED WHICH COPY WAS WHICH. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MR. GHERINI OBTAINED A COPY OF YOUR GRADUATE STUDENT'S WORK? A. NO. Q. TELL ME OR GIVE ME, IF YOU WILL, A SUMMARY OF THE PROPOSAL THAT'S REPRESENTED BY EXHIBIT 23? A. SONG IS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE APPLICATION OF NONPARAMETRIC REGRESSION TO RELATE PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION FLOWING OUT OF WETLANDS TO THE LOADING, DEPTH, WATER RESONANCE, TIME AND OTHER DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 205 VARIABLES THAT APPEAR TO BE IMPORTANT IN DETERMINING THE TRAPPING EFFICIENCY OF WETLANDS. Q. OKAY. I'M JUST LOOKING FOR SOMETHING. I'LL BE RIGHT WITH YOU. A. UH-HUH (YES). MR. REID: LET'S TAKE A BREAK, OKAY? (THEREUPON, A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) EXAMINATION BY MR. REID CONTINUES: Q. CONTINUE TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 23 OR 25. THIS APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN PRINTED. DOES IT LOOK THAT WAY TO YOU? A. BY PRINTED, YOU MEAN--- Q. AS OPPOSED TO TYPED? OR DO YOU HAVE TYPEWRITERS IN THE WETLAND CENTER THAT LOOK LIKE THAT? A. I DON'T KNOW WHAT EQUIPMENT THE WETLAND CENTER HAS FOR PRODUCING DOCUMENTS, BUT IT -- I SUSPECT THAT THIS IS OFF OF A WORD PROCESSING AND A LASER PRINTER. Q. AND THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN PREPARED IN -- BOTH VERSIONS IN AUGUST OF '92. I THINK IT'S NOTED ON THERE. A. YES. Q. NOW, WHERE WAS YOUR GRADUATE STUDENT AT THAT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 206 POINT? HE WAS -- HE HAD COMPLETED TWO YEARS OF HIS COURSE WORK. IS THAT CORRECT? MS. STINSON: I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT 24 IS? WHAT'S THE INTERVENING DOCUMENT? MR. FITZGERALD: 24 ARE THE PRELIMINARY REPORTS--- MR. REID: THE BI-WEEKLY REPORTS. MS. STINSON: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) HE WOULD HAVE COMPLETED HIS TWO YEARS OF -- TWO OF HIS THREE YEARS OF COURSE WORK WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETED. A. I THINK THAT SONG -- I HAVE SEVEN -- I HAVE EIGHT GRADUATE Ph.D. STUDENTS NOW AND I CAN'T RECALL EXACTLY WHEN EACH ARRIVED, BUT I THINK THAT SONG ARRIVED IN JANUARY. SO THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN AFTER A YEAR AND A HALF. Q. SO THAT MEANS HE'D STILL HAVE A YEAR AND A HALF OF COURSE WORK TO DO? A. WELL, IT ISN'T SET UP NECESSARILY THAT WAY. HE HAS A CERTAIN NUMBER OF UNITS, 60 UNITS OF CREDIT. Q. AND AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE MOST RECENT STATEMENT OF WHAT HE IS GOING TO BE PROPOSING THIS COMING AUGUST, TO THE COMMITTEE FOR HIS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 207 DISSERTATION? A. THIS IS AS RECENT AND AS THOROUGH A STATEMENT AS I'M AWARE OF. Q. IS IT NORMAL THAT A GRADUATE STUDENT WOULD HAVE A STATEMENT, SUCH AS THIS, PREPARED A YEAR BEFORE GOING TO THE COMMITTEE TO HAVE THE DISSERTATION APPROVED? A. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING NORMAL. Q. HAVE YOU EVER KNOWN THAT TO HAPPEN BEFORE? A. I CAN'T RECALL SPECIFICS. IT'S NOT AT ALL SURPRISING. Q. ARE YOU -- DO YOU KNOW OF SITUATIONS WHERE WORK, SUCH AS THIS, HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE? MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO FORM. A. I -- I'M NOT AWARE, BUT I HAVE NO OBJECTION. Q. IS THERE ANY -- ARE THERE ANY REQUIREMENTS OR GUIDELINES AT DUKE UNIVERSITY CONCERNING RESEARCH DONE BY PEOPLE AFFILIATED WITH DUKE, WITH REGARD TO WHEN THAT RESEARCH CAN BE DISTRIBUTED? A. NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. Q. THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT OF ANY PEER REVIEW OF RESEARCH DONE BY SCIENTISTS AT DUKE? A. EACH RESEARCHER HAS HIS OR HER OWN APPROACH. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 208 Q. ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH DISTRIBUTING EXHIBIT 25 TO THE PUBLIC IN AUGUST OF 19 -- OR SOMETIME AFTER AUGUST OF 1992? A. I HAVE NO OBJECTION. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THIS DOCUMENT -- STRIKE THAT. YOU ARE, IN EFFECT, THE DUKE UNIVERSITY EMPLOYEE WHO SUPERVISES -- WHO'S IN CHARGE OF SONG? A. I AM HIS ADVISOR. Q. DOES THAT MEAN YOU'RE IN CHARGE OF HIM? A. THAT MEANS I AM ADVISING HIM ON HIS GRADUATE PROGRAM, AND HIS DISSERTATION. Q. DOES ANYBODY ELSE AT DUKE UNIVERSITY HAVE ANY SAY OR ANY CONTROL OVER WHAT HE DOES? A. YES. Q. WHO WOULD THAT BE? A. FACULTY WHO HAVE EMPLOYED HIM AS A TEACHING ASSISTANT. Q. OKAY. AND THAT WOULD BE WITH REGARD TO THE TEACHING HE'S DOING? A. YES. Q. YOU'D BE THE ONLY PERSON AT DUKE WHO WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR REVIEWING HIS RESEARCH? A. THAT'S NOT CORRECT. Q. WHO ELSE WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR REVIEWING HIS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 209 RESEARCH? A. HIS DISSERTATION COMMITTEE. Q. AND THAT WON'T COME INTO PLACE UNTIL NEXT AUGUST? A. THAT WILL COME -- THAT WILL BE IDENTIFIED OVER THE NEXT THREE OR FOUR MONTHS. Q. SO IT DOESN'T EXIST TODAY? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. SO AS OF AUGUST OF '92, WHEN THIS -- WHEN EXHIBITS 23 OR 25 WERE PREPARED AND SUBSEQUENTLY DISTRIBUTED, YOU WERE THE ONLY PERSON AT DUKE WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL'S RESEARCH? A. CURT RICHARDSON, I'M CERTAIN WAS INVOLVED IN DISCUSSIONS WITH SONG. Q. NOW WHY WOULD HE BE INVOLVED? A. BECAUSE HE'S -- SONG'S WORK INVOLVES WETLANDS TRAPPING OF NUTRIENTS; AND HE'S A WETLAND SCIENTIST. Q. WELL, TO THE EXTENT THERE'S SOMETHING IN HERE ABOUT STATISTICS, DOES THAT MEAN SOMEBODY IN THE STATISTICS SCHOOL WOULD HAVE SOME CONTROL OVER RESEARCH DONE BY THIS STUDENT? A. IT MEANS THAT WE'RE LIKELY TO HAVE SOMEONE ON HIS COMMITTEE WHO'S A STATISTICIAN. Q. I'M TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW, BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 210 IS FORMED? A. WE -- HE QUITE LIKELY HAS CONSULTED WITH FACULTY AT THE UNIVERSITY ON STATISTICS. Q. OKAY. WELL, WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT IS, WITH THE PROCEDURES AT DUKE, CAN ANYBODY WHO GO -- WHO'S AT DUKE, PREPARE RESEARCH, PUT THE NAME OF DUKE UNIVERSITY ON IT, WITHOUT ANY PERSON'S NAME, AND SEND IT OUT TO THE WORLD AT LARGE, WITHOUT ANY CONTROL AT ALL? MR. McCAUGHAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. HAVE WE ESTABLISHED THAT IT'S BEEN SENT TO THE WORLD? MR. REID: WAIT JUST A SECOND. JUST A SECOND. NO OFFENSE, BUT YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT COUNSEL OF RECORD. IF THEY WANT TO OBJECT, THAT'S FINE. YOU KNOW. MS. STINSON: I THINK--- MR. McCAUGHAN: I'M APPEARING AS COUNSEL FOR DUKE UNIVERSITY, AND YOU HAVE ONE OF OUR EMPLOYEES BEING DEPOSED. MR. REID: THAT'S RIGHT. MR. McCAUGHAN: AND YOU'RE ASKING A QUESTION WHICH IS CONFUSING AND ACTUALLY NONSENSICAL. WHAT IS THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 211 WORLD THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? MR. REID: WELL, WE DON'T KNOW, DO WE? I'D BE HAPPY FOR YOU TO TELL ME--- MR. McCAUGHAN: IT HAS NOT--- MR. REID: ---WHO DUKE HAS DISTRIBUTED THIS TO. MR. McCAUGHAN: ---IT HAS NOT -- IT HAS NOT BEEN ESTABLISHED. MR. REID: AND ONLY DUKE CAN ESTABLISH THAT, IT APPEARS, EXCEPT WE DO KNOW IT GOT INTO THE HANDS OF A MR. GHERINI, OUT WEST, SO WE KNOW THAT, AT LEAST. NOW, GOING BACK TO MY QUESTION. Q. (BY MR. REID) WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT IS, DOES DUKE HAVE ANY AUTHORITY OR ANY RULES WITH REGARD TO WHEN SOMEONE AFFILIATED WITH DUKE CAN PREPARE A DOCUMENT, RESEARCH, PUT THE NAME OF DUKE ON IT AND DISTRIBUTE IT TO SOMEONE OUTSIDE OF DUKE? A. I DON'T KNOW AS THEY HAVE ANY RULES ON THAT. Q. DO YOU CONSIDER THERE'S ANY PROBLEM WITH DISTRIBUTING THIS DOCUMENT TO OUTSIDERS AT THE TIME IT WAS PREPARED? MR. RUSSELL: OBJECT TO THE FORM. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 212 A. I'D HAVE TO LOOK IT OVER CAREFULLY AND THINK ABOUT IT, BUT AT FIRST GLANCE I HAVE NO PROBLEM. Q. WHEN YOU REVIEWED THIS, DID YOU -- AT THAT POINT, WERE YOU LOOKING IT OVER CAREFULLY AND THINKING ABOUT IT? A. I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT, NOT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF IT BEING DISTRIBUTED TO PEOPLE. I WAS LOOKING AT IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A STATEMENT AT THAT STAGE OF SONG'S ACADEMIC PROGRAM OF WHERE HIS RESEARCH WAS HEADED. Q. AND YOU MENTIONED THAT CURTIS RICHARDSON MAY HAVE HAD SOME INPUT INTO THIS DOCUMENT. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER HE DID, IN FACT, OR NOT? A. I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN. Q. IS HE--- A. I THINK, BECAUSE IT SAYS DUKE UNIVERSITY WETLAND CENTER THAT HE PROBABLY DID. Q. WOULD HIS INVOLVEMENT BE BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN RETAINED BY THE SUGAR INTEREST TO PROVIDE CONSULTING AND TESTIMONY IN THIS LITIGATION? A. NOT NECESSARILY. Q. WHO EDITED OR CHANGED THIS DOCUMENT--- A. I--- Q. ---ON EXHIBIT 23 TO EXHIBIT 25? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 213 A. I HAVE NO IDEA. Q. OKAY. LOOK AT THE LAST -- LOOK AT PAGE SEVEN. A. ON WHICH EXHIBIT? Q. OF 25, PLEASE. ON THE LAST -- IN THE LAST PARAGRAPH ABOUT THE SIXTH LINE UP, IN THE MIDDLE. IT BEGINS "THE AVERAGE NET RETENTION..." DO YOU SEE THAT SENTENCE? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. READ THAT TO YOURSELF. JUST READ THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY, HAVE YOU READ IT? A. YES. Q. OKAY. NOW, THE WAY I -- THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THAT, SONG -- OR I GUESS WE SHOULD SAY THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER IS SAYING THAT BASED ON RICHARDSON'S WORK, THERE WAS -- THE AVERAGE NET RETENTION RATE WAS 79.63 TONS A YEAR, CORRECT? A. YES. Q. AND IF YOU APPLY THE AVERAGE PHOSPHORUS RETENTION RATE OF .63 GRAMS -- YOU'D BETTER HELP ME HERE, GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR? A. AND WHERE'S IS THAT FIGURE? Q. IT'S ABOUT THREE LINES UP FROM WHERE YOU STARTED. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 214 A. YEAH. Q. OKAY, IS THAT -- AM I READING THAT CORRECT? A. .63 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED A YEAR, UH-HUH (YES). Q. NOW THAT'S RICHARDSON'S NUMBER, IS THAT CORRECT? A. RICHARDSON REPORTED, YES. Q. THAT THE AVERAGE PHOSPHORUS RETENTION RATE WAS .63 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND IF YOU TAKE THE TONNAGE, THE CALCULATION LEADS TO THE REQUIREMENT OF 12,600 HECTARES. IS THAT CORRECT? A. HECTARES. Q. HECTARES, RIGHT. AND THAT'S ROUGHLY 31,000 ACRES, IS THAT CORRECT? A. I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT ON THE CONVERSION. Q. DOES THAT SEEM ABOUT RIGHT TO YOU? A. I JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD I DON'T RECALL THE CONVERSION BETWEEN HECTARES AND ACRES. Q. OKAY. SO, THE WAY I READ THIS, BASED ON RICHARDSON'S STATEMENT CONCERNING THE RETENTION RATE OF PHOSPHORUS, AND THE -- AND RICHARDSON'S CALCULATION AS TO THE TONS WHICH ARE RETAINED, WHICH BASICALLY SUBTRACTS, I GUESS, WHAT COMES IN -- SUBTRACT WHAT GOES OUT FROM WHAT COMES IN, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 215 YOU WOULD NEED ABOUT 12,000 HECTARES OF LAND TO TAKE UP THAT AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS A YEAR. IS THAT CORRECT? A. THAT'S WHAT IT SEEMS TO SAY. Q. NOW, THIS APPEARS TO BE A POSITION OF THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT CALCULATION? A. I HAVE NO COMMENT ON IT. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THAT. Q. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ACRES ARE PROPOSED IN THE SWIM PLAN FOR THE STA'S? A. NO, I DO NOT. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF IT'S MORE THAN THE 31,000 OR LESS THAN THE 31,000? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER IN THEIR ANNUAL REPORT AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS BY DR. RICHARDSON HAS SAID TO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO TAKE UP THAT AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS? A. NO, I DO NOT. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF IT'S MORE THAN 31,000 OR LESS THAN 31,000? A. I HAVE NO IDEA. Q. WHY WAS THIS PARAGRAPH, INCLUDING THE PART WE WERE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 216 JUST LOOKING AT, REMOVED FROM EXHIBIT 25, WHEN IT WAS REPRINTED AS EXHIBIT 23? A. I DON'T KNOW WHICH CAME FIRST, AND I CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW. Q. WELL, WHAT DOES EXHIBIT 25 -- HOW DOES EXHIBIT 25 IDENTIFY ITSELF? A. IT SAYS PRELIMINARY REPORT. Q. AND HOW DOES EXHIBIT 23 IDENTIFY ITSELF? A. IT HAS LEFT OUT PRELIMINARY REPORT. Q. DOES THAT LEAD YOU TO ANY CONCLUSION? A. THAT SUGGESTS TO ME THAT IT'S -- THAT THIS WOULD FOLLOW THIS. Q. THAT 25 CAME FIRST AND--- A. 25--- Q. ---AND 23 CAME SECOND. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND SO I'LL ASK AGAIN. DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT LAST PARAGRAPH--- A. I HAVE NO--- Q. ---WAS REMOVED FROM 25? A. ---I HAVE NO IDEA. THIS IS WHAT I READ, AND IT WASN'T IN THERE. Q. AND DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THAT PARTICULAR PARAGRAPH IS SIGNIFICANT IN THE DISPUTE THAT'S -- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 217 THAT WE'RE HERE ABOUT? A. IT SOUNDS LIKE IT IS APT TO BE. Q. NOW, LOOKING AT -- YOU CAN LOOK AT EITHER ONE. I THINK THIS IS THE -- AT PAGE TWO, UNDER DATA, NUMBER THREE. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. SEE THAT? THE LAST -- SECOND PARAGRAPH, LAST SENTENCE. IT BEGINS "DAILY RAINFALL." A. OKAY, I BETTER LOOK AT THIS. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) Q. (BY MR. REID) IS THAT IN BOTH VERSIONS? A. YEAH. Q. OKAY. NOW, .03 MILLIGRAMS PER LITER IS THE SAME AS PARTS PER BILLION, ISN'T IT? A. PARTS PER MILLION. Q. PARTS PER MILLION? A. PARTS PER MILLION, THAT'S CORRECT. Q. OKAY, AND THAT WOULD BE IN EFFECT 30 PARTS PER BILLION THEN. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. IS THAT CORRECT? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT NUMBER? A. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE NUMBER WOULD BE. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 218 Q. DO YOU KNOW IF ANYONE CHECKED THAT NUMBER? A. I HAVE NO IDEA. Q. OKAY. LOOK AT STUDY AREA--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---PARAGRAPH, THE SENTENCE BEGINNING, "APPROXIMATELY 58% OF THE INFLOW" AND SO FORTH? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. DO YOU KNOW IF THOSE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE? A. I HAVE NO IDEA. Q. NOW, UNDER PARAGRAPH THREE, "DATA" -- THE FIRST SENTENCE, "DATA COLLECTED BY THE AUTHORS FROM VARIOUS STATE SOURCES" AND SO FORTH; FIRST OF ALL, WHO ARE THE AUTHORS? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. DO YOU READ THAT TO BE THE AUTHORS OF THIS PARTICULAR PAPER? A. YES. Q. AND IT'S PLURAL? A. YES. Q. AND -- BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO THAT MAKES REFERENCE TO? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND WHEN YOU REVIEWED THIS FOR SONG, YOU DIDN'T DISCUSS THAT WITH HIM? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 219 A. NO. Q. YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THE AUTHORS, I TAKE IT. A. I AM NOT ONE OF THE AUTHORS. Q. AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE VARIOUS STATE SOURCES MAKE -- THAT ARE MADE REFERENCE TO? A. NO. Q. WHAT DOES OLIGOTROPHIC MEAN? A. OLIGOTROPHIC? Q. YEAH. A. NUTRIENT POOR. Q. OKAY. IN A -- I WANT TO -- I MEANT TO ASK YOU THIS YESTERDAY. IN A SYSTEM THAT IS HISTORICALLY OLIGOTROPHIC, DO YOU BELIEVE EUTROPHICATION IS A PROBLEM? A. NOT NECESSARILY. Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY NOT NECESSARILY? A. A PROBLEM IMPLIES A VALUE JUDGMENT. Q. OKAY, GIVE ME YOUR VALUE JUDGMENT ON THAT. THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR. A. AS I SAID TO YOU YESTERDAY, MY VIEW ON EUTROPHICATION AND, LIKEWISE, MY VIEW ON OLIGOTROPHIC STATUS DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. Q. OKAY, AND DO YOU HAVE ANY GUIDELINES AS TO WHICH SITUATION MAKES IT GOOD AND WHICH SITUATION MAKES DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 220 IT BAD? A. NOT IN A GENERAL SENSE. I'D APPROACH EACH PROBLEM AS AN INDIVIDUAL. Q. OKAY, AND I BELIEVE YOU TOLD ME YESTERDAY, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY OPINIONS REGARDING THAT QUESTION AS IT RELATES TO THE FLORIDA EVERGLADES. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. GO TO PAGE FIVE, PLEASE. A. THIS IS FIVE ON THE--- Q. EXHIBIT 25--- A. ---EXHIBIT 25. Q. ---IS THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS THE PAGES NUMBERED, FOR SOME REASON. A. OKAY. Q. BEGINNING WITH, "WE BELIEVE..." UNDER DISCUSSION, IT'S ABOUT THE FOURTH LINE DOWN. A. OKAY. Q. OKAY, "WE BELIEVE THAT WATER LEVEL IS IMPORTANT IN CONTROLLING PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION, SINCE WATER LEVEL REPRESENTS THE AMOUNT OF WATER IN THE WETLAND, AND THIS IN TURN CONTROLS REDOX STATUS AND P DYNAMICS." DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT SENTENCE? A. I AGREE WITH THE FIRST PART, WATER LEVEL IS IMPORTANT IN CONTROLLING P CONCENTRATION. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 221 Q. NOW--- A. I HAVE NO COMMENT ON THE SECOND PART. Q. OKAY, NOW ARE YOU AWARE THAT ONE POSITION TAKEN BY THE FARMING INTERESTS IN THIS CASE IS THAT THE PROBLEM IN THE EVERGLADES IS RELATED TO WATER LEVEL AS OPPOSED TO NUTRIENT INFUSION? A. YES. Q. OKAY, AND YOU'RE AWARE THAT THAT'S A DISPUTED ISSUE IN THE CASE? A. YES. Q. A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE IN THE CASE? A. OKAY. Q. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND AT THE TIME OF -- AND THIS STATEMENT TAKES A POSITION ON THAT, DOESN'T IT, ON THAT ISSUE? A. IT INDICATES THAT WATER LEVEL IS IMPORTANT. Q. RIGHT, AND THAT'S A JUDGMENT OR A VALUE, A STATEMENT OF A POSITION BY THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER. A. I CAN'T COMMENT ON THE POSITION OF THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER. IT'S A STATEMENT BY THE AUTHORS OF--- Q. EXHIBIT 25? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 222 A. YEAH. Q. OKAY. AND ALL WE KNOW IS THAT IT WAS PUT OUT UNDER THE NAME OF THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, BUT YOU TOLD ME YOU BELIEVE THAT SONG WROTE IT, AND PERHAPS CONSULTED WITH PROFESSOR RICHARDSON? A. I BELIEVE I TOLD YOU THAT I FEEL THAT SONG WROTE THIS. Q. EXHIBIT 23--- A. 23, AND I FEEL THAT WAY BECAUSE THE STATISTICAL WORK IS LIKELY HIS. Q. AND YOU BELIEVE HE WAS CONSULTED -- HE CONSULTED WITH DR. RICHARDSON? A. I THINK THAT'S LIKELY. Q. OKAY. DO YOU FEEL THAT SONG WAS FAR ENOUGH ALONG IN HIS RESEARCH IN AUGUST OF 1992 TO MAKE STATEMENTS SUCH AS THIS? A. WE BE -- THAT STATEMENT THAT YOU JUST ASKED ME ABOUT? Q. THAT ONE PARTICULARLY. A. I THINK HE WAS FAR ENOUGH ALONG TO MAKE THE FIRST PART OF THE STATEMENT, THAT WATER LEVEL IS IMPORTANT IN CONTROLLING P CONCENTRATION. Q. THIS IS -- THIS IS, I THINK YOU TOLD ME, AN OUTLINE OR A PROPOSAL THAT WAS GOING TO ULTIMATELY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 223 LEAD TO WHAT HE WAS GOING TO PROPOSE TO HIS DISSERTATION COMMITTEE? A. THAT'S -- THAT IS CORRECT. Q. OKAY. DOES IT -- DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH A STUDENT PUBLISHING DOCUMENTS WITH CONCLUSIONS A YEAR BEFORE THEY EVEN TAKE THEIR HYPOTHESIS OR THEIR DISSERTATION PROPOSAL TO THE COMMITTEE? A. FIRST OF ALL, THIS ISN'T A PUBLICATION, IN THE SENSE OF A PUBLICATION. IT'S A PAPER. IT'S A DISCUSSION, AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A STUDENT, IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF A PROPOSAL LOOKING AT DATA AND -- AND BEGINNING TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS. Q. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PUBLICATION AND A PAPER? A. I THINK OF A PUBLICATION AS SOMETHING THAT IS PUBLISHED, PRINTED IN A -- IN A -- EITHER IN A REFEREED JOURNAL OR IN AN OTHERWISE FORMAL BOUND BOOK OR REPORT OR DOCUMENT. Q. WELL, IF SOMEBODY GETS HOLD OF THIS, AND SEES DUKE WETLAND CENTER ON IT, AND DOESN'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE, IS IT FAIR FOR THEIR -- THEM TO ASSUME THAT THIS RESEARCH AND THE CONCLUSIONS MADE HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO PEER REVIEW, REFEREED OR OTHERWISE LOOKED AT BY SOMEBODY? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 224 A. I THINK IT'S -- YOU RAISE QUITE A GAMUT OF REVIEW. I THINK THAT IT IS -- I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY ANYTHING, ACTUALLY. I DON'T -- I CERTAINLY THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THIS HAS BEEN SUBJECT TO PEER REVIEW. Q. NO, MY QUESTION IS, IS IT FAIR FOR SOMEONE TO ASSUME THAT IT HAS BEEN SUBJECT TO ANYTHING--- A. WELL, YOU SAID PEER REVIEW, AND I--- Q. WELL, LET'S -- LET ME LEAVE IT UP TO YOU TO DECIDE WHICH REVIEW. MY QUESTION IS, IF SOMEBODY GETS THIS PAPER AND SEES IT, NOT THE ONE THAT SAYS PRELIMINARY DRAFT, BUT THE FINAL DRAFT, OR THE ONE THAT'S EXHIBIT 23, AND SEES DUKE UNIVERSITY WETLAND CENTER, IS IT FAIR FOR THEM TO ASSUME THAT THIS HAS BEEN SUBJECTED TO SOME METHOD OF REVIEW, BEFORE IT WAS DISTRIBUTED? A. NO. Q. OKAY. AND IS THAT TRUE THROUGHOUT DUKE UNIVERSITY, OR IS THAT JUST TRUE IN THE WETLAND CENTER? A. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT OCCURS. I CAN TELL YOU THAT I, AS I WRITE REPORTS AND MEMOS AND DISCUSSION PAPERS, THEY MAY WELL TAKE THIS FORM; AND I'LL PUT MY NAME ON IT; AND I WILL STAND BEHIND IT; BUT IT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 225 MAY NOT BE REVIEWED BY ANYONE. Q. AND YOU BELIEVE THIS IS COMPARABLE TO A REPORT, A MEMO OR A DISCUSSION PAPER? A. I BELIEVE THIS IS COMPARABLE TO A MEMO OR A DISCUSSION PAPER. Q. AND ARE THOSE TYPICALLY DISTRIBUTED OUTSIDE OF THE DEPARTMENT AT DUKE? A. THERE'S NO TYPICAL ACTION. Q. ARE THOSE EVER SENT TO OUTSIDERS? A. I SUSPECT THAT THEY ARE. Q. NOW, DOES IT SAY ANYWHERE IN THIS PAPER THAT THIS IS -- THAT THIS IS A DISCUSSION PAPER BY A GRADUATE STUDENT WHO'S BEEN IN THE PROGRAM A YEAR AND A HALF, ABOUT SOME RESEARCH THAT HE HOPES TO DO, WHEN HE GETS AROUND TO MAKING A PROPOSAL TO HIS COMMITTEE A YEAR LATER. A. I HAVEN'T READ IT, BUT I SUSPECT IT DOESN'T. Q. YOU'D NEED TO KNOW THAT, WOULDN'T YOU, IN ORDER TO EVALUATE THIS? A. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHO WROTE IT, IF I WAS EVALUATING IT. Q. AND WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH HE WROTE IT? A. IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 226 Q. NOW, WOULD IT BE HELPFUL TO KNOW THAT IN BETWEEN THE PRELIMINARY DRAFT AND THE FINAL DRAFT, A STATEMENT WHICH SUPPORTS THE SUGAR INDUSTRY WAS LEFT IN, AND A STATEMENT THAT IS -- TAKES THE OPPOSITE VIEW FROM THE SUGAR INDUSTRY'S POSITION WAS REMOVED? MR. RUSSELL: OBJECT TO FORM. Q. (BY MR. REID) WOULD THAT BE HELPFUL TO KNOW? MS. STINSON: I JOIN IN THAT. A. I WOULDN'T CARE. Q. AND WOULD IT ALSO BE HELPFUL TO KNOW THAT THE PERSON WHO WROTE THIS, AND PURPORTEDLY MADE THOSE CHANGES THAT I JUST MENTIONED, WAS BEING SUPPORTED BY A FORTY THOUSAND DOLLAR ($40,000.00) GIFT FROM THE SUGAR INDUSTRY? MR. RUSSELL: OBJECT TO FORM. MS. STINSON: OBJECT. A. I WOULDN'T CARE. Q. DO YOU THINK THAT SONG MADE THOSE DECISIONS HIMSELF, TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES; OR DO YOU BELIEVE THEY WERE MADE BY CURTIS RICHARDSON? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. THEY WEREN'T MADE BY YOU? A. THEY WEREN'T MADE BY ME. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 227 Q. WOULD YOU HAVE OMITTED THAT LAST PARAGRAPH FROM THE WORK, IN YOUR ROLE AS THE REVIEWING AND GRADUATE ADVISOR? A. AT THIS STAGE FOR SONG'S WORK, IT WASN'T IMPORTANT, AND I WOULDN'T HAVE -- I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE COMMENTED ON, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. Q. BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU EVER SAW THAT PARAGRAPH OR NOT, BECAUSE THE VERSION I HAVE DOESN'T HAVE YOUR NOTES ON IT--- A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. ---ON EXHIBIT 25. HAVE YOU EVER DONE ANY RESEARCH AT ALL ON PHOSPHORUS IN FLORIDA FRESHWATER WETLANDS? A. NO. Q. HAVE YOU DONE ANY RESEARCH ON PHOSPHORUS IN ANY WETLANDS, AS OPPOSED TO LAKES AND RIVERS? A. NO. Q. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN INSTALLING A SAMPLING STATION, FOR THE PURPOSE OF MONITORING DISCHARGE OR PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION IN WETLANDS? A. NO. Q. OR IN SURFACE WATER, GENERALLY. A. INSTALL--- Q. INSTALLING SAMPLING. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 228 A. NOT INSTALLING; I'VE SAMPLED SURFACE WATERS, BUT NOT INSTALLING STATIONS. Q. BY SAMP -- HOW HAVE YOU DONE THAT? A. SAMPLING DOESN'T HAVE TO INVOLVE SETTING UP A FIXED STATION AND GOING BACK AND LOOKING AT IT. YOU CAN ACTUALLY -- YOU GO OUT IN A BOAT, AND GATHER A WATER SAMPLE, AND TAKE IT BACK TO THE LAB; PROCESS IT. I'VE DONE THAT. Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY UNIQUE ASPECTS OF PHOSPHORUS DYNAMICS, AS THEY EXIST IN FLORIDA WETLAND MARSHES -- OR FLORIDA FRESHWATER WETLANDS, I SHOULD SAY -- THAT WOULD AFFECT THE CHEMICAL ANALYSIS? A. NO. Q. HAVE YOU EVER ANALYZED ANY DATA SETS OR ANY DATA BASE DEALING WITH PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION IN FLORIDA FRESHWATER WETLANDS? A. NO. Q. AND BY THAT, I'M INCLUDING BOTH THE EVERGLADES AGRICULTURAL AREA, AS WELL AS THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS AND THE PARK, AND SO FORTH. A. I DID LOOK AT PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION ASSOCIATED WITH WATER LEVEL, AND WORKED WITH PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 229 Q. AND WHAT -- WHEN WAS THAT? THAT WAS THE WORK ON THE LAKE? A. ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. Q. WAS THAT ON THE LAKE, OR WAS THAT RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES? A. THAT WAS RELATING TO AS YOU DEFINE, THE EVERGLADES, SOUTH OF THE LAKE. Q. OKAY. WHAT DID YOU DO FOR PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK, IN THAT REGARD? A. I LOOKED AT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WATER LEVEL NEAR SOME STRUCTURES AND PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION. Q. DID YOU WRITE A REPORT? A. NO. Q. HOW DID YOU MAKE YOUR FINDINGS KNOWN? A. I DID SOME STATISTICAL ANALYSIS AND GRAPHICS, AND SENT THEM, AS I RECALL, TO RICK BURGESS. Q. OKAY NOW, THIS WAS ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. A. YEAH. Q. AND WHAT STRUCTURES WERE YOU DEALING WITH? MR. RUSSELL: I INSTRUCT -- OTHER THAN IN GENERAL TERMS, I INSTRUCT YOU, DR. RECKHOW TO -- TO NOT ANSWER IT -- THE DETAILS OF THIS WORK, SINCE IT REGARDS NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT TESTIMONY IN ANOTHER PROCEEDING, NOT RELATED DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 230 TO THIS MATER. MR. REID: JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, WHAT PROCEEDING ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? MR. RUSSELL: THE OTHER FEDERAL LAWSUIT. MR. REID: WHEN WERE YOU IN THE FEDERAL LAWSUIT? YOU MEAN THIS WAS DONE AFTER YOU INTERVENED? MS. STINSON: WHETHER IT WAS DONE--- MR. RUSSELL: YEAH, THAT'S IRRELEVANT, WHEN WE WERE ACTUALLY GRANTED INTERVENTION. THE OBJECTION STANDS AND THE INSTRUCTION STANDS. Q. (BY MR. REID) YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY, DID YOU? WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THIS. A. NO, I DIDN'T, SPECIFICALLY, MENTION THIS YESTERDAY. Q. AND I THOUGHT I ASKED YOU TO TELL ME EVERY TIME YOU HAD MET WITH ANY LAWYERS OR DONE ANY WORK RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES, YESTERDAY. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT, THOSE QUESTIONS? A. I DO REMEMBER THAT, YEAH. Q. WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY? A. I DIDN'T REMEMBER UNTIL YOU, SPECIFICALLY, RAISED DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 231 THAT ISSUE. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, TELL ME WHERE YOU DID THIS WORK. A. YOU MEAN WHAT--- Q. PHYSICALLY. A. WHERE I -- WHERE I DID THE WORK? Q. WHAT STRUCTURES WERE YOU DEALING WITH? A. OH, OKAY. I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT STRUCTURES, TWO YEARS AGO. Q. OKAY, AND DID YOU TAKE SAMPLES? A. NO. Q. WHAT DID YOU USE FOR YOUR DATA? A. I USED DATA THAT WERE PROVIDED BY JOHN DAVIS. Q. WHAT KIND OF DATA WAS IT? A. AS I RECALL, IT WAS PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION AND WATER LEVEL DATA. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHO -- WHOSE DATA IT WAS? A. I THINK IT MAY HAVE BEEN THE DISTRICT'S. Q. OKAY. AND YOU -- WHAT WERE YOU, SPECIFICALLY, ASKED TO DO? A. TO LOOK AT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION AND WATER LEVEL. Q. AND WAS THIS FROM A STATISTICAL POINT OF VIEW? A. YES. Q. WHAT METHOD DID YOU USE TO GO ABOUT DOING THIS? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 232 A. I USED REGRESSION ANALYSIS. Q. OKAY. HOW MUCH TIME DID THIS PROJECT TAKE? A. A COUPLE OF DAYS. Q. AND HOW WERE YOU PAID? A. AS A CONSULTANT. Q. AN HOURLY BASIS OR--- A. YES. Q. HOW MUCH AN HOUR? A. PROBABLY A HUNDRED DOLLARS ($100.00) AN HOUR. Q. WAS THERE A LETTER RETAINING YOU TO DO THIS WORK? A. I DON'T REMEMBER. THERE MAY HAVE BEEN. Q. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU COULD, BY THINKING ABOUT OR RELATING IT TO SOMETHING ELSE, THAT YOU COULD TELL ME A LITTLE MORE CLOSELY WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DID THIS? A. I THINK IT WAS EITHER SPRING OR SUMMER OF '91. Q. OKAY. AND YOU DID THIS YOURSELF, AS OPPOSED TO HAVING ANY GRADUATE STUDENTS WORK WITH YOU? A. YES, THAT'S RIGHT, UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND WHEN YOU COMPLETED YOUR WORK, YOU CALLED MR. BURGESS UP? A. I SEEM TO REMEMBER THAT THAT WAS THE FORM OF THE RESPONSE, YEAH; AND ALSO, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, GRAPHS AND STATISTICS. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 233 Q. OKAY. AND YOU SENT THOSE TO MR. BURGESS? A. I THINK I DID. I PROBABLY SENT THEM TO JOHN DAVIS, TOO. Q. AND TO JOHN DAVIS. WHO IS JOHN DAVIS? MR. RUSSELL: I'M -- I DON'T--- Q. (BY MR. REID) WHO'S JOHN DAVIS? A. WE MENTIONED -- TALKED ABOUT THAT YESTERDAY. HE'S A CONSULTANT. Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER TALKED WITH BILL GREEN OR ANYBODY FROM HIS OFFICE ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR WORK? A. I DON'T THINK I DID. Q. HAVE YOU TALKED TO ANYBODY ELSE ABOUT IT? A. I MAY HAVE SPOKEN WITH BILL WALKER ABOUT IT, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. AND WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM ABOUT IT? A. I SAID I DON'T REMEMBER, SO I--- Q. OKAY. DID YOU EVER GIVE THIS WRITTEN MATERIAL TO ANYBODY ELSE? A. I DON'T THINK I DID. Q. OKAY. AND AFTER YOU SENT IT IN, WHAT'S THE NEXT THING YOU HEARD ABOUT IT? MR. RUSSELL: I'M GOING TO INSTRUCT YOU NOT TO ANSWER. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 234 Q. (BY MR. REID) OKAY. WHEN IS THE NEXT TIME ANYBODY ASKED YOU ABOUT THIS? A. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. HAVE YOU EVER DISCUSSED IT SINCE THEN WITH ANYBODY? A. I MAY HAVE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. DID YOU DISCUSS IT WITH SONG WHEN YOU WERE TALKING WITH HIM ABOUT HIS PROPOSAL? A. NO. Q. NOW THIS SEEMS TO BEAR IN SOME PART ON -- TO THE SENTENCE THAT WE WERE FOCUSING ON EARLIER, ABOUT WATER LEVEL AS IT RELATES TO PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION, DOESN'T IT? A. THAT'S RIGHT, THAT REMINDED ME THAT--- Q. OKAY. A. ---OF THE WORK. Q. WHEN YOU WERE REVIEWING EXHIBIT 23 AND YOU SAW THAT SENTENCE IN THERE, DID YOU MENTION THIS TO SONG? A. NO. Q. DID YOUR CONCLUSION THAT YOU DREW FROM THIS WORK SUPPORT THE POSITION THAT HE TOOK, IN THE PAPER? A. THE CONCLUSION FROM THAT WORK THAT YOU--- Q. YES. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 235 A. ---JUST DISCUSSED THAT I DIDN'T -- HAD NO RELATIONSHIP. I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THE TWO IN ANY CONNECTION. Q. DOES IT, IN FACT, RELATE TO THE QUESTION THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT IN THE PAPER, ABOUT THE WATER LEVELS RELATING TO PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION? A. THERE IS A GENERAL RELATIONSHIP IN WATER BODIES THAT DEEPER WATER BODIES TEND TO HAVE LOWER PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS, AND THAT'S JUST GENERAL ACROSS ALL SORTS OF WATER BODIES. Q. IS THAT TRUE IN WETLANDS? A. I DIDN'T SAY IT'S TRUE. IT TENDS TO BE THE CASE. Q. DOES IT TEND TO BE THE CASE IN WETLANDS, AS OPPOSED TO LAKES? A. FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN OF DATA, IT APPEARS TO BE THE CASE. Q. AND WHAT WAS YOUR CONCLUSION, AS A RESULT OF THIS STATISTICAL WORK THAT YOU DID? MR. RUSSELL: I'M GOING TO OBJECT AND INSTRUCT HIM NOT TO ANSWER. MR. REID: BECAUSE HE WAS A NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT IN THE FEDERAL LITIGATION? MR. RUSSELL: BECAUSE HE WAS A DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 236 NON-TESTIFYING EXPERT REGARDING THIS WORK DONE ON BEHALF OF OUR CLIENT; IT HAS NO BEARING, AS HE HAS STATED; NO BEARING ON THIS PROCEEDING. IT CONTINUES TO BE ATTORNEY -- OH, EXCUSE ME -- WORK PRODUCT THAT IS PROTECTED, THAT IS -- I MIGHT ASK DR. RECKHOW. AM I CHARACTERIZING THAT CORRECT? IS IT TRUE THAT NONE OF THIS WORK FORMS THE BASIS FOR THE WORK IN THIS PROCEEDING? WITNESS: THAT IS CORRECT; IT DOESN'T RELATE. MR. REID: WELL, LET ME JUST--- MR. RUSSELL: AND THE--- Q. (BY MR. REID) LET ME MAKE -- LET ME ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. WHEN YOU SAY IT DOESN'T RELATE, YOU MEAN YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THAT AS IT -- AND TALKING TO SONG ABOUT IT? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. BUT IT DOES RELATE FACTUALLY. IT'S THE SAME SUBJECT, ISN'T IT? A. WELL, IT RELATES TO THE EXTENT THAT, AS I SAID YESTERDAY IN A SIMILAR QUESTION, EVERYTHING RELATES TO ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE, IN SOME WAY. Q. WELL, THIS RELATES MORE CLOSELY THAN THAT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 237 A. PERHAPS. Q. YOU WERE LOOKING AT WATER LEVEL AS IT RELATES TO PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION. A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE VARIABLES THAT SONG IS GOING TO BE, SPECIFICALLY, LOOKING AT IN HIS DISSERTATION WORK? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND IN FACT, HE'S MADE A STATEMENT ALREADY THAT THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. SO, WOULDN'T YOU AGREE THAT THEY RELATE DIRECTLY? A. NO, ONLY -- NO MORE THAN I WOULD THAT SOMEONE DOING A REGRESSION ANALYSIS OF CHILDHOOD EDUCATION RELATES TO THIS, BECAUSE IT INVOLVES REGRESSION ANALYSIS. Q. WELL, LET'S JUST HYPOTHETICALLY SAY THAT YOU HAVE DETERMINED IN YOUR STATISTICAL WORK THAT THERE WAS NO CORRELATION BETWEEN WATER LEVEL AND PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION, AND SONG MAKES THE STATEMENT THAT HE MAKES IN HIS PROPOSAL; THEY WOULD RELATE DIRECTLY, WOULDN'T THEY; IF YOU HAD DISCOVERED THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT HE CLAIMS TO HAVE DISCOVERED? A. I EXPECT THERE TO BE A -- MY EXPERIENCE IN TWENTY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 238 YEARS IN WATER -- SURFACE WATER QUALITY STUDIES HAS SHOWN ME THAT IN GENERAL THERE'S A TENDENCY FOR DEPTH AND CONCENTRATION TO RELATE, AND SO I'M NOT SURPRISED. Q. THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION IS, THE WORK THAT YOU DID IS REGARDING THE SAME SUBJECT MATTER, AND IT WAS MOVING TOWARD THE SAME CONCLUSION AS THE WORK THAT SONG IS GOING TO BE DOING? MR. RUSSELL: HE ASKED AND ANSWERED A SIMILAR QUESTION. I'LL INSTRUCT YOU NOT TO ANSWER ANY MORE THAN THAT; THE SPECIFIC DETAILS. MR. REID: I'M ASKING HIM THE QUESTION TO CLARIFY HIS SUBSEQUENT ANSWERS, AND SPECIFICALLY, HIS QUESTION THAT REGRESSION ANALYSIS REGARDING CHILDHOOD--- WITNESS: EDUCATION. MR. REID: ---EDUCATION, RELATES TO REGRESSION ANALYSIS CONCERNING WATER BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH REGRESSION ANALYSES. NOW, I'M ASKING HIM ABOUT THAT SPECIFIC STATEMENT. Q. (BY MR. REID) THE RESULT OF YOUR CHILDHOOD EDUCATION ANALYSIS HAS NO BEARING ON THE RESULT OF YOUR WATER QUALITY ANALYSIS, DOES IT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 239 A. THE -- NOT THE RESULT--- Q. OKAY. A. ---THE INTERPRETATION OF METHODS. Q. SURE, BUT THE RESULT -- IN OTHER WORDS, WHATEVER THE RESULT IS REGARDING CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, WOULD HAVE NO BEARING ON THE RESULT CONCERNING WATER QUALITY. A. THE RESULT, CORRECT. Q. BUT IN THIS CASE, THE RESULT OF YOUR WORK, THE WATER QUALITY -- THE STATISTICAL WORK YOU DID CONCERNING PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION OF WATER LEVEL RELATES DIRECTLY TO THE RESULT OF SONG'S WORK INSOFAR AS HE DEALS WITH WATER DEPTH, WATER LEVEL AS IT RELATES TO PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION. A. IT DOES NOT. Q. WHY NOT? A. BECAUSE I HAVE A PERSPECTIVE THAT PRECEDES THE -- EITHER OF THESE PROJECTS CONCERNING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DEPTH AND CONCENTRATION, AND IT IS BASED ON THAT PERSPECTIVE, THAT I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP IN WETLANDS. Q. BUT THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION IS THAT YOU'RE BOTH--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 240 A. I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. I SAID IT DIDN'T RELATE. Q. MY QUESTION IS THEY BOTH DEAL WITH THE SAME SUBJECT MATTER. A. THEY BOTH DEAL WITH PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION AND DEPTH. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND THEY'RE BOTH LOOKING FOR THE SAME INFORMATION, WHETHER THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP OR NOT. A. THEY'RE BOTH LOOKING TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP. Q. AND IF -- IT WOULD BE INTERESTING FOR THE TRIER OF FACT TO KNOW THAT YOU FOUND THERE WAS NO RELATIONSHIP, HYPOTHETICALLY, AND THAT SONG FOUND THERE WAS A RELATIONSHIP, IF THAT OCCURRED. A. FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AS A SCIENTIST, I -- FINDING A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION AND DEPTH AT THOSE STRUCTURES HAD NO EFFECT ON STRENGTHENING MY BELIEF THAT THERE WAS A RELATIONSHIP IN WETLANDS. Q. BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE A PRE -- YOU HAVE A--- A. YES. Q. ---PRECONCEIVED IDEA THAT YOU KNOW THE ANSWER. A. THAT'S -- I HAVE A SENSE FOR WHAT SHOULD OCCUR. Q. BUT WE'RE TALKING NOW ABOUT WHETHER YOUR WORK IS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 241 GOING TO RELATE TO WHAT HE DOES, AND SO I'M GIVING YOU A HYPOTHETICAL THAT--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---LET'S ASSUME THAT HE FINDS OUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT THEN. LET'S REVERSE IT. YOU FIND THE WATER QUALITY OF THE P CONCENTRATION AS IT RELATES TO WATER LEVEL. LET'S ASSUME THAT IN HIS DISSERTATION WORK HE WRITES A PAPER AND SAYS IT DOESN'T RELATE. NOW, AT THAT POINT, YOUR WORK DOES BEAR ON WHAT HE'S DOING. A. NOT FROM THOSE STRUCTURES. MY A PRIORI BELIEF ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DEPTH AND CONCENTRATION WOULD MAKE ME SURPRISED IF SONG DIDN'T FIND IT. Q. WELL, IF YOU KNEW THE ANSWER, WHY DID YOU HAVE TO DO THIS WORK FOR MR. BURGESS? A. I DIDN'T KNOW THE ANSWER. I EXPECTED THAT THERE WOULD BE A RELATIONSHIP. Q. OKAY. MR. REID: SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LET HIM ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE RESULT OF HIS WORK WAS, STILL? MR. RUSSELL: YES, BASED ON HIS TESTIMONY THAT THE TWO DON'T RELATE. IN DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 242 OTHER WORDS -- IS THAT CORRECT, DR. RECKHOW? IN OTHER WORDS, THE WORK--- WITNESS: DOING THAT WORK ON THE STRUCTURES IS HAVING -- WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON WHAT SONG -- WHAT I DO WITH SONG. MR. RUSSELL: AND YOU'RE NOT RELYING UPON THAT? WITNESS: I'M NOT RELYING ON THAT AT ALL. MR. REID: I THINK YOU'RE PLAYING GAMES COUNSEL, BUT WE'LL GO AHEAD. MR. RUSSELL: OKAY. Q. (BY MR. REID) HAVE YOU -- HAVE YOU REVIEWED ANY MATERIAL RELATING TO THE MODEL THAT TETRA TECH IS WORKING ON? A. NO. Q. ASIDE FROM THIS CONVERSATION WITH MUNSON, I THINK, WHERE HE ASSUMED YOU WERE GOING TO -- YOU WERE DOING SOME MODELING WORK, HAVE YOU HAD ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH ANYBODY ABOUT THAT MODEL? A. ABOUT THE TETRA TECH MODEL? Q. RIGHT. A. NO. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING OR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 243 THAT YOUR GRADUATE STUDENT IS DOING IS PLANNED TO BE INCORPORATED INTO THAT MODEL? A. I DON'T KNOW. THE FACT THAT RON MUNSON CALLED AND EXPRESSED INTEREST SUGGESTS THAT IT MIGHT BE. Q. DO YOU BELIEVE MODELING IS THE BEST APPROACH TO ANSWER QUESTIONS CONCERNING THE ECOLOGY OF THE EVERGLADES, AS OPPOSED TO EMPIRICAL FIELD EXPERIMENTATION? A. I THINK THAT THE -- ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WILL INVOLVE GOOD EXPERIMENTATION, GOOD OBSERVATIONAL DATA AND GOOD SCIENTIFIC JUDGMENT. Q. WELL, CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? A. I DON'T THINK -- I -- AS I -- COULD YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION SO I CAN GET IT EXACTLY? Q. YEAH, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT IF YOU THINK MODELING IS THE BEST APPROACH TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS FACING THE EVERGLADES, AS OPPOSED TO EMPIRICAL, IN THE FIELD TESTING? MR. RUSSELL: I OBJECT TO THE FORM. IT'S A RATHER BROAD QUESTION, THE PROBLEMS FACING THE EVERGLADES. Q. (BY MR. REID) THE EUTROPHICATION, SPECIFICALLY. A. IT IS, BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT'S PHRASED, IT'S A DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 244 DIFFICULT QUESTION TO ANSWER. GIVEN THE WAY IT'S PHRASED, THE ANSWER IS NO. Q. WHY? A. BECAUSE, AS I SAID A MOMENT AGO, I THINK IT'S A MIX OF EXPERIMENTATION, OBSERVATIONAL WORK, AND EXPERT JUDGMENT THAT WILL BE MOST EFFECTIVE IN DEALING WITH THAT ISSUE. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHOSE DATA SET SONG IS GOING TO BE USING IN GOING ABOUT HIS WORK? A. I MENTIONED THAT YESTERDAY. HE WILL BE WORKING WITH WCA-2A DATA AND THE NORTH AMERICAN DATA SETS. Q. I UNDERSTAND, BUT WHOSE WCA-2A DATA? THERE'S SEVERAL DIFFERENT GROUPS. A. THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTAND AND THE DATA THAT'S HE'S ABLE TO OBTAIN. CERTAINLY HE'LL HAVE DATA FROM THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, AND OTHER DATA THAT HE'S ABLE TO OBTAIN. Q. HAVE YOU -- HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER DATA? A. ONLY TO THE EXTENT OF WHAT SONG -- WHAT SONG HAS LOOKED AT IN THIS REPORT. MR. REID: OKAY. I'M GOING TO INTERRUPT MY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME, AND LET THE UNITED DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 245 STATES ASK SOME QUESTIONS, BECAUSE -- SINCE WE'RE NOT GOING TO FINISH TODAY, I THINK IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE FOR THEM, BECAUSE HE HAS SOME QUESTIONS TO FOLLOW UP THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN COVERED NOW, AND THAT LOGICALLY I THINK IT MAKES BETTER SENSE. SO, WE'LL MOVE AHEAD FOR THE NEXT HOUR AND HALF ON THAT. (THEREUPON, A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) EXAMINATION BY MR. FITZGERALD: Q. DR. RECKHOW, I'M TOM WATTS FITZGERALD REPRESENTING THE UNITED STATES IN THIS ACTION, AND I DON'T RECALL IF MR. REID TOLD YOU. HE PROBABLY DIDN'T, JUST TO CONFUSE YOU; BUT AT THE OUTSET, I WOULD SAY, IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MY QUESTIONS, BECAUSE USUALLY I WON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASK OR USE THE RIGHT TERMINOLOGY THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU, PLEASE JUST TELL ME AND WE'LL TRY AND SORT OUT WHAT THE QUESTION WAS REALLY MEANT TO ASK, AND WHETHER THERE IS AN ANSWER OR NOT. AND IF YOU NEED TO TAKE A BREAK OR JUST WANT TO STRETCH YOUR LEGS AT ANY POINT, IF YOU WOULD JUST TELL ME THAT, I'D BE HAPPY TO. WHAT I SORT OF PLANNED TO DO, SINCE WE CAN'T FINISH TODAY, OBVIOUSLY, IN ANY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 246 EVENT, BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE FINAL OPINIONS, THAT MAYBE YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO HAVE, I'M JUST GOING TO TRY AND SORT OF FILL IN SOME POINTS FOLLOWING ON MR. REID'S QUESTIONING THAT LEFT QUESTIONS IN MY MIND, OR JUST THINGS I WAS INTERESTED IN; AND THEN MAYBE LOOK AT A LITTLE BACKGROUND MATERIAL COMING OUT OF THE DOCUMENTATION THAT YOU PROVIDED. AND THEN WE'LL JUST SEE HOW FAR THAT GETS US TODAY. WITH -- THIS WILL BE SOMEWHAT UNFOCUSED, I GUESS, BECAUSE IT DERIVES FROM THE NOTES AND THE ORDER IN WHICH I WROTE THEM; BUT PICKING UP AT THE END OF MR. REID, AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO YESTERDAY. YOUR ROLE AS AN ADVISOR OR COUNSELOR TO A DISSERTATION STUDENT, WHAT ACTUALLY DOES THAT ENTAIL? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO ON A DAILY OR WEEKLY BASIS TO ASSIST THAT STUDENT IN PROGRESSING SATISFACTORILY TOWARDS THE DOCTORATE? A. MY ROLE IS, AS AN ADVISOR TO A Ph.D. STUDENT INVOLVES, EARLY IN THE PROGRAM, ADVISING OR DISCUSSING WITH OR CONSULTING WITH THE STUDENT ON DIRECTION, THAT MANIFESTS ITSELF IN COURSES THAT ARE SELECTED IN MAJOR AND MINOR CONCENTRATION AREAS. MY ROLE THEN IS TO DISCUSS WITH THE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 247 STUDENTS -- THE STUDENT, THE NATURE OF THE Ph.D. DISSERTATION; WHAT THE CONTRIBUTION IS GOING TO BE; WHAT THE TOPICS WILL BE; THE MAKEUP OF THE DISSERTATION COMMITTEE; AND THEN DURING THE CONDUCT OF THE DISSERTATION, MY ROLE IS TO PROVIDE ADVICE; CONSULTATION ON THE ACTUAL WORK, AND THEN ULTIMATELY TO SERVE AS COMMITTEE CHAIR WHEN THAT WORK IS PRESENTED FOR APPROVAL OF THE DISSERTATION. Q. IN PROVIDING SORT OF THE TECHNICAL OVERSIGHT AND ADVICE TO THE WORK THAT'S BEING DONE, DOES THAT REQUIRE YOU TO BRING TO BEAR ON THAT ALL OF YOUR BACKGROUND AND EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE IN THE FIELD THAT THE STUDENT IS PURSUING? A. IT SHOULD. Q. SO, I ASSUME, THEN, THERE'S REALLY NO WAY TO SEGREGATE OUT; I MEAN, YOU'VE DESCRIBED ROUGHLY A TWENTY YEAR CAREER IN SURFACE WATER QUALITY ISSUES, SO YOU WOULD BRING ALL THAT EXPERIENCE TO BEAR? A. AS IT RELATES TO WHAT THE STUDENT'S DOING, YES. Q. AND I ASSUMED FROM SOMETHING YOU SAID THAT THIS GENERAL NOTION YOU HAVE, OR EXPECTATION THAT WATER DEPTH HAS A RELATIONSHIP TO PHOSPHORUS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 248 CONCENTRATION, IS EXACTLY THAT SORT OF INFORMATION OF A GENERALIZED BACKGROUND NATURE THAT YOU WOULD RELY UPON IN EVALUATING; YOU KNOW, DOES THIS LOOK RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IS THERE AN OBVIOUS PROBLEM IN A LINE ANALYSIS OR DATA SET? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. WILL THERE BE ANY FIELDWORK OR FIELD SAMPLING DONE IN SUPPORT OF QIAN SONG'S WORK? A. I WON'T BE INVOLVED IN THAT FIELD COLLECTION, IF THERE IS ANY, AND I WON'T BE INVOLVED IN GUIDING IT. SONG HAS EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN GAINING FIELD EXPERIENCE AS PART OF THE OVERALL LEARNING EXPERIENCE, AND WHETHER THAT OCCURS, I DON'T KNOW. Q. TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, TO DATE, HAS HE BEEN INVOLVED IN ANY OF THE FIELD DOSING STUDIES OR EXPERIMENTAL WORK BEING CONDUCTED BY THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER IN WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A? A. I DON'T BELIEVE HE'S BEEN TO FLORIDA FOR ANY OF THAT WORK. Q. GIVEN HIS POSITION OR ROLE AT THE WETLAND CENTER AS A DISSERTATION CANDIDATE OR Ph.D. CANDIDATE, DOES HE DO ANY LAB WORK OR DIRECT HANDS-ON ANALYSIS OF FIELD SAMPLING? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 249 A. I DON'T BELIEVE SO. I THINK HIS ROLE IS JUST CONFINED TO THAT SUPPORT FROM THE GIFT, DIRECTED TOWARDS PURSUING THE DISSERTATION. Q. APART FROM HIS APPARENT DESIRE TO GARNER THIS FIELD EXPERIENCE, IS THERE -- OR HAS THERE BEEN ANY DISCUSSION BETWEEN YOU AND SONG; OR YOU, SONG AND DR. RICHARDSON ABOUT DESIGNING A SAMPLING PROGRAM THAT WOULD DOVETAIL INTO THE TYPE OF ANALYSIS HE'S INTERESTED IN CONDUCTING? A. AS I RECALL, LAST SUMMER, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DESIRABILITY OF COLLECTING DATA ON DESIGNS, ON SPECIFIC DESIGNS, BECAUSE OF INADEQUACIES OF EXISTING DATA. BUT THAT DIDN'T GO BEYOND THE DISCUSSION STAGE OF -- WOULDN'T IT BE NICE IF WE HAD THE DATA. Q. WHAT INADEQUACIES IN THE DATA WERE IDENTIFIED AT THAT POINT THAT RAISED THIS ISSUE? A. AS I RECALL, IT DEALT TO A LARGE DEGREE WITH THE DESIRE TO HAVE MORE WATER COLUMN PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION DATA. Q. OUT OF 2A ONLY? A. 2A. Q. WAS DR. RICHARDSON ABLE TO PROVIDE ANY REASSURANCE THAT MORE SUCH DATA WOULD BE FORTHCOMING? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 250 A. I DON'T THINK THAT HE DID. Q. YOU MENTIONED A PROJECT YOU WORKED ON WITH TETRA TECH IN THE ADIRONDACKS REGARDING ACIDIFICATION OF LAKES. WAS THAT RELATED TO THE NATIONAL ACID RAIN PROGRAM THAT WAS SIMILAR TO THE PHOSPHORUS PROGRAM YOU DESCRIBED OF TWENTY YEARS AGO? A. NO. THIS ACTUALLY WAS A PROJECT FUNDED BY THE ADIRONDACK LAKE SURVEY CORPORATION, A CONSORTIUM OF POWER COMPANIES. Q. AND WHAT WAS THE FOCUS OF THAT? A. IT WAS TO PROVIDE A -- AN EXTREMELY DETAILED DATA SET ON ACIDIFICATION RELATED CHEMISTRY IN A NUMBER OF LAKES IN THE ADIRONDACKS, AND SUBSEQUENT STATISTICAL ANALYSIS AND INFERENCE. Q. IS THERE A RELATIONSHIP, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, BETWEEN pH LEVELS IN SURFACE WATER BODIES, AND PHOSPHORUS BIOCHEMICAL PROCESSES? A. I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY. AND THAT'S BECAUSE I'M NOT A CHEMIST THAT I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY. Q. IN DOING THE ANALYSIS THAT SONG IS GOING TO ATTEMPT, RELATING PHOS -- OR GIVING AN EMPIRICAL MODEL FOR PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE, DON'T RELATED CHEMICAL PROCESSES HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED, IN ORDER DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 251 TO ASSURE NO SKEWNESS IN HIS INTERPRETATION? A. I WILL DEPEND ON MEMBERS OF HIS COMMITTEE TO PROVIDE THE SUBSTANTIVE GUIDANCE IN ECOLOGY AND CHEMISTRY. CERTAINLY, WHAT HE COMES UP WITH HAS TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THOSE SCIENCES. Q. IS IT FAIR TO SAY WHAT YOU'RE -- THE POINT LINE IN WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS THAT YOU HAVE TO RELATE A MODEL AND MODEL INTERPRETATION, WHICH CAN KIND OF OCCUR IN A REMOTE OR IVORY TOWER SENSE, TO THE REAL WORLD ENVIRONMENT? A. YES, THAT'S ONE INTERPRETATION, YES. Q. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN INSTANCES WHERE, YOU KNOW, A PURE ACADEMIC MODEL COULD BE CONSTRUCTED THAT IN APPLICATION TO THE PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENT WAS FOUND TO, IN FACT, HAVE NO PREDICTIVE OR DECISION-MAKING VALUE? A. YES, WITH REGARDS TO LITTLE PREDICTIVE AND DECISION-MAKING VALUE. Q. YOU MENTIONED THE COMMITTEE AGAIN, AND THAT YOU WOULD CHAIR IT IN YOUR ROLE AS THE FACULTY ADVISOR. WAS I CORRECT IN UNDERSTANDING EARLIER THAT THAT COMMITTEE HAS NOT BEEN FORMED AS YET? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. HAS THERE BEEN ANY DISCUSSION OF WHO THE NECESSARY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 252 MEMBERS OF SUCH A COMMITTEE WOULD BE FOR THIS TYPE OF DISSERTATION? A. I THINK SONG AND I HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES. Q. HAVE YOU SPOKEN IN TERMS OF DISCIPLINES OR ACTUAL NAMES? A. NAMES. Q. WHO HAVE YOU BEEN CONSIDERING FOR THAT PURPOSE? A. CURT RICHARDSON, IN -- FROM THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT, AND ROBERT WOLPERT FROM STATISTICS AND DECISION SCIENCES. Q. WHOSE SUGGESTION WAS THE INCLUSION OF DR. RICHARDSON, YOURS OR--- A. IT PROBABLY WAS BOTH OF OURS, BECAUSE BOTH OF US WOULD -- I CERTAINLY WANT HIM ON THE COMMITTEE, AND I SUSPECT SONG DOES, TOO. Q. SO, IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY THEN, THAT SONG'S RELATIONSHIP WITH DR. RICHARDSON, BOTH NOW AND IN THE FUTURE, IS GOING TO BE AN INVOLVED AND EXTENSIVE ONE? A. YES. Q. YOU INDICATED THAT FOR SOME PERIOD IN THE PAST, AND PERHAPS CURRENTLY AS WELL, SONG, AS IS NORMAL, APPARENTLY, FOR Ph.D. CANDIDATES HERE, WORKED AS A DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 253 TEACHING ASSISTANT? A. YES. Q. FOR WHOM HAS HE BEEN A TEACHING ASSISTANT? A. I -- HE'S A TEACHING ASSISTANT FOR ME, NOW, IN DECISION AND RISK ANALYSIS. AS I RECALL, HE WAS A TEACHING ASSISTANT FOR BRYANT BROWNE IN WATERSHED HYDROLOGY IN THE SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT; AND I BELIEVE, HE WAS A TEACHING ASSISTANT IN A STATISTICS COURSE, BUT I'M NOT CERTAIN. Q. NOW, YOU DESCRIBED SOME WORK YOU DID ON YOUR CONTRACT WITH THE DISTRICT AS SUBCOMMITTEE -- OR CHAIR OF A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE TOC--- A. YES. Q. ---ON WATER QUALITY MONITORING, WAS IT? A. YES. Q. DID THAT SUBCOMMITTEE COMPLETE ITS WORK? A. I DON'T KNOW. WE'VE -- I DON'T THINK SO, BUT THAT'S NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFINE. THAT'S -- THE TOC WILL DETERMINE THAT. Q. WELL, WHAT ACTUALLY DID YOU DO IN CONNECTION WITH THAT? A. THAT WORK BEGAN ABOUT A YEAR AGO. I PARTICIPATED IN TOC MEETINGS, AND OFFERED COMMENTS -- WRITTEN AND ORAL COMMENTS AT THE MEETINGS I ATTENDED DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 254 CONCERNING MONITORING. AND, OH, GEE, LAST MAY OR JUNE, THE CHAIRS OF THE MONITORING COMMITTEE, BILL WALKER AND MYSELF; AND THE CHAIRS OF THE RESEARCH COMMITTEE, BOB WETZEL AND DAVID LANE, WERE ASKED TO COME TO WEST PALM BEACH TO THE DISTRICT AND BE LOCKED IN A ROOM AND NOT COME OUT UNTIL WE HAD PRODUCED A RESEARCH AND MONITORING PLAN. Q. PRIOR TO YOUR INVOLVEMENT WITH DR. WALKER ON THIS SUBCOMMITTEE, HAD YOU HAD ANY PERSONAL DEALINGS WITH HIM IN THE PAST? A. I'VE KNOWN BILL WALKER FOR ALMOST TWENTY YEARS. Q. WERE YOU AT HARVARD TOGETHER? A. YES. Q. I ASSUME, THEN, YOU HAVE AS HIGH AN OPINION OF HIM AS HE HAS OF YOU? A. YES. Q. WERE YOU PRESENT AT TOC OR TOC SUBCOMMITTEE MEETINGS OTHER THAN THE SUBCOMMITTEE THAT YOU CO-CHAIRED? A. WELL, I WAS PRESENT AT PERHAPS FOUR OR FIVE TOC MEETINGS, YEAH. Q. WERE BRIEFINGS PROVIDED BY NON-TOC MEMBERS ON SELECT SUBJECTS AT THE MEETINGS YOU ATTENDED? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 255 A. I THINK THEY MAY HAVE BEEN. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE CASE. Q. DID YOU KEEP HANDOUTS FROM THE TOC MEETINGS THAT YOU ATTENDED? A. YEAH. Q. SO, YOU'D BE ABLE TO TELL FROM THE HANDOUTS WHAT MEETINGS YOU WERE AT, OR DO YOU PERHAPS HAVE A CALENDAR THAT WOULD SHOW? A. I HAVE A CALENDAR, WHICH WOULD INDICATE WHEN I WENT TO MEETINGS, YEAH. MR. FITZGERALD: DO YOU THINK YOU COULD PROVIDE THAT TO US AS A SUPPLEMENT, THE LISTING OF THE TOC MEETINGS THAT DR. RECKHOW ATTENDED? I DON'T THINK TOC NECESSARILY KEPT ANY KIND OF FORMAL LIST OF, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE WHO WERE NOT ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING. MS. STINSON: YEAH, I WOULD SUGGEST WRITING ME A LETTER REQUESTING THAT, BUT WE COULD DO THAT. MR. FITZGERALD: I WILL ADD THAT, YEAH. THAT'S NO BIG PROBLEM IF -- IT'S THAT, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF THE STUFF IS STASHED AWAY SOMEWHERE, MAYBE WE'LL FIND IT SOMEHOW. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 256 WITNESS: OKAY. I'VE GOT THAT. Q. (BY MR. FITZGERALD) DO YOU RECALL WHO MADE ANY OF THOSE, SORT OF CAMEO APPEARANCES AND PRESENTATIONS? A. NOT PRECISELY. MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT WE HAD PRESENTATIONS EITHER FROM DISTRICT STAFF OR STATE AGENCY STAFF. Q. IN DESIGNING OR ASSISTING IN THE DESIGN OF A WATER QUALITY MONITORING SYSTEM, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO REVIEW THE EXISTING LOCATIONS OF MONITORING STATIONS MAINTAINED BY THE VARIOUS AGENCIES PARTICIPATING IN TOC? A. NOT TO THIS POINT, WE HAVEN'T. OUR DESIGN -- OUR REPORT THAT WE PRODUCED AFTER THAT TWO-DAY MEETING I MENTIONED A FEW MINUTES AGO, WAS MORE GENERAL IN ITS GUIDANCE, AND WAS NOT SPECIFIC WITH REGARDS TO LOCATIONS AND TIMES AND FREQUENCIES AND SO ON. Q. OKAY. DID -- AS PART OF CONSIDERING THAT, WAS THERE NO CONSIDERATION OF THE EXISTING SYSTEM; HOW IT WAS SET UP AND ITS PHILOSOPHY IN TERMS OF TIME--- A. NO. ON THE CONTRARY, WE, BILL WALKER AND I FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT THE -- THAT SUBSEQUENT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 257 MONITORING HAD TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT ALREADY EXISTED, AND SO THAT WAS A -- THAT WAS A STRONGLY STATED POINT. Q. SO, IT WOULD BE A FAIR UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE TYPE OF SAMPLING THAT HAD BEEN DONE, HISTORICALLY, BY THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS IN CERTAIN PLACES? A. NO. BECAUSE OUR -- AS I SAID A MOMENT AGO, OUR GUIDANCE WAS GENERAL, AND IT WAS TO THE EFFECT OF SAYING, BEFORE YOU DESIGN A PROGRAM, LOOK AT WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE, AND HAVE YOUR DESIGN FILL IN AS NEEDED. WE WERE TO -- I SPOKE WITH TOM FONTAINE WHEN I WAS DOWN AT THE DISTRICT IN EARLY FEBRUARY FOR THE -- THE TRIP WAS FOR THE LAKE OKEECHOBEE DECISION ANALYSIS, AND WE TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED A MEETING INVOLVING TOM FONTAINE, BILL WALKER AND MYSELF AT THE DISTRICT FOR MID-FEBRUARY. AND I HAD TO CANCEL BECAUSE OF A SCHEDULE CONFLICT, BUT THAT MEETING WAS TO BEGIN THE WORK YOU JUST IDENTIFIED. Q. WERE YOU AWARE, AT THE TIME YOU WERE DOING THIS WORK, THAT THE DISTRICT, FOR EXAMPLE, HAD BEEN COLLECTING WATER QUALITY DATA, AT ITS MAJOR STRUCTURES, DISCHARGING FROM THE EVERGLADES DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 258 AGRICULTURAL AREA, INTO THE EVERGLADES PROTECTION AREA, AS DEFINED IN THE SWIM PLAN? A. I WAS AWARE THAT THE DISTRICT HAD AN EXTENSIVE WATER QUALITY MONITORING PROGRAM, BUT HADN'T LOOKED AT THE SPECIFICS. Q. THE DATA SET THAT YOU DESCRIBED, PROVIDED TO YOU BY DR. JOHN DAVIS, FROM ESP, FOR THE WORK YOU DID TWO YEARS AGO, THAT WAS DISTRICT DATA FROM THAT MONITORING SYSTEM? A. MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT WAS. Q. WERE YOU PROVIDED BY DR. DAVIS A DATA SET FOR LAKE OKEECHOBEE AS PART OF THAT? A. NOT AS PART OF THAT PROJECT. AS PART OF THE WORK THAT I MENTIONED YESTERDAY--- Q. THE EARLIER? A. ---ON LAKE -- THE EARLIER WORK ON LAKE OKEECHOBEE, WE WERE. Q. SO, YOU WERE AWARE FROM THE EARLIER WORK THAT WATER QUALITY DATA WAS DEVELOPED AND MAINTAINED FOR THE DISCHARGE POINTS FROM LAKE OKEECHOBEE? A. I WAS AWARE THAT THERE WAS A SUBSTANTIAL INPUT, OUTPUT, AND IN-LAKE WATER QUALITY DATA SET FOR OKEECHOBEE, YES. Q. WERE YOU AWARE OF THE DATA SET FOR INFLOWS TO DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 259 EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK, FROM THE S-12 AND S-333 STRUCTURES? A. I CAN'T COMMENT WITH REGARDS TO SPECIFIC STRUCTURES, BUT AS I MENTIONED, I WAS AWARE THERE WAS AN EXTENSIVE DISTRICT WATER QUALITY DATA SET IN THE EVERGLADES. Q. IN YOUR WORK WITH THE TOC SUBCOMMITTEE, WITH THEIR REVIEW OF THE PORTIONS OF THE SWIM PLAN YOU REVIEWED, WERE YOU AWARE THAT THE FOUR MAJOR DISCHARGE STRUCTURES FROM THE EAA, FROM THE AGRICULTURAL AREA, S-5A, S-6, S-7 AND S-8, BEING THEIR NUMBERS, WERE ALSO SITES OF DATA COLLECTION FOR -- BY THE DISTRICT? A. AS I SAID BEFORE, I WAS AWARE OF THE EXTENSIVE DATA SET. MY REVIEW DIDN'T INVOLVE SPECIFIC -- LOOK AT SPECIFIC WATER QUALITY DATA FOR THE MONITORING TO THIS POINT IN TIME. Q. TO DO A REGRESSION ANALYSIS ON DATA, YOU WOULD NEED A FAIRLY SIZEABLE DATA SET FROM THE SPECIFIC POINT, TO HAVE ANY VALIDITY, WOULD YOU NOT? A. TO DO A REGRESSION ANALYSIS ON DATA, YOU NEED A DATA SET WITH A RESPONSE VARIABLE AND A PREDICTOR VARIABLE, AT A MINIMUM. Q. IN THE WORK YOU DID TWO YEARS AGO, WHAT PREDICTOR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 260 VARIABLE DID YOU USE? MR. RUSSELL: I'M GOING TO TAKE A BREAK FOR JUST A MINUTE. (THEREUPON, MR. RUSSELL LEAVES CONFERENCE ROOM.) A. I WAS PREDICTING PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION. Q. FROM WATER DEPTH? A. FROM WATER DEPTH. Q. SO, THAT WOULD BE THE RESPONSE VARIABLE? A. THE RESPONSE VARIABLE WAS THE PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION, AND THE PREDICTOR VARIABLE WAS WATER DEPTH. Q. WATER DEPTH? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. YOU STATED EARLIER THAT YOU EXPECTED TO SEE A RELATIONSHIP, BASED ON ALL YOUR PRIOR EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE IN THE AREA WHICH I PRESUME INCLUDES THE PHOSPHORUS STUDY FROM TWENTY YEARS BACK, THAT DATA COLLECTION AND OTHER THINGS? A. YES. Q. DID YOU FIND -- WELL, AS I UNDERSTOOD YOUR TESTIMONY YESTERDAY, YOUR PRIOR WORK IN THIS AREA, PRIMARILY, WAS RELATED TO STREAMS AND FRESHWATER LAKES? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 261 A. LAKES, PRIMARILY. Q. LAKES, OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER HAD OCCASION TO EXAMINE, SPECIFICALLY, THE DIFFERENCES IN PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE DYNAMICS BETWEEN LAKE SYSTEMS AND WETLAND SYSTEMS? A. NO, THAT HASN'T BEEN A PART OF RESEARCH THAT I'VE CONDUCTED. Q. AT ONE POINT, AS YOU MAY BE AWARE, DR. RICHARDSON PRESENTED TO THE -- ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE SAGE COMMITTEE? A. I'M JUST FAMILIAR WITH ITS EXISTENCE, YEAH. Q. AT ONE POINT, AS YOU MAY OR MAY NOT BE AWARE, DR. RICHARDSON MADE A PRESENTATION TO SAGE IN WHICH HE PRESENTED SOME STATISTICAL ANALYSIS SUGGESTING CERTAIN SETTLING RATES IN WCA-2A, BASED ON TRANSECT DATA THAT HE HAD COLLECTED; BUT IN DEFENDING THE PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE RATE OR SETTLING RATE, IDENTIFIED IN HIS DOCUMENTATION, HE STATED THAT HE WAS NOT REALLY A STATISTICIAN AND HE HADN'T REALLY WORKED UP THE NUMBERS AND KIND OF -- WELL, LET'S JUST SAY THAT IT DIDN'T COME TO CLOSURE ON THAT DAY. HAD YOU HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT OR REVIEW CAPACITY ON THAT PARTICULAR SETTLING RATE ANALYSIS? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 262 Q. NO. A. DO YOU KNOW WHO DID IT? A. NO. Q. WOULD YOU KNOW, NECESSARILY, IF SONG, FOR EXAMPLE, HAD CONTRIBUTED TO THAT? A. I PROBABLY WOULD KNOW. Q. GOING BACK TO THE BUSINESS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DEPTH AND CONCENTRATIONS, DID YOU FIND, BASED ON ALL YOUR WORK AND EXPERIENCE, THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WAS AS PRONOUNCED IN WETLANDS DATA SETS AVAILABLE TO YOU, THAT YOU ANALYZED, AS YOU HAD SEEN IN LAKE COMMUNITIES? A. IT DID NOT -- IT DIDN'T -- THE STUDIES -- THE STUDY IN THE WETLANDS AND AT THOSE STRUCTURES, AND THE WORK I'VE DONE IN THE PAST, WERE OF A DIFFERENT ENOUGH NATURE, THAT THEY DIDN'T IMMEDIATELY RELATE TO EACH OTHER, OTHER THAN TO SAY THAT DEEPER WATER BODIES TEND TO HAVE LOWER CONCENTRATIONS. THE EXACT STATISTICAL RELATIONSHIPS WERE LOOKED AT IN A DIFFERENT ENOUGH WAY THAT IT WASN'T A -- THERE WASN'T THE IMMEDIATE COMPARISON AND THERE WAS NO REASON TO COMPARE, SO I DIDN'T LOOK AT THAT ISSUE. Q. DID YOU EVER CONSIDER WHETHER THAT'S SIMPLY A DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 263 FUNCTION OF THE QUALITY OF THE -- AND SOURCE OF INFLOWS THAT WOULD ESTABLISH THE GREATER DEPTHS OR RESIDENCE TIMES? A. I EXPECTED IT, AGAIN, BECAUSE OF EXPERIENCE. I ALSO EXPECTED IT BECAUSE IT'S A GENERAL -- IT'S A GENERAL DESIGN CRITERION FOR SETTLING BASINS; AND SO, I JUST EXPECT THAT DEEPER WATER BODIES WILL HAVE LESSER CONCENTRATION, SO I WASN'T SURPRISED. Q. HAVE YOU HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT IN THE DESIGN OR STATISTICAL ANALYSIS OF SETTLING PONDS OR BASINS FOR EITHER NUTRIENT OR OTHER MATERIAL REMOVAL FROM WASTEWATER TREATMENT OR THE RELATED FIELDS? A. NOT SINCE A CLASS PROJECT IN GRADUATE SCHOOL. Q. WHAT PROJECT WAS THAT? A. THIS WAS JUST PART OF A CLASS ASSIGNMENT TWENTY YEARS AGO. I LOOKED AT SETTLING BASINS AND DESIGN FOR TRAPPING CONTAMINATES. Q. IN BRINGING ALL YOUR EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE TO BEAR ON ADVISING AND REVIEWING THE DISSERTATION EFFORTS AND THE PRELIMINARY EFFORTS BY MR. SONG, WON'T YOU NECESSARILY BE APPLYING, AS WELL, THE KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING AND CONCLUSIONS YOU DREW FROM THE WORK YOU DID FOR PEEPLES, EARL TWO YEARS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 264 AGO ON THE DISCHARGE STRUCTURES IN THE EAA? A. I -- AS I HAD MENTIONED BEFORE THE BREAK, I DON'T SEE HOW THAT IS GOING TO RELATE AT ALL, OTHER THAN IN THE GENERAL SENSE OF DEPTH; CONCENTRATION RELATIONSHIPS. Q. DR. RICHARDSON, DURING HIS DEPOSITION, SAID YOU HAD BEEN RETAINED BY THE CO-OP IN 1992. WOULD THAT STATEMENT BY DR. RICHARDSON SQUARE WITH YOUR RECOLLECTION OR ASSIST YOU AT ALL IN KIND OF NARROWING DOWN WHEN THAT OCCURRED OR--- MS. STINSON: OBJECTION. MR. FITZGERALD: YOU CAN STILL ANSWER IT. WITNESS: OH, OKAY. A. THE CO-OP IS -- AS I UNDERSTAND -- I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER BEEN RETAINED BY THE CO-OP. Q. YOU UNDERSTAND THE CO-OP IS REPRESENTED BY BILL GREEN, AND--- A. YES. Q. ---RETAINS CURTIS POLLMAN, THE PEOPLE TO WHOM YOU WERE SENDING THE REPORTS? A. YEAH, I DON'T -- YEAH, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE TO BEN, I -- MY WORK WITH BILL GREEN INVOLVES THE GIFTS TO THE WETLAND CENTER; AND AS SONG'S DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 265 ADVISOR. I'M NOT A CONSULTANT TO THEM. Q. SO, TO THE EXTENT DR. RICHARDSON SAID THAT, THEN, IT WAS -- IT WOULD BE IN YOUR VIEW THEN, JUST A LOOSE USE OF THE TERM RETAINED? A. I THINK THAT'S THE CASE, YEAH. Q. DOES THE WETLAND CENTER, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAVE ANY MECHANISM IN PLACE FOR DISTRIBUTING SUCH PRELIMINARY REPORTS OR SIMPLY REPORTS AS EXHIBITS 23 AND 25 TO MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC, WHO HAVE NO CONTRACTUAL OR ACADEMIC RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CENTER? A. I CAN'T--- MR. RUSSELL: OBJECTION TO FORM. A. ---I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE CENTER. I DON'T THINK -- MY HUNCH IS THEY DON'T HAVE A GENERAL APPROACH TO THIS. IT WOULD DEPEND ON EACH INDIVIDUAL DOCUMENT. Q. DID YOU, TO YOUR RECOLLECTION, EVER PROVIDE EITHER 23 OR 25 TO MR. GREEN OR TO CURTIS POLLMAN? A. GEE, I DON'T THINK THAT I DID. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR STUDENT, SONG, DID SO? A. HE MAY HAVE. Q. BUT YOU DON'T--- A. I DON'T--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 266 Q. ---YOU DON'T KNOW? A. NO, HUH-UH (NO). Q. IN YOUR WORK BACK ON LAKE OKEECHOBEE, SOMETIME BACK, DID YOU DO A BAYESIAN ANALYSIS? MR. RUSSELL: I'M GOING TO INSTRUCT HIM NOT TO ANSWER IT, UNLESS IT'S -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW -- ARE YOU BACK ON THE WORK THAT WAS DONE ON BEHALF OF--- MR. FITZGERALD: NO. I SAID LAKE OKEECHOBEE. WITNESS: THIS IS FOR--- MR. FITZGERALD: THIS IS THE OTHER LAKE. WITNESS: ---LANDIS AND PARSONS, IS THAT--- MR. RUSSELL: OKAY, YEAH, THAT'S -- YEAH, YEAH, THAT'S ALSO ON BEHALF OF MY CLIENT. AND I'M GOING TO INSTRUCT YOU NOT TO ANSWER ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF THAT. YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE GENERALITIES OF WHAT THE WORK WAS. IF IT'S--- MR. FITZGERALD: COUNSEL, I'M ASKING ONLY GENERALITIES. WITNESS: YEAH. MR. RUSSELL: YEAH, AND SINCE I'M NOT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 267 SURE WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AS A -- IF IT'S A GENERAL QUESTION ABOUT IT, THAT'S FINE. A. NO. Q. DID YOU USE THE SEASONAL KENDALL TEST? A. NO. Q. CAN YOU DISTINGUISH FOR ME THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SEASONAL KENDALL AND THE KENDALL TAU? A. YEAH. THE KENDALL TAU IS A -- IS A NON-PARAMETRIC MEASURE OF ASSOCIATION OR CORRELATION THAT WAS PROPOSED BY KENDALL, A STATISTICIAN. A SEASONAL KENDALL IS AN ADOPTION OF THAT STATISTIC, FOR THE PURPOSE OF LOOKING AT -- TESTING FOR TRENDS IN SERIES DATA WHEN THERE IS A SEASONAL PATTERN IN THE DATA. Q. WHAT DOES SEASONAL PATTERN MEAN? A. SEASONAL PATTERN REFERS TO THE FACT THAT THERE -- THAT IN -- IF I CAN BE SPECIFIC WITH REGARDS TO CONCENTRATION, CONCENTRATION IS AFFECTED, OR VARIES IN A SYSTEMATIC WAY, SEASON BY SEASON. Q. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SEASON IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF YOU KNOW, SUMMER, FALL, WINTER, OR ARE YOU TALKING MONTHLY, OR? A. SEASON CAN BE -- SEASON CAN BE DEFINED HOWEVER YOU DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 268 WOULD LIKE TO, WITHIN THE CONSTRAINTS OF THE STATISTICAL PROGRAM. Q. SO, YOU VIEW IT AS ANOTHER PARAMETER THAT'S SUBJECT TO DEFINITION? A. WELL, YES, IT COULD BE DEFINED AS THE TRADITIONAL FALL, SPRING, OR MONTHLY, OR WEEKLY. Q. WHAT IS YOUR STUDENT SONG'S BACKGROUND, PRIOR TO BEING ACCEPTED INTO THE PROGRAM BY YOU, UNDER YOUR WING. I ASSUME YOU HAVE REASON TO INQUIRE INTO THAT, AND BECOME FAMILIAR WITH HIM. A. SONG -- SONG'S BACKGROUND -- GEE, AND I HAVE TO ADMIT, I, WITH EIGHT Ph.D. STUDENTS, I CAN'T BE PRECISE ON EACH ONE'S BACKGROUND. I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN SONG'S BACKGROUND IS IN ENGINEERING IN THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA. WHAT WAS NOTEWORTHY IN HIS BACKGROUND TO ME IS HE HAD A YEAR AT TUFTS UNIVERSITY, INVOLVED WITH WATER QUALITY MODELING. Q. WHO WAS HE WORKING WITH AT TUFTS? A. HE WAS WORKING WITH DR. LIN BROWN. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT TYPE OF WQ MODELING THEY WERE DOING? A. LIN WAS INVOLVED AT THE TIME WITH THE QUAL2E, A SURFACE WATER QUALITY MODEL FOR STREAMS, AND HE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 269 WAS INVOLVED IN UNCERTAINTY ANALYSIS WITH THAT MODEL. Q. QUAL2E, IS THAT THE EPA PROGRAM? A. YES. YES. Q. WERE THEY MODIFYING IT FOR SOME REASON? A. LIN WAS INVOLVED -- WAS HELPING EPA ADD AN UNCERTAINTY ANALYSIS COMPONENT TO IT. Q. WHAT'S A BAYESIAN ANALYSIS--- A. A BAYESIAN ANALYSIS--- Q. ---OTHER THAN AN ANALYSIS NAMED AFTER DR. BAYES. A. YES, THAT'S RIGHT. IT INVOLVES USE OF BAYES' THEOREM. Q. WHICH, CAN YOU PUT INTO LAYMEN'S TERM FOR US? A. YES. A BAYES' THEOREM IS A WAY OF COMBINING INFORMATION THAT EXPRESS -- IS EXPRESSED PROBABLISTICALLY; INFORMATION THAT MIGHT BE OBTAINED FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES; POOLING INFORMATION, IN EFFECT. Q. OKAY. WOULD THAT BE A MORE APPROPRIATE ANALYSIS METHOD, IF YOUR DATA SET WAS SCATTERED OR INCOMPLETE, THAN SOMETHING LIKE A KENDALL TEST? A. THE TWO ARE NOT COMPARABLE IN THE SENSE -- IN THE SENSES THAT YOUR QUESTION DESCRIBES. IN OTHER WORDS, I WOULDN'T THINK OF -- FOR ANY PARTICULAR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 270 ANALYSIS, CHOOSING A KENDALL TEST OR A BAYESIAN ANALYSIS. Q. OKAY. HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHAT STATISTICAL ANALYSIS METHOD TO USE IN CONDUCTING A REVIEW OR ANALYSIS OF A PARTICULAR DATA SET? WHAT TYPE OF FACTORS DO YOU BRING TO BEAR ON THAT? A. I LOOK AT THE NATURE OF THE QUESTION, WHAT'S BEING ASKED, AND THE NATURE OF THE INFORMATION BASE. Q. A QUESTION I DIDN'T FOLLOW UP BEFORE--- A. YEAH. Q. ---WHILE HE WAS AT TUFTS, WAS SONG GETTING A MASTER'S? A. HE WAS NOT. HE WAS JUST THERE FOR A YEAR, IN AN EXCHANGE SORT OF PROGRAM, AND THEN HE WENT BACK TO WORK WITH AN AGENCY IN THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC. Q. OKAY. YOU MENTIONED SOME WORK YOU DID FOR CH2M-HILL, OR DID SOME WORK WITH THEM ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS. SO, WHAT WAS THE AREA OF INQUIRY IN THAT ONE? A. MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT I WORKED WITH THEM ONLY ONCE, AND THAT WAS TO ASSIST THEM WITH SOME LAKE WATER QUALITY MODELING AND STATISTICAL ANALYSIS ON LAKE McGORY IN ST. PETERSBURG. Q. AND THAT'S A LAKE THAT'S SUBJECTED TO WASTEWATER DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 271 RUNOFF FROM URBAN AREAS? A. STORMWATER RUNOFF, YEAH. Q. STORMWATER? A. YEAH. Q. OKAY. WHAT TYPE OF STATISTICAL ANALYSIS DID YOU SUBJECT THE DATA SETS THERE TO? A. I DON'T REMEMBER, PRECISELY, BUT IT SEEMED TO ME I HELPED THEM IN IDENTIFYING STATISTICS FOR SUMMARIZING DATA SETS AND ASSISTED THEM WITH AN APPLICATION OF MODELS. Q. IN YOUR PRELIMINARY REVIEW WITH SONG OF THE DATA SETS THAT HE WILL BE ANALYZING, HAVE YOU MADE A JUDGMENT AS TO WHAT WOULD BE THE MOST APPROPRIATE STATISTICAL METHOD TO APPLY? A. YEAH. AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, IT'S OUR HOPE TO USE A NON-PARAMETRIC REGRESSION APPROACH; LOOKING AT THE DATA SETS. Q. OKAY. WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY NON-PARAMETRIC? A. IN THAT PARTICULAR USE OF THE WORD, I'M REFERRING TO METHODS THAT DO NOT REQUIRE AN ASSUMPTION OF AN UNDERLYING PROBABILITY MODEL, LIKE A NORMAL DISTRIBUTION. Q. DO YOU HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THERE, IN FACT, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 272 IS NOT A NORMAL DISTRIBUTION OF THE DATA IN WATER DEPTH AND CONCENTRATION DATA SETS SUCH AS WILL BE EMPLOYED BY SONG? A. I HAVE -- I BELIEVE THAT THE FEWER ASSUMPTIONS WE IMPOSE ON THE DATA, THE MORE WE CAN ALLOW THE DATA TO HELP US IDENTIFY RELATIONSHIPS AND PATTERNS. Q. IF YOU WERE ADVISED BY A FIELD EXPERT THAT, IN FACT, THE DATA SETS HAD DEMONSTRATED A NORMAL DISTRIBUTION OR ANY DATA SET REPRESENTED, IN FACT, EMBODIES A NORMAL DISTRIBUTION, WOULD THAT BE A FACTOR THAT WOULD LEAD YOU TO SELECTION OF A DIFFERENT STATISTICAL METHOD? A. IF THE NATURE OF THE ANALYSIS WAS SUCH THAT WE HAD OPTIONS WITH EITHER MAKING AN ASSUMPTION OF NORMALITY OR NOT, AND IF I BELIEVED THE FIELD PERSON, YES. Q. SO, YOU TRY AND FACTOR INTO YOUR SELECTION BOTH REAL WORLD KNOWLEDGE, AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE WEAKNESS OR AREAS OF VARIANCE BETWEEN THE STATISTICAL METHODS AVAILABLE TO YOU TO APPLY? A. YES, YES. Q. EACH OF THE METHODS WE MENTIONED EARLIER, THE BAYESIAN OR THE SEASONAL KENDALL, THE KENDALL TAU DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 273 OR EVEN THE REGRESSION -- NON-PARAMETRIC REGRESSION, YOU WERE MENTIONING MORE RECENTLY, EACH OF THOSE HAS DIFFERENT STRENGTHS; DIFFERENT WEAKNESSES? A. YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. IN A REGRESSION ANALYSIS, WHAT IS THE R SQUARED TERM, OR R-2 TERM GENERALLY MEANT TO CONNOTE? A. IT INDICATES THE PERCENT OF THE VARIANCE IN THE RESPONSE VARIABLE THAT IS EXPLAINED BY THE PREDICTIVE RELATIONSHIP. Q. IS MY NON-TECHNICAL UNDERSTANDING OF THAT, THAT IT, BASICALLY, TELLS YOU--- A. SOME MEASURE OF HOW GOOD THE MODEL IS. Q. OKAY. HOW WELL THE MODEL FITS YOUR DATA FIELD? A. YEAH. Q. OKAY. AND, SO, IT REALLY TELLS YOU HOW CLOSE YOUR MODEL IS TO ACCOUNTING FOR ALL YOUR DATA SET? A. IT'S ONE INDICATOR OF THAT. AS YOU SAID, THERE ARE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF ANY STATISTIC. Q. AND IN A REGRESSION MODEL, THE HIGHEST THAT COULD BE WOULD BE 1.0--- A. THAT'S--- Q. ---WHICH WOULD BE A PERFECT FIT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 274 A. ---CORRECT. Q. IN THE FIELD OF SURFACE WATER QUALITY MODELING, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE OF TWENTY YEARS, THIS IS WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING; YOU'RE DEALING WITH A SCIENCE; IT'S NOT LIKE THE MEDICAL SCIENCE WHERE THEY LOOK FOR AN R-2 IN THE .95 RANGE BEFORE THEY'RE HAPPY. WHAT, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, IS A REASONABLY STRONG FIT FOR THIS KIND OF DATA? A. IT DEPENDS ENORMOUSLY ON THE RELATIONSHIP YOU'RE LOOKING AT. Q. WHAT WOULD SATISFY YOU IF YOU WERE LOOKING AT P CONCENTRATIONS? A. IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE NATURE OF THE DATA. IF I WAS LOOKING AT THE NORTH AMERICAN -- A CROSS-SECTIONAL DATA SET, LIKE THE NORTH AMERICAN DATA SET, TO -- AND THE MODELING WAS DONE CORRECTLY, THE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS WAS DONE CORRECTLY, SO THE R-SQUARED WAS A MEANINGFUL MEASURE, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE R-SQUAREDS IN THE RANGE OF POINT SIX, POINT SEVEN, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q. WOULD PART OF YOUR RATIONALE IN ACCEPTING AN R-SQUARED AT THAT LEVEL AS BEING A GOOD FIT OR A STRONG FIT? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 275 A. WELL, NO, A GOOD -- A PROPER ANALYSIS, BECAUSE IF THE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS IS NOT DONE PROPERLY, AND ASSUMPTIONS AND OTHER CONDITIONS ARE NOT MET, THE R-SQUARE MAY BE A MISLEADING INDICATOR OF THE GOODNESS OF THE MODEL. Q. NOW, IN YOUR DISCUSSIONS AT THE TOC SUBCOMMITTEE, DID THEY EVER DISCUSS THE MONITORING PROGRAM THAT WAS BEING IMPLEMENTED FOR MEASUREMENT OF FARM RUNOFF PHOSPHORUS AS A RESULT OF THE DISTRICT'S BMP RULE, IF THAT TERM MEANS SOMETHING TO YOU -- THE FLORIDA ADMINISTRATIVE CODE, RULE 40E-63? A. THEY MAY HAVE DISCUSSED THAT; I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. YOU DON'T RECALL THAT. REGARDING YOUR DOCUMENT PRODUCTION, YOU USED A PHRASE YESTERDAY THAT I'M SURE WAS JUST ONE OF THOSE CASUAL THINGS THAT PEOPLE TEND TO USE. WHEN MR. REID WAS ASKING YOU IF YOU HAD ANYTHING ELSE IN THE SERIAL PARAGRAPHS IN YOUR NOTICE OF DEPOSITION -- WHICH THE UNITED STATES ALSO, ESSENTIALLY, ADOPTED THE SAME LISTING -- YOU RESPONDED WITH REGARD TO SEVERAL OF THE PARAGRAPHS, "NOT THAT I CAN RECALL," WHEN HE SAID DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING. WHAT DID YOU DO TO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO WHAT WAS AVAILABLE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 276 TO YOU, AND WHAT YOU HAD IN YOUR FILES? A. AT THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT? Q. NO, NOT JUST THEN. WHEN YOU WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS OF COLLECTING THE TWENTY ODD DOCUMENTS THAT WERE PROVIDED; I MEAN, DID YOU HAVE ONE FILE THAT'S ALL YOUR EVERGLADES RELATED MATERIALS, OR DID YOU HAVE TO SEARCH THROUGH -- I DON'T KNOW HOW ORGANIZED YOU ARE, SO I'VE JUST GOT TO KIND TO FEEL OUR WAY ALONG ON THIS ONE. A. YEAH. AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY, I HAD A FILE IN A STACK OF MATERIALS IN THE OFFICE THAT I TRY TO KEEP THINGS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH SONG'S WORK. AND, SO, I IMMEDIATELY WENT TO THAT, AND THEN I SPOKE WITH DONNA ABOUT, IN GENERAL, WHAT ALL OF THAT MEANT, THE REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS. AND THEN I THOUGHT ABOUT IT. AND THE REASON, OF COURSE, I SAID "I DON'T RECALL," IS WE -- EARLIER THIS MORNING, I IDENTIFIED THAT COUPLE OF DAYS STUDY THAT I DID ON THE PHOSPHORUS AND THE DEPTH THAT I JUST DIDN'T REMEMBER YESTERDAY. Q. DO YOU MAINTAIN SEPARATE CORRESPONDENCE FILES? YOU KNOW, NOW, OTHER THAN THE FILES YOU HAVE AT HOME ON YOUR CONSULTING WORK; BUT WITHIN YOUR OFFICE, DO YOU HAVE SEPARATE CORRESPONDENCE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 277 FILES? A. I HAVE A FILE OF CORRESPONDENCE, YES. I TEND TO DEPEND, THOUGH, ON THE CORRESPONDENCE ON THE -- ON FLOPPY DISKS AS MY BEST RECORD OF WHAT I HAVE. Q. DID YOU REVIEW YOUR DISKS TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY CORRESPONDENCE RELATED TO THE MATTERS IN THE PARAGRAPHS CALLING FOR PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS? A. NO, I DIDN'T, NO. Q. DO YOU HAVE A FACULTY SECRETARY? A. WE HAVE--- Q. A SHARED FACULTY SECRETARY? A. ---WELL, ONE SECRETARY FOR FOURTEEN FACULTY, YES. Q. AND DOES SHE EVER DO ROUTINE TYPING FOR YOU, OR DO YOU HAVE TO PRETTY MUCH PRODUCE ALL YOUR OWN? A. I, ESSENTIALLY, PRODUCE ALL MY OWN. Q. DID YOU CHECK TO ENSURE THAT SHE WOULD NOT HAVE -- I MEAN, I ASSUME SHE'S GOT SOME KIND OF FILING SYSTEM FOR EACH OF THE FACULTY? A. I SUSPECT SHE DOES. I CHECKED MY RECOLLECTION ON THAT, AND I FELT PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT I DON'T HAVE CORRESPONDENCE WITH -- THROUGH THE SECRETARY OR THAT WOULD BE ON DISKS, BUT NOT IN ONE OF THESE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 278 FILES. Q. MR. REID WAS ASKING YOU ABOUT SOME LETTERS THAT YOU RECALLED SEEING THAT RELATED TO THE GIFT--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---OR GIFTS, DEPENDING ON HOW IT WAS CHARACTERIZED BY THE CO-OP TO THE WETLAND CENTER. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ASIDE FROM SEEING THOSE, DID YOU RETAIN ANY COPIES OF THOSE? A. I CAN'T REMEMBER WHETHER I HAVE A COPY OF THE LETTER OR NOT -- THE LETTERS OR NOT. Q. IT'S YOUR RECOLLECTION THERE'S MORE THAN ONE? A. MORE THAN ONE COPY? Q. MORE THAN ONE LETTER. A. MORE THAN -- THERE'S MORE THAN ONE LETTER, YEAH. I THINK. I THINK THERE'S MORE THAN ONE LETTER. THERE WERE TWO GIFTS--- Q. AND--- A. ---SO, I ASSUME THERE WAS A LETTER ASSOCIATED WITH EACH GIFT. Q. FOR THE PURPOSE OF OUR QUESTIONS, YOU DON'T -- THANK YOU FOR TELLING US YOU WERE ASSUMING IT. BUT YOU DON'T NEED TO ASSUME AN ANSWER. A. OH. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 279 Q. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU CAN JUST SAY YOU DON'T. A. OKAY. THANKS. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVE, IN FACT, IN ANY OF YOUR FILES COPIES OF THOSE? MIGHT YOU HAVE FILED IT -- I ASSUME YOU HAVE LIKE A GRAD STUDENT FOR EACH -- ON EACH OF YOUR GRAD STUDENTS, AND MAYBE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FILED IN THERE, BECAUSE IT RELATED TO SONG AND THE FUNDING OF HIS WORK AND THAT SORT OF THING? A. I HAVE A FILE THAT IDENTIFIES THE DUKE UNIVERSITY CODES FOR VARIOUS ACCOUNTS THAT WOULD BE FOR -- IN THIS CASE, FOR THE GIFTS. AND IT -- WHAT I DON'T REMEMBER IS WHETHER IN THAT FILE THERE'S A COPY OF THE LETTER. Q. AND THAT'S A FILE, THOUGH, THAT'S IN YOUR OFFICE? A. THAT'S A FILE THAT'S IN MY OFFICE. MR. FITZGERALD: I'LL INCLUDE THAT IN THE LETTER, COUNSEL, BUT I'D ASK THAT DR. RECKHOW WHEN HE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY WOULD LOOK AND SEE IF, IN FACT, THAT IS THERE. Q. (BY MR. FITZGERALD) DR. RICHARDSON TESTIFIED AT HIS DEPOSITION, SPECIFICALLY, THAT YOU ARE WORKING ON A SETTLING RATE CONCEPTUAL MODEL. WOULD HE BE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 280 REFERRING TO THE EMPIRICAL MODEL IDENTIFIED IN EXHIBITS 23 AND 25 WHEN HE SAID THAT? A. I THINK HE PROBABLY IS, YEAH. Q. YOU'RE NOT WORKING ON ANY OTHER MODEL? A. NO. NO. Q. OKAY. BUT AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU'RE NOT WORKING ON IT? A. WE'RE NOT RIGHT NOW. WE'RE -- AS I SAID YESTERDAY, WE'RE DEVELOPING THE PROPOSAL. Q. AND FOR HIM TO SAY YOU'RE WORKING ON IT, BASED ON YOUR TESTIMONY, I SHOULD NOT READ MORE INTO THAT, OTHER THAN YOU'RE DOING THE FACULTY ADVISORY THING--- A. THAT--- Q. ---WITH RESPECT TO THAT MODEL? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. BASED, NOW, SOLELY ON YOUR Ph.D. WORK ON THE NATIONAL EUTROPHICATION STUDY, WHAT WOULD YOU DESCRIBE AS A EUTROPHIED PEAT SOIL WETLAND? A. I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION. Q. YOU SAID EUTROPHICATION, IN YOUR MIND, IS A CONCEPT THAT VARIES FROM ECOSYSTEM TO ECOSYSTEM. A. FROM -- FROM SITE TO SITE, YEAH. Q. SO, EVEN IN SITES OF COMPARABLE ECOSYSTEM, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 281 FRESHWATER LAKES, MOUNTAIN TARN, WHATEVER, FROM SITE TO SITE, YOU SEE NO LEGITIMACY IN APPLYING THE SAME GENERAL EUTROPHICATION NOTIONS OR STANDARDS? A. AND I THINK THAT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED. IF YOU WERE TO GO TO STATES IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU'D FIND THAT THEIR CRITERIA FOR EUTROPHIC VARIES FROM STATE TO STATE. Q. NOW, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TROPHIC CLASSIFICATION SCHEME THAT SOME FELLOWS NAMED HENDERSON-SELLERS -- ANOTHER HYPHENATED -- AND MARKLAND -- PUT OUT IN 1987 OECD? ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT? A. NOT -- NOT EXACTLY FAMILIAR WITH IT, NO. NO. I MAY HAVE SEEN IT. I DON'T--- Q. ARE THERE CLASSIFICATION SCHEMES, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, THAT RATE THE EUTROPHICATION LEVELS, OR ATTEMPT TO ASSIGN A TROPHIC LEVEL TO TROPHIC CLASSIFICATION SCHEMES? A. YES. Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER WORKED WITH THOSE? A. YES. Q. WHAT PARTICULAR SCHEMES, IF ANY, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH OF THOSE RATING SCHEMES? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 282 A. EPA PROPOSED A TROPHIC STATE SCHEME ASSOCIATED WITH THE NATIONAL EUTROPHICATION SURVEY ABOUT TWENTY YEARS AGO. BOB CARLSON PROPOSED A TROPHIC STATE INDEX. THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST COMMONLY CITED ONE IN THE UNITED STATES ABOUT -- I THINK IT WAS ABOUT FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. Q. NOW, THE CARLSON INDEX IS USED -- IS APPLIED QUITE A BIT TO MANMADE LAKES IN URBAN AREAS AND SETTLING PONDS, IS IT NOT, TO DETERMINE--- A. THAT I'M NOT FAMILIAR -- WELL, WHO APPLIES IT, I CAN'T -- I CAN'T--- Q. IT'S GENERALLY AVAILABLE, THOUGH? A. IT'S A -- IT'S A REFEREED PUBLICATION THAT PRESENTED ITSELF, YEAH. IT'S--- Q. IF YOU APPLIED EITHER OF THE SYSTEMS YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH, WOULD THE EVERGLADES CLASSIFY AS A EUTROPHIED SYSTEM? A. I DON'T KNOW WITHOUT ACTUALLY APPLYING IT, BUT I WOULD -- I'D ALSO SAY THAT THE CARLSON INDEX -- AND I'VE SAID THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES IN WRITING -- THAT THE CARLSON INDEX AND EPA SCHEMES AND OTHER SCHEMES THAT ARE APPROPRIATE IN ONE REGION MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE IN ANOTHER. Q. WHAT WOULD YOU DEFINE AS AN OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEM? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 283 A. AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WHEN ASKED THAT, IT'S NUTRIENT POOR. Q. OKAY. IS THERE A GENERALLY ACCEPTED SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY VALUE FOR WHEN ONE GOES FROM NUTRIENT POOR TO NUTRIENT RICH? A. NO. AS I MENTIONED, EACH OF THE SCHEMES -- THERE ARE SEVERAL SCHEMES THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED, AND WITH REGARDS TO LAKES, AT LEAST, AND WITH REGARDS TO THE UNITED STATES, YOU'LL FIND QUITE A VARIATION IN TROPHIC STATE SCHEMES FROM STATE TO STATE. Q. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THE NOTION, BASED ON YOUR TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE, THAT THE NATURALLY OCCURRING BACKGROUND NUTRIENT LEVEL TEN PARTS PER BILLION OF PHOSPHORUS WOULD BE AN OLIGOTROPHIC STATE? A. PROBABLY, IN ALMOST ANY SCHEME, THAT WOULD BE; YEAH. Q. SO, IF YOU'RE SUFFICIENTLY LOW THEN, I TAKE IT FROM YOUR ANSWER, YOU'RE GOING TO BE OLIGOTROPHIC NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE? A. WELL, REGARDLESS OF WHAT SCHEME, THAT'S CORRECT. Q. AND BASED ON YOUR EARLIER TESTIMONY, I ASSUME YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO GO UP FROM THAT TEN PARTS TO TRY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 284 AND GIVE ME A BALLPARK NUMBER FOR A PEAT SOIL WETLAND SYSTEM? A. I JUST DON'T KNOW PEAT SOIL WETLAND SYSTEMS. MS. STINSON: TOM, COULD WE TAKE JUST A TWO-MINUTE BREAK? MR. FITZGERALD: SURE. SURE. (THEREUPON, A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) EXAMINATION BY MR. FITZGERALD CONTINUES: Q. I MAY NOT HAVE HEARD CORRECTLY, BUT DR. RICHARDSON SAID VERY CLEARLY ON HIS TESTIMONY THAT YOU WOULD KNOW HOW LONG THIS EMPIRICAL MODELING EFFORT IS GOING TO TAKE TO REACH MODEL RESULTS. AND I HAD A DISPUTE LAST NIGHT WITH MR. REID OVER WHAT YOU ACTUALLY SAID YESTERDAY. I KNOW YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT 1984. A. '94. Q. I'M SORRY, '94. DID YOU SAY THE BEGINNING OF CALENDAR '94 OR THE END OF '94? A. THE END. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU'RE NOW, I ASSUME -- UNDERSTAND, BASED ON MR. REID'S QUESTIONING, THAT IS FAR DOWN FIELD FROM WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE GOING TO HEARING ON THIS? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 285 A. YES. Q. OKAY. DR. RICHARDSON TALKED ABOUT A FIVE TO SIX YEAR PROGRAM TO YIELD DATA FOR DECISION MAKING AND PREDICTION OF -- FOR PURPOSES OF STA DESIGN OR WETLAND TREATMENT DESIGN, AND ADJUSTMENT TO THE EVERGLADES SYSTEM. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU, AT LEAST, HAVE, PRELIMINARILY, ALONG WITH MR. SONG, REVIEWED DATA SETS FROM THE SAME AREAS THAT DR. RICHARDSON IS, IN FACT, CONDUCTING HIS FIELDWORK. DO YOU AGREE THAT A FIVE TO SIX YEAR PROGRAM IS NEEDED IN ORDER TO HAVE ADEQUATE DATA TO CONDUCT THE TYPE OF AGGRESSION ANALYSIS YOU ANTICIPATE WILL BE COMPLETED FOR THIS EMPIRICAL MODEL? A. NO. I -- FIRST OF ALL, I -- I -- I'M NOT IN A POSITION TO ANSWER THAT. AND, I MEAN, THAT'S ONE REASON WHY I SAY I DON'T -- I DON'T AGREE. THE OTHER IS THAT THE -- THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION DEPENDS ON WHAT -- WHAT PEOPLE THINK IS SUFFICIENT INFORMATION TO SUPPORT A DECISION, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS EITHER. I DON'T FEEL THAT THAT'S MY ROLE. MY ROLE IS, AS A SCIENTIST, JUST TO DO ANALYSIS. Q. AS A STATISTICIAN CONDUCTING WATER QUALITY DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 286 ANALYSIS OVER THE LAST TWENTY YEARS, HAVE YOU EVER HAD A DATA SET THAT YOU SAID, THAT'S GREAT; THAT'S ENOUGH; I DON'T WANT OR NEED ANY MORE? A. RESEARCHERS RARELY SAY THAT. Q. RIGHT. I SORT OF THOUGHT THAT MIGHT BE YOUR ANSWER. BUT, GENERALLY, YOU ALWAYS WANT MORE DATA EITHER TO CONSTRUCT YOUR MODEL, OR CALIBRATE YOUR MODEL, OR TEST YOUR MODEL'S LONG-TERM--- A. THAT'S CORRECT. BUT MY OBJECTIVE AS A RESEARCHER IS COMING UP WITH GOOD SCIENCE AND GOOD MODELS, WHICH IS NOT THE OBJECTIVE OF SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS. Q. SO, YOU DRAW A DISTINCTION IN YOUR MIND IN THE ADEQUACY OF DATA EVALUATION AT A CERTAIN POINT BECOMING A POLICY ISSUE--- A. YES. Q. ---AS OPPOSED TO A TECHNICAL SCIENCE ISSUE? A. YES. Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU IN THE PAST, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HAD TO RELY ON LESS THAN DESIRABLE DATA SETS THAT WERE SIMPLY THE BEST AVAILABLE? A. I HAVEN'T BEEN IN A POSITION TO MAKE THE JUDGMENT AS TO WHETHER OR NOT DATA ARE SUPPORTIVE OF DECISION MAKING. I HAVE FELT, AS A SCIENTIST, DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 287 THAT THE DATA I'VE BASED SCIENTIFIC CONCLUSIONS ON ARE -- ARE NOT VERY STRONG IN INDICATING THINGS. Q. ASSUMING THIS DISSERTATION AS PROPOSED IN TWENTY-THREE AND TWENTY-FIVE GOES FORWARD MORE OR LESS IN THAT FORM, WILL YOU BE OR ARE YOU COMFORTABLE IN HAVING SONG CONDUCT HIS ANALYSIS BASED ON THE BEST AVAILABLE SCIENTIFIC DATA HE CAN ACQUIRE, EVEN IF IT IS NOT THE THEORETICAL IDEAL DATA SET? A. AS HIS ADVISOR CONCERNED PRIMARILY WITH A DISSERTATION, AND A RESEARCH AND LEARNING EXPERIENCE, THE ANSWER IS YES. Q. YOU WERE TALKING WITH MR. REID ABOUT THE VALUE JUDGMENT IN, YOU KNOW, A EUTROPHIED SYSTEM; WHETHER THAT'S GOOD OR BAD. YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT YOU WORKED ON -- WITH C2HM-HILL OR CM2H -- I CAN NEVER GET THAT RIGHT -- WITH THE CHEMICAL-HILL COMPANY THAT YOU WORKED ON SOME ADIRONDACK LAKES THAT WERE IMPACTED BY ACID RAIN, I ASSUME? A. THAT WAS WITH TETRA TECH. Q. I'M SORRY, TETRA TECH. THAT WAS AN ACID RAIN IMPACT SITUATION? A. YES. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 288 Q. DID YOU WORK AT THAT TIME WITH THE NATIONAL ACID RAIN PROJECT DATA SET? A. I HAD RESEARCH PROJECTS FUNDED BY THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY. Q. CONTRIBUTING TO THAT? A. ON ACID RAIN AND FISH RESPONSE. Q. DO YOU REVIEW THE ACIDIFICATION OR THE ELEVATION IN pH LEVELS IN FRESHWATER LAKES AS ALSO A VALUE JUDGMENT AND WHETHER THAT'S GOOD OR BAD? A. I THINK THAT ALL ENVIRONMENTAL DECISION MAKING INVOLVES VALUE JUDGMENTS. SO, THE ANSWER IS, YES. Q. AND IN YOUR RESEARCH, WHAT DID YOU FIND WAS THE IMPACT ON A FRESHWATER ECOSYSTEM OF ELEVATED pH LEVELS? A. IN MY RESEARCH FUNDED BY THE U.S. EPA, WE FOUND THAT OBSERVATIONAL DATA DEMONSTRATED THAT BROOK TROUT AND LAKE TROUT POPULATIONS DECLINED AS pH DECREASES AND AS ALUMINUM CONCENTRATION INCREASES, AND AS CALCIUM CONCENTRATION DECREASES. Q. ARE THOSE THREE CHEMICAL EFFECTS ATTRIBUTABLE TO THE DEPOSITION OF ACIDIC FALLOUT IN RAIN? A. VERY LIKELY. Q. OKAY. SO, IF ONE WERE TO MEASURE -- WITHOUT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 289 PLACING A VALUE JUDGMENT ON IT, THEN, ONE COULD CLEARLY IDENTIFY IMPACTS IN THE NATURE SYSTEM AS A RESULT OF THAT? A. AS ASSOCIATED WITH pH CHANGES, YES. Q. DR. RICHARDSON TESTIFIED IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION: DO YOU BELIEVE THESE SYSTEMS -- REFERRING TO THE EVERGLADES -- ARE DISTURBED BY THE NUTRIENT INPUT FROM THE FARMLANDS. HE SAID -- QUOTE -- I BELIEVE THERE IS SOME ALTERATION THAT TAKES PLACE, YES. AND HE FURTHER SAID, IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED DISTURBANCE IN SOME CASES. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE EFFECT OF CALADIUM AND OTHER THINGS. ARE--- MS. STINSON: FOR THE RECORD--- MR. FITZGERALD: YES. MS. STINSON: ---OBJECT TO FORM. I DON'T HAVE THE QUESTIONS IN FRONT OF ME, AND I--- MR. FITZGERALD: WELL, THE TRANSCRIPT'S AVAILABLE, AND I--- MS. STINSON: ---ASSUMING THAT HE SAID THAT, I HAVE NO OBJECTION. MR. FITZGERALD: AND -- OKAY. Q. (BY MR. FITZGERALD) ASSUME, FOR THE SAKE OF DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 290 ARGUMENT, I WOULD NOT HAVE THE GALL TO LIE ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON THE RECORD IN THIS CASE; YOU KNOW, I CAN GIVE YOU THE CITE TO THE RECORD; BUT ASSUME THAT THAT'S A FAIRLY ACCURATE REP -- WOULD YOU ACCEPT DR. RICHARDSON'S REPRESENTATION ON THAT AS, YOU KNOW, THE FIELD ECOLOGIST WHO'S TEACHING SONG HOW THE SYSTEM FUNCTIONS, THAT, IN FACT, THERE ARE DISTURBANCES IN THE SYSTEM FROM THE NUTRIENT LOADING? A. BASED ON MY COLLECTIVE UNDERSTANDING, YES. Q. OKAY. SO, ACCEPTING THAT THE SYSTEM -- THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM IS DISTURBED BY EXCESS NUTRIENT INFLOWS -- OR NUTRIENT INFLOWS -- I WILL TAKE THE ADJECTIVE AWAY, BECAUSE IT MAY MAKE SOME PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE -- YOU STILL WILL NOT ASSIGN, IN YOUR MIND AS A RESEARCH SCIENTIST, A PRO OR CON TO THAT IMPACT? A. NO. I LOOK AT DISTURBANCE AS HAVING A REASONABLE SCIENTIFIC MEANING. I FEEL MY ROLE IS, AS A SCIENTIST, TO INTERPRET THE SCIENCE AND NOT ASSIGN VALUE JUDGMENTS TO THAT. Q. OKAY. SO, YOU RESERVE THE VALUE JUDGMENT TO THE POLICYMAKER WHO WILL EMPLOY WHATEVER TOOLS YOU'RE ABLE TO PROVIDE? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 291 A. TO THOSE WHO ARE ELECTED OR APPOINTED TO DO THAT. Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY FEEL, AS A RESEARCH SCIENTIST IN THE WATER QUALITY AREA, THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO LOWER PHOSPHORUS LOADS TO THE EVERGLADES TO AS LOW AS POSSIBLE? A. CAN YOU--- MS. STINSON: OBJECT TO FORM. MR. FITZGERALD: OKAY. WELL, I'LL REPHRASE THE QUESTION. WITNESS: YEAH. Q. (BY MR. FITZGERALD) DR. RICHARDSON ALSO TESTIFIED THAT, IN HIS VIEW, IT WAS DESIRABLE TO LOWER PHOSPHORUS LOADS TO AS LOW AS POSSIBLE IN THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM. IS THAT AN AREA WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE A VIEW OR AN OPINION, OR DOES THAT FALL WITHIN THE POLICY RANGE AGAIN? A. THAT FALLS IN THE POLICY ARENA. Q. SO, IN YOUR VIEW, THEN, IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, THAT'S NOT AN AREA THAT YOU WOULD BELIEVE APPROPRIATE FOR A SCIENTIFIC RESEARCHER TO EXPRESS A VIEW ON? A. THAT'S CORRECT. Q. OKAY. HOW DID DR. RICHARDSON TAKE ON OR HAVE DEVOLVE UPON HIM THE ROLE OF MR. SONG'S MENTOR FOR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 292 PURPOSES OF UNDERSTANDING THE OPERATION OF THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM? A. HOW DID HE TAKE ON THAT ROLE? Q. HOW DID HE END UP IN THAT? A. BECAUSE SONG'S SUPPORT IS THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER; AND BECAUSE SONG'S WORK WILL INVOLVE WETLANDS TRAPPING; AND BECAUSE, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, CURT RICHARDSON WILL BE A COMMITTEE MEMBER. IT -- I MEAN, AND BECAUSE HE WAS WILLING TO DO THAT. ONE THING -- AND LET ME ADD, JUST BRIEFLY, IS THAT IT IS VERY COMMONLY THE CASE THAT WE AS FACULTY ARE AVAILABLE FOR CONSULTATION WITH ALL STUDENTS AT DUKE, AND FOR THAT MATTER, EVEN OVER AT UNC. STUDENTS CAN COME OVER AND TALK TO US, AND--- Q. AND YOU CERTAINLY APPLY THE OPEN-MINDEDNESS WITH REGARD TO UNC. A. YES--- Q. I MEAN--- A. ---DESPITE WHAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK. Q. YES. MR. REID: AND YESTERDAY. WITNESS: AND YESTERDAY, TOO, THAT'S RIGHT. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 293 MS. STINSON: WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY? MR. REID: THIS IS OFF THE RECORD. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) Q. (BY MR. FITZGERALD) NOW, DO YOU PLAN TO -- NOW, YOU SAID NONPARAMETRIC REGRESSION; DO YOU ALSO PLAN, AS PART OF THE EFFORT THAT YOU'RE DIRECTING OR REVIEWING BY MR. SONG, THAT A BAYESIAN ANALYSIS, AS IT RELATES TO ACTUAL WATER QUALITY DATA AND THE HYDROLOGY AND INPUTS AND OUTPUTS, AND FOR THE SPECIFICS OF THAT, WILL BE APPLIED BY MR. SONG? A. A BAYESIAN ANALYSIS WE HOPE WILL BE APPLIED. Q. DR. RICHARDSON SAID -- AFTER TALKING ABOUT -- MAKING THE STATEMENT THAT WAS THE BASIS OF MY LAST QUESTION ABOUT THE BAYESIAN ANALYSIS -- SAID THAT THIS IS BEING DONE IN TWO PHASES THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER. PHASE ONE BEING TO UNDERSTAND THAT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HYDROLOGY AND WATER QUALITY. IS THAT THE EMPIRICAL MODEL EFFORT, OR IS THAT PHASE TWO, WHICH HE DESCRIBED AS, DETERMINING FOR THE MODEL THE APPROPRIATE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 294 PARAMETERS, AND THEN RUNNING YOUR MODEL AND DEVELOPING YOUR ANALYSIS? WHICH OF THOSE PHASES DOES YOUR MODEL ADDRESS AS IT'S CURRENTLY CONCEIVED, OR DOES IT ADDRESS BOTH? A. I WOULD CHARACTERIZE THE PHASES AS DIFFERENT THAN THAT. I WOULD SAY PHASE ONE -- AND THE PHASES COULD BE DONE CONCURRENTLY -- INVOLVES A STATISTICAL MODELING OF THE WCA-2A DATA. AND PHASE TWO INVOLVES STATISTICAL MODELING OF THE NORTH AMERICAN DATA OR OTHER DATA FROM OTHER WETLANDS. Q. HAVE YOU REVIEWED THE KADLEC AND NEWMAN SURVEY, THE SUBSET OF THE NORTH AMERICAN DATABASE, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY THE SELECTED SOUTHEAST AREAS THAT -- I THINK IT'S EXHIBIT SEVENTEEN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. A. YEAH, I'VE LOOKED AT IT. Q. OKAY. DO YOU ACCEPT -- I MEAN, HAVE YOU READ IT TO THE POINT WHERE YOU COULD ADDRESS SOME QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO IT? A. PERHAPS. Q. OKAY. THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION IN THERE OVER WHETHER MANY OF THE SYSTEMS DESCRIBED, IN FACT, ARE SUFFICIENTLY RELATED TO THE UNIQUE DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 295 CHARACTERISTICS OF THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM TO HAVE ANY EXTRAPOLATIVE VALUE. A. YEAH. Q. AND THAT SEEMS TO SQUARE WITH WHAT YOU WERE SAYING EARLIER ABOUT GOING SYSTEM BY SYSTEM. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MODEL THE ENTIRE NORTH AMERICAN DATA SET, WHICH INCLUDES -- AS I'M SURE YOU UNDERSTAND -- SOME SURFACE WATER ECOSYSTEMS IN CANADA THAT ARE FROZEN OVER FOR HALF THE YEAR, AND RANGE TO LAKE SYSTEMS IN FLORIDA, WHICH, AS ARE DESCRIBED IN EXHIBIT FOURTEEN, ARE SHALLOW SUBTROPICAL LAKES WHICH -- WITH HIGH PRODUCTIVITY YEAR-ROUND. AND SO, I MEAN, YOU HAVE WHAT I WOULD CALL A HELLACIOUS GAMUT OF ECOSYSTEMS THERE. HOW DO YOU MODEL THAT? A. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WILL LOOK AT IS THE APPLICABILITY OF DATA FROM OTHER SYSTEMS TO -- TO BE COMBINED WITH -- IN THE BAYESIAN ANALYSIS WITH THE WCA-2A ANALYSIS. Q. YOU SAID YESTERDAY THAT ONE OF THE WAYS TO PREDICT FUTURE EVENTS AND RESULTS IN A SYSTEM LIKE THIS IS JUST BASED ON LONG-TERM EXPERIENCE. IS THAT WHY SOMETIMES YOUR MODEL ISN'T GOING TO DO TOO MUCH DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 296 FOR YOU, BECAUSE YOU, IN FACT, HAVE SUCH WIDELY DIVERSION ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS THAT EMPIRICAL UNDERSTANDING MAY BE OF MORE VALUE THAN A STATISTICAL MODEL? A. AS I RECALL, WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO IS THAT THERE ARE APT TO BE SITUATIONS WHERE WHAT IS DESIRED AS A PREDICTION TO GUIDE POLICY CANNOT BE ADEQUATELY PREDICTED WITH A SIMULATION MODEL, AN EXPERT JUDGMENT MAY BE APPROPRIATE. Q. THE EMPIRICAL MODEL, AS IT'S CONCEIVED, WHAT PARAMETERS WILL THE CURRENT VERSION ATTEMPT TO PREDICT? A. WHAT WE'D LIKE TO HAVE AS THE RESPONSE VARIABLE IS OUTLET PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION -- OUTLET FROM A WETLAND. Q. HOW, IF AT ALL, WILL YOUR MODEL DETERMINE IF THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WATER DEPTH AND WATER QUALITY AND FLOW AND WATER QUANTITY OR OTHER CONTRIBUTORS TO THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM? AND THE REASON I ASK THAT IS THAT'S WHAT DR. RICHARDSON SAYS IT'S GOING TO DO. A. IT -- WE EXPECT OR WE HOPE THAT IT WILL DO THAT THROUGH THE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS OF FITTING THE RESPONSE VARIABLE OUTLET PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 297 AS A FUNCTION OF THE PREDICTOR VARIABLES; THE PHOSPHORUS INPUT; THE MEAN DEPTH AND THE WATER RESIDENCE TIME. Q. IN MID-MARCH OF THIS YEAR, THE FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE WITHDREW YOU AS A DESIGNATED EXPERT WITNESS. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD YESTERDAY, YOU ONLY LEARNED THAT WITHIN THE LAST TWO DAYS; IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES. Q. SO, YOU HAD NO DISCUSSION WITH COUNSEL OR ANYONE ELSE ON BEHALF OF THE SUGAR LEAGUE UNTIL YOU WERE BROUGHT INTO THE LIGHT? A. YES. Q. IT SEEMS FROM YOUR FILES AND FROM DOCUMENTS OBTAINED FROM THE SUGAR CANE LEAGUE AND RELATED PEOPLE, THAT, AT ONE TIME, YOU WERE GOING TO CRITIQUE DR. WALKER'S TREND ANALYSIS FOR ENP INFLOWS; IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES. Q. DID YOU DO ANY WORK ALONG THOSE LINES? A. THAT'S THE -- THE WORK THAT I DID INVOLVES THAT REPORT THAT WE DISCUSSED AT LENGTH YESTERDAY ON THE TREND ANALYSIS. Q. WAS THAT YOUR ASSIGNED TASK? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 298 A. AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY, THAT WAS ONE OF THE TASKS. THE OTHER TASK INVOLVED LOOKING AT THE CODE FOR THE PROGRAMS THAT HE HAD WRITTEN. Q. OKAY. AND DID YOU UNDERSTAND YOU MIGHT BE CALLED TO TESTIFY ON THAT, UP UNTIL AT LEAST TWO DAYS AGO, OR MID-MARCH WHEN YOU WERE WITHDRAWN AS A WITNESS? A. I SEEM TO REMEMBER WHEN I DID THAT WORK THAT THAT WAS A POSSIBILITY. Q. OKAY. DO YOU RECALL WHAT TESTS -- STATISTICAL TEST METHOD DR. WALKER USED FOR THE ENP INFLOW DATA? A. NOW, IF THAT'S REFERRING TO THAT DOCUMENT--- Q. YES. A. ---THAT WAS THE SEASONAL KENDALL TEST. Q. OKAY. IS A SEASONAL KENDALL TEST APPROPRIATE FOR ANALYZING SUCH A DATA SET? MR. RUSSELL: I'M GOING TO INSTRUCT HIM NOT ANSWER. THAT INVOLVES THE WORK ON YOUR ANALYSIS, DOES IT NOT--- WITNESS: THAT--- MR. FITZGERALD: I'M ASKING HIM AS AN EXPERT STATISTICIAN GENERICALLY. I'M NOT REFERRING HIM TO THAT DOCUMENT, OR ANY--- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 299 MR. RUSSELL: YEAH, YOU JUST--- MR. FITZGERALD: ---OF HIS COMMENTS. MR. RUSSELL: ---DID REFER HIM TO THE DOCUMENT, COUNSEL. YOU'RE JUST -- YOU'RE -- THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. MR. FITZGERALD: NO, THE WITNESS MENTIONED THE DOCUMENT IN RESPONSE. I'M ASKING IN THE OBJECTIVE. I'M NOT ASKING HIM WHAT HE PUT DOWN THERE, OR WHY HE PUT IT DOWN THERE. I'M SAYING, HE HAS ALREADY DEMONSTRATED THAT HE IS FULLY COMPETENT TO ADDRESS THAT PARTICULAR TEST. HE'S DISTINGUISHED IT FROM OTHER STATISTICAL TESTS. I'M ASKING FOR ENP INFLOW WATER QUALITY DATA -- IS THAT AN APPROPRIATE TEST TO USE? I'M NOT ASKING HIM TO ANALYZE THE PAPER; OR HOW IT WAS DONE THERE; OR WHAT THE RESULTS CAME OUT THERE. I'M ASKING HIM A GENERIC QUESTION. I WOULD ALSO NOTE FOR THE RECORD THAT HIS CURRENT DESIGNATION IS MATHEMATICAL ANALYSIS OF PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE IN THE EPA, WHICH INCLUDES EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK, AS YOU'RE WELL AWARE; AND FURTHER, WETLAND DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 300 TREATMENT AREAS. FROM ALL THE TESTIMONY OVER THE LAST DAY, IT'S CLEAR THAT THAT IS HIGHLY RELEVANT TO HIS CURRENT DESIGNATED AREA OF TESTIMONY. SO, WHETHER YOU NOW SAY HE'S NOT A WITNESS OR NOT, THAT STILL FALLS WITHIN THE DESIGNATED AREA OF ANOTHER PARTY; AND I CAN PUT A CLEAN COPY OF THAT REPORT UNDER HIS NOSE, AS YOU WELL KNOW, AND ASK HIM TO ANALYZE IT RIGHT NOW AS AN EXPERT, BECAUSE IT FALLS WITHIN THE AREA OF DESIGNATED TESTIMONY. MR. RUSSELL: AND IF YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE A CLEAN COPY AND ANALYZE IT NOW, YOU MAY, BUT YOU MAY NOT -- AND I'M INSTRUCTING YOU NOT TO ANSWER ANYTHING BASED ON THE -- THE WORK DONE FOR OUR CLIENT. MR. FITZGERALD: ARE--- WITNESS: THE QUESTION? Q. (BY MR. FITZGERALD) DO YOU RECALL THE QUESTION, OR DO YOU NEED IT AGAIN? A. PLEASE STATE IT AGAIN. Q. IS THE SEASONAL KENDALL TEST AN APPROPRIATE TEST TO USE TO ANALYZE TRENDS IN PHOSPHORUS INFLOW THROUGH STRUCTURES OR TO AN AREA SUCH AS DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 301 EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK? A. THE SEASONAL KENDALL TEST IS A GOOD OPTION TO CHOOSE TO LOOK AT TRENDS IN WATER QUALITY OVER TIME WHERE SEASONALITY IS THOUGHT TO BE PRESENT. Q. OKAY. WHAT'S CORRELATION IN THAT CONTEXT? A. CORRELATION REFERS TO ASSOCIATION. Q. OKAY. CAN YOU EXPLAIN IN LAYMAN'S TERMS WHY A CORRELATION OR AN ASSOCIATION IN THE DATA MIGHT CAUSE YOU TO STEER AWAY FROM THE SEASONAL KENDALL TEST? A. YOU'RE REFERRING, I BELIEVE, TO AUTOCORRELATION. Q. YES. A. YEAH. AND TWO YEARS AFTER HIRSCH PUBLISHED THE PAPER ON THE SEASONAL KENDALL, HE PUBLISHED AN ADDITIONAL PAPER THAT WAS AN AUTOCORRELATION CORRECTION, AND HE -- AND SUBSEQUENTLY THERE IS AVAILABLE A TEST STATISTIC FOR ADJUSTING FOR AUTOCORRELATION. Q. WHAT DOES -- WHAT ERROR OR SKEWNESS OR DEFICIENCY IN THE ORIGINAL TEST DOES THAT CURE? A. IF YOU IGNORE AUTOCORRELATION, YOU THINK THAT YOUR CONFIDENCE INTERVAL IS TIGHTER; AND IN THE WAY THOSE TESTS ARE TYPICALLY APPLIED, YOU'RE MORE APT TO MAKE THE ERROR OF SAYING THAT THERE'S A TREND DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 302 WHEN, IN FACT, THERE'S NOT. Q. OKAY. DOES THAT RELATE TO THE TYPE ONE AND TYPE TWO ERRORS THAT ARE BANDIED ABOUT? A. YES. Q. WHICH TYPE ERROR IS THAT? A. THAT'S A -- HOW WOULD YOU CALL -- I WANT TO GET -- I GET A -- I BELIEVE THAT'S A TYPE ONE ERROR. I GET THE DESIGNATIONS CONFUSED. MS. STINSON: TOM--- MR. FITZGERALD: YES. MS. STINSON: ---TWO MINUTE WARNING. MR. FITZGERALD: TWO MINUTE WARNING. OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO -- I DIDN'T EVEN GET AT THE DOCUMENTS TO SPEAK OF. OKAY. WELL, WE'LL JUST FINISH OUT ON THIS. Q. (BY MR. FITZGERALD) DID YOU EVER READ APPENDIX "E" TO THE SWIM PLAN, WHICH DISCUSSES THE ACTUAL REGRESSION ANALYSIS FORMULA EMPLOYED BY DR. ROBSON ON BEHALF OF THE DISTRICT IN DEVELOPING A STATISTICAL METHOD FOR ANALYZING LIMITS -- CONCENTRATION LIMITS FOR LOXAHATCHEE NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE AND EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK? A. I DON'T REMEMBER, SPECIFICALLY, READING THAT, NO. Q. HAVE YOU HEARD DISCUSSION OF IT AT THE TOC, OR DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 303 AROUND THE HALLS OF THE DISTRICT? A. I MAY HAVE, BUT IT JUST HASN'T -- AND IT MAY HAVE COME UP IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS STUCK IN MY MIND THAT'S IMPORTANT. Q. OKAY. LET ME HYPOTHESIZE TO YOU THAT IT USES A REGRESSION -- NONPARAMETRIC REGRESSION TEST, ANALYZING SOME OF THE SIMILAR THINGS THAT DR. WALKER DID. WOULD A NONPARAMETRIC REGRESSION TEST BE OF MORE VALUE OR MORE VALID IN YOUR MIND IN ANALYZING ENP, EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK, PHOSPHORUS INFLOW TRENDS? A. I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE DATA, AND--- Q. YOU DON'T RECALL THE DATA WELL ENOUGH? A. NO. NO. Q. IN ONE OF YOUR REPORTS TO DUKE UNIVERSITY, EXHIBIT TWENTY-FOUR, YOU SAID THAT THE THIRD THING YOU WERE GOING TO DO WAS WALKER DATA AND MODEL. WE INTEND TO USE THE BASIC MODELING SCHEME PROPOSED BY BILL WALKER. WHAT MODELING SCHEME ARE YOU REFERRING TO THERE--- A. I HAVE--- Q. ---AS BEING USED BY BILL WALKER? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 304 A. I HAVE TO FIND THE EXHIBIT. Q. OKAY. EXHIBIT TWENTY-FOUR. A. OH, HERE IT IS. Q. IT'S THE TOP PAGE OF THAT EXHIBIT. YOUR BIWEEKLY, DATED NOVEMBER 18, 1992. A. OH, THAT REFERS TO EXHIBIT -- THAT REFERS TO EXHIBIT FOUR. Q. OKAY. AND HE USES A REGRESSIONAL ANALYSIS THERE? A. YEAH, IN PART OF THE ANALYSIS, YEAH. Q. OKAY. BUT YOU GO ON TO SAY, BUT WE -- YOU--- A. YEAH. Q. ---DO THE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS AND ERROR ANALYSIS DIFFERENTLY. HOW ARE YOU DOING THE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS DIFFERENTLY, AS YOU'VE GOT YOUR PROPOSAL DRAFT? A. I HAVE SOME COMMENTS IN HERE THAT ARE HANDWRITTEN, AND THOSE DISCUSS SPECIFICS WITH THE WALKER ANALYSIS; BUT AS I MENTIONED TO YOU IN THE PAST HOUR, WHAT WE PROPOSE TO DO IS THE -- AS DISCUSSED IN THAT -- DISCUSSED IN THAT WETLAND CENTER AUGUST '92 PRELIMINARY DRAFT PROPOSAL, WE INTEND TO LOOK AT NONPARAMETRIC REGRESSION TECHNIQUES. Q. THE OUTLINE MENTIONED UP ON THE FIRST LINE OF THE TEXT, SONG IS PREPARING AN OUTLINE. IS THAT DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 305 TWENTY-FOUR AND -- OR TWENTY-THREE AND TWENTY-FIVE? A. THOSE--- Q. THOSE TWO. A. WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK ABOUT THE ONE THAT I DIDN'T -- THAT CAME FROM STEVE GHERINI, BUT--- Q. TWENTY-THREE. A. ---YEAH, THAT'S -- THAT'S A -- CERTAINLY A PROPOSAL IN THE LINE OF INCREASINGLY REFINED PROPOSALS. Q. HOW WERE YOU GOING TO DO YOUR ERROR ANALYSIS DIFFERENTLY FROM DR. WALKER? A. MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT, AT ONE POINT IN HIS STATISTICAL ANALYSIS, HE FIT A REGRESSION MODEL AND USED THAT TO GENERATE CONCENTRATION, AND DIDN'T CONSIDER THE VARIABILITY AROUND THE REGRESSION MODEL AND HIS ERROR PROPAGATION. AND IF WE CONTINUE TO PROCEED ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT HE DID, WE WOULD TAKE THAT ERROR INTO ACCOUNT. Q. HAVE YOU DONE THAT PRELIMINARILY? A. NO. Q. WHAT WILL THAT GIVE YOU THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE? A. A LARGER ERROR. Q. IT MAGNIFIES THE ERROR? DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 306 A. YEAH. IF I UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY WHAT HE DID WHEN HE -- WHEN HE SUBSTITUTED THE MODEL PREDICTION IN FOR CONCENTRATION DATA, HE LEFT OUT THE VARIABILITY IN THE MODEL FIT IN DOING ERROR ANALYSES, SO IT WOULD EXPAND THE ERRORS. Q. YOU MENTIONED EXHIBIT FOUR -- AND THIS WILL BE VERY QUICK -- IF YOU CAN JUST DECIPHER YOUR MARGINAL NOTES, AND THEN WE'LL BE ABLE TO WORK ON THAT UNTIL NEXT TIME. IF YOU CAN JUST READ THEM FOR ME, SO I CAN TELL WHAT THEY SAY. AT PAGE 11, ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, I CAN READ ESTIMATE, AND INTERPOLATION. CAN YOU READ THE REST OF IT? A. I -- IT -- IT SAYS HOW CAN WE ESTIMATE THE ERROR OF THIS INTERPOLATION. AND I -- I CAN'T READ WHAT'S SLIGHTLY ABOVE THAT. Q. OKAY. AT PAGE 14, THE SAME THING. ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE? A. WELL, I CAN'T -- I CAN'T. I CAN'T READ IT. THIS COPY IS--- Q. OKAY. PAGE 19, I THINK IS THE NEXT ONE. NOW, MY QUESTION THERE IS, WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND AND "X" OUT THE COMMENTS? YOU HAD QUESTION MARKS, AND THEN YOU CROSSED IT OUT. A. YEAH. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 307 Q. DID THE CROSS OUT MEAN THAT YOU JOTTED THAT DOWN, AND THEN FOUND SOMETHING THAT SATISFIED THAT CONCERN? A. I THINK IT DOES -- TO SEE IF CONCERN--- (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. ---I THINK THAT IT DID. Q. OKAY. LOOK DOWN TO FIGURE 8--- A. YEAH. Q. ---WHAT WAS YOUR MOTIVATION FOR THIS EQUATION THAT YOU'VE INSERTED THERE? A. I THINK IT WAS JUST TO IDENTIFY IF -- I'M JUST SPECULATING, BUT I THINK IT WAS JUST TO IDENTIFY WHAT F'S OF W REFERRED TO. SO, I HAD IT ON THE FIGURE. Q. OH, SO, YOU WENT BACK--- A. YEAH. Q. ---AND GOT THE EQUATION AND TRANSPOSED IT? A. YEAH, JUST PUT IT ON THE FIGURE. Q. THERE'S -- THE FINAL QUESTION -- WHICH WE'RE NEVER SUPPOSED TO SAY, 'CAUSE WE ALWAYS LIE WHEN WE SAY THAT -- DO YOU PLAN TO DO ANY ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS OF DR. WALKER'S WORK WITH RESPECT TO TREND ANALYSIS? A. NO. DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 308 Q. NONE WHATSOEVER? A. I DON'T -- I HAVE NO PLANS. IT'S NOT -- TREND ANALYSIS IS NOT PART OF SONG'S DISSERTATION. Q. SO, ANY ANALYSIS -- WELL, I SAID ONE--- A. OKAY. THANKS. MR. FITZGERALD: THANK YOU, DOCTOR. WITNESS: UH-HUH (YES). ------------------------------------------------------- (THEREUPON, THE DEPOSITION WAS CONCLUDED AT 11:31 A.M.) ------------------------------------------------------- DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 309 NORTH CAROLINA DURHAM COUNTY I, DR. KENNETH HOWLAND RECKHOW, HAVE READ THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT OF MY DEPOSITION, VOLUME I, AND DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THE PRECEDING PAGES 1 THROUGH 308 CONSTITUTE A TRUE AND ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION OF MY TESTIMONY. ______________________________ KENNETH HOWLAND RECKHOW, Ph.D. SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME, A NOTARY PUBLIC, THIS THE ____ DAY OF ________________, 1993. _______________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC MY COMMISSION EXPIRES: _______________________________ DR. RECKHOW VOLUME I PAGE 310 NORTH CAROLINA WAKE COUNTY C E R T I F I C A T E I, CAROL S. YOUNG, A NOTARY PUBLIC, DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING DEPOSITION, TAKEN BY PAMELA S. LILES, A NOTARY PUBLIC, WAS REPORTED AND TRANSCRIBED UNDER MY DIRECT SUPERVISION, AND THAT THE FOREGOING 308 PAGES CONSTITUTE A TRUE AND ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION OF THE TESTIMONY OF THE SAID DEPONENT. I DO FURTHER CERTIFY THAT THE PERSONS WERE PRESENT AS STATED IN THE CAPTION. I DO FURTHER CERTIFY THAT I AM NOT OF COUNSEL FOR, OR IN THE EMPLOYMENT OF EITHER OF THE PARTIES TO THIS ACTION, NOR AM I INTERESTED IN THE RESULTS OF THIS ACTION. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I HAVE HEREUNTO SUBSCRIBED MY NAME, THIS THE 29TH DAY OF APRIL, 1993. _____________________________ CAROL S. YOUNG CAROLYN Y. HALL & ASSOCIATES 2551 ALBEMARLE AVENUE RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA 27610 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES DECEMBER 26, 1995