STATE OF FLORIDA DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE ) OF FLORIDA, a Florida ) Agricultural Cooperative ) Marketing Association, ROTH ) FARMS, INC., AND WEDGWORTH ) FARMS, INC., ) ) and ) ) FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, ) INC.; UNITED STATES SUGAR ) CORPORATION; and NEW HOPE ) SOUTH, INC., ) ) CASE NOS. 92-3038 and ) 92-3039 ) 92-3040 FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE ) ASSOCIATION, LEWIS POPE FARMS, ) W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., ) and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., ) ) Petitioners, ) ) vs. ) ) SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT ) DISTRICT, an Agency of the ) State of Florida, ) ) Respondent, ) ) and ) ) MICCOSUKEE TRIBE OF INDIANS OF ) FLORIDA, the UNITED STATES OF ) AMERICA, and FLORIDA DEPARTMENT ) OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, ) and the FLORIDA WILDLIFE ) FEDERATION, ) ) Intervenors. ) ) DEPOSITION OF ALBERTO S. RECIO BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE DEPOSITION OF ALBERTO S. RECIO 250 Australian Avenue South Clearlake Center Suite 1403 West Palm Beach, Florida February 9, 1993 9:52 A.M. A P P E A R A N C E S: FOR PETITIONERS FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.; UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC.: PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK BY: MARK T. KOBELINSKI, ESQ. One Biscayne Tower Suite 3636 Two South Biscayne Boulevard Miami, Florida 33131 (305) 358-3000 FOR RESPONDENT-INTERVENOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ROBERTO MARTINEZ, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY BY: THOMAS A. WATTS-FITZGERALD, ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY Southern District of Florida 155 South Miami Avenue Suite 627 Miami, Florida 33130 (305) 536-5927 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE A P P E A R A N C E S (continued) FOR NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC. AS IN-HOUSE COUNSEL: WILLIAM F. TARR, ESQ. 316 Royal Poinciana Plaza P.O. Box 1059 Palm Beach, Florida 33480 (407) 655-6303 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 The deposition of ALBERTO S. RECIO, a witness of 2 lawful age, taken for the purpose of discovery and for 3 use as evidence in the above-styled cause, pending in the 4 State of Florida, Division of Administrative Hearings, 5 pursuant to notice, before Pamela S. Wilson, Notary 6 Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, at the 7 time and place aforesaid. 8 * * * * * * * 9 I N D E X 10 WITNESS DIRECT 11 ALBERTO S. RECIO 12 (By Mr. Watts-FitzGerald) 5 13 14 15 E X H I B I T S 16 RECIO FOR IDENTIFICATION 17 1(1-6) Notice of Taking Deposition 7 18 2(1-3) Witness's CV 20 19 3 Witness 's designated subject matter 130 20 4 Copy of "The Palm Beach Post" article dated January 24, 1993 166 21 5(1-33) Everglades Research and Education 22 Center "Results and Recommendations" 167 23 6(1-11) Fertilizer Maps 170 24 25 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Thereupon: 2 ALBERTO S. RECIO 3 was called as a witness by the Defendant and, having been 4 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: 7 Q Good morning, Mr. Recio. I'm 8 Tom FitzGerald, representing the United States, which 9 served the Notice of Deposition on you. 10 Have you ever been deposed before, sir? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q When was that? 13 A Couple of occasions a year or two ago. 14 Q In connection with what case? 15 A The last one I remember was the Closter 16 Farms and the fishermen for the lake. I don't remember 17 exactly the name of the group. 18 Q That had to do with the Fanjul 19 organization's attempt to acquire the Closter Farms and 20 the Florida fishermen trying to persuade the -- 21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection. No foundation. 22 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You can answer 23 that. Is that the case you're talking about? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Have you been deposed other than in that 5ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 case? 2 A I don't remember. 3 Q So far as you remember, only the one time? 4 A (Witness indicates by nodding head up and 5 down.) 6 Q Okay. Well, you may recall from that, but 7 in case you don't, if at any time I ask a question and 8 you don't understand the question or you want me to 9 clarify what it is I mean, please just tell me, and I'll 10 try to restate the question in a way you're more 11 comfortable with. 12 During the course of the proceedings, if 13 your counsel objects to a question, I'm sure he has 14 explained to you that you are still obligated to answer 15 the question unless he specifically directs you not to 16 answer. But if he does object, you should stop for a 17 minute so we can deal with it. It may be something we 18 can correct. If not, simply go ahead unless he directs 19 you not to answer. 20 If at any time during the deposition you 21 want to take a break, get a drink of water or cup of 22 coffee, let me know. We'll probably break for lunch 23 around noon or so since we're getting a little bit of a 24 late start. And if you decide you want a break earlier, 25 let me know. We'll try to find a convenient place to 6ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 break. 2 Do you understand all that? 3 A Yes. 4 (Recio Exhibit 1(1-6) was marked 5 for identification by the reporter and is 6 included herewith.) 7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I'm showing you 8 what has been marked as Exhibit 1 for this deposition. 9 It's a copy of the Deposition Notice. Have you seen that 10 before, Mr. Recio? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Have you had a chance to go through the 13 document with regard to the particular documents it asked 14 for you to produce here today, starting on the bottom of 15 page 5 and going over to page 6? 16 A Yes. The documents, that's been provided to 17 you. 18 Q We'll get to the documents that you brought. 19 But have you had a chance to go through the -- what is 20 it? -- eight numbered paragraphs, starting on the bottom 21 of page 5 that specify what documents we were asking you 22 to bring? 23 A I have been looking through the ones that we 24 provided to you and more exactly if they coincide with 25 this or not. 7ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q How did you go about finding documents that 2 met the requirements of the Notice, Hearing Notice of 3 this -- Deposition Notice. I'm sorry. 4 A By going over to the New Hope South farm 5 office and trying to get whatever documents were 6 requested over here. 7 Q Where are the offices of New Hope South 8 located where your records would have been? 9 A South Highway 27. 10 Q Okay. In what city? 11 A It is not any city. It's in the field. 12 Q Pardon me? In an unincorporated area? Who 13 actually maintains those records, maintains custody on a 14 day-to-day basis? 15 A Our manager. 16 MR. TARR: Manager. 17 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What's the 18 manager's name? 19 A Calixto Garcia. 20 Q Where is your office, sir? 21 A My office is located in Osceola Farms. 22 Q Do you have a formal position with Osceola 23 Farms? 24 A Yes. 25 Q What is your position with Osceola? 8ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A Vice-president. 2 Q In the designation filed by Peeples, Earl in 3 October of this past year, you were described as the 4 senior vice-president of New Hope South, Incorporated, 5 with an address in Palm Beach, Florida, a post office box 6 address, I guess, and addressed to Royal Poinciana Plaza. 7 Are you a senior vice-president of New Hope South, also? 8 A Yes. 9 Q So you're senior vice-president of New Hope 10 South and just vice-president at Osceola or -- 11 A Just vice-president. 12 Q Do you hold at this time any other corporate 13 officer positions with any corporation or entity involved 14 in farming in the State of Florida? 15 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance of 16 the question. 17 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You can answer. 18 A Yes, I do. 19 Q What other corporations do you have a 20 position with at this time? 21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance. 22 You can respond. 23 THE WITNESS: I'm a senior vice-president of 24 Okeelanta Corporation. 25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okeelanta 9ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Corporation? 2 A Okeelanta. 3 Q Any others? 4 A I'm a vice-president of several 5 corporations. 6 Q What corporations are those? 7 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 8 relevance. 9 THE WITNESS: New Hope Sugar Comany. 10 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What company? 11 A New Hope Sugar Company. 12 Q Okay. 13 A South Florida Industry. 14 Q That's "Industry"? 15 A Industry. 16 Q What is the business of that corporation? 17 A It's agriculture. 18 Q Within the EAA? 19 A Yes. 20 Q What type of agriculture is South Florida 21 Industry involved in? 22 MR. KOBELINSKI: Again, object to the 23 relevance. 24 Go ahead. 25 THE WITNESS: Primarily farming sugar 10ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 cane. 2 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Is that a wholly 3 owned subsidiary of any other company? 4 MR. KOBELINSKI: I'll object to the 5 relevance as to ownership of South Florida 6 Industry. 7 THE WITNESS: South Florida Industry is 8 owned by New Hope Sugar Co-op. 9 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: New Hope Sugar 10 Co-op? What's the relationship of New Hope Sugar Company 11 to New Hope South, Incorporated? 12 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance, 13 and it assumes a relevance that has not been 14 stated in the record. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I don't know any 16 relationship between New Hope Sugar Company and 17 New Hope South. 18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Who were the other 19 directors of New Hope Sugar Company? 20 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the -- 21 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I'm sorry. Who 22 were the other officers? Who's the director? the 23 president? 24 A Of New Hope Sugar Company? 25 Q Yes. 11ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance. 2 THE WITNESS: Alfonso Fanjul. 3 Q Is Alfonso Fanjul also the president of New 4 Hope? 5 A He's the -- 6 Q Who's the president? 7 A Jose Fanjul. 8 Q Who is the president of South Florida 9 Industry? 10 MR. KOBELINSKI: Again, same objection as 11 to relevance. 12 THE WITNESS: It's the same person. 13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Alfonso or Jose? 14 A The president is Jose. 15 Q Who is the chairman? 16 A Alfonso. 17 Q You also said you were a vice-president of 18 Okeelanta Corporation. Who is the president? 19 A Jose Fanjul. 20 Q And who's chairman of the corporation? 21 A Alfonso Fanjul. 22 Q Are you an officer of any sort with Flo-Sun? 23 A Yes. 24 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance. 25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What's your 12ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 position with Flo-Sun? 2 A Vice-president. 3 Q Who is the president of Flo-Sun? 4 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance. 5 THE WITNESS: Jose Fanjul. 6 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Who is the 7 chairman? 8 A Alfonso Fanjul. 9 Q Is Flo-Sun a holding company? 10 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to the 11 relevance for these proceedings. 12 THE WITNESS: I really don't know how to 13 answer that question. 14 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What are the 15 nature -- you're vice-president with Flo-Sun. What is 16 the nature of your duties with Flo-Sun -- 17 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevancy. 18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: -- as 19 vice-president? 20 A My duties as a vice-president of Flo-Sun are 21 to oversee any farming operation related to Flo-Sun. 22 Q When you say oversee farming operations 23 related to Flo-Sun, does that mean you oversee the 24 farming operations of the series of company's we've just 25 identified that you are either a vice-president or senior 13ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 vice-president for? 2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance 3 and objection as to lack of foundation of the 4 question. 5 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 6 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. So you then 7 oversee the farming-operation side for New Hope Sugar 8 Co-op, South Florida Industry, New Hope Sugar Company, 9 Okeelanta Corporation and Osceola Farms? For all those? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Are there any other companies engaged in 12 farming activities in the EAA over which you exercise 13 oversight of the farming operations? 14 A No. 15 Q Okay. If I can, let's go through that list 16 again and ask how long you have been in your 17 vice-presidency position with each of those companies, 18 starting with Osceola Farms. 19 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to 20 relevance. 21 You can respond. 22 THE WITNESS: About fifteen years. 23 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. Okeelanta? 24 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 25 relevance. 14ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Counsel, if you'd 2 like, I'll accept a standing objection on 3 relevance as to this line of questioning, just 4 for convenience. 5 MR. KOBELINSKI: That's fine. 6 THE WITNESS: Seven years. 7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you know who 8 held the position before you with Okeelanta, if it 9 existed? 10 A No, I don't. 11 Q How long have you been a vice-president for 12 New Hope Sugar Company? 13 A Over twenty years. 14 Q And how long for South Florida Industry? 15 A I don't remember exactly. Maybe eight 16 years. 17 Q And New Hope Sugar Co-op? 18 A Exactly, I don't remember. Seven, eight 19 years. 20 Q About the same amount of time you've been 21 with Okeelanta as a vice-president? 22 A No. A little bit longer. 23 Q Longer? You're listed as a senior 24 vice-president, for testimonial purposes, of New Hope 25 South, Incorporated. Is that the same as New Hope Sugar 15ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Company? 2 A No. 3 Q Is that the same as New Hope Sugar Co-op? 4 A No. 5 Q How long have you been senior 6 vice-president -- vice-president with New Hope South, 7 Inc.? 8 A Four or five years. 9 Q Do you know who had the position before you, 10 if it existed before that? 11 A No. 12 Q Did the company exist longer ago than five 13 years? 14 A No. 15 Q So it's been in existence approximately five 16 years, then. Do you know if Okeelanta existed as a 17 corporation prior to your being a senior VP about 18 seven years ago? 19 A No. 20 Q It did not exist? 21 A I don't think so. 22 Q Same question with regard to New Hope Sugar 23 Co-op. You said you'd been there about eight years. Did 24 it exist prior to that? 25 A No. 16ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Do any of the companies for which you 2 exercise agricultural-production oversight engage in any 3 other agricultural activities in the EAA other than the 4 growing of sugar cane? 5 A Yes. 6 Q What other agricultural activities? And 7 please tell me which company you're referring to, the 8 industries engaged in, or those various businesses. 9 MR. KOBELINSKI: I'll object to the 10 relevance of the question to the extent it goes 11 toward agricultural practices other than those of 12 New Hope South, Inc. 13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You can answer. 14 A We grow rice. 15 Q Which companies, when you say "we," are you 16 referring to? 17 A I'm talking about New Hope South. 18 Q New Hope South grows some rice. Do any of 19 the other agricultural enterprises you're involved in 20 grow rice? 21 A Yes. 22 Q All of them? 23 A Most of them. 24 Q Which ones -- it's probably easier, then, to 25 exclude. Which ones do not grow rice? 17ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A I by memory cannot answer that question. 2 Q Do any of those organizations have a mill or 3 processing facility for rice in the EAA? 4 A No. 5 Q The rice that is grown under your general 6 supervision for those companies, by whom is it processed? 7 A By -- 8 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the 9 relevance of question to the extent it goes 10 beyond -- 11 THE WITNESS: By Sem-Chi rice mill. 12 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: By Sem-Chi? 13 A S-e-m, dash, C-h-i. 14 Q Where is that located? 15 A It's located south off of old Highway 80, 16 the road that goes to Okeelanta Corporation. 17 Q Do you know by whom that's owned? 18 A By Okeelanta Corporation. 19 Q Through your senior vice-presidency with 20 Okeelanta, do you have any direct involvement in the 21 Sem-Chi mill? 22 A Yes. 23 Q What do you do with the Sem-Chi mill? 24 MR. KOBELINSKI: Again, object to the 25 legal relevance of these questions with regard to 18ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 these proceedings. 2 THE WITNESS: I'm the vice-president. 3 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Who is the 4 president of -- are you a vice-president separately for 5 Sem-Chi? Is that a separate corporation? 6 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the extent it 7 calls for a legal conclusion. 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. I think it's a -- it's 9 a separate corporation. 10 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are you an officer 11 of that corporation, too, if you know? 12 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance. 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. 14 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Vice-president? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Who's the president? 17 A Jose Fanjul. 18 Q And the chairman is Alfonso -- 19 A Right. 20 Q -- Fanjul? 21 Okay. Do all of the companies that you are 22 involved with in the agricultural industry in the EAA 23 send their rice -- those that grow rice -- to the Sem-Chi 24 mill? 25 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the extent 19ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 it calls for -- 2 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 3 MR. KOBELINSKI: -- information on 4 production of rice other than by New Hope South, 5 Inc. 6 (Recio Exhibit 2(1-3) was marked 7 for identification by the reporter and is 8 included herewith.) 9 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I have here, 10 Mr. Recio, what's been produced by you this morning. 11 It's been marked as Exhibit 2, and it appears to be a 12 brief sort of job-description statement and then a 13 curriculum vitae or biographical statement. If you 14 could, just take a look at this and tell me if that's 15 your current CV or biographical statement. 16 A Yes. 17 Q Mr. Recio, it states here that in addition 18 to being a senior vice-president, you are also a director 19 of Okeelanta Corporation; is that correct? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Are you also a director of Flo-Sun? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q With regard to the other agri-businesses in 24 the EAA that we've been discussing, in addition to being 25 vice-president of each of those organizations, are you 20ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 the director of each of those as well? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance. 4 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: In addition to 5 being an officer and director of those approximately six 6 or seven corporate entities, do you have an ownership 7 interest in those entities? 8 A No. 9 Q Do you have an ownership interest in any of 10 those entities? 11 A No. 12 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance. 13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are you a salaried 14 employee of each of those entities? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And that's in your capacity as 17 vice-president? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Are you separately compensated for being a 20 director of those corporations? 21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance. 22 THE WITNESS: I directly were not being 23 compensated independently, but I know that my salary has 24 to be redistributed. 25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: So your salary 21ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 that you receive as a vice-president includes everything 2 in terms of your work as a director as well? 3 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the -- 4 THE WITNESS: Yes. 5 MR. KOBELINSKI: -- relevancy of the 6 question. 7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are any of those 8 companies publicly traded? 9 A No. 10 Q Do you hold stock in any of those companies? 11 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection. Asked and 12 answered and relevance. 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. 14 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Which companies do 15 you hold stock in? 16 A Flo-Sun. 17 Q Okay. Do you have stock options on Flo-Sun? 18 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance. 19 THE WITNESS: The stock I have are stock 20 options. 21 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are any of the 22 companies we've been discussing with which you're 23 involved in agricultural business in the EAA not 24 currently producing sugar cane in the EAA? 25 A No. 22ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Can you recall if any of them are not 2 currently growing or producing rice in the EAA? 3 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form of 4 the question. It's stated as negative, and also 5 object to the relevance of the question. 6 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat your 7 question? 8 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You indicated 9 earlier that some of those companies that you conduct 10 agricultural oversight or production oversight in the EAA 11 for have produced or produce rice. What I'm trying to 12 find out, if you can help me out here, is: Are they all 13 currently producing rice, or have any perhaps stopped 14 being involved in the rice-growing business? 15 A That varies from year to year. 16 Q Is that dependent on the growth patterns of 17 the sugar cane, when and where your companies decide to 18 grow rice? 19 MR. KOBELINSKI: I'll object to the form 20 of the question to, number one, "your companies". 21 Number two, I'll object to the extent it calls 22 for information outside of that of the 23 agricultural practices of New Hope South, Inc. 24 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I'll rephrase. 25 Q When I say "your companies," I understand 23ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 you don't own the companies, but the companies with which 2 you're associated is what I meant when I say "your 3 companies," the companies of which you're an officer or 4 director. 5 Does the decision by those companies to grow 6 rice in any given year -- is that tied or related to the 7 pattern of growth of sugar cane on the lands available to 8 those companies? 9 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 10 relevance. 11 THE WITNESS: Rice is being grown by the 12 time the cane is rotated. 13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: So when a field is 14 left fallow from cane, the companies will occasionally or 15 as a practice grow rice in an off-year -- or off crop? 16 A Yes. 17 Q In your experience as the supervisor of 18 agricultural production for those companies, is that 19 always done? Do they always grow rice during the fallow 20 season between cane rotations? 21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance. 22 Also object to the form of the question to extent 23 it encompasses all companies even though all are 24 not in. 25 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Just so maybe I can 24ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 clarify this, would you explain how, as a fact 2 witness on agricultural practices, that could be 3 irrelevant when I'm asking him what their 4 agricultural practices are with regard to 5 rotating crops? 6 MR. KOBELINSKI: Again, my objection was 7 to the agricultural practices other than those of 8 New Hope South, Inc., as the Petitioner here. 9 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. If you can 10 answer, understand, my question is not restricted to New 11 Hope South, Inc. I'm talking about the six or eight 12 companies you're associated with. 13 A Not always are they rotated with rice. 14 Q Who makes the decision whether to plant in 15 the off-season, if you will, or at the rotation out of 16 sugar-cane growth rice in a particular field? 17 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form of 18 the question. It does not specify as to what 19 company or what fields are being referenced. 20 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Well, maybe I can 21 clarify it. 22 Q Mr. Recio, that type of decision, does that 23 fall within your area of responsibility for New Hope 24 South? 25 A It been discussed with me by the local 25ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 managers. 2 Q The local manager for New Hope being 3 Calixto Garcia? 4 A Correct. 5 Q So he would discuss for you the lands under 6 the control of New Hope South, Incorporated, whether or 7 not to plant rice in any given year in a given field? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q Let me ask, what factors do you consider to 10 make that decision? 11 A Type of soil and conditions. 12 Q How much land has New Hope South had in 13 sugar cane production since it began seven years ago -- 14 approximately seven years ago? 15 A It's about 27,000. 16 Q And all that land, is it within the EAA? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Do you know which drainage basins the land 19 is in? 20 A Primarily it drains to the north New River 21 Canal, and the other canal is, as I understand, the 22 Hillsboro Canal. 23 Q So the properties that are being farmed by 24 New Hope South are primarily towards the eastern side of 25 the EAA, southeastern EAA? 26ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A To the south. 2 Q Has New Hope South farmed essentially the 3 same 27,000 acres during its entire existence? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Is that land owned by New Hope South? 6 A Part. 7 Q Who owns the balance of the land? 8 A Okeelanta Corporation. 9 Q Does New Hope South lease that land to 10 Okeelanta Corporation? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q In any given year over the past eight 13 years -- seven to eight years that New Hope South has 14 been farming, how much of the 27,000 acres is devoted, in 15 any given year, to sugar cane? 16 A 80, 85 percent. 17 Q And the balance, the 15 to 20 percent that 18 is not in sugar cane in any given year, what crop, if 19 any, is it? 20 A That's where the rice is being grown. 21 Q Does New Hope South ever leave land entirely 22 fallow? 23 A Occasionally. 24 Q And for what purpose would you decide to 25 leave land fallow? 27ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A If it's not suitable for rice. 2 Q What type of soil do you need to grow rice 3 in the EAA? 4 A A level field with a good drainage and 5 irrigation area. 6 Q Are not a level field and good drainage and 7 irrigation required for sugar cane growth as well? 8 A No. That's more just the rice. 9 Q Is the rice more sensitive to water level or 10 water table level than sugar cane? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q Of the 15 to 20 percent of land controlled 13 by New Hope South, Inc., that would be fallow or not from 14 sugar cane in any given year, how much of that would be 15 truly fallow in no crop at all, no rice, just lying 16 there? 17 A It might change from year to year. 18 Q Is an effort made to minimize the amount of 19 land that just sits idle? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Because idle land is producing no return to 22 the company -- is that correct? -- if there's no crop on 23 it? 24 A Yes. 25 Q In your decision in consultation with 28ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Mr. Garcia as to whether or not to plant rice on a given 2 property in a year when it's not planted in cane, do you 3 consider the market conditions, market prices for rice? 4 A No. 5 Q Do you take into account in any way the cost 6 of producing that crop before you make the decision to 7 plant a particular field in rice? 8 A Not exactly. 9 Q Why not? 10 A Rice has been produced in rotation with cane 11 not as much for a profit. It's a good agricultural 12 practice to improve the condition of the land. 13 Q What does growing rice in former sugar cane 14 land do for the land? 15 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form of the 16 question to the extent it refers to "former sugar 17 cane land." 18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You stated in your 19 testimony previously, if I understood it correctly, that 20 you would be growing rice out of -- during a rotational 21 period when the particular field was not planted in sugar 22 cane, and you have said that you do that as a farming 23 practice that is good for the land. 24 What is it that the rice crop does for the 25 land during the periods the land is not planted in sugar 29ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 cane? 2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form of the 3 question to the extent it paraphrased an 4 incomplete summary of what his prior testimony 5 is. 6 You can answer. 7 THE WITNESS: By growing rice you have to 8 level your fields. You have to keep the cover 9 crop like the rice, and then the rice will be 10 going back to the land, the fiber of the rice. 11 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Does that act as a 12 natural fertilizer for subsequent crops of sugar cane? 13 A It improve the physical condition of the 14 soil. 15 Q "By physical condition," do you mean it 16 aerates the soil, or it breaks it up? What precisely 17 does it mean? 18 A By adding fiber, you make it more fluffy and 19 better condition. 20 Q How do you level the field after sugar cane 21 has been planted in order for it to be level enough for 22 rice? 23 A By a lot of leveling devices operated by 24 laser beam. 25 Q Does New Hope South maintain its own 30ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 equipment to do that? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q Is that New Hope South equipment for -- is 4 it equipment that is common to the six to eight companies 5 that you do agricultural oversight for? 6 A It's owned by New Hope South. 7 Q Do each of the companies that you provide 8 agricultural oversight for do the same type of thing with 9 regard to planting rice? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q Does each have its own leveling equipment? 12 A Yes, sir. 13 Q Do you level every time you're going to 14 plant rice? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q Without exception? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q Does a crop of sugar cane and its several 19 ratoons -- that's r-a-t-o-o-n, ratoons -- affect the 20 level of the field such that you must do it every time to 21 successfully cultivate rice? 22 A To successfully cultivate rice, you need to 23 have a perfect leveling. 24 Q Do you flood the fields that you're going to 25 plant in rice prior to the planting? 31ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A No. 2 Q On the small percentage of fields that New 3 Hope South allows to lay fallow and not plant in rice 4 during a rotation out of sugar cane, do you flood its 5 fields? 6 A If it's allowed by the South Florida Water 7 Management District. 8 Q What's the purpose of flooding the field? 9 A To better control the soil's insects. 10 Q How long do you flood the field for in order 11 to control the insects in the soil? 12 A For as long as you can. 13 Q Is there any outside limit practically, from 14 a farming standpoint, or can you leave it flooded until 15 you're ready to plant it again? 16 A As close as you can be able to plant your 17 next crop. 18 Q Okay. In your experience, is rainfall 19 sufficient to maintain the flooded condition of the 20 field? 21 A In certain years, yes. 22 Q How about in an average rainfall year in the 23 EAA? 24 A No. You have to depend on the flood and 25 pump the water in. 32ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q You draw water from the primary canals of 2 the South Florida Water Management District? 3 A We draw waters from waters primarily in the 4 farm before we actually draw waters from the primary 5 canals. 6 Q Does New Hope South, Inc.'s farms -- the 7 fields that you actually cultivate, are they contiguous, 8 if you understand what I mean? Are they all -- 9 A Let me ask you a question. 10 Q Sure. 11 A Are you referring to rice, or are you 12 referring to cane? 13 Q I'm referring to all the land now, rice and 14 cane. Are they contiguous such that you can move water 15 from a cane field to a rice field and back and through 16 your field ditches and drainage ditches? 17 A In the case of New Hope South, yes. 18 Q So New Hope South land is contiguous 19 hydrologically, in terms of -- 20 A Two separate units. 21 Q Are they connected by canals? 22 A The two units, no. 23 Q Do you grow rice in both units? 24 A Yes. 25 Q When you say you try and move water around 33ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 internally first to maintain flooded condition of a 2 field, can you move rice -- I'm sorry. Can you move 3 water between those two units? 4 A No. 5 Q Or only between units? 6 A No. 7 Q Other companies or enterprises farm the 8 lands between the two units? 9 A We are divided by north New River Canal and 10 27. 11 Q So you're across the canal and across the 12 highway; so that's why you can't move -- 13 A Yes. 14 Q In a dry year, when you are irrigating 15 instead of pumping, where do you acquire your irrigation 16 water for pumping? 17 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form of 18 question. It lacks definition of "dry year." 19 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you know what I 20 mean by "dry year"? 21 A We always draw water from South Florida 22 Water Management District when it's a dry year and when 23 it's allowed. 24 Q When would it be? 25 A When is it allowed? 34ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Yes. 2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the extent -- 3 THE WITNESS: South Florida Water 4 Management exercises control over the irrigation 5 water, and it allows you to draw water or not to 6 draw water. 7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you deal with 8 the South Florida Water Management District on those 9 issues, on water-availability issues? 10 A No. That's general orders by South Florida 11 Water Management District. 12 Q So if they impose water restrictions or use 13 restrictions, you would not be able to draw irrigation 14 water necessarily from their canals? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Okay. Do you recall that happening in the 17 time that you've been overseeing agricultural production 18 in the EAA? 19 A One or two times. 20 Q Do you remember, how long ago was the last? 21 A No. 22 Q In a year of average rainfall, do you know 23 what the -- as oversight for agricultural operations and 24 production, do you know what an average rainfall is in 25 the EAA? 35ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A Around 50 to 60 inches a year. 2 Q In a year of average rainfall, does New Hope 3 South still draw irrigation water from the canals? 4 A Occasionally. 5 Q Let's see. With regard to some of the 6 companies, you've been out there for about eighteen to 7 twenty years. So would I be correct in saying you've 8 seen some very wet years as well? 9 A Yes. 10 Q In very wet years, because of the timing of 11 the rainfall, would you still have drawn or would you 12 still expect to draw water to support your agricultural 13 operations from the primary canals of the district? 14 A Yes, but not at the time of the rain. 15 Q What type of muck are the two parcels or two 16 areas, units, farmed by New Hope South composed of, the 17 soil composition? 18 A It's a muck. 19 Q Do you know which type of muck? 20 A It's Okeelanta and Ceiro (phonetic). 21 Q Do you know the average muck depth in the 22 two areas? 23 A It varies. 24 Q Is that indicated anywhere in the documents 25 that you're producing this morning? 36ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A No. 2 Q It just says "muck." When did you first 3 begin your association with the Everglades Agricultural 4 Area? 5 A 1962. 6 Q And how did your association with the EAA 7 come about in 1962? 8 A I start working on the farm. 9 Q What had you done before that, prior to 10 1962? 11 A I was in Cuba. 12 Q I thought that date rang a familiar note. 13 You received a Master of Science degree in agricultural 14 engineering from the University of Havana in 1947? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q Did you, in the course of your studies for 17 the Master's, concentrate on any particular area of 18 agricultural engineering? 19 A No. 20 Q Can you describe for me the course of 21 instruction at that time for a Master's of Science in 22 agricultural engineering, what exactly that entailed? 23 A Let me qualify the Master degree. That's a 24 translation to the equivalent of the American studies. 25 In our case, you cannot get a Bachelor's and a Master's 37ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 in a separate way. You have to take five-year courses, 2 and at the end, it was a title being given of 3 agricultural engineer. 4 Q So that's a five-year course of instruction 5 that you took? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And what type of courses were you required 8 to take in order to achieve that degree? 9 A A lot of courses of going from basically 10 chemistry, physics, mathematics, and botany and going 11 over to specific courses in soil chemistry. 12 Q Did your courses in soil chemistry include 13 study in augmenting or enhancing soil quality for 14 agricultural purposes? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Did you study fertilization for crop 17 enhancement? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Did you have any courses at that time 20 specifically addressed to the cultivation or processing 21 of sugar cane? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And did you have any courses addressing the 24 production or processing of rice crops? 25 A Yes. 38ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Both rice and sugar cane were major crops in 2 Cuba at the time you received your degree, were they not? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Sugar cane more than rice? 5 A Yes. 6 Q After completing your course of study in 7 1947, how did you put your degree to practical use? What 8 did you do after that? 9 A I went to manage the family business 10 enterprise that was primarily a cattle farm. 11 Q Were you engaged at all in agricultural 12 operations other than the raising of cattle? 13 A No. 14 Q You indicate on your resume that you were 15 also working as an independent consultant for the cattle 16 ranches in Camaguey and Oriente in Cuba, the Provinces. 17 At that time had you any association with the Fanjul 18 farming interest -- 19 A No. 20 Q -- in Cuba? 21 (Whereupon Mr. Tarr left the deposition 22 proceedings.) 23 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. Your resume 24 indicates from 1952 to approximately 1959 you were an 25 agricultural agent in the Province of Camaguey for the 39ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Cuban government's Department of Agriculture. What was 2 the nature of your duties in that position? 3 A Similar to the county agent over here. 4 Q Okay. The county agent program in the 5 United States or in Florida -- as I understand it, they 6 provide advice and guidance to farm interests in their 7 area. 8 A That's correct. 9 Q So that's essentially what you were doing? 10 A Essentially. 11 Q What type of farm interests were you 12 providing to and guidance to in the Camaguey Province 13 during those seven years? 14 A It varies for different type of crop or 15 whatever the farmers need assistance to. 16 Q Were any of the farmers that you assisted 17 producing sugar cane? 18 A Yes. 19 Q How about rice? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Do you recall what type of advice or 22 guidance, if any, you were providing with regard to sugar 23 cane and rice during those years? 24 A The type to be using. 25 Q Did you give advice and guidance on the 40ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 issue of fertilizing sugar cane crops? 2 A Whatever they need. 3 Q Is the same true with regard to rice crops? 4 A That's right. 5 Q As part of your training for your degree and 6 your experience up through 1959 in Cuba, do you feel that 7 you have a detailed understanding of the requirements for 8 successfully growing rice and sugar? 9 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form to the 10 extent you're referencing a geographic area. 11 You can respond. 12 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat your 13 question? 14 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: During that 15 seven-year period and the five years of your degree 16 program before that -- I guess that actually skips the 17 few years that you were self-employed -- do you feel that 18 you gained a detailed understanding of what agricultural 19 conditions were required and what agricultural practices 20 were required in order to successfully produce sugar cane 21 and rice in Cuba -- I said in Cuba earlier -- during that 22 period of time? 23 A What do you mean "detailed"? 24 Q By "detailed," I mean the soil-chemistry 25 conditions, the growth periods, seed-selection criteria, 41ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 irrigation practices, cultivation-harvesting practices, 2 basically up through harvesting, not looking at 3 processing at the moment. 4 A Yes. 5 Q Did you also deal with the processing after 6 cultivation and harvesting of the crops? 7 (Interruption.) 8 (Whereupon Mr. Tarr entered the deposition 9 proceedings.) 10 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I guess the 11 pending question is: Do you or did you have any 12 involvement during your periods as an agricultural agent 13 for the Department of Agriculture in Camaguey any issues 14 related to post-harvest processing of sugar cane or rice? 15 A No. 16 Q So your work was all pre-harvest -- 17 A Correct. 18 Q -- or up to harvest, I guess? 19 A Correct. 20 Q And in Camaguey at that time, was any of the 21 sugar cane harvested mechanically? 22 A No. 23 Q How was the rice harvested? 24 A Mechanically. 25 Q Is rice harvested in the EAA mechanically? 42ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A Yes. 2 Q Is rice harvested anywhere in the United 3 States by hand? Probably not. 4 A I don't think so. 5 Q I think only in Southeast Asia, probably. 6 Your course of instruction, your Master's, did that 7 include courses in processing of agricultural products 8 after harvesting? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Did any of those directly relate to the 11 processing of sugar cane after harvest? 12 A Yes. 13 Q How about rice? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Up through 1959 in Cuba, had you had any 16 involvement at any time in the processing of those 17 products after harvest? 18 A No. 19 Q What was the Point IV Program to establish a 20 pasture experimental station that you reference in your 21 resume? 22 A The American -- he will give help to the 23 Latin American countries by which those countries would 24 open another door to improve the agriculture in general, 25 and they provide that open door in the form of equipment 43ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 and technicians. 2 Q Where was the pasture experimental station 3 that you were involved in? 4 A In Camaguey. 5 Q Did that deal with specific crops or types 6 of agriculture? 7 A It specifically was for pasture. 8 Q So it was in cattle? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And then there came a time in 1962 when you 11 relocated to the United States? 12 A In 1962. 13 Q And you more or less were immediately 14 employed by New Hope Sugar Company? 15 A Yes. 16 Q That was the first company within the EAA 17 that you became associated with after coming to the 18 United States? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q Who hired you for your work with that 21 company? 22 A Alfonso Fanjul. 23 Q What were your initial duties with New Hope 24 Sugar? 25 A I was a foreman. 44ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Was that field work, essentially field 2 supervision? 3 A Primarily field supervision. 4 Q How long were you in that position? 5 A Year and a half. 6 Q As a field supervisor, what was the actual 7 nature of your duties on a day-to-day basis? What did 8 you do for them? 9 A All was related to the agriculture. 10 Q At that time was that strictly with regard 11 to growing sugar cane? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Were they growing rice at that time as well? 14 A No. 15 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form of 16 "they." 17 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I'm referring to 18 the company, New Hope Sugar Company. I guess 19 you're right. We need to be fairly specific. A 20 lot of these names are fairly similar. 21 Q There's a New Hope Sugar Company, a New Hope 22 Sugar Co-op, and a New Hope South -- correct? -- 23 A Correct. 24 Q -- all three different companies? 25 In 1964 you became general manager of New 45ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Hope Sugar Company? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q How did your duties change in 1964 to the 4 present? Your resume, on the second page, indicates that 5 you were still general manager of New Hope Sugar Company; 6 is that correct? 7 A No. 8 Q Okay. You're a vice-president of New Hope 9 Sugar Company now; correct? 10 A Correct. 11 Q Who is the general manager now of New Hope 12 Sugar Company? 13 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance. 14 THE WITNESS: I don't think the Sugar 15 Company have a general manager now. 16 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Is it your 17 understanding the job is vacant, or they've reorganized, 18 and that job doesn't exist anymore? 19 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance. 20 THE WITNESS: New Hope Sugar Company is 21 part of the New Hope Sugar Co-op, and the Sugar 22 Farms Co-op is the one that do the farming for 23 New Hope Sugar Company. 24 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. I should 25 make a flow chart. The Sugar Co-op does the farming for 46ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 New Hope Sugar Company? 2 A Let me clarify. The Sugar Farms Co-op -- 3 Q Sugar Farms Co-op -- New Hope Sugar Company 4 of which you're vice-president has a business arrangement 5 with New Hope Sugar Farms Co-op for the farm's co-op to 6 do the actual farming? 7 A With Sugar Farms Co-op, not New Hope Sugar; 8 Sugar Farms. 9 Q No "co-op"? 10 A "Sugar," not "New Hope Farms Co-op." 11 Q So there are not three New Hope businesses? 12 There's two? There's New Hope South, and there is New 13 Hope Sugar Company, and then there's the Sugar Farms 14 Co-op, which does not have "New Hope South" in front of 15 it? 16 A No. 17 Q That's right? 18 A Can you repeat that again? 19 Q When we first started out, you said that 20 you've been with New Hope Sugar Company for 20 years or 21 so, which seems to match what's on your resume. That 22 still exists, and you're a vice-president of that 23 company? 24 A Yes. 25 Q You also mentioned a New Hope Sugar Co-op, 47ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 but if I understand you now, that's not a correct name? 2 A No. There is existing a New Hope Sugar 3 Co-op and also a Sugar Farms Co-op. 4 Q So there's both? 5 A There are two, two. 6 Q For whom does the Sugar Farms Co-op grow 7 sugar cane? 8 A For several companies. 9 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the 10 relevance. 11 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Which companies? 12 A New Hope Sugar Company; New Farm, Inc.; 13 South Florida Industry. 14 Q They do that under contract on leased lands? 15 A No. It's a cooperative management. 16 Q Is Sugar Farms Co-op currently growing sugar 17 cane for New Hope South? 18 A No. 19 Q Is it currently growing rice for New Hope 20 South? 21 A No. 22 Q Does it ever grow rice? 23 A The Sugar Farms Co-op grow rice. 24 Q It does? For whom does Sugar Farms Co-op 25 grow the rice? 48ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A For any one of the farms. 2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Its irrelevant. 3 THE WITNESS: For any one of the farms 4 they farm for. 5 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How is it 6 determined which of the farms the Sugar Farms Co-op is 7 growing the crop for? Is that done by field, whoever 8 controls the field? 9 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form of the 10 question. 11 THE WITNESS: I really don't understand 12 exactly your question, what you are aiming to. 13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: In a given crop 14 year, does Sugar Farms Co-op grow crops for more than one 15 company? 16 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the 17 relevance of the question. 18 THE WITNESS: Every year the Sugar Farms 19 Co-op do the farming operation for several of the 20 companies that always do that same thing. 21 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How do you figure 22 out or how can you tell which company a particular field 23 is being grown for if Sugar Farms Co-op is growing on 50 24 or 100 fields for several different companies? How do 25 you know which product from a particular field belongs or 49ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 is for the benefit of New Hope South or South Florida 2 Industries or New Farm, Incorporated? How do you tell 3 which one is which? 4 A They know which one's fields are each 5 company. 6 Q Is it because the field is owned by one of 7 those other companies? 8 A Owned or leased. 9 Q Or leased. So it has to do with who 10 controls the field literally -- 11 A Correct. 12 Q -- or whose field it is to farm? 13 And they subcontract, if you will, or have 14 the co-op come in, the farm's co-op, and actually do the 15 work for them? 16 A Correct. 17 Q And none of that work of Sugar Farms Co-op 18 is currently being done for New Hope South? 19 A No. 20 Q New Hope South has been in existence about 21 seven or eight years. Has Sugar Farms Co-op ever farmed 22 for New Hope South? 23 A No. 24 Q New Hope South always farms for itself? 25 A Correct. 50ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Under the management or general management 2 direction of Calixto Garcia? 3 A Correct. 4 MR. KOBELINSKI: Would this be a good spot 5 for a break? 6 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Sure. 7 (Recess.) 8 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Mr. Recio, your 9 resume also lists, from 1975 to the present, that you 10 were general manager for Osceola Farms; is that correct? 11 Are you the general manager there as well as 12 vice-president? 13 A No, no. This is an old resume. 14 Q I just wanted to kind of update it by asking 15 these questions so we're clear. With regard to the third 16 page, if you want to follow along, it indicates 1969 to 17 present, vice-president of New Hope Sugar Company. That 18 is still correct? 19 A Correct. 20 Q And 1969 to present, vice-president of 21 Florida Atlantic Land Corporation; is that correct? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Q What is Florida Atlantic Land Corporation? 24 A It's a landowner. 25 Q Who's the president of Florida Atlantic Land 51ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Corporation? 2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance. 3 THE WITNESS: Alfonso -- Jose Fanjul. 4 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: And Alfonso Fanjul 5 is the chairman? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Are you a director of the Florida Atlantic 8 Land Corporation as well as an officer? 9 A Yes. 10 Q I don't think we listed that earlier. If we 11 did, I missed it. Does it engage itself in any farming 12 within the EAA? 13 A Yes. 14 Q What type of farming activities does Florida 15 Atlantic Land Corporation engage in? 16 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance. 17 THE WITNESS: Primarily sugar cane. 18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How much land does 19 Florida Atlantic farm in the EAA? 20 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 21 relevance. 22 THE WITNESS: I don't remember. 23 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How about New Hope 24 Sugar Corporation? Is its land separate from New Hope 25 South's land? 52ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A Yes. 2 Q How much land does New Hope Sugar 3 Corporation farm in the EAA? 4 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't remember exactly. 6 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you remember, 7 approximately, with regard to any of the corporations for 8 which you are the agricultural production overseer other 9 than New Hope South, which you already told us was about 10 27,000 acres, how much land each farms? 11 A No. I cannot say that. 12 Q How about collectively? Overall in the EAA, 13 how much land are you the production overseer for? 14 A I hate to give you a number that might not 15 be correct. 16 Q I understand it would only be your best 17 estimate. I don't expect you to be down to the acre. It 18 probably changes occasionally. Can you give me an 19 estimation by percentage of sugar cane land in the EAA or 20 by just total acreage, approximately? 21 A Percentage of what? 22 Q Well, would you agree that this past harvest 23 season about 429,000 acres in the EAA were planted in 24 sugar cane and harvested? Does that sound about right? 25 A I don't know. I haven't checked the 53ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 figures. For old Everglades Agricultural Area on a 2 percentage, I don't know. 3 Q Would it be more than half? 4 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form. 5 Would what be more than half? 6 THE WITNESS: A lot less, I guess. 7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: A little less? 8 A A lot less. 9 Q Less than a quarter? Less than 100,000 10 acres? 11 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 12 form. It's unspecified as to what is being 13 referred to. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Let me be sure I 16 understand. You're telling me that Okeelanta, New Hope 17 Sugar, South Florida Industry, New Hope South, Sugar 18 Farms Co-op, Florida Atlantic Land Corporation, and 19 Osceola Farms -- together -- total less than 100,000 20 acres of farmland in the EAA? 21 A By memory -- 22 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form. 23 THE WITNESS: By memory, I cannot answer 24 that question. 25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You said that 54ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Mr. Garcia consults with you in making decisions on what 2 to plant for Osceola Farms; is that correct? 3 A No. 4 Q He doesn't? 5 A He does it for New Hope South. 6 Q I'm sorry. I have him -- he's with New Hope 7 South. Do each of those companies that I just mentioned 8 by name have a manager who does the same thing as 9 Mr. Garcia does for New Hope South? 10 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the 11 relevance of the question. 12 THE WITNESS: Not exactly. 13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Who makes the 14 decisions for the other companies as to what they will 15 plant -- what they will plant in rice, what they will 16 leave fallow -- in any given year? 17 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 18 relevance. 19 THE WITNESS: The New Hope Sugar -- excuse 20 me. The Sugar Farms Co-op do the decision for 21 the farms that they do farming for. 22 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Sugar Farms Co-op 23 makes the decisions, then, for New Hope Sugar? 24 A Yes. 25 Q For South Florida Industries? 55ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 2 relevance. 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 4 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Which or what 5 other companies does Sugar Farmers Co-op -- Sugar Farms 6 Co-op also farm other than those two, other than New Hope 7 Sugar and South Florida Industries? 8 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 9 relevance. 10 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Because I only got 11 two earlier. 12 THE WITNESS: Florida Atlantic. 13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Florida Atlantic 14 Land Company. So just for those three? Are you involved 15 in that decision? 16 A Which decision? 17 Q The decision by Sugar Farms Co-op as to what 18 to grow on which land in any given season? 19 A Up to a point, yes. 20 Q And with whom do you consult to reach those 21 decisions? 22 A With the Sugar Farms Co-op manager. 23 Q Who is that? 24 A Eduardo Recio. 25 Q Can you spell that last name? 56ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A R-e-c-i-o. 2 Q Any relation? 3 A Son. 4 Q It's not that big a surprise, frankly. Your 5 son listens to you, doesn't he? 6 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance. 7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: So you and your 8 son decide in consultation what ought to be grown by 9 Sugar Farms Co-op on the lands owned or controlled by New 10 Hope Sugar, South Florida Industries, and Florida 11 Atlantic Land Company. 12 Does anyone else participate in that 13 decision with you and your son? 14 A No. 15 Q I know I didn't ask with regard to Sugar 16 Farms Co-op. Approximately how much land does Sugar 17 Farms Co-op actually farm for those three companies that 18 I just mentioned? 19 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form. 20 There's no limitation as to what period of time 21 you're referring to, and I'll further object to 22 the relevance. 23 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: That's fine. 24 Q How long has Sugar Farms Co-op existed? 25 A Over ten years. 57ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Have you been associated with Sugar Farms 2 Co-op that entire time? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Over that ten-year period, if you can, can 5 you tell me how much land has been farmed by that 6 organization, the Sugar Farms Co-op? 7 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance. 8 THE WITNESS: It might have changed 9 because part of those lands might be leased land 10 and not been able to renew the lease. So it's 11 not a -- 12 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are they farming 13 more now, in this current crop year, than they did ten 14 years ago? 15 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 16 relevance. 17 THE WITNESS: More or less the same. 18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. And do you 19 have an estimate of what that total would be, 20 approximately? 21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to 22 relevance. 23 THE WITNESS: Around 15,000. 24 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How much of that 25 in any given year normally would be in sugar cane? 58ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A It varies from year to year, from 70 percent 2 to 80 percent. 3 Q That 70-to-80-percent number, you mentioned 4 it earlier with regard to New Hope South, I think. Is 5 that more or less the norm within the sugar industry in 6 the EAA? 7 A Yes. 8 Q What dictates that as being the norm? Why 9 70 to 80 percent? Is there a reason for that 10 agriculturally? 11 A You have to replant the sugar cane every 12 more or less three years. 13 Q When you plant sugar cane or seed cane -- is 14 that what you call it? "Seed cane"? 15 A Uh-huh. 16 Q -- how long is it before you get your first 17 crop in the seed cane? 18 A Over a year. 19 Q And what time of the year or what months do 20 you initially put out your seed cane? 21 A From October to January. 22 Q And when will that be harvested, then, if 23 you put it out, say, in January? 24 A January of the following year. 25 Q When it's harvested -- New Hope South, do 59ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 they harvest mechanically or by hand? 2 A Up to this year, by both. 3 Q What will be the practice hereafter, if you 4 know? 5 A I don't know. 6 Q How much of the 27,000 acres is done 7 mechanically by New Hope South? 8 A Approximately 50 percent. 9 Q And where do you acquire the laborers to 10 harvest the plantations by hand? 11 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to 12 relevance. 13 THE WITNESS: The farming operation -- 14 MR. KOBELINSKI: Go ahead. I'm sorry. 15 THE WITNESS: The farming operation do not 16 do the harvesting. The harvesting being done by 17 the sugar mills. 18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Which sugar mills 19 harvest the property farmed by New Hope South? 20 A Okeelanta and Atlantic. 21 Q Is Atlantic sugar mill owned by Florida 22 Atlantic Land Corporation? 23 A No. 24 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the 25 relevance of the question. 60ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Who owns the Atlantic sugar mill? 2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance. 3 THE WITNESS: Different owners, different 4 farmers. 5 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Is it a 6 cooperative? 7 A No. 8 Q And the other mill that you mentioned was 9 the Okeelanta mill? 10 A Correct. 11 Q Who owns the Okeelanta mill? 12 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 13 relevance. 14 THE WITNESS: New Hope Sugar Co-op. 15 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: And that's 16 separate from Sugar Farms Co-op? 17 A Correct. 18 Q You're a vice-president of New Hope Sugar 19 Co-op; correct? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Do you participate in the decision over how 22 much of New Hope South's 27,000 acres will be harvested 23 by Okeelanta and how much by Atlantic? 24 A Yes. 25 Q How do you make that decision? 61ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A By distributing the cane accordingly to the 2 amount of cane that you have. 3 Q Do you request bids from the two mills -- 4 A No. 5 Q -- to get the best price you can for the 6 sugar cane that you've grown? 7 A No. 8 Q Is the reason that you don't request bids 9 because both of those mills are owned by the same 10 essential group that owns New Hope South? 11 A Not exactly. 12 MR. KOBELINSKI: I'll object to the 13 relevance of the question. 14 THE WITNESS: Not exactly. 15 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you ever 16 solicit bids from other sugar mills within the EAA to see 17 if they would be interested in harvesting the cane on 18 lands farmed by New Hope South? 19 A It is not a custom in the area to solicit 20 bids for grinding cane. 21 Q Is New Hope South under long-term contract 22 to supply its sugar cane to either of those mills, 23 Okeelanta or Atlantic? 24 A Yes. 25 Q What is the duration of those contracts? 62ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 A I don't remember. 2 Q Did you participate in negotiation of those 3 contracts? 4 A No. 5 Q Who would have the responsibility for that 6 and would be most knowledgeable about it? 7 A I don't know that it would be a single 8 person or more than one person. 9 Q You're a director of every one of these 10 corporations, aren't you? 11 A Yes. 12 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form as 13 to "every one of these corporations." 14 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. If you'd 15 like me to give you the litany, I certainly will. 16 Q You are a director of New Hope Sugar 17 Company, Sugar Farms Co-op, Flo-Sun, New Hope Sugar 18 Co-op, Okeelanta, South Florida Industries, Osceola 19 Farms -- I know I missed one -- Florida Atlantic Land 20 Corporation. You're a director of every one of those 21 companies, are you not? 22 A Yes. 23 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance. 24 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You're an officer 25 of every one of those corporations, are you not? 63ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 2 relevance. 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 4 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you participate 5 in the meetings of the boards of directors of those 6 corporations? 7 A Yes. 8 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to 9 relevance. 10 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Have you ever 11 participated in the approval of contracts for the 12 supplying of the raw cane or the harvesting of raw cane 13 on New Hope South's lands by Okeelanta and Atlantic sugar 14 mills? 15 A Could you repeat that question? 16 Q Have you ever participated in discussions by 17 the boards, the boards of directors of those 18 corporations, of the contracts for the supplying or for 19 the harvesting of New Hope South's lands by Okeelanta and 20 Atlantic? 21 A No, by the board. 22 Q Do you know who signs those contracts? 23 A No. 24 Q Have you ever seen the contracts? 25 A No. 64ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 Q Do you know when they were last negotiated? 2 A No. 3 Q Do you know who does the negotiations? 4 A Donald Carson. 5 Q Is Mr. Carson a director of New Hope South? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Is he an officer of New Hope South? 8 A Yes. 9 Q What is his title? 10 A Executive vice-president. 11 Q Is he an officer of Okeelanta? 12 A Yes. 13 Q What is his title with Okeelanta? 14 A Executive vice-president. 15 Q Is he an officer of Atlantic? 16 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance. 17 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Is it Florida 18 Atlantic that owns the mill -- 19 A No. 20 Q -- Atlantic sugar mill? 21 Is he a director of the Atlantic sugar mill? 22 A Yes. 23 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to relevance of 24 this line of questioning. 25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Is he an officer 65ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 of the Atlantic sugar mill? 2 A No. 3 Q He's not the executive vice-president there? 4 A No. 5 Q When he negotiates these contracts, which 6 side is he representing if he is a director and an 7 officer of both Okeelanta and New Hope South? 8 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the extent 9 it calls for a legal conclusion -- 10 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: If you know. 11 MR. KOBELINSKI: -- and to the relevance. 12 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What is the 14 Florida Society of Sugar Cane Technologists? 15 A Florida -- 16 Q Association of Sugar Cane Technologists. 17 A That's the same group that we graduate from 18 Havana University and have a financial association here. 19 Q It's kind of the old boys' network from the 20 university? 21 A Correct. 22 Q How many members are there? 23 A I really don't know exactly how many, but 24 over 60 or 80. 25 Q Are they all within the EAA, or are they 66ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 also elsewhere in the State of Florida? 2 A No. They are scattered all around the 3 world. 4 Q Do you have a position with the Florida 5 Sugar Cane League? 6 A Yes. 7 Q What is your position with the league? 8 A Director. 9 Q Are you also an officer of the league? 10 A No. 11 Q What are your duties as a director of the 12 Florida Sugar Cane League? 13 A To assist at board of directors meetings. 14 Q How many directors are there? 15 A Ten or eleven. I don't know exactly. 16 Q How did you happen to achieve that position, 17 if you know? How did you come to be a director of the 18 league, I guess, is a better way to put it. 19 A Each one of the companies designates a 20 person that are going to be a director representing that 21 company. 22 Q Which company designated you to be a 23 director? 24 A Osceola Farms Company. 25 Q The other companies that you are also a 67ÿ BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE 1 director of, does each of those companies have a director