STATE OF FLORIDA

DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS

SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE )

OF FLORIDA, a Florida )

Agricultural Cooperative )

Marketing Association, ROTH )

FARMS, INC., AND WEDGWORTH )

FARMS, INC., )

)

and )

)

FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, )

INC.; UNITED STATES SUGAR )

CORPORATION; and NEW HOPE )

SOUTH, INC., )

) CASE NOS. 92-3038

and ) 92-3039

) 92-3040

FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE )

ASSOCIATION, LEWIS POPE FARMS, )

W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., )

and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., )

)

Petitioners, )

)

vs. )

)

SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )

DISTRICT, an Agency of the )

State of Florida, )

)

Respondent, )

)

and )

)

MICCOSUKEE TRIBE OF INDIANS OF )

FLORIDA, the UNITED STATES OF )

AMERICA, and FLORIDA DEPARTMENT )

OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, )

and the FLORIDA WILDLIFE )

FEDERATION, )

)

Intervenors. )

)

DEPOSITION OF ALBERTO S. RECIO

 

 

BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

DEPOSITION OF ALBERTO S. RECIO

250 Australian Avenue South

Clearlake Center

Suite 1403

West Palm Beach, Florida

February 9, 1993

9:52 A.M.

A P P E A R A N C E S:

FOR PETITIONERS FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.;

UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; and NEW HOPE

SOUTH, INC.:

PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK

BY: MARK T. KOBELINSKI, ESQ.

One Biscayne Tower

Suite 3636

Two South Biscayne Boulevard

Miami, Florida 33131

(305) 358-3000

FOR RESPONDENT-INTERVENOR THE UNITED STATES OF

AMERICA:

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

ROBERTO MARTINEZ,

UNITED STATES ATTORNEY

BY: THOMAS A. WATTS-FITZGERALD,

ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY

Southern District of Florida

155 South Miami Avenue

Suite 627

Miami, Florida 33130

(305) 536-5927

 

 

 

 

 

BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

A P P E A R A N C E S (continued)

FOR NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC. AS IN-HOUSE COUNSEL:

WILLIAM F. TARR, ESQ.

316 Royal Poinciana Plaza

P.O. Box 1059

Palm Beach, Florida 33480

(407) 655-6303

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 The deposition of ALBERTO S. RECIO, a witness of

2 lawful age, taken for the purpose of discovery and for

3 use as evidence in the above-styled cause, pending in the

4 State of Florida, Division of Administrative Hearings,

5 pursuant to notice, before Pamela S. Wilson, Notary

6 Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, at the

7 time and place aforesaid.

8 * * * * * * *

9 I N D E X

10

WITNESS DIRECT

11

ALBERTO S. RECIO

12

(By Mr. Watts-FitzGerald) 5

13

14

15 E X H I B I T S

16 RECIO FOR IDENTIFICATION

17 1(1-6) Notice of Taking Deposition 7

18 2(1-3) Witness's CV 20

19 3 Witness 's designated subject matter 130

20 4 Copy of "The Palm Beach Post"

article dated January 24, 1993 166

21

5(1-33) Everglades Research and Education

22 Center "Results and Recommendations" 167

23 6(1-11) Fertilizer Maps 170

24

25

 

BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 Thereupon:

2 ALBERTO S. RECIO

3 was called as a witness by the Defendant and, having been

4 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

5 DIRECT EXAMINATION

6 BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD:

7 Q Good morning, Mr. Recio. I'm

8 Tom FitzGerald, representing the United States, which

9 served the Notice of Deposition on you.

10 Have you ever been deposed before, sir?

11 A Yes, sir.

12 Q When was that?

13 A Couple of occasions a year or two ago.

14 Q In connection with what case?

15 A The last one I remember was the Closter

16 Farms and the fishermen for the lake. I don't remember

17 exactly the name of the group.

18 Q That had to do with the Fanjul

19 organization's attempt to acquire the Closter Farms and

20 the Florida fishermen trying to persuade the --

21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection. No foundation.

22 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You can answer

23 that. Is that the case you're talking about?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Have you been deposed other than in that

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1 case?

2 A I don't remember.

3 Q So far as you remember, only the one time?

4 A (Witness indicates by nodding head up and

5 down.)

6 Q Okay. Well, you may recall from that, but

7 in case you don't, if at any time I ask a question and

8 you don't understand the question or you want me to

9 clarify what it is I mean, please just tell me, and I'll

10 try to restate the question in a way you're more

11 comfortable with.

12 During the course of the proceedings, if

13 your counsel objects to a question, I'm sure he has

14 explained to you that you are still obligated to answer

15 the question unless he specifically directs you not to

16 answer. But if he does object, you should stop for a

17 minute so we can deal with it. It may be something we

18 can correct. If not, simply go ahead unless he directs

19 you not to answer.

20 If at any time during the deposition you

21 want to take a break, get a drink of water or cup of

22 coffee, let me know. We'll probably break for lunch

23 around noon or so since we're getting a little bit of a

24 late start. And if you decide you want a break earlier,

25 let me know. We'll try to find a convenient place to

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1 break.

2 Do you understand all that?

3 A Yes.

4 (Recio Exhibit 1(1-6) was marked

5 for identification by the reporter and is

6 included herewith.)

7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I'm showing you

8 what has been marked as Exhibit 1 for this deposition.

9 It's a copy of the Deposition Notice. Have you seen that

10 before, Mr. Recio?

11 A Yes.

12 Q Have you had a chance to go through the

13 document with regard to the particular documents it asked

14 for you to produce here today, starting on the bottom of

15 page 5 and going over to page 6?

16 A Yes. The documents, that's been provided to

17 you.

18 Q We'll get to the documents that you brought.

19 But have you had a chance to go through the -- what is

20 it? -- eight numbered paragraphs, starting on the bottom

21 of page 5 that specify what documents we were asking you

22 to bring?

23 A I have been looking through the ones that we

24 provided to you and more exactly if they coincide with

25 this or not.

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1 Q How did you go about finding documents that

2 met the requirements of the Notice, Hearing Notice of

3 this -- Deposition Notice. I'm sorry.

4 A By going over to the New Hope South farm

5 office and trying to get whatever documents were

6 requested over here.

7 Q Where are the offices of New Hope South

8 located where your records would have been?

9 A South Highway 27.

10 Q Okay. In what city?

11 A It is not any city. It's in the field.

12 Q Pardon me? In an unincorporated area? Who

13 actually maintains those records, maintains custody on a

14 day-to-day basis?

15 A Our manager.

16 MR. TARR: Manager.

17 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What's the

18 manager's name?

19 A Calixto Garcia.

20 Q Where is your office, sir?

21 A My office is located in Osceola Farms.

22 Q Do you have a formal position with Osceola

23 Farms?

24 A Yes.

25 Q What is your position with Osceola?

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1 A Vice-president.

2 Q In the designation filed by Peeples, Earl in

3 October of this past year, you were described as the

4 senior vice-president of New Hope South, Incorporated,

5 with an address in Palm Beach, Florida, a post office box

6 address, I guess, and addressed to Royal Poinciana Plaza.

7 Are you a senior vice-president of New Hope South, also?

8 A Yes.

9 Q So you're senior vice-president of New Hope

10 South and just vice-president at Osceola or --

11 A Just vice-president.

12 Q Do you hold at this time any other corporate

13 officer positions with any corporation or entity involved

14 in farming in the State of Florida?

15 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance of

16 the question.

17 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You can answer.

18 A Yes, I do.

19 Q What other corporations do you have a

20 position with at this time?

21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance.

22 You can respond.

23 THE WITNESS: I'm a senior vice-president of

24 Okeelanta Corporation.

25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okeelanta

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1 Corporation?

2 A Okeelanta.

3 Q Any others?

4 A I'm a vice-president of several

5 corporations.

6 Q What corporations are those?

7 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to

8 relevance.

9 THE WITNESS: New Hope Sugar Comany.

10 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What company?

11 A New Hope Sugar Company.

12 Q Okay.

13 A South Florida Industry.

14 Q That's "Industry"?

15 A Industry.

16 Q What is the business of that corporation?

17 A It's agriculture.

18 Q Within the EAA?

19 A Yes.

20 Q What type of agriculture is South Florida

21 Industry involved in?

22 MR. KOBELINSKI: Again, object to the

23 relevance.

24 Go ahead.

25 THE WITNESS: Primarily farming sugar

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BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 cane.

2 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Is that a wholly

3 owned subsidiary of any other company?

4 MR. KOBELINSKI: I'll object to the

5 relevance as to ownership of South Florida

6 Industry.

7 THE WITNESS: South Florida Industry is

8 owned by New Hope Sugar Co-op.

9 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: New Hope Sugar

10 Co-op? What's the relationship of New Hope Sugar Company

11 to New Hope South, Incorporated?

12 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance,

13 and it assumes a relevance that has not been

14 stated in the record.

15 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I don't know any

16 relationship between New Hope Sugar Company and

17 New Hope South.

18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Who were the other

19 directors of New Hope Sugar Company?

20 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the --

21 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I'm sorry. Who

22 were the other officers? Who's the director? the

23 president?

24 A Of New Hope Sugar Company?

25 Q Yes.

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BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance.

2 THE WITNESS: Alfonso Fanjul.

3 Q Is Alfonso Fanjul also the president of New

4 Hope?

5 A He's the --

6 Q Who's the president?

7 A Jose Fanjul.

8 Q Who is the president of South Florida

9 Industry?

10 MR. KOBELINSKI: Again, same objection as

11 to relevance.

12 THE WITNESS: It's the same person.

13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Alfonso or Jose?

14 A The president is Jose.

15 Q Who is the chairman?

16 A Alfonso.

17 Q You also said you were a vice-president of

18 Okeelanta Corporation. Who is the president?

19 A Jose Fanjul.

20 Q And who's chairman of the corporation?

21 A Alfonso Fanjul.

22 Q Are you an officer of any sort with Flo-Sun?

23 A Yes.

24 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance.

25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What's your

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BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 position with Flo-Sun?

2 A Vice-president.

3 Q Who is the president of Flo-Sun?

4 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance.

5 THE WITNESS: Jose Fanjul.

6 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Who is the

7 chairman?

8 A Alfonso Fanjul.

9 Q Is Flo-Sun a holding company?

10 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to the

11 relevance for these proceedings.

12 THE WITNESS: I really don't know how to

13 answer that question.

14 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: What are the

15 nature -- you're vice-president with Flo-Sun. What is

16 the nature of your duties with Flo-Sun --

17 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevancy.

18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: -- as

19 vice-president?

20 A My duties as a vice-president of Flo-Sun are

21 to oversee any farming operation related to Flo-Sun.

22 Q When you say oversee farming operations

23 related to Flo-Sun, does that mean you oversee the

24 farming operations of the series of company's we've just

25 identified that you are either a vice-president or senior

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BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 vice-president for?

2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance

3 and objection as to lack of foundation of the

4 question.

5 THE WITNESS: That's correct.

6 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. So you then

7 oversee the farming-operation side for New Hope Sugar

8 Co-op, South Florida Industry, New Hope Sugar Company,

9 Okeelanta Corporation and Osceola Farms? For all those?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Are there any other companies engaged in

12 farming activities in the EAA over which you exercise

13 oversight of the farming operations?

14 A No.

15 Q Okay. If I can, let's go through that list

16 again and ask how long you have been in your

17 vice-presidency position with each of those companies,

18 starting with Osceola Farms.

19 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to

20 relevance.

21 You can respond.

22 THE WITNESS: About fifteen years.

23 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. Okeelanta?

24 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to

25 relevance.

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BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Counsel, if you'd

2 like, I'll accept a standing objection on

3 relevance as to this line of questioning, just

4 for convenience.

5 MR. KOBELINSKI: That's fine.

6 THE WITNESS: Seven years.

7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you know who

8 held the position before you with Okeelanta, if it

9 existed?

10 A No, I don't.

11 Q How long have you been a vice-president for

12 New Hope Sugar Company?

13 A Over twenty years.

14 Q And how long for South Florida Industry?

15 A I don't remember exactly. Maybe eight

16 years.

17 Q And New Hope Sugar Co-op?

18 A Exactly, I don't remember. Seven, eight

19 years.

20 Q About the same amount of time you've been

21 with Okeelanta as a vice-president?

22 A No. A little bit longer.

23 Q Longer? You're listed as a senior

24 vice-president, for testimonial purposes, of New Hope

25 South, Incorporated. Is that the same as New Hope Sugar

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BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 Company?

2 A No.

3 Q Is that the same as New Hope Sugar Co-op?

4 A No.

5 Q How long have you been senior

6 vice-president -- vice-president with New Hope South,

7 Inc.?

8 A Four or five years.

9 Q Do you know who had the position before you,

10 if it existed before that?

11 A No.

12 Q Did the company exist longer ago than five

13 years?

14 A No.

15 Q So it's been in existence approximately five

16 years, then. Do you know if Okeelanta existed as a

17 corporation prior to your being a senior VP about

18 seven years ago?

19 A No.

20 Q It did not exist?

21 A I don't think so.

22 Q Same question with regard to New Hope Sugar

23 Co-op. You said you'd been there about eight years. Did

24 it exist prior to that?

25 A No.

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BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 Q Do any of the companies for which you

2 exercise agricultural-production oversight engage in any

3 other agricultural activities in the EAA other than the

4 growing of sugar cane?

5 A Yes.

6 Q What other agricultural activities? And

7 please tell me which company you're referring to, the

8 industries engaged in, or those various businesses.

9 MR. KOBELINSKI: I'll object to the

10 relevance of the question to the extent it goes

11 toward agricultural practices other than those of

12 New Hope South, Inc.

13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You can answer.

14 A We grow rice.

15 Q Which companies, when you say "we," are you

16 referring to?

17 A I'm talking about New Hope South.

18 Q New Hope South grows some rice. Do any of

19 the other agricultural enterprises you're involved in

20 grow rice?

21 A Yes.

22 Q All of them?

23 A Most of them.

24 Q Which ones -- it's probably easier, then, to

25 exclude. Which ones do not grow rice?

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BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE

 

 

 

1 A I by memory cannot answer that question.

2 Q Do any of those organizations have a mill or

3 processing facility for rice in the EAA?

4 A No.

5 Q The rice that is grown under your general

6 supervision for those companies, by whom is it processed?

7 A By --

8 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the

9 relevance of question to the extent it goes

10 beyond --

11 THE WITNESS: By Sem-Chi rice mill.

12 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: By Sem-Chi?

13 A S-e-m, dash, C-h-i.

14 Q Where is that located?

15 A It's located south off of old Highway 80,

16 the road that goes to Okeelanta Corporation.

17 Q Do you know by whom that's owned?

18 A By Okeelanta Corporation.

19 Q Through your senior vice-presidency with

20 Okeelanta, do you have any direct involvement in the

21 Sem-Chi mill?

22 A Yes.

23 Q What do you do with the Sem-Chi mill?

24 MR. KOBELINSKI: Again, object to the

25 legal relevance of these questions with regard to

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1 these proceedings.

2 THE WITNESS: I'm the vice-president.

3 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Who is the

4 president of -- are you a vice-president separately for

5 Sem-Chi? Is that a separate corporation?

6 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the extent it

7 calls for a legal conclusion.

8 THE WITNESS: Yes. I think it's a -- it's

9 a separate corporation.

10 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are you an officer

11 of that corporation, too, if you know?

12 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance.

13 THE WITNESS: Yes.

14 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Vice-president?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Who's the president?

17 A Jose Fanjul.

18 Q And the chairman is Alfonso --

19 A Right.

20 Q -- Fanjul?

21 Okay. Do all of the companies that you are

22 involved with in the agricultural industry in the EAA

23 send their rice -- those that grow rice -- to the Sem-Chi

24 mill?

25 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the extent

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1 it calls for --

2 THE WITNESS: That's correct.

3 MR. KOBELINSKI: -- information on

4 production of rice other than by New Hope South,

5 Inc.

6 (Recio Exhibit 2(1-3) was marked

7 for identification by the reporter and is

8 included herewith.)

9 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I have here,

10 Mr. Recio, what's been produced by you this morning.

11 It's been marked as Exhibit 2, and it appears to be a

12 brief sort of job-description statement and then a

13 curriculum vitae or biographical statement. If you

14 could, just take a look at this and tell me if that's

15 your current CV or biographical statement.

16 A Yes.

17 Q Mr. Recio, it states here that in addition

18 to being a senior vice-president, you are also a director

19 of Okeelanta Corporation; is that correct?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Are you also a director of Flo-Sun?

22 A That's correct.

23 Q With regard to the other agri-businesses in

24 the EAA that we've been discussing, in addition to being

25 vice-president of each of those organizations, are you

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1 the director of each of those as well?

2 A Yes, sir.

3 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance.

4 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: In addition to

5 being an officer and director of those approximately six

6 or seven corporate entities, do you have an ownership

7 interest in those entities?

8 A No.

9 Q Do you have an ownership interest in any of

10 those entities?

11 A No.

12 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance.

13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are you a salaried

14 employee of each of those entities?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And that's in your capacity as

17 vice-president?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Are you separately compensated for being a

20 director of those corporations?

21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance.

22 THE WITNESS: I directly were not being

23 compensated independently, but I know that my salary has

24 to be redistributed.

25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: So your salary

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1 that you receive as a vice-president includes everything

2 in terms of your work as a director as well?

3 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the --

4 THE WITNESS: Yes.

5 MR. KOBELINSKI: -- relevancy of the

6 question.

7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are any of those

8 companies publicly traded?

9 A No.

10 Q Do you hold stock in any of those companies?

11 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection. Asked and

12 answered and relevance.

13 THE WITNESS: Yes.

14 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Which companies do

15 you hold stock in?

16 A Flo-Sun.

17 Q Okay. Do you have stock options on Flo-Sun?

18 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance.

19 THE WITNESS: The stock I have are stock

20 options.

21 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Are any of the

22 companies we've been discussing with which you're

23 involved in agricultural business in the EAA not

24 currently producing sugar cane in the EAA?

25 A No.

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1 Q Can you recall if any of them are not

2 currently growing or producing rice in the EAA?

3 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form of

4 the question. It's stated as negative, and also

5 object to the relevance of the question.

6 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat your

7 question?

8 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You indicated

9 earlier that some of those companies that you conduct

10 agricultural oversight or production oversight in the EAA

11 for have produced or produce rice. What I'm trying to

12 find out, if you can help me out here, is: Are they all

13 currently producing rice, or have any perhaps stopped

14 being involved in the rice-growing business?

15 A That varies from year to year.

16 Q Is that dependent on the growth patterns of

17 the sugar cane, when and where your companies decide to

18 grow rice?

19 MR. KOBELINSKI: I'll object to the form

20 of the question to, number one, "your companies".

21 Number two, I'll object to the extent it calls

22 for information outside of that of the

23 agricultural practices of New Hope South, Inc.

24 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I'll rephrase.

25 Q When I say "your companies," I understand

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1 you don't own the companies, but the companies with which

2 you're associated is what I meant when I say "your

3 companies," the companies of which you're an officer or

4 director.

5 Does the decision by those companies to grow

6 rice in any given year -- is that tied or related to the

7 pattern of growth of sugar cane on the lands available to

8 those companies?

9 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to

10 relevance.

11 THE WITNESS: Rice is being grown by the

12 time the cane is rotated.

13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: So when a field is

14 left fallow from cane, the companies will occasionally or

15 as a practice grow rice in an off-year -- or off crop?

16 A Yes.

17 Q In your experience as the supervisor of

18 agricultural production for those companies, is that

19 always done? Do they always grow rice during the fallow

20 season between cane rotations?

21 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance.

22 Also object to the form of the question to extent

23 it encompasses all companies even though all are

24 not in.

25 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Just so maybe I can

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1 clarify this, would you explain how, as a fact

2 witness on agricultural practices, that could be

3 irrelevant when I'm asking him what their

4 agricultural practices are with regard to

5 rotating crops?

6 MR. KOBELINSKI: Again, my objection was

7 to the agricultural practices other than those of

8 New Hope South, Inc., as the Petitioner here.

9 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. If you can

10 answer, understand, my question is not restricted to New

11 Hope South, Inc. I'm talking about the six or eight

12 companies you're associated with.

13 A Not always are they rotated with rice.

14 Q Who makes the decision whether to plant in

15 the off-season, if you will, or at the rotation out of

16 sugar-cane growth rice in a particular field?

17 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form of

18 the question. It does not specify as to what

19 company or what fields are being referenced.

20 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Well, maybe I can

21 clarify it.

22 Q Mr. Recio, that type of decision, does that

23 fall within your area of responsibility for New Hope

24 South?

25 A It been discussed with me by the local

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1 managers.

2 Q The local manager for New Hope being

3 Calixto Garcia?

4 A Correct.

5 Q So he would discuss for you the lands under

6 the control of New Hope South, Incorporated, whether or

7 not to plant rice in any given year in a given field?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q Let me ask, what factors do you consider to

10 make that decision?

11 A Type of soil and conditions.

12 Q How much land has New Hope South had in

13 sugar cane production since it began seven years ago --

14 approximately seven years ago?

15 A It's about 27,000.

16 Q And all that land, is it within the EAA?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Do you know which drainage basins the land

19 is in?

20 A Primarily it drains to the north New River

21 Canal, and the other canal is, as I understand, the

22 Hillsboro Canal.

23 Q So the properties that are being farmed by

24 New Hope South are primarily towards the eastern side of

25 the EAA, southeastern EAA?

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1 A To the south.

2 Q Has New Hope South farmed essentially the

3 same 27,000 acres during its entire existence?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Is that land owned by New Hope South?

6 A Part.

7 Q Who owns the balance of the land?

8 A Okeelanta Corporation.

9 Q Does New Hope South lease that land to

10 Okeelanta Corporation?

11 A Yes, sir.

12 Q In any given year over the past eight

13 years -- seven to eight years that New Hope South has

14 been farming, how much of the 27,000 acres is devoted, in

15 any given year, to sugar cane?

16 A 80, 85 percent.

17 Q And the balance, the 15 to 20 percent that

18 is not in sugar cane in any given year, what crop, if

19 any, is it?

20 A That's where the rice is being grown.

21 Q Does New Hope South ever leave land entirely

22 fallow?

23 A Occasionally.

24 Q And for what purpose would you decide to

25 leave land fallow?

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1 A If it's not suitable for rice.

2 Q What type of soil do you need to grow rice

3 in the EAA?

4 A A level field with a good drainage and

5 irrigation area.

6 Q Are not a level field and good drainage and

7 irrigation required for sugar cane growth as well?

8 A No. That's more just the rice.

9 Q Is the rice more sensitive to water level or

10 water table level than sugar cane?

11 A That's correct.

12 Q Of the 15 to 20 percent of land controlled

13 by New Hope South, Inc., that would be fallow or not from

14 sugar cane in any given year, how much of that would be

15 truly fallow in no crop at all, no rice, just lying

16 there?

17 A It might change from year to year.

18 Q Is an effort made to minimize the amount of

19 land that just sits idle?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Because idle land is producing no return to

22 the company -- is that correct? -- if there's no crop on

23 it?

24 A Yes.

25 Q In your decision in consultation with

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1 Mr. Garcia as to whether or not to plant rice on a given

2 property in a year when it's not planted in cane, do you

3 consider the market conditions, market prices for rice?

4 A No.

5 Q Do you take into account in any way the cost

6 of producing that crop before you make the decision to

7 plant a particular field in rice?

8 A Not exactly.

9 Q Why not?

10 A Rice has been produced in rotation with cane

11 not as much for a profit. It's a good agricultural

12 practice to improve the condition of the land.

13 Q What does growing rice in former sugar cane

14 land do for the land?

15 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form of the

16 question to the extent it refers to "former sugar

17 cane land."

18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You stated in your

19 testimony previously, if I understood it correctly, that

20 you would be growing rice out of -- during a rotational

21 period when the particular field was not planted in sugar

22 cane, and you have said that you do that as a farming

23 practice that is good for the land.

24 What is it that the rice crop does for the

25 land during the periods the land is not planted in sugar

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1 cane?

2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form of the

3 question to the extent it paraphrased an

4 incomplete summary of what his prior testimony

5 is.

6 You can answer.

7 THE WITNESS: By growing rice you have to

8 level your fields. You have to keep the cover

9 crop like the rice, and then the rice will be

10 going back to the land, the fiber of the rice.

11 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Does that act as a

12 natural fertilizer for subsequent crops of sugar cane?

13 A It improve the physical condition of the

14 soil.

15 Q "By physical condition," do you mean it

16 aerates the soil, or it breaks it up? What precisely

17 does it mean?

18 A By adding fiber, you make it more fluffy and

19 better condition.

20 Q How do you level the field after sugar cane

21 has been planted in order for it to be level enough for

22 rice?

23 A By a lot of leveling devices operated by

24 laser beam.

25 Q Does New Hope South maintain its own

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1 equipment to do that?

2 A Yes, sir.

3 Q Is that New Hope South equipment for -- is

4 it equipment that is common to the six to eight companies

5 that you do agricultural oversight for?

6 A It's owned by New Hope South.

7 Q Do each of the companies that you provide

8 agricultural oversight for do the same type of thing with

9 regard to planting rice?

10 A Yes, sir.

11 Q Does each have its own leveling equipment?

12 A Yes, sir.

13 Q Do you level every time you're going to

14 plant rice?

15 A Yes, sir.

16 Q Without exception?

17 A Yes, sir.

18 Q Does a crop of sugar cane and its several

19 ratoons -- that's r-a-t-o-o-n, ratoons -- affect the

20 level of the field such that you must do it every time to

21 successfully cultivate rice?

22 A To successfully cultivate rice, you need to

23 have a perfect leveling.

24 Q Do you flood the fields that you're going to

25 plant in rice prior to the planting?

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1 A No.

2 Q On the small percentage of fields that New

3 Hope South allows to lay fallow and not plant in rice

4 during a rotation out of sugar cane, do you flood its

5 fields?

6 A If it's allowed by the South Florida Water

7 Management District.

8 Q What's the purpose of flooding the field?

9 A To better control the soil's insects.

10 Q How long do you flood the field for in order

11 to control the insects in the soil?

12 A For as long as you can.

13 Q Is there any outside limit practically, from

14 a farming standpoint, or can you leave it flooded until

15 you're ready to plant it again?

16 A As close as you can be able to plant your

17 next crop.

18 Q Okay. In your experience, is rainfall

19 sufficient to maintain the flooded condition of the

20 field?

21 A In certain years, yes.

22 Q How about in an average rainfall year in the

23 EAA?

24 A No. You have to depend on the flood and

25 pump the water in.

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1 Q You draw water from the primary canals of

2 the South Florida Water Management District?

3 A We draw waters from waters primarily in the

4 farm before we actually draw waters from the primary

5 canals.

6 Q Does New Hope South, Inc.'s farms -- the

7 fields that you actually cultivate, are they contiguous,

8 if you understand what I mean? Are they all --

9 A Let me ask you a question.

10 Q Sure.

11 A Are you referring to rice, or are you

12 referring to cane?

13 Q I'm referring to all the land now, rice and

14 cane. Are they contiguous such that you can move water

15 from a cane field to a rice field and back and through

16 your field ditches and drainage ditches?

17 A In the case of New Hope South, yes.

18 Q So New Hope South land is contiguous

19 hydrologically, in terms of --

20 A Two separate units.

21 Q Are they connected by canals?

22 A The two units, no.

23 Q Do you grow rice in both units?

24 A Yes.

25 Q When you say you try and move water around

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1 internally first to maintain flooded condition of a

2 field, can you move rice -- I'm sorry. Can you move

3 water between those two units?

4 A No.

5 Q Or only between units?

6 A No.

7 Q Other companies or enterprises farm the

8 lands between the two units?

9 A We are divided by north New River Canal and

10 27.

11 Q So you're across the canal and across the

12 highway; so that's why you can't move --

13 A Yes.

14 Q In a dry year, when you are irrigating

15 instead of pumping, where do you acquire your irrigation

16 water for pumping?

17 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form of

18 question. It lacks definition of "dry year."

19 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you know what I

20 mean by "dry year"?

21 A We always draw water from South Florida

22 Water Management District when it's a dry year and when

23 it's allowed.

24 Q When would it be?

25 A When is it allowed?

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1 Q Yes.

2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the extent --

3 THE WITNESS: South Florida Water

4 Management exercises control over the irrigation

5 water, and it allows you to draw water or not to

6 draw water.

7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you deal with

8 the South Florida Water Management District on those

9 issues, on water-availability issues?

10 A No. That's general orders by South Florida

11 Water Management District.

12 Q So if they impose water restrictions or use

13 restrictions, you would not be able to draw irrigation

14 water necessarily from their canals?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Okay. Do you recall that happening in the

17 time that you've been overseeing agricultural production

18 in the EAA?

19 A One or two times.

20 Q Do you remember, how long ago was the last?

21 A No.

22 Q In a year of average rainfall, do you know

23 what the -- as oversight for agricultural operations and

24 production, do you know what an average rainfall is in

25 the EAA?

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1 A Around 50 to 60 inches a year.

2 Q In a year of average rainfall, does New Hope

3 South still draw irrigation water from the canals?

4 A Occasionally.

5 Q Let's see. With regard to some of the

6 companies, you've been out there for about eighteen to

7 twenty years. So would I be correct in saying you've

8 seen some very wet years as well?

9 A Yes.

10 Q In very wet years, because of the timing of

11 the rainfall, would you still have drawn or would you

12 still expect to draw water to support your agricultural

13 operations from the primary canals of the district?

14 A Yes, but not at the time of the rain.

15 Q What type of muck are the two parcels or two

16 areas, units, farmed by New Hope South composed of, the

17 soil composition?

18 A It's a muck.

19 Q Do you know which type of muck?

20 A It's Okeelanta and Ceiro (phonetic).

21 Q Do you know the average muck depth in the

22 two areas?

23 A It varies.

24 Q Is that indicated anywhere in the documents

25 that you're producing this morning?

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1 A No.

2 Q It just says "muck." When did you first

3 begin your association with the Everglades Agricultural

4 Area?

5 A 1962.

6 Q And how did your association with the EAA

7 come about in 1962?

8 A I start working on the farm.

9 Q What had you done before that, prior to

10 1962?

11 A I was in Cuba.

12 Q I thought that date rang a familiar note.

13 You received a Master of Science degree in agricultural

14 engineering from the University of Havana in 1947?

15 A That's correct.

16 Q Did you, in the course of your studies for

17 the Master's, concentrate on any particular area of

18 agricultural engineering?

19 A No.

20 Q Can you describe for me the course of

21 instruction at that time for a Master's of Science in

22 agricultural engineering, what exactly that entailed?

23 A Let me qualify the Master degree. That's a

24 translation to the equivalent of the American studies.

25 In our case, you cannot get a Bachelor's and a Master's

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1 in a separate way. You have to take five-year courses,

2 and at the end, it was a title being given of

3 agricultural engineer.

4 Q So that's a five-year course of instruction

5 that you took?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And what type of courses were you required

8 to take in order to achieve that degree?

9 A A lot of courses of going from basically

10 chemistry, physics, mathematics, and botany and going

11 over to specific courses in soil chemistry.

12 Q Did your courses in soil chemistry include

13 study in augmenting or enhancing soil quality for

14 agricultural purposes?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Did you study fertilization for crop

17 enhancement?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Did you have any courses at that time

20 specifically addressed to the cultivation or processing

21 of sugar cane?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And did you have any courses addressing the

24 production or processing of rice crops?

25 A Yes.

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1 Q Both rice and sugar cane were major crops in

2 Cuba at the time you received your degree, were they not?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Sugar cane more than rice?

5 A Yes.

6 Q After completing your course of study in

7 1947, how did you put your degree to practical use? What

8 did you do after that?

9 A I went to manage the family business

10 enterprise that was primarily a cattle farm.

11 Q Were you engaged at all in agricultural

12 operations other than the raising of cattle?

13 A No.

14 Q You indicate on your resume that you were

15 also working as an independent consultant for the cattle

16 ranches in Camaguey and Oriente in Cuba, the Provinces.

17 At that time had you any association with the Fanjul

18 farming interest --

19 A No.

20 Q -- in Cuba?

21 (Whereupon Mr. Tarr left the deposition

22 proceedings.)

23 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. Your resume

24 indicates from 1952 to approximately 1959 you were an

25 agricultural agent in the Province of Camaguey for the

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1 Cuban government's Department of Agriculture. What was

2 the nature of your duties in that position?

3 A Similar to the county agent over here.

4 Q Okay. The county agent program in the

5 United States or in Florida -- as I understand it, they

6 provide advice and guidance to farm interests in their

7 area.

8 A That's correct.

9 Q So that's essentially what you were doing?

10 A Essentially.

11 Q What type of farm interests were you

12 providing to and guidance to in the Camaguey Province

13 during those seven years?

14 A It varies for different type of crop or

15 whatever the farmers need assistance to.

16 Q Were any of the farmers that you assisted

17 producing sugar cane?

18 A Yes.

19 Q How about rice?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Do you recall what type of advice or

22 guidance, if any, you were providing with regard to sugar

23 cane and rice during those years?

24 A The type to be using.

25 Q Did you give advice and guidance on the

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1 issue of fertilizing sugar cane crops?

2 A Whatever they need.

3 Q Is the same true with regard to rice crops?

4 A That's right.

5 Q As part of your training for your degree and

6 your experience up through 1959 in Cuba, do you feel that

7 you have a detailed understanding of the requirements for

8 successfully growing rice and sugar?

9 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form to the

10 extent you're referencing a geographic area.

11 You can respond.

12 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat your

13 question?

14 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: During that

15 seven-year period and the five years of your degree

16 program before that -- I guess that actually skips the

17 few years that you were self-employed -- do you feel that

18 you gained a detailed understanding of what agricultural

19 conditions were required and what agricultural practices

20 were required in order to successfully produce sugar cane

21 and rice in Cuba -- I said in Cuba earlier -- during that

22 period of time?

23 A What do you mean "detailed"?

24 Q By "detailed," I mean the soil-chemistry

25 conditions, the growth periods, seed-selection criteria,

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1 irrigation practices, cultivation-harvesting practices,

2 basically up through harvesting, not looking at

3 processing at the moment.

4 A Yes.

5 Q Did you also deal with the processing after

6 cultivation and harvesting of the crops?

7 (Interruption.)

8 (Whereupon Mr. Tarr entered the deposition

9 proceedings.)

10 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I guess the

11 pending question is: Do you or did you have any

12 involvement during your periods as an agricultural agent

13 for the Department of Agriculture in Camaguey any issues

14 related to post-harvest processing of sugar cane or rice?

15 A No.

16 Q So your work was all pre-harvest --

17 A Correct.

18 Q -- or up to harvest, I guess?

19 A Correct.

20 Q And in Camaguey at that time, was any of the

21 sugar cane harvested mechanically?

22 A No.

23 Q How was the rice harvested?

24 A Mechanically.

25 Q Is rice harvested in the EAA mechanically?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q Is rice harvested anywhere in the United

3 States by hand? Probably not.

4 A I don't think so.

5 Q I think only in Southeast Asia, probably.

6 Your course of instruction, your Master's, did that

7 include courses in processing of agricultural products

8 after harvesting?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Did any of those directly relate to the

11 processing of sugar cane after harvest?

12 A Yes.

13 Q How about rice?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Up through 1959 in Cuba, had you had any

16 involvement at any time in the processing of those

17 products after harvest?

18 A No.

19 Q What was the Point IV Program to establish a

20 pasture experimental station that you reference in your

21 resume?

22 A The American -- he will give help to the

23 Latin American countries by which those countries would

24 open another door to improve the agriculture in general,

25 and they provide that open door in the form of equipment

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1 and technicians.

2 Q Where was the pasture experimental station

3 that you were involved in?

4 A In Camaguey.

5 Q Did that deal with specific crops or types

6 of agriculture?

7 A It specifically was for pasture.

8 Q So it was in cattle?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And then there came a time in 1962 when you

11 relocated to the United States?

12 A In 1962.

13 Q And you more or less were immediately

14 employed by New Hope Sugar Company?

15 A Yes.

16 Q That was the first company within the EAA

17 that you became associated with after coming to the

18 United States?

19 A Yes, sir.

20 Q Who hired you for your work with that

21 company?

22 A Alfonso Fanjul.

23 Q What were your initial duties with New Hope

24 Sugar?

25 A I was a foreman.

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1 Q Was that field work, essentially field

2 supervision?

3 A Primarily field supervision.

4 Q How long were you in that position?

5 A Year and a half.

6 Q As a field supervisor, what was the actual

7 nature of your duties on a day-to-day basis? What did

8 you do for them?

9 A All was related to the agriculture.

10 Q At that time was that strictly with regard

11 to growing sugar cane?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Were they growing rice at that time as well?

14 A No.

15 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form of

16 "they."

17 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: I'm referring to

18 the company, New Hope Sugar Company. I guess

19 you're right. We need to be fairly specific. A

20 lot of these names are fairly similar.

21 Q There's a New Hope Sugar Company, a New Hope

22 Sugar Co-op, and a New Hope South -- correct? --

23 A Correct.

24 Q -- all three different companies?

25 In 1964 you became general manager of New

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1 Hope Sugar Company?

2 A That's correct.

3 Q How did your duties change in 1964 to the

4 present? Your resume, on the second page, indicates that

5 you were still general manager of New Hope Sugar Company;

6 is that correct?

7 A No.

8 Q Okay. You're a vice-president of New Hope

9 Sugar Company now; correct?

10 A Correct.

11 Q Who is the general manager now of New Hope

12 Sugar Company?

13 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance.

14 THE WITNESS: I don't think the Sugar

15 Company have a general manager now.

16 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Is it your

17 understanding the job is vacant, or they've reorganized,

18 and that job doesn't exist anymore?

19 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the relevance.

20 THE WITNESS: New Hope Sugar Company is

21 part of the New Hope Sugar Co-op, and the Sugar

22 Farms Co-op is the one that do the farming for

23 New Hope Sugar Company.

24 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Okay. I should

25 make a flow chart. The Sugar Co-op does the farming for

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1 New Hope Sugar Company?

2 A Let me clarify. The Sugar Farms Co-op --

3 Q Sugar Farms Co-op -- New Hope Sugar Company

4 of which you're vice-president has a business arrangement

5 with New Hope Sugar Farms Co-op for the farm's co-op to

6 do the actual farming?

7 A With Sugar Farms Co-op, not New Hope Sugar;

8 Sugar Farms.

9 Q No "co-op"?

10 A "Sugar," not "New Hope Farms Co-op."

11 Q So there are not three New Hope businesses?

12 There's two? There's New Hope South, and there is New

13 Hope Sugar Company, and then there's the Sugar Farms

14 Co-op, which does not have "New Hope South" in front of

15 it?

16 A No.

17 Q That's right?

18 A Can you repeat that again?

19 Q When we first started out, you said that

20 you've been with New Hope Sugar Company for 20 years or

21 so, which seems to match what's on your resume. That

22 still exists, and you're a vice-president of that

23 company?

24 A Yes.

25 Q You also mentioned a New Hope Sugar Co-op,

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1 but if I understand you now, that's not a correct name?

2 A No. There is existing a New Hope Sugar

3 Co-op and also a Sugar Farms Co-op.

4 Q So there's both?

5 A There are two, two.

6 Q For whom does the Sugar Farms Co-op grow

7 sugar cane?

8 A For several companies.

9 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the

10 relevance.

11 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Which companies?

12 A New Hope Sugar Company; New Farm, Inc.;

13 South Florida Industry.

14 Q They do that under contract on leased lands?

15 A No. It's a cooperative management.

16 Q Is Sugar Farms Co-op currently growing sugar

17 cane for New Hope South?

18 A No.

19 Q Is it currently growing rice for New Hope

20 South?

21 A No.

22 Q Does it ever grow rice?

23 A The Sugar Farms Co-op grow rice.

24 Q It does? For whom does Sugar Farms Co-op

25 grow the rice?

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1 A For any one of the farms.

2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Its irrelevant.

3 THE WITNESS: For any one of the farms

4 they farm for.

5 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How is it

6 determined which of the farms the Sugar Farms Co-op is

7 growing the crop for? Is that done by field, whoever

8 controls the field?

9 MR. KOBELINSKI: Object to the form of the

10 question.

11 THE WITNESS: I really don't understand

12 exactly your question, what you are aiming to.

13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: In a given crop

14 year, does Sugar Farms Co-op grow crops for more than one

15 company?

16 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the

17 relevance of the question.

18 THE WITNESS: Every year the Sugar Farms

19 Co-op do the farming operation for several of the

20 companies that always do that same thing.

21 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How do you figure

22 out or how can you tell which company a particular field

23 is being grown for if Sugar Farms Co-op is growing on 50

24 or 100 fields for several different companies? How do

25 you know which product from a particular field belongs or

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1 is for the benefit of New Hope South or South Florida

2 Industries or New Farm, Incorporated? How do you tell

3 which one is which?

4 A They know which one's fields are each

5 company.

6 Q Is it because the field is owned by one of

7 those other companies?

8 A Owned or leased.

9 Q Or leased. So it has to do with who

10 controls the field literally --

11 A Correct.

12 Q -- or whose field it is to farm?

13 And they subcontract, if you will, or have

14 the co-op come in, the farm's co-op, and actually do the

15 work for them?

16 A Correct.

17 Q And none of that work of Sugar Farms Co-op

18 is currently being done for New Hope South?

19 A No.

20 Q New Hope South has been in existence about

21 seven or eight years. Has Sugar Farms Co-op ever farmed

22 for New Hope South?

23 A No.

24 Q New Hope South always farms for itself?

25 A Correct.

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1 Q Under the management or general management

2 direction of Calixto Garcia?

3 A Correct.

4 MR. KOBELINSKI: Would this be a good spot

5 for a break?

6 MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Sure.

7 (Recess.)

8 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Mr. Recio, your

9 resume also lists, from 1975 to the present, that you

10 were general manager for Osceola Farms; is that correct?

11 Are you the general manager there as well as

12 vice-president?

13 A No, no. This is an old resume.

14 Q I just wanted to kind of update it by asking

15 these questions so we're clear. With regard to the third

16 page, if you want to follow along, it indicates 1969 to

17 present, vice-president of New Hope Sugar Company. That

18 is still correct?

19 A Correct.

20 Q And 1969 to present, vice-president of

21 Florida Atlantic Land Corporation; is that correct?

22 A Yes, sir.

23 Q What is Florida Atlantic Land Corporation?

24 A It's a landowner.

25 Q Who's the president of Florida Atlantic Land

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1 Corporation?

2 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the relevance.

3 THE WITNESS: Alfonso -- Jose Fanjul.

4 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: And Alfonso Fanjul

5 is the chairman?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Are you a director of the Florida Atlantic

8 Land Corporation as well as an officer?

9 A Yes.

10 Q I don't think we listed that earlier. If we

11 did, I missed it. Does it engage itself in any farming

12 within the EAA?

13 A Yes.

14 Q What type of farming activities does Florida

15 Atlantic Land Corporation engage in?

16 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance.

17 THE WITNESS: Primarily sugar cane.

18 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How much land does

19 Florida Atlantic farm in the EAA?

20 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to

21 relevance.

22 THE WITNESS: I don't remember.

23 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: How about New Hope

24 Sugar Corporation? Is its land separate from New Hope

25 South's land?

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1 A Yes.

2 Q How much land does New Hope Sugar

3 Corporation farm in the EAA?

4 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection as to relevance.

5 THE WITNESS: I don't remember exactly.

6 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Do you remember,

7 approximately, with regard to any of the corporations for

8 which you are the agricultural production overseer other

9 than New Hope South, which you already told us was about

10 27,000 acres, how much land each farms?

11 A No. I cannot say that.

12 Q How about collectively? Overall in the EAA,

13 how much land are you the production overseer for?

14 A I hate to give you a number that might not

15 be correct.

16 Q I understand it would only be your best

17 estimate. I don't expect you to be down to the acre. It

18 probably changes occasionally. Can you give me an

19 estimation by percentage of sugar cane land in the EAA or

20 by just total acreage, approximately?

21 A Percentage of what?

22 Q Well, would you agree that this past harvest

23 season about 429,000 acres in the EAA were planted in

24 sugar cane and harvested? Does that sound about right?

25 A I don't know. I haven't checked the

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1 figures. For old Everglades Agricultural Area on a

2 percentage, I don't know.

3 Q Would it be more than half?

4 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form.

5 Would what be more than half?

6 THE WITNESS: A lot less, I guess.

7 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: A little less?

8 A A lot less.

9 Q Less than a quarter? Less than 100,000

10 acres?

11 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to

12 form. It's unspecified as to what is being

13 referred to.

14 THE WITNESS: Yes.

15 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Let me be sure I

16 understand. You're telling me that Okeelanta, New Hope

17 Sugar, South Florida Industry, New Hope South, Sugar

18 Farms Co-op, Florida Atlantic Land Corporation, and

19 Osceola Farms -- together -- total less than 100,000

20 acres of farmland in the EAA?

21 A By memory --

22 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the form.

23 THE WITNESS: By memory, I cannot answer

24 that question.

25 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: You said that

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1 Mr. Garcia consults with you in making decisions on what

2 to plant for Osceola Farms; is that correct?

3 A No.

4 Q He doesn't?

5 A He does it for New Hope South.

6 Q I'm sorry. I have him -- he's with New Hope

7 South. Do each of those companies that I just mentioned

8 by name have a manager who does the same thing as

9 Mr. Garcia does for New Hope South?

10 MR. KOBELINSKI: Objection to the

11 relevance of the question.

12 THE WITNESS: Not exactly.

13 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Who makes the

14 decisions for the other companies as to what they will

15 plant -- what they will plant in rice, what they will

16 leave fallow -- in any given year?

17 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to

18 relevance.

19 THE WITNESS: The New Hope Sugar -- excuse

20 me. The Sugar Farms Co-op do the decision for

21 the farms that they do farming for.

22 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Sugar Farms Co-op

23 makes the decisions, then, for New Hope Sugar?

24 A Yes.

25 Q For South Florida Industries?

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1 MR. KOBELINSKI: Same objection as to

2 relevance.

3 THE WITNESS: Yes.

4 Q BY MR. WATTS-FITZGERALD: Which or what

5 other companies does Sugar Farmers Co-op -- Sugar Farms

6 Co-op also far