DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 289 MS. PONZOLI: ALL RIGHT. READY? WITNESS: YES. EXAMINATION BY MS. PONZOLI CONTINUES: Q. OKAY, YOU'VE MADE SEVERAL REFERENCES TO THE DOSING STUDY OF THE PARK, DR. QUALLS. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT TO HAVE BEEN DESIGNED TO DETERMINE A THRESHOLD OF TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IN THE WATER COLUMN ABOVE WHICH CHANGES IN THE FLORA AND FAUNA WOULD OCCUR? A. I WOULD -- I'M NOT QUITE SURE. BUT I KIND OF MORE UNDERSTOOD IT AS A STUDY MEANT TO DETERMINE WHETHER PHOSPHORUS WAS OR WASN'T, AND NOT SPECIFICALLY A CERTAIN THRESHOLD. Q. IS YOUR DOSING STUDY DESIGNED TO DETERMINE AN ACTUAL THRESHOLD AT WHICH THERE ARE CHANGES? A. YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. WHY DO YOU GO SO HIGH? A. OH, SO HIGH, UP TO ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY? Q. YES. UH-HUH (YES). A. JUST IN CASE WE WANT TO SEE WHAT REALLY A WHOLE LOT OF PHOSPHORUS WOULD DO. JUST IN CASE WE DON'T SEE ANYTHING AT LOWER LEVELS, WE WANT TO KNOW AT LEAST AT SOME LEVEL IS PHOSPHORUS EVER DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 290 LIMITING. AND, NUMBER TWO, BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN CONCENTRATIONS OF ORTHOPHOSPHATE AS HIGH AS A HUNDRED AND FIFTY MICROGRAMS PER LITER REPORTED IN THE CANALS THEMSELVES, BASED ON SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT DATA. Q. WHAT IF THE -- WHAT IF THE THRESHOLD IS BELOW THE THIRTY THAT YOU HAVE AS YOUR LOWEST EDITION? A. THEN, IF IT'S BELOW THE THIRTY, THEN WE WOULD SEE CHANGES IN ALL OUR TREATMENTS, AND WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SAY WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN, SAY, ZERO AND THIRTY--- Q. AND YOU'D--- A. ---RIGHT. AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, IF THE THRESHOLD--- Q. ---YOU'D HAVE TO START ALL OVER? A. ---IF THE THRESHOLD IS TEN, WE WOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO SAY THAT IT'S UNDER THIRTY. BUT THE REASON WE DECIDED ON THIRTY, WAS BECAUSE AT THE TIME WE ORIGINALLY DESIGNED THE STUDY, THE PROPOSED STANDARD, I BELIEVE IN ONE OF THE EARLIER DRAFTS OF THE SWIM PLAN, WAS THIRTY MICROGRAMS PER LITER. AND THEN I THINK SINCE THEN IT'S BEEN CHANGED TO SOMETHING A LITTLE HIGHER THAN THAT, THE PROPOSED STANDARD. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 291 Q. I'D LIKE TO TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR "GEOCHEMISTRY OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS IN THE EVERGLADES OF FLORIDA." I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE WERE BEFORE WE BROKE. IS THAT RIGHT? A. UH-HUH (YES). MR. McCAUGHAN: IS THAT IN -- IT'S NOT IN HERE. IT'S NOT. WITNESS: NO, THAT'S NOT IN THERE. OH, WELL, IT IS, IN THE SENSE IT'S A -- IT'S BITS AND PIECES LIFTED FROM CHAPTER SIX, BASICALLY. Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) OKAY. YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT A FEW STATEMENTS YOU MAKE, AND I UNDERSTAND YOU'VE TOLD US THAT THIS IS A SKELETAL DRAFT, SO IF YOU THINK THESE STATEMENTS ARE -- WHATEVER YOU THINK THEY ARE, IT IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO TELL ME. ALL RIGHT? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. I MEAN, WE HAVEN'T -- THAT'S FAIR? A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER IN THIS -- IN THIS DRAFT PAPER? A. UH-HUH (YES). DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 292 Q. ALL RIGHT. AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FIRST PAGE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SWIM PLAN AS "MANDATE IMPROVEMENT IN WATER QUALITY AND THESE PROPOSED STANDARDS ARE EXPRESSED AS TOTAL PHOSPHORUS AND TOTAL NITROGEN." A. RIGHT. Q. "OUR PREVIOUS RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN TO THIRTY-TWO PERCENT OF THE TOTAL PHOSPHORUS, AND OVER NINETY-FIVE PERCENT OF THE TOTAL NITROGEN IS IN THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC FORM IN SURFACE WATER." DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THESE NUMBERS ARE STILL ACCURATE, BASED ON THE WORK THAT YOU'RE PRESENTLY DOING? A. BASED ON THE WORK THAT I'M PRESENTLY DOING -- I THINK WHERE I HAD GOTTEN THOSE -- THOSE NUMBERS FROM, IS PROBABLY FROM SOMEWHERE IN -- ALONG THE GRADIENT STUDY. IN OTHER WORDS, IT SEEMS LIKE I PROBABLY LOOKED AT THESE PIE DIAGRAMS. LET'S SEE IF THAT JIBES. Q. WHERE WERE THE PIES, AGAIN? MR. McCAUGHAN: 268? A. OH, PAGE 230. YEAH, IT SAYS "OUR PREVIOUS RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN TO AROUND THIRTY-TWO PERCENT OF THE TOTAL PHOSPHORUS DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 293 IS IN THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC FORM IN SURFACE WATER," AND IF YOU'LL LOOK AT--- Q. SO, YOU'RE SAYING SIXTY-EIGHT TO EIGHTY-NINE PERCENT, ROUGHLY, WOULD BE AN INORGANIC. IS THAT WHAT IT MEANS? A. OH, NO, BECAUSE THERE'S ALSO SUSPENDED PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS. Q. OH, OKAY. A. THAT'S STRICTLY TALKING ABOUT THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC FORM. Q. OKAY. BUT DO YOU THINK THOSE NUMBERS ARE RIGHT, BASED ON YOUR PIES? A. YEAH, WHAT I GOT THAT FROM IS IF YOU'LL LOOK AT THE PIE IN THE LOWER RIGHT-HAND CORNER, THAT PROBABLY REPRESENTS THE HIGH PERCENTAGE THERE, WHICH IS ABOUT THIRTY-THREE PERCENT, IS IN THE FORM OF DISSOLVED, ORGANIC PHOSPHORUS. AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE ONE IN THE UPPER -- UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER, THAT'S APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN PERCENT THERE IN THE HIGH NUTRIENT INPUT PLOTS, WITH THE GATES OPEN. THAT'S APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN PERCENT. Q. OKAY. TURNING TO RESULTS AND DISCUSSION UNDER "DISTRIBUTION OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS IN DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 294 WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A," SECOND FULL PARAGRAPH OF YOUR DRAFT PAPER. I DON'T THINK THESE PAGES ARE NUMBERED. A. OH, RESULTS AND DISCUSSIONS, SORRY. YEAH, OKAY. YEAH, PHYSICALLY, I THINK THAT'S PAGE NUMBER FOUR. THEY'RE NOT NUMBERED, UNFORTUNATELY. Q. OKAY. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, "DISSOLVED ORGANIC CARBON AND NITROGEN DECREASE WITH DISTANCE ALONG THE NUTRIENT GRADIENT AT WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A BOTH IN SURFACE AND SOIL PORE WATER." A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. "THE CONCENTRATIONS IN SOIL PORE WATER TEND TO BE ONE POINT FIVE TO TWO TIMES THOSE IN THE SURFACE WATER." A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. I -- WHAT MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT THIS IS BASED ON DATA COLLECTED WHERE? A. ALONG THE GRADIENT STUDY. Q. OKAY. ANY IN 3A OR 2B? A. NO. Q. OKAY. SO, THIS IS THE SAME DATA THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT? A. THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH, THE DATA THAT APPEARS IN CHAPTER SIX, IN FIGURES 6-20, 6-21, AND 6-22. AND DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 295 THOSE ARE PLOTS OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC CARBON AND DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN, AS A FUNCTION OF DISTANCE ALONG THE GRADIENT IN WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A. (THEREUPON MS. PONZOLI AND MR. JONES CONFER.) Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) ALL RIGHT. I'D LIKE YOU TO TURN BACK TO THE "BIODEGRADABILITY OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER." A. OKAY. Q. IT'S JUST ABOUT THREE PAGES FROM THE END. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT "APPLICATION--DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS?" A. YEAH. Q. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU'RE SORT OF LIKE HALFWAY DOWN THE PARAGRAPH, YOU'RE SAYING "SUNLIGHT DEGRADES THE FRACTION, WHICH IS THE ONE WHICH IS MOST RESISTANT, PERHAPS INHIBITORY, TO MICROBIAL DEGRADATION." A. YES, AND THAT IS TALKING ABOUT THE HUMIC ACID FRACTION. Q. OKAY. NEXT, YOU SAY, "IN TERMS OF THE EUTROPHICATION IN THE EVERGLADES, IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED DESIRABLE IF THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 296 NUTRIENTS WERE NOT MINERALIZED AT ALL AND SIMPLY FLOWED THROUGH THE SYSTEM." I THINK THAT SAME SENTENCE APPEARS IN CHAPTER SIX, DOESN'T IT? A. YES, IT IS. THAT -- IN FACT, IT'S JUST BASICALLY CUT AND PASTED FROM CHAPTER SIX. Q. OKAY. A. YEAH. Q. OKAY. WITHOUT LOOKING FOR IT THERE, LET'S JUST DEAL WITH IT HERE. DO YOU THINK THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS? IS THIS THE WAY YOU BELIEVE IT HAPPENS? A. OH, NO, I THINK THAT THERE IS SOME MINERALIZATION OF THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS. I WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO SET UP, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD BE A DESIRABLE SITUATION, WHAT ROLE WOULD THESE DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS PLAY IF THEY WERE OR WERE NOT AVAILABLE. AND SINCE WHAT WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT HERE IS EUTROPHICATION, THEN IT WOULD BE BETTER IF THEY SIMPLY FLOWED THROUGH THE SYSTEM AND WENT OUT THROUGH THE CANALS TO THE OCEANS, WITHOUT EVER HAVING BEEN MINERALIZED. Q. IT WOULDN'T BE BETTER FOR FLORIDA BAY, WOULD IT? A. NO, I GUESS IT WOULDN'T, AS LONG AS IT -- ASSUMING IT WAS NOT MINERALIZED THERE, RIGHT. BUT MOST OF THE WATER ACTUALLY GOES OUT THE OCEAN CANALS, I DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 297 THINK, YOU KNOW. Q. WELL, THAT'S A PROBLEM, TOO, BUT WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH THAT ONE HERE. A. RIGHT, YEAH. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE MOVING RIGHT ALONG HERE. I'D LIKE TO TURN TO WHAT I BELIEVE IS REALLY YOUR CHAPTER NINE. I HAVE IT IN A DRAFT FORM, AND I DEALT WITH IT -- OR NOT A DRAFT FORM, I THINK IT'S ALMOST AN IDENTICAL FORM -- BUT IT'S FROM YOUR MINI-PAPER ON YOUR DISK NUMBER 24. IT IS FOR MOST PURPOSES CHAPTER NINE, FOR THOSE AT THE TABLE WHO DON'T HAVE IT. YOU SHOULD -- YOU SHOULD DEAL WITH THE PAPER WITH ME. I THINK IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR YOU AND ME TO TALK ABOUT THE PAPER. MR. GREEN: IS THAT A MINI-PAPER? MS. PONZOLI: NUMBER 24. (THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED BY THE COURT REPORTER.) Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) CAN YOU FIND IT? A. RIGHT, I'VE GOT IT. Q. OH, ALL RIGHT, GOOD. ALL RIGHT. IN YOUR SECOND PARAGRAPH, YOU SAY, "IN AEROBIC ENVIRONMENTS, MOST DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 298 ORGANIC MATTER IS EVENTUALLY MINERALIZED. IN ANAEROBIC ENVIRONMENTS, SUCH AS THE PEATLANDS OF THE EVERGLADES, A PORTION OF THE DEAD ORGANIC MATTER IS MINERALIZED SO SLOWLY THAT THE NUTRIENTS IT CONTAINS CAN BE STORED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND REMOVED FROM THE NUTRIENT CYCLE." IS THIS ESSENTIALLY, DR. QUALLS, DESCRIBING AN OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEM? A. YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. AND THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT -- FURTHER DOWN, WHERE YOU SAY, "WHEN AREAS OF THE EVERGLADES PEATLANDS WERE DRAINED FOR AGRICULTURE, A GREAT FLUSH OF AEROBIC MINERALIZATION RELEASED NUTRIENTS, CAUSING CONDITIONS OF HIGH FERTILITY, EXCEPT FOR CERTAIN MICRONUTRIENT DEFICIENCIES." ARE YOU DESCRIBING, BASICALLY A EUTROPHIC SYSTEM THERE? A. RIGHT. THERE I WAS ACTUALLY DESCRIBING THE FIELDS THAT THE SUGAR CANE AND VEGETABLES ARE GROWN ON THEMSELVES. Q. OH, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND IN THE MIDDLE, I ASSUME THAT AS A CONTINUED DESCRIPTION OF OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEM, "IN THE PAST, THE SLOWNESS OF THE NUTRIENT CYCLE IN MANY PORTIONS OF THE EVERGLADES LED TO DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 299 CONDITIONS OF VERY LOW FERTILITY." IS THAT -- IS THAT AN OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEM? A. YES, RIGHT, UH-HUH (YES). Q. OVER ON THE NEXT PAGE, "CONDITIONS IN THE SURFACE PEAT OF THE NATURAL AREAS OF THE EVERGLADES ARE NOT ALWAYS ANAEROBIC." DO YOUR RESULTS SHOW THIS, THAT THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS ANAEROBIC? A. OH, YEAH. AT CERTAIN TIMES, YOU KNOW, DURING THE DROUGHT IN 1990, WHEN THE WATER LEVELS GOT VERY LOW, THERE WERE -- I THINK IN SOME PLACES AS MUCH AS TWENTY OR TWENTY-FIVE CENTIMETERS BELOW THE SURFACE -- THERE WERE SOME REDOX POTENTIALS THAT INDICATED BORDERLINE AEROBIC CONDITIONS. THERE WAS NOTHING THAT WAS REALLY INTENSELY AEROBIC, BUT IN AREAS THAT WERE -- WHERE THE WATER TABLE WAS WELL BELOW THE PEAT SURFACE, THEY DID BECOME AEROBIC IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES--- Q. OKAY. A. ---IN SOME PLOTS. Q. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT THE BOTTOM, WHERE THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT ARE GOING TO BE ANSWERED. YOU SAY QUESTION ONE: "ARE THE ORGANIC NUTRIENTS STORED IN THE SOIL OF THE ENRICHED ZONE MORE EASILY MINERALIZED THAN THOSE FAR FROM THE DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 300 HILLSBORO CANAL UNDER (a) AEROBIC CONDITIONS, AND THEN (b), UNDER ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS?" BRIEFLY, WHAT WOULD YOUR ANSWER TO THOSE BE? A. TO THOSE -- THOSE PARTICULAR OBJECTIVES, I HAVEN'T ANALYZED THE DATA ENOUGH TO FIGURE THAT OUT YET--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---THERE'S A WHOLE SECTION OF THAT EXPERIMENT, WHERE WE FRACTIONATED THE VARIOUS FORMS OF ORGANIC MATTER, BEFORE AND AFTER THAT SIX MONTHS INCUBATION, AND WE'VE DONE THE ANALYSES, BUT I HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO COMPLETELY ANALYZE AND COMPILE ALL THAT DATA. Q. OKAY. COULD YOU GIVE ME PRELIM -- PRELIMINARY ANSWERS--- A. WELL--- Q. ---IF THEY WERE QUALIFIED IN THAT WAY? A. ---I'M NOT EVEN REALLY SURE I COULD EVEN GIVE YOU PRELIMINARY ANSWERS, EXCEPT THAT JUST FROM LOOKING ROUGHLY AT THE NUMBERS, I THINK THAT A LARGE PART OF THE PHOSPHORUS THAT WAS MINERALIZED IN THE ANAEROBIC INCUBATION HAD TO HAVE COME FROM MICROBIAL BIOMASS, THE DEATH OF MICROBIAL BIOMASS THERE. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 301 Q. THAT'S AS FAR AS YOU WANT TO GO? A. YEAH. AND THAT -- THAT'S JUST A BALLPARK IDEA, FROM LOOKING AT THE VERY ROUGH NUMBERS. Q. OKAY. THE SECOND OBJECTIVE WAS, "IS THE DECOMPOSITION OF SUBSURFACE PEAT SIGNIFICANT UNDER ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS?" CAN YOU ANSWER THAT? A. OKAY. THERE'S TWO QUESTIONS HERE. WAS THERE A SIGNIFICANT DECOMPOSITION OF CARBON--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---OF THE SOIL ORGANIC MATTER ITSELF. AND THAT ACTUALLY TURNED OUT TO BE VERY SMALL. AND THERE DID SEEM TO BE A SIGNIFICANT RELEASE, THOUGH OF PHOSPHATE FROM THOSE ANAEROBIC INCUBATIONS. BUT, LIKE I SAY, I THINK THAT THAT WAS LARGELY DUE TO THE INTENSELY REDUCING CONDITIONS THAT DEVELOPED OVER THAT SIX MONTH INCUBATION, AT THIRTY-FIVE DEGREES INSIDE AN INCUBATOR. Q. SO WE PRETTY MUCH NARROWED THAT ONE TO THOSE FAIRLY UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES, I GUESS--- A. YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---IN YOUR OPINION? A. RIGHT, YEAH. AND THE INTENTION OF THAT EXPERIMENT WAS NOT TO SIMULATE THE ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY FOUND IN THE FIELD, BUT RATHER TO TRY DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 302 TO GET AS MUCH DECOMPOSITION AS POSSIBLE, SO THAT WE COULD MEASURE SOME SORTS OF CHANGES DURING THAT SIX MONTH PERIOD. AND IT'S REALLY KIND OF AN ASSAY, RATHER THAN ANYTHING MEANT TO REPRESENT THE FIELD CIRCUMSTANCES. Q. I BELIEVE THAT ONE OF YOUR CO-WORKERS -- I BELIEVE IT WAS DR. RADER -- SAID THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE AN EXPERIMENT SET UP TO SEE IF DECOMPOSITION IS ENHANCED BY NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT. ARE YOU AWARE OF THAT? A. THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH. Q. OKAY. WILL THAT ANSWER SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS? A. YEAH. WELL, LET ME SAY THAT THE DECOMPOSITION OF RECENT LEAF LITTER, AND THE DECOMPOSITION OF THE OLDER PEAT ARE PROBABLY TWO SEPARATE QUESTIONS. I THINK THEY PROBABLY BEHAVE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY. Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. STEVE DAVIS HAS ALREADY SHOWN THAT IN THE ENRICHED AREA, THE CATTAIL AND SAWGRASS LEAVES DECOMPOSED FASTER IN THE ENRICHED AREA THAN IN THE UNENRICHED AREA. Q. OKAY. I DIDN'T REALIZE THE DECOMPOSITION EXPERIMENT WAS -- IT'S -- IT'S RESTRICTED TO DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 303 ABOVEGROUND? A. RIGHT, YEAH. THESE ARE JUST RECENTLY--- Q. ABOVE -- YEAH, SURFACE. A. ---YOU KNOW, LEAVES, BASICALLY KIND OF--- Q. OKAY. A. ---LIKE AUTUMN LEAVES, EXCEPT THAT THERE'S NO AUTUMN THERE. Q. WE HAVE OUR SEASONS. NUMBER THREE, "HOW DOES THE PERIODIC LOWERING OF WATER LEVEL (AEROBIC CONDITIONS) AFFECT THE MINERALIZATION OF PHOSPHORUS?" CAN YOU ANSWER THAT, BRIEFLY? A. WELL, OKAY, IN TERMS OF ORGANIC MATTER--- Q. OKAY. A. ---OBVIOUSLY, THE -- UNDER AEROBIC CONDITIONS, IT DECOMPOSED MUCH, MUCH FASTER. UNDER ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS, IT ACTUALLY LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS MORE PHOSPHORUS RELEASED UNDER ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS THAN THERE WAS. BUT I THINK FROM PRELIMINARY LOOKS AT THE DATA, THAT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY DUE TO ACTUALLY DECOMPOSITION OF THAT DEAD ORGANIC MATTER. BUT IT WAS INSTEAD PROBABLY MAINLY DUE TO THE BACTERIA AND FUNGI THAT WAS IN THERE DYING UNDER THOSE INTENSE ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS AND RELEASING THEIR TISSUE PHOSPHORUS. AND THEN THERE DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 304 WAS NO NEW MICROBES GROWING THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT BACK UP. Q. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT YOU DISCUSSED WITH ME THIS MORNING? A. RIGHT, YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. A. AND SO, RIGHT NOW, I CAN'T FULLY ANSWER THAT QUESTION, UNTIL I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY THOROUGHLY LOOK AT ALL THE RESULTS FROM THE FRACTIONATION. Q. AND YOU SAID THAT'S GOING TO TAKE SIX MONTHS? WAS THAT THE ONE THAT WAS TAKING SIX MONTHS, OR YOU HAVEN'T TOLD ME HOW LONG--- A. NO, I THINK THAT WAS--- Q. ---HOW LONG THIS WAS GOING TO TAKE? A. ---THAT WAS ANOTHER ONE. Q. OKAY. A. AND, YEAH, I WOULD SAY, IT'S GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER TWO OR THREE MONTHS, BECAUSE--- Q. OKAY. AND THEN YOU THINK YOU WOULD HAVE ANSWERS AT THE CONCLUSION OF THOSE TWO TO THREE MONTHS? A. I HOPE SO. YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE THAT -- THAT MANY OF THE THINGS VARIED STATISTICALLY SO MUCH THAT WE WON'T BE ABLE TO SAY WITH A DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 305 NINETY-FIVE PERCENT CONFIDENCE INTERVAL THAT SUCH AND SUCH CHANGES OCCURRED, BUT HOPEFULLY. Q. NUMBER FOUR: IS THE DECOMPOSITION AND MINERALIZATION OF PEAT NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS ACCELERATED BY ADDITION OF INORGANIC NITROGEN OF PHOSPHORUS IN, FIRST, THE ENRICHED ZONE, AND THEN THE NON-ENRICHED ZONE? A. AT THE VERY HIGH LEVELS OF ADDITION OF INORGANIC NITROGEN, AND THE VERY HIGH LEVELS OF ADDITION OF ORGANIC PHOSPHORUS, IT DID SEEM LIKE THAT THE -- THAT THE ORGANIC MATTER, OR THE PEAT DID DECOMPOSE FASTER IN -- UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ADDITIONS OF LARGE AMOUNTS OF PHOSPHORUS. WE DON'T KNOW THAT UNDER THE AMOUNTS OF PHOSPHORUS WHICH MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY BE OCCURRING RIGHT NOW IN THE UNENRICHED AREA -- I MEAN -- SORRY -- IN THE ENRICHED AREA--- Q. OKAY. NUMBER FIVE--- A. ---IN OTHER WORDS, WE DIDN'T USE ENTIRELY NATURAL CONCENTRATIONS. WE USED VERY, VERY HIGH CONCENTRATIONS TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, GET A HANDLE ON THAT FIRST, YOU KNOW. Q. AND THIS IS THE SAME AS YOU'VE BEEN DISCUSSING WITH ME ALONG? DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 306 A. RIGHT, YEAH. Q. OKAY. NUMBER FIVE: HOW LABILE OR REFRACTORY IS EACH OF THE FRACTIONS SEPARATED BY THE PHOSPHOROUS FRACTIONIZATION PROCEDURE UNDER AEROBIC AND ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS? A. AND THAT AGAIN IS ONE QUESTION WHICH WE--- Q. OKAY. A. ---WE HAD HOPED TO ANSWER, BUT HAVEN'T COMPLETELY ANALYZED THAT DATA YET. Q. OKAY. AND FINALLY, "WHAT PERCENTAGE OF NITROGEN LOST OR IN DECOMPOSITION IS ACTUALLY IN THE REFRACTORY DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN FORM, WHICH IS FOUND IN SUCH HIGH CONCENTRATIONS?" A. YEAH. ACTUALLY, WE DID ANSWER THAT QUESTION, AND THAT IS -- THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF PART OF CHAPTER NINE THERE. AND IT'S IN FIGURE -- FIGURE 9-3 ON PAGE 374. AND IF YOU'LL NOTICE, I HAVE THE THREE FORMS OF NITROGEN THAT WERE MINERALIZED DURING THAT EXPERIMENT, AND DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN IS THE TOP BAR. AND, AS YOU'LL NOTICE, THERE IS PRETTY LARGE QUANTITIES OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN GENERATED. Q. TURNING TO THE APPLICATION, DR. QUALLS, OF WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH THE MINERALIZATION POTENTIAL OF DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 307 NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS--- A. OKAY. Q. ---YOU GIVE US THE CONCLUSION -- OR I'M CALLING A CONCLUSION -- THAT ON BALANCE, CATTAIL COMMUNITIES IN THE ENRICHED AREAS SO EFFECTIVELY REMOVE AND STORE PHOSPHORUS--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---AND WE DISCUSSED THAT--- A. RIGHT. Q. ---THAT PREVIOUSLY. BEYOND THAT, TELL ME WHAT THE APPLICATION OF ALL OF THESE FINDINGS THAT YOU'VE MADE, HOW WE WOULD APPLY THOSE TO, LIKE SAY STA'S OR FLOWWAYS? A. OH, YEAH, FOR THE MINERALIZATION CHAPTER -- I THINK THAT AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY MANIPULATE THE STA'S, I'M NOT SURE IT'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO EASILY MANIPULATE THE STA'S TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VARIOUS DIFFERENCES AND MINERALIZATION POTENTIAL. AND -- AND ONE OF THE QUALIFICATIONS HERE IS BECAUSE OF THE -- UNDER THE ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS, THEY DID TURN OUT TO BE UNNATURALLY LOW -- UNNATURALLY LOW REDOX POTENTIALS. AND I THINK THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS THAT DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 308 WOULD ACTUALLY PROBABLY OCCUR IN THE STA'S. AND THAT'S OF COURSE, JUST A GUESS, BECAUSE I, I DON'T--- Q. SURE. A. ---YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO THE STA'S, BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST JUDGING FROM WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A. SO, RIGHT AT THE MOMENT, I WOULD SAY THEY HAVE FAIRLY LIMITED APPLICABILITY FOR ANYTHING THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE MANIPULABLE IN THE STA'S. Q. THE GOAL HAD BEEN THAT YOU HAD HOPED THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO PRODUCE SOME INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE USEFUL? A. YES. Q. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? A. UH-HUH (YES). RIGHT. UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. BUT, RIGHT NOW, BEYOND THE FACT THAT -- THAT YOUR WORK SUPPORTS THAT MAYBE CATTAILS WOULD BE USEFUL TO BE GROWN, AND THEN THERE'S -- THERE'S LIMITED APPLICATION OF ANYTHING ELSE? A. RIGHT. Q. OKAY. A. I GUESS IN A SENSE THAT IS AN APPLICATION THOUGH, IN THE SENSE THAT WE DID -- THE SURFACE SOIL THAT DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 309 WAS TAKEN FROM THE ENRICHED ZONE, WAS IN A CATTAIL AREA, AND THERE WAS SLIGHTLY MORE MINERALIZATION FROM THE -- THIS SURFACE SOIL FROM THE ENRICHED AREA, MAINLY BECAUSE IT HAD HIGHER CONCENTRATION OF PHOSPHORUS TO BEGIN WITH. Q. I HAVE ONLY ONE QUESTION ON DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 67, AND IT'S ON THE COVER. I GAVE YOU THE WHOLE EXHIBIT, AND I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY. A. OH, OKAY. Q. I MUST HAVE BEEN TIRED WHEN I HAD THINGS REPRODUCED. DO YOU SEE THIS ONE? A. YEAH. Q. THERE'S A REFERENCE TO JOHN DUNKLEMAN. WHO IS HE? A. OH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T EVEN KNOW. THAT'S -- THAT'S NOT EVEN MY HANDWRITING. Q. OH, OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHOSE HANDWRITING IT IS? A. NO, I'M NOT EVEN SURE. WAS THIS IN THAT FILE? Q. IT'S MARKED DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NUMBER 67, QUALLS, ANNUAL REPORT. DO YOU KNOW WHO HE IS? A. OH, THIS IS ACTUALLY THE FRONT OF A MANILA FOLDER--- Q. SURE, PROBABLY. A. ---SO, NO, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS. Q. OKAY. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 310 A. MY GUESS IS THAT SOMEBODY WAS USING THAT MANILA FOLDER FOR A SCRATCH PAD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q. OKAY. HOW ABOUT KOCH, SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT REPORT? A. YEAH. I KNOW THAT JUST BE MARGUERITE COOK, I THINK. Q. OKAY. COOK, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU'RE RIGHT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, THAT'S ALL I HAD. I HAVE SEVERAL MORE, BUT NOT MANY. I THINK I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS ON ONE OF THE CHAPTERS, CHAPTER SIX. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A LITTLE BIT REGARDING YOUR CV, AND THOSE OTHER DOCUMENTS, AND WE'LL BE DONE. A. OKAY. Q. YOUR CV IS PULLED OFF OF DISK NUMBER 22. IS THIS THE MOST RECENT, DO YOU KNOW? I HAVE ANOTHER ONE, BUT I -- AND I GUESS I DIDN'T CHECK THE DATES. THERE WERE TWO, AND I JUST TOOK THIS ONE. THEY LOOKED TO ME TO BE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. A. YEAH, PROBABLY, YEAH. Q. IS IT GOOD ENOUGH? A. YEAH--- Q. OKAY. A. ---I DON'T THINK ANYBODY -- ANYTHING HAS CHANGED SINCE AUGUST, THERE. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 311 Q. OKAY. WILL YOU DESCRIBE BRIEFLY FOR ME, YOUR EDUCATION? A. WELL, THE FIRST PART OF IT WAS POOR, BECAUSE I GREW UP IN NORTH CAROLINA, BUT -- WHICH I FOUND OUT WHEN I GOT INTO MY FIRST CALCULUS CLASS, WHERE EVERYBODY ELSE WAS OUT OF STATE. I WAS THE ONLY NORTH CAROLINA NATIVE, AND THEY HAD ALREADY HAD IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. Q. IT'S LOOKS LIKE YOU CAUGHT UP, LOOKING AT YOUR GPA, AND--- A. SO, ANYWAY, I GOT A B.S. IN BIOLOGY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA, AN M.S. IN PUBLIC HEALTH, SPECIALIZING IN ENVIRONMENTAL CHEMISTRY AND BIOLOGY, FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA, AND THEN A Ph.D. IN ECOLOGY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA. Q. OKAY. JUST BRIEFLY, WHAT TYPES OF COURSES DID YOU TAKE IN YOUR BACHELOR'S WORK? AND I WOULD JUST LIKE YOU TO TELL ME BRIEFLY THE COURSES OF YOUR MAJOR AREA OF STUDY. A. OH, YEAH, IN THE BACHELOR'S WORK, I MAJORED IN BIOLOGY AND TOOK COURSES LIKE CELL BIOLOGY, GENETICS, INVERTEBRATE ZOOLOGY, AND VARIOUS MATH COURSES, AND A LOT OF CHEMISTRY, ORGANIC DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 312 CHEMISTRY, ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY, GENERAL CHEMISTRY. Q. OKAY. YOUR MASTER'S? A. FOR A MASTER'S, I GUESS PROBABLY THE MOST PERTINENT COURSES THAT I TOOK THERE WAS WATER CHEMISTRY, I THINK ADVANCED METHODS OF INSTRUMENTAL ANALYSIS, AND, LET'S SEE, SOME MICROBIOLOGY COURSES. I THINK THERE'S A MICROBIAL ECOLOGY COURSE THERE. AND THOSE ARE PROBABLY THE MOST PERTINENT ONES. Q. WHAT WAS YOUR -- YOUR THESIS ON? A. FOR MY MASTER'S, THE THESIS WAS ON CONTROL OF NITROGEN CYCLING AND LEAF LITTER DECOMPOSITION IN A SWAMP STREAM. Q. HOW ABOUT NITROGEN CYCLING? IT'S NOT THAT USEFUL, IS IT, FOR YOUR WORK HERE? A. WELL, IT COMES IN HANDY EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---WE'RE WORKING ON PHOSPHORUS AND NITROGEN SIMULTANEOUSLY, SO. Q. RIGHT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, AND YOUR Ph.D.? A. THAT WAS DONE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA. AND YOU WANT THE COURSES? Q. JUST GENERALLY. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 313 A. YEAH, THEY'RE LISTED IN THE--- Q. OH, THESE ARE THE ONES LISTED? A. YEAH, THEY'RE ACTUALLY LISTED HERE. Q. OH. A. SYSTEMS ECOLOGY, SOIL CHEMISTRY. Q. YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ THEM IF THESE ARE THE LISTED COURSES, THAT'S FINE. AND YOUR DISSERTATION? A. THAT WAS "THE BIOGEOCHEMICAL PROPERTIES OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER IN A DECIDUOUS FOREST ECOSYSTEM: THEIR INFLUENCE ON THE RETENTION OF NITROGEN, PHOSPHORUS AND CARBON." Q. OKAY. YOU'RE LISTED AS A CONSULTANT IN HERE FOR J.M. MONTGOMERY CONSULTING ENGINEERS. WHAT TYPE--- A. THAT'S RIGHT. Q. ---OF WORK DO YOU DO FOR THEM? A. THAT'S HELPING THEM DESIGN EXPERIMENTS AND SYSTEMS FOR USING ULTRAVIOLET LIGHT TO DISINFECT WATER AND WASTEWATER. Q. TREATMENT SYSTEMS? A. RIGHT, UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE IN DESIGNING WASTEWATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS? DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 314 A. YEAH, I WORKED FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS DOING RESEARCH ON ULTRAVIOLET DISINFECTION OF WATER AND WASTEWATER, MAINLY WASTEWATER, AND BUILT SOME PILOT PLANTS, AND DESIGNED SOME MEANS FOR EVALUATING THE EFFICIENCY OF THESE WATER -- WASTEWATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS, MAINLY. Q. DO YOU DO ANY OTHER CONSULTING WORK? A. NO. Q. OKAY. I -- AND I GUESS I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT YOU'RE IN THE SAME POSTURE AS DR. CRAFT, THAT YOU'RE NOT A CONSULTANT OR BEING PAID FOR ANYTHING RELATED TO THE EVERGLADES, SWIM CHALLENGES, OR ANY OF THE EVERGLADES LITIGATION? A. RIGHT, YEAH, UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE NOT BEING PAID TO BE HERE TODAY? A. NO. Q. OKAY. I'M SORRY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE ON THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU A FEW QUESTIONS ON NUMBER 123, SLOUGH -- SOMETHING OR ANOTHER -- EXP. A. RIGHT, SLOUGH EXPERIMENT, PROBABLY. Q. RIGHT. A. YEAH. OKAY, THIS IS -- LOOKS LIKE A MANILA DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 315 FOLDER, PROBABLY. Q. IS IT A MISCELLANEOUS FILE? A. YES. Q. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU FIRST, IF -- ARE YOU THE ONE WHO TESTED PERRIER WATER AND TOLD US WHAT THE PHOSPHORUS CONTENT OF IT WAS? A. NO, NO. ACTUALLY, NOW I REALIZE THAT THIS IS ONE WHICH ACTUALLY CAME FROM THE GENERAL LAB RECORDS. THIS WAS NOT SPECIFICALLY FROM A FILE OF MINE IN PARTICULAR. Q. BUT DOES THIS REFLECT THAT TESTING OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF WATER FOR PHOSPHORUS? A. ABOUT HOW MANY PAGES DOWN IS THAT? Q. I THINK IT'S RIGHT IN THE BEGINNING, DEEP PARK, DEER PARK SPRING, ZEPHYR HILL. A. OH, OKAY, YEAH, SORRY. Q. I'VE BOUGHT SOME OF THESE. A. OH, YEAH. YEAH, I DIDN'T TEST THOSE. THAT WAS A TECHNICIAN. IT'S FROM THE FILES OF A TECHNICIAN, WHO NOW WORKS AT SAS INSTITUTE, YOU KNOW, SO HE'S LONG GONE. THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, I THINK. Q. WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS--- A. '91--- Q. ---TO CHECK THE BOTTLED WATER FOR PHOSPHORUS? DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 316 A. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE. Q. IT WASN'T YOUR IDEA? A. NO, I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. Q. OKAY. AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHOSE IDEA IT WAS? A. NO. Q. OKAY. WHERE IT SAYS FLORIDA WATER, WHAT IS THAT, ORTHOPHOSPHATE ANALYSIS FOR RUSS RADER, SITES, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH? THOSE ARE -- THOSE ARE JUST SAMPLES THAT ARE TAKEN? A. HOW MANY PAGES DOWN WAS THAT? Q. OH, JUST BEHIND. A. OH, OKAY, YEAH. THAT'S A FEW PAGES DOWN. YEAH, THAT IS FROM ANALYSES WHEN WE WERE LOOKING FOR A GOOD PLACE TO PUT THE DOSING STUDY SITE, AND WE WENT AND TOOK SOME SAMPLES FROM 2A, 2B, AND THEN FLEW INTO A PART OF 3B TO TAKE SOME WATER SAMPLES THERE. Q. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU GO A LITTLE FURTHER BACK, YOU SEE TO RUSS RADER FROM ERIC WALDBAUER? A. YEAH, UH-HUH (YES). Q. "PHOSPHORUS LEVELS AT DIFFERENT SITES." A. YEAH. Q. AND I GUESS I'M A LITTLE CURIOUS WHAT THESE ARE, AND WHERE THE ENP -- I ASSUME THAT'S DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 317 EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK -- WHERE THOSE NUMBERS CAME FROM? A. YEAH, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE, BECAUSE AT THAT TIME, RUSS WAS PRETTY MUCH HEADING UP THAT, YOU KNOW, SEARCH FOR THE SITE. Q. OKAY. YOU DON'T WHAT THESE NUMBERS REFLECT OR WHERE THE EVERGLADE'S NUMBERS ORIGINATED? A. NOT REALLY--- Q. OKAY. THAT'S ALL I HAVE ON THAT ONE. A. ---I WAS ONLY ALONG ON ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE WE GOT SOME FROM 3A. Q. WERE YOU ON THE SAMPLING TRIP WHEN THE WATER WAS COLLECTED? A. I WAS ON THE ONE TO 3A, BECAUSE WHAT WE DID WAS WENT -- WE WERE DOING THE REGULAR GRADIENT STUDY--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---I THINK THAT WAS EITHER FEBRUARY -- I GUESS IT MUST HAVE BEEN FEBRUARY IN 1991, AND THEN AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE JUST FLEW DOWN TO AN AREA IN 3A AND LOOKED FOR A SITE. Q. DID YOU GO TO 2B THAT DAY, ALSO? A. I DON'T THINK WE WENT TO 2B THAT DAY. I THINK WE MAY HAVE GONE TO THE SITE IN 2A, PROBABLY CLOSE TO DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 318 WHERE OUR DOSING STUDY ACTUALLY ENDED UP BEING LOCATED--- Q. WERE YOU ON--- A. ---AND THEN WENT DOWN TO 3A THAT SAME DAY. Q. WERE YOU ON THE SHIP, THE MARCH 28, 1991, IS THAT THE DATE, TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION, THAT THE TRIP MIGHT HAVE BEEN TAKEN? A. NO, I THINK THE TRIP WAS PROBABLY TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN IN FEBRUARY--- Q. OKAY. A. ---OH, THAT'S WHEN I WENT, YOU KNOW. Q. OKAY. A. THESE COULD ACTUALLY BE, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER TRIP TO 3A. I JUST REMEMBER IT WAS ON ONE OF OUR REGULAR SAMPLING TRIPS, THAT WE JUST TOOK A LITTLE JAUNT DOWN TO 3A. Q. SO, YOU ARE UNAWARE OF DR. RADER ACTUALLY ENTERING THE PARK TO TAKE SAMPLES? A. NO. Q. NO. YOU'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THAT? A. RIGHT. YEAH, NO, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY OF IT. Q. OKAY. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT A DOCUMENT FROM YESTERDAY, CRAFT NUMBER 35. IT'S A -- IT WAS HIS FILE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN IT DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 319 OR NOT, BUT I'M JUST GOING TO SHOW IT TO IT. IT'S "MERCURY CONTAMINATIONS IN THE EVERGLADES' ECOSYSTEM," HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT DOCUMENT? A. NO. Q. OKAY. THAT'S THE LAST QUESTION I WOULD HAVE ON THAT DOCUMENT. A. OKAY. Q. YOU REFER TO MERCURY IN THE EVERGLADES IN ONE OF YOUR CHAPTERS, AND AT THE MOMENT, I CAN'T RECALL WHERE IT IS, BUT I PROBABLY CAN FIND IT. DO YOU RECALL WHERE IT IS? IS IT IN CHAPTER SIX? A. OH, FOR -- OH, YEAH. I THINK -- YEAH, I REMEMBER REFERRING TO IT SOMEWHERE, BUT I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHERE. I THINK IT WAS IN CONNECTION WITH REDOX POTENTIALS AND--- Q. CAN YOU HELP ME GET THERE? A. ---THAT'S PROBABLY IN CHAPTER SIX. Q. I THINK ON PAGE 222. AND THEN THERE MAY BE -- MAY HAVE BEEN A REFERENCE SOMEWHERE ELSE. I CAN'T RECALL. (THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI REVIEWS DOCUMENTS.) Q. ON PAGE 247--- A. OH, OKAY. Q. ---THERE'S TWO -- THERE'S TWO REFERENCES TO DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 320 MERCURY THERE. I'D LIKE TO JUST TAKE A SECOND AN LOOK AT THOSE TWO. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENTS.) MR. McCAUGHAN: BOTH ON 247? MS. PONZOLI: ONE'S ON 222, AND ONE IS ON 247. Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) ON 222, YOU SAY THAT "...THERE HAS BEEN CONCERN THAT THE NUTRIENT-ENRICHED CATTAIL ZONE DID TEND TO HAVE LOW REDOX POTENTIALS..." A. RIGHT. Q. WHICH YOU DID FIND? A. WELL, THAT'S BASED ON THE -- THE CONCERN FOR THAT WAS BASED ON THE SWIM PLAN, WHERE IT ACTUALLY SAYS SOMEWHERE IN THE SWIM PLAN. I THINK THAT WAS BASED ON BELANGER'S WORK--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---SHOWING THERE WAS POSSIBLY SOME DIFFERENCES IN DISSOLVED ORGANIC AND -- NO -- IN DISSOLVED OXYGEN. AND ALSO THERE WAS ANOTHER STUDY DONE BY THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, AND I READ THIS VERY LONG AGO, THAT I'M KIND OF STILL VAGUE ON THAT, BUT IT HAD -- IT WAS SOMETHING ABOUT ANAEROBIC METABOLISM, OR ANAEROBIC DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 321 MICROORGANISMS BEING MORE COMMON IN THE CATTAIL ZONE, THE ENRICHED ZONE. AND I BELIEVE THAT WAS ACTUALLY SPECULATION, BUT I REMEMBER SEEING IT CITED AS FACT ONE TIME IN THE SWIM PLAN--- Q. SURE. A. ---WHERE IT WAS ACTUALLY SPECULATION, JUST TO POSSIBLY EXPLAIN SOME ODD RESULTS IN THE ORIGINAL PAPER. Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS SPECULATION? A. OH, BECAUSE I READ BOTH VERSIONS, AND THE SWIM PLAN HAD IT WRONG. Q. OKAY. AND THE OTHER ONE WAS -- TELL ME AGAIN, YOU SAID WAS--- A. THE OTHER ONE WAS A DOCUMENT PUT OUT BY THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT BY -- I THINK, BUT I COULDN'T SWEAR TO THIS, THAT IT WAS PAM REEDER AND STEVE DAVIS, I BELIEVE--- Q. OKAY. A. ---AND, YOU KNOW--- Q. ---YOU SAY--- A. ---I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AGAIN. Q. ---YOU SAY THEY EXTRAPOLATED TOO MUCH IN THE SWIM PLAN FROM THAT FIRST DOCUMENT? A. RIGHT, SOMEHOW -- YEAH, SOMEHOW IT MADE IT FROM DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 322 SPECULATION TO SAYING THAT THEY ACTUALLY FOUND THAT--- Q. OKAY. A. ---I BELIEVE AT THE TIME THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY FOUND RELATIVE -- THEY FOUND A -- I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT THIS, SO THIS IS JUST WHAT I REMEMBER -- THEY FOUND THAT THERE WERE LOWER NUMBERS OF MICROORGANISMS IN THE ENRICHED -- SOME OF THE ENRICHED AREAS. AND THEY THOUGHT, WELL, THIS MIGHT BE EXPLAINED BY MAYBE THERE ARE JUST HIGHER NUMBERS OF ANAEROBIC MICROORGANISMS, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ASSAY FOR THAT. AND THEY WERE JUST SPECULATING AS TO WHY THERE MIGHT BE LOWER NUMBERS OF AEROBIC MICROORGANISMS. AND I BELIEVE THAT IN THE SWIM PLAN THAT WAS QUOTED AS AN ACTUAL FINDING. AND I THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM, THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT NEEDED TO BE ADDRESSED. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE PURPOSES FOR LOOKING AT THE REDOX POTENTIAL. Q. OKAY. BUT YOU DID FIND LOWER REDOX IN YOUR ENRICHED CATTAIL ZONE, DID YOU NOT? A. NO, NOT -- ONLY SLIGHTLY LOWER. AND, IN MOST CASES, IT WAS NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 323 Q. THAN THE -- THAN THE DENSE SAWGRASS STAND? A. RIGHT, YEAH, YEAH, SO--- Q. BUT DEFINITELY LOWER THAN THE OPEN WATER UNENRICHED SITE? A. WELL, NO, WE DIDN'T TAKE ANY REDOX POTENTIALS IN THE OPEN WATER ENRICHED SITES. Q. BUT YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT THEY WOULD DEFINITELY BE LOWER, WOULD YOU NOT? A. IN THE OPEN WATER ENRICHED SITES? Q. NO, NO, IN YOUR -- IN YOUR SAWGRASS ENRICHED SITES, THAN IN AN OPEN WATER UNENRICHED SITE. A. OH, NO, IN FACT, I WOULD -- THAT JUST CALLS FOR SPECULATION, BUT I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT. Q. DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND? A. QUITE POSSIBLY, BUT, YOU KNOW--- Q. YOU DON'T KNOW? A. ---UNTIL WE WOULD ACTUALLY DO SOME REDOX PROFILES, I WON'T KNOW. Q. HAVE YOU DONE THEM? A. NO. Q. NONE AT ALL? A. WE HAVE -- NO, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING--- Q. OKAY. A. ---IN THE OPEN WATER SLOUGH AREAS. AT LEAST, I DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 324 HAVEN'T. WE WERE STICKING STRICTLY IN THOSE TWO COMMUNITIES THAT WERE DEALT WITH PREVIOUSLY IN THOSE OTHER EXPERIMENTS BY BELANGER. Q. I MUST -- I MUST HAVE -- I MUST BE TIRED, AND THE DAY IS GETTING LONG, AND I'VE BEEN DOING THIS TOO MANY DAYS, BUT I THOUGHT WE WENT ALL THROUGH THIS, THIS MORNING, AND YOU SAID THAT IN THE OPEN WATER AREAS THAT ARE UNENRICHED, WHERE YOU'VE GOT SUNLIGHT AND AIR, YOU'RE--- A. RIGHT, YEAH. Q. ---GOING TO HAVE--- A. YEAH. Q. ---HIGHER DISSOLVED OXYGEN? A. YEAH, IN THE SURFACE WATER--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---BUT THAT'S ONLY IN THE SURFACE WATER--- Q. OKAY. A. ---ABOVE AN ALGAL MAT. Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ANYWHERE BELOW THAT ALGAL MAT--- Q. RIGHT. A. ---I DON'T REALLY KNOW. BUT I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE THE CASE BELOW THE ALGAL MAT. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 325 Q. DO YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE THE SAME AS YOUR -- AS YOUR ENRICHED CATTAIL, DENSE MACROPHYTE AREAS? A. I DON'T REALLY KNOW. Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET'S GO ON THE SECOND PART OF THE SENTENCE. YOU SAID "THERE HAS BEEN CONCERN THAT IF THE NUTRIENT ENRICHED CATTAIL ZONE DID TEND TO HAVE LOW REDOX POTENTIALS" -- I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---"MERCURY IN THE SOIL AND THE WATER MIGHT UNDERGO UNDESIRABLE TRANSFORMATIONS AND ADD TO THE HIGH MERCURY CONCENTRATIONS FOUND IN SOME AREAS OF THE EVERGLADES." A. UH-HUH (YES). RIGHT. Q. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT MERCURY METHYLATION, IN THESE TYPE OF CONDITIONS? A. OH, VERY LITTLE. THAT'S JUST BASICALLY A VERY GENERAL STATEMENT, AND -- AND WE'RE TRYING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO LOOK AT. Q. THE MERCURY PROBLEM? A. RIGHT, AS A RATIONALE FOR ACTUALLY DOING THE EXPERIMENTS ON REDOX POTENTIAL. Q. OKAY. OKAY. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 326 A. AND, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH MERCURY AT ALL. Q. DO YOU PLAN TO? A. IN CONNECTION WITH THOSE EXPERIMENTS, NO. Q. DO YOU PLAN TO? A. NO. Q. YOU HAVE NO PLANS? A. NOT--- Q. OKAY. A. ---NOT MYSELF. Q. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE WHO DOES? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. HAVE YOU HEARD OF ANYONE WHO'S DOING THIS TYPE OF WORK? A. I DON'T REALLY KNOW. Q. ALL RIGHT. PAGE 247, YOU SAY AGAIN, "BECAUSE NATURAL DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER IS A POWERFUL AGENT FOR COMPLEXATION OF METALS"--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---"IT PLAYS AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN METAL TOXICITY (e.g., MERCURY)"--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---"METAL EXPORT (e.g., MERCURY AGAIN) AND WEATHERING OF ROCK." DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 327 A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. OKAY. IS THIS CONCERN JUST THE SAME, THAT MERCURY IS A BIG PROBLEM IN THE EVERGLADES, AND THIS IS A RATIONALE FOR LOOKING AT REDOX? A. THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH. WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING SPECIFIC THERE, BUT THAT IS JUST THE REASON, YOU KNOW, WHY IS, IN THIS CASE, DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN -- WHY WOULD THAT -- WHAT ROLES MIGHT THAT PLAY IN THE ECOLOGY OF THE EVERGLADES. AND THAT CERTAINLY IS A ROLE FOR HUMIC SUBSTANCES. THEY ARE POWERFUL AGENTS FOR COMPLEXING METALS. AND I HAVE READ A COUPLE OF REFERENCES THAT MERCURY, WHEN IT'S BOUND BY HUMIC SUBSTANCES CAN UNDERGO SOME TRANSFORMATIONS, PARTICULARLY IN CONJUNCTION WITH SUNLIGHT. BUT BEYOND THAT, THAT WAS STRICTLY JUST HAVING READ A REFERENCE, YOU KNOW. Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW DR. PATRICK AT LSU? A. YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF DR. PATRICK DOING ANY MERCURY TESTING? A. NO. I HAD HEARD SOME -- SOMETHING ABOUT THAT HE WAS INTERESTED IN IT. Q. UH-HUH (YES). DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 328 A. BUT I DON'T REALLY KNOW ANY DETAILS. Q. IS THIS RECENTLY? A. I THINK IT IS FAIRLY RECENTLY. Q. BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE PLANS TO DO, OR WHERE? A. NOT REALLY. Q. I WOULD -- I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU JUST A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT SIX, THAT SOMEHOW I HAVEN'T COVERED IN THE COURSE OF MY OTHER QUESTIONS, AND I'M -- I'M DONE. YOU TALK ABOUT ON 196 AN INTERESTING CONCEPT THAT WE WENT BACK AND FORTH ON YESTERDAY, A SYSTEM BEGINNING TO COME TO EQUILIBRIUM, WITH TWENTY-FIVE TO THIRTY YEARS OF NUTRIENT INPUTS FROM THE HILLSBORO CANALS -- IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE? A. YEAH. Q. OKAY. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, A SYSTEM BEGINNING TO COME TO EQUILIBRIUM? A. WHAT I MEANT IN THAT -- AT THAT POINT WAS, THAT WHEN WE BEGAN OUR SAMPLING ALONG THE GRADIENT IN WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A, IT WAS DURING THAT YEAR, I THINK THAT, AT LEAST OFFICIALLY, THE CANAL GATES TO THE HILLSBORO CANAL WERE NOT OPENED DURING THAT YEAR. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 329 Q. UH-HUH (YES). UH-HUH (YES). A. SO, IT PROVIDED US A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, IF, YOU KNOW, FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR YOU SHUT OFF ALL THE INPUTS. AND I DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY THAT IT WAS COMING TO ANY SORT OF EQUILIBRIUM WITH, YOU KNOW, BEING SATURATED WITH PHOSPHORUS, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WHAT I REALLY MEANT THERE WAS THAT IT WAS BEGINNING TO, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE CUT OFF THE INPUTS, AND IT'S BEGINNING TO KIND OF RE-EQUILIBRATE. Q. OKAY. BUT ONCE YOU OPEN THE GATES AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE DISTURBED, IS THAT -- IS THAT IMPLICIT IN YOUR ANSWER? A. WELL, YOU KNOW, NOT NECESSARILY DISTURBED, BUT IN THE SENSE THAT ONCE YOU OPEN THE GATES AGAIN, IT COULD BE SUBJECT TO FURTHER CHANGES, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY FURTHER PHOSPHORUS INPUTS. Q. OKAY. A. BUT WE THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR, WHEN THERE WAS NO FURTHER INPUTS. Q. OKAY. YOU USED THE WORD, THE MAGIC WORD, SATURATED. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY SATURATED. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 330 A. RIGHT. Q. IF THAT SYSTEM WERE SATURATED, WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN? A. I WOULD LIKE TO -- THAT'S OBVIOUSLY, AGAIN, A SEMANTIC TERM--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---AND I WOULD DEFINE SATURATION OF A NUTRIENT IN A CERTAIN ECOSYSTEM AS WHEN THE OUTPUT OF THE NUTRIENT EQUALS THE INPUT OF THE NUTRIENT, AND THERE'S NO CHANGE IN THE STORAGE OF THAT NUTRIENT OR ELEMENT WITHIN THE SYSTEM. AND, I THINK THAT IN A SYSTEM WHICH IS ALWAYS BUILDING PEAT, YOU WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO SAY THAT IT'S SATURATED, BECAUSE AS LONG AS YOU ARE LAYING DOWN PEAT, YOUR INPUTS -- YOUR OUTPUTS WILL ALWAYS BE LOWER THAN YOUR INPUTS--- Q. NOW--- A. ---EXCEPT FOR SOME TEMPORAL OSCILLATIONS, POSSIBLY--- Q. OKAY. PUTTING--- A. ---BUT THIS IS MORE OR LESS A THEORETICAL--- Q. I UNDERSTAND. A. ---CONCEPT, YOU KNOW, OF SATURATION. BUT I THINK YOU KNOW, THE ONE MOST PERTINENT TO WHAT WE'RE DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 331 INTERESTED IN, IN TRYING TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE STA'S, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE NATURAL SYSTEM THAT'S RECEIVING PHOSPHORUS, IS I WOULD USE THAT DEFINITION AS TO WHEN THE OUTPUTS WILL EQUAL THE INPUTS, AND THERE WILL NO LONGER BE ANY NET ACCUMULATION AND DEPOSITION IN THE SOIL. AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WILL HAPPEN. I THINK THAT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE DEPOSITION OF PEAT, AND ALWAYS BE DEPOSITION OF PHOSPHORUS. Q. SO, IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, YOUR DEFINITION OF SATURATION WOULD BE THE SAME AS IF IT WERE IN EQUILIBRIUM? I DON'T MEAN TO COMPLICATE THINGS. IT JUST SOUNDED TO ME AS THOUGH IT'S IN EQUILIBRIUM, IF THE INPUTS ARE EQUALLY THE OUTPUTS. I DON'T MEAN TO COMPLICATE THIS. IF IT'S NOT THE SAME, I'LL LET IT GO. A. RIGHT, YEAH. I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, TALK ABOUT EQUILIBRIUM. I WOULD SAY POSSIBLY YOU MIGHT APPLY THE WORD EQUILIBRIUM TO THE ENTIRE SYSTEM, BUT I DON'T THINK WE COULD APPLY THAT WORD EQUILIBRIUM IN THAT CASE, SO--- Q. OKAY--- A. ---YOU KNOW, NO, I WOULD -- I WOULD DISAGREE. Q. ---WHAT WOULD EQUIL -- WHAT WOULD EQUIL -- WE'LL DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 332 PUT A DIFFERENT DEFINITION ON EQUILIBRIUM. WHAT WOULD EQUILIBRIUM MEAN FOR WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A? A. I THINK -- I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO BE MUCH MORE SPECIFIC THAN THAT, BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE CHANGES IN SPECIES, POPULATIONS, YOU COULD HAVE CHANGES IN THE VARIOUS FORMS OF THE NUTRIENTS, ALL THINGS THAT I WOULD CALL DYNAMIC PROCESSES GOING ON, AND STILL POSSIBLY SEE A CASE WHERE, SAY, INPUTS AND OUTPUTS STAYED AT A ROUGHLY EQUAL LEVEL OVER THE YEARS. SO, I DON'T REALLY THINK WE CAN EVEN, YOU KNOW, GENERALIZE THAT MUCH TO SAY WHAT EQUILIBRIUM FOR THAT ENTIRE SYSTEM WILL BE. Q. DR. QUALLS, WOULD YOU -- WOULD YOU JUST BRIEFLY EXPLAIN TO ME HOW YOU DID YOUR WEIGHTED DISTANCES THAT ARE ON PAGE 202? WELL, THEY'RE THROUGHOUT HERE, BUT--- A. RIGHT, UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---AND I KNOW YOU'VE EXPLAINED THEM IN THE TEXT, BUT IF YOU'D JUST DO IT VERBALLY, I'D APPRECIATE IT. A. YES. BASICALLY WHAT IT IS, IS I MEASURED THE DISTANCES. I TOOK AT ANY ONE PARTICULAR POINT, LET'S SAY POINT NUMBER D1--- DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 333 Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---MEASURED THE DISTANCE TO THE "D" GATE, ADDED TO IT THE DISTANCE TO THE "C" GATE, AND THEN ADDED TO THAT THE DISTANCE TO THE "A" GATE, ALTHOUGH THERE'S A LITTLE EXCEPTION THERE. BUT JUST FOR PURPOSES OF ILLUSTRATION, ADDED UP THE DISTANCES TO EACH OF THE THREE GATES, AND -- AND, THEN, LET'S SEE, THEN DIVIDED BY THREE. IN OTHER WORDS, KIND OF LIKE AVERAGING THE DISTANCES FROM THOSE THREE GATES. BUT, THEN I PUT A WEIGHT ON EACH OF THOSE DISTANCES, AND I COUNTED THE DISTANCE TO THE "D" GATE MUCH MORE THAN THE DISTANCE TO THE "C" GATE, BECAUSE IT HAD A HIGHER LOAD OF PHOSPHORUS OVER THE YEARS. AND THE LOADS OF PHOSPHORUS THAT I HAD USED TO CALCULATE THAT WEIGHTED AVERAGE WERE THE ONES THAT WERE QUOTED IN THE SWIM PLAN AS THE TOTAL NUMBER OF TONS OF -- METRIC TONS OF PHOSPHORUS COMING IN EACH GATE DURING THE PERIOD OF -- I THINK IT WAS 1978 TO '89, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q. ALL RIGHT. WAS THIS YOUR IDEA? A. I THINK SO. YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE CONSTANTLY DISCUSSING THIS AMONG SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THE LAB, DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 334 BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK SO. Q. YOU DON'T THINK IT WAS ANYONE ELSE'S IDEA? YOU THINK YOU -- YOU -- YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DECIDED TO DO WEIGHTED DISTANCES? A. I BELIEVE SO. Q. YOU SEEM A LITTLE UNSURE. A. WELL, NO, I'M JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, NOT TO, YOU KNOW -- NOT TO EXCLUDE IF IT WAS ANYBODY ELSE'S IDEA--- Q. IF THEY WANT TO TAKE CREDIT--- A. ---AND I JUST DON'T REMEMBER. Q. ---YOU'LL LET THEM? A. RIGHT, YEAH, UH-HUH (YES). I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE THINGS, WE, WE TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS, AND THRASH THEM OUT, AND WE HAVE WEEKLY MEETINGS IN THE LAB, YOU KNOW, AS TO WHAT THE BEST APPROACH TO ALL THESE THINGS ARE. Q. HOW DID YOU DECIDE WHAT WEIGHT TO PLACE ON THE VARIOUS -- YOU SAID THAT YOU -- YOU ASCRIBED A WEIGHT. HOW DO YOU -- HOW DID YOU MAKE THAT DETERMINATION? A. THE WEIGHT IS BASED ON THE RELATIVE LOADS OF THE PHOSPHORUS THAT CAME THROUGH THE--- Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU TOLD ME DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 335 THAT, I'M SORRY. I APOLOGIZE. A. YEAH. Q. DID YOU WORK THIS OUT WITH ANYONE ELSE, OR DID YOU DO THIS ALL BY YOURSELF? A. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS ACTUALLY DOING THE CALCULATIONS, I THINK I JUST LOOKED UP THE LOADS IN THE SWIM PLAN--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---AND TOOK A MAP THAT HAD LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE ON IT, AND PLOTTED THE POINTS, ACCORDING TO THEIR LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE, ACCORDING TO LORAN-C. Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. AND THEN ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY MEASURED THE DISTANCES WITH A RULE, AND TYPED THEM INTO A LOTUS PROGRAM, AND ADDED THE WEIGHTS AND EVERYTHING. NOW, ONE EXCEPTION TO THAT WAS, SINCE WE NEVER SAW WATER FLOWING FROM THE S10 GATE TOWARDS THE "D" OR "C" TRANSECTS, WE THOUGHT THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE WEIGHTED SO MUCH -- YOU SHOULDN'T SAY -- WEIGHT D1 BY ITS DISTANCE FROM THE "A" GATE, BECAUSE NOT ONLY WAS THERE NOT MUCH PHOSPHORUS COMING THROUGH THERE, BUT ALSO IT WAS A LONG DISTANCE, AND IT SEEMED LIKE THAT THAT MADE THE DISTANCES TOO LARGE FOR THE "D" AND THE D1 AND C1 POINTS. SO, THAT'S DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 336 AN EXCEPTION TO THAT RULE. WE DID NOT ADD IN THE DISTANCES TO THE "A" GATE TO POINTS THAT WE WERE CONSIDERING ALONG THE "D" AND "C" TRANSECTS. Q. SO, THE -- OKAY, SO YOU'VE GOT LIKE A TWO-TIERED WEIGHTED SYSTEM? A. THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH. Q. ARE THERE ANY OTHER EXCEPTIONS? IT SOUNDS LIKE THE RULES OF GERMAN GRAMMAR TO ME--- A. RIGHT, YEAH. Q. ---AS I REMEMBER. A. YEAH. NO -- NO, IT'S JUST BASICALLY THAT I CAN IMAGINE THAT THIS POINT RIGHT HERE WOULD BE INFLUENCED BY -- POSSIBLY BY WATER COMING FROM HERE (MOTIONING TO DOCUMENT)--- Q. A4 WOULD BE--- A. ---HERE--- Q. ---INFLUENCED BY--- A. ---AND HERE, RIGHT. Q. ---D1--- A. YES. Q. ---AND C1? A. RIGHT. BUT I COULD NOT SEE THAT POINT D2, FOR EXAMPLE, SHOULD BE -- THAT ITS RELATIVE DISTANCE FROM THE HILLSBORO CANAL SHOULD BE BROUGHT DOWN, DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 337 BECAUSE IT IS SO FAR FROM THE "A" GATE, AND I JUST DIDN'T THINK THAT WATER WOULD BE FLOWING IN THAT DIRECTION. Q. IS PART OF THIS PROBLEM BECAUSE THE "A" TRANSECT IS SO CLOSE TO THE DIKE? A. WELL, IN THE SENSE. YEAH, THAT -- THAT THE "A" TRANSECT IS SO FAR FROM THE "D" AND "C" GATES. Q. OKAY. A. RIGHT, YEAH. THAT IT JUST SEEMED TO MAKE -- MAKE POINT D1 AND C1 SOUND LIKE THEY WERE TOO FAR FROM THE HILLSBORO CANAL, BASICALLY. Q. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU WERE TO REDESIGN THE TRANSECTS, YOU KNOW, LOOKING BACK, WOULD YOU DESIGN THEM MORE IN THE DIRECTION OF FLOW OF THE WATER? A. WELL, NO, I THINK THE TRANSECTS ARE IN -- IN JUST THE RIGHT PLACES, PARTICULARLY NORTH AND SOUTH, THEM BEING DIRECTLY SOUTH OF EACH OF THE THREE GATES. Q. WHAT IS SO SIGNIFICANT ABOUT BEING STRAIGHT NORTH TO STRAIGHT SOUTH? A. WELL, BECAUSE ACCORDING TO STEVE DAVIS, AND IN SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS WE HAD READ, THAT THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF WATER FLOW WAS FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 338 Q. BUT I THINK YOU KNOW AS A FACT NOW THAT'S NOT EXACTLY THE WAY IT FLOWS IN 2A. ISN'T THAT TRUE? A. RIGHT, IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT, RIGHT. Q. OKAY. SO, IF YOU WERE TO REDESIGN THIS, WOULDN'T YOU TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE FLOW OF THE WATER AND THE TOPOGRAPHY, AS OPPOSED TO JUST GOING NORTH TO SOUTH? A. OH, NO. I WOULD STILL STICK THEM, YOU KNOW, DIRECTLY SOUTH OF THE THREE GATES, BECAUSE THAT WAY YOU WOULD HAVE POINTS WHICH -- YOU KNOW, THAT PRETTY MUCH COVERS THAT ENTIRE AREA. BASICALLY WE'VE GOT A GRID, AT LEAST FOR THAT ZONE OF WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A. Q. I GUESS -- I GUESS THE OBVIOUS QUESTION IS KIND OF IF -- IF THE WATER GENERALLY FLOWS NORTH TO THE SOUTH, WHY DO YOU NEED TO WEIGHT THE DISTANCES? A. OH, BECAUSE -- OKAY, IF -- IF THIS WATER IS FLOWING FROM THE "D" GATE, MORE OR LESS, STRAIGHT SOUTH--- Q. IS THAT THE WAY YOU BELIEVE IT FLOWS? A. NO, I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT VARIES A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAT. I DON'T THINK IT'S--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 339 A. ---NECESSARILY ALWAYS STRAIGHT SOUTH. I THINK THAT AT TIMES, IN FACT, THAT IT'S NOT AT ALL STRAIGHT SOUTH--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---BUT, YOU KNOW, AS THE BEST WE CAN DO ON A GRADIENT STUDY, YOU KNOW, JUST THE FACT THAT POINT D1 IS MUCH CLOSER TO WHERE MOST OF THE PHOSPHORUS CAME OUT, OBVIOUSLY YOU WOULD WANT TO EXPRESS D1 AS BEING A SHORTER DISTANCE THAN YOU WOULD, SAY, C1, IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE THIS LOAD WEIGHTED APPROACH, BECAUSE IT'S CLOSER TO THE GATE WHERE MOST OF THE PHOSPHORUS CAME OUT. Q. COULD YOU -- COULD YOU HAVE USED A DYE TO DETERMINE FLOW PATTERNS THROUGH 2A? A. NO, BECAUSE THE -- IT'S SUCH A HUGE AREA, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SEVERAL KILOMETERS OVER THERE, AND IT WOULD JUST TAKE TONS OF DYE, YOU KNOW, TO PUT IN THERE, AND THEN TO BE ABLE--- Q. A MESSY PROCESS? A. VERY MESSY, YEAH. AND--- MR. McCAUGHAN: RED DYE, NUMBER ONE. A. ---YEAH, WE DID -- WE DID ALWAYS MAKE JUST QUALITATIVE OBSERVATIONS OF CURRENT FLOW WHENEVER WE WERE THERE. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 340 Q. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT 220. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, SORT OF MID FIRST PARAGRAPH, "FURTHERMORE, WE DO NOT SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF AN AEROBIC ZONE OF A FEW MILLIMETERS EXTENDING INTO THE SEDIMENTS." A. YES, WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO THERE IS THAT IT'S A CLASSICAL PHENOMENON IN TEMPERATE LAKES, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY OUT HERE IN JORDAN LAKE, WHICH -- WELL, I GUESS Y'ALL WOULDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JORDAN LAKE SINCE YOU'RE FROM FLORIDA -- BUT IN A LOT OF LAKES, YOU'LL HAVE AN AEROBIC ZONE THAT EXTENDS JUST A FEW MILLIMETERS INTO THE SOIL--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---AND BECAUSE THE IRON IN THAT AREA IS THEN OXIDIZED, IN THAT LITTLE OXIDIZED ZONE, IT ALMOST SERVES AS A BARRIER TO PHOSPHORUS RE-DIFFUSING BACK INTO THE SEDIMENTS, BECAUSE THAT IRON WILL PRECIPITATE THAT PHOSPHORUS, AS IT'S TRYING TO DIFFUSE BACK UP INTO THE WATER COLUMN. AND WE JUST SAW NO EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN THE SEDIMENTS OF WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A. Q. COULD A -- COULD A BENTHIC ALGAL MAT CREATE SUCH A ZONE? A. WELL, I DON'T REALLY KNOW, BUT I WOULD JUST GUESS THAT -- AND THIS IS ALSO A PROBLEM IN OTHER LAKES, DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 341 IS WHEN YOU DO HAVE A BENTHIC ALGAL MAT, YOU MAY HAVE HIGH OXYGEN CONCENTRATIONS AT ITS SURFACE, BUT UNDER THAT MAT, IT SOMETIMES IS EVEN MORE ANAEROBIC, BECAUSE OF THE RESPIRATION OF THE ALGAE ITSELF. Q. UH-HUH (YES). UH-HUH (YES). A. AND THAT'S BEEN SHOWN IN SOME WORK BY SOME DANISH SCIENTISTS, BEAU BARKER JORGENSON. Q. DONE IN DENMARK? A. NO. ACTUALLY SOME OF THEM WERE DONE IN -- SOME OF THE STUDIES WERE DONE IN ISRAEL. Q. OH, ALL RIGHT. I'D LIKE TO ASK -- WHAT I REALLY WAS DRIVING AT WAS GETTING ON TO THE NEXT SENTENCE. "HOWEVER, THE VERY LOW CONTENT OF INORGANIC IRON COMPOUNDS IN THESE SOILS, MAKES THE OXIDATION STATE OF IRON A MUCH LESS IMPORTANT FACTOR IN PHOSPHORUS CYCLING IN THESE PEAT SOILS, THAN IT IS IN SOILS WITH A HIGHER MINERAL CONTENT." AND THEN READING THE NEXT SENTENCE, THEN I HAVE QUESTION, "THERE MAY BE A TENDENCY FOR THE BOUNDARY OF THE HIGHLY REDUCED ZONE TO EXTEND SOMEWHAT FURTHER ABOVE THE SOIL/WATER SURFACE IN AREAS DOMINATED BY CATTAIL, THAN IN AREAS DOMINATED BY SAWGRASS." AND I GUESS MY QUESTION DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 342 TO YOU IS WHAT EFFECTS DO YOU THINK THIS HAS ON THE BIOLOGICAL COMMUNITY? A. YOU MEAN THE PART ABOUT THE--- Q. THE TOP PART, RIGHT. A. THE LAST PART, AGAIN, PLEASE? Q. THE LAST PART, I WAS JUST READING YOU THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THE FOLLOWING AREA, BUT MY QUESTION REALLY STARTED FURTHER MORE DOWN THROUGH HIGHLY -- HIGHER MINERAL CONTENT. A. OH, OKAY, THE THING ABOUT THE HIGHER MINERAL CONTENT IS THAT BECAUSE THERE'S A LOW CONCENTRATION OF IRON AND ALUMINUM--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---WE'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT FACTORS IN THE EVERGLADES, THAN WE WOULD IN A LOT OF OTHER WETLANDS WITH HIGHLY MINERAL SOILS. AND SOME OF CURT'S WORK HAS SHOWN THAT IN THE PAST, THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A WETLANDS WITH A HIGH MINERAL SOIL CONTENT, YOU PROBABLY HAVE HIGH IRON AND ALUMINUM. AND THE IRON AND ALUMINUM SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE MAJOR FACTORS IN BINDING THE PHOSPHORUS. IN THE EVERGLADES, THOUGH, WE HAVE VERY LITTLE IRON AND ALUMINUM, AND SO OTHER FACTORS TAKE OVER. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 343 Q. UH-HUH (YES). SO, YOU DON'T THINK THAT THIS PARTICULAR FACTOR HAS ANYTHING -- ANY EFFECT ON THE BIOLOGICAL COMMUNITIES. IS THAT YOUR ANSWER? A. THERE IS A SMALL AMOUNT OF IRON AND ALUMINUM THERE. Q. RIGHT. A. AND THERE IS A SMALL IRON AND ALUMINUM PHOSPHATE CONCENTRATION, SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT DOES HAVE SOME. Q. RIGHT. A. BUT IT'S MUCH, MUCH LESS THAN IN OTHER TYPES OF SOIL. Q. OKAY. ON 229, "INORGANIC NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS IN SURFACE AND PORE WATER," DID YOU EXAMINE ANY TOTAL PHOSPHORUS WITH ORTHOPHOSPHATE WITH DISTANCE -- VERSUS ORTHOPHOSPHATE WITH DISTANCE? DID YOU DO THAT COMPARISON? A. TOTAL PHOSPHORUS? Q. VERSUS -- VERSUS ORTHOPHOSPHATE WITH DISTANCE. A. YES, IN FACT, IF YOU'LL LOOK AT THE GRAPH ON PAGE -- SOMEWHERE WAY BACK THERE AS YOU GET TO PARTICULATE NUTRIENTS, YEAH. IT'S ON PAGE 257, AND IT'S A GRAPH CALLED "PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS IN DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 344 SURFACE WATER." Q. OKAY. A. AND, SEE, I HAVEN'T GRAPHED IT ANYWHERE AS TOTAL PHOSPHORUS--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---VERSUS DISTANCE. Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. AND THAT'S BECAUSE I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO EXPRESS THE STANDARDS, AND EXPRESS SOME OF THE POSSIBLE INTERACTIONS, BECAUSE ORTHOPHOSPHATE IS SO MUCH MORE AVAILABLE TO ALGAE AND PLANTS THAN THIS PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE DOING THESE THINGS AT THE RESEARCH LEVEL, WE ALWAYS NEED TO SEPARATE THOSE TWO. THIS PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS COULD SIMPLY BE A LITTLE BIT OF PEAT WHICH IS BEING STIRRED UP INTO THE WATER COLUMN, OR SOME ALGAE AND PERIPHYTON WHICH IS BROKEN OFF OF THE CATTAIL AND SAWGRASS NEARBY, AND IT'S JUST SIMPLY FLOATING IN THE WATER -- BACTERIA AND MICROBES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. Q. ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT THE STANDARDS THAT EXIST IN THE SWIM PLAN SHOULD NOT BE STATED IN TERMS OF TOTAL PHOSPHORUS, IN YOUR OPINION? DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 345 MR. NETTLETON: OBJECT TO THE FORM. WITNESS: WELL, SHOULD I ANSWER THAT? MS. PONZOLI: YES. YES, YOU SHOULD. A. WELL, I BELIEVE THAT IT SHOULD BE BROKEN DOWN, AND THAT PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS SHOULD NOT BE LUMPED WITH ORTHOPHOSPHATE. Q. DOES DR. RICHARDSON SHARE YOUR OPINION? A. AND I THINK -- YEAH, YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK HIM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK HE -- FROM MY CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM -- I THINK THAT HE WOULD AGREE THAT, AT LEAST AT THE RESEARCH LEVEL, WE NEED TO SEPARATELY CONSIDER THOSE TWO SEPARATE FORMS, BECAUSE THEY ARE -- THEY'RE SUBJECT TO SOME VERY DIFFERENT DYNAMICS. Q. OKAY. ARE YOU -- ARE YOU -- LET ME JUST ASK YOU. THIS OCCURRED TO ME IN READING YOUR WORK LAST NIGHT. ARE YOU LOOKING -- WOULD YOU WANT LIKE THREE SEPARATE STANDARDS FOR PHOSPHORUS, OR TWO OR MORE? MR. GREEN: OBJECTION TO THE--- MR. BURGESS: OBJECTION TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. MR. GREEN: ---TO THE FORM. MS. PONZOLI: OF THE QUESTION. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 346 MR. GREEN: ARE YOU ASKING FOR A LEGAL CONCLUSION, OR JUST -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY I'M OBJECTING. MR. BURGESS: MY OBJECTION IS THAT HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING THAT HE WANTS, AND YOU'RE IMPLYING THAT HE WANTS SOMETHING. MS. PONZOLI: OKAY. MR. BURGESS: AND I'M OBJECTING TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. MS. PONZOLI: ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD, DR. QUALLS? A. YEAH, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE, YOU KNOW, WHAT FORM I WOULD -- I WOULD -- I WOULD THINK SHOULD BE SET AS ACTUAL WATER QUALITY STANDARDS--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF DISADVANTAGES TO JUST CONSIDERING TOTAL PHOSPHORUS AS A LUMP SUM, ONE OF WHICH IS THAT I BELIEVE THAT SOME OF THE -- THERE'S BEEN PROBABLY SOME SAMPLING PROBLEMS IN SAMPLING TOTAL PHOSPHORUS, WHERE WHOEVER IS SAMPLING IS GETTING A LOT MORE PARTICLES IN THE SAMPLES, THAN IS PROBABLY ACTUALLY SUSPENDED IN THE WATER. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 347 Q. WELL, YOU'VE MENTIONED THAT ONE BEFORE, BUT IT SEEMED TO ME THIS MORNING WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MEASURING ENRICHMENT -- AND I DON'T MEAN TO MISSTATE YOU, I'M JUST TRYING TO RECALL A LONG TIME AGO IN MY MIND -- WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE AS A BIOASSAY FOR ENRICHMENT. A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND I THINK YOU SAID IT WOULD BE EASIER JUST TO MEASURE, DIDN'T YOU SAY, TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IN THE--- A. YEAH, TOTAL PHOSPHORUS--- Q. ---SURFACE WATER? A. NO. TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IN THE SOIL. Q. IN THE SOIL? A. RIGHT. Q. OKAY. A. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE THE SOIL, IF IT HAS BEEN ENRICHED, WOULD SHOW YOU WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING OVER A LONGER TIME. IT COULD BE THAT JUST THE DAY YOU HAPPEN TO BE THERE, MAYBE MICROBIAL ACTIVITY IS DEPRESSED BECAUSE IT'S COLD--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY IT GOT DOWN AND IT WAS DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 348 UNUSUALLY COLD THAT NIGHT, WELL, I WOULD IMAGE MICROBIAL ACTIVITY WOULD BE CUT DOWN. SO, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THINGS WHICH HAPPEN -- WHICH INTEGRATE THINGS OVER A LONGER TERM, THAN SOME OF THESE VERY TEMPORAL THINGS. Q. WELL, I THINK I'M -- WE'RE MISUNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER, AND IT'S OBVIOUSLY MY FAULT. I'M TALKING ABOUT -- IT SEEMED TO ME SOMEHOW YOU WERE IMPLYING THAT -- AND MAYBE I'M WRONG -- THAT THE STANDARD SET IN THE SWIM PLAN FOR SURFACE WATER TOTAL PHOSPHORUS MIGHT NOT BE THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO SET -- TO MEASURE WATER QUALITY STANDARDS. WAS THAT IMPLICATION IN--- A. YES. Q. ---IN YOUR DISCUSSION? A. YES, YES, I THINK THAT, YEAH, TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IS PROBABLY NOT THE BEST WAY TO EXPRESS WATER QUALITY STANDARDS, YES. Q. OKAY. THEN I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, AS THE BEST WAY TO EXPRESS WATER QUALITY STANDARDS? A. I WOULD THINK THAT EXPRESSING IN TERMS OF ORTHOPHOSPHATE WOULD PROBABLY BE BETTER. Q. IN SURFACE WATER? DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 349 A. RIGHT. Q. OKAY. AND THE REASONS? A. AND--- Q. AND I KNOW YOU'VE GONE THROUGH THIS PROBABLY--- A. YEAH, RIGHT. Q. ---FOURTEEN TIMES WITH ME, BUT IF YOU COULD JUST RECAP FOR ME ONE LAST TIME. A. AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS IN THE SURFACE WATER CAN IN SOME CASES BE MORE SUBJECT TO SAMPLING ARTIFACTS. IN OTHER WORDS, THE PERSON COLLECTING THE SAMPLE HAS TO WADE UP AND TAKE THE SAMPLE AND STIR UP THINGS ON THE BOTTOM. AND, SECONDLY, BECAUSE THE ORTHOPHOSPHATE IS SO MUCH MORE AVAILABLE TO PLANTS AND ALGAE, THAT I DON'T THINK YOU CAN REALLY COMPARE, SAY, A WATER SAMPLE WHERE YOU HAVE A HUNDRED MICROGRAMS PER LITER PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS, AND TEN MICROGRAMS PER LITER ORTHOPHOSPHATE--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---YOU CAN'T COMPARE THAT WITH ANOTHER SAMPLE, WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE A HUNDRED MICROGRAMS PER LITER AND TEN THE OPPOSITE WAY. Q. ALL RIGHT. DOES THE DATA BASE EXIST IN THAT FORM, IN THE FORM THAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING, THE DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 350 ORTHOPHOSPHATE FORM? DO YOU THINK THERE'S A DATA BASE, HISTORICAL DATA BASE THAT'S SUFFICIENT? A. SO FAR AS I KNOW, I THINK THAT THE EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK HAS DONE THE TWO ANALYSES SEPARATELY, FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE APPENDIX OF THE SWIM PLAN--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---I SAW SOME AVERAGES FOR WATER -- WATER QUALITY IN THE EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK, AND I THINK THEY HAD ORTHOPHOSPHATES SEPARATED FROM TOTAL PHOSPHORUS THERE. AND THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT SEEMS TO HAVE DONE IT ONLY FOR A MORE LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME. Q. SO THERE MIGHT BE A DATA BASE PROBLEM IN THAT REGARD? A. THAT MIGHT BE TRUE--- Q. OKAY. A. ---FOR--- Q. IS THERE AN EASE OF--- A. ---AT LEAST FOR THE NORTHERN EVERGLADES. Q. IS THERE AN EASE OF THE TESTING? AND I DON'T HONESTLY KNOW THAT ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION. IS THERE--- A. OH, YEAH, ORTHOPHOSPHATE'S ACTUALLY MUCH EASIER. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 351 Q. MUCH EASIER? A. YEAH. Q. OKAY. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW HOW FAST ORTHOPHOSPHORUS CYCLES IN THE WATER AT BACKGROUND PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS? A. OH, I WOULD SAY IT PROBABLY CYCLES FAIRLY QUICKLY--- Q. UH-HUH (YES). A. ---AND I KNOW THAT THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT IN DEEP WATER LAKES, THINGS ARE EXPRESSED IN TERMS OF TOTAL PHOSPHORUS, AND THAT IS BECAUSE THERE IS A CYCLING GOING ON. THAT'S THE ONLY PHOSPHORUS AVAILABLE TO THOSE ORGANISMS THERE. BUT IN THE EVERGLADES, TYPICALLY, YOU HAVE WATER DEPTHS ABOUT THIS DEEP. (WITNESS MOTIONING.) Q. ABOUT WHAT, FOUR OR FIVE INCHES, YOU'RE INDICATING? A. YEAH, YEAH, FOUR OR FIVE INCHES, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES A FOOT, SOMETIMES TWO FEET--- Q. OKAY. A. ---BUT -- BUT THE POINT IS THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU KNOW, KILOGRAMS OF PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS, MAYBE TEN CENTIMETERS AWAY. SO I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THAT DIFFERS ALL THAT MUCH FROM HAVING A LITTLE DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 352 BIT OF PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS SUSPENDED IN THE WATER COLUMN WHEN YOU HAVE TONS OF PARTICULATE PHOSPHORUS JUST A FEW CENTIMETERS AWAY AND BASICALLY COATING ALL THE CATTAIL LEAVES AND ALL THE OTHER ORGANISMS. AND THE REASON IT'S EXPRESSED AS TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IN LAKES, IS BECAUSE LAKES ARE SO ISOLATED FROM THE BOTTOM, AND WAY UP IN THE HYPOLIMNION, OR THE ACTIVE PART OF THE LAKE. IT'S OFTEN FAIRLY WELL STRATIFIED AND SEPARATED FROM ITS BOTTOM. AND I THINK THAT'S THE MAIN REASON PEOPLE LIKE TO STICK WITH TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IN LAKES. AND I THINK TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IS ALSO APPLICABLE IN SITUATIONS WHERE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN A LAKE, YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT HOW MUCH TOTAL LOAD OF PHOSPHORUS IS COMING INTO THAT LAKE, BECAUSE MOST OF IT SETTLES OUT ONTO THE BOTTOM AND IT'S TRAPPED. IT CAN ULTIMATELY BE RECYCLED THERE. AND I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, A LEGITIMATE WATER QUALITY STANDARD FOR LAKES, BUT I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT IT'S QUITE AS GOOD OR QUITE AS APPLICABLE IN THE EVERGLADES, A REALLY SHALLOW WATER SYSTEM. MS. PONZOLI: OKAY. I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE JUST ABOUT FIVE MINUTES AND MAKE DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 353 SURE I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, AND I THINK I'M FINISHED. (THEREUPON, A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) MS. PONZOLI: DR. QUALLS, I THINK THAT COMPLETES THE UNITED STATES' EXAMINATION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU'VE BEEN -- YOU'VE BEEN HELPFUL. WITNESS: OKAY, THANKS. EXAMINATION BY MR. NETTLETON: Q. DR. QUALLS, MY NAME IS PAUL NETTLETON. I REPRESENT THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT. I'M GOING TO TRY TO FILL IN SOME GAPS IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF THIS THING. A. YEAH. Q. I APOLOGIZE. I WILL TRY NOT TO BE REPETITIVE, AND IF I DO, I'M TRYING TO MOVE THROUGH THIS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. A. OKAY, YEAH. Q. FIRST OF ALL, COULD YOU TELL ME, IN YOUR OPINION, WOULD ANY FACTOR THAT CHANGED THE AMOUNT OF U.V. RADIATION REACHING THE WATER COLUMN SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECT THE RELATIVE AMOUNTS OF VARIOUS PHOSPHORUS SPECIES IN THE WATER COLUMN? DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 354 A. I THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE MUCH LESS INFLUENCE ON THE PHOSPHORUS SPECIES IN THE EVERGLADES THAN IT WOULD IN A LAKE WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF IRON, BECAUSE THERE'S A WHOLE KIND OF CYCLING OF IRON, PHOSPHORUS, HUMIC COMPLEXES THAT GOES ON IN PARTICULARLY ACID BOG LAKES IN OTHER AREAS, WHICH WOULD NOT REALLY BE APPLICABLE IN THE EVERGLADES, BECAUSE THERE'S -- THE IRON IS SO LOW IN THE WATER, GENERALLY. AND, SO FAR, I HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN ABLE TO DETECT MUCH EFFECT ON BREAK DOWN OF ORGANIC PHOSPHORUS BY THE U.V. LIGHT--- Q. BUT IF--- A. ---SO, YOU KNOW, I'D REALLY HAVE TO RESERVE JUDGMENT ON THAT RIGHT NOW. Q. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT DIRECT EFFECT OF U.V. LIGHT, WAS THAT WHAT YOU WERE DISCUSSING? A. YEAH, A DIRECT EFFECT, RIGHT. Q. OKAY. WHAT ABOUT THE -- THE EFFECT IF THE -- THE I GUESS I -- I'M TRYING TO THINK IN MY OWN MIND IF I'VE GOT IT BACKWARDS MAYBE. IS IT THE LACK OF THE U.V. RADIATION WHICH -- WHICH IS -- WHICH COINCIDES WITH THE IRON IN THE LAKES, WHICH CREATES SITUATIONS THERE THAT DON'T EXIST IN THE EVERGLADES? DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 355 A. RIGHT. WELL, IT'S THE LACK OF THE IRON IN THE EVERGLADES THAT MAKES THAT WHOLE CYCLING MECHANISM LESS IMPORTANT IN THE EVERGLADES. Q. OKAY. A. IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE EVERGLADES HAD A LOT MORE IRON IN THE WATER, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE AN IMPORTANT MECHANISM. Q. DO YOU CONSIDER THE PRESENCE OF A NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT GRADIENT A CHANGE IN THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM? A. THE PRESENCE OF A NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT GRADING? YES, OBVIOUSLY, I THINK, YOU KNOW, A CHANGE AT THE NORTHERN END OF THOSE TRANSECTS, I THINK OBVIOUSLY THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE. WE CAN SEE THAT UNDERLYING THOSE SURFICIAL AREAS OF CATTAIL PEAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN SEE WHAT LOOKS TO US LIKE SAWGRASS PEAT UNDER THERE, AND THE CHANGE IN THE LAYERS CORRESPONDS MORE OR LESS TO THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS. Q. WOULD YOU CONSIDER THAT A FUNCTIONALLY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE? A. YES. Q. WE WERE DISCUSS -- ON PAGE 196 OF THE ANNUAL REPORT IN CHAPTER SIX, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 356 EARLIER ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF EQUILIBRIUM. A. RIGHT, YES. Q. AND I BELIEVE YOU STATED, WHEN MS. PONZOLI WAS ASKING YOU ESSENTIALLY TO GIVE A DEFINITION OF EQUILIBRIUM WITH REGARD TO WCA-2A, THAT YOU DIDN'T FEEL YOU COULD DO THAT? A. RIGHT, YES, BECAUSE I FEEL THAT EQUILIBRIUM IS TOO GENERAL A TERM. WE, YOU KNOW, WE'D HAVE TO DEFINE EQUILIBRIUM WITH RESPECT TO WHAT--- Q. WELL, HOW ARE YOU--- A. ---PLANT POPULATIONS--- Q. OKAY. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID LAST TIME--- A. YEAH. Q. ---BUT MY QUESTION THEN IS HOW ARE YOU USING THE TERM HERE ON PAGE 196 WHERE IT APPEARS? A. OH, ON PAGE 196. OKAY. (THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.) A. OKAY, IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE, I WAS USING IT IN A VERY GENERAL SENSE TO INDICATE THAT IT WAS -- IT WAS A SYSTEM. IT WAS TEMPORARILY CUT OFF FROM THE INPUT OF THESE NUTRIENTS, AND WE THOUGHT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE SYSTEM AS THE NUTRIENTS WERE CUT OFF. AND I WOULD JUST THINK IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE TO TRY TO READ TOO DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 357 MUCH INTO MY USE OF THE WORD EQUILIBRIUM THERE BASICALLY. I WAS USING IT IN A VERY, VERY GENERALIZED, IMPRECISE SENSE THERE. SO, YOU KNOW, I'D PREFER NOT TO MAKE ANY, LIKE, YOU KNOW, REALLY SPECIFIC DEFINITIONS OF EQUILIBRIUM IN THAT PARTICULAR SENTENCE. IT MAY NOT EVEN HAVE BEEN THE BEST WORD TO USE THERE, BECAUSE WHAT I WAS REALLY TRYING TO EXPRESS THERE WAS BEGINNING TO SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WHEN THE SOURCE OF NUTRIENTS WERE CUT OFF FOR ONE YEAR. Q. ON THE NEXT PAGE, 197, THE SENTENCE CONTINUING ON 198 TALKS ABOUT THE "WIDESPREAD CONCERN," AND I WON'T GO THROUGH WITH READING IT, BUT IF YOU COULD TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND JUST TELL ME IF YOU THINK THAT'S A VALID CONCERN? A. THAT'S PAGE 198, WHERE? Q. 197 TO 198, THAT SENTENCE. A. OH, 197. OKAY, YEAH, I THINK WE WENT THROUGH THESE -- THESE THREE CONCERNS HERE, (i)--- Q. RIGHT. A. -- (ii) AND (iii), YEAH. Q. WELL, THE NEXT SENTENCE REFERENCES THAT, "THERE IS WIDESPREAD CONCERN THAT WITH CONTINUED INFLUX OF NUTRIENT-LADEN WATERS, THE PURPORTED PROBLEMS DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 358 IN THE NUTRIENT-ENRICHED AREAS WILL WORSEN..." AND THEN IT GOES ON. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT -- IN YOUR OPINION, IS THAT A VALID CONCERN? A. YEAH, I THINK IT IS A VALID CONCERN THAT CONCEIVABLY WITH CONTINUED INFLUX OF NUTRIENT-LADEN WATER, THAT SOME PROBLEMS IN THE NUTRIENT-ENRICHED AREAS MIGHT WORSEN. I THINK IT'S A VALID CONCERN BUT -- BUT I WOULDN'T GO SO FAR AS TO SAY WHETHER WE KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THE AREA OF CATTAILS IS NOW EXPANDING. I DON'T THINK WE KNOW THAT FOR SURE. WE KNOW IT'S EXPANDED IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, FROM SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT DATA FROM EARLIER SURVEYS. BUT, RIGHT NOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE KNOW IT'S CURRENTLY EXPANDING. Q. IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 198, YOU TALK ABOUT THE LONG HISTORY OF NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT. WHAT'S YOUR DEFINITION OF LONG HISTORY--- A. WELL--- Q. ---OR WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? A. ---WELL, BASICALLY THE PAST TWENTY-FIVE TO THIRTY YEARS, WHEN, I GUESS BACK PUMPING -- FROM WHEN THERE WAS A LOT OF WATER PUMPED DOWN THE HILLSBORO CANAL. DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 359 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CONDITION WAS PRIOR TO TWENTY-FIVE OR THIRTY YEARS AGO, AS FAR AS NUTRIENTS ENTERING THE EVERGLADES? A. NO, NOT SPECIFICALLY. YOU KNOW, BUT ACCORDING TO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE EARLY AUTHORS THAT -- THAT, YOU KNOW, THE AREA WAS CLEARED FOR AGRICULTURE, YOU KNOW, APPARENTLY IT WAS A LOW NUTRIENT AREA--- Q. DO YOU RE -- DO YOU KNOW--- A. ---BUT, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS ANY RECORDS OF NUTRIENT INPUTS INTO THE EVERGLADES AREA, I'M NOT REALLY AWARE OF ANYTHING VERY EARLY. Q. WELL, MORE THAN TWENTY-FIVE OR THIRTY YEARS AGO? A. I DON'T KNOW REALLY ANYTHING ABOUT MORE THAN TWENTY-FIVE OR THIRTY YEARS AGO. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE LAND WAS CLEARED FOR AGRICULTURAL USE? A. I BELIEVE IT CONTINUED OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. I BELIEVE THAT SOME OF THE DRAINAGE BEGAN IN THE VERY, VERY LATE 1800'S, AND CONTINUED OVER A PERIOD OF MANY YEARS, AND THAT A LOT OF THE CURRENT CANAL SYSTEM WAS COMPLETED MORE OR LESS IN THE GENERAL AREA OF THE 1950 OR SO, SOMETIME IN THAT GENERAL AREA. I'M NOT SURE OF THE EXACT DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 360 DATES, AND I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT HISTORY. Q. DO YOU RECALL WHERE YOUR SOURCE OF INFORMATION IS FOR WHAT YOU ARE RECALLING? A. YES, I BELIEVE IT'S MOST LIKELY THE RECORDS AT SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT FROM WHEN THEY STARTED COLLECTING DATA AROUND IN -- I'D SAY THE REPORTS OF GLEASON, ET AL. -- IN THE EARLY SEVENTIES. I BELIEVE THEY WERE ALREADY FINDING SOME FAIRLY HIGH CONCENTRATIONS OF PHOSPHORUS IN THAT AREA. Q. THE NEXT SENTENCE IN THAT PARAGRAPH REFERS -- STATES THAT SHORT-TERM -- FOR PHOSPHORUS, "SHORT-TERM EXPERIMENTS ARE NOT ADEQUATE TO SHOW THE LONG-TERM DYNAMICS OF PHOSPHORUS." CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THAT MEANS? A. YES. THAT'S BECAUSE -- LET'S SAY WE HAD AN EXPERIMENT THAT ONLY LASTED TWO OR THREE WEEKS, AT FIRST THE PHOSPHORUS WOULD GO INTO THE MICROBIAL BIOMASS, BE TAKEN UP FIRST BY ADSORPTION IN THE MICROBIAL BIOMASS. YOU KNOW, IT WOULD TAKE IT A WHILE TO KIND OF RUN THROUGH THE CYCLE AND GRADUALLY BE DEPOSITED IN THE FORM OF THE MORE REFRACTORY FORMS OF PHOSPHORUS. SO, IF WE, SAY, TOOK A LITTLE MICROCOSM OF UNENRICHED EVERGLADES DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 361 SOIL, SAY, FROM WATER CONSERVATION AREA 3A, OR EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK SOMEWHERE, AND WE JUST BEGAN PUTTING PHOSPHORUS INTO IT, WE WOULDN'T REALLY BE ABLE TO TELL WHERE THE LONG-TERM DEPOSITION OF PHOSPHORUS WAS OCCURRING, PROBABLY FOR YEARS, UNTIL THE PLANTS HAD A CHANCE TO TAKE ALL THIS UP, DIE, AND FOR IT TO BE TURNED INTO HUMIC MATTER. Q. OKAY. YOU GO ON IN THAT SENTENCE TO STATE THAT THE "MICROBIAL UPTAKE AND PHYSICO-CHEMICAL" -- DID I SAY THAT RIGHT? A. YEAH. Q. "ADSORPTION CAPACITY CAN BE SATURATED AFTER SEVERAL YEARS." IN YOUR OPINION, IS THAT THE CASE? DOES THAT ACTUALLY OCCUR? A. I THINK THAT THAT OCCURS, PARTICULARLY -- THAT'S, TO A LARGE EXTENT, BASED ON CURT RICHARDSON, AND SOME OF THE DATA FROM OTHER PEOPLE THAT HE HAS SUMMARIZED IN THOSE TWO ARTICLES THERE, RICHARDSON 1985; RICHARDSON AND MARSHALL, 1986. AND THAT REFERS TO WETLANDS AND OTHER SYSTEMS THAT DON'T ACCRETE PEAT. IN THE EVERGLADES, YOU'VE GOT A DIFFERENT SITUATION HERE, WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY LAYING DOWN A LAYER OF PEAT EVERY YEAR, AND WHERE DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 362 THE ADSORPTION CAPACITY THOUGH IS FAIRLY LOW, BUT WE ARE LAYING DOWN PEAT. Q. WELL, DO YOU THINK THAT CONDITION PRESENTLY EXISTS IN WCA-2A, THE ENRICHED AREA? A. NO, I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S SATURATED, IF WE USE THE DEFINITION OF SATURATION AS WHEN THE INPUT EQUALS THE OUTPUT. AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT, STILL, THAT THE OUTPUT OF PHOSPHORUS FROM WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A DOES NOT EQUAL THE INPUT YET. THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THAT WOULD DESCRIBE THE CONDITIONS IN SOME SMALLER AREAS OF WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A, BUT WE CAN'T REALLY DETERMINE THAT RIGHT NOW. BUT AS LONG AS YOU'RE LAYING DOWN A LAYER OF PEAT EVERY YEAR WITH PHOSPHORUS IN IT, ACCORDING TO MY DEFINITION OF SATURATION, IT'S NOT SATURATED. AND EVEN IN THE MOST ENRICHED AREAS, D1, C1 AND A1, WE'RE STILL LAYING DOWN A LAYER OF PEAT EVERY YEAR. Q. SO, EVEN IN THOSE AREAS, YOU WOULD NOT CONSIDER IT SATURATED AT THIS POINT? A. RIGHT, I WOULDN'T CONSIDER IT SATURATED. (THEREUPON, MR. NETTLETON REVIEWS NOTES.) MR. NETTLETON: I APOLOGIZE IF I TAKE SOME TIME--- DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 363 WITNESS: OH SURE, YEAH. MR. NETTLETON: ---BUT I'M SKIPPING OVER THINGS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN COVERED. WITNESS: SURE. Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) IN -- UNDER -- ON PAGE 199 UNDER "APPLICATIONS"--- A. UH-HUH (YES). Q. ---YOU DISCUSSED THE USE OF OBJECTIVES (i), (ii) AND (iii)--- A. RIGHT. Q. ---IN COMBINATION WITH THE FERTILIZER AND GRADIENT STUDIES. A. YES, UH-HUH (YES). Q. AND THEN YOU STATE THAT, "WE CAN THEN INFER THE AREA OVER WHICH THESE LEVELS OF NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT CAN SPREAD OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME." HAVE YOU MADE THAT INFERENCE, AT THIS POINT, OF WHAT THAT AREA IS? A. YEAH. NOW, THE CALCULATION OF THE AREA, I THINK THE PERSON YOU NEED TO ASK ABOUT THAT IS MAINLY, YOU KNOW, CHRIS CRAFT AND CURT, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING MORE WITH THE PHOSPHORUS ACCRETION DATA, AND THE PHOSPHORUS ACCRETION DATA DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 364 IS REALLY THE KEY TO CALCULATING THAT PARTICULAR AREA. Q. WELL, IS THAT THE AREA THAT WAS DISCUSSED EARLIER TODAY THAT'S SET FORTH IN THE END OF ONE OF THESE CHAPTERS? A. YES, YEAH, YEAH. AND NOW THAT WAS LIKE A PRELIMINARY CALCULATION BASED ON THE DATA AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME; AND, IN FACT, WITH SOME MORE RECENTLY AVAILABLE DATA, THAT MIGHT CHANGE SLIGHTLY. Q. HOW IS IT GOING TO CHANGE? A. I'M NOT REALLY SURE. IT'S JUST -- I'M JUST SAYING THAT, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT SINCE THAT PAPER WAS WRITTEN, SOME MORE CORES HAVE BEEN DATED, AND THEY'RE, I THINK IN THIS -- YOU KNOW, I THINK IN THIS REPORT, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE UP-TO-DATE DATA, AND I DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY IT'S GOING TO CHANGE IT. Q. THERE'S MORE UP-TO-DATE DATA SINCE THIS REPORT WAS PREPARED, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? A. NO, NO, I'M SAYING THAT I WROTE THIS REPORT WAY BACK IN -- BASICALLY WAY BACK IN FEBRUARY, AND THEN I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY SENT IN SOMETIME AROUND MARCH IN 19 -- 1992. AND SINCE THAT TIME, DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 365 YOU KNOW, I THINK SUMMARIZED IN THIS REPORT, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE UP-TO-DATE DATA. Q. OKAY. THE REPORT YOU'RE REFERRING TO AS SENDING IN, I DON'T RECALL IF IT'S THIS CHAPTER OR ONE OF THE OTHER CHAPTERS--- A. OH, YOU KNOW--- Q. ---BUT IT'S--- A. ---I THINK IT'S THE CHAPTER, YOU KNOW, ON PHOSPHORUS ACCRETION HERE--- Q. OKAY. A. ---WHICH COMES RIGHT AFTER IT. Q. OKAY. A. AND THAT ESTIMATE WILL HAVE TO BE UPDATED WHEN THIS PAPER IS REVISED AGAIN. Q. ON PAGE 200, THE -- THE END OF THAT SECTION REFERS TO "OBJECTIVE (iv) WILL BE USEFUL, ALONG WITH THE INVERTEBRATE COMMUNITY ANALYSIS, IN INDICATING ANY DETRIMENTAL EFFECTS OF CATTAIL INVASION." HAS THAT ANALYSIS BEEN COMPLETED? A. LET'S SEE. YEAH, NOW THIS IS REFERRING TO THE CHAPTER ON THE INVERTEBRATE COMMUNITY COMPOSITION. AND THAT WAS -- WHAT I MEANT THERE, WAS BASICALLY OUTLINING WHICH AREAS SEEM TO HAVE A HIGHER PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION, AND THEN BASICALLY DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 366 PLOTTING THE DENSITY AND SPECIES DIVERSITY OF INVERTEBRATES, VERSUS WHAT WE WOULD ARBITRARILY GROUP AS THE ENRICHED AREA, SLIGHTLY ENRICHED AND UNENRICHED AREAS--- Q. IS THAT THE WORK THAT--- A. ---SO, BASICALLY, THAT'S JUST REFERRING TO CHAPTER FIVE. Q. IS THAT DR. RADER'S WORK? A. THAT'S RIGHT, YES.