DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 289

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: ALL RIGHT. READY?

 

 

WITNESS: YES.

 

 

EXAMINATION BY MS. PONZOLI CONTINUES:

 

 

Q. OKAY, YOU'VE MADE SEVERAL REFERENCES TO THE DOSING

 

 

STUDY OF THE PARK, DR. QUALLS.

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT TO HAVE BEEN DESIGNED TO

 

 

DETERMINE A THRESHOLD OF TOTAL PHOSPHORUS IN THE

 

 

WATER COLUMN ABOVE WHICH CHANGES IN THE FLORA AND

 

 

FAUNA WOULD OCCUR?

 

 

A. I WOULD -- I'M NOT QUITE SURE. BUT I KIND OF MORE

 

 

UNDERSTOOD IT AS A STUDY MEANT TO DETERMINE

 

 

WHETHER PHOSPHORUS WAS OR WASN'T, AND NOT

 

 

SPECIFICALLY A CERTAIN THRESHOLD.

 

 

Q. IS YOUR DOSING STUDY DESIGNED TO DETERMINE AN

 

 

ACTUAL THRESHOLD AT WHICH THERE ARE CHANGES?

 

 

A. YES, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. OKAY. WHY DO YOU GO SO HIGH?

 

 

A. OH, SO HIGH, UP TO ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY?

 

 

Q. YES. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. JUST IN CASE WE WANT TO SEE WHAT REALLY A WHOLE

 

 

LOT OF PHOSPHORUS WOULD DO. JUST IN CASE WE

 

 

DON'T SEE ANYTHING AT LOWER LEVELS, WE WANT TO

 

 

KNOW AT LEAST AT SOME LEVEL IS PHOSPHORUS EVER

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 290

 

 

LIMITING. AND, NUMBER TWO, BECAUSE THERE HAVE

 

 

BEEN CONCENTRATIONS OF ORTHOPHOSPHATE AS HIGH AS A

 

 

HUNDRED AND FIFTY MICROGRAMS PER LITER REPORTED IN

 

 

THE CANALS THEMSELVES, BASED ON SOUTH FLORIDA

 

 

WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT DATA.

 

 

Q. WHAT IF THE -- WHAT IF THE THRESHOLD IS BELOW THE

 

 

THIRTY THAT YOU HAVE AS YOUR LOWEST EDITION?

 

 

A. THEN, IF IT'S BELOW THE THIRTY, THEN WE WOULD SEE

 

 

CHANGES IN ALL OUR TREATMENTS, AND WE WOULDN'T BE

 

 

ABLE TO SAY WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN, SAY,

 

 

ZERO AND THIRTY---

 

 

Q. AND YOU'D---

 

 

A. ---RIGHT. AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, IF THE

 

 

THRESHOLD---

 

 

Q. ---YOU'D HAVE TO START ALL OVER?

 

 

A. ---IF THE THRESHOLD IS TEN, WE WOULD ONLY BE ABLE

 

 

TO SAY THAT IT'S UNDER THIRTY. BUT THE REASON WE

 

 

DECIDED ON THIRTY, WAS BECAUSE AT THE TIME WE

 

 

ORIGINALLY DESIGNED THE STUDY, THE PROPOSED

 

 

STANDARD, I BELIEVE IN ONE OF THE EARLIER DRAFTS

 

 

OF THE SWIM PLAN, WAS THIRTY MICROGRAMS PER LITER.

 

 

AND THEN I THINK SINCE THEN IT'S BEEN CHANGED TO

 

 

SOMETHING A LITTLE HIGHER THAN THAT, THE PROPOSED

 

 

STANDARD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 291

 

 

Q. I'D LIKE TO TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR "GEOCHEMISTRY OF

 

 

DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS IN THE EVERGLADES OF

 

 

FLORIDA." I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE WERE BEFORE WE

 

 

BROKE. IS THAT RIGHT?

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

MR. McCAUGHAN: IS THAT IN -- IT'S

 

 

NOT IN HERE. IT'S NOT.

 

 

WITNESS: NO, THAT'S NOT IN THERE.

 

 

OH, WELL, IT IS, IN THE SENSE IT'S A -- IT'S

 

 

BITS AND PIECES LIFTED FROM CHAPTER SIX,

 

 

BASICALLY.

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) OKAY. YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO

 

 

ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT A FEW

 

 

STATEMENTS YOU MAKE, AND I UNDERSTAND YOU'VE TOLD

 

 

US THAT THIS IS A SKELETAL DRAFT, SO IF YOU THINK

 

 

THESE STATEMENTS ARE -- WHATEVER YOU THINK THEY

 

 

ARE, IT IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO TELL ME. ALL

 

 

RIGHT?

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. I MEAN, WE HAVEN'T -- THAT'S FAIR?

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DISSOLVED ORGANIC

 

 

MATTER IN THIS -- IN THIS DRAFT PAPER?

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 292

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FIRST PAGE,

 

 

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SWIM PLAN AS "MANDATE

 

 

IMPROVEMENT IN WATER QUALITY AND THESE PROPOSED

 

 

STANDARDS ARE EXPRESSED AS TOTAL PHOSPHORUS AND

 

 

TOTAL NITROGEN."

 

 

A. RIGHT.

 

 

Q. "OUR PREVIOUS RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT

 

 

APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN TO THIRTY-TWO PERCENT OF THE

 

 

TOTAL PHOSPHORUS, AND OVER NINETY-FIVE PERCENT OF

 

 

THE TOTAL NITROGEN IS IN THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC

 

 

FORM IN SURFACE WATER." DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THESE

 

 

NUMBERS ARE STILL ACCURATE, BASED ON THE WORK THAT

 

 

YOU'RE PRESENTLY DOING?

 

 

A. BASED ON THE WORK THAT I'M PRESENTLY DOING -- I

 

 

THINK WHERE I HAD GOTTEN THOSE -- THOSE NUMBERS

 

 

FROM, IS PROBABLY FROM SOMEWHERE IN -- ALONG THE

 

 

GRADIENT STUDY. IN OTHER WORDS, IT SEEMS LIKE I

 

 

PROBABLY LOOKED AT THESE PIE DIAGRAMS. LET'S SEE

 

 

IF THAT JIBES.

 

 

Q. WHERE WERE THE PIES, AGAIN?

 

 

MR. McCAUGHAN: 268?

 

 

A. OH, PAGE 230. YEAH, IT SAYS "OUR PREVIOUS

 

 

RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN TO

 

 

AROUND THIRTY-TWO PERCENT OF THE TOTAL PHOSPHORUS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 293

 

 

IS IN THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC FORM IN SURFACE

 

 

WATER," AND IF YOU'LL LOOK AT---

 

 

Q. SO, YOU'RE SAYING SIXTY-EIGHT TO EIGHTY-NINE

 

 

PERCENT, ROUGHLY, WOULD BE AN INORGANIC. IS THAT

 

 

WHAT IT MEANS?

 

 

A. OH, NO, BECAUSE THERE'S ALSO SUSPENDED PARTICULATE

 

 

PHOSPHORUS.

 

 

Q. OH, OKAY.

 

 

A. THAT'S STRICTLY TALKING ABOUT THE DISSOLVED

 

 

ORGANIC FORM.

 

 

Q. OKAY. BUT DO YOU THINK THOSE NUMBERS ARE RIGHT,

 

 

BASED ON YOUR PIES?

 

 

A. YEAH, WHAT I GOT THAT FROM IS IF YOU'LL LOOK AT

 

 

THE PIE IN THE LOWER RIGHT-HAND CORNER, THAT

 

 

PROBABLY REPRESENTS THE HIGH PERCENTAGE THERE,

 

 

WHICH IS ABOUT THIRTY-THREE PERCENT, IS IN THE

 

 

FORM OF DISSOLVED, ORGANIC PHOSPHORUS. AND THEN

 

 

IF YOU LOOK AT THE ONE IN THE UPPER -- UPPER

 

 

RIGHT-HAND CORNER, THAT'S APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN

 

 

PERCENT THERE IN THE HIGH NUTRIENT INPUT PLOTS,

 

 

WITH THE GATES OPEN. THAT'S APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN

 

 

PERCENT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. TURNING TO RESULTS AND DISCUSSION UNDER

 

 

"DISTRIBUTION OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS IN

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 294

 

 

WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A," SECOND FULL PARAGRAPH

 

 

OF YOUR DRAFT PAPER. I DON'T THINK THESE PAGES

 

 

ARE NUMBERED.

 

 

A. OH, RESULTS AND DISCUSSIONS, SORRY. YEAH, OKAY.

 

 

YEAH, PHYSICALLY, I THINK THAT'S PAGE NUMBER FOUR.

 

 

THEY'RE NOT NUMBERED, UNFORTUNATELY.

 

 

Q. OKAY. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, "DISSOLVED ORGANIC

 

 

CARBON AND NITROGEN DECREASE WITH DISTANCE ALONG

 

 

THE NUTRIENT GRADIENT AT WATER CONSERVATION AREA

 

 

2A BOTH IN SURFACE AND SOIL PORE WATER."

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. "THE CONCENTRATIONS IN SOIL PORE WATER TEND TO BE

 

 

ONE POINT FIVE TO TWO TIMES THOSE IN THE SURFACE

 

 

WATER."

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. I -- WHAT MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT THIS IS BASED ON

 

 

DATA COLLECTED WHERE?

 

 

A. ALONG THE GRADIENT STUDY.

 

 

Q. OKAY. ANY IN 3A OR 2B?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. SO, THIS IS THE SAME DATA THAT WE'VE BEEN

 

 

TALKING ABOUT?

 

 

A. THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH, THE DATA THAT APPEARS IN

 

 

CHAPTER SIX, IN FIGURES 6-20, 6-21, AND 6-22. AND

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 295

 

 

THOSE ARE PLOTS OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC CARBON AND

 

 

DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN, AS A FUNCTION OF

 

 

DISTANCE ALONG THE GRADIENT IN WATER CONSERVATION

 

 

AREA 2A.

 

 

(THEREUPON MS. PONZOLI AND MR. JONES CONFER.)

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) ALL RIGHT. I'D LIKE YOU TO TURN

 

 

BACK TO THE "BIODEGRADABILITY OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC

 

 

MATTER."

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. IT'S JUST ABOUT THREE PAGES FROM THE END.

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT "APPLICATION--DISSOLVED

 

 

ORGANIC NUTRIENTS?"

 

 

A. YEAH.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU'RE SORT OF LIKE HALFWAY DOWN

 

 

THE PARAGRAPH, YOU'RE SAYING "SUNLIGHT DEGRADES

 

 

THE FRACTION, WHICH IS THE ONE WHICH IS MOST

 

 

RESISTANT, PERHAPS INHIBITORY, TO MICROBIAL

 

 

DEGRADATION."

 

 

A. YES, AND THAT IS TALKING ABOUT THE HUMIC ACID

 

 

FRACTION.

 

 

Q. OKAY. NEXT, YOU SAY, "IN TERMS OF THE

 

 

EUTROPHICATION IN THE EVERGLADES, IT WOULD BE

 

 

CONSIDERED DESIRABLE IF THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 296

 

 

NUTRIENTS WERE NOT MINERALIZED AT ALL AND SIMPLY

 

 

FLOWED THROUGH THE SYSTEM." I THINK THAT SAME

 

 

SENTENCE APPEARS IN CHAPTER SIX, DOESN'T IT?

 

 

A. YES, IT IS. THAT -- IN FACT, IT'S JUST BASICALLY

 

 

CUT AND PASTED FROM CHAPTER SIX.

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. YEAH.

 

 

Q. OKAY. WITHOUT LOOKING FOR IT THERE, LET'S JUST

 

 

DEAL WITH IT HERE. DO YOU THINK THIS ACTUALLY

 

 

HAPPENS? IS THIS THE WAY YOU BELIEVE IT HAPPENS?

 

 

A. OH, NO, I THINK THAT THERE IS SOME MINERALIZATION

 

 

OF THE DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS. I WAS SAYING,

 

 

YOU KNOW, TRYING TO SET UP, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD

 

 

BE A DESIRABLE SITUATION, WHAT ROLE WOULD THESE

 

 

DISSOLVED ORGANIC NUTRIENTS PLAY IF THEY WERE OR

 

 

WERE NOT AVAILABLE. AND SINCE WHAT WE'RE WORRIED

 

 

ABOUT HERE IS EUTROPHICATION, THEN IT WOULD BE

 

 

BETTER IF THEY SIMPLY FLOWED THROUGH THE SYSTEM

 

 

AND WENT OUT THROUGH THE CANALS TO THE OCEANS,

 

 

WITHOUT EVER HAVING BEEN MINERALIZED.

 

 

Q. IT WOULDN'T BE BETTER FOR FLORIDA BAY, WOULD IT?

 

 

A. NO, I GUESS IT WOULDN'T, AS LONG AS IT -- ASSUMING

 

 

IT WAS NOT MINERALIZED THERE, RIGHT. BUT MOST OF

 

 

THE WATER ACTUALLY GOES OUT THE OCEAN CANALS, I

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 297

 

 

THINK, YOU KNOW.

 

 

Q. WELL, THAT'S A PROBLEM, TOO, BUT WE'RE NOT DEALING

 

 

WITH THAT ONE HERE.

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH.

 

 

Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE MOVING RIGHT ALONG HERE.

 

 

I'D LIKE TO TURN TO WHAT I BELIEVE IS REALLY YOUR

 

 

CHAPTER NINE. I HAVE IT IN A DRAFT FORM, AND I

 

 

DEALT WITH IT -- OR NOT A DRAFT FORM, I THINK IT'S

 

 

ALMOST AN IDENTICAL FORM -- BUT IT'S FROM YOUR

 

 

MINI-PAPER ON YOUR DISK NUMBER 24. IT IS FOR MOST

 

 

PURPOSES CHAPTER NINE, FOR THOSE AT THE TABLE WHO

 

 

DON'T HAVE IT. YOU SHOULD -- YOU SHOULD DEAL WITH

 

 

THE PAPER WITH ME. I THINK IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR

 

 

YOU AND ME TO TALK ABOUT THE PAPER.

 

 

MR. GREEN: IS THAT A MINI-PAPER?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: NUMBER 24.

 

 

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

 

 

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

 

 

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

 

 

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) CAN YOU FIND IT?

 

 

A. RIGHT, I'VE GOT IT.

 

 

Q. OH, ALL RIGHT, GOOD. ALL RIGHT. IN YOUR SECOND

 

 

PARAGRAPH, YOU SAY, "IN AEROBIC ENVIRONMENTS, MOST

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 298

 

 

ORGANIC MATTER IS EVENTUALLY MINERALIZED. IN

 

 

ANAEROBIC ENVIRONMENTS, SUCH AS THE PEATLANDS OF

 

 

THE EVERGLADES, A PORTION OF THE DEAD ORGANIC

 

 

MATTER IS MINERALIZED SO SLOWLY THAT THE NUTRIENTS

 

 

IT CONTAINS CAN BE STORED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS

 

 

AND REMOVED FROM THE NUTRIENT CYCLE." IS THIS

 

 

ESSENTIALLY, DR. QUALLS, DESCRIBING AN

 

 

OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEM?

 

 

A. YES, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT -- FURTHER

 

 

DOWN, WHERE YOU SAY, "WHEN AREAS OF THE EVERGLADES

 

 

PEATLANDS WERE DRAINED FOR AGRICULTURE, A GREAT

 

 

FLUSH OF AEROBIC MINERALIZATION RELEASED

 

 

NUTRIENTS, CAUSING CONDITIONS OF HIGH FERTILITY,

 

 

EXCEPT FOR CERTAIN MICRONUTRIENT DEFICIENCIES."

 

 

ARE YOU DESCRIBING, BASICALLY A EUTROPHIC SYSTEM

 

 

THERE?

 

 

A. RIGHT. THERE I WAS ACTUALLY DESCRIBING THE FIELDS

 

 

THAT THE SUGAR CANE AND VEGETABLES ARE GROWN ON

 

 

THEMSELVES.

 

 

Q. OH, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND IN THE MIDDLE, I ASSUME

 

 

THAT AS A CONTINUED DESCRIPTION OF OLIGOTROPHIC

 

 

SYSTEM, "IN THE PAST, THE SLOWNESS OF THE NUTRIENT

 

 

CYCLE IN MANY PORTIONS OF THE EVERGLADES LED TO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 299

 

 

CONDITIONS OF VERY LOW FERTILITY." IS THAT -- IS

 

 

THAT AN OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEM?

 

 

A. YES, RIGHT, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. OVER ON THE NEXT PAGE, "CONDITIONS IN THE SURFACE

 

 

PEAT OF THE NATURAL AREAS OF THE EVERGLADES ARE

 

 

NOT ALWAYS ANAEROBIC." DO YOUR RESULTS SHOW THIS,

 

 

THAT THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS ANAEROBIC?

 

 

A. OH, YEAH. AT CERTAIN TIMES, YOU KNOW, DURING THE

 

 

DROUGHT IN 1990, WHEN THE WATER LEVELS GOT VERY

 

 

LOW, THERE WERE -- I THINK IN SOME PLACES AS MUCH

 

 

AS TWENTY OR TWENTY-FIVE CENTIMETERS BELOW THE

 

 

SURFACE -- THERE WERE SOME REDOX POTENTIALS THAT

 

 

INDICATED BORDERLINE AEROBIC CONDITIONS. THERE

 

 

WAS NOTHING THAT WAS REALLY INTENSELY AEROBIC, BUT

 

 

IN AREAS THAT WERE -- WHERE THE WATER TABLE WAS

 

 

WELL BELOW THE PEAT SURFACE, THEY DID BECOME

 

 

AEROBIC IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---IN SOME PLOTS.

 

 

Q. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT THE BOTTOM, WHERE THERE ARE

 

 

QUESTIONS THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT ARE GOING TO BE

 

 

ANSWERED. YOU SAY QUESTION ONE: "ARE THE ORGANIC

 

 

NUTRIENTS STORED IN THE SOIL OF THE ENRICHED ZONE

 

 

MORE EASILY MINERALIZED THAN THOSE FAR FROM THE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 300

 

 

HILLSBORO CANAL UNDER (a) AEROBIC CONDITIONS, AND

 

 

THEN (b), UNDER ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS?" BRIEFLY,

 

 

WHAT WOULD YOUR ANSWER TO THOSE BE?

 

 

A. TO THOSE -- THOSE PARTICULAR OBJECTIVES, I

 

 

HAVEN'T ANALYZED THE DATA ENOUGH TO FIGURE THAT

 

 

OUT YET---

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. ---THERE'S A WHOLE SECTION OF THAT EXPERIMENT,

 

 

WHERE WE FRACTIONATED THE VARIOUS FORMS OF ORGANIC

 

 

MATTER, BEFORE AND AFTER THAT SIX MONTHS

 

 

INCUBATION, AND WE'VE DONE THE ANALYSES, BUT I

 

 

HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO COMPLETELY ANALYZE AND COMPILE

 

 

ALL THAT DATA.

 

 

Q. OKAY. COULD YOU GIVE ME PRELIM -- PRELIMINARY

 

 

ANSWERS---

 

 

A. WELL---

 

 

Q. ---IF THEY WERE QUALIFIED IN THAT WAY?

 

 

A. ---I'M NOT EVEN REALLY SURE I COULD EVEN GIVE YOU

 

 

PRELIMINARY ANSWERS, EXCEPT THAT JUST FROM LOOKING

 

 

ROUGHLY AT THE NUMBERS, I THINK THAT A LARGE PART

 

 

OF THE PHOSPHORUS THAT WAS MINERALIZED IN THE

 

 

ANAEROBIC INCUBATION HAD TO HAVE COME FROM

 

 

MICROBIAL BIOMASS, THE DEATH OF MICROBIAL BIOMASS

 

 

THERE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 301

 

 

Q. THAT'S AS FAR AS YOU WANT TO GO?

 

 

A. YEAH. AND THAT -- THAT'S JUST A BALLPARK IDEA,

 

 

FROM LOOKING AT THE VERY ROUGH NUMBERS.

 

 

Q. OKAY. THE SECOND OBJECTIVE WAS, "IS THE

 

 

DECOMPOSITION OF SUBSURFACE PEAT SIGNIFICANT UNDER

 

 

ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS?" CAN YOU ANSWER THAT?

 

 

A. OKAY. THERE'S TWO QUESTIONS HERE. WAS THERE A

 

 

SIGNIFICANT DECOMPOSITION OF CARBON---

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. ---OF THE SOIL ORGANIC MATTER ITSELF. AND THAT

 

 

ACTUALLY TURNED OUT TO BE VERY SMALL. AND THERE

 

 

DID SEEM TO BE A SIGNIFICANT RELEASE, THOUGH OF

 

 

PHOSPHATE FROM THOSE ANAEROBIC INCUBATIONS. BUT,

 

 

LIKE I SAY, I THINK THAT THAT WAS LARGELY DUE TO

 

 

THE INTENSELY REDUCING CONDITIONS THAT DEVELOPED

 

 

OVER THAT SIX MONTH INCUBATION, AT THIRTY-FIVE

 

 

DEGREES INSIDE AN INCUBATOR.

 

 

Q. SO WE PRETTY MUCH NARROWED THAT ONE TO THOSE

 

 

FAIRLY UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES, I GUESS---

 

 

A. YES, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ---IN YOUR OPINION?

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH. AND THE INTENTION OF THAT EXPERIMENT

 

 

WAS NOT TO SIMULATE THE ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS THAT

 

 

ARE ACTUALLY FOUND IN THE FIELD, BUT RATHER TO TRY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 302

 

 

TO GET AS MUCH DECOMPOSITION AS POSSIBLE, SO THAT

 

 

WE COULD MEASURE SOME SORTS OF CHANGES DURING THAT

 

 

SIX MONTH PERIOD. AND IT'S REALLY KIND OF AN

 

 

ASSAY, RATHER THAN ANYTHING MEANT TO REPRESENT THE

 

 

FIELD CIRCUMSTANCES.

 

 

Q. I BELIEVE THAT ONE OF YOUR CO-WORKERS -- I BELIEVE

 

 

IT WAS DR. RADER -- SAID THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE

 

 

AN EXPERIMENT SET UP TO SEE IF DECOMPOSITION IS

 

 

ENHANCED BY NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT. ARE YOU AWARE OF

 

 

THAT?

 

 

A. THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH.

 

 

Q. OKAY. WILL THAT ANSWER SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS?

 

 

A. YEAH. WELL, LET ME SAY THAT THE DECOMPOSITION OF

 

 

RECENT LEAF LITTER, AND THE DECOMPOSITION OF THE

 

 

OLDER PEAT ARE PROBABLY TWO SEPARATE QUESTIONS. I

 

 

THINK THEY PROBABLY BEHAVE A LITTLE BIT

 

 

DIFFERENTLY.

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. STEVE DAVIS HAS ALREADY SHOWN THAT IN THE ENRICHED

 

 

AREA, THE CATTAIL AND SAWGRASS LEAVES DECOMPOSED

 

 

FASTER IN THE ENRICHED AREA THAN IN THE UNENRICHED

 

 

AREA.

 

 

Q. OKAY. I DIDN'T REALIZE THE DECOMPOSITION

 

 

EXPERIMENT WAS -- IT'S -- IT'S RESTRICTED TO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 303

 

 

ABOVEGROUND?

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH. THESE ARE JUST RECENTLY---

 

 

Q. ABOVE -- YEAH, SURFACE.

 

 

A. ---YOU KNOW, LEAVES, BASICALLY KIND OF---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---LIKE AUTUMN LEAVES, EXCEPT THAT THERE'S NO

 

 

AUTUMN THERE.

 

 

Q. WE HAVE OUR SEASONS. NUMBER THREE, "HOW DOES THE

 

 

PERIODIC LOWERING OF WATER LEVEL (AEROBIC

 

 

CONDITIONS) AFFECT THE MINERALIZATION OF

 

 

PHOSPHORUS?" CAN YOU ANSWER THAT, BRIEFLY?

 

 

A. WELL, OKAY, IN TERMS OF ORGANIC MATTER---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---OBVIOUSLY, THE -- UNDER AEROBIC CONDITIONS, IT

 

 

DECOMPOSED MUCH, MUCH FASTER. UNDER ANAEROBIC

 

 

CONDITIONS, IT ACTUALLY LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS MORE

 

 

PHOSPHORUS RELEASED UNDER ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS

 

 

THAN THERE WAS. BUT I THINK FROM PRELIMINARY

 

 

LOOKS AT THE DATA, THAT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY DUE

 

 

TO ACTUALLY DECOMPOSITION OF THAT DEAD ORGANIC

 

 

MATTER. BUT IT WAS INSTEAD PROBABLY MAINLY DUE TO

 

 

THE BACTERIA AND FUNGI THAT WAS IN THERE DYING

 

 

UNDER THOSE INTENSE ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS AND

 

 

RELEASING THEIR TISSUE PHOSPHORUS. AND THEN THERE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 304

 

 

WAS NO NEW MICROBES GROWING THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO

 

 

TAKE THAT BACK UP.

 

 

Q. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT YOU DISCUSSED WITH ME THIS

 

 

MORNING?

 

 

A. RIGHT, YES, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. AND SO, RIGHT NOW, I CAN'T FULLY ANSWER THAT

 

 

QUESTION, UNTIL I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY

 

 

THOROUGHLY LOOK AT ALL THE RESULTS FROM THE

 

 

FRACTIONATION.

 

 

Q. AND YOU SAID THAT'S GOING TO TAKE SIX MONTHS? WAS

 

 

THAT THE ONE THAT WAS TAKING SIX MONTHS, OR YOU

 

 

HAVEN'T TOLD ME HOW LONG---

 

 

A. NO, I THINK THAT WAS---

 

 

Q. ---HOW LONG THIS WAS GOING TO TAKE?

 

 

A. ---THAT WAS ANOTHER ONE.

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. AND, YEAH, I WOULD SAY, IT'S GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER

 

 

TWO OR THREE MONTHS, BECAUSE---

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND THEN YOU THINK YOU WOULD HAVE ANSWERS

 

 

AT THE CONCLUSION OF THOSE TWO TO THREE MONTHS?

 

 

A. I HOPE SO. YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE THAT --

 

 

THAT MANY OF THE THINGS VARIED STATISTICALLY SO

 

 

MUCH THAT WE WON'T BE ABLE TO SAY WITH A

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 305

 

 

NINETY-FIVE PERCENT CONFIDENCE INTERVAL THAT SUCH

 

 

AND SUCH CHANGES OCCURRED, BUT HOPEFULLY.

 

 

Q. NUMBER FOUR: IS THE DECOMPOSITION AND

 

 

MINERALIZATION OF PEAT NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS

 

 

ACCELERATED BY ADDITION OF INORGANIC NITROGEN OF

 

 

PHOSPHORUS IN, FIRST, THE ENRICHED ZONE, AND THEN

 

 

THE NON-ENRICHED ZONE?

 

 

A. AT THE VERY HIGH LEVELS OF ADDITION OF INORGANIC

 

 

NITROGEN, AND THE VERY HIGH LEVELS OF ADDITION OF

 

 

ORGANIC PHOSPHORUS, IT DID SEEM LIKE THAT THE --

 

 

THAT THE ORGANIC MATTER, OR THE PEAT DID DECOMPOSE

 

 

FASTER IN -- UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ADDITIONS OF

 

 

LARGE AMOUNTS OF PHOSPHORUS. WE DON'T KNOW THAT

 

 

UNDER THE AMOUNTS OF PHOSPHORUS WHICH MIGHT BE,

 

 

YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY BE OCCURRING RIGHT NOW IN THE

 

 

UNENRICHED AREA -- I MEAN -- SORRY -- IN THE

 

 

ENRICHED AREA---

 

 

Q. OKAY. NUMBER FIVE---

 

 

A. ---IN OTHER WORDS, WE DIDN'T USE ENTIRELY NATURAL

 

 

CONCENTRATIONS. WE USED VERY, VERY HIGH

 

 

CONCENTRATIONS TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, GET A HANDLE

 

 

ON THAT FIRST, YOU KNOW.

 

 

Q. AND THIS IS THE SAME AS YOU'VE BEEN DISCUSSING

 

 

WITH ME ALONG?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 306

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH.

 

 

Q. OKAY. NUMBER FIVE: HOW LABILE OR REFRACTORY IS

 

 

EACH OF THE FRACTIONS SEPARATED BY THE PHOSPHOROUS

 

 

FRACTIONIZATION PROCEDURE UNDER AEROBIC AND

 

 

ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS?

 

 

A. AND THAT AGAIN IS ONE QUESTION WHICH WE---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---WE HAD HOPED TO ANSWER, BUT HAVEN'T COMPLETELY

 

 

ANALYZED THAT DATA YET.

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND FINALLY, "WHAT PERCENTAGE OF NITROGEN

 

 

LOST OR IN DECOMPOSITION IS ACTUALLY IN THE

 

 

REFRACTORY DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN FORM, WHICH

 

 

IS FOUND IN SUCH HIGH CONCENTRATIONS?"

 

 

A. YEAH. ACTUALLY, WE DID ANSWER THAT QUESTION, AND

 

 

THAT IS -- THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF PART OF CHAPTER

 

 

NINE THERE. AND IT'S IN FIGURE -- FIGURE 9-3 ON

 

 

PAGE 374. AND IF YOU'LL NOTICE, I HAVE THE THREE

 

 

FORMS OF NITROGEN THAT WERE MINERALIZED DURING

 

 

THAT EXPERIMENT, AND DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN IS

 

 

THE TOP BAR. AND, AS YOU'LL NOTICE, THERE IS

 

 

PRETTY LARGE QUANTITIES OF DISSOLVED ORGANIC

 

 

NITROGEN GENERATED.

 

 

Q. TURNING TO THE APPLICATION, DR. QUALLS, OF WHAT

 

 

YOU'VE DONE WITH THE MINERALIZATION POTENTIAL OF

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 307

 

 

NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS---

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. ---YOU GIVE US THE CONCLUSION -- OR I'M CALLING A

 

 

CONCLUSION -- THAT ON BALANCE, CATTAIL COMMUNITIES

 

 

IN THE ENRICHED AREAS SO EFFECTIVELY REMOVE AND

 

 

STORE PHOSPHORUS---

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ---AND WE DISCUSSED THAT---

 

 

A. RIGHT.

 

 

Q. ---THAT PREVIOUSLY. BEYOND THAT, TELL ME WHAT THE

 

 

APPLICATION OF ALL OF THESE FINDINGS THAT YOU'VE

 

 

MADE, HOW WE WOULD APPLY THOSE TO, LIKE SAY STA'S

 

 

OR FLOWWAYS?

 

 

A. OH, YEAH, FOR THE MINERALIZATION CHAPTER -- I

 

 

THINK THAT AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY

 

 

MANIPULATE THE STA'S, I'M NOT SURE IT'S GOING TO

 

 

BE ABLE TO EASILY MANIPULATE THE STA'S TO TAKE

 

 

ADVANTAGE OF THE VARIOUS DIFFERENCES AND

 

 

MINERALIZATION POTENTIAL. AND -- AND ONE OF THE

 

 

QUALIFICATIONS HERE IS BECAUSE OF THE -- UNDER

 

 

THE ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS, THEY DID TURN OUT TO

 

 

BE UNNATURALLY LOW -- UNNATURALLY LOW REDOX

 

 

POTENTIALS. AND I THINK THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE

 

 

REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS THAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 308

 

 

WOULD ACTUALLY PROBABLY OCCUR IN THE STA'S. AND

 

 

THAT'S OF COURSE, JUST A GUESS, BECAUSE I, I

 

 

DON'T---

 

 

Q. SURE.

 

 

A. ---YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO THE STA'S, BUT,

 

 

YOU KNOW, JUST JUDGING FROM WATER CONSERVATION

 

 

AREA 2A. SO, RIGHT AT THE MOMENT, I WOULD SAY

 

 

THEY HAVE FAIRLY LIMITED APPLICABILITY FOR

 

 

ANYTHING THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE MANIPULABLE IN THE

 

 

STA'S.

 

 

Q. THE GOAL HAD BEEN THAT YOU HAD HOPED THAT YOU

 

 

WOULD BE ABLE TO PRODUCE SOME INFORMATION THAT

 

 

WOULD BE USEFUL?

 

 

A. YES.

 

 

Q. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY?

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES). RIGHT. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. OKAY. BUT, RIGHT NOW, BEYOND THE FACT THAT --

 

 

THAT YOUR WORK SUPPORTS THAT MAYBE CATTAILS WOULD

 

 

BE USEFUL TO BE GROWN, AND THEN THERE'S -- THERE'S

 

 

LIMITED APPLICATION OF ANYTHING ELSE?

 

 

A. RIGHT.

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. I GUESS IN A SENSE THAT IS AN APPLICATION THOUGH,

 

 

IN THE SENSE THAT WE DID -- THE SURFACE SOIL THAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 309

 

 

WAS TAKEN FROM THE ENRICHED ZONE, WAS IN A CATTAIL

 

 

AREA, AND THERE WAS SLIGHTLY MORE MINERALIZATION

 

 

FROM THE -- THIS SURFACE SOIL FROM THE ENRICHED

 

 

AREA, MAINLY BECAUSE IT HAD HIGHER CONCENTRATION

 

 

OF PHOSPHORUS TO BEGIN WITH.

 

 

Q. I HAVE ONLY ONE QUESTION ON DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 67,

 

 

AND IT'S ON THE COVER. I GAVE YOU THE WHOLE

 

 

EXHIBIT, AND I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY.

 

 

A. OH, OKAY.

 

 

Q. I MUST HAVE BEEN TIRED WHEN I HAD THINGS

 

 

REPRODUCED. DO YOU SEE THIS ONE?

 

 

A. YEAH.

 

 

Q. THERE'S A REFERENCE TO JOHN DUNKLEMAN. WHO IS HE?

 

 

A. OH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T EVEN KNOW. THAT'S -- THAT'S

 

 

NOT EVEN MY HANDWRITING.

 

 

Q. OH, OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHOSE HANDWRITING IT IS?

 

 

A. NO, I'M NOT EVEN SURE. WAS THIS IN THAT FILE?

 

 

Q. IT'S MARKED DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NUMBER 67, QUALLS,

 

 

ANNUAL REPORT. DO YOU KNOW WHO HE IS?

 

 

A. OH, THIS IS ACTUALLY THE FRONT OF A MANILA

 

 

FOLDER---

 

 

Q. SURE, PROBABLY.

 

 

A. ---SO, NO, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS.

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 310

 

 

A. MY GUESS IS THAT SOMEBODY WAS USING THAT MANILA

 

 

FOLDER FOR A SCRATCH PAD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. HOW ABOUT KOCH, SOUTH FLORIDA WATER

 

 

MANAGEMENT DISTRICT REPORT?

 

 

A. YEAH. I KNOW THAT JUST BE MARGUERITE COOK, I

 

 

THINK.

 

 

Q. OKAY. COOK, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU'RE RIGHT. OKAY.

 

 

ALL RIGHT, THAT'S ALL I HAD. I HAVE SEVERAL MORE,

 

 

BUT NOT MANY. I THINK I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS ON

 

 

ONE OF THE CHAPTERS, CHAPTER SIX. I'M GOING TO

 

 

ASK YOU A LITTLE BIT REGARDING YOUR CV, AND THOSE

 

 

OTHER DOCUMENTS, AND WE'LL BE DONE.

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. YOUR CV IS PULLED OFF OF DISK NUMBER 22. IS THIS

 

 

THE MOST RECENT, DO YOU KNOW? I HAVE ANOTHER ONE,

 

 

BUT I -- AND I GUESS I DIDN'T CHECK THE DATES.

 

 

THERE WERE TWO, AND I JUST TOOK THIS ONE. THEY

 

 

LOOKED TO ME TO BE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.

 

 

A. YEAH, PROBABLY, YEAH.

 

 

Q. IS IT GOOD ENOUGH?

 

 

A. YEAH---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---I DON'T THINK ANYBODY -- ANYTHING HAS CHANGED

 

 

SINCE AUGUST, THERE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 311

 

 

Q. OKAY. WILL YOU DESCRIBE BRIEFLY FOR ME, YOUR

 

 

EDUCATION?

 

 

A. WELL, THE FIRST PART OF IT WAS POOR, BECAUSE I

 

 

GREW UP IN NORTH CAROLINA, BUT -- WHICH I FOUND

 

 

OUT WHEN I GOT INTO MY FIRST CALCULUS CLASS, WHERE

 

 

EVERYBODY ELSE WAS OUT OF STATE. I WAS THE ONLY

 

 

NORTH CAROLINA NATIVE, AND THEY HAD ALREADY HAD IT

 

 

IN HIGH SCHOOL.

 

 

Q. IT'S LOOKS LIKE YOU CAUGHT UP, LOOKING AT YOUR

 

 

GPA, AND---

 

 

A. SO, ANYWAY, I GOT A B.S. IN BIOLOGY AT THE

 

 

UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA, AN M.S. IN PUBLIC

 

 

HEALTH, SPECIALIZING IN ENVIRONMENTAL CHEMISTRY

 

 

AND BIOLOGY, FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH

 

 

CAROLINA, AND THEN A Ph.D. IN ECOLOGY FROM THE

 

 

UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA.

 

 

Q. OKAY. JUST BRIEFLY, WHAT TYPES OF COURSES DID YOU

 

 

TAKE IN YOUR BACHELOR'S WORK? AND I WOULD JUST

 

 

LIKE YOU TO TELL ME BRIEFLY THE COURSES OF YOUR

 

 

MAJOR AREA OF STUDY.

 

 

A. OH, YEAH, IN THE BACHELOR'S WORK, I MAJORED IN

 

 

BIOLOGY AND TOOK COURSES LIKE CELL BIOLOGY,

 

 

GENETICS, INVERTEBRATE ZOOLOGY, AND VARIOUS MATH

 

 

COURSES, AND A LOT OF CHEMISTRY, ORGANIC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 312

 

 

CHEMISTRY, ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY, GENERAL

 

 

CHEMISTRY.

 

 

Q. OKAY. YOUR MASTER'S?

 

 

A. FOR A MASTER'S, I GUESS PROBABLY THE MOST

 

 

PERTINENT COURSES THAT I TOOK THERE WAS WATER

 

 

CHEMISTRY, I THINK ADVANCED METHODS OF

 

 

INSTRUMENTAL ANALYSIS, AND, LET'S SEE, SOME

 

 

MICROBIOLOGY COURSES. I THINK THERE'S A MICROBIAL

 

 

ECOLOGY COURSE THERE. AND THOSE ARE PROBABLY THE

 

 

MOST PERTINENT ONES.

 

 

Q. WHAT WAS YOUR -- YOUR THESIS ON?

 

 

A. FOR MY MASTER'S, THE THESIS WAS ON CONTROL OF

 

 

NITROGEN CYCLING AND LEAF LITTER DECOMPOSITION IN

 

 

A SWAMP STREAM.

 

 

Q. HOW ABOUT NITROGEN CYCLING? IT'S NOT THAT USEFUL,

 

 

IS IT, FOR YOUR WORK HERE?

 

 

A. WELL, IT COMES IN HANDY EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE---

 

 

Q. RIGHT.

 

 

A. ---WE'RE WORKING ON PHOSPHORUS AND NITROGEN

 

 

SIMULTANEOUSLY, SO.

 

 

Q. RIGHT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, AND YOUR Ph.D.?

 

 

A. THAT WAS DONE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA. AND

 

 

YOU WANT THE COURSES?

 

 

Q. JUST GENERALLY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 313

 

 

A. YEAH, THEY'RE LISTED IN THE---

 

 

Q. OH, THESE ARE THE ONES LISTED?

 

 

A. YEAH, THEY'RE ACTUALLY LISTED HERE.

 

 

Q. OH.

 

 

A. SYSTEMS ECOLOGY, SOIL CHEMISTRY.

 

 

Q. YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ THEM IF THESE ARE THE

 

 

LISTED COURSES, THAT'S FINE. AND YOUR

 

 

DISSERTATION?

 

 

A. THAT WAS "THE BIOGEOCHEMICAL PROPERTIES OF

 

 

DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER IN A DECIDUOUS FOREST

 

 

ECOSYSTEM: THEIR INFLUENCE ON THE RETENTION OF

 

 

NITROGEN, PHOSPHORUS AND CARBON."

 

 

Q. OKAY. YOU'RE LISTED AS A CONSULTANT IN HERE FOR

 

 

J.M. MONTGOMERY CONSULTING ENGINEERS. WHAT

 

 

TYPE---

 

 

A. THAT'S RIGHT.

 

 

Q. ---OF WORK DO YOU DO FOR THEM?

 

 

A. THAT'S HELPING THEM DESIGN EXPERIMENTS AND SYSTEMS

 

 

FOR USING ULTRAVIOLET LIGHT TO DISINFECT WATER AND

 

 

WASTEWATER.

 

 

Q. TREATMENT SYSTEMS?

 

 

A. RIGHT, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE IN DESIGNING

 

 

WASTEWATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 314

 

 

A. YEAH, I WORKED FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS DOING

 

 

RESEARCH ON ULTRAVIOLET DISINFECTION OF WATER AND

 

 

WASTEWATER, MAINLY WASTEWATER, AND BUILT SOME

 

 

PILOT PLANTS, AND DESIGNED SOME MEANS FOR

 

 

EVALUATING THE EFFICIENCY OF THESE WATER --

 

 

WASTEWATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS, MAINLY.

 

 

Q. DO YOU DO ANY OTHER CONSULTING WORK?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. I -- AND I GUESS I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT

 

 

YOU'RE IN THE SAME POSTURE AS DR. CRAFT, THAT

 

 

YOU'RE NOT A CONSULTANT OR BEING PAID FOR ANYTHING

 

 

RELATED TO THE EVERGLADES, SWIM CHALLENGES, OR ANY

 

 

OF THE EVERGLADES LITIGATION?

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE NOT BEING PAID TO BE

 

 

HERE TODAY?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. I'M SORRY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE

 

 

ON THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU A FEW QUESTIONS

 

 

ON NUMBER 123, SLOUGH -- SOMETHING OR ANOTHER --

 

 

EXP.

 

 

A. RIGHT, SLOUGH EXPERIMENT, PROBABLY.

 

 

Q. RIGHT.

 

 

A. YEAH. OKAY, THIS IS -- LOOKS LIKE A MANILA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 315

 

 

FOLDER, PROBABLY.

 

 

Q. IS IT A MISCELLANEOUS FILE?

 

 

A. YES.

 

 

Q. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU FIRST, IF -- ARE YOU

 

 

THE ONE WHO TESTED PERRIER WATER AND TOLD US WHAT

 

 

THE PHOSPHORUS CONTENT OF IT WAS?

 

 

A. NO, NO. ACTUALLY, NOW I REALIZE THAT THIS IS ONE

 

 

WHICH ACTUALLY CAME FROM THE GENERAL LAB RECORDS.

 

 

THIS WAS NOT SPECIFICALLY FROM A FILE OF MINE IN

 

 

PARTICULAR.

 

 

Q. BUT DOES THIS REFLECT THAT TESTING OF DIFFERENT

 

 

KINDS OF WATER FOR PHOSPHORUS?

 

 

A. ABOUT HOW MANY PAGES DOWN IS THAT?

 

 

Q. I THINK IT'S RIGHT IN THE BEGINNING, DEEP PARK,

 

 

DEER PARK SPRING, ZEPHYR HILL.

 

 

A. OH, OKAY, YEAH, SORRY.

 

 

Q. I'VE BOUGHT SOME OF THESE.

 

 

A. OH, YEAH. YEAH, I DIDN'T TEST THOSE. THAT WAS A

 

 

TECHNICIAN. IT'S FROM THE FILES OF A TECHNICIAN,

 

 

WHO NOW WORKS AT SAS INSTITUTE, YOU KNOW, SO HE'S

 

 

LONG GONE. THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, I THINK.

 

 

Q. WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS---

 

 

A. '91---

 

 

Q. ---TO CHECK THE BOTTLED WATER FOR PHOSPHORUS?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 316

 

 

A. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE.

 

 

Q. IT WASN'T YOUR IDEA?

 

 

A. NO, I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHOSE IDEA IT WAS?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. WHERE IT SAYS FLORIDA WATER, WHAT IS THAT,

 

 

ORTHOPHOSPHATE ANALYSIS FOR RUSS RADER, SITES,

 

 

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH? THOSE ARE -- THOSE ARE JUST

 

 

SAMPLES THAT ARE TAKEN?

 

 

A. HOW MANY PAGES DOWN WAS THAT?

 

 

Q. OH, JUST BEHIND.

 

 

A. OH, OKAY, YEAH. THAT'S A FEW PAGES DOWN. YEAH,

 

 

THAT IS FROM ANALYSES WHEN WE WERE LOOKING FOR A

 

 

GOOD PLACE TO PUT THE DOSING STUDY SITE, AND WE

 

 

WENT AND TOOK SOME SAMPLES FROM 2A, 2B, AND THEN

 

 

FLEW INTO A PART OF 3B TO TAKE SOME WATER SAMPLES

 

 

THERE.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU GO A LITTLE FURTHER BACK, YOU

 

 

SEE TO RUSS RADER FROM ERIC WALDBAUER?

 

 

A. YEAH, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. "PHOSPHORUS LEVELS AT DIFFERENT SITES."

 

 

A. YEAH.

 

 

Q. AND I GUESS I'M A LITTLE CURIOUS WHAT THESE

 

 

ARE, AND WHERE THE ENP -- I ASSUME THAT'S

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 317

 

 

EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK -- WHERE THOSE NUMBERS

 

 

CAME FROM?

 

 

A. YEAH, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE, BECAUSE AT THAT TIME,

 

 

RUSS WAS PRETTY MUCH HEADING UP THAT, YOU KNOW,

 

 

SEARCH FOR THE SITE.

 

 

Q. OKAY. YOU DON'T WHAT THESE NUMBERS REFLECT OR

 

 

WHERE THE EVERGLADE'S NUMBERS ORIGINATED?

 

 

A. NOT REALLY---

 

 

Q. OKAY. THAT'S ALL I HAVE ON THAT ONE.

 

 

A. ---I WAS ONLY ALONG ON ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE

 

 

WE GOT SOME FROM 3A.

 

 

Q. WERE YOU ON THE SAMPLING TRIP WHEN THE WATER WAS

 

 

COLLECTED?

 

 

A. I WAS ON THE ONE TO 3A, BECAUSE WHAT WE DID WAS

 

 

WENT -- WE WERE DOING THE REGULAR GRADIENT

 

 

STUDY---

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. ---I THINK THAT WAS EITHER FEBRUARY -- I GUESS IT

 

 

MUST HAVE BEEN FEBRUARY IN 1991, AND THEN AT THE

 

 

END OF THE DAY, WE JUST FLEW DOWN TO AN AREA IN

 

 

3A AND LOOKED FOR A SITE.

 

 

Q. DID YOU GO TO 2B THAT DAY, ALSO?

 

 

A. I DON'T THINK WE WENT TO 2B THAT DAY. I THINK WE

 

 

MAY HAVE GONE TO THE SITE IN 2A, PROBABLY CLOSE TO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 318

 

 

WHERE OUR DOSING STUDY ACTUALLY ENDED UP BEING

 

 

LOCATED---

 

 

Q. WERE YOU ON---

 

 

A. ---AND THEN WENT DOWN TO 3A THAT SAME DAY.

 

 

Q. WERE YOU ON THE SHIP, THE MARCH 28, 1991, IS THAT

 

 

THE DATE, TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION, THAT

 

 

THE TRIP MIGHT HAVE BEEN TAKEN?

 

 

A. NO, I THINK THE TRIP WAS PROBABLY TO HAVE BEEN

 

 

TAKEN IN FEBRUARY---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---OH, THAT'S WHEN I WENT, YOU KNOW.

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. THESE COULD ACTUALLY BE, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER TRIP

 

 

TO 3A. I JUST REMEMBER IT WAS ON ONE OF OUR

 

 

REGULAR SAMPLING TRIPS, THAT WE JUST TOOK A LITTLE

 

 

JAUNT DOWN TO 3A.

 

 

Q. SO, YOU ARE UNAWARE OF DR. RADER ACTUALLY ENTERING

 

 

THE PARK TO TAKE SAMPLES?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. NO. YOU'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THAT?

 

 

A. RIGHT. YEAH, NO, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY OF IT.

 

 

Q. OKAY. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT A DOCUMENT

 

 

FROM YESTERDAY, CRAFT NUMBER 35. IT'S A -- IT WAS

 

 

HIS FILE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN IT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 319

 

 

OR NOT, BUT I'M JUST GOING TO SHOW IT TO IT.

 

 

IT'S "MERCURY CONTAMINATIONS IN THE EVERGLADES'

 

 

ECOSYSTEM," HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT DOCUMENT?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. OKAY. THAT'S THE LAST QUESTION I WOULD HAVE ON

 

 

THAT DOCUMENT.

 

 

A. OKAY.

 

 

Q. YOU REFER TO MERCURY IN THE EVERGLADES IN ONE OF

 

 

YOUR CHAPTERS, AND AT THE MOMENT, I CAN'T RECALL

 

 

WHERE IT IS, BUT I PROBABLY CAN FIND IT. DO YOU

 

 

RECALL WHERE IT IS? IS IT IN CHAPTER SIX?

 

 

A. OH, FOR -- OH, YEAH. I THINK -- YEAH, I REMEMBER

 

 

REFERRING TO IT SOMEWHERE, BUT I'M NOT EXACTLY

 

 

SURE WHERE. I THINK IT WAS IN CONNECTION WITH

 

 

REDOX POTENTIALS AND---

 

 

Q. CAN YOU HELP ME GET THERE?

 

 

A. ---THAT'S PROBABLY IN CHAPTER SIX.

 

 

Q. I THINK ON PAGE 222. AND THEN THERE MAY BE -- MAY

 

 

HAVE BEEN A REFERENCE SOMEWHERE ELSE. I CAN'T

 

 

RECALL.

 

 

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI REVIEWS DOCUMENTS.)

 

 

Q. ON PAGE 247---

 

 

A. OH, OKAY.

 

 

Q. ---THERE'S TWO -- THERE'S TWO REFERENCES TO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 320

 

 

MERCURY THERE. I'D LIKE TO JUST TAKE A SECOND AN

 

 

LOOK AT THOSE TWO.

 

 

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENTS.)

 

 

MR. McCAUGHAN: BOTH ON 247?

 

 

MS. PONZOLI: ONE'S ON 222, AND ONE

 

 

IS ON 247.

 

 

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) ON 222, YOU SAY THAT "...THERE

 

 

HAS BEEN CONCERN THAT THE NUTRIENT-ENRICHED

 

 

CATTAIL ZONE DID TEND TO HAVE LOW REDOX

 

 

POTENTIALS..."

 

 

A. RIGHT.

 

 

Q. WHICH YOU DID FIND?

 

 

A. WELL, THAT'S BASED ON THE -- THE CONCERN FOR THAT

 

 

WAS BASED ON THE SWIM PLAN, WHERE IT ACTUALLY SAYS

 

 

SOMEWHERE IN THE SWIM PLAN. I THINK THAT WAS

 

 

BASED ON BELANGER'S WORK---

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. ---SHOWING THERE WAS POSSIBLY SOME DIFFERENCES IN

 

 

DISSOLVED ORGANIC AND -- NO -- IN DISSOLVED

 

 

OXYGEN. AND ALSO THERE WAS ANOTHER STUDY DONE BY

 

 

THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, AND I

 

 

READ THIS VERY LONG AGO, THAT I'M KIND OF STILL

 

 

VAGUE ON THAT, BUT IT HAD -- IT WAS SOMETHING

 

 

ABOUT ANAEROBIC METABOLISM, OR ANAEROBIC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 321

 

 

MICROORGANISMS BEING MORE COMMON IN THE CATTAIL

 

 

ZONE, THE ENRICHED ZONE. AND I BELIEVE THAT WAS

 

 

ACTUALLY SPECULATION, BUT I REMEMBER SEEING IT

 

 

CITED AS FACT ONE TIME IN THE SWIM PLAN---

 

 

Q. SURE.

 

 

A. ---WHERE IT WAS ACTUALLY SPECULATION, JUST TO

 

 

POSSIBLY EXPLAIN SOME ODD RESULTS IN THE ORIGINAL

 

 

PAPER.

 

 

Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS SPECULATION?

 

 

A. OH, BECAUSE I READ BOTH VERSIONS, AND THE SWIM

 

 

PLAN HAD IT WRONG.

 

 

Q. OKAY. AND THE OTHER ONE WAS -- TELL ME AGAIN, YOU

 

 

SAID WAS---

 

 

A. THE OTHER ONE WAS A DOCUMENT PUT OUT BY THE SOUTH

 

 

FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT BY -- I THINK,

 

 

BUT I COULDN'T SWEAR TO THIS, THAT IT WAS PAM

 

 

REEDER AND STEVE DAVIS, I BELIEVE---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---AND, YOU KNOW---

 

 

Q. ---YOU SAY---

 

 

A. ---I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AGAIN.

 

 

Q. ---YOU SAY THEY EXTRAPOLATED TOO MUCH IN THE SWIM

 

 

PLAN FROM THAT FIRST DOCUMENT?

 

 

A. RIGHT, SOMEHOW -- YEAH, SOMEHOW IT MADE IT FROM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 322

 

 

SPECULATION TO SAYING THAT THEY ACTUALLY FOUND

 

 

THAT---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---I BELIEVE AT THE TIME THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO

 

 

EXPLAIN WHY THEY FOUND RELATIVE -- THEY FOUND A --

 

 

I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT THIS, SO THIS IS JUST WHAT I

 

 

REMEMBER -- THEY FOUND THAT THERE WERE LOWER

 

 

NUMBERS OF MICROORGANISMS IN THE ENRICHED -- SOME

 

 

OF THE ENRICHED AREAS. AND THEY THOUGHT, WELL,

 

 

THIS MIGHT BE EXPLAINED BY MAYBE THERE ARE JUST

 

 

HIGHER NUMBERS OF ANAEROBIC MICROORGANISMS,

 

 

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ASSAY FOR THAT. AND THEY

 

 

WERE JUST SPECULATING AS TO WHY THERE MIGHT BE

 

 

LOWER NUMBERS OF AEROBIC MICROORGANISMS. AND I

 

 

BELIEVE THAT IN THE SWIM PLAN THAT WAS QUOTED AS

 

 

AN ACTUAL FINDING. AND I THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW,

 

 

THAT WAS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM, THAT, YOU KNOW,

 

 

SOMETHING THAT NEEDED TO BE ADDRESSED. AND THAT

 

 

WAS ONE OF THE PURPOSES FOR LOOKING AT THE REDOX

 

 

POTENTIAL.

 

 

Q. OKAY. BUT YOU DID FIND LOWER REDOX IN YOUR

 

 

ENRICHED CATTAIL ZONE, DID YOU NOT?

 

 

A. NO, NOT -- ONLY SLIGHTLY LOWER. AND, IN MOST

 

 

CASES, IT WAS NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 323

 

 

Q. THAN THE -- THAN THE DENSE SAWGRASS STAND?

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH, YEAH, SO---

 

 

Q. BUT DEFINITELY LOWER THAN THE OPEN WATER

 

 

UNENRICHED SITE?

 

 

A. WELL, NO, WE DIDN'T TAKE ANY REDOX POTENTIALS IN

 

 

THE OPEN WATER ENRICHED SITES.

 

 

Q. BUT YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT THEY WOULD DEFINITELY BE

 

 

LOWER, WOULD YOU NOT?

 

 

A. IN THE OPEN WATER ENRICHED SITES?

 

 

Q. NO, NO, IN YOUR -- IN YOUR SAWGRASS ENRICHED

 

 

SITES, THAN IN AN OPEN WATER UNENRICHED SITE.

 

 

A. OH, NO, IN FACT, I WOULD -- THAT JUST CALLS FOR

 

 

SPECULATION, BUT I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT.

 

 

Q. DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

 

 

A. QUITE POSSIBLY, BUT, YOU KNOW---

 

 

Q. YOU DON'T KNOW?

 

 

A. ---UNTIL WE WOULD ACTUALLY DO SOME REDOX PROFILES,

 

 

I WON'T KNOW.

 

 

Q. HAVE YOU DONE THEM?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. NONE AT ALL?

 

 

A. WE HAVE -- NO, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---IN THE OPEN WATER SLOUGH AREAS. AT LEAST, I

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 324

 

 

HAVEN'T. WE WERE STICKING STRICTLY IN THOSE TWO

 

 

COMMUNITIES THAT WERE DEALT WITH PREVIOUSLY IN

 

 

THOSE OTHER EXPERIMENTS BY BELANGER.

 

 

Q. I MUST -- I MUST HAVE -- I MUST BE TIRED, AND THE

 

 

DAY IS GETTING LONG, AND I'VE BEEN DOING THIS TOO

 

 

MANY DAYS, BUT I THOUGHT WE WENT ALL THROUGH THIS,

 

 

THIS MORNING, AND YOU SAID THAT IN THE OPEN WATER

 

 

AREAS THAT ARE UNENRICHED, WHERE YOU'VE GOT

 

 

SUNLIGHT AND AIR, YOU'RE---

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH.

 

 

Q. ---GOING TO HAVE---

 

 

A. YEAH.

 

 

Q. ---HIGHER DISSOLVED OXYGEN?

 

 

A. YEAH, IN THE SURFACE WATER---

 

 

Q. RIGHT.

 

 

A. ---BUT THAT'S ONLY IN THE SURFACE WATER---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---ABOVE AN ALGAL MAT.

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. ANYWHERE BELOW THAT ALGAL MAT---

 

 

Q. RIGHT.

 

 

A. ---I DON'T REALLY KNOW. BUT I WOULD SUSPECT

 

 

THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE THE CASE BELOW THE ALGAL

 

 

MAT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 325

 

 

Q. DO YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE THE SAME AS YOUR --

 

 

AS YOUR ENRICHED CATTAIL, DENSE MACROPHYTE AREAS?

 

 

A. I DON'T REALLY KNOW.

 

 

Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET'S GO ON THE SECOND

 

 

PART OF THE SENTENCE. YOU SAID "THERE HAS BEEN

 

 

CONCERN THAT IF THE NUTRIENT ENRICHED CATTAIL ZONE

 

 

DID TEND TO HAVE LOW REDOX POTENTIALS" -- I

 

 

UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID---

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ---"MERCURY IN THE SOIL AND THE WATER MIGHT

 

 

UNDERGO UNDESIRABLE TRANSFORMATIONS AND ADD TO THE

 

 

HIGH MERCURY CONCENTRATIONS FOUND IN SOME AREAS OF

 

 

THE EVERGLADES."

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES). RIGHT.

 

 

Q. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT MERCURY METHYLATION, IN

 

 

THESE TYPE OF CONDITIONS?

 

 

A. OH, VERY LITTLE. THAT'S JUST BASICALLY A VERY

 

 

GENERAL STATEMENT, AND -- AND WE'RE TRYING TO SAY,

 

 

YOU KNOW, THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM, YOU KNOW,

 

 

WE NEED TO LOOK AT.

 

 

Q. THE MERCURY PROBLEM?

 

 

A. RIGHT, AS A RATIONALE FOR ACTUALLY DOING THE

 

 

EXPERIMENTS ON REDOX POTENTIAL.

 

 

Q. OKAY. OKAY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 326

 

 

A. AND, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH MERCURY

 

 

AT ALL.

 

 

Q. DO YOU PLAN TO?

 

 

A. IN CONNECTION WITH THOSE EXPERIMENTS, NO.

 

 

Q. DO YOU PLAN TO?

 

 

A. NO.

 

 

Q. YOU HAVE NO PLANS?

 

 

A. NOT---

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. ---NOT MYSELF.

 

 

Q. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE WHO DOES?

 

 

A. I DON'T KNOW.

 

 

Q. HAVE YOU HEARD OF ANYONE WHO'S DOING THIS TYPE OF

 

 

WORK?

 

 

A. I DON'T REALLY KNOW.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. PAGE 247, YOU SAY AGAIN, "BECAUSE

 

 

NATURAL DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER IS A POWERFUL

 

 

AGENT FOR COMPLEXATION OF METALS"---

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ---"IT PLAYS AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN METAL TOXICITY

 

 

(e.g., MERCURY)"---

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ---"METAL EXPORT (e.g., MERCURY AGAIN) AND

 

 

WEATHERING OF ROCK."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 327

 

 

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. OKAY. IS THIS CONCERN JUST THE SAME, THAT MERCURY

 

 

IS A BIG PROBLEM IN THE EVERGLADES, AND THIS IS A

 

 

RATIONALE FOR LOOKING AT REDOX?

 

 

A. THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH. WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING

 

 

SPECIFIC THERE, BUT THAT IS JUST THE REASON, YOU

 

 

KNOW, WHY IS, IN THIS CASE, DISSOLVED ORGANIC

 

 

NITROGEN -- WHY WOULD THAT -- WHAT ROLES MIGHT

 

 

THAT PLAY IN THE ECOLOGY OF THE EVERGLADES. AND

 

 

THAT CERTAINLY IS A ROLE FOR HUMIC SUBSTANCES.

 

 

THEY ARE POWERFUL AGENTS FOR COMPLEXING METALS.

 

 

AND I HAVE READ A COUPLE OF REFERENCES THAT

 

 

MERCURY, WHEN IT'S BOUND BY HUMIC SUBSTANCES CAN

 

 

UNDERGO SOME TRANSFORMATIONS, PARTICULARLY IN

 

 

CONJUNCTION WITH SUNLIGHT. BUT BEYOND THAT, THAT

 

 

WAS STRICTLY JUST HAVING READ A REFERENCE, YOU

 

 

KNOW.

 

 

Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW DR. PATRICK AT LSU?

 

 

A. YES, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF DR. PATRICK DOING ANY MERCURY

 

 

TESTING?

 

 

A. NO. I HAD HEARD SOME -- SOMETHING ABOUT THAT HE

 

 

WAS INTERESTED IN IT.

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 328

 

 

A. BUT I DON'T REALLY KNOW ANY DETAILS.

 

 

Q. IS THIS RECENTLY?

 

 

A. I THINK IT IS FAIRLY RECENTLY.

 

 

Q. BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE PLANS TO DO, OR

 

 

WHERE?

 

 

A. NOT REALLY.

 

 

Q. I WOULD -- I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU JUST A FEW

 

 

QUESTIONS ABOUT SIX, THAT SOMEHOW I HAVEN'T

 

 

COVERED IN THE COURSE OF MY OTHER QUESTIONS, AND

 

 

I'M -- I'M DONE. YOU TALK ABOUT ON 196 AN

 

 

INTERESTING CONCEPT THAT WE WENT BACK AND FORTH

 

 

ON YESTERDAY, A SYSTEM BEGINNING TO COME TO

 

 

EQUILIBRIUM, WITH TWENTY-FIVE TO THIRTY YEARS OF

 

 

NUTRIENT INPUTS FROM THE HILLSBORO CANALS -- IN

 

 

THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE?

 

 

A. YEAH.

 

 

Q. OKAY. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, A SYSTEM BEGINNING TO

 

 

COME TO EQUILIBRIUM?

 

 

A. WHAT I MEANT IN THAT -- AT THAT POINT WAS, THAT

 

 

WHEN WE BEGAN OUR SAMPLING ALONG THE GRADIENT IN

 

 

WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A, IT WAS DURING THAT

 

 

YEAR, I THINK THAT, AT LEAST OFFICIALLY, THE CANAL

 

 

GATES TO THE HILLSBORO CANAL WERE NOT OPENED

 

 

DURING THAT YEAR.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 329

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES). UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. SO, IT PROVIDED US A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO SEE, YOU

 

 

KNOW, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, IF, YOU KNOW, FOR AN

 

 

ENTIRE YEAR YOU SHUT OFF ALL THE INPUTS. AND I

 

 

DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY THAT IT WAS COMING TO ANY SORT

 

 

OF EQUILIBRIUM WITH, YOU KNOW, BEING SATURATED

 

 

WITH PHOSPHORUS, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WHAT I

 

 

REALLY MEANT THERE WAS THAT IT WAS BEGINNING TO,

 

 

YOU KNOW, YOU'VE CUT OFF THE INPUTS, AND IT'S

 

 

BEGINNING TO KIND OF RE-EQUILIBRATE.

 

 

Q. OKAY. BUT ONCE YOU OPEN THE GATES AGAIN, THAT

 

 

WOULD BE DISTURBED, IS THAT -- IS THAT IMPLICIT IN

 

 

YOUR ANSWER?

 

 

A. WELL, YOU KNOW, NOT NECESSARILY DISTURBED, BUT IN

 

 

THE SENSE THAT ONCE YOU OPEN THE GATES AGAIN, IT

 

 

COULD BE SUBJECT TO FURTHER CHANGES, YOU KNOW,

 

 

OBVIOUSLY FURTHER PHOSPHORUS INPUTS.

 

 

Q. OKAY.

 

 

A. BUT WE THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO SEE,

 

 

YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR,

 

 

WHEN THERE WAS NO FURTHER INPUTS.

 

 

Q. OKAY. YOU USED THE WORD, THE MAGIC WORD,

 

 

SATURATED. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY

 

 

SATURATED.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 330

 

 

A. RIGHT.

 

 

Q. IF THAT SYSTEM WERE SATURATED, WHAT WOULD THAT

 

 

MEAN?

 

 

A. I WOULD LIKE TO -- THAT'S OBVIOUSLY, AGAIN, A

 

 

SEMANTIC TERM---

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. ---AND I WOULD DEFINE SATURATION OF A NUTRIENT IN

 

 

A CERTAIN ECOSYSTEM AS WHEN THE OUTPUT OF THE

 

 

NUTRIENT EQUALS THE INPUT OF THE NUTRIENT, AND

 

 

THERE'S NO CHANGE IN THE STORAGE OF THAT NUTRIENT

 

 

OR ELEMENT WITHIN THE SYSTEM. AND, I THINK THAT

 

 

IN A SYSTEM WHICH IS ALWAYS BUILDING PEAT, YOU

 

 

WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO SAY THAT IT'S SATURATED,

 

 

BECAUSE AS LONG AS YOU ARE LAYING DOWN PEAT, YOUR

 

 

INPUTS -- YOUR OUTPUTS WILL ALWAYS BE LOWER THAN

 

 

YOUR INPUTS---

 

 

Q. NOW---

 

 

A. ---EXCEPT FOR SOME TEMPORAL OSCILLATIONS,

 

 

POSSIBLY---

 

 

Q. OKAY. PUTTING---

 

 

A. ---BUT THIS IS MORE OR LESS A THEORETICAL---

 

 

Q. I UNDERSTAND.

 

 

A. ---CONCEPT, YOU KNOW, OF SATURATION. BUT I THINK

 

 

YOU KNOW, THE ONE MOST PERTINENT TO WHAT WE'RE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 331

 

 

INTERESTED IN, IN TRYING TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW,

 

 

WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE STA'S, WHAT'S GOING ON IN

 

 

THE NATURAL SYSTEM THAT'S RECEIVING PHOSPHORUS, IS

 

 

I WOULD USE THAT DEFINITION AS TO WHEN THE OUTPUTS

 

 

WILL EQUAL THE INPUTS, AND THERE WILL NO LONGER BE

 

 

ANY NET ACCUMULATION AND DEPOSITION IN THE SOIL.

 

 

AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WILL HAPPEN. I THINK

 

 

THAT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE DEPOSITION OF PEAT, AND

 

 

ALWAYS BE DEPOSITION OF PHOSPHORUS.

 

 

Q. SO, IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, YOUR DEFINITION

 

 

OF SATURATION WOULD BE THE SAME AS IF IT WERE IN

 

 

EQUILIBRIUM? I DON'T MEAN TO COMPLICATE THINGS.

 

 

IT JUST SOUNDED TO ME AS THOUGH IT'S IN

 

 

EQUILIBRIUM, IF THE INPUTS ARE EQUALLY THE

 

 

OUTPUTS. I DON'T MEAN TO COMPLICATE THIS. IF

 

 

IT'S NOT THE SAME, I'LL LET IT GO.

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH. I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO, YOU KNOW,

 

 

TALK ABOUT EQUILIBRIUM. I WOULD SAY POSSIBLY YOU

 

 

MIGHT APPLY THE WORD EQUILIBRIUM TO THE ENTIRE

 

 

SYSTEM, BUT I DON'T THINK WE COULD APPLY THAT WORD

 

 

EQUILIBRIUM IN THAT CASE, SO---

 

 

Q. OKAY---

 

 

A. ---YOU KNOW, NO, I WOULD -- I WOULD DISAGREE.

 

 

Q. ---WHAT WOULD EQUIL -- WHAT WOULD EQUIL -- WE'LL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 332

 

 

PUT A DIFFERENT DEFINITION ON EQUILIBRIUM. WHAT

 

 

WOULD EQUILIBRIUM MEAN FOR WATER CONSERVATION

 

 

AREA 2A?

 

 

A. I THINK -- I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO BE MUCH MORE

 

 

SPECIFIC THAN THAT, BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE CHANGES

 

 

IN SPECIES, POPULATIONS, YOU COULD HAVE CHANGES IN

 

 

THE VARIOUS FORMS OF THE NUTRIENTS, ALL THINGS

 

 

THAT I WOULD CALL DYNAMIC PROCESSES GOING ON, AND

 

 

STILL POSSIBLY SEE A CASE WHERE, SAY, INPUTS AND

 

 

OUTPUTS STAYED AT A ROUGHLY EQUAL LEVEL OVER THE

 

 

YEARS. SO, I DON'T REALLY THINK WE CAN EVEN, YOU

 

 

KNOW, GENERALIZE THAT MUCH TO SAY WHAT EQUILIBRIUM

 

 

FOR THAT ENTIRE SYSTEM WILL BE.

 

 

Q. DR. QUALLS, WOULD YOU -- WOULD YOU JUST BRIEFLY

 

 

EXPLAIN TO ME HOW YOU DID YOUR WEIGHTED DISTANCES

 

 

THAT ARE ON PAGE 202? WELL, THEY'RE THROUGHOUT

 

 

HERE, BUT---

 

 

A. RIGHT, UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

Q. ---AND I KNOW YOU'VE EXPLAINED THEM IN THE TEXT,

 

 

BUT IF YOU'D JUST DO IT VERBALLY, I'D APPRECIATE

 

 

IT.

 

 

A. YES. BASICALLY WHAT IT IS, IS I MEASURED THE

 

 

DISTANCES. I TOOK AT ANY ONE PARTICULAR POINT,

 

 

LET'S SAY POINT NUMBER D1---

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 333

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. ---MEASURED THE DISTANCE TO THE "D" GATE, ADDED TO

 

 

IT THE DISTANCE TO THE "C" GATE, AND THEN ADDED TO

 

 

THAT THE DISTANCE TO THE "A" GATE, ALTHOUGH

 

 

THERE'S A LITTLE EXCEPTION THERE. BUT JUST FOR

 

 

PURPOSES OF ILLUSTRATION, ADDED UP THE DISTANCES

 

 

TO EACH OF THE THREE GATES, AND -- AND, THEN,

 

 

LET'S SEE, THEN DIVIDED BY THREE. IN OTHER WORDS,

 

 

KIND OF LIKE AVERAGING THE DISTANCES FROM THOSE

 

 

THREE GATES. BUT, THEN I PUT A WEIGHT ON EACH OF

 

 

THOSE DISTANCES, AND I COUNTED THE DISTANCE TO THE

 

 

"D" GATE MUCH MORE THAN THE DISTANCE TO THE "C"

 

 

GATE, BECAUSE IT HAD A HIGHER LOAD OF PHOSPHORUS

 

 

OVER THE YEARS. AND THE LOADS OF PHOSPHORUS THAT

 

 

I HAD USED TO CALCULATE THAT WEIGHTED AVERAGE WERE

 

 

THE ONES THAT WERE QUOTED IN THE SWIM PLAN AS THE

 

 

TOTAL NUMBER OF TONS OF -- METRIC TONS OF

 

 

PHOSPHORUS COMING IN EACH GATE DURING THE PERIOD

 

 

OF -- I THINK IT WAS 1978 TO '89, OR SOMETHING

 

 

LIKE THAT.

 

 

Q. ALL RIGHT. WAS THIS YOUR IDEA?

 

 

A. I THINK SO. YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO

 

 

REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE CONSTANTLY

 

 

DISCUSSING THIS AMONG SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THE LAB,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 334

 

 

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK SO.

 

 

Q. YOU DON'T THINK IT WAS ANYONE ELSE'S IDEA? YOU

 

 

THINK YOU -- YOU -- YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DECIDED TO

 

 

DO WEIGHTED DISTANCES?

 

 

A. I BELIEVE SO.

 

 

Q. YOU SEEM A LITTLE UNSURE.

 

 

A. WELL, NO, I'M JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, NOT TO,

 

 

YOU KNOW -- NOT TO EXCLUDE IF IT WAS ANYBODY

 

 

ELSE'S IDEA---

 

 

Q. IF THEY WANT TO TAKE CREDIT---

 

 

A. ---AND I JUST DON'T REMEMBER.

 

 

Q. ---YOU'LL LET THEM?

 

 

A. RIGHT, YEAH, UH-HUH (YES). I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ALL

 

 

THESE THINGS, WE, WE TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS, AND

 

 

THRASH THEM OUT, AND WE HAVE WEEKLY MEETINGS IN

 

 

THE LAB, YOU KNOW, AS TO WHAT THE BEST APPROACH TO

 

 

ALL THESE THINGS ARE.

 

 

Q. HOW DID YOU DECIDE WHAT WEIGHT TO PLACE ON THE

 

 

VARIOUS -- YOU SAID THAT YOU -- YOU ASCRIBED A

 

 

WEIGHT. HOW DO YOU -- HOW DID YOU MAKE THAT

 

 

DETERMINATION?

 

 

A. THE WEIGHT IS BASED ON THE RELATIVE LOADS OF THE

 

 

PHOSPHORUS THAT CAME THROUGH THE---

 

 

Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU TOLD ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. QUALLS VOLUME II PAGE 335

 

 

THAT, I'M SORRY. I APOLOGIZE.

 

 

A. YEAH.

 

 

Q. DID YOU WORK THIS OUT WITH ANYONE ELSE, OR DID YOU

 

 

DO THIS ALL BY YOURSELF?

 

 

A. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS ACTUALLY DOING THE

 

 

CALCULATIONS, I THINK I JUST LOOKED UP THE LOADS

 

 

IN THE SWIM PLAN---

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. ---AND TOOK A MAP THAT HAD LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE

 

 

ON IT, AND PLOTTED THE POINTS, ACCORDING TO THEIR

 

 

LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE, ACCORDING TO LORAN-C.

 

 

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

A. AND THEN ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY MEASURED THE

 

 

DISTANCES WITH A RULE, AND TYPED THEM INTO A LOTUS

 

 

PROGRAM, AND ADDED THE WEIGHTS AND EVERYTHING.

 

 

NOW, ONE EXCEPTION TO THAT WAS, SINCE WE NEVER SAW

 

 

WATER FLOWING FROM THE S10 GATE TOWARDS THE "D" OR

 

 

"C" TRANSECTS, WE THOUGHT THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE

 

 

WEIGHTED SO MUCH -- YOU SHOUL