1 1 STATE OF FLORIDA DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS 2 3 SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE ) 4 OF FLORIDA, a Florida Agricultural ) Cooperative Marketing Association, ) 5 ROTH FARMS, INC., AND WEDGEWORTH ) FARMS, INC., ) 6 ) and ) 7 ) FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.; ) Nos. 92-3038 8 UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; ) 92-3039 and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC., ) 92-3040 9 ) and ) 10 ) FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE ) 11 ASSOCIATION, LEWIS POPE FARMS, ) W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., ) 12 and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., ) ) 13 Petitioners, ) ) 14 vs. ) ) 15 SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT ) DISTRICT, an Agency of the State ) 16 of Florida, ) ) 17 Respondent, ) ) 18 and ) ) 19 MICCOSUKEE TRIBE OF INDIANS OF ) FLORIDA, the UNITED STATES OF ) 20 AMERICA, and FLORIDA DEPARTMENT ) OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, ) 21 FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION, the ) FLORIDA AUDUBON SOCIETY, and the ) 22 SIERRA CLUB, ) ) 23 Intervenors. ) ___________________________________) 24 25 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 2 1 DEPOSITION OF WALTER PARKER 2 3 1 Clearlake Center, Suite 1403 250 Australian Avenue South 4 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 February 9, 1993 5 9:00 o'clock A. M. 6 7 APPEARANCES: 8 PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK 9 BY: RICK BURGESS, ESQ. One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636 10 Two South Biscayne Blvd. Miami, FL 33131 11 (305) 358-3000 Appearing on behalf of the Petitioners, Florida 12 Sugar Cane League, Inc.; United States Sugar Corporation; and New Hope South, Inc. 13 POPHAM HAIK 14 BY: PATRICK S. COUSINS, ESQ. 100 S. E. Second Street 15 P. O. Box 019101 Miami, FL 33131 16 (305) 530-0050 Appearing on behalf of the Respondent. 17 U. S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 18 BY: GARY S. GUZY, ESQ. 10th & Pennsylvania Avenue, N. W. 19 Washington, D. C. 20530 (202) 514-2689 20 Appearing on behalf of the Intervenors. 21 22 23 24 25 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 3 1 The deposition of WALTER PARKER, a witness 2 of lawful age, taken for the purpose of discovery as 3 evidence in the above-styled cause, pending in the State 4 of Florida, Division of Administrative Hearings, pursuant 5 to Notice, before Debrah Veroni, a Shorthand Reporter and 6 Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, at 7 the time and place aforesaid. 8 ------------------ 9 I N D E X 10 WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT 11 WALTER PARKER 12 By Mr. Guzy 4 By Mr. Burgess 153 13 By Mr. Guzy 154 14 15 EXHIBITS 16 PARKER EXHIBIT PAGE 17 No. 1 92 2 92 18 3 92 4 92 19 5 92 6 92 20 7 92 8 145 21 22 23 24 25 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 4 1 WHEREUPON: 2 WALTER PARKER, 3 called as a witness by the Intervenors, having been first 4 duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. GUZY: 7 Q. Would you please state your name for the 8 record and your address? 9 A. Walter C. Parker, Jr., 608 Ridgeview Circle, 10 Clewiston. 11 Q. Mr. Parker, my name is Gary Guzy. I'm an 12 attorney with the U.S. Department of Justice for 13 Respondent-Intervenors in this action. 14 Have you ever been deposed before? 15 A. Yes, I have. 16 Q. Approximately how many times? 17 A. Probably all together maybe three or four 18 times. I can't remember exactly. 19 Q. What kind of actions were they? 20 A. Primarily related to our H2A Foreign Labor 21 Program litigation brought about. 22 Q. Generally, I take it then you're familiar 23 with the way depositions work? 24 A. Yes, I am. 25 Q. There are three things that I would ask you BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 5 1 to keep in mind during this deposition. One is if at any 2 point you don't understand a question of mine, please ask 3 me to repeat it and I will be happy to do so. I want to 4 make sure that before you answer you understand my 5 question. Also, if you answer verbally, that will help 6 the court reporter to get things down. Lastly, if you 7 want to take a break, just let me know. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. There's coffee in the other deposition room, 10 so you can get that at any time. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. What documents did you review before the 13 deposition today? 14 A. The documents that I had in my file that I 15 handed to you before the start of the deposition. 16 Q. Any others? 17 A. No, sir. 18 Q. Did you receive a notice of this deposition? 19 A. Yes, I did. 20 Q. Did you review that? 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. Did you do anything else to prepare for 23 today's deposition? 24 A. No, sir. Other than meeting with my 25 attorney -- our attorney yesterday. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 6 1 Q. Did you meet with anyone else? 2 A. Bubba Wade was also at that meeting. 3 Q. That was the meeting yesterday with your 4 attorney? 5 A. Yes, it was. 6 Q. Did you have any other conversations with 7 anyone about today's deposition? 8 A. No, sir. 9 Q. Could you tell me a little bit about your 10 educational background. What's the most schooling that 11 you've done? 12 A. Two years of college. 13 Q. Where was that at? 14 A. Palm Beach Junior College in Lake Worth. 15 Q. When was that? 16 A. 1966. 17 Q. Did you complete a degree program? 18 A. No, I did not. 19 Q. What was your area of study there? 20 A. At that time I was studying architectural 21 drafting and design. 22 Q. Have you done any course work since that 23 time? 24 A. No, I haven't. 25 Q. Any seminars or informal training sessions? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 7 1 A. Yes. There has been several, I guess, over 2 the years that may be presented by IFAS or different -- 3 other state agencies that related to our operations that I 4 attended. 5 Q. Are there any that you specifically 6 remember? 7 A. Not really. It's been awhile since I have 8 been to any. I just know over the years -- 9 Q. When do you think you last attended one? 10 A. Probably about four years ago. Four, five 11 years ago. 12 Q. Do you remember what that was about? 13 A. It was on nutrients, fertilizers for 14 sugarcane. 15 Q. How long did that course last? 16 A. A week. 17 Q. Full time for the week? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Were there any course materials that were 20 distributed? 21 A. No, sir, not that I remember. 22 Q. Can you tell me in a little bit more detail 23 what kinds of subjects that course covered? 24 A. Basically it talked about or instructed 25 about soil sampling and analyzing the soil, and then BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 8 1 reading the samples, the analysis from the soil and from 2 that, you know, determining crop nutrient requirements. 3 Q. Did you receive any kind of certification as 4 a result of that course? 5 A. No, sir, not that I remember. 6 Q. How did you come to attend that course? 7 A. Our company asked for it, so we sent a group 8 of people within our department to it. And the University 9 of Florida set it up for us, and it was in Gainesville. 10 Q. Let's go back to I believe it was 1966 when 11 you spent two years in college. What did you do after 12 that? 13 A. Went on active duty with the National 14 Guard. I was in the National Guard at the time. While I 15 was on active duty in the National Guard, I got married 16 and then when I came back I went to work for U.S. Sugar. 17 Q. Was that the first time you had worked for 18 U.S. Sugar? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What year was that? 21 A. 1967. 22 Q. Did you go immediately from high school to 23 Palm Beach Junior College? 24 A. Yes, I did. 25 Q. What was your first position with U.S. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 9 1 Sugar? 2 A. I was a harvest foreman over on harvest 3 crew. 4 Q. Where was that located? 5 A. It was in our Prewitt Plantation in Eastern 6 Division. 7 Q. Is that within the EAA? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Did that involve the harvesting of 10 sugarcane? 11 A. Yes, it did. 12 Q. Was that the only crop involved? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. How long did you hold that position for? 15 A. One year. 16 Q. Then what did you do? 17 A. I became an assistant field chemist working 18 out of the Eastern Division staff office at U.S. Sugar. 19 Q. Where is that office located? 20 A. Bryant, B-R-Y-A-N-T. 21 Q. How long did you hold that position for? 22 A. I can't remember how many years. Maybe 23 three or four. 24 Q. What did you do after that? 25 A. Then I was field chemist. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 10 1 Q. Also in the office in Bryant? 2 A. Yes, yes. 3 Q. How long did you do that for? 4 A. Again, maybe two, three years. 5 Q. What came next? 6 A. Technical assistant for Eastern Division 7 Agriculture, same office. That was until March of '78. 8 Q. After that? 9 A. In March of '78 I left the company and went 10 to work for another farm. I was general manager of 11 Sucrose Growers. It no longer has that name. It's a 12 sugarcane farm. 13 Q. Where was that farm located? 14 A. It's east of Belle Glade. 15 Q. How large an operation is that? 16 A. About 10,000 acres. 17 Q. Is that farm still in existence? 18 A. Not as that. It was purchased by New Hope. 19 Q. When did that purchase occur? 20 A. In 1979 sometime. 21 Q. Is that how long you stayed with them? 22 A. No. I stayed for about a year after that. 23 I left in May of 1980 and went back to work for U.S. 24 Sugar. 25 Q. And assumed what position? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 11 1 A. Technical assistant, but then I worked out 2 of the department head's office in Clewiston with 3 responsibilities for both the Eastern and Western 4 Divisions. 5 Q. How long did you do that for? 6 A. About three or four years again. 7 Q. After that what did you do? 8 A. I think the next step was administrative 9 assistant to the senior vice president. 10 Q. Is that your current position? 11 A. No. My current title is assistant to the 12 senior vice president, which will be the next one. 13 Q. When did you assume this position? 14 A. About four, five years ago. 15 Q. I would like to briefly go back and run 16 through these and get a sense of what your 17 responsibilities were. Starting in 1967 as harvest 18 foreman, what was your assignment? 19 A. Supervise the harvest crew responsible for 20 cutting, loading and hauling, delivering the cane to the 21 mill for that crew. 22 Q. How large is the harvest crew? 23 A. It was a hand-cut crew. It had about 220 24 hand-cut cutters. 25 Q. How large is or was the crew at Prewitt BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 12 1 Plantation back then? 2 A. It was the same size as it is right now. If 3 I can just count up the sections. It looks about 13 or 14 4 sections, a section being 640 acres, so -- 5 Q. I won't make you do the math this early in 6 the morning. That gives me a sense of it, thanks. 7 Were there a number of cutting crews or was 8 there just one that you were a foreman in? 9 A. I was only over one. 10 Q. There were other crews -- 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. -- that worked on that plantation? 13 A. And in that division. 14 Q. You've referred -- and I think for the next 15 position you refer to the Eastern Division. Can you give 16 me a rough idea what kind of breakdowns there were in U.S. 17 Sugar? How is it structured? 18 A. From my department we have the Agriculture 19 Department. We have a department head who is the senior 20 vice president. I report directly to him. We also have 21 in his staff, which is the Agriculture Administration 22 Department, I guess, or section for our department, we 23 have support personnel that work for us with 24 responsibilities over both divisions. Then the two 25 divisions we have are separated geographically by, say, BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 13 1 the City of South Bay and the North River Canal. I guess 2 anything east of that is our Eastern Division. And it 3 runs around the southeast and east of Lake Okeechobee, 4 west and northwest along the west side of Lake 5 Okeechobee. And in each division we have a 6 superintendent. Under him there are two assistant 7 superintendents. And then we have thirteen farm managers, 8 seven in one division and six in another division. And 9 then the farm managers have one, two or three foremen or 10 assistant foremen under them, depending on the size of the 11 farm. 12 Q. What are the other departments within U.S. 13 Sugar in addition to the Agriculture Department? 14 A. I guess probably 10 or 12. 15 Q. Give me a sense of what kinds of things -- 16 A. We have a sugar house, accounting, 17 executive, engineering, research, materials management, 18 materials information, citrus, vegetable, a finance 19 department. I think that's about ten right there. 20 Q. That's pretty good. Let's go back to 1968 21 when you were assistant field chemist. What were your 22 responsibilities there? 23 A. Primarily sampling the cane prior to harvest 24 to see which fields were mature and ready for harvest. 25 Q. How is that process done? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 14 1 A. You have a core sampler that you take out. 2 You literally push it through the stalk and when you pull 3 it out, it brings out the cane. It leaves it in the 4 sampler. You crush the juice and analyze the juice for 5 sugar content. 6 Q. Did you have any specialized training for 7 that position? 8 A. No. Just on-the-job training. 9 Q. I take it as field chemist you did roughly 10 the same? 11 A. Yeah. I just supervised the crew that did 12 the sampling then. 13 Q. Was that for the entire Eastern Division? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What are the responsibilities -- excuse me. 16 What were your responsibilities as technical assistant? 17 A. The technical assistant had overall 18 responsibility for the sampling as well as ordering the 19 fertilizer, ordering the herbicides and insecticides and 20 having them in inventory in our warehouse, advising on 21 rates of application of the herbicides and insecticides, 22 depending on what the pest was. I guess that's about it. 23 Q. Did you have any training for that position? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did you receive any while you were -- excuse BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 15 1 me. Any particular course work or anything like that 2 while you were in that position? 3 A. Not that I remember. I mean there were 4 grower meetings that, you know, they had periodically 5 through IFAS that we attended and different things, but I 6 don't remember specifically any. 7 Q. Back in 1978 was the decision on whether to 8 apply fertilizer and insecticides, herbicides or how much 9 to apply exclusively made by the technical assistant? 10 A. No. 11 Q. How was that decision made? 12 A. We didn't have any responsibility for 13 recommending fertilizer. 14 Q. I thought you had said that -- 15 A. No. We ordered the fertilizer from the 16 fertilizer company and ordered the deliveries and had it 17 spotted in the field, but we didn't make a recommendation 18 on rates of fertilizer. 19 Q. With respect to insecticides and herbicides? 20 A. Yes, we would. We would look at the problem 21 that was there and within the confinements of the label of 22 the product make recommendations as to how much, what 23 chemical to use. 24 Q. What guidelines were you provided, if any, 25 in making those decisions? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 16 1 A. For what? 2 Q. For either rates or types of insecticides 3 and herbicides. 4 A. Primarily just experience, and working with 5 the material, and knowing what its capabilities were, and 6 what the manufacturers' recommended rates were, and what 7 their recommended target pest was. 8 Q. Who was your supervisor during that period? 9 A. Superintendent of Eastern Division. At that 10 time it was -- J.D. Stacy was his name. 11 Q. Did you supervise anyone in that position? 12 A. I had an assistant field chemist who worked 13 underneath my supervision. 14 Q. Is Mr. Stacy still with the company, still 15 alive? 16 A. He's retired. 17 Q. Do you know where he lives? 18 A. No, I don't. 19 Q. Were there any company or corporate 20 guidelines as to application of insecticides or herbicides 21 that you were required to comply with? 22 A. Not that I remember. 23 Q. Why did you leave U.S. Sugar at that period? 24 A. I had the opportunity to become a manager of 25 a farm, and so I accepted another job. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 17 1 Q. What caused you to return to U.S. Sugar? 2 A. J.D. Stacy, when he became vice president of 3 the department and moved to Clewiston, the headquarters, 4 called and asked me if I would come back and work for him 5 in the main office. 6 Q. So Mr. Stacy was the vice president for 7 agriculture? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. When did he retire? 10 A. I can't remember the year, but it was in the 11 early '80s. 12 Q. So you returned to assume the position of 13 technical assistant, but working out of the department 14 head's office? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. How did that differ from what you had been 17 doing before you left? 18 A. Well, it was primarily the same 19 responsibilities except over both divisions rather than 20 just one. 21 Q. What were your responsibilities as 22 administrative assistant to the vice president? 23 A. It got into more administrative type work in 24 that job, working as more or less a liaison with other 25 departments within the company and as a contact person BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 18 1 from our department to other departments, and that's about 2 it, I guess. 3 Q. You reported directly to Mr. Stacy? 4 A. No. He was retired. 5 Q. He was retired by that time? 6 A. Yes. I reported to the vice president of 7 the department head then. 8 Q. Who was that? 9 A. Frank Polhill. 10 Q. Is he still there? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. I take it in your current position you also 13 report to him? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. As administrative assistant to the senior 16 vice president, what staff did you directly supervise? 17 A. I didn't have any direct responsibility for 18 supervising anyone. I just consulted with them primarily. 19 Q. Is that also true with respect to your 20 current position? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. How did your responsibilities change when 23 you became assistant to the senior vice president? 24 A. Well, I guess primarily title more than 25 anything else. But I guess that's about the biggest BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 19 1 change. 2 Q. Have Mr. Polhill's responsibilities changed 3 during the period you have been working for him? 4 A. No. He's always been the department head 5 since I have been working for him. 6 Q. Has he always been a senior vice president? 7 A. No. 8 Q. When did that change occur? 9 A. Two, three years ago. 10 Q. What does that change in name reflect? 11 A. I have no idea. It's a different title. 12 Q. Who supervises the department heads? 13 A. Well, they report to the Executive 14 Department in the company. 15 Q. Is there any person in particular? 16 A. I guess the president would probably be one 17 and the executive vice president. 18 Q. What are your responsibilities now? 19 A. Our department's responsible for the 20 planting, growing and harvesting of the sugarcane crop for 21 the company, so in carrying out those responsibilities. I 22 guess the best way to explain what we do is anything 23 involving our sugarcane crop we manage. 24 Q. How many employees work for the Agriculture 25 Department? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 20 1 A. Well, it varies. During the harvest season, 2 which is now, we have probably around 3,200 employees 3 within our department. During the summer it's down to 4 about probably 500. 5 Q. How many acres of sugarcane are in 6 production? 7 A. This year we'll harvest about 121,000 acres. 8 Q. Are there also fields that lie fallow this 9 year that aren't included in there? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. About how many acres are there? 12 A. I guess it would be around 5 or 6,000. 13 Q. Is the Agriculture Department responsible 14 for growing, planting or harvesting any other crops? 15 A. We do grow rice as a fallow crop in the 16 summer. 17 Q. Any citrus? 18 A. Not in our department, no. That's a 19 different department. 20 Q. Which department is that? 21 A. Citrus. 22 Q. I take it vegetables are in the Vegetable 23 Department? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. Have you ever had any responsibilities for BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 21 1 any of those crops? 2 A. No, I haven't. 3 Q. Are you familiar at all with any debts or 4 the debt structure of U.S. Sugar? 5 A. No, sir, I'm not. 6 Q. Are you familiar with any federal subsidy 7 programs that U.S. Sugar might be involved with? 8 A. No, sir. I know there's a sugar program, 9 but I don't know the details of our participation in it. 10 Q. Who in your mind is the most knowledgeable 11 person about that at U.S. Sugar? 12 A. About -- 13 Q. The corporation's participation in those 14 kinds of programs. 15 A. I don't know who would know the most about 16 it. 17 Q. Do you know how many employees there are 18 overall at the company? 19 A. Well, I've heard the figure of full-time 20 employees -- around 2,800 full-time year round employees. 21 And then I've heard 6,500 seasonal. 22 Q. Is that total or in addition to the 2,800? 23 A. That's total. I'm not counting them. 24 That's just what I've heard. 25 Q. Do you work out of an office? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 22 1 A. Yes, I do. 2 Q. What kinds of files do you maintain in your 3 office? 4 A. Well, my office -- my filing system is not 5 very large, but basically, you know, planting, growing and 6 harvesting information is all I can -- the best way I can 7 describe it. 8 Q. How extensive are your files? 9 A. Not very. 10 Q. Can you give us an example? There's a 11 standard size Xerox paper box sitting to your right. 12 Would it fill up one of those boxes? 13 A. It probably would, yeah. 14 Q. Do you have a few file cabinets? 15 A. I have two filing cabinets. 16 Q. Two filing cabinets. Did you search those 17 filing cabinets to find documents that you brought today? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you search all of your files in order to 20 find those? 21 A. Well, I knew what was there related to this, 22 so I knew where to go to get those. There are certain 23 files -- those files aren't that extensive. And this is 24 all I could find that was responsive to the subpoena. 25 Q. Did you review any other files? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 23 1 A. No, I didn't. 2 Q. Does the Agriculture Department retain 3 files? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What kind of filing system is there? 6 A. I really don't get into their files. 7 Q. Well, when you say, "their files", you have 8 certain supervisory responsibilities for the Agriculture 9 Department; am I right about that? 10 A. Not really. Like I say, I'm consulted about 11 things, but as far as direct supervisory responsibilities, 12 no. 13 Q. Is there a central file for the Agriculture 14 Department? 15 A. No, not that I know of. Each division has 16 files and, you know, that's about it. 17 Q. So the Western Division and the Eastern 18 Division have files? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What sort of files do these divisions 21 maintain? 22 A. I'm not sure. I've never been in them. 23 Q. Where are they located? 24 A. Eastern and Western Division offices. 25 Q. Eastern Division is located where? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 24 1 A. Clewiston. 2 Q. Does U.S. Sugar have any corporate policy 3 for retention of files? 4 A. Not that I'm aware of. 5 Q. Do you have any personal policy about 6 retention of files? 7 A. No, I don't. 8 Q. Does the Agriculture Department have any 9 policy? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Are you aware that you've been designated as 12 a fact witness in these proceedings? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Are you aware of the areas of testimony that 15 have been indicated for you? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Would you tell me, Mr. Parker, what you 18 intend to testify to at the final hearing with respect to 19 U.S. Sugar agricultural operations? 20 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form of the 21 question. I think the witness is going to respond to 22 questions at the time of the hearing. I think it's within 23 his expectation that he's going to testify to one thing or 24 another. 25 MR. GUZY: Well, he can answer that? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 25 1 MR. BURGESS: Yes. 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. I would guess by my 3 position I would be asked to respond to questions about 4 our agricultural operations regarding planting, growing 5 and harvesting the sugarcane crop. 6 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Have you formulated any of 7 that testimony yet? 8 A. No, I haven't. 9 Q. Have you had discussions with anyone about 10 that testimony? 11 A. No, I haven't. 12 Q. What about with respect to BMPs? 13 A. I can speak to BMPs that we may have in 14 practice in going -- in our operations, as part of our 15 operations. 16 Q. Have you formulated any of your testimony 17 with respect to BMPs yet? 18 A. No, sir, I haven't. 19 Q. Have you had any discussions with anyone 20 about that testimony? 21 A. No, sir. 22 Q. What about the impact of the SWIM Plan? 23 What can you testify to about that? 24 A. I really don't know what the impact is. 25 Q. Have you formulated any testimony about BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 26 1 that? 2 A. No, sir. 3 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form of the 4 question about the witness formulating testimony. The 5 witness is going to respond to questions and answers with 6 respect to things within his sphere of knowledge and those 7 things that are on the witness list with respect to his 8 potential areas of testimony. And I think it's improper 9 to ask a fact witness whether he's formulated testimony in 10 any regard. 11 MR. GUZY: I think you had responded to that 12 question already anyway. 13 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Have you consulted with 14 anyone about testimony on the impact of the SWIM Plan? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Have you given anyone your opinion about the 17 impact of the SWIM Plan? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Have you done any analysis of the SWIM Plan? 20 A. No, sir. 21 Q. Have you read it? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. Have you read any of the drafts of the SWIM 24 Plan? 25 A. No, sir. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 27 1 Q. I take it you haven't written any comments 2 about it? 3 A. That's correct. I have not. 4 Q. Who made the determination about what your 5 areas of testimony as a fact witness would be? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. I take it you did not? 8 A. That's correct. I did not. 9 Q. Have you had any discussions with any other 10 individuals who have been identified as fact witnesses for 11 U.S. Sugar concerning their projected areas of testimony? 12 A. I don't know who has been identified as fact 13 witnesses for the company. 14 Q. Have you ever reviewed the witness 15 designation list in this proceeding? 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. Have you ever had any discussions with 18 anyone about that? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. When did you first learn that you had been 21 designated as a fact witness? 22 A. A couple of months ago, the best I can 23 remember, I was told. 24 Q. Who told you that? 25 A. Bubba Wade. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 28 1 Q. What did Mr. Wade tell you? 2 A. That I was going to be a witness in this 3 case. 4 Q. How did it come up? 5 A. He picked the phone up and called me and 6 told me, I guess. 7 Q. What was the context of that conversation? 8 A. I don't remember the exact words. 9 Q. The subject matter of the conversation was 10 what, generally? 11 A. That I was going to be a witness in the 12 suit. 13 Q. That was all? 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. Did Mr. Wade say anything else? 16 A. Not that I recall. 17 Q. Did you have any response? 18 A. No, I didn't. 19 Q. Do you remember in any more detail when that 20 conversation occurred? 21 A. No, sir. I'm not even sure about the two 22 months. I can't remember. We're right in the middle of 23 our harvest season. With so many things going on, I just 24 can't remember exactly. 25 Q. You were in the middle of harvest season BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 29 1 when that occurred, the telephone call? 2 A. It seems to me that we were. 3 Q. Now, have you had any discussions with 4 individuals who have been designated as expert witnesses 5 on behalf of U.S. Sugar in this proceeding? 6 A. I don't know who's been designated as an 7 expert witness. 8 Q. Have you attended any litigation strategy 9 meetings or anything like that? 10 A. No, sir. 11 Q. Have you had any other meetings with your 12 counsel than the one you described yesterday? 13 A. In the request for discovery there was some 14 information that we produced for Burgess. 15 Q. Any other contact? 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. Have you ever reviewed the administrative 18 petition filed by U.S. Sugar in this proceeding? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Are you familiar with it? 21 A. I know our company is quite concerned about 22 the SWIM Plan, and they're doing a lot of things to try to 23 find a better solution. But that's as far as -- as much 24 as I know about it. I know they're working hard on it. 25 Q. Have you ever had any discussions with BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 30 1 anyone about the nature of your company's concerns about 2 the SWIM Plan? 3 A. No, sir. 4 Q. Do you have any particular knowledge about 5 impacts to the Everglades Ego System as a result of U.S. 6 Sugar farming practices? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. More generally, as a result of EAA farming? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. There are a number of assertions in that 11 petition. You said you haven't read it, but I just want 12 to run through them. I think I know what your answers 13 will be, but I just want to be certain. 14 A. Okay. 15 Q. A number of the assertions go to impacts on 16 the Everglades in general and what the current state of 17 the Everglades is from an ecological perspective. Do you 18 have any particular knowledge about that? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Any knowledge about federal government or 21 South Florida Water Management District activities and how 22 those activities may affect the ecological health of the 23 Everglades Ego System? 24 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form of the 25 question, overbroad. You can answer. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 31 1 THE WITNESS: I read the paper. I know, you 2 know, what's going on with every party involved in it from 3 reading the papers, but that's about it. 4 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Nothing from your employment 5 with U.S. Sugar? 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. Do you have any particularized knowledge 8 about allegations concerning other factors which might 9 affect the health of the Everglades Ego System such as 10 muck fire, freeze protection, population increases, things 11 like that? 12 A. No, sir, not other than what I read in the 13 papers. 14 Q. Are you familiar with whether there have 15 been water quality standards violations in the Everglades 16 Ego System? 17 A. No, sir. 18 Q. Do you have any experience with permit 19 application procedures with the Water Management District? 20 A. No, sir. 21 Q. With the Department of Water Relations? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. I take it you don't have any experience with 24 some specifics like mixings on specific criteria, 25 equitable abatement, any of those things? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 32 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Is the answer the same with respect as to 3 whether the SWIM Plan complies with various laws and 4 regulations? 5 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 6 THE WITNESS: I don't know how to answer 7 it. I don't know whether it's a yes or no. 8 MR. GUZY: Let me restate it then. 9 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Is the answer the same with 10 respect as to whether the SWIM Plan complies with various 11 laws and regulations? 12 A. Yes. The answer is the same, which is no. 13 Q. You don't have any particularized knowledge 14 about that? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And about implementation costs of the 17 proposed SWIM remediation, whether those are accurately 18 estimated? Do you have any particularized knowledge about 19 that? 20 A. No, sir. 21 Q. Do you have any particularized knowledge 22 about whether the SWIM Plan -- excuse me. Whether the 23 settlement agreement in the federal litigation led to some 24 kind of impermissible contract? 25 A. No, sir. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 33 1 MR. GUZY: Off the record for a second. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Are you aware of any physical 4 changes that U.S. Sugar farming operations might suffer as 5 a result of implementing the SWIM Plan remedies? 6 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 8 MR. GUZY: Before you answer can I 9 understand what this objection is about? 10 MR. BURGESS: Physical changes? I don't 11 know what you mean by that. I don't know if he knows what 12 you mean. Object to the form. I think the question is 13 vague. 14 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) I would refer you to the 15 allegation of the U.S. Sugar petition, particularly 16 paragraph 33, pages 12 and 13. 17 MR. BURGESS: I think it's fine if you give 18 the witness the context you're asking the question. 19 That's permissible. Without it I don't think he can 20 formulate an answer. 21 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) I will be happy to show you 22 this. I'm not going to introduce it as an exhibit, 23 because it's already in circulation. But this is an 24 allegation from your company's petition, the highlighted 25 sections there. And I would ask you to read that, BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 34 1 please. I'll just switch copies with you for a second. 2 Thanks. 3 I take it from your testimony before that 4 you've never seen this before? 5 A. That's correct. I have not seen it. 6 MR. BURGESS: I will just note for the 7 record that the paragraph the witness has been shown talks 8 about the effects that may be suffered by the petitioners, 9 plural, and that the context of the petition refers not 10 only to United States Sugar Company, but also Florida 11 Sugar League and New Hope South. 12 MR. GUZY: Thank you for that 13 clarification. 14 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Are you aware of any physical 15 changes, as that term seems to be used in this paragraph, 16 that U.S. Sugar farming operations might suffer, as that 17 term is used, as a result of implementing any of the 18 provisions of the SWIM Plan? 19 A. Not knowing what all the provisions of the 20 SWIM Plan is, I don't think I could respond to what 21 physical damages may occur. 22 Q. You're not aware of any; is that right? 23 A. Well, all I know is if we can't drain our 24 fields, then the crops will suffer. 25 Q. When you say if you can't drain your fields, BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 35 1 what do you mean? 2 A. If that's one of the regulatory policies and 3 programs and if it prevents us from getting the water off 4 of our cane when there's too much water on the cane, then 5 the cane of course will die. 6 Q. Are you aware of whether that kind of 7 provision is part of the SWIM Plan? 8 A. No. That's what I said. If one of the 9 policies of the program prevents you from getting water 10 off the cane when it needs to come off, then the cane will 11 die. It can't grow under water. 12 Q. What about the next clause there, "will 13 impair existing permit rights"? Are you aware of any way 14 in which the SWIM Plan would impair existing -- 15 A. I'm not familiar with "impair existing 16 permit rights". 17 Q. Are you familiar with any of the specifics 18 concerning water management activities? 19 A. What do you mean by "water management 20 activities"? 21 Q. The next clause says, "will adversely affect 22 their substantial interests and ability to conduct 23 essential water management activities on their property to 24 protect their crops and farming operations". 25 A. Yes. That's what I was talking about before BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 36 1 when I stated that if as a result of any program we were 2 not able to get the water off of our property and off the 3 cane properly, then of course the crop would suffer. 4 Q. Is it a fair statement to say that you're 5 not aware of any specific provisions of the SWIM Plan that 6 would affect your ability to move the water in the way 7 you've described; is that a fair statement? 8 A. I think I've already stated I don't know 9 what all the provisions of the SWIM Plan are. I think I 10 have already made that statement. I'm only saying is that 11 if one of them -- it will not let us get the water off of 12 the cane, then the cane crop's going to suffer. 13 Q. Are you aware of any provisions of the SWIM 14 Plan that create that problem for you? 15 A. I'm not aware of any provisions at all of 16 the SWIM Plan. 17 Q. Fair enough. Are you aware of whether the 18 SWIM Plan either rightly or wrongly assigns to the EAA 19 responsibility toward the protection and restoration of 20 the Everglades protection area? I'm referring now, if you 21 want to look at it, to page 3, paragraph 4-D there. If 22 you can tell me if you have any particularized knowledge 23 about that, I would appreciate it. That last paragraph on 24 the page. 25 A. What's the question? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 37 1 Q. Do you have any particularized knowledge 2 about that allegation? 3 A. No, sir. 4 Q. Have you had discussions with anyone about 5 changes in farming practices that might result from 6 implementing the SWIM Plan? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. Other than what you told me before about the 9 concern if, as you said, water -- you're unable to move 10 water off of the sugarcane crops, there may be an impact, 11 do you have any other opinions or concerns about 12 implementing the SWIM Plan? 13 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form of the 14 question. 15 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. Like I said 16 before, all I know is our company is working quite hard 17 against the SWIM Plan as it currently stands, so there 18 must be good reasons for them to fight it like that. 19 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) I think you said before that 20 you hadn't read the March 13, 1992, SWIM Plan, am I right 21 about that? 22 A. That's correct. I have not read it. 23 Q. Any of the supporting technical documents? 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. Any of the drafts? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 38 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Have you given any consideration to 3 alternatives to the SWIM Plan? 4 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't know what you mean. 6 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Have you given any thought to 7 other means for achieving the goals of the SWIM Plan than 8 are currently -- other than as currently adopted by the 9 Water Management District? 10 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 11 THE WITNESS: I don't know what the goal of 12 the SWIM Plan is, so I don't know if I can answer your 13 question. 14 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Have you considered any other 15 means for reducing nutrient impacts from farm field crops 16 other than those already in the SWIM Plan? 17 A. I don't know what's in the SWIM Plan. 18 Q. Have you had any discussion along those 19 lines with anyone where you specifically talked about 20 alternatives? 21 A. No. You know, all we have is what I gave 22 you there, which is a phosphorus reduction program through 23 reduced pumping practices. 24 Q. By "there" you're referring to the documents 25 that you brought with you today -- BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 39 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. -- in response to our deposition notice? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. We will get to those later. I appreciate 5 that. 6 Have you reviewed any of the economic impact 7 analyses that's been done of the SWIM Plan? 8 A. No, sir. 9 Q. I take it then you haven't critiqued it if 10 you haven't reviewed it. 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. When was U.S. Sugar incorporated? 13 A. I think in 1931. 14 Q. What kind of entity is it? 15 A. It's a private company. Around 46 or 47 16 percent of the stock is owned by the employees through a 17 lease option. The balance of the stock is owned by the 18 Mott Charitable Trust I think is the name of it. Mott 19 Children's Foundation, the Mott family. 20 Q. Do you know when U.S. Sugar first began 21 sugarcane production? 22 A. 1931 when it was -- when it became U.S. 23 Sugar. 24 Q. What kind of farming did the company engage 25 in then back in the early '30s? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 40 1 A. Sugarcane. 2 Q. How many acres? 3 A. I don't know how large the farms were back 4 then. 5 Q. Was there an original farming area? 6 A. I'm not sure what the original site of the 7 farms were. 8 Q. Are you familiar with the history of U.S. 9 Sugar's farming up until the time you became an employee? 10 A. I don't know what you mean by "familiar". I 11 mean I grew up in the area, so I knew they were there. 12 Q. Do you know basically where and when areas 13 came into production? 14 A. No. 15 MR. GUZY: Off the record. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Has additional land come into 18 production for sugarcane farming since you have been 19 associated with the company? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Can you summarize that for us, please? 22 Where and when areas came into production? 23 A. Primarily on the west side of the lake and 24 the sand line areas that were formerly -- was formerly 25 pasture land. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 41 1 Q. And that's how much property? 2 A. I'm really not sure how many acres. I don't 3 have a guess right now. 4 Q. When did that area get converted? 5 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form of the 6 question. I think there's been testimony that there was 7 one area. The witness has been associated with U.S. Sugar 8 at two different times during his employment career, and I 9 don't think we're -- I don't think the question is clear, 10 and I think it's giving the witness trouble answering it. 11 THE WITNESS: I don't know, you know, at 12 what time what area came into production in the 26 years 13 that I first started working for the company. I can't 14 remember. 15 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) The areas on the west side of 16 the lake, have they been added over time or was there one 17 or two large additions? 18 A. I don't know. I mean I just can't 19 remember. It's been so far back that I just can't 20 remember. 21 Q. U.S. Sugar also owns processing mills for 22 sugarcane? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. How many of those? 25 A. Two. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 42 1 Q. Which are those? 2 A. The Bryant Sugar House and the Clewiston 3 Sugar House. 4 Q. Does all the sugar from the acreages you 5 were talking about before that's currently in production, 6 does all of that sugar go to one of those two mills? 7 A. No. We also have cane that goes to the 8 sugarcane Growers Cooperative of Florida. 9 Q. Is there some geographic division as to 10 which cane goes where? 11 A. Yes. Primarily the Eastern Division cane 12 goes to Bryant Sugar House and the Western Division cane 13 goes to Clewiston Sugar House. 14 Q. Which goes to the co-op? 15 A. There's some acreages in both divisions that 16 go to the co-op. 17 Q. Is there sugar that's not grown by U.S. 18 Sugar that goes to the U.S. Sugar mills? 19 A. Yes, there is. 20 Q. Do you know about how much? 21 A. About 45,000 acres. 22 Q. Who farms those acres? 23 A. There's about 30 growers, 35, somewhere 24 along there. 25 Q. Are they concentrated in any particular BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 43 1 geographic area? 2 A. No. There's some in both divisions. 3 Q. Do they just sell their cane to U.S. Sugar? 4 What kind of arrangement does U.S. Growers have? 5 A. Yes, yes. 6 Q. Who makes the decision about where to farm 7 and when? Basically whether areas are added to -- let's 8 start with whether areas are added to or acquired by U.S. 9 Sugar. Who makes that decision? 10 A. The Executive Department. 11 Q. Anyone in particular? 12 A. I guess Mr. Fairbanks. 13 Q. Who makes the decision about which areas lie 14 fallow and which areas are actually grown for a particular 15 growing period? 16 A. Mr. Polhill. 17 Q. What are some of the considerations there, 18 do you know? 19 A. You would have to ask him. 20 Q. Who makes the decision about which areas to 21 plant and when to plant? 22 A. Mr. Polhill. 23 Q. Do you participate in those kinds of 24 decisions? 25 A. Yes. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 44 1 Q. Can you summarize what the considerations 2 are? 3 MR. BURGESS: Is this with respect to what 4 to plant and where to plant? I'm sorry. Is that the 5 pending question? 6 MR. GUZY: Which areas to plant and when. 7 MR. BURGESS: Okay. 8 THE WITNESS: Well, when the stand in the 9 field has deteriorated to the point where nothing's going 10 to come back, then you disk it up and replant it. 11 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Is there a common expectation 12 about how many years that is or how many growing seasons? 13 A. No. It just depends on the area, soil type 14 and the climate. 15 Q. So it may vary over U.S. Sugar's holdings in 16 this area? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What would be a range? 19 A. It would vary from no crops to probably -- 20 we have a few maybe eight or nine years old. 21 Q. Is there some kind of management unit that's 22 used for making these decisions? I know you referred 23 before to section. Is that what you might consider a 24 management unit for U.S. Sugar's farming? 25 A. We have farms and within the farms there are BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 45 1 sections. Is that what you mean? 2 Q. Yes. I'm trying to understand how decisions 3 are made with respect to basically planting and eventually 4 with respect to harvesting. I wonder if they're made at 5 the level of each individual field, or general geographic 6 areas, or farms, or sections? 7 A. No. They're looked at -- each field is 8 looked at. 9 Q. Again, how many farms are there within each 10 division? 11 A. Well, there's a total of around 20 or 21 12 farms. They fall under the management of 13 farm 13 managers. Some farm managers have more than one farm 14 under their management. 15 Q. I see. What kind of decision making 16 authority do the farm managers have? What's their role? 17 A. Well, they mainly advise if they see 18 something. They don't have the final say-so as to when to 19 disk up and replant a field. 20 Q. And that decision, as you said, rests with 21 Mr. Polhill? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. Is subsidence a concern to U.S. Sugar's 24 farming of sugarcane in this area? 25 A. Not really. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 46 1 Q. Is it something that you would say is 2 occurring in this area? 3 A. Yeah, it's occurring. 4 Q. When you say it's not really a concern, what 5 do you mean? 6 A. It's not occurring at a rate -- in the 26 7 years that I have been with them, I have not seen a field 8 that's come out of production because of subsidence. 9 Q. During those 26 years how much subsidence 10 have you observed in these areas? 11 A. I have no guess as to what it would be. I 12 have no measure to go by. 13 Q. Does anyone at U.S. Sugar take those kinds 14 of measurements? 15 A. I don't know. 16 Q. Does the level of organic soils underneath 17 the -- let me phrase it this way. Does the thickness of 18 the organic soils underneath the crop vary from farm field 19 to farm field at U.S. Sugar? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What might be the range of that? 22 A. I don't know. I haven't done any probing. 23 Q. Do you know if anyone does? 24 A. No. Maybe in our Research Department. 25 Q. Do you manage at all differently depending BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 47 1 upon the thickness of the muck? 2 A. Manage how? 3 Q. Manage the farming. 4 A. In what way? 5 Q. That's what I'm asking you. Is there 6 anything you do differently depending upon how thick the 7 muck is? 8 A. We know the cane still has to be planted, 9 and cultivated and harvested. We don't have separate 10 operations within any of those planting, growing or 11 harvesting operations because of where it's at. 12 Q. Any affect on water management practices as 13 a result of that? 14 A. Primarily you go by the elevation of the 15 ground rather than by the thickness of the muck, as far as 16 your water management practices. 17 Q. What fertilizers does U.S. Sugar use in the 18 growing of sugarcane? 19 A. Our Research Department takes the soil 20 samples from our fields. They make the soil test, do the 21 soil test. They make the fertilizer recommendations based 22 on the soil test. They register those as a mixture number 23 and give it to us as a mixture number and the right 24 maker. We don't see the analysis of the fertilizer. We 25 only see the mixture number for the field in so many BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 48 1 pounds per acre. 2 Q. A mixture number in lay terms means what? 3 A. Number 48, number 101. 4 Q. What kind of scale is that on? What do the 5 numbers designate? 6 A. It's just a number. It's that mix is a 7 mixture number 48. 8 Q. It's a mix of soil and fertilizer? 9 A. No. It's a mix of -- it's the analysis of 10 the fertilizer that you would put out that identifies 11 that, and all we know it by is a mixture number. 12 Q. I see. You don't know anything about the 13 composition of the fertilizer? 14 A. No. 15 Q. You get an instruction then from the 16 Research Department that says use this particular kind of 17 fertilizer, referring to it by number; is that fair to 18 say? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. Are you instructed as to the amount to 21 apply? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Who makes that determination? 24 A. Research Department. 25 Q. Do you deal with individuals in that BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 49 1 department? 2 A. I think the recommendations come from Hank 3 Andres. 4 Q. What is his position? 5 A. He's the department head. 6 Q. Is there any back and forth ever as to the 7 appropriateness of the recommendation? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Does your department then carry out those 10 recommendations? 11 A. That's correct. We don't have to worry 12 about that. The Research Department takes care of it for 13 us. So it's one less thing for us to have to worry about. 14 Q. What different mixtures are used? 15 A. I have no idea. 16 Q. Do you have a ballpark estimate? 17 A. No, sir, I sure don't. 18 Q. Could it be more than a thousand different 19 mixtures? 20 A. I don't know. I don't have them in my 21 files, and I don't deal with them. 22 Q. You don't deal with that at all? 23 A. I just know that's how it happens. 24 Q. Who would know about how many mixtures there 25 are? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 50 1 A. The superintendent would know and I think -- 2 well, he might -- I think you're going to depose Wayne 3 Beardsley. He's a superintendent. He would know. 4 Q. It's basically at the division level then 5 where those decisions are made? 6 A. What decisions? 7 Q. I'm sorry. That people are familiar with 8 implementing the recommendation for the Research 9 Department. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. That's where it would be? 12 A. Yes. At the division level. 13 Q. Has that been the practice in the 26 years 14 that you've been with the company? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you know what the Research Department 17 looks for when it makes that analysis? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Do you know what their goal is with respect 20 to fertilizer? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you know if they use phosphorus? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. Do you know in what form? 25 A. No, sir. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 51 1 Q. How is the application quantified? Is there 2 a per acre rate or a linear foot rate? 3 A. It's pounds per acre. 4 Q. Is there a standard practice with respect to 5 the U.S. Sugar fields or does that vary field per field 6 how many pounds per acre? 7 A. It will vary. 8 Q. What is the range of that? 9 A. I don't remember. It's been so long since 10 I've dealt with it. 11 Q. Again, the people who would know are the 12 Research Department and the superintendents? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Is that something that's changed over the 15 years, the pounds per acre? 16 A. I don't know. Like I say, I have not dealt 17 with it in 12, 15 years, probably, directly. 18 Q. I take it you also wouldn't know whether the 19 mixtures themselves have changed; the nature of the 20 fertilizers used? 21 A. That's correct. I wouldn't know. 22 Q. Are you familiar with particular brand names 23 of fertilizers that are used or sources for fertilizers? 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. What about the application of herbicides? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 52 1 Was it done in the same way? Was the decision whether to 2 apply herbicides made also by the Research Department? 3 A. No, sir. 4 Q. That's something that's made by the 5 Agriculture Department? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. How is that decision made? 8 A. By observing the field, and looking at the 9 condition and what the pest is, and applying whatever 10 pesticide is necessary to eliminate the pest. 11 Q. Is the decision as to which herbicide or 12 pesticide to use made by the Agriculture Department? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What level on that chain is that decision 15 made? 16 A. Well, the farm managers, superintendents, 17 the foreman. 18 Q. I think you told me before, am I right, that 19 there's really not any particular company guidance as to 20 which herbicides or pesticides to use? 21 A. That's correct. There's a very limited 22 number of herbicides labeled for use on sugarcane and the 23 same for insecticides. So we don't have a wide range of 24 choices. 25 Q. About how many are indicated for use? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 53 1 A. Probably less than a half a dozen I would 2 say. 3 Q. Which does U.S. Sugar use? 4 A. Which herbicides? 5 Q. Sure. Let's start with that. 6 A. Asulox, Atrazine, Evik, Round-up. That's 7 about it, I guess. 8 Q. And pesticides? 9 A. Primarily I guess Asana. Then we use a soil 10 insecticide at planting, Mocap or Thimet. 11 Q. That's immediately prior to planting? 12 A. At the time it's planted. 13 Q. At the time a root stalk is planted? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Is it planted with that pesticide? 16 A. Well, the stalk is laid in the furrow and 17 the covering rig that covers the cane up -- just prior to 18 covering it drops in the soil the insecticide such as 19 Mocap. There's several on the market. 20 Q. Is there any training for herbicide or 21 pesticide applicators? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What kind of training? 24 A. They're licensed and the supervisors are 25 licensed as mixer/loaders. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 54 1 Q. Do you have any supervisor responsibilities 2 with respect to making sure that they're doing their job 3 as they're supposed to? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Who does? 6 A. The superintendent. 7 Q. In general, with respect to storage of these 8 materials and disposal of them, who has the responsibility 9 at U.S. Sugar to ensure that regulations are complied 10 with? 11 A. Again, the superintendents. 12 Q. Is there an Environmental Department? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. It's a separate department? 15 A. Yes. I forgot to mention that one when I 16 named the other ten. 17 Q. Do you have any contact with that 18 department? 19 A. What do you mean by "contact"? Have I ever 20 spoken to them? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. About what kinds of things? 24 A. Nothing in particular. But I mean they deal 25 primarily with the superintendents on matters involving BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 55 1 the environment. 2 Q. When you described before your 3 responsibilities as concerning liaison with other 4 departments, would that include the Environment 5 Department? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What kind of things do you act as liaison 8 with? 9 A. Anything that may come up involving our 10 department or their department. 11 Q. Can you give me some examples? 12 A. I can't think of any. We have -- you know, 13 he meets with our people and observes what we do as the 14 environmental compliance officer for the company. 15 Q. That's what you mean by "he"? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Who is that? 18 A. Peter Briggs. 19 Q. Does Mr. Briggs have a staff? 20 A. He's got a secretary. But he has an 21 environmental committee within the company, and people 22 from different departments -- 23 Q. Serve on that committee? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Who from the Agriculture Department serves BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 56 1 on that committee? 2 A. We have Mike Dyal, D-Y-A-L. 3 Q. D-Y-A-L? 4 A. Uh-huh. 5 Q. What is his position? 6 A. He's technical assistant, I believe. I'm 7 not sure. 8 Q. Which office is he in? 9 A. Or technical director. He's technical 10 director, and he works out of our office. 11 Q. What are his responsibilities? 12 A. Basically the same as what the technical 13 assistant's description was in the past. But he also is 14 our environmental point man for our department you might 15 say. 16 Q. Have you had any discussions with Mr. Briggs 17 about any concerns of nutrient runoff from north fields? 18 A. No. 19 Q. How about Mr. Dyal? 20 A. No. 21 MR. GUZY: Let's take a five-minute break. 22 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 23 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Mr. Patrick, when we were 24 talking about -- 25 MR. BURGESS: Parker. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 57 1 MR. GUZY: Excuse me, Parker. 2 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) When we were talking before 3 about the SWIM Plan and your testimony that you hadn't 4 read or analyzed the SWIM Plan and its considered effect 5 upon your sugarcane farming operation; is that an accurate 6 statement? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Has anyone in the Agriculture Department 9 made that kind of analysis? 10 A. No, sir. 11 Q. Do you know who at the company has done that 12 kind of analysis? 13 A. No. Unless it's Bubba Wade. In fact, I 14 have been told that I will need to review the SWIM Plan 15 and read up on it and do that, but I have not done it yet. 16 Q. I think we had been talking, before we took 17 our break, about herbicides and pesticides and their use. 18 Are there other agricultural chemicals that U.S. Sugar 19 uses? 20 A. No, sir, not that I remember. 21 Q. Do you use any desiccants in your process? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Any ripeners? 24 A. We use ripeners, yes. A plant growth 25 regulator. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 58 1 Q. Are you able to give me brand names for -- 2 A. We use Polado, P-O-L-A-D-O. 3 Q. And for the plant growth regulator is that 4 the same? 5 A. It's the same. 6 Q. It's the same? 7 A. Yeah. That's a water ripener, basically. 8 Q. How is that applied? 9 A. Aerial. 10 Q. Who makes the determination whether to apply 11 the ripener? 12 A. The overall policy as to how much -- how 13 many fields to treat is made by the department head. 14 Q. Do you participate in that decision? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What are the considerations? 17 A. Basically if it's going to be harvested 18 prior to or the middle of December, then you would put a 19 ripener on it. 20 Q. The harvest season runs from when to when? 21 A. It starts about the third week in October 22 and will run to about the third or fourth week in March. 23 Q. What is the rate of application of the 24 ripener? 25 A. We have two different rates; two ounces and BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 59 1 five ounces per acre. 2 Q. And each rate signifies what? 3 A. Pardon? 4 Q. Why are there two rates? Each rate 5 signifies what? 6 A. We put the higher rate on fields that are 7 going to be disked up and abandoned, and the lower rate on 8 the fields that are not going to be abandoned. 9 Q. What percentage of the fields on an annual 10 basis are disked up and abandoned? 11 A. I don't know if we have a percentage or 12 not. We usually plant anywhere from probably 20 to 28,000 13 acres every year. It varies from year to year. 14 Q. How is the planting process done? You had 15 mentioned disking. 16 A. Yeah. You prepare the land and then you 17 have a furrow plow that opens up a furrow. You have the 18 seed cane cut already, and you just haul your seed cane 19 from the seed field to the field you're going to plant. 20 Wagons are pulled through the field, and there are four 21 people on the wagon and four walking behind the wagon. 22 They drop the seed cane off in the furrow. The ones 23 behind it chop it up into sections about three feet long 24 and plant -- each crew will plant four rows at a time as 25 it goes through the field. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 60 1 Q. What is the season for harvesting of rice? 2 A. Rice harvest usually starts the first week 3 in July and should be completed probably by the end of 4 August. 5 Q. When is planting done for the rice? 6 A. The planting is done around the first of 7 March -- begun. 8 Q. How many acres of planting rice, roughly? 9 A. Between 2 and 3,000 acres. 10 Q. Those are the same acres that you talked 11 about before, the fallow acres? 12 A. Yes, that's correct. 13 Q. Are there any fallow fields that do not have 14 rice planted on them? 15 A. Yes. There may be a few. 16 Q. What would the reason for that be? 17 A. Well, just maybe not enough time to get it 18 all done. We only have so many harvesters or combines 19 that can combine the rice. So we can't put everything in 20 rice at the moment. 21 Q. Why is it that rice is used in the fallowing 22 fields? 23 A. Well, it's a good cover crop and it does 24 generate some revenue. We have the people, and the 25 equipment, and the land, so it fits in real well. But BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 61 1 rice in and of itself is not an economically feasible crop 2 in south Florida. You can't make any money off of it. 3 But as a rotation crop with sugarcane, then you can pretty 4 much break even, but that's about it. 5 Q. What is the reason for leaving the fields 6 fallow? 7 A. You maybe can't get to them all in time to 8 get them all in in rice. 9 Q. I'm sorry. I meant what is the reason for 10 not planting them in sugarcane? 11 A. Again, you can't get them all planted in 12 time. A lot of times you have to put fields in long-term 13 land preparation because of the grass problem. If you 14 don't correct -- if you plant it right back, that grass 15 problem would be there for the new cycle of cane that you 16 just planted and hurt production. So when you get that 17 back, you have to put it in long-term land preparation, 18 either in rice or disking to control the grass problem. 19 Q. Are there any concerns about productivity of 20 the fields that lead you to decide to leave the field 21 fallow or planting rice? 22 A. No, not really. 23 Q. So crop rotation is not done for 24 productivity reasons; is that what you're saying? 25 A. I don't understand what you mean. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 62 1 Q. When I say, "crop rotation", I mean 2 sugarcane to rice. That the decision to put a field in 3 rice or leave it fallow is not done to help increase the 4 productivity of sugarcane in the future. 5 A. In some areas rice production -- rice 6 production does help the sugarcane production afterwards. 7 In some areas it doesn't. It's not an exact science. 8 You're not always sure that you'll get increased cane 9 production from fallowing rice. 10 Q. How does it help in those areas where it 11 does? 12 A. We really don't know. We just know in some 13 cases it does. In some cases it doesn't. We don't know 14 the reasons why. 15 Q. Is the decision whether to leave a field 16 fallow or planted in rice, does that decision depend at 17 all upon concerns about productivity of the sugarcane 18 crop? 19 A. No. 20 Q. It's more the manpower concerns you were 21 talking about? 22 A. Yes. Primarily we put everything in rice 23 that we can. 24 Q. Maybe we're not connecting. 25 A. Basically anything that's fallow we put in BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 63 1 rice. 2 Q. The decision as to whether you put it in 3 rice or leave it fallow -- let's take that as a category, 4 rice or fallow. That decision versus sugarcane 5 replanting. 6 A. You're talking about not leaving it fallow 7 and planting it right back in sugarcane? 8 Q. Right. How is that decision made? How do 9 you decide what to do? 10 A. Well, again, the first decision is made as 11 to whether to successive plant it or not. I mean harvest 12 it, disk it up and plant it right back and harvest it the 13 next year. 14 Q. What are the considerations? 15 A. As I mentioned, the grass problems that you 16 might have in the field that need to be taken care of. 17 And the only way to do that is through long-term land 18 preparation, either by disking it or planting it in rice. 19 Q. Any other concerns, any other factors that 20 led you to do one or the other? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Is there a general productivity goal on a 23 per acre basis that you have for the sugarcane fields? 24 A. We estimate each field every year and what 25 we think it will do, yes. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 64 1 Q. It varies from field to field? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What kind of range are you talking about? 4 A. It depends on what year it is. 5 Q. From your experience what is the range? 6 A. I have seen fields cut seven tons per acre, 7 and I've seen fields cut 104 tons per acre. 8 Q. What's the average? 9 A. At U.S. Sugar probably around 37, 38. 10 Sometimes higher and sometimes lower. 11 Q. The annual factors which influence that are 12 what? 13 A. The what? 14 Q. The factors that year to year change that 15 average. What are those? 16 A. That change what? 17 Q. The average productivity that you're talking 18 about. You said some years it might be low, some -- 19 A. Growing conditions for that crop, you know, 20 weather. All those things that go into making things grow 21 or not grow. 22 Q. Precipitation? Temperature? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Amount of sunlight? Those kinds of things? 25 A. Yes. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 65 1 Q. For sugarcane farming, what practices do you 2 use with respect to water management? What are you trying 3 to accomplish, basically? 4 A. We're trying to -- if conditions exist 5 whereby the cane is suffering from not enough water, then 6 we try to irrigate and give it some water. If conditions 7 are that it has too much water, then we try to get rid of 8 the water. We have to look at each individual field and 9 area and see what kind of shape it's in and then decide 10 what it needs, if anything. 11 Q. At what level in the organizational 12 structure are those decisions made? 13 A. They're made, you know, by the farm managers 14 in the field -- in the farming. 15 Q. What level physically are they made? What 16 unit of water management is used? 17 A. Well, it depends on the area and how the 18 water control structures and facilities are set up in that 19 area. Some areas may cover five or six sections and some 20 may cover 20 sections. 21 Q. Is that the range, basically? 22 A. Well, I haven't counted them up. It just 23 depends on what that water control structure in that 24 particular area is set up to handle. 25 Q. When you say, "water control structure", BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 66 1 what precisely do you mean? 2 A. Condensation, or irrigation pump, or 3 whatever the water control facility would be. 4 Q. Who within the organization has 5 responsibility for maintaining and operating those? 6 A. Our department operates them and then we 7 have a Field Construction Department that maintains them. 8 Q. You mentioned irrigation and you mentioned 9 moving water off the land, flood control. Between those 10 two which do you regard as the more important principle? 11 A. It depends on the area. Some areas, you 12 know, are wet areas that you have to be more concerned 13 with being too wet and then other areas are dry areas that 14 you have to be concerned with irrigation. So it's just 15 each area has its own unique characteristics that a farm 16 manager has to manage. 17 Q. Is it the elevation of an area that 18 determines that? 19 A. Sometimes it's the elevation or difference 20 in elevation and soil type. Several different things, you 21 know, go to make an area a wet area as opposed to a dry 22 area. 23 Q. Anything else? Elevation, soil type. 24 Proximity to the station, effectiveness of the canals? 25 A. Yes. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 67 1 Q. Those might all be factors? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. The water that's used on U.S. Sugar property 4 for irrigation purposes that comes through these water 5 control structures, where does that come from? 6 A. It comes from the main primary canals that 7 are in the area. 8 Q. Meaning the water management district 9 canals? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Does U.S. Sugar pay for its use of that 12 water? 13 A. I'm really not sure. I don't handle any of 14 the taxes for the company, so I'm not sure what the tax 15 structure is and how much is paid to whom and for what. 16 Q. Do you know who in the organizational 17 structure would have that information? 18 A. Bubba Wade probably would. 19 Q. Is there a goal as to pumping capabilities 20 for U.S. Sugar properties? How much water, so many inches 21 of water off the property in a 24-hour period, for 22 example? 23 A. There may be, but I don't know what that 24 figure is. Our Engineering Department designs our pump 25 stations. And they might have a figure, but I wouldn't BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 68 1 know what it is. 2 Q. As basically a farm manager, do you have a 3 sense of what you need, basically, to make the system 4 work? 5 A. I've never really looked at it in that 6 context. 7 Q. What's the goal with respect to inundation 8 of the root zone of the sugarcane crop? What were you 9 trying to do? 10 A. I don't know what you mean. 11 Q. Where ideally should the water level be with 12 respect to the root zone? 13 A. It depends on what the field conditions 14 are. If it's dry, it can be higher than when it's wet. 15 Q. If it's dry where would it be? 16 A. You want to get it as high as you can to get 17 moisture up to the root zone. 18 Q. And if it's wet where do you want it to be? 19 A. Further down where some of that water would 20 move down and not kill the root system. But as far as any 21 measurement, I don't have any goal. 22 Q. If the root zone stays inundated, how long a 23 period can it stay that way before there's damage to the 24 crop? 25 A. It depends on how big the cane is. The BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 69 1 bigger the cane the more it can stand. And in the 2 summertime typically it could stand more than it could 3 this time of the year. 4 Q. For cane that's been producing for several 5 seasons, does that affect its size or productivity? 6 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't understand. 8 MR. GUZY: I didn't hear you, Rick. 9 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. I don't 10 know what affects size or productivity. 11 THE WITNESS: I don't understand. 12 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) You used the term larger 13 cane, and I think you said it could stand more 14 inundation. When you say larger, are you referring solely 15 to where it is in the growing season? 16 A. Yes. What stage in the growing season it 17 is. 18 Q. For multi year cane, does that affect its 19 size at all? Is it going to be the same size, basically, 20 next year as it was last year? 21 A. What do you mean by size? Height or -- 22 Q. I don't know. That's what I'm asking you. 23 A. I don't either. 24 Q. Would the height vary from year to year? 25 A. You mean the same field or all the fields? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 70 1 Q. Let's take the same field. The same root 2 stalk even. 3 A. It may, depending on the growing conditions 4 preceding the time when you took the measurements. 5 Q. There's not a general principle or anything 6 like that, a general thing that happens? 7 A. Not that I -- if what I understand you're 8 asking me is correct, then no. 9 Q. That's probably true for the diameter as 10 well of the stalk? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. When you said a larger cane can stand 13 inundation -- I'm just trying to understand. I'm not 14 trying to trick you or anything like that. 15 A. Right. Now, one of the canes has just been 16 harvested, so it hasn't started regrowth yet. It's real 17 small. Later on in the spring and summer the cane will be 18 this tall and can withstand more water. 19 Q. "This tall" is three or four feet, so the 20 court reporter can get it. 21 A. Yeah. 22 Q. For the cane -- right after it's been 23 harvested and it's short, basically the short cane, how 24 long do you think that it can have its roots inundated? 25 A. It, again, would vary on soil type. There's BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 71 1 no set number of days that I could tell you that would 2 happen every time. 3 Q. How about for the large cane? The same 4 answer? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What about the soil type affects the cane? 7 What is it about the soil type? 8 A. I don't know. It's just -- in some areas it 9 can withstand longer than other areas. There are 10 different muck types. 11 Q. In the years that you've been there, the 26 12 years you have been at U.S. Sugar, have you ever known to 13 lose a crop due to flooding? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Why don't you tell me about that, please. 16 A. We're disking some out now from the rains we 17 have had this winter. Probably around 700 acres worth. 18 Q. At what location is that? 19 A. Well, it's several different locations all 20 over our property. I don't have the exact field numbers. 21 The superintendents have told me we have to disk some cane 22 out because water has killed it, too much water. 23 Q. It's not a single location, but it's 24 interspersed throughout the property? 25 A. Yes. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 72 1 Q. Why was it that water was unable to be 2 effected -- let me ask you the premise first. 3 Is it true that water was not able to be 4 effectively removed from these areas to allow the crop to 5 survive? 6 A. Due to the excessive amount of rainfall that 7 we got. 8 Q. Was there more rain than the pumps could 9 handle? 10 A. I guess it was more than the pumps were 11 designed for. We're trying some of these BMPs and 12 experimenting with these pump canal level BMPs and this 13 reduced pumping. We're still working with those stages to 14 try to find one that will accomplish both our goal to 15 reduce pumping and to keep from killing the crop. So 16 that's why we're still working with those -- I just pulled 17 them out of my files to give to you today, and we're still 18 modifying them. 19 Q. Do you attribute the loss of this crop or 20 any loss of this crop to those BMPs you're talking about? 21 A. I think some of them have been affected by 22 them, yes. And that's why we're making adjustments now. 23 Q. How did you come to that conclusion? For 24 example, did you go out and -- 25 A. With the guidelines that we have set up, we BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 73 1 did reach the trigger pumps to crank the pump before the 2 cane had been killed, suffered damage. 3 Q. What I'm asking is how do you come to that 4 conclusion? What do you base that on? Do you base it on 5 discussions with people? Your own observations? 6 A. Both. My observations and discussions with 7 people. I've seen some of the fields. 8 Q. Let's take the observations. Where did you 9 go and what did you look at? 10 A. I went to a couple of areas that our 11 superintendents had pointed out to me and just to look at 12 the fields myself. 13 Q. What did you see? 14 A. I saw no cane growing in the field. 15 Q. I should have asked what didn't you see. 16 What kind of discussions did you have? 17 A. With myself? I mean I was by myself when I 18 went to see the fields. 19 Q. How about -- I think you said you based your 20 thinking that BMPs might be part of the cause of the loss 21 of this field on both observations and discussion. What 22 discussions did you have about this? 23 A. No. I'm saying I looked at the areas where 24 I saw the fields and the levels that -- 25 Q. Right. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 74 1 A. -- the canals were in. And they were too 2 high and therefore unable to dry the fields up before the 3 cane died. 4 Q. You also talked to some of the farm 5 managers? 6 A. Superintendents. 7 Q. Superintendents. Did they have the same 8 opinion? 9 A. Yes. And I'll say that's why we're still 10 working with these BMPs, to get them where they will 11 accomplish both reduced pumping and keep from killing the 12 cane. We think we can do that once we get the stages in 13 the correct levels for each of the different basins. We 14 think it will accomplish both goals. 15 Q. We will be able to get into that in a little 16 bit more detail when we get to that document. I 17 appreciate that. 18 Have you, in your 26 years of experience at 19 U.S. Sugar, seen other occasions where crops were lost due 20 to excess water? 21 A. I don't remember being this much -- you 22 know, we have isolated fields here and there from one year 23 to the next, but I don't remember anything as big as this 24 at one time. 25 Q. From one year to the next is it a pretty BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 75 1 regular occurrence that some of the fields would be lost? 2 A. No, not really. Like I say, this was an 3 unusually wet winter. 4 Q. Have you been around for any wet winters? 5 A. I don't remember one being this wet, but 6 maybe in this 26 years there may have been one. If you 7 look back on the rainfall records, this has been a fairly 8 unusual winter as far as precipitation is concerned. 9 Q. Have you, in your period with the company, 10 ever known a crop to be lost due to drought? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Why don't you tell me about that, please. 13 A. I just remember in 1981 when we had the last 14 drought, the lake level got down below ten. We had some 15 cane damage as a result of that. I don't remember if we 16 actually disked fields up, but I know production was lower 17 than we would have expected as a result of it. 18 Q. So the level of production may have been 19 decreased, but you don't have any memory of the loss of 20 whole areas? 21 A. I don't remember fields being disked up. 22 There may have been. I just don't recall any. 23 Q. Is there some optimum water table level that 24 you strive for to achieve a maximum yield? 25 A. No, not really. It depends on the area. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 76 1 Some areas can have a higher water table than other 2 areas. You just have to know the areas and know what 3 you're working with. 4 Q. Who makes that kind of decision? 5 A. Nobody has made a decision as to what the 6 level is. Like I say, you just -- by observing the field 7 conditions, you determine what's best for the cane. 8 Q. Is it the superintendent or the farm 9 manager? 10 A. Well, in the past it's been the farm 11 manager. Now that we have these guidelines to go by, then 12 that decision is made for them already, and they just 13 follow the guidelines up. But in the past the farm 14 managers -- if it clouded up they cranked the pumps to 15 protect the crop. And then they knew they could always 16 get the water back. Now things are different and they 17 have the schedules to go by. And we're still on -- like I 18 say, working with the schedules. 19 Q. So the practice in the past was to pump 20 whenever there was basically the threat of rain? 21 A. Sometimes you would if the field was already 22 wet and saturated and you could see rain was imminent. 23 Then you would go ahead and crank the pump. Now you wait 24 until after the rain has come and wait eight hours at 25 least before you make a decision whether to crank the pump BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 77 1 or not. 2 Q. When you say they could -- if they pump too 3 much they could get the water back, what did you mean? 4 A. Well, I mean if the rain didn't come, they 5 could just open the gate and the water would come back in. 6 Q. Is it generally true that there's much more 7 of a need to pump during the wet season than there is 8 during the dry season? 9 A. Oh, yeah. 10 Q. What about water management practices with 11 respect to the rice production? What is the goal there? 12 A. Well, you just have to keep the level of 13 water, you know, coming up with the rice and keep it high 14 enough to prevent grass and weeds from germanating, yet 15 enough water there to grow the rice crop. 16 Q. Is the rice sensitive to inundation? You 17 know, to storm events as sugarcane is? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Does one crop or another require more water 20 for production? 21 A. I don't know how many gallons per acre of 22 water it takes to grow a crop of cane versus a crop of 23 rice, if that's what you mean by requirements. I don't 24 know. 25 Q. Are there any physical features of the BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 78 1 fields or the water management structures that need to be 2 altered or modified to allow the harvest -- I'm sorry -- 3 the growing of the rice? 4 A. Yeah. You have to put up levees around the 5 fields where you have the rice. 6 Q. So that the water level can actually be 7 higher than it is with sugarcane. Is that the goal of 8 that -- of the levels? 9 A. You don't put water over a sugarcane field. 10 Sugarcane won't grow under standing water, but of course 11 the rice is a water crop. 12 Q. What kind of monitoring is done of water 13 quality for water that is pumped off of the fields? 14 A. We have monitors at our pump stations, but 15 our department doesn't have anything to do with them. 16 Q. So you don't have any particular knowledge 17 about water quality monitoring? 18 A. No. I just know that they're there. 19 Q. Do you know what they measure? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Do you know how they work? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Do you know when they're used? 24 A. Every time the pumps run. 25 Q. Do you know how long they've been there, BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 79 1 those monitors? 2 A. No, I don't. 3 Q. Have you ever or the Agriculture Department 4 ever instituted any practices as a result of concerns 5 about water quality coming off the property? 6 A. Yeah. We've got several that are in that 7 book that we're already doing and have been doing. 8 Q. The book meaning -- 9 A. The green book. 10 Q. The BMPs? 11 A. The BMPs. 12 Q. We'll talk about that pretty soon. Anything 13 else? 14 A. I can't remember what all is in that book. 15 So until I see it and go through it, I won't know if I've 16 left anything out. 17 Q. Are you familiar with any sampling that's 18 been done for water quality? 19 A. I know it's been done. That's all I know. 20 Q. Who's responsible for the water sampling and 21 quality? 22 A. The Research Department. 23 Q. Have you ever had any discussions with the 24 Research Department about any of that sampling or 25 monitoring? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 80 1 A. No, I haven't. 2 Q. Have you had any discussions with them about 3 the effectiveness of the new pumping practices that they 4 have instituted? 5 A. No, I haven't. The only thing I know is the 6 one that's in that other document that I gave you. That's 7 the only thing I know anything about as far as differences 8 between the old pumping procedures and the new pumping 9 procedures. 10 Q. Does U.S. Sugar use on-site detention of 11 water as a means to conserve water? 12 A. Yes, we have. 13 Q. How does that work? 14 A. If we have a field in that area that's a 15 fallow field, then we would direct water to that field 16 rather than discharging it out of the basin. Or if we had 17 rice fields in that area, then we would pump the water 18 from the cane onto the rice. Or if we had vegetable 19 fields in the area, then we would pump water on the 20 vegetables that were in a fallow condition rather than 21 discharging it outside the basin. 22 Q. When is that done? 23 A. In the summertime during the rainy season. 24 Q. Why would there be a reluctance to discharge 25 it from the basin? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 81 1 A. Again, that's part of the BMPs to reduce 2 pumping. 3 Q. That's something that's been done recently? 4 A. Yeah. I don't know what you mean by 5 recently, but within the last couple of years. 6 Q. Was on-site detention ever used before that? 7 A. Not to my knowledge, no. 8 Q. As a farm manager is that a fair description 9 of your sort of expertise as -- I don't mean to say you're 10 the farm manager. But in the area of farm management, do 11 you find on-site detention to be at all cost prohibitive? 12 A. I don't know if we've done it enough yet to 13 be able to tell by it. It's just not been done enough yet 14 to say. 15 Q. Do you find it at all counterproductive? 16 A. Well, there's a possibility. And we have 17 not, again, worked with it long enough. But that field 18 right next to that one may suffer damage from seepage from 19 that field. Like I say, we have not done it enough to be 20 able to evaluate it thoroughly. 21 Q. You need more growing seasons and experience 22 to be able to tell? 23 A. Sure. With all of these we need to be able 24 to have enough time to work with them and fine tune them 25 to decide if they'll work and if they won't. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 82 1 Q. What permits does U.S. Sugar have from 2 either federal, state or local authorities -- 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. Let me finish the question and then you can 5 tell me you don't know. 6 To engage in sugarcane farming? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. Who knows that? Who's most familiar with 9 that? 10 A. Our Engineering Department handles the 11 permitting for us. 12 Q. What water management principles apply when 13 you're actually doing the harvesting? What's the goal 14 there for sugarcane? 15 A. Well, you want to have the fields where you 16 can get in there to harvest them. So you have to pump the 17 water down enough to dry them out where you can get in 18 there and harvest. 19 Q. And keep the water off the fields for that 20 period? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. How about for the rice harvesting? 23 A. The same would apply. You would have to 24 begin to take the water off a couple of weeks prior to 25 harvesting, ten days prior to harvesting, to be able to BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 83 1 get into the field with the combines. 2 Q. Is that true for the planting as well? 3 A. Yes, it is. 4 Q. How long is that period between planting and 5 harvesting, if there's going to be successive planting? 6 A. Well -- 7 Q. I'm sorry. Between harvesting and planting 8 is my question. 9 A. We can do it in three weeks. Say three to 10 five weeks. Sometimes we can do it quicker than that. 11 One of the other things we are doing in the way of 12 successive planting is no-till planting where we are not 13 disking up the field. We are going between the rows and 14 making new furrows between the old rows and planting that 15 way. And then by mechanical cultivation we work out the 16 old rows, where the old rows were. 17 Q. What is the reason for doing a no-till 18 planting? 19 A. To cut down on the cost for land preparation 20 for one thing. 21 Q. Does it have any particular benefits or 22 detriments in your view? 23 A. We have not done it enough, again, to 24 evaluate that completely as to whether production is just 25 as good that way as the other way, but we are still BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 84 1 looking at it. 2 Q. Do you -- 3 A. The no-till planting would reduce the amount 4 of dust that might be in the atmosphere as a result of the 5 disking. And we're still doing tests on that, too, 6 experiments. 7 Q. Does it still involve furrowing, the no-till 8 planting? 9 A. Is it still furrowed? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. Yes. You still furrow in the existing 12 fields with the furrow plow and make your new rows there. 13 Q. Do you have an estimate of what percentage 14 of phosphorus reduction can be obtained by using BMPs? 15 A. No, sir, I don't. 16 Q. Do you have any experience with that? 17 A. No, sir, never. The only data I've seen is 18 what's in that book. 19 Q. Have you had any discussions with anyone 20 about that? 21 A. No, sir. 22 Q. When you evaluate BMPs, is it fair to say 23 that your perspective is whether it's something that you 24 can successfully farm with? Is that the way you're 25 looking at it? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 85 1 A. That's our portion of the pie, I guess. And 2 other departments within the company try to measure and 3 quantify that reduction. 4 Q. Who at the company figures out other ways 5 you can accomplish the farming? Whose job is that? 6 A. Accomplish what? 7 Q. The farming. Other ways you can get the 8 farming done. 9 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 10 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the 11 question. 12 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Someone thought up, for 13 example, the idea of on-site detention, moving the water 14 around instead of discharging it all. Who sort of sits 15 there and thinks up those things for the company? 16 A. I don't know where the idea originally came 17 from. It is our responsibility in production to evaluate 18 that, as to whether it would hurt the cane production or 19 not. 20 Q. But it's not the Argiculture Department's 21 responsibility to think of different ways the farming can 22 be done? 23 A. Oh, yeah. We do and have. 24 Q. What are some of the examples of that? 25 A. The water detention is one that was thought BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 86 1 up within our department. We've -- you know, planting 2 cane in the middle is another one. Of course the pumping 3 of the water on the rice fields rather than discharging it 4 and pumping the water on vegetable fields, all that was 5 done within our department. 6 Q. Who specifically? 7 A. I don't remember who. It just came about 8 and we said, let's try it. 9 Q. Is there any procedure in place or policy or 10 anything like that to encourage those kinds of changes? 11 A. No, no. 12 Q. It's just if someone happens to think of it, 13 you have a discussion about it and try to decide if it 14 will work? 15 A. Yes, that's correct. 16 Q. Are you familiar with the challenge to the 17 district's BMP rule that was initially filed by U.S. 18 Sugar? 19 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form of the 20 question. 21 MR. GUZY: What's objectionable to that? 22 MR. BURGESS: I don't think you've 23 established a predicate as to whether a challenge may have 24 been filed to what rule. 25 MR. GUZY: You can go ahead and answer. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 87 1 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 2 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) You're not familiar with it? 3 A. No, I'm not. 4 Q. Do you have any opinion about whether a 25 5 percent reduction in phosphorus coming off the U.S. Sugar 6 properties is a reasonable goal for BMP reductions? 7 A. I have no basis to make any at this point in 8 time. 9 Q. Are you familiar with what's called an early 10 baseline option under BMP permit? 11 A. I have heard talk about it, but I don't 12 understand what it's about. I don't know all the details 13 about the early baseline option and what your options 14 are. Bubba Wade kind of takes care of that for us. He 15 attends the workshops and the meetings. We don't get 16 involved with that. 17 Q. Do you have any knowledge about whether U.S. 18 Sugar has made that election? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Bubba Wade would be the person -- 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. -- to talk about it? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. I take it since you said you don't have a 25 particular knowledge about the BMP rule challenge, that BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 88 1 you also don't have any particular knowledge about 2 withdrawing that challenge? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. What kind of research or demonstration does 5 U.S. Sugar do with respect to BMPs? 6 A. I don't understand what you mean. 7 Q. How do you go about assessing whether 8 particular BMPs are going to work or not? 9 A. Our Research Department would be the one to 10 evaluate that. 11 Q. Do they have research farms? 12 A. Yes. They do have some areas that are 13 theirs, research. 14 Q. Do they also -- 15 A. They also have areas in our commercial field 16 that they do testing. 17 Q. So maybe on portions of the areas that you 18 supervised they worked with you to do research? 19 A. No. They do the research, yes. We give 20 them an area to do the research in. 21 Q. Who would implement their change practices? 22 Is that something they would do or the Agriculture 23 Department people would do? 24 A. It depends on what it is. If it's something 25 they can handle themselves, they will. If they need help BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 89 1 from us, then we will. 2 Q. Can you think of any examples of that? 3 A. No. Just talking in general terms. 4 Q. Are you aware of any current research that's 5 now ongoing designed to lessen phosphorus or nutrient 6 discharges from the U.S. Sugar property? 7 MR. BURGESS: Other than the BMPs you 8 started talking about? 9 THE WITNESS: I don't know if you're talking 10 about the ones in those books or not. 11 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) We can turn to those. Are 12 there ones other than in these books? 13 A. I don't know what all they're doing, to tell 14 you the truth. I just know they're working hard on many 15 different things, but they don't consult with me before 16 they do them or while they're doing them. They just do 17 them. 18 Q. They being who? 19 A. Research. 20 Q. Whose the best person -- 21 A. Hank Andreis or Bubba Wade. Bubba would 22 know about it as well as Hank. 23 Q. How large is that department? 24 A. I don't know how many people they have in 25 it. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 90 1 Q. Do you know if there's any research on 2 growing more water-tolerant cane? 3 A. I really don't know that. 4 Q. Are there different kinds of sugarcane that 5 you plant? Different varieties? 6 A. Yes, there is. 7 Q. How many different ones? 8 A. There may be 50. But probably 80 percent of 9 the acres consist of maybe a half a dozen varieties. 10 Q. What are some of the features that differ 11 from variety to variety? 12 A. There are as many different features as 13 there are varieties. 14 Q. Who makes the decision about which variety 15 gets planted? 16 A. The superintendents in East Division. 17 Q. What factors go into that decision? What 18 are they trying to do about choosing one variety rather 19 than another? 20 A. Maximize production in different areas of 21 the farm. 22 Q. Are there some varieties that are more water 23 tolerant than others? 24 A. Not that I know of. 25 Q. So that's not one of the factors that BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 91 1 differs? 2 A. I don't know of that as being one of the 3 factors. 4 Q. Can you give me an example of some of the 5 other -- some factors that would differ from variety to 6 variety? 7 A. Whether there's an early maturing variety or 8 late maturing, direct cane or lodged and tangled. Some 9 are better in tons per acre and have a lower sugar 10 content. Some have a higher sugar content and lower tons 11 per acre. Some close in more rapidly or quicker than 12 other varieties. In the spring when they are growing, 13 they will overlap their centers quicker. Some are more 14 cold tolerant than others. Those are just some of the 15 things. 16 Q. Is the selection of the different varieties 17 provided by the Research Department or by the -- who gives 18 the superintendent -- 19 A. Our Research Department has its own cane 20 variety breeding program, and they develop and breed 21 varieties. And after years and years of testing in their 22 plots, they may realize one or two a year. Just like the 23 U.S.D.A. has a cane breeding program. 24 MR. GUZY: Off the record a second. 25 (Whereupon, at 12:05 P. M. the lunch recess BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 92 1 was taken.) 2 (Whereupon, Parker Nos. 1 through 6 were 3 marked for identification.) 4 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Mr. Parker, have you attended 5 meetings of the Everglades Agricultural Area? 6 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't know what you mean. 8 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) I will show you a document, 9 we won't necessarily mark it, and ask if you can -- just 10 take a look at it and ask if that helps you answer my 11 question. 12 A. I don't recall the meeting. It's dated 13 February the 3rd of 1983. I'm assuming that I did attend 14 this meeting, yes. 15 Q. What kinds of collective meetings like 16 this -- I'm looking at a document. We will mark it just 17 so we have it. I'm referring to it as Parker Exhibit 18 Number 7. I will give you a copy here so you can have 19 it. 20 (Whereupon, Parker No. 7 was marked for 21 identification.) 22 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) What kinds of collective 23 meetings like this have you attended during your course at 24 U.S. Sugar? Various other farms and corporations and 25 various other people have attended these meetings from BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 93 1 U.S. Sugar. Can you give me a sense of what meetings 2 you're responsible for attending for the company? 3 A. I don't have any responsibility to attend 4 any of the meetings. 5 Q. What do you attend as a matter of practice? 6 A. Very few. 7 Q. Do you have any that you specifically 8 remember? 9 A. I sure don't. I don't even remember this 10 one. 11 Q. Any idea what might have been discussed at 12 this meeting? 13 A. I have no idea. That was ten years ago. 14 Q. What organizations is U.S. Sugar a member 15 of? 16 A. I don't know. 17 Q. Are they a member of the Florida Sugar Cane 18 League? 19 A. Yes, I know that. 20 Q. Florida Fruit and Vegetable Organization? 21 A. I'm not sure. 22 Q. Any others you can think of? 23 A. I just don't really know what the company 24 membership -- you know, what organizations or associations 25 they may be a member of. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 94 1 Q. Do you have any responsibilities for working 2 with the league at all? 3 A. I don't know what you mean by "working 4 with". 5 Q. Attending meetings, for example. 6 A. No. 7 Q. Reviewing their publications? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Talking to other members of the league about 10 any subjects? 11 A. I don't know who all are members of the 12 league. So I may talk to them, but I wouldn't do it as a 13 member of the league. 14 Q. Not specifically to transact league 15 business, whatever that may be? 16 A. No, that's correct. No, I wouldn't. 17 Q. You're not involved with any committees of 18 the league? 19 A. No, I'm not. 20 Q. Are you a member of any professional 21 associations? 22 A. The American Society of Sugar Cane 23 Technologists. 24 Q. Any others? 25 A. No. I think that's about it. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 95 1 Q. Can you tell me a little bit about that 2 society? I'm not familiar with it. How many members are 3 there? 4 A. I don't know the count. There's two 5 divisions, a Louisiana Division and a Florida Division. 6 And each year they have a joint meeting of the two 7 divisions. And basically it's about a two-day meeting and 8 with a presentation of papers written by research people 9 from both Florida and Louisiana. 10 Q. Do you attend those meetings regularly? 11 A. About once every other year or so. I may go 12 to the annual convention and that's it, the joint meeting. 13 Q. What do those papers cover? 14 A. Anything regarding sugarcane production, 15 basically, as well as milling. There's an agricultural 16 and a manufacturing section within the society. 17 Q. Have any of those papers covered phosphorus 18 or nutrient discharge? 19 A. I don't know. I don't remember hearing any, 20 but I have not been to all of them, so I can't say whether 21 they have or not. 22 Q. Do you receive publications from a society? 23 A. We get a journal either at the end -- maybe 24 six months later after the meetings that has the papers 25 that were presented at the meeting. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 96 1 Q. Do you retain those journals? 2 A. I don't know if I have them or not. I have 3 to check and see. I can't remember if I went to the 4 meeting last year, to tell you the truth. 5 Q. Did you do anything else with the society? 6 A. No. They have meetings once a year, the 7 Florida group does, but I don't go to them. 8 Q. Any other organizations like that? 9 A. Not that I know of. Not that I can think of 10 right now. 11 Q. I have marked the documents that you 12 produced to us earlier today as Numbers 1 through 6. And 13 I have the originals here which I will return to you so 14 you can keep those as you've requested. 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. I have marked copies of them. If at any 17 point during the deposition it becomes clear that 18 something about the original is crucial for our 19 understanding, I would ask that we get a color Xerox or 20 another copy of the original, but I don't expect that 21 that's going to be a problem. And you will be able to 22 refer to these during our discussions. 23 MR. BURGESS: Do you have an extra copy? 24 MR. GUZY: Yes. I have an extra copy of 25 some of them, but not the entire set, apparently. I did BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 97 1 try and make one for you. 2 Off the record. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Is it your testimony that 5 these are the only documents in your files that are 6 responsive to the government's request? 7 A. That's correct. After looking through my 8 files, this is all I could find. 9 Q. Are they the only files that you searched, 10 the ones that you personally retain in your office? 11 A. My files are the only ones that I looked 12 for, yes. 13 Q. When did you conduct a search? 14 A. Yesterday. 15 Q. Why was it conducted yesterday? 16 A. Because I had to have them today. 17 Q. When were you asked to conduct the search? 18 A. Yesterday. 19 Q. As part of the government's request, which 20 is appended to the deposition notice that you have - I 21 believe pages 5 through 7 - there are a number of requests 22 for documents that -- as I understand it, you have not 23 produced things that are responsive to, for example, 24 number one, documents that explain or describe the 25 agricultural practices and enterprises of United States BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 98 1 Sugar Corporation in the EAA. 2 You're telling me that you don't have any 3 such documents in your files? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. That would be true also for number three 6 concerning Lake Okeechobee or Everglades' water quality 7 and/or quantity issues, as well as number four, SWIM Plan 8 alternatives and five -- 9 A. Four? I thought that was what -- no. 10 That's right. That's right, yeah. No, I don't have the 11 alternatives to the SWIM Plan. 12 Q. Five, fertilizer applications? 13 A. That's correct. I don't have any files -- 14 any of those files -- documents in my file. 15 Q. Six, SWIM Plan impacts? 16 A. I don't have that in my files. 17 Q. Seven, the scientific basis, feasibility, 18 economic impact, alternatives or other issues relating to 19 the SWIM Plan? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Ten, effects of BMPs on water table and 22 water retention in the EAA? 23 A. I've got that. 24 Q. One of those is responsive to that there? 25 A. There's a chart in here. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 99 1 MR. GUZY: Let the record reflect this is 2 what's been marked as Parker Number 5. That's a United 3 States Sugar Corporation Update on Phosphorus Reduction 4 Activities, July 9, 1992. I'll get into that document in 5 a minute. I just want to make sure I have understood what 6 you've produced to us. 7 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) And then you're saying there 8 are things on 8, 9 and 10, nothing on 11 and nothing on 9 12? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. Let's look back at number one on page 5 12 there. I'm going to give you two alternatives and if you 13 could tell me which is closer to the truth, if you're able 14 to, I'd appreciate it. 15 One alternative is that U.S. Sugar just 16 isn't the kind of corporation that deals with a lot of 17 paper, and you don't have a lot of that paper in your 18 files. The other alternative is that, well, there may 19 have been that paper, you just haven't retained it. Is 20 one of those closer to the truth than the other? 21 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 22 THE WITNESS: I can't say. I don't know. I 23 don't know how to judge that on a scale of zero and ten 24 and five being in the middle. I wouldn't know which way 25 to go. I mean that's not something that would be expected BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 100 1 to be in my file. 2 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Do you -- 3 A. Maybe our Public Relations Department or 4 something, but I wouldn't have anything that would 5 describe agricultural practices and enterprises in the 6 company in EAA. 7 Q. You testified earlier that you had certain 8 responsibilities concerning the migrant worker program; is 9 that right? 10 A. No. I said I had the responsibility of the 11 planting, growing and harvesting of the sugarcane crop for 12 the company. 13 Q. That doesn't encompass the worker program? 14 A. That's not what you asked. I don't have 15 responsibilities for the H2A worker program, no. 16 Q. You don't? Maybe earlier you had somebody. 17 That's what I'm misunderstanding. You don't currently 18 have any responsibility for that? 19 A. I don't know what you mean by 20 "responsibility". I think I mentioned what my connection 21 with the H2A program was. You asked if I had been deposed 22 in the past. I said, yes, in regard to the H2A program. 23 I was deposed in that litigation. But I don't know what 24 you mean by responsibility for the H2A program for the 25 company. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 101 1 Q. Do you do any tasks associated with that 2 program? 3 A. Tests? 4 Q. Tasks, T-A-S-K-S. Do you do anything -- 5 A. A task, oh. I don't know. They work in our 6 department. They cut cane for us, but I don't know what 7 you mean by "task". They're just another employee of the 8 Ag Department, a group of employees of our department. 9 Q. Do you ever, in the course of your work, 10 have discussions with other U.S. Sugar employees about 11 that program? 12 A. Sure, yeah. 13 Q. Why do you have those discussions? 14 A. I can't remember specific instances and 15 recall them. But since they work for our department, then 16 I would have, at some time or another, had discussions 17 with people about them I'm sure. I can't say that I have 18 never -- I guess I don't understand what you're asking. 19 Q. You told me before that it's not one of your 20 responsibilities. I thought that that's what you told 21 me. I'm just trying to understand if that's one of your 22 responsibilities. 23 A. I wouldn't say I'm responsible for the H2A 24 program. But as an assistant to the vice president of 25 agriculture for U.S. Sugar, then I do have things to do BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 102 1 with the program. 2 Q. That's all I'm asking. I'm not suggesting 3 that you or the officer of U.S. Sugar is ultimately 4 responsible for that, but it is among the duties you 5 discharge. You have something to do with it. 6 A. Yes, that's correct. 7 Q. Are there any documents associated with that 8 that you retain in your files? 9 A. Their payroll records, probably. 10 Q. Anything else is? 11 A. There are -- there's a request to our 12 Personnel Department or a letter to our Personnel 13 Department stating how many workers we need, you know, 14 each year. 15 Q. Anything else? 16 A. I can't think of anything else. 17 Q. How about are there any documents concerning 18 areas that are in sugarcane areas that are fallow and 19 areas that are in rice? 20 A. We have an inventory of our fields that -- 21 an estimate book. 22 Q. An estimate book? 23 A. It's an estimate book which has all the 24 fields listed in it for this year's crop. And then the 25 only other thing that describes fallow fields is our BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 103 1 planning schedule. 2 Q. That's something in your office, too? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And then, of course, rice fields. The ones 5 we're going to be planting rice on. 6 Q. Do you have production records in your 7 office? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What other kinds of documents do you have? 10 A. I mean it's, like I say, anything to do with 11 the planting, growing and harvesting of the crop. I can't 12 remember and itemize everything in the files. If you have 13 something in mind, I'll respond to whether I have it or 14 not. But I just can't think of everything that's in 15 there. 16 Q. Now, when you conducted the search 17 yesterday, was it just you who searched through the 18 documents? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Did your attorneys assist you? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Just you. I would like you to look back at 23 number 1 here where it says, "provide all documents that 24 explain or describe the agricultural practices and 25 enterprises of United States Sugar Corporation in the BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 104 1 EAA." Let's work backwards for the production records. 2 Why did you determine that that wasn't 3 responsive to this request? 4 A. Because it doesn't describe the agricultural 5 practices. 6 Q. Does it explain or describe them? 7 A. All that does is tell you what the 8 production data was when the fields are harvested. It 9 doesn't describe a practice. It just reports the harvest 10 data. 11 Q. When you read, "explain or describe the 12 agricultural practices", what did you understand that to 13 mean? 14 A. I didn't understand it to mean anything that 15 I had in my files. 16 Q. What did you understand? 17 A. I don't know what it means. But, like I 18 say, I didn't understand it as anything in my files. 19 Q. You don't believe that the planting schedule 20 describes or explains the agricultural practices at U.S. 21 Sugar? 22 A. That's not the way that I interpreted this 23 sentence. If they would have asked please, you know, 24 provide all the harvest data, planting schedules, rice 25 acres, you know, then I would have known. But as it's BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 105 1 written, I didn't interpret it to mean that or I would 2 have brought it. 3 Q. You're saying the same thing for the 4 inventory of fields? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And the same thing for the migrant workers? 7 A. Yes. 8 MR. GUZY: I want to preserve this for the 9 record. There may be some of this that we will be wanting 10 and will provide you with a request. 11 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) If there's anything else here 12 that you can think of that's in your file that falls 13 within those categories, I would appreciate knowing about 14 it. 15 MR. BURGESS: For the record, if we do 16 receive a records request that requests documents such as 17 H2A workers or production records -- production records 18 have been made available pursuant to a request for 19 production. But if we do receive a request for any of the 20 specifics that you've just given him with respect to 21 documents that may show areas in rice that are fallow, 22 that are sugarcane field books, production records and the 23 like, we will obviously consider those requests and 24 respond. 25 MR. GUZY: I want to make it clear that I'm BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 106 1 not saying we would give you an additional request, but it 2 would be our position that those are responsive to this 3 request, and we will just consider whether we want to 4 pursue that. 5 MR. BURGESS: Our position would be the 6 witness received the notice and searched his files and 7 testified in his opinion he doesn't have any documents 8 that explain or describe agricultural practices or 9 enterprises of United States Sugar Corporation. 10 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Did you search for any files, 11 either you or your attorneys, and make a determination 12 that they were relevant but privileged and wouldn't be 13 produced? 14 A. No. 15 Q. What about these six documents that you've 16 turned over to us? What led them to be in your files? 17 Why did you have these particular documents in your files? 18 A. Because they were there. We work with 19 these. These are our cultivation maps. These are the 20 BMPs that we're working with. This was just given to me, 21 circulated as an update on the process reduction 22 activities. And these were given to me to look for places 23 to implement BMPs within our department. 24 Q. Why don't we go through them individually 25 and maybe help me understand what they are and at the same BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 107 1 time you can tell me why they are in your files, that 2 might make the record a little bit clearer. I would 3 appreciate that. 4 Let's start with Number 1. Why don't you 5 identify that for me, please. 6 A. This is what we call our cultivation maps. 7 They are redrawn each year, and they show all the fields 8 under U.S. Sugar's control that are owned or leased land 9 and shows the field numbers which identifies the block of 10 cane, got the acres, the date the field was first planted, 11 and cane for that cycle and what the variety of the cane 12 is. 13 Q. Where is the -- 14 A. It's fairly obvious why it's in my file. 15 Q. Why is the variety of cane indicated? 16 A. It's listed in each block. 17 Q. Is there any indication on these of other 18 crops that -- 19 A. Yes. It's not U.S. Sugar, but it's somebody 20 else farming vegetables. There's a V marked on the field. 21 Q. Is there a key to this document somewhere? 22 A. No. 23 Q. You just know what it means? 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. Are there any other abbreviations on here? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 108 1 A. I can't think of any. 2 Q. Who prepared this document? 3 A. It was prepared by our Engineering 4 Department. 5 Q. Did you have any input to that? 6 A. No. We provide them the field data, our 7 records people do. I don't see any other abbreviations in 8 here. 9 Q. Let me ask you on page number 14 it says on 10 the bottom, "Caution! S.C.S. wetland. Do not excavate 11 within 200 feet." 12 Do not excavate within 200 feet. What do 13 you understand that to mean? 14 A. Designated wetland area, soil conservation 15 wetland area. 16 Q. What is U.S. Sugar's practice with respect 17 to those areas? 18 A. We don't farm them. 19 Q. Do you know when that policy was 20 implemented? 21 A. When the wetland law went into effect. 22 Q. Do you do anything in particular to ensure 23 that that policy is complied with? 24 A. I don't myself, no. 25 Q. Does anyone in the Agriculture Department? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 109 1 A. The Engineering Department stakes them so as 2 to identify where they're at, and then our farm managers 3 have instructed the equipment operators not to go in 4 there. 5 Q. Let's turn to Number 2, which is this one 6 here. Would you identify that for us, please? 7 A. It's a narrative explaining our pumping 8 practices for phosphorus reduction. 9 Q. Who authored this document? 10 A. Well, there was several people in our 11 department. Wayne Beardsley is the one that did the final 12 write-up on it. 13 Q. Who contributed to the substantiality of it? 14 A. Mr. Polhill, Frank Polhill. 15 Q. Did you consult about it? 16 A. Yeah. I was consulted a little bit about 17 it. This has been evolving as we go and as we learn more 18 about what we were trying to do. 19 Q. When did this policy become effective? 20 A. I can't remember exactly when it was 21 completely put into effect. It was started last summer 22 and slowly developed from there in different areas. 23 Q. In what -- is it implemented as written 24 here? 25 A. Well, we are right now currently going BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 110 1 through some changes and modifications. Like I said, we 2 were experimenting with it, and that's why you see the 3 scratched out levels and the changes. 4 Q. That's on Parker Number 3? 5 A. I don't know. It's on this one. 6 Q. Yes. Let's stick with this one for a 7 minute. Can you describe how the policy works, please? 8 A. Well, basically we are trying to accomplish 9 reduction of phosphorus discharge, and there are four ways 10 we plan on accomplishing this. One is to allow for 11 discharge pumping only after significant rainfall events - 12 one and a half inches or more in 24 hours or two inches or 13 more in 72 hours - and/or farm canal water levels have 14 reached excessively high levels. 15 The second way is we delay the initiation of 16 pumping after a rainfall event. We don't drain the pumps 17 immediately. 18 Third, we have a set amount of time you're 19 allowed to pump. 20 Fourth, we control the minimum water level 21 to which each farm canal system can be lowered. Once it 22 reaches that bottom level, then the pumps have to be shut 23 off. 24 Q. Now, with respect to Number 1 -- 25 A. Okay. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 111 1 Q. -- how were those figures arrived at, one 2 and a half inches or more and two inches or more? 3 A. I really don't know. 4 Q. Do you know who arrived at that? 5 A. I don't know if it came through consultants 6 or how it came about and how many modifications or changes 7 were involved in it before it got to this. So I just know 8 this is where it was settled at. 9 Q. In practice do you have an opinion about 10 whether this is a workable provision? 11 A. Not yet. We haven't been doing it enough to 12 be able to tell yet. Like I say, we are still 13 experimenting and working with it and trying to set the 14 levels. The only information I have about it is, again, 15 there's a page in this book that shows where we had done 16 this for a year prior to this. 17 Q. By "this book" you're referring to -- 18 A. Whatever number this one is. 19 Q. That's been marked as Parker Exhibit Number 20 5. What page is that? 21 A. The pages aren't numbered. 22 Q. I think they are or some of them are. 23 A. Yeah. Three. Page 3. New practice and the 24 baseline, which is the old practice. 25 Q. What does this chart indicate? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 112 1 A. It compares results after running this from 2 June the 22nd, 1992, through July 1st, 1992, which was a 3 prolonged rainfall event. It shows the two different 4 areas. One, the new practice was in the Mott 1 farm and 5 the old or baseline was Wetherald 1. It shows the 6 rainfall at each location, the total farm acres, the total 7 hours that the pumps ran during that rainfall event, total 8 acreage discharged and the inches discharged per acre, 9 total phosphorus and milligrams per liter concentration 10 and total pounds per acre discharged. It basically shows 11 a 50 percent reduction in phosphorus discharge during this 12 rain event with a new practice. 13 Q. So that some of the farms have the new 14 practice implemented and others do not? 15 A. The majority of our farms now have the new 16 practice. We still have some baseline areas that we've 17 got in effect to measure -- 18 Q. Do you know how many of those areas there 19 are? 20 A. I can't remember how many. 21 Q. Is there any data for the farms that were 22 converted that establishes baselines for prior to the 23 conversion to the pumping system? 24 A. Not that I'm aware of. This is the only 25 data that I've seen. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 113 1 Q. Is there anything on Mott 1 that indicated 2 to you that this approach would or would not be feasible 3 from a farming perspective for this particular farm? 4 A. Is there anything from what now? 5 Q. On this particular farm that's referred to 6 in this chart as Mott 1 -- 7 A. Right. 8 Q. -- is there anything in that experience that 9 indicated that the revised pumping practices would or 10 would not be feasible from a farming perspective? 11 A. No. From a farming perspective it worked 12 for this rain event. 13 Q. Let's go back to Parker Number 2, the 14 overall description of the pumping practices. In Number 2 15 they're delaying initiation of pumping after a rainfall 16 event. What happens? 17 A. Pardon? 18 Q. What happens? How does it work? 19 A. Well, after you've gotten an inch and a half 20 to two inches of rain and you wait eight hours, and if 21 after that eight hours the pump's water level has reached 22 a 9.0, then you can crank the pumps and run them for ten 23 hours or until the water level reaches 7.5. I'm reading 24 off of the top line of one of the sheets as the example. 25 Yeah, that sheet. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 114 1 Q. This is marked Parker Number 4. I notice in 2 Parker Number 2 it refers to some attachments, schedules 3 and station logs. Is what's now marked Parker Number 4 4 the attachment to this? 5 A. No. I didn't have a copy of that in my 6 file. All that is is the pump log sheet that the pump 7 operator writes down the information when he cranks the 8 pump. This was sent out in narrative. It was sent out 9 with these and the pump log information at one time to the 10 farm managers. And they were trained as to how to fill 11 out the forms and how to run the pumps. 12 Q. When you say, "with these", you're referring 13 to what's marked as 3 and 4, these schedules? 14 A. Yes. The schedules. 15 Q. The schedules. Do they vary from farm to 16 farm? They could vary from farm to farm? 17 A. Yes. As far as the water levels. 18 Q. Why is that? 19 A. Because of the different land elevations, 20 primarily. 21 Q. Who determined the numbers that are on this 22 schedule? 23 A. The superintendents in working and talking 24 with their farm managers. 25 Q. Do you have an opinion about whether there's BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 115 1 more room within these schedules; whether they could be 2 made even more rigorous? 3 A. What do you mean by "more rigorous"? 4 Q. Whether there could be less pumping, greater 5 delay? 6 A. I don't think we've worked with it long 7 enough to tell yet. We are still experimenting with them. 8 MR. COUSINS: Excuse me a second. 9 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 10 (Whereupon, the last question and answer was 11 read by the reporter.) 12 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) I think you said that the 13 superintendents decided upon the numbers that are in this 14 schedule. 15 A. Yes. After consulting with the farm 16 managers. Then they have written down these schedules. 17 These are the current ones that are in place today. 18 Q. The handwritten notations are the current 19 ones? 20 A. Both of them are current. They're just 21 different locations. The handwritten one is primarily the 22 Western Division and the typewritten one is Eastern 23 Division. They're different locations. 24 Q. Let's look at Number 4, this one. The first 25 entry on the far right-hand column, seepage pump start BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 116 1 water level. 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. There's a 9.5 with a line through it and a 4 9.0; is that correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. What does that signify? 7 A. That if the water level rises due to seepage 8 and it reaches a 9.0, you can pump -- you're permitted to 9 pump if you want to or need to. 10 Q. And the operative number, the one that's 11 currently in effect, is 9, not 9.5? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. At some point it was 9.5? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And it's been changed to 9.0? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. When was that changed? 18 A. Just recently. After this rainy whether 19 we've had in January. Because the water level wasn't 20 reaching a 9.5 and the cane was still suffering, and so we 21 changed. But it was too late for some of the cane. We 22 have to disk it up. And that was the first time that 23 these had really been tested since they were implemented. 24 This is the first adjustment that's been made since the 25 implementation. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 117 1 Q. The entry, pumping event duration. Let's 2 take the top one. Ten hours or 7.5. Is that whichever 3 comes first? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. On rainfall amount, 24 hours, where it says, 6 one and a half inches to two inches. Does that mean as 7 soon as there's one and a half inches, then you get the 8 delay period started? How does that work? 9 A. Anytime you get rainfall above one and a 10 half inches and less than two inches, then once you reach 11 that point, whatever it is, after waiting eight hours, 12 then if the water level in the canal is a nine, then you 13 can crank the pumps and you can run them for ten hours or 14 until the water level gets down to a 7.5. 15 Q. When does the delay period start? That's 16 what I'm trying to understand. 17 A. When you reach the inch and a half of rain. 18 Anywhere from an inch and a half to two-inch rain event. 19 Q. Let's say it starts to rain and it rains an 20 inch and a half in an hour. Is that something that can 21 happen? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Pumping can't start for another eight hours 24 under this? 25 A. That's correct. And it can only start if BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 118 1 along with the inch and a half rain your water level in 2 the canal reached a 9.0. If the water level in the canal 3 hasn't reached 9.0, you still can't crank them up. 4 Q. Does that start when the water level reaches 5 the 9.0 or when you get the inch and a half of rain? 6 A. No. After you get the rain. The pump start 7 delay is delayed from the end of the rain event where 8 you've reached the threshhold rainfall level. 9 Q. Let's say you get an inch and a half of rain 10 in eight hours. It takes eight hours to get that amount 11 of rain. 12 A. You have to wait another eight hours and 13 then check the water level in the canal to see if it's 14 equipped before you can start. 15 Q. Why did the superintendents come up with 16 these numbers? What prompted them to do it? 17 A. Well, you know, it was suggested that one 18 way we can reduce discharges is, of course, reduce the way 19 we pump. So I'm not sure who came up with this concept, 20 but it was initiated and each superintendent looked at 21 each basin individually and consulted with the farm 22 manager in that particular area. And these are the levels 23 that they set. 24 Q. What parameters were the superintendents 25 using? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 119 1 A. I don't know other than they were given, you 2 know, this rainfall event numbers and the pump delay, the 3 pumping event duration. And then they went out and set 4 the levels in the canals. But the rainfall was already in 5 place, and I'm not sure where they originated from. 6 Q. When did discussions first begin about 7 developing this kind of approach? I don't mean the actual 8 numbers on 3 or 4, but I mean the general approach that's 9 discussed in Number 2. 10 A. I don't know exactly when. Maybe a year and 11 a half or so ago, about a year ago. I just can't remember 12 exactly when. 13 Q. How did you first learn of it? 14 A. I can't remember that either. We've had it 15 there for so long there now and working with it that I 16 just don't remember. 17 Q. Have you gone to meetings about it? 18 A. No. 19 Q. You have not? 20 A. We have not had any organization meetings 21 about it. Just conversation. 22 Q. One-on-one conversations about it or 23 face-to-face meetings? 24 A. Both. 25 Q. Who would those have been with? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 120 1 A. Frank Polhill, and the superintendent and 2 myself. 3 Q. Has Mr. Beardsley had the primary 4 responsibility for developing this? 5 A. For the Western Division. He wrote the 6 narrative, but it was -- he's just the one that did the 7 final writing. But that was after consulting with Mr. 8 Polhill. 9 Q. How about for the Eastern Division? 10 A. These also apply for the Eastern Division. 11 And they have their own basins and their own pumping 12 schedule for their locations. 13 Q. Was there someone who had primary 14 responsibility for that? 15 A. For the Eastern Division? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. The superintendent, along with the farm 18 managers. 19 Q. Who's the superintendent? 20 A. At Eastern? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. Ray Moore. 23 Q. Is the Eastern Division here? 24 A. Yeah. That's the top one, the typed one. 25 All those areas are Eastern Division. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 121 1 Q. Why was reducing phosphorus a concern? 2 A. Is this a trick question? 3 Q. What was your understanding? 4 A. Because of the SWIM Plan. 5 Q. How did you come to have that 6 understanding? That's really what I want to know. 7 A. I read the papers, and I can tell from 8 reading the papers what they're talking about. 9 Q. Was it from any discussions in the course of 10 your work? 11 A. About reducing phosphorus? 12 Q. Yes. 13 A. Sure. We have discussions about reducing 14 phosphorus, and this is one of them. 15 Q. Who were those discussions with? 16 A. Mr. Polhill, the department head. 17 Q. What were the nature of those discussions? 18 When did they occur and what did you talk about? 19 A. I can't remember when they started, but all 20 about the same time we started working on these and the 21 BMPs. I don't remember the exact date. 22 Q. Did he come to you and say we need to 23 develop a way to reduce phosphorus? I'm just trying to 24 understand. 25 A. I don't remember how it happened, to tell BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 122 1 you the truth. 2 Q. Was the assumption until that time that 3 phosphorus was not a concern? 4 A. I can't say that. 5 Q. You don't know one way or the other? 6 A. I can't say whether it was a concern or 7 not. I don't know. 8 Q. Were there any practices in place to control 9 phosphorus? 10 A. I don't know what would be out of control as 11 far as phosphorus. So it would be hard to say whether 12 what we were doing was in control or not or controlling it 13 or not. 14 Q. Well, were there any specific measures that 15 were taken before the schedule was implemented 16 specifically designed to reduce phosphorus discharge? 17 A. We converted a banding on fertilizer. I 18 don't remember exactly when, but it was before this came 19 about. 20 Q. Do you remember when the time scale was? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Is that done uniformly with all fertilizer 23 applications? 24 A. On sugarcane, yes. For our crops, yes. 25 Q. Do you think that was done sometime in the BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 123 1 '80s? 2 A. I can't remember, to tell you the truth. 3 Q. Do you also do soil gradients for 4 determining the fertilizer requirements? 5 A. We don't in the Agriculture Department. 6 Q. Does the Research Department? 7 A. The Research Department takes the soil 8 samples and runs the test and determines, as I explained 9 earlier, what the crop needs; the nutrient requirements 10 for the crop. 11 Q. Do you know if those tests are calibrated? 12 A. No. I don't know anything about it. It's 13 just one less thing we have to worry about as far as the 14 production of the cane. Our Research Department handles 15 it, and we do what they recommend. 16 Q. Anything else in addition to the fertilizer 17 banding? 18 A. I can't think of anything. 19 Q. With respect to water management, was there 20 anything that was specifically done before the schedules 21 were implemented designed to reduce or control phosphorus 22 discharges? 23 A. Not that I'm aware of, no. 24 Q. I just want to understand this. What was 25 your role in developing the practices that are described BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 124 1 in Number 2? 2 A. Well, there's just discussions that were 3 made between myself, and Mr. Polhill and the 4 superintendent about different things in the whole 5 program. 6 Q. For example, did you discuss what would work 7 and what wouldn't work from a farming perspective? 8 A. Primarily that had to be done by the 9 superintendents and their farm managers, and that comes 10 from setting the levels, the come out levels. 11 Q. So the superintendents discussed the levels; 12 what could and couldn't be done, right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Someone else discussed the desired 15 phosphorus reductions? 16 A. We weren't involved in any conversations 17 about a certain level of phosphorus discharge we had to 18 reduce by. We were just trying to see if we couldn't 19 reduce the amount of water we pumped, therefore having a 20 discharge and still make a crop of cane. So that's what 21 our concern was. We didn't deal in water quality. 22 Q. For what's listed as Number 3 on Exhibit 2, 23 controlling the duration of each pumping event, does that 24 refer to the column on these charts that says pumping 25 event duration? Those are the parameters that are now in BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 125 1 place? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you know how those figures were arrived 4 upon, 10 hours, 14 hours, 24 hours? 5 A. No. I don't know how the rainfall, the pump 6 start delay or the pumping event duration -- how that came 7 about. 8 Q. Do you think that it's also too soon to tell 9 one way or the other with these figures -- 10 A. Yes, it's too soon. As I say, we're still 11 learning as recently as this past month with all the 12 rainfall we had. 13 Q. What does Number 4 on this Exhibit 2 refer 14 to? 15 A. Pump stop water level. 16 Q. What's the objective there? 17 A. Not to pump it down any lower than that. 18 Q. Is there just a gauge on the pump that tells 19 you that? 20 A. No. There's gauges in the canals. 21 Q. In the canals? 22 A. Yeah. That give you the water levels. 23 Q. That refers to the column on these charts 24 that says, pump start water level -- 25 A. Water -- BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 126 1 Q. -- and pump stop water level, Number 4? 2 A. Yes. And also harvest operation -- 3 harvest/plant operation, low water level. 4 Q. What does that refer to? 5 A. That's described in another paragraph. The 6 basic pumping practice schedule is in effect year round. 7 During the plant or harvest season, September 1 to March 8 31st, the farm canal system water level may be lowered to 9 and maintained at a level known as the plant/harvest 10 operation water level. This plant/harvest operation water 11 level can be maintained only in the immediate area of 12 plant or harvest operations, beginning one week prior to 13 scheduled harvest operations or beginning with the cutting 14 of seed cane for the plant operations. 15 This level may be maintained only as long as 16 harvest operations are actually being conducted or until 17 such time as the plant cane has germinated. That's 18 basically a foot below the pump stop water level. 19 Q. The final paragraph -- let me ask you again, 20 I'm sorry, about what you just said. A foot below the 21 final water level. How were those numbers arrived at? 22 A. Like I say, we were just working with them. 23 We just set them. Initially having an 18-inch column of 24 water that we're working with, and now you have a 30-inch 25 column of water that you're working with. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 127 1 Q. Does the superintendent set these as well? 2 A. Well, it was -- they were given the criteria 3 to set that a foot below the pump stop water level. So 4 whatever the pump stop water level was minus one foot is 5 what the harvest/plant operation low water level is. 6 Q. This is the first season of application of 7 these criteria? 8 A. Yes. They would begin to be put into 9 operation last summer. 10 Q. The final paragraph seems to refer to events 11 when this procedure can be waived; is that right? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. Have any of those events occurred? 14 A. I'm not sure whether they have on this crop 15 or not. Because with the harvest/plant operation low 16 water level, we may have been able to operate without 17 implementing that. I just can't remember, to tell you the 18 truth, because we are right now harvesting and planting. 19 Q. Who do you think would know the answer to 20 that? 21 A. I don't know if the superintendents would 22 remember or not. 23 Q. Is U.S. Sugar free to change these 24 provisions at any time; the numbers? 25 A. I really don't know where we stand on these BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 128 1 levels and these schedules. I know when we first 2 implemented them, we made it understood, you know, that we 3 were working with them and they are new and experimental. 4 And we got a little bit of time to get them worked in and 5 work out the problems. And whether or not we still make 6 any changes after these or not, I don't know. 7 Q. Was this policy developed in response to the 8 Soft Water Management District's BMP rule? 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Do you know who would know the answer to 11 that? 12 A. Bubba would be involved in that. He's the 13 one that attends the meetings and works with the district. 14 Q. You don't know if this policy is regarded as 15 purely voluntary on U.S. Sugar's part -- 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. -- or something that is mandated? 18 A. As far as I know, it's not mandated. 19 Q. Let's turn to Exhibit Number 5, please. 20 Talking about a page of that exhibit before -- would you 21 identify this for us? 22 MR. BURGESS: Identify the exhibit? 23 MR. GUZY: Yes. 24 MR. BURGESS: What is the exhibit? 25 THE WITNESS: United States Sugar BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 129 1 Corporation Update on Phosphorus Reduction Activities, 2 July the 9th, 1992. 3 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) How did this come to be in 4 your files? 5 A. It was sent to me after being presented to 6 the governing board on April the 9th, 1992, it reads here. 7 Q. Who sent it to you? 8 A. I don't really know. 9 Q. Someone I presume within the company? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you understand it was sent to you for 12 what reason? 13 A. Informational purposes. 14 Q. Was there anything you were supposed to do 15 with this document? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did you read it? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you do anything different as a result of 20 seeing this? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Were you unaware of any of it at the time 23 that you read it? 24 A. No. I knew that the experiment was going 25 on. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 130 1 Q. Do you recall when it was sent to you? 2 A. No, I don't. 3 Q. Who else in the Agriculture Department 4 received this? 5 A. I don't know. 6 Q. Who else in the Agriculture Department has 7 been involved in discussions about phosphorus reduction? 8 A. I guess everybody in the whole department 9 has at one time or another talked to somebody within the 10 department or each other about it. 11 Q. What aspect -- 12 A. It's in all the newspapers, so I'm sure it's 13 a hot topic for those guys who might lose their jobs. So 14 I'm sure they're talking about it. 15 Q. Do you have any particular information about 16 the possibility of job loss? 17 A. Other than what I read, what the different 18 economists have projected. That's all. 19 Q. When you say other than what you read, you 20 mean read in the press? 21 A. That's all I know is what I read in the 22 newspapers, what the different economists have said. 23 Q. Are you at all familiar with any of the 24 proposals for work at Bryant Mill to reduce phosphorus? 25 A. I know they have been doing a lot of work BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 131 1 over there, and I think it's about completed. I don't see 2 that much construction going on anymore, but there's been 3 quite a bit of construction going on over there. 4 Q. You've observed the construction? 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. Have you reviewed any documents? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Do you have any responsibilities in 9 association with that? 10 A. No. Just took some of my cane land and took 11 it out of production. 12 Q. For what purpose? 13 A. To put in the -- whatever it was. The plan 14 to reduce discharges from the Rock Sugar Mill. 15 Q. How much sugarcane? 16 A. I'm not sure how much it is. My guess would 17 be 60, 80 acres. I'm not sure. 18 Q. Do you know the expense that U.S. Sugar has 19 incurred for their new pumping practices -- 20 A. No. 21 Q. -- for the Bryant Mill work? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Let's look at page 4, please. Could you 24 describe for us what that chart depicts? 25 A. It shows farm storage. In other words, out BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 132 1 of the total water we pumped, part of that was stored 2 within the farm in either fallow fields, or vegetable 3 fields, or rice fields or what have you. And this is just 4 a measurement of what first was stored in the field at 5 these different locations. 6 Q. Is there any policy that governs on field 7 storage? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Is there any document similar to the one you 10 showed us about the pumping practices that reflects that? 11 A. No. Because, you know, that's something 12 that is only going to be available in different places in 13 different years. You don't have the same fields out every 14 year, for example. 15 Q. Who made the decision to do the on-field 16 storage that's reflected in this chart? 17 A. The Agriculture Department. 18 Q. Anyone in particular? 19 A. No. Mr. Polhill in talking with me and the 20 superintendents. We had these areas that we could put 21 water on and store in the field, so we tried it. 22 Q. Do you have an opinion about whether it was 23 successful? 24 A. I would say, looking at these figures, it 25 reduced the amount of discharge by about 28.7 percent. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 133 1 Q. Was this the first time that kind of 2 procedure was tried? 3 A. I can't remember. They were trying it 4 before. 5 Q. Was it something that's planned to continue? 6 A. Sure. Anything we can do to reduce the 7 phosphorus on the farm we'll try, if it will work and keep 8 us in production. 9 Q. Does U.S. Sugar regard this, the on-field 10 storage procedure, as something that's volunteer or 11 mandatory? 12 A. Volunteer, the way I understand it. 13 Nobody's told us we are required to hold our water. We 14 are just doing it to see how much we can handle and what 15 affect it might have on the fields adjacent to the ones 16 that are storing the water. 17 Q. Was it something that was developed in 18 response to the district's BMP rule? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. Are there other farms where this was tried 21 and this is just a repetitive example? 22 A. I can't remember if we had any other farms 23 or not, to tell you the truth. 24 Q. What about the last farm listed there, 25 Wetherald 3? It made it so amenable to so much on-field BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 134 1 storage. 2 A. I don't really know unless we had more 3 fields available to store the water in in that location 4 related to the total than the other plantations or the 5 other locations. 6 Q. Let's go on to page 7, please. Are you 7 familiar with the IFAS BMPs? 8 A. I am familiar with these BMPs. Whether 9 their offices or whose ever they are, I'm familiar with 10 them. 11 Q. Do you know of any other BMPs IFAS 12 recommended? 13 A. No. 14 Q. When it says, U.S. Sugar has practiced the 15 following BMPs for many years, do you know for how long? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Who do you think would know whether there 18 are other IFAS BMPs that still can be implemented? 19 A. IFAS, I guess. 20 Q. Is anyone -- 21 A. We don't really -- there are many BMPs out 22 there, and we don't care whose they are. If they work, we 23 will try them. So I don't look at them as being IFAS' 24 BMPs or the district's BMPs. They are just BMPs, and I 25 don't label them. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 135 1 Q. Who has the responsibility at U.S. Sugar for 2 monitoring BMPs and implementing them? 3 A. It depends on which BMPs you're talking 4 about. 5 Q. I don't mean actually monitoring how it 6 works. I mean seeing what the discussion is in the 7 literature or among organizations and what's being 8 recommended. 9 A. I don't know of anybody in particular that's 10 been assigned that responsibility. Just somebody comes up 11 with an idea for BMP and we can do it. 12 Q. No one at U.S. Sugar is particularly the BMP 13 person? 14 A. No, sir. Not that I'm aware of. 15 Q. Is anyone at U.S. Sugar responsible for 16 monitoring whether or not the BMP is working, whether they 17 are reducing the phosphorus? 18 A. I am not responsible for the sampling, 19 research and all the measurements involved in it. 20 Q. Are there other management practices that 21 you are aware of that could be implemented to reduce 22 phosphorus? 23 A. Not that I'm aware of that we're not already 24 looking at. 25 Q. Ones that you -- are there ones that you are BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 136 1 looking at that have yet to be implemented companywide? 2 A. There are some in this book that we haven't 3 gotten to yet. 4 Q. Okay. Let's turn to the next page, please, 5 page 8, I believe. Do you have any particular familiarity 6 with the four alternative plans that are listed on this 7 page? 8 A. There are only three, I guess. That's just 9 a map of the farm. 10 Q. You're referring to the cultivation map? 11 A. Yes. That's just a map of the farm showing 12 where the Cascade and the ASR is and the parallel canal. 13 Q. I appreciate that clarification. 14 A. I don't know that they're all completed 15 yet. I think the Cascade is done. I'm not sure about the 16 parallel canal in this location. There's a parallel canal 17 in another location that is complete. It's not in this 18 map. And the ASR, there's a well there. Whether that's 19 the test well or a final well, I'm not sure of. But this 20 work is done on our land -- in our fields, and it's an 21 effort between our Research and Engineering Departments. 22 Q. Does the Agriculture Department vary with 23 responsibilities? 24 A. We have to operate them once they are in 25 place, yes. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 137 1 Q. Have you had any responsibility so far? 2 A. No. They're not completed. 3 Q. Did you participate in developing any of 4 these alternatives? 5 A. No, I didn't. 6 Q. In designing or implementing any of them? 7 A. No. We were involved in discussions on 8 where to put them. What would be some good places to put 9 them. And it was finally decided Bourne Plantation. 10 Q. What were the factors that were considered 11 there? 12 A. I don't know. Just someplace that would be 13 big enough to put them all right there together. 14 Q. Size? 15 A. So they would be in one place. 16 Q. Any other consideration? 17 A. Not that I'm aware of. 18 Q. Approximately where -- this is in the 19 Eastern Division? 20 A. Yes. That's probably about four, five miles 21 west of 29 Bend. 22 Q. Have you monitored the progress of the 23 construction? 24 A. No. I don't know where they stand on the 25 construction at this point. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 138 1 Q. Are you aware of any other alternatives for 2 reducing phosphorus; the kind of structural alternatives 3 that are discussed here? 4 A. No. Other than this other book. 5 MR. BURGESS: You're referring to Exhibit 6; 6 is that what that book is? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes, Number 6. 8 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Exhibit 5, let's just stick 9 with it for another second. You got it, you read it, then 10 what did you do with it? 11 A. Put it in the file. 12 Q. You had no continuing responsibilities with 13 respect to this? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Number 6, would you identify that, please? 16 A. United States Sugar Corporation Best 17 Management Practices For On-Farm Phosphorus Reductions 18 Through Sediment Control. 19 Q. This is a report? Is it a report? 20 A. Well, it's not a report as much as it is a 21 book listing some of the possible BMPs that we could 22 install to accomplish phosphorus reduction on the farm. 23 Q. Did you have any role in the preparation of 24 this document? 25 A. No. No, I didn't. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 139 1 Q. How did you come to receive it? 2 A. It was sent to me. 3 Q. By whom? 4 A. Hank Andreis. 5 Q. Why did he send it to you? 6 A. Because our department would have to be 7 involved in building a lot of these, finding locations for 8 them and constructing them and doing some of these 9 practices. 10 Q. When was this document prepared? 11 A. I don't remember. It was sometime, again, 12 last summer, if I remember correctly. 13 Q. Have you done anything to implement any of 14 the BMPs that are listed in this document? 15 A. Yes. On page 5, laser level. 16 Q. Uniformly for all the fields? 17 A. As many as we can get to during the time 18 period we have for our land preparation period. Laser 19 level fields, seven days a week, 12 hours a day. 20 Q. What percent of the fields are getting the 21 benefit of that? 22 A. I really don't know. 23 Q. Have you done any calculation of the amount 24 of sediment that's been reduced as a result or any 25 particular -- BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 140 1 A. No, I haven't. 2 Q. Do you know if anyone has? 3 A. No, I don't know. 4 Q. Any others that are being implemented? 5 A. We've, of course, used cover crops, rice 6 being the main one. Zigzag disking on fields that aren't 7 either a cover crop or planted. They are fallowed up to 8 reduce erosion. Planting between the rows, minimum 9 utility for doing that. We haven't done the ones on 13 or 10 15. 11 Q. Bank stabilization and -- 12 A. We have done some of that, yes. Where we 13 dug the rock, recleared the ditch banks back, put the 14 rocks down and put the muck back on the rocks. We have 15 done some of that. Number 17 we have not -- a lot of 16 these we are just now in the process of planting our cane, 17 and these need to be done in the cane fields. If not, you 18 would tear them up. So these are just before being 19 airfield selected and tried. The same with 19, the 20 flexible plastic pipe used to minimize sediment in surface 21 drainage water. And the same with the drainage sump. 22 Q. "The same" meaning you have or have not? 23 A. We have not yet. We have to find locations 24 and give them a try. 25 Q. We -- BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 141 1 A. The culvert location, we have pretty much 2 done that in any culverts that we have had to put in 3 recently. We have not done the risers and installing 4 risers, on page 25, in the drainage pumps. We have a 5 couple of locations in mind, and it's just a matter of 6 deciding where and put them into place. The same with 7 rerouting the water flow in the fields on page 27. 8 Parallel canal, we have already discussed that one. It 9 was in the other book. The sediment trap in the canal, we 10 have one of those under construction. And they may be 11 constructing two now in two different areas. And sumps 12 near drainage pump intakes, that's already been done in 13 some places. This is on page 33. And then canal 14 cleaning, we are continuing to work on canal cleaning. 15 Q. Canal cleaning. What happens to the 16 sediments that are removed? 17 A. They're put on the ditch bank and disked 18 back out into the fields. 19 Q. Do you know if any sampling is done of the 20 sediment? 21 A. No. All of the monitoring and sampling is 22 done by our Research Department, not by the Agriculture 23 Department. 24 Q. Do you know if they did that? 25 A. No. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 142 1 Q. Has a measurement as to the success of these 2 measures been done, whether they successfully -- 3 A. No. No evaluations have been done, to my 4 knowledge, as of yet. It's so new it hasn't been in long 5 enough to have time to measure. 6 Q. Are these regarded as volunteer or mandatory 7 by U.S. Sugar? 8 A. Volunteer, as far as I know. 9 Q. Were they developed in response to the 10 district's BMP bill? 11 A. I don't know. 12 Q. Are there other BMPs or other management 13 practices, aside from the ones described in the documents 14 you've given us, of which you are aware that could be 15 implemented to reduce phosphorus from the U.S. Sugarcane 16 property? 17 MR. BURGESS: We are talking about both 18 Exhibits 5 and 6. 19 THE WITNESS: As far as I know, there are no 20 other ones that I know of. 21 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Is there anyone at U.S. Sugar 22 that consults with IFAS regarding development of BMPs? 23 A. I don't know. I don't. 24 Q. Where would that person be employed, if 25 there was such a person? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 143 1 A. I have no idea. I don't know of anybody who 2 has consulted with them. Since IFAS is a research 3 facility and we have a Research Department, I would assume 4 research would be the ones to do it. But I don't know if 5 it's being done and if it is, who that would be. 6 Q. Are there any BMPs that address the amount 7 of nutrient requirements for sugarcane as a crop? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. Mining, you're not aware of any? 10 A. We don't have anything to do with what 11 fertilizer and at what rates it's used. It's all done by 12 our Research Department. 13 Q. So if anyone would be dealing with it, it 14 would be research? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Have you ever been asked to give any 17 particular instructions to either superintendents, farm 18 managers or anyone further down on the organizational 19 ladder concerning efforts to minimize phosphorus 20 discharges? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Have you ever given those instructions 23 yourself just because you thought that was part of your 24 job? 25 A. No. I mean I consult with the BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 144 1 superintendents to help us find locations to implement 2 these new ideas as they come along and for them to help us 3 find a place to put them and put them to use, but that's 4 about it. 5 Q. Have you ever provided data to the U.S. 6 Department of Agriculture concerning U.S. Sugar's 7 agricultural operations? 8 A. I report our acreage to the ASCS office each 9 year. I don't know if that's through USDA. 10 Q. What is ASCS? 11 A. Agriculture Stabilization and Conservation 12 Service. Just to report our crop's acreages. 13 Q. Is that a federal or state agency? 14 A. It's a federal agency. 15 Q. Do you do that orally or give them a written 16 submission? 17 A. We give them an inventory of our fields 18 every year, show the acres. And they put them on the 19 form, and I go back and sign the form. 20 Q. That's an annual requirement? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Are you the one that's responsible for doing 23 that for U.S. Sugar? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Are those forms in your files? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 145 1 A. Yes. I think they are. 2 Q. Is it your belief that those don't describe 3 U.S. Sugar's agricultural practices? 4 A. No. All they do is say how many acres. And 5 you already knew that from the records we produced before. 6 Q. That's all the information it conveys is the 7 number of acres in sugar production? 8 A. And rice and citrus, yeah. 9 Q. Do they indicate production levels? 10 A. No, they don't. 11 Q. Do you or does U.S. Sugar provide that 12 information to the U.S. Department of Agriculture? 13 A. I don't. 14 Q. Do you know if anyone does? 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. How about to the state? 17 A. I don't. 18 (Whereupon, Parker No. 8 was marked for 19 identification.) 20 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Would you take a look at this 21 document, please. Are you able to identify this? 22 A. You mean read what it is? Sugar and 23 Sweetener Situation and Outlook Yearbook. 24 Q. Have you ever seen this document before? 25 A. Yes. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 146 1 Q. On what occasion did you see it? 2 A. I've seen a copy of it. I don't get the 3 report, but I've seen a copy of it at times. 4 Q. Did you review it as part of your duties at 5 U.S. Sugar? 6 A. No, I didn't. 7 Q. You would sort of look at it for your own 8 information? 9 A. I don't know if I even looked at it. I just 10 remember seeing the front page. 11 Q. Do you happen to know what was said about 12 how much of the United States sugar production is 13 represented by the U.S. Sugar fields that we have been 14 talking about? 15 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 16 THE WITNESS: Are you asking what percent of 17 the sugar produced in the United States is produced by 18 U.S. Sugar? 19 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) You said it much better than 20 I said it. Yes. 21 A. I have been told about one out of every ten 22 tablespoons or teaspoons of sugar produced is produced by 23 U.S. Sugar. 24 Q. Does U.S. Sugar have fields anywhere other 25 than the ones we have been talking about in Florida? BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 147 1 A. No. That's all. 2 Q. I would like to refer you to page 41, in 3 particular Table 8. I ask you to take a look under the 4 entry Florida there. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What do you understand the entry recovery 7 rate to mean? Do you have any understanding of that? 8 A. No. I don't know what they mean here, 9 unless it's a percent yield. 10 Q. Percent yield of total weight maybe? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Are you familiar with the sugar yield per 13 acre for U.S. Sugar for -- let's take the '91-'92 time 14 frame? 15 A. I can't remember what it was. 16 Q. How about '92-'93? 17 A. That's the current crop year right now. 18 Q. That's the current crop year, okay. Do you 19 think it would be more or less than the figure that's 20 indicated here? 21 A. I just can't remember what the figures 22 were. Short tons sugar yield per acre? 23 Q. Right. 24 A. I have no idea. 25 Q. Do you maintain documents that indicate what BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 148 1 those figures would be? 2 A. I have them, yes. 3 Q. What documents would those be? The 4 production records? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What else is on those production records? 7 A. Well, anything that has to do with 8 production, kinds of cane, and percent yield and pounds of 9 sugar per acre. 10 Q. I think you gave before an average of about 11 37 tons per acre U.S. Sugar lands over time as a rough 12 estimate. 13 A. That would be a rough estimate. 14 Q. Do you have a rough estimate of sugar 15 production for U.S. Sugar? 16 MR. BURGESS: Object to the form. 17 THE WITNESS: In what terms? 18 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Is that something you can do 19 in the same way this table does it? 20 A. I don't know what short tons are. 21 Q. Is there some figure that you use for sugar 22 production for keeping track? 23 A. Tons per acre and pounds of sugar per acre, 24 but I can't remember what the figure was. Pounds of sugar 25 per acre is not on here. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 149 1 Q. Do you have a rough estimate of -- over time 2 where it is? 3 A. I don't remember. 4 Q. Would any of that information be reported to 5 any government agencies? 6 A. I'm not aware of it. I don't do it. 7 MR. GUZY: Why don't we take a short break, 8 because I am getting near finished. 9 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 10 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Are there any lands that U.S. 11 Sugar does not own but leases for production? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What kinds of lands are they? What kind of 14 production is done on them? 15 A. Sugarcane. 16 Q. What areas is that? 17 A. Same areas you have the maps of. They are 18 not identified separately, but they are included in all of 19 the acres, the maps that I have given you. 20 Q. When you say, "the maps", do you mean marked 21 as Parker Number 1? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Are they in a single area, or a few areas or 24 disbursed throughout? 25 A. Disbursed. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 150 1 Q. Do you have an acreage estimate? 2 A. No, sir, I sure don't. 3 Q. A percentage estimate of how much -- what 4 percent of the land? 5 A. That's handled, again, by someone else. 6 MR. BURGESS: Just for the record, I think 7 in response to your request for production we submitted 8 documents that show the percentage of owned versus leased 9 land. 10 MR. GUZY: Thanks. 11 Q. (By Mr. Guzy) Do you know approximately how 12 many people who lease the lands there are to U.S. Sugar? 13 A. I'm not sure. We have a director of real 14 estate, and he handles that. 15 Q. Do any of the farming practices that we've 16 discussed today differ for leased lands versus owned 17 lands? 18 A. No, they don't. 19 Q. Do any of the water management practices 20 we've discussed differ from one to the other? 21 A. No, they don't. 22 Q. Any of the BMP or phosphorus control 23 efforts, do they differ from leased lands to owned lands? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Is there a relevant distinction other than BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 151 1 the ownership of the property for those lands? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Mr. Parker, we have sat here today; we have 4 asked you a lot of questions about a lot of things. And I 5 don't mean this as a criticism, but I am a little puzzled 6 by how you spend your typical day. Do you have something 7 that you regard as a typical day? 8 A. No day is typical in our department. Just 9 whatever fires come up that day you put them out. I mean 10 I've worked in every area sometime or another during my 26 11 years and done every operation within our department. So 12 I just use that experience and help and advise as needed. 13 Q. What percent of your time do you spend in 14 the office and what percent of your time do you spend in 15 the field? 16 A. More time in the office than I'd like. Here 17 lately it's probably been 75 percent inside in the 18 office. Whereas before it was 75 percent in the field. 19 Q. Are there major project areas that you are 20 responsible for consulting on? 21 A. No. I mean it's not any one particular 22 thing. It's just any number of things that could come up 23 that the senior vice president would want me to take care 24 of. 25 Q. There are day-to-day fires that might come BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 152 1 up? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Are there any planning efforts that you are 4 involved with? 5 A. Planting or planning? 6 Q. Planning. No T. 7 A. Yes. I talk with Mr. Polhill about planning 8 and anything to do with our sugarcane production. 9 Q. What would those planning efforts be? 10 A. Planning how many acres you're going to 11 plant, when you're going to start and finish, whether 12 you're going to contract to do it or do it yourself. Same 13 with planting the harvest. When to start, stop, contract 14 it or do it yourself. Any planning at all is usually 15 discussed between the two of us. 16 Q. Are you involved in any long-term planning 17 efforts? 18 A. Sure. We always look in the long-term. We 19 don't have any specific goals or anything like that, just 20 primarily trying to keep our costs down as low as we can 21 so we can stay in business in light of all the things that 22 are facing us right now with this SWIM Plan and other 23 things, too. We are constantly looking at ways to keep 24 our costs where they are or even lower if possible. 25 Q. Are there any particular efforts that you're BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 153 1 focusing on long-term? 2 A. No. Like I say, anything we can do to try 3 to keep our costs where they're at, keep them from going 4 up so that we can stay in business. 5 Q. When you said there aren't any particular 6 goals that you have in mind, what were you referring to? 7 A. We don't have anything in writing that we 8 plan that far ahead about, but we just try to think as far 9 ahead about anything that may come up and be prepared to 10 handle it. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 MR. GUZY: Mr. Parker, I appreciate your 13 cooperation and generosity in indulging in all of my 14 questions. I don't have anything further. 15 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 16 CROSS EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. BURGESS: 18 Q. Mr. Parker, Exhibits 6 and 7 to your 19 deposition address management practices, including best 20 management practices that United States Sugar Corporation 21 has either implemented or is considering for on farm 22 implementation. 23 MR. GUZY: Do you mean 5 and 6? 24 MR. BURGESS: I'm sorry. Exhibits 5 and 6. 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 154 1 Q. (By Mr. Burgess) Although you have not read 2 the entire SWIM Plan, do you understand that all of these 3 management practices or best management practices that are 4 either being considered or are being implemented are 5 designed to address the issue of phosphorus reduction on 6 U.S. Sugar farms? 7 MR. GUZY: Objection as to form. 8 MR. BURGESS: What's the objection? 9 MR. GUZY: He said he hasn't read any of it. 10 Q. (By Mr. Burgess) The management practices 11 or best management practices either being implemented or 12 considered for implementation are designed to address the 13 issue of phosphorus reduction on U.S. Sugar lands? 14 A. Yes. 15 MR. BURGESS: I don't have any further 16 questions. 17 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. GUZY: 19 Q. What do you base that understanding on? 20 A. Well, because both of the documents that we 21 are talking about talk about phosphorus reduction 22 activities. So I think it's rather obvious that that's 23 what their design is for, is to reduce phosphorus. 24 Q. Is it a fair summary to say you base it on a 25 review of those two documents? Your reading of these BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 155 1 documents? 2 A. That what? 3 Q. You just said they are designed for 4 phosphorus reduction. 5 A. Yes. 6 MR. GUZY: Thank you. I don't have anything 7 further. 8 MR. BURGESS: We will read. 9 (Whereupon, the deposition was concluded at 10 3:35 P. M.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 156 1 WITNESS' CERTIFICATE 2 I do hereby certify that the pages numbered 3 1 to 155, inclusive, are true and correct to the best of 4 my knowledge, except as noted on the lawyer's note page. 5 6 7 _______________________________ 8 WALTER PARKER 9 10 11 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME THIS ______ DAY 12 OF ___________, 1993. 13 14 _______________________________ 15 Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622 157 1 CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF FLORIDA ) ) ss. 3 COUNTY OF BROWARD ) 4 I, Debrah Veroni, a Shorthand Reporter and 5 Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, do 6 hereby certify that I reported the deposition of WALTER 7 PARKER, a witness called by the Intervenors in the 8 above-styled cause; that the witness was duly sworn by me 9 to tell the whole truth; that the foregoing pages, 10 numbered 1 to 155 inclusive, constitute a true record of 11 the deposition of said witness as stenographically 12 recorded by me; and that this transcript was prepared 13 under my supervision. 14 I further certify that I am not an attorney 15 or counsel of any of the parties, nor a relative or 16 employee of any attorney or counsel connected with the 17 action, nor financially interested in the action. 18 WITNESS my hand and official seal in the 19 City of Fort Lauderdale, County of Broward, State of 20 Florida, this 15th day of February, 1993. 21 22 23 ____________________________________ Debrah Veroni 24 Shorthand Reporter Notary Public, State of Florida 25 at Large Commission Expires: December 6, 1996 BALLOWE REPORTING SERVICE (305) 761-1622