1
1 DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, STATE OF FLORIDA
2
SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE )
3 OF FLORIDA; ROTH FARMS, INC.; and )
WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC., )
4 Petitioners, )
vs. )DOAH Case No. 92-3038
5 SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
DISTRICT, an agency of the State )
6 of Florida; et al., )
Respondents. )
7 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC., )
8 UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; )
and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC., )
9 Petitioners, )
vs. )DOAH Case No. 92-3039
10 SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
DISTRICT, an agency of the State )
11 of Florida; et al., )
Respondents. )
12 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE )
13 ASSOCIATION; LEWIS POPE FARMS; )
W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., )
14 and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., )
Petitioners, )
15 vs. )DOAH Case No. 92-3040
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
16 DISTRICT, an agency of the State )
of Florida; et al., )
17 Respondents. )
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
18 100 Southeast 2nd Street
Miami, Florida
19 February 7, 1994
9:25 a.m. - 5:30 p.m.
20
DEPOSITION OF RONALD D. JONES
21 VOLUME I - A.M. SESSION
22 Taken before RICHARD BURSKY, Registered
23 Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for
24 the State of Florida at Large, pursuant to Notice of
25 Taking Deposition filed in the above cause.
2
1 APPEARANCES
2 ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONERS SUGAR CANE GROWERS
COOPERATIVE OF FLORIDA, ROTH FARMS, INC. AND
3 WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC.
4 HOPPING BOYD GREEN & SAMS
123 South Calhoun Street
5 Tallahassee, Florida 32314
BY: GARY P. SAMS, ESQ.
6
7 ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONERS FLORIDA SUGAR CANE
LEAGUE, INC., UNITED STATES SUGAR CORP., and
8 NEW SOUTH HOPE, INC.
9 EARL BLANK KAVANAUGH & STOTTS, P.A.
One Biscayne Tower - Suite 3636
10 Two South Biscayne Boulevard
Miami, Florida 33131
11 BY: ROBERT H. BLANK, ESQ.
WILLIAM L. HYDE, ESQ.
12
13 ON BEHALF OF THE RESPONDENT SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT
14
STANLEY J. NIEGO, ESQ.
15 South Florida Water Management District
3301 Gun Club Road
16 West Palm Beach, Florida 33406
17
ON BEHALF OF THE RESPONDENT-INTERVENOR
18 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
19 SUZAN HILL PONZOLI, ESQ.
Assistant United States Attorney
20 99 Northeast 4th Street
Third Floor
21 Miami, Florida 33132
22 PRESENT:
23 TRUMAN E. DUNCAN
JOSEPH HARRIS
24 B.J. PRESLEY
25
3
1
INDEX
2
Witness Direct
3 RONALD DEAN JONES
4 By Mr. Hyde: 5
5 EXHIBITS
6 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
1 CV 6
7 2 Bates No. 1170815 24
3 Bates No. 1169986 T 26
8 4 Bates No. 1168919 31
5 Bates No. 1169966 32
9 6 Bates No. 1169885 41
7 Bates No. 1192685 46
10 8 Bates No. 1192679 50
9 Bates No. 1192622 52
11 10 Bates No. 1169774 54
11 Bates No. 1169786 56
12 12 Bates No. 1169985 T 59
13 Bates No. 1192637 61
13 14 Bates No. 1192122 63
15 Bates No. 1169753 65
14 16 Letter dated 11/19/93 69
17 Letter dated 01/10/94 74
15 18 Letter dated 09/03/93 75
19 Bates No. 1169903 76
16 20 Bates No. 1171153 95
21 Bates No. 1169747 96
17 22 Bates No. 1168479 97
23 Bates No. 1171624 99
18 24 Bates No. 1171016 100
25 Bates No. 1168507 102
19 26 Bates No. 1171149 106
27 Bates No. 1192369 108
20 28 Bates No. 1169842 110
29 Bates No. 1169840 112
21 30 Bates No. 1169839 113
31 Bates No. 1169838 113
22 32 Bates No. 1171150 115
33 Bates No. 1171592 116
23 34 Bates No. 1168658 120
35 Bates No. 1169888 121
24 36 Bates No. 1171635 122
37 Bates No. 1169763 124
25 38 Bates No. 1169833 129
4
1 EXHIBITS
2 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
39 Bates No. 1169816 131
3 40 Bates No. 1169829 132
41 Bates No. 1169791 133
4 42 Bates No. 1171012 135
43 Bates No. 1193341 135
5 44 Bates No. 1168654 136
45 Bates No. 1168774 137
6 46 Bates No. 1192388 138
47 Bates No. 1170662 140
7 48 Bates No. 1169775 141
49 Bates No. 1169734 143
8 50 Bates No. 1169735 149
51 Bates No. 1169858 150
9 52 Bates No. 1169869 155
53 Declaration 157
10 54 Supp. Summ. of Testimony/Opinions 158
(Govt Ex. 8 C)
11 55 Supp. Summ. of Testimony/Opinions 158
(with editorial changes)
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
5
1 Thereupon --
2 RONALD D. JONES
3 was called as a witness and having been duly
4 affirmed, was examined and testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. HYDE:
7 Q. Would you please state your name and
8 address for the record?
9 A. My name is Dr. Ronald D. Jones. I reside
10 at 15069 Southwest 13th Court in Sunrise, Florida.
11 Q. Dr. Jones, my name is William Hyde. I am
12 with the Earl Blank Kavanaugh & Stotts law firm and I
13 represent US Sugar Corporation and the Florida Sugar
14 Cane League in an administrative proceeding otherwise
15 known as the Everglades SWIM Plan case.
16 Are you familiar with that proceedings?
17 A. Yes, I am.
18 Q. I intend to ask you a series of questions
19 here today concerning documents that you have
20 produced and the opinions and testimony that you may
21 well be offering in a final hearing in this matter.
22 If you do not understand my questions at
23 any time please tell me and I will attempt to
24 reformulate them.
25 If your counsel objects I would suggest
6
1 that you halt just for the moment and let the
2 attorneys work out the objection and then we will
3 take it from there. In most instances you will still
4 answer, it will be just an objection noted for the
5 record.
6 If you do not ask me to rephrase a
7 question, I will presume that you understand what I
8 am asking you and that your response is intended to
9 be responsive to the question.
10 So it is very important that you be very
11 clear in what you think I am asking you at any given
12 time during the course of this deposition.
13 Off the record.
14 (Discussion off the record)
15 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 1 was marked for
16 identification)
17 BY MR. HYDE:
18 Q. Dr. Jones, would you please identify what
19 has been marked as Jones Exhibit 1?
20 A. This is the most recent update of my
21 curriculum vitae that I have at the moment.
22 Q. When did you prepare this document
23 approximately?
24 A. I think it was around September or October
25 of last year, 1993.
7
1 Q. Is there anything that should be updated
2 since that time?
3 A. There are perhaps a couple of abstracts,
4 another grant or two. Let me see for a moment.
5 (Pause)
6 A. Some publications in press or that have
7 been submitted.
8 Q. Can you be a little more specific about
9 what those are?
10 (Pause)
11 A. There is an additional $140,000 grant or
12 contract, whatever you want to call it, coming from
13 the Environmental Protection Agency going through
14 Everglades National Park to look at mercury in the
15 Everglades system that is not listed.
16 There is another contract from the
17 Miccosukee Tribe of Indians to examine some water
18 quality parameters in the, on the Miccosukee lands in
19 Water Conservation Area 3A.
20 There is a contract to do nutrients for
21 the National Undersea Research Center, their Keys
22 laboratory.
23 And there might be one or two others but I
24 can't think of them at the moment.
25 Q. Is this nutrient study directed to Florida
8
1 Bay?
2 A. No. It is directed to the reef tract and
3 the marine waters predominantly, although that
4 doesn't preclude the use of the instrument to do
5 Florida Bay waters or anything else.
6 Q. So to your recollection are there any
7 other studies that you can recall at this time?
8 A. Not that I can recall. I may miss one or
9 two here. We have a lot of grants and I have a lot
10 of other people working in the program that I am very
11 often a co-investigator on but not chief in charge of
12 that particular proposal. Those are all of my major
13 ones.
14 Q. What about additional publications at this
15 time?
16 A. Okay, I am looking.
17 (Pause)
18 A. There is a paper coming out in, I think it
19 is -- I can't think the name of the journal right
20 now, I am sorry, Biotropica, something like that, on
21 Hurricane Andrew effects. That should be in the, I
22 think, the April issue of that. I think that's all
23 for the papers that are in press,
24 For manuscript submitted, the same
25 manuscript listed as submitted here has been, is in
9
1 the process of being resubmitted. It is an Amador
2 and Jones, Affects of Carbon Sources in Phosphorus.
3 Q. You said it is being resubmitted?
4 A. No, it is in the process of being
5 submitted to Soil Biology and Biochemistry, we
6 recently got around to that. Dr. Amador who was in
7 my shop moved to University of Rhode Island and as
8 you can imagine, starting up a new career somewhere
9 else he is faced with teaching undergraduates and
10 everything else so he has taken a bit of time to
11 getting this paper ready.
12 Q. I noticed in looking at your old CV it
13 appeared this same document had been submitted to
14 something called FEMS, F E M S, Microbial Ecology?
15 A. Yes. In fact, it had been submitted first
16 to Applied and Environmental Microbiology and then
17 FEMS, the Federation of European Microbiological
18 Societies. We were tying to get this into a
19 microbiological journal but the resounding view of
20 the reviewers was it was really more of a soils
21 paper, not really a micro paper. So we have gone to
22 submitting it to the soils journals.
23 We have another manuscript we submitted to
24 Nature just recently, that is Photo Production of
25 Carbon Monoxide in the World's Oceans. So it is not
10
1 really relevant to these proceedings.
2 Q. Was your Hurricane Andrew paper relevant
3 to these proceedings in any way?
4 A. I don't believe so, other than the fact
5 that the hurricane did some destruction across the
6 Everglades.
7 Q. Have you provided us with a copy of the
8 Hurricane Andrew study?
9 A. No, I have not.
10 A. In fact, I didn't receive a copy of that
11 until just recently. This is a paper that has I
12 believe seven or eight authors of which, I think I am
13 third author on it.
14 MR. HYDE: Suzan, would it be possible for
15 to us get a copy of that document?
16 MS. PONZOLI: Let me say, are you going to
17 object when I ask for similar articles that are not
18 relevant to the proceedings from your experts? Will
19 you be willing to provide them?
20 MR. HYDE: I think it would depend on a
21 case by case basis. But I am just asking, I am not
22 even going to ask questions about it right now, I
23 just wanted to know if I could get a copy of it for
24 my records and take a look at it. I doubt very much
25 it will be relevant but until I look at it I don't
11
1 know for a fact that it isn't. Hurricane Andrew
2 certainly did affect some of the Water Conservation
3 Areas and the Park so it is arguably relevant to
4 these proceedings.
5 THE WITNESS: It is a marine resource
6 paper, it is not a freshwater Park paper.
7 MR. HYDE: I didn't know that.
8 BY MR. HYDE:
9 Q. Does it then deal with what happened in
10 the mangrove areas on the west side of the Park?
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. Does it have anything to do with the Water
13 Conservation Areas?
14 A. It does not.
15 MR. HYDE: Then I guess I don't need it.
16 MS. PONZOLI: So you are withdrawing your
17 request?
18 MR. HYDE: Yes.
19 BY MR. HYDE:
20 Q. Any other changes on this CV?
21 A. There are several other abstracts that
22 have been, presentations that have been made, one by
23 myself at the recent Soil Science Society of America
24 meetings dealing with agricultural impacts on
25 freshwater Everglades, and you have that abstract.
12
1 It was sent over. I just don't have it here.
2 Then there are a number of other abstracts
3 that have just recently gone in for the American
4 Society of Limnology and Oceanography meetings
5 upcoming and they are, are yet to be presented, the
6 material. I do not believe any of that is relevant
7 to these hearings.
8 Q. Does any of it deal with the Everglades?
9 A. It deals with Florida Bay for the most
10 part. I don't think that there is anything dealing
11 with Everglades.
12 There are two other abstracts not listed
13 here that have to do with mercury in the Everglades.
14 And you have those abstracts.
15 The last thing would be there is an
16 additional patent that is not listed here.
17 Q. What is the patent for?
18 A. It is for a method of utilizing nitrite
19 oxidizing bacteria for the aquaria, again.
20 I think that's all.
21 Q. Concerning the item you identified
22 earlier, that is the $140,000 contract for a mercury
23 study, have you provided us with copies related to
24 that particular study?
25 A. Yes. Again, it is in addition to an
13
1 already continuing study so this is just a
2 supplemental budget increase and I believe that those
3 documents were in my material. Whether you took them
4 all or not, I don't know.
5 Q. Doctor, prior to coming in here today I
6 have been examining the CV that was identified as
7 Government Exhibit 8 A I guess from a previous
8 deposition. Would it be fair to say that the only
9 differences between your former CV and the current
10 one just reflect an updating of publications, grants,
11 abstracts and the like?
12 A. I believe so. I am not sure whether that
13 one reflects my current position in the southeast
14 environmental research program at the university.
15 Q. It doesn't appear to.
16 A. It would be at the bottom if it would. I
17 am currently the director of the southeast
18 environmental research program at Florida
19 International University.
20 Q. What are your responsibilities in that
21 regard?
22 A. We are setting up an interdisciplinary
23 program to examine sort of the environmental
24 research, I don't want to call them problems but the
25 environmental research areas, particularly in South
14
1 Florida, but not just there. We would also like to
2 look at areas such as the Caribbean and South and
3 Central America. But we are predominantly charged
4 with trying to develop and further establish a core
5 of research scientists who can take their talents and
6 apply it to environmental issues facing particularly
7 South Floridians.
8 Q. How many people are within this department
9 or program?
10 A. As we have faculty members, if you will,
11 or Ph.D.s on academic type of positions, there are
12 currently six of us in that program, and then I have
13 an additional 23 people working in my laboratory
14 ranging all the way from people with their Ph.D.s
15 working on postdoctoral research associate type
16 positions to chemists, technicians all the way down
17 to students.
18 Q. Is this a program that is funded by the
19 university or by some other entity?
20 A. It is funded by the State of Florida.
21 Q. A particular branch of the State of
22 Florida?
23 A. The state university system.
24 Q. Other than that one amendment to your CV,
25 is there any other substantive change in the CV from
15
1 your previous one?
2 A. By the time we are done with this I
3 probably will be full professor. I have gone up for
4 that. So we haven't added that on.
5 Q. When do you anticipate that occurring?
6 A. I made it through all the substantial
7 challenges or whatever you want to call it, the
8 procedures to go there, and it is just a matter now
9 of the president signing off on it.
10 Q. Do you anticipate that happening in the
11 reasonably near future, then?
12 A. It should happen either this month or
13 early next month.
14 Q. Dr. Jones, do you have with you here today
15 a copy of our document or pleadings styled Re-Notice
16 of Taking Deposition Duces Tecum?
17 A. This is from the League?
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. I believe I do.
20 Q. Yes, okay.
21 Q. Dr. Jones, I would like you to turn to
22 page 7 of that document, if you will, beginning on
23 page 7 there are a series of numbered paragraphs, 1
24 through 19, there are documents that we wished for
25 you to produce in preparation for this deposition.
16
1 And I believe that you have received a notice of
2 taking deposition before and have produced documents
3 that were responsive to that.
4 Have you produced all of the documents
5 that have been identified in this particular
6 pleading?
7 A. I went over --
8 MS. PONZOLI: Before you answer, Dr.
9 Jones, I would like to refresh your recollection, Mr.
10 Hyde, that I had to solicit this notice and we
11 received it late Friday afternoon. We did read
12 through it, and he can answer, of course, for himself
13 what we have produced, but I would like the record to
14 reflect the lateness of that notice and the fact that
15 we in good faith solicited it because we were
16 concerned that we had not received one and there
17 might be some mistake.
18 MR. HYDE: So noted.
19 BY MR. HYDE:
20 Q. Dr. Jones, have you reviewed this
21 document?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. Did you produce all the documents that are
24 responsive to it?
25 A. To the best of my knowledge.
17
1 Q. Have you withheld any documents on the
2 basis of any privilege, either academic or litigation
3 related?
4 A. Yes, I have.
5 Q. Have you provided a list of those
6 documents?
7 MS. PONZOLI: That is not the custom in
8 this case, as you are well aware, Mr. Hyde, to
9 produce a list at this time.
10 MR. HYDE: When do you anticipate you will
11 produce a list?
12 MS. PONZOLI: I think when counsel among
13 all themselves reach an agreement as to how all
14 counsel will produce those lists, then we will abide
15 by whatever that agreement is.
16 MR. HYDE: Suzan, correct me if I am
17 wrong, but I thought we had all been providing lists
18 of documents we were claiming privileges for.
19 MS. PONZOLI: I think that there have been
20 some lists provided. I think that virtually every
21 party at this table is in serious arrears on their
22 list. If I am wrong, if it is only my party, then I
23 will stand corrected, but I don't think that is
24 accurate.
25 I think I can go back to the list of prior
18
1 depositions and find a significant number for which I
2 do not have The League's nor the Cooperative's nor
3 the District. Well, the District turns everything
4 over in public records anyway. But in any event, we
5 will abide by whatever the agreement is.
6 BY MR. HYDE:
7 Q. Dr. Jones, what types of documents have
8 you withheld, if you can recall?
9 A. A number of materials used -- that have
10 not yet been used in preparing the case for the
11 United States.
12 Q. You say documents that haven't been used?
13 A. Have not been used.
14 Q. Are they responsive to any of the items
15 listed here?
16 MS. PONZOLI: I would imagine, Mr. Hyde,
17 that since your request seems to cover anything that
18 touches the Everglades, it would be difficult for
19 them not to be responsive. These are very broad
20 requests.
21 MR. HYDE: I think intentionally so and no
22 different than any of the other parties to this
23 proceeding.
24 MS. PONZOLI: I believe that the League
25 has taken the position that unless a document
19
1 represents something upon which his expert is going
2 to offer an opinion, it is not responsive no matter
3 how broad the request. And we have not responded in
4 that way to these requests. We have been far more
5 generous in providing documents.
6 MR. HYDE: I am just concerned, Suzan,
7 what you think might be relevant to the request and
8 what I think might be relevant to the request could
9 well be different things.
10 MS. PONZOLI: Certainly, and I think the
11 privilege list is probably the way to resolve that.
12 MR. HYDE: Let's go ahead and work out the
13 privilege list at some later time, but I think it is
14 something that we need to do sooner instead of later.
15 MS. PONZOLI: I would agree with that.
16 MR. HYDE: And I would ask all parties to
17 get that done as soon as possible and if parties'
18 documents are in arrears they should get current.
19 But I don't think it should delay, especially given
20 the imminency of a final hearing in this matter, I
21 would like to get that list as soon as possible.
22 BY MR. HYDE:
23 Q. Dr. Jones, are there any other bases for
24 withholding documents that are responsive to this
25 documents request?
20
1 A. Some of the documents that were as to the
2 internal workings of the university, i.e., contracts
3 documents, things that went over between the
4 Comptroller's Office and that are functioning at that
5 level and the university, I did not consider to be
6 responsive to this type of a thing. They were, I
7 don't know if you want to say withheld, but they were
8 not presented.
9 Q. Are these documents that are privileged or
10 confidential under state law?
11 A. They are documents that are not routinely
12 made available. Many documents in the state under
13 sunshine of course are placed in the library with
14 finances and things like that. These are documents
15 that a request has to be made through the university
16 attorney to receive.
17 Q. Who is the university attorney?
18 A. I don't know for sure who we are
19 contracting, the university's attorney is a contract
20 basis. Right now Leslie W. Langbine is our counsel
21 who is operating an office on campus.
22 Q. Can you spell her last name for me?
23 A. I believe L A N G B I N E, but I am not
24 sure.
25 Q. Just to be certain that I understand you,
21
1 a request for any of those type of documents should
2 be made through Ms. Langbine or some associate of
3 hers before the university will release them?
4 A. That is correct. But to make it clear,
5 you do have the base documents, they were produced,
6 in other words, a document that has the general
7 budgets and things like that. I just did not turn
8 over the documents that went to the State
9 Comptroller's Office and things like that.
10 Q. Have you withheld any documents of
11 Everglades related research?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Have you withheld any documents on the
14 basis of an academic privilege?
15 A. No, because the documents that I have not,
16 did not make available were not responsive to this.
17 They were dealing -- I have a large number of other
18 programs dealing in areas that are the South Pacific,
19 for instance, that I don't believe that that is -- I
20 didn't make all of my files available.
21 Q. I understand you wouldn't want to give me
22 files about the South Pacific although I might find
23 them interesting, especially for a field trip.
24 Have you withheld any research that is
25 related to the Everglades SWIM Plan or related
22
1 controversies such as mercury in South Florida?
2 A. No, I have not.
3 MS. PONZOLI: Mr. Hyde, if you make
4 requests to the FIU university attorney, the United
5 States would request that you give us a courtesy copy
6 of all the things you request.
7 MR. HYDE: Certainty.
8 Q. Have you withheld any documents that were,
9 for lack of a better term, attorney-client or work
10 product privilege related documents?
11 A. Yes.
12 MS. PONZOLI: That is a legal question,
13 Mr. Hyde. I would make those determinations, not Dr.
14 Jones.
15 MR. HYDE: I am just asking him since he
16 is the sworn witness whether any have been withheld
17 on that basis and I believe he told me there have
18 been. We will have to address what those documents
19 are at a later time.
20 BY MR. HYDE:
21 Q. Have you withheld any documents on the
22 basis of any other asserted privilege or claim that
23 would prevent me from examining them today?
24 A. No.
25 MS. PONZOLI: That is to the best of his
23
1 knowledge, Mr. Hyde. I assign the privileges.
2 MR. HYDE: Should I put you under oath?
3 MS. PONZOLI: I think you are trying.
4 MR. HYDE: Off the record for a minute.
5 (Discussion off the record)
6 BY MR. HYDE:
7 Q. Dr. Jones, I have placed in front of you a
8 stack of documents which are a copy of all the
9 documents that were provided to us by your office I
10 guess on January 28. Our review of these documents
11 didn't reveal them to be in any particular order and
12 many of them are unidentified or unidentifiable such
13 that we don't really know what they are.
14 What we have tried to do here today is to
15 group them logically to the extent that was possible
16 and, for example, the first batch of documents
17 appears to deal with Everglades National Park. That
18 seems to be the one consistent theme of those
19 documents.
20 We would like to go through these
21 documents in some initial fashion and identify what
22 they are and what they purport to be.
23 Just to be sure we are all on the same
24 page, this should be the first document here with a
25 Bates number at the bottom of 1170815. Is that
24
1 correct?
2 A. That's correct.
3 MR. HYDE: Why don't we label that Jones
4 Exhibit 2.
5 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 2 was marked for
6 identification)
7 BY MR. HYDE:
8 Q. Dr. Jones, can you identify this document
9 for me?
10 A. It would appear to be field notes from Dr.
11 Ron Raschke at Environmental Protection Agency.
12 Q. Do you know what it purports to reflect?
13 A. I can only look at the labeling of the
14 figures and it seems to indicate species richness,
15 things on different species of cyanobacteria,
16 blue-green algae, diatoms, found in I think
17 Everglades National Park because it says S-12C
18 structure on the top of this.
19 Q. These appear to be, for lack of a better
20 term, summary graphs. Do you know whether there is
21 any or do you have any other information beyond this
22 particular summary format, like backup data or
23 anything like that?
24 A. No, I do not, other than there has been a
25 paper produced from this and I know that was turned
25
1 over in my documents previously.
2 Q. Do you know which paper that was?
3 A. It is not my paper. It is a paper by Dr.
4 Raschke. And it is just in, the references are
5 there.
6 Q. There is a publication or a paper?
7 A. A scientific publication.
8 Q. Do you recall the name or the subject
9 matter of that paper at all?
10 A. I believe it has something to do with the
11 diatoms in the Water Conservation Areas and
12 Everglades National Park. It is not my paper.
13 Q. Are you relying on Jones Exhibit 2 in any
14 way, shape or form in the preparation of your
15 testimony?
16 A. I believe that some of the findings are of
17 interest but I would not say that I am relying on it.
18 It in fact relies on some of my data, I would
19 suspect.
20 Q. In brief, why do you believe some of the
21 findings are interesting?
22 A. Just the difference species of organisms
23 found at different phosphorus concentrations in the
24 system.
25 Q. Does this summary graph reflect a
26
1 comparison of periphyton species found at different
2 locations?
3 A. This is a little too crude for me to make
4 that type of -- I mean, I have trouble figuring out
5 what is on any of these axes or anything else.
6 MR. HYDE: Let's go to the next document
7 now. We will label it Jones Exhibit 3. It begins
8 with Bates number 1169986 T.
9 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 3 was marked for
10 identification)
11 BY MR. HYDE:
12 Q. Can you identify this document for me?
13 (Pause)
14 A. I don't want to guess on any of this
15 stuff. But we are looking at some of the dates from
16 14 November 1988, that it is just a little old.
17 Q. Did you prepare this document?
18 A. Yes. I am certain that this came out
19 of -- it is machine output from a nutrient analyzer
20 in my laboratory. And from the looks of it it came
21 from the National Park Service's nutrient dosing
22 study, the channels in Everglades National Park.
23 It looks like water quality data taken at
24 that time.
25 Q. Its date is November 14, 1988. Is that to
27
1 your knowledge the date of collection or the date of
2 analysis?
3 A. My understanding is that that would be the
4 date of collection of the samples. The date of
5 analysis would have been either the next day or
6 perhaps even that same day.
7 Q. Where is the Sludge River? I am not
8 familiar with that at all.
9 A. We don't use that term anymore. I had a
10 technician, I had a technician who put that on this
11 particular document and --
12 Q. Why did he assign it that moniker?
13 A. If you had ever seen the damage caused by
14 phosphorus in the nutrient dosing site, it is pretty
15 much of a blight on the rest of Shark River Slough.
16 So he was familiar with that and I believe referred
17 to it as the Sludge River for that reason.
18 Q. Describe for me, if you will, what this
19 document is representing, if you could just go
20 beneath the date itself on the first page. It says
21 DW blank equals 4.75. What does that mean?
22 A. The blank, on an instrument that we use,
23 the nutrient analyzer, there is a baseline. And you
24 want to check and see how close your baseline is to
25 your distilled water which is what DW stands for.
28
1 And so the DW blank is simply the value in offset or
2 in peak height units of whatever that was.
3 Q. What does baseline offset mean, then?
4 A. That means where the baseline was, if you
5 if you take these two pieces of data together, the
6 baseline offset, and were to subtract the DW blank
7 from it, you would find that we didn't have a blank,
8 that there was no instrument blank.
9 Q. Beneath DW blank is 5.0, then it looks
10 like a small case u, capital M then an STD, then it
11 says, equals 69.25. What does that represent?
12 A. That means 5, and the u is our computer's
13 lack of ability to make a Greek letter called Mu, M
14 U, which means micro, micromoler which is ten to the
15 minus sixth moles. And it is just a concentration.
16 It is a way most chemists relate concentration rather
17 than in parts per billion.
18 Then the STD stands for standard. That
19 then is what the 5 micromoler standard was at that
20 time.
21 Q. Then standard height is 64.50, what does
22 that represent?
23 A. If I am not mistaken, you will find if you
24 take the 69.25 and subtract 4.75 from that you would
25 get the standard height. And that's just a unit to
29
1 make for comparison.
2 Q. When you say standard height, what of?
3 A. In this case, this is ammonia analysis and
4 so that would be a standard of ammonia.
5 Q. Beneath that there are five columns, the
6 first of which is sample site. What is that?
7 A. A generic representation of where the
8 sample was collected or it could be a number of things.
9 Q. The first one, for example, says 10, then
10 it looks like small case mr. What does that reflect?
11 A. Well, I am sure that the 10 M refers to 10
12 meters down the length of these channels.
13 And if you go down the column and see
14 where it says, 10, it says R, C and L and then
15 repeating R, C and L, I would assume, and this is a
16 long time ago that I did this, that that means right,
17 center and left in the channel.
18 Q. And then the next column is base, I think
19 offset, OFST?
20 A. That's correct.
21 Q. What does that represent there?
22 A. The instruments that we used at this time
23 recorded everything initially on a very primitive
24 chart recorder type of a device, if you will. We
25 have upgraded equipment since then.
30
1 At that time this was sort of state of the
2 art.
3 These analyses, the baseline tends to
4 drift up and down as the air conditioning cycles on
5 in the laboratory. So when you make the measurement
6 of the next column which is referred to as peak
7 height, you measure where the baseline went to, in
8 other words, how far it was down. It is just a way
9 of correcting for the routine daily cyclical drift.
10 It is a predictable drift that occurs in these
11 instruments.
12 Q. The next column is COR, C O R, average,
13 AVG. I suspect that means corrected average?
14 A. That is correct.
15 Q. What does that reflect?
16 A. I would assume it would be the two peak
17 heights averaged minus the baseline offset of those
18 peaks.
19 Q. The final column, NH4 and then CONC?
20 A. That is ammonia concentration. And it is
21 in the units of micromoler.
22 Q. This would be the same for the remainder
23 of the documents in this attached exhibit?
24 A. Without going through them, I would assume
25 that the only thing that changes are the particular
31
1 analyses that we would be measuring. I see ammonia,
2 I see nitrite, I see what we call is N plus N which
3 is nitrite plus nitrate. And I also see, I see
4 reactive phosphorus.
5 Q. Which one is the one that is reactive
6 phosphorus? Refer to the Bates number.
7 A. Bates 1169986 X and 1169986 Y.
8 Q. Will you be relying on this information to
9 form any of the opinions that you will be expressing
10 at a final hearing in this matter?
11 A. There are literally hundreds of pages of
12 this type of water quality analysis and output. To
13 say that I am going to be relying on any individual
14 sheet or any individual set of that is rather
15 difficult. Rather, this is one series of data in
16 water quality from an area of the Shark River Slough
17 including impacted and control areas that I use to
18 formulate my general feelings of how water quality is
19 in the Shark River Slough.
20 Q. Let's turn to the next document now. We
21 will label it Jones Exhibit 4. It begins with Bates
22 number 1168919.
23 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 4 was marked for
24 identification)
25 BY MR. HYDE:
32
1 Q. Can you identify this document for me?
2 A. No, I can not.
3 Q. You can't identify it at all?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Did you or your staff prepare it, to your
6 knowledge?
7 A. No. I don't know what it is. I don't
8 know where it came from.
9 Q. It is just there?
10 A. Yes.
11 MS. PONZOLI: I am not sure he is even
12 conceding it is among his documents as we sit here,
13 can neither confirm nor deny.
14 MR. HYDE: Enough on that. Let's move on
15 now to the next document, we will label it Jones
16 Exhibit No. 5, that begins with Bates No. 1169966.
17 (Deposition Jones Exhibit 5 was marked for
18 identification)
19 BY MR. HYDE:
20 Q. Can you identify this document?
21 (Pause)
22 A. It is a composite of at least two
23 different documents
24 MS. PONZOLI: I would like the record to
25 reflect, Mr. Hyde, that at least on Dr. Jones' and my
33
1 copies the final pages are of extremely poor quality
2 and illegible.
3 MR. HYDE: That was one of the next
4 questions I was going to ask because that's the way
5 we received them..
6 MS. PONZOLI: From the copier, I don't
7 know.
8 MR. HYDE: We would like to get some more
9 legible copies of that.
10 MS. PONZOLI: Did this set come from
11 Kinko's?
12 MR. HARRIS: Yes.
13 MR. HYDE: Yes, apparently.
14 MS. PONZOLI: We have not had good
15 experiences.
16 THE WITNESS: May I ask a question for a
17 moment?
18 MR. HYDE: Off the record.
19 (Discussion off the record)
20 BY MR. HYDE:
21 Q. Are these your documents?
22 A. Oh, yes.
23 Q. What do they purport to reflect?
24 A. My problem with this particular set of
25 documents is that it has come from at least three
34
1 different folders and it has been stapled together as
2 a document but this is not the way they were in my
3 files.
4 Q. Perhaps you could break it up then.
5 A. I am trying but every time I flip to a new
6 page it seems to look like it is from a different
7 folder. I am up to three now.
8 (Pause)
9 MS. PONZOLI: It may be necessary that you
10 simply identify documents page by page, Dr. Jones.
11 THE WITNESS: I think I can go through a
12 certain number of them before we hit a snag.
13 MS. PONZOLI: Off the record.
14 (Discussion off the record)
15 A. From Bates number 1169966 through 1169985
16 M, that's a set of documents, I am not sure that they
17 were all in the same folder but they were -- they all
18 are pertaining to the same project, and it has to do
19 with a study that I did with Bill Loftus at
20 Everglades National Park pertaining to the reflooding
21 of the southeast Shark River Slough.
22 Q. What was the purpose of this study?
23 A. I am not the person to ask about that. I
24 was doing water quality work along with Bill Loftus
25 who is a fisheries biologist and I was just providing
35
1 some ancillary information.
2 I was going out mostly to gain field
3 experience, to get a feeling for what the Everglades
4 were like. And Mr. Loftus provided me with the
5 opportunity to spend a considerable amount of time in
6 Everglades National Park.
7 Q. The column titled Sample Site is
8 essentially unidentifiable except it is 6A, 6B, et
9 cetera. Is there any converter that would indicate
10 where these sampling sites were actually located?
11 A. Well, yes. I mean, 6A, 23 and 50 are, I
12 should say 6, 23 and 50 are three specific locations
13 that are still being sampled to date out in the Shark
14 River Slough of Everglades National Park.
15 Q. Where is 6A, for example?
16 A. I am going to work backwards, I am sorry.
17 I can tell you where site 50 is. Site 50
18 is a site located along the Tamiami Trail in Shark
19 River Slough, a short hydroperiod marl site.
20 23 is the site in the northeast Shark
21 River Slough in more or less the center of the
22 reflooded area, rewetted area.
23 And that would leave 6 which would be the
24 Shark River Slough site. Where the exact locations
25 of these are, somewhere in my files was a map but it
36
1 is not produced with these documents.
2 Q. Are these sites regularly monitored by the
3 Park Service, for example, or by some other entity?
4 A. The water quality analysis that took
5 place, to my knowledge, to the best of my knowledge,
6 is mine. I am the only person who has done anything
7 there. They are continuing to monitor, I believe.
8 You would have to speak to Mr. Loftus, for fish and
9 invertebrate.
10 Q. These documents all seem to date back to
11 1986. Did you do anything beyond 1986?
12 A. I think I did this for approximately two
13 years. There might be -- they might go through,
14 probably '86, maybe a little '85 in there but there
15 was quite a period of time where I was doing work out
16 there.
17 Q. What analytical methods were employed by
18 you in deriving these figures?
19 A. Essentially the same as discussed in Jones
20 No. 3.
21 Q. Are there any field notes that back up
22 these documents?
23 A. Not in my files.
24 Q. You took us through Bates No. 1169985 M.
25 What is beyond that?
37
1 A. There are six pages of a small study that
2 I did in Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge looking
3 at the effects of bird rookeries.
4 Q. Effects of bird rookeries on what?
5 A. I was looking at total phosphorus in the
6 soil and water, alkaline phosphatase activities and
7 making certain observations on vegetation changes.
8 Q. Let's refer specifically to page N, the
9 first of that series, you have six columns there.
10 Can you identify for me what those columns are?
11 A. Okay, the minus 10 minus 1 edge 50, 100,
12 200 control, that would be the distances from this,
13 what appears to be a stork rookery. And I am not
14 sure whether this was a functional stork rookery or
15 whether it was one that had been abandoned a number
16 of years ago.
17 Q. Where was this located?
18 A. In Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge.
19 Q. Do you have latitude or longitude
20 coordinates or anything else that might make that a
21 little more specific?
22 A. These six pages are all you have here and
23 this is not the complete folder.
24 Q. Do you recall when this was done?
25 A. I can't even be sure that the data sheet
38
1 behind here are from this particular set because they
2 are not reproduced well enough in my version to do
3 it.
4 Q. You are referring to the largely illegible
5 copies beginning with Q?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. Go back to page N. What is the second
8 column?
9 A. I would think that it is alkaline
10 phosphatase, but I don't know. Again, it is out of
11 context.
12 Q. The third column, is that total
13 phosphorus?
14 A. That would be correct.
15 Q. The fourth column?
16 A. Would be the same type of thing as the
17 first column with the ibis rookery which was active
18 at the time.
19 Q. Can you tell me where the ibis rookery was
20 located other than its being in the Refuge?
21 A. No, I can't. I am sorry.
22 Q. Can you tell me what portion of the Refuge
23 it was located in?
24 A. If I am not mistaken, it was located in
25 the central eastern portion. But you have to
39
1 remember, without seeing the map and the coordinates,
2 there are a lot of ibis rookeries and there are a lot
3 of stork rookeries and there are a lot of things in
4 the Refuge.
5 Q. What is that fifth column that is directly
6 below the word ibis?
7 A. I believe that would be alkaline
8 phosphatase activity again.
9 Q. The final column is total phosphorus?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. What is that little note down at the
12 bottom that looks like a 0.25, and then I can't read
13 it, equals .00 then it appears to be an 8.
14 A. Do you mind if I make a real quick
15 calculation? Because then I might be able to tell
16 you.
17 Q. Sure, go ahead.
18 (Pause)
19 A. That would refer to the value in its, or
20 its one decimal point significant figure estimate up
21 in parts per million.
22 Q. Move over to the next page, O. The first
23 two columns are under the word samples. What is that
24 reflecting?
25 A. That column is referring to two
40
1 wavelengths and it is not really -- the samples,
2 since they are all the same, it refers to the
3 wavelength of excitation and wavelength of emission.
4 Q. What is the purpose of having that
5 measurement?
6 A. This is the output that comes across the
7 machine, fluorometer.
8 Q. Does it tell you anything significant?
9 A. It tells me that this is an alkaline
10 phosphatase measurement.
11 Q. The next column is underneath the phrase T
12 equals O.
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. What is that?
15 A. The values -- I think what you are saying,
16 I don't think those are column headers. I think that
17 that is just the word samples written on here.
18 Although --
19 Q. Tell me what that column reflects.
20 A. I am working on it.
21 Okay, this would be the reading from the
22 machine, the scanning spectrofluorometer at water
23 called RFU, relative fluorescence units at time
24 equals zero.
25 Q. And the third column I guess is rookery,
41
1 stork rookery or ibis rookery or I guess the third
2 one would be canal and control. Those are just
3 locations?
4 A. Yes, I believe so.
5 Q. What about the next column underneath what
6 is I guess average?
7 A. Yes, it appears to be the average of the T
8 equals zero values for those, for that column.
9 Q. What is the final column, it looks like
10 second or 2 N difference?
11 A. 2 H, two hour difference.
12 Q. What is that reflecting?
13 A. That the difference in fluorometric
14 reading after a period of two hours.
15 Q. What is the significance of that
16 measurement?
17 A. That is the alkaline phosphatase activity.
18 MR. HYDE: Let's move on to the next
19 document. We will label it Jones Exhibit 6 beginning
20 with Bates No. 1169885.
21 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 6 was marked for
22 identification)
23 MS. PONZOLI: That is a single document,
24 Mr. Hyde, or is it paper clipped to another batch of
25 documents that are stapled?
42
1 MR. HYDE: Paper clipped.
2 BY MR. HYDE:
3 Q. Let's identify the first page, 1169885.
4 The heading is Total Carbon and Nitrogen Analysis.
5 These appear to be reflect tissue samples taken in
6 the Park from plants, would that be fair?
7 MR. NIEGO: Is this going to be No. 6?
8 MR. HYDE: Yes, we already identified it
9 as 6.
10 MR. NIEGO: I am sorry.
11 A. I do not believe that is correct.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. It is, however, possible. I am confused
14 by the word Standards written over in the corner.
15 And again, this document is out of context.
16 Q. To your knowledge was it prepared by your
17 shop?
18 A. Yes, it is. It is definitely output from
19 our total carbon and nitrogen analyzer. I just don't
20 know what the results are. They appear to me to be a
21 series of different weight standards, okay. And
22 whether that is the standard of reference, standard
23 reference material or Atropine as in the top portion
24 of the thing, I can't tell from this particular
25 document.
43
1 Q. Did you prepare this document or was it
2 done by someone else in your shop?
3 A. I am basically the only person that knows
4 how to use this antiquated software package so I am
5 assuming I prepared it.
6 Q. It identifies sample sites 1 through 12.
7 Do those sample sites relate to the next document
8 that it is attached to?
9 A. I don't think so. Sample site is a header
10 column on this particular spreadsheet that exists
11 throughout. It is not something that is changed.
12 Q. Do you know where those sample sites were
13 located?
14 A. The 1 through 12?
15 Q. Right.
16 A. I don't even know that they are sample
17 sites. My feeling from looking at this now, seeing
18 it in this context and not in the context in which I
19 would normally view it, is that this is 12 standards
20 of a different weight class.
21 Q. Do you know what kind of vegetation was
22 being analyzed?
23 A. I am not even sure it was vegetation, this
24 thing. This spreadsheet is titled Total Carbon and
25 Nitrogen Analysis and whenever we were running on
44
1 this particular projects it would have the ENP dash
2 tissue samples and that doesn't necessarily mean that
3 that is what was being run.
4 Q. Do you recall what analytical methods were
5 being employed by you when you were preparing this
6 document?
7 A. This is what is referred to as a total
8 carbon and nitrogen analyzer. It is a high
9 temperature instrument manufactured by Carlo-Erba.
10 Yes, I am very familiar, we still operate this
11 instrument.
12 Q. What is the purpose, what does it
13 demonstrate it for you?
14 A. You can measure the quantity of nitrogen
15 and carbon in tissues or soils or liquids or anything
16 else.
17 Q. When you say tissues, are you referring to
18 both plant and animal tissues?
19 A. Yes, that is correct.
20 Q. But you don't know from reading this
21 whether in this is plant or animal?
22 A. I would take a pretty good guess that it
23 looks like plant tissue. It would be a pretty sick
24 animal.
25 Q. I am not a scientist, why do you say that?
45
1 A. Just looking at the ratio of carbon to
2 nitrogen.
3 Q. The next document is Bates number 1169877
4 through 884. Is this pretty much along the same
5 lines as the one you just described?
6 A. It is the same type of machine output
7 along with total phosphorus analysis on some samples
8 collected in Everglades National Park by I believe it
9 is John Sternberg. I am not sure if that's correct.
10 It has been a long time.
11 Q. Did you do the analysis of these samples?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. Do you know for what purpose the samples
14 were collected?
15 A. I believe they were collected in
16 preparation of material for the federal litigation.
17 Q. For what purpose, then? In other words,
18 why were you interested in having this kind of
19 information?
20 A. We were interested in looking at the
21 levels of phosphorus and nitrogen and carbon in the
22 particular tissues of the leaves of these plants at
23 various places in Everglades National Park.
24 Q. What if anything did this information
25 reveal to you?
46
1 A. If I am not mistaken we had a plan and
2 presented Mr. Sternberg with an area that we wanted
3 plants collected along a transect south of I believe
4 S-12C in Everglades National Park. That is not what
5 he did. And so the results of this particular survey
6 were not very enlightening, and I have not spent a
7 whole lot of time dealing with it since then.
8 MR. HYDE: Let's move on to the next
9 document. We are making some progress. It begins
10 with Bates number 1192685. There is also a DRJ
11 number on it.
12 MS. PONZOLI: That means it is from his
13 most recent production, is that what you are saying?
14 MR. HARRIS: Yes.
15 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 7 was marked for
16 identification)
17 BY MR. HYDE:
18 Q. Can you identify what has been labeled as
19 Jones Exhibit No. 7?
20 A. The first portion of this starting with
21 1192685 going through 1192705 look to be values of
22 phosphorus in the soil and some values for the water
23 column. I see on 1192683 the word Maltby sites, and
24 I am assuming that that means that these first two
25 stapled documents have to do with analysis that was
47
1 done for Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge when
2 Dr. Ed Maltby collected some samples.
3 Q. So is it Dr. Maltby who collected these
4 samples?
5 A. I don't know who -- I should have --
6 Maltby's expedition to the Everglades. I don't know
7 who collected the samples.
8 Q. Do you know what the sampling locations
9 were?
10 A. I do not.
11 Q. What about the analytical methods being
12 employed?
13 A. The analytical methods were from our
14 laboratory. These are results of analyses from our
15 laboratory.
16 Q. What analytical methods did you employ
17 here in deriving these phosphorus concentrations?
18 A. Well, the phosphorus concentration where
19 it says sediment in micrograms per grams is simply a
20 total phosphorus analysis of sediment.
21 Q. Was it run on a particular machine?
22 A. We do not have a machine, it is referred
23 to as a total phosphorus analyzer.
24 Q. Do you know if there are any field notes
25 that back up this apparently summary format?
48
1 A. I do not.
2 Q. If you could turn to Bates page 1192706,
3 the date collected appears to indicate the month and
4 day but not the year. The other documents say 1993.
5 Were these likewise collected in 1993?
6 A. I assume, now that I look at this, I
7 believe that the first two pages which have 1192683
8 and 1192684, and then we jump to 1192709, 10, 2706
9 and 5, I think somebody couldn't count, that these
10 are different sets of documents. I mean, I don't
11 believe -- I believe the first two pages are the
12 Maltby data.
13 MS. PONZOLI: Which are, which are the
14 first --
15 THE WITNESS: The first to two pages are
16 1192683 and 1192684.
17 A. And the 1192709 and 2710 would appear to
18 be results from the League's entry, I think.
19 Q. So this would be replicate data?
20 A. No. They don't even -- they weren't even
21 in the same file folder.
22 Q. Going back to my original question, do you
23 know what date these were collected, the last two
24 pages, 1192706 and 705, excuse me, what year?
25 A. It is 2-7 now so it isn't this year. I am
49
1 assuming it was last year.
2 MR. HYDE: Let's move on now to the next
3 document, we will label it Jones Exhibit No. 8. It
4 begins with 1192679.
5 MS. PONZOLI: Mr. Hyde, I would like the
6 record to reflect that we produced I don't know how
7 many years of Dr. Jones' research and you selected
8 what you wanted from, I don't know -- is it up to ten
9 years of research, Dr. Jones -- you selected what you
10 wanted, you put them back together in the manner in
11 which you wanted, and there is some inference that he
12 can't identify some isolated page from ten years of
13 research. I want it to be clear, I think that is
14 totally unfair.
15 MR. HYDE: Suzan, I think you are reading
16 something into the question that doesn't exist. I am
17 just trying to identify documents.
18 I told you at the beginning of this
19 deposition that I tried to have them arranged in a
20 logical fashion. As you can see here these deal
21 with, the ones we went through just deal with
22 Loxahatchee total phosphorus sediment. And that's
23 what their common thread is and that's why they were
24 grouped together.
25 There has been no inference to try to
50
1 suggest anything about them other than an attempt to
2 identify what they are.
3 If they had been provided to us in some
4 other meaningful fashion with some backup notes we
5 wouldn't even be going through this exercise.
6 MS. PONZOLI: They were provided to you in
7 a very meaningful fashion. You chose them in
8 whatever manner you wished. You asked for very, very
9 broad categories of production and we in good faith
10 complied by offering you virtually everything. And
11 so you know, if you have in your collection and in
12 your duplicating somehow rearranged the universe,
13 that is a problem you have created of your own doing.
14 MR. HYDE: There is no point in being
15 belligerent, there is nothing to be belligerent
16 about. All I am trying to do is identify documents.
17 MS. PONZOLI: And we are trying to help
18 you.
19 MR. HYDE: The next document, Jones
20 Exhibit No. 8, Bates number 1192679, reflects
21 apparently Loxahatchee total phosphorus surface
22 water.
23 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 8 was marked for
24 identification)
25 BY MR. HYDE:
51
1 Q. I just have a few questions about this
2 particular document. It says that it is Loxahatchee
3 total phosphorus surface water yet up in the upper
4 right-hand corner there are the initials EAA. Are
5 these samples from the Refuge or are they from the
6 EAA, to your knowledge?
7 A. I believe this is mislabeled, in other
8 words, we just put this stuff on the same
9 spreadsheet. I believe these are the results from
10 our entry into, I should say the United States entry
11 into the Everglades Agricultural Area and the samples
12 that we collected there.
13 Q. What analytical methods did you employ
14 here?
15 A. This is again a total phosphorus analysis
16 of water.
17 Q. Do you have any backup field notes for
18 this particular bit of information?
19 A. Yes. And they have been provided.
20 Q. Were these samples all actually collected
21 on the same date?
22 A. No. That is again a mistake. The field
23 notes with the sample bottle designation will
24 indicate what date they were actually sampled on. I
25 did not prepare this particular table and the
52
1 technician who did prepare this table for me is used
2 to having a single date for the samples being
3 collected. But again, they are reflected in the
4 notes.
5 MR. HYDE: Let's move on now to the next
6 document. We will label it Jones Exhibit 9. It
7 begins with Bates number 1192622.
8 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 9 was marked for
9 identification)
10 BY MR. HYDE:
11 Q. Can you identify this series of documents
12 for me?
13 (Pause)
14 A. It would look like, I am not sure without
15 going through every single sheet, but it appears to
16 me these are the results from the four rainfall
17 collectors in Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge
18 which we were monitoring for total phosphorus
19 concentration, the rain water collectors. It is
20 actually a wet collector and a dry collector.
21 Q. Do you know where this is located?
22 A. Where these collectors are?
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. Yes, I have been there. Again, I can not
25 exactly pinpoint them on a map without the
53
1 accompanying chart. The only one that I am sure of
2 is the collector that is located adjacent to the
3 maintenance building at the Refuge headquarters.
4 Q. Which one is that?
5 A. I believe that's L-1, but I could be
6 mistaken on which designation is here.
7 Q. Again, this was a total phosphorus
8 analyses?
9 A. These are total phosphorus analyses. In
10 the back you also have the field notes.
11 Q. Are these all of the field notes for these
12 particular tables?
13 A. These are all the field notes for these
14 particular tables, to my knowledge, and some of the
15 other stuff. These are some of the field notes that
16 you were questioning prior.
17 Q. In the previous document?
18 A. Well, the Loxahatchee documents, whenever,
19 whoever collected, maybe the Maltby note, I just
20 notice there is some other information in here that
21 is not from the rainfall collectors.
22 MR. HYDE: Let's move on to the next
23 document, it is a single page document, Bates number
24 1169774.
25 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 10 was marked
54
1 for identification)
2 BY MR. HYDE:
3 Q. What is this?
4 A. This is a compilation of our transect
5 study data for Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge.
6 This is a main transect running across the Refuge
7 just north of S-6 due east.
8 Q. So this is the east-west transect?
9 A. This is the east west transect.
10 Q. The first column indicates the stations
11 along that transect?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. Are those stations otherwise identified in
14 some document that has been provided to us or is
15 otherwise generally available?
16 A. Graphically, and you have the field notes
17 with the Loran coordinates.
18 Q. The second column, kilometers, is that
19 what that reflects, kilometers from the S-6
20 structures?
21 A. Kilometers from the -- I have to go back
22 because I don't know whether it is kilometers from
23 the levee or kilometers from the canal on the
24 interior of Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge. I
25 am assuming the first one being about, what is that,
55
1 10 meters that that would be in the middle of the
2 canal and they probably didn't get out there to get a
3 sample.
4 Q. What is the third column?
5 A. Total phosphorus.
6 Q. Total phosphorus of the soils or the water
7 column?
8 A. I am assuming the soils, looking at the
9 numbers.
10 Q. The fourth column --
11 A. Alkaline phosphatase.
12 Q. And then it just begins again, station,
13 kilometers, total phosphorus, alkaline phosphatase?
14 A. That's correct.
15 MR. HYDE: My copy was none too good for
16 this last column of alkaline phosphatase. We don't
17 have a separate designation so maybe if we could find
18 that document we would like to get that information,
19 just noting that for the record.
20 MS. PONZOLI: I guess I would suggest that
21 when you come and look for the others, you look for
22 that one.
23 MR. HYDE: Yes, okay. That is a
24 possibility.
25 BY MR. HYDE:
56
1 Q. Are there any field notes that back up
2 this document?
3 A. Yes, and you should have them.
4 Q. Would they be identified in any way as
5 being connected with this document?
6 A. That's a question -- I think so. I would
7 be able to pick out which set of fields notes go with
8 it. I am not sure you all would. It should be
9 relatively easy for you to figure out.
10 MR. HYDE: Moving to the next one, Jones
11 No. 11.
12 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 11 was marked
13 for identification)
14 BY MR. HYDE:
15 Q. Can you identify this document?
16 A. 1169786?
17 Q. That's correct.
18 (Pause)
19 A. It is total phosphorus data from
20 Loxahatchee collected on October 17, 1990, and it
21 would appear to represent stations 23 through 35 and
22 the canal east and the canal west and S-333.
23 Q. Whose stations are these, yours?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And in the first column is just the number
57
1 of the sample?
2 A. The first column is just a number that is
3 assigned by -- the column of data or the line of data.
4 Q. The third column, what does that reflect?
5 A. DIL?
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. That stands for dilution. There was none.
8 Q. The fourth, weight?
9 A. Weight.
10 Q. The fifth, height, what does that reflect?
11 A. This is the new version of a software
12 program that actually instead of us having to take a
13 ruler and physically measure the height of the peak,
14 the software program writes that down and that's what
15 that would represent.
16 Q. Do you recall the name of the software
17 program?
18 A. It is Softpak Plus.
19 Q. The next column, calcium value, is that?
20 A. Calculated value.
21 Q. Calculated value. The final column, E F?
22 A. Yes, E F is an error flag, but that
23 doesn't really represent what is in that column
24 because it should be just F for flags, something that
25 would identify what those particular things would be.
58
1 Q. I am not sure how to describe these but
2 these little marks here?
3 A. Summation marks?
4 Q. Summation marks, what does that stand for?
5 A. I am assuming again, not sitting here and
6 running my calculator, I am assuming that what
7 happened here is that those four values that are
8 within that summation mark have been averaged to
9 represent that total phosphorus value.
10 Q. Did you prepare this document?
11 A. No, I did not.
12 Q. Do you know by whom it was prepared?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. Who that is?
15 A. My chief chemist.
16 Q. Who is that?
17 A. Mr. Pete Lorenzo.
18 Q. Do you know what sampling procedures were
19 employed?
20 A. Sampling procedures?
21 Q. Yes.
22 A. Field sampling procedures?
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. I would have done that, so, yes.
25 Q. What would you have done?
59
1 A. I would have collected water samples under
2 our normal SOP for field.
3 Q. And your analytical methods?
4 A. This would have been again the digestion
5 and analysis for total phosphorus on the analyzer.
6 MR. HYDE: Moving on to the next document,
7 this would be Jones No. 12, Bates number 1169985 T.
8 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 12 was marked
9 for identification)
10 BY MR. HYDE:
11 Q. This appears to be somewhat similar to the
12 previous document so I won't go over the same series
13 of questions. But what type of data is being derived
14 here?
15 A. These are samples from Loxahatchee. It
16 would appear that they belong to the -- I don't
17 remember which exhibit. I will go back.
18 (Pause)
19 A. They appear to belong with Jones 5. And
20 they represent nitrate plus nitrite, nitrite,
21 ammonium and phosphate collected on those dates.
22 Q. Can you describe for me the units of
23 measurement in the last two columns, the calculated
24 value and E F column as well?
25 A. Do you mind if I make a calculation again?
60
1 Q. Please, go ahead.
2 (Pause)
3 A. I believe that that's, that represents
4 that drift correction or blank correction, if you
5 will, that was done on the data.
6 Q. Could you explain that in layman's terms
7 for me?
8 A. Sometimes the machine, when you are
9 looking at a screen, if you will, of data, you will
10 see that there is a jump in the baseline, it will
11 just make a 90 degree little jump. And the software
12 isn't sophisticated enough to handle that. So we
13 could go into it, a spreadsheet program and take care
14 of that type of data. But sometimes we find it is
15 easier to go in and make those corrections by hand
16 rather than taking the data, putting it into an ASCII
17 file, loading it into another program and running it
18 off.
19 That's what it would appear from this
20 particular data set. I say that because I see, you
21 have a set a number of times where the blank has got
22 a value of -- a relatively high value.
23 Q. What are the units in the last column,
24 under E F where it says, it looks like .08 on station
25 11?
61
1 A. Those would probably be micromoler.
2 Q. Micromoler, okay.
3 What analytical methods were employed for
4 in first one, the channel name N plus N?
5 A. I need to ask you, when you refer to
6 analytical method, what are you referring to at that
7 point? I could say a nitrite and nitrate analysis,
8 and that's the simple title of that.
9 Q. That's getting part of the way there. I
10 wanted to know if there is some specific methodology
11 being employed in making that derivation.
12 A. No, this is a standard method.
13 Q. Would that be the same for the next
14 document, nitrite?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. And for all of these documents?
17 A. For ammonia, for phosphate, yes, that's
18 correct.
19 MR. HYDE: Let's shift gears a little bit
20 here. The next number will be Jones Exhibit 13, it
21 is Bates number 1192637 and the top of the first page
22 is called Miccosukee Water Quality Survey.
23 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 13 marked was
24 marked for identification)
25 BY MR. HYDE:
62
1 Q. Can you identify this document for me, Dr.
2 Jones?
3 A. Yes. These are the results of water
4 quality data that we have been collecting for the
5 Miccosukee tribe of Indians under the dates included
6 here, October 24, 1991 through September 1993.
7 Q. Who collected this data?
8 A. I did the first batch. I am not sure
9 whether I did the second batch or not. But since
10 then technicians, people in my laboratory have been
11 going out and collecting it with the aid of the
12 Miccosukees.
13 Q. The Miccosukees collected some of this as
14 well?
15 A. No, they have not collected any of the
16 samples. They have taken us to the various locations
17 on their property.
18 Q. Are there any field notes to back up this
19 information?
20 A. There is a field notebook, a logbook that
21 is kept indicating various things that are now
22 recorded in this, in these data sets, such as time,
23 temperature, pH and DO, things that we don't, don't
24 come up with them in the machine in the laboratory.
25 Q. Was that field notebook provided to us?
63
1 A. I don't believe so.
2 Q. Would that be readily accessible?
3 A. It might be in Canada. There was one
4 technician who did this has since moved to Canada.
5 And considering all of the data that would be in that
6 notebook is reflected in these tables, we are not
7 talking about detailed field notes of what kind of
8 bird were flying overhead.
9 Q. So what additional information would have
10 been reflected in the field notes different from
11 this?
12 A. None.
13 MR. HYDE: Let's move on to the next
14 document, beginning with Bates number 1192122, this
15 will be Jones Exhibit 14.
16 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 14 was marked
17 for identification)
18 BY MR. HYDE:
19 Q. Can you identify this document?
20 A. This is a pile of documents, now all
21 stapled together, which there are seven different
22 pieces of, seven different documents contained in
23 this Jones 14.
24 Q. This composite document reflects a certain
25 number of samples that were taken at various
64
1 locations. First of all, do you know who was
2 responsible for taking these samples?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Who, you?
5 A. You have seven different things here.
6 MS. PONZOLI: I am confused. Are you
7 talking about only the first sampling effort? These
8 are really different projects, it would appear, Mr.
9 Hyde, if you take a look at what you have together,
10 the final one being an abstract on ultratrace level
11 mercury in the Everglades ecosystem.
12 Q. Let's go then to Bates No. 1192125.
13 A. 125?
14 Q. Yes. I think you have it there.
15 A. These are analyses of the different
16 organic mercury species in five samples from canals
17 throughout the EPA.
18 Q. Can you be more specific and identify
19 where these samples were taken from the canals?
20 A. I can not. I have that data, that
21 information, somewhere in my production was that
22 information.
23 Q. Where would it be referred to, if you can
24 recall? I am not asking you to dig out the document
25 but what kind of document would it be reflected in?
65
1 A. It would be in the mercury study, the EPA
2 Everglades National Park mercury study.
3 Q. So someone could look at 44 F and
4 determine where that sample was taken?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. That's all I have on that document.
7 MR. HYDE: We will mark as Jones Exhibit
8 15, Bates number 1169753.
9 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 15 was marked
10 for identification)
11 BY MR. HYDE:
12 Q. Can you identify this first document?
13 A. The first page?
14 Q. Yes.
15 A. It appears to be a xerox of the total
16 phosphorus and alkaline phosphatase activities in
17 Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge.
18 Q. Is this reflecting a specific location?
19 A. Yes, this would be the, that transect that
20 I referred to earlier. I don't know, do you want me
21 to dig through the exhibits?
22 Q. No, that is not necessary.
23 What, there appear to be two lines here,
24 one dominated by triangles connected and the second
25 dominated by I guess circles connected.
66
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What are those two respective lines?
3 A. Total phosphorus being the inverse
4 triangles, and -- I am sorry, I take that back,
5 alkaline phosphatase being the inverse triangles and
6 total phosphorus being the solid circles.
7 Q. Did you prepare this document?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. For what purpose did you prepare it?
10 A. For demonstrating the effects and the
11 distribution of phosphorus in Loxahatchee.
12 Q. When you did your alkaline phosphatase
13 measurements, what kind of methodology did you
14 employ?
15 A. Fairly standard technique, although we
16 have modified it for working in the Everglades.
17 We use a fluorescent technique using
18 3-orthomethylfluoroscene, and it has been around
19 since the 1970s, I believe, sometime mid-seventies.
20 Q. How has it been modified to work in the
21 Everglades?
22 A. Most of the areas where alkaline
23 phosphatase is measured, the activities are fairly
24 consistent from one sample to another. But because
25 of the pollution in the Everglades we have a
67
1 tremendous range of activities. So we had to make a
2 method, we had to make the method, have a wider range
3 than was utilized in the earlier work.
4 Q. Let's move on to the next document, Bates
5 number 1169762. What does this document purport to
6 reflect?
7 A. This is a very old version of I believe
8 the same thing. I can't really read the axes very
9 well but it looks like essentially the same thing for
10 Water Conservation Area 2A done with a different
11 plotting program.
12 Q. Is this something you prepared?
13 A. Yes, it is.
14 Q. Does this reflect measurements taken along
15 a given transect or given area?
16 A. Yes, it does.
17 Q. Can you identify this transect or area for
18 me?
19 A. This transect would have been south of
20 S-10C, if I am not mistaken.
21 Q. So these are measurements in terms of
22 kilometers due south of that?
23 A. The distance in kilometers on here are
24 probably rough estimates of those distances given the
25 very early nature of this particular figure.
68
1 Q. Let's move on to the next document, Bates
2 number 1169750. Is that a similar exercise there?
3 A. Yes. And this is just representing those
4 for Everglades National Park, transect south of
5 S-12C.
6 Q. The left-hand column on the total
7 phosphorus, is that reflecting soil phosphorus?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. I would like to skip over now a few pages
10 to Bates number 1169781. It looks like this
11 (indicating).
12 What is this document?
13 A. It would appear to be the Everglades
14 National Park transect south of S-12C on 6 August
15 1990.
16 Q. What kind of information is reflected in
17 this document?
18 A. Station numbers, distance I am assuming
19 from the structure, S-12C, I know it is from the
20 structure S-12C, total phosphorus in open water
21 areas, TP(E), Eleocharis, open water, and TP(S) from
22 sawgrass areas, phosphatase, alkaline phosphatase and
23 total phosphorus in the water, and then on the bottom
24 orthophosphate in the water.
25 Q. From the same stations?
69
1 A. That's correct.
2 MR. HYDE: I would like to move on now to
3 a document that begins with a letter dated November
4 19, 1993.
5 MS. PONZOLI: Are we skipping over these
6 South Florida Water Management?
7 MR. HYDE: Yes.
8 MS. PONZOLI: Are we going to skip them
9 permanently?
10 MR. HYDE: Yes, I'm skipping over them.
11 Let's identify this letter dated November
12 19, 1993 as a separate exhibit number, No. 16.
13 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 16 was marked
14 for identification)
15 BY MR. HYDE:
16 Q. Dr. Jones, I would like you to turn to the
17 third page of Exhibit No. 16. Can you identify what
18 that third page reflects?
19 MS. PONZOLI: You should read this first.
20 Q. Take your time if you have to read
21 something.
22 MR. HYDE: Off the record.
23 (Discussion off the record)
24 A. This appears to be the whole document, the
25 whole document here appears to be a series of data
70
1 turned over by Thomas Watts-Fitzgerald from the US
2 Attorney's Office, and some of that I can identify
3 and some of it I don't really recognize without going
4 back to notes.
5 Q. Can you tell me first what you can
6 identify?
7 A. I don't see any Bates stamps on any of
8 this.
9 (Pause)
10 MS. PONZOLI: There is a fax number on
11 some of them, Dr. Jones, it would say 8 out of 11 but
12 then that disappears.
13 A. I can recognize the last seven pages
14 easily.
15 MS. PONZOLI: But they are not numbered in
16 the same way, are they?
17 Q. How are they numbered at the bottom of the
18 page?
19 A. I don't have -- it looks likes maybe a 3,
20 4, 5, no number, 7, 6.
21 MS. PONZOLI: They would appear to be 9 of
22 11, 10 of 11 and 11 of 11 if you want to hand label
23 them because the preceding one is 8 of 11.
24 Q. Look at the top of the page.
25 A. 5 of 11, starting with 5, 5, 6, 7, 8 of
71
1 11, no number, 10 of 11, and no number.
2 Q. So you recognize those documents?
3 A. Yes, I do.
4 MS. PONZOLI: Starting with which one?
5 THE WITNESS: Labeled 5 of 11 at the top,
6 Earl Blank, et al.
7 Q. So the page that is prior to 5 of 11,
8 Everglades Park Samples, Total Phosphorus, Sediment
9 Samples, you don't recognize those?
10 A. I am not sure what those are.
11 Those may be results from my analysis of
12 the splits taken or the samples taken when the
13 League's entry was taking place in the Park but I
14 would have to go back and look at it and try and find
15 out what the station numbers are and that means going
16 into all your experts' data.
17 Q. So these stations for sample numbers here
18 reflect our stations?
19 A. Yes, they must be.
20 Q. Let's move now to the next page which you
21 do recognize.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What does that document reflect?
24 A. This is total phosphorus in the water
25 column from the stations in Loxahatchee National
72
1 Wildlife Refuge that are being monitored for the
2 background number.
3 Q. Which stations are these?
4 A. There are 16 stations in the Refuge and so
5 whenever you hear these 16 stations, I am assuming
6 that 3 would refer to station 3.
7 Q. Let's move to page 6 of 11, Loxahatchee
8 Total Phosphorus Rain Water?
9 A. Again additional rainfall analysis from
10 the four collectors.
11 Q. And you are not precisely sure where those
12 rainfall collectors are located other than perhaps
13 the one at headquarters?
14 A. I am precisely aware of them when I have a
15 map showing me where the stations are. I mean, I can
16 not -- it is like, I am not precisely aware of
17 Peoria, Illinois even though I grew up there. I
18 don't want you to think I don't know where they are
19 at.
20 Q. The third line for the L-7, is that L-7,
21 dry?
22 A. L-7, yes.
23 Q. Concentration in parts per billion, it
24 says less than 100,000.
25 A. It says greater than.
73
1 Q. Greater than 100,000, excuse me. What
2 does that mean there?
3 A. First of all, I take it back, it is not
4 L-7 but 1-7.
5 And that means that the concentration of
6 total phosphorus in that particular collector was
7 greater than 100,000 parts per billion and therefore
8 we did not make any further dilutions to try and
9 analyze it from that.
10 Q. Why was it so great?
11 A. Generally a bird did something naughty in
12 it or frogs decided to put eggs or a number of other
13 things.
14 Q. So you basically throw out all of those
15 samplers that have those really high levels of
16 phosphorus?
17 A. If you go and compare the field notes
18 taken, they would indicate, you know, not only this
19 analysis shows us that we should throw them out but
20 also the field notes.
21 Q. Would that be true for the following page,
22 7 of 11?
23 A. That is correct.
24 Q. The next page, 8 of 11, what is this total
25 phosphorus of in the Refuge?
74
1 A. I am assuming that this is again water
2 samples collected at the 16 stations.
3 Q. Similarly for page -- it is not numbered
4 but between 8 of 11 and 10 of 11 so I guess we can
5 presume it is 9 of 11.
6 A. 7 at the bottom?
7 Q. Page 7 at the bottom, yes, again, those
8 stations that have the very high concentrations would
9 just effectively be disregarded?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. Page 10 of 11, again that is reflecting
12 water concentration total phosphorus?
13 A. That's correct.
14 MR. HYDE: The next document with a
15 transmittal letter dated January 10, 1994, we will
16 label that Jones No. 17.
17 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 17 was marked
18 for identification)
19 BY MR. HYDE:
20 Q. Let me back up a moment to Jones No. 16.
21 Did you provide us the field notes for these various
22 sampling exercises?
23 A. I believe we have already identified them
24 in one of the prior exhibits.
25 Q. Those would be the same ones, then?
75
1 A. Yes, for the, again, remember, in Jones
2 16, some of this is samples that I collected and then
3 the rest of them are samples that the Loxahatchee
4 National Wildlife Refuge staff collected.
5 Q. Okay.
6 Just a quick question on Jones No. 17, the
7 second page of that. This is referring to
8 Loxahatchee total phosphorus and these are the
9 various sampling stations for the Loxahatchee?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. Why are these, why is this final column
12 checked like it is, do you have any idea?
13 A. No, I don't. I don't know that those are
14 check marks or not. I don't know.
15 MR. HYDE: Then the next document, Jones
16 No. 18, is the letter dated September 3, 1993.
17 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 18 was marked
18 for identification)
19 BY MR. HYDE:
20 Q. Turning now to the second and third pages,
21 Everglades Park Samples, Total Phosphorus, what is
22 this reflecting here?
23 A. I believe it is described in the letter
24 from Mr. Watts-Fitzgerald. It would appear to be
25 samples during the League's entry and access to
76
1 Everglades National Park.
2 Q. So the sample numbers would coordinate
3 with the samples that were taken by the League?
4 A. I would assume under this thing. I mean,
5 this data is data that I did not provide. I provided
6 it to the US Attorney's Office.
7 MR. HYDE: Why don't we take about a five
8 minute break here.
9 (Thereupon, a brief recess was taken,
10 after which the following proceedings
11 were had)
12 MR. HYDE: Back on the record.
13 BY MR. HYDE:
14 Q. Dr. Jones, I would like you to refer now
15 to a composite document, Jones No. 19, and it is
16 Bates numbers 1169903 through 1169965 so it is about
17 62 pages.
18 (Jones Deposition Exhibit 19 was marked
19 for identification)
20 Q. Our analysis of this document indicates it
21 appears to relate to vegetative metabolism. Would
22 that be a fair characterization of it?
23 A. It can't be.
24 Q. Let me start over again. These documents
25 were all grouped together when they were given to us,
77
1 and that's why we assigned them these consecutive
2 Bates numbers. Do they relate to the same thing?
3 A. Zipping on through them --
4 MS. PONZOLI: We accept at face value your
5 representation that they were presented that way
6 without knowing for a fact that that is true, Mr.
7 Hyde.
8 And I guess I do want to put on the
9 record, I am not agreeing to your composite exhibits.
10 I simply are letting you put things together the way
11 you want and he is identifying whatever he identifies
12 in the way he does. But when he has seven different
13 documents within a single document, I probably would
14 argue you don't really have a composite anymore.
15 MR. HYDE: In this case we have to deal
16 with a little bit of faith. This is the way the
17 documents were provided to me and it is the way I was
18 told they are grouped together. I am just trying to
19 figure out --
20 MS. PONZOLI: I am not trying to give you
21 a hard time. This is a little unusual and I am
22 trying to work with you.
23 MR. HYDE: I am just trying to expedite it
24 here. It looks like there is a lot of information
25 included in this stuff and I am just trying to figure
78
1 out --
2 MS. PONZOLI: Can we stipulate to that?
3 MR. HYDE: -- in a simple direct
4 encompassing way what it is so we can move on to the
5 next general set of information.
6 A. This would have been produced with an
7 earlier exhibit. This is the results of the data
8 from the Bill Loftus study. And it is microbial
9 metabolism or respiration, not plant.
10 Q. Was this document or this information
11 prepared by Mr. Loftus?
12 A. No. It was prepared by myself.
13 Q. For what purpose did you pull this
14 together?
15 A. Again, to examine some of the different
16 changes that were occurring when the northeast Shark
17 River Slough was being wetted up by the experimental
18 water delivery program.
19 Q. What kind of changes were you looking to?
20 A. Microbial changes.
21 Q. Can you be more specific? When you say
22 microbial changes, what were you measuring?
23 A. I measured the nutrients. I measured what
24 is a term called heterotrophic activity which is a
25 measurement of microbial metabolism. I looked at
79
1 primary productivity in the water column. And I
2 looked at dissolved organic carbon. I think that's
3 about it.
4 Q. Why did you look at dissolved organic
5 carbon?
6 A. Why did I look at dissolved organic
7 carbon?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. It is an important compound in this -- it
11 is an important compartment in the carbon cycle and
12 that is another one of my interests in the Shark
13 River Slough.
14 Q. What does it show you when you ascertain
15 those values? What do you learn from that?
16 A. The pool size of this food source.
17 Q. Could you put that in more layman terms?
18 A. You really want to know whether the
19 grocery for is full or whether it is empty before you
20 go shopping.
21 Q. So that is why you look for the carbon
22 value?
23 A. The dissolved organic carbon is a food
24 source for certain microorganisms, some components of
25 it and it just gives us an idea of how big that
80
1 particular pool is.
2 Q. You said you were looking for the primary
3 productivity?
4 A. We looked at primary productivity in the
5 water column.
6 Q. What do you mean by primary productivity?
7 A. Production by plants in the water column,
8 algae in particular.
9 I also see a document in here that has
10 nothing to do with this at all.
11 Q. I would like you to turn to the graph at
12 the beginning, Bates number 1169904, it is a foldout
13 page. Just take me through what these various graphs
14 depict, beginning at the top of the first page, the
15 first graph is next to the identification PRO.
16 A. Protein.
17 Q. Protein, okay.
18 A. It is the utilization of protein by the
19 microbial community in the water column.
20 Q. What is this graph showing you?
21 A. That it changes with time.
22 Q. What do the different lines represent,
23 then?
24 A. Down at the bottom you will see they
25 represent station 6, 23 and 50, those locations.
81
1 Unfortunately they were in color.
2 Q. At the top of the page?
3 A. At the bottom of the page is the
4 reference, right here (indicating).
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. And given the original of this, they would
7 have been in color. And then I would be able to say
8 which was which.
9 Q. Then the second graph, that reflects what?
10 A. Glucose utilization.
11 Q. The third, TDR?
12 A. Tritiated thymidine incorporation.
13 Q. No wonder it is an acronym.
14 A. Measurement of microbial productivity, if
15 you will.
16 Q. The next graph is not very clear in mine.
17 A. The axis in micrograms of carbon per meter
18 squared per hour so that would have to be primary
19 productivity.
20 Q. Then the final graph?
21 A. Chlorophyll A.
22 Q. Why would you be looking at chlorophyll A?
23 A. It is an indication of how many or how
24 much chlorophyll is present in the water column and
25 it has to correlate or it should correlate with
82
1 primary productivity.
2 Q. Were these tests done at a specific area?
3 A. They were done in three specific areas. I
4 believe we already went into what the stations 6, 23
5 and 50 were.
6 Q. Let me ask you, at the bottom of the page
7 where it says 6, 23 and 50, do these different lines
8 correspond to these different stations?
9 A. Yes, they do.
10 Q. It is real hard for me to tell which
11 refers to which, which of these lines up here because
12 at least where it is 6, 23 and 50, they all look the
13 same.
14 A. They do, don't they.
15 Q. So how do you relate those --
16 MS. PONZOLI: They were in color, Mr.
17 Hyde.
18 A. They were in color.
19 MS. PONZOLI: They were three different
20 colors.
21 Q. The next page, Bates number 1169905, at
22 the top it appears to be measuring phosphorus, is
23 that correct?
24 A. That's correct.
25 Q. And then the next one is --
83
1 A. Nitrate.
2 Q. Nitrate. And the next one is nitrite?
3 A. No, ammonia.
4 Q. Skip on over to Bates number 1169908, it
5 looks like this.
6 A. I have it.
7 Q. What is this document intended to reflect?
8 A. I haven't looked at this stuff since 1986.
9 I am assuming these are my little laboratory notes
10 telling me sample size, when I started and stopped
11 the reaction, how long it went, various readings on
12 the spectrophotometer.
13 Q. Would that be the same for the following
14 documents through basically Bates number 1169914?
15 A. Yes. They are all something to do with
16 the results and sort of the following pages.
17 Q. Move on now to Bates number 1169920. It
18 looks like this. What is this document reflecting?
19 A. This is the results of those previous
20 sheets of paper which, that some of the those
21 numbers, the times and all of the stuff put into the
22 various spreadsheets that I used to make the final
23 calculations of these various values that were
24 reflected in the graphs.
25 Q. Again we have the same station numbers, 6,
84
1 23 and 50?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. Sample size, what is that referring to?
4 A. I would assume that that means I filtered
5 540 milliliters of water to make the extraction
6 there.
7