DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, STATE OF FLORIDA
SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE OF )
FLORIDA, a Florida Agricultural )
Cooperative Marketing Association, ) CASE NOS. 92-3038
ROTH FARMS, INC., and ) 92-3039
WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC., ) 92-3040
)
and )
)
FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.; )
UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; )
)
and )________________________
)
FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE ) DEPOSITION
ASSOCIATION, LEWIS POPE FARMS, )
W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., ) OF
and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., )
)DR. RICHARD T. Di GIULIO
Petitioners, )________________________
)
vs. )
)
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
DISTRICT, an Agency of the State )
of Florida, )
)
Respondent, )
)
and )
)
MICCOSUKEE TRIBE OF INDIANS OF )
FLORIDA, the UNITED STATES OF )
AMERICA, and FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF )
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, The )
FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION, The )
FLORIDA AUDUBON SOCIETY, and The )
SIERRA CLUB, )
Intervenors. )
___________________________________)
AT DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA
APRIL 1, 1994
REPORTED BY:
CAROLYN Y. HALL & ASSOCIATES
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 2
APPEARANCES:
SUGARCANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE
OF FLORIDA, ROTH FARMS, INC.
AND WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC.:
MR. GARY P. SAMS
HOPPING, BOYD, GREEN & SAMS
123 SOUTH CALHOUN STREET
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32314
TELEPHONE: (904) 222-7500
FOR RESPONDENT-INTERVENOR:
MS. LISA B. HOGAN
ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
99 NORTHEAST 4TH STREET
THIRD FLOOR
MIAMI, FLORIDA 33132
TELEPHONE: (305) 536-5266
ALSO PRESENT:
DR. RONALD JONES
DR. ELIZABETH HENRY
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 3
T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S
E X A M I N A T I O N I N D E X
DEPONENT - DR. RICHARD T. Di GIULIO - 4/1/94
EXAMINATION: PAGES
EXAMINATION BY MS. HOGAN 4-207
-------------------------------------------------------
E X H I B I T S I N D E X
NUMBER DESCRIPTION MARKED
(EXHIBITS NUMBER 1 - 19 WERE MARKED
DURING THE TAKING OF THE DEPOSITION OF
DR. RICHARD Di GIULIO, APRIL 1, 1994.)
-------------------------------------------------------
SIGNATURE PAGE FOR DEPONENT 208
CERTIFICATION OF COURT REPORTER 209
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 4
STIPULATIONS
ON MOTION OF COUNSEL FOR THE UNITED STATES
OF AMERICA, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, THE
DEPOSITION OF DR. RICHARD T. Di GIULIO MAY BE TAKEN
BEGINNING AT OR AROUND 9:00 A.M. ON APRIL 1, 1994, AT
THE HILTON HOTEL, 3800 HILLSBOROUGH ROAD, THE WALKER
SUITE, DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA, AND WAS REPORTED BY
CAROLYN Y. HALL & ASSOCIATES.
THE SIGNATURE OF THE WITNESS TO THE TRANSCRIPT
OF HIS TESTIMONY IS HEREBY REQUIRED.
- - - - - - - - - - -
WHEREUPON,
RICHARD T. Di GIULIO, Ph.D.,
HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN,
WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED
AS FOLLOWS:
EXAMINATION BY MS. HOGAN:
Q. GOOD MORNING.
A. GOOD MORNING.
Q. MY NAME IS LISA HOGAN, AND I REPRESENT THE
UNITED STATES IN THESE PROCEEDINGS. I'M GOING TO ASK
YOU A SERIES OF QUESTIONS IN ORDER TO ASCERTAIN WHAT
YOUR OPINIONS AND TESTIMONY WILL BE AT TRIAL.
A. OKAY.
Q. I'LL ASK YOU A SERIES OF QUESTIONS. IF YOU
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 5
DON'T UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION, LET ME KNOW. IF YOU
ANSWER, THEN I'LL ASSUME THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'VE
ASKED OF YOU.
A. OKAY.
Q. OKAY? CAN YOU STATE YOUR FULL NAME FOR THE
RECORD?
A. RICHARD THOMAS Di GIULIO.
Q. OKAY. AND CAN YOU GIVE US YOUR PRESENT PLACE
OF EMPLOYMENT AND YOUR BUSINESS ADDRESS?
A. I'M CURRENTLY ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE
SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT AT DUKE UNIVERSITY IN DURHAM.
WHAT WAS THE OTHER?
Q. THE ADDRESS.
A. THE ADDRESS. SCHOOL OF THE ENVIRONMENT, DUKE
UNIVERSITY, DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA, 27708-0328.
Q. OKAY. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED AS AN
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR?
A. ABOUT ELEVEN AND A HALF YEARS.
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT ARE YOUR DUTIES?
A. TO TEACH IN THE AREA OF ENVIRONMENTAL
TOXICOLOGY; TO DIRECT THE ENVIRONMENTAL TOXICOLOGY
CHEMISTRY AND RISK ASSESSMENT PROGRAM IN THE SCHOOL OF
THE ENVIRONMENT; AND TO PERFORM RESEARCH RELATED TO
FATE AND EFFECTS OF POLLUTANTS IN ECOSYSTEMS.
Q. OKAY. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR AREA OF
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 6
EXPERTISE AT PRESENT?
A. MY AREA OF EXPERTISE IS BROADLY IN THE AREA OF
POLLUTANT FATE AND EFFECTS, PARTICULARLY IN AQUATIC
SYSTEMS. I HAVE BROAD INTERESTS IN TRACE METALS AS
WELL AS ORGANIC POLLUTANTS, ISSUES OF BIOACCUMULATION,
METABOLISM MECHANISMS OF TOXICITY, AGAIN, IN AQUATIC
ORGANISMS.
Q. OKAY. YOU SAID YOU HAVE BROAD INTEREST IN THE
FATE OF TRACE METALS?
A. YES.
Q. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
A. FACTORS AFFECTING FATE. IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT
COMPONENTS OF AN ECOSYSTEM POLLUTANTS END UP IN, WHICH
WILL THEN INFLUENCE COMPONENTS OF AN ECOSYSTEM, SAY, AT
RISK.
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER TESTIFIED AT TRIAL
BEFORE?
A. NO.
Q. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN DEPOSED BEFORE?
A. NO.
Q. OKAY. YOU WERE SERVED WITH A NOTICE OF TAKING
DEPOSITION DUCES TECUM IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR
DEPOSITION TODAY.
A. OKAY.
Q. I'M GOING TO HAND YOU THIS DOCUMENT AND ASK---
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 7
A. OKAY.
Q. ---IF THAT WAS YOUR NOTICE, IF YOU RECEIVED
IT.
A. YEAH, I BELIEVE SO.
Q. ALL RIGHT.
MS. HOGAN: WE'RE GOING TO MARK THAT AS
THE FIRST EXHIBIT TO YOUR DEPOSITION.
(THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED
TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S
EXHIBIT NUMBER 1 - DR. Di GIULIO
DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
Q. (BY MS. HOGAN) DID YOU REVIEW THIS NOTICE OF
TAKING DEPOSITION WHEN YOU RECEIVED IT?
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. THEN YOU'LL RECALL THAT ATTACHED TO IT
ON PAGE 6 IS A LIST OF DOCUMENTS TO BE PRODUCED---
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. ---IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR DEPOSITION TODAY.
A. RIGHT.
Q. I'D LIKE YOU TO GO THROUGH THE LIST. AND
PLEASE READ EACH ONE OF THE---
A. OKAY. A COPY---
Q. ---THE SECTIONS TO YOURSELF.
A. OH, I'M SORRY.
Q. AND TELL ME WHETHER YOU PRODUCED IT OR NOT.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 8
HAVE YOU PRODUCED THE ITEMS LISTED IN NUMBER 1?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL OF THE ITEMS LISTED IN
NUMBER 2?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL OF THE ITEMS LISTED IN
NUMBER 3?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL OF THE ITEMS LISTED IN
NUMBER 4?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL OF THE ITEMS LISTED IN
NUMBER 5?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL OF THE ITEMS LISTED IN
NUMBER 6?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL THE ITEMS THAT ARE
LISTED IN NUMBER 7?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL THE ITEMS LISTED IN
NUMBER 8?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL THE ITEMS LISTED IN
NUMBER 9?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 9
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL THE ITEMS LISTED IN
NUMBER 10?
A. YES.
Q. NUMBER 11?
A. YES.
Q. THOSE LISTED IN NUMBER 12?
A. YES.
Q. 13?
A. YES.
(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)
A. YES.
Q. THOSE LISTED IN ITEM 14?
A. YES.
Q. DID YOU REVIEW ALL THE ITEMS BEFORE THEY WERE
PRODUCED? DID YOU GO THROUGH YOUR FILES AND PULL THE DOCUMENT?
MR. SAMS: LET ME, IF I MAY, INSERT.
ACTUALLY, WHAT WE DID WAS, THE WITNESS GAVE US A
LIST OF DOCUMENTS HE HAD IN HIS FILES, AND WE
PULLED THE COPIES FROM OUR FILES BECAUSE HE DIDN'T
HAVE THE TIME AT THE POINT THAT WAS BEING DONE TO
ACTUALLY HAVE THE COPIES MADE. SO, HE ACTUALLY
TOLD US WHAT HE HAD.
WITNESS: I PROVIDED THEM.
MR. SAMS: AND WE PRESENTED THAT -- THOSE
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 10
DOCUMENTS FROM OUR FILES.
MS. HOGAN: SO YOU HAD A COPY OF ALL THE
DOCUMENTS THAT HE POSSESSED THAT WOULD BE
RESPONSIVE TO THIS REQUEST?
MR. SAMS: VIRTUALLY ALL. WE, SUBSEQUENTLY,
THIS WEEK DISCUSSED WITH HIM A COUPLE OR THREE
OTHER ITEMS, INCLUDING SOME DOCUMENTS ON WHICH HE
HAD MADE NOTES OF FUNDING -- UNFUNDED PROPOSAL FOR
WORK AND AN ARTICLE THAT WAS EIGHT OR NINE YEARS
OLD. AND WE ACQUIRED COPIES OF THOSE FROM HIM,
INCLUDING THE COPIES OF DOCUMENTS WITH HIS
HANDWRITTEN NOTES AND FURNISHED THOSE TO YOU A
COUPLE DAYS AGO.
MS. HOGAN: ALL RIGHT.
Q. (BY MS. HOGAN) WHAT NUMBER ARE WE ON?
A. 15, I THINK.
Q. ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL THE ITEMS
RESPONSIVE TO ITEM 15?
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL THE ITEMS RESPONSIVE TO
ITEM 16?
A. YES.
Q. THOSE RESPONSIVE TO 17?
A. YES.
Q. TO 18?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 11
A. YES.
Q. TO 19?
A. YES.
Q. TO 20?
A. YES.
Q. IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT OF THE LIST THAT
YOU GAVE COUNSEL, ALL THE DOCUMENTS THAT YOU GAVE TO
COUNSEL WERE PRODUCED?
A. YES.
Q. AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
A. WELL, THEY -- THEY ASKED ME FOR A LIST OF ALL
THE MATERIALS I HAD READ IN FORMULATING MY OPINIONS AND
IN COMMENTING ON THE PTR REPORT AND SO FORTH, AND
DELIVERED THAT TO THEIR OFFICE. AND I GUESS -- I
ASSUME THAT THEY DID DELIVER THOSE TO YOU.
Q. OKAY. DID YOU REVIEW THAT LIST YOURSELF?
A. I COMPOSED THAT LIST.
Q. THE LIST THAT YOU'RE READING, I MEAN,
EXHIBIT ONE.
A. DID I HAVE---
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. YES.
Q. DID YOU SEE THAT?
A. YES.
Q. YOU REVIEWED THAT?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 12
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY.
A. I GOT THIS DIRECTLY.
Q. OKAY. ARE WE ON ITEM 20?
A. 21, I THINK.
Q. ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU PRODUCED ALL THE ITEMS
LISTED IN ITEM 21?
A. YES.
Q. AND THOSE LISTED IN 22?
A. YES.
Q. THE ITEMS LISTED IN 23?
A. YES.
Q. THE ITEMS LISTED IN 24?
A. YES.
Q. THOSE IN 25?
A. YES.
Q. THOSE IN 26?
A. YES.
Q. THE ITEMS LISTED IN 27?
A. YES.
Q. 28?
A. YES.
Q. THOSE LISTED IN 29?
A. YES.
Q. THE ITEMS THAT ARE LISTED IN NUMBER 30?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 13
A. YES.
Q. THOSE LISTED IN 31?
A. YES.
Q. AS WELL AS THOSE IN 32?
A. YES.
Q. ALL DOCUMENTS LISTED IN 33?
A. YES.
Q. IN 34?
A. YES.
Q. 35?
A. YES.
Q. 36?
A. YES.
Q. 37?
A. YES.
Q. 38?
A. YES.
Q. AND 39?
A. YES.
Q. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'VE BEEN DESIGNATED AS
AN EXPERT WITNESS IN THESE PROCEEDINGS?
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. AND ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT AREAS
AND ISSUES YOU'LL BE RENDERING OPINIONS ON?
A. YES.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 14
Q. OKAY. WHAT ARE THOSE AREAS?
A. THOSE AREAS ARE ISSUES CONCERNING MERCURY
BIOACCUMULATION, SPECIFICALLY, POTENTIAL INTERACTIONS
BETWEEN NUTRIENTS AND MERCURY BIOACCUMULATION;
RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN NUTRIENTS AND MERCURY
METHYLATION.
Q. ANY OTHER AREAS?
A. I GUESS, SPECIFICALLY, POTENTIAL RELATIONSHIPS
BETWEEN PROPOSED STORMWATER TREATMENT AREAS AND MERCURY
DYNAMICS.
Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY MERCURY DYNAMICS?
A. TRANSPORT AND FATE OF MERCURY IN THE AQUATIC
WETLAND ECOSYSTEMS.
Q. ANY OTHER AREAS?
A. THAT'S -- I THINK THAT COVERS IT.
Q. OKAY. COUNSEL FOR THE CO-OP HAS PROVIDED US
WITH A SUPPLEMENTAL DESIGNATION OF EXPERT-IN-FACT
WITNESSES, AND YOU ARE LISTED AS A SUPPLEMENTAL EXPERT
WITNESS. AND ACCORDING TO THE DESIGNATION THE SUBJECT
MATTER OF YOUR EXPECTED TESTIMONY WILL BE AQUATIC
TOXOLOGY, FATE AND TRANSPORT OF CONTAMINANTS IN THE
ENVIRONMENT; IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING?
A. YES.
Q. THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FACTS AND OPINIONS WILL
BE THE INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS OF MERCURY AND RELATED
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 15
SAMPLING WITHIN THE EAA AND EPA AND POTENTIAL EFFECTS
OF THE PROPOSED SWIM PLAN ON MERCURY CONTAMINATION IN
THE PROPOSED STA'S IN THE EPA. IS THAT YOUR
UNDERSTANDING, AS WELL?
A. YES.
Q. ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL AREAS WHICH YOU'LL BE
TESTIFYING TO---
A. NO.
Q. ---THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF?
A. NO.
Q. OKAY. HAND YOU A COPY OF THAT AND ASK IF
YOU'VE RECEIVED THAT, AS WELL.
A. YES.
Q. OKAY.
MS. HOGAN: WE'LL MARK THAT AS THE NEXT
EXHIBIT TO YOUR DEPOSITION.
(THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED
TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S
EXHIBIT NUMBER 2 - DR. Di GIULIO
DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
Q. (BY MS. HOGAN) CAN YOU SUMMARIZE FOR US THE
SUBSTANCE OF YOUR OPINIONS AS TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF
THE STA'S AND THEIR EFFECT ON METHYLMERCURY PRODUCTION?
A. INSOMUCH AS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE STA'S
ARE LIKELY TO ENHANCE ACCUMULATION OF ORGANIC MATERIAL
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 16
AND NUTRIENTS AND ENHANCE REDUCING CONDITIONS AND
ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS THAT THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT
METHYLATION COULD BE INCREASED IN THOSE STA'S.
Q. OKAY. AND WHY IS THAT?
A. BECAUSE PREVIOUS STUDIES TEND TO INDICATE IT'S
-- PREVIOUS STUDIES INDICATE THAT CONDITIONS FAVORING
EUTROPHICATION, FAVORING INCREASED INPUTS OF
BIOAVAILABLE NUTRIENTS, ORGANIC CARBON AND -- WHICH
TEND ALSO TO ENHANCE THE LIKELIHOOD OF ANAEROBIC
CONDITIONS -- SEEM TO STIMULATE ACTIVITY OF MICROBIAL
POPULATIONS THAT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE METHYLATION OF
MERCURY.
Q. WHAT NUTRIENTS DO YOU ANTICIPATE BEING ADDED
TO THE STA'S?
A. PHOSPHORUS, SULFATE, VARIOUS IONS, MAGNESIUM,
CALCIUM, CARBONATE, NITROGEN.
Q. OKAY. CAN YOU SUMMARIZE THE SUBSTANCE OF YOUR
OPINIONS AS TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF STA'S AND THEIR
EFFECT ON METHYLMERCURY BIOACCUMULATION?
A. MY SENSE IS THAT THOSE SAME CONDITIONS AT --
ASSOCIATED WITH EUTROPHICATION WILL TEND TO REDUCE
BIOACCUMULATION IN FISH AND OTHER AQUATIC ORGANISMS.
Q. THAT THEY'LL REDUCE BIOACCUMULATION?
A. YES.
Q. AND WHY IS THAT?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 17
A. BECAUSE -- WELL, AGAIN, A LOT OF IT'S JUST
BASED ON WORLDWIDE STUDIES THAT SHOW A STRONG INVERSE
CONNECTION BETWEEN TROPHIC STATUS AND MERCURY
ACCUMULATIONS IN BIOTA. THAT IS THAT -- EVERYTHING'S
BEING EQUAL IN TERMS OF MERCURY INPUTS AND SO FORTH --
THAT OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEMS INVARIABLY SHOW HIGHER
CONCENTRATIONS OF MERCURY IN AQUATIC ORGANISMS RELATIVE
TO EUTROPHIC SYSTEMS.
Q. OKAY. CAN YOU SUMMARIZE THE SUBSTANCE OF YOUR
OPINIONS AS TO PHOSPHORUS' -- THE EFFECT OF PHOSPHORUS
ON METHYLMERCURY PRODUCTION?
A. WELL, I DON'T -- I DON'T -- THE EFFECT OF
PHOSPHORUS ON METHYLMERCURY PRODUCTION?
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. I TEND TO THINK THAT -- THAT PHOSPHORUS WOULD
TEND TO STIMULATE METHYLMERCURY PRODUCTION AGAIN IN --
BY -- AS A LIMITING NUTRIENT AFFECTING MICROBIAL
ACTIVITY.
Q. OKAY. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NUTRIENT
INPUT TO THE STA'S AND THE CONSERVATION AREAS AS
RELATED TO MERCURY?
A. WOULD -- WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT?
Q. UH-HUH (YES). WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
NUTRIENT INPUT TO THE STA'S AND THE CONSERVATION AREAS
AS IT RELATES TO MERCURY?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 18
A. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENT---
MR. SAMS: I'LL OBJECT TO THE FORM OF
THE QUESTION. DO YOU MEAN NUTRIENT INPUT TO
THE STA'S VERSUS NUTRIENT INPUT TO THE WATER
CONSERVATION AREAS?
MS. HOGAN: UH-HUH (YES). INPUT TO THE
WATER CONSERVATION AREAS AND THE EFFECT THAT
IT WOULD HAVE ON MERCURY.
A. WHAT DO I THINK WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN NUTRIENT INPUTS INTO THE STA'S VERSUS THE WATER
CONSERVATION AREAS---
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. ---AFTER THAT WATER'S GONE THROUGH THE STA'S?
IS THAT THE POINT? ARE YOU ASKING WHAT'S THE
DIFFERENCE? AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE WATER -- WATER
WOULD GO THROUGH THE STA'S AFTER THEIR CONSTRUCTION AND
THEN ENTER THE WCA'S. IS THAT CORRECT?
Q. OKAY. UH-HUH (YES).
A. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING?
Q. YEAH, I'LL ASK THAT, AS WELL, OKAY?
A. WELL, WITH -- WITH MY MODEL WITH MY
UNDERSTANDING THAT THE STA'S WOULD BASICALLY BE BUILT,
SAY, UPSTREAM, IF YOU WILL---
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. ---OF THE WCA'S, NUTRIENTS ENTERING THE WCA'S
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 19
AFTER GOING THROUGH THE STA'S WOULD BE LOWER THAN THAT
ENTERING THE STA'S.
Q. OKAY. WHAT IS YOUR OPINION AS TO THE EFFECT
OF NUTRIENT INPUT INTO THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS?
MR. SAMS: OBJECT TO THE FORM
OF THE QUESTION.
WITNESS: I'M SORRY. WOULD YOU REPEAT
THAT AGAIN?
MS. HOGAN: YES.
Q. (BY MS. HOGAN) WHAT IS YOUR OPINION AS TO THE
EFFECT OF NUTRIENT INPUT INTO THE WATER CONSERVATION
AREAS ON MERCURY?
A. ON MERCURY?
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
MR. SAMS: OBJECT AGAIN TO FORM.
A. SEE, LET ME GET THIS RIGHT. WHAT -- WHAT IS
MY OPINION OF THE EFFECT OF NUTRIENTS ON MERCURY IN
THE---
Q. WATER CONSERVATION AREAS.
A. ---IN THE W---
Q. YOU GAVE ME A---
A. I MEAN IT -- IT'S, YOU KNOW -- AGAIN, I -- I
THINK TO -- TO MAKE ANY SENSE OF THAT YOU HAVE TO
COMPARE RELATIVE AMOUNTS OF NUTRIENT INPUTS. MY
FEELING IS THAT, IF THOSE NUTRIENT INPUTS ARE VERY LOW,
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 20
LOW ENOUGH TO PUSH A SYSTEM TO BECOME MORE
OLIGOTROPHIC, THAT ISOLATED EFFECT WILL ENHANCE MERCURY
BIOACCUMULATION IN FISH AND OTHER AQUATIC ANIMALS.
Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU EXPECT ACCUMULATION OF
NUTRIENTS IN THE STA'S TO BE DIFFERENT FROM THE EFFECTS
IN THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS?
A. DO I -- SAY THAT AGAIN; SAY THAT AGAIN.
Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU EXPECT THE ACCUMULATION OF
NUTRIENTS IN THE STA'S---
A. ACCUMULATION OF NUTRIENTS.
Q. UH-HUH (YES). WITHIN THE STA'S, ALL RIGHT, DO
YOU EXPECT THAT ACCUMULATION TO BE DIFFERENT THAN THE
EFFECTS OF THOSE NUTRIENTS IN THE WATER CONSERVATION
AREAS?
A. I DON'T KNOW. IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S MIXING. I
WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAVE THIS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. SAY IT
-- SAY IT AGAIN.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU EXPECT THE ACCUMULATION OF
NUTRIENTS---
A. ACCUMULATION OF NUTRIENTS, OKAY.
Q. ---WITHIN THE STA'S---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---TO HAVE DIFFERENT EFFECTS THAN THEY WOULD
HAVE IN THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS?
A. I -- I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO -- I -- I
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 21
GUESS -- I'M ASSUMING THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE QUITE A
DIFFERENCE IN THE ACCUMULATION OF THE NUTRIENTS, AND
THAT WILL CERTAINLY HAVE AN EFFECT. NOW, A GIVEN INPUT
OF NUTRIENTS INTO ONE OR THE OTHER WILL HAVE A SIMILAR
EFFECT. BUT THAT'S WHAT I -- I MEAN, IN OTHER WORDS, I
-- MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THERE WOULD BE A DIFFERENT
PATTERN OF ACCUMULATION. AND THAT'S THE IMPORTANT
THING AFFECTING MERCURY, NOT THAT A NUTRIENT -- JUST,
YOU KNOW, THAT -- THAT -- THERE'S SOME INHERENT
DIFFERENCE IN THAT, IF YOU PUT NUTRIENTS HERE VERSUS
NUTRIENTS HERE, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE, NO.
Q. WHY IS THERE A DIFFERENT PATTERN?
A. WELL, AGAIN, I'M ASSUMING THAT THE STA'S ARE
GOING TO SERVE THEIR -- WHAT I UNDERSTAND TO BE THEIR
DESIGN FUNCTION IN TRAPPING NUTRIENTS, MAINTAINING
NUTRIENTS LARGELY WITHIN THE STA'S AND, THEREFORE,
REDUCING OUTPUTS OF NUTRIENTS INTO THE DOWNSTREAM
WCA'S.
Q. WHAT IF YOU ASSUME THAT THERE ARE NO STA'S?
A. IF THERE WERE NO STA'S, WELL, THEN THERE --
THEN -- THEN THERE'D BE MORE NUTRIENTS ENTERING THE
WCA'S THAN WOULD OCCUR WITH THE STA'S.
Q. ALL RIGHT.
A. AND THAT WOULD, IN -- IN ESSENCE, RENDER THOSE
WCA'S RELATIVELY MORE EUTROPHIC AND, THEREFORE,
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 22
RELATIVELY -- AND, THEREFORE, DRIVE RELATIVELY LESS
BIOACCUMULATION IN FISH AND AQUATIC ANIMALS OF MERCURY.
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM
"RESERVOIR EFFECT"?
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. WHAT IS YOUR -- CAN YOU -- EXCUSE ME.
CAN YOU SUMMARIZE THE SUBSTANCE OF YOUR OPINION AS TO
THE RESERVOIR EFFECT IN NORTHERN AREAS?
A. IN NORTHERN AREAS?
Q. UH-HUH (YES). WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THE
RESERVOIR EFFECT, IN YOUR OPINION?
A. I DON'T THINK IT'S ENTIRELY KNOWN, BUT MY
SENSE IS THAT, WHEN YOU TAKE A TERRESTRIAL AREA THAT
JUST HAS -- WITH NO -- NO POINT SOURCES OR, YOU KNOW,
MAJOR IMPACTING SOURCES OF MERCURY -- IN OTHER WORDS,
JUST REFLECTING ATMOSPHERIC DEPOSITION, NATURAL SOIL
ACCUMULATIONS AND SO FORTH -- AND THEN FLOOD THAT
SYSTEM, THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT YOU WOULD HIGHLY
STIMULATE CONDITIONS FOR MERCURY METHYLATION AND SO
FORTH, AGAIN, BY A BIG IMPACT -- A BIG INPUT OF
NUTRIENTS AND ORGANIC MATTER, DECAYING VEGETATION AND
SO FORTH. THAT WOULD THEN STIMULATE MICROBIAL
ACTIVITY.
Q. OKAY. WHAT IS YOUR OPINION AS TO HOW THE
RESERVOIR EFFECT WOULD RELATE TO THE STA'S?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 23
A. I DON'T HAVE A REAL CLEAR PICTURE IN MY MIND
OF WHAT THE STA'S LOOK LIKE AT PRESENT. BUT ASSUMING
THAT ESSENTIALLY THEY'RE TERRESTRIAL SYSTEMS THAT HAVE
BEEN UNFLOODED AND ARE NOW FLOODED, THAT A RESERVOIR
EFFECT COULD WELL OCCUR.
Q. OKAY. I'M GOING TO HAND YOU ANOTHER DOCUMENT
AND ASK IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY IT FOR THE RECORD.
A. THIS IS MY CURRICULUM VITAE, DATED JANUARY
1994.
MS. HOGAN: WE'LL MARK THAT AS THE NEXT
EXHIBIT TO YOUR DEPOSITION.
(THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED
TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S
EXHIBIT NUMBER 3 - DR. Di GIULIO
DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
Q. (BY MS. HOGAN) HAVE YOU HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT
IN THE SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS OF MERCURY AND MERCURY
COMPOUNDS?
A. YES. I HAD A STUDY IN AROUND '83, '84, IN
THERE, TO INVESTIGATE MERCURY CONCENTRATIONS IN PEAT
AND PEATLANDS OF EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA AND
ACCUMULATIONS IN CANAL SEDIMENTS, DRAINING THOSE
PEATLANDS, AND IN THE ESTUARINE BIVALVE RANGIA CUNEATA
AS SORT OF A BIOMONITOR OF MERCURY IN THOSE SYSTEMS.
Q. AND WHAT DID THAT STUDY ENTAIL?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 24
A. WELL, THE STUDY WAS MOTIVATED BY CONCERNS THAT
CONVERSION -- WELL, A PROPOSED PEAT TO METHANOL
FACILITY WAS GOING TO ENHANCE OR DRIVE THE SUCCESSIVE
REMOVAL OF LAYERS OF PEAT FROM A BROAD AREA IN EASTERN
NORTH CAROLINA REFERRED TO AS WHITETAIL FARMS. AND
THEN THAT WOULD EXPOSE EXCESSIVE LAYERS OF PEAT TO
OXIDIZING CONDITIONS THAT WOULD THEN POTENTIALLY
ENHANCE MOVEMENT OF MERCURY OUT OF THOSE PEAT AND INTO
RECEIVING AQUATIC SYSTEMS. AND SO, ANYWAY, THAT --
THAT'S -- THAT WAS THE RATIONALE FOR FUNDING THAT
STUDY.
Q. AND WHAT DID YOUR STUDY FIND?
A. WELL, IN ESSENCE, THE STUDY FOUND THAT THE
CONCENTRATIONS OF MERCURY IN THOSE NORTH CAROLINA
PEATLANDS WAS VERY LOW, ABOUT AS LOW AS WE COULD FIND
AMONG PEATLAND SYSTEMS. AND THAT IN CURRENT CANALS
DRAINING THOSE SYSTEMS CONCENTRATIONS OF MERCURY IN
CANAL SEDIMENTS -- CANAL SEDIMENTS AND IN THE BIVALVES
WERE VERY LOW. AND ALSO RELATED TO THAT STUDY A
CHEMIST AT -- THEN, AT THE DUKE MARINE LAB, A CO-PI ON
THAT PROJECT, WAS STUDYING WATER CONCENTRATIONS AND
SIMILARLY FOUND VERY LOW CONCENTRATIONS THAT WERE
CONSISTENT WITH REPORTS AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME OF
ESSENTIALLY PRISTINE SYSTEMS.
IN ESSENCE, THERE WAS -- THERE WAS NO PARTICULAR
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 25
SUPPORT FOR THE HYPOTHESIS THAT THOSE PEATLANDS WERE
GENERATING ELEVATED MERCURY IN THE DOWN -- IN THE
RECEIVING AQUATIC SYSTEMS.
Q. ALL RIGHT.
A. BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS --
IT WAS JUST A VERY -- THERE WAS VERY LITTLE MERCURY IN
THAT ENTIRE SYSTEM.
Q. OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY THAT THE MERCURY
CONCENTRATION LEVELS WERE LOW, WHAT DO YOU MEAN
QUANTITATIVELY?
A. WELL, AS I RECALL, THE MERCURY IN THAT PEAT
WAS -- WAS -- I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT PAPER. THAT'S
-- THAT WAS PROPOSED IN '84. BUT IT WAS ABOUT .1 PARTS
PER BILLION. THE -- IN THE -- IN THE CANALS IT WAS
ABOUT .0 -- I WANT TO THINK ABOUT .02, AS, LIKE, ABOUT
A TENTH OR LESS OF THAT. THE CONCENTRATIONS IN THE
BIVALVES, I BELIEVE, WERE, AT THE VERY TOP, ABOUT
TWENTY-FIVE OR THIRTY PARTS PER BILLION. WE COULDN'T
DETECT METHYLMERCURY, BUT OUR TECHNIQUES WERE REAL
LIMITED. OUR DETECTION LEVEL WAS ABOUT TWENTY-FIVE
PPB'S IN THE -- IN THE BIVALVES. SO THAT -- IT WASN'T
SURPRISING IF TOTAL MERCURY WAS ON THAT SAME ORDER,
THAT WE COULDN'T DETECT IT, YOU KNOW.
Q. OKAY. WHO FUNDED YOUR STUDY?
A. THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA WATER
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 26
RESOURCE RESEARCH INSTITUTE.
Q. OKAY. AND HOW LONG DID YOUR STUDY TAKE TO
COMPLETE?
A. IT WAS -- IT WAS FUNDED FOR ONE YEAR. I THINK
THE ENTIRE STUDY WAS, LIKE -- IT TOOK US ABOUT EIGHTEEN
MONTHS.
Q. AND WHAT METHODOLOGY DID YOU USE WITH YOUR
STUDY?
A. WE USED CLASSIC COLD VAPOR TECHNIQUES TO
MEASURE TOTAL MERCURY IN THE PEAT SEDIMENT AND CLAM.
AS I RECALL, WE USED A ORGANIC SOLVENT EXTRACTION FOR
ESTIMATING METHYLMERCURY. AND THEN THAT WAS STILL RUN
ON -- THAT WAS ALL DONE BY ATOMIC ABSORPTION
SPECTROSCOPY.
Q. OKAY. WHAT WAS THE TOTAL COST OF THE STUDY?
A. TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($25,000.00).
Q. OKAY. DID YOU COLLECT THE SAMPLES YOURSELF?
A. I HELPED -- IT COMPOSED THE -- COMPRISED THE
MASTER'S THESIS OF A STUDENT WHO DID THE BULK OF THE
SAMPLING. BUT THE TWO PI'S, MYSELF AND DAVID EVANS
ALONG WITH THE STUDENT ALSO DID APPRECIABLE FIELDWORK
IN COLLECTING SAMPLES.
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT WAS DONE WITH THE RESULTS OF
YOUR STUDY?
A. THEY WERE PUBLISHED. THERE WAS A REPORT GIVEN
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 27
TO THE UNC WRRI IN THE PARK THAT MY STUDENT AND I DID
-- PUBLISHED THAT COMPONENT IN WATER AND AIR AND SOIL
POLLUTION. AND DAVID EVANS, WHO DID THE WATER
ANALYSES, I DON'T BELIEVE, EVER GOT AROUND TO
PUBLISHING HIS PART IN THE OPEN LITERATURE.
Q. YOU SAID THE RATIONALE BEHIND THE STUDY WAS TO
DETERMINE WHETHER THE MOVEMENT OF THE SEDIMENT WOULD
INCREASE THE MERCURY WITHIN THE SYSTEM?
A. WELL, THE REPORT WAS STIMULATED BY SOME
REPORTS OF HIGH CONCENTRATIONS OF MERCURY IN CANAL
WATERS. AND, SO, THAT GENERATED A LOT OF CONCERN FOR
THE FISHERIES IN THE PAMLICO-ALBEMARLE AREA OF NORTH CAROLINA.
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. THE HYPOTHESIS ESSENTIALLY WAS THAT THE
HARVESTING OF THOSE PEAT WOULD EXPOSE THE UNDERLYING
LAYER. LET'S SAY, WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO DO THIS PEAT
TO METHANOL THING, THE IDEA WAS THEY'D GO IN AND, A FEW
INCHES AT A TIME, SCRAPE OFF THE SURFACE LAYER OF PEAT;
TAKE THAT TO A PLANT FOR CONVERSION TO METHANOL. AND,
AS YOU DID THAT, OF COURSE, YOU'D HAVE TO, ONE, DRAIN
THE PEATLAND TO SCRAPE IT; AND THEN, WHEN YOU SCRAPED
OFF THE LAYER, BOTH OF THOSE IMPACTS WOULD ESSENTIALLY
ENHANCE OXIDATION CONDITIONS.
YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE -- THE HYPOTHESIS WAS THAT
YOU WOULD PROBABLY DRIVE A SYSTEM FROM RELATIVELY
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 28
ANAEROBIC REDUCING CONDITIONS THAT WOULD TEND TO REDUCE
TRANSPORT OF MERCURY TO A MORE OXIDIZING AEROBIC
SITUATION THAT WOULD ENHANCE THE ABILITY OF SUBSEQUENT
RAINFALL AND SO FORTH TO WASH PEAT -- MERCURY INTO
RECEIVING SYSTEMS.
Q. OKAY. AS A RESULT OF YOUR STUDY AND YOUR
STUDIES FINDINGS DID THEY DECIDE TO GO AHEAD WITH THE
HARVESTING?
A. NO. THE -- THE WHOLE PROJECT, THE WHOLE
PROPOSED PEAT TO METHANOL PLANT NEVER WENT THROUGH
BECAUSE, AS I UNDERSTAND, CHANGING ECONOMIC CONDITIONS
-- IN OTHER WORDS, ALL THIS GOT GOING FOLLOWING THE
ARAB OIL EMBARGO. AND THERE WAS A STRONG INTEREST IN
ALTERNATIVES TO GASOLINE AND SO FORTH. AFTER CONCERN
ABOUT THE ARAB OIL EMBARGO SUBSIDED, SOME ECONOMIC
INCENTIVE DECLINED. AND, MOREOVER, ON TOP OF THAT,
THERE WERE OTHER BROAD ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE
WHOLE EFFECT ON THAT SYSTEM THAT WERE COMPLETELY
INDEPENDENT OF MERCURY.
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. AND THOSE TWO THINGS, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING,
ULTIMATELY WERE THE DEATH KNOLL OF THAT WHOLE PROJECT.
Q. OKAY. WHAT OTHER EXPERIENCE HAVE YOU HAD WITH
THE ANALYSIS OF MERCURY AND MERCURY COMPOUNDS?
A. IN TERMS OF DIRECT ANALYSIS, THAT'S BEEN IT.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 29
Q. OKAY. ON YOUR RESUME ON PAGE 7 UNDER "M.S.
THESES," IT SAYS, "ELIZABETH RYAN---
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. ---1985, DISTRIBUTION OF MERCURY IN PEAT,
SEDIMENT AND BIOTA." IS THAT---
A. THAT'S THE THESIS THAT---
Q. ---THE THESIS THAT YOU -- OKAY.
A. ---EMANATED FROM THAT WRRI STUDY, YES.
Q. THIS C.B. PACE AND R.T. Di GIULIO---
A. YES.
Q. ---LEAD CONCENTRATIONS IN SOIL---
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. ---SEDIMENT AND CLAM SAMPLES---
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. ---IS THAT ALSO FROM THE SAME STUDY?
A. YEAH, WE MORE OR LESS---
Q. THAT'S ON PAGE 12---
A. ---WE WEREN'T FUNDED TO DO THAT. BUT I HAD A
MASTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT STUDENT AT THE TIME,
CHARLES PACE, WHO WAS VERY INTERESTED IN THE OVERALL
PROJECT. AND SINCE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE EFFORT IN
THAT STUDY WAS GETTING THESE SAMPLES, WE HAD TONS OF
SAMPLES. HE HAD BASICALLY FOLLOWED UPON ELIZABETH AND
MEASURED LEAD -- MORE OR LESS DID A VERY SIMILAR STUDY
LOOKING AT LEAD CONCENTRATIONS IN THOSE SAME SAMPLES
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 30
AND ALSO LOOKING AT LEAD FRACTIONATION. THAT IS, THE
RELATIVE ASSOCIATION OF LEAD WITH HUMIC FOLIC ACIDS
VERSUS ION EXCHANGE. IN OTHER WORDS, INDICES OF
RELATIVE MOBILITY OF LEAD.
Q. OKAY.
A. BUT THAT WOULD -- WE JUST PIGGYBACKED THAT, IN
ESSENCE. WE WEREN'T REQUIRED BY THE FUNDING AGENCY TO
DO THAT.
Q. IT MENTIONS HERE UNDER REPORTS, Di GIULIO AND
RICHARDSON, 1989, THE EFFECTS OF ATMOSPHERIC DEPOSITION
ON RED SPRUCE.
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. WHAT -- WHAT IS YOUR BACKGROUND WITH THE
INVESTIGATION OF ATMOSPHERIC DEPOSITION?
A. WHAT PAGE ARE YOU ON, SO I'LL BE---
Q. 13.
A. 13?
Q. UH-HUH (YES), THE VERY LAST ENTRY UNDER
"REPORTS."
A. OH, I SEE. CURT AND I, WE GOT A GRANT -- AND
I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN IT STARTED, PROBABLY
AROUND '86, '87, SOMEWHERE IN THERE -- TO STUDY THE
IMPACTS OF OZONE ON RED SPRUCE. I -- ONE OF MY
INTERESTS HAS BEEN OXIDATIVE STRESS AND SO FORTH. SO,
I'D BEEN STUDYING FOR SOME TIME FREE RADICAL PROCESSES
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 31
IN AQUATIC ANIMALS. AND THEN THROUGH THE NAPAP PROGRAM
AND SO FORTH THERE WAS GREAT INTEREST IN IMPACTS OF
ACID RAIN ASSOCIATED OXIDANTS, LIKE N.O.X., S.O.X. IN
OZONE ON FOREST VEGETATION.
AND, SO, THE BIOCHEMICAL APPROACHES THAT I HAD
DEVELOPED FOR LOOKING AT OXIDATIVE STRESS IN AQUATIC
ORGANISMS WERE READILY APPROPRIATE -- YOU KNOW,
PROVIDED A REAL INTERESTING WAY TO TRY TO LOOK AT THESE
ATMOSPHERIC OXIDANTS ON TREES. THE BIOCHEMISTRY IS
QUITE RELATED. SO, WE WROTE A PROPOSAL TO THE U.S.
FOREST SERVICE AND DID, BASICALLY, A STUDY AT THE
BOYCE-THOMPSON INSTITUTE AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY, WHERE
WE -- IN COLLABORATION WITH THEIR PEOPLE -- EXPOSED RED
SPRUCE TO OZONE. AND CURT BASICALLY DID THE
PHYSIOLOGICAL MEASUREMENTS ON PHOTOSYNTHESIS, GAS
EXCHANGE AND SO FORTH. AND MY GROUP DID THE
BIOCHEMICAL MEASURES ON OXIDATIVE STRESS AND
ANTI-OXIDANT RESPONSES.
Q. IS THAT THE ONLY STUDY OR INVESTIGATION THAT
YOU'VE DONE RELATING TO ATMOSPHERIC DEPOSITION?
A. YES. I THINK SO, YEAH.
Q. OKAY.
A. WELL, LET ME THINK. AND WE DID -- WE DID A --
WE DID A LITTLE BIT, BASICALLY, OF WORK FOR CURT. HE
GOT -- HE GOT MONEY TO DO -- NOT THE BIOCHEMICAL PART,
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 32
BUT HE GOT MONEY TO DO SOME OF THE PHYSIOLOGICAL
EFFECTS IN A SIMILAR -- BASICALLY UNDER THE SAME
GENERAL NAPAP ACID PRECIPITATION PROGRAM TO STUDY
EFFECTS OF OZONE ON THE LOBLOLLY PINE, AND WHICH HE DID
AT THE DUKE FOREST SITE. AND, SO, MY LAB CONTRIBUTED
TO SOME BIOCHEMICAL ANALYSES. AGAIN, THEY WERE JUST
PIGGYBACKED. THEY -- WE JUST DID IT FOR THE FUN OF IT
BECAUSE WE WERE INTERESTED IN DOING IT.
Q. HAVE YOU BEEN ASKED TO EXPRESS AN OPINION IN
THIS CASE REGARDING ACID -- I MEAN ATMOSPHERIC
DEPOSITION---
A. NO.
Q. ---AS IT RELATES TO THE EVERGLADES?
A. NO.
Q. OKAY. ON PAGE 14 UNDER -- WELL, JUST ABOVE
OTHER PUBLICATIONS THERE'S AN ENTRY---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---FOR D.W. EVANS---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---Di GIULIO AND RYAN REGARDING MERCURY AND
PEAT---
A. YEAH.
Q. ---IN ITS DRAINAGE WATERS IN EASTERN NORTH
CAROLINA.
A. UH-HUH (YES).
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 33
Q. IS THAT THE REPORT THAT YOU WERE REFERRING
TO---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---PREVIOUSLY? OKAY. HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW THE
MERCURY CONCENTRATIONS THAT YOU FOUND IN NORTH CAROLINA
PEATLAND WILL COMPARE WITH THE MERCURY CONCENTRATIONS
FOUND IN THE FLORIDA EVERGLADES?
A. YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER REALLY CAREFULLY GONE
DOWN AND COMPARED THE TWO. I -- AND I SHOULD, BUT MY
RECOLLECTION -- AND I GUESS I HAVEN'T SEEN A WHOLE LOT
OF PEAT DATA FOR FLORIDA.
MY SENSE IS THAT -- IN FACT, I THINK, WHEN I WROTE
THE PAPER, THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF FLORIDA DATA. MY
GENERAL SENSE WAS THAT THE PEAT -- THE MERCURY
CONCENTRATIONS IN PEAT IN NORTH CAROLINA WERE GENERALLY
LOWER THAN THOSE OBSERVED IN FLORIDA. BUT THAT'S A
VAGUE MEMORY AND I WOULD -- I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND
MORE CAREFULLY CHECK THAT.
THE OTHER THING WE FOUND, TOO, IN THE STUDY WAS
THAT THERE'S THIS ENORMOUS -- VERY STRONG ASSOCIATION
IN THE CANAL SEDIMENTS AND THE PEAT BETWEEN ORGANIC
MATTER CONCENTRATION. AND, SO, IT'S VERY -- WITHOUT
THAT INFORMATION YOU HAVE TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL IN
COMPARING SITES OR, YOU KNOW -- WELL, AT LEAST THAT INFORMATION.
Q. ON PAGE 20 UNDER "GRANTS," IT SAYS THE EFFECTS
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 34
OF PEATLAND DRAINAGE ON MERCURY DYNAMICS ON EASTERN --
IN EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA. IS THAT THE GRANT THAT YOU
WERE SPEAKING OF BEFORE?
A. YES, UH-HUH (YES).
Q. FOR THIRTY-FIVE THOUSAND, EIGHT HUNDRED AND
FORTY ($35,840.00)?
A. RIGHT. I WAS WRONG. I SAID TWENTY-FIVE
($25,000.00) EARLIER BECAUSE IT USED TO BE -- I THOUGHT
THE CAP AT WRRI, BUT I THINK BECAUSE -- THAT'S RIGHT.
WE WERE -- WE GOT INCREASED MONIES BECAUSE DAVE EVANS
WAS MORE OR LESS ADDED AS A CO-PI ON ORIGINAL
SUBMISSION.
Q. HAS YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THE ANALYSIS OF
MERCURY AND MERCURY COMPOUNDS INCLUDED WATER ANALYSIS
OR HAS IT MAINLY BEEN SEDIMENT ANALYSIS?
A. WELL, IN THAT REPORT -- IN THAT STUDY, THAT
STUDY INCLUDED WATER COLUMN ANALYSES. THE ACTUAL
ANALYSES, THOUGH, WERE ALL PERFORMED IN THE LABORATORY
OF DR. EVANS AT THE DUKE MARINE LABORATORY.
Q. WHAT HAS BEEN THE EXTENT OF YOUR INVOLVEMENT
OR ANALYSIS OF MERCURY AND MERCURY COMPOUNDS IN THE
SOIL AND SEDIMENTS OF NATURAL LAKES?
A. WELL, THAT'S -- THAT STUDY INCLUDED WATER
BODIES THAT I -- I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD CHARACTERIZE
THEM AS LAKES, BUT THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, BROAD, SLOW
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 35
RIVERS. I DON'T KNOW. IT -- IT'S -- IT'S A HARD CALL.
BUT I -- I GUESS I CAN'T SAY THAT THOSE STUDIES
INCLUDED LAKE -- QUOTE, UNQUOTE -- LAKES.
Q. HAVE YOU HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT OR ANALYSIS OF
MERCURY AND MERCURY COMPOUNDS IN THE SOIL AND SEDIMENTS
OF WETLANDS?
A. YES. THIS STUDY IN THE NORTH CAROLINA
PEATLANDS WERE -- THE PEATLANDS IN THAT AREA INCLUDE
WHAT WE WOULD -- ARE, YOU KNOW, POCOSIN WETLANDS.
Q. OKAY. ARE THEY EUTROPHIC OR ALL OLUTROPHIC
[sic] WETLANDS? OLIGOTROPHIC, I'M SORRY.
A. I'M -- I'M RELUCTANT TO SAY. WE DIDN'T DO ANY
OTHER WATER CHEMISTRIES IN TERMS OF CHLOROPHYLL OR
PHOSPHORUS OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT WOULD DIRECTLY ADDRESS
TROPHIC STATUS. MY SENSE WAS THAT THERE -- THEY --
THEY WERE PRODUCT -- TYPICALLY PRODUCTIVE WETLAND
SYSTEMS. BUT I WOULD BE RELUCTANT TO CLASSIFY THEM AS
OLIGOTROPHIC OR EUTROPHIC, BECAUSE WE MADE NO MEASURES
THAT DIRECTLY ASSESSED THAT.
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU PUBLISHED ANY WORKS REGARDING
THE EFFECTS OF PHOSPHORUS ON THE METHYLATION PROCESS?
A. NO.
Q. HAVE YOU PUBLISHED ANY WORK CONCERNING THE
CAUSES OF METHYLMERCURY PRODUCTION IN EUTROPHIC
WETLANDS OR OLIGOTROPHIC WETLANDS?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 36
A. WELL, IN THAT STUDY WE DID ASSAY FOR
METHYLMERCURY. AND IN THE DISCUSSION WE ALLUDED TO
POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, BIOTIC AND ABIOTIC SOURCES OF
METHYLATION ACTIVITY, BUT WE DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY
ADDRESS IT EXPERIMENTALLY.
Q. OKAY. CAN YOU JUST GIVE ME A GENERAL
DEFINITION OF WHAT BIOACCUMULATION MEANS?
A. BIOACCUMULATION REFERS TO THE ACCUMULATION OF
A MATERIAL BY A BIOLOGICAL ORGANISM.
Q. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE MECHANISMS, CHEMICAL,
BIOLOGICAL AND PHYSICAL, THAT ARE INVOLVED IN MERCURY
BIOACCUMULATION AND BIOTA?
A. I DON'T THINK ANYONE COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDS
THAT. I UNDERSTAND A REASONABLE DEGREE OF THAT AS IT'S
UNDERSTOOD IN THE GENERAL LITERATURE AND FROM MY
EXPERIENCE AS AN AQUATIC TOXICOLOGIST.
Q. WHAT'S YOUR GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE
MECHANISMS THAT ARE INVOLVED?
A. IN THE ACCUMULATION OF MERCURY?
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. WELL, IT'S VERY COMPLEX. THERE'S NO SIMPLE
MECHANISM. YOU KNOW, IT VARIES TREMENDOUSLY AMONG
SPECIES. MY SENSE WOULD BE THAT BENTHIC ORGANISMS ARE
PROBABLY ACCUMULATING MERCURY MOST DIRECTLY FROM
ASSOCIATION WITH AN INGESTION OF SEDIMENTS THAT THE
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 37
MAJOR FORM OF MERCURY IN THOSE SEDIMENTS IS MERCURIC
ION, HG2+. AND IN SUPPORT OF THAT, THE BULK OF THE --
OR CONSISTENT WITH THAT, THE BULK OF MERCURY IN THOSE
ORGANISMS TENDS TO BE MERCURIC ION, NOT METHYLMERCURY.
IF WE LOOK AT LOWER TROPHIC LEVEL NEKTON OR EVEN LOWER
-- INCLUDING LOWER TROPHIC FISH, SAY, AS -- OR LET'S
LOOK AT LOWER TROPHIC FISH, THEN ACCUMULATION PATTERNS
OR SOURCES OF ACCUMULATION WOULD BE SORT OF A MIXED BAG
FOR IONIC METALS, INCLUDING MERCURY, MERCURIC ION, AS
WELL AS OTHER, CADMIUM LEAD.
IT'S GENERALLY THOUGHT THAT DIRECT GILL UPTAKE IS
THE MAJOR ROUTE OF ACCUMULATION. SO, THOSE FISH WOULD
PROBABLY BE ACCUMULATING MERCURY BOTH THROUGH DIRECT
GILL UPTAKE, WHICH WOULD PROBABLY BE LARGELY MERCURIC
ION. BUT THEN THEY WOULD ALSO BE ACCUMULATING MERCURY
THROUGH THE FOOD CHAIN, WHICH WOULD PROBABLY INCLUDE
BOTH MERCURIC ION AND METHYLMERCURY THAT'S BEEN
ACCUMULATED BY LOWER TROPHIC LEVELS, PLANKTON,
PHYTOPLANKTON, ZOOPLANKTON. AND THAT SEEMED TO BE
CONSISTENT WITH THE LITERATURE IN THAT THESE LOWER
TROPHIC -- VERY EARLY TROPHIC LEVELS HAVE A MIXTURE OF
MERCURIC ION AND METHYLMERCURY.
METHYLMERCURY, THOUGH, IS MUCH MORE READILY
RETAINED WITHIN AN ORGANISM. IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT
FOR AN ANIMAL TO DEPURATE MERCURIC ION -- I MEAN
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 38
METHYLMERCURY VERSUS MERCURIC ION. AND THAT, IN PART,
ACCOUNTS FOR THE RELATIVELY GREATER CONTRIBUTION OF
METHYLMERCURY AS YOU MOVE UP A FOOD CHAIN. SUCH THAT
BY THE TIME YOU GET TO HIGHER TROPHIC LEVELS, THINGS
LIKE LARGEMOUTH BASS AND SO FORTH, THE MAJOR ROUTE OF
BIOACCUMULATION IS THROUGH THE FOOD CHAIN AND IT IS
PREDOMINATELY METHYLMERCURY.
Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE BIOMAGNIFICATION AS IT
RELATES TO MERCURY?
A. WELL, BIOMAGNIFICATION, IN GENERAL, JUST
REFERS TO THE OBSERVATION FOR CERTAIN CHEMICALS THAT AS
YOU MOVE UP A FOOD CHAIN THERE ARE GREATER WHOLE BODY
CONCENTRATIONS OF A PARTICULAR POLLUTANT.
METHYLMERCURY IS WIDELY ACCEPTED TO BE ONE OF THE
UNUSUAL CHEMICALS THAT DISPLAYS BIOMAGNIFICATION. MOST
CONTAMINANTS DON'T. BUT METHYLMERCURY DOES SHOW
CLASSIC BIOMAGNIFICATION AND IT SEEMS TO BE THROUGH
CLASSIC TROPHIC TRANSFERS.
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY EUTROPHIC WETLANDS
WHICH ARE EXPERIENCING INCREASED RATES OF METHYLMERCURY
PRODUCTION?
A. I GUESS I'M NOT AWARE OF A SPECIFIC -- I'M
UNAWARE OF PEOPLE WHO'VE GONE AND TRIED TO DIRECTLY
ASSESS THAT AS YOU TOOK A SYSTEM AND MADE IT MORE
EUTROPHIC, THAT SPECIFIC SYSTEM WOULD ENHANCE
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 39
METHYLATION. THE EVIDENCE THAT EUTROPHICATION ENHANCES
METHYLATION IS BASED LARGELY ON JUST COMPARING
DIFFERENT SYSTEMS, AND FROM LABORATORY STUDIES
EMPLOYING NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT AND SO FORTH.
Q. ALL RIGHT. SO, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY EUTROPHIC
WETLANDS WHICH ARE EXPERIENCING INCREASED RATES OF
METHYLMERCURY PRODUCTION?
A. WELL, THE PROBLEM, YOU SEE -- INCREASED OVER
WHAT? I MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF EUTROPHIC WETLANDS
DEMONSTRATING METHYLATION. BUT TO SAY "INCREASED
METHYLATION" IMPLIES THAT WE HAD PRIOR KNOWLEDGE THAT
THEY -- WHEN THEY WERE LESS EUTROPHIC, THEY WERE
PRODUCING LESS METHYLMERCURY. AND I'M UNAWARE OF
STUDIES WHO FOLLOWED A SPECIFIC TIME -- WHO'S FOLLOWED
A SPECIFIC SYSTEM AS IT WENT FROM RELATIVE OLIGOTROPHY
TO MORE EUTROPHY AND, REALLY, DIRECTLY TEST OF THAT.
SO, NO, I'M NOT AWARE IN THAT STRICT A CONTEXT.
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY EUTROPHIC WETLANDS
WHICH ARE EXPERIENCING INCREASED BIOACCUMULATION OF
METHYLMERCURY IN BIOTA?
A. WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT?
Q. UH-HUH (YES). ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY EUTROPHIC
WETLANDS WHICH ARE EXPERIENCING INCREASED
BIOACCUMULATION OF METHYLMERCURY IN BIOTA?
A. NO.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 40
Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OLIGOTROPHIC WETLANDS
WHICH ARE EXPERIENCING INCREASED MERCURY METHYLATION?
A. WELL, AGAIN, AND RELATED TO THE OTHER ONE, BY
-- AS YOU STATED THE QUESTION, YOU'RE IMPLYING THAT
THERE WAS PRIOR UNDERSTANDING OF BIOACCUMULATION, AND
THEN SOMETHING CHANGED THE SYSTEM AND THEN THEY WERE
ABLE TO GO -- AND I'M NOT -- THAT'S JUST NOT DONE. OR
I MEAN IT'S JUST -- IT'S -- I'M UNAWARE OF PEOPLE DOING
THAT.
CLEARLY, THOUGH, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE COMPARED
AQUATIC SYSTEMS OF DIFFERENT TROPHIC STATUS AND
COMPARED MERCURY ACCUMULATION ACROSS THOSE SYSTEMS,
INCLUDING FLORIDA AND INCLUDING NORTHERN U.S. AND
CANADA AND SWEDEN AND SO FORTH, AND I'VE CONSISTENTLY
SHOWN A PATTERN IN WHICH OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEMS SHOW
GREATER BIOACCUMULATION, PARTICULARLY IN HIGHER TROPHIC
LEVELS OF MERCURY VERSUS THE SAME SPECIES IN MORE
EUTROPHIC SYSTEMS.
Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OLIGOTROPHIC WETLANDS
WHICH ARE EXPERIENCING INCREASED BIOACCUMULATION OF
METHYLMERCURY IN BIOTA?
A. WELL, EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK AREA APPEARS TO
BE SUCH A SYSTEM THAT IS RELATIVELY OLIGOTROPHIC, AND
SHOWS GREATER ACCUMULATIONS OF METHYLMERCURY IN FISH
VERSUS MORE EUTROPHIC AQUATIC SYSTEMS IN FLORIDA.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 41
Q. IS IT HIGHER THAN IT WAS HISTORICALLY?
A. I THINK THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION. I
DON'T -- I'M UNAWARE OF ANY DATA AVAILABLE TO ADDRESS A
HISTORICAL TREND THERE.
Q. THEN HOW DO YOU COME TO YOUR CONCLUSION THAT
IT'S EXPERIENCING INCREASED---
A. I MEAN -- WELL---
Q. ---RATES OF BIOACCUMULATION?
A. I TRIED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT, AGAIN, SINCE NO
ONE CAN GO IN AND STUDY -- NO ONE -- IT'S VERY, VERY
DIFFICULT TO -- UNLESS YOU EXPERIMENTALLY MANIPULATED
AN AQUATIC SYSTEM OR MAYBE DID IT WITH THESE STA'S,
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO GET THAT KIND OF CHANGE OVER
TIME WITH CHANGE IN TROPHIC STATUS. SO, TECHNICALLY,
YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU CAN'T SAY THAT THERE WAS A
HISTORICAL BASIS FOR THAT CONCLUSION. BUT THAT, AGAIN,
OUR BEST DATA SOURCE IS FROM COMPARATIVE SORTS OF
STUDIES THAT INDICATE OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEMS, INCLUDING
THE EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK AREA, TEND TO EXHIBIT
GREATER CONCENTRATIONS OF MERCURY IN BIOTA.
Q. WHAT STUDIES ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
A. THE -- I GUESS THE MAIN ONE THAT I'VE EXAMINED
WAS THE E MAP DATA SET.
Q. AND IT SHOWED WHAT?
A. IT SHOWED THAT -- WELL, I GUESS THERE'S A
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 42
COUPLE. THAT ONE INDICATED RELATIVELY GREATER
CONCENTRATIONS OF MERCURY IN FISH IN EVERGLADES
NATIONAL PARK AREA VERSUS WATER SYSTEMS CLOSER TO THE
EAA, IN THAT GENERAL AREA, WITH A REVERSE TREND
OBSERVED IN A NUMBER OF INDICES OR MEASURES THAT ARE
GENERALLY ASSOCIATED WITH TROPHIC STATUS, INCLUDING
PHOSPHORUS, CARBON, SULFATE CONDUCTIVITY.
Q. WHAT'S THE BASIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN
OLIGOTROPHIC AND A EUTROPHIC WATER SYSTEM?
A. ON A RELATIVE SCALE, OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEMS
EXHIBIT LOWER CONCENTRATIONS OF NUTRIENTS, LOWER
PHOTOSYNTHETIC ACTIVITIES, LOWER PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
PRODUCTION. ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, THEY TYPICALLY HAVE
LOWER CONCENTRATIONS OF PARTICULATE MATTER, GREATER
CLARITY, LESS BIOMASS PER SURFACE AREA OR VOLUME OF
WATER.
Q. OKAY. WHAT'S THE GENERAL MORPHOLOGY OF THE
LAKES OR RIVERS THAT YOU'VE STUDIED?
A. WELL, IN AS MERCURIES?
MR. SAMS: OBJECTION TO THE FORM.
Q. IN THE -- UH-HUH (YES). IN NORTH CAROLINA.
A. IN -- WELL---
Q. WELL, IN---
A. ---IN THE MERCURY WORK?
Q. YEAH.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 43
A. NOT, NOT OTHER WORKS. WE ESSENTIALLY LOOKED
AT TWO MAJOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF WATER SYSTEMS. ONE
WERE MAN-MADE CANAL SYSTEMS THAT WERE SERVING, REALLY,
TO HELP CONTROL WATER LEVELS IN THOSE PEATLANDS, SO, AS
A DRAINAGE SYSTEM THROUGH THE PEATLANDS. THEN, WE WERE
ALSO STUDYING THE PUNGO RIVER, WHICH IS A MAJOR NATURAL
RIVER SYSTEM IN EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA, THROUGH THAT
AREA, IN WHICH THIS CANAL WATER EMPTIES. IN THAT RIVER
WE WERE LOOKING IN THE UPPER REACHES OF IT IN THE
PEATLANDS AREA. IT WAS STILL THROUGHOUT PRETTY MUCH A
-- SORT OF A BLACK WATER RIVER, HIGH IN HUMICS AND
FULVICS. BUT IN ITS UPPER REACHES IT WAS FAIRLY SMALL,
AS I RECALL, MAYBE A HUNDRED METERS ACROSS OR EVEN
LESS. AND WE FOLLOWED IT DOWN TO NEAR THE MOUTH OF THE
-- I BELIEVE IT'S THE ALBEMARLE SOUND, WHERE IT BECOMES
VERY MUCH AN ESTUARINE BROAD RIVER.
Q. OKAY. WHAT ARE SOME OTHER MORPHOLOGICAL
CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PUNGO RIVER?
A. IN TERMS -- YOU MEAN BESIDES ITS -- WELL,
LIKE, IN SPECIFICALLY WHAT?
Q. LIKE, HOW DEEP IS IT?
A. IT -- IN THE UPPER REACHES, AS I RECALL, IT
WAS -- IT WOULD RUN -- I MEAN, OF COURSE, IT'S ON A
CROSS-SECTION. IT MIGHT IN THE SUMMERTIME, WHEN WE
WERE LOOKING AT IT, FAIRLY LOW FLOW, IT MIGHT HAVE A
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 44
MAXIMUM DEPTH OF FIVE OR SIX FEET. FURTHER DOWN, AS I
RECALL, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN TWENTY-FIVE FEET OR SO.
IT'S GENERALLY RATHER -- RELATIVELY SHALLOW.
Q. OKAY. WHAT KINDS OF FISH ARE IN THERE?
A. WE DIDN'T -- WE DIDN'T DO ANY WORK WITH FISH.
IT'S -- IN THE UPPER REACHES, PEOPLE DO BASS FISHING,
SO FORTH. IT'S PROBABLY PRETTY TYPICAL OF A LOT OF
FRESHWATER NORTH CAROLINA RIVERS, AS I UNDERSTAND, THAT
HAS REGIONAL POPULATIONS OF BASS, CATFISH, VARIOUS
SPECIES OF SUNFISHES, CRAPPIE, YOU KNOW. SO, IT'S A
PRETTY POPULAR SPORT FISHING AREA. AND THEN AS IT
MOVES TOWARDS THE COAST IT BECOMES -- TO THE SOUND, AS
I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU CAN CATCH GRAY TROUT AND MORE
TYPICAL ESTUARINE SPECIES. AND THAT'S WHY WE
SPECIFICALLY TARGETED RANGIA CUNEATA, WHICH IS A COMMON
CLAM THROUGHOUT THE GULF AND LOWER ATLANTIC COAST THAT
EXHIBITS A HUGE RANGE OF SALINITY TOLERANCE FROM FRESH
TO ALMOST PURE SALT. AND THAT WAS WHEN -- IN OTHER
WORDS, WE COULD READILY CATCH THAT CLAM THROUGHOUT
THOSE REACHES OF THE PUNGO.
Q. WHAT TYPE OF SOIL OR SEDIMENT DOES IT HAVE?
A. WELL, ALL WE REALLY MEASURED WAS ORGANIC
MATTER CONTENT, WHICH VARIED TREMENDOUSLY IN THE UPPER
REACHES. I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER THE -- SEEMS TO ME
ORGANIC CARBON, OR, AT LEAST, LOSS ON IGNITION AS A
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 45
MEASURE OF THAT, WAS MAYBE UP TO TWELVE OR FIFTEEN
PERCENT. IT WAS A VERY, YOU KNOW, CLASSIC MUCK
SEDIMENT AND, YOU KNOW, REFLECTED THE INPUTS OF THOSE
PEATLAND AREAS THAT WERE DRAINING INTO IT. AND, OF
COURSE, THE PEATLAND WAS FAR -- AS I RECALL, THE
PEATLAND -- THE PEAT ITSELF WAS FORTY, FIFTY PERCENT OR
SO ORGANIC MATTER.
AND THEN IN THE PUNGO THERE'S MORE OR LESS A
GRADIENT. AND THAT'S WHAT WE LOOKED AT, SPECIFICALLY,
AT FRACTIONATION OF MERCURY IN THOSE SEDIMENTS GOING
FROM THE HIGH ORGANIC MATTER CONTENT MUCK SEDIMENTS
DOWN TO THE MOUTH, WHICH BECAME FAR SANDIER AND, AS I
RECALL, HAD ORGANIC MATTER CONCENTRATIONS IN THE, YOU
KNOW, ONE, TWO PERCENT RANGE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
Q. OKAY. YOU SAID YOU WOULD CONSIDER IT TO BE
SIMILAR TO A WETLAND SYSTEM?
A. WELL, THE PEATLAND -- THE POCOSINS THAT WERE
INCLUDED IN THE STUDY ARE CONSIDERED A CLASS -- A TYPE
OF WETLAND SYSTEM. SO WE'RE ACTUALLY DOING --
OBVIOUSLY, WE COULDN'T DO RANGIA STUDIES THERE, BUT WE
COLLECTED MUCK PEAT SOILS IN THE POCOSIN AREA THAT WERE
COVERED BY NATURAL VEGETATION, IN FACT, IN LOOKING AT
MERCURY FRACTIONATION AND CONCENTRATIONS IN THOSE. SO,
YEAH, THOSE POCOSINS ARE A WETLAND TYPE.
Q. HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 46
A. P-O-C-O-S-I-N.
Q. WHAT TYPE OF SOIL IS GENERALLY FOUND IN
OLIGOTROPHIC WETLANDS?
A. I'M NOT REAL SURE.
Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT TYPES OF SOIL -- WHAT TYPE OF
SOIL IS FOUND IN EUTROPHIC WETLANDS?
A. WELL, I WOULD JUST -- I WOULD TEND TO ASSUME
THAT EUTROPHIC WETLAND SOILS WOULD PROBABLY HAVE
RELATIVELY HIGHER ORGANIC MATTER CONTENT AND SO FORTH.
BUT I GUESS I'VE NEVER SEEN WETLAND SOILS CLASSIFIED
THAT WAY IN TERMS OF OLIGOTROPHIC OR EUTROPHIC SOILS.
THAT'S SORT OF A DIFFERENT---
Q. PRIOR TO YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS LITIGATION
HAVE YOU EVER STUDIED THE FLORIDA EVERGLADES AQUATIC
SYSTEM?
A. NO.
Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS
OF MORPHOLOGY OF THE EVERGLADES AQUATIC SYSTEM?
A. NOT IN DETAIL. I'VE EXAMINED A NUMBER OF THE
MAPS THAT SHOW THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE EVERGLADES
AGRICULTURAL AREA, THE AREAS WHERE THE PROPOSED STA'S
WOULD GO IN, THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS, THE
EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK REGION, THE CANAL SYSTEMS THAT
CONNECT THE TWO. I -- I'VE BEEN DOWN IN THAT AREA JUST
AS A TOURIST AND I'VE A GENERAL SENSE OF HOW SOME OF
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 47
THAT AREA LOOKS. BUT I DON'T HAVE DETAILED INFORMATION
OF THE TYPE YOU ASK.
Q. OKAY. WHAT TYPES OF ANIMALS ARE PRESENT?
A. IN -- THROUGHOUT THAT REGION?
Q. UH-HUH (YES). THROUGHOUT THE EVERGLADES
SYSTEM.
A. SYSTEM?
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. LOTS. BIRDS, MAMMALS. I MEAN -- I GUESS SOME
OF THEM MORE -- THE ONES THAT I -- THROUGH MY READING
OF PARTICULAR INTERESTS RELATIVE TO MERCURY WOULD BE
SOME OF THE ENDANGERED SPECIES, LIKE THE BLACK PANTHER,
THE SNAIL KITE, THE WOOD IBIS. IN TERMS OF AQUATIC --
OF FISH, IT SEEMS TO EXHIBIT PRETTY TYPICAL ASSEMBLAGES
OF FRESHWATER FISHES SEEN IN SOUTHERN SYSTEMS; A LOT OF
CENTRARCHIDS SUCH AS LARGEMOUTH BASS AND OTHER
SUNFISHES, BOWFIN, VARIOUS GARS. I'M TRYING TO THINK.
OF COURSE IT'S -- THERE'S ALLIGATORS IN THE REGION; HAS
A KIND OF A -- FROM MY GENERAL INTEREST IN ORNITHOLOGY,
IT HAS A REAL DIVERSE AVA FAUNA OF TEMPERATE BIRDS, AS
WELL AS SOME MORE TROPICAL SPECIES LIKE FLAMINGOES,
IBIS AND SO FORTH, KITES.
Q. OKAY. WHAT TYPES OF PLANTS AND VEGETATION ARE
PRESENT?
A. WELL, JUST THROUGH MY READINGS I -- I
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 48
UNDERSTAND THAT IN THE WETLAND SYSTEMS THE DOMINANT
PLAN IS SAWGRASS; THERE'S SOME CATTAIL; AND, OBVIOUSLY,
THERE'S SOME CONCERN OF INCREASING -- INCREASES IN
CATTAIL VERSUS SAWGRASS IN CERTAIN AREAS. I KNOW
THERE'S ALSO BALD CYPRESS SYSTEMS IN THE GENERAL AREA,
CLASSICS, CYPRESS, TUPELO SWAMPS. BUT AS I UNDERSTAND
IT, THE MARSH -- CERTAINLY THE DOMINANT MARSH PLANT
TENDS TO BE SAWGRASS WITH LESSER AMOUNTS OF CATTAIL.
Q. OKAY. IS IT YOUR BELIEF THAT THERE'S A
MERCURY PROBLEM IN THE FLORIDA EVERGLADE SYSTEM?
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. IN GENERAL TERMS WHAT DO YOU REGARD AS
THE EXISTING MERCURY PROBLEM IN THE EVERGLADES?
A. WELL, THERE APPEARS TO BE A NUMBER OF AREAS
WITHIN THE EVERGLADE SYSTEM THAT HAVE RELATIVELY HIGH
CONCENTRATIONS OF MERCURY IN HIGHER TROPHIC ORGANISMS,
PROBABLY MOST -- BEST EXHIBITED BY LARGEMOUTH BASS
THAT, IN A NUMBER OF LOCATIONS, THOSE CONCENTRATIONS
EXCEED THE FDA LIMITS, WHICH, I BELIEVE, NOW ARE ONE
PART PER MILLION. THERE'S ALSO -- WHICH HAS AN
IMPORTANT -- PROBABLY A MORE IMPORTANT HUMAN HEALTH
POTENTIAL IMPACT, ALTHOUGH IT MAY -- IT MAY AS WELL --
MAY POTENTIALLY BE A HARBINGER OF IMPACTS ON THOSE
POPULATIONS. AND PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANTLY, THOUGH,
SERVES AS A GENERAL CONCERN THAT MERCURY CONCENTRATIONS
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 49
ARE IN THE REALM TO EVOKE BOTH HUMAN HEALTH AND
ECOSYSTEM CONCERNS, THE LATTER BEING MUCH MORE
DIFFICULT TO GET AT. BUT WITH -- CERTAINLY WITH
REPORTS OF HIGH CONCENTRATIONS IN ENDANGERED SPECIES,
LIKE THE PANTHER, SUGGESTS A POTENTIAL FOR ECOLOGICAL
IMPACTS, AS WELL AS THE CLEAR HUMAN HEALTH IMPACTS.
Q. IS THE MERCURY PROBLEM IN THE EVERGLADES
MANMADE OR A NATURAL CAUSE?
A. WE DON'T KNOW. MY SENSE, IT'S A -- IT COULD
BE A COMBINATION OF THE TWO. WITHOUT THE HISTORICAL
INFORMATION, WE JUST DON'T KNOW IF -- IF, PERHAPS,
MERCURY IN BASS IN EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK WERE ALSO
-- YOU KNOW, OVER FDA ACTION LIMITS BEFORE THERE WERE
PEOPLE THERE TO EAT THEM. THAT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE.
MY GENERAL SENSE IS THAT THE MAIN VARIABLES
DRIVING THESE ELEVATED CONCENTRATIONS ARE ATMOSPHERIC
INPUTS OF MERCURY COMBINED WITH PARTICULAR LOCAL
IMPACTS THAT ENHANCE BIOACCUMULATION. AND I THINK IT
IS CLEAR THAT HUMAN ACTIVITIES HAVE ENHANCED
ATMOSPHERIC CONCENTRATIONS AND ATMOSPHERIC DEPOSITION
OF MERCURY ON A GLOBAL LEVEL. YOU KNOW, THAT'S CLEARLY
SEEN IN MARINE WATERS IN CORES IN VERY, VERY REMOTE
AREAS. YOU KNOW, IT MAKES MERCURY A VERY COMPLICATED,
DIFFICULT ISSUE BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY LARGELY NOT A
POINT SOURCE ISSUE. IT'S A -- THE VOLATILITY OF
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 50
MERCURY AND ITS BIZARRE CHEMISTRY MAKES IT MUCH MORE
RECALCITRANT.
SO -- AND THEN, ON THE OTHER SIDE I DON'T THINK WE
KNOW YET, VERY MUCH, HOW OUR SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES ARE
CHANGING. YOU KNOW, GIVEN THAT -- FOR THE MOMENT THAT,
SAY, THE SOURCE VARIABLE IS UNCONTROLLABLE OR WHATEVER,
WE DON'T HAVE A VERY GOOD UNDERSTANDING ON HOW OUR
ACTIVITIES ENHANCE BIOACCUMULATION BY CHANGES IN
WHATEVER, REDOX STATUS AND SO FORTH.
Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE HYDROLOGY OF THE
FLORIDA EVERGLADES SYSTEM?
A. TO AN EXTENT. AGAIN, I'VE READ A NUMBER OF
THE REPORTS PERTAINING TO THIS. AND, AGAIN, HAVE SEEN
MAPS SHOWING DRAINAGE CANALS AND HOW -- THE HUMAN
INFLUENCE OF DRAINAGE PATTERNS. AND READ SOMETIME
BACK, OUT OF JUST MY OWN INTEREST, IMPACTS OF CORPS OF
ENGINEER PROJECTS, VARIOUS HUMAN ACTIVITIES ON NATURAL
WATER FLOWS AND HOW -- YOU KNOW, THE ENORMOUS IMPACT,
APPARENTLY, OF HUMAN ACTIVITIES ON ALTERING THE
HYDROLOGY OF WATERS THAT NORMALLY FLOWED BY SHEET FLOW
THROUGH THE EVERGLADES THAT ARE NOW LARGELY DIVERTED BY
CANALS AND GOING BACK AND FORTH TO LAKE OKEECHOBEE,
BACK AND FORTH TO COASTLINES, TO MIAMI AND SO FORTH.
Q. WHAT'S YOUR GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE
HYDROLOGY WITHIN THE SYSTEM?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 51
A. WELL, I GUESS MY GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE
HYDROLOGY IS THAT THERE'S, BY AND LARGE, A GENERAL
MOVEMENT OF WATER FROM NORTH TO SOUTH FROM LAKE
OKEECHOBEE SOUTH THROUGH -- TO THE EVERGLADES NATIONAL
PARK; THAT, HISTORICALLY, THAT FLOW HAD BEEN LARGELY BY
SHEET FLOW. THAT, IN ESSENCE, WAS THE UNDERPINNING OF
THE EVERGLADES AREA. THAT NOW MUCH OF THAT WATER IS
DIVERTED INTO CANALS FOR ISSUES OF AGRICULTURE, FLOOD
PROTECTION, DRINKING WATER FOR MAJOR URBAN AREAS SUCH
AS MIAMI, AND SO FORTH. AND THAT THE NET EFFECT IS
THAT THE EVERGLADES, IN GENERAL, AND CERTAINLY THE
PARK, MORE SPECIFICALLY, SEES MUCH GREATER -- PROBABLY
MORE -- GREATER OSCILLATIONS IN WATER INPUTS AND,
PROBABLY, IN GENERAL, LESS WATER THAN PREVIOUSLY.
Q. OKAY. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE WATER MOVING
THROUGH THE EVERGLADES MOVES THROUGH THE CANALS VERSUS
SHEET FLOW?
A. I DON'T KNOW. MY SENSE IS A MAJORITY.
Q. A MAJORITY?
A. GOING THROUGH THE CANALS VERSUS SHEET FLOW.
Q. OKAY. CAN YOU DESCRIBE GENERALLY FOR ME THE
PROCESS OF METHYLATION OF MERCURY?
A. I GUESS AT THIS POINT IN TIME IT'S GENERALLY
THOUGHT THAT IT'S PROBABLY LARGELY MICROBIAL ACTIVITY.
ALTHOUGH, PEOPLE STILL DISTINGUISH BETWEEN BIOTIC AND
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 52
ABIOTIC METHYLATION. PROBABLY, THE ABIOTIC SIDE
APPEARS TO BE FAR LESS ADDRESSED. BUT THERE IS A LOT
OF INTEREST IN THE POTENTIAL FOR ORGANIC MATTER, SUCH
AS HUMIC MATERIALS, TO ABIOTICALLY METHYLATE MERCURY,
PARTICULARLY, FOR INSTANCE, WITH INTERACTION BETWEEN
SUNLIGHT ENERGY AND HUMID MATERIALS. AND THAT COULD
DRIVE METHYLATION. BUT STILL, THOUGH, THE BULK OF WORK
IN THAT AREA IS FOCUSED ON MICROBIAL ACTIVITIES.
AND RECENT STUDIES APPEAR TO INDICATE THAT
SULFATE-PRODUCING BACTERIA PROBABLY PLAY A CENTRAL ROLE
IN MERCURY METHYLATION AND THAT THE ACTIVITIES OF THESE
MICROBES TENDS TO BE GREATEST IN SLIGHTLY ANOXIC
CONDITIONS OR NEAR TO THE AEROBIC-ANAEROBIC INTERFACE.
THAT'D BE A GENERAL SENSE OF IT.
Q. OKAY. WHAT IS, BASICALLY, DEMETHYLATION?
A. DEMETHYLATION IS ESSENTIALLY THE REVERSE OF
METHYLATION IN WHICH THE -- AND, AGAIN, THIS IS, I
BELIEVE, TO HAVE BEEN LARGELY THOUGHT TO BE MICROBIALLY
DRIVEN AND, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, PROBABLY ABOUT THE SAME
-- MANY OF THE SAME ORGANISMS THAT PERFORM
METHYLATION. IN THE DEMETHYLATION PROCESS, USUALLY,
UPON FOLLOWING DEMETHYLATION THE MERCURY IS FURTHER
REDUCED TO ELEMENTAL MERCURY THAT CAN THEN -- WILL
TYPICALLY VOLATIZE INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. AND RELATIVE
-- AS I UNDERSTAND IT -- RELATIVE TO METHYLATION,
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 53
DEMETHYLATION SEEMS TO BE SOMEWHAT FAVORED UNDER MORE
AEROBIC CONDITIONS.
Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, "MORE FAVORED UNDER AEROBIC
CONDITIONS"?
A. WELL, THAT, IF YOU -- IF YOU LOOKED AT
RELATIVE RATES OF METHYLATION AND DEMETHYLATION -- AND
I THINK -- YOU KNOW, THIS, AGAIN, IS NOT WELL
UNDERSTOOD AT ALL UNDERNEATH. THERE'S SOME PRELIMINARY
INFORMATION OUT THERE. BUT FROM THAT LITTLE AVAILABLE
INFORMATION, WHILE -- AS UNDER MORE ANOXIC CONDITIONS
NET METHYLATION IS GOING TO DOMINATE, UNDER MORE
AEROBIC CONDITIONS NET DEMETHYLATION IS GOING TO,
PROBABLY, MORE DOMINATE. THERE'S JUST SORT OF -- YOU
KNOW, AS YOU GO FROM ANAEROBIC TO AEROBIC YOU'RE GOING
TO ENHANCE DEMETHYLATION. WHEREAS, AS YOU GO FROM
AEROBIC TO ANAEROBIC YOU'RE GOING TO TEND TO ENHANCE
METHYLATION. SO, IT'S SORT OF A TRADEOFF.
Q. OKAY. ARE THOSE FOREGOING PROCESSES THE SAME
IN EVERY AQUATIC ENVIRONMENT?
A. I DOUBT IT. I MEAN I'M SURE THERE'S A -- YOU
KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF -- I MEAN I DON'T THINK WE
REALLY KNOW. I MEAN WE A LOT OF THIS IS -- I THINK'S
JUST REALLY BEEN SCRATCHED. BUT WE DON'T -- I THINK WE
HAVE A REAL -- VERY POOR UNDER -- WE DON'T EVEN
UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE PROCESS ENTIRELY, MUCH LESS
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 54
UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH IT MIGHT VARY ACROSS DIFFERENT
SYSTEMS. BUT, LIKE MOST THINGS IN THE ENVIRONMENT AND
IN ECOLOGY, THERE'S PROBABLY NOT ONE SIMPLE PROCESS
OCCURRING ACROSS SYSTEMS.
Q. OKAY. DO WE -- UNDER THE -- EXCUSE ME. DO WE
UNDERSTAND THE BIOACCUMULATION OF METHYLMERCURY IN
BIOTA -- DO WE UNDERSTAND THAT PROCESS AS IT IS
OCCURRING IN THE EVERGLADES SYSTEM?
A. NO, I DON'T THINK WE DO.
Q. WHAT MORE WOULD WE NEED TO KNOW?
A. WE -- I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW A LOT OF THINGS.
WE NEED TO KNOW THE NATURE OF FOOD WEBS THAT DRIVE
MERCURY BIOACCUMULATION, YOU KNOW. WE NEED TO KNOW --
WE NEED A LOT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHY PARTICULAR
AREAS MIGHT EXHIBIT GREATER ACCUMULATIONS IN OTHER
SYSTEMS AS IT -- NATURES OF FOOD WEBS. IS IT THINGS
LIKE ABSORPTIVE CAPACITY, YOU KNOW, THE RELATIVE
IMPORTANCE OF, IN ESSENCE, COMPETITORS, YOU KNOW,
PARTICULATE MATTER THAT WILL BIND MERCURY AND SO FORTH,
AS SORT OF OPPOSED TO PROCESSES LEADING TO METHYLATION
AND WHAT CONTROLS THAT METHYLMERCURY ONCE IT IS
METHYLATED. IT'S -- I THINK IT'S EXTREMELY COMPLEX.
AND FOR ANYONE TO THINK THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT, I
GUESS I WOULDN'T BELIEVE THEM.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE POSSIBLE SOURCES
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 55
OF MERCURY ARE IN THE EVERGLADES SYSTEM?
A. WELL, THE CLEAREST TWO WOULD BE ATMOSPHERIC
DEPOSITION AND -- WELL, MAYBE THREE, I GUESS, WOULD BE
-- I WOULD TEND TO THINK ATMOSPHERIC DEPOSITION IS THE
MAJOR ONE. IN ADDITION TO THAT, COULD BE SURFACE WATER
INPUTS AND, IN ADDITION TO THAT WOULD JUST BE MERCURY
THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH THE SOILS AND SEDIMENTS OF THAT
SYSTEM, BOTH AS A NATURAL PART OF THAT SYSTEM, AS WELL
AS WHAT'S ACCUMULATED OVER TIME VIA THOSE OTHER
SOURCES.
Q. OKAY. WHAT IS THE USUAL EFFECT OF FLOODED
SOILS ON MERCURY METHYLATION?
A. AGAIN, I -- AS I RECALL, THAT'S -- MY SENSE OF
THAT'D BE, YOU KNOW, REMINISCENT BASICALLY OF THE
FLOODING EFFECT, THAT IF YOU FLOODED THAT AREA, YOU
WOULD PROBABLY ENHANCE METHYLATION.
Q. AND WHY IS THAT?
A. I THINK FOR A LOT OF THE SAME REASONS WHEN WE
TALKED ABOUT THE RESERVOIR EFFECT THAT YOU'RE DRIVING
THE DECAY OF A LOT OF PLANT MATERIAL AND SO FORTH. SO,
YOU'RE JUST INPUTTING A BIG SLUG OF NUTRIENTS AND
ENERGY INTO THE SYSTEM. AND THERE ARE ALSO -- SO --
WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, FOSTERING BACTERIAL ACTIVITY, WHICH
IS THEN GOING TO -- AND HAS -- AND IS GOING TO UPTAKE A
LOT OF THE OXYGEN FOR THAT BIOLOGICAL ACTIVITY. SO,
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 56
YOU'RE GOING TO ENHANCE -- YOU'RE GOING TO PUSH THE
SYSTEM TO BECOME SOMEWHAT MORE ANAEROBIC AND THE NET
EFFECT OF ALL THAT WOULD BE TO ENHANCE METHYLATION.
Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM "HYDROPERIOD"?
A. YES, VAGUELY.
Q. WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT MEANS?
A. HYDROPERIOD WOULD -- REFERS TO THE TEMPORAL
PATTERN OF FLOODING AND SO FORTH OR CHANGES IN THE
WATER LEVEL WITHIN A CERTAIN SYSTEM.
Q. WHAT EFFECTS DO YOU BELIEVE HYDROPERIOD HAS ON
MERCURY METHYLATION AND MERCURY CYCLING IN THE
EVERGLADES SYSTEM?
A. WOW, I THINK THAT'S REALLY -- I DON'T THINK --
I DON'T THINK WE KNOW THAT. YOU KNOW, THE SIMPLE
PREDICTION WOULD PROBABLY BE THAT, IF WE INCREASED -- I
THINK IT'S -- THAT'S REALLY COMPLICATED. I MEAN, IF
YOU -- IF YOU FLOOD AN AREA -- WE'VE ALREADY TALKED
ABOUT THAT -- THAT WOULD BE AN IMPACT OF A HYDROPERIOD.
IF WE DESICCATED AN AREA -- I MEAN ALL -- A LOT OF
PEOPLE HAVE SUGGESTED THAT IF YOU TAKE A NORMALLY
FLOODED AREA AND DRY IT OFF, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO,
AGAIN, PROBABLY ENHANCE CONDITIONS FOR OXIDATIONS THAT
MIGHT ENHANCE SUBSEQUENT MOBILIZATION OF MERCURY BY,
SAY, THE NEXT RAINFALL EVENT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THE
KIND OF HYPOTHESIS OFFERED IN THE NORTH CAROLINA WORK
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 57
THAT WAS MOTIVATED BY STUDIES IN SWEDEN THAT HAD
INDICATED THAT TO BE THE CASE.
ON THE OTHER HAND, IF WE MAINTAIN FLOODED
CONDITIONS FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME, PERHAPS WE'LL
ENHANCE METHYLATION. THERE'S EXTREMELY COMPLICATED
INTERPLAY BETWEEN THINGS DRIVING METHYLATION VERSUS
THOSE DRIVING BIOACCUMULATION, SO---
Q. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO THE FLORIDA EVERGLADES?
A. YEAH, AS A VISITOR. CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN,
PROBABLY SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS AGO, JUST AS I RECALL,
JUST DROVE AROUND THIS -- WAS IT TAMIAMI ROAD, WENT TO
BIG CYPRESS, THAT -- BUT NOT PROFESSIONALLY.
Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU WERE IN BIG CYPRESS?
A. WENT BIRD WATCHING. I MEAN, AS I RECALL,
THERE WAS A BOARDWALK. AND I WALKED AROUND ON THAT AND
HAD SOME BINOCULARS AND I'VE ALWAYS BEEN KIND OF A VERY
AMATEURISH BIRD WATCHER.
Q. HOW LONG WERE YOU OUT THERE?
A. SEVERAL HOURS, LIKE, AN AFTERNOON OR AN
EVENING, AS I RECALL.
Q. WHAT BIRDS DID YOU SEE?
A. YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY, NOT A WHOLE LOT.
MR. SAMS: YOU NEED TO PRODUCE
YOUR FIELD NOTES.
A. I THINK I RECALL SEEING SOME PROTHONOTARY
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 58
WARBLERS, AND SOME -- I BELIEVE I SAW SOME SNOW EGRETS
AND SOME AMERICAN EGRETS. AND I THINK I SAW LOUISIANA
HERON. I CAN'T -- A LOT OF KIND OF -- THAT'S KIND OF
MOSTLY WHEN I WAS INTERESTED IN SOME OF THE WADING
BIRDS. AND I THINK AT THE TIME OF THE YEAR THERE WERE
-- I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING ANY WATER FOWL. BUT I CAN'T
REMEMBER VERY CLEARLY AT ALL WHAT I SAW. THAT WAS NINE
-- EIGHT YEARS AGO, PROBABLY.
Q. DID YOU GO OUT INTO THE MARSH?
A. WELL, THE BIG -- THE BOARDWALK, AS I RECALL,
WENT THROUGH SOME MARSH, AND THEN IT ALSO WENT INTO THE
CYPRESS SWAMP, SO, YEAH. I WAS -- I WASN'T IMMERSED IN
THE MUCK MYSELF, BUT I WAS ON THIS LITTLE BOARDWALK
THAT WENT, KIND OF, OVER IT.
Q. DID YOU GO WITH A GROUP?
A. NO.
Q. JUST WENT BY YOURSELF?
A. YES.
Q. HOW'D YOU GET OUT THERE?
A. WELL, AS I RECALL, I -- I DROVE TO SOME PLACE
WHERE YOU PARKED. AND THEN YOU WALKED BACK A WAYS AND
CAME TO THIS BOARDWALK THAT WENT THROUGH THE MARSH AND
SWAMP.
Q. IS THAT THE ONLY TIME THAT YOU'VE VISITED THE
EVERGLADES?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 59
A. YES.
Q. HOW MANY DAYS WERE YOU OUT THERE?
A. I WAS IN FLORIDA FOR TWO DAYS. AND I
BASICALLY SPENT ONE OF THOSE TWO DAYS DRIVING AROUND --
JUST MOSTLY DRIVING IN THE AREA AND THEN TAKING THAT
WALK THROUGH THE BOARDWALK.
Q. WHAT TIME OF THE YEAR WERE YOU OUT THERE?
A. THAT WAS -- I THINK IT WAS, LIKE, MARCH --
MARCH OR APRIL. IT WAS, LIKE, EARLY SPRING.
Q. I'M GOING TO HAND YOU A DOCUMENT, AND ASK IF
YOU CAN IDENTIFY IT FOR THE RECORD.
A. THIS IS A GRANT PROPOSAL ENTITLED, "MECHANISMS
REGULATING MERCURY MOBILIZATION AND TRANSPORT INTO
SURFACE WATERS: NATURAL VS. AGRICULTURAL PLANT
COMMUNITIES IN SOUTH FLORIDA."
MR. SAMS: COUNSEL, BEFORE WE MARK THAT, I
NOTICE THAT THE PRIOR -- ONE OF THE PRIOR EXHIBITS
AND ALSO THIS EXHIBIT CONTAIN HIGHLIGHTING. I
DON'T MIND IF YOU WISH TO USE HIGHLIGHTED COPIES
TO SHOW THE WITNESS. BUT, IF WE COULD MAKE THE
RECORD REFLECT THAT THE HIGHLIGHTING IS NOT HIS, I
WOULD APPRECIATE IT.
MS. HOGAN: OKAY.
MR. SAMS: I TAKE IT THAT THE HIGHLIGHTING IS
NOT HIS; IS THAT CORRECT?
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 60
MS. HOGAN: THAT IS CORRECT. BUT I CAN GIVE
HIM A CLEAN COPY INSTEAD.
MR. SAMS: ALL RIGHT.
MS. HOGAN: I'LL GIVE YOU A CLEAN COPY.
OKAY. WE'LL MARK THAT AS THE NEXT EXHIBIT TO YOUR
DEPOSITION.
(THEREUPON, THE DOCUMENT REFERRED
TO BELOW WAS MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S
EXHIBIT NUMBER 4 - DR. Di GIULIO
DEPOSITION - FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
Q. (BY MS. HOGAN) CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THIS
GRANT APPLICATION?
A. YES. THIS IS A GRANT APPLICATION CURT WAS --
CURT RICHARDSON WAS PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR ON; I'M A
CO-PI ON. AS I RECALL, WE WROTE THIS PROBABLY IN LATE
'91; SUBMITTED IT TO USDA, I BELIEVE. RIGHT? IT WAS
NOT FUNDED. AND I THINK THE TITLE PRETTY WELL TELLS
YOU WHAT IT WAS ABOUT.
Q. THE MECHANISMS REGULATING MERCURY MOBILIZATION
AND TRANSPORT INTO SURFACE WATERS: NATURAL VERSUS
AGRICULTURAL PLANT COMMUNITIES IN FLORIDA -- SOUTH
FLORIDA?
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY. YOU'VE SIGNED IT AT THE BOTTOM.
A. UH-HUH (YES).
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 61
Q. RICHARD T. Di GIULIO, PI; "PI" MEANING?
A. WELL, I THINK IT HAD THE USDA NOMENCLATURE. I
HAVE -- INSTEAD OF PI, CO-PI, THEY HAVE PD FOR PROJECT
DIRECTOR VERSUS PI FOR PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR. I THINK
IT'S JUST THEIR NOMENCLATURE FOR WHAT IS MORE TYPICALLY
CALLED PI, CO-PI.
Q. SO, YOU WOULD BOTH DO THE SAME THING?
A. WELL, NO. I MEAN, NO, THAT -- ALL I'M GETTING
AT IS THAT DR. RICHARDSON WAS PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR; I
WAS CO-PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR, JUST LIKE ON THE -- MOST
GRANTING AGENCIES REQUIRE THAT ONE PERSON BE ULTIMATELY
RESPONSIBLE, AND THEY'RE THE PI. BUT THEN WE'D HAVE
DIFFERENT COMPONENTS. AND IN THIS CONTEXT I WAS GOING
TO LARGELY DO A LOT OF THE WORK ON LOOKING AT
BIOACCUMULATION AND SO FORTH.
Q. OKAY. IT WAS -- IT'S DATED JANUARY 13, 1992?
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR THE SUBMISSION OF THE
GRANT---
A. WELL, CURT WAS IN---
Q. ---APPLICATION?
A. ---CURT WAS ALREADY, AT THAT TIME, INVOLVED IN
THE EUTROPHIC RESEARCH THAT HE'S CONTINUING WITH. AND
WE WERE BOTH AWARE THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN
ABOUT MERCURY AND SOMETHING WE BOTH HAD AN INTEREST IN.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 62
I HAD DONE THE PREVIOUS WORK IN NORTH CAROLINA THAT
SEEMED TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF BE HIGHLY RELEVANT TO THIS
STUDY. SO, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING STUDY
TO DO AND TO TRY TO COMPARE PATTERNS OF MERCURY
MOBILIZATION AND ACCUMULATION IN NATURAL WETLAND
COMMUNITIES VERSUS AGRICULTURAL AREAS. AND HE WAS
ALREADY, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY WITH HIS PHOSPHORUS
STUDIES -- IT WOULD MAKE THE LOGISTICS OF IT MUCH
EASIER BECAUSE HE ALREADY HAD SAMPLING STATIONS AND SO
FORTH. SO, WE WERE TRYING TO TAKE KIND OF ADVANTAGE OF
HIS ACTIVITIES, HIS ONGOING RESEARCH ACTIVITIES WITH
OUR COMBINED INTEREST AND EXPERTISE IN MERCURY.
Q. HOW LONG OF A -- WAS THIS STUDY TO HAVE TAKEN
TO COMPLETE?
A. TWO -- IT SAYS TWO YEARS, YEAH.
Q. OKAY. WHAT WAS YOUR INPUT INTO THE SUBMISSION
OF THIS GRANT APPLICATION?
A. WELL, I HELPED WRITE IT AND HELPED FORMULATE
THE HYPOTHESES. I MEAN IT WAS PRETTY MUCH A JOINT
EFFORT AMONG CURT AND I, SOME GRADUATE STUDENTS AT THE
TIME. I THINK WE ALL CONTRIBUTED. IT'D BE HARD FOR ME
TO GO LINE-BY-LINE AND SAY WHO DID THIS OR THAT. BUT
IT WAS, I'D SAY, PRETTY MUCH A REASONABLE COLLECTIVE
EFFORT. CURT KNOWS FAR MORE ABOUT -- HE KNEW FAR MORE
ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF THE AREA, ABOUT THE PLANT
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 63
COMMUNITIES, THE PLANT DYNAMIC IMPACTS. I KNEW MORE
ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF MERCURY, BIOACCUMULATION,
FRACTIONATION AND SOILS ANALYSIS.
Q. DID YOU REVIEW THE GRANT APPLICATION PRIOR TO
ITS SUBMISSION TO THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF
AGRICULTURE?
A. DID I REVIEW IT?
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. WELL, YEAH. WE READ OVER IT, SURE.
Q. OKAY.
A. WE WROTE IT.
Q. SO, IT EXPRESSES YOUR OPINIONS?
A. WELL, I DON'T SEE A GRANT PROPOSAL AS AN
OPINION; IT'S A PROPOSED STUDY. YEAH, BUT I MEAN I
WOULDN'T -- I'LL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT, SURE.
Q. OKAY.
MS. HOGAN: HAVE WE ALREADY MARKED IT AS
AN EXHIBIT? YES. OKAY. IT'S EXHIBIT FOUR?
WITNESS: OH, YEAH, UH-HUH (YES).
MS. HOGAN: OKAY.
Q. (BY MS. HOGAN) CAN YOU TURN TO PAGE 3?
A. 30?
Q. 3.
A. 3.
Q. 3.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 64
A. OKAY.
Q. OKAY. IT SAYS "PROJECT SUMMARY."
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. IN PARAGRAPH TWO IT SAYS -- YOU SEE WHERE I
AM?
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY. IT SAYS, "WE POSTULATE THAT
AGRICULTURAL PRACTICES ARE AFFECTING THE REDOX STATUS
OF THE SOILS, WHICH IN TURN AFFECTS THE UPTAKE AND
RELEASE OF Hg [mercury] BY PLANTS."
A. YEAH.
Q. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT?
A. YEAH.
Q. OKAY. AND THEN WHAT IS THE BASIS FOR THAT
OPINION -- OR THAT STATEMENT?
MR. SAMS: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF
THE QUESTION.
A. I'M SORRY?
Q. (BY MS. HOGAN) WHAT IS THE BASIS OF THAT
STATEMENT? WHY DID YOU POSTULATE THAT AGRICULTURAL
PRACTICES WERE AFFECTING THE REDOX STATUS OF THE SOILS,
WHICH IN TURN WOULD AFFECT THE UPTAKE AND RELEASE OF
MERCURY BY PLANTS?
A. WELL, THE -- A REASONABLE HYPOTHESIS -- A
REASONABLE TESTABLE HYPOTHESIS WOULD BE THAT AS -- IF
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 65
YOU TOOK WETLAND SOILS AND DRAINED THEM AND CONVERTED
THEM INTO AGRICULTURAL SOILS, THAT THAT WOULD ALTER
REDOX CONDITIONS OF THE SOIL THAT MIGHT AFFECT MERCURY
MOBILIZATION.
Q. WHY?
A. WELL, AS YOU -- IF YOU -- AGAIN, ALONG THE
SAME LINES OF THE NORTH CAROLINA STUDY A REASONABLE
HYPOTHESIS WOULD BE THAT, IF YOU TAKE SOILS THAT HAVE
BEEN CONTINUALLY FLOODED AND DRY THEM OUT, THAT THAT
MIGHT OXIDIZE THOSE SURFACES AND ENHANCE RELEASE OF
MERCURY UPON FOLLOW -- YOU KNOW, SUBSEQUENT RAIN EVENTS
AND SO FORTH.
Q. OKAY. YOU MENTION SPECIFICALLY AGRICULTURAL
PRACTICES; WHAT AGRICULTURAL PRACTICES WERE YOU
REFERRING TO?
A. WELL, I THINK THE, YOU KNOW, MAIN ONES WOULD
BE -- I'M NOT A FARMER, BUT, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE TAKING
A FLOODED SOIL AND MAKING IT TILLABLE BY DRAINAGE. AND
THEN THE VARIOUS ACTIVITIES THAT WOULD UNCOVER -- YOU
KNOW, RID THIS -- THE AREA OF NATURAL VEGETATION, WOULD
EXPOSE SOILS TO DIRECT SUNLIGHT AND SO FORTH, RAINFALL,
DRYING CONDITIONS.
Q. WERE YOU REFERRING TO THE ADDITION OF
CHEMICALS TO THE SOIL?
A. NO, ACTUALLY, WE WEREN'T. WE WEREN'T AT ALL.
DR. Di GIULIO VOLUME I PAGE 66
IN THIS STUDY WE WEREN'T ADDRESSING -- I'M TRY -- I
DON'T RECALL THAT WE ADDRESSED, LIKE, FERTILIZER AT
ALL. AND WE CERTAINLY WEREN'T ADDRESSING PESTICIDES.
Q. OKAY.
A. WE WERE REALLY INTERESTED IN ACTUALLY WHAT --
WHAT'S THE CHANGES IN SOIL CHEMICAL PROCESSES.
Q. OKAY. DOWN AT THE BOTTOM, THE LAST
PARAGRAPH---
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. ---IT SAYS, "KNOWLEDGE OBTAINED FROM THESE
STUDIES WILL CONTRIBUTE SIGNIFICANTLY TO OUR
UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIOGEOCHEMIS