STATE OF FLORIDA

DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS

SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE

OF FLORIDA, a Florida Agricultural

Cooperative Marketing Association,

ROTH FARMS, INC., and

WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC.,

-and- CASE NOS. 92-3038

FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.; 92-3039

UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; 92-3040

and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC.,

-and-

FLORIDA FRUIT and VEGETABLE

ASSOCIATION, LEWIS POPE FARMS,

W. E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC.,

and HUNDLEY FARMS, INC.,

Petitioners,

-vs-

SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT

DISTRICT, an Agency of the State

of Florida,

Respondent,

-and-

MICCOSUKEE TRIBE OF INDIANS OF

FLORIDA, the UNITED STATE OF

AMERICA, and FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF

ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, the

FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION, the

FLORIDA AUDUBON SOCIETY, and the

SIERRA CLUB,

Intervenors.

______________________________/

THE DEPOSITION OF: GEORGE M. COLE

TAKEN AT THE INSTANCE OF: Attorneys for United States

DATE: December 7, 1992

TIME: Commenced at 9:00 a.m.

Concluded at 10:30 a.m.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

100 Salem Court

Tallahassee, Florida 32301

(904) 878-2221

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

(TITLE PAGE CONTINUED:)

LOCATION: U.S. Attorney's Office

315 South Calhoun Street

Suite 510

Tallahassee, Florida

REPORTED BY: CAROLYN RANKINE, RPR, CP

Notary Public in and for the

State of Florida at Large

* * *

APPEARANCES:

REPRESENTING SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE:

DONNA STINSON, ESQ.

Hopping Boyd Green & Sams

123 South Calhoun Street

Tallahassee, Florida 32301

REPRESENTING THE RESPONDENT-INTERVENOR:

THOMAS A. WATTS-FITZGERALD, ESQ.

Assistant United States Attorneys

Southern District of Florida

155 South Miami Avenue

Miami, Florida 33130

* * *

I N D E X

WITNESS PAGE

GEORGE M. COLE

Direct Examination by Mr. FitzGerald 3

EXHIBITS:

Number

1 Notice

2 Resume

(Exhibits marked prior to deposition.)

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 47

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 S T I P U L A T I O N S

2 The following deposition of GEORGE M. COLE was

3 taken on oral examination, pursuant to notice, for purposes

4 of discovery, for use as evidence, and for such other uses

5 and purposes as may be permitted by the applicable and

6 governing rules. All objections except as to the form of

7 the question are reserved until the final hearing in this

8 cause; and reading and signing is not waived.

9 * * *

10 Thereupon,

11 GEORGE M. COLE

12 was called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was

13 examined and testified as follows:

14 DIRECT EXAMINATION

15 BY MR. FITZGERALD:

16 Q Good morning, Mr. Cole. I'm Tom FitzGerald

17 with the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of

18 Florida located in Miami, and I actually signed the notice

19 of the depo for you.

20 Have you been deposed before, sir?

21 A Yes, sir, I have.

22 Q How many times?

23 A Many dozens. I don't have a precise count.

24 Q I'll go through the preliminaries very quickly

25 because you probably recall them. If at any time during

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 the deposition you'd like to take a break, please, just let

2 me know and we can knock off. Based on what I've been

3 advised by counsel and in review of the documentation, I

4 suspect we'll only be about a half day at most because it's

5 my understanding you have not reached final opinions and

6 conclusions as yet.

7 If during the course of the deposition any of

8 the questions I ask are unclear, and I've been told I have

9 a habit of doing that, which may be exacerbated by the fact

10 that your expertise in a fairly obscure area to the general

11 public, then, please, just tell me that you don't

12 understand or ask for clarification if you don't understand

13 what I'm really asking. If at any time objections are

14 raised by counsel to the questions, short of a direction

15 for you not to respond, we'll try to work that out, and

16 then, of course, you can go ahead and answer the question.

17 Have you qualified as an expert witness in

18 court in the past?

19 A Yes, sir, I have.

20 Q Approximately how many occasions?

21 A Oh, a couple dozen times probably.

22 Q Was that in state or federal court?

23 A Both.

24 Q With regard to federal court, what were your

25 designated areas of expertise for which you were found to

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 be competent to testify by the court?

2 A One instance coastal and geodetic surveys;

3 other instance has been maritime boundaries, generally, in

4 these areas such as these.

5 Q Did any of the areas in federal court for

6 which you were found to be an expert touch on photographic

7 interpretation?

8 A No, sir.

9 Q How about state system?

10 A I've been qualified in a number of different

11 areas within the surveying, and engineering, and mapping

12 categories.

13 Q Same question as earlier: any photo imagery

14 interpretive work or collation work involved in those?

15 A Yes, sir. Many of these photogrammetry have

16 been used as a tool in the project involved with those.

17 Q Have you ever testified before on behalf of --

18 or worked on behalf of the law firm Hopping Boyd & Green?

19 A I think I worked for them a couple of cases.

20 To my recollection, I have not testified for them.

21 Q Do you recall when the last instance was that

22 you worked with the firm?

23 A The last one I can recall was involving a

24 small lake in Central Florida that was to have a -- there

25 was an expressway going through it or something like this.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 I had a fairly obscure part, as usual, dealing with the

2 ordinary high-water line of the small lake.

3 Q Did that have to do with the conversion of

4 submerged lands claims to the state and ownership issues?

5 A Yes, that's correct.

6 Q When were you first contacted with regard to

7 working on the present case?

8 A Approximately two or three months ago, so it

9 would have been in the fall of this year, 1992.

10 Q Who actually initiated that contact?

11 A I was originally contacted by Dr. Tom Herbert.

12 Q You have worked with Dr. Herbert in the past?

13 A Yes, sir, we've worked on a number of various

14 cases.

15 Q What type of projects have you worked on with

16 Mr. Herbert's company?

17 A I've worked on location of drilling sites for

18 permits, you know, for drilling, both on land as well as

19 offshore in drilling sites; locating -- doing mean

20 high-water line surveys of one instance at a docking for a

21 submerged land type, division of royalties type situation,

22 prepared photographs of various, I guess, geophysical tract

23 lines, more or less, through various areas, different types

24 of surveys, and just generally the things in the surveying,

25 photogrammetry, and mapping type of areas.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Q If you know, was Dr. Herbert's client in those

2 instances Shell Western?

3 A In one instance I recall it was Shell Western.

4 Q How about Getty?

5 A Getty, yes, sir. I believe a case -- a couple

6 of tasks dealing with Pensacola Bay. You may recall the

7 drilling rig that was drilled in Pensacola Bay.

8 Q Did you work with Dr. Herbert at all on any of

9 the projects he did for the Miccosukee Tribe of Indians,

10 Miccosukee Tribe of Florida?

11 A I subdivided a public lands township for the

12 Miccosukee Tribe, Dr. Herbert was involved with that.

13 Q Where was that located?

14 A Right at the Broward-Collier county line.

15 Right at the northern extremes of the Miccosukee Tribe's

16 Reservation.

17 Q When was that?

18 A Approximately three years ago.

19 Q And had Dr. Herbert brought you in to help him

20 on that as well?

21 A He contacted regarding performing the survey,

22 yes, sir.

23 Q The drilling sites that you were locating and

24 the seismic tracts, were those in the water conservation

25 areas?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A Not to my recollection. I recall just

2 doing -- preparing a series of photographs of a -- I'm not

3 sure it was seismic. I believe it was for geophysical.

4 I'm not sure what type of geophysical exploration, though.

5 It was on the -- towards the West Coast of Florida.

6 Q Was any of the work connected with Big

7 Cypress, our national preserve?

8 A I don't believe so.

9 Q Does the name Raccoon Point strike a familiar

10 note?

11 A No, sir.

12 Q After your initial contact with Dr. Herbert,

13 did you enter into a formal contract to work on the case?

14 A No, sir; I had no contract per se. Just as a

15 time and materials type situation.

16 Q And that's with Dr. Herbert?

17 A No, sir. With the law firm of Hopping Boyd.

18 Q And if it's not a trade secret, what are the

19 time and materials fees that you charge for a case like

20 this?

21 A For my time, I charge $95 an hour.

22 Q Do you have an estimate of what it's going to

23 cost for your entire run of work?

24 A I really don't know what all I'm going to be

25 doing yet, to tell you the truth. I have very little

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 involvement to date.

2 Q We'll get to that.

3 A Okay. You know, I've been -- a couple of

4 things I've been asked to do that I haven't had an

5 opportunity to do yet.

6 Q What work, if any, have you done in, if you

7 understand the term, the Everglades Protection Area.

8 A You need to clarify the geographic --

9 Q Do you understand that term as it's used in

10 the Marjorie Stoneman Douglas Everglades Protection Act?

11 A I have a visual here that I think referred to

12 it. It was a FAX'd to me on Thursday, and it had a certain

13 color code that is defined as the Everglades Protection

14 Area, is this the area you're referring to.

15 Q Yes. Essentially, take for the purposes of

16 this deposition the Everglades Protection Area is comprised

17 of Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge, the water

18 conversation areas established by the State of Florida

19 south of Lake Okeechobee and west of what's referred to as

20 the Coastal Levy in the Central and South Florida flood

21 control project, and Everglades National Park, the

22 Everglades Protection Area. Have you done any work in the

23 past in the those areas?

24 A I'm not quite certain how the Miccosukee

25 Reservation relates to that, but --

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Q Let me --

2 A Sure.

3 Q -- tell you as opposed to testifying. Assume

4 that the Miccosukee Reservation in fact is within the water

5 conservation area.

6 A I did, indeed, perform -- I subdivided, you

7 know, the survey of a township on the indian reservation,

8 conventional survey, except I did use satellite positioning

9 in lieu of conventional type surveying through there to

10 breakdown and perform mathematical analysis of the location

11 of the sections, and then monumented one section three

12 years ago.

13 I've done some surveys on the West Coast of

14 Florida, but I can't tell from this -- with the scale of

15 this map it may be on the fringes of it. It would be

16 fairly close on the west coast near Naples, Florida, or

17 Marco Island, Florida.

18 Q In Collier County?

19 A Collier County, yes, sir.

20 Q That's unlikely it would be in it.

21 A Okay.

22 Q When you did the township subdivision and

23 monumenting for the Miccosukee Indian Tribe, were you using

24 GPS system?

25 A That's correct.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Q Are you familiar with the Everglades

2 Agricultural Area?

3 A Only through this same FAX that I received --

4 no; I guess it doesn't show that area. I've heard the

5 term, but Ms. Stinson is --

6 Q This area here.

7 A This says EAA regulated area, is that it?

8 Q Just for the record, so people have a feel of

9 what we're looking at later, you're looking at page 7, an

10 excerpt from the planning document, and it's the Everglades

11 SWIM Plan approved by the board of the South Florida Water

12 Management District, the planning document at page 7, which

13 shows the Everglades SWIM Plan planning district,

14 basically, figure number 1. The crosshatch area at the top

15 would be the Everglades Agricultural Area as that's defined

16 for purposes of this case, Mr. Cole. Have you ever done

17 any work in that area? It's basically south and east of

18 Lake Okeechobee. The sugar cane and vegetable farm lands.

19 A To my recollection, I've done no work other

20 than work I'm sure we'll discuss later for this particular

21 case.

22 Q Other than this case, you're not familiar?

23 A No, sir.

24 Q How long does your relationship with

25 Dr. Herbert's firm go back?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A I guess I first met Dr. Herbert about 1975.

2 At that time he was staff director of Senate National

3 Resources Committee, and I'm not sure exactly when he went

4 in private practice, but we've had various associations

5 ever since that time.

6 Q Your firm is Florida Engineering Services?

7 A That's correct.

8 Q Haw large is the firm?

9 A Very small. It's about five people.

10 Q What's the business organization of the firm?

11 A It's a corporation registered in Florida and

12 Mississippi. It's partially owned by myself with the

13 majority of the stock owned by the firm of Keith & Schnars,

14 a large engineering firm out of Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

15 Q Was Florida Engineering Services at one time a

16 what they call a branch or division of Keith & Schnars?

17 A No, sir. We've always been a separate

18 corporation. We founded it in 1981 and as a separate

19 corporation.

20 Q How did they come to hold a portion of the

21 stock?

22 A I was interested in going into private

23 practice, I was with the State of Florida, and Keith &

24 Schnars was interested in having an office in Tallahassee,

25 so this -- we just have acted as a subsidiary of that firm

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 since then.

2 Q And what percentage of the stock do they own?

3 A Eighty percent.

4 Q And that is the sole class of stock, just one

5 outstanding class?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q What percentage of the firm do you own?

8 A Twenty.

9 Q So everyone but for you at the firm is simply

10 an employee. They don't share any ownership?

11 A That is correct, yes, sir.

12 Q What involvement on the day-to-day basis does

13 Keith & Schnars exercise over the firm and its operations?

14 A None.

15 Q Are projects that you're going to embark upon

16 cleared in any way with Keith & Schnars?

17 A No, sir.

18 Q Is there any consultation between your firm

19 and other branches of Keith & Schnars with regard to

20 projects that they're engaged in?

21 A No, sir. Occasionally, we do joint marketing

22 efforts, and I assist them on projects that are within my

23 specialty. If I'm working in South Florida, I utilize

24 their field forces to assist me in projects down there.

25 Q Do you know Thomas Jennings?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A Yes, sir.

2 Q How do you know him?

3 A He's an employee of Keith & Schnars, the

4 Lakeland division.

5 Q Were you aware that he's been retained, and

6 Keith & Schnars has been retained by another party in this

7 case?

8 A No, sir.

9 Q You've had no discussions with Mr. Jennings

10 involving his --

11 A No, sir. We are fairly autonomous up here.

12 Q What is your role within the firm here as

13 president and chief minority stockholder?

14 A I guess both directing both the administrative

15 aspects of the firm and technical aspects.

16 Q The four or five employees that work under

17 you, do they have particular areas of responsibility, or

18 are they grouped according to technical specialty?

19 A Well, there's one secretary that assists in

20 handling the administrative aspects, the remainder of those

21 are people that work both in the field and in computer

22 processing of the resulting data.

23 Q What are the technical backgrounds of the

24 other four, exclusive of the secretary?

25 A They're either college students, you know,

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 that are still working towards their degree, or one has a

2 degree in, I believe, chemistry. They're primarily

3 surveying and mapping type personnel, CAD type people.

4 Q Other than the surveying typographical type

5 work that your firm does, do you do any work in the area of

6 water quality analysis?

7 A No; not in house. More of the spatial

8 aspects. We do a small amount of civil engineering

9 primarily associated with hydrology, storm water. Most of

10 our work, though, is in surveying and mapping.

11 Q In the area of storm water, do you engage in

12 consulting work for the preparation of storm water

13 management permits for state agencies?

14 A We have. Certainly not a large percentage of

15 our business, but we have, yes, sir.

16 Q From that or other work, do you have any

17 special knowledge or familiarity with the statutes dealing

18 with water quality requirements within the State of

19 Florida?

20 A Not a continuing knowledge. I just, you know,

21 refresh my mind each time I get involved with such a thing.

22 Q Are you familiar with the terms Outstanding

23 Florida Waters or Class III Florida Waters?

24 A I'm familiar with the terms, yes, sir.

25 Q Do you deal with those issues on any

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 significant basis at your firm?

2 A Not on a large scale basis; no, sir.

3 Q Can you tell me just, you know, in sort of

4 broad terms what the gross or net revenue of your company

5 is in a given year, average year?

6 A Between 200 and 300,000 a year.

7 Q When your firm is retained on a project such

8 as this or any other projects, do you delegate supervisory

9 responsibility for individual projects or do you retain

10 that yourself?

11 A As small as we are, I retain that myself.

12 Q On this project other than yourself, how many

13 of your employees, exclusive of the secretarial functions,

14 would work directly on the project?

15 A Either one or two primarily in the graphic,

16 you know, working in the photo lab or the graphics, things

17 of this nature.

18 Q Would that depend, you know, whomever you

19 chose to do that, would that simply depend on who was

20 available at a given time, or do you assign people --

21 A Depends on what our assignment is to be.

22 Q When you were first contacted by Dr. Herbert

23 back in the Fall of '92 -- I guess this is still,

24 technically, the Fall of '92 -- what did he give you to

25 understand what the nature of the work he was interested in

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 having Florida Engineering Services perform?

2 A Originally it was just to do some photographic

3 and photogrammetric work in relation to the project.

4 Q Photographic we probably all understand. Can

5 you just clarify for the record what you mean by

6 photogrammetric?

7 A Making quantitative -- or measurements off of

8 photographs.

9 Q If I can invite your attention to what's been

10 marked as Exhibit 2 for this hearing, which is a copy of

11 your resume, if you could take a moment and go through

12 that. I'd just like to start to make sure that it's up to

13 date and nothing you consider of significance has occurred

14 since that was put together.

15 A Yes, sir, I believe this is up to date.

16 Q Your resume indicates that at the graduate

17 level you've received some training in law. What precisely

18 was the nature that training.

19 A I've taken courses in coastal law at Florida

20 State, and of business law, and a number of short seminars,

21 and various -- primarily dealing with water boundaries,

22 things of this nature.

23 Q You know that the University of Miami Law

24 School has the real experts on coastal --

25 A I understand that, yes, sir.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 I used to be a great disciple of -- you know,

2 one of my heroes, the late Dean Malone from the University

3 of Florida, so I somewhat thought that he was an expert in

4 his time.

5 Q There's also an indication of training in

6 various survey courses or some sort at the postgraduate

7 level, what would that have been?

8 A These would have been short courses conducted

9 by various educational institutions.

10 Q Continuing education?

11 A Yes, sir.

12 Q And would the same thing be true of the

13 professional associations, you list that they hold seminars

14 and training sessions?

15 A Yes, sir. I give a number of seminars around

16 the country each year for different professional

17 associations.

18 Q Was any of that postgraduate training or

19 continuing education work directly applicable to

20 photogrammetric or photo imagery work in mixed marsh areas

21 such as the Everglades?

22 A I've attended seminars dealing with

23 photogrammetric techniques, but none of them have been

24 specifically directed to such areas as that; no, sir.

25 Q Has most of your work in fact been directed

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 more at maritime boundary work and coastal hydrology?

2 A The largest percentage of it probably has,

3 yes, sir.

4 Q I note from your resume that you have

5 completed your course work for your Masters?

6 A Yes, sir.

7 Q And that's Masters in geography?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q Have you submitted your thesis yet?

10 A No, sir. I'm hoping I'm doing so next

11 semester.

12 Q Have you selected the topic?

13 A Tentatively -- I haven't received approval on

14 it, but dealing with geographic variations in tidal data in

15 the State of Florida.

16 Q So you would expect your Masters to be awarded

17 in approximately a year to a year and a half?

18 A Yes, sir, depending on the thesis process.

19 Q Are you familiar with the designations

20 submitted by counsel on October 26th or within a day or two

21 of that, that listed the areas in which you would likely

22 render testimony?

23 A No, sir; I'm not.

24 Q Has any of your work to date dealt with the

25 use of photo imagery to develop testimony on historical

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 trends?

2 A Yes, sir.

3 Q What type of historical trends are you

4 analyzing?

5 A One example I can think of is trends in

6 coastal boundaries and development of water bodies.

7 Q When you do that, what methodology do you

8 employ to develop a trend analysis or historical analysis

9 of the boundaries of the water bodies?

10 A Primarily cartographic type approach by

11 comparing lines that have been either derived from

12 photography or have been created on historic surveys of the

13 area.

14 Q When you rely on a historical materials, do

15 you somehow have to geographically rectify the various

16 photos that might come from separate surveys?

17 A Oh, yes, sir. Because, obviously, all the

18 documentation was more than likely to be on different

19 scales as well as if it's photographic evidence there can

20 be tilt and other types of displacements.

21 Q When I use the term "rectify," that's a term

22 of art in your business?

23 A Yes, sir.

24 Q Can you, for the record, explain what's meant

25 by that? Your the first witness who knew what it meant

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 when I used it, so this is important.

2 A In the photographic sense, rectification is to

3 correct photographic image for tilt and scale distortions

4 due to either angle of the camera, things of this nature.

5 Q When you have done that, historically, have

6 you ever encountered instances where historical

7 photographic runs from whatever sort, either archives or

8 agricultural services operation out in the midwest were not

9 of sufficient quality to aid you in your work?

10 A It depends on the scale of it. Obviously,

11 almost any photograph has a certain quality, but it can

12 only be used up to a certain scale. You know, if taken

13 way, way high up in the atmosphere, you cannot expect to

14 get high resolution type information out of this. So I

15 would never say none of it is worthless, but it can only be

16 taken to a certain scale.

17 Q In the work you've done on the historical

18 developments of water bodies, are you essentially looking

19 at water line limitations in those cases or were you?

20 A What do you mean by water line limitation.

21 Q I'm trying to determine high water, mean

22 water, that sort of thing for land use.

23 A Usually you use a certain type of shore line

24 which you would associate with a certain type of datum,

25 yes, sir.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Q Lakes, of course, generally don't have tidal

2 fluctuations, so when you're dealing with a lake, what are

3 you looking at in those cases?

4 A The legal boundary, of course, at least in

5 Florida, for most lakes is considered to be the ordinary

6 high-water line. So if that was your particular area of

7 interest, you would look for evidence of the ordinary

8 high-water line.

9 Q In addition to the photo imagery that may be

10 available, what hydrologic data do you customarily use to

11 assist you in determining what is a normal high-water line

12 in any given year?

13 A I've used quite frequently gauging data

14 prepared -- or gathered by the U.S. Geological Survey as

15 well as gauging data in tidal areas gathered by U.S. Coast

16 and Geodetic Survey, National Ocean Service, and of course

17 data gathered by our own firm.

18 Q In internal lakes that aren't significant

19 enough to have a gauging station, how do you make up for

20 the lack of that data?

21 A There is strictly a matter of examining

22 physical phenomena that may be indicative of long-standing

23 water.

24 Q On scene inspection?

25 A Yes, sir.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Q In the work that you have done that we've been

2 discussing, has any of that ever involved analysis of

3 vegetative growth?

4 A My own work?

5 Q Yes.

6 A Not so much as species delineation, but as

7 using the general signature of the vegetation for

8 indication of high water, standing water, and so forth.

9 Q Sir, I'm not sure I understand the distinction

10 that you're drawing between species delineation and using

11 growth to delineate high water.

12 A For instance, in cases dealing with coastal

13 boundaries, the mean high-water line would be the -- in

14 Florida -- the prevailing -- the boundary. In many cases,

15 in Florida, the mean high-water line can be found up in the

16 vegetation, marshes with different types of vegetation,

17 Juncus, different things like that. So from my

18 perspective, I don't really care what species is there, but

19 if you can derive a signature that would indicate the water

20 frequently gets up to that point -- and there's a

21 difference in the signature. It may indeed be caused by

22 different species, or may be caused by variations in the

23 robustness of the vegetation due to, you know, more

24 frequent budding, more nutrients, or things like that. But

25 I have done determinations using those sorts of criteria.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Generally the signature, the photographic signature that

2 the vegetation gives off.

3 Q How do you determine what you're looking at,

4 what species? For example, in a coastal area some species

5 are more salt tolerant than others.

6 A Yes. I don't -- like I said, I have not and

7 don't care what species they are. Just by a lot of ground

8 truthing you can associate a certain line that you're

9 attempting to trace with a certain signature.

10 Q How do you ground truth something that was

11 shot in 1940, for example?

12 A Well, you can't except by comparing where the

13 line is today, of course, unless there are historic surveys

14 that you can use for ground truthing.

15 Q In comparing a vegetative pattern or signature

16 on a recent aerial shoot with one that's historical, where

17 you don't have extensive ground truthing data for the

18 historical, do you feel comfortable assuming or determining

19 from tonal differences in a black and white projection that

20 you're looking at the same type of vegetation to analyze

21 trends?

22 A In certain situations, that would be the case

23 (1) if there's been insignificant change in water level, no

24 significant changes in land use, or the vegetation, you

25 could certainly make generalizations from that. You'd have

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 to do so guardedly, of course.

2 Q What is your understanding of what your role

3 as an expert witness in this case is?

4 A To date I've been contacted, as I've testified

5 earlier here, (1) about making some photographs, possibly

6 rectified the photographs to compare historic views of the

7 same area, and possibly making some measurements off of

8 these of different areas. More recently I've been asked to

9 collect any legal descriptions that are used by the water

10 management district and the Fish and Wildlife Service of

11 the Loxahatchee Preserve or a/k/a Conservation Area Number

12 1, I think it's called, and just analyze these descriptions

13 and compare them. Other than that, that's all I know.

14 Q Has anyone asked you to conduct an analysis of

15 the boundaries on the south and southwest of Loxahatchee

16 National Wildlife Refuge to determine the precise boundary

17 location.

18 A On the ground you mean?

19 Q No. From the available legal descriptions.

20 A From available legal descriptions, yes, I have

21 been asked to prepare a plot using the deeds that have been

22 provided to me by the Fish and Wildlife Service.

23 Q Do you know for what purpose the boundary plot

24 is being prepared?

25 A No, sir. I have been asked to compare that

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 boundary with that described by the water management

2 district.

3 Q So in the data you're collecting, then, you're

4 preparing a boundary a la the Fish and Wildlife Service

5 view and comparing it to the South Florida Water Management

6 District's similarly constructed or published version of

7 the limits of their --

8 A Yes, sir.

9 Q In doing that, have you determined whether,

10 over the course of time, there have been alterations of the

11 boundary first established when Loxahatchee or the water

12 conservation area was set aside for wildlife purposes?

13 A Yes, sir. Apparently, I haven't done a

14 complete, exhaustive analysis, just cursory analysis. It

15 appears to have been purchased or acquired at different

16 times.

17 Q Based on your background, can you tell me

18 what, in Florida, would be the state's view of the

19 ownership of canals maintained by a state agency?

20 A Depends on the title history of that

21 particular piece of land. If it was original private land,

22 and -- you know, and it was dredged, it certainly could

23 be -- there could be a public easement over there, but the

24 underlying fee ownership of the underlying land would not

25 have change unless the state has specifically acquired it

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 by one means or another.

2 Q In performing the work you have been asked to

3 do that you've just described, what will be your

4 methodology or approach to developing and acquiring the

5 data?

6 A Well, the data most of it has been acquired

7 already. We called the water management district and asked

8 for their description, and we've called Fish and Wildlife

9 Service and asked for theirs. And I believe you received

10 that the last couple of days, that was data we're talking

11 about.

12 Q Other than the materials related to the

13 Loxahatchee, which were provided by counsel by Fed Ex, no

14 date -- on 3 December '92, do you have any other materials

15 related to your work thus far?

16 A No. Other than these graphics that you

17 received, you took the numbers down earlier in this

18 session.

19 Q Those are the seven charts, one of which is a

20 two-sheet chart of the Loxahatchee --

21 A Yes, sir.

22 Q -- and the rest being blueprint plans from the

23 Corps of Engineers that reflect portions the South Florida

24 Flood Control Project?

25 A Yes, sir, that's all the data I have for this

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 project.

2 Q Now, that addresses the boundary plots that

3 you're working on, how about the preparation of photo

4 imagery exhibits or analysis of photo imagery, what's being

5 done to move that process along?

6 A I have not received any of the photographic

7 data yet. I'm to be provided that by the client.

8 Q Whom do you expect to provide that to you?

9 A Dr. Herbert, I understand, is in the process

10 of acquiring all these negatives or film positives of the

11 various photography that we're to use.

12 Q In instances where he has acquired the

13 physical photo, the photo print, vice the negative, will

14 that affect how you handle the particular item of data?

15 A Yes. For photographic reproduction, we can

16 use film positive or a negative. From a film positive we

17 can, of course, make a duplicate negative. But the other

18 would be restricted to analyzing, if it came in that

19 format. I don't know how it's going to come. We would be

20 restricted into analyzing it in a format to which it is

21 currently in.

22 Q In your experience, do historical photo

23 shoots, aerial photo shoots, have the same accuracy in

24 terms of geographic positioning or monument reference

25 accuracy as more recent photo shoots?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A I don't know if precision is the correct word.

2 They both, you know, would have the same precision, I would

3 think, unless there's differences in techniques -- of the

4 actual photographic techniques, differences in crystal

5 formation of the film, or things of that nature which would

6 possibly change the resolution of it. But the precision as

7 far as geographic precision would be determined by how you

8 could control or locate where that photograph was on the

9 ground, and that is external to the photographic process

10 itself.

11 Q How do you go about that process?

12 A Be relating it to points that you can identify

13 on the photograph to which you can assign a specific

14 geographic position and possibly elevation.

15 Q In instances where the photo you're presented

16 has no prominent geographic features, no man-made objects,

17 and consists only of an undistinguished piece of mixed

18 marsh, how do you go about that?

19 A It would be difficult to do, so you would hope

20 that there would be some features that had certain trends

21 at which you could match with subsequent photography of the

22 same area, or match with field surveys of the area.

23 Q Were you aware that even what are referred to

24 as tree islands or hammock structures in the Everglades

25 migrate?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A They certainly may. I'm not -- I haven't done

2 any examination of whether or not there -- as to the

3 migratory patterns of the tree islands.

4 Q When a survey aircraft flies a particular

5 strip, of course, it takes photos at a given interval,

6 right?

7 A Yes, sir.

8 Q Based on speed and other criteria.

9 If you have that strip, and the first photo in

10 the strip starts at a known object, or object whose

11 position can be fairly precisely located, how far can the

12 aircraft fly before the accuracy of extrapolating positions

13 becomes questionable?

14 A Generally, that's what I usually refer to as

15 bridging. Generally, it depends on the techniques that

16 you're using. You can go a number of different models,

17 though, stereoscopic models that you can bridge over. Here

18 again, it depends on many factors: the height of it, and

19 the techniques that you use to bridge from one photograph

20 to the next, and so forth.

21 Q In areas where there are no ready reference of

22 known position, can you factor into your analysis the

23 circumstance that modern survey aircraft have much better

24 navigation systems than historical survey aircraft?

25 A No. Because very few of the modern ones

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 really -- except for a few experimental projects -- take a

2 precise position at the time of the exposure. It's

3 certainly a technique that there have been literature

4 prepared on it, and there has been research conducted in

5 it, but to my knowledge there is no area in the

6 photographic production today is -- especially government

7 agencies doing this. So the navigational techniques --

8 generally, it's visual navigation that the pilots are using

9 for this purpose.

10 Q You have seen no photographs or not aware of

11 any photographic imagery available for the Everglades

12 Agricultural Area or the Everglades Protection Area that

13 uses that technique?

14 A I'm not aware of any. Certainly doesn't

15 preclude their being in existence. But like I said, I

16 haven't been provided any data, any photographic data.

17 Q When do you expect to get some?

18 A Any day now. The last I heard it was any day

19 now, so I don't know.

20 Q How many conversations have you had with

21 Dr. Herbert about this?

22 A Probably three or four.

23 Q Have you discussed your work with anybody else

24 in connection with the case other than Dr. Herbert or the

25 people in your firm?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A No, sir. Other than the attorneys with the

2 Hopping Boyd law firm.

3 Q Who is coordinating your work at the firm?

4 A Right now I believe Ms. Stinson is. I have

5 had conversations with Gary Perko also.

6 Q Do you have any notes or correspondence

7 related to your conversations with Dr. Herbert?

8 A No, sir.

9 Q Did you provide Dr. Herbert, after your

10 initial discussions with a list of sources, or indicate to

11 him where you thought data would be available to conduct

12 the work he was interested in having you do?

13 A No. He was already in the process of

14 acquiring the data when he contacted me about doing the

15 photographic and/or photogrammetric work connected with it.

16 Q Were you satisfied with the sources he was

17 using?

18 A I'm not certain of all the sources that he is

19 using at this point.

20 Q What sources would you tap for the data you

21 need to do this?

22 A I would certainly look for data in the

23 national archives as well as in the National Cartographic

24 Information Center; the U.S.G.S. flights; the Agricultural

25 Stabilization Service, Department of Agriculture. The

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 National Ocean Service may have flown in that far on a

2 coastal geodetic survey, and Defense Mapping Agency as well

3 as state sources, of course, the Florida Department of

4 Transportation, primarily.

5 Q When you do receive the photographic data, how

6 will you proceed in processing it.

7 A I'm counting on there to be a discussion with

8 the clients at that time to find out what they are looking

9 for. As my instructions and my discussions have been very

10 conceptual to date, so I really don't know, in

11 truthfulness. I understand I'll be doing some photographic

12 processing, and possibly making enlargements and things for

13 exhibits, comparison. It may involve stereoscopic type

14 comparison, or indeed it may just involve digitizing from

15 the rectified enlargement with a computerize digitizing

16 tablet. I'm not certain yet. It depends on what the

17 client is looking for. I am somewhat hazy as to what is to

18 be expected of me.

19 Q What digitizing programs do you use, software

20 programs?

21 A Primarily I'd say three of them. I have one

22 that I authored myself, I frequently use. I frequently use

23 AUTO-CAD as well as a program, I guess it's called SIR-1

24 which was produced by a firm called Carlson Patterson.

25 Q What's the name of your proprietary program?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A I've got one called Aerial one called Coord.

2 And there's nothing magical about it.

3 Q Chord as in a chord of a circle?

4 A Coordinates.

5 Q Coordinates, okay.

6 A C-O-O-R-D, I guess I called it.

7 Q And how do those proprietary programs differ

8 from the commercially available digitizing programs.

9 A They don't. Just the output, may be on

10 different format, may be useful for different purposes.

11 Q This one's going to be a real shot in the

12 dark. Once you figure out what they want you to do and

13 they give you the data to do it with, and you have more

14 than a hazy notion of why you're here, how long will it

15 take you?

16 A Here again, it depends on the assignment that

17 I'm given.

18 Q Has anybody indicated to you some sense of

19 when this work will be needed?

20 A No, sir.

21 Q Do you have any knowledge of the currently

22 schedule final hearing date for the case?

23 A No, sir.

24 Q Has anybody asked you how long it might take

25 in ballpark numbers to do this?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A No. Because like I said, I don't know how

2 many photographs we're dealing with or anything else at

3 this point. No, sir I'm sorry.

4 Q If I suggested it was thousands, upward of a

5 thousand photos, of all different scales, over a course of

6 about six different flights a year, essentially, 1940, '43

7 '46, in the '50s, in the '80s, and then as late as 1990,

8 where you're having to compare photographic data for large

9 areas on the order of 23 square miles in one area, and

10 perhaps 30 square miles in another. From that can you

11 estimate the kind of time it would take to do this type of

12 project?

13 A It would depend on the resolution, of the

14 scale of the photographs, the resolution of desired

15 product, and many factors such as that. Obviously, it

16 could take months, or it could take just days, depending

17 on, here again, what we're going to do.

18 Q Would it be fair for me, then, to understand

19 that at this point you really can't even give me an idea of

20 what your end product would look like, what type of

21 exhibits you would produce?

22 A That's a very fair statement, yes, sir.

23 Q Have you had any discussions with Dr. Herbert

24 or others about having somebody utilize your work product

25 to do vegetative analysis, species identification?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A No, sir.

2 Q How about hydroperiod determinations, if

3 you're familiar with the term?

4 A No, sir. I'm not familiar with the term; but,

5 no, sir; I haven't had any discussions regarding that.

6 (Discussion off the record.)

7 Q From the answers you've given so far it

8 appears that you are addressing areas within the Everglades

9 Protection Area. Has anyone indicated to you at any time

10 that you would conduct a similar analysis or similar work,

11 since it's very general at this point, in the Everglades

12 Agricultural Area?

13 A No one ever indicated geographic extent of

14 where my work would be focused, photographic work. The

15 only place that was indicated, you know, focus on the deeds

16 that we've discussed. But as to photographic, I have no

17 idea where the area we'll be covering at this point.

18 Q Prior to being contacted by Dr. Herbert, did

19 you have any familiarity with the Everglades SWIM Plan?

20 A Only reading in the press accounts of it.

21 Q And were you aware that there had been a

22 lawsuit between the United States and two Florida agencies

23 regarding nutrient pollution of Everglades?

24 A Here again, through press accounts I was aware

25 of it.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Q Did you have any involvement in that case or

2 ever contacted by anyone?

3 A No, sir.

4 Q Were you in any way familiar or involved in

5 the development of chapter 40E-63 of the Florida

6 Administrative Code, which is commonly referred to as the

7 Everglades Agricultural Area Regulatory Program, or BMP

8 rule?

9 A No, sir.

10 Q Have you ever attended sessions of the South

11 Florida Water Management District Board?

12 A No, sir.

13 Q How about working sessions of staff?

14 A No. I've had meetings with staff, but not,

15 you know, formal meetings. I just had meetings regarding

16 different -- seems like there's been at least one or two

17 specific projects regarding permitting, or to obtain keys

18 to some of their areas, things like this.

19 Q Since being contacted regarding the case, have

20 you had a chance to review the SWIM Plan --

21 A No, sir.

22 Q -- or any of its prior iterations?

23 A No, sir.

24 Q Do you currently have any contracts or ongoing

25 work with federal or state agencies?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 A Yes, sir. Currently have a contract with the

2 Fish and Wildlife Service for miscellaneous surveys with

3 the state.

4 Q I'm sorry. What's the first part of that?

5 Doing what?

6 A Miscellaneous surveys.

7 Q Oh, miscellaneous surveys. I'm sorry.

8 A Boundary surveys of theirs.

9 Q That's U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service?

10 A Yes, sir.

11 Q And where is the administrative office for

12 that contract?

13 A In Atlanta.

14 Q Are any of those surveys in South Florida?

15 A I've performed a survey, a small area over in

16 the Naples area for them.

17 Q Is that a wildlife refuge?

18 A It was -- there was two pieces to it. Part of

19 it was a small out parcel in the Panther Wildlife Refuge,

20 and the other one on border of the 10,000 islands, just a

21 mile identification where they had problems.

22 Q How about other federal agencies?

23 A No, sir; we have none.

24 Q Any state agency work at this time?

25 MS. STINSON: I presume you're speaking of

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Florida, state?

2 MR. FITZGERALD: Yes.

3 A I do have contracts with Mississippi and Texas

4 attorney general's offices, but in Florida we're --

5 currently have a contract -- or a couple of contracts for

6 projects that are ultimately for the Florida Department of

7 Transportation, though they're subcontracted to the prime

8 contractor in each case.

9 Q Who is the prime?

10 A The firm of Reynolds Smith & Hills.

11 Q Do they have an office here in Tallahassee?

12 A They have an office here in Tallahassee.

13 Their home office I believe is in Jacksonville and they

14 have another home office down in South Florida. I'm not

15 sure how that works.

16 Q Are you familiar with a practice in surveying

17 called floating elevations?

18 A Not per se. It may be -- you know, I may be

19 familiar with the process, it may be called something

20 different in my vocabulary.

21 Q Let me describe it, and then you tell me if

22 you have a different lexicon for it. Where you would be

23 looking for a vertical elevation, and you would start at a

24 monument site, and from there take the elevation of the

25 surface of a pool of water that is some distance remote

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 from the elevation using standard techniques, survey table,

2 standard leveling techniques, and then going from the

3 elevation of the surface of the pool of water determining

4 an elevation some distance from that trying to reach

5 closure on the transients, and determining the elevation at

6 the third remote point, extrapolating, if you will, from

7 the pool elevation.

8 A Yes, sir. I would call -- the term I would

9 use to call that by is water transfer of elevation. I am

10 familiar with that process.

11 Q Is that an accepted technique in surveying?

12 A In some cases with verifications. Obviously,

13 you have to be careful to ensure that the water surface is

14 indeed level, but through -- you can -- through redundant

15 observations or other forms of checking, you can sometimes

16 use that method.

17 Q Is the distance over which you -- I call it

18 floating. I'm sorry. What did you call it again?

19 A Water transfer.

20 Q Is the distance over which you're trying to

21 transfer that elevation a factor in the reliance you would

22 place on it? Does it affect its accuracy?

23 A Certainly. The greater distance has a better

24 chance of water slip existing, so you do have to take

25 precautions.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Q Is there any standard or norm within your

2 field of expertise for how far you would be willing to do

3 that without an additional mechanism for checking the

4 elevation?

5 A No, sir. It would certainly vary with the

6 water body, with the shape of the water body, the

7 configuration of it, and things of this nature; prevailing

8 weather conditions. It would certainly vary. I've never

9 seen anything in our literature that would describe

10 parameters for that.

11 Q If you were taking elevation in a water body

12 that was a canal, essentially, and pumping operations were

13 occurring in the canal, would you be comfortable trying to

14 take an elevation transfer from water that you know has a

15 hydraulic differential at each end?

16 A Only if you knew the slope of the water that

17 existed.

18 Q If you could calculate the slope, then you can

19 factor that in?

20 A Yes. If you could -- you know, due to the

21 geographic -- or the topographic configuration of the

22 canal. If you felt comfortable with that and it was a

23 linear slope, yes, sir.

24 Q I think I can probably ask this a different

25 way, but in order to be sure I've covered it completely,

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 other than the attorneys for Hopping Boyd and the contacts

2 with Dr. Herbert, have any of the other technical

3 consultants or experts retained by counsel conferred with

4 you regarding the development of your work or testimony?

5 A No, sir.

6 Q If I can invite your attention to Exhibit 1 to

7 the hearing. Counsel already has a copy of this. This is

8 your notice of deposition duces tecum. Have you seen that

9 document before?

10 A Yes, sir it was FAX'd to me on Thursday, which

11 would have probably been about the 2nd of December last

12 week.

13 Q Did you have an opportunity to read through

14 that?

15 A Yes, sir, I read through it.

16 Q Now, as we previously stated on the 3rd of

17 December, some documents were forwarded. What I'd like to

18 do is go down to page 4 or 5, page 5 at the bottom on the

19 documents to be produced.

20 A Yes, sir.

21 Q From your testimony thus far, I understand you

22 have no documents related to analysis of the effect or

23 impact of SWIM Plan on the vegetation in the Everglades

24 Protection Area?

25 A That's correct, I have not.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 Q Going to the next page. Other than the small

2 package of documents related to plat records of Fish and

3 Wildlife Service and of the Board of South Florida Water

4 Management District, do you have any other reports,

5 records, models, data bases, graphics or photo imagery that

6 you've yet reviewed or relied upon to analyze vegetative

7 growth patterns, communities, alterations of distribution

8 in the areas of the EAA or the EPA?

9 A No, sir.

10 Q Excluding those same materials I just

11 mentioned and the seven blueprints of the areas surrounding

12 Loxahatchee that you brought today, do you have any

13 documents, photographics, or records of any sort that show

14 any collection or analyst of photographic evidence of the

15 chronological development of EAA or area of the EPA.

16 A No, sir.

17 Q From your testimony, I take it that you have

18 no correspondence and have yet to prepare any reports?

19 A That's correct.

20 Q Do you have any correspondence or materials

21 that you have not provided in response to the request

22 within the notice of taking deposition under a claim of

23 privilege of any sort.

24 A No, sir.

25 Q Did you personally initiate inquiries to

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 acquire the materials related to Loxahatchee National

2 Wildlife boundaries from Fish and Wildlife Service and from

3 the Board of South Florida Water Management District?

4 A I personally requested the data from Fish and

5 Wildlife Service, our secretary requested data from the

6 water management district.

7 Q In connection with that work, though, the plot

8 work or plat work related to the Loxahatchee, have you been

9 asked to focus on any particular portions of the boundary

10 or just the entire --

11 A No, sir, I've just been in the process of

12 getting the data and keying it in, and the next step, I

13 would assume, I intend to consult with the attorneys about

14 what they do intend -- what they're looking for.

15 Q Have you reviewed any of the historical work

16 by other researchers related to the Everglades Protection

17 Area to help prepare you for consultation in this case?

18 A No, sir.

19 Q Well, I was going to try to give you some

20 notion of the date to which we would adjourn for completing

21 your deposition. I had noticed originally that it would

22 take approximately two days. We've taken just about the

23 amount of time I expected on the preliminaries, but can't

24 go much further, obviously. Once you have reached your

25 final opinion, counsel has assured me they would let us

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 know when that is, probably because they have to, and we'll

2 renotice again trying to accommodate your schedule.

3 A This is, I feel, a little premature because I

4 really haven't done anything to speak of other than get a

5 couple of deeds together.

6 Q At that time, when we renotice, it will again

7 be duces tecum, meaning we also want whatever additional

8 documents and exhibits. I tell you that only because I

9 have found that if you warn witnesses, they kind of keep

10 that in mind as they go along, and then when that date

11 comes, you don't have to scramble or do a lot of extra work

12 to put together a file of the materials, if you're thinking

13 about it. As time goes by, you kind of throw a spare copy

14 aside.

15 A We'll try to keep that in mind as we

16 accumulate data.

17 Q It's just easier. Although as you accumulate

18 and digitize, you're going to amass quite a bit of material

19 because the definition of documents and records does

20 include electronically stored data. And I don't know if

21 you use IBMs or Apples, but I hope you're using IBM

22 compatible.

23 A I work with IBM compatible.

24 Q One group is using Apples, and it's a

25 nightmare for everybody.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

1 MR. FITZGERALD: That's it. Thank you very

2 much. We'll adjourn and renotice when you form

3 opinions, if any.

4 (Deposition concluded at 10:30 a.m.)

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

2 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

3 STATE OF FLORIDA:

4 COUNTY OF LEON:

5 I, CAROLYN RANKINE, Certified Shorthand Reporter and

6 Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large:

7 DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing deposition was

8 taken before me at the time and place therein designated;

9 that before testimony was taken, the deponent was duly

10 sworn; that my shorthand notes were thereafter transcribed

11 under my supervision; and the foregoing pages numbered 1

12 through 46 are a true and correct record of the aforesaid

13 proceedings.

14 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,

15 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor

16 relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, or

17 financially interested in the foregoing action.

18 WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL this, the 11th day of

19 December, A.D., 1992, IN THE CITY OF TALLAHASSEE, COUNTY OF

20 LEON, STATE OF FLORIDA.

22 ______________________________

CAROLYN RANKINE, RPR, CP

23 100 Salem Court

Tallahassee, Florida 32301

24 (904)878-2221

25 My Commission Expires: July 22, 1995.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

I N V O I C E

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

100 Salem Court

Tallahassee, Florida 32301

(904)878-2221

INVOICE #: CR-F-5884

FED. ID. 59-2708168

DATE: 12/11/92

THOMAS A. W. FITZGERALD, ESQ.

Assistant United States Attorney

Southern District of Florida

155 South Miami Avenue

Miami, Florida 33130

___________________________________________________________

RE: Sugar Cane Growers v. SFWMD

DOAH Case Nos. 92-3038; -3039; -3040

The deposition of George M. Cole taken on December 7, 1992,

at 315 South Calhoun Street, Suite 510, Tallahassee,

Florida.

ASCII disk: 25.00

Postage and handling: UPS ____5.00

**TOTAL DUE $ 30.00

========

Reported by: Carolyn Rankine, RPR, CP______________________

THANK YOU!

Please return copy with payment to ensure proper credit.

Interest accrues at 12% annually if not paid in 45 days.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

ERRATA SHEET

I have read the transcript of my deposition, pages 1

through 46, and hereby subscribe to same, including any

corrections and/or amendments listed below.

____________________ ___________________________

DATE GEORGE M. COLE (12/7/92) (CR)

Sugar v. SFWMD

Page/Line

________ _________________________________________________

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

100 Salem Court

Tallahassee, Florida 32301

(904)878-2221

December 11, 1992

DONNA STINSON, ESQ.

Hopping Boyd Green & Sams

118 North Gadsden Street

Tallahassee, Florida 32301

In re: Sugar v. SFWMD; DOAH Case Nos. 92-3038; -3039;

-3040

Dear Ms. Stinson:

Enclosed please find your copy of the deposition of

George M. Cole, taken on December 7, 1992, in the

above-styled case.

As the witness did not waive reading and signing, I am also

enclosing an errata sheet. Please have your office make

the necessary arrangements with the witness to read your

copy of the deposition, noting his corrections on the

errata sheet, then dating and signing it.

Please forward the completed errata sheet to

Thomas A. W. FitzGerald, Assistant United States Attorney,

to be attached to the original copy of the transcript.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter. It was a

pleasure working with you.

Sincerely,

CAROLYN L. RANKINE, RPR, CP

Enc. (Errata sheet and copy of transcript.)

cc: Thomas A. W. FitzGerald, Esq.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.