48
1 AFTERNOON SESSION
2 1:45 p.m.
3 BY MR. HYDE:
4 Q. Let's go back to page 19 of Exhibit 3.
5 Again, looking to the summary on the
6 bottom of page 19 of Exhibit 3, under item 1, you say
7 that the "alga taxa in periphyton differs
8 considerably from site to site in the southern
9 Everglades."
10 Can you attribute certain characteristics
11 of certain sites or certain types of sites, is there
12 some uniformity there that you noticed?
13 A. Well, there are certain sites, I guess,
14 like Site A is distinctive from the others, and then
15 there's sort of a gradation between one site to the
16 other.
17 Q. Let me ask the question a little bit
18 differently. Why are they different, where do they
19 differ from site to site?
20 A. Well, I think the environmental conditions
21 differ from site to site, that's why they differ.
22 And in the analyses that we were talking about, it
23 looks like there's some other analyses here in the
24 body of the text that suggested to me that
25 hydroperiod was an important factor in determining
49
1 the difference, so that was one of the reasons why
2 they were different.
3 Q. Hydroperiods differ from site to site?
4 A. Correct.
5 And phosphorus stood out to be another
6 factor that made them different from site to site.
7 Q. It would that be generally true of other
8 areas?
9 A. Well, I only did this analysis in this
10 area. David Swift looked at periphyton in the
11 conservation areas. He did the same analysis that I
12 did, but he did find the relationship of I believe
13 the proportion of blue-greens inversely correlated
14 with water depth: the deeper the water, the less the
15 blue-greens.
16 I think I mentioned that someplace else.
17 Q. Have you ever done any studies in the
18 northern portions of the water conservation areas?
19 A. No.
20 Q. All your studies have been generally in
21 the areas you described earlier, around the
22 Everglades National Park?
23 A. Right, where this is shown.
24 Q. Can you extrapolate your opinions to the
25 northern portions of the water conservation areas?
50
1 MS. STARK: Objection to the question.
2 MR. McGRATH: I join in the objection.
3 BY MR. HYDE:
4 Q. You may go ahead and answer if you
5 understand the question.
6 A. Well, in the synthesis, I didn't try to
7 extrapolate, I used David Swift's observations and I
8 used Pat Gleason's observations.
9 Q. You stated earlier, though, that in your
10 work, that conditions differed -- well, the taxa
11 differed from site to site because of environmental
12 conditions. Would you expect that general principle
13 to hold true in other areas, not just the Everglades
14 Park area?
15 A. Yes.
16 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
17 question.
18 BY MR. HYDE:
19 Q. Your answer was yes. Is that correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. So would it then be appropriate to examine
22 site-specific conditions when one is examining
23 periphyton communities?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Item No. 2 under the summary reads, and I
51
1 quote: "Blue-green algae make up 90 percent or more
2 of the algal volume in periphyton at many southern
3 Everglades locations." The predominant genus, making
4 up 50 percent or more of volume at most sites, is
5 Scytonema."
6 Addressing the first sentence first in
7 that quote, do you regard the fact that these
8 blue-green algae make up 90 percent or more of the
9 algal volume as being indicative or an indicator of
10 some disturbance in the environmental conditions at
11 those sites in the southern Everglades?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What would you normally expect to find,
14 say, in a more or less pristine or undisturbed or
15 background condition?
16 A. A higher percentage of diatoms maybe, 15
17 to 20 percent or more.
18 Q. Just diatoms?
19 A. Particularly diatoms. You might also
20 expect to find some greens, particularly desmids, at
21 an undisturbed site.
22 Q. Item 4 indicates that "Desmids are a
23 relatively minor component of southern Everglades
24 periphyton."
25 Would you still think they would, even in
52
1 a pristine background area, be a relatively
2 unimportant factor?
3 A. I think they would be more important in a
4 pristine environment.
5 Q. But would you still think that blue-greens
6 would predominate, more than 50 percent?
7 A. Possibly.
8 Q. Have you examined any areas that you would
9 consider background or pristine or whatever in your
10 mind would represent a typical mix of blue-greens,
11 greens and diatoms and desmids?
12 A. Well, I think that Site VIII might have
13 been more typical, and I think that the C-111 area
14 might be more typical. Let me see if I have that.
15 (Pause)
16 A. Yes. Site XVII.
17 Q. What page were you referring to there? Is
18 that 92?
19 A. Probably. I think I was looking at 93 --
20 yes, 93, because XVII is not on 92. In that
21 particular quarter, we had not yet added Sites XIII
22 through XVII.
23 Q. So at Site VIII, the percent of
24 blue-greens was 38.66 percent?
25 A. Yes.
53
1 Q. And green, 16.53 percent, and diatoms,
2 44.80 percent, correct?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And XIII, did you say XIII -- no, XVII?
5 A. XVII, right.
6 Q. XVII was 39.36 percent blue-greens, 6.95
7 percent greens, and 53.69 percent diatoms?
8 A. Right. Site XIII also might be one of
9 those more typical sites.
10 Q. Would you regard these relative
11 proportions as being more indicative then of more
12 natural or undisturbed areas of the southern
13 Everglades?
14 A. More natural, longer hydroperiod.
15 Q. Would you expect to find the same relative
16 proportions in the northern Everglades as are
17 indicated here?
18 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
19 question.
20 MR. McGRATH: Objection.
21 MS. STARK: You may answer if you know.
22 THE WITNESS: Probably. You can look at
23 David Swift's work, though, to get an idea because he
24 did that.
25 BY MR. HYDE:
54
1 Q. So you think David Swift's work would
2 indicate something along the same lines in an
3 understand disturbed area as to the relative mixture
4 of greens and blue-greens to diatoms?
5 A. Some of it, yes.
6 Q. Let's compare Site XVII to, for example,
7 Site XVI, the line above.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. There's quite a bit of difference there in
10 terms of mixtures. Do you regard those different
11 relative proportions as being indicative of some
12 species imbalance at Site XVI?
13 A. Well, they reflect a certain species
14 imbalance, an overdominance of blue-green algae.
15 Q. Have you ever been asked to examine the
16 Department of Environmental Regulations' water
17 quality standards?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Have you ever reviewed them independently?
20 A. No, I haven't.
21 Q. Does the term "imbalance" have any meaning
22 to you as a scientist?
23 A. Well, there can be imbalance in a lot of
24 different ways.
25 Q. Does it have any particular meaning to you
55
1 in terms of evaluating periphyton communities?
2 A. I never used the term in anything I have
3 ever written.
4 Q. The reason I'm mentioning this is one of
5 the administrative rules that governs the case speaks
6 to an imbalance in species of flora and fauna.
7 A. In the community.
8 Q. Yes, and I'm just wondering if that term
9 has some meaning in the scientific sense of
10 evaluating communities in this instance like
11 periphyton?
12 A. Well, there are very specific terms for
13 measuring diversity and quantifying it, and none of
14 those terms are "imbalance," but they sort of would
15 be sort of synonymous perhaps with "imbalance."
16 Q. Are you referring to something like the
17 Shannon Weaver Index?
18 A. Yes, that's one of them. That's another
19 term.
20 Q. Something like the Shannon Weaver Index to
21 compare and contrast these relative proportions of
22 blue-greens, greens and diatoms?
23 A. It might be interesting to do that.
24 Q. Is that something that someone would
25 usually do?
56
1 A. Well, I don't know. I haven't seen it
2 done, but it wouldn't have been appropriate in our
3 case because we weren't defining all the species.
4 Q. Why does the lack of defining species
5 impact on that?
6 A. Well, generally when you do that, you are
7 doing it at the species level.
8 Q. Going back to page 19, the fifth item
9 reads: "Other green algae are important at a few
10 locations."
11 Can you explain to me the significance of
12 that statement?
13 A. They made up an important part of the
14 volume apparently at only a few places, other algae.
15 Q. So you are only speaking here to volume?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Are you speaking at all to the role and
18 function of the ecosystem?
19 A. No, I'm not, I am only speaking of volume.
20 Q. Turn to the next page, 20.
21 Item 6 reads, and I quote: "A succession
22 keyed to hydroperiod appears to occur. Blue-green
23 algae become reestablished in an area very quickly
24 upon reflooding following drying. Several months of
25 continuous flooding are required for diatoms and
57
1 green algae to become fully reestablished after an
2 area has dried. Probably for this reason,
3 hydroperiod is a very important factor in determining
4 algal composition of periphyton."
5 Do you still agree with that statement?
6 A. I think so.
7 Q. The statement is somewhat qualified by the
8 use of terms such as "appears to occur" and "could,"
9 things like that, and do you mean it to have that
10 kind of qualification, or do you mean this statement
11 in more of an affirmative sense that a succession
12 keyed to hydroperiod is occurring?
13 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
14 question. You can answer it.
15 THE WITNESS: Well, science has always
16 been seeking the truth, and you try, you are always
17 working toward getting what the truth is, but there's
18 always some subjectivity to it, to understanding
19 what's going on.
20 BY MR. HYDE:
21 Q. Would you say you are satisfied with this
22 conclusion to a reasonable degree of scientific
23 certainty?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You said that the "blue-green algae become
58
1 reestablished in an area very quickly upon reflooding
2 following drying." What kind of blue-green algae?
3 A. Well, the Scytonema and Schizothrix.
4 Q. What about microcoleus?
5 A. I really don't know very much about
6 microcoleus.
7 Q. Why do you think the Scytonema and
8 Schizothrix become reestablished so quickly?
9 A. I think they are resistant to desiccation,
10 and they have akenes also that are resistant to
11 desiccation, and they can come back very quickly
12 after that.
13 Q. Would you spell akenes for me.
14 A. A K E N E S.
15 Q. Are there any green algae?
16 A. They have gelatinous --
17 MS. STARK: Wait until a question is
18 pending.
19 Q. Go ahead.
20 A. They have gelatinous sheaths around them
21 to help prevent them from drying.
22 Q. Can they withstand a drought or a drying
23 period almost indefinitely?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. Have you made any observations generally
59
1 about how long they can last in these situations?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Are there any green periphyton that are
4 similarly tough in terms of drought conditions,
5 resistance?
6 A. I don't think so.
7 Q. What about diatoms?
8 A. I think they can be sometimes resistant.
9 Q. Are there a specific species or set of
10 species that fall into that category?
11 A. I don't know.
12 Q. Are you aware of any literature or studies
13 that might indicate what they are?
14 A. Nancy Maynard is an expert on diatoms.
15 Q. Are you using diatoms and green algaes
16 synonymously or in a separate category?
17 A. Separate category.
18 Q. Item 7 reads, and I quote: "Soil organic
19 matter appears to affect algal composition of
20 periphyton, possibly by reducing the diurnal
21 variation in pH. (Large diurnal fluctuations in pH,
22 dissolved oxygen and temperature favor blue-green
23 algae, according to other studies.)"
24 Addressing the first sentence first in
25 that statement, how would a reduction in the diurnal
60
1 variation in pH affect algal composition of
2 periphyton?
3 A. Well, for instance, if a type of
4 periphyton needed certain type of water conditions,
5 like desmids need soft water conditions, relatively
6 low pH, and if the pH is going high and low within
7 the day regularly, they might exclude the desmids.
8 Q. What environmental conditions might cause
9 radical fluctuations in pH concentration?
10 A. Well, photosynthesis causes diurnal
11 variation in pH and dissolved oxygen.
12 Q. Let's address the second sentence then.
13 You say that blue-green algae are favored by these
14 large diurnal fluctuations in pH. Why?
15 A. Because they can tolerate them and some of
16 the other algae can't.
17 Q. Green periphyton cannot, would that be a
18 fair statement?
19 A. Well, desmids cannot.
20 Q. Well, is it the blue-green algae that's
21 causing the fluctuations in pH or is the pH creating
22 the conditions that are conducive to the blue-green
23 algae?
24 A. I guess all of the algae are creating the
25 fluctuation in pH, it depends on how much is there.
61
1 Also it depend on the bicarbonate concentration of
2 the water, that changes.
3 Q. Are the blue-green algae also influencing
4 the fluctuations in dissolved oxygen concentrations?
5 A. Yes, all the algae that are there now.
6 Q. That would be the same with greens and
7 desmids and diatoms?
8 A. Right, and the emergent plants that die
9 fall no the water, they are also affecting the oxygen
10 content because when they decompose, they take up
11 oxygen.
12 Q. I guess I'm a little bit confused here
13 with the statement because it seems to be saying on
14 the one hand that diurnal fluctuations in pH and
15 dissolved oxygen affect favorably green algae, and
16 yet you are also saying that all of the periphyton
17 influences fluctuations in pH and dissolved oxygen.
18 A. Influencing it, whether it favors them or
19 not.
20 MS. STARK: There's no question pending
21 yet.
22 BY MR. HYDE:
23 Q. Maybe you had anticipated my question, but
24 I am just asking you how are they influencing them
25 and at what point -- strike that.
62
1 Is there a threshold, if you will, above
2 which blue-green algae are favored over, say, green
3 algaes or the others?
4 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of that
5 question. You can answer.
6 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
7 BY MR. HYDE:
8 Q. Well, you would expect, wouldn't you,
9 there to be fluctuation in the pH and dissolved
10 oxygen?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. So above some certain point in that
13 fluctuation, you will have conditions that favor
14 blue-greens over the other types of periphyton.
15 Would that be correct?
16 A. This is something that I say according to
17 other studies, and, unfortunately, I don't cite those
18 other studies, and it has been so long ago that I
19 don't know how to go back to them and look and see
20 what they say.
21 Q. Do you recall what those studies are and
22 the authors?
23 A. That's what I'm saying, I don't.
24 Q. Moving on now to item 8 which reads:
25 "Changing the hydroperiod of an area has two effects
63
1 on taxonomic composition of periphyton: a direct
2 immediate effect and an indirect effect caused by the
3 change in percent soil organic matter in bottom
4 sediment, which is hydroperiod-related."
5 Explain to me, if you will, what the
6 direct immediate effect is.
7 A. The direct immediate effect is that
8 there's a long period of being dry without any water
9 on the surface of the soil, that's an immediate
10 effect.
11 Q. What's the indirect effect?
12 A. That would be when you have conditions
13 like that, you get a deposition of calcite, so your
14 soil is going to change.
15 Q. What does it change to?
16 A. Well, if it was highly organic soil, it
17 will change to a calcitic soil on top. I don't mean
18 organic soil will be replaced by calcitic soil, but,
19 rather, that the calcitic soil will deposit on top of
20 the organic soil.
21 Q. What's the significance of that calcitic
22 soil deposition?
23 A. Well, presumably that could affect the
24 chemistry in the water color above it.
25 Q. How would it affect that water chemistry?
64
1 A. There might be more calcium available in
2 the water if it dissolved into the water.
3 Q. What affects would that have?
4 A. Well, then the algae could precipitate.
5 Q. It sounds sort of circular?
6 A. Yes. You can have calcite precipitation
7 because the calcite in the soil provided the calcium
8 to precipitate.
9 Q. What ecological impact is this going to
10 have if we start going down the track towards this
11 calcitic deposition?
12 A. Well, I think that would take some
13 thought.
14 Q. Have you done any analysis in that regard?
15 A. No, no, I haven't.
16 Q. Item 9 states: "Salinity may inhibit some
17 major blue-green algal species in southern Everglades
18 periphyton."
19 Why would that occur?
20 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
21 question.
22 THE WITNESS: I honestly don't know. I
23 don't know why I made that statement. There's no
24 reference, so I can't look into it.
25 BY MR. HYDE:
65
1 Q. Item 10 discusses feeding and growth
2 experiments with one Everglades organism.
3 Were these experiments that you conducted
4 yourself?
5 A. They were experiments that some
6 contractors did for me.
7 Q. What was the organism utilized for the
8 purposes of those studies?
9 A. Hyla squirella.
10 Q. What is that?
11 A. It is a squirrel tree frog.
12 Q. Is this the tadpole stage of the tree
13 frog?
14 A. That's right.
15 Q. Do you know how that study or experiment
16 was set up?
17 A. There's a report on it and we could look
18 at it. It has been a while since I looked at it, but
19 it was set up in a series of aquaria.
20 Q. Well, relate to me, if you will, your
21 understanding of how that experiment was conducted,
22 just in a thumbnail sketch.
23 A. May I refer to the papers?
24 Q. Sure.
25 A. It has been quite a while.
66
1 Approximately 450 small tadpoles were
2 collected from a roadside ditch, and they were all
3 approximately the same size.
4 Q. What document are you referring to, by the
5 way?
6 A. Comparison of Laboratory Growth of Hyla
7 Squirella Tadpoles on Everglades Periphyton.
8 MR. HYDE: Why don't we attach this to the
9 deposition as Exhibit 4.
10 (Deposition Exhibit 4 was marked for
11 identification)
12 BY MR. HYDE:
13 Q. What page were you referring to in Exhibit
14 4?
15 A. Page 3, next to the last paragraph.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. They were held for one day without any
18 feeding to clear their digestive tracts. Then 90
19 were harvested in two groups and put in frozen
20 storage, so they were sacrificed, to get pretrial
21 weights.
22 The remaining were divided into eight
23 groups of approximately 45 each for placement in
24 separate aquaria, and then four different rations
25 were fed to them, one ration fed to each aquaria. And
67
1 the rations came from the sites that we discussed in
2 the previous study.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. And one ration came from a high blue-green
5 site, one came from a high diatom site, and the other
6 from a high green site, and then there was a Carolina
7 ration, a commercial ration, Carolina Biological
8 Supply tadpole feed, and that's how it was set up.
9 Q. What results did that study yield?
10 A. Well, they were fed for 10 days, and then
11 they were allowed to empty their stomachs for a day,
12 and then harvested and placed in frozen storage and
13 then weighed. First they were dried and then
14 weighed, and they got an average tadpole weight for
15 each set.
16 And they found that the frogs gained the
17 most weight on the Carolina feed, but the diatom-rich
18 periphyton was significantly greater than growth
19 rates on either the rich-green or rich blue-green
20 algae periphyton. They had negative growth on the
21 high blue-green periphyton.
22 Q. You mean they lost weight?
23 A. Right.
24 Q. What species of blue-green algae were
25 utilized in that experiment?
68
1 A. This was taken from a site in Taylor
2 Slough, I think that was Site 4, and it was probably
3 mainly Scytonema and Schizothrix.
4 Q. Do you regard those tadpoles as being good
5 indicators of how species would utilize periphyton as
6 a food source?
7 A. Yes, they are one indicator, I think a
8 good one.
9 Q. Might other species utilize the periphyton
10 in a different way? For example, could other
11 species, say, find the blue-greens more or better
12 food source than, say, the greens or the desmids,
13 blue diatoms?
14 A. It is certainly conceivable. We have
15 another study that suggests that several different
16 organisms seem to select diatoms.
17 Q. What would those organisms be?
18 A. Gambusia, Mosquitofish.
19 Q. Anything else, by the common name?
20 A. Crayfish, Least Killifish.
21 Q. Have you seen any studies which suggest
22 that species diversity and density of benthic
23 macroinvertebrates is greater in areas predominated
24 by blue-green algae?
25 A. I haven't seen that information.
69
1 Q. Would that necessarily surprise you if
2 that were true?
3 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
4 question.
5 You may answer.
6 THE WITNESS: You will have to go back and
7 tell me that again.
8 BY MR. HYDE:
9 Q. Well, it is a proposition I guess that's a
10 hypothetical, that species density and diversity of
11 benthic macroinvertebrates is greater in areas
12 predominated by blue-green algae. It is a
13 hypothetical.
14 Assuming that to be true, would that
15 surprise you?
16 MS. STARK: Same objection.
17 MR. McGRATH: Join.
18 BY MR. HYDE:
19 Q. You may answer.
20 MS. STARK: You can answer.
21 THE WITNESS: I don't have any data. I
22 haven't read anything.
23 BY MR. HYDE:
24 Q. If you have no opinion or no answer,
25 that's fine, just say so.
70
1 A. Okay.
2 Q. Is that your answer, that you don't have
3 an opinion?
4 A. I think the diversity would be lower.
5 Q. I guess you would tend to disagree with
6 that hypothesis?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. I would like to turn your attention back
9 to page 16.
10 MS. STARK: Is that on Exhibit 3?
11 MR. HYDE: Yes.
12 BY MR. HYDE:
13 Q. The bottom of the page under the
14 subheading "Discussion."
15 The first sentence reads, and I quote:
16 "Soil and hydrologic conditions appear to be the
17 overriding factors influencing the taxonomic
18 composition of Everglades periphyton."
19 Do you still agree with that statement?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. The next paragraph reads: "Not only are
22 percent soil organic matter and hydroperiod suggested
23 as the major factors controlling taxonomic
24 composition of southern Everglades periphyton, but
25 the relationship between these two factors, which is
71
1 reflected in the correlation results, is very strong.
2 Percent soil organic matter is a product
3 of the long-term hydroperiod of an area, because
4 flooding inhibits decomposition, which is primarily a
5 microbial process limited by available oxygen and
6 accelerated by exposure to air." Than you cite
7 Browder and Volk, 1978?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you still subscribe to that
10 observation?
11 A. Yes. I want to add one thing, though,
12 that the top sediment can be changed, as I mentioned
13 before. You can lay down calcite on top of soil
14 organic matter if you change the hydroperiod.
15 Q. How would that fact influence a change of
16 this observation here?
17 A. I guess I would add another sentence to
18 it.
19 Q. How would you propose that other sentence?
20 A. I would say that a change in hydroperiod
21 can result in accumulation of calcite soil on top of
22 organic soil.
23 Q. Back to your contractor's or
24 subcontractor's animal experiments with the tadpoles.
25 Do you regard the tadpole as being a representative
72
1 species in terms of evaluating whether changes in
2 periphyton composition were impacting upon various
3 species that utilize an ecosystem?
4 A. Well, I think it was a good species, it is
5 one you would expect to see frequently in the aquatic
6 environment in the Everglades.
7 Q. Can you think of any other species that
8 might be good indicators?
9 A. How broad do you want me to be?
10 Q. On the small side.
11 A. Gambusia.
12 Q. The species you indicated earlier?
13 A. Some of those species, yes, the Crayfish.
14 Q. Killifish?
15 A. Least Killifish, that's right.
16 MS. STARK: Can we take a short break now?
17 MR. HYDE: Sure, about five, 10 minutes.
18 (Recess)
19 BY MR. HYDE:
20 Q. Let's turn now to the document that's
21 Periphyton in the Everglades: Spatial Variation,
22 Environmental Correlates, and Ecological
23 Implications, 1991.
24 Let's mark this as Exhibit 5.
25 (Deposition Exhibit 5 was marked for
73
1 identification)
2 BY MR. HYDE:
3 Q. I assume you were the author of this
4 particular paper. Is that correct?
5 A. There's three authors.
6 Q. You are one of the three authors?
7 A. Right.
8 Q. Were you the primary one?
9 A. I was the first author, yes.
10 Q. Does "first" mean the same as primary?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Who commissioned this study?
13 A. It wasn't commissioned exactly, there was
14 a symposium on the Everglades held in Key Largo in
15 1989, and I was invited to present a paper on
16 periphyton at that symposium. I was specifically
17 asked to write a paper with David Swift and Pat
18 Gleason, and to be the principal author.
19 Q. Who invited you to do that?
20 A. Steve Davis and John Ogden, they were the
21 symposium organizers.
22 Q. Did you conduct any new experiments to
23 write this paper?
24 A. No.
25 Q. It was, for lack of a better term, a
74
1 literature review for studies previously done?
2 A. Yes, a review and synthesis.
3 Q. Was the study that we discussed earlier,
4 Exhibit 3, a primary source for this later paper?
5 A. Yes, one primary source.
6 Q. In analyzing your earlier paper, did you
7 arrive at any conclusions that were divergent from
8 the views expressed in your earlier paper?
9 A. I can't think of any that were divergent.
10 I think I arrived at more conclusions in looking at
11 that information in relation to other information.
12 Q. Did you write specific portions of this
13 paper here?
14 A. I wrote most of it. There are some
15 sections that Pat Gleason wrote.
16 Q. Do you recall which sections he wrote?
17 A. The sections probably having a great deal
18 of detail related to his work or his observations
19 Q. What about David Swift?
20 A. I think there might have been a paragraph
21 or two dealing with his work that he provided the
22 wording for.
23 Q. You are speaking about Mr. Gleason or Mr.
24 Swift?
25 A. Swift. And I used both their published
75
1 and unpublished work extensively.
2 Q. The date on this document is November
3 15th, 1991, yet it says below after "Chapter accepted
4 for publication in Proceedings of Everglades
5 Symposium, Key Largo, Florida, October 11-15-1889"?
6 A. This was the date of the symposium.
7 Q. Well, was this paper presented to the
8 symposium?
9 A. A presentation was made to the symposium,
10 but the paper was not.
11 Q. So this was prepared after?
12 A. Completely written, right. Just a nucleus
13 of the information in the paper was prepared by that
14 time.
15 Q. Turn to page 2, I guess, the abstract
16 portion of your presentation paper. About halfway
17 down the first paragraph, there's a sentence which
18 begins with the words: "At least three environmental
19 gradients -- hydroperiod-water depth, phosphorus
20 concentration, and aspects of water chemistry
21 involving the major ions, especially calcium --
22 affect the toxonomic composition, growth
23 characteristics, structure, and extent of calcite
24 encrustation of Everglades periphyton."
25 I would like you just to explain a few
76
1 components of that statement before I get into any
2 substance of questions. What do you mean by the
3 phrase "encrustation"?
4 A. That's the calcite incorporated in the
5 periphyton.
6 Q. What are the major ions other than
7 calcium?
8 A. Magnesium, sodium, but there wasn't much
9 sodium in any of these samples.
10 Q. Was there any appreciable amount of
11 magnesium?
12 A. I don't know, we have to look at David
13 swift's paper to see this.
14 Q. Your sentence begins with the phrase "At
15 least." Does that mean that there are other
16 environmental gradients which may affect taxonomic
17 composition, etc., of Everglades periphyton?
18 A. Well, it leaves the possibility open that
19 there could be.
20 Q. Do you regard these three as being the
21 primary, if you will, gradients?
22 A. I think so.
23 Q. We discussed already how hydroperiod and
24 water depth and phosphorus concentration can affect
25 Everglades periphyton. How do the major ions affect
77
1 Everglades periphyton?
2 A. Well, where you have high concentrations
3 of calcium, you don't get the desmids, you don't get
4 high concentrations of desmids like were found in
5 Conservation Area 1.
6 Q. So the more major ions there are, the
7 fewer desmids there will be?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Why can't the desmids tolerate that higher
10 calcium water?
11 A. I think it has to do with the pH and what
12 the ions are associated with.
13 Q. By the way, do you still agree with the
14 gist of this statement here that I quoted?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. You discussed three different types of
17 effects here, one is taxonomic composition, the
18 second is growth characteristics -- actually there
19 are four -- the third is structure, and the fourth is
20 extent of calcite encrustation.
21 How does hydroperiod-water depth affect
22 growth characteristics?
23 A. Well, only at a certain depth you will see
24 an algal mat. There's an exact depth given in here,
25 60.
78
1 Q. I think you are right, I think it is 60
2 centimeters.
3 Why is that?
4 A. Well, it is probably because the
5 conditions of the bottom of the water column are not
6 conducive to precipitation of calcite.
7 Q. What conditions are those?
8 A. Well, the degree of saturation with
9 respect to calcium carbonate, and that would be
10 affected by carbon dioxide in the water column. That
11 would be affected, as I mentioned earlier, by water
12 depth and possibly an amount of organic material
13 decomposing.
14 Q. What do you mean by the term "structure"
15 in the context of this sentence?
16 A. I think I mean the fine structure, whether
17 or not it is layered, a distinct layered structure or
18 if it is an amorphous structure.
19 Q. By "amorphous" you mean unconsolidated?
20 A. Indistinct, not layered.
21 Q. Can you perhaps be a little more
22 descriptive for me? I'm having trouble --
23 A. Periphyton can look like sheets of
24 material laid down on top of each other. Actually,
25 whether it is a ream or a mat, if you slice through
79
1 the cylinder, it has structure, it will stay
2 together, and looking at it from the top and down,
3 you can see sort of that it is layered; an amorphous
4 periphyton would be not that way.
5 Q. Would this be sort of a filmy mass of
6 algae?
7 A. Yes, a glob.
8 Q. Is there any significance to that, that
9 differentiation between a layered periphyton and,
10 say, an amorphous periphyton?
11 A. I don't know. It is distinctive.
12 Q. Is it, to your knowledge, having any
13 adverse impact on hightrophic species?
14 A. Not that I know of.
15 Q. Does it have any adverse impact on the
16 habitat values of the periphyton?
17 A. Not that I know of.
18 Q. Well, let me ask you the general question.
19 Are these observed changes in taxonomic composition,
20 growth characteristics, structure and calcite
21 encrustation having any adverse impact, to your
22 knowledge, on that ecosystem habitat?
23 A. Well, I think that the taxonomic
24 composition influences the animals, the animal
25 community in the habitat and their food supply.
80
1 Q. You are speaking simply of food supply
2 there?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What about just looking at periphyton
5 habitat as opposed to a food source, is there any
6 adverse impact to periphyton in its function as
7 habitat?
8 A. I don't know.
9 Q. How is the phosphorus concentration
10 affecting taxonomic composition?
11 A. Well, there's a higher amount of
12 microcoleus where you have high phosphorus.
13 Q. The microcoleus is the periphyton that's
14 associated with the soil?
15 A. No, it is periphyton, it is a blue-green
16 algal that's associated with eutrophic conditions.
17 Q. You said it was associated, but does that
18 mean it was caused by?
19 A. Apparently. I think so.
20 Q. You are not sure?
21 A. Well, it was not my work, it was David's
22 work, and I think it is correct.
23 Q. You are relying on his opinion for that?
24 A. Yes, on his work.
25 Q. How is phosphorus affecting the structure
81
1 of the Everglades periphyton?
2 A. I don't know.
3 Q. There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't
4 know."
5 A. That's good.
6 Q. I always find it refreshing when
7 scientists say that. Most scientists I deal with
8 have opinions about everything, including areas they
9 have no knowledge of whatsoever.
10 Is phosphorus having any impact on the
11 calcite encrustation phenomenon?
12 A. I really don't know that either.
13 Microcoleus does precipitate calcite according to the
14 literature.
15 Q. Are the major ions impacting taxonomic
16 composition?
17 A. I think they are a factor influencing.
18 Q. How so?
19 A. Well, when it is not complicated by
20 hydroperiod, I think it influences taxonomy.
21 Q. You said when it is not complicated by
22 hydroperiod it is influencing taxonomy?
23 A. Right. I think the hydroperiod influences
24 the water chemistry, actually, in a way that I have
25 explained.
82
1 Q. What if you have both together, that is,
2 short hydroperiod and phosphorus?
3 MS. STARK: I will object to the form of
4 the question.
5 You can answer.
6 THE WITNESS: I think phosphorus is a
7 limiting nutrient, so it is causing growth in
8 emergent plants and algae. When you have a short
9 hydroperiod, it inhibits that; when the hydroperiod
10 is longer, the phosphorus has more opportunity to
11 act.
12 BY MR. HYDE:
13 Q. So it would be fair to say in the shorter
14 hydroperiod, the phosphorus has lesser opportunity to
15 act?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. The longer the hydroperiod, it has more
18 opportunity to act?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. In the latter instance, it is having more
21 effect than the former?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Phosphorus is a fertilizer, isn't it?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Does it fertilize all types of periphyton?
83
1 A. Probably.
2 Q. Why aren't greens and diatoms and the
3 desmids able to take up phosphorus just like the
4 blue-greens are?
5 A. Well, perhaps microcoleus grows so fast
6 that the others don't get the opportunity to get the
7 light and so forth. There are desmids -- I mean
8 there are diatoms that are favored by eutrophic
9 conditions.
10 Q. Can you give me any representative
11 examples of those types of desmids or diatoms?
12 A. They are listed in here.
13 Q. What page, can you tell me?
14 A. If you look in Table 1 on page, on
15 continued No. 3.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. It would actually be on No. 4, continued
18 4.
19 Q. Okay. Thank you.
20 Can you separate out which of these three
21 environmental gradients is the more significant or
22 more influential
23 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
24 question.
25 BY MR. HYDE:
84
1 Q. I'm talking about in terms of causing
2 these impacts on Everglades periphyton communities.
3 A. The hydroperiod can overrule the other
4 two, does overrule the other two.
5 Q. I would like you to turn to page 26 of
6 Exhibit 5. I am looking now at the paragraph that
7 cites to the Swift and Nicholas report.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. The last sentence reads: "These
10 relationships seemed secondary to the effect of water
11 chemistry on taxonomic composition in the WCAs."
12 When I first read this, I assumed that Mr.
13 Swift and Nicholas were disagreeing with you at least
14 in some respects in terms of your observations
15 expressed in the previous paragraph?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Is that true?
18 A. Their hydroperiod wasn't changing, their
19 water depth may have changed, but their hydroperiod
20 wasn't changing.
21 Q. What's the significance of that fact?
22 A. There was no effect of hydroperiod in
23 their study.
24 Q. They were only looking at other factors in
25 terms of having impacts on the periphyton community?
85
1 A. Right, including water depth.
2 Q. Did you think their analysis was going to
3 be appreciably altered if hydroperiod can come into
4 play as well?
5 MR. McGRATH: Objection to the form.
6 BY MR. HYDE:
7 Q. You may answer.
8 A. I think that the result, that the
9 hydroperiod could have come into play if some of
10 their sites had had short hydroperiods. If they had
11 the gradient of the hydroperiod, we may have seen a
12 difference.
13 Q. Turn now to page 44. Toward the bottom of
14 the page, you state: "hydroperiod and water depth
15 can affect, 1, the rate of organic matter production
16 by aquatic plants, and, 2, the rate of decomposition
17 of organic matter."
18 Can you explain to me how hydroperiod and
19 water depth affect, first, the rate of organic matter
20 production by aquatic plants?
21 A. Well, water isn't limiting and they can
22 grow faster, they won't be limited in their growth by
23 lack of water.
24 Q. How does hydroperiod -- well, were you
25 speaking of the hydroperiod then?
86
1 A. Well, I guess -- yes, I am speaking of the
2 hydroperiod.
3 Q. How does water depth affect the rate of
4 organic matter production?
5 A. If the water gets too or very high, you
6 won't have emergent plant growth, you will have
7 submerged plants growing.
8 Q. You mean like water lilies, something like
9 that?
10 A. Yes or waterworts.
11 Q. You also postulate that hydroperiod and
12 water depth affect the rate of decomposition of
13 organic matter. How does hydroperiod do that?
14 A. Well, if you have a short hydroperiod, you
15 get decomposition outside of the water.
16 Q. It oxidizes?
17 A. Right, and so you have less to decompose
18 when it is flooded.
19 Q. How does water depth by itself affect the
20 rate of decomposition?
21 A. It affects oxygen supply to the bottom,
22 and oxygen is a factor influencing oxidation for
23 decomposition.
24 Q. Can you relate that to me in terms of the
25 depth of the water, the less oxygen there is?
87
1 A. Yes, but it is influenced, complicated by
2 what's growing on the bottom in the light and
3 producing oxygen, but also uptaking oxygen.
4 Q. Lower concentrations of oxygen slow down
5 the rate of decomposition?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And there are various factors that can
8 attribute to lower or higher dissolved oxygen
9 concentrations in the water?
10 A. Photosynthesis can affect it, water depth.
11 Q. Any other factors?
12 A. The amount of organic matter since it uses
13 it up in its decomposition.
14 Q. Can you think of any other factors that
15 might influence it?
16 A. Influence the decomposition?
17 Q. Yes, or influence the dissolved oxygen
18 concentration which affects the decomposition rate?
19 A. Nutrients can affect the growth of plants,
20 which would affect both photosynthesis and can affect
21 the emergent plant material growth and dropping of
22 organic material into the water column.
23 Q. Turning now to page 60. "As Belanger and
24 Platko in 1986 have pointed out, the periphyton
25 community makes an important DO contribution to
88
1 shallow Everglades waters. Periphyton may be as
2 important for its role in providing oxygenated
3 habitat for aquatic animals as for its role in the
4 food web."
5 Do all periphytons play the same role in
6 contributing to the water columns?
7 A. I think so.
8 Q. Does that statement hold equally true for
9 the blue-greens and greens and desmids and diatoms?
10 A. Right. I think it is important where the
11 periphyton are growing or, for instance, periphyton
12 growing on the bottom will contribute more oxygen
13 throughout the water column than phytoplankton
14 growing within the water column, or something growing
15 like a coating, a slime or something on top of the
16 water column.
17 Q. What about the periphyton mat that's
18 typically found in the Everglades?
19 A. That's going to produce oxygen that's
20 going to bubble up throughout the water column,
21 supersaturated.
22 Q. Would you expect to see different
23 dissolved oxygen concentrations between one
24 environment that is predominantly with blue-greens
25 and another environment that was heavily predominated
89
1 -- let's say it has less blue-greens and more of the
2 greens and the diatoms?
3 A. Not because of the composition of the
4 periphyton, the biomass could make a difference.
5 Q. The biomass of the periphyton?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. How can the biomass, distinct from the
8 composition, affect the dissolved oxygen
9 concentration?
10 A. Potentially, the greater the biomass, the
11 greater the photosynthesis.
12 Q. In other words, if you have --
13 A. Unless you are photosynthesizing at
14 different rates by taxonomy, and I don't have any
15 information on that.
16 Q. So if you have a lot of periphyton in
17 there, you can have more photosynthesis and more
18 dissolved oxygen?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And, correspondingly, if you have little
21 in terms of biomass, lesser dissolved oxygen?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Turn to the last page, figure 16 of this
24 report. This graph indicates on the left-hand margin
25 or left-hand side dissolved oxygen in terms of
90
1 milligrams per liter. And then in the right, it is
2 over time, and you see fluctuations here, high
3 fluctuations in terms of the nonenriched site, and a
4 lower overall dissolved oxygen concentration in
5 dampened fluctuations in the enriched site.
6 Would you suppose from this graph and
7 based on what you just told me, that the enriched
8 site had a lower biomass of periphyton?
9 A. Either it had a lower biomass of
10 periphyton or it had an enormous additional biomass
11 of decomposing material.
12 Q. And that decomposing material, like dead
13 plants, would be pulling dissolved oxygen out of the
14 water?
15 A. Right.
16 Q. I want you to examine what was also
17 produced in 1991 entitled: Quantitative Comparison
18 of Periphyton as Food for Aquatic Animals in the
19 Southern Everglades.
20 That's Exhibit 6.
21 (Deposition Exhibit 6 was marked for
22 identification)
23 BY MR. HYDE:
24 Q. Were you again the primary author of this
25 document?
91
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Who are Robert Pope and Peter Schroeder,
3 were they assistants of yours?
4 A. They were assisting me in the study, yes.
5 Q. For what purpose was this paper prepared?
6 A. It was sort of an update of an analysis of
7 data that I had collected earlier, in the early
8 1980s.
9 Q. Were you utilizing the same data then?
10 A. Yes, I was.
11 Q. Do you regard this paper as being
12 consistent with your earlier analysis, particularly
13 as it relates to periphyton as a food source?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Did you reach any different conclusions as
16 a result of this paper than were expressed in your
17 previous paper, I think of 1981?
18 A. I would say no, I didn't.
19 Q. In the abstract of this paper, which is
20 the second page of the document, you state:
21 "Blue-green algae were less well represented in
22 digestive tracts than in the environment; and diatoms
23 and green algae, particularly desmids, were better
24 represented in the digestive tracts than in the
25 environment."
92
1 Was this just a restatement of the results
2 that were in your earlier paper?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Similarly, the last paragraph of the
5 abstract reads: "Pilot-study results have water
6 management implications because previous studies have
7 suggested that shortened hydroperiods of nutrient
8 enrichment lead to near monocultures of blue-green
9 algae --"
10 A. I'm sorry, what page is that on?
11 Q. This is the abstract page.
12 A. The first page?
13 Q. Yes, the second full paragraph.
14 A. That "of" should be an "or."
15 Q. "That shortened hydroperiod or," okay.
16 So the phrase should read: "Pilot-study
17 results have water management implications because
18 previous studies have suggested that shortened
19 hydroperiods or nutrient enrichment leads to near
20 monocultures of blue-green algae, reducing the
21 proportion of diatoms and green algae in
22 periphyton."?
23 A. Yes. When I refer to "nutrient
24 enrichment," I am referring to David Swift's work.
25 Q. Other than David Swift's work, do you have
93
1 any basis for making that conclusion?
2 A. Well, I did, I believe I do have a
3 regressional relationship in my study that also
4 includes that.
5 Q. Where you have both a shortened
6 hydroperiod and nutrient enrichment, which has the
7 more dramatic impact on producing these monocultures
8 of blue-green algae?
9 MR. McGRATH: Objection to form.
10 THE WITNESS: Shall I answer the question?
11 MR. HYDE: Yes.
12 THE WITNESS: A shortened hydroperiod will
13 suppress the effect of the phosphorus, the nutrient
14 enrichment.
15 BY MR. HYDE:
16 Q. The next document I would like you to look
17 at is titled at the top of the page: Affidavit -
18 J.A. Browder.
19 That will be Exhibit 7.
20 (Deposition Exhibit 7 was marked for
21 identification)
22 BY MR. HYDE:
23 Q. Did you prepare this affidavit?
24 A. Would you let me read it, please?
25 Q. Sure.
94
1 (Pause)
2 A. I don't honestly remember the reason for
3 writing this, but I'm sure I did write it, and I
4 certainly signed it.
5 Q. Was this prepared for litigation?
6 A. I don't know. It doesn't say why it was
7 prepared, why I was asked to do it.
8 Q. The next document is Comments of Joan A.
9 Browder, Southeast Fisheries Center, and I gather it
10 to be a comments and recommendations concerning the
11 Everglades Nutrient Removal Project.
12 Do you recognize this document? This
13 should be Exhibit 8.
14 (Deposition Exhibit 8 was marked for
15 identification)
16 A. This cover sheet looks strange to me. I
17 wonder if this was written by somebody else from a
18 talk I gave.
19 Q. It could be. I think the cover page is
20 just a dividing section of a larger part, but do you
21 recognize the document which begins on the second
22 page?
23 A. I believe this is a talk that I gave, a
24 presentation I gave at a meeting in West Palm Beach.
25 Q. On page 3 of the document, you list
95
1 factors influential on periphyton photosynthesis
2 and/or calcite precipitation, and those factors are:
3 Water chemistry, water depth, hydroperiod, macrophyte
4 species, current and fire.
5 I think we have discussed the first
6 several, but we haven't discussed macrophyte species.
7 How do macrophyte species affect periphyton
8 photosynthesis?
9 A. They appear to affect the presence or
10 absence of periphyton, and there are some species
11 that seem to have periphyton associated with them and
12 a few species that seem to not have periphyton
13 associated with them, and those are listed in this
14 document here, No. 6. (Indicating)
15 Q. Exhibit 6?
16 A. Exhibit 6.
17 Q. Can you tell me where they appear in
18 Exhibit 6?
19 A. No, that's the wrong one, I don't mean
20 Exhibit 6, I mean Exhibit 5, and at the bottom of
21 page 11 is where it starts.
22 Q. This begins with the subheading:
23 Association with Macrophytes at the bottom of page
24 11?
25 A. Right. It mentions three species that are
96
1 not normally encrusted at the end of that paragraph.
2 Q. Bladderwort?
3 A. Yellow-flowered bladderwort --
4 Q. Yellow-flowered bladderwort, pipewort, and
5 white water lily.
6 A. The purple-flowered bladderwort is
7 encrusted.
8 Q. The previous sentence indicates that
9 sawgrass, among others, is readily coated by
10 periphyton. What about cattails?
11 A. I think not. Very dense sawgrass and very
12 dense cattails probably would not be encrusted
13 because of the shading effect and maybe other
14 effects, but shading alone could cause it.
15 Q. Would you expect to find periphyton on
16 cattails?
17 A. Not dense cattails.
18 Q. What about the occasional cattail?
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. But you still wouldn't expect to find it
21 on dense stands of any macrophyte?
22 A. Any emergent macrophyte.
23 Q. What do you mean by an "emergent
24 macrophyte"?
25 A. One that sticks its leaves up out of the
97
1 water.
2 Q. That's all due to the vegetative shading?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When you are talking about macrophytes as
5 being influential in periphyton photosynthesis, at
6 least in terms of sawgrass and cattails, you are
7 talking primarily about whether they are so dense
8 that they shade out the periphyton. Is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Is there any other aspect of either
11 sawgrass or cattails that influences periphyton?
12 A. Not that I know of directly.
13 Q. Are there any indirect effects?
14 A. Not any effects of the macrophyte itself
15 on the periphyton itself that I know of.
16 Q. On page 3 of Exhibit 8 under the
17 subheading Macrophyte Species, the phrase "Ability to
18 extract CO2 from HC03."
19 What did you mean by that?
20 A. Let me come up to date where you are. I
21 don't see that.
22 MS. STARK: Page 3.
23 BY MR. HYDE:
24 Q. Subheading: Macrophyte Species, Exhibit
25 8.
98
1 A. Okay.
2 Q. What does that phrase "Ability to extract
3 CO2 from HCO3" mean?
4 A. Well, they will be affecting the water
5 chemistry, some species could affect the water
6 chemistry and the calcite precipitation.
7 Q. What species do that?
8 A. Blue-green algae.
9 Q. I think we are in a different period. I
10 think you are looking at the hydroperiod section.
11 A. Yes, I am, I am confused.
12 Q. I'm under the Macrophyte Section which is
13 just below it.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. Then the third line below the Macrophyte
16 Species, the subheading is "Ability to extract CO2
17 from HCO3."
18 A. Right. This would be speaking of
19 submergent macrophytes.
20 Q. Well, how does this phenomenon occur then
21 with them?
22 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
23 question.
24 BY MR. HYDE:
25 Q. Let me see if I can ask the question in a
99
1 different way then.
2 You have indicated here that macrophyte
3 species influence periphyton photosynthesis and/or
4 calcite precipitation in a variety of factors under
5 the subheading?
6 A. Right.
7 Q. Density, biomass, production, senescence
8 rate, growth form, and the third one is ability to
9 extract CO2 from HCO3.
10 A. Well, all the plants need CO2 to make
11 sugar in photosynthesis. Some plants are able to
12 take their CO2, extract it from the bicarbonate,
13 HCO3, in the water, so they have an additional source
14 of CO2 to make their sugars, and they affect the
15 water chemistry because extracting the CO2 from the
16 bicarbonate affects the water chemistry.
17 Q. And thereby affects the periphyton because
18 of the calcite?
19 A. Because of the calcite precipitation.
20 Q. What about that fourth category,
21 "production and release of soluble compounds by
22 living plants and decaying parts"?
23 A. Well, this is something I have been
24 talking about before. Emergent plants take their CO2
25 out of the air, and then they fall in the water and
100
1 decompose and release CO2. So they are having a very
2 different effect on the chemistry of the water than
3 the plants that grow in the water and extract their
4 CO2 from the water and release it to the water. The
5 emergents are adding CO2 to the water column
6 permanently.
7 Q. The next category beneath Macrophyte
8 Species is Current.
9 How does current influence periphyton
10 photosynthesis?
11 A. Well, it can move one set of water with
12 one set of properties from one place to another
13 place, and in that way, something could happen at the
14 second place that wouldn't ordinarily happen there
15 just with the water that was ordinarily on top of it.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. And that's really all I know about that.
18 Q. The last category there is Fire: Timing
19 and Intensity.
20 How does that affect periphyton
21 photosynthesis?
22 A. Well, my only information is from Van
23 Meter-Kasanof, and she observed that calcareous
24 blue-green periphyton colonized an area of Shark
25 Slough that had recently burned during a drought, and
101
1 before that, she had only found calcareous green
2 periphyton. So the fire seemed to cause colonization
3 by blue-greens.
4 Q. On page 7, there's a subheading called
5 Grazing?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Which I assume to mean feeding on the
8 periphyton by tadpoles and other small creature?
9 A. Feeding, yes.
10 Q. And the first sentence suggests that
11 "Fundamental ecological principles suggest that, in a
12 balanced ecosystem, grazing will promote rather than
13 retard periphyton coverage, photosynthesis, and
14 calcite precipitation because it will stimulate
15 energy flow through the system," citing Odum 1983?
16 A. Right.
17 Q. Do you agree with that proposition?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Is there any reason to disagree with the
20 proposition?
21 A. Well, the only qualifying factor is they
22 ate it all up.
23 Q. Good point.
24 If more grazing is occurring as a result
25 of, say, benthic invertebrates, tadpoles, you would
102
1 expect periphyton coverage, photosynthesis, and
2 calcite precipitation to be increased?
3 A. Yes.
4 MR. HYDE: Let's take five or 10 minutes.
5 (Recess)
6 BY MR. HYDE:
7 Q. Doctor, my notes indicate that you have
8 developed a model for community dynamics of
9 periphyton in the Everglades. Have you done that?
10 A. Well, it is in here. (Indicating)
11 Q. Which document are you referring to?
12 A. This is No. 5.
13 Q. Could you point out to me where you have
14 discussed that in this paper?
15 A. Okay, let me, first of all, show you the
16 picture.
17 The picture is Figure 8, and let's see
18 where I discuss it.
19 Q. Maybe you could just describe to me how
20 this model works. I like models, they are readily
21 understandable to me.
22 A. Good. It is referred to on page 51, but I
23 think that's not the only place it is referred to.
24 Page 46, Classification of Periphyton
25 Types, that section I think is where the model is. I
103
1 am looking at two factors, what we could call the
2 dependent factors here, and one is the periphyton
3 composition and the other is the extent of
4 calcification, calcite encrustation of periphyton.
5 And this is to show how the three factors,
6 hydroperiod, hydroperiod and water depth being
7 correlates, and the degree of calcium carbonate
8 saturation in a phosphorus arrangement can affect the
9 composition of the periphyton and the degree of
10 encrustation, whether it is encrusted or not.
11 So up at the top we have the low-calcite
12 precipitation, down at the bottom we have the
13 calcareous, and calcareous periphyton is promoted by
14 short hydroperiods, a high degree of calcium
15 carbonate saturation, and low phosphorus enrichment,
16 low percent phosphorus.
17 Up at the top of the chart, it is
18 low-calcite precipitation, which is favored by long
19 hydroperiod or high phosphorus enrichment or a low
20 degree of calcium carbonate saturation, and I show
21 where on this chart you might find these different
22 dominated situations, with microcoleus dominating in
23 the phosphorus enriched situation of the higher
24 hydroperiod, longer hydroperiods, and there would be
25 no mat.
104
1 And the green-rich calcareous mat-forming
2 in periphytons could occur at intermediate degrees of
3 calcium carbonate saturation and hydroperiod, and the
4 same with the diatom-rich calcareous mat-forming
5 material.
6 Then the high dominated, Scytonema
7 dominated calcareous mat-forming algae promoted by
8 the short hydroperiods, a high degree of calcium
9 carbonate saturation.
10 Q. So you wouldn't associate Scytonema, for
11 example, with a high degree of phosphorus enrichment?
12 A. No, I wouldn't, but like I said before, I
13 think if you have a very short hydroperiod, it could
14 be phosphorus enriched or not and you wouldn't notice
15 it.
16 Q. Because the hydroperiod is masking
17 whatever the impacts are of the phosphorus?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Between the hydroperiod and depth and
20 phosphorus enrichment, you have "no mat" there. Why
21 is there no mat there?
22 A. For the microcoleus?
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. Because I think you have so much CO2 in
25 the water column, that you are not getting mat
105
1 formation.
2 Q. So too much CO2 is preventing the mat from
3 forming?
4 A. Yes, I think so.
5 Q. Why is that?
6 A. Because it is affecting the calcium
7 carbonate degree of saturation.
8 Q. Affecting the calcium carbonate formation?
9 A. Degree of saturation, the degree of
10 saturation with respect to calcium carbonate.
11 Q. What is causing the higher CO2 in that
12 circumstance?
13 A. It could be a high amount of organic
14 material decomposing on the bottom.
15 Q. Does the depth of the water have any
16 relationship to that as well?
17 A. Well, it could, yes.
18 Q. To that as well?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. How?
21 A. Because it would retard the release, the
22 diffusion of the CO2, and it would be promoting the
23 growth of the emergent vegetation.
24 Q. Such as sawgrass and cattails?
25 A. Right.
106
1 Q. In that circumstance, it doesn't really
2 matter whether it is sawgrass or cattails, would that
3 be correct?
4 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
5 question.
6 You may answer it.
7 THE WITNESS: If it is dense emergent
8 vegetation, that alone might be causing that
9 situation. It is possible that cattails, though,
10 decomposes more readily than sawgrass, and I believe
11 that's the case.
12 BY MR. HYDE:
13 Q. Do you have an opinion as to what the
14 causative agent is for cattails predominating in an
15 area as opposed to, say, sawgrass?
16 A. I have material that we presented in this
17 document about the occurrence of sawgrass in the
18 upper portion of Conservation Area 2 A that suggests
19 that the cattails stands were related to the high
20 phosphorus concentration in the canal water.
21 Q. Do you consider yourself an expert in
22 cattail physiology?
23 A. No, I don't.
24 Q. So in that respect, you were relying on
25 whatever information that's been provided to you?
107
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Where in this model would you place a
3 background Everglades National Park area?
4 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
5 question.
6 BY MR. HYDE:
7 Q. Do you understand my question?
8 A. A background area?
9 Q. Yes, that is, a relatively pristine,
10 natural background area in terms of where it would
11 fit in this model?
12 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
13 question.
14 BY MS. HYDE:
15 Q. You may answer. Figure 8, I think.
16 A. Along here. (Indicating)
17 Q. Basically at the middle of the page, over
18 by the notation "Green-rich Calcareous Mat-forming"
19 and "Diatom-rich Calcareous Mat-forming"?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And doing your research for your 1981
22 study, did you find areas that were characteristic of
23 some of these other categories, such as the top of
24 the page, "Desmid-rich No Mat"?
25 A. No, I didn't. That would be the one that
108
1 the research by Pat Gleason shows. My work was
2 basically from this middle of the page down.
3 (Indicating)
4 Q. I see.
5 Do you know where Mr. Gleason's work was
6 concentrated?
7 A. In Conservation Area 1.
8 Q. That's the South Florida environment?
9 A. In the middle of it, in the middle of
10 Conservation Area 1.
11 Q. He didn't find a periphyton mat there?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. Do you know whether he was examining
14 nutrient-enriched waters, or, for lack of a better
15 term, background --
16 A. Background.
17 Q. Background water, okay.
18 Where would Dave Swift's work fit on this
19 model?
20 A. It would fit from the middle of the page
21 up. Swift didn't look at the desmid-rich
22 environment, he would be looking at these other two
23 items. (Indicating)
24 Q. So he would be looking at hydroperiod and
25 depth and phosphorus enrichment gradients, I guess?
109
1 In other words, he was looking at phosphorus
2 enrichment?
3 A. I may be wrong, excuse me. He may have
4 looked at that desmid-rich site.
5 (Pause)
6 A. I believe he might have because he had the
7 list of species for different types of environments.
8 Let me see.
9 (Pause)
10 A. Yes, he covered all of it.
11 MR. HYDE: This should be Exhibit 9.
12 (Deposition Exhibit 9 was marked for
13 identification)
14 BY MR. HYDE:
15 Q. I would like to call your attention to a
16 document labeled Exhibit 9, which is a letter dated
17 December 22, 1989 to John Wodraska from you with some
18 attachments as well.
19 First of all, do you recognize this
20 letter?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And you prepared it, I take it?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. On the fourth page of this document --
25 A. They are not numbered.
110
1 Q. No, they don't appear to be.
2 The numbered paragraph 1 reads: "Water
3 quality problems are interrelated with water quantity
4 problems, and water quantity problems and solutions
5 must be addressed in the SWIM Plan."
6 When you made this comment, were you
7 referring to earlier drafts of the SWIM Plan, and by
8 that I mean prior to the adopted one?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did you regard those earlier drafts
11 failures to address water quantity as being a
12 problem?
13 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
14 question.
15 You can answer.
16 BY MR. HYDE:
17 Q. Or shortcomings.
18 MR. McGRATH: I join in it.
19 BY MR. HYDE:
20 Q. Let me back up and start over.
21 Did the earlier drafts of the SWIM Plan
22 deal with water quantity as well as water quality?
23 A. I think it did deal with water quantity
24 some in the establishment of the buffer areas.
25 Q. Did you regard those earlier draft
111
1 treatments of water quantity to be inadequate?
2 A. This was a good element. It has been a
3 long time since I reviewed this, and it is very hard
4 for me to answer these questions.
5 Q. Well, my reading of this statement here
6 implies to me at least that you felt that there was
7 some shortcomings in the drafts that were in
8 existence at that time in terms of how they addressed
9 water quantity problems. Is that a fair surmise on
10 my part?
11 A. It may be, but it also could be that I am
12 reinforcing something about the plan, and I'm not
13 certain because I think I would have to look at the
14 plan again to tell you.
15 Q. Have you examined in any detail the
16 adopted Everglades SWIM Plan?
17 A. I have looked at it.
18 Q. Do you know whether it examines or
19 addresses these issues of water quantity?
20 A. I don't think it addresses water quantity.
21 Q. Do you regard that omission as a
22 shortcoming in the plan?
23 A. You know, before I can comment on the
24 plan, I would want to go back and read it.
25 MR. McGRATH: I would object. Obviously
112
1 the deposition is not a quiz of this witness's memory
2 of something that we haven't even established how
3 long ago she may have looked at it or with what
4 degree of thoroughness she looked at it. So if the
5 plan is here, if you want to ask her questions about
6 it, let her review it.
7 MR. HYDE: I guess we could do that, but
8 as you all know, this is a very long document and we
9 could spend the next three days sitting in here while
10 you read it. It has taken me days to read it. I am
11 just simply trying to find out what her knowledge is
12 about something, and if she doesn't feel comfortable
13 with answering the question, that's fine, but I
14 thought it was a fair question.
15 She did indicate that she had read it, and
16 she did indicate also that it didn't appear to
17 address water quantity, and I am just asking a
18 follow-up to that, whether that's a shortcoming.
19 MS. STARK: Is there a question on the
20 floor?
21 BY MR. HYDE:
22 Q. The question is, is that a shortcoming in
23 your mind?
24 MS. STARK: I will object to the form of
25 the question.
113
1 BY MR. HYDE:
2 Q. If you don't want to answer it or care not
3 to answer it, just tell me why and that's fine, we
4 will go on to something else.
5 A. I think water quantity is an important
6 question and an important thing to solve.
7 Q. Turning to the first page of your specific
8 comments, the page after your signature.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. On the top of the page, Specific Comments,
11 which relates to page 59 paragraph 3, is the
12 statement: "In this paragraph it should be stated
13 that water quality is strongly affected by the
14 management of water quantity, and water quality
15 problems cannot be adequately addressed in the
16 Everglades SWIM Plan without addressing water
17 quantity management."
18 Do you continue to subscribe to that view?
19 MS. STARK: Let me object to the form of
20 the question and request that you show her page 59,
21 paragraph 3.
22 MR. McGRATH: I would join.
23 MR. HYDE: I don't have the document with
24 me. We can take a break and get it, but I don't
25 think it is necessary. I'm just asking her if she
114
1 agrees. I don't think it is necessary that I pull
2 out the document.
3 MS. STARK: I think it is critical because
4 the first part of this question is "In this
5 paragraph, it should be stated." So I think she has
6 to review the paragraph.
7 MR. McGRATH: I would object. It would
8 tend to be misleading or confusing without knowing
9 the context in which this comment was written.
10 MR. HYDE: Okay. We will take a break.
11 (Recess)
12 BY MR. HYDE:
13 Q. I will ask the question independent of the
14 SWIM Plan.
15 Do you believe that water quality is
16 affected by the management of water quantity?
17 A. I think -- yes, I do.
18 Q. Do you think that water quality problems
19 can be addressed if you don't address water quantity
20 management?
21 A. Yes, I think you can address it.
22 Q. You think you can adequately address them?
23 MR. McGRATH: Objection to form.
24 THE WITNESS: Shall I go ahead?
25 MS. STARK: If you understand the
115
1 question. It was a little confusing.
2 THE WITNESS: To some extent you can
3 address water quality by where you direct the water,
4 whether you direct it in overland flow or whether you
5 direct it down canal, because over land, vegetation
6 will take up contaminants and nutrients, and in the
7 canal, they won't, or they will do so less, so how
8 you direct the water affects water quality.
9 And if you do solve water quantity
10 problems and make longer hydroperiods, you will have
11 probably more effect of nutrients, of phosphorus,
12 more eutrophication expressed because the short
13 hydroperiods are controlling the expression of
14 eutrophication.
15 I mentioned before that if water is
16 limiting, then putting in a limiting nutrient isn't
17 affecting it because it is already affected by not
18 having water, and also in the shorter hydroperiod
19 environment, you get more calcite precipitation and
20 phosphorus precipitating with the calcite.
21 BY MR. HYDE:
22 Q. Is it fair to say that water quantity and
23 water quality are inextricably intertwined?
24 A. They are intertwined.
25 MR. HYDE: There should be a document
116
1 around here, a letter dated April 9, 1993, I think it
2 was one of the documents that I got this morning.
3 MS. STARK: Systems model --
4 MR. HYDE: No, this is it, April 9th,
5 1993.
6 This will be Exhibit 10.
7 (Deposition Exhibit 10 was marked for
8 identification)
9 BY MR. HYDE:
10 Q. Do you recognize the document that's been
11 labeled Exhibit 10?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you prepare Exhibit 10?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. For what purpose did you prepare it?
16 A. I was asked to attend a SAGE meeting to
17 answer questions, and after the questions I had time
18 to think of them, so I wrote Peter this note.
19 Q. The second full paragraph, the first
20 sentence indicates as follows: Brown and Caldwell
21 may have underestimated the filtration capacity
22 needed to reduce phosphorus concentrations to
23 allowable levels in waters released to the WCAs."
24 What were you referring to there?
25 A. I was referring to their presentation of
117
1 the chemical filtration, of technology that they
2 reviewed.
3 Q. Was this being proposed as a possible
4 alternative to the storm water treatment area
5 concept?
6 A. Yes, it was.
7 Q. Why do you think they underestimated that
8 filtration capacity?
9 A. I think they may have assumed that the
10 phosphorus concentrations were constant regardless of
11 the flow rate, and they can vary according to flow
12 rate, particularly when organic soils are involved.
13 Q. Were you able to determine whether they
14 did make that assumption?
15 A. No, I never had any response to my letter.
16 Q. What would be wrong about the analysis if
17 they did, indeed, make such an assumption?
18 A. Well, the very times they would be
19 bypassing the filtration capacity would be the times
20 when they would have the higher phosphorus
21 concentrations, and they wouldn't be producing water
22 with the phosphorus concentrations that they estimate
23 that would meet standards.
24 Q. In the second page, the third full
25 paragraph, you question whether the direct filtration
118
1 process might introduce new contaminants while
2 removing phosphorus?
3 A. Right, because I don't know what
4 impurities might be -- they didn't know, I don't
5 think, and I just asked them to look into what
6 impurities might be present with this ferric iron
7 that they might get from DuPont.
8 Q. Was there any concern about whether this
9 filtration process might also remove needed
10 constituents in the water as well as phosphorus?
11 A. That was proposed by someone else, by Ron
12 Jones, I believe.
13 Q. Do you have any views in that regard?
14 A. Well, I don't know enough about it to
15 comment on it.
16 Q. Now, my document seems to be missing a
17 page.
18 A. Which one?
19 Q. This exhibit --
20 A. Yes, my exhibit is missing a page, page 4
21 is missing.
22 MS. STARK: That's the way we got it.
23 MR. HYDE: To make the record complete, do
24 you think you can try to find the full page and
25 provide it to Ms. Stark?
119
1 THE WITNESS: Sure, I better have it.
2 MR. HYDE: I'm not sure there's anything
3 that would concern me, but I just want to have a
4 complete record.
5 BY MR. HYDE:
6 Q. Dr. Browder, were you ever a member of a
7 body known as the SWIM Advisory Committee?
8 A. For the Everglades?
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. I think I was.
11 Q. What was the function of that committee?
12 A. To guide the development of the SWIM Plan.
13 Q. Were you an active participant in that
14 process?
15 A. I don't remember that committee very well.
16 Was that headed by Nat Reid?
17 Q. I don't know.
18 THE WITNESS: Do you know?
19 MS. STARK: You can't ask a question.
20 THE WITNESS: I can't?
21 MS. STARK: No.
22 THE WITNESS: That particular committee
23 was not very -- well, I don't remember.
24 BY MR. HYDE:
25 Q. What about a scientific advisory panel?
120
1 A. TAC?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. Yes, I was a member of that.
4 Q. During what period of time?
5 A. I'm sorry.
6 Q. Do you remember roughly?
7 A. The mid-'80s.
8 MR. HYDE: Let's take about a five-minute
9 break, and I think we can finish up shortly.
10 MS. STARK: Okay.
11 (Recess)
12 BY MR. HYDE:
13 Q. I would like to ask you just a few more
14 questions about periphyton, however. During your
15 presentation to the Everglades symposium back in 1991
16 -- I think it was in '91?
17 A. '89.
18 MR. McGRATH: November '89.
19 BY MR. HYDE:
20 Q. Excuse me, the presentation to the
21 scientific advisory panel for the DNR project, you
22 were talking about periphyton and you made the
23 following observation:
24 "Periphyton plays several prominent roles
25 in the ecology of the Everglades. Along with the
121
1 detritus of higher plants, the algae and periphyton
2 form the base of the Everglades food chain. They
3 make up a large part of the diet of such creatures as
4 Crayfish, apple snails and grass shrimp, which feed
5 many other higher organisms, and this just gives you
6 an idea of the food web that leads to higher
7 organisms from the periphyton, leading -- going all
8 the way to wading birds and alligators and largemouth
9 bass. "
10 A. I had a picture and I was speaking --
11 MS. STARK: Wait until there's a question.
12 BY MR. HYDE:
13 Q. Do you remember making comments to that
14 effect? And I can show you the transcript if you
15 would like to see it.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Do you know what portion of the diet of
18 those creatures periphyton comprises?
19 A. Yes, roughly.
20 Q. Give me a ballpark figure.
21 MS. STARK: Objection to the form of the
22 question. You may answer.
23 THE WITNESS: Those particular are half to
24 all.
25 BY MR. HYDE:
122
1 Q. Do you know what kind of periphyton they
2 are eating?
3 A. Well, those are the ones that we did the
4 analyses that appeared to be eating more heavily on
5 the diatoms and the greens relative to their volume
6 and environment.
7 Q. Are there other creatures that dine more
8 heavily on the blue-greens, for example?
9 A. There were a few that we looked at that
10 didn't seem to select the diatoms and greens as
11 significantly.
12 Q. What studies or analyses reflect what the
13 eating habits are of these species of Crayfish, Apple
14 Snails and Grass Shrimp?
15 A. Which of my studies?
16 Q. Yes, do your studies address that?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Which one is that?
19 A. I think it is item 6, Exhibit 6.
20 Q. Okay.
21 Q. What species of animals were examined in
22 this Exhibit 6 study in terms of the their feeding
23 habits?
24 A. I'm sure I have a list here somewhere.
25 The ones we caught were in Table 1, and we
123
1 looked into the stomachs of all of them, and they
2 were all eating some algae except Golden Topminnow,
3 Bluefin Killifish and Sunfish species.
4 All the others on this list were eating
5 some periphyton, and that would be Flagfish, Sailfin
6 Molly, Least Killifish, Crayfish, amphipods, Apple
7 Snails and the tadpoles. Apparently we didn't look
8 at the tadpole's stomach. Maybe for some reason it
9 was not possible, maybe it was empty, but we did look
10 at the tadpoles in that other study. So on page 2 --
11 I mean Table 2, you can see which ones were eating
12 algae.
13 Q. Does Table 3 reflect in any respect how
14 much of the types of periphyton are being consumed by
15 these various species?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Where does that do so?
18 A. In the first column.
19 Q. For the Least Killifish at Site 1,
20 December -- this is in Table 3 -- the first page of
21 Table 3, the Least Killifish for blue-greens were
22 97.3?
23 A. That was in the environment.
24 Q. In the environment, I see.
25 A. In the gut --
124
1 Q. Was 6.2?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Whereas in their environment, the green
4 was 0.2, yet it was 33.7 in the stomach?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. That suggests to me even where there's
7 very small amounts, these Killifish are getting the
8 greens out of the environment, correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Now, the Mosquitofish seems to eat a lot
11 of the blue-green, doesn't it?
12 A. In August.
13 Q. In August.
14 A. But in December it wasn't. It was eating
15 something different in December.
16 Q. Well, in December, the figures only add up
17 to 37 percent.
18 A. There must be an error there, there must
19 be an error. They don't necessarily have to add up
20 to exactly a hundred percent.
21 Q. Couldn't they be eating things other than
22 algae?
23 A. No, this is just the algae.
24 Q. I see.
25 A. This is an error, but they don't have to
125
1 add up to exactly a hundred percent because of
2 conversion errors, round-off and things like that,
3 but it shouldn't be that bad. I think that's
4 supposed to be -- well, I won't try to guess.
5 Q. It seems, though, at some times of the
6 year the Mosquitofish eat a lot of blue-greens and at
7 other times they don't?
8 A. That's right. I discussed that in my
9 text.
10 Q. I guess the same would be true of Flagfish
11 and Sailfin Mollies?
12 A. Well, I don't know. Yes -- well -- do I
13 have a Flagfish in both seasons?
14 Q. No, I guess not.
15 A. And do I have Sailfin Molly in both
16 seasons?
17 Q. Both for the Flagfish and Sailfin Molly, a
18 good bit of the periphyton in their guts was
19 blue-green, wasn't it?
20 A. That's right.
21 Q. Under the Crayfish listing, you have just
22 an X. Does that mean nothing?
23 A. Well, because what we saw was in their
24 stomachs, not in their gut. We separated the stomach
25 from the gut, and sometimes we had information for
126
1 both, sometimes there wasn't any information, nothing
2 in one or the other of them, so we just used what we
3 had.
4 Q. Well, when you look at the Crayfish, you
5 see about 73 percent, close to 74 percent of the
6 periphyton in their stomach was a blue-green stuff?
7 A. Right. 96 percent in the environment was
8 blue-green.
9 Q. But that would indicate to me that they
10 are thriving in that environment, on the blue-green,
11 correct?
12 A. Well, I don't know about "thriving," they
13 are eating it.
14 Q. And the last page, the Apple Snail
15 environment is 97.1 percent, and in their gut it was
16 89.5 percent?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. So they, too, were eating the blue-green?
19 A. Right.
20 Q. If fact, for all of these species, at
21 least for some point of their year, a part of their
22 diet is blue-green periphyton, isn't it?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. How do you account for the seasonal
25 variation?
127
1 A. The Mosquitofish probably have more
2 insects to eat in the summer than in December.
3 Q. I hope so.
4 A. And that affects, may affect what they
5 need for the rest of their diet.
6 Q. What about the Least Killifish, you have
7 two seasons there. There's a big fluctuation in
8 terms of the blue-green gut content?
9 A. Right, they seem to be really selecting
10 the desmids, eating a lot of desmids in December, but
11 not so much so -- there's two different sites, they
12 are doing something a little differently at the two
13 sites.
14 Q. Okay, I see.
15 Could that be because the desmids might be
16 relatively more abundant at one site?
17 A. Yes, apparently there were hardly any
18 desmids at one of the sites, it just says a trace.
19 Q. But even at the first site?
20 A. There weren't many. They seemed to be
21 going after them.
22 MR. HYDE: That's all.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24 THE COURT REPORTER: Do you want to order
25 the transcript, counsel?
128
1 MR. HYDE: We will order the transcript.
2 MS. STARK: Yes, and we will reserve the
3 reading.
4 (Witness excused)
5 (Thereupon, at 5:00 p.m.,
6 the deposition was concluded)
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129
1 EXCEPT FOR THE CORRECTION MADE
2 HEREIN BY ME, I CERTIFY THAT
3 THIS IS A TRUE AND
4 ACCURATE TRANSCRIPT
5
6 _______________________________
7 JOAN A. BROWDER
8
9 STATE OF FLORIDA)
10 ) SS:
11 COUNTY OF DADE )
12
13 Sworn and subscribed to before me, this
14 day of , 1992. _______ _________
15
16 ___________________________
17 Notary Public in and for
18 the State of Florida at
19 Large
20
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130
1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH
2
3 The State of Florida )
4 County of Dade )
5
6 We, the undersigned authority, certify
7 that JOAN A. BROWDER personally appeared before us
8 and was duly sworn.
9
10 WITNESS our hands and official seal this
11 day of , 1993.
12
13
14
15 ________________________________
16 BARNET I. ABRAMOWITZ, CSR-CM
17 Notary Public - State of Florida
18 My Commission No. CC 097881
19 Expires: April 10, 1995
20
21 THOMAS NEUMANN
22 Notary Public - State of Florida
23
24
25
131
1 CERTIFICATE
2 STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF DADE )
3
We, Thomas Neumann and Barnet I.
4 Abramowitz, Professional court reporters, do hereby
certify that we were authorized to and did report
5 said deposition in stenotype; and that the foregoing
pages, numbered from 1 to 129, inclusive, are a true
6 and correct transcription of my shorthand notes of
said deposition.
7
I further certify that we are not
8 attorneys or counsel of any of the parties, nor are
we relatives or employees of any attorney or counsel
9 connected with the action, nor are we financially
interested in the action.
10
The foregoing certification of this
11 transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the
same by any means unless under the direct control
12 and/or direction of the certifying reporter.
13 Dated this day of , 1993.
14 _______________________
Barnet I. Abramowitz, CSR-CM
15 Thomas Neumann
16 The State of Florida)
County of Dade )
17
The foregoing certificate was acknowledged
18 before me this day of , 1993, _______ ________________
by Barnet I. Abramowitz and Thomas Neumann, who are
19 personally known to me.
20
_________________________
21 Notary Public - State of Florida
Commission No. CC 030636
22 My Commission expires:
July 17, 1994
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