** 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) ) SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT ) DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, ) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA ) WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; FLORIDA ) DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGU- ) LATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, ) SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ) ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et al, ) ) Defendants. ) ___________________________________) - - - - - - - - DEPOSITION OF BRIAN TURCOTTE, THE WITNESS, TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFFS - - - - - - - - DATE: August 24, 1990 PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICE Suite 303, 324 Datura Street West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 (407) 659-4046 ** 2 I N D E X August 24, 1990 DIRECT CROSS BRIAN TURCOTTE By Ms. Nash 5 By Mr. Richards 74 ** 3 The deposition of BRIAN TURCOTTE, the witness, in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before me, DONNA McCALLEY, Registered Professional Reporter, and Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, at Suite 110, 324 Datura Street, in the City of West Palm Beach, County of Palm Beach, in the State of Florida, beginning at the hour of 11:34 a.m., on Friday, the 24th of August, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said cause for the taking of said deposition, which is annexed to the court file herein, on behalf of the Plaintiffs in the above-entitled action pending in the above-named court. The appearances at said time and place were as follows: UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Room 868, 601 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20044-0663 Attorneys for the Plaintiffs, U.S.A. By BEVERLY SHERMAN NASH, ESQ. PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK, P.A. Suite 3636, Two South Biscayne Boulevard Miami, Florida 33131 Attorneys for the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston By JOSEPH RICHARDS, ESQ. SKADDEN, ARPS, SLATE, MEAGHER & FLOM 1440 New York Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005-2107 Attorneys for the South Florida Water Management District By KATHARINE STOLLMAN, ESQ. ALLISON BURDETTE, ESQ. ** 4 APPEARANCES CONTINUED: ALSO PRESENT: Toni Lafuente Ray Roberts Robert Johnson David Buker Frank Draughn ** 5 THEREUPON: BRIAN TURCOTTE, having been first duly sworn, as hereinafter certified, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. NASH: Q. Will you state your name. A. Brian Turcotte. Q. Mr. Turcotte, I'm Beverly Nash, counsel for the United States in this litigation, and we're here to understand what computer systems the water management district has, how they're set up, how they're used, how data is formatted, how it's transmitted, and you are here as a representative of the water management district having knowledge on one or more areas that we're interested in inquiring in. Have you been shown the list of categories? A. Yes. Q. What areas are you here as a representative? A. Items two and three. Q. What is your present title or position? A. Data base manager hydrology. Q. In what division or department? ** 6 A. Data Management Division, Department of Research and Evaluation. Q. What is your job description? A. My duties and responsibilities include supervision of a group of engineers and programmers, also implementation of our hydrologic data base and its maintenance. Q. And how long have been been in that role? A. Nineteen months. Q. Have you had other positions at the water management district? A. Yes. Q. And what are they? A. Water resource engineer. Q. What division were you a water resource engineer? A. Data Management Division. Q. And how long were you a water resource engineer? A. From April '86 to January 1989. Q. And what were your job responsibilities as a water resource engineer? A. My duties and responsibilities included technical review of literature, computer programming, data base maintenance, and limited field work. ** 7 Q. Did you have any prior positions to that at the water management district? A. No. Q. What is your educational background? A. I have a Bachelors of Science degree in civil engineering and a Master of Science degree in civil engineering. Q. Who is your supervisor in the data management division? THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question, please? (Thereupon, the question at line 8 through 9 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.) A. Rob Startzman. BY MS. NASH: Q. What is his title? A. Division director. Q. Are there employees who work for you in the data management division? A. Yes. Q. How many? A. Four. Q. What are their titles and names? A. Okay. Two engineers: Jose Otero and John Fazio, and two programmers: Gene Schlacks, ** 8 S-c-h-l-a-c-k-s, and Marilyn Herring, H-e-r-r-i-n-g. Q. What computers are utilized in the Data Management Division? A. Our Cyber computer and our VAX 8820 and 6310. Also personal computers and Xerox work station. Q. Which personal computers? A. They're a variety of IBM personal computers. Q. What work do you do on the Cyber? A. My work on the Cyber right now is primarily focused on the migration of data from the Cyber to the VAX in support of our new data base. Q. Is there a new data base created on the VAX? A. Yes. Q. Does that data base have a name? A. Yes. Q. And what is its name? A. DB Hrdro. Q. Can you describe what DB Hrdro does? A. It's the repository for our hydrologic data. Q. What is the source of the hydrologic data in DB Hrdro? A. The data comes from our own efforts. We ** 9 also receive data from Everglades National Park, Corps of Engineers, Lake Worth Drainage District, and some other cooperating agencies. Q. What is the format in which you receive data from these outside sources? A. We receive data from Everglades National Park on floppy disk. We receive data from the USGS via dedicated connection, network connection. Most of our data from the Corps of Engineers comes in paper copy. Q. You mentioned receiving data from the Lake Worth Drainage District. A. That's also on paper copy. Q. Are reports or analyses done of the data in DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. What are those reports or analyses? A. I don't feel qualified to give you a list. It would not be complete in any--in any way. Q. Can you tell me which reports or analyses you know that are done? A. I think our recent drought report to the governing board. MS. STOLLMAN: Don't speculate. If you. If you don't know... A. (continuing) Other than that, I--I really ** 10 couldn't--couldn't pin things down. BY MS. NASH: Q. Who would be most knowledgeable about what reports or analyses are done on DB Hrdro? A. I don't know who'd be the most qualified to answer that question. Q. Well, who knows? Who are the people that know of the reports or analyses done? A. George Marban, Tony Federico, Scott Burns. That's all. Q. Are you aware of a list of reports that are done utilizing DB Hrdro? A. No. Q. On which VAX is DB Hrdro? A. The 8820. Q. Do you make other use of the VAX 8820? A. Yes. Q. What is that usage? A. Our preprocessing system is also being migrated to the VAX 8820. Q. From the Cyber? A. Yes. Q. What is that preprocessing system? A. The preprocessing system is our means of processing data that the district collects in a variety ** 11 of formats, such as chart recorders, punch tape recorders, and the like, checking the data and ultimately placing it on our archive. Q. Where would these chart recorders be located that you mentioned? A. Throughout the district. Q. Do you mean within the building or throughout the-- A. No. Throughout the boundaries of the 16-county region. Q. And where would the punch tape recorders be located? A. Several locations that I can't identify at this time. Q. Do you know who can identify the location of the punch tape recorders? A. Yes. Anybody in Data Management Division. Q. Is there a list of where the punch tape recorders are located? A. No. Q. Is there any record of where they are? A. Yes. Q. What record is that? A. That information is contained in our preprocessing system. ** 12 Q. Does this preprocessing system have a name? A. That is its name. Q. Just the prepro--the preprocessing system? A. Right. Q. Do you make other use of the VAX 8820? A. No. Q. What use do you make of the VAX 6310? A. We use the 6310 as a intermediate storage location for raw data collected by our solid-state recorders. Q. What is the nature of the raw data being collected by these solidstate recorders? A. Typically instantaneous values recorded every 15 minutes. The data is usually water level data. Q. Any other sorts of data collected by the solid-state recorders? A. Yes. Q. What is that data? A. Rainfall, pump RPM's, gate openings, solar radiation, wind speed, wind direction, conductivity, oxidation reduction potential, air temperature, water temperature. I think that covers it. ** 13 Q. Where are these solid-state recorders located? A. Many different locations throughout the district. Q. Is there some record of where these solid-state recorders are located? A. Yes. Q. What is that record? A. On a preprocessing system. Q. Do you make any other use of the VAX 6310? A. No. Q. What use do you make of the Xerox work station? A. Document preparation. Q. What is the nature of the documents you prepare on the Xerox work station? A. Memorandums, technical papers, training documents, and any other word processing-type functions. Q. What's the software you utilize on the Xerox work station? A. Viewpoint. Q. Any other? A. No. Q. What software do you utilize on the VAX ** 14 6310? A. The VMS operating system. Q. Any other software? A. No. Q. What software do you utilize on the VAX 8820? A. The VMS operating system and the Oracle data base management system. Q. What is the nature of the technical papers you prepare on the Xerox work station? A. The papers relate to data base design and how our functions interface with the data base. Q. Is there any permanent repository of these technical papers? A. No. Q. Are there copies of these technical papers located anywhere, either on computer or hard copy? A. Yes. Q. Where would they be located? A. Data management division. Q. In what format? A. Some are on disk and some are on paper. Q. Is there any list or record of what technical papers are available on paper? A. You mean is the list on paper or is the-- ** 15 Q. Is there a list anywhere on paper or on computer? A. No. Q. Do you know what technical papers exist on paper? A. Are you referring to all technical papers in general or just the ones of which we've been speaking? Q. The ones you've been mentioning. A. Carol Goff, our secretary, might be a common person. Q. With reference to the technical papers that are on disk, is there any record or index of what those technical papers are? A. No. Q. Who would know what technical papers exist on disk? A. Again, Carol, our secretary. Q. What use does the--do you make of the IBM PC's in the division? A. Use the IBM PC's for preparation of charts, graphs, digitization of strip charts, preparation of correspondence. That's all I can think of right now. Q. What software do you use on the IBM PC's? ** 16 A. Harvard Graphics, Word Perfect, Cross Talk. That really covers it. Q. What is the nature of the charts you prepare on the IBM PC? A. I left out Symphony on the types of software we use on the PC. I guess that's all. The nature of the charts we prepare on the PC? Q. Yes. A. Are maps of locations of recording stations, rating curves for structures, internal productivity reports. That's all. Q. What is the source of the data from which you prepare maps of locations of the recordings stations? A. DB Hrdro or the preprocessing system. Q. And what is the source of data on the rating curves--you said for structures? A. Right. The rating--rating curves are developed from field measurements and theoretical equations. Q. What are the nature of these field measurements? ** 17 A. Field measurements are referred to as stream gauging and follow commonly-accepted procedures. Q. Who does the--these field measures or stream gauging? A. Typically, one engineer and one technician. Q. From your division? A. Yes. Sometimes the Water Resources Division contributes an engineer. Q. By what means do they get the data into the computer once they've collected it? A. Manual entry. Q. Are there set forms they use to collect the data? A. Yes. Q. Do these forms have a name? A. I don't know. Q. Is there any quality checking or verification of the data that these engineers and technicians collect? A. Yes. MS. STOLLMAN: Are you referring to when it's input on the computer? MS. NASH: Yes. A. Yes. ** 18 BY MS. NASH: Q. And what is that procedure? A. Comparison against previous measurements, comparison of the result against expected results. Q. Who does the quality checking? A. An engineer. Q. The same engineer that collected the data? A. Most often. Q. What is the nature of the graphs you create on the IBM PC? A. Say, rating curves, productivity reports, and locations of sites. Q. Do you utilize different files to prepare these graphs, those you mentioned in the chart preparation you were discussing? A. I think I need to retrace what was said. It seems like to me we're retracing the same, the same question. Q. That's what I'm asking you. You mentioned that you used the IBM PC to do charts and graphs, and so I asked you what charts you made, and you went through those. And now I'm asking what graphs you made, and I'm trying to find out whether you're using the same data to make the--what sounds like the same name for graphs as the charts you described. ** 19 A. Okay, I guess I wasn't making the same distinction between charts and graphs that you were. MS. STOLLMAN: Would you repeat the question you want him to answer. THE WITNESS: Please. (Thereupon, the question at line 13 through 18 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.) A. Yes. BY MS. NASH: Q. What files do you utilize to create the graphs that you did not use in creating the charts? A. Can I just try to clear up the whole thing here? MS. STOLLMAN: Well-- A. I--okay. Rating curves are usually--are developed from running a program that generates the points and then they're entered manually. Whether that's a chart or a graph can be up to your own interpretation. It's a visual display. Productivity or those internal-type reports are generated from data from our preprocessing system as to how many data points were placed on our archive and compared to, say, the previous month. That data is transmitted in a file and can then be plotted ** 20 via Symphony. Station locations are usually plotted using AUTOCADD, assigning the coordinates of the given station to that location, and the file is a PC-based file which was created from data transmitted from the Cyber. MS. STOLLMAN: Okay, why don't we go back and try and trace through what it is you want to know. THE WITNESS: I think we're spending a lot of time going over something I think might be very moot, so if you have a question...I am just trying to--trying-- MS. STOLLMAN: I don't want you to go on unless she has a question. THE WITNESS: I'm just trying to help you get to what you want to get at. BY MS. NASH: Q. What use is made of the location maps that you prepare? A. They're frequently photocopied and distributed to people requesting data. They first need to know where we collect data before they can ask for a specific location. It's a helpful process in identifying where things are. Q. When you say "people requesting data," do ** 21 you mean water management district employees or people outside the district? A. Both. Q. These location maps are available to the general public or specific governmental entities? A. Somebody makes a request, we photocopy them and send them out. Q. What use is made of the rating curves? A. We use the curve--curves to compare measurements against theory. Q. Do others in the water management district utilize the rating curves? A. I don't know. Q. So you do not provide the rating curves to others in the district? A. Our policy is to provide whatever information we can when people ask for them. If they were to ask for them, we would probably provide that. Q. But as a general practice, you do the rating curves for your division? A. Yeah. I'm not aware of other people using them. Q. You also mentioned utilizing the IBM PC's for digitization of strip charts. A. Right. ** 22 Q. What is that? A. That's a process by which a line traced on paper with a pen via a mechanical device can be transformed into machine-readable format, i.e., a file, computer file. Q. What is the information that is being traced, what are these strip charts? A. Water levels, gate openings and rainfall. Q. Where are these water level data collected? A. At many locations throughout the district. Q. By what means? A. With a pencil. Can you clarify, please? Q. What's the method of collecting the water level data that are on these strip charts? A. We'll visit them there via helicopter or truck and manually removed from the recorders. Q. Do I understand then that these strip charts are located in recorders? A. Yes. Q. Is there a list of the locations where these recorders are? A. No. Q. Is there some other record-- ** 23 A. Yes. Q. What is that? A. Preprocessing system. Q. You testified that part your job description is to implement the hydrologic data base? A. Yes. Q. What does that entail? A. Managing contractual programming, managing subordinates, designing and developing a data model, computer programming. I'll leave it at that. Q. What is the contractual program that you manage? A. The conversion of our preprocessing system from the Cyber to the VAX. Q. Which you've already discussed this morning. A. Correct. Q. Is there anything else involved in managing the contractual program? A. No. Q. What is the data model that you're designing and developing? A. A data model is a method of describing the data in which we have an interest and how it relates to other data. ** 24 Q. What is the type of data in which you have an interest that you're developing this data model for? A. Station locations, water control structures, and the other hydrologic data which we previously discussed. Q. And what relationships to other data are you interested in in this data model? A. Could you repeat the question, please? (Thereupon, the question at line 6 through 7 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.) MS. STOLLMAN: What do you mean by "interested in"? BY MS. NASH: Q. Well, his description of the data model was it is a method of describing data in which they have an interest and in how it relates to other data, so I am trying to find out what that interest is and what the other data and what the relationship is. MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you understand the question. THE WITNESS: Yeah. MS. STOLLMAN: Do you need some clarification? A. No, I don't. Or at least I don't think I do. ** 25 The relationships between the data are relationships such as a station must be in a county, and a county can contain many stations, or a spillway structure can contain many gates, but a gate can only be at one spillway. Those are the types of relationships among the data that we're looking at. BY MS. NASH: Q. Does this data model you're developing have a name? A. No. Q. Is this data model being developed in Oracle? A. No. Q. Where? A. The data model is a conceptual view of--of data, and presently it is located on our Xerox software Viewpoint. Q. Is what you're attempting to establish a--what he's called a relational data base? A. Yes. Q. Are there backups done on the hydrologic data that you utilize? A. Yes. Q. Who does the backups? A. Computer Management Division. ** 26 Q. Do you do any backup in your division? A. Yes. Q. On what information do you do backups in your division? MS. STOLLMAN: Could you specify the system you're interested in? MS. NASH: That's what I expect him to tell me. A. We make an additional backup of the data in our preprocessing system. We also back up to floppy disk data from our solid-state recording devices. And other people back up files on their own prerogative. BY MS. NASH: Q. In what form is the backup data in the preprocessing system done? A. Nine-track magnetic tape. Q. What is the retention period? A. I don't know. Q. Who would know what the retention period is on the backup tapes? A. Computer Management Division. Q. What is the retention period on the floppy backups to the solid-state recording devices? A. Permanent. Q. Is there a name assigned to these floppies ** 27 that back up the solid-state recording devices? A. Do you mean a collective name? Q. Yes. A. No. Q. How are the individual floppies named? A. They're usually lo--excuse me, labeled with the location name and the range of dates for which the data is collected. Q. What is the type of data that's stored in DB Hrdro? A. The same data types as mentioned previously; however, the data is summarized into mean daily values which are more commonly used by engineers, scientists and planners. Q. Who does the summarization into mean daily values? A. It's an automated process. Q. Is there any water quality data in DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. Can you describe the water quality data in DB Hrdro? A. We--we receive conductivity data from the USGS and we have some of our own conductivity data and some water quality data from the areas north of the ** 28 lake that--that's part of dairy monitoring. Q. Is that-- A. There may be more. Q. Is there any water quality data for the agricultural areas south of the lake? A. I don't remember. Q. Who would know? A. I don't know who would know. Q. Is there any water quality data for the water conservation areas? A. Not that I'm aware of. Q. Who might know? A. Again, I think the size of the data base is such that--well, again, I don't know. And the size of data base is such that to know all the types of data at all the locations would probably be near impossible. But the--a lot of the information that you're asking for could be obtained by querying the data base. I was hoping that might condense some of the questioning. MS. STOLLMAN: Maybe this would be a good time to break for lunch. MS. NASH: It's fine with me. (Whereupon, a luncheon recess was taken from 12:33 until 1:38 pm.) ** 29 BY MS. NASH: Q. Mr. Turcotte, we were talking about the types of data stored in DB Hrdro. Is there discharge data stored in DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. What is the sources of that discharge data? A. Multiple agencies. Q. What are those agencies? A. The water management district, USGS, and Lake Worth Drainage District. Q. How does the water management district collect the discharge data that's stored in DB Hrdro? A. Could you clarify that, please? Q. What procedure do they use to collect the data, the discharge data? A. Discharge data is not collected per se. It's computed or derived. Q. From what is the discharge data computed or derived? A. Water levels and structure operations. By that I mean gate openings or pump RPM's. Q. Are you saying there is gate-opening data in DB Hydro? A. No. ** 30 Q. Is there gate-opening data stored elsewhere? A. Yes. Q. Where is gate-opening data stored? A. On the preprocessing system. Q. Where's the pump RPM data stored? A. In the preprocessing system. Q. Are there other computed--computer data bases that you're aware of where hydrologic data is stored? A. No. Q. Are there other computers at the water management district that you're away of where hydrologic data is stored? A. No. Q. Could you go through the steps on how you access the data in DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. Please. A. First I sign on to the Cyber computer, and then I begin a command procedure which executes the ACCESS program. Data is retrieved in the PRO--from the PRO by using the program, and the user enters commands based on the type of data they wish to obtain. Q. Does the command procedure that you ** 31 utilize after you sign on to the Cyber have a name? A. Yes. Q. And what is its name? MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to that on the same bases I objected to obtaining the telephone number for getting access to the modem. MS. NASH: It's a computer-command instruction. MS. STOLLMAN: Well, then why do you want it if it's such a simple piece of information? MS. NASH: I want to know the name specifically required for on accessing how we access information that's on the computer, and this is how it's accessed. It's not a telephone number. It's the name of the procedure that he utilizes to access the information. MS. STOLLMAN: You may answer the question. A. The name of the procedure is called ACCESS. BY MS. NASH: Q. You next indicated that you execute an ACCESS program. Does that Access program have a name? A. Yes. ** 32 Q. And what is its name? A. DB ACCESS, spelled D-B A-C-C-E-S. Q. Is there documentation or other instruction information on how to access DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. Does that documentation or instruction manual have a name? A. Yes. Q. And what is its name? A. The name on the cover sheet I couldn't give to you verbatim, but essentially, it's the user's guide for DB Hrdro. Q. Are there any internal water management district guidelines or instructions for accessing DB Hrdro? A. I don't understand your question. Q. Any guidelines or instructions written internally within the water management district that are utilized to access DB Hrdro or that assist in accessing DB Hrdro other than this user's guide you've mentioned? A. No. Q. Are you aware of any hydrological data stored in Oracle data bases? A. Yes. ** 33 Q. What is the hydrological data stored in Oracle data bases? A. It is test data for the conversion of DB Hrdro and our preprocessing system. Q. Have you performed any analyses of hydrologic data relating to the everglades SWIM plan? A. Will you repeat the question, please? (Thereupon, the question at line 6 through 7 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.) A. No. BY MS. NASH: Q. Do you know whether anyone else in your division have performed analyses of hydrologic data relating to the SWIM plan? A. I don't know. Q. Have you performed any analyses of hydrologic data relating to what's called the nutrient removal project? A. No. Q. Are you aware of anyone else in the division who performed analyses of hydrologic data relating to the nutrient removal project? A. No. Q. Have you done any reports relating to the everglades SWIM plan? ** 34 A. No. Q. Have you done any reports relating to the nutrient removal project? A. No. Q. Have you done any work related to the Everglades National Park experimental removal program? MS. STOLLMAN: Is this work on the computer you're referring to? MS. NASH: Yes. A. Are you referring to the rainfall-based management plan for Shark River sluice? BY MS. NASH: Q. If that's part of the Everglades National Park program, I am. MS. STOLLMAN: Do you understand the question? THE WITNESS: I'm not sure if we're using the same terminology, different terminology to mean the same thing. MS. STOLLMAN: Can you clarify what you're looking for? MS. NASH: Can you read back what his question was? (Thereupon, the answer at line 10 through line 11 was read by the Reporter as recorded ** 35 above.) BY MS. NASH: Q. Assuming that I am referring to the rainfall-based management plan for Shark River sluice, have you done any work related to that management plan? A. Yes. Q. And what work have you done on the rainfall-based management plan for Shark River sluice? A. I review the output each week of the computer program that calculates that discharge. Q. Do you report to anyone else or provide the output to anyone else in the water management division--district, I'm sorry? A. Yes. Q. To whom in the water management district do you provide that information? A. I think there is a--I know there is a list of approximately 15 to 20 people who receive the output. Q. Do you recall any of the names on that list? A. Tom MacVicar, and I believe the other people on the list are referred to by title on routing slips, so... Q. Do you recall any of the titles? ** 36 A. Division directors of the divisions in our department, Research and Evaluation, and other division directors within the district. That's as far as I can recall right now. Q. The computer program you mentioned that calculates the discharge, the rainfall-based management plan, does that program have a name? A. Yes. Q. What is its name? A. I don't recall. Q. On which system does that computer program run? A. It runs on our VAX 8820. Q. Is there a directory that would contain the name of that computer program? A. Can you rephrase or clarify your question? Q. Is there another way of obtaining the name of the computer program that you've been discussing? A. Yes. Q. And how would one go about obtaining that name? A. I would examine the source code and identify the program name that way. Q. Where's the source code located that you would examine? ** 37 A. On the VAX 8820. Q. Mr. Turcotte, as part of this litigation were you asked to compile a list of computer files that you have? A. No. MS. NASH: No more questions. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Mr. Turcotte, my name's Joe Richards. I represent the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. You discussed structure rating curves a little while ago. Do you know what a structure rating curve is? A. Yes. Q. Could you define for us what you mean by the term "discharge rating curve"? MS. STOLLMAN: Excuse me, could you clarify that or simplify the question? You asked two questions at once. Maybe you could read back the question. (Thereupon, the testimony from line 9 through line 16 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.) MS. STOLLMAN: Are you asking about the structure rating curve or discharge rating ** 38 curve? MR. RICHARDS: Structure rating curve. THE WITNESS: Can I have the question one more time, please. BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Could you define what you mean by the term "rating curve"? A. Yes. Q. Please do so. A. Rating curve is the relationship between water levels and structure operations that yields a discharge value. Q. Do you know what program is used to develop these rating curves? A. There is no program to develop the rating curves. Q. Is there a program used to develop the discharge values? A. Yes. Q. What's that program? A. The name of that program is E034. E034. MR. ROBERTS: E Oh or E zero? BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Is that E zero-- A. E zero 34. ** 39 Q. And could you describe the constituents that are used to develop the discharge values? A. Water levels, gate openings, or pump RPM's. Q. Are you familiar with the process used to generate the data points that are plotted on the rating curves? A. Yes. Q. Could you describe that process, please. MS. STOLLMAN: This is a process used on the computer system? MR. RICHARDS: Yes. MS. STOLLMAN: Which computer system are you referring to? MR. RICHARDS: He said he could answer the question. Please answer the question. MS. STOLLMAN: Do you need some clarification? A. I don't have any problem with it. Theoretical values are computed using E034. The resultant points are plotted and compared against any field measurements or stream-gauging values that may be observed. ** 40 BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Do you know who at the district does this work? A. Yes. Q. Who is that person? A. Myself. Q. Anyone else? A. Yes. Rob Startzman. Q. Anyone else? A. That's all I can think of right now. Q. Who does the work to generate the discharge values? A. The discharge values are computed by the program. Q. Do you know who runs that program? A. Program is executed automatically. Q. Is there an individual at the district responsible for making sure this process is completed? A. Are you asking me if there's just one individual who's responsible to make sure the process is completed? Q. One or several. A. Each technician who works on data is responsible to ensure that the entire process is completed for their--for the data in which they have ** 41 processed. Q. Do you know who the technicians are that process discharge values? A. The technicians do not process discharge values. The discharge values are computed automatically. Q. Could you list the technicians you just referred to? A. There are approximately 14 technicians. Q. Within what division? A. Within the Data Management Division. Q. Do you know how often discharge values are processed? A. Yes. Q. How often? A. Every time new data is made part of the permanent record, the discharge values for that data are then computed. Q. Is this done on a regular basis? A. Yes. Discharge is computed for someplace in the district every day, probably. Q. Do you know how often discharge is computed for the water conservation areas? A. Discharge is computed on a station-by-station basis. I do not know exactly the ** 42 frequency of which discharge is computed for those individual stations. Q. Do you know who would know that? A. No, I don't. Q. Where is this information stored, discharge values? A. DB Hrdro. Q. Is there a period of record for this discharge value information? A. Yes. Q. What is the period of record? A. The period of record varies from station to station. Q. Do you know what the period of record is for the discharge value information for the water conservation areas? A. No. Q. Who would know that? A. I don't know. Q. What about for the everglades agricultural area, do you know the period of record? A. No. Q. Do you know who would? A. No. Q. Who would you ask if you wanted to find ** 43 out what the period of record is? MS. STOLLMAN: I believe that's been asked and answered. He doesn't know who would know, so how would he know who to ask? BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. If you wanted to find out period of record, who would you ask the answer? MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you know. A. Data Management Division. BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Do you know how--after the program generates data points how the rating curve is created on the computer? A. I think I already answered that previously. Q. What software package is used to do that? A. Symphony. Q. And where are the rating curves stored? A. Could you be more explicit or concise? Q. Do you generate rating curve graphs? A. Yes. Q. Where are those graphs stored? A. I retain copies. Q. Where are those copies? A. In my office. ** 44 Q. And how long are these graphs maintained in your office? A. I don't understand the question. Q. Do you retain these graphs for a certain period of time? A. We have no date at which we dispose of them. Q. Are they updated on a regular basis? A. No. Q. Are they ever updated? A. Yes. Q. How often are they updated? A. I think that's too general. Q. Is there some set schedule for when you update a data rating curve for a particular structure? A. No. Q. When do you decide to update a rating curve for a structure? A. Could you read the question back? (Thereupon, the question at line 17 through 18 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.) A. When a representative number samples from stream gauging measurements have been obtained, they can be compared against the existing curve. If there ** 45 are large differences between the existing curve and the measured values, then modification may be made to the rating curve. BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. What individual at the district decides when to update these rating curves? A. I don't think it's an individual decision. Q. Are there several people that would make this decision? A. Yes. Q. Who are these people? A. Partial list would include myself, Ron Miearu, M-i-e-a-r-u, and Rob Startzman. Q. Do you know whether rating curves have been developed for structure S-5A? A. Yes. Q. Do you know when the last time a rating curve was developed for that structure? A. No. Q. Who would know that? A. I don't know. Q. Do you possess a rating curve graph in your office for structure S-5A? A. Yes. Q. And structure S-6? ** 46 A. Yes. Q. S-7? A. Yes. Q. S-8? A. Yes. Q. S-2? A. Yes. Q. S-3? A. I don't know. Q. S-4? A. No. Q. No, you don't know, or no, you don't have it? A. No, I don't have a graph for S-4. Q. Do you know when these graphs were developed for these structures you just named? A. Yes. Q. When was that? A. Over the last several months. Q. And these graphs are in your office? A. Yes. Q. Are they contained anywhere else? A. Are the graphs contained anywhere else? Q. The rating curves. A. Okay. ** 47 Q. Or the graphs. A. Rob Startzman has copies of some. Q. Are they contained in a digital format? A. Yes. Q. Symphony? A. Yes. Q. Is there a period of record for these rating curves? A. I'm not certain what you mean. Q. You have rating curves that were developed in the last several months. Are there any that date back through any period of time? A. I'm still not sure what you're asking. Q. Well, you stated that rating curves are developed on some sort of basis and they are updated so you have these rating curves that were just developed. Are there any rating curves that were developed in the past that are still maintained at the district? A. The--yes. Q. Do you know how far back they date? A. No. Q. Is there someone at the district who would know that? A. I don't know. Q. Do you know how far back the graphs that ** 48 you possess date back? A. Yes. Q. How far back? A. The structures for which I've created graphs have rate--rating curves which are applicable to the beginning of their period of record. Q. Dating back to the--the exact date of which I am uncertain. Q. The period of record for those structures, is that what you said? A. Correct. Q. So that dates back to when the structure was built? A. Correct. Q. And besides the structures we went over, do you have rating curves for other structures? A. No. Q. Do you have rating curves for the S-10's? A. No. Q. S-11's? A. No. Q. S-12's? A. No. Q. Does anyone at the district have rating curves for those structures? ** 49 A. Do you mean graphs? Q. Yes. A. No. Or excuse me, I don't know. Q. Do you know who would know? A. No. Q. In what format is the data contained that is used for generating the rating curves? A. I'm not sure I know what you mean by "format." Q. Is it contained in a digital format? A. Yes. Q. Symphony? A. Yes. Q. Any other? A. No. Q. Where is this data stored? A. On my computer and also backed up onto diskette. Q. You talked about location maps for sampling stations; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Do you know whether these maps contain Loerhan coordinates? A. Could you repeat that question? ** 50 Q. Do you know whether these maps contained the Loerhan coordinates for the different sampling sites? A. The stations are plotted based on state plane coordinates. Q. Excuse me? A. The stations are plotted based on state plane coordinates. Q. In reference to the discharge data DB Hrdro, is there a period of record for that information? A. Yes. Q. Do you know what it is? A. Each station has its own period of record information. Q. Do you know what the period of record is for any particular stations? A. No, I do not. Q. Do you know who would? A. No. Q. Is there--is that information contained on the computer? A. Yes. Q. And which computer is that? A. Cyber. ** 51 Q. Is the Cyber computer and DB Hrdro data base accessible from outside the district? A. Yes. Q. By what means? A. Someone with a modem can dial up the district and connect to our network. Q. Do you know of anyone that presently has outside access to this DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. Who is that? A. Dave Sakema of Everglades National Park, several people with the Corps of Engineers, several people with the USGS, and essentially any cooperating agency who would wish to have access will probably be granted access. Q. Is this read-only access? A. Correct. Q. Does someone at the district have a write-access to this data bass? A. Yes. Q. Could you tell us who those people are? A. Yes. Technicians in data management, myself, and my subordinates. Q. Do these people have authority to change the data other than inputing new data? ** 52 A. No. Q. Does anyone have such authority? A. Yes. Q. Who? A. Myself. Q. Anyone else? A. I think we might be getting into a area of confusion here. MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you know anyone else who has write access; otherwise, don't speculate. A. Well, I'm trying to--you-- MS. STOLLMAN: Do you know if someone else has write access? THE WITNESS: I'm trying to understand if you're talking about actual data values of, say, a water level. If that's the type of data--is that the type of data to which you're referring? BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Yes. A. Myself would be the only person. Q. And under what circumstances would you have the authority? A. I'm not--I am unaware of such circumstances because the opportunity or the--the set ** 53 of circumstances haven't occurred. Q. So you have not gone into the data base and changed data? A. Correct. Q. Has anyone? A. I don't know. Q. Are there any guidelines set up within the district to grant outside access to the DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. Can you explain those guidelines to us? A. Any cooperating agency or other entity who desires to use the data and in which the district would find a exchange of information mutually beneficial will be granted access. Q. Does there have to be an exchange of data to grant access? MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you know. THE WITNESS: Can we repeat the previous question and my response, please. (Thereupon, the question and answer starting at line 10 through 14 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.) THE WITNESS: And now your question was? ** 54 (Thereupon, the question at line 15 through 16 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.) A. No. BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Who makes the determination to grant outside access? A. Myself and Rob Startzman. Q. Are you confident that the read-only access granted to these outside parties you named protects the integrity of the data? MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer that if you know. A. Yes. BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Is there a limit on the number of users that can access DB Hrdro at any one time? A. I don't know. Q. Who would know? A. I don't know. MS. STOLLMAN: Would this be a good time to take a break? MR. RICHARDS: Sure, if you want. MS. STOLLMAN: How much more do you have? MR. RICHARDS: I'm not sure. ** 55 MS. STOLLMAN: Why don't we take a break. (Short break.) BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. I believe right before the break, you said you didn't know how many users could use the DB Hrdro at one time. Is there someone at the district who would know? A. I don't know. Q. Would that information be obtainable from the user manual? A. No. Q. Do you know the source that it would be obtainable from? A. No. Q. In regard to the outside access, you mentioned ENP and the Corps of Engineers, USGS. Are there any restrictions on this access by these parties? A. No, they are allowed to access all the information on the data base. Q. Are they allowed to access it at any time? A. Yes. Q. Is there any restriction on the length of time they can be on the system? A. I don't know. Q. Do you know who would know? ** 56 A. No. Q. And is outside access to DB Hrdro available at night? A. Yes. Q. On the weekends? A. Yes. Q. Are you aware of any problems that would develop if additional outside accessers were allowed on the system? A. Yes. Q. What would those problems be? A. I interpret your use of the word "additional access" by meaning access to absolutely anyone who chooses to access the data. Is my understanding correct? Q. Well, if additional parties were granted access, would be there a problem? A. Are you referring to a problem in terms of performance? Q. Any problems. A. Meaning--there are potential problems. Q. What are those problems? A. In that as the number of users increases, the response time to get to the data decreases. Q. Do you know how many users it would take ** 57 to decrease the response time? A. No. Q. Do you know how likely would it be that response time would be decreased if additional parties were granted access? A. I don't know. Q. Is there someone at the district who would know? A. I don't know. Q. Are there any other problems? A. I don't know. Q. With outside access granted to ENP, the Corps of Engineers and USGS, have you ever experienced problems such as a decrease in response time? A. I'm not aware of any decrease in response time. Q. Are you aware of any instance when users within the district experienced a decrease in response time due to the amount of use of the system? A. No, I'm not aware of that. No, I'd like to amend my answer. Yes, I am. I conducted a training class, and I had approximately eight people simultaneously accessing the data base, and there was a decrease in response time. Q. How were they accessing? ** 58 A. Through the ACCESS program which everybody uses. Q. Are there any other instances? A. I don't recall any other instances. Q. Have you provided data sets to outside entities? A. Yes. Q. Is there a procedure for complying with requests from the outside for data sets? A. Yeah, the proceed--yes. The procedure, as I understand it, is that requests are categorized by priority. We have certain legal mandates that must be satisfied before we can process requests from--that are not part of legal requirements. Q. Are these legal mandates? A. We--for instance, we provide a monthly report to the Corps of Engineers, water levels and flows. Q. Are there any others? A. Not that I can think of. Q. Who handles these requests? A. Most of our requests are handled by Ernie Gallego, our hydrologic records coordinator. Q. Do you handle any requests? A. Yes. ** 59 Q. And do you make the determination as to whether the information will be provided? A. To my knowledge, all information requests we receive are satisfied or fulfilled. Q. Is there someone in the district who is to receive of all these requests? Do they have to go through a certain individual or office? A. Can you repeat the question, please? Q. Is there one individual or office within the district that must approve data requests? A. No. Q. For the data requests that you've handled, did you have to seek approval from someone else in the district before the information was provided? A. Yes. Q. Who? A. Our Office of Counsel. Q. Has that always been the procedure since you've been at the district? A. No. Q. When was that procedure instituted? A. To my knowledge, certain voluminous data requests regarding SWIM plan data have been funneled through our Office of Counsel. Q. Are all data requests funneled through ** 60 Office of Counsel? A. No. Q. Do you know which ones are? A. I thought I answered that already. Q. Only the large requests for SWIM plan data must be--are funneled through Office of Counsel? A. That has been my understanding. Q. Is there a written policy on this process? A. I don't know. Q. Are you aware of any other requests besides these large SWIM requests that have been funneled through Office of Counsel? A. No. Q. Is there a fee schedule for providing data sets to outside entities? A. Yes, the district had an administrative fee policy. Q. Is that a written policy? A. Yes. Q. Do you know the name of that document? A. Administrative fee policy. Q. Do you know when that administrative fee policy was instituted? A. No. Q. Are you aware of a time where there was ** 61 not an administrative fee policy? A. Yes. Q. When was that? A. Can you rephrase the question, please? Q. You stated that you were aware of a time when there was no administrative fee policy. Do you know the approximate time that switch from when there wasn't a policy and when there was? A. Sometime between 1986 and the present. Q. Do you know how the fees are determined when you provide the data from DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. Could you explain that process? A. The fees are based on some formula from the Florida State University computing center and are based on CPU usage. Q. Are you aware of any differences between the district's formula and the formula at Florida State? A. There are some subtle differences that I could not expand upon at the present. Q. Is this formula contained in the administrative fee policy? A. No. Q. Is this formula contained on some other ** 62 document? A. Yes. Q. What document is that? A. The NOS, N-O-S, operating system reference manual. Q. And is this fee formula applied to all data requests? A. No. Q. Do you know which data requests it is applied to? A. I think those requests which require more than, say, two-person days to fulfill. Q. Do you know whether a fee formula is applied in a different manner--or different manner depending on who requests the data? A. No, I don't know--or will you repeat that question, please? Q. Would a public interest group be charged a different rate than private group? A. No. Q. Would a university be charged a different rate than private industry? A. No. Q. Would a city government be charged a different rate than private industry? ** 63 A. No. Q. Would a state agency be charged a different rate than a city government? A. No. And the answers to all these questions are presuming that these are not cooperating agencies that you were referring to. Q. Would a cooperate--cooperating agency have to pay for data requests? A. No. Q. Who are these cooperating agencies? A. USGS, Corps of Engineers, Everglades National Park. There may be others. Q. Are you familiar with the term "discharge code"? A. Could you expand upon that? Q. Yesterday we talked with Kevin Rodberg about the discharge codes for the data contained on the chemical archives system. Are you familiar with those codes? A. I am not familiar with the data on the chemical analysis and archives system. Q. Are there discharge codes for the DB Hrdro data base? A. What is your definition of a discharge code? ** 64 Q. Do you know what a discharge code is? A. If you could explain to me what it is, what it is to you, then I could tell you. Q. The code for whether the water is flowing, not flowing or back-flowing. A. Those--those codes then would not be on DB Hrdro. Q. For the transfer of DB Hrdro from the Cyber to the VAX 8820, do you know when this transfer will be complete? A. No. Q. Is it presently being transferred? A. Yes. Q. Who would know? A. I don't know. Q. Do you know what percentage has been completed to date? A. You want to know what percentage of the data on DB Hrdro has been transferred to the VAX; is that correct? Q. Yes. A. Less than 5 percent. Q. Do you know what software will be used on the VAX computer to access DB Hrdro? A. Yes. ** 65 Q. What is that? A. Oracle data base management system. Q. You stated that the VAX 6310 is used to--for the intermediate storage of raw data from the solid-state recorders. Do you know how long that data is retained on the VAX 6310? A. Presently it's just a test, but it will be permanent storage to tape. Q. Where is it now permanently stored? A. On diskette. That's where--that is where it's permanently backed up. It is still stored on the tape. Q. Do you know how long that backs up--backups are retained? A. Permanently. Q. Where are those backup diskettes stored? A. Data Management Division. Q. Do you have raw data for pump operations, including pump RPM's and pumping times? MS. STOLLMAN: Are you talking about on one of the computer systems? MR. RICHARDS: Yes. A. Yes. BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Is that the VAX 6310 that we just talked ** 66 about? A. That raw data is part of our preprocessing system. Q. Is that data permanently stored? A. Yes. Q. Is that the diskettes we just talked about? A. No. Q. Where is that permanently stored? A. At present, on the Cyber. Q. It's gonna be stored somewhere else in the future? A. Yes. Q. Where? A. The VAX 8820. Q. Do you know the period of record for this data? A. No. Q. Do you know who would? A. No. Q. Who would you ask if you were gonna find out? A. Myself or Ernie Gallego. Q. Where would you go to find that information? ** 67 A. The data base. Q. Do you have this data for pumps S-5A, S-6, S-7 and S-8? A. Yes. Q. What data base would you go to to find out the period of record information for this data? A. Which type of data are you referring? Q. You talked about the period of record for this raw data. A. Would be our preprocessing system. Q. Do you have any additional data on pump operations? A. I don't know. Q. Is there any data on pump operations that is not in digital format? A. I don't know. Q. Is there hard copy of this pump operation raw data? A. Yes. Q. Where is that hard copy located? A. Data Management. Q. Is there a period of record for that? A. Yes. Q. Do you know what that is? A. No. ** 68 Q. Do you know who would? A. No. Q. Where would you go to find it out? A. To the individual files of those hard copies. Q. Are there guidelines set up to protect the integrity of DB Hrdro? A. Yes. Q. Could you explain those guidelines? A. Only those familiar with our procedures and those who have been trained in them would know the commands necessary to access the data base or to update that data base. Q. Do you know what those guidelines are? A. Yes. Q. Could you explain them to us? A. Yes. Q. Please do. MS. STOLLMAN: Would you like the question repeated? A. No. The process is rather detailed but involves updating our archive, which is the preprocessing system raw data repository which we've talked about previously. ** 69 After that is updated, the steps to update DB Hrdro are automated, so the person or technician--or more appropriately, updating the preprocessing system archive would follow command procedures, which are documented in our division. Q. Where are they documented? A. In technicians' guide to processing data in hydro data management. Q. Is there written procedures to follow in manually inputing data to DB Hrdro? A. There is no manual input per se to DB Hrdro. Q. Is there a manual input into the preprocessing? A. Yes. Q. Is there written guidelines for that process? A. Yes. Q. What is that? A. The technician's guide to processing data in hydro data management. Q. Are you aware of any accidental loss of data from DB Hrdro? A. No. Q. Are you aware of any accidental ** 70 destruction of data from DB Hrdro? A. No. Q. Is there anyone at the district who would know if there was a--such loss or destruction besides yourself? A. I don't know. Q. Has there ever been any accidental loss or destruction of data from the preprocessing system? A. I believe there may have been a disk failure that we lost maybe two day's worth of work and we had to go back and reprocess data. Q. So you were able to re-- A. We were able to recover the lost information. Q. Are you aware of any accidental loss or destruction of data from any other computer system? A. Yes. Q. What computer? A. I think the--one of the file servers on the Xerox had a failure some time ago. I can't remember exactly when. Q. Do you know what data was contained? A. Word processing-type documents. MR. RICHARDS: That's all I have, Mr. Turcotte. Thank you. ** 71 (Whereupon, the deposition was concluded at 3:26 p.m.)