UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 88-1866-CIV-HOEVELER UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al., Plaintiffs, vs. SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MGT. DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MGT. DISTRICT; FLORIDA DEPT. OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et al., Defendants. / _______________________________________ - - - Deposition of LISA SMITH a Witness, taken at the instance of the Plaintiffs - - - VOLUME II DATE: December 19, 1990 246 I N D E X WITNESS: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT LISA SMITH By Mr. Hall 248 By Ms. Throne-Conte 403 E X H I B I T S LS Exhibit No. 32 348 FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 247 The deposition of LISA SMITH, a witness in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before me, Louine M. Scialdone, Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public, State of Florida at large, at the Royce Hotel, in the City of West Palm Beach, in the County of Palm Beach, in the State of Florida, on the 19th day of December, 1990. The appearances at said time and place were as follows: UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 155 South Miami Avenue, Suite 600 Miami, Florida 33130 Attorneys for Plaintiffs BY: B. J. THRONE-CONTE, ESQ. PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636 Two South Biscayne Boulevard Miami, Florida 33131 Attorneys for Belle Glade & Clewiston BY: KARL E. HALL, JR., ESQ. JACKIE WATERS, ESQ. Attorney for So. Fla. Water Mgt. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 248 (Thereupon, the witness retook the stand, having been previously duly sworn, and testified as follows:) CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HALL: Q Ms. Smith, my name is Karl Hall, and I represent the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston who are participating in this lawsuit as defendant intervenors. And I'm going to ask you a few questions regarding some of your testimony of the last few days. If at any time my question is unclear, please feel free to ask whatever question you need. If I do not correctly summarize your testimony, I know we went over a lot of areas the last two days, please tell me exactly what your thoughts are on what your testimony is. I just have a couple of preliminary questions. Have you ever been to Belle Glade? A Once -- twice. Q Was that business related? A One it was, yes. Q And for what purpose? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 249 A Very early in my work with the District I made a presentation to a school group out there. Q Was that when you were working in the -- was the office conducting assistance to local government programs? A No. That was when I was with the Public Information Office and I, it was part of my responsibility as a District speaker. And I also prepared school programs and provided those programs upon request. Q This was just general public information to a school district that you were providing? A Right. It was information about the water resources of Florida and the District's role in managing them. Q Have you ever been out to the Clewiston area? A I've been through Clewiston on my way to Fort Myers. Q But in -- I believe you've been with the District for approximately thirteen years? A Yes. Q Have you ever had occasion to be in Clewiston on a business matter? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 250 A No. Q Business related? A No. Q On behalf of the District? A No. MR. HALL: Jackie, would you supply the witness with LS-4 BY MR. HALL: Q Ms. Smith, I believe you testified yesterday that this was one of two publications that you have authored on behalf of the District; is that correct? A I believe my testimony is that this is the only publication that I have authored attributed to me personally, yes. Q Isn't it a fact that you were the editor, I believe, on the 1983-'84 annual report? A I edited that. I did not write that publication. Q And I believe your testimony was that this was a public information pamphlet that covers the Water Management history of Florida from the early 1800's through, I believe, early 1970's? A Yes. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 251 Q As part of preparing to, to prepare this document, did you have occasion to speak with anyone at the District concerning the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control Project? A I don't recall specifically. I may have. Q What, if any, historical resources did you use to prepare this document? A The references that I used -- it's been over ten years since this has been prepared and I'm not certain. There were documents that were available through our reference library. I don't recall the names of specific documents right now. Q Okay. Are you aware that in the early years of Florida's development there was serious flooding problems in the Lake Okeechobee basin area? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I am aware that there were episodes of flooding in the Okeechobee basin area, yes. BY MR. HALL: Q Are you aware that the hurricanes in 1926 and 1928 caused a considerable loss of life south of the lake due to flooding? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 252 A I'm aware after -- MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. Assuming facts not in evidence. BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. Ms. Smith, could you please turn to page six of LS-4? A Yes. Q And the second column, could you read the paragraph beginning "In 1948"? A "In 1948 Congress adopted the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control Project. The following year the Florida legislature created the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control District to act as local sponsor for the federally authorized project. The FCD was charged with the responsibility of meeting the need for flood protection and sufficient water supply and to prevent salt water intrusion, encourage agricultural and urban development and preserve fish and wildlife." Q From your experience at the District over thirteen years, what is your understanding of the purpose behind the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control District? A The Flood Control District was really FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 253 authorized to act as local sponsor -- excuse me -- for the Flood Control Project itself. Q And based on your experience, what is your understanding of the purpose or purposes of the Flood Control Project? A To provide drainage facilities for the Central and South Florida region. Q Isn't it a fact that one of the purposes of the project was to provide flood control protection? MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: Yes, it was to provide flood control protection. BY MR. HALL: Q Have you ever in your thirteen years at the District had occasion to visit water conservation area number one? A I have not, no. Q Okay. In your thirteen years at the District have you had occasion to visit water conservation area two? A Oh, okay. I need to make a correction. I did visit conservation area number one last year on a LOTAC field trip. I have not FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 254 visited two. Q Do you remember what part of water conservation area number one you were in? A It -- we -- I don't know exactly. We were -- the tour was conducted by refuge officials. Q Do you remember when this tour was? A It was December 1st, 1989. Q Okay. And do you remember who participated with you in that tour? A There were representatives of LOTAC, a representative from DER, Frank Lund from the Water Management District and myself. Q And what was your understanding of the purpose of that tour? A It was a field trip requested by LOTAC, so we were conducting that excursion at their request. Q Besides that tour you have never been to water conservation area one? A No. Q And I'm going to be asking you the same questions for the other areas. In your thirteen years of experience have you ever had occasion to visit, for whatever purpose, water conservation FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 255 area number two? A No. Q And the same question for water conservation area number three. A No. Q In your thirteen years have you ever had occasion for whatever purpose to visit Everglades National Park? A I have not. Q I'm going to be referring to LS Number One, Ms. Smith. That's your resume'. I'm sure you're familiar with it. I believe your testimony over the last two days was that you spent a considerable amount of time working on environmental impact assessments or impact assessments. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the characterization of the testimony as a considerable amount of time. I believe that wasn't the witness' testimony. THE WITNESS: I spent just over one year preparing, not environmental impact assessments but impact assessments associated with developments of regional impact. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 256 BY MR. HALL: Q Are you familiar with the term environmental impact assessment? A I am familiar with the term. I have heard the term. Q And what is your understanding of that term? A They are assessments required by various regulatory agencies having to do with determining the effects of any given activity on environmental resources in the vicinity of that activity. Q What do you mean by in the vicinity of that activity? A Well, whatever activity is being proposed may have an impact directly on the area in which the development or the project, the land use that is proposed to replace what is there now. There are impacts directly on the location where the facility is intended to occur and there are also secondary impacts adjacent to or near the spot on the ground where the project is proposed to be built. Q From your understanding could some of FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 257 these other impacts include economic values? A Yes. Q During your tenure at the District have you ever had the opportunity to work on an environmental impact statement? A I have not. Q Have you, during your experience with the District, have you ever been requested to provide input in discussion with other staff regarding an environmental impact statement? A Within the context of the reviews conducted with developments, for developments of regional impact, yes. Environmental impacts were discussed as part of the review of those projects. Q I believe presently your testimony was you're working on the Kissimmee Restoration Project? A No. I am working in the region of the District north of the Kissimmee River basin where the restoration project is occurring. The area that I am currently focusing on is commonly called the Upper Kissimmee Chain of Lakes Region. Q Are you aware whether any ISS has been prepared for the Kissimmee Project? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 258 A I have no knowledge about that. Q Are you familiar with an environmental impact statement prepared for the C-111 Project in East Everglades? A I am not aware of that. Q Ms. Smith, when you were with the Office of Communication, did you receive any special training on the history of the Water Management District? A I'm not sure I understand what you mean by training. Q Okay. I'm use whatever term -- how do you understand it? A I learned about the history of the Water Management District as a result of my duties with the Office of Communication. Q Did you ever attend any in-house training programs offered by the Water Management District? MS. WATERS: Are you talking generic training offered by the District, or related to some specific subject area? BY MR. HALL: Q Related to, during your tenure at the Office of Communications. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 259 A I don't recall any training offered on that particular subject. Q You are familiar with the water conservation areas? A Yes. Q Are you aware of what the purpose or purposes were behind the creation of the water management areas? A Yes. Q And what's your understanding of them? A My understanding of the water conservation areas is that they were created to, to store storm waters and to provide a source of, potential source of water for coastal water needs and also to preserve Everglades habitat and wildlife. Q Would those coastal needs include the urban area of the lower east coast? A Yes. Q Okay. Have you ever had occasion in your experience with the District to work on a water supply plan for basin areas? A Excuse me. Repeat the question, please. MR. HALL: Go ahead and read it. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 260 (Thereupon, the Court Reporter read the requested portion of the record.) THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. HALL: Q Are you aware of the, what a regulation schedule is? A Yes. Q And what is your understanding of that? A It is a schedule associated with the operation of the works of the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control Project. Q Are you aware of what the current regulation schedule is for the water conservation areas? A I do not know the specific schedule for that area. Q Okay. Are you aware what the regulation schedule is for Lake Okeechobee? A I am aware that there is one for that lake. Q During your tenure at the District, have you ever had occasion to work on hydrologic modeling concerning the work schedules? A No, I haven't. Q Ms. Smith, if you'll bear with me for a FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 261 moment, the next area I would like to go into is your participation in the Everglades SWIM Plan. And please feel free to correct me if I don't summarize what your testimony's been in the last two days. I know we spent a lot of time on it and I'll try to make this brief. So is it correct your testimony was you worked on the SWIM Plan from approximately March, 1989 to December, 1989? A I worked on Everglades SWIM Plan activities during that period. Q It's my understanding that your work was limited to the first draft of the Everglades SWIM Plan; is that correct? A I did not prepare materials that are in the first draft. I worked with external groups to elicit their concerns or identify water resource issues that should be potentially included in the first draft. Q It's my understanding from your testimony you did not work on any additional drafts of the Everglades SWIM Plan; is that correct? A That's correct. Q Is it correct, your testimony I believe FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 262 the last two days was that the emphasis was on the public input comments to the first draft of the Everglades SWIM Plan. A That was my focus, yes, the focus of my role. Q Is it also correct your testimony was that you are not and were not aware of research projects being conducted by the District for SWIM activities? A That's correct. Q Okay. Is it also correct your testimony was that you are now aware who wrote or authored any portions of the first draft of the Everglades SWIM Plan? A That's correct. Q And I believe your testimony was that your participation was limited to a few pages on general water issues on the first draft; is that correct? A That's correct. Q Is it also correct your testimony over the last two days was that you have not read the first draft in its entirety? Is that correct? A That's correct. Q And is it also correct your testimony FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 263 was that you did not revise the SWIM Plan in any manner? A That's correct. Q Is it also your testimony that you did not edit the SWIM Plan? A That's correct. Q Ms. Smith, those first draft pages you worked on, was that July, 1989? A Yes. Q Okay. And is it correct your testimony was that you compiled notes on comments on those pages? A No. I compiled comments from staff onto those pages. Q Is it correct your assignment was not to review the text of the Everglades SWIM Plan? A That's correct. Q It's my understanding from your testimony -- is it correct that during your six months working with the Everglades SWIM Plan your primary duty was to assist Joycelyn Branscome? A That's right. Q And those duties included preparing materials for her presentations; is that correct? A Yes. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 264 Q And those duties also included taking notes for District use at the Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee meetings; is that correct? A That's right. Q Were you ever asked to prepare a critique of the Everglades SWIM Plan first draft? A No. Q Okay. Were you ever asked to analyze any portion of the first draft of the Everglades SWIM Plan? A No. Q During the six month time period you worked on the Everglades SWIM Plan, were you ever asked to provide input into any policy decisions? A No. Q During that six month time period did you ever represent the District in an official capacity regarding the Everglades SWIM Plan? A I did not. MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the question. BY MR. HALL: Q Is it correct from your testimony that you did assist with preparing materials for the purpose of meetings on the first draft? Is that FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 265 correct? A Yes. Q Did you ever give a presentation at a public hearing on the first draft? A No. Q Okay. Ms. Smith, I believe you testified yesterday concerning the, extensively concerning the groups involved in the Everglades SWIM Plan; is that correct? A The groups that I participated with, yes. Q And strictly, I believe, you participated with the LOTAC II and the Environmental Advisory Group; is that correct? Everglades Advisory Committee? A The Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee. Q Is it correct your testimony yesterday was that you were aware of several groups working on the Everglades SWIM Plan other than those two committees? A I'm not sure which groups you may be referring to. Q But you are aware that there were other groups working on the Everglades SWIM Plan? MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 266 question. Assuming facts not in evidence. The witness has testified, the question you're asking her, she is not clear of. THE WITNESS: Could you rephrase that or be more specific? BY MR. HALL: Q Most definitely. Is it correct, your testimony yesterday, that you were aware of groups working on the Everglades SWIM Plan such as Hydrologic SWIM Planning Committee, Hydroperiod Task Force, Water Control Task Force and C-111 Task Team? A I am aware that those task teams existed, okay? Q Okay. Is it correct that your knowledge of those groups is limited solely to their existence? A That's right. Q Okay. Have you ever had any discussion regarding policy with any group members? A No. MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the question. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 267 MS. THRONE-CONTE: Join the objection. MS. WATERS: What are you asking -- MR. HALL: The policy matters that she has testified of over the last couple days. MS. WATERS: The witness clearly said what policy in terms of specific questions. She was able to address those questions. BY MR. HALL: Q Ms. Smith, did you ever discuss SWIM strategies with Hydrologic Group members? A I don't know who was in that group. Q Did you ever discuss SWIM planning strategies with the Hydroperiod Task Force? A I likewise do not know who was in that group. Q Okay. Did you ever have an opportunity to discuss District research projects with any member of those groups? MS. WATERS: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. The witness has testified that she has no knowledge of that. THE WITNESS: I am not aware of either SWIM research projects or the composition of those groups. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 268 BY MR. HALL: Q Is it correct, your testimony of the last two days, the substance was your only discussion regarding research projects was limited to Joel VanArman and Dave Swift? A I did not discuss research projects with those gentlemen. Q Is it correct your testimony was that you only consulted Joel VanArman and Dave Swift regarding how to set up and prepare for developing a SWIM plan? A I never consulted Joel VanArman in that capacity. I did consult Dave Swift in that capacity. Q Did you ever, during your tenure working on the Everglades SWIM Plan, did you ever discuss with Dave Swift any of his research projects? A No. Q Is it correct, your testimony over the last two days, that you were not aware of any changes, if any, in the Everglades SWIM Plan? A I do not have knowledge of any changes to the Everglades SWIM Plan. Q Is it also correct your testimony was that you have no knowledge of any research FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 269 projects documented in the Everglades SWIM Plan? A That's correct. Q Okay. Would you take a moment and look at LS-3? Now, Ms. Smith, I believe we spent a large portion of time going over this list over the last two days. I'll just ask you a few questions on it. A All right. Q Is it correct your testimony was that these were some of the people working on the Everglades SWIM Plan during your participation in the process? A Yes. Q Okay. And is it correct your testimony was that there were others that you may or may not be aware of that were working on the Everglades SWIM Plan? A That's possible, yes. Q To the best of your knowledge during the six month time period you worked on the first draft, did you ever discuss specific comments with any party listed on LS-3 regarding the Everglades SWIM Plan? MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 270 question. I believe the witness' testimony was that she did not work on the first draft of the SWIM Plan. THE WITNESS: Can you rephrase the question? BY MR. HALL: Q Sure. Let's just go back for a moment. A Okay. Q Is it correct one of your duties during that six month time period was to compile comments on the first draft of the Everglades SWIM Plan? A Yes. Q Okay. And these were the comments you turned over to Joel VanArman? A No. Joel VanArman provided me with the comments and the text. I simply consolidated the various comments onto the text so that all the comments could be viewed simultaneously. Q And to the best of your knowledge were the comments from any particular party that you remember at this point? A I remember reviewing or seeing comments on drafts provided by Irene Quincey, Tom MacVicar, Mike Slayton, Tony Federico. That's -- FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 271 those are the only ones I recall right now. Q Is it correct your testimony was that you did not have any participation on compiling comments after August of 1989? A That's correct. Q And was that prior to the public hearing, one of the public hearings? A Yes. Q Okay. Is it correct that your testimony was that you never discussed with any reviewers their specific comments? A That's correct. Q And it is correct your testimony was in fact that you only met with Mr. MacVicar once concerning the Everglades SWIM Plan? A That's right. Q And is it correct your testimony was that the purpose of that meeting was to prepare an agenda for an Everglades Advisory Committee meeting? A An upcoming meeting of that group, yes. Q So you never had the opportunity to discuss his comments on the first draft? A That's correct. Q Okay. Is it correct your testimony as FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 272 to your role in the Everglades SWIM Plan was to distribute draft and planning materials and to elicit public comments? A That's essentially correct. Q And you would then bring those public comments back to the District for their use for whatever purpose? A That's correct. Q And as -- I believe your testimony was that your duties did not include following up on the use of those materials? A That's right. Q Okay. Ms. Smith, I would like to ask you a couple of questions on the Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee. Is it correct your testimony was the extent of your participation was to attend meetings to prepare notes? A Yes. Q Were you there as a representative of the District? MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: I was not the District's representative to that committee. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 273 BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. During the meetings you attended of the Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee, did you ever have the opportunity to give any presentations? A No, I did not. Q In fact, is it correct your testimony was that your duties were to prepare notes for informational purposes for other District staff? A That's correct. Q Would you say those duties were equally important as to your job in arranging public hearings? A Yes, I would say they were equal. Q Were you responsible during this six month time period to prepare a summary of comments from public hearings? A Yes. Q Do you, yourself, give any particular ranking of importance between preparing notes of the Advisory Committee and compiling public comments from those hearings? A No. I treat that input equally no matter what its source. Q Is it your belief that the purpose FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 274 behind those duties is the same, to provide comments back to District staff? A Yes. Q And I believe your testimony yesterday was that your educational training showed you that there was a concern to be aware of different points of view, sensitivities, I believe we said. A I believe that's correct, yes. Q Okay. Would it be correct to state that your testimony was that the importance of those summaries was to provide different points of view back to the District to assist staff? A That was the purpose of the summaries. Q Is it correct your testimony was in fact that you were not there to prepare minutes of the Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee meetings? A That's correct. Q Have you attended Governing Board meetings during your tenure at the District? A Yes. Q Are you aware of Governing Board procedures on stating the official policy at those meetings? MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of the question. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 275 THE WITNESS: I am -- I'm not aware of any particular procedures in that regard. BY MR. HALL: Q Would you consider your summaries of the Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee to be the official position of the District? A No. MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of the question. BY MR. HALL: Q Is it correct your testimony was the summaries were only a description of the discussion during those meetings? A That's correct. Q Okay. And is it correct that the membership of the SWIM Advisory Committee consisted of individuals and organizations outside of the Water Management District? A That's correct. Q And is it correct that your testimony was that the summaries did not serve to state any consensus arrived at at those meetings? A That's correct. Q Is it correct that the summaries of the Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee also included FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 276 public comments from individuals present at the meetings? A That would have been included in the notes that I had taken. Q Did you have the opportunity to discuss any research projects with Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee members? A No, I have not. Q Is it correct your testimony was you did not discuss any reviewer's comments on the SWIM draft with the Technical Review Team? A That's correct. Q Is it correct that your discussion with the Technical Review Team was limited to background, how to prepare a SWIM plan? A That's correct. Q Is it also correct that that has to do with your new duties with the area in the Upper Kissimmee Chain of Lakes? A That's correct. Q The purpose of that discussion was to get some technical background on the logistics of putting together a SWIM plan? A More administrative, how to organize the various personnel that should be involved in SWIM FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 277 plan development. Q Were those discussions with Dave Swift and Mr. Mulliken? A I did have some discussions with John Mulliken. Q Okay. With either Dave Swift or John Mulliken did you discuss technical research needs for a SWIM project? A With Dave I did discuss technical research needs associated with the, with the East Lake Toho and West Lake Toho in the upper chain. Q I would like to ask you a few questions, Ms. Smith, on LOTAC II. Is it correct that your duties concerning LOTAC II consisted of preparing summaries of the discussion for council use? A That's correct. Q At any time in working with LOTAC II did you give any public presentations to the council? A I did not. Q Okay. At any time working with LOTAC II were you asked to provide a critique on any of the reports, whether in final or draft form? A No. Q Did you have occasion in working with FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 278 LOTAC II to discuss research activities with the membership of LOTAC II? A No. Q Were you ever asked to provide any recommendations concerning their input on the Everglades SWIM Plan? A I'm not sure. Can you rephrase that question? Q Okay. While you worked with LOTAC II, were you ever asked by LOTAC II members to provide recommendations regarding their input on the Everglades SWIM Plan? A I did not provide recommendations to them. I did prepare summaries of their recommendations. Q Did you ever participate in any of those discussions during the meetings? A No. Q Would a correct summary of your testimony over the last two days concerning the LOTAC II summaries, would it be correct that your role was to prepare the summary of discussions similar to preparing public comments on the Everglades SWIM Plan? A There is a similarity. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 279 Q In fact, wasn't it your testimony that the summaries were not a verbatim recitation of those discussions? A That's correct. Q What is your understanding of the role of LOTAC II, why it was set up? A The council was established to provide some review and, of District efforts to improve water control in Lake Okeechobee and also to provide the District with technical expertise as well. Q Was that on best of the legislature? A I am not sure. Q Okay. Have you ever heard of something called the Legislative Charge to LOTAC II? A No. Q Yesterday you discussed generally some issues discussed at LOTAC meetings. I would like to go over those for a moment. I believe your testimony was that water control was an issue discussed at LOTAC II meetings; is that correct? A Yes. Q And is it also correct your testimony was that water quality was an issue discussed at FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 280 those meetings? A Yes. Q Based on your thirteen years experience with the District, aren't those two issues discussed every day at the Water Management District? A Yes. Q Do you attribute any special importance to the discussion of issues with LOTAC II? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. It's ambiguous. THE WITNESS: Their discussion is certainly noteworthy. BY MR. HALL: Q For what reason? A Because they were formed to provide that discussion. Q Okay. I think we've gone over this too much, actually, but one more time. Please bear with me. It's my understanding from your testimony that you did not participate in any of the discussions concerning issues discussed in LOTAC II meetings. A That's correct. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 281 Q From your experience working at the District, do you consider yourself to have experience concerning water quality issues? A I have knowledge of water quality issues. Q How would you describe that knowledge? A I am aware of water quality issues associated with water resource management in general. And whether it be the condition of water quality at various parts of the agency, efforts to protect water quality, efforts to restore water quality, there are issues associated with providing water supplies of a certain quantity and quality that are all associated with managing water resources in South Florida. I'm aware of that in the context of issues facing the South Florida Water Management District in that regard. Q Have you received any special training regarding water quality issues while at the District? A No, I have not. Q Okay. Based on your experience at the District and in particular with your planning FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 282 activities, would you consider water quality and water quantity to be intricately related? A Yes. Q Have you seen that function in your present job in the Upper Kissimmee Chain of Lakes? A Yes. Q Do you also consider those issues to be intertwined in the Everglades SWIM planning effort that you worked with? A The interface between those two issues was one of the issues that the Everglades SWIM Plan was attempting to resolve. Q Okay. I believe your testimony -- is it correct your testimony was that hydrology in the hydrologic system was discussed at LOTAC II meetings? A Yes. Q Do you have any special training in hydrology? A No, I don't. Q What is your understanding of the hydrologic system? A Hydrologic system is really a cycle that includes precipitation to the ground, where the FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 283 water flows on the surface of the ground, where the water flows under the ground surface and water that also in turn evaporates from the surface of the ground and returns to the atmosphere and generates the cycle again. Q During your experience at the District, have you ever had the opportunity to work on the water model? A No. Q During your experience at the District have you ever participated in any research determining flow rates or storage capacity? A No. Q Is it correct your testimony was that best management practices were also discussed at LOTAC II? A Yes. Q Okay. Do you consider yourself knowledgeable about best management practices? A I have some knowledge of certain types of best management practices. Q Would you consider that a general knowledge or any -- it's not a specialty area you work in, is it? A That's correct, it's a general FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 284 knowledge. Q If you had a question concerning best management practices, would you -- who would you turn to at the District? A It depends. If it's dealing with dairy farming, there are a number of people that I would consult. If it has to do with practices for citrus, there are others, and for agricultural protection in the EAA there are other people who have other expertise in that area. Q Your present work is in the Upper Kissimmee region, correct? A Yes. Q As part of that SWIM effort that you're currently working on, are you involved in the permitting of any dairy farms in that area? A No. Q Okay. Are you aware whether dairy farms are permitted by the Water Management District? A Some surface water or drainage systems on dairy farms are permitted. Q During your thirteen years at the District have you ever been assigned the task of reviewing and/or issuing a surface water FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 285 management program? A No. Q Okay. During your thirteen years at the District have you had the occasion as part of your duties to review and analyze a best management practice as part of a surface water management program? A No. Q Would you consider Dave Black to be more qualified to answer questions concerning best management practices in dairies than yourself? A I don't know about Dave's expertise on dairies. Could I be excused for just a moment? (Thereupon, a recess was taken.) MR. HALL: We can go back on. BY MR. HALL: Q Ms. Smith, I believe a moment ago you mentioned general knowledge of best management practices for agricultural areas. A Yes. Q Okay. Based on your experience, what's your understanding of why the District requires best management practices in surface water permits? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 286 MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of the question. It assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: I am not aware that the District requires best management practices per se as a, as a rule. BY MR. HALL: Q I believe your testimony of the last couple of days was that you were aware of the rules and regulations of the District -- A Yes. Q -- is that correct? Okay. Are you aware of what the requirements are for a surface water management permit? A I have some knowledge of the basis of review, the document that is used to provide assistance to permit applicants and also to provide guidelines for reviewers during their review, some of that information. Q And correct me if I'm wrong. It's your testimony that over the thirteen years you worked for the District you've never been involved in the issuance of a surface water management permit? A That's correct. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 287 Q Is it correct your testimony yesterday concerning LOTAC II meetings was one of the issues was the biological integrity of wildlife in the water conservation area and Everglades National Park? A Yes. Q What's your understanding of the biological integrity? A My understanding of that term is to, what is, what is needed by a particular plant or animal in order to sustain its existence. Q Would one of those needs include certain water conditions in an area, a geographic area? A Yes. Q Are you aware of what effect change in water has on vegetation in an Everglades marsh? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. Ambiguous. THE WITNESS: Could you repeat your question? MR. HALL: Go ahead and read it back. (Thereupon, the Court Reporter read the requested portion of the record.) THE WITNESS: I am aware that water has an effect. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 288 BY MR. HALL: Q Is it correct you're not aware of what effect, if anything, hydrocarry (phonetic) has? A I know that an extreme lack of water or too much water can affect the health of the vegetation and the existence of the vegetation in an area. Q Would an example of that include the drought last year in water conservation area two? MS. WATERS: Objection. It assumes facts not in evidence. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Join in the objection. MR. HALL: I'll rephrase it. BY MR. HALL: Q Are you aware of whether there was a drought last year, last water year? A I am aware that the District has experienced drought conditions. Q Are you aware what the water level was in water conservation area 2-A last year? A I am aware that it was below normal. Q Would you refer to LS-18? Ms. Smith, is it correct you testified regarding LS-18 yesterday? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 289 A Yes. Q And was it your testimony that these are not minutes of the meeting, but your personal notes? A That's correct. Q Okay. I would like you to look at LS-7 and 8. Would you consider LS-7 and LS-8 to be minutes of those meetings referenced in the documents? A No. Q Is it correct that those, that you would consider -- your testimony was that LS-7 and LS-8 are notes, summaries of notes on discussions at that meeting? A That's correct. Q At those meetings? A That's correct. Q Okay. Thank you. I would like to refer you to LS-1. MR. HALL: Counsel, I don't think the witness will need to see it. BY MR. HALL: Q Ms. Smith, are there any educational courses that you've taken or participated in FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 290 during your tenure at the District that are not listed on LS-1? A Yes. Q Which ones? A Over the years I've taken courses on public speaking and preparing presentations, the mechanics of designing and printing brochures and publications. I've taken courses on land development reviews, seminars provided by regional planning councils regarding review procedures associated with developments of regional impact. I have attended environmental permitting short courses sponsored by the Florida Chamber of Commerce in Tallahassee. I have attended programs sponsored by the Florida Chapter of the American Planning Association. Q Okay. Since obtaining your Bachelor's have you ever had an opportunity to take course work or attend seminars regarding hydrology? A No. Q Have you taken any course work concerning statistical analysis? A No. Q Since obtaining your Bachelor's have you FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 291 taken any course work concerning chemical analysis? A No. Q Since obtaining your Bachelor's have you taken any additional course work in any specific science discipline? A No. Q And I believe -- is it correct your testimony was that in college you, the only science courses you took were as part of your core requirements? A That's right. Q Is it a correct summary of your testimony that you have no special training in biology or in chemistry? A That's correct. Q Okay. We spent quite a bit of time yesterday on phosphorus levels. I would like to address that for a moment. Is it correct your testimony was that you were aware of a nutrient threshold level of point oh three -- A Yes. Q -- for phosphorus? A Yes. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 292 Q Is it correct your testimony was that you were only generally aware of that? A I -- MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: I have heard discussions of that threshold in Advisory Group meetings and in LOTAC meetings. BY MR. HALL: Q And isn't it correct your testimony was you were not aware whether that number was used in the SWIM Plan? A That's correct. Q Okay. Isn't it correct your testimony was that you were aware that Volume 3-B of the SWIM Plan had been published but you had not reviewed it? A That's correct. Q What's your understanding of the term nutrient threshold level? MS. WATERS: Objection. The question assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: My understanding of that term is that it has to do with the amount of nutrients within a water body. That either FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 293 -- the threshold can refer to the level that will allow the water body to be stable. The threshold level can also refer to the level at which a change can occur. BY MR. HALL: Q What do you mean by allowing the water body to become stable? A I have heard that term used in association with the eutrophic -- excuse me -- the trophic state of a water body. Q What do you mean by the level at which a change would occur? A The level at which the particular water body may become hyper-eutrophic. Q What do you mean by the term hyper-eutrophic? A It is a level at which the nutrients in the lake exceed or change the quality of the lake and change the vegetative composition or influence the vegetative composition of the lake. Q Are you aware of what the natural vegetation communities are in Lake Okeechobee? A I am not aware, no. Q Okay. During your tenure with the District have you ever been involved in any FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 294 research studies on Lake Okeechobee? A No. Q Have you ever been involved during your tenure at the District on any modeling efforts performed by the District on Lake Okeechobee? A No. Q Are you aware of the term nutrient cycle? A Yes. Q What's your understanding of that term? A My understanding is the movement of the nutrients in the water column in soils and in vegetation in the water body. Q Are you familiar with the term accretion rate? A I have heard that term. Q And in what context have you heard it? A I have heard it used in presentations to the Governing Board and to LOTAC II. Q What's your understanding of accretion rates? A I don't have an understanding. I cannot define that term. Q Are you aware what the accretion rate is for water conservation area one? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 295 MS. WATERS: Objection. The witness testified she doesn't have an understanding of the term accretion rate. THE WITNESS: I don't know that rate. BY MR. HALL: Q I believe your testimony yesterday was you were aware of discussions at LOTAC II concerning soil subsidence; is that correct? A Yes. Q Okay. What's your understanding of soil subsidence? A It's basically the, the loss of soil compaction or the reduction of the amount of soil in any given area. Q Are you aware what the soil subsidence rate is for the water conservation areas, if any? A I don't know that rate. Q Have you ever discussed soil subsidence with District staff? A No, I haven't. Q Is it correct to say that you've never had the opportunity to perform research regarding soil subsidence? A That's correct. Q Would it also be correct to state that FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 296 you've never performed research regarding nutrient cycle? A That's correct. Q Okay. Are you aware what the natural vegetation communities are for water conservation area one? A No, I'm not. Q Same question for water conservation areas two and three. A Same answer. Q And for Everglades National Park? A Same answer. Q Have you ever worked, during your thirteen years at the District, with any District staff on periphyton research? A No, I have not. Q Are you familiar with the term periphyton? A Yes, I've heard the term. Q What's your understanding of the term? A It's a micro organism that is used to assess the health and the viability of an ecosystem. Q Are you aware whether there's different types of periphytes? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 297 A I don't know. Q Okay. Are you aware of whether periphyton communities change? MS. WATERS: Objection to this line of questioning, counsel. The witness is not a hydrologist nor is the witness an economist. THE WITNESS: I, I believe they change, yes. BY MR. HALL: Q And what's the basis of that belief? A Because I have heard discussions about whether or not changes have occurred. Q Are you aware of, based on these discussions, of any factors that cause changes in periphytes? A I can't recall any specific factors. Q During your participation with LOTAC II were there discussions concerning ambient water quality? MS. WATERS: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: I don't recall. BY MR. HALL: Q During your thirteen years at the District have you ever had discussions with FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 298 District staff concerning ambient water quality? A I have not had discussions on that subject. Q Are you familiar with the term ambient water quality? A Yes. Q And what's your understanding of that term? A It refers to essentially background water quality, conditions that -- usually it's used in the context of a regulatory effort to define, as part of defining a water quality standard. Q Do you have any knowledge of how ambient water quality is determined? A I do not, no. Q I would like to ask you a quick series of questions. Are you aware what the ambient water quality standard is for water conservation area one? A No. Q Same question for water conservation areas two and three. A No to both those areas. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 299 Q Okay. Are you aware what the ambient water quality standard is for Everglades National Park? A No. Q How about the main canals of the Water Management District, Hillsboro, Miami River Canal? A I'm not aware of the ambient standard for those. Q A minute ago you mentioned water quality standards. Are you aware what water quality standards are for water conservation area one? A No, I'm not. Q Same question for water conservation areas two and three. A I'm not aware. Q Have you ever had any opportunity during your thirteen years at the District to discuss the application of water quality standards for Everglades National Park? A I have not had discussions about that issue. Q Do you know whether there are in fact water quality standards applied to Everglades National Park by the District? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 300 A I don't know. Q During your testimony yesterday, I believe you testified you were aware that water does enter the park through a system operated by the Water Management District; is that correct? MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of the question, the characterization of the witness' previous testimony. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Join in the objection. THE WITNESS: I have not. I don't remember addressing that issue. BY MR. HALL: Q I believe you testified yesterday regarding water entering Everglades National Park. Do you remember that? MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of the question. MR. HALL: Counsel, I'm just asking her if she remembers her testimony from yesterday. THE WITNESS: I don't remember that particular ... BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. During your tenure at the FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 301 District you've had occasion to work on water supply issues, haven't you? A Yes. Q How does Dade County get its water supply based on your understanding? A Withdrawals from the basin aquifer. Q Have you, based on your experience, ever had discussion with anyone at the District concerning recharge of the aquifer in urban areas? A Yes. Q What's your understanding of how recharge of an aquifer is accomplished? A Recharge can occur through percolation of water from the ground surface and it can also be conveyed as a result of littoral movement underground. Q Based on your experience working with the Everglades SWIM Plan are you aware whether water is moved from conservation areas into Everglades National Park? A Water can be moved from those areas into Everglades National Park. Q Okay. Do you have any knowledge of how that is done? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 302 A Through the S-12 structures located between water conservation area three and Everglades National Park. Q Are you aware who owns the S-12 structures? A They are part of the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control Project that is operated and maintained by the South Florida Water Management District. Q Have you ever had an occasion to discuss with anyone at the District the operational aspects of the S-12 structures? A I have had some discussions, yes. Q With whom, as best you remember? A With Mr. Slyfield. And many years ago with Tom MacVicar. Q Do you remember the substance of your conversation with Mr. Slyfield? A As I recall at the time I was preparing an article for the District's quarterly bulletin regarding the, what's referred to as the rainfall model and the development of that tool to try to determine whether and if a more natural hydroperiod could be provided to Everglades National Park. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 303 Q What's your understanding of an acceptable hydroperiod for Everglades National Park? MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: Acceptable would be the, the volume and delivery of water that is sufficient to maintain the park's natural resources. BY MR. HALL: Q Are you aware of what that water level is to maintain natural resources at the park? A I am not aware that that water level has been determined. Q Okay. Do you have an opinion based on your experience at the District what that level should be? A No, I do not. Q Do you have an opinion as to the flow rate that should be used through the S-12 structures to provide sufficient water for the natural resources of the park? A I do not have an opinion, no. Q Do you have an opinion regarding the quality of water that should be delivered FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 304 sufficient to maintain natural resources of the park? A No. Q During your participation in the LOTAC meetings, are you aware of any discussions regarding classification of water bodies? A I don't recall any discussions. I don't recollect any discussion about that. Q Are you familiar, based on your experience at the District, with the term class one water body? A I'm familiar with the term. Q Okay. What's your understanding of the term? A It is a classification, part of a classification system used by the Department of Environmental Regulation. Q Are you aware what the classification is for water conservation area one? A I believe conservation area one is an outstanding Florida water body. Q And what is an outstanding Florida water body? A I am not aware of the particular criteria used to determine that. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 345 1978; is that correct? A Correct. Q Yesterday we went over that nutrient threshold number. Do you remember what that number was we were discussing? A I remember discussion of point zero three milligrams per liter. Q Is it correct your testimony was that was a number you were familiar with but you don't know where it came from? A I do not know how it was derived. Q Is it also correct that your testimony was you were never briefed on the technical, scientific justification behind that nutrient standard? A That's correct. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form of the question. BY MR. HALL: Q Is it also correct your testimony was you never discussed that standard with any District staff? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: That's correct. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 346 MS. WATERS: Join the objection. BY MR. HALL: Q Are you aware of, during your tenure in working on the first draft of the SWIM Plan, of any research project regarding that standard? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: I am not aware of that. BY MR. HALL: Q I believe your testimony yesterday -- is it correct you have participated in rule making activities? A Yes. MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of the question. BY MR. HALL: Q Could you explain the extent of your participation? A I arranged for support staff and handled some of the logistics relating to a series of public meetings that were held in the spring of last year, May and June primarily, regarding the works of the District rule. Q What is the works of the District rule? A It's a rule that relates to the quality FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 347 of water that is discharged into the works of the District in basins, coming from basins north of Lake Okeechobee. Q Based on your tenure with the District, have you ever been involved in the permit process regarding application of this rule? A No, I haven't. Q What was the extent of your participation beyond arranging for public meetings? A That was essentially the limit of my, of my involvement. Q Were you ever consulted during that time period on the, any drafts or changes to this rule? A No. Q During your tenure with the District, have you been involved in any other rule making functions? A I have attended other hearings held at the District when changes to District rules were the subject of discussion. Q Okay. During your tenure with the District for thirteen years, have any of your duties involved direct participation in the rule making process? A No. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 348 Q Have you ever drafted rules on behalf of the District? A No. Q Have you ever been asked to analyze any draft rules of the District? A No. Q If a citizen of Clewiston called and wanted to know what rules applied to his manufacturing business, would you feel qualified to answer that question? A I would refer him to the Regulation Department. MR. HALL: I would like to have this marked as LS-32. Is that the next number? (Thereupon, the lunch recess was taken.) MR. HALL: I would like you to mark this document, I believe it will be LS-32. MS. WATERS: Will this be LS-31? MR. HALL: You want to just mark that? Mark that one and pass it to the witness, please. (Thereupon, the document was marked LS-32 for identification.) BY MR. HALL: Q Ms. Smith, for the record, could you FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 349 identify this document? A It's a memorandum to me from David Swift dated January 17, 1990. And the subject is "Comments on the draft Lake Toho/East Lake Toho SWIM Plan (Contract No. 88-475-0961)". Q And prior to today did you have an opportunity to review this document? A Yes. Q Okay. Did you also have an opportunity to discuss the contents with David Swift after January, 1990? A Yes. Q Who prepared the draft Lake Toho/East Lake Toho SWIM Plan? A That is a misrepresentation there. The document that is the subject of Mr. Swift's comments was preliminary data collection in preparation of attempts to begin to prepare the SWIM Plan. A SWIM Plan has not been drafted. Q This data preparation, did it result in a document form? A The contractor did present a report to the Water Management District. Q Who is the contractor? A HDR Engineering, Inc. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 350 Q That's a private consulting company? A Yes. Q Do you know where they're located? A I believe they're in Tampa. Q As part of your duties with your new work up in the Upper Kissimmee area, were you asked to also review the data report? A The -- this work was completed and concluded prior to my assignment to this area. Q Subsequently to you being assigned to this area, have you had an opportunity to review the report prepared by HDR? A Yes, I have read it. Q I would like you to turn to page three, the last page. Could you just take a moment and read the first paragraph in its entirety? A There is an underlined heading that reads "Pollutant Migration from Lake Sediments (internal nutrient cycling)." Q Could you just continue and read the first two sentences? A "Lack of a clear understanding (supported by data) of this important parameter has proven to be an embarrassment to some other lake restoration FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 351 plans. It would be nice to know (at least a ballpark estimate) whether it would take ten, twenty or two thousand years before an improvement in water quality might be observed as a result of spending millions of dollars on a proposed lake restoration effort." Q Did you have any opportunity to discuss with Mr. David Swift the contents of that paragraph? A Briefly, yes. Q Do you have an understanding of what he is -- do you have an opinion, based on that conversation, of what Mr. Swift is referring to by "an embarrassment to some other lake restoration plans"? MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of the question. It calls for speculation. THE WITNESS: We did not discuss those other lake restoration plans in particular. My primary discussion with him centered on the information and the conclusions and recommendations proposed by the HDR report regarding the condition of Lake Toho and East Lake Toho and the nature and extent of additional data that should be collected -- FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 352 BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. A -- for those water bodies to define the problem in those lakes, the pollution problem from lake sediments in those particular lakes. Q I believe you just testified that you didn't specifically discuss other lake restoration plans. Did you generally discuss other lake restoration plans? A No. My work was focused pretty specifically on the District, what information was available in the District or outside the District that would help us determine what would be needed to effect a restoration of Lake Toho. Q Did you have an opportunity in regards to this project to speak to David Swift on internal nutrient cycling? A I don't remember any discussion of that particular issue. Q Are you aware of any District research, research project generally concerning internal nutrient cycling? A I'm not aware of whether or not we have anything in particular underway in that regard. Q I believe shortly before lunch you FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 353 testified you were familiar with vegetation in Lake Okeechobee. MS. WATERS: Object to the vague characterization of previous testimony. THE WITNESS: I didn't, do not believe I made that statement. BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. Let me ask you, is it correct that you testified earlier today that you were familiar with water quality generally of Lake Okeechobee regarding its trophic state? A I don't believe I testified about the trophic state of Lake Okeechobee. Q Did you not testify about the hypertrophic state of Lake Okeechobee? A I did not. Q As part of your experience in thirteen years at the District, have you had occasion to discuss with staff the water quality of Lake Okeechobee due to pollution from lake sediments? MS. WATERS: Would you read that question back, please? (Thereupon, the Court Reporter read the requested portion of the record.) THE WITNESS: I have not had those FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 354 discussions. BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. Are you familiar with the term loading? A I've heard the term used. Q What's your understanding of that term? A It's used in connection with the, the contribution of nutrients to a water body. Q Have you had any conversation with staff regarding the loading, loadings to Lake Okeechobee? A No, I haven't. Q Are you aware whether or not the lake condition contributes to that loading, contributes loadings of nutrients to Lake Okeechobee? A The loadings from lake sediments do occur. Q Are you aware, based on your experience with the District, what the amount of loadings to Lake Okeechobee are from lake sediments? A I am not aware of the specific amount. Q Have you ever been involved in any research project on behalf of the District regarding impacts of loadings from lake sediments? A No, I haven't. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 355 Q Okay. Was the subject of exotic vegetation discussed at LOTAC II meetings? A I don't recall. Q During your experience with the Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee do you recall any discussions concerning exotic vegetation? A Yes. Q Do you recall the substance of those conversations? A They had to do primarily with the control of the melaleuca in the water conservation areas. Q In water conservation area one, are you aware of the areal extent of the melaleuca population? A No, I'm not. Q Same for water conservation area two? A That's correct. Q Do you know if there are any melaleuca populations, as you use the term, in water conservation area three? A I am not aware, and I don't believe I used the term population. Q How do you define an exotic species? A A species that is not native or indigenous to an area. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 356 Q Is there any particular test, based on your experience at the District, that you would apply to make that determination? A I am not aware specifically how that determination is made. Q Are you aware whether or not cattails are native population? A I believe that matter has been subject to some debate. Q If a citizen of Clewiston called the District, could he refer to a list of exotic vegetation? A The only -- MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. It's ambiguous to a geographical area. THE WITNESS: The only list or publication that I am aware of that refers to examples of exotics is a xeriscape plant guide. BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. Are you aware whether or not there are exotic species of vegetation in Everglades National Park? A I have no knowledge of that. Q Have you ever had a discussion during FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 357 LOTAC meetings or Everglades SWIM Advisory meetings concerning the expansion of exotic species in water conservation area one? A I believe there has been some discussion about that issue. Q Do you remember what species were referred to in that discussion? A I do not. Q Do you remember who you had the discussion with? A I did not have the discussion. I believe it was the subject of a presentation or part of a presentation made by Dan Schyte of Everglades National Park to LOTAC II. I believe that then Superintendent Mike Findley has also addressed the District's Governing Board and included some reference to that condition in the park. Q During your -- you testified earlier about your tour of the water conservation area one. Do you remember any discussion regarding refuge water management practices, planting exotics in WC one? A I did not -- I'm not sure I understand. Q I'll rephrase that. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 358 Are you aware, based on your field trip to water conservation area one or otherwise, where the refuge practices were planting exotic species in the refuge? A I don't remember any statements to that effect during that visit. Q Are you aware whether there are programs conducted by the District for chemical eradication of exotic species? A I am aware that there has been some experimentation with that methodology. Q Do you know where this experimentation took place? A I'm not certain, no. Q Do you know the time period? A No. Q Okay. What's the basis of your knowledge; something you've just heard? A It's been discussed as a management strategy within the context of managing exotic infestations in the conservation areas. It's in a conceptual way that has been the substance of the discussion that I have heard. Q Are you familiar with the term degragation (phonetic) standard? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 359 A Excuse me? Q Are you familiar with the term called degragation standard? A Are you saying degragation standard? Q Yes. A I'm not familiar with that term. Q Are you familiar with the term phosphorus loading rate? A I have heard that phrase used. Q In what context? A In discussions regarding nutrient loadings and limits to SWIM priority water bodies. Q What are SWIM priority water bodies? A They are water bodies identified as part of the surface water management -- I'm sorry -- surface water improvement and management program that required the South Florida Water Management District to identify and -- identify for restoration or preservation and rank according to urgency of need of attention water bodies throughout the District's jurisdiction. Q Okay. Would that include water conservation area number one? A Yes. Q Are you aware what the loading rate of FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 360 phosphorus is to water conservation area one? A I do not know that number. Q Do you know what limit on the loading of phosphorus is applied to conservation area one? A I do not know. Q Would your answer be the same for conservation areas two and three? A Yes. Q And also the same for Everglades National Park? A Yes. Q I believe you testified yesterday concerning a discussion of nutrient enrichment during a LOTAC meeting; is that correct? MS. WATERS: Objection as to form. THE WITNESS: I don't recall that particular question. BY MR. HALL: Q Are you familiar with the term nutrient enrichment? A Yes. Q Okay. What's your understanding of that term? A It refers to the existence of nutrients in the water and can indicate whether there is an FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 361 excessive or deficient amount of nutrients in the water. Q And what's the basis of your understanding? A Presentations made at District Governing Board meetings and presentations made to the Everglades Advisory Group and LOTAC. Also presentations made mostly at Governing Board meetings in connection with development of the Lake Okeechobee SWIM Plan. Q Are you aware how a determination is made that nutrient enrichment indicates excessive amounts of nutrients? A I don't recall specific indicators, no. Q What are acceptable amounts of nutrients in a water body; do you know? MS. WATERS: Objection as to form. THE WITNESS: I do not know how acceptable levels are determined. BY MR. HALL: Q Are you aware how a deficient amount of nutrients is determined? A No, I'm not. Q Are you aware of any methodology to determine the existence of nutrients in a water FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 362 body? A I could not describe those, no. Q Have you ever had a discussion with staff during your participation in the six month period you worked on the first draft of the SWIM planning concerning how to determine if nutrients are present in a water body? A No, I have not. Q If a citizen over in Belle Glade called the District and wanted to know what the levels of nutrients were in a water body, do you feel qualified to answer that question? MS. WATERS: Objection as to form. THE WITNESS: I would not be able to answer that question. BY MR. HALL: Q Would you be able to refer that person to any rules or regulations that you're familiar with based on your experience in the District? A I would have to consult others in the agency to determine that. Q Would you turn, please, to LS-10? You are familiar with this document, are you not? A Yes. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 363 Q I would like to refer you to sub part B on page one. A Uh-huh (yes). Q Could you just read that first sentence? A "Technical merits of 0.03 milligrams per liter phosphorus limitation." Q And was it your testimony yesterday that this document was a summary of a discussion at a LOTAC meeting? MS. WATERS: Objection as to form and the characterization of the witness' prior testimony. THE WITNESS: This document does summarize LOTAC discussion. BY MR. HALL: Q Do you recall any specific discussion regarding the research behind 0.03 phosphorus limitation at this meeting? A I don't recall those particulars. Q During your participation with LOTAC II did you have the opportunity to speak with any member of District staff regarding technical merits of 0.03 phosphorus limitation? MS. WATERS: Object as to form. THE WITNESS: Not outside of District FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 364 staff discussion and presentation to LOTAC II. BY MR. HALL: Q Did you discuss it in any other form? A No. Q Did you discuss it with anyone outside of the Water Management District? A No. Q Based on your experience, is it within your knowledge to make a determination as to what a phosphorus limitation is? A I could not make that determination. Q Could you refer to LS-11, please? You are familiar with this document, are you not? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Can you hold on just a minute? MR. HALL: Sure. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. HALL: Q Is it correct your testimony yesterday was, concerning this document, that you did not edit the SWIM Plan that you worked on? A I believe my testimony yesterday regarded the request in this memo that Volume Three, Part A be reviewed and comments be provided. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 365 And my testimony yesterday was that I did not do that. Q Did you ever have the opportunity to discuss with any of the parties listed on LS-11 their comments on Volume Three drafts? A I did not. Q Okay. Are you even aware whether any party listed on LS-11 submitted comments on Volume Three? A I am not aware who did submit comments on Volume Three. Q Would you turn to LS-13, please? Ms. Smith, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your testimony yesterday was you never saw this document; is that correct? A Not before yesterday. Q So is it safe to assume that you also never discussed this document with any member of District staff? MS. WATERS: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: That's true. BY MR. HALL: Q Have you had an opportunity since seeing this document for the first time yesterday to read it? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 366 A No. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Could you read back that question and answer, please? (Thereupon, the Court Reporter read the requested portion of the record.) BY MR. HALL: Q Could you take just a few moments and read the document? A Okay. Q Okay. Yesterday the United States was asking you your knowledge of this document; is that correct? A Yes. Q And I'm just going to go over a section of that for a moment. At that time did you have any familiarity with this document at all? A No, I did not. Q And after taking a moment to read the document which I understand you've never seen before, do you have any indication when this document was prepared? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form, the characterization she didn't have time to read it yesterday. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 367 MR. HALL: It was her testimony, counselor. THE WITNESS: I do not know who it was prepared by. BY MR. HALL: Q Are any of the items outlined on this document subject to areas that you're familiar with from the Everglades SWIM Plan that you worked on? MS. WATERS: Object as to form and it's speculation, conclusions. THE WITNESS: The portion of the draft text that I saw dealt with very broad water, description of water resources in the planning area. BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. A And to that extent that this also deals with those issues in much more detail, they do address similar subjects. Q This document appears to reference a 1.67 grams per meter square per year calculation, does it not? A I see that number here, yes. Q Do you have any knowledge what that FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 368 refers to? A I believe it does refer to the, a nutrient threshold, phosphorus threshold. Q Do you know what that phosphorus threshold applied to? A I don't recall. Q Okay. Do you have any knowledge based on your experience with the District on how a 1.67 grams per meter square per year calculation was made? A I don't recall. Q Are you aware of any research regarding that determination? MS. WATERS: Object as to form. THE WITNESS: I could not identify any research that specifically addresses that number. BY MR. HALL: Q Turn to LS-14, please. You are familiar with this document, are you not? A Yes, I am. Q And am I correct that the substance of your testimony concerning this document was that these were questions or queries raised by FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 369 LOTAC II? A That's correct. Q Is it also correct that you prepared this document? A Yes, I did. Q And was it not your testimony yesterday that the document did not reflect a consensus of LOTAC but rather questions from a discussion meeting? A That's correct. Q Do you have any reason to question the discussion raised at this meeting concerning ortho P versus total P? A I had no questions about that issue or the discussion of it. Q Do you have any understanding of the technical appropriateness of .03 milligrams per liter reflected on this document? MS. WATERS: Object as to form. THE WITNESS: Could you repeat that again? BY MR. HALL: Q Yes. Do you have any knowledge, any question regarding the technical appropriateness of .03 milligrams per liter as reflected on this FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 370 document? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to form. THE WITNESS: That, I have no question about that. That is language of the Advisory Council. BY MR. HALL: Q I'll refer you to the outline format at number two. Do you have any opinion on how a value was arrived at for vegetative response to P? A I do not. Q Do you know what "P" refers to? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Excuse me, Counsel. Where are you on this document? MR. HALL: I'm at page two, A-2. THE WITNESS: A-2. MS. THRONE-CONTE: A-2? MR. HALL: Yeah. BY MR. HALL: Q Do you know what "P" refers to on that document? A Phosphorus. Q Ms. Smith, we went over your participation in LOTAC for quite a while over the last two days. Based on your participation at the FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 371 LOTAC II meetings and your experience at the District, do you feel qualified to question the issues raised by LOTAC at the September 7th of 1989 meeting? MS. WATERS: Object as to form. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Join in the objection. The witness previously testified she's not an expert, she's not a scientist. THE WITNESS: I do not feel qualified to question the issues raised by LOTAC. BY MR. HALL: Q Would you turn to LS-15, please? MS. WATERS: Counsel, for the record, as to Exhibit LS-15, counsel for the United States requested, I believe, yesterday to redo and amend pages three, five and eleven. I ask that that be done before the conclusion of this deposition. And if we refer to those pages, please note that they are unclear and incomplete. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Let the record reflect that counsel for the United States is in the process of getting those pages copied and was informed by this hotel that they would just FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 372 take a couple of minutes. It's now been over an hour. If you would like to break, I will see what the status is of those pages. MR. HALL: I would just like to ask the witness a couple of very general questions concerning this document. It's not going to be referencing those pages. The objection is clearly noted and there are pages on this document that cannot be read. BY MR. HALL: Q I believe your -- is it correct your testimony yesterday was you were familiar with this document from a LOTAC presentation at a LOTAC meeting? A My -- no. My first familiarity with the document was when it was sent by Dr. Parks to Frank Lund for inclusion in meeting agenda materials for an upcoming LOTAC meeting. I did see this document in advance of its discussion in a LOTAC meeting. Q Is it correct your testimony yesterday was that you prepared the first two pages, which were personal notes of yours? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 373 A Yes. Q And was it also your testimony yesterday that those notes were prepared on drafts one and two? A The notes, these notes are my notes to try to identify differences between drafts one and two of the Parks' material. Q To the best of your knowledge did you also attach draft two to this memorandum that you wrote? A There is a draft attached that is dated December -- or, I'm sorry -- October 31st, 1989. And I cannot recall whether or not these two materials are attached in my files. Q Okay. Do you have any opinion based on your experience with the District as to any statements or conclusions raised by Dr. Parks in the draft that is now before you, that's a draft 10-31-89? MS. WATERS: Objection. Calls for speculation and conclusions. BY MR. HALL: Q I'll rephrase it. Do you have any opinions based on your experience to the statements made in this document FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 374 by Dr. Parks? And that's the document dated 10-31-89. MS. WATERS: Objection as to form and any conclusion that Dr. Parks may have reached in his draft memorandum that was not authored or adopted by Ms. Smith. THE WITNESS: I do not have an opinion about the information presented. My notes were simply an attempt to understand what and if there were any substantive differences between drafts one and two. BY MR. HALL: Q In preparing your notes did you gain an understanding of the strategies as reflected in this document styled "Nutrient Management Area Discharge Quality", or did you just do a comparison of the two drafts? A I did a comparison and listed questions that I had regarding the information and the strategy that was proposed in this document. Q I would like to refer you to page four, which appears, for the record, to be a clear page. Could you read where it begins number one, period? A "Imbalance in aquatic flora and fauna - 17-3.121 (19), 'Nutrients - In no case shall FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 375 nutrient concentrations of a body of water be altered so as to cause an imbalance in natural populations of aquatic flora and fauna." Q Did you have an understanding of what an imbalance is in aquatic flora and fauna? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object. Asked and answered earlier this morning. THE WITNESS: I do have an understanding of that term. BY MR. HALL: Q And what is your understanding? MS. WATERS: Same objection as noted by counsel for the United States. Asked and answered. THE WITNESS: It would be a shift or change in the population that would occur ordinarily without any impact from human activities. BY MR. HALL: Q Based on your experience at the District, are you aware whether hydroperiod would be such an activity, changes in hydroperiod? MS. WATERS: What kind of activity, counsel? MR. HALL: Activity the witness is FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 376 referring to. THE WITNESS: Changes in hydroperiod can occur as a result of human activity. BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. Are you aware whether -- do you have an opinion whether hydroperiod causes changes in an imbalance in natural populations of aquatic flora and fauna? MS. WATERS: Asked and answered. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Hydroperiod does affect flora, aquatic flora and fauna. BY MR. HALL: Q Could you give me an example based on your experience in the District where you have knowledge that that has occurred? A As a result of drought conditions in the '80, '81 drought water levels receded in Lake Okeechobee, dried up lake bottoms, dried up vegetation that required wet water conditions to thrive in the lakes littoral zone. And conversely to the other extreme that condition was reversed when extreme rains occurred during the typical dry season and the lake levels rose very sharply. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 377 Some of the aquatic vegetation that is normally associated with inundated areas did return to areas that were previously dry due to a lack of rainfall. Q From your experience are you aware whether these same impacts happened in water conservation area one? A I'm aware that water conservation area one has experienced drier than normal conditions in the last couple of years. Q Are you aware, based on your experience at the District, whether high water levels caused changes in the vegetation in water conservation area one? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: There have been discussions about the effect that water levels, high, low, any water levels have on the vegetation in the water conservation areas. BY MR. HALL: Q Do you have any special training in hydroperiod, in determinations of the effects of hydroperiod? A No, I don't. Q Going back to page four, what does that FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 378 number 17-3.121 (19) refer to? A That refers to the rules that the Department of Environmental Regulation administers. Q Do you have any knowledge of how a nutrient concentration as used in this rule is determined? A I do not. Q Turn to page six, please, and could you read beginning at number three, please? A "Dominance of Nuisance Species - 17-3.061 (3) (q). 'Substances in concentrations which result in the dominance of nuisance species - none shall be present'." Q Are you familiar with that text? A I have read the text before. Q Are you aware what the 17-3.061 (3) (q) refers to? A They are rules of the Department of Environmental Regulation. Q Are you familiar with the term dominance of nuisance species from LOTAC meetings? A I am familiar with the concept as a result of those discussions, yes. Q Do you have any special knowledge FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 379 concerning what dominance means, referred to in this rule? MS. WATERS: Objection. Calls for a conclusion on behalf of the witness. She didn't write the rule. THE WITNESS: I do not have any extraordinary knowledge of this. BY MR. HALL: Q Based on your experience at the District, do you have any working knowledge as to how the dominance is determined? A No, I do not. Q So if a citizen of Belle Glade called up and wanted to know what dominance meant in relation to this rule, would you be able to answer that question? A I would not, no. Q Would you turn to LS-17, please? Ms. Smith, I apologize, we'll make this real quick on this exhibit. I know we went through it at length yesterday. You do remember discussing this LS-17 yesterday, correct? A Yes. Q Okay. And it would purport to be a FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 380 September 7th, 1989 draft meeting summary for LOTAC II; is that correct? A That's right. Q And attached to this is what appears to be an additional document also styled September 7th, 1989, LOTAC II; is that correct? A That's correct. Q Okay. From looking at this document yesterday, do you know which draft preferenced which draft? A The -- MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. Assumes there was a preference. THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. Did you say reference, or preferance? BY MR. HALL: Q Do you know which draft, which was the first document that you drafted? A The top document. Q So would it be safe to assume that the handwritten notes you testified about yesterday on the second part of this document would not be in the first part of the document? Is that correct? A That's correct. Q Was it also -- is it correct your FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 381 testimony yesterday was you were not aware of the changes, any changes that had been made based on the handwritten notes? A No, I don't believe that that was discussed yesterday. Q You do remember discussing the handwritten notations on this document? A Yes. Q Are you aware whether those notations were incorporated in other drafts? A These notations would have been incorporated in the draft that was prepared for presentation to the council, yes. Q Would you turn to LS-19, please? A Nineteen? Q Yes. Am I correct that you testified yesterday these were your notes from a meeting of September 25th, 1989? A It was not a meeting per se. Dry run refers to practice of Governing Board presentations. Q Have you ever given a Governing Board presentation? A No. Q Were you using this document to assist FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 382 someone in preparing it for a Governing Board presentation? A I made these notes while the dry run was in progress. Q Okay. Are these notes of your observations of that dry run presentation? A They're notes about the content of the presentation. Q Was this a presentation by one or more parties that you're aware of? A More than one. Q Ms. Smith, I realize it's a year later, but at this point in time would you be able to point out any sections that you would attribute to a particular individual presentation? A The section on the first page, the name Dineen is written and underlined. The notes made after that name would have, would have referred to Mr. Dineen's dry run. Q Okay. Would you please refer to LS-20, please? I believe your testimony yesterday was you don't recall this document; is that correct? A I don't recall it. Q Is it also correct you don't recall who FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 383 wrote the document? A That's correct. Q So it's safe to assume, is it not, that you are not qualified to make a comment on the contents of that document, having never seen it? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. MS. WATERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I did not say that I had never seen it. I don't recall it. I don't remember if, how I came to -- if I have seen it before or if it has been in my files. I have no memory of it. BY MR. HALL: Q All right. Refer to LS-21, please. Is it correct your testimony yesterday was these are transparencies used by Peter Rhoads during a presentation? MS. WATERS: Object as to the characterization of the witness' testimony yesterday. THE WITNESS: I do believe that I said that these were copies of transparencies, some of which I remember were used by Pete Rhoads in a presentation to the Governing Board. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 384 BY MR. HALL: Q Is it also correct you're not aware who prepared this document? A That's correct. Q LS-22 -- I'm sorry, is it LS-22? I'll ask you the same question for LS-22. Do you recall who authored this document? A I do not recall. Q Have you ever seen it before yesterday, to the best of your knowledge? A It does, did look familiar to me. Q LS-24, please. Do you remember being shown this document yesterday by the United States? A Yes. Q Am I correct that your testimony was you were not aware who authored this document? A That's correct. Q Okay. Do you have any opinion as to the rate at which water conservation area 2-A marsh uptakes phosphorus? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. Assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: I do not have an opinion about that. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 385 BY MR. HALL: Q Would you please refer to LS-25? Do you remember seeing this document yesterday during your testimony? A Yes. Q Is it correct that your testimony was you had no recollection of these notes? A That's correct. Q Okay. Was it also your testimony that you are not aware of what date this document was prepared? A That's correct. Q Okay. Thank you. Refer to LS-26, please. Would you refer to page two on this document? I'm sorry, did you prepare this document? A I did not prepare the first page. Q Okay. I'm sorry. On page two, are those, is that your handwriting? A Yes. Q Ms. Smith, would you look at the second line there, third line? I believe the document states "Details on WMA design criteria". A Yes. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 386 Q What does that refer to? A I cannot be certain. Q Are you aware of -- what does WMA refer to? A Water management area. Q Are you aware of what the design criteria was for the water management area during the time period you worked on the Everglades SWIM Plan? A I am not aware that design criteria was determined at that time. Q Could you look at the next line? I believe it says, "Details, analysis of W.Q. through S-12's". A Yes. Q Is that what it says there? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to counsel testifying for the witness. THE WITNESS: That is what it says there, yes. BY MR. HALL: Q What does WQ refer to? A Water quality. Q And what does S-12 refer to? A Those are water control structures that are part of the Central and Southern Florida Flood FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 387 Control Project. Q And to the best of your knowledge what are those? What's the purpose of those water control structures? A To convey water from water conservation area three to Everglades National Park. Q Okay. Did you perform any analysis of water quality through the S-12 structures? A No. Q Are you aware of any research regarding the analysis of water quality through the S-12 structures? A I am aware that some analysis has been the subject of discussion. Q What's the basis of your awareness from discussions at LOTAC meetings, for example? A The extent of information available about the water quality or the quality of water discharged through the S-12's and how it can be determined and measured has been the subject of discussion at LOTAC meetings and Advisory Committee meetings and the subject of presentation to the Governing Board. Q Based on your experience at the District, were you ever asked for your opinion on how to FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 388 analyze water quality through these structures? A No. Q Were you ever part of a discussion on the scientific methodology used to analyze water quality through these structures? A No. Q Okay. Can we turn to LS-28, please? Is it correct your testimony yesterday was you had no -- I'm sorry -- your testimony was that this was a draft document? A Yes. Q Turn to LS-31, please. Am I correct that your testimony yesterday concerning this document, Ms. Smith, was that it was not a verbatim transcript of a meeting of LOTAC II? A That's correct. Q Am I also correct that you discussed -- your testimony was you discussed comments by Peter Rhoads on this document? A That was part of the discussion yesterday, yes. Q And was part of that discussion also handwritten notes on the top of page two concerning P concentrations? FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 389 A Yes. Q Okay. Do you know what the P refers to here? A Phosphorus. Q Do you know what the phosphorus concentrations are through Lake Okeechobee structures? A No, I do not. Q Do you have any knowledge of how phosphorus concentrations are determined for the lake structures? A No, I do not. Q Do you have any knowledge concerning sampling at the lake structures to determine phosphorus concentrations? A I do not. MR. HALL: Go off the record. (Thereupon, a recess was taken.) MS. THRONE-CONTE: For the record, I would like it noted that I have made copies of the missing pages or illegible pages of Exhibit LS-15. MS. WATERS: We can probably, just for the Court Reporter, amend those to the back of the original document. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 390 BY MR. HALL: Q Ms. Smith, I just have a few more questions for you. Based on your testimony for these three days, would a correct statement be that your summaries prepared for LOTAC II and Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee were just summaries of discussion items? MS. WATERS: Object to the form. The witness has testified as to each of the individual questions regarding summaries of LOTAC minutes and Everglades Advisory Committee minutes, meeting minutes. MS. THRONE-CONTE: I will join in the objection. THE WITNESS: The notes on the Everglades SWIM Advisory Group were limited to discussion items. For the LOTAC II meetings the summaries also included any council recommendations, resolutions and, and/or votes that were taken during the course of the meeting. BY MR. HALL: Q Concerning the meetings of the Everglades FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 391 SWIM Advisory Group, were you ever asked as part of your duties at the Water Management District to analyze the discussions at those meetings? MS. WATERS: Object as to form. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object as asked and answered. THE WITNESS: I was not asked to analyze the discussions, no. BY MR. HALL: Q Okay. Would your answer be the same for the summaries prepared for LOTAC II? A That's correct. Q Regarding your participation in the draft of the Everglades SWIM Plan, did you have any discussions with Mark Maffei during the time period that you were participating with the Everglades SWIM Plan -- A No. Q -- process? A Mark Maffei. Q Maffei. A And, no, I did not. Q Are you aware whether Mr. Maffei submitted comments on the first draft of the Everglades SWIM Plan during the time period that FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 392 you worked on it? A I do recall receiving letters from the Loxahatchee Wildlife Refuge, but I cannot recall at this time whether or not those letters were signed by Mark Maffei or some other official at the Refuge. Q If you did receive those letters, would that have been during the March to December, 1989 time period you worked on the Everglades SWIM Plan process, to the best of your knowledge? A I did not receive letters directly. I have seen copies of correspondence that were provided to the District from the Refuge regarding suggestions, comments, considerations that should be considered during development of the SWIM Plan. Q Okay. Are you aware that Mr. Maffei has been acting as consultant for the United States Attorney during the course of this litigation, since the suit was filed? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form of the question. Assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: I'm not aware of his work in that capacity. BY MR. HALL: Q Let me turn your attention to LOTAC II. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 393 Was Dr. Paul Parks present at LOTAC II meetings that you attended? A I believe he was present at all of the meetings that I attended. Q And I believe your testimony was that you also received from him a draft and/or drafts of a nutrient management plan that you compared; is that correct? A I had seen copies of a draft that he submitted to, to Frank Lund to be included in agenda packages being prepared for a LOTAC meeting. Q Okay. Were you present at any LOTAC meeting where that package was discussed, to the best of your knowledge? A I do recall some discussion at LOTAC about Dr. Parks' drafts on that subject. Q Is it correct Dr. Parks was a member of LOTAC II? A That's correct. Q Are you aware whether Dr. Parks was acting as a consultant for the United States Attorney during the time that this lawsuit was filed? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 394 Assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: I was not aware of his role in that capacity during the time that I was associated with these LOTAC meetings. BY MR. HALL: Q Have you become aware of that fact outside of your participation in the LOTAC meetings? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. You haven't established that it is a fact. THE WITNESS: I have heard of that possibility subsequent to my, my involvement with LOTAC and with Everglades SWIM. BY MR. HALL: Q Do you remember in what context you heard that? A I had seen newspaper articles speculating about that role. Q Have you ever discussed that role with Dr. Parks? A No. Q Are you aware whether during your participation with the LOTAC meetings, whether that role was ever disclosed to the council? A There was no discussion of that nature at FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 395 LOTAC meetings that I attended. Q Are you aware whether one of the goals of the SWIM Plan that you worked on was providing flood protection to the Everglades SWIM boundary area? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Could you read that question back, please? (Thereupon, the Court Reporter read the requested portion of the record.) MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object. It was asked and answered this morning. THE WITNESS: I am aware of some discussion of draft goals and objectives that suggested that existing levels of flood protection should be maintained. BY MR. HALL: Q And do you have an opinion based on your experience with the District and your experience with the SWIM process that that goal should be maintained through its conclusion? A I do not have an opinion on that issue. Q Okay. Ms. Smith, we've spent a lot of time over the last three days discussing your qualifications in certain subject areas. Do you feel qualified to provide FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 396 scientific positions on behalf of the Water Management District? MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the question and the body, nature of the question. MS. THRONE-CONTE: Join in the objection. THE WITNESS: I am not certain I understand what you mean in terms of provide. BY MR. HALL: Q Ms. Smith, have you ever testified in any court proceeding on behalf of the Water Management District? A No. Q Have you ever testified in any administrative hearing on behalf of the Water Management District? A No. Q Have you ever represented the Water Management District in any capacity outside of, I believe you testified you gave a public awareness presentation to some school at some period of time. A I have been the District's representative to advisory groups and conveyed to those groups District positions or indicated activities, District activities with regard to, you know, FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 397 water resource issues, particularly in support of District's local government assistance program. Q Outside of that have you ever represented the District and provided explanation of their scientific research programs? A No. Q Have you ever been asked to represent the District and provide in a public form justification for any policy? What I mean by use of justification is on a scientific basis. MS. WATERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I have not provided scientific justification in support of District policy. BY MR. HALL: Q How much time did you spend in your thirteen years at the District working with local governments? A Since my work with community relations was focused on local governments, and with the exception of one year interruption when I worked with the regulatory department on DRI's, I worked with local governments from 1985 to, up to 1989 when the new planning department was formed. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 398 Q Would a characterization of your role during that participation be to keep local governments informed of District activities that could have an impact on their municipalities? A That's correct. Q Do you have an opinion as to the effect of the SWIM planning process that you were involved in on local municipalities in the planning area? MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form. MS. WATERS: Object as to form. THE WITNESS: To the extent that the, that local governments do occur within the SWIM planning boundaries, they are affected by the District's attempts to involve them in the development of the SWIM Plan. They are also affected by, or have the potential to be affected by any future SWIM Plan strategies that are implemented. BY MR. HALL: Q Would those strategies include rule making also? A There is that potential, yes. Q And also regulatory programs? A That's correct. FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 399 Q It's my understanding from your testimony -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that your primary activity of your role in the Everglades SWIM process was arranging the public hearings on the SWIM Plan; is that correct? MS. WATERS: Objection. Asked and answered. THE WITNESS: To arrange public meetings, yes. BY MR. HALL: Q Do you feel that's an integral part in keeping local governments aware of changes in the District programs that could have an affect on the municipalities? A I believe that is an important part, local governments and other special interest groups that are concerned with water resource issues. Q Okay. I thank you for your forthright testimony and for your time and patience for the last couple of days. MR. HALL: The cities have concluded their questioning at this point in time. MS. THRONE-CONTE: For the record, I would like it known that there has been, the FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 400 United States, as pointed out, has taken the continuing objection that the counsel for the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston is also currently representing the agricultural interests. And that if there are any other questions that are relevant, the United States already knows that the questioning has gone beyond the scope of what the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston were allowed to intervene in this lawsuit and we will insist that all questioning then be satisfied for the agricultural interests as well. MR. HALL: Counsel, first off I don't believe your commentary on a standing court order dignifies a response, but for the sake of the record, very briefly. It's clear that the cities are represented in this litigation over the continued objections of the United States. There is a court order granting the right for the cities to be represented in this litigation. The cities have questioned this witness. And as -- the City of Belle Glade, FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 401 City of Clewiston -- as to the, any agricultural interests, whatever you're referring to, I'm not here representing anyone but the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. The questioning was clearly within the scope of this witness' testimony. And the record will clearly reflect that the United States did not object to any of the questions. They're clearly relevant to the issues of the SWIM process and this litigation affecting both the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. MS. THRONE-CONTE: The United States will remind counselor that the cities were allowed to intervene in this lawsuit on water supply and flood control criteria. The United States has taken the position that we have not objected to counselor's forays into nutrient uptake criteria, quality criteria, periphytes and other things that don't appear to have any relevance to those limited areas for which the judge let them into this lawsuit. MR. HALL: Counsel, with the cities participation -- not to waste any more tax FLAGLER REPORTING, INC. 402 dollars on court reporting time -- I just note for the record that there is a court