UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
CASE NO. 88-1866-CIV-HOEVELER
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al.,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MGT. DISTRICT;
JOHN R. WODRASKA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MGT. DISTRICT;
FLORIDA DEPT. OF ENVIRONMENTAL
REGULATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN,
SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et al.,
Defendants.
/
_______________________________________
- - -
Deposition of LISA SMITH
a Witness, taken at the instance
of the Plaintiffs
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VOLUME II
DATE: December 19, 1990
246
I N D E X
WITNESS: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT
LISA SMITH
By Mr. Hall 248
By Ms. Throne-Conte 403
E X H I B I T S
LS Exhibit No. 32 348
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The deposition of LISA SMITH, a witness
in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was
taken before me, Louine M. Scialdone, Certified
Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public, State of
Florida at large, at the Royce Hotel, in the City
of West Palm Beach, in the County of Palm Beach,
in the State of Florida, on the 19th day of
December, 1990.
The appearances at said time and place
were as follows:
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
155 South Miami Avenue, Suite 600
Miami, Florida 33130
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
BY: B. J. THRONE-CONTE, ESQ.
PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK
One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636
Two South Biscayne Boulevard
Miami, Florida 33131
Attorneys for Belle Glade & Clewiston
BY: KARL E. HALL, JR., ESQ.
JACKIE WATERS, ESQ.
Attorney for So. Fla. Water Mgt.
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(Thereupon, the witness retook the
stand, having been previously duly
sworn, and testified as follows:)
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. HALL:
Q Ms. Smith, my name is Karl Hall, and I
represent the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston
who are participating in this lawsuit as
defendant intervenors.
And I'm going to ask you a few questions
regarding some of your testimony of the last few
days. If at any time my question is unclear,
please feel free to ask whatever question you
need.
If I do not correctly summarize your
testimony, I know we went over a lot of areas the
last two days, please tell me exactly what your
thoughts are on what your testimony is.
I just have a couple of preliminary
questions.
Have you ever been to Belle Glade?
A Once -- twice.
Q Was that business related?
A One it was, yes.
Q And for what purpose?
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A Very early in my work with the District
I made a presentation to a school group out
there.
Q Was that when you were working in the --
was the office conducting assistance to local
government programs?
A No. That was when I was with the Public
Information Office and I, it was part of my
responsibility as a District speaker.
And I also prepared school programs and
provided those programs upon request.
Q This was just general public information
to a school district that you were providing?
A Right. It was information about the
water resources of Florida and the District's
role in managing them.
Q Have you ever been out to the Clewiston
area?
A I've been through Clewiston on my way to
Fort Myers.
Q But in -- I believe you've been with the
District for approximately thirteen years?
A Yes.
Q Have you ever had occasion to be in
Clewiston on a business matter?
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A No.
Q Business related?
A No.
Q On behalf of the District?
A No.
MR. HALL: Jackie, would you supply the
witness with LS-4
BY MR. HALL:
Q Ms. Smith, I believe you testified
yesterday that this was one of two publications
that you have authored on behalf of the District;
is that correct?
A I believe my testimony is that this is
the only publication that I have authored
attributed to me personally, yes.
Q Isn't it a fact that you were the
editor, I believe, on the 1983-'84 annual report?
A I edited that. I did not write that
publication.
Q And I believe your testimony was that
this was a public information pamphlet that
covers the Water Management history of Florida
from the early 1800's through, I believe, early
1970's?
A Yes.
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Q As part of preparing to, to prepare this
document, did you have occasion to speak with
anyone at the District concerning the Central and
Southern Florida Flood Control Project?
A I don't recall specifically. I may
have.
Q What, if any, historical resources did
you use to prepare this document?
A The references that I used -- it's been
over ten years since this has been prepared and
I'm not certain. There were documents that were
available through our reference library. I don't
recall the names of specific documents right now.
Q Okay. Are you aware that in the early
years of Florida's development there was serious
flooding problems in the Lake Okeechobee basin
area?
MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form.
THE WITNESS: I am aware that there were
episodes of flooding in the Okeechobee basin
area, yes.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Are you aware that the hurricanes in
1926 and 1928 caused a considerable loss of life
south of the lake due to flooding?
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A I'm aware after --
MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form.
Assuming facts not in evidence.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Okay. Ms. Smith, could you please turn
to page six of LS-4?
A Yes.
Q And the second column, could you read
the paragraph beginning "In 1948"?
A "In 1948 Congress adopted the Central
and Southern Florida Flood Control Project. The
following year the Florida legislature created
the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control
District to act as local sponsor for the
federally authorized project. The FCD was
charged with the responsibility of meeting the
need for flood protection and sufficient water
supply and to prevent salt water intrusion,
encourage agricultural and urban development and
preserve fish and wildlife."
Q From your experience at the District
over thirteen years, what is your understanding
of the purpose behind the Central and Southern
Florida Flood Control District?
A The Flood Control District was really
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authorized to act as local sponsor -- excuse me
-- for the Flood Control Project itself.
Q And based on your experience, what is
your understanding of the purpose or purposes of
the Flood Control Project?
A To provide drainage facilities for the
Central and South Florida region.
Q Isn't it a fact that one of the purposes
of the project was to provide flood control
protection?
MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the
question.
THE WITNESS: Yes, it was to provide
flood control protection.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Have you ever in your thirteen years at
the District had occasion to visit water
conservation area number one?
A I have not, no.
Q Okay. In your thirteen years at the
District have you had occasion to visit water
conservation area two?
A Oh, okay. I need to make a correction.
I did visit conservation area number one
last year on a LOTAC field trip. I have not
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visited two.
Q Do you remember what part of water
conservation area number one you were in?
A It -- we -- I don't know exactly. We
were -- the tour was conducted by refuge
officials.
Q Do you remember when this tour was?
A It was December 1st, 1989.
Q Okay. And do you remember who
participated with you in that tour?
A There were representatives of LOTAC, a
representative from DER, Frank Lund from the
Water Management District and myself.
Q And what was your understanding of the
purpose of that tour?
A It was a field trip requested by LOTAC,
so we were conducting that excursion at their
request.
Q Besides that tour you have never been to
water conservation area one?
A No.
Q And I'm going to be asking you the same
questions for the other areas. In your thirteen
years of experience have you ever had occasion to
visit, for whatever purpose, water conservation
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area number two?
A No.
Q And the same question for water
conservation area number three.
A No.
Q In your thirteen years have you ever had
occasion for whatever purpose to visit Everglades
National Park?
A I have not.
Q I'm going to be referring to LS Number
One, Ms. Smith. That's your resume
'. I'm sure
you're familiar with it.
I believe your testimony over the last
two days was that you spent a considerable amount
of time working on environmental impact
assessments or impact assessments.
MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the
characterization of the testimony as a
considerable amount of time. I believe that
wasn't the witness' testimony.
THE WITNESS: I spent just over one year
preparing, not environmental impact
assessments but impact assessments associated
with developments of regional impact.
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BY MR. HALL:
Q Are you familiar with the term
environmental impact assessment?
A I am familiar with the term. I have
heard the term.
Q And what is your understanding of that
term?
A They are assessments required by various
regulatory agencies having to do with determining
the effects of any given activity on
environmental resources in the vicinity of that
activity.
Q What do you mean by in the vicinity of
that activity?
A Well, whatever activity is being
proposed may have an impact directly on the area
in which the development or the project, the land
use that is proposed to replace what is there
now.
There are impacts directly on the
location where the facility is intended to occur
and there are also secondary impacts adjacent to
or near the spot on the ground where the project
is proposed to be built.
Q From your understanding could some of
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these other impacts include economic values?
A Yes.
Q During your tenure at the District have
you ever had the opportunity to work on an
environmental impact statement?
A I have not.
Q Have you, during your experience with
the District, have you ever been requested to
provide input in discussion with other staff
regarding an environmental impact statement?
A Within the context of the reviews
conducted with developments, for developments of
regional impact, yes. Environmental impacts were
discussed as part of the review of those
projects.
Q I believe presently your testimony was
you're working on the Kissimmee Restoration
Project?
A No. I am working in the region of the
District north of the Kissimmee River basin where
the restoration project is occurring. The area
that I am currently focusing on is commonly
called the Upper Kissimmee Chain of Lakes Region.
Q Are you aware whether any ISS has been
prepared for the Kissimmee Project?
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A I have no knowledge about that.
Q Are you familiar with an environmental
impact statement prepared for the C-111 Project
in East Everglades?
A I am not aware of that.
Q Ms. Smith, when you were with the Office
of Communication, did you receive any special
training on the history of the Water Management
District?
A I'm not sure I understand what you mean
by training.
Q Okay. I'm use whatever term -- how do
you understand it?
A I learned about the history of the Water
Management District as a result of my duties with
the Office of Communication.
Q Did you ever attend any in-house
training programs offered by the Water Management
District?
MS. WATERS: Are you talking generic
training offered by the District, or related
to some specific subject area?
BY MR. HALL:
Q Related to, during your tenure at the
Office of Communications.
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A I don't recall any training offered on
that particular subject.
Q You are familiar with the water
conservation areas?
A Yes.
Q Are you aware of what the purpose or
purposes were behind the creation of the water
management areas?
A Yes.
Q And what's your understanding of them?
A My understanding of the water
conservation areas is that they were created to,
to store storm waters and to provide a source of,
potential source of water for coastal water needs
and also to preserve Everglades habitat and
wildlife.
Q Would those coastal needs include the
urban area of the lower east coast?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Have you ever had occasion in
your experience with the District to work on a
water supply plan for basin areas?
A Excuse me. Repeat the question, please.
MR. HALL: Go ahead and read it.
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(Thereupon, the Court Reporter read
the requested portion of the record.)
THE WITNESS: No.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Are you aware of the, what a regulation
schedule is?
A Yes.
Q And what is your understanding of that?
A It is a schedule associated with the
operation of the works of the Central and
Southern Florida Flood Control Project.
Q Are you aware of what the current
regulation schedule is for the water conservation
areas?
A I do not know the specific schedule for
that area.
Q Okay. Are you aware what the regulation
schedule is for Lake Okeechobee?
A I am aware that there is one for that
lake.
Q During your tenure at the District, have
you ever had occasion to work on hydrologic
modeling concerning the work schedules?
A No, I haven't.
Q Ms. Smith, if you'll bear with me for a
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moment, the next area I would like to go into is
your participation in the Everglades SWIM Plan.
And please feel free to correct me if I don't
summarize what your testimony's been in the last
two days. I know we spent a lot of time on it
and I'll try to make this brief.
So is it correct your testimony was you
worked on the SWIM Plan from approximately March,
1989 to December, 1989?
A I worked on Everglades SWIM Plan
activities during that period.
Q It's my understanding that your work was
limited to the first draft of the Everglades SWIM
Plan; is that correct?
A I did not prepare materials that are in
the first draft. I worked with external groups
to elicit their concerns or identify water
resource issues that should be potentially
included in the first draft.
Q It's my understanding from your
testimony you did not work on any additional
drafts of the Everglades SWIM Plan; is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q Is it correct, your testimony I believe
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the last two days was that the emphasis was on
the public input comments to the first draft of
the Everglades SWIM Plan.
A That was my focus, yes, the focus of my
role.
Q Is it also correct your testimony was
that you are not and were not aware of research
projects being conducted by the District for SWIM
activities?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. Is it also correct your testimony
was that you are now aware who wrote or authored
any portions of the first draft of the Everglades
SWIM Plan?
A That's correct.
Q And I believe your testimony was that
your participation was limited to a few pages on
general water issues on the first draft; is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q Is it also correct your testimony over
the last two days was that you have not read the
first draft in its entirety? Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q And is it also correct your testimony
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was that you did not revise the SWIM Plan in any
manner?
A That's correct.
Q Is it also your testimony that you did
not edit the SWIM Plan?
A That's correct.
Q Ms. Smith, those first draft pages you
worked on, was that July, 1989?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And is it correct your testimony
was that you compiled notes on comments on those
pages?
A No. I compiled comments from staff onto
those pages.
Q Is it correct your assignment was not to
review the text of the Everglades SWIM Plan?
A That's correct.
Q It's my understanding from your
testimony -- is it correct that during your six
months working with the Everglades SWIM Plan your
primary duty was to assist Joycelyn Branscome?
A That's right.
Q And those duties included preparing
materials for her presentations; is that correct?
A Yes.
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Q And those duties also included taking
notes for District use at the Everglades SWIM
Advisory Committee meetings; is that correct?
A That's right.
Q Were you ever asked to prepare a
critique of the Everglades SWIM Plan first draft?
A No.
Q Okay. Were you ever asked to analyze
any portion of the first draft of the Everglades
SWIM Plan?
A No.
Q During the six month time period you
worked on the Everglades SWIM Plan, were you ever
asked to provide input into any policy decisions?
A No.
Q During that six month time period did
you ever represent the District in an official
capacity regarding the Everglades SWIM Plan?
A I did not.
MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the
question.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Is it correct from your testimony that
you did assist with preparing materials for the
purpose of meetings on the first draft? Is that
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correct?
A Yes.
Q Did you ever give a presentation at a
public hearing on the first draft?
A No.
Q Okay. Ms. Smith, I believe you
testified yesterday concerning the, extensively
concerning the groups involved in the Everglades
SWIM Plan; is that correct?
A The groups that I participated with,
yes.
Q And strictly, I believe, you
participated with the LOTAC II and the
Environmental Advisory Group; is that correct?
Everglades Advisory Committee?
A The Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee.
Q Is it correct your testimony yesterday
was that you were aware of several groups working
on the Everglades SWIM Plan other than those two
committees?
A I'm not sure which groups you may be
referring to.
Q But you are aware that there were other
groups working on the Everglades SWIM Plan?
MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the
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question. Assuming facts not in evidence.
The witness has testified, the
question you're asking her, she is not clear
of.
THE WITNESS: Could you rephrase that or
be more specific?
BY MR. HALL:
Q Most definitely.
Is it correct, your testimony yesterday,
that you were aware of groups working on the
Everglades SWIM Plan such as Hydrologic SWIM
Planning Committee, Hydroperiod Task Force, Water
Control Task Force and C-111 Task Team?
A I am aware that those task teams
existed, okay?
Q Okay.
Is it correct that your knowledge of
those groups is limited solely to their
existence?
A That's right.
Q Okay. Have you ever had any discussion
regarding policy with any group members?
A No.
MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the
question.
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MS. THRONE-CONTE: Join the objection.
MS. WATERS: What are you asking --
MR. HALL: The policy matters that she
has testified of over the last couple days.
MS. WATERS: The witness clearly said
what policy in terms of specific questions.
She was able to address those questions.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Ms. Smith, did you ever discuss SWIM
strategies with Hydrologic Group members?
A I don't know who was in that group.
Q Did you ever discuss SWIM planning
strategies with the Hydroperiod Task Force?
A I likewise do not know who was in that
group.
Q Okay. Did you ever have an opportunity
to discuss District research projects with any
member of those groups?
MS. WATERS: Objection. Assumes facts
not in evidence. The witness has testified
that she has no knowledge of that.
THE WITNESS: I am not aware of either
SWIM research projects or the composition of
those groups.
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BY MR. HALL:
Q Is it correct, your testimony of the
last two days, the substance was your only
discussion regarding research projects was
limited to Joel VanArman and Dave Swift?
A I did not discuss research projects with
those gentlemen.
Q Is it correct your testimony was that
you only consulted Joel VanArman and Dave Swift
regarding how to set up and prepare for
developing a SWIM plan?
A I never consulted Joel VanArman in that
capacity. I did consult Dave Swift in that
capacity.
Q Did you ever, during your tenure working
on the Everglades SWIM Plan, did you ever discuss
with Dave Swift any of his research projects?
A No.
Q Is it correct, your testimony over the
last two days, that you were not aware of any
changes, if any, in the Everglades SWIM Plan?
A I do not have knowledge of any changes
to the Everglades SWIM Plan.
Q Is it also correct your testimony was
that you have no knowledge of any research
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projects documented in the Everglades SWIM Plan?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. Would you take a moment and look
at LS-3?
Now, Ms. Smith, I believe we spent a
large portion of time going over this list over
the last two days. I'll just ask you a few
questions on it.
A All right.
Q Is it correct your testimony was that
these were some of the people working on the
Everglades SWIM Plan during your participation in
the process?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And is it correct your testimony
was that there were others that you may or may
not be aware of that were working on the
Everglades SWIM Plan?
A That's possible, yes.
Q To the best of your knowledge during the
six month time period you worked on the first
draft, did you ever discuss specific comments
with any party listed on LS-3 regarding the
Everglades SWIM Plan?
MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the
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question. I believe the witness' testimony
was that she did not work on the first draft
of the SWIM Plan.
THE WITNESS: Can you rephrase the
question?
BY MR. HALL:
Q Sure. Let's just go back for a moment.
A Okay.
Q Is it correct one of your duties during
that six month time period was to compile
comments on the first draft of the Everglades
SWIM Plan?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And these were the comments you
turned over to Joel VanArman?
A No. Joel VanArman provided me with the
comments and the text. I simply consolidated the
various comments onto the text so that all the
comments could be viewed simultaneously.
Q And to the best of your knowledge were
the comments from any particular party that you
remember at this point?
A I remember reviewing or seeing comments
on drafts provided by Irene Quincey, Tom
MacVicar, Mike Slayton, Tony Federico. That's --
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those are the only ones I recall right now.
Q Is it correct your testimony was that
you did not have any participation on compiling
comments after August of 1989?
A That's correct.
Q And was that prior to the public
hearing, one of the public hearings?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Is it correct that your testimony
was that you never discussed with any reviewers
their specific comments?
A That's correct.
Q And it is correct your testimony was in
fact that you only met with Mr. MacVicar once
concerning the Everglades SWIM Plan?
A That's right.
Q And is it correct your testimony was
that the purpose of that meeting was to prepare
an agenda for an Everglades Advisory Committee
meeting?
A An upcoming meeting of that group, yes.
Q So you never had the opportunity to
discuss his comments on the first draft?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. Is it correct your testimony as
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to your role in the Everglades SWIM Plan was to
distribute draft and planning materials and to
elicit public comments?
A That's essentially correct.
Q And you would then bring those public
comments back to the District for their use for
whatever purpose?
A That's correct.
Q And as -- I believe your testimony was
that your duties did not include following up on
the use of those materials?
A That's right.
Q Okay. Ms. Smith, I would like to ask
you a couple of questions on the Everglades SWIM
Advisory Committee.
Is it correct your testimony was the
extent of your participation was to attend
meetings to prepare notes?
A Yes.
Q Were you there as a representative of
the District?
MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the
question.
THE WITNESS: I was not the District's
representative to that committee.
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BY MR. HALL:
Q Okay. During the meetings you attended
of the Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee, did
you ever have the opportunity to give any
presentations?
A No, I did not.
Q In fact, is it correct your testimony
was that your duties were to prepare notes for
informational purposes for other District staff?
A That's correct.
Q Would you say those duties were equally
important as to your job in arranging public
hearings?
A Yes, I would say they were equal.
Q Were you responsible during this six
month time period to prepare a summary of
comments from public hearings?
A Yes.
Q Do you, yourself, give any particular
ranking of importance between preparing notes of
the Advisory Committee and compiling public
comments from those hearings?
A No. I treat that input equally no
matter what its source.
Q Is it your belief that the purpose
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behind those duties is the same, to provide
comments back to District staff?
A Yes.
Q And I believe your testimony yesterday
was that your educational training showed you
that there was a concern to be aware of different
points of view, sensitivities, I believe we said.
A I believe that's correct, yes.
Q Okay. Would it be correct to state that
your testimony was that the importance of those
summaries was to provide different points of view
back to the District to assist staff?
A That was the purpose of the summaries.
Q Is it correct your testimony was in fact
that you were not there to prepare minutes of the
Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee meetings?
A That's correct.
Q Have you attended Governing Board
meetings during your tenure at the District?
A Yes.
Q Are you aware of Governing Board
procedures on stating the official policy at
those meetings?
MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of
the question.
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THE WITNESS: I am -- I'm not aware of
any particular procedures in that regard.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Would you consider your summaries of the
Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee to be the
official position of the District?
A No.
MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of
the question.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Is it correct your testimony was the
summaries were only a description of the
discussion during those meetings?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. And is it correct that the
membership of the SWIM Advisory Committee
consisted of individuals and organizations
outside of the Water Management District?
A That's correct.
Q And is it correct that your testimony
was that the summaries did not serve to state any
consensus arrived at at those meetings?
A That's correct.
Q Is it correct that the summaries of the
Everglades SWIM Advisory Committee also included
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public comments from individuals present at the
meetings?
A That would have been included in the
notes that I had taken.
Q Did you have the opportunity to discuss
any research projects with Everglades SWIM
Advisory Committee members?
A No, I have not.
Q Is it correct your testimony was you did
not discuss any reviewer's comments on the SWIM
draft with the Technical Review Team?
A That's correct.
Q Is it correct that your discussion with
the Technical Review Team was limited to
background, how to prepare a SWIM plan?
A That's correct.
Q Is it also correct that that has to do
with your new duties with the area in the Upper
Kissimmee Chain of Lakes?
A That's correct.
Q The purpose of that discussion was to
get some technical background on the logistics of
putting together a SWIM plan?
A More administrative, how to organize the
various personnel that should be involved in SWIM
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plan development.
Q Were those discussions with Dave Swift
and Mr. Mulliken?
A I did have some discussions with John
Mulliken.
Q Okay. With either Dave Swift or John
Mulliken did you discuss technical research needs
for a SWIM project?
A With Dave I did discuss technical
research needs associated with the, with the East
Lake Toho and West Lake Toho in the upper chain.
Q I would like to ask you a few questions,
Ms. Smith, on LOTAC II.
Is it correct that your duties
concerning LOTAC II consisted of preparing
summaries of the discussion for council use?
A That's correct.
Q At any time in working with LOTAC II did
you give any public presentations to the council?
A I did not.
Q Okay. At any time working with LOTAC II
were you asked to provide a critique on any of
the reports, whether in final or draft form?
A No.
Q Did you have occasion in working with
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LOTAC II to discuss research activities with the
membership of LOTAC II?
A No.
Q Were you ever asked to provide any
recommendations concerning their input on the
Everglades SWIM Plan?
A I'm not sure. Can you rephrase that
question?
Q Okay. While you worked with LOTAC II,
were you ever asked by LOTAC II members to
provide recommendations regarding their input on
the Everglades SWIM Plan?
A I did not provide recommendations to
them. I did prepare summaries of their
recommendations.
Q Did you ever participate in any of those
discussions during the meetings?
A No.
Q Would a correct summary of your
testimony over the last two days concerning the
LOTAC II summaries, would it be correct that your
role was to prepare the summary of discussions
similar to preparing public comments on the
Everglades SWIM Plan?
A There is a similarity.
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Q In fact, wasn't it your testimony that
the summaries were not a verbatim recitation of
those discussions?
A That's correct.
Q What is your understanding of the role
of LOTAC II, why it was set up?
A The council was established to provide
some review and, of District efforts to improve
water control in Lake Okeechobee and also to
provide the District with technical expertise as
well.
Q Was that on best of the legislature?
A I am not sure.
Q Okay. Have you ever heard of something
called the Legislative Charge to LOTAC II?
A No.
Q Yesterday you discussed generally some
issues discussed at LOTAC meetings. I would like
to go over those for a moment.
I believe your testimony was that water
control was an issue discussed at LOTAC II
meetings; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And is it also correct your testimony
was that water quality was an issue discussed at
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those meetings?
A Yes.
Q Based on your thirteen years experience
with the District, aren't those two issues
discussed every day at the Water Management
District?
A Yes.
Q Do you attribute any special importance
to the discussion of issues with LOTAC II?
MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form.
It's ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: Their discussion is
certainly noteworthy.
BY MR. HALL:
Q For what reason?
A Because they were formed to provide that
discussion.
Q Okay. I think we've gone over this too
much, actually, but one more time. Please bear
with me.
It's my understanding from your
testimony that you did not participate in any of
the discussions concerning issues discussed in
LOTAC II meetings.
A That's correct.
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Q From your experience working at the
District, do you consider yourself to have
experience concerning water quality issues?
A I have knowledge of water quality
issues.
Q How would you describe that knowledge?
A I am aware of water quality issues
associated with water resource management in
general.
And whether it be the condition of water
quality at various parts of the agency, efforts
to protect water quality, efforts to restore
water quality, there are issues associated with
providing water supplies of a certain quantity
and quality that are all associated with managing
water resources in South Florida.
I'm aware of that in the context of
issues facing the South Florida Water Management
District in that regard.
Q Have you received any special training
regarding water quality issues while at the
District?
A No, I have not.
Q Okay. Based on your experience at the
District and in particular with your planning
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activities, would you consider water quality and
water quantity to be intricately related?
A Yes.
Q Have you seen that function in your
present job in the Upper Kissimmee Chain of
Lakes?
A Yes.
Q Do you also consider those issues to be
intertwined in the Everglades SWIM planning
effort that you worked with?
A The interface between those two issues
was one of the issues that the Everglades SWIM
Plan was attempting to resolve.
Q Okay. I believe your testimony -- is it
correct your testimony was that hydrology in the
hydrologic system was discussed at LOTAC II
meetings?
A Yes.
Q Do you have any special training in
hydrology?
A No, I don't.
Q What is your understanding of the
hydrologic system?
A Hydrologic system is really a cycle that
includes precipitation to the ground, where the
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water flows on the surface of the ground, where
the water flows under the ground surface and
water that also in turn evaporates from the
surface of the ground and returns to the
atmosphere and generates the cycle again.
Q During your experience at the District,
have you ever had the opportunity to work on the
water model?
A No.
Q During your experience at the District
have you ever participated in any research
determining flow rates or storage capacity?
A No.
Q Is it correct your testimony was that
best management practices were also discussed at
LOTAC II?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Do you consider yourself
knowledgeable about best management practices?
A I have some knowledge of certain types
of best management practices.
Q Would you consider that a general
knowledge or any -- it's not a specialty area you
work in, is it?
A That's correct, it's a general
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knowledge.
Q If you had a question concerning best
management practices, would you -- who would you
turn to at the District?
A It depends. If it's dealing with dairy
farming, there are a number of people that I
would consult.
If it has to do with practices for
citrus, there are others, and for agricultural
protection in the EAA there are other people who
have other expertise in that area.
Q Your present work is in the Upper
Kissimmee region, correct?
A Yes.
Q As part of that SWIM effort that you're
currently working on, are you involved in the
permitting of any dairy farms in that area?
A No.
Q Okay. Are you aware whether dairy farms
are permitted by the Water Management District?
A Some surface water or drainage systems
on dairy farms are permitted.
Q During your thirteen years at the
District have you ever been assigned the task of
reviewing and/or issuing a surface water
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management program?
A No.
Q Okay. During your thirteen years at the
District have you had the occasion as part of
your duties to review and analyze a best
management practice as part of a surface water
management program?
A No.
Q Would you consider Dave Black to be more
qualified to answer questions concerning best
management practices in dairies than yourself?
A I don't know about Dave's expertise on
dairies.
Could I be excused for just a moment?
(Thereupon, a recess was taken.)
MR. HALL: We can go back on.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Ms. Smith, I believe a moment ago you
mentioned general knowledge of best management
practices for agricultural areas.
A Yes.
Q Okay. Based on your experience, what's
your understanding of why the District requires
best management practices in surface water
permits?
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MS. WATERS: Objection to the form of
the question. It assumes facts not in
evidence.
THE WITNESS: I am not aware that the
District requires best management practices
per se as a, as a rule.
BY MR. HALL:
Q I believe your testimony of the last
couple of days was that you were aware of the
rules and regulations of the District --
A Yes.
Q -- is that correct? Okay.
Are you aware of what the requirements
are for a surface water management permit?
A I have some knowledge of the basis of
review, the document that is used to provide
assistance to permit applicants and also to
provide guidelines for reviewers during their
review, some of that information.
Q And correct me if I'm wrong. It's your
testimony that over the thirteen years you worked
for the District you've never been involved in
the issuance of a surface water management
permit?
A That's correct.
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Q Is it correct your testimony yesterday
concerning LOTAC II meetings was one of the
issues was the biological integrity of wildlife
in the water conservation area and Everglades
National Park?
A Yes.
Q What's your understanding of the
biological integrity?
A My understanding of that term is to,
what is, what is needed by a particular plant or
animal in order to sustain its existence.
Q Would one of those needs include certain
water conditions in an area, a geographic area?
A Yes.
Q Are you aware of what effect change in
water has on vegetation in an Everglades marsh?
MS. THRONE-CONTE: Object to the form.
Ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: Could you repeat your
question?
MR. HALL: Go ahead and read it back.
(Thereupon, the Court Reporter read
the requested portion of the record.)
THE WITNESS: I am aware that water has
an effect.
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BY MR. HALL:
Q Is it correct you're not aware of what
effect, if anything, hydrocarry (phonetic) has?
A I know that an extreme lack of water or
too much water can affect the health of the
vegetation and the existence of the vegetation in
an area.
Q Would an example of that include the
drought last year in water conservation area two?
MS. WATERS: Objection. It assumes
facts not in evidence.
MS. THRONE-CONTE: Join in the
objection.
MR. HALL: I'll rephrase it.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Are you aware of whether there was a
drought last year, last water year?
A I am aware that the District has
experienced drought conditions.
Q Are you aware what the water level was
in water conservation area 2-A last year?
A I am aware that it was below normal.
Q Would you refer to LS-18?
Ms. Smith, is it correct you testified
regarding LS-18 yesterday?
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A Yes.
Q And was it your testimony that these are
not minutes of the meeting, but your personal
notes?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. I would like you to look at LS-7
and 8.
Would you consider LS-7 and LS-8 to be
minutes of those meetings referenced in the
documents?
A No.
Q Is it correct that those, that you would
consider -- your testimony was that LS-7 and LS-8
are notes, summaries of notes on discussions at
that meeting?
A That's correct.
Q At those meetings?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. Thank you.
I would like to refer you to LS-1.
MR. HALL: Counsel, I don't think the
witness will need to see it.
BY MR. HALL:
Q Ms. Smith, are there any educational
courses that you've taken or participated in
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during your tenure at the District that are not
listed on LS-1?
A Yes.
Q Which ones?
A Over the years I've taken courses on
public speaking and preparing presentations, the
mechanics of designing and printing brochures and
publications.
I've taken courses on land development
reviews, seminars provided by regional planning
councils regarding review procedures associated
with developments of regional impact.
I have attended environmental permitting
short courses sponsored by the Florida Chamber of
Commerce in Tallahassee. I have attended
programs sponsored by the Florida Chapter of the
American Planning Association.
Q Okay. Since obtaining your Bachelor's
have you ever had an opportunity to take course
work or attend seminars regarding hydrology?
A No.
Q Have you taken any course work
concerning statistical analysis?
A No.
Q Since obtaining your Bachelor's have you
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taken any course work concerning chemical
analysis?
A No.
Q Since obtaining your Bachelor's have you
taken any additional course work in any specific
science discipline?
A No.
Q And I believe -- is it correct your
testimony was that in college you, the only
science courses you took were as part of your
core requirements?
A That's right.
Q Is it a correct summary of your
testimony that you have no special training in
biology or in chemistry?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. We spent quite a bit of time
yesterday on phosphorus levels. I would like to
address that for a moment.
Is it correct your testimony was that
you were aware of a nutrient threshold level of
point oh three --
A Yes.
Q -- for phosphorus?
A Yes.
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Q Is it correct your testimony was that
you were only generally aware of that?
A I --
MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the
question.
THE WITNESS: I have heard discussions
of that threshold in Advisory Group meetings
and in LOTAC meetings.
BY MR. HALL:
Q And isn't it correct your testimony was
you were not aware whether that number was used
in the SWIM Plan?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. Isn't it correct your testimony
was that you were aware that Volume 3-B of the
SWIM Plan had been published but you had not
reviewed it?
A That's correct.
Q What's your understanding of the term
nutrient threshold level?
MS. WATERS: Objection. The question
assumes facts not in evidence.
THE WITNESS: My understanding of that
term is that it has to do with the amount of
nutrients within a water body. That either
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-- the threshold can refer to the level that
will allow the water body to be stable. The
threshold level can also refer to the level
at which a change can occur.
BY MR. HALL:
Q What do you mean by allowing the water
body to become stable?
A I have heard that term used in
association with the eutrophic -- excuse me --
the trophic state of a water body.
Q What do you mean by the level at which a
change would occur?
A The level at which the particular water
body may become hyper-eutrophic.
Q What do you mean by the term
hyper-eutrophic?
A It is a level at which the nutrients in
the lake exceed or change the quality of the lake
and change the vegetative composition or
influence the vegetative composition of the lake.
Q Are you aware of what the natural
vegetation communities are in Lake Okeechobee?
A I am not aware, no.
Q Okay. During your tenure with the
District have you ever been involved in any
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research studies on Lake Okeechobee?
A No.
Q Have you ever been involved during your
tenure at the District on any modeling efforts
performed by the District on Lake Okeechobee?
A No.
Q Are you aware of the term nutrient
cycle?
A Yes.
Q What's your understanding of that term?
A My understanding is the movement of the
nutrients in the water column in soils and in
vegetation in the water body.
Q Are you familiar with the term accretion
rate?
A I have heard that term.
Q And in what context have you heard it?
A I have heard it used in presentations to
the Governing Board and to LOTAC II.
Q What's your understanding of accretion
rates?
A I don't have an understanding. I cannot
define that term.
Q Are you aware what the accretion rate is
for water conservation area one?
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MS. WATERS: Objection. The witness
testified she doesn't have an understanding
of the term accretion rate.
THE WITNESS: I don't know that rate.
BY MR. HALL:
Q I believe your testimony yesterday was
you were aware of discussions at LOTAC II
concerning soil subsidence; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. What's your understanding of soil
subsidence?
A It's basically the, the loss of soil
compaction or the reduction of the amount of soil
in any given area.
Q Are you aware what the soil subsidence
rate is for the water conservation areas, if any?
A I don't know that rate.
Q Have you ever discussed soil subsidence
with District staff?
A No, I haven't.
Q Is it correct to say that you've never
had the opportunity to perform research regarding
soil subsidence?
A That's correct.
Q Would it also be correct to state that
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you've never performed research regarding
nutrient cycle?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. Are you aware what the natural
vegetation communities are for water conservation
area one?
A No, I'm not.
Q Same question for water conservation
areas two and three.
A Same answer.
Q And for Everglades National Park?
A Same answer.
Q Have you ever worked, during your
thirteen years at the District, with any District
staff on periphyton research?
A No, I have not.
Q Are you familiar with the term
periphyton?
A Yes, I've heard the term.
Q What's your understanding of the term?
A It's a micro organism that is used to
assess the health and the viability of an
ecosystem.
Q Are you aware whether there's different
types of periphytes?
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A I don't know.
Q Okay. Are you aware of whether
periphyton communities change?
MS. WATERS: Objection to this line of
questioning, counsel. The witness is not a
hydrologist nor is the witness an economist.
THE WITNESS: I, I believe they change,
yes.
BY MR. HALL:
Q And what's the basis of that belief?
A Because I have heard discussions about
whether or not changes have occurred.
Q Are you aware of, based on these
discussions, of any factors that cause changes in
periphytes?
A I can't recall any specific factors.
Q During your participation with LOTAC II
were there discussions concerning ambient water
quality?
MS. WATERS: Objection. Assumes facts
not in evidence.
THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
BY MR. HALL:
Q During your thirteen years at the
District have you ever had discussions with
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District staff concerning ambient water quality?
A I have not had discussions on that
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