** 1
 
            UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
            SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
 
           CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER
 
 
 
 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al.,   )
                                     )
           Plaintiffs,               )
                                     )                  	 
 VS.                                 )
                                     )
 SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT      )
 DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA,         )
 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA   )
 WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT;          )
 FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL )
 REGULATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN,    )
 SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF    )
 ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et. al.,  )
                                     )
          Defendants.                )
                                    /
 
 
 
           DEPOSITION OF LAVINIA RICKETTS
          TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF
 
                         ***
 
 
 DATE: August 27, 1990
 
 
 
 
 
 
            PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICE
                   Commerce Center
             324 Datura Street, Suite 303
            West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
                    (407) 659-4046

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                       INDEX
 
 
 August 27, 1990      DIRECT  CROSS  REDIRECT  RECROSS
 
 
 LAVINIA RICKETTS
 
 
 
 By Ms. Beverly Nash     5
 
 By Mr. Joe Richards               21
 
 
 
 

** 3
          The deposition of Lavinia Ricketts, in the
 above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before
 me, KAREN BAUER FRY, C.S.R., Court Reporter and
 Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, at
 Professional Reporting Service, Commerce Center,
 324 Datura Street, in the City of West Palm Beach,
 Palm Beach County, in the State of Florida,
 beginning at the hour of 3:20 o'clock p.m., on
 August 27, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said
 cause for the taking of said deposition, which is
 annexed to the Court file herein, on behalf of the
 Plaintiff in the above-entitled action pending in
 the above-named court.
          The appearances at said time and place were
 as follows:
 
               Beverly Sherman Nash, Esquire
               U.S. Department of Justice
               Environmental and Natural
               Resources Division
               P. O. Box 663
               Washington, D.C.  20044-0663
               Attorney for Plaintiff
 
               Joseph Richards, Esquire
               Peeples, Earl & Blank, P.A.
               Two South Biscayne Blvd.
               One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636
               Miami, Florida  33131
               Attorney for Cities of Belle Glade
               and Clewiston

** 4
 
               Katharine Stollman, Esquire
               Allison Burdette
               Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom
               1440 New York Avenue, N.W.
               Washington, D.C.  20005
               Attorney for South Florida Water
               Management District
 
               Jackie Waters, Esquire
               So. Florida Water Management District
               Box 24680
               3301 Gun Club Road
               West Palm Beach, FL  33416
 
               ALSO PRESENT:  Toni Lafuente
                              Mike Rose
                              David Buker
 
 

** 5
 THEREUPON,
                  LAVINIA RICKETTS
 being by me first duly sworn to tell the whole truth,
 as hereinafter certified, testified as follows:
 
                  DIRECT EXAMINATION
 BY MS. NASH:
 
     Q.   Ms. Ricketts, I'm Beverly Nash, counsel
 for the United States in this litigation.
          We're here to try and find out what
 computer systems the Water Management District
 has, how people use the computers, how that data is
 on the computers, how that data is formatted.  
          You're here as a representative of the
 district to respond to one or more of the various
 categories of information that we are interested
 in. 
          Have you been shown that list of
 categories?
     A.   Yes, I have.
     Q.   And which category or categories are you
 here to respond to today?
     A.   I am familiar with the third item.
     Q.   What is your present title or position?

** 6
     A.   It's supervising senior systems analyst.
     Q.   In what division or department?
     A.   The division is computer management
 division.  The department is technical services
 department.
     Q.   And what is your job description?
     A.   Could you tell me something more specific?
     Q.   What are your responsibilities?
     A.   I oversee the systems section of the
 computer management division.
     Q.   And what does that entail?
     A.   It covers personal computers, networking,
 and system support on the DEC systems.
     Q.   And how long have you been a supervising
 senior systems analyst?
     A.   I believe I have held that title for three
 years, approximately three years.
     Q.   Have you had other positions at the Water
 Management District?
     A.   Yes, I have.
     Q.   And what are those positions.
     A.   I was a senior systems analyst, and I was
 a system programer.
     Q.   How long were you senior systems analyst?
     A.   Approximately a year.

** 7
     Q.   And what were your responsibilities as a
 senior systems analyst?
     A.   Support on personal computers and
 networking.
     Q.   And how long were you a systems
 programer?
     A.   Approximately a year.
     Q.   And what were your responsibilities as a
 systems programer?
     A.   Support of personal computers and some
 centralized systems.
     Q.   Were these positions in the computer
 management division?
     A.   I believe the division had a different
 title at the time.
     Q.   But it was basically the same position?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   What's your educational background?
     A.   I have a Bachelor of Science degree.
     Q.   In what area?
     A.   The degree doesn't specify an area.
     Q.   From what school?
     A.   Newcomb College of Tulane University.
     Q.   Who are your supervisor or supervisors in
 the computer management division?

** 8
     A.   Presently?
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   Bill Hall, Bob Mann, and John Lynch.
     Q.   What's Mr. Hall's title?
     A.   Director of computer management division.
     Q.   And what is Mr. Mann's title?
     A.   I believe the title is assistant director
 of computer management division.
     Q.   And Mr. Lynch's title?
     A.   Director of technical services
 department.
     Q.   Are there employees in the computer
 management division that work for you?
     A.   Yes, there are.
     Q.   Who are those employees?
     A.   Do you want me to name them all?
     Q.   How many are there?
     A.   Better than five.
     Q.   Would you name them and tell me what their
 position is?
     A.   Connie Falls is a systems analyst.  David
 Sweet is a systems analyst.  Pat Cordero is a -- I
 believe the title is computer systems technician. 
 Eduardo Pedilla is a senior electronics computer
 technician.  Don Turner is a computer electronics

** 9
 technician.  Mitch Krolick is a computer system
 technician.  Danny Reid, is a computer system
 technician.  Kevin Smith is a computer system
 technician.  Paul Crosby is a computer system
 technician.  I believe that's all of them.
     Q.   You indicated had that you oversee the
 systems section of the computer management
 division involving the PCs?
     A.   I oversee the systems section of the
 computer management division.
     Q.   Does that include all of the personal
 computers?
     A.   Yes, it does.
     Q.   And what are your functions in overseeing
 the personal computers?  What do you actually do on
 a day-to-day basis?
     A.   I coordinate with the different sections
 in my area to assure that different groups have
 information, the one area has information on what
 another area is doing, and coordinate information
 to the computer coordinators in the different
 departments to insure that they know what is
 occurring or that they have conveyed to me any
 problems in the area.
     Q.   What do you mean when you say, "so they

** 10
 know what is occurring"?
     A.   If we have received a new software
 package, what our schedule is for delivery of the
 package.  If we have received computers or printers
 that need to be distributed, that they know the
 status of that distribution.
     Q.   What software packages are utilized on the
 PCs?
     A.   Word Perfect, Symphony, EM-220, Sideways,
 and DOS are the standard packages.
     Q.   What is Word Perfect utilized for?
     A.   Word processing.
     Q.   And what is Symphony utilized for?
     A.   Spreadsheet analysis.
     Q.   What is EM-220 utilized for?
     A.   Terminal emulation.
     Q.   Can you elaborate on what that means?
     A.   To use a personal computer as a terminal.
     Q.   What is Sideways utilized for?
     A.   Sideways takes output and prints it
 sideways.
     Q.   And what is DOS used for?
     A.   DOS is the operating system for the
 personal computers.
     Q.   You indicated that you oversee the

** 11
 networking.  What is the process utilized by the
 Water Management District to network between the
 computers?
     A.   Could you be more specific than that?
     Q.   What is the -- how is the networking done
 between the computers at the Water Management
 District?
     A.   An Ungermann Bass Network is used.
     Q.   And is this network utilized to network
 between all the computers at the Water Management
 District or is there any restrictions?
     A.   Virtually all computers have access to the
 network.
     Q.   Do you know whether there are any
 computers outside the Water Management District
 that have access to Water Management District
 computers through this network?
     A.   There are computers outside the main
 building that have access to the network.
     Q.   Do you know whether there are computers
 owned by entities other than the Water Management
 District that have access to Water Management
 District computers through the network?
     A.   Yes, there are.
     Q.   What entities are those?

** 12
     A.   I believe DER has access, USGS has access,
 and I believe the Army Corps of Engineers has
 access.
     Q.   Do you know whether there are any limits
 as to which computers DER has access?
     A.   Yes, there are.
     Q.   And what are those limits and
 restrictions?
     A.   The limits are set by who needs access and
 why they need access.  So instead of it being a
 limitation of, "you can have access to everything
 except," it's more a limitation of, "you can only
 have access to."
     Q.   Do you know to which computers DER has
 access?
     A.   No, I don't.
     Q.   Do you know to which computers USGS has
 access?
     A.   No, I don't.
     Q.   Do you know to which computers the Army
 Corps of Engineers has access?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Do you know who would know?
     A.   It would probably be multiple people.
     Q.   These people in the computer management

** 13
 division or elsewhere?
     A.   I would say it would be people -- well, it
 would be some people in Computer Management and
 elsewhere.
     Q.   Do you know who any of these people are
 that might know?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   And who are they?
     A.   I believe, Robb Startzman or Kevin
 Rodberg.
     Q.   Anyone else?
     A.   The system managers for any systems they
 have access to would create their passwords or
 their user access.
     Q.   Is Robb Startzman a systems managers?
     A.   No, he isn't.
     Q.   Are there systems managers specifically to
 whom you were referring to when you said, systems
 managers would create the passwords?
     A.   There is a system manager for each system,
 and depending on which systems the users ask for
 access to, the appropriate system manager for that
 system would create the user name for the system,
 and the original password.
     Q.   Is there a systems managers for the Cyber?

** 14
     A.   Yes, there is.
     Q.   Who was that systems manager?
     A.   Steve MacNeil is the system manager.
     Q.   Is there a systems manager for the VAX
 8810?
     A.   Yes, there is.
     Q.   And who is that systems manager?
     A.   The system manager is Connie Falls.
     Q.   Is there a systems manager for the VAX, is
 it 6320?  Is that the other one?
     A.   There is a VAX Model 6310.
     Q.   6310, excuse me.  Is there a system
 manager for the 6310?
     A.   The system manager for the 6310 is Connie
 Falls.
     Q.   Is there a systems manager for the DEC
 system?
     A.   Could you be more specific?
     Q.   Is there a systems manager for any of the
 DEC systems?
     A.   The VAX 8820 and the VAX 6310 are DEC
 systems.
     Q.   There are other DEC systems in the Water
 Management District, aren't there?
     A.   There are other DEC work stations.  Those

** 15
 --
     Q.   Are there -- go ahead.
     A.   I don't know the specific system managers
 on each of those systems.
     Q.   Are there system managers for the SUN work
 stations?
     A.   Again, I don't know the specific system
 managers for the systems.
     Q.   Are there systems managers for the Xerox
 work stations?
     A.   Each individual work station doesn't have
 a system manager, but Connie Falls acts as the
 central system manager.
     Q.   You indicated earlier that part of your
 responsibilities were system support on the DEC?
     A.   That's correct.
     Q.   What does that entail? 
     A.   When Connie Falls is unavailable as system
 manager, I act as her back-up.
     Q.   Are back-ups done on the Water Management
 District's computer systems?
     A.   Yes, they are.
     Q.   Is there a regular schedule on back-ups on
 the mainframes?
     A.   Yes, there is.

** 16
     Q.   What is that schedule?
     A.   The schedule varies from system to system.
     Q.   What is the back-up schedule on the Cyber?
     A.   I don't specifically know the back-up
 schedule for the Cyber.
     Q.   Do you know the back-up schedule on the
 VAX 8810?
     A.   Not specifically.
     Q.   Do you know the retention period for the
 back-ups that are done on the VAX 8810?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Do you know the back-up schedule for the
 VAX 6310?
     A.   No, I do not.
     Q.   Do you know the retention period for the
 back-ups?
     A.   No, I do not.
     Q.   Are there regular back-ups on the other
 DEC work stations?
     A.   I'm not familiar with the system
 management of those systems.
     Q.   Are there regular back-ups on the SUN work
 stations?
     A.   I'm not familiar with the management
 practices on those systems either.

** 17
     Q.   Are there regular back-ups on the Xerox
 work stations?
     A.   Back-ups for the individual work stations
 are at the discretion of the user.
     Q.   Are there regular back-ups on the Xerox
 server?
     A.   Yes, there are.
     Q.   Do you know the schedule of those
 back-ups?
     A.   No, I do not.
     Q.   Do you know the retention period for the
 back-ups on the Xerox server?
     A.   No, I do not.
     Q.   Are there regular back-ups done on any of
 the PCs?
     A.   There are regular back-ups on the PC
 servers.
     Q.   Do you know the schedule of the back-ups
 on the PC servers? 
     A.   The PC servers in the B50 Building are
 backed up weekly.
     Q.   Do you know the retention period for the
 back-ups of the PC servers?
     A.   No, I do not.
     Q.   Do you know the format in which data is

** 18
 stored on the PCs?
     A.   The format varies, depending on the
 software package used.
     Q.   What would the format be for the Word
 Perfect software package?
     A.   Typically, the format is a standard Word
 Perfect document file.
     Q.   Do you know what the format would be for
 the data in using the Symphony software package?
     A.   Typically, the data is stored in a
 standard Symphony file with an extension WR.  I
 believe it's WR-1.
     Q.   Do you know the format of the data in the
 M220 software?
     A.   Typically, data is not stored in the M220.
     Q.   The M220 is just used as a processor?
     A.   It's used as an emulation package.
     Q.   What is the format of the data in
 Sideways?
     A.   I'm not sure.
     Q.   Are there indexes of the data files on the
 PCs?
     A.   What do you mean by "indexes"?
     Q.   Is there a list in any form on the
 computer or otherwise of the data files that are on

** 19
 the various PCs?
     A.   I don't know of a list of data files on
 PCs.
     Q.   Is there any sort of an inventory
 of the data files on the PCs?
     A.   I don't know of any inventory of data
 files on the PCs.
     Q.   Are there other sorts of inventories of
 what's on the PCs?
     A.   We maintain a data base of the standard
 software packages installed on each system.
     Q.   Does that data base have a name?
     A.   No, I guess it doesn't have a name.
     Q.   How would one go about finding out what
 data files are stored on the computers?
     A.   To find out what data files are on every
 computer?
     Q.   Yes.
               MS. STOLLMAN:  Are you referring to
 the PCs now?
               MS. NASH:  No, all the computers.
               MS. STOLLMAN:  If it's different for
 each computer, you can answer with respect to each
 separate system.
     A.   On the PCs, the only thing I can think of

** 20
 is to go to each system and do a directory of the
 files there. 
          On the VAX you could also do a directory
 in each users account. 
          What other systems did you want me to
 answer for?
     Q.   (By Ms. Nash)  Any of the other systems
 that are in existence in the Water Management
 District.
               MS. STOLLMAN:  You can answer if
 there are other systems that you've worked with.
     A.   On the Xerox, I'm not sure exactly how
 they would get a list of files on the system.
     Q.   (By Ms. Nash)  On the Cyber?
     A.   On the Cyber, you could go to each of the
 user accounts and get a list of files in the
 account.
     Q.   Is there a list of user accounts for each
 system?
     A.   There is a list of accounts for the VAX
 8820, for the VAX 6310, and for the Cyber.
     Q.   Does the list of accounts for the VAX 8820
 have a name?  
     A.   I'm not sure of the name of the program
 that maintains that list.

** 21
     Q.   Who would know the name of the program?
     A.   Connie Falls.
     Q.   Is there a list of the accounts on the VAX
 6310?
     A.   That's the system I was answering about.
     Q.   I thought you were answering about the
 8820?
     A.   It would be the same for both.
     Q.   You said there is a list of accounts for
 the Cyber, does that list have a name?
     A.   I don't know the name if it exists.
               MS. NASH:  I have no further
 questions. 
  
                  CROSS-EXAMINATION
 QUESTION BY MR. RICHARDS: 
 
     Q.   My name is Joe Richards.  I represent the
 cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston.
          You were just talking about an index to
 accounts for the VAX system.  Are you aware of
 whether this index would indicate the subject
 matter of the files?
     A.   I believe it would not.
     Q.   And when you were talking about the

** 22
 outside access by DER, and USGS, the Corps of
 Engineers, are you aware of any problems in
 maintaining data base integrity by allowing that
 outside access?
     A.   I know that that access causes an
 additional system load for us in supporting
 questions that they have accessing the system.
     Q.   Are you aware of the data ever being
 changed by outside parties when accessing the
 information?
     A.   I would not be aware of that information.
     Q.   Are you aware of whether this access is
 granted in a read only format?
     A.   I don't have that information.
     Q.   Who would have that information?
     A.   I would first ask Connie Falls.
     Q.   Are you aware of whether it's possible to
 grant outside access at night or on weekends? 
     A.   Access that would be limited only to those
 times?
     Q.   Is it possible to have access at those
 times?
     A.   It's possible to have access to some
 systems at that time.
     Q.   Do you know which systems?

** 23
     A.   It would depend on the back-up schedule on
 the systems.
     Q.   If access was granted at night or on the
 weekend, would you expect problems with the system
 load?
     A.   That would depend on the number of users
 having access.
     Q.   Do you know whether there is a limit on
 the number of users?
               MS. STOLLMAN:  Are you asking for any
 specific system or each system?
     Q.   (By Mr. Richards)  Each system that you're
 aware of.
     A.   Could you repeat the question?
               MR. RICHARDS:  Could you read it back
 please? 
 
                (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony
 was read back by the court reporter.)  
                  
     A.   Nothing is infinite, so there would be
 some limits as to the number of users that could
 have access to each system.
     Q.   (By Mr. Richards)  Are you aware of that
 number for, say, the Cyber system?

** 24
     A.   No, I'm not.
     Q.   Who would know that?
     A.   Steve MacNeil.
     Q.   And for the VAX system, would that be
 Connie Falls?
     A.   Yes, it would.
     Q.   Are you aware of the accidental loss of
 any data files?
     A.   Are you asking me if there have ever been
 data files accidentally lost?
     Q.   Any that you're aware of?
     A.   I am sure I have known of some.
     Q.   Do you know of any particular data that
 you can recall?
     A.   No.
     Q.   From any system, from the Cyber system?
     A.   I don't interface that directly with the
 Cyber.
     Q.   What about the VAX?
     A.   Right offhand, I don't recall any data
 that we have lost on the VAX and not been able to
 recover.
     Q.   Are you aware of any data lost from the
 Chemical Analysis Archive System?
               MS. STOLLMAN:  You can answer if you

** 25
 work with that system or are familiar with that. 
 Answer if you know.  I don't want you to speculate
 about that.
     A.   Could you specify what you mean by
 "chemical" -- I've forgotten what you called it.
     Q.   (By Mr. Richards)  Chemical Analysis
 Archive System.
     A.   Are you referring to the Perkin Elmer.
     Q.   Perkin Elmer, okay.  Let's start with
 that.
     A.   I don't know of any data lost on the
 Perkin Elmer.
     Q.   Any lost from the Britton Lee?
     A.   I have heard of data lost on the Britton
 Lee.  I don't know what the recovery of it was.
     Q.   Do you know who would know that?
     A.   I don't know specifically who would know
 the answer.
     Q.   Yet you're aware of a loss from the
 Britton Lee, but you don't know whether it was
 recovered or not; is that correct?
     A.   That's correct.
     Q.   Are you familiar with the DB Hydro data
 base?
     A.   I have heard of the DB Hydro data base.

** 26
     Q.   Are you aware of any data lost from that
 data base?
     A.   I don't specifically recall any instances
 of data lost on the DB Hydro data base.
     Q.   You mentioned that you didn't have --
 well, that your BS degree wasn't in any specific
 area.  What was your area of concentration?
     A.   My primary studies were biology.
     Q.   Did you have a minor concentration?
     A.   I studied a lot of computer science 
 classes at the time.
     Q.   Do you perform any analysis of data?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Have you in the past?
     A.   No.
               MR. RICHARDS:  All right.  That's all
 I have.  Thank you. 
 
 
               (The deposition was concluded at 4:05
 o'clock p.m.)