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Deposition from United States v. SFWMD, et al., Case No. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER |
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Deposition from United States v. SFWMD, et al., Case No. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER |
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** 1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al, )
)
Plaintiffs, )
)
vs. )
)
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, )
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA )
WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; FLORIDA )
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGU- )
LATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, )
SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF )
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et al, )
)
Defendants. )
___________________________________ )
- - - - - - - -
DEPOSITION OF THOMAS RAISHE,
THE WITNESS, TAKEN ON
BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFFS
- - - - - - - -
DATE: August 23, 1990
PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICE
Suite 303, 324 Datura Street
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
(407) 659-4046
** 2
I N D E X
August 23, 1990 DIRECT CROSS
THOMAS RAISHE
By Ms. Nash 5
By Mr. Richards 29
** 3
The deposition of THOMAS RAISHE, the witness, in the
above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before me,
DONNA McCALLEY, Registered Professional Reporter, and
Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, at
Suite 110, 324 Datura Street, in the City of West Palm
Beach, County of Palm Beach, in the State of Florida,
beginning at the hour of 4:30 p.m., on Thursday, the
23rd of August, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said
cause for the taking of said deposition, which is
annexed to the court file herein, on behalf of the
Plaintiffs in the above-entitled action pending in the
above-named court.
The appearances at said time and place
were as follows:
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Room 868, 601 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20044-0663
Attorneys for the Plaintiffs, U.S.A.
By BEVERLY SHERMAN NASH, ESQ.
PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK, P.A.
Suite 3636, Two South Biscayne Boulevard
Miami, Florida 33131
Attorneys for the Cities of Belle Glade
and Clewiston
By JOSEPH RICHARDS, ESQ.
SKADDEN, ARPS, SLATE, MEAGHER & FLOM
1440 New York Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005-2107
Attorneys for the South Florida Water
Management District
By KATHARINE STOLLMAN, ESQ.
ALLISON BURDETTE, ESQ.
** 4
APPEARANCES CONTINUED:
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT
3301 Gun Club Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33416-4680
By JACQUELYN L. WATERS, ESQ.
ALSO PRESENT: Ray Roberts
Robert Johnson
** 5
THEREUPON:
THOMAS RAISHE,
having been first duly sworn, as hereinafter certified,
testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. NASH:
Q. State your name.
A. Thomas Raishe.
Q. And Mr. Raishe, I'm Beverly Nash. I'm
counsel for the United States in this litigation. And
we're here to find out what the water management
district has in the way of computers, what information
is maintained on the computers, how it's stored, how
it's formatted, and you were designated as a
representative of the district having knowledge
concerning one of the various areas we're
interested--one or more of the various areas we're
interested in inquiring about.
Do you know what areas you were exhibited
as a representative today?
A. No.
Q. Have you been shown the list of
categories?
A. Yes.
Q. And you don't know which one you're
** 6
being--you're supposed to be responsive to, one of the
ones?
A. No.
Q. Were you prepared by anyone for this
deposition?
A. Yes.
Q. How were you prepared?
A. I was briefed, told to keep my answers
brief, answer honestly, and don't guess. If you don't
know, say so.
Q. And how long did your preparation last?
A. An hour at one point, and then we viewed a
video for about another hour.
Q. Were there others with you when you were
briefed?
A. Just myself and, I guess, two attorneys.
Q. And when you viewed the videotape, were
there others present?
A. Yes, there was probably 15 people in the
room.
Q. Do you recall who those were?
A. Not everyone. I can give you some of
them.
Q. Whoever you can name.
A. Okay.
** 7
There were two attorneys that I know of.
Q. And who were they?
A. Jackie was one. I'm not sure what--Don?
I'm not sure what the other attorney's name was. There
was Kevin Rodberg, Steve Reel.
That's all I remember exactly.
Q. When did this preparation occur?
A. About two weeks ago.
Q. And when did you see the videotape?
A. At the same time, two weeks ago.
Q. What have you been told about why you're
here?
A. That you're interested in our computer
resources, what we have.
Q. Anything else?
A. That's it, basically.
Q. What is your present title or position?
A. I'm a laboratory data systems supervisor.
Q. In what division or department?
A. I'm in the Research and Evaluation
Department in the Chemistry Laboratory Division.
Q. And what is your job description?
A. Basically systems manager.
Q. What are your responsibilities?
A. To maintain the computer resources in the
** 8
laboratory.
Q. Any other responsibilities?
A. I do the annual budget for the division.
I do training on the use of the computers. I supervise
one technician who does data entry, and I also back her
up if she's not there.
Q. Who is that technician?
A. Her name is Patricia Huey.
Q. And how long have you been a lab data
systems supervisor?
A. About four years.
Q. Have you had other positions at the water
management district?
A. Yes.
Q. What have they been?
A. Data manager, programmer/analyst,
administrative assistant, and field technician.
Q. How long were you a data manager?
A. I'm not sure. I'd have to look at my
resume. It's been quite a while.
Q. In what division or department were you a
data manager?
A. At that point, it was called Resource
Planning in the Water Quality Division.
Q. And what were your responsibilities as a
** 9
data manager in Resource Planning?
A. To manage the chemistry system.
Q. Were you in that position for months or
years?
A. Several years.
Q. Do you recall generally what years those
were?
A. Not offhand.
Q. Was that your job immediately prior to
your present one?
A. No.
Q. What job was immediately prior to the
present one?
A. Programmer/analyst.
Q. Was data manager prior to being
programmer/analyst?
A. Yes.
Q. And how long were you a
programmer/analyst?
A. Approximately two years.
Q. In what division or department?
A. Same, Resource Planning.
Q. And what were your responsibilities as
programmer/analyst?
A. To manage the computer resources in the
** 10
laboratory.
Q. Is that--did that job involve different
computer resources than the ones you presently
maintain?
A. No, pretty much the same.
Q. And when were you an administrative
assistant?
A. Probably in 1976, in that area.
Q. For--in what division or department were
you an administrative assistant?
A. It was the Water Quality Division,
Resource Planning Department.
Q. And what were your responsibilities as an
administrative assistant?
A. I think it was maintaining the field
instruments at that point.
Q. What field instruments are you referring
to?
A. Hydro lab, surveyor, NERA system surveyor,
and boats and motors that we use on our field trips.
Q. And how long were you an administrative
assistant?
A. Approximately two to three years.
Q. And what division or department were you a
field technician?
** 11
A. Resource Planning, Water Quality.
Q. What were your duties and
responsibilities?
A. Primarily to take water samples.
Q. How long were you a field technician?
A. Approximately four years.
Q. What is your educational background?
A. I have an Associate Degree in science from
a community college, and I have a two-year
correspondence degree in electronics technology from De
Vry Institute of Technology.
Q. Do you have any other formal training?
A. I have approximately 300 hours of in-house
training.
Q. What's the nature of that in-house
training?
A. Computer programming.
Q. Any other areas?
A. Management courses.
Q. Any other areas?
A. Data base.
Q. What were you trained with relation to
data base?
A. I was trained in Oracle data base.
Q. Do you have any training in data base
** 12
design?
A. Only in theory.
Q. Who is your supervisor in the Research and
Evaluation Department?
A. Which year?
Q. Presently.
A. Marylou Daniels.
Q. How long has she been your supervisor?
A. Approximately five years.
Q. What computers do you presently use at the
water management district?
A. I use a Concurrent 3230, IBM AT's. Those
are my primary resource.
Q. Do you make any use of the water
management district mainframe computers?
A. The Concurrent system could be considered
a mainframe.
Q. Do you make any use of the various mini
computers at the water management district?
A. The Concurrent system has a mini computer.
Q. What software packages do you use on the
3230?
A. Primarily LIMS 2000.
Q. Are there other software packages that you
utilize?
** 13
A. There are some custom programs that I've
written and some that the Perkin Elmer Corporation has
written.
Q. Describe the custom programs that you've
written.
A. Report generators, data conversion, data
base modification.
Q. Any other programs you've written?
A. Not that I can think of.
Q. What's the purpose of a report generator?
A. Basically provides a method to access the
data base and report data values to a printer.
Q. And what's the purpose of the data
conversion program you wrote?
A. To transfer historical data to another
mini computer.
Q. What historical data do you work with?
A. All water quality data.
Q. And where is that historical water quality
data stored?
A. Resides on two separate computers.
Q. Which are those?
A. The Concurrent 3230 and the Britten Lee
data base machine.
Q. What's the nature of the data base
** 14
modification program you wrote?
A. To make corrections.
Q. What kind of corrections?
A. Data points.
Q. What corrections would you make to data
points?
A. As an example, if a station were coded
wrong, I could change a station code.
Q. This would be a station coded on what data
base?
A. The LIMS 2000.
Q. What other corrections would you make?
A. Data values.
Q. How would you know that you should change
a station code?
A. I get a form from a project manager.
Q. And how would you know to change data
values?
A. I get a form or a printout.
Q. That tells you what?
A. Which data value to change.
Q. What would be the reason for changing data
values?
MS. STOLLMAN: I object to this line of
questioning. Could you explain the relevance of
** 15
why someone is changing data values to the
computer depositions here?
MS. NASH: It's relevant to what
information is on the computer.
MS. STOLLMAN: The reason that they're
changing data--
MS. NASH: Yes.
MS. STOLLMAN: --is relevant to what's
on the computer?
MS. NASH: That's correct.
MS. STOLLMAN: In what way?
MS. NASH: He can answer the question.
I'm not going to debate with you.
MS. STOLLMAN: I don't want to debate with
you. I would like an explanation.
MS. NASH: It goes to the integrity of the
data bases.
MS. STOLLMAN: But that's not what we're
here to discuss today.
MS. NASH: We're here to find out what
the--
MS. STOLLMAN: What kinds of data are on
what data bases, not the integrity of the data
on the data bases.
MS. NASH: He can answer the question.
** 16
MS. STOLLMAN: Well, do you think we're
here to discuss the integrity of the data on the
data bases?
MS. NASH: That's part of the deposition.
MS. STOLLMAN: Could you point to the part
of the notice that discusses that?
MS. NASH: I am not going to get into a
debate with you, Katharine. He can answer the
question or direct him not to answer and we'll
move to compel.
MS. STOLLMAN: Well, then I'll direct him
not to answer, because I don't believe that's
within the scope.
MS. NASH: What's the basis of your
directing him not to answer?
MS. STOLLMAN: I don't believe that it's
within the scope of this deposition.
MS. NASH: We'll let the Court decide
that.
BY MS. NASH:
Q. Mr. Raishe, you mentioned that you also
used software provided by Perkin Elmer Corporation?
A. Yes.
Q. What are those software packages provided
by Perkin Elmer?
** 17
A. Primarily data acquisition programs.
Q. Do those data acquisition programs have
names?
A. Yes.
Q. And what are the names?
A. The Continuous Flow software, the Atomic
Absorption software and the LIMS 2000 software.
Q. What is the function of the Continuous
Flow software?
A. To take data points from an instrument
called the continuous flow analyzer.
Q. And what is the function of the--you
mentioned a consortium software?
A. Pardon?
Q. The second software package, Perkin Elmer
software package, you mentioned was--
A. The atomic absorption.
Q. Atomic absorption.
What is the purpose of the atomic
absorption program?
A. To gather data on atomic absorption with
the spectrophotometer.
Q. And what is the function of the LIMS 2000
software?
A. To accept manual data from a variety of
** 18
instruments.
Q. Can you be more specific as to what
instruments?
A. pH meter, analytical balance,
spectrophotometer, conductivity meter, terminals.
Q. Are there any other Perkin Elmer software
packages that you use?
A. Not that I can think of that I haven't
mentioned.
Q. You testified that you maintained computer
resource in the lab. What does that work entail?
A. Terminals, printers, personal computers,
work stations, bar code printers, bar code scanners,
cabling,
Q. These are all within the chemical lab
division?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay, what printers are within the
chemical lab division?
A. There's a GP 300 line printer, a GP 100
line printer, an intermit bar code printer, several
Epson printers.
Q. Any others?
A. No.
Q. What terminals are in the chemical lab
** 19
division?
A. Approximately ten DEC 320 terminals, a
Perkin Elmer 550 terminal, three Techtronic 4105
terminals.
Q. What work does the chemical lab do on the
DEC 320 terminals?
A. They're used for access to the LIMS
system, access to the instruments that are directly
interfaced, such as the conductivity meter, pH meter,
balance, spectrophotometer.
Q. Anything else?
A. Data entry.
Q. What work is done in the chemical lab on
the Perkin Elmer 550 terminal?
A. Data entry, bar code label generation.
Q. And what work is done on the three
techtronic 4105 terminals?
A. Quality control graphics, data entry.
Q. From where is the data obtained that's
entered on these terminals in the chemical lab
division?
A. Various forms.
Q. Such as?
A. Sample log-in form, data input form.
Q. Any others?
** 20
A. Reports.
Q. What data is contained on the sample
log-in form?
A. Field information where the sample was
collected.
Q. And what is the nature of samples that are
collected that are on the sample log-in form?
A. I don't understand.
Q. What does the data relate to?
A. Where a sample bottle was collected.
Q. What is the nature of the data on the data
input form?
A. Corrections, any miscellaneous
information.
Q. Do you transfer data files from the
computers you use to any other computers within the
division?
A. Just to the Britten Lee data base machine.
Q. What procedure do you use to transfer to
the Britten Lee?
A. I use a Fortran program that generates a
card image file that's transferred.
Q. Does the Fortran program have a name?
A. Britten Lee.
Q. Do you create data files?
** 21
A. Yes.
Q. What is the nature of the data files you
create?
A. Word files.
Q. What is the data in those word files?
A. Report files, not word files. Report
files.
Q. Report files.
What is the data in those report files?
A. Varies with the report I run.
Q. What's the nature of reports you work on?
A. I generate many reports. They're specific
to a specific task. We're talking about hundreds of
reports.
MS. STOLLMAN: Maybe if you could define
what you mean by "nature."
BY MS. NASH:
Q. What is the subject matter of the reports
he creates?
A. Data points, sample status, test status,
result status, result values, sample values.
Q. Where is the data obtained from on which
you generate reports on data points?
A. The data base.
Q. What's the name of the data base?
** 22
A. LIMS 2000.
Q. Are all the reports you generate from the
LIMS 2000 data base?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there a directory of the reports you
create?
A. Yes.
Q. Does that directory have a name?
A. It is a data set within the data base.
Q. What is that data set called?
A. Reports.
Q. And is that data set broken down by name
of individual reports?
A. Yes.
Q. Are the reports further identified by date
or location of information or any other identifying
factors?
A. Each report has a date.
Q. Do you do any work with the chemical
analysis data on LIMS?
A. Could you be more specific?
Q. There is a program that apparently deals
with chemical analysis data that's on LIMS. Do you do
anything with that?
A. We do approximately a hundred and fifty
** 23
different analyses. I would need more specific
information on what analyses you're interested in.
Q. What are the various analyses that you do?
A. You want a hundred and fifty of them?
Q. Yes.
MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer to the
extent you can remember.
A. pH, conductivity, total dissolved solids,
total suspended solids, sodium, calcium, potassium,
magnesium, iron, total dissolved iron, total
phosphorous, total dissolved phosphorous, ortho
phosphorous, NOX, NO2, TKM, amonia, chloride, silicate,
sulphate.
Those are all I can recall offhand.
BY MS. NASH:
Q. Do you run all those analyses?
A. Personally?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Do you run any of those analyses?
A. No.
Q. Who in the division runs those analyses?
A. Technicians, analysts, chemists.
Q. The reports that you do create using the
LIMS 2000, who requests that you make, do those
** 24
reports?
A. No one. I generate my own reports.
Q. To whom do you provide the reports that
you generate?
A. Myself.
Q. What training do you do on the use of
computers?
A. How to access the computer, how to log on
to the computer, how to do a directory of your files,
how to load the menu, how to generate reports, how to
run programs to transfer data.
Q. Are there any manuals or written
instructions that you utilize to assist you in the
training you've been describing?
A. Yes.
Q. Do those manuals have a name?
A. LIMS 2000 user manual.
Q. Are there any internal water management
district guidelines or manuals that you use in the
training you do?
A. No.
Q. When you were data manager with Resource
Planning, you said that you managed the chemical
system; is that correct?
A. Correct.
** 25
Q. What did that entail?
A. That was a batch-processing system
consisting of 35 Fortran programs.
Q. Were you creating a data base on--in
managing this system?
A. It wouldn't be considered a data base. It
was a data storage onto a tape device.
Q. And what use was made of this data that
was stored?
A. To generate reports.
Q. What sort of reports?
A. Water quality, tabular data.
Q. If you have any questions on the use of
the LIMS 2000, where do you turn to get questions
answered?
A. Norwalk, Connecticut, to the Perkin Elmer
Corporation.
Q. Do you do backup of the data that's on the
Perkin Elmer?
A. Yes.
Q. And how often is that backup done?
A. There's a system backup done by the
computer operators on a weekly basis. I do backups on
my own personal files as needed.
Q. And where do you maintain that backup of
** 26
your personal files?
A. In the computer room.
Q. In what format?
A. 2400 foot 6250 bytes per inch density
tapes.
Q. Do you know how many tapes you presently
have are backup?
A. Approximately a hundred and twenty.
Q. And what's the length of time for which
you maintain the backup?
A. Three years.
Q. And what are the data files that are on
your tapes?
A. Raw data files from instruments, result
files.
Q. Are there summaries or analyses of those
raw data files located anywhere?
A. In the data base.
Q. Is there a name by which the summaries or
analyses would be referenced?
A. Test name.
Q. Were you asked to compile a list of your
computer files related to this litigation?
A. No.
Q. Do you perform any statistical analyses of
** 27
the water chemistry data?
A. No.
Q. Do you perform any graphic analyses of the
water chemistry data?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether anyone performs
statistical analyses of the water chemistry data on the
Perkin Elmer?
A. Yes.
Q. Who does that?
A. The quality control officer.
Q. And who is that?
A. Leslie Teets.
Q. Do you know whether anyone else performs
graphic analyses of the data on the Perkin Elmer?
A. Project managers.
Q. And who are the project managers?
A. They are the people that submit samples to
the laboratory.
Q. What are their names?
A. Brad Jones, Jeff Hare, Dave Soballe, Larry
Grossa, Guy Germain, Kathy Pietro, Nancy Urban, Dan
Honer, Dewey Worth.
Those are all the names I can recall.
Q. Do you do any analyses of nutrients?
** 28
A. Personally?
Q. As part of your job, yes.
A. No.
Q. Do others within your division do any
analyses of nutrients?
A. Yes.
Q. Who?
MS. STOLLMAN: Is this, again, on the
Perkin Elmer?
MS. NASH: On whatever machines are within
the division he works in.
A. I'm not sure which technicians do which
tests. That's the lab director and the chemist's
responsibility. I could speculate, but I don't know
for sure.
BY MS. NASH:
Q. Do you do other work on the Perkin Elmer
that you haven't mentioned to this point?
A. Not that I can think of.
MS. NASH: No further questions.
MS. STOLLMAN: Are you all right? Do you
want some more coffee?
THE WITNESS: I'm fine.
MR. RICHARDS: I am not going to be able
to finish any time soon. Do you want--
** 29
MS. STOLLMAN: About how long do you think
you have?
MR. RICHARDS: We could go off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
(Short break.)
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Q. Mr. Raishe, my name's Joe Richards. I
represent the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston.
Are you familiar with the chemical
analysis archive system?
A. Yes.
Q. And I believe that was instituted about
three years ago by Kevin Rodberg.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what system preceded the CAS
system?
A. The LIMS system.
Q. Do you know why the--why that switch from
the LIMS to the CAS?
A. Yes. To put the historical data into a
relational data base.
Q. And as data manager, did you oversee that
LIMS system?
A. Yes.
** 30
Q. And what type of data was contained on
that LIMS system?
A. Water quality data, raw data from the
instruments. That's how we generate the water quality
data.
Q. Any other data contained on that LIMS
system?
A. No.
Q. And all that data that was on the LIMS
system is now on the CAS system?
A. No, only the finished product, the
historical data set.
Q. And the raw data is still contained on the
LIMS?
A. Three years back is.
Q. Is there any data on the--in the CAS
system that is not on the LIMS?
A. Yes.
Q. What is that?
A. I know of contract data that comes in for,
I think, primarily organic analysis.
Q. And is there any data on the LIMS system
that's not on the CAS?
A. All the raw data.
Q. And the raw data that has been generated
** 31
since the institution of the CAS system, is that also
contained on the LIMS?
A. Yes.
Q. When were you data base data manager of
the LIMS system?
A. I believe that was data manager during the
period when we had the patch system, which was the
series of 35 Fortran programs ran in batch mode that
preceded the LIMS.
Q. And what data was contained on that batch
system? Is that the--
A. The same thing that would be contained on
the LIMS, the raw data files and historical water
quality data.
Q. And when you were data base manager, are
you aware, were there any accidental losses of raw or
historical water quality data?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Are you aware of any accidental losses of
raw or historical data from the LIMS system?
A. No.
Q. How about for the CAS system?
A. No.
Q. The Concurrent 3230, is that also referred
to as the Perkin Elmer?
** 32
A. Yes, it is.
Q. And are you knowledgeable as to the
sources of the data that are kept on that computer?
A. Yes.
Q. What are those sources?
A. Various instruments within the laboratory,
field data sheets.
Q. What instruments?
A. Atomic absorption spectrophotometer, the
continuous flow analyzer, the flow injection analyzer,
analytical balances, pH meter, conductivity meter,
spectrophotometer.
Q. Are there any instruments in the field
that transfer data to this system?
A. No.
Q. Any other source of data to this system?
A. No.
MR. RICHARDS: Could you read back the
answer to the question of the sources of the
data.
(Thereupon, the answer on line 10 through
13 was read by the Reporter as recorded above.)
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Q. What are these field data sheets that you
referred to?
** 33
A. These are the sheets that technicians fill
out when they take a sample as to location of the
sample.
Q. Is there guidelines within the chemistry
lab division for the entry of the data from these field
sheets onto the computer?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you explain those guidelines?
A. Enter data that's on the sheet.
Q. Is there any quality control or quality
assurance guidelines for the entry of that data?
A. No.
Q. Does anyone check the work of the people
that actually put in the data?
A. Yes.
Q. Who would do that?
A. The project managers that submit the field
data sheets.
Q. Are there guidelines for the project
managers to follow for checking the work of the data
entry people?
A. I believe there are guidelines. I don't
know what they are. It's--
Q. Is there a manual or--that you know of?
A. Yes, there is. There is a quality
** 34
assurance manual.
Q. Do you know the name of that manual?
A. Quality assurance manual, I believe.
Q. That's it.
Is that specific to the Chemistry Lab
Division or is it districtwide?
A. It contains information for the chemistry
laboratory and, I believe, for the technicians who take
the water samples.
Q. Are you aware of who within the district
has access to the Perkin Elmer LIMS system?
A. I would have a list of users of the
system.
Q. What would that list be called?
A. Users list.
Q. Is that specific to the Perkin Elmer?
A. Yes.
Q. And are there guidelines set up for
determining who within the district has access to this
system?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you aware of those guidelines?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you explain them?
A. Basically anyone that wants access to the
** 35
data can read the data if they get an account on the
system, which they have to register through me.
Q. And they are granted read-only access?
A. Yes.
Q. And you make that determination as to
whether--
A. Yes.
Q. Does anyone have write access to the
Perkin Elmer?
A. Several people.
Q. Who are those people?
A. Myself, Marylou Daniel, the lab director,
Jose Vidal, supervisory professional chemist, Bill
Donovan, supervisory professional chemist, Pat Huey,
data entry technician, Carol Levine, analyst, Henry
Alexander, analyst, Pedro Rodriguez, analyst, Carol
Millman, chemist.
Those are all I can recall.
Q. These people have authority to change the
data that is on the computer?
A. No. Well, some do.
Q. Who has authority to change the data?
A. Pat Huey, the data entry technician,
myself, Marylou Daniel, Jose Vidal, Bill Donovan,
Leslie Teets.
** 36
Q. Did you say Mr. Rodriguez?
A. Yes, earlier.
Q. Did you list him as having authority to
change the data?
A. No.
Q. Are there policies or guidelines set up
governing the changing of data on the computer?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you explain those guidelines?
A. The person must provide a data input form
or printout which is dated and initialed.
Q. And what's contained on that form?
A. Change of result.
Q. Do they have to provide the reason for the
change?
A. Yes.
Q. What would be a valid reason or reasons to
change that?
MS. STOLLMAN: I object to that question.
I don't think that's relevant to this
deposition.
MR. RICHARDS: I believe we've already
asked these questions of other witnesses in this
deposition.
MS. STOLLMAN: Could you repeat the
** 37
question, please?
MR. RICHARDS: Why would--what would be a
reason to change data?
MS. STOLLMAN: I don't think any of the
other witnesses have discussed the reasons, a
valid reason, for changing data.
MR. RICHARDS: I believe Mr. Rodberg did.
I asked Mr. Rodberg in circumstances for why he
would go into the CAS system and change data.
MS. STOLLMAN: I believe that Mr. Raishe
has already answered questions to that effect.
He would go in and change data at the
instruction of someone who filled out a form.
MR. RICHARDS: And he explained that there
were guidelines for a change of data, and I'm
just asking him to explain those guidelines.
MS. STOLLMAN: I'll let you answer the
question.
A. The reasons vary. Can be wrong sample
number associated with the result. Trace sequence of
sample numbers are out of sync with the data results
being put with them. Can be quality control samples
that fall outside of acceptable ranges could be
repeated.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
** 38
Q. Does someone have to approve a change of
data?
A. I'm sorry, would you repeat that?
Q. Does someone have to approve a request to
change data?
A. Only the person requesting it.
Q. Does anyone outside the district have
access to the Perkin Elmer LIMS system?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Would someone else at the district have
knowledge as to whether anyone outside the district had
access?
A. No.
Q. Does the Perkin Elmer have capabilities to
provide outside access?
A. Yes.
Q. By what system would someone outside the
district be able to access the Perkin Elmer?
A. Through a modem.
Q. For the data that is entered into the
Perkin Elmer system, how much of the data is entered
manually, what portion?
A. I can't say with any certainty. I can
guess at--
Q. Fifty percent?
** 39
A. No.
Q. Less than 50?
MS. STOLLMAN: I don't--you can answer if
you know. Don't speculate.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Q. Less than 50 or more than 50?
A. Well, I don't know exactly.
Q. You can give an estimate if you feel
you're qualified to do that?
A. Perhaps 20 percent.
Q. So the rest would be transferred
automatically from the instruments you described.
A. Correct.
Q. In what data bases are the water quality
data stored on the Perkin Elmer computer?
A. DMS 32.
Q. Do you know what elements or trace metals
are analyzed within the atomic absorption system?
A. I know some of them.
Q. Could you list the ones you do know?
A. Total strontium, total dissolved
strontium, total manganese, total dissolved manganese,
total chromium, total dissolved chromium, total
manganese, total dissolved manganese, total arsenic,
total dissolved arsenic, total lead, total dissolved
** 40
lead, total copper, total dissolved copper.
That's all I can think of.
Q. And for the continuous flow software, do
you know what parameters are measured by that?
A. I can name some of them, yes.
Q. Please name the ones you can recall.
A. Ortho phosphorous, total phosphorous, NOX,
NO2, TKN, silicate, sulphate, color.
That's all I can think of.
Q. I believe you stated that you transfer the
water quality to the Britten Lee computer; is that
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that information that is transferred,
is that retained on the--on the Perkin Elmer?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it retained in any other form or any
other place?
A. No.
Q. The backup tapes that you use on the
Perkin Elmer, do they contain this information?
A. Yes.
Q. And those backup tapes for the Perkin
Elmer, are they full back ups of the entire data base
or periodic?
** 41
A. There are two types of backup which are
done weekly. One is the data base backup, which backs
up the data base. And there is a backup of all the raw
data files and user account files.
Q. And what media are those backups contained
on?
A. Magnetic tapes.
Q. And you stated that those tapes are
retained for three years; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you stated earlier that you generate
reports and report files; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And I believe you stated that they are not
given to anyone; is that correct?
A. I can think of one that I do give to
someone else.
Q. Which is that?
A. It's a monthly utilization report.
Q. Who is that given to?
A. Marylou Daniel, laboratory director.
Q. What's the nature of the information in
that report?
A. Basically breaks down the number of tests
that were done in a preceding month as a percentage of
** 42
the total.
Q. Would that report indicate what type of
tests were run?
A. No, it doesn't.
Q. In reference to these report files that
you would create, you mentioned data points, sample
status, sample values; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Does anybody utilize these reports that
you create?
A. I do.
Q. For what purpose?
A. Sample tracking.
Q. Anything else?
A. Review of data results.
Q. Does anyone else utilize these reports?
A. Not the same reports I utilize. The
system has a report generated as a menu function.
People generate whatever reports they are--is
appropriate for their position.
Q. Are you familiar with those reports that
people are able to generate?
A. Some of them.
Q. Could you list them?
A. There's a Chm2 report, C-h-m 2. There's a
** 43
phos week report, there's a NITRI week report,
N-i-t-r-i, week. There's a Chm 4 report.
Those are all I can think of.
Q. Can you explain to me what a phos week
report is or contains?
A. Contains phosphorous values.
Q. For districtwide, any particular areas?
A. It's a program--it's a report that's used
to check for reversals in the phosphorous species to
determine if a phosphorous value might need to be
rerun.
Q. Checks for outwires?
A. Reversals. For instance, a total
phosphorous cannot be larger than a constituent
phosphorous, ortho phosphorous.
Q. Does it contain any other information?
A. It generates a report of any reversals in
those.
Q. Only reversals?
A. Only reversals.
Q. And the NIT week report?
A. Does the same function for the nitrogen
species.
Q. Do you know what individuals at the
district utilize this information, these reports?
** 44
A. Jose Vidal and Bill Donovan.
Q. Both individuals for both the reports we
discussed or--
A. Yes.
Q. Do they use this information to change the
data?
A. They use it to flag samples for reruns.
Q. Could you explain to me what a Chm 2
report is?
A. It's a weekly listing of all results
completed in the lab in the previous week Monday to
Friday.
Q. Do you know who utilizes this Chm 2
report?
A. The supervisory professional chemists
review it. It's then released to the project managers
who review it.
Q. Are these reports utilized to review the
accuracy of the data?
A. Correct.
Q. Any other purpose?
A. No.
Q. Are these, the three reports we've
discussed so far, are they maintained in some format on
the computer?
** 45
A. Yes.
Q. Where are they maintained?
A. On the backup tapes.
Q. Those same backup tapes the magnetic tapes
that are maintained for three years?
A. Correct.
Q. Would that apply to the Chm 4 report,
also?
A. They are not backed up.
Q. Would you explain to me what a Chm 4
report is?
A. Chm 4 report is a tabular listing of the
field data sheets that are submitted by the project
managers. They use those to verify that the field data
was entered correctly.
Q. It's an inventory of the field data
sheets, is that what you said?
A. Correct.
Q. Does that report contain all the
information that was contained on the field data
sheets?
A. Yes.
Q. And you said those reports are not
maintained?
A. The computer image is not maintained. The
** 46
actual report is maintained as a permanent record in
printout form.
Q. Hard copy is maintained?
A. Yes.
Q. For how long is that hard copy maintained?
A. Three years.
Q. Where are those hard copies located?
A. Some are in the laboratory, others are
where record management stores them.
Q. Did you state that the purpose of these
Chm 4 reports is to verify that the data was
entry--entered onto the computer?
A. Correct.
Q. Any other purpose they serve?
A. No.
Q. Do you know who utilizes these Chm 4
reports?
A. The project managers.
Q. Are you aware of a process that takes
place after a reversal is identified?
A. Not specifically.
Q. Who would know about that?
A. Jose Vidal or Bill Donovan.
Q. Do you know what would happen if a sample
was rerun after flagging a reversal and the reversal
** 47
still appeared?
MS. STOLLMAN: Rerun on the computer?
MR. RICHARDS: Yes.
A. That's a decision the chemist makes.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Q. "The chemist," which chemist are you
referring to?
A. Whoever reviews the data. Bill Donovan or
Jose Vidal.
Q. Are there other chemists that do review
this data?
A. No. Project managers also review the
data.
Q. Who is the lab director?
A. Marylou Daniel.
Q. Besides the read-only access that you've
mentioned for the Perkin Elmer system, are there any
other procedures implemented to protect the integrity
of the data base?
A. I'm not sure. Can you be a little more
specific what you mean by that?
Q. Are there any quality assurance or quality
control guidelines instituted to maintain the integrity
of the data on the Perkin Elmer system?
A. The system software reports any anomalies
** 48
that may occur in data base transactions. It's a
function of the operating system in the dated
management system.
Q. Are there any other procedures or
guidelines that you're aware of?
A. No.
Q. Are you considered the data base
administrator for the Perkin Elmer system?
A. Yes.
Q. In your capacities, have you ever
generated data files to be transferred to someone
outside the district from the Perkin Elmer system?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you explain those instances?
A. I sent an entire historical data set to
the DER at one point. And I have handled individual
data requests at times.
Q. And what format was that data transferred
to DER?
A. It was for--it was transferred on magnetic
tape.
Q. That historical data set, is that the raw
data?
A. No, that's the finished.
Q. That's the finished product--
** 49
A. Yes.
Q. --which is contained on the CAS system.
A. Correct.
Q. Could you explain to me the difference
between the raw data and the historical data set?
A. Raw data is the data that comes directly
from the instruments prior to review. The final data
is the reviewed and released data, which is then
transferred to the historical data set.
Q. Besides reviewed, what else is done to the
data base between the raw data and the historical data
set?
A. Modifications are made if appropriate.
Q. That would be if a reversal was found--
A. Correct.
Q. --outwires were removed.
A. Correct.
Q. What is the procedure to identify
outwires?
A. The quality control officer generates
quality control samples which go into these sampling
sequence, and they must fall within a certain range in
order for the technician to accept the data from that
trace sequence.
Q. Do you know who sets that range?
** 50
A. Leslie Teets--
MS. STOLLMAN: Again, I would object to
this line of questioning.
MR. RICHARDS: On what grounds?
MS. STOLLMAN: On the grounds that
you've--it goes beyond the scope of this
deposition notice.
MR. RICHARDS: It's all related to the
data that's contained--
MS. STOLLMAN: He's answered questions on
what data is contained on the system. He's not
here to answer detailed questions about what the
difference is.
MR. RICHARDS: I'm just trying--
MS. STOLLMAN: He's identified the
types of data that there are.
MR. RICHARDS: I'm just trying to
determine the differences between these two data
sets he's indicated.
MS. STOLLMAN: I don't believe that's what
he's here to testify about today, to identify
differences between the types of data. He's
here to identify types of data. He's identified
types of data.
MR. RICHARDS: I don't think there's a
** 51
difference between identifying types of data and
identifying the difference between the two.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Q. Who is the quality assurance officer you
mentioned?
A. Leslie Teets.
Q. I asked you a little while ago about the
transferring data sets. You mentioned you transferred
a historical data set to DER. Are there other
instances where you transferred data?
A. Yes, there are, but I don't recall
offhand. It's been quite a while.
Q. When you transferred data sets, do you
charge those entities for the--for anything?
A. No.
Q. Are you aware of any pricing system to
charge for man hours or anything when someone requests
a data set from the district?
A. No.
Q. We were talking about your report files.
Are they stored on your personal computer?
A. No.
Q. Where are they stored?
A. On the Perkin Elmer system.
Q. How long are they maintained on the P & E?
** 52
A. Not very long. They usually--because
they're temporary in nature. They're for a specific
bit of information that is usually only useful for a
short period of time.
Q. Are they backed up?
A. No.
MR. RICHARDS: That's all I have. Thank
you very much.
(Whereupon, the deposition was concluded
at 6:12 p.m.)
