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Deposition from United States v. SFWMD, et al., Case No. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER |
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Deposition from United States v. SFWMD, et al., Case No. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER |
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** 1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al., )
)
Plaintiffs, )
)
VS. )
)
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, )
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA )
WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; )
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL )
REGULATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, )
SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF )
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et. al., )
)
Defendants. )
/
DEPOSITION OF MARIE-CHRISTINE LEAVITT
TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF
***
DATE: August 27, 1990
PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICE
Commerce Center
324 Datura Street, Suite 303
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
(407) 659-4046
** 2
INDEX
August 27, 1990 DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
MARIE-CHRISTINE LEAVITT
By Ms. Beverly Nash 5
By Mr. Joe Richards 25
** 3
The deposition of Marie-Christine Leavitt,
in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken
before me, KAREN BAUER FRY, C.S.R., Court Reporter
and Notary Public for the State of Florida at
Large, at Professional Reporting Service, Commerce
Center, 324 Datura Street, in the City of West Palm
Beach, Palm Beach County, in the State of Florida,
beginning at the hour of 10:30 o'clock a.m., on
August 27, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said
cause for the taking of said deposition, which is
annexed to the Court file herein, on behalf of the
Plaintiff in the above-entitled action pending in
the above-named court.
The appearances at said time and place were
as follows:
Beverly Sherman Nash, Esquire
U.S. Department of Justice
Environmental and Natural
Resources Division
P. O. Box 663
Washington, D.C. 20044-0663
Attorney for Plaintiff
Joseph Richards, Esquire
Peeples, Earl & Blank, P.A.
Two South Biscayne Blvd.
One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636
Miami, Florida 33131
Attorney for cities of Belle Glade
and Clewiston
** 4
Katharine Stollman, Esquire
Allison Burdette
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom
1440 New York Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005
Attorney for South Florida Water
Management District
Jackie Waters, Esquire
So. Florida Water Management District
Box 24680
3301 Gun Club Road
West Palm Beach, FL 33416
ALSO PRESENT: Toni Lafuente
Mike Rose
David Buker
** 5
THEREUPON,
MARIE-CHRISTINE LEAVITT
being by me first duly sworn to tell the whole truth,
as hereinafter certified, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. NASH:
Q. Please state your name?
A. Marie-Christine Leavitt.
Q. Ms. Leavitt, my name is Beverly Nash, and
I'm counsel for the United States in this
litigation.
We're here in this deposition to find out
about the Water Management District's computers,
what information is on the computers, and how it
can be accessed.
You're here today as a representative of
the district having a knowledge in one or more of
the areas in which we're interested. Have you
been shown the list of categories?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And which ones are you here on?
A. I think I need to look at the list for a
second, and I can tell you.
** 6
Okay. I would say in No. 2, No. 3, and
No. 6, and I may know some things about other
areas, but I don't work directly with them.
Q. What is your present title or position?
A. I'm data base manager in the regulation
department.
Q. What is your job description?
A. I design and manage data base application
systems for the regulation department.
Q. And how long have you been in that role?
A. Two years.
Q. Have you had other positions with the
Water Management District?
A. No.
Q. What is your educational background?
A. I have two bachelors, not in computer
science. Then, I went back to school and I have
about 60 or 70 credit hours in computer science
only.
My first bachelor was in languages and
linguistics from the University of Provence in
France. My second bachelor was in humanities and
communications from FAU.
The rest of my education in computer
science has been at FAU and Palm Beach Junior
** 7
College, and a lot of professional classes as
well.
Q. Who is your supervisor?
A. Ann Roth.
Q. And what is her title?
A. She's the director of the Regulatory
Administration.
Q. Are there any Water Management District
employees that work for you?
A. Yes, one data base analyst. His name is
Dean Corry. I supervise a lot of contract people
on a temporary basis, short-term assignment.
Q. What is the nature of the work that these
contract people do?
A. Programming, coding.
Q. What computers do you use at the Water
Management District?
A. The areas of development we do is on the
Oracle Relational Data Base Management System, on
the VAX 8820 mainframe, that's the bulk of the
development that we do the work on.
Q. What is the nature of the work that you do
on the VAX 8820?
A. Design data base application systems for
use in the regulation department.
** 8
Q. Can you give me specifics on some of the
data base application systems you have designed?
A. Permit application tracking system. We
have a regulatory data base, water use well
monitoring system.
We have converted series of old ones that
we're in the process of redesigning, which aren't
that important.
There's a natural resource management
water quality data base. We put together a
prototype for permitting the works of the
district.
The bulk of the work, at this point, is in
development only. The ones I've listed are in
production, which means there is actually data in
those systems.
Q. On the permit application tracking system,
what is the source of the data in that system?
A. Surface water management applications for
permits and water use. Water use is water
consumption. Surface water management is the
discharge of water. This is for the entire
district.
Q. And does that permit application tracking
system have a name?
** 9
A. That's what it's called.
Q. And this is on the VAX 8820?
A. Correct.
Q. And you mentioned a regulatory data base.
A. We've converted the old regulatory --
MS. STOLLMAN: Do you have a question
with respect to the regulatory data base?
MS. NASH: Yes.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) What is that data base and
what is its function?
MS. STOLLMAN: What is the data base;
is that your question?
MS. NASH: Yes.
A. It contains administrative and technical
data on permits, surface water management and
water use permits, issued by the regulation
department.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) And you mentioned a water
use well monitoring system?
A. Yes.
Q. What is the source of the data in that
data base?
A. The source of the data is the monitoring
that is received from the permittees as a result of
the special conditions in the permits.
** 10
Q. And what is the purpose of this water use
well monitoring system?
A. It tracks the amount of water that is
pumped out of the aquifers from permitted wells,
the water quality, along the saltwater intrusion
line, for permitted wells, again, only.
Q. You also mentioned a natural resource
management water quality data base, what is the
purpose of that data base?
MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to the
questions on purpose except to the extent it will
enable you to locate where they are on the computer
system?
A. What is the purpose of the application?
Q. (By Ms. Nash) Yes.
A. To track the data that is submitted by
surface water management permittees as a result of
the special condition on their permits.
Q. And the source of the data in that natural
resource management water quality data base is what?
A. The water quality analysis submitted by
the permittees.
Q. If someone from outside the Water
Management District wanted to access any of these
data bases, how would they do that?
** 11
MS. STOLLMAN: Which system are you
referring to?
MS. NASH: Let's start with the
permit application tracking system.
MS. STOLLMAN: I don't believe we've
established that outside access is possible.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is outside access possible
to the permit application tracking system?
A. It is not possible at this point. If it
could be done, programs and procedure for that have
to be set up to give access, but no decision has
been made at this point for any of those data bases
to be accessed to the outside.
Q. Is the permit application tracking system
accessed by others outside the regulation division
within the Water Management District?
A. No.
Q. The regulatory data base you mentioned, is
that accessed by others outside the division within
the Water Management District?
A. Could you -- okay. No, the data base is
not accessed outside of the department.
Q. Is the information from the data base
provided to others outside the department?
MS. STOLLMAN: Are you talking about
** 12
transmitted on the computer?
MS. NASH: Within the Water
Management District.
MS. STOLLMAN: Is your question
limited to what information is transmitted by
computer?
MS. NASH: Not necessarily. If there
is hard copy analyses of the information, we're
entitled to know that also.
MS. STOLLMAN: A hard copy analyses
generated off the computer system in the regulation
department?
MS. NASH: Yes.
A. Yes, it is available.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) In what format?
A. Reports.
Q. What is the nature of the reports?
A. Could you rephrase that?
Q. Yes. Describe the subject matter,
content, nature of the reports?
A. Regulatory data, administrative and
technical data pertaining to surface water
management and water use permits.
Q. Are there regular reports that are
prepared?
** 13
A. I'm sorry.
Q. Are there reports prepared on a regular
basis?
A. If requested, they are.
Q. Are any reports requested on a regular
basis on the regulatory data base?
A. Yes.
Q. What are those reports?
A. A report listing the technical data
contained on surface water management and water
use permits.
Q. And who within the Water Management
District requests these regular reports?
A. I don't have that information. I don't
generate the report.
Q. Who generates the reports?
A. The data -- the request for the data, hard
copy data, does not go through me. I only put
together the tools for the reports to be generated.
Q. Do you know who gets the request for the
reports?
A. Beth Colavecchio in the regulatory
administration division.
Q. So Beth Colavecchio would be the one to
know where the reports that are generated go then;
** 14
is that correct?
A. I guess. You would have to ask her. I
only know that she gets requests for regulatory
data and fills those requests.
Q. Do others outside your department access
the water use well monitoring system data base?
A. Yes. Other district departments access
the data.
Q. Which departments are those?
A. I believe planning, research, and
evaluation do.
Q. And can you describe the procedure they
would utilize to access that data?
MS. STOLLMAN: Are you asking about
the computer procedure?
MS. NASH: Yes.
MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you
know.
A. Yeah, I do know, because we have given
them the option to instead of creating a report, of
creating a file that they export of well monitoring
data.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) Does this file have a
particular name?
A. I'm sure, but I'd have to -- right now I
** 15
don't know.
Q. Who would know?
A. It's menu driven, so it's transparent to
the user.
Q. Is there a directory in which these file
names exist?
A. I don't believe so. They're, like,
reports. Once they're created, they just get
overlaid at the time -- the next time that another
file is created. They're just temporary files.
What happens after that, I can't tell you. You'd
have to talk to the people who request that data.
Q. What software do you utilize for the
permit application tracking system?
A. The software from Oracle relational data
base. We use sequel form, sequel report, and
sequel plus.
Q. Do you use any different software for the
regulatory data base?
A. No.
Q. What about the water use well monitoring
system?
A. We use the same software for most of the
development on the VAX when -- in some cases, when
needed, we also use C or Fortran, but the bulk of
** 16
the development is done with Oracle tools.
Q. Do others in the Water Management
District have access to the natural resource
management water quality data base?
A. I don't think so. I'm not sure, but I
don't think so.
Q. Do you know whether that data base would
be accessible by entities outside the Water
Management District?
A. It's the same as the other data bases. No
decision has been made for any of the data to be
accessible to the outside, because of the obvious
security and bug infiltration problems. At this
point, it is not possible, no.
Q. It's your testimony, then, that none of
the data bases with which you work are presently
accessible by entities outside the Water Management
District?
A. That's correct.
Q. Does the permit application tracking
system break down its information by location?
A. Could you specify? I don't understand the
question. I mean, I can't answer it unless you
rephrase it or something.
Q. Is there a way to access information in
** 17
the permit application tracking system by location
of the permit?
MS. STOLLMAN: Are you asking whether
they're separate computer files for each permit?
Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is there a way to access
the data by location?
A. Yes.
Q. And how would that be done?
A. By the nature of the software utilized, a
relational data base allows you -- allows you to
quarry by any one of its components.
Q. Is that also true with the regulatory data
base?
A. Yes.
Q. And the water use well monitoring system?
A. As long as the elements that you're
looking for are defined in the data base.
Q. Is location and element defined in the
water use well monitoring system data base?
A. You need to rephrase that question. I
can't answer it that way.
Q. I guess, then, I will ask: What are the
components or the elements that are defined in the
water use well monitoring system data base?
MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you
** 18
understand the question.
A. Yeah, I do understand the question, but
it's just -- I can't right this minute tell you
every single element.
There are different ways -- I mean, there
are different -- there are a lot of data fields. I
can't -- you have the permit number, the well
number, the amount of pumpage, the date it was
pumped, where the well is located; but there are many
ways to locate a well. I'm not sure which fields
are on there and which aren't. I would have to go
and check. Right this minute, I can't sit down and
say, these are all the fields. I may give you some
which are not there and I may have forgotten some.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is there documentation or
other written information that indicates what data
fields are in the water use well monitoring system
data base?
A. We have some user documentation.
Q. Does that user documentation have a name?
A. It's water use well monitoring system user
documentation, there's no other name.
Q. Do you know what data fields are in the
permit application tracking system?
A. About 200. Yes, I do. There are 200 of
** 19
them. I don't --
Q. Is there a list or other documentation of
what those data fields are?
A. We do have user documentation as well for
the tracking system.
Q. Does that documentation have a name?
A. It's no specific name, no.
Q. Do you know what data fields are in the
regulatory data base?
A. Yes.
Q. What are those data fields?
A. It's the same thing. It's a long list.
Right off the bat, I can't tell you which ones are
and which ones aren't.
Q. Is there any documentation that would list
what data fields are in the regulatory data base?
A. Yes, there is.
Q. And what is that documentation called?
A. It's just user documentation.
Q. What other data fields are in the natural
resource management water quality data base?
A. All the data elements that we track for
water quality and permit number and some generic
information.
Q. Are there reports that are generated on
** 20
this natural resource management water quality data
base?
A. Yes.
Q. What's the nature of those reports?
A. They contain the samples collected on the
permitted wells. I mean, not on the permitted
wells, on the permitted water quality sites,
listing the different elements of analysis and
their value.
Q. Do you know to whom these reports go?
A. No, I don't.
Q. Do you know who might know?
A. Buddy Robinson, and national resource
management division writes the reports.
Q. Are the reports generated on the permit
application tracking system?
A. Yes.
Q. And what's the nature of those reports?
A. They track the work flow and the schedule
of applications throughout the department.
Q. And to whom do those reports go?
MS. STOLLMAN: When you ask, "to whom
do those reports go," are you asking her to what
computer system are they transferred?
MS. NASH: No. I'm asking to whom
** 21
the reports go.
MS. STOLLMAN: Are they transferred
on the computer?
THE WITNESS: The reports?
MS. STOLLMAN: Yeah.
THE WITNESS: No, they get printed.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) And to whom do the reports
go?
A. The entire department.
Q. You mentioned that the bulk of the work
you're doing now is development?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. And what is the nature of the data base
that's being developed?
MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer this to
the extent that you know. If something is in the
early stages of development, I don't think it's a
proper subject for this deposition.
A. Yeah, because it's not going to be in
production for a while. There's only going to be
data, I think, associated with it for a while.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) What is the general subject
matter that the data base is being developed?
MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to this
whole line of questioning. If there is no data
** 22
involved with any of these speculative problems --
A. At this point, there is no data, so.
Q. (By Ms. Nash) Do you utilize any of the
microcomputers or personal computers in the Water
Management District?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Which ones?
A. The personal computers.
Q. Which ones?
A. Just -- I utilize my PC and --
Q. Which PC?
A. Do you want the --
Q. I want the model number and name.
A. It's an IBM personal computer.
Q. And what work do you do on the IBM PC?
A. Word Perfect, Symphony. I use it as a
gateway to move data from the VAX to be printed.
Q. Do you also utilize the IBM PC to send
data anywhere?
A. To be printed.
Q. Do any of the data bases you work with
track storm water discharge permitting?
A. The regulatory data base contains a small
amount of technical data relating to the allowable
discharge as per the contents, the specifications
** 23
of the permits, that's the only one.
Q. Do any of the data bases you have worked
with contain water allocation information?
A. The regulatory data base contains the
permitted allocation for the water use permits.
Q. You have mentioned that some of these data
bases contain or monitor information received from
permittees. How is that information put into the
computer?
A. It's entered.
Q. By?
A. A data entry technician, I assume.
Q. Do you oversee the entry of data?
A. No, no.
Q. Are the data bases you worked with backed
up in any fashion?
A. Yes, they are.
Q. By whom?
A. This is a responsibility that technical
services is taking care of. We only set up the
procedures and ask them what they want, and then,
they do it, so you would have to talk to them on
the particulars of that.
Q. Did you set up the schedule for the
back-ups?
** 24
A. Yes.
Q. What is the schedule?
A. Nightly and weekly.
Q. Into what medium are the back-ups done?
A. A tape and disk. You would have to check
with them on that.
Q. Do you know what the retention period is
for the back-ups?
MS. STOLLMAN: I don't want you to
speculate, if you don't know.
A. I've forgotten, because we set that up
some time ago, and right now I -- the best thing,
in that area, would be to talk to tech services;
and they would tell you exactly what their
procedures are.
Q. Is there any where in writing where the
procedures for doing back-up exist?
A. Not in our department.
Q. Were you asked to compile a list of files
you have on computer for this litigation?
A. No.
MS. NASH: I have no further
questions.
MS. STOLLMAN: Would you like to take
a break before we continue? There is another
** 25
attorney here who will ask you questions.
THE WITNESS: No, I am fine.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
QUESTION BY MR. RICHARDS:
Q. Ms. Leavitt, my name is Joe Richards. I
represent the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston.
Is it correct to say that the regulatory
data base contains all the surface water
management permits issued by the district?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. And it also contains all the discharge
permits issued by the district?
A. Surface water management permits and
discharge permits.
Q. Any other types of permits contained in
this data?
A. Water use.
Q. Any others?
A. That's it. Those are the only two types
that the department issues.
Q. Do you know how far back the information
in this regulatory data base dates back?
A. A guess is 1972.
** 26
Q. Is there someone else who would know that
for sure?
A. The people in the department that are
doing the input would be able to trace that.
Q. Who are those individuals that do the
input?
A. I think if -- someone, like, Beth
Colavecchio would be able to tell you how far the
data goes.
Q. Do you know whether any of this
information was generated for the Everglades SWIM
Plan, provided to the authors?
A. No.
Q. You don't know?
A. No, I don't know.
Q. Do you know whether your department has a
listing of all the permits issued to the Water
Management District by other agencies?
A. Could you ask the question again?
Q. Do you know whether your department has a
listing of all the permits issued to the Water
Management District by other agencies?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know who would know that?
A. I have no idea.
** 27
Q. Are you aware of the loss of any data from
the regulatory data base, accidental loss?
MS. STOLLMAN: You have to answer out
loud.
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. (By Mr. Richards) How about from the
water use well monitoring data base?
A. Not that I know.
Q. And from the natural resource water
quality data base?
A. No, not that I know.
Q. Do you know who preceded you as the data
base manager in the regulation department?
A. Excuse me?
Q. Do you know who preceded you as data base
manager in the regulation department?
A. It was a new position.
Q. Do you know who had those responsibilities
prior to your --
A. There was no one.
Q. There was no data base?
A. No.
MR. RICHARDS: I have no further
questions. Thank you.
** 28
(The deposition was concluded at
11:15 o'clock a.m.)
