** 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al., ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) VS. ) ) SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT ) DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, ) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA ) WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; ) FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL ) REGULATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, ) SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ) ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et. al., ) ) Defendants. ) / DEPOSITION OF MARIE-CHRISTINE LEAVITT TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF *** DATE: August 27, 1990 PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICE Commerce Center 324 Datura Street, Suite 303 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 (407) 659-4046 ** 2 INDEX August 27, 1990 DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS MARIE-CHRISTINE LEAVITT By Ms. Beverly Nash 5 By Mr. Joe Richards 25 ** 3 The deposition of Marie-Christine Leavitt, in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before me, KAREN BAUER FRY, C.S.R., Court Reporter and Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, at Professional Reporting Service, Commerce Center, 324 Datura Street, in the City of West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, in the State of Florida, beginning at the hour of 10:30 o'clock a.m., on August 27, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said cause for the taking of said deposition, which is annexed to the Court file herein, on behalf of the Plaintiff in the above-entitled action pending in the above-named court. The appearances at said time and place were as follows: Beverly Sherman Nash, Esquire U.S. Department of Justice Environmental and Natural Resources Division P. O. Box 663 Washington, D.C. 20044-0663 Attorney for Plaintiff Joseph Richards, Esquire Peeples, Earl & Blank, P.A. Two South Biscayne Blvd. One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636 Miami, Florida 33131 Attorney for cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston ** 4 Katharine Stollman, Esquire Allison Burdette Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom 1440 New York Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 Attorney for South Florida Water Management District Jackie Waters, Esquire So. Florida Water Management District Box 24680 3301 Gun Club Road West Palm Beach, FL 33416 ALSO PRESENT: Toni Lafuente Mike Rose David Buker ** 5 THEREUPON, MARIE-CHRISTINE LEAVITT being by me first duly sworn to tell the whole truth, as hereinafter certified, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. NASH: Q. Please state your name? A. Marie-Christine Leavitt. Q. Ms. Leavitt, my name is Beverly Nash, and I'm counsel for the United States in this litigation. We're here in this deposition to find out about the Water Management District's computers, what information is on the computers, and how it can be accessed. You're here today as a representative of the district having a knowledge in one or more of the areas in which we're interested. Have you been shown the list of categories? A. Yes, I have. Q. And which ones are you here on? A. I think I need to look at the list for a second, and I can tell you. ** 6 Okay. I would say in No. 2, No. 3, and No. 6, and I may know some things about other areas, but I don't work directly with them. Q. What is your present title or position? A. I'm data base manager in the regulation department. Q. What is your job description? A. I design and manage data base application systems for the regulation department. Q. And how long have you been in that role? A. Two years. Q. Have you had other positions with the Water Management District? A. No. Q. What is your educational background? A. I have two bachelors, not in computer science. Then, I went back to school and I have about 60 or 70 credit hours in computer science only. My first bachelor was in languages and linguistics from the University of Provence in France. My second bachelor was in humanities and communications from FAU. The rest of my education in computer science has been at FAU and Palm Beach Junior ** 7 College, and a lot of professional classes as well. Q. Who is your supervisor? A. Ann Roth. Q. And what is her title? A. She's the director of the Regulatory Administration. Q. Are there any Water Management District employees that work for you? A. Yes, one data base analyst. His name is Dean Corry. I supervise a lot of contract people on a temporary basis, short-term assignment. Q. What is the nature of the work that these contract people do? A. Programming, coding. Q. What computers do you use at the Water Management District? A. The areas of development we do is on the Oracle Relational Data Base Management System, on the VAX 8820 mainframe, that's the bulk of the development that we do the work on. Q. What is the nature of the work that you do on the VAX 8820? A. Design data base application systems for use in the regulation department. ** 8 Q. Can you give me specifics on some of the data base application systems you have designed? A. Permit application tracking system. We have a regulatory data base, water use well monitoring system. We have converted series of old ones that we're in the process of redesigning, which aren't that important. There's a natural resource management water quality data base. We put together a prototype for permitting the works of the district. The bulk of the work, at this point, is in development only. The ones I've listed are in production, which means there is actually data in those systems. Q. On the permit application tracking system, what is the source of the data in that system? A. Surface water management applications for permits and water use. Water use is water consumption. Surface water management is the discharge of water. This is for the entire district. Q. And does that permit application tracking system have a name? ** 9 A. That's what it's called. Q. And this is on the VAX 8820? A. Correct. Q. And you mentioned a regulatory data base. A. We've converted the old regulatory -- MS. STOLLMAN: Do you have a question with respect to the regulatory data base? MS. NASH: Yes. Q. (By Ms. Nash) What is that data base and what is its function? MS. STOLLMAN: What is the data base; is that your question? MS. NASH: Yes. A. It contains administrative and technical data on permits, surface water management and water use permits, issued by the regulation department. Q. (By Ms. Nash) And you mentioned a water use well monitoring system? A. Yes. Q. What is the source of the data in that data base? A. The source of the data is the monitoring that is received from the permittees as a result of the special conditions in the permits. ** 10 Q. And what is the purpose of this water use well monitoring system? A. It tracks the amount of water that is pumped out of the aquifers from permitted wells, the water quality, along the saltwater intrusion line, for permitted wells, again, only. Q. You also mentioned a natural resource management water quality data base, what is the purpose of that data base? MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to the questions on purpose except to the extent it will enable you to locate where they are on the computer system? A. What is the purpose of the application? Q. (By Ms. Nash) Yes. A. To track the data that is submitted by surface water management permittees as a result of the special condition on their permits. Q. And the source of the data in that natural resource management water quality data base is what? A. The water quality analysis submitted by the permittees. Q. If someone from outside the Water Management District wanted to access any of these data bases, how would they do that? ** 11 MS. STOLLMAN: Which system are you referring to? MS. NASH: Let's start with the permit application tracking system. MS. STOLLMAN: I don't believe we've established that outside access is possible. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is outside access possible to the permit application tracking system? A. It is not possible at this point. If it could be done, programs and procedure for that have to be set up to give access, but no decision has been made at this point for any of those data bases to be accessed to the outside. Q. Is the permit application tracking system accessed by others outside the regulation division within the Water Management District? A. No. Q. The regulatory data base you mentioned, is that accessed by others outside the division within the Water Management District? A. Could you -- okay. No, the data base is not accessed outside of the department. Q. Is the information from the data base provided to others outside the department? MS. STOLLMAN: Are you talking about ** 12 transmitted on the computer? MS. NASH: Within the Water Management District. MS. STOLLMAN: Is your question limited to what information is transmitted by computer? MS. NASH: Not necessarily. If there is hard copy analyses of the information, we're entitled to know that also. MS. STOLLMAN: A hard copy analyses generated off the computer system in the regulation department? MS. NASH: Yes. A. Yes, it is available. Q. (By Ms. Nash) In what format? A. Reports. Q. What is the nature of the reports? A. Could you rephrase that? Q. Yes. Describe the subject matter, content, nature of the reports? A. Regulatory data, administrative and technical data pertaining to surface water management and water use permits. Q. Are there regular reports that are prepared? ** 13 A. I'm sorry. Q. Are there reports prepared on a regular basis? A. If requested, they are. Q. Are any reports requested on a regular basis on the regulatory data base? A. Yes. Q. What are those reports? A. A report listing the technical data contained on surface water management and water use permits. Q. And who within the Water Management District requests these regular reports? A. I don't have that information. I don't generate the report. Q. Who generates the reports? A. The data -- the request for the data, hard copy data, does not go through me. I only put together the tools for the reports to be generated. Q. Do you know who gets the request for the reports? A. Beth Colavecchio in the regulatory administration division. Q. So Beth Colavecchio would be the one to know where the reports that are generated go then; ** 14 is that correct? A. I guess. You would have to ask her. I only know that she gets requests for regulatory data and fills those requests. Q. Do others outside your department access the water use well monitoring system data base? A. Yes. Other district departments access the data. Q. Which departments are those? A. I believe planning, research, and evaluation do. Q. And can you describe the procedure they would utilize to access that data? MS. STOLLMAN: Are you asking about the computer procedure? MS. NASH: Yes. MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you know. A. Yeah, I do know, because we have given them the option to instead of creating a report, of creating a file that they export of well monitoring data. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Does this file have a particular name? A. I'm sure, but I'd have to -- right now I ** 15 don't know. Q. Who would know? A. It's menu driven, so it's transparent to the user. Q. Is there a directory in which these file names exist? A. I don't believe so. They're, like, reports. Once they're created, they just get overlaid at the time -- the next time that another file is created. They're just temporary files. What happens after that, I can't tell you. You'd have to talk to the people who request that data. Q. What software do you utilize for the permit application tracking system? A. The software from Oracle relational data base. We use sequel form, sequel report, and sequel plus. Q. Do you use any different software for the regulatory data base? A. No. Q. What about the water use well monitoring system? A. We use the same software for most of the development on the VAX when -- in some cases, when needed, we also use C or Fortran, but the bulk of ** 16 the development is done with Oracle tools. Q. Do others in the Water Management District have access to the natural resource management water quality data base? A. I don't think so. I'm not sure, but I don't think so. Q. Do you know whether that data base would be accessible by entities outside the Water Management District? A. It's the same as the other data bases. No decision has been made for any of the data to be accessible to the outside, because of the obvious security and bug infiltration problems. At this point, it is not possible, no. Q. It's your testimony, then, that none of the data bases with which you work are presently accessible by entities outside the Water Management District? A. That's correct. Q. Does the permit application tracking system break down its information by location? A. Could you specify? I don't understand the question. I mean, I can't answer it unless you rephrase it or something. Q. Is there a way to access information in ** 17 the permit application tracking system by location of the permit? MS. STOLLMAN: Are you asking whether they're separate computer files for each permit? Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is there a way to access the data by location? A. Yes. Q. And how would that be done? A. By the nature of the software utilized, a relational data base allows you -- allows you to quarry by any one of its components. Q. Is that also true with the regulatory data base? A. Yes. Q. And the water use well monitoring system? A. As long as the elements that you're looking for are defined in the data base. Q. Is location and element defined in the water use well monitoring system data base? A. You need to rephrase that question. I can't answer it that way. Q. I guess, then, I will ask: What are the components or the elements that are defined in the water use well monitoring system data base? MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you ** 18 understand the question. A. Yeah, I do understand the question, but it's just -- I can't right this minute tell you every single element. There are different ways -- I mean, there are different -- there are a lot of data fields. I can't -- you have the permit number, the well number, the amount of pumpage, the date it was pumped, where the well is located; but there are many ways to locate a well. I'm not sure which fields are on there and which aren't. I would have to go and check. Right this minute, I can't sit down and say, these are all the fields. I may give you some which are not there and I may have forgotten some. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is there documentation or other written information that indicates what data fields are in the water use well monitoring system data base? A. We have some user documentation. Q. Does that user documentation have a name? A. It's water use well monitoring system user documentation, there's no other name. Q. Do you know what data fields are in the permit application tracking system? A. About 200. Yes, I do. There are 200 of ** 19 them. I don't -- Q. Is there a list or other documentation of what those data fields are? A. We do have user documentation as well for the tracking system. Q. Does that documentation have a name? A. It's no specific name, no. Q. Do you know what data fields are in the regulatory data base? A. Yes. Q. What are those data fields? A. It's the same thing. It's a long list. Right off the bat, I can't tell you which ones are and which ones aren't. Q. Is there any documentation that would list what data fields are in the regulatory data base? A. Yes, there is. Q. And what is that documentation called? A. It's just user documentation. Q. What other data fields are in the natural resource management water quality data base? A. All the data elements that we track for water quality and permit number and some generic information. Q. Are there reports that are generated on ** 20 this natural resource management water quality data base? A. Yes. Q. What's the nature of those reports? A. They contain the samples collected on the permitted wells. I mean, not on the permitted wells, on the permitted water quality sites, listing the different elements of analysis and their value. Q. Do you know to whom these reports go? A. No, I don't. Q. Do you know who might know? A. Buddy Robinson, and national resource management division writes the reports. Q. Are the reports generated on the permit application tracking system? A. Yes. Q. And what's the nature of those reports? A. They track the work flow and the schedule of applications throughout the department. Q. And to whom do those reports go? MS. STOLLMAN: When you ask, "to whom do those reports go," are you asking her to what computer system are they transferred? MS. NASH: No. I'm asking to whom ** 21 the reports go. MS. STOLLMAN: Are they transferred on the computer? THE WITNESS: The reports? MS. STOLLMAN: Yeah. THE WITNESS: No, they get printed. Q. (By Ms. Nash) And to whom do the reports go? A. The entire department. Q. You mentioned that the bulk of the work you're doing now is development? A. Uh-huh. Q. And what is the nature of the data base that's being developed? MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer this to the extent that you know. If something is in the early stages of development, I don't think it's a proper subject for this deposition. A. Yeah, because it's not going to be in production for a while. There's only going to be data, I think, associated with it for a while. Q. (By Ms. Nash) What is the general subject matter that the data base is being developed? MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to this whole line of questioning. If there is no data ** 22 involved with any of these speculative problems -- A. At this point, there is no data, so. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Do you utilize any of the microcomputers or personal computers in the Water Management District? A. Yes, I do. Q. Which ones? A. The personal computers. Q. Which ones? A. Just -- I utilize my PC and -- Q. Which PC? A. Do you want the -- Q. I want the model number and name. A. It's an IBM personal computer. Q. And what work do you do on the IBM PC? A. Word Perfect, Symphony. I use it as a gateway to move data from the VAX to be printed. Q. Do you also utilize the IBM PC to send data anywhere? A. To be printed. Q. Do any of the data bases you work with track storm water discharge permitting? A. The regulatory data base contains a small amount of technical data relating to the allowable discharge as per the contents, the specifications ** 23 of the permits, that's the only one. Q. Do any of the data bases you have worked with contain water allocation information? A. The regulatory data base contains the permitted allocation for the water use permits. Q. You have mentioned that some of these data bases contain or monitor information received from permittees. How is that information put into the computer? A. It's entered. Q. By? A. A data entry technician, I assume. Q. Do you oversee the entry of data? A. No, no. Q. Are the data bases you worked with backed up in any fashion? A. Yes, they are. Q. By whom? A. This is a responsibility that technical services is taking care of. We only set up the procedures and ask them what they want, and then, they do it, so you would have to talk to them on the particulars of that. Q. Did you set up the schedule for the back-ups? ** 24 A. Yes. Q. What is the schedule? A. Nightly and weekly. Q. Into what medium are the back-ups done? A. A tape and disk. You would have to check with them on that. Q. Do you know what the retention period is for the back-ups? MS. STOLLMAN: I don't want you to speculate, if you don't know. A. I've forgotten, because we set that up some time ago, and right now I -- the best thing, in that area, would be to talk to tech services; and they would tell you exactly what their procedures are. Q. Is there any where in writing where the procedures for doing back-up exist? A. Not in our department. Q. Were you asked to compile a list of files you have on computer for this litigation? A. No. MS. NASH: I have no further questions. MS. STOLLMAN: Would you like to take a break before we continue? There is another ** 25 attorney here who will ask you questions. THE WITNESS: No, I am fine. CROSS-EXAMINATION QUESTION BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Ms. Leavitt, my name is Joe Richards. I represent the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. Is it correct to say that the regulatory data base contains all the surface water management permits issued by the district? A. Yes, it is. Q. And it also contains all the discharge permits issued by the district? A. Surface water management permits and discharge permits. Q. Any other types of permits contained in this data? A. Water use. Q. Any others? A. That's it. Those are the only two types that the department issues. Q. Do you know how far back the information in this regulatory data base dates back? A. A guess is 1972. ** 26 Q. Is there someone else who would know that for sure? A. The people in the department that are doing the input would be able to trace that. Q. Who are those individuals that do the input? A. I think if -- someone, like, Beth Colavecchio would be able to tell you how far the data goes. Q. Do you know whether any of this information was generated for the Everglades SWIM Plan, provided to the authors? A. No. Q. You don't know? A. No, I don't know. Q. Do you know whether your department has a listing of all the permits issued to the Water Management District by other agencies? A. Could you ask the question again? Q. Do you know whether your department has a listing of all the permits issued to the Water Management District by other agencies? A. I don't know. Q. Do you know who would know that? A. I have no idea. ** 27 Q. Are you aware of the loss of any data from the regulatory data base, accidental loss? MS. STOLLMAN: You have to answer out loud. A. Not that I'm aware of. Q. (By Mr. Richards) How about from the water use well monitoring data base? A. Not that I know. Q. And from the natural resource water quality data base? A. No, not that I know. Q. Do you know who preceded you as the data base manager in the regulation department? A. Excuse me? Q. Do you know who preceded you as data base manager in the regulation department? A. It was a new position. Q. Do you know who had those responsibilities prior to your -- A. There was no one. Q. There was no data base? A. No. MR. RICHARDS: I have no further questions. Thank you. ** 28 (The deposition was concluded at 11:15 o'clock a.m.)