** 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al., ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) VS. ) ) SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT ) DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, ) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA ) WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; ) FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL ) REGULATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, ) SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ) ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et. al., ) ) Defendants. ) / DEPOSITION OF DION GLUCK TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF *** DATE: August 29, 1990 PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICE Commerce Center 324 Datura Street, Suite 303 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 (407) 659-4046 ** 2 INDEX August 29, 1990 DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS DION GLUCK By Ms. Beverly Nash 5 By Mr. Joe Richards 16 ** 3 The deposition of Dion Gluck, in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before me, KAREN BAUER FRY, C.S.R., Court Reporter and Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, at Professional Reporting Service, Commerce Center, 324 Datura Street, in the City of West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, in the State of Florida, beginning at the hour of 3:30 o'clock p.m., on August 29, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said cause for the taking of said deposition, which is annexed to the Court file herein, on behalf of the Plaintiff in the above-entitled action pending in the above-named court. The appearances at said time and place were as follows: Beverly Sherman Nash, Esquire U.S. Department of Justice Environmental and Natural Resources Division P. O. Box 663 Washington, D.C. 20044-0663 Attorney for Plaintiff Joseph Richards, Esquire Peeples, Earl & Blank, P.A. Two South Biscayne Blvd. One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636 Miami, Florida 33131 Attorney for Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston ** 4 Katharine Stollman, Esquire Allison Burdette Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom 1440 New York Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 Attorney for South Florida Water Management District Jackie Waters, Esquire So. Florida Water Management District Box 24680 3301 Gun Club Road West Palm Beach, FL 33416 ALSO PRESENT: Toni Lafuente Mike Rose David Buker Ray Roberts Bob Johnson ** 5 THEREUPON, DION GLUCK being by me first duly sworn to tell the whole truth, as hereinafter certified, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. NASH: Q. Mr. Gluck, I'm Beverly Nash, I'm counsel for you the United States in this litigation. We're here to find out what information the Water Management District has on its computers, what computers it utilizes, how the data is formatted and generally about the workings of the Water Management District's computers. You've been selected as a representative of the Water Management District having knowledge of one or more of the categories that we've inquired about. Do you know to which categories you're responsive? A. I believe it was 1, 2 and 6. Q. What is your present title or position? A. I'm a staff director in the department of technical services. Q. And what are your job responsibilities as ** 6 staff director? A. I assist in the management of the department and act as the department head in his absence. Q. Who is the department head? A. John Lynch. Q. And how long have you been enrolled as staff director? A. I have been a staff director for about a year? Q. Have you had positions prior to that? A. Yes, I have. Q. What position? A. I was a senior staff analyst and assistant to the director. Q. Were these positions also in tech services? A. Yes. Q. And what were your job responsibilities as senior staff analyst? A. They were similar. My progression has added duties and responsibilities in a management form over time. Q. How long were you senior staff analyst? A. Approximately a year and a half to two ** 7 years. Q. And how long were you assistant to the director? A. Approximately a year to a year and a half. I'm not sure of that. I started March 31st, 1986. Q. And what's your educational background? A. I have a BS in business administration. Q. Are there employees in tech services that work for you? A. They all do. Q. How many employees is that? A. I believe it's approximately 58. Q. What computers are utilized in tech services? A. Could you clarify that question a bit? Utilized by the personnel themselves? Q. Yes. A. I believe all of them are. Q. All of the computers in the Water Management District are utilized there? A. Well, personnel under me would have knowledge of them all. Q. I'm trying to find out what specific computers are utilized by personnel in tech ** 8 services? A. Well, being we provide the services for the computers to all departments, we are familiar with all the systems that exist at the district. Q. Are there some computers that are specifically utilized by the personnel in tech services? A. No more specifically than others. Q. What work is done by the personnel in tech services on the IBM mainframe? A. Specifically it would be financial systems. Q. And who in tech services does the financial? A. George Scholl would be responsible for the systems. There are a number of applications analyst that are under George that would be working with that system. Q. And what work is done by personnel in tech services on the Cyber? A. I believe it would be on a systems operation type thing. It wouldn't be actual applications. Q. Explain what you mean by "systems operation"? ** 9 A. Maintenance of the system in order to provide the service of the computer, the availability of the computer to run the modelling, et cetera. Q. But there is no modelling actually run by tech services' personnel? A. No, not to my knowledge. Q. And who in tech services maintains the Cyber? A. At this time, I believe, it's Steve MacNeil. Q. What work is done by the personnel in tech services on the VAX 8820? A. I believe it's support of the Oracle data bases is its primary function. Q. And who in tech services? A. Again, a number of individuals. Q. Is there one person primarily in charge? A. I believe they share duties and back each other up. Q. How many people are we talking about? A. Primarily two. Q. What are their names? A. David Sweet and Connie Falls. Q. And what work is done in tech services on ** 10 the VAX 6310? A. Again, I believe it's the same type of work as the other one and the same people involved. Q. And what work is done on the Perkin Elmer? A. To my knowledge, that would be a laboratory information system. Q. And what work is done by personnel in tech services on that machine? A. Again, I don't believe the work is done by us. We just provide the support. Q. And what work is done by personnel in tech services on the Computer Vision in the computer? A. Primarily mapping. Q. And who in tech services does the mapping on the Computer Vision? A. A number of GIS CADD techs. Q. These are personnel within tech services? A. That's correct. Q. What are their names? A. Jimmy Kramp, Theresa McRorie, Nancy Lin, Cecilia Conrad, and Judy Canada. Q. What is the nature of the mapping work they do on the Computer Vision? A. I'm not familiar enough to answer that question. ** 11 Q. Who would know? A. Any number of the people I just mentioned. Q. What work is done by tech services' personnel on the Micro VAX 2 mini computers? A. I'm not exactly sure. Q. Who would know? A. Bill Hall. Q. What work is done by personnel in tech services on the Modcomp? A. I don't believe any. Q. Which microcomputers are utilized by personnel in tech services? A. IBM PCs, compacts, and Toshiba portables. Q. What's the nature of the work done on the IBM PC? A. Varied. Q. Give me some examples? A. Symphony, Harvard Presentation Graphics. Q. For what purpose is Symphony used? A. Spreadsheet applications. Q. For what purpose does tech services do spreadsheet applications? A. Again, that's very varied. Q. Give me some examples? A. Budgeting. ** 12 Q. What work is done by personnel in tech services on the compacts? A. Basically they're used in lieu of PCs when they're not available and for loan out, and we are in charge of the loan out procedure. Q. And what work is done by personnel in tech services on the Toshiba? A. Again, the same type deal as the compacts. Q. Does tech services' personnel do any work on the SUN work station? A. We administrate and support those work stations. Q. Does tech services' personnel do any work on the DEC work stations? A. We administrate and support those stations, also. Q. Explain what you mean by supporting the work stations? A. I would say it would be systems administrative type tasks, file availability, or storage availability, that kind of thing. Q. Does tech services provide technical support for the I square S hardware in environmental sciences? A. To my knowledge, no. ** 13 Q. Who would know? A. Bill Hall would know specifically. Q. Is there a listing of which you're aware of the computer files created or utilized by environmental sciences? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Who would know? A. Dewey Worth. Q. Is there a listing of computer files created or utilized by the regulation department? A. I have no idea. Q. Who would no? A. Someone in the regulation department. Q. Is there a listing of the computer files created or utilized by the water supply planning division? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Who would know? A. Someone in that division. Q. Is there a listing of computer files created or utilized by the water quality division? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Who would know? A. Someone in that division. Q. Is there a listing of the computer files ** 14 created or utilized by the planning department? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Who would know? A. Someone in planning. Q. Is there a listing of the computer files created or utilized by the personnel in water resources division? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Who would know? A. Someone in that division. Q. Is there a listing of the computer files created or utilized by the personnel in the research and evaluation department? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Who would know? A. Someone in that department. Q. Is there a listing of the computer files created or utilized by personnel in the geographic sciences division? A. I don't believe to my knowledge there is a list that exists. Q. Who would know? A. Bob Brown in that case. Q. Are you aware of the procedures for backing up files created by the other divisions? ** 15 A. Not by the other divisions, no. Q. What back-up procedures are you aware of? A. I'm aware they exist in technical services for the systems we support. Q. For which systems do you support that you do back-up procedures on? A. I believe there's back-up procedures for the IBM, the DEC systems, the Cyber system, and the PC servers. Q. Who is familiar with the back-up procedures for the Cyber? A. Bill Hall. Q. Who is familiar with the back-up procedures for the DEC? A. Bill Hall. Q. Who is familiar with the back-up procedures for the PC servers? A. Bill Hall. Q. Are you familiar with the procedures by which files are transferred between divisions or departments in the Water Management District? MS. STOLLMAN: This would be transferred on the computers systems? MS. NASH: Yes. A. I'm only aware of the transfer of files ** 16 over the PC servers or the Xerox servers. Q. (By Ms. Nash) And how does that transfer occur? A. In my knowledge, it would be through menu systems or icons, which make the actual workings transparent to the user. Q. Does tech services have any involvement in those transfers? A. I believe tech services' involvement would be probably setting up the menus and the icons in order to make it user friendly. Q. And who in tech services would do that? A. It would probably be the PC technicians or other individuals working for Bill Hall. MS. NASH: I have nothing further. CROSS-EXAMINATION QUESTION BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Mr. Gluck, my name is Joe Richards. I represent the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. For the systems backed up by tech services, are you knowledgeable as to the periods of time that these back-ups are maintained? A. Not for sure. Q. Are you aware of any written policies or ** 17 guidelines for quality control and quality assurances of computer data bases? A. To my knowledge, such a policy doesn't exist. Q. Are you aware of any data files that have been accidentally lost by the district? A. Not to my knowledge. MR. RICHARDS: I have nothing further. Thank you. (Short break.) MS. STOLLMAN: I just want to put on the record that the witnesses identified in response to the United States' 30(b)(6) notice have been produced and have been questioned by both the United States and the attorney for the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston, and that the 30(b)(6) deposition is now concluded. MS. NASH: We will disagree that the 30(b)(6) deposition is concluded, because we will be making a motion to compel, because of the large number of areas to which nobody was knowledgeable; and we'll also be moving for sanctions and costs, because of the large number of totally ** 18 nonresponsive people that were submitted, so that the 30(b)(6) deposition is not concluded. MS. STOLLMAN: Well, it's the district's position that it produced witnesses who were responsive to each and every one of the areas, as was indicated on Laura Ahern's letter of August 6th, to Beverly Nash. In fact, many of the witnesses testified on more areas than those for which they were identified in that letter. The district produced a large number of witness in order to respond to the broad nature of the 30(b)(6) notice. It is the district's position that at this time each of the witnesses has testified, and the deposition has concluded. MR. RICHARDS: It's the position of the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston that over the course of this deposition, numerous people were identified to have more knowledge than the people proffered, and it is obvious that several of the individuals produced were not responsive to the United States' subpoena. (The deposition was concluded at 3:50 o'clock p.m.)