** 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al., ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) VS. ) ) SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT ) DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, ) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA ) WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; ) FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL ) REGULATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, ) SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ) ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et. al., ) ) Defendants. ) / DEPOSITION OF TOM FONTAINE TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF *** DATE: August 28, 1990 PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICE Commerce Center 324 Datura Street, Suite 303 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 (407) 659-4046 ** 2 INDEX August 28, 1990 DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS TOM FONTAINE By Ms. Beverly Nash 5 By Mr. Joe Richards 42 ** 3 The deposition of Tom Fontaine, in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before me, KAREN BAUER FRY, C.S.R., Court Reporter and Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, at Professional Reporting Service, Commerce Center, 324 Datura Street, in the City of West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, in the State of Florida, beginning at the hour of 1:35 o'clock p.m., on August 28, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said cause for the taking of said deposition, which is annexed to the Court file herein, on behalf of the Plaintiff in the above-entitled action pending in the above-named court. The appearances at said time and place were as follows: Beverly Sherman Nash, Esquire U.S. Department of Justice Environmental and Natural Resources Division P. O. Box 663 Washington, D.C. 20044-0663 Attorney for Plaintiff Joseph Richards, Esquire Peeples, Earl & Blank, P.A. Two South Biscayne Blvd. One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636 Miami, Florida 33131 Attorney for Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston ** 4 Katharine Stollman, Esquire Allison Burdette Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom 1440 New York Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 Attorney for South Florida Water Management District Jackie Waters, Esquire So. Florida Water Management District Box 24680 3301 Gun Club Road West Palm Beach, FL 33416 ALSO PRESENT: Toni Lafuente Mike Rose David Buker Ray Roberts ** 5 THEREUPON, TOM FONTAINE being by me first duly sworn to tell the whole truth, as hereinafter certified, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. NASH: Q. Mr. Fontaine, I'm Beverly Nash. I'm counsel for the United States in this litigation. We're here to try and find out what computer systems the Water Management District has, how they operate, and how they're used, and the data on it, how that data is formatted. You're here as a representative of the Water Management District having knowledge on one or more of the 9 categories in which we're interested in getting information. Have you been shown that list of categories? A. Yes, I have. Q. And to which categories are you knowledgeable? A. No. 8, would be my best. Q. What is your title or position? ** 6 A. It's director of water quality division, department of research and evaluation. Q. And what are your responsibilities as director of water quality division? A. I oversee the collection of water quality data and its analysis. Q. And how long have you been the director? A. For approximately six months. Q. Have you had other positions at the Water Management District? A. No. Q. What is your educational background? A. Going in reverse: I got a Ph.D. in environmental engineering sciences, that was in 1978. You can tell me how far you want to go back, if you can. Masters of Science, environmental engineering sciences, 1974. Bachelors in Biology, 1972. Q. What was your position prior to being director of the water quality division at the Water Management District? A. I was at the Great Lakes Environmental Research Lab in Ann Arbor, Michigan, that's the NOAAL, National Oceanic and Atmospheric ** 7 Administration Laboratory. Q. To whom do you report in the department of research and evaluation? A. To two people. Pete Rose and Leslie Wedderburn. Q. And what is Pete Rose's position? A. He is the director of the department of research and evaluation. Q. And Leslie Wedderburn's position as well? A. She's the deputy director of the same department. Q. And how many employees work for you in the water quality division? A. Twenty-eight. Q. Can they be categorized in to types of positions? A. Yes. Q. And what would those types be? A. They range from technicians to senior professionals with varying degrees in between. Q. What computers are utilized by the water quality division? A. This is all employees? Q. Yes. A. There are a number of IBM PS/2s. There are ** 8 some SUN work stations. I have a Macintosh. Q. What work is done on the IBM PS/2? A. As far as I know, it's mostly word processing. There is, I'm sure, some statistical analysis. Without elaborating too much, you know, I think it's fair to say I don't know all of the details of all the computer work, having been here only six months. Q. I understand that. Do you what software packages are utilized on the IBM PS/2s? A. Word Perfect for word processing. For statistical analysis, I believe SAS is either on the IBMs or it accesses one of the other computers, but it may be run from the IBM. Q. And what is the nature of the work done on the SUN work stations? A. I believe it's statistical analysis. Q. And what is the data base on which the statistical analysis is done? A. This would be the water quality data base that resides on something called, a LIMS, L-I-M-S, system. Q. In which computers is the LIMS system? A. The LIMS system, as I understand it, is something in the chemistry, water chemistry ** 9 division, and I believe it's on physically a Perkin Elmer. Q. Do you yourself do any work on the SUN work station? A. No. Q. Do you do any work with the water quality data base? A. Not directly, no. Q. You indicated that you personally use a Macintosh? A. I have a Macintosh, yes. Q. What work do you do on the Macintosh? A. Primarily, I have a management information system for my division which allows me to keep track of schedules, projects, priorities. Q. Do you have a list of all the projects that the water quality division is working on? A. Do I have a list of them? Q. Yes. A. Yes. MS. STOLLMAN: Are you referring to projects that are on the computer system? MS. NASH: Yes. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Where is that list maintained? ** 10 A. I don't have a physical paper list of anything on the computer systems. Maybe you can explain a little more exactly what you're looking for. Q. Is there a list on any computer of the projects that the division is doing? A. Yes. Q. Does that list have a name? A. It has a computer name, so if you will -- Q. What is that name? A. Well, there is more than one project, so let me give you an example. It would be something to the effect of "Project, and then a period, and then 707." Q. Is there a description anywhere of what the various projects that are named that way are, for example, list of what project 707 is and any other projects that you similarly have listed? A. There are documents put out every year by the department of research and evaluation that describe what goes on in those projects. Q. And is that list broken down by projects that the water quality division are doing? A. Uh-huh, yes. Q. You indicated that you oversee the ** 11 collection of water quality data. What is the source of that data? A. Can you define what you mean by, "the source"? Q. Where does the data come from that's being collected? A. Well, it comes from sampling of water. Q. Where are these water samples taken? A. At various locations in the district. Q. Is there a record or list of the water sampling locations? MS. STOLLMAN: I don't believe you've established that the samples are taken using any sort of a computer system. Are your questions limited to samples collected by the computer? MS. NASH: I'm looking at where the data is that is put into the computer, and that's what I'm trying to find out. MS. STOLLMAN: What is your question? MS. NASH: Can you read back the question? (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) ** 12 MS. STOLLMAN: You may answer it, if you know. A. Yes. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Where is that record? A. In various places. Q. Does the record have a name? A. No, not that I know of. Q. What are the various places where the record is maintained? A. Well, they're on, you know, paper, and they're in files. Q. If you wanted to know where all the sampling sites were, where would you go to find them? A. You're speaking of a file again, not the physical location. You could get them from my file. There is an older publication that's called something to the effect of, "Water Quality Sampling Network for the South Florida Water Management District," which was published approximately a year ago. Q. Is the information in that publication still current? A. No. ** 13 Q. Is there a record of which sampling sites have changed? A. Yes. Q. Where is that record? A. I would have that information or it is accessible at the district -- let's put it that way. Q. If someone from outside the Water Management District asked for that record, who would they ask? MS. STOLLMAN: Again, I would object to these questions. The witness has testified that he is responsive to Area No. 8, which is: "The locations (where prepared and where maintained) of all water budgets and nutrient budgets for the EAA, Water Conservation Areas, Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge, and Everglades National Park." To the extent that your questions are directed at identifying the locations of where those budgets are prepared and where they are maintained, I will permit him to answer; but these detailed questions on to other areas that are related to the water budgets, but not related to the locations, are inappropriate at this deposition, and I would instruct him not to ** 14 answer. MS. NASH: They are directly related to the locations. The locations are where the data is collected, and that's all I'm trying to figure out is how to find out the list of where the data is collected. MS. STOLLMAN: The locations, as I interpret it in this notice, are the locations on the computer of where they're prepared and where they are maintained. You may ask questions with respect to what computer systems these water budgets are prepared on, and which computer systems these water budgets are maintained on. We're not here to discuss detailed information about the water budgets and their specific content other than to the extent it is necessary to identify which computer files you are interested in. MS. NASH: Well, the only way to find out which computer files we're interested in is to find out what the data is that's going into the computer files, and that's all I'm trying to find out. MS. STOLLMAN: I will permit him to ** 15 answer questions directed towards general information which would be required to identify what computer files they're interested in. A. Let me -- MS. STOLLMAN: Is there a question pending? MS. NASH: Yes, there is. THE WITNESS: Can I hear it again? I'm sorry. We lost track of things. (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) MS. STOLLMAN: What record are you referring to? MS. NASH: The record of the changes from the publication on the water quality sampling network that he mentioned. MS. STOLLMAN: Again, I don't see that that's relevant to identify what water budget you want to request, where it's prepared, where it's maintained. MS. NASH: Well, I don't know that until I know -- MS. STOLLMAN: Well, we are not on a ** 16 fishing expedition here. I have given you some leeway to ask questions that are leading to: How would I identify what samples are taken and getting information that you can -- identifying where you could find that information, but we are not here to discuss -- MS. NASH: Well, we're not going to know whether we're interested in the data until we know where it comes from, and that's what I'm trying to find out is, just what the list is of where the data is collected, so we know whether we are interested in it or not. MS. STOLLMAN: Your question is: Where is the list of what data is collected? MS. NASH: That's correct, or the data sites. It's not a difficult question. MS. STOLLMAN: You may answer. A. Okay. The information on station location, as it exists now, I can supply you with. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Are you -- THE WITNESS: Can I point something out? MS. STOLLMAN: Did you want to ask me a question? THE WITNESS: It's just a point of ** 17 clarification on No. 8. MS. STOLLMAN: If there is no question pending, I don't want you to answer a question. THE WITNESS: Okay. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Did I just hear you say, Mr. Fontaine, that you know nothing about water budgets? A. It's not my field. Q. Do you know anything about nutrient budgets? A. The nutrient aspect is the part of Item 8 that I'm most familiar with. Q. Can you describe the nutrient budgets that have been done on the Everglades Agricultural Area? MS. STOLLMAN: Again, I would instruct you to answer this question to the extent that it's necessary to identify what the different nutrient budgets are in the computer system. A. In the computer system, there is no nutrient budget, okay? Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is data obtained from data bases on computers to do the nutrient budgets? A. Yes. ** 18 Q. What data is utilized to do -- well, let me back-up. Is there a nutrient budget that's been done -- budget or budgets that's been done on the EAA? A. I know of one. Q. And when was that done? A. This year. Exact date, I'm not sure. Q. Who did the nutrient budget on the EAA? A. My staff in cooperation with other district staff. Q. From what other divisions or departments? A. The same department, research and evaluation, water resources division. Q. What were the data files that were utilized to do the nutrient budget? A. Specific names of files? Q. Yes, sir. A. I have no idea. Q. Who would know? A. My staff. Q. Who on your staff? A. Dave Soballe. Q. Anyone else? A. Possibly Brad Jones. ** 19 Q. Are you aware of any nutrient budgets done on any of the Water Conservation Areas? A. No. Q. Are you aware of any nutrient budgets done on Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge? A. No. Q. Are you aware of any nutrient budgets done on the Everglades National Park? A. No. Q. Where are the results of the nutrient budget on the EAA? MS. STOLLMAN: This is, where are they stored? Are you asking him where are they stored or on what computer system? MS. NASH: I am asking him: Where are the results of the nutrient budget; and that is my question. MS. STOLLMAN: You may answer if you know. A. They definitely are on hard copy paper. In terms of computer files, I don't know the name. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Who would know? A. Excuse me, while I think this one through, because it's going to be on one computer system. My best guess is, it should be on my secretary's ** 20 computer. Q. And what is your secretary's name? A. Sandy Joseph. Q. And what computer would she have this on? A. It's a Xerox number -- I don't know. Q. Who did the nutrient budget analysis on the EAA? A. It was Dave Soballe and Brad Jones. Q. Are you aware of any water quality analyses that have been done within the Water Conservation Areas? A. Within the actual borders? Q. Of the Water Conservation Areas, yes. MS. STOLLMAN: And again, limited to done on the computer. A. I don't know. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Are you aware of any water quality analyses of water going into the Water Conservation Areas? A. Yes. Q. Who has done those analyses? MS. STOLLMAN: Again, these would be analyses performed on the computer systems. A. Analyses is different from inputting to a data table. I'm trying to get a sense of your -- ** 21 what you're looking for. MS. STOLLMAN: Could you clarify your question, please? Q. (By Ms. Nash) I'm looking for whether there have been analyses of any of the water quality data -- A. Uh-huh. Q. -- of water? MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer if you understand the term "analyses." A. Well, yeah, I mean statistical analyses of data is different from simply collecting data. Q. (By Ms. Nash) That's correct. A. So are we talking about amassing data in a file or are we talking about analyzing the data in the file? Q. I am talking about analyzing the data that's in the file. MS. STOLLMAN: Could you repeat the question, please? (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) A. I'm not sure I know who's done them. ** 22 Q. (By Ms. Nash) Who would know? A. Who would know? I think -- I think Pete Rose or Leslie Wedderburn, W-e-d-d-e-r-b-u-r-n. Q. Do you know what data bases were utilized to do the water quality analyses of the water going into the Water Conservation Areas? A. That would most certainly be either the LIMS that I have referred to earlier or something called the Britton-Lee, B-r-i-t-t-o-n dash L-e-e. Q. Do you know whether water quality data exists on any computers other than the LIMS or the Britton-Lee? A. Yes. Q. What are the computers? A. I believe it's an IBM something or other. Q. And where is this IBM computer that contains -- A. It's over in -- you know, the main B50 Building. Q. Do you know who inputs the other water quality data that would be on this IBM? A. It would be Dave Soballe. Q. Is there a difference between the water quality data on the IBM and that on the LIMS? A. When you say "difference," you're assuming ** 23 they're both on the same -- I mean, both data sets are on the same place, right? MS. STOLLMAN: You can ask her for clarification, if you don't understand the question. THE WITNESS: That's what I'm trying to get a feeling for. A. For there to be a difference, they have to be on the same disk, that has to be on both computers so -- Q. (By Ms. Nash) But what I'm trying to find out is, if the data in the data set that's on the IBM -- A. Uh-huh. Q. -- is different than the data that's on the data set in the LIMS? A. I would characterize it as in addition to the data on the IBMs, and it's in addition to what's on the LIMS. Q. What is the source of the water quality data on the IBM? A. This is data from Lake Okeechobee sampling. Q. Do I understand then that the water quality data on the LIMS does not contain Lake ** 24 Okeechobee samples? A. It will contain some, but not all. Q. Are there any other differences in the data bases? A. I don't really have the experience with these data bases yet to answer that question. Q. Who would know? A. I'm not sure who to direct you to on that one. Q. Are you aware of water quality analyses of water coming out of the Water Conservation Areas? A. Yes. Q. Who has done the water quality analyses of water coming out of the Water Conservation Areas? MS. STOLLMAN: Again, this would be water quality analyses on the computer. A. Okay. I had trouble with this question last time. Analyses? Those data are on the LIMS system -- Q. (By Ms. Nash) And as I understand -- A. -- and can be accessed by people interested in accessing that data. Q. Are you aware of people that have analyzed that data? A. Again, in my short tenure here, I don't ** 25 have any knowledge of people, during this six months, that have analyzed that data. Q. Are you aware of any analyses of the relationship of nutrients from the agricultural areas to structure discharges in the Water Conservation Areas? A. I'm sorry. MS. STOLLMAN: Could you repeat that question? (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) MS. STOLLMAN: You can ask for clarification, if you don't understand the question. A. Sure. Why don't you go ahead and clarify that, if you could, or give me a little more time to search my memory banks. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Why don't you take your time to think about it. A. The relationship between nutrients and discharge into the Water Conservation Areas? Q. Yes. A. From the agricultural areas? ** 26 Q. Yes. A. There are measurements of water quality concentrations in those discharges, yes. Q. Who has done these analyses? A. Okay. The person -- again, I'm having trouble with the word, "analyses." Let me just briefly say that there is a lot of data collected that has not, in my time, been analyzed in a way that I would call analyzing things. There is a person who collects it, who supervises the collection of it, Larry Grosser, that's entered into the data base. In terms of doing anything with that, analytically speaking, I'm not aware. Q. In what division is Mr. Grosser employed? A. He works for me. He's in the water quality division. He's a technician supervisor, and is not, for the record, responsible for analyses of any data. Q. Are you aware of any documentation of water quality standard violations? MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to that question and instruct the witness not to answer. I don't believe that's relevant to the locations ** 27 where prepared and where maintained of all water budgets and nutrients budgets for the areas listed here. MS. NASH: I'm entitled to know what information the water quality division has on its computers, and that's what I'm trying to find out. MS. STOLLMAN: I believe your question goes well beyond that, and you can repeat it for me. (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) MS. STOLLMAN: I don't understand your question. Could you clarify that for me, please? MS. NASH: Ask the witness if he understands the question. A. It's a very general question. Are you looking at some specific -- MS. STOLLMAN: I would instruct the witness not to answer unless you can clarify the question, because it seems to be asking different things. If you want to know what policies or guidelines there are with respect to ** 28 water budgets and other work done on those systems, that is one question. The end of your question seems to go into another area. If you could break that down for the witness, I would permit him to answer. MS. NASH: He is the director of the water quality division, and I am entitled to find out whether the water quality division or anyone else he's aware of has any documentation on computer, if it makes you happy, of water quality standard violations, and that is what I am inquiring into. MS. STOLLMAN: Well, I don't believe that's relevant to this area. MS. NASH: It is relevant to -- MS. STOLLMAN: You are entitled to ask about what he has on the computer systems and -- MS. NASH: That's what I'm trying to find out. MS. STOLLMAN: -- what each division has on the computer systems, and if there are computer guidelines with respect to the water budgets and nutrients budgets. With respect to water quality violations, that may -- I mean, if ** 29 that's something that he has listed on his computer system -- MS. NASH: And I'm entitled to find out, and that is what the question is. MS. STOLLMAN: Okay. If there are computer files which contain information on water quality violations, then, you're entitled to ask him if there are such files and where they are located. And you can answer the question. A. That's a good enough question? Q. (By Ms. Nash) Yes. If you can answer the question. A. Fine. As far as I know, there is no data sets out there that specifically say there are water quality violations in place A, B, or C. Q. Are you aware of any Water Management District guidelines for assessing water quality violations? MS. STOLLMAN: Again, I would object to this. "Assessing water quality violations," are not the subject of this deposition. MS. NASH: If the information is on computer, it most certainly is. MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer to the extent there may be guidelines on a computer ** 30 system. A. The answer is no. Q. (By Ms. Nash) The guidelines for utilizing the computer for doing water quality violation assessments? MS. STOLLMAN: What is your question. MS. NASH: That is my question. A. I kind of lost the sense of the question. Can we go back and do that one again? MS. NASH: Read back the question. (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) MS. STOLLMAN: Are you asking whether there are guidelines? MS. NASH: Yes. For utilizing the computer to do water quality violation assessments. MS. STOLLMAN: To the extent they may exist on the computer, you may answer. A. If I understood your question correctly, there are no guidelines on the computer. Q. (By Ms. Nash) My question was, whether there are guidelines which require the utilization of the computer to do water quality violation ** 31 assessments? A. I don't know. Q. Who would know? A. I'm not sure. Q. Are you aware of any GIS files that show the distribution of nutrients in the areas covered by the Water Management District? A. No. Q. Are you aware of any CADD files which show the distribution of nutrients in the areas covered by the Water Management District? A. "The distribution of nutrients"? Can you clarify that one? Q. The location in water samples of nutrients. MS. STOLLMAN: Were you asking for CADD files? MS. NASH: Yes. THE WITNESS: Uh-huh. A. Yes. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Where are those files located? A. I don't know what machine it's located on. Q. Do you know who has responsibility for those files? ** 32 A. I think the best way of answering this question -- MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer the question if you know. I don't want you to speculate if you don't know. THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. Sorry. A. I believe that Dera Muzyk would have the CADD files. Q. Are you aware of any CADD files that show the water quality in the areas covered by the Water Management District? A. I'm sorry. That sounds like the very same question. Q. The prior question related to nutrient conservations. This is asking for water quality in general? A. Yes. Q. And where are those files? A. Excuse me. Are these CADD files again? Q. Yes. A. I would try Dera Muzyk again. Q. Is she employed in the water quality division? A. Uh-huh, yes. Q. What is her title? ** 33 A. Her title is GIS CADD technician. I should -- MS. STOLLMAN: If there is no question pending, I don't want you to testify. THE WITNESS: Okay. Can I have a second with you? MS. STOLLMAN: Do you want to ask me a question? THE WITNESS: Sure. (WHEREUPON, there was a discussion held off the record.) MS. STOLLMAN: I think the witness had something to add to your question about the location of CADD files. A. Yeah, right. There is one other location where there is some CADD files that have nutrient concentrations. Q. (By Ms. Nash) And where is that? A. That is up in our Okeechobee Field Station Water Quality Office. Q. On the CADD files that you indicated Dera Muzyk would be most knowledgeable on, do you know what locations the water quality data is from? ** 34 A. Lake Okeechobee very definitely, and other locations I'm not sure. Q. Do you know whether there is any data in those CADD files from the Everglades National Park? A. I don't believe so. Q. Do you know whether there's any data from the Water Conservation Areas? A. I don't believe so. Q. Do you know whether there's any data from the Everglades Agricultural Area? A. Can I seek some clarification? MS. STOLLMAN: Would you clarify your question? MS. NASH: Do you have a -- what's the problem? MS. STOLLMAN: Is there a term that you don't understand? THE WITNESS Yeah. I'm having trouble with some of the terminology. MS. STOLLMAN: What terms don't you understand. I can ask her to define them. THE WITNESS: Oh, geez. MS. STOLLMAN: Could you repeat the question? THE WITNESS: I hate to make you ** 35 repeat it, but -- MS. STOLLMAN: Could you read it back? (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) A. In CADD files? Q. (By Ms. Nash) Yes. A. I don't know. Q. Who would know? A. My best guess is Dera Muzyk. Q. Do you know whether the water quality division is doing any data base development with the water quality data? MS. STOLLMAN: Could you explain what you mean by "data base development"? MS. NASH: If the witness understands the questions, he can answer it. MS. STOLLMAN: Do you understand the question? THE WITNESS: To the extent that the whole district is working on development of Oracle, a new data base, but I know nothing about Oracle itself. ** 36 Q. (By Ms. Nash) Other than the development of the Oracle data base, is the water quality division doing any other data base development with the water quality data? A. Nothing outside of the existing LIMS and Britton-Lee that I know of. Q. You indicated that there was also CADD files on water quality in the Okeechobee Field Station Office? A. Yes. Q. Who in that office has those CADD files? A. My best guess is Elaine Rankin, R-a-n-k-i-n. Q. Does the water quality division utilize any GIS files? A. I don't know of any that they use. Q. Does the water quality division utilize any aerial photographs? MS. STOLLMAN: Again, this would be in the computer system with respect to computer analyses or data? THE WITNESS: Not that I know of. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Does the water quality division utilize any satellite photography or imagery? ** 37 A. Not that I know of. Q. Does the water quality division utilize any vegetation mapping? A. Not that I know of. Q. Does the water quality division do any trend analysis? A. Trend analysis? MS. STOLLMAN: Again, this would be on the computer. A. Yes. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Can you describe the trend analyses that are being done? A. Yes. MS. STOLLMAN: You may describe them to the extent that it's necessary to identify the files contained in the computer. THE WITNESS: Sure. A. The trend analysis is on phosphorus volume weighted, annual average phosphorus concentrations entering Lake Okeechobee. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is the water quality division doing any trend analysis on phosphors for other locations, such as, the Water Conservation Areas? A. I don't know. ** 38 Q. Who would know? A. I think the best person to ask would be my predecessor. Q. And who was that? A. That's Tony Federico. Q. Is the water quality division doing any trend analyses on water going into the Everglades National Park? A. Again, I don't know. Q. And who would know? A. I would, again, refer you to Tony Federico. I'm sorry. Yes, the water quality division is doing some trend analyses on stuff -- on nutrients entering Everglades National Park. Q. And who is doing that trend analysis? A. George Shih. Q. Do you know the source of the data Mr. Shih is utilizing to do the trend analysis? A. I believe he is using data that we collect and other data from perhaps Everglades National Park and perhaps the Corps of Engineers. Q. Is Mr. Shih an employee of the water quality division? A. He is on loan to environmental planning from the water quality division. ** 39 Q. What is his title? A. Senior professional. Q. Are there any reports of the trend analyses Mr. Shih has been doing on the Everglades National Park? MS. STOLLMAN: Are you talking about reports that are on the computer system? MS. NASH: Or generated by the computer system. MS. STOLLMAN: To the extent that you know, you may answer. I don't want you to speculate about Mr. Shih work. A. I have seen no reports. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Do you know which computer Mr. Shih utilizes to do those trend analyses? A. No. Q. Do you know whether Mr. Shih has reached any interim or preliminary results on trend analyses in Everglades National Park? MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to asking in-depth questions about Mr. Shih's reports. MS. NASH: If he knows. MS. STOLLMAN: What is your question? Could you read it back for me, please? ** 40 (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to that question and instruct the witness not to answer. We are not here to discuss results of analyses. MS. NASH: We are entitled to know where the data is, what data exists, how we can access that data, and if there are preliminary or interim conclusions that have been reached using the computer data, we are entitled to know that they exist and how we can access them. MS. STOLLMAN: You are not entitled to know whether or not preliminary conclusions or results have been reached with respect to analyses done. We're here to discuss what information exists and where it is located -- MS. NASH: And that's what I'm trying to find out. MS. STOLLMAN: -- not what sort of -- MS. NASH: If these are in data files, we're entitled to know what files they're in, what analyses exist in those files, so we can access that information. That is the whole purpose of these depositions. That is the very core of ** 41 these depositions. This is the first substantive information that we might actually obtain from these depositions. MS. STOLLMAN: Well, it's my interpretation that we -- MS. NASH: Well, fine. He can answer the question if he knows the answer. If he doesn't, that's fine. MS. STOLLMAN: I have instructed him not to answer the question. MS. NASH: Well, we'll take that up with the Court, too. Q. (By Ms. Nash) Is anyone in the water quality division doing any work on the Everglades SWIM Plan? A. It is not our responsibility to do any of that work, although, we may be consulted. Q. Is anyone in the water quality division doing any work on the potential ONRW designation for Everglades National Park? MS. STOLLMAN: We haven't established whether or not the witness is familiar with that designation. MS. NASH: If he doesn't understand ** 42 the question, he can say-so. A. For my own edification, tell me what the ONRW stands for. Q. Outstanding -- I can't remember if it's national or natural resource water. MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer to the extent you know whether someone is still working on it on the computer system. I don't want you to speculate if you don't know. A. Well, I won't speculate then, I will just say no, or I don't know. MS. NASH: I have no further questions MS. STOLLMAN: Would you like to take a break before we continue? THE WITNESS: Sure. (Short break.) CROSS-EXAMINATION QUESTION BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. Mr. Fontaine, my name is Joe Richards. I represent the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. ** 43 In reference to the nutrient budget on the EAA, you mentioned there is a hard copy of this budget. Has this been published by the district? A. No. Q. Will it be published? A. Can you tell me what you mean by publication? Q. The district distributes technical publications, technical memoranda, official documents. A. I know of no plans to put out a technical publication at this time. Q. Do you know whether this nutrient budget is available to the public? A. I don't think that's for me to say, frankly. Q. Do you know the time frame covered by this budget? MS. STOLLMAN: Which budget are you referring to? MR. RICHARDS: The same budget we have been discussing. A. Let me think about that for a second. I believe that it covers approximately eight years. ** 44 Q. (By Mr. Richards) And the last year would be? Do you know? A. That's what I'm having trouble remembering. I guess I will just have to say I can't remember. Q. Okay. You mentioned that you were aware of water quality analysis of the water discharged to the Water Conservation Areas. Do you know the time frame for this thing? A. This is an ongoing sampling study that has -- you know, it was there when I got there. I'm not sure how many years back it goes. Q. You also mentioned the input of water quality data on an IBM computer. Do you know the ultimate destination of that data? MS. STOLLMAN: Could you clarify what you mean by "ultimate destination"? MR. RICHARDS: Do you understand the question? A. I'm a little confused myself. Q. (By Mr. Richards) Is it retained on this IBM computer or does it end up in another data base somewhere? A. My intent is that all water quality data will go on to the Oracle data base that the ** 45 district has or is working on. Q. Would that be the chemical analysis archive system? A. I'm not sure of chemical analysis system. I don't know that name. Q. Would it be on the Britton-Lee computer? A. Okay. Geez, I'm a little confused. Can we back-up an get that question again? (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) A. If I understand your question correctly, the chemical analysis system that you were referring to is not the Oracle system. Q. (By Mr. Richards) Where is the Oracle system located? A. I don't know. Q. Do you know what computer it's on? A. I don't really have that answer for you. Q. Do you know who is developing this Oracle data base? A. The entire district is and that would be under John Lynch, who is head of technical services. I am sure he could give you a better ** 46 answer. Q. Is there a name for this water quality data set that's going to end up on the Oracle data? A. I'm sure there will be, but it doesn't exist yet. We are in the process of converting to that. Q. When do you expect that process to be completed? A. Optimistically, one and a half years from this date. Q. This water quality data that's on the IBM presently, is that going to stay on that IBM until this process is complete? A. Yes. You know, barring unforeseen circumstances, like, a computer blowing up. Q. You mentioned measurements of concentration of nutrients entering the Water Conservation Areas, do you know how often these measurements are taken? A. They are either biweekly, that's once every two weeks, or once a month. Q. Does it depend on the perimeter or the -- MS. STOLLMAN: I would object to this line of questioning, again, getting into this level of detail. We are not here to ask them how they do ** 47 their sampling systems. We're here to find out what are the files contained on the computer and where are they located. MR. RICHARDS: This all goes to what data is contained on the computer. I just want to determine what perimeters are -- MS. STOLLMAN: Well, we're getting in to a level of analysis here which is not pertinent to the deposition. To the extent that you need to ask questions to identify the files that you are interested in, you may ask those questions. I'm not going to permit the witness to answer questions about how they determine different perimeters and how the sampling is conducted. MR. RICHARDS: I just want to know how often the sampling is conducted for the particular perimeters. MS. STOLLMAN: That's been asked and answered. MR. RICHARDS: He said, biweekly or monthly. I'm just trying to determine the difference between the two. MS. STOLLMAN: Your question asked what does it depend on and how do you determine where you make samples. And I'm not going to ** 48 permit the witness to answer a question to that level of detail. It is not required to identify what files are in the computers in his division and where they're located. Q. (By Mr. Richards) What perimeters are collected on a biweekly basis? MS. STOLLMAN: To the extent that this is necessary to identify different files which are located in your system, you may answer. A. Uh-huh. I need to clarify something here. The reason I said, "biweekly or monthly," is that I don't remember, okay? MS. STOLLMAN: Well, I don't want you to speculate on these questions, so if you don't know the answer -- THE WITNESS: Well, I'm not speculating. I'm just trying to clear up something here. MS. STOLLMAN: Okay. A. The issue is whether I remember whether things are done biweekly or monthly, and it's not as a function of what perimeters. Q. (By Mr. Richards) Okay. So who would know? A. Larry Grosser. Q. Now, this data that is collected, is it ** 49 entered on to the computer by your division? A. Can we be more specific on "this data"? Q. The measurements of nutrient concentrations, is your division responsible for the entry of this information on to the computer? A. No. Q. Do you know what division is responsible? A. It takes place in the chemistry lab -- or the chemistry division, sorry. Q. Is your division responsible for the input of any water quality data? A. I don't believe that there is anybody in our division that physically inputs the data into a computer. Q. You mentioned a trend analysis on phosphors, the volume weighing of annual averages for water entering Lake Okeechobee, do you know the time frames for these trend analysis? A. I believe that that started in 1973 and continues to the present. Q. And for trend analysis of the water entering Everglades National Park, do you know the time period for this? A. No. Q. Do you know what perimeters are being ** 50 analyzed for this ENP study? A. For the ENP study? MS. STOLLMAN: This, again, would be what perimeters are being analyzed on the computer, and you can answer with respect to what are the different files that exist on the computer system. A. Phosphorus, and there may be more, but I'm not aware of them. Q. (By Mr. Richards) You mentioned you weren't aware of any reports from this trend analysis. Do you expect any reports to be generated from this study? MS. STOLLMAN: I don't want you to speculate on that, if there are none or they're in preparation now. A. I don't know of any. Q. (By Mr. Richards) Are you aware of any work by your division on the Everglades Nutrient Removal Project? A. I'm sorry. I certainly collect a lot of water samples, but specifically for that purpose, I'm not sure I can answer. Q. Are you aware of any water quality work for the Holeyland Restoration Project? A. The Holeyland Restoration Project's goal is ** 51 to -- MS. STOLLMAN: Wait. You can answer the question if you can answer, but if you need some clarification -- A. Oh, okay. I know some nutrient concentration data has been taken. MS. STOLLMAN: The question relates to what work has been done on the computer. THE WITNESS: Uh-huh, right. A. I really don't want to speculate, so I'm going to say I don't really know. Q. (By Mr. Richards) You mentioned that you know of some nutrient concentration information for the Holeyland. Do you know who is performing this work? A. My understanding is that the majority of that work is done by environmental sciences division. Q. Do you know who within the environmental sciences division is responsible for that work? A. No. Q. You mentioned that the station location information contained in the water quality sampling network publication was out of date. Are you aware of a data base of water quality station ** 52 descriptions that is more complete than this document? MS. STOLLMAN: I believe that was asked and answered during Ms. Nash's questioning. A. I agree with what you said. MR. RICHARDS: What was the answer? MS. STOLLMAN: Well, it's been asked and answered. We could look back on the transcript. MR. RICHARDS: Can you answer the question again, please? MS. STOLLMAN: You may answer. A. Sure. Give me the question again. I'm sorry. (WHEREUPON, the requested testimony was read back by the court reporter.) A. Yes. Q. (By Mr. Richards) Could you please give me the name of that data base? A. I'd like to, but I can't. I don't know the name. Q. If I was to ask for that information, what would you give me? ** 53 A. I would give you, you know, a paper with station names and locations. Q. Do you possess that document? A. To the best of my knowledge, I do. Q. Is it in a computer format? A. I don't think it is. Q. Are you aware of whether there is any water quality data on the IBM computer that does not exist on the Britton-Lee computer? MS. STOLLMAN: That's been asked and answered in the earlier questioning by Ms. Nash. MS. NASH: No, it was not. MR. RICHARDS: I don't believe it has. A. My understanding is that there is some data that presides on the IBM computer that is not on the Britton-Lee. Q. (By Mr. Richards) And for what location is that data on the IBM computer that is not on the Britton-Lee? MS. STOLLMAN: Again, that has been asked and answered. You may answer again. A. It was Lake Okeechobee data. Q. (By Mr. Richards) For all discharge points or interior of the lake or what? ** 54 A. Interior of the lake. Q. Are you aware of any data files that have been accidentally lost? A. No. MR. RICHARDS: I have no further questions. Thank you. (The deposition was concluded at 3:07 o'clock p.m.)